Craig, would you consider posting PDFs of a score and a part page and show us what Dorico produces without having tweaked much? Personally I’m more interested to see an orchestra piece.
Thanks, Thomas Schaller > On Jan 27, 2019, at 8:08 PM, Craig Parmerlee <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes, it is a big learning curve. I never really learned Sibelius, and I > haven't learned MuseScore, so I can't really compare the size of the learning > curve. My guess is the Dorico learning curve is more difficult for advanced > Finale users of long standing: > > 1) Because Dorico is considerably more sophisticated than either Sibelius or > MuseScore. > 2) Because Dorico uses a fundamentally different architecture (notes are > abstracted away from the music "canvas" and many operations are driven by a > very large set of rules. > 3) Because of Dorico's rapid development, the documentation simply has not > kept pace. > > I have found it necessary to compile my own personal user guide so that I can > quickly find my way back to the pertinent options, settings and procedures I > rely on. I do this for most software products just to help me learn them. > But in the case of Dorico, I still find myself referring to this document > every single session, and I usually add something to the document every day I > use the program. It is now 30 pages long, and that is mostly my own > shorthand. My table of contents has about 50 topics. > > My point is that this really is a major learning commitment, and many Finale > users will find they are happier staying with what they know and what is > working for them. Nothing at all wrong with that. > > > On 1/26/2019 6:56 PM, David H. Bailey wrote: >> Craig, >> >> Thank you for sharing these thoughts. You have made much more progress with >> Dorico than I have made, so I didn't feel qualified to respond. But I'm glad >> you were able to make the comparisons. >> >> I know that becoming better acquainted with Dorico is in my imminent future, >> but most of the projects I've been working on lately have had short >> timetables so learning a new software hasn't been possible. >> >> soon . . . >> >> Thanks, >> David >> >> >> On 1/26/2019 5:01 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: >>> Here are some observations about each of the plug-in examples. Let me >>> stipulate that the Finale plug-ins might provide some unusual visual >>> results that aren't directly matched by Dorico, so I am not claiming >>> equivalence on any of these. >>> >>> 1. Copy arbitrary material regardless of barlines, etc. This is inherent >>> in Dorico, and I think you would find this far more productive in Dorico. >>> Dorico does not provide any drag-and-drop, but the cut and paste model is >>> extremely powerful. It even allows 1-to-many pasting, and pasting to >>> discontinuous staffs and so on. Also there is a very powerful capability >>> where you can select any material, press "R" and it automatically >>> duplicates the material placing it immediately to the right of the >>> selection, which still expressing everything correctly with no touch-up >>> required. >>> >>> 2. Mass relink. This is inherent in Dorico. Moreover, Dorico seems to >>> make better assumptions about when to automatically reflect score changes >>> in parts and vice versa. >>> >>> 3. Autocreate MM rests. This is always automatic. You never "create" any >>> MM rests. It is inherent. There are some options for visual appearance. >>> >>> 4. Multiple sets of not spacings. I am not aware of anything line this in >>> Dorico. Of course you can edit the parts directly to apply any spacing you >>> need. >>> >>> 5. Designate certain text as titles. There is only "text" and "system text" >>> in Dorico. There is no hierarchy of text objects, such as an outline mode >>> in a word processor. However, you have a great deal of control over the >>> formatting of any text object and you can freely copy and reuse any of your >>> text items. So if you have a text object formatted as a "title", you can >>> copy that anywhere else you need a similar title to appear. Moreover, >>> Dorico has a higher level of abstraction for these situations. Your file >>> can consist of multiple "flows", which are like movements. And each flow >>> can have a title, with options how and when to display those titles. >>> >>> 6. Mass align hairpins. There is no mass alignment, but if you have a >>> 4-bar passage, you can enter the dynamic as "Fp<mp>ppp" and Dorico will >>> enter that dynamic as a group that is all aligned. And if you copy that >>> group to other staves, they will be aligned (taking in to account the >>> collisions). So if you enter it properly, you never need to go back and >>> fix it. Dorico moves the groups around (maintaining the alignment) as >>> needed even if the music changes to create a new collision. >>> >>> 7. Various fixes. Most of these situations just don't happen in Dorico. >>> And you have complete control over the rhythmic position and length of >>> every object, so anything like this is very easy to fix. >>> >>> 8. Movements. See 5 above. it is far more elegant than in Finale. And >>> flows have other uses. I often keep extra flows in my score as scratchpads >>> or two different versions of a harmonization until I am sure I have it >>> right. I just did a big band chart that has a 16-bar a cappella fugue in 4 >>> voices. That was very tedious as I am not a fugue person, so I created a >>> separate flow just for those 16 bars. That 16-bar flow was reduced to only >>> 4 players plus a chord playback staff so I could get all the counterpoint >>> working. Once that was right, I coped those 16 bars to the main flow and >>> expanded the voices to let that section build over the 16 bars. This is >>> all very straightforward under Dorico. You can certainly do something like >>> that with Finale programming a view, but I'd probably put the scratchpad in >>> a completely separate MUSX file. Either way works, but it is much faster >>> in Dorico because all of the above is just a few mouse clicks in setup mode. >>> >>> 9 Transfer page payout. There is no template capability in Dorico, which >>> is a bit of a weakness. However, if you have a score set up the way you >>> like it, you can easily copy that and use that as the basis for your new >>> project. And you can do that after the fact by exporting your flow(s) from >>> one score and importing the flow(s) into the score that has the layout your >>> want. And as far as parts go, Dorico has a "master page" structure where >>> you can develop a master page that can be used by any number of parts. >>> This area of Dorico is rather complicated, but looks very powerful. I >>> haven't used it much. >>> >>> 10. TG Tools. No questions on this one. >>> >>> 11. Proportionately scale staffs. I don't know about this. There are lots >>> of options in Dorico for this kind of thing, but I don't know that any of >>> them do what you want here. >>> >>> 12. Modeless plug-in problem. I don't know about that. There aren't any >>> plugins in Dorico. You can, however, do hot key assignments for any of >>> hundreds of commands. And there are folks who are using the "Stream Deck" >>> keypad to really boost their productivity. I haven't done that yet. >>> That's not a direct replacement for plug-ins, but enables a different kind >>> of workflow that may enable even greater productivity than you get from >>> plug-ins. >>> >>> I'm not trying to sell anybody on Dorico. I am only trying to explain how >>> it differs from the architecture of the older programs. It really is a >>> different experience. You would develop a different workflow, and anybody >>> deeply invested in the plug-in style of operation may find that difficult >>> to change. To me, it boils down to the apparent fact that Finale is not >>> going to be improved very much from this point. If Finale is doing what >>> one needs, then stick with it. Dorico is radical in some respects. It >>> isn't for everybody. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/26/2019 10:04 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: >>>> Besides the Patterson Beams, TGTools, and JW plugins included in Finale, I >>>> use 3rd party plugins to >>>> >>>> 1. Copy arbitrary combinations and patterns of expressions, dynamics, >>>> articulations, and other elements in a repeated fashion, independent of >>>> barlines, both vertically and horizontally. >>>> >>>> 2. Mass Relink, which can relink the score to the part's settings or vice >>>> versa. >>>> >>>> 3. Autocreate multimeasure rests with many more options than Finale has, >>>> including the ability to add extra space for clef changes or force the >>>> creation of multimeasure rests in places where Finale won't create them. >>>> >>>> 4. Maintain multiple sets of note spacing settings per measure region and >>>> per part. Then a single invocation of the plugin spaces the music according >>>> to those settings, taking into account the current part. Even better, by >>>> means of a nifty trick that someone suggested on this list. the plugins can >>>> get tighter spacing with ledger lines than Finale does. >>>> >>>> 5. Designate certain text expressions as titles (i.e., for movement titles) >>>> or footnotes or headnotes. Then invoke a plugin than finds them in every >>>> part and correctly positions them. This is *way* better workaround than >>>> Finale's Page Titles for this kind of thing. >>>> >>>> 6. Mass align and move dynamics and hairpins. (TGTools Align/Move is >>>> included in Finale but the version in the full TGTools is much more >>>> powerful.) >>>> >>>> 7. Quickly repair common screwups in Finale, such as restoring lost note >>>> spacing from a saved copy or moving expressions and endpoints that have >>>> lost their notes due to Speedy edits. >>>> >>>> 8. With one simple menu click, start a new movement. That is, show full >>>> names, indent the first system, restart the measure numbers from 1, twiddle >>>> the measure bits in the current and preceding measure as needed. With one >>>> menu click that has no dialog box. >>>> >>>> 9. Transfer page layout from one document to another and/or one part to >>>> another and/or within a single document or part. Including (optionally) >>>> system baselines for expressions and lyrics. >>>> >>>> 10. I recently discovered the JW Change plugin that can do so much that I >>>> have only begun to digest all the ways in which I might use it. >>>> >>>> 11. TGTools has an option to proportionally expand or contract the staves >>>> in a system. This saves me hours, especially on large multistaff scores >>>> like orchestra scores. Then once you have that system perfectly fitted to >>>> your margins, you can copy the staff layout to page after page and make >>>> only minor tweaks thereafter. >>>> >>>> 12. Fix the focus problem with modeless plugin windows on Mac (Fin25.4 and >>>> higher). >>>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Finale mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale >>> >>> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: >>> [email protected] >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Finale mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: > [email protected] _______________________________________________ Finale mailing list [email protected] https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: [email protected]
