--- In [email protected], Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jul 21, 2006, at 10:48 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Jul 21, 2006, at 8:40 PM, Vaj wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> On Jul 21, 2006, at 7:29 PM, authfriend wrote: > >>> > >>>> --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajranatha@> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Jul 21, 2006, at 3:30 PM, Paul Mason wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> I've never heard anything other than that. I never > >>>>>>> heard that Guru Dev himself gave MMY the technique. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 8th July 1971 in Amherst, U.S.A., Maharishi Mahesh Yogi made > >>>> the > >>>>>> following statement which contradicts the assumption that he > >>>>>> never > >>>>>> claimed the TM technique came from Guru Dev Shankaracharya Swami > >>>>>> Brahmanand Saraswati. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 'But the great impact of Guru Dev, in his lifetime, in bringing > >>>> out so > >>>>>> clearly and in such simple words, this technique of TM. And his, > >>>> his > >>>>>> blessing for, for this movement which came out much after he left > >>>> his > >>>>>> body. Because there was no, no occasion during his lifetime for, > >>>> for > >>>>>> any of his intimate blessed disciples to go out of his presence > >>>> and > >>>>>> that's why this any such movement to bless the world couldn't > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> started during his time'. > >>>>> > >>>>> As has been repeated here before many times > >>>> > >>>> (Which must make it true...) > >>>> > >>>> , and also verified by > >>>>> Dana Sawyer in his research with SBS's sect the Dandis > >>>> > >>>> Documentation, please. On what basis was it "verified"? > >>> > >>> > >>> You'd have to ask Dana. He's talked to many of these guys. I have > >>> his article on the Dandis and it may mention it simply in passing, > >>> as what they do with householders. > >>> > >>> Keep in mind there are teachers in the Shank. tradition who will > >>> realize a certain student is ripe for non-dual meditation and teach > >>> them a method that isn't as dualistic as meditation with an object. > >> > >> Here's a couple comments from Dana on another list. Interestingly he > >> finds, as do many who've contacted me during the false idea that TM > >> was effortless threads, that some effort, even strenuous effort > >> greatly increase the experience of TC: > >> > >>> why would they learn from MMY what they can learn for free anywhere? > >>> Mantra japa, practiced as TMers do it, is a common practice in > >>> India. > >>> > >>> > >>> As you know, Maharishi taught that effortlessness the key to > >> successful > >>> practice had been lost from general practice. Are you saying, > >>> Dana, > >>> that "mantra japa" includes instructions for effortless practice? > >> > >> In both Hindu and Buddhist traditions there is a long standing > >> tradition > >> of starting off new meditators with an easy practice. What we did/ > >> do as > >> TMers is often pitched in Hinduism as the correct process for > >> those who > >> chant kirtana. While the mantras are being chanted, stay with the > >> tones - > >> don't concentrate on a particular tone but keep the mind with the > >> sound. > >> "What if I wander off?" It's OK, just bring your attention back to > >> the > >> tones when you realize you've drifted off. I've heard this a hundred > >> times. By the way, it's the initial instruction for chanting given to > >> Hare Krishnas. The idea (whether the mantra is spoken out loud or > >> not) > >> is that the special character of Sanskrit mantras will draw the > >> mind to > >> the Absolute. > >> > >> BTW, in Buddhist practice - of both major traditions - > >> concentration is > >> cultivated. BUT, in recognition of the difficulty of perfect > >> concentration, they often start students out with mantra repetition > >> with a > >> mala. Moving the beads helps keep the mind with the mantra but > >> otherwise > >> the student is allowed to drift. This is a baby step toward deep > >> concentration for them. when it's done with breath counting, Tibetans > >> sometimes tell students to focus only on the inward breath and let > >> the > >> mind go on the outward breath. > >> > >> Regarding the piece about needing thoughts during meditation because > >> they > >> are the products of stress relief. I've never heard that before. > >> Perhaps > >> because there is no teaching about "stress release" in Hinduism or > >> Buddhism. MMY's concept of stress certainly grew out of the need > >> to find > >> an equivalent term for samskaras - the seeds of karma that promote > >> action. > >> In both traditions the notion is that samskaras predispose our > >> views and > >> behaviors and so perspective on them must be gained. In Buddhism the > >> idea > >> is to breath insight and mindfulness into them, to disentangle > >> ourselves > >> from their influence. In Advaita Hinduism (including TM Hinduism), > >> the > >> goal is to dissolve them by cultivating a deeper apprehension of > >> Brahman/ > >> Atman - as you know. Anyway, MMY's idea that thoughts during > >> meditation > >> are indicative of these samskaras dissolving (rather than simply the > >> flux > >> of the unfocused mind) seems to be the original idea. But is it > >> true or > >> only a rationalization to intice lazy Americans? I wonder. > >> > >> > >>> Or do you contend that effortlessness is superfluous to > >>> transcending? > >> > >> Yes, I'll make that claim - for the fun of exploring it. My > >> experience is > >> that it is possible to have the experience of what TMers call samadhi > >> (TC) > >> via a technique that uses extreme effort. During years of shammata > >> and > >> zazen I had more experiences of that sort than I did during my 15 > >> years of > >> regular TM. On the other hand, I think it is very possible to do > >> TM for > >> centuries and never experience samadhi. So often I used to go into > >> this > >> soft, fluffy laya state and just stay there. Effortlessness certainly > >> doesn't guarantee a samadhi experience, and concentration doesn't > >> preclude > >> it. That's my experience. > >> > > > > How do you know you're in samadhi, either via TM or some other > > technique? > > Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs. >
Of course there are... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
