I'll pick up the stone (http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/reasons-matter-when-intuitions-dont-object/) and argue that I cannot know if your Gods are false or not. Not because I am not a religious man, or a black man, or a political man, but because I am an individual and thereby only possess restrained demonstrable God powers myself.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > All Gods that religious men speak about, brandish shall we say, are false. > > The one distributing those "commandments" included. > > Which is not what I would say about individuals who take initiatives to > restrict people from moral turpitude and unethical conduct. > > > On Monday, October 15, 2012 11:01:46 AM UTC+5:30, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> doesn't one of the commandments say something about false gods? >> Allan >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 6:15 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Thank you, Vam- I hope it is another precious visit. >> > >> > Politics has become a "religion", as well. Just substitue a few words >> > in your paragraph. :-) >> > >> > On Oct 13, 5:38 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Rigs, I can't help but think of the presence of a daughter and her >> >> family >> >> as " Happy Times " with grand-daughters ... noise, play, shout, >> >> request, >> >> demand and irritate, reminisce and gossip ,,, ! Hope it acrually turns >> >> to >> >> be a happy interlude . >> >> >> >> I have no doubts about severely debilitating and cosmic effects of >> >> religions that junk reason and humanity, and demand their adherents too >> >> to >> >> remain steadfast with the irrational. An institutional frame of clerics >> >> and >> >> clergy for global control is no more than a prison, covered with very >> >> beguiling but false promise of freedom. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 13, 2012 6:20:40 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> >> >> > Not sure if religion, cults, tribal mischief did not have the same >> >> > effect Vam. Consider the countless wars, for instance. But I think >> >> > western man has turn the Age of Machines into a new religion and one >> >> > could draw many parallels- and has, via artists and authors. Anyway, >> >> > after spending way too much time finding a new niche for my morning >> >> > coffee maker before my daughter and two grand-daughters come for the >> >> > Xmas holidays (!), I have certainly racked up the equivalent of a >> >> > novena! BTW, a couple of years ago I noticed my feet were slightly >> >> > stiff in the morning and I worried that my flight to the kitchen for >> >> > a >> >> > mug of coffee could be perilous so I bought one of those small coffee >> >> > makers for the upstairs and now include a muffin- just to rev up the >> >> > joints before I seize the day. :-) Anyway, this might be a good idea >> >> > for any who need to warm/rev up. (This is my machine confession.) On >> >> > the other hand, I have been negotiating with the Divine for a new >> >> > lawn/ >> >> > snow guy and I am on the brink of success! lol >> >> >> >> > On Oct 11, 6:28 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > Bingo ! * sounding the drums * >> >> >> >> > > But what gives it the merit also renders science blind to much that >> >> > > is >> >> > > essential to our humanity, which are abstract and non-material ... >> >> > beauty, >> >> > > ethics, morals, truth, compassion, happiness, love, etc. >> >> >> >> > > Albert Einstein expressed is eloquently ... as have several others. >> >> >> >> > > There has been much since science overwhelmed us. But everytime it >> >> > > has >> >> > > served to delete a part or measure of our humanity, mankind has >> >> > > struck a >> >> > > blow at its own foot ! >> >> >> >> > > On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 5:46:04 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > I wasn't clear. I was thinking about new ideas and inventions >> >> > > > which >> >> > > > made older ideas and inventions obsolete or mere stepping stones >> >> > > > to a >> >> > > > greater truth. Science seems more open to changes and advances >> >> > > > for the >> >> > > > most part though Darwin had a struggle but that was because he >> >> > > > stepped >> >> > > > into religious territory which might mean that we are more open >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > change when it does not involve emotions and beliefs versus >> >> > > > demonstrable facts. >> >> >> >> > > > On Oct 9, 9:08 am, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > It will still be more clever than the rest ! >> >> >> >> > > > > On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 5:04:27 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > > Until the next cleverest man/woman comes along! :-) >> >> >> >> > > > > > On Oct 8, 5:56 pm, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > " Machines are only as clever as they have been programmed >> >> > > > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans >> >> > > > > > > for >> >> > > > specific >> >> > > > > > > acts or purposes ... " >> >> >> >> > > > > > > If a machine is programmed by the cleverest man, >> >> >> >> > > > > > > it would not be ' only ' as clever as it has been >> >> > > > > > > programmed >> >> >> >> > > > > > > but it would be more clever than every other man on the >> >> > > > > > > planet ! >> >> >> >> > > > > > > On Monday, October 8, 2012 5:01:02 PM UTC+5:30, rigsy03 >> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > And certain ants have also figured out how to enter the >> >> > > > > > > > honey >> >> > bee >> >> > > > as a >> >> > > > > > > > parasite which has an ominous impact on pollination. >> >> > > > > > > > Species >> >> > pick >> >> > > > up >> >> > > > > > > > their behaviors from their groups- some are more >> >> > > > > > > > dedicated- >> >> > > > patterns >> >> > > > > > > > can be disrupted.// Anyway, aren't you equating worth >> >> > > > > > > > with >> >> > money/ >> >> > > > > > > > salary?//Machines are only as clever as they have been >> >> > programmed >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > > > > > be. In some cases that may mean smarter than some humans >> >> > > > > > > > for >> >> > > > specific >> >> > > > > > > > acts or purposes but still short of general intelligence, >> >> > insight >> >> > > > and >> >> > > > > > > > adaptation.// Old age is not necessarily "lousey" except >> >> > > > > > > > the >> >> > final >> >> > > > > > > > chapter is death and certain goals were not realized or >> >> > possible. >> >> > > > Hard >> >> > > > > > > > work/age does not create arthritis- that is a myth. The >> >> > > > > > > > 12 >> >> > year >> >> > > > old >> >> > > > > > > > across the street has arthritis and started some exercise >> >> > > > > > > > for >> >> > > > > > > > violinists. >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > On Oct 7, 9:51 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > The archaeological evidence is that such things as the >> >> > > > > > > > > move >> >> > to >> >> > > > > > farming >> >> > > > > > > > > from hunter-gathering did not improve the human lot for >> >> > those >> >> > > > who >> >> > > > > > > > > cleared and dug sod (arthritis etc. from the work). >> >> > > > > > > > > The >> >> > obvious >> >> > > > > > issue >> >> > > > > > > > > for present society concerns the dubious status of our >> >> > > > > > > > > work >> >> > and >> >> > > > > > life- >> >> > > > > > > > > style ideologies. Slave-making ants kill the adults >> >> > > > > > > > > in >> >> > their >> >> > > > host >> >> > > > > > > > > ants and steal the 'eggs' in order to steal the work as >> >> > > > > > > > > they >> >> > > > become >> >> > > > > > > > > adult by making them raise their own brood. Even in >> >> > enslaved >> >> > > > ant >> >> > > > > > > > > consciousness something inspires 'rebellion' and 'duty' >> >> > > > > > > > > to >> >> > the >> >> > > > wider >> >> > > > > > > > > collective. Humans have a sad history of enslavement >> >> > > > > > > > > and >> >> > debt >> >> > > > > > > > > peonage. >> >> > > > > > > > > Undergraduates can be heard every year bemoaning >> >> > > > > > > > > salaries on >> >> > > > offer >> >> > > > > > for >> >> > > > > > > > > 'all their hard work' - few of them have done any! The >> >> > Chinese >> >> > > > > > refer >> >> > > > > > > > > to their graduates who don't get the good jobs as 'Ant >> >> > People'. >> >> > > > > > Some >> >> > > > > > > > > of my old colleagues inside technological manufacturing >> >> > > > > > > > > used >> >> > to >> >> > > > note >> >> > > > > > > > > the need for workers was disappearing faster than most >> >> > > > > > > > > knew >> >> > as >> >> > > > work >> >> > > > > > > > > and skill is embodied in technology (an old marxist >> >> > > > > > > > > theme). >> >> > My >> >> > > > own >> >> > > > > > > > > feeling is that we have killed off much valuable stuff >> >> > > > > > > > > that >> >> > > > James >> >> > > > > > > > > suggests through the ejukation system - falsely >> >> > > > > > > > > imagining >> >> > > > subjects >> >> > > > > > > > > designed in our dubious past teach anything other than >> >> > control >> >> > > > > > fraud. >> >> > > > > > > > > Even medical training involves a lot of unnecessary >> >> > > > > > > > > rot. >> >> > > > > > > > > Some of us think machines are better at 'thinking' than >> >> > > > > > > > > most >> >> > > > people >> >> > > > > > > > > (soon Gabby will be made redundant from her Gad-fly >> >> > > > > > > > > role >> >> > once I >> >> > > > > > clear >> >> > > > > > > > > up a few teething problems with the bots!), partly >> >> > > > > > > > > because >> >> > no >> >> > > > human >> >> > > > > > > > > can encompass the data loads. Allan and I share >> >> > > > > > > > > problems >> >> > with >> >> > > > our >> >> > > > > > > > > 'flash memory' - buzz, ping, PTSD etc. - (it's my time >> >> > > > > > > > > of >> >> > year >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > > > have >> >> > > > > > > > > flash-backs to Northern Ireland) - getting old is lousy >> >> > > > > > > > > - >> >> > soon >> >> > > > my >> >> > > > > > > > > friendly solid state world will move from Enlightenment >> >> > > > > > > > > to >> >> > > > > > > > > Entanglement as I stroke Schrodinger's cat. We have >> >> > > > > > > > > now >> >> > done >> >> > > > this >> >> > > > > > > > > experimentally with some tinkering. >> >> > > > > > > > > Memory is increasingly viewed as about our ability to >> >> > predict >> >> > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > > future - that is its purpose is for this. We find it >> >> > > > > > > > > in >> >> > > > non-human >> >> > > > > > > > > life-forms too. This is related to a general >> >> > > > > > > > > science-view >> >> > of >> >> > > > why a >> >> > > > > > > > > system would invest in the resources to have memory at >> >> > > > > > > > > all. >> >> > > > I'll >> >> > > > > > > > > leave this babble with the question 'where do the >> >> > > > > > > > > Spartacus >> >> > ants >> >> > > > > > > > > raised by the slavers get the memories that inspire >> >> > rebellion'? >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > On 6 Oct, 19:50, James <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > From another perspective one might like to >> >> > > > > > > > > > appreciate the >> >> > > > role >> >> > > > > > (or a >> >> > > > > > > > > > role) of life as within an integral spectrum. If >> >> > > > > > > > > > there is >> >> > a >> >> > > > world >> >> > > > > > with >> >> > > > > > > > > > meaning beyond our conceptions it would present a >> >> > challenge to >> >> > > > > > > > undertake >> >> > > > > > > > > > exploration and discovery. Regardless of conception >> >> > > > > > > > > > or >> >> > outside >> >> > > > our >> >> > > > > > > > > > capacity we might be bound by greater rules in >> >> > > > > > > > > > nature. >> >> > These >> >> > > > are >> >> > > > > > > > > > questions I think that arise when the suspicion of >> >> > > > > > > > > > being >> >> > led >> >> > > > > > becomes >> >> > > > > > > > too >> >> > > > > > > > > > great to ignore, fear has a corrupting influence on >> >> > > > > > > > > > that >> >> > as >> >> > > > does >> >> > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > > > > diverse symbols at our disposal provided by language, >> >> > > > corrupting >> >> > > > > > as in >> >> > > > > > > > > > coloring and distorting. But the tools of identity, >> >> > > > > > > > > > shared >> >> > > > > > language >> >> > > > > > > > and >> >> > > > > > > > > > meanings can facilitate discovery. Internal motives >> >> > > > > > > > > > can >> >> > > > present a >> >> > > > > > > > > > struggle for a clear picture, and yet without them >> >> > > > > > > > > > what >> >> > > > impetus >> >> > > > > > would >> >> > > > > > > > > > there be? Context is amazingly significant, the when >> >> > > > > > > > > > and >> >> > > > where, >> >> > > > > > I've >> >> > > > > > > > > > found. That is in part a few features of what I am >> >> > exploring >> >> > > > > > > > currently, >> >> > > > > > > > > > among the jumble. This can be intimate stuff, thanks >> >> > > > > > > > > > for >> >> > > > sharing >> >> > > > > > what >> >> > > > > > > > > > you gather. :) >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > On 10/5/2012 4:25 AM, Allan H wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Lately I have been trying to get out of this >> >> > > > > > > > > > > physical >> >> > > > concept of >> >> >> >> ... >> >> >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> >> - Show quoted text - >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> |_D Allan >> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. >> >> >> I am a Natural Airgunner - >> >> Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. > > -- > > > --
