> [Nick previously] > Exactly. Now you getting the picture Arlo. I'm being serious. > > [Arlo] > Good, then maybe you'll come out of your haze. Answer me, by WHOSE > AUTHORITY is > the land that you claim to be yours, in fact, "yours"? Why should an invading > army recognize that claim? Why should I? Why should an Indian? You keep saying > "my land, my land, my land" and I think you teter on the edge of a revelation, > but you gotta step outta that haze.
Nick: I live here, and since I want to minimize conflict I purchased this land in the most peaceful way I know how. I didn't take a might makes right approach. I bought it peaceful in a negotiation process. > [Nick previously] > I never justified it Arlo. You lie. > > [Arlo] > So you can't justify that you own stolen property? So why do you care if you > lose it? Its full of blood, I'd think you want to do away with it. Nick: I can't change what happened in the past. If I could change it, then I would. I am alive today and I am partaking in peaceful methods of exchange. It is not my fault what people did over 400 years ago. I wasn't alive. But I know the danger of war, and that's why i advocate the NAP and the simple individual I am with little to no power I try to be cooperative with people in a civil manner and perceive where the injustices are and advocate the atrosoties. It takes a lot more people than me to end the biggest Empire this earth has historically ever recorded. With a military in over 130 countries and countries intervened upon in vast regions, I am weak to face this machine alone. I am one person. I do what I can. I know you do what you can. I can't help but point out the involuntary injustices, but I will try to take more care in how I relate to you Arlo. I am not fearful to try to talk with you, but please if you understand my intent, my open admission of what my principle action is, the NAP, then I think you can see I am only capable of pointing out what is happening now if any change is going to happen. If I could go back in time I would and change the misery's of the whole earth. I would change the misery's of all future times to come. I am trying to take the best approach to minimize conflict I know how. > [Nick previously] > If I could figure out who's land this was, the name of the person, and if all > could do it and know exactly what land was there's I would be all for it. > > [Arlo] > You know the Indians did not personally "own" land. The concept was idiotic to > them. So give it back to the tribe. I can tell you who that is, if you're > genuinely interested, but if you're gonna hide behind "tell me a name of an > individual Indian", you're just playing games. Nick: Indians owned their land. It was their territory. They fought to live and hunt in certain places. They had homes. It is only natural to have homes and live somewhere. Nomadic people lived in many places. That was their home. To invade their livelihood and home was met repeatedly with self-defense. Arlo do you really believe I can give up my land back to Indians? Where would I go? For me to have to absorb the actions of the sufferings of the past actions of humans to very painful. I do not want to harm anybody and when I acquired this land - I - acquired it peacefully. > [Nick previously] > Ah, no Arlo. It's my natural right to have property. > > [Arlo] > Ah, no Nick. Its not a "natural right". Its a civil right conferred by the > construction of our civil government. "Man" lived for tens of thousands of > years without "owning property". It is a recent, intellectual, > development. The Indians who read what you write are laughing their arses off. Nick: Ah, no Arlo. Natural rights have come down through the centuries by reasoning life. Our government wrote these down but they did not make them up. It was common knowledge that the government was even born of individuals. Natural rights are not born of the government. Only individuals themselves have natural property. Arlo you are ignorant of this history. I would drop it. I have posted a link to a paper that discusses natural rights. You would be better off reading about them instead of looking foolish in your attempts to argue something you haven't tried to learn about. And property is natural. That's why the Indians had homes and when attacked they defended their homes. It is natural to live somewhere and call it your home. > [Nick previously] > It's a basic need... > > [Arlo] > Ah, no, Nick. So close to revelation but still so far. Many people > live without owning property. It's hardly a "need". Food, water, shelter, > yes. > Property? No. Nick: Arlo. You don't even know what property is. My food, water, and shelter is my property. lol This land I bought peacefully is my property. I enjoy many activities in my yard and it is a very peaceful method to do what I do in my yard without disturbing other people. There are common areas. I go to parks. I would voluntarily hand money over to have common parks. I like parks. > [Nick previously] > Now if I knew who's property this was before it was stolen and we all got > together and did this. > > [Arlo] > I'll find out the name of the tribe tomorrow. You'll be happy to know you can > start paperwork for giving their property back to them later this week! Nick: I didn't remove them from their land. You are coercing upon me the sufferings and pains of what criminals did to these people centuries ago. I didn't harm these people. I didn't. I try to live peacefully with people. That is my effort. Don't blame me for all the ills that people enacted in the past. I didn't do it. > [Nick previously] > I don't want to be forced to do what I am willing to do voluntarily. > > [Arlo] > Again, no one is forcing you to pay taxes. You can opt out, despite your > ingenuine attempts to pretend you can't. Nick: Yes I am being forced to pay taxes. If I don't, then I am pushed off my land in a "might makes right" policy. I can't opt out. I live here and you are willing to push me off my land in your intellectual exercise because I will not pay taxes. See how coercive your conclusions are. You are saying to me, "Pay now or I will kick you off your land." I live here. I worked and peacefully bought this land. I will voluntary to pay monies for certain things in life, but you are forcing me to or else you will kick me off my land - that's your intellectual conclusion. Arlo you advocate IPC on me. > [Nick previously] > I live here Arlo. Why are you suggesting I run and hide from what I've > established here? > > [Arlo] > You're ancestors moved when they felt something better lay over the mountain. > Go for it. There is a commune in your future, you can grow your own produce, > share and barter the goods, and you'll never ever have to pay a penny in taxes > again. Nick: So you are advocating IPC against me because I believe in liberty. > [Nick previously] > Or is it because you know if I try to not be coerced here the government WILL > initiate physical coercion. > > [Arlo] > Well, sure. "Here" you are reaping the benefits of a great civil > infrastructure; roads, sidewalks, EMT and police, libraries, boating lanes, > public lands, minimum wage, workplace safety, etc., so if you stay and play, > you should have to pay. Nick: No. I can voluntary on my own free will to pay for the programs I like and find necessary. I don't need to be forced to do it. I don't need to advocate IPC upon me. It hurts. > [Nick previously] > No it's not Arlo. > > [Arlo] > Yes, it IS. Nick. Despite your ongoing insistence that "government" is some > malicious, parasitic demon, it simply is NOT. Government, "we the > people", is a > shared civil system enacted at the will of the people to provide an > infrastructure and support that could NOT be handled by private > funding. And it is GOOD. Nick: It can be handled by private funding. You throw in a strawman. I know many people if not most people wake up in the morning and work because they want to be contributing to this civil society. We don't need to be slaves and told we have to do these things. I will freely do it. I don't need a government forcing me to do anything. > [Arlo previously] > Your land according to WHO? > > [Nick previously] > Me. It's my land you idiot. > > [Arlo] > What? It's your land just because you say it is? Hoody Hoo! > Yellowstone Park is MY LAND! Nick: Did you go to Yellowstone and buy land? Did you peacefully acquire the land? Cause right now the government owns it Arlo - silly. So are you advocating that you would steal my property? What I have peacefully acquired? You are advocating dangerous things Arlo. > [Arlo previously] > Then pay your fair taxes and stay. > > [Nick previously] > Or else Arlo will shoot you with a gun. > > [Arlo] > When has this ever happened? If you don't want to pay your fair taxes, you can > peaceably leave for a commune. Nick: See how you advocate to remove me from my land where I live and put my labor into peacefully acquire. I am a simple person and you want to IPC against me unless I do what you bid me to do. Are you king? > [Nick previously] > I see your insidious plan you pervert. > > [Arlo] > Get back on the meds, Nick. Seriously. You are really coming apart. Nick: No Arlo. You are really coming apart. You want to steal my property. You advocated I do what you want or I must leave!!! You intellectual perversion. Nick -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
