Good morning Dinesh Ji My count is about 25, not sure but certainly more than 20. So, let's wait for Vijayasankar Ji.
Thank you for the upload. I get to learn something about *Abutilon*, just as you have said the efforts have helped knowing about abutilons a bit better. Regards surajit On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 12:01 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > About 26 or 28 Surajit ji. > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:25 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks Vijay Sir. >> Dinesh Ji, can you please check the number of carpels, which is still >> green in one of your photographs? >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> OK Vijayasankar ji !!!! Thank you very much. >>> I think we worked hard :-) but the efforts have helped in knowing about >>> abutilons a bit better. >>> Will go with Abutilon indicum. >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:27 PM, Vijayasankar <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> Dinesh ji, >>>> >>>> The posted plant could be as simple as Abutilon indicum. The mericarps >>>> are acute (not rounded at tip), about 18 (20 or less) and the plant doesn't >>>> seem to have viscid hairs - all pointing to A. indicum. >>>> >>>> Vijay >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Vijayasankar Raman, Ph.D. >>>> Research Scientist >>>> National Center for Natural Products Research >>>> University of Mississippi, MS, USA >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you again Dinesh Ji. >>>>> Regards >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Oh yes Surajit ji ... colours in descriptions help in general >>>>>> identification. Variation in colours is quite possible. Thanks for this >>>>>> clarity. >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:14 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much Dinesh Ji, for everything and links. >>>>>>> I would like to add that description and picture in FloraKarnataka >>>>>>> (or anywhere else) should not be taken as exhaustive. Vijay Sir has >>>>>>> flower >>>>>>> without "purple" base - >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/itKwnycckx8/sl-J3Mdmmv4J >>>>>>> Many thanks to Anurag Ji as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many many thanks Surajit ji for all your efforts. >>>>>>>> Yesterday night Anurag helped me with following links ... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Abutilon hirtum*: herbarium >>>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20hirtum/P1010874.JPG> >>>>>>>> | description >>>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20hirtum/245.pdf.jpg> >>>>>>>> | picture >>>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/field/Abutilon%20hirtum/Picture%20076.jpg> >>>>>>>> *Abutilon pannosum*: herbarium >>>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20pannosum/P1010873.JPG> >>>>>>>> | description >>>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With all that you discussed and pointed out, I am convinced that >>>>>>>> the posted plant is not *A. pannosum*; it *must* be *A. hirtum*. >>>>>>>> Many thanks to Anurag too - especially for the herbarium of *A. >>>>>>>> pannosum*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:07 AM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good morning Dinesh Ji >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was >>>>>>>>> examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps >>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>> bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and >>>>>>>>> repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed >>>>>>>>> under *Abutilon hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, >>>>>>>>> not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum >>>>>>>>> is it I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps >>>>>>>>>> not *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the >>>>>>>>>> calyx is relatively very short). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for >>>>>>>>>> pointing to the link and for elaborating the features. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My naive query: >>>>>>>>>> Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and >>>>>>>>>> dried up naturally on the plant ? >>>>>>>>>> 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - >>>>>>>>>> thus would seem higher than the calyx >>>>>>>>>> 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser >>>>>>>>>> dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the >>>>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>>>> pic of the posted plant. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species >>>>>>>>>> other than *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh Ji, >>>>>>>>>>> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in >>>>>>>>>>> KEW >>>>>>>>>>> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> >>>>>>>>>>> site. The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree >>>>>>>>>>> that *A. >>>>>>>>>>> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted >>>>>>>>>>> "Capsules about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed >>>>>>>>>>> verticel, very downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this >>>>>>>>>>> mark >>>>>>>>>>> distinguishes it immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica* >>>>>>>>>>> ...." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon >>>>>>>>>>> pannosum*, I think. >>>>>>>>>>> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, >>>>>>>>>>> not like yours one in this thread. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are >>>>>>>>>>>> not well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, >>>>>>>>>>>> but my observation does not take care of possibility of variances >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> pointedness. Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. >>>>>>>>>>>> pannosum*'s fruit on internet - thus not sure whether the >>>>>>>>>>>> fruit is globose as described OR seemingly globose. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both >>>>>>>>>>>>> *muticum*, with different author citation, and *pannosum*. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Roxburgh's plant has fruit both top and bottom rounded. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> appears to me >>>>>>>>>>>>> the top of your mericarps are not exactly rounded. But at the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same time I >>>>>>>>>>>>> also understand that what Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a >>>>>>>>>>>>> bit >>>>>>>>>>>>> different with the real thing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is >>>>>>>>>>>>> synonymous with *A. pannosum*. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pictures of fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> species level of this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genus which I miss in this thread >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't recognize *muticum*; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pannosum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FI, matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same FI >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malamba & Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gundolli >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 15 mm across. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they are round enough to look like the ones at Western >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Desert Flora >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). 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