Ron,
How does Bo's interpretation point out
trans-cultural, instead of intellect being trapped in
ones culture? I never read where Bo described his
interpretation in such a way. Is this your
interpretation of Bo's interpretation?
woods,
SA
[Ron]
> I'm not looking to make anyone happy per say, but
> understanding one
> another is a start in the direction of a general MoQ
> understanding. As I
> said before, Bo has some good points to consider
> when developing ones
> personal philosophy in regard to MoQ. The questions
> of "can we conceive
> outside of our cultural
> Understandings?" and "when we think we are thinking
> trans-culturally, or
> are we Merely rearranging our prejudices?" need to
> be viewed with the
> Understanding of how culture and intellect are
> directly involved with
> forming personal experience.
>
> Bo is not offering to change culture with a 5th
> level, in fact he is not
> Proposing a fifth at all, he is proposing a cultural
> understanding of a
> Trans-cultural concept.
> MoQ 's levels clearly illustrate that social and
> intellectual are
> separate
> Levels thus making that system outside any
> particular society
> specifically.
> Thus "taking quality off the chess board".
>
> Now if all we experience and perceive is culturally
> derived, then how
> the
> Heck does one explain and accurately use this level
> system?
> Bo's interpretation is by large Pirsigs
> interpretation only
> Bo emphasizes this quality of understanding.
> This shift is very important.
> It in no way validates a particular belief but it
> highlights a general
> understanding when viewing these concepts from a
> particular perpective.
>
> The Skutvik paradigm shift is a viable and useful
> concept to keep
> In mind when interpreting the MoQ. And it's relation
> to SOM. Or
> Any cultural understanding it is viewed from.
> -Ron
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of MarshaV
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 1:11 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [MD] Knowledge as MOQ's intellect
>
>
> Greetings Ron,
>
> Does Bo think that by adding a 5th MOQ level he's
> going to change our
> culture? Good luck!!!
>
> The English language is a very immediate link with
> my culture. It is
> structured on a s/o point-of-view. I must use it.
> But in spite of
> that, I know full well that it doesn't reflect my
> experience. There
> is definitely a mismatch happening, and it's become
> comfortable.
>
> I totally emphasize with Bo's frustration. He's
> uncomfortable with
> the mismatch. Yet I feel no compelling reason to
> adopt the SOL to
> make Bo feel comfortable. Pirsig's point-of-view
> suits me just fine.
> To me the MOQ is a better world-view that more
> accurately describes
> reality. I have never thought of the MOQ as 'just
> another
> theory'. It is the best!!! But if something comes
> along that looks
> better, I will consider it.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
> At 12:09 PM 12/17/2007, you wrote:
> >Dan and Marsha,
> >If you would allow me to interrupt, I think I have
> an understanding on
> >what
> >Bo's SOL interpretation means.
> >Bo equates SOM with the intellectual level by
> virtue of culture. SOL is
> >MOQ
> >Interpreted through SOM culture.
> >
> >Both of you are also correct by positing as Pirsig
> does, that SOM is an
> >Intellectual pattern just as MOQ when one views the
> levels outside of
> >culture.
> >When viewed within the culture (as Bo maintains
> that's all one can ever
> >do)
> >SOM is the intellectual level and MOQ can only be
> used via it's
> cultural
> >distinctions. In this interpretation MoQ is
> realized through SOM
> >cultural understanding. Since we as individuals are
> defined by the
> >culture we
> >live in,
> >Our intellect is also defined by the culture we
> live in.
> >Ideally, Pirsig generated the levels as a general
> evolutionary trans
> >Cultural paradigm.
> >But as Bo accurately points out, we can only ever
> view this paradigm
> >through
> >Our own cultural understandings.
> >This is what makes his SOL interpretation a more
> accurate appraisal of
> >MoQ concepts as it relates to our specific cultural
> understanding.
> >Because we simply can not escape our own cultural
> influences
> >Our cultural influences make up who we are and how
> we view reality.
> >Try to speak outside of culture and it is
> meaningless, therefore
> >Immediate experience is the closest culturally
> understood descriptor
> >Of a trans cultural experience.
> >And as that experience it possesses more human
> commonality than
> >That of any intellectual cultural distinction.
> >
> >-Ron
> >
> >
> > >>> Dan,
> > >>>
> > >>> What do you think of making the Intellectual
> Level subject/object
> > >>> only, and creating a MOQ level above?
> > >>
> > >>Hi Marsha
> > >>It doesn't jibe with the way I understand the
> MOQ. Like the SOM, the
> > >>MOQ is a theory, an idea, a static quality
> intellectual pattern of
> > >>value. That seems pretty simple. I see no reason
> to posit any
> > >>further levels. It only complicates matters.
> > >
> > > That's the way I see it too. Maybe if Bo's
> problem can be better
> > > understood, a better way to address it will
> surface.
> >
> >Hi Marsha
> >I notice that I often become manic about certain
> ideas and worry them
> >like an old dog worries a bone but I tend to grow
> tired after a while
> >and like the old dog let go. I admire Bo's tenacity
> but have nothing
> >more to add that would serve to change his mind.
> He's been gnawing this
> >bone for nigh on 10 years now and I am still not
> sure who he hopes to
> >convince save himself or what difference said
> convincing will make. His
> >jaw has got to be tired though.
> >
> >Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===
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