Good morning Dinesh Ji I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps have a bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species.
Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed under *Abutilon hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum is it I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. Thank you Regards surajit On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps not > *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the calyx is > relatively very short). > > Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for pointing > to the link and for elaborating the features. > > My naive query: > Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and dried up > naturally on the plant ? > 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - thus would > seem higher than the calyx > 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser > dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the first > pic of the posted plant. > > So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species other than > *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) > > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Dinesh Ji, >> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in KEW >> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> site. >> The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree that *A. >> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted "Capsules >> about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed verticel, very >> downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this mark distinguishes it >> immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica*...." >> >> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon pannosum*, >> I think. >> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, not like >> yours one in this thread. >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are not >>> well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, but my >>> observation does not take care of possibility of variances in pointedness. >>> Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. pannosum*'s fruit on >>> internet - thus not sure whether the fruit is globose as described OR >>> seemingly globose. >>> >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both *muticum*, with >>>> different author citation, and *pannosum*. Roxburgh's plant has fruit >>>> both top and bottom rounded. It appears to me the top of your mericarps are >>>> not exactly rounded. But at the same time I also understand that what >>>> Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a bit different with the real thing. >>>> >>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is synonymous >>>> with *A. pannosum*. >>>> >>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>> >>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear pictures of >>>>>> fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id species level of this genus >>>>>> which >>>>>> I miss in this thread >>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but doesn't >>>>>> recognize *muticum*; >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. pannosum >>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in FI, >>>>>> matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the same FI >>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between Malamba & >>>>>>> Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & Gundolli >>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear friends, >>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit about 15 >>>>>>> mm across. >>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure whether >>>>>>> they are round enough to look like the ones at Western Desert Flora >>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than >>>>>>> a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>>>>> free >>>>>>> as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>>> of India'. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
