>And Bobinson's last letter seems to suggest that since "Christians" restrict women Hindu zealots can as well.
you can't interpret it as let it be hindu-muslim or christian everyone restricts women ? come on ! 2009/3/1 James Michael <[email protected]> > I am sorry to intervene at this late moment.Bobinson's points can be > summarized as follows: > If we take the slokas in itself, devoid of any historical contexts, it just > preaches about knowledge. > And Bobinson's last letter seems to suggest that since "Christians" > restrict women Hindu zealots can as well. > Now his arguments suffer from a double paradox. In the first instance, he > wants to de-contextualise slokas and see it is a pure objects, when it comes > to the issue of Hindu zealots oppressing women, as in the case of Sri Ram > Sene, he wants to contextualise it in terms of Christians oppressing women. > Now that this is the issue, we should know that we cannot any longer > de-contextualise Bobinson himself from this paradox and seek to find out > what his real intention is. > My suggestion to Bobinson would be that while discussing about Slokas etc. > we cannot be blind to issues like centuries of oppression that has been > perpetuated in the name of these slokas. For example, these slokas > themselves aren't anything greater than some wisecracks and since we can > very well do with out it, why should these stand as symbols of our > intellectual and moral standards? > And also, we cannot dissociate these slokas from others in its ilk which > talk about the legitimisation of untouchability and other inhuman crimes. > The institute where I am studying, ever since it was converted into a > Central University, has decided to do away with the Sanskrit sloka which > 'adorned' its name. > Now it just says: "Words Illumine Everything". > James. > > 2009/3/1 bobinson <[email protected]> > > >Leaving all those factors aside will only help people like Ashik and >> Bobinson to formulate phrases such as "Saffron clad Talibans" and assume >> that violence in India is a foreign invention. >> >> >> >> Please go through the entire mail chain where I used Acid-Base, pH >> analogy. To explain the behavior of the organizations. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid%E2%80%93base_reaction >> >> I used the term "saffron clad Talibans" to show my opposition to the >> policies followed by the folks whom generally we refer as "saffron clad" and >> extremist Taliban and various other similar groups. As I had explained >> above, in one of my earlier posts, these two oppose each or at least project >> themselves as opposing each other. One worships women as God and the other >> according to the popular notion "consume" women. But in the end both the >> factions does exactly the same. >> >> I called them saffron clad talibans in the lime light of recent attack >> against women in Bangalore. I was thinking of a photo series of saree >> wearing cows, churidar wearing cows, velied cows to protest against the >> recent attrocities. I think I will need to write yet another "hitchhikers >> guide to galaxy" to explain the idea/theme. >> >> But then I am not surprised because "It is difficult" >> >> Voilence in India is not a future invention and it may be supported "ABCD" >> organizations outside India but it never happens without the help of forces >> inside India. >> >> Now when it comes to restricting women Christians also are not behind. >> Christian women are adivced to cover their head in churches and men are not. >> >> ~ bobinson >> -- >> http://freebird.in >> >> >> >> >> >> 2009/3/1 Fathima Naeema <[email protected]> >> >> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> Equating Saffron with Taliban is a political strategy of right wing >>> Hindutva. It helps them to argue that India is a ‘peaceful’ (*santipurna >>> *) state, *"Saffrons*" are ‘peace-loving’ (*santi*-*priya*) people and >>> that the present run of violence are aberrations. I had raised this issue >>> while responding to the discussion on Sreerama Sena's attack on pub-going >>> girls in Mangalore. >>> >>> >>> >>> We need to engage with the violence of Taliban and Saffron differently >>> and the trope of Taliban should not limit a more complex analysis to emerge. >>> There are many other factors which made Afghan women more subject to >>> violence than at any time before. Image of veiled women is enough for >>> these people to show that Islam and its verities of forms are >>> oppressive to women. They will never accommodate other "secular" reasons- >>> militarization, social disintegration, intense poverty, drugs and endless >>> war- to read violence against women in Afghanistan. Leaving all those >>> factors aside will only help people like Ashik and Bobinson to formulate >>> phrases such as "Saffron clad Talibans" and assume that violence in India is >>> a foreign invention. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Fathima Naeema >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 4:03 PM, ranju radha <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> >>is it so difficult ? >>>> >>>> the construction of excellnce and merit comes from this universal claim >>>> to knwledge. >>>> these "meritorous" people have been asking this question "is it >>>> difficult?" for long >>>> it can be explicated as : >>>> is it difficult to get killed/raped bz u hav shown the courage to live >>>> with dignity? >>>> is it diffucult to find another place to study bz u pollute >>>> IITs/IIMS/AIIMS? >>>> is it difficult ? etc. >>>> >>>> equating excellnce with brahminsm and its value system and extnding t >>>> to the realm of modern education... how cleverly and easily... they have >>>> made it and we r only left with the option to find out the meaning of words >>>> eventually endorsing their claim on knowledge. it was not at all difficult >>>> !! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 6:41 PM, bobinson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> my point is look at the slokam as a a set of words talking about >>>>> knowledge! And I found it very apt provided I am not provided with any >>>>> proof >>>>> to think that it was added there intentionally by the saffron gang to >>>>> influence all areas of society as some claim their ultimate goal is. >>>>> Thus, I >>>>> don't see any problem in the usage of slokam there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2009/2/27 Afthab Ellath <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>>> Bobison, Frankly I don't know how to explain the exact point of this >>>>>> thread... What you aim by saying as "saffron clad" is not the very >>>>>> subject >>>>>> here, but the brahminical scriptures and/or their brahminical meaning... >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> Afthab Ellath >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:39 PM, bobinson <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I meant, if we look at something with a notion that everything is >>>>>>> saffron clad we can see anything and everything that way. And since I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> not looking or thinking that everything is saffron clad, I didn't see >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> harm in a slokam which talks about knowledge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >But I am really outraged by your "tom dick and harry" comment...You >>>>>>> exactly know which tom dick and harry were reciting it... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sorry about that. Let me rephrase as: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have heard that scriptures were not written initially and if that >>>>>>> is true anyone can over hear while someone is studying / reciting the >>>>>>> scriptures. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2009/2/27 Afthab Ellath <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bobison, I cant understand what you are talking... please re-read >>>>>>>> what ashiq asked and my reply... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But I am really outraged by your "tom dick and harry" comment...You >>>>>>>> exactly know which tom dick and harry were reciting it... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Afthab Ellath >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 4:25 PM, bobinson <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> Every text has an extra-textual context and no text has absolute >>>>>>>>> meaning... Meaning and knowledge are historically and socially >>>>>>>>> constructed...* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> exactly ! that is the point I looked it as a talking about >>>>>>>>> knowledge only. it wasn't saffron clad at all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2009/2/27 Afthab Ellath <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Aashiq, Every text has an extra-textual context and no text has >>>>>>>>>> absolute meaning... Meaning and knowledge are historically and >>>>>>>>>> socially >>>>>>>>>> constructed... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> Afthab Ellath >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM, ashik salahudeen < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hmm . I was referring to the meaning of the shloka only. If you >>>>>>>>>>> look only at where it came from , then this *could* be interpreted >>>>>>>>>>> as not >>>>>>>>>>> belonging to everyone. To make my point clear, consider this : >>>>>>>>>>> What if they >>>>>>>>>>> (or anyone) were to use only the english paraphrasing so as to >>>>>>>>>>> remove any >>>>>>>>>>> evidence of where it came from ? Will it be different then ? *May >>>>>>>>>>> He protect both of us. May He nourish both of us. May we both >>>>>>>>>>> acquire the >>>>>>>>>>> capacity >>>>>>>>>>> (to study and understand the scriptures). May our study be >>>>>>>>>>> brilliant. May we not argue >>>>>>>>>>> with each other.* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> " The so called caste-hindus are bitterly opposed to the depressed class >>>> using a public tank not because they really believe that the water will be >>>> thereby spoiled or will evaporate but because they are afraid of losing >>>> their superiority of caste and of equality being established between the >>>> former and the latter. We are resorting to this satyagraha not becasue we >>>> believe that the water of this particular tank has any exceptional >>>> qualities, but to establish our natural rights as citizens and human >>>> beings." >>>> >>>> - Dr B.R. Ambedkar, Mahad Satyagraha Conference, December 25th , 1927 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > > -- > James Michael > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
