Thank you again Dinesh Ji. Regards surajit
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh yes Surajit ji ... colours in descriptions help in general > identification. Variation in colours is quite possible. Thanks for this > clarity. > Regards. > Dinesh > > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:14 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you very much Dinesh Ji, for everything and links. >> I would like to add that description and picture in FloraKarnataka (or >> anywhere else) should not be taken as exhaustive. Vijay Sir has flower >> without "purple" base - >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/itKwnycckx8/sl-J3Mdmmv4J >> Many thanks to Anurag Ji as well. >> >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Many many thanks Surajit ji for all your efforts. >>> Yesterday night Anurag helped me with following links ... >>> >>> *Abutilon hirtum*: herbarium >>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20hirtum/P1010874.JPG> >>> | description >>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20hirtum/245.pdf.jpg> >>> | picture >>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/field/Abutilon%20hirtum/Picture%20076.jpg> >>> *Abutilon pannosum*: herbarium >>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/herb/Abutilon%20pannosum/P1010873.JPG> >>> | description >>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Abutilon%20pannosum/246.pdf.jpg> >>> >>> >>> With all that you discussed and pointed out, I am convinced that the >>> posted plant is not *A. pannosum*; it *must* be *A. hirtum*. >>> Many thanks to Anurag too - especially for the herbarium of *A. >>> pannosum*. >>> >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:07 AM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Good morning Dinesh Ji >>>> >>>> I asked myself the very question you have pointed out when I was >>>> examining the KEW herb. My another query was can dried up mericarps have a >>>> bit pointed tip? That is why I cannot rule out any possibility and >>>> repeatedly said that maybe Roxburgh's plant is not the type species. >>>> >>>> Now please check an old thread which was identified and placed under >>>> *Abutilon >>>> hirtum* (Lam.) Sweet in our database - >>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/indiantreepix/TRSEpDxNHCA/6Q8xOMWuu88J, >>>> not the picture of the original post but pic no. Abutilon indicum is >>>> it I2 IMG_5261.jpg and series. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:05 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Anurag for your upload of possible *A. pannosum. *(Perhaps not >>>>> *pannosum* - mericarps do not appear rounded at top, and the calyx is >>>>> relatively very short). >>>>> >>>>> Yes Surajit ji, had seen the KEW herbarium image. Many thanks for >>>>> pointing to the link and for elaborating the features. >>>>> >>>>> My naive query: >>>>> Would that herbarium contain a fruit that was fully matured and dried >>>>> up naturally on the plant ? >>>>> 1) the mericarps could assume different shape as they dry up - thus >>>>> would seem higher than the calyx >>>>> 2) the calyx when drying tend to re-curve; would appear of lesser >>>>> dimension than that seen in a tender fruit - as can be seen in the first >>>>> pic of the posted plant. >>>>> >>>>> So much said - the posted plant may be different; some species other >>>>> than *indicum* AND *pannosum*. :-) >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dinesh Ji, >>>>>> You must have already viewed the only herbarium of *A. pannosum* in >>>>>> KEW <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000659530> >>>>>> site. The fruit is not clear there. So, it is hard to tell. I agree that >>>>>> *A. >>>>>> indicum* has more prominent beaks. However, Roxburgh noted "Capsules >>>>>> about twenty, nearly as high as the calyx, in a depressed verticel, very >>>>>> downy, reniform, equally rounded at each end, this mark distinguishes it >>>>>> immediately from *S. indica* and *asiatica*...." >>>>>> >>>>>> Surely, Roxburgh's plant is not the type species of *Abutilon >>>>>> pannosum*, I think. >>>>>> At the same time my record of *Abutilon indicum* is different, not >>>>>> like yours one in this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks Surajit ji for all the efforts. >>>>>>> I had posed the query because mericarps of the posted plant are not >>>>>>> well-pointed as I remember to have seen for *A. indicum*, but my >>>>>>> observation does not take care of possibility of variances in >>>>>>> pointedness. >>>>>>> Was disappointed to find almost no picture of *A. pannosum*'s fruit >>>>>>> on internet - thus not sure whether the fruit is globose as described OR >>>>>>> seemingly globose. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:17 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you Dinesh Ji, the problem is FoP recognizes both *muticum*, with >>>>>>>> different author citation, and *pannosum*. Roxburgh's plant has >>>>>>>> fruit both top and bottom rounded. It appears to me the top of your >>>>>>>> mericarps are not exactly rounded. But at the same time I also >>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>> that what Roxburgh recorded in writing may be a bit different with the >>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Moreover, Roxburgh's plant is not the only species which is >>>>>>>> synonymous with *A. pannosum*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, finally I never reject probability. I just don't know. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, agreed Surajit ji with all your points. >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 9:05 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg Sir, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - I have seen only one *Abutilon* and that is *indicum* >>>>>>>>>> - After going through lit. and efloras I think clear pictures >>>>>>>>>> of fruits, stipules, etc are necessary to id species level of >>>>>>>>>> this genus >>>>>>>>>> which I miss in this thread >>>>>>>>>> - Flora of India, vol3 (BSI) recognizes *pannosum* but >>>>>>>>>> doesn't recognize *muticum*; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon> >>>>>>>>>> *;* or are they synonymous? >>>>>>>>>> - Roxburgh's *Sida tomentosa* is synonymous with *Abutilon >>>>>>>>>> muticum* G. Don of FBI, maybe synonymous with *S. pannosum >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000659530>* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I do not think the fruit description of Roxburgh's plant, in FI, >>>>>>>>>> matches with the fruit picture in this thread. Neither the same FI >>>>>>>>>> description matches with other posts identified in our database. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 11:39 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> efi page on Abutilon pannosum >>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/m/malvaceae/abutilon/abutilon-pannosum> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: 20 February 2015 at 18:57 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:216131] along KSH 34 between Malamba & >>>>>>>>>>> Gundolli :: Abutilon pannosum FOR VALIDATION :: DVFEB47/80 >>>>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [image: along KSH34 Malamba & Gundolli] >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F15962692663&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzekde88pkb7cBA1u24KlyW8HEVjHQ>along >>>>>>>>>>> Karnataka State Highway No. 34 ... between Malamba & Gundolli >>>>>>>>>>> *Date*: 15 OCT 2011 ... *Altitude*: about 640 m asl >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> *Abutilon* ¿ *pannosum* ? ... (family: Malvaceae)Dear friends, >>>>>>>>>>> Shrub, about 1 m height; flower about 30 mm across, fruit about >>>>>>>>>>> 15 mm across. >>>>>>>>>>> While it looks like the mericarps are not beaked, not sure >>>>>>>>>>> whether they are round enough to look like the ones at Western >>>>>>>>>>> Desert Flora >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwesterndesertflora.geolab.cz%2Fherbarium%2FAbutilon_pannosum.php&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzegB3MlG4goXH1KytNL30j4SsU-MA> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257258369&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzff8a48gkP9wnYhW3ArQe4fwYW4Ag> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [image: Abutilon ¿ pannosum ?] >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F6257260471&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzfQFAPWqZZIl4HVxm53LZIJcMJXEg> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also >>>>>>>>>>> use them >>>>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of >>>>>>>>>>> Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google >>>>>>>>>>> e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> >>>>>>>>>>> (largest >>>>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) >>>>>>>>>>> or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). >>>>>>>>>>> Winner >>>>>>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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