Oh yes Surajit ji ... colours in descriptions help in general identification. Variation in colours is quite possible. Thanks for this clarity. Regards. Dinesh
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:14 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > Thank you very much Dinesh Ji, for everything and links. > I would like to add that description and picture in FloraKarnataka (or > anywhere else) should not be taken as exhaustive. Vijay Sir has flower > without "purple" base - > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/itKwnycckx8/sl-J3Mdmmv4J > Many thanks to Anurag Ji as well. > > Regards > surajit > > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Many many thanks Surajit ji for all your efforts. >> Yesterday night Anurag helped me with following links ... >> >> *Abutilon hirtum*: herbarium >> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20hirtum/P1010874.JPG> >> | description >> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20hirtum/245.pdf.jpg> >> | picture >> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/field/Abutilon%20hirtum/Picture%20076.jpg> >> *Abutilon pannosum*: herbarium >> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20pannosum/P1010873.JPG> >> | description >> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg> >> >> >> With all that you discussed and pointed out, I am convinced that the >> posted plant is not *A. pannosum*; it *must* be *A. hirtum*. >> Many thanks to Anurag too - especially for the herbarium of *A. pannosum* >> . >> >> Regards. >> Dinesh >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:07 AM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Good morning Dinesh Ji >>> >>> I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was >>> examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps have a >>> bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and >>> repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species. >>> >>> Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed under >>> *Abutilon >>> hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - >>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, >>> not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum is it >>> I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps not >>>> *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the calyx is >>>> relatively very short). >>>> >>>> Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for >>>> pointing to the link and for elaborating the features. >>>> >>>> My naive query: >>>> Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and dried >>>> up naturally on the plant ? >>>> 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - thus >>>> would seem higher than the calyx >>>> 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser >>>> dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the first >>>> pic of the posted plant. >>>> >>>> So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species other >>>> than *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) >>>> >>>> Regards. >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dinesh Ji, >>>>> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in >>>>> KEW <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> >>>>> site. The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree that >>>>> *A. >>>>> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted "Capsules >>>>> about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed verticel, very >>>>> downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this mark distinguishes it >>>>> immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica*...." >>>>> >>>>> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon >>>>> pannosum*, I think. >>>>> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, not >>>>> like yours one in this thread. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you >>>>> Regards >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>>>>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are not >>>>>> well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, but my >>>>>> observation does not take care of possibility of variances in >>>>>> pointedness. >>>>>> Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. pannosum*'s fruit >>>>>> on internet - thus not sure whether the fruit is globose as described OR >>>>>> seemingly globose. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both *muticum*, with >>>>>>> different author citation, and *pannosum*. Roxburgh's plant has >>>>>>> fruit both top and bottom rounded. It appears to me the top of your >>>>>>> mericarps are not exactly rounded. But at the same time I also >>>>>>> understand >>>>>>> that what Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a bit different with the >>>>>>> real >>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is >>>>>>> synonymous with *A. pannosum*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear pictures >>>>>>>>> of fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id species level of this >>>>>>>>> genus >>>>>>>>> which I miss in this thread >>>>>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but doesn't >>>>>>>>> recognize *muticum*; >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. pannosum >>>>>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in FI, >>>>>>>>> matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the same FI >>>>>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between Malamba & >>>>>>>>>> Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & Gundolli >>>>>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear friends, >>>>>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit about >>>>>>>>>> 15 mm across. >>>>>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure >>>>>>>>>> whether they are round enough to look like the ones at Western >>>>>>>>>> Desert Flora >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of >>>>>>>>>> Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) >>>>>>>>>> or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). >>>>>>>>>> Winner >>>>>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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