Ian, Can you explain how free-will IS relevant with the MOQ?
Marsha On Aug 2, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Ian Glendinning wrote: > Steve, dmb > > I appreciate the free-will vs determinism (in the MoQ context) debate > here is overlaid with the meta-argument about whose behaviour > "maintaining a weak position" exasperates who and why ... etc. But on > the core point here: > > Steve, I side with DMB. > I can't buy your a-determinism / a-free-willist stance. > > Free-will is not irrelevant to morals in the MoQ context. > > By taking the a-stance I believe you are just denying particular > definitions of free-will and/or determinism. > > Yes, the primary DQ/sq split changes our descriptions / explnations of > what is going on, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a > relationship between will chosen by conscious thought being part of > (related to) morality - in the socio-intellectual levels of the MoQ. > (And it gives us an entirely new description in the physio-bio > levels.) > > If you deny free-will and determinism concepts outright, surely you > just re-invite a MoQish description of the (as patterns rather than > concepts perhaps) by another name. At the common sense level, > (Buddhist "as if" level) the relationship is still there ? > > Sorry if I missed your underlying point, but it is getting hard to discern. > I believed from earlier exchanges we were reasonably well aligned that > free-will and determinism need not be in conflict, if one took an > enlightened - balanced - MoQish view ? > Ian > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Steven Peterson > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hi dmb, >> >>> Steve said:... I am saying that the term "free will" has a usage in the >>> English language, and the MOQ's response to the question of freedom is >>> incompatible with this everyday usage. ... and my point is that the MOQ's >>> answer is to accept neither free will or determinism in their usual sense >>> and I'm not talking about underlying metaphysical assumptions but rather >>> the common ways that the term "free will" gets deployed in sentences. >>> ...To deny free will is to deny the uncaused causer (see also Pirsig's >>> dissolution of the mind-body problem). To deny determinism is to deny the >>> mechanistic universe. There is nothing incompatible with doing both. >>> >>> >>> dmb says: >>> Well, as I see it, you are maintaining a very weak position in the face of >>> overwhelming evidence to the contrary. > [Snip] > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org/md/archives.html ___ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
