Agreed. I went looking for it yesterday, never found it. Probably in the GCF as it pops up when you first install the SDK.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected] > wrote: > I would, but I couldn't find a copy of it. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Leighton" <[email protected]> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <[email protected] > > > Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:57 PM > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > > > > Have you read the agreement that accompanies the SDK? > > > > Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen wrote: > >> I just read the Steam Subscriber Agreement ( > >> http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ ) and it said > nothing > >> about .GCF files or using unmounted content. However, it defines "Steam > >> Software" as "software and other content and updates", and restricts you > >> from > >> > >> "with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, > >> photocopy, > >> reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, > >> disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any > >> proprietary notices or labels from the Steam Software or any software > >> accessed via Steam" > >> > >> Other agreements with Valve might apply, which I have forgotten about, > or > >> didn't read because they shouldn't cover copyright, such as the Steam > >> Online > >> Conduct ruleset, or the Valve Privacy Policy. > >> > >> The definition of Steam Software is unclear, and doesn't specify whether > >> it > >> includes the specific game content or not, but if it doesn't, the game > >> content is fully covered by US Copyright Laws. Again, thus it could > >> qualify > >> as Fair Use (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for more > >> information) > >> because the works are non-comerical, only uses a bit of Valve's work > CS:S > >> as > >> a whole, (educational purposes can apply to GuildHall mods for > instance), > >> and that a mod using a CS:S model will not harm or limit Valve's > >> marketing > >> or sales. > >> > >> Again, I have seen quite a few mods that utilizes content extracted from > >> the > >> .gcf files, such as TF2 or CS:S content, but I am yet to hear Valve > >> complain > >> about such usage. Note that Valve Employees probably will not respond to > >> any > >> questions regarding this, as they are not allowed to act officially for > >> Valve without permission. If you really care, do mail the copyright > >> department of Valve and ask. Of course, using a lot of CS:S content > (such > >> as > >> binaries and maps) is not fair use, as it will be an illegal copy of the > >> game (perhaps even stand-alone.) > >> > >> In conclusion, the Steam Subscriber Agreement doesn't directly prohibit > >> you > >> from extract and shipping content from the .GCF files, and if you do it > >> carefully, it could count as Fair Use, and people on this list states > >> that > >> Valve doesn't care (which doesn't make it legal). I don't recommend > doing > >> so > >> though, because it's questionably legal, but it's your decision. > >> > >> - Sortie > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Olly" <[email protected]> > >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > >> <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:58 PM > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > >> > >> > >> > >>> If its in the EULA (which I think it is) that says that you cannot use > >>> unmounted content. Then you just shouldn't unless you have consent from > >>> Valve. > >>> Downloading music is illigal, and that's just copying data. I also > >>> wouldn't > >>> make any money from doing so. > >>> > >>> Emailing them would have been a much easier/accurate way to get an > >>> answer. > >>> > >>> 2009/5/14 Saul Rennison <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> > >>>> If it is actually illegal Valve will confront you and politely ask you > >>>> to > >>>> remove the copyrighted content, then when you do everything's OK. No > >>>> trouble! > >>>> > >>>> 2009/5/14 Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen <[email protected]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Technically, you are not stealing from Valve by making a copy of > their > >>>>> works, if they don't lose anything, which the clause that you only > use > >>>>> a > >>>>> small portion of their content includes, because the content cannot > >>>>> substitute CS:S, and then it won't affect their sales, thus it can > >>>>> > >>>> quality > >>>> > >>>>> as Fair Use under the US Copyright laws. But it's still untested in > >>>>> > >>>> court, > >>>> > >>>>> and will vary on a case basis, and I am not an US copyright expert. > >>>>> The > >>>>> same > >>>>> argument goes for editing the content. Again, note that I don't > >>>>> recommend > >>>>> doing this, but if it's legal due to Fair Use, and you only use small > >>>>> amounts of content, it will be much faster for the mod to load the > >>>>> > >>>> content > >>>> > >>>>> from its own folder, instead of adding another search path, which > >>>>> > >>>> increases > >>>> > >>>>> loadtimes. > >>>>> > >>>>> Oh and be careful when mounting .GCFs from code and not the > >>>>> gameinfo.txt, > >>>>> > >>>> I > >>>> > >>>>> had some experience that some people couldn't launch the mod > >>>>> > >>>> successfully, > >>>> > >>>>> even if they had the .GCF I was mounting. Might be fixed though, but > >>>>> > >>>> still. > >>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Julian Moschüring" <[email protected]> > >>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > >>>>> > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:57 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Game Content > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> "-You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works" > >>>>>> Nice reasoning, so if I go into a shop and only steal eg a part of a > >>>>>> computer thats okay? :-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think you should mount the CS:S content because you have to make > >>>>>> sure > >>>>>> the users who use your mod own the right to have the models you > >>>>>> > >>>> provide. > >>>> > >>>>>> Legally you are not even allowed to ship the modified model. To do > it > >>>>>> totally right you would have to extract the gcf during install and > >>>>>> > >>>> modify > >>>> > >>>>>> the original model... but, as Jonas said, I don't think valve will > >>>>>> complain about this. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen schrieb: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> My personal expierence is that you can use CS:S Content in your > mod. > >>>>>>> > >>>> The > >>>> > >>>>>>> 100% legal way is to mount CS:S content but that requires CS:S to > be > >>>>>>> installed and owned by everyone who own your mod. Then if you > modify > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> few > >>>>>>> models, you can simply make some replacements in your own mod > folder > >>>>>>> > >>>>> that > >>>>> > >>>>>>> will override the CS:S content. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> If you want a more questionable method that allows everyone to play > >>>>>>> > >>>> your > >>>> > >>>>>>> mod > >>>>>>> (and faster because you don't have to mount another .gcf file or > >>>>>>> two), > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>> can simply extract the few models you wish to edit and their > >>>>>>> > >>>> materials, > >>>> > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>> put them in your mod's folder. This way you don't depend on any > >>>>>>> extra > >>>>>>> .gcf > >>>>>>> files or that people have CS:S installed. This should work fine for > >>>>>>> > >>>>> small > >>>>> > >>>>>>> amounts of content. While untested in court, it could qualify for > >>>>>>> Fair > >>>>>>> Use > >>>>>>> because: > >>>>>>> - You only included small amounts of Valve's copyrighted works > >>>>>>> - The content required at least one of Valve's products > >>>>>>> - The content used doesn't include the whole CS:S and doesn't limit > >>>>>>> Valve's > >>>>>>> sales, because the content isn't CS:S > >>>>>>> - You do not earn any money from their works > >>>>>>> - (You edited their works to some degree) > >>>>>>> - (I have never heard of Valve having any complaints about this, as > >>>>>>> > >>>> long > >>>> > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>>> the above is true, despite the EULA probably saying otherwise) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Again, whether it's legal or advised to extract and ship the > >>>>>>> contents > >>>>>>> > >>>> of > >>>> > >>>>>>> a > >>>>>>> GCF file, the perfectly safe but annoying way of doing it is > >>>>>>> mounting > >>>>>>> > >>>>> the > >>>>> > >>>>>>> CSS GCF file, but the way you do it is up to you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Yaakov Smith" <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:09 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: [hlcoders] Game Content > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Example: I want to mess with CS:S models and include modifications > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> said models in my mod. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Could I legally do that, but mount the CS:S content to cover the > >>>>>>>> > >>>> legal > >>>> > >>>>>>>> aspect? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>>> > >>>> archives, > >>>> > >>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> archives, > >>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> archives, > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> - Saul. > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> Sent from Olly's SEGA Game Gear > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
