Greetings Ron, Does Bo think that by adding a 5th MOQ level he's going to change our culture? Good luck!!!
The English language is a very immediate link with my culture. It is structured on a s/o point-of-view. I must use it. But in spite of that, I know full well that it doesn't reflect my experience. There is definitely a mismatch happening, and it's become comfortable. I totally emphasize with Bo's frustration. He's uncomfortable with the mismatch. Yet I feel no compelling reason to adopt the SOL to make Bo feel comfortable. Pirsig's point-of-view suits me just fine. To me the MOQ is a better world-view that more accurately describes reality. I have never thought of the MOQ as 'just another theory'. It is the best!!! But if something comes along that looks better, I will consider it. Marsha At 12:09 PM 12/17/2007, you wrote: >Dan and Marsha, >If you would allow me to interrupt, I think I have an understanding on >what >Bo's SOL interpretation means. >Bo equates SOM with the intellectual level by virtue of culture. SOL is >MOQ >Interpreted through SOM culture. > >Both of you are also correct by positing as Pirsig does, that SOM is an >Intellectual pattern just as MOQ when one views the levels outside of >culture. >When viewed within the culture (as Bo maintains that's all one can ever >do) >SOM is the intellectual level and MOQ can only be used via it's cultural >distinctions. In this interpretation MoQ is realized through SOM >cultural understanding. Since we as individuals are defined by the >culture we >live in, >Our intellect is also defined by the culture we live in. >Ideally, Pirsig generated the levels as a general evolutionary trans >Cultural paradigm. >But as Bo accurately points out, we can only ever view this paradigm >through >Our own cultural understandings. >This is what makes his SOL interpretation a more accurate appraisal of >MoQ concepts as it relates to our specific cultural understanding. >Because we simply can not escape our own cultural influences >Our cultural influences make up who we are and how we view reality. >Try to speak outside of culture and it is meaningless, therefore >Immediate experience is the closest culturally understood descriptor >Of a trans cultural experience. >And as that experience it possesses more human commonality than >That of any intellectual cultural distinction. > >-Ron > > > >>> Dan, > >>> > >>> What do you think of making the Intellectual Level subject/object > >>> only, and creating a MOQ level above? > >> > >>Hi Marsha > >>It doesn't jibe with the way I understand the MOQ. Like the SOM, the > >>MOQ is a theory, an idea, a static quality intellectual pattern of > >>value. That seems pretty simple. I see no reason to posit any > >>further levels. It only complicates matters. > > > > That's the way I see it too. Maybe if Bo's problem can be better > > understood, a better way to address it will surface. > >Hi Marsha >I notice that I often become manic about certain ideas and worry them >like an old dog worries a bone but I tend to grow tired after a while >and like the old dog let go. I admire Bo's tenacity but have nothing >more to add that would serve to change his mind. He's been gnawing this >bone for nigh on 10 years now and I am still not sure who he hopes to >convince save himself or what difference said convincing will make. His >jaw has got to be tired though. > >Dan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >Moq_Discuss mailing list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >Archives: >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
