Yeah, A teachable moment was lost. Another one was made. When I consider the situation, and place myself there as best I can in my own imagination, I applaud the leader who took the bull by the horns and did a great favor for this befuddled grandpa. Chances are Drew is on the right trail now, especially if Grandpa will follow suit. This happened once on "Little House on the Prarie", also. Pretty much the same situation. BTW, I watched an episode about a month ago. I marveled at how far morals have declined since those days. Today, if you watch an episode of "Little House", you would probably consider it blatantly evangelistic. More so than most of us! ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert D Hamilton Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 9:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RR] Spank'n the sassy boy.. Regardless of the fact of what type of campout it was, I still think a teachable moment was lost. There are Christian scout leaders as well and a time to pass on mature wisdom and Christian values was lost. Robert Hamilton Let's keep one thing straight here: This was not a Ranger campout and this was not a commander who did the disciplining. It was a boy scout leader, on a boy scout campout. Not having the facts straight usually leads to confusion. ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 6:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RR] Spank'n the sassy boy.. I have to agree with Victor. There is nothing wrong in telling someone why
you want it done. However, I myself am guilty sometimes of behaving the
same way with my 11 year old daughter. I sometimes get frustrated with too
many questions and just want to be obeyed. Perhaps that was the situation
here??? We don't know the full story and the entire situation, especially
the time leading up to this event.
I also think that, as far as the commander was concerned, that a "Teachable
Moment" was lost. The commander could (and maybe should) have taken the boy
aside and in a very calming tone explained that sometimes adults should be
obeyed regardless of how we feel, and that we don't always need to know the
"why". He could have also explained that as adults, we don't always know
the "why" either. That doesn't take away from our responsility to obey
those in authority. The commander could also have used this as a witnessing
opportunity in explaining that God does not always tell us why he wants us
to do something, but just expects us to obey. Obedience leads to
opportunities to see God's hand at work, and as we obey, and as time goes
on, we will come to understand the "why" of the situation.
Robert Hamilton
TB Commander
Parker Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Victor Zalakos
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [RR] Spank'n the sassy boy..
Isn't it interesting that yet again most posts open ignore the very essence
of a post.
Duane was talking about the issue of an adult striking of whom he was not
guardian or parent. In many countries this is illegal. This is against the
discipline policy of most (if not all) Ranger groups I know of. It just is
stupid behaviour. It is asking for intervention from governemnt. It is
foolish.
Even though I know it will open the flood gates of misguided bigotry I
can't help myself asking the question - what is wrong with telling a child
why you want him to do something.
I certainly know that God didn't bless me with five slaves - but children
to bring up in the way of the Lord. The Jewish tradition (that Jesus was
brought up in) is based on questions and answers. A child asks "Why..." and
the parent or Rabbi explains. This is how knowledge and understanding and
wisdom and plain old "how to live right" is passed on from one generation
to another.
"Do it now" doesn't teach anything except fear.
If you can't offer an explanation for why you want something done - then
why ask for it to be done - just to prove you can????
There are times when it necessary to give an instruction that needs to be
delivered in a tone and manner that receives an immediate reaponse like
"get back" when a child is in immediate danger. It is in your manner or
delivery that such an instruction will be obeyed automatically. It is on
the basis of the relationship you have developed that all you instructions
will be followed. Remember - respect a better motivation than fear. We are
told to fear the Lord - not our parents or leaders.
Victor.
At 03:45 PM 1/10/2001 -0700, Ken Komoto wrote:
>This response is patently ridiculous and is exactly why we have so many
>kids who
>do not respond to authority. Since when does any adult have to give a
child a
>reason for any command? This response places the child in the position of
>authority. This is completely upside down from biblical principle which
very
>specifically states that a child should obey and reverses the Royal Ranger
>Code
>which specifies Obedience of those in Authority. God save us from those
who
>would put children in charge of the world!!!
>
>At 07:36 AM 10/2/2001 +1000, Victor Zalakos wrote:
>>The grandfather erred in my judgement by not giving the child a reason
>>for putting on the shoes - "you will cut your feet to shreds on the
>>blackberries" seems appropriate.
>>Perhaps give the instruction and explanation twice, then pick the child
>>up and remove them from the situation and the danger that lay nearby.
>>
>>Victor.
>
>============================================================
>Kenneth Komoto mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Pioneer Commander Outpost 193 Phone: (530)752-7197
>Southpointe Christian Center Fax : (530)752-0329
>Sacramento, Ca 95828
>
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