inline On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Evan Hoff <[email protected]> wrote:
> You actually have the same problem on the non-monetary front as well. For > example, things like copyright and IP also pose an ownership gray area for > open-source projects (although this is YAGNI for 99% of them). > > What, for example, would happen if someone took the source and then decided > to violate the license commercially? Would it take an individual > committer's lawsuit to enforce the license agreement and IP of NHibernate? > > We go to the EFF, and let them sort it out. BTW, you CAN sell NH commercially, you just have to comply with the license. In general, I believe that the community response would be an effective deterrent against this, and if you are at court, you've already lost, so I don't worry about this. > I'm not saying NHibernate definitely needs a non-profit, but I just wanted > to point out the other side of the coin. > > I can, however, recommend this book (which I'm in the middle of reading): > > http://www.amazon.com/Intellectual-Property-Open-Source-Protecting/dp/0596517963 > > In addition to the IP argument, there is probably also a liability argument > (around who gets the lawsuit from a sue-happy ignoramus). And yes, I know > the license covers this, but that doesn't stop a stupid company from > attempting a lawsuit anyway. > Read the license :-) THE LIBRARY "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Now, they could try to sue, but *not* having anyone to sue is actually a good thing here. > > Just a few thoughts.. > > Evan > > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Steve Strong <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Completely agree. What we need is some form of organisation that's >> already setup to receive & distribute funds of this nature... >> >> On 03/02/2010 22:20, Fabio Maulo wrote: >> >> btw my friends... before create too much noise we should have a look to >> the past experience... >> >> For JBoss NH was not a business. >> My personal experience with iMeta-NH-Professional support is 0 (zero). >> >> Perhaps we are talking about how distribute 0U$D... so... YAGNI can be >> applied even here, No ? >> >> 2010/2/3 Davy Brion <[email protected]> >> >>> +10 >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:13 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> and sine when to donate time is different than donate money ? >>>> Wasn't Steve's time paid ? >>>> Sergej was hired (probably as Steve is a iMeta's employee), sure, and >>>> that is a little bit different than donate and receive an invoice. >>>> >>>> Suppositions: >>>> Tomorrow the XYZ company is available to pay 3 months of Richard's time >>>> to work in NH. >>>> After tomorrow the ZYX company is available to pay 3 weeks of Tuna's >>>> time to work in NH. >>>> ranlix company is available to spent 3 days of Davy's time to fix >>>> something or develop a new feature. >>>> >>>> My point is that, so far, NH have received donations directly paid to >>>> a person with a clear agreement . >>>> Everything can continue working in the same way... to manage any kind >>>> of amount, for 1U$D up, is not so easy without a real Organization behind >>>> the funds. >>>> >>>> 2010/2/3 Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> >>>> >>>>> Fabio, >>>>> IIRC, Sergej was hired by JBoss, then shortly after put to work on >>>>> other things. >>>>> iMeta's donation was of time, not money. That makes it easier to >>>>> manage. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Fabio Maulo <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What was around one year of Sergej full time development ? >>>>>> What was 3 man-moths (or even more) full time development donated by >>>>>> iMeta ? >>>>>> >>>>>> 2010/2/3 Ayende Rahien <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> Were there any donations >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Fabio Maulo >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can we take the recent past and no so recent past, of NHibernate >>>>>>>> "donations", as example of a possible funds management ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2010/2/3 Davy Brion <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> personally, i don't think the money should go to the committers... >>>>>>>>> yeah, we do work on it for free but most of us do it because we >>>>>>>>> _want_ to >>>>>>>>> work on it, not because it might someday pay some bills >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> i would vote for spending the money on infrastructure... a faster >>>>>>>>> jira server, a faster svn server, things like that... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Steve Strong >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the idea is a great one, particularly the offer to match >>>>>>>>>> donations - very kind! I do have a couple of comments - firstly, >>>>>>>>>> whenever >>>>>>>>>> money gets involved, some people have a tendency to loose sight of >>>>>>>>>> reality >>>>>>>>>> and start seeing $$$ signs in front of their eyes. Given that, I >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> suggest that we as a group define the rules for how this works prior >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> taking donations - that way, everyone (us and those donating) >>>>>>>>>> understand >>>>>>>>>> where the money is going and we don't end up in pointless arguments. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> suspect the levels of money won't be all that high, but you never >>>>>>>>>> can tell >>>>>>>>>> and knowing how it is to be distributed is important. I think we >>>>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>>>> answer questions like: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Who is eligible for the money? Any committer? Only "active" >>>>>>>>>> committers? What defines "active"? >>>>>>>>>> - How is the money split? Do all committers (however that's >>>>>>>>>> defined) get the same amount? Is it split by number of commits? >>>>>>>>>> Number of >>>>>>>>>> lines of code changed? >>>>>>>>>> - Who owns the bank account? Who has visibility of it? Is it >>>>>>>>>> available for public viewing? >>>>>>>>>> - Do we have any other needs for money other than just >>>>>>>>>> distributing it amongst individuals? Should we keep a pot for >>>>>>>>>> "NHibernate" >>>>>>>>>> activities, such as perhaps sponsoring the occasional conference? >>>>>>>>>> Hell, if >>>>>>>>>> there's enough cash we could even have an NHibernate stand! >>>>>>>>>> NHibernate >>>>>>>>>> T-Shirts & Mugs anyone?! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Secondly, I don't see why you shouldn't take a share of this >>>>>>>>>> Ayende - you have made many contributions to the project, and I see >>>>>>>>>> NHProf >>>>>>>>>> as something different. Although your *knowledge* of NH helped you >>>>>>>>>> write >>>>>>>>>> it, there was nothing about being a committer that made it possible. >>>>>>>>>> Anyone >>>>>>>>>> else *could* have written NHProf without being a committer if they'd >>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> both the idea and the ambition to take it forward. NHProf will make >>>>>>>>>> its own >>>>>>>>>> money and has its own associated costs. I don't really see the two >>>>>>>>>> (your >>>>>>>>>> commercial activity with NHProf and your altruistic activity with >>>>>>>>>> NH) are >>>>>>>>>> related. If they are, then any one of us that undertakes commercial >>>>>>>>>> NH >>>>>>>>>> consultancy or writes or contributes to an NH book etc. would also >>>>>>>>>> have to >>>>>>>>>> come under the same rules. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any thoughts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 03/02/2010 17:23, Ayende Rahien wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Guys, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am setting up a donation campaign for NHibernate. As part of >>>>>>>>>> that campaign, my company will donate 5,000$ for the project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Below is the text of the blog post that I intend to post. I would >>>>>>>>>> like to get your comments and any suggestions on how to make this >>>>>>>>>> better. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> NHibernate is the most popular Open Source Object Relational >>>>>>>>>> Mapper in the .NET framework. As an Open Source project, all the >>>>>>>>>> work done >>>>>>>>>> on it is done for free. We would like to be able to dedicate more >>>>>>>>>> time to >>>>>>>>>> NHibernate, but even as a labor of love, the amount of time that we >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> spend on a free project is limited. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In order to facilitate that, we opened a donation >>>>>>>>>> campaign<http://pledgie.com/campaigns/8615>that will allow you to >>>>>>>>>> donate money to the project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [image: Click here to lend your support to: NHibernate and make a >>>>>>>>>> donation at www.pledgie.com !]<http://www.pledgie.com/campaigns/8615> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *What is this money going to be used for?* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This money will go directly to NHibernate committers, in order to >>>>>>>>>> sponsor the development of NHibernate itself. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As one caveat of that, none of that money is going to go to me >>>>>>>>>> personally. As you are probably aware, I have my own commercial >>>>>>>>>> interest in >>>>>>>>>> NHibernate (NHibernate Profiler <http://nhprof.com/>), so I don’t >>>>>>>>>> feel I should benefit from the donations. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Donation Matching* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Moreover, my company, Hibernating >>>>>>>>>> Rhinos<http://hibernatingrhinos.com/>, >>>>>>>>>> is going to *match any donation *to this campaign (to a total >>>>>>>>>> limit of 5,000$), as a way to give back to the NHibernate project >>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>> excellent software it produced. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Why should you donate?* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you are a user of NHibernate, you gained a lot from build on >>>>>>>>>> such a solid foundation. We ask to you to donate so that we can make >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> project even better. If your company uses NHibernate, ask it to >>>>>>>>>> donate to >>>>>>>>>> this campaign. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Fabio Maulo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Fabio Maulo >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Fabio Maulo >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Fabio Maulo >> >> > > > -- > Evan Hoff > [email protected] > cell: 615.870.4302 >
