I would, but I couldn't find a copy of it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Leighton" <[email protected]> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content
> Have you read the agreement that accompanies the SDK? > > Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: >> I just read the Steam Subscriber Agreement ( >> http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) and it said nothing >> about .GCF files or using unmounted content. However, it defines "Steam >> Software" as "software and other content and updates", and restricts you >> from >> >> "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, >> photocopy, >> reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, >> disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any >> proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software >> accessed via Steam" >> >> Other agreements with Valve might apply, which I have forgotten about, or >> didn't read because they shouldn't cover copyright, such as the Steam >> Online >> Conduct ruleset, or the Valve Privacy Policy. >> >> The definition of Steam Software is unclear, and doesn't specify whether >> it >> includes the specific game content or not, but if it doesn't, the game >> content is fully covered by US Copyright Laws. Again, thus it could >> qualify >> as Fair Use (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for more >> information) >> because the works are non-comerical, only uses a bit of Valve's work CS:S >> as >> a whole, (educational purposes can apply to GuildHall mods for instance), >> and that a mod using a CS:S model will not harm or limit Valve's >> marketing >> or sales. >> >> Again, I have seen quite a few mods that utilizes content extracted from >> the >> .gcf files, such as TF2 or CS:S content, but I am yet to hear Valve >> complain >> about such usage. Note that Valve Employees probably will not respond to >> any >> questions regarding this, as they are not allowed to act officially for >> Valve without permission. If you really care, do mail the copyright >> department of Valve and ask. Of course, using a lot of CS:S content (such >> as >> binaries and maps) is not fair use, as it will be an illegal copy of the >> game (perhaps even stand-alone.) >> >> In conclusion, the Steam Subscriber Agreement doesn't directly prohibit >> you >> from extract and shipping content from the .GCF files, and if you do it >> carefully, it could count as Fair Use, and people on this list states >> that >> Valve doesn't care (which doesn't make it legal). I don't recommend doing >> so >> though, because it's questionably legal, but it's your decision. >> >> - Sortie >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Olly" <[email protected]> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >> >> >> >>> If its in the EULA (which I think it is) that says that you cannot use >>> unmounted content. Then you just shouldn't unless you have consent from >>> Valve. >>> Downloading music is illigal, and that's just copying data. I also >>> wouldn't >>> make any money from doing so. >>> >>> Emailing them would have been a much easier/accurate way to get an >>> answer. >>> >>> 2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>>> If it is actually illegal Valve will confront you and politely ask you >>>> to >>>> remove the copyrighted content, then when you do everything's OK. No >>>> trouble! >>>> >>>> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of their >>>>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only use >>>>> a >>>>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot >>>>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can >>>>> >>>> quality >>>> >>>>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in >>>>> >>>> court, >>>> >>>>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. >>>>> The >>>>> same >>>>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't >>>>> recommend >>>>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small >>>>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the >>>>> >>>> content >>>> >>>>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which >>>>> >>>> increases >>>> >>>>> loadtimes. >>>>> >>>>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the >>>>> gameinfo.txt, >>>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod >>>>> >>>> successfully, >>>> >>>>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but >>>>> >>>> still. >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >>>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" >>>>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a >>>>>> computer thats okay? :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make >>>>>> sure >>>>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you >>>>>> >>>> provide. >>>> >>>>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do it >>>>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and >>>>>> >>>> modify >>>> >>>>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will >>>>>> complain about this. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: >>>>>> >>>>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your mod. >>>>>>> >>>> The >>>> >>>>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to be >>>>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you modify >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> few >>>>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod folder >>>>>>> >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>>>> will override the CS:S content. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play >>>>>>> >>>> your >>>> >>>>>>> mod >>>>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or >>>>>>> two), >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their >>>>>>> >>>> materials, >>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any >>>>>>> extra >>>>>>> .gcf >>>>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for >>>>>>> >>>>> small >>>>> >>>>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for >>>>>>> Fair >>>>>>> Use >>>>>>> because: >>>>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works >>>>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products >>>>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit >>>>>>> Valve's >>>>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S >>>>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works >>>>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) >>>>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as >>>>>>> >>>> long >>>> >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the >>>>>>> contents >>>>>>> >>>> of >>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is >>>>>>> mounting >>>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" >>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> said models in my mod. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the >>>>>>>> >>>> legal >>>> >>>>>>>> aspect? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> >>>> archives, >>>> >>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, >>>>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thanks, >>>> - Saul. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
