Ian - see below

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board

> On 02:39 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
> >Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components,
> >etc.).
> >
> >Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the
> >point of the copy.
> >
> >Turn the bottom layer back on.
> >
> >Make the bottom layer the active layer.
> >
> >Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and "check off" the boxes
> >the Paste Special Dialogue for "Paste on current layer", "Keep net name",
> >and "Duplicate designator", and then click on the "Paste" button.
> >
> >Hit "x" on your keyboard to flip the array.
> >
> >You will get a warning message that says "Warning: you are attempting to
> >flip a component to the same side of the board . . . ", but remember, we
> >changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board,
> >we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says "Do you
> >to continue?", click on the "Yes" button.

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> JaMi,
> I assume you did not test this.

Actually, I have now only done it 4 times, and had it work properly all four
times, from an electrical standpoint (see below).

> Issue 1) with paste on current layer turned off the entities will be
> onto their current layers.

Semantics - when I said "check off" I ment to place a check in those boxes,
I am truely sorry if this lead to any confusion. The boxes MUST BE checked
to turn those features ON.

Once that is done, the  SELECTED entities will be pasted onto THE current
ACTIVE layer (which is the opposite layer from where we selected the
entities in the first place)

> Issue 2) assuming you meant that paste on current layer a should be
> checked, this is a great way of getting the components mixed up.  Their
> graphics end up on the top layers abut the component is stated to be on
> bottom layer.  As well the component is upside down.  It would be OK if
> get the graphics to the bottom layer as well.

Very interesting phenomonin here Ian, and while there does appear to be an
initial problem with the graphics, it is not fatal.

I assume that you have written up this condition as a BUG in your bug list.
If not would you please add it now.

You correctly point out that the graphics are not as they should be, but
let's get past that for a minute.

You also correctly state that the component states that it is now on the
bottom layer, EXACTLY WHERE IT SHOULD BE, and in fact where it is.

You also correctly state that the component is now upside down, EXACTLY AS
WE WANT IT TO BE, and in fact it is correctly oriented on the bottom layer
and electrically correct.

> I would warn anybody against using the stated method without doing their
> own testing.  My testing showed it failed - as was my expectation.

I would respectfully submit that possibly you did not follow thru with your
testing as far as you should have.

As far as I can tell, at this point, your only really valid complaint is
that the "overlay" graphics are on the wrong layer, which in fact they are,
and which I would call a serious BUG, that should be corrected in SP7.

However, since it may take some time to get SP7, you may have to perform a
two part "work around" in the meantime.


Part One: After you have placed the Special Paste Array ("copy"), and before
you deselect all of the things in the "copy", select one of the selected
components, and select "Global>>", and in the global area change "Selection"
to "Same", and then select the "Designator" tab and change "Layer" to
"Bottom Overlay", and then go to the global area and set "Layer to "Same",
and then do the same on the "Comment" tab, and then hit OK. All of your
reference designators and component comments should now be where they

Part Two: After having done all of the above, you will now have to go back
to your component library and "Update" each component in the design, to get
the graphics (outline) to go where they belong.

Sorry for the BUG in the first place, but I believe that you will find that
this does in fact fix the problem.

A lot of steps?

Yeah, but it does work.

> I repeat - P99SE does not allow a board to be flipped as delivered - an
> add-on server is required (not available to my knowledge apart from Geoff
> and mine ex-attempt). DXP does better.
> (My main reason for commenting on this process is not to have a go at
> anybody but since there is an archive of this forum we do have to make
> we correct and update incorrect or untested techniques.)

Please try this again, and please follow thru and change the
edsignators/comments and update the components this time.

Yeah, it is a lot of work, and even possibly what we here in the States
would call Mickey Mouse, but what can I say, you gotta do what you gotta do
to get the job done.

Ian, please do test this further, and please do get back to us with your
findings, as there may be something else I overlooked.

Please do add this to the Bug List, as well as the "work around" list (if
there is one), and of course, now that we know that it is not impossible, we
should add it to the SP7 wish list.

Thanks for pointing out that my previous suggestion was in fact incomplete.
Now it is complete.


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