OK Vijayasankar ji !!!! Thank you very much. I think we worked hard :-) but the efforts have helped in knowing about abutilons a bit better. Will go with Abutilon indicum. Regards. Dinesh
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:27 PM, Vijayasankar <[email protected]> wrote: > Dinesh ji, > > The posted plant could be as simple as Abutilon indicum. The mericarps are > acute (not rounded at tip), about 18 (20 or less) and the plant doesn't > seem to have viscid hairs - all pointing to A. indicum. > > Vijay > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Vijayasankar Raman, Ph.D. > Research Scientist > National Center for Natural Products Research > University of Mississippi, MS, USA > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you again Dinesh Ji. >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Oh yes Surajit ji ... colours in descriptions help in general >>> identification. Variation in colours is quite possible. Thanks for this >>> clarity. >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:14 PM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you very much Dinesh Ji, for everything and links. >>>> I would like to add that description and picture in FloraKarnataka (or >>>> anywhere else) should not be taken as exhaustive. Vijay Sir has flower >>>> without "purple" base - >>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/itKwnycckx8/sl-J3Mdmmv4J >>>> Many thanks to Anurag Ji as well. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Many many thanks Surajit ji for all your efforts. >>>>> Yesterday night Anurag helped me with following links ... >>>>> >>>>> *Abutilon hirtum*: herbarium >>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20hirtum/P1010874.JPG> >>>>> | description >>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20hirtum/245.pdf.jpg> >>>>> | picture >>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/field/Abutilon%20hirtum/Picture%20076.jpg> >>>>> *Abutilon pannosum*: herbarium >>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20pannosum/P1010873.JPG> >>>>> | description >>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With all that you discussed and pointed out, I am convinced that the >>>>> posted plant is not *A. pannosum*; it *must* be *A. hirtum*. >>>>> Many thanks to Anurag too - especially for the herbarium of *A. >>>>> pannosum*. >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:07 AM, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Good morning Dinesh Ji >>>>>> >>>>>> I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was >>>>>> examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps have >>>>>> a >>>>>> bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and >>>>>> repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species. >>>>>> >>>>>> Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed under >>>>>> *Abutilon >>>>>> hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, >>>>>> not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum is >>>>>> it I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps >>>>>>> not *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the >>>>>>> calyx is relatively very short). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for >>>>>>> pointing to the link and for elaborating the features. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My naive query: >>>>>>> Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and >>>>>>> dried up naturally on the plant ? >>>>>>> 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - thus >>>>>>> would seem higher than the calyx >>>>>>> 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser >>>>>>> dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the first >>>>>>> pic of the posted plant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species other >>>>>>> than *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dinesh Ji, >>>>>>>> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in >>>>>>>> KEW >>>>>>>> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> >>>>>>>> site. The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree >>>>>>>> that *A. >>>>>>>> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted >>>>>>>> "Capsules about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed >>>>>>>> verticel, very downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this mark >>>>>>>> distinguishes it immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica*...." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon >>>>>>>> pannosum*, I think. >>>>>>>> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, not >>>>>>>> like yours one in this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>>>>>>>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are >>>>>>>>> not well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, but >>>>>>>>> my observation does not take care of possibility of variances in >>>>>>>>> pointedness. Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. >>>>>>>>> pannosum*'s fruit on internet - thus not sure whether the fruit >>>>>>>>> is globose as described OR seemingly globose. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both *muticum*, >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> different author citation, and *pannosum*. Roxburgh's plant has >>>>>>>>>> fruit both top and bottom rounded. It appears to me the top of your >>>>>>>>>> mericarps are not exactly rounded. But at the same time I also >>>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> that what Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a bit different with >>>>>>>>>> the real >>>>>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is >>>>>>>>>> synonymous with *A. pannosum*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>>>>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear >>>>>>>>>>>> pictures of fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id species >>>>>>>>>>>> level of this >>>>>>>>>>>> genus which I miss in this thread >>>>>>>>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but >>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't recognize *muticum*; >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>>>>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>>>>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>>>>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. pannosum >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in >>>>>>>>>>>> FI, matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the >>>>>>>>>>>> same FI >>>>>>>>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between Malamba & >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>>>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & Gundolli >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear friends, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit >>>>>>>>>>>>> about 15 mm across. >>>>>>>>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure >>>>>>>>>>>>> whether they are round enough to look like the ones at Western >>>>>>>>>>>>> Desert Flora >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also >>>>>>>>>>>>> use them >>>>>>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of >>>>>>>>>>>>> Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google >>>>>>>>>>>>> e-group >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on >>>>>>>>>>>>> 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with >>>>>>>>>>>>> a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 >>>>>>>>>>>>> images). 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