Thank you very much Dinesh Ji, for everything and links. I would like to add that description and picture in FloraKarnataka (or anywhere else) should not be taken as exhaustive. Vijay Sir has flower without "purple" base - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/itKwnycckx8/sl-J3Mdmmv4J Many thanks to Anurag Ji as well.
Regards surajit On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Many many thanks Surajit ji for all your efforts. > Yesterday night Anurag helped me with following links ... > > *Abutilon hirtum*: herbarium > <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20hirtum/P1010874.JPG> > | description > <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20hirtum/245.pdf.jpg> > | picture > <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/field/Abutilon%20hirtum/Picture%20076.jpg> > *Abutilon pannosum*: herbarium > <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20pannosum/P1010873.JPG> > | description > <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg> > > > With all that you discussed and pointed out, I am convinced that the > posted plant is not *A. pannosum*; it *must* be *A. hirtum*. > Many thanks to Anurag too - especially for the herbarium of *A. pannosum*. > > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:07 AM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Good morning Dinesh Ji >> >> I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was >> examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps have a >> bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and >> repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species. >> >> Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed under >> *Abutilon >> hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, >> not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum is it >> I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps not >>> *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the calyx is >>> relatively very short). >>> >>> Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for >>> pointing to the link and for elaborating the features. >>> >>> My naive query: >>> Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and dried up >>> naturally on the plant ? >>> 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - thus >>> would seem higher than the calyx >>> 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser >>> dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the first >>> pic of the posted plant. >>> >>> So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species other >>> than *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) >>> >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Dinesh Ji, >>>> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in KEW >>>> <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> >>>> site. The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree that >>>> *A. >>>> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted "Capsules >>>> about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed verticel, very >>>> downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this mark distinguishes it >>>> immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica*...." >>>> >>>> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon pannosum*, >>>> I think. >>>> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, not >>>> like yours one in this thread. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>>>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are not >>>>> well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, but my >>>>> observation does not take care of possibility of variances in pointedness. >>>>> Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. pannosum*'s fruit >>>>> on internet - thus not sure whether the fruit is globose as described OR >>>>> seemingly globose. >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both *muticum*, with >>>>>> different author citation, and *pannosum*. Roxburgh's plant has >>>>>> fruit both top and bottom rounded. It appears to me the top of your >>>>>> mericarps are not exactly rounded. But at the same time I also understand >>>>>> that what Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a bit different with the >>>>>> real >>>>>> thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is >>>>>> synonymous with *A. pannosum*. >>>>>> >>>>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear pictures >>>>>>>> of fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id species level of this >>>>>>>> genus >>>>>>>> which I miss in this thread >>>>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but doesn't >>>>>>>> recognize *muticum*; >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. pannosum >>>>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in FI, >>>>>>>> matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the same FI >>>>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between Malamba & >>>>>>>>> Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & Gundolli >>>>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear friends, >>>>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit about 15 >>>>>>>>> mm across. >>>>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure whether >>>>>>>>> they are round enough to look like the ones at Western Desert >>>>>>>>> Flora >>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, >>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) >>>>>>>>> or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). >>>>>>>>> Winner >>>>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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