*> As long as you keep the download info fairly obscure (i.e. not put it
> on the download page but make it clear to everyone who looks for it
> where or from whom to get it), I do not see how this could harm
> RealXtend.*
This is another VERY good point.
Too many users are coming here looking for "end user" support (hand holding)
and at this point, we're still in very early Alpha stages. So there are a
handful of people here that are willing to be "Alpha Testers" (and stomach
the pains of Alpha testing), but I do agree that compiling a binary is a bit
of a pain.
I do have a machine setup specifically for compiling, but I just haven't
gotten around to downloading and compiling the latest SVN. I can do it, but
just haven't taken the time to do it (have a million other projects going at
the moment). It's not that I can't do it, but it would take a developer
about an hour or two to just run the build (while they are eating lunch),
and just post the latest binary every 2-3 weeks.
If it comes down to "resources" then I guess I'll just have to stomach the
task, and "take one for the team" and just do it myself, and post it for the
Alpha Testers.
Yes, now that Doeko mentions it, maybe posting to the RealXtend website
might not be a good idea. There are too many "new users" that might stumble
upon it, and then it would unleash a wrath of headaches (as they complain
that it doesn't work, no documentation, etc.)
So maybe I will just run the compiles, and host the binaries on a separate
page (just for Alpha testing). This way I can post a link in the forums,
and maybe we can "offload" some of the headaches from the Developers.
This way the Alpha Testers can work together, and we can help file bug
reports, and have intelligent conversation about the problems we are
facing. Then we can bring these problems back to the main development team,
and see what they have to say about it.
*>So, why not release a preliminary
>binary for this community of "pro users" (as I'll call it...) to help
>out.*
I believe this is what LC, you (and even myself) have all been thinking.
*> As long as you keep the download info fairly obscure (i.e. not put it
> on the download page but make it clear to everyone who looks for it
> where or from whom to get it), I do not see how this could harm
> RealXtend.
*
I'm going to get the source compiled, and then I'll post the binaries. I'll
try to get a page setup on one of my servers, and just post the latest
binaries for Alpha Team testers. I'll probably setup a separate forum for
Alpha Testers, and this way we are not blowing up the message lists, and the
development team can join the Alpha Team mailing list as well (if they
want). This way we can discuss Alpha Team testing (setup, configurations,
problems with latest builds, etc.) while not blowing up this list, or
bombarding everyone else with this discussion.
Yes, the mainstream will need to wait (for a stable Beta build), but the
Alpha Team can at least get in early, and just download the binaries, and
begin having intelligent discussion about the problems, bugs, and issues
that we are experiencing so that we can give good feedback to the
developers. This will help them progress, and slowly we'll get closer to a
Beta.
I know the realXtend crew is just flooded at the moment, so I'll try to
"Offload" a bit of the Community Support, and Alpha Testing. This way we
can discuss the problems, and also help with "End User" support a little
bit. This way the "End Users" are not coming to the Developer threads, and
asking "How do I setup a server" types of questions.
We can work on Alpha Testing, work on documentation, and work on world build
demos. I think those 3 things will help the realXtend team the most. These
are very time consuming things, and just not something the core development
team has time (or resources) to focus on. So let the core developers work
on getting the code written, and I'll just work on doing the compiles every
2-3 weeks (just someone send me a private E-mail every 2-3 weeks to remind
me to do a new updated build). I get busy sometimes, and as long as someone
reminds me, I can do a new build every 2-3 weeks (build early, build
often). Then we can all upgrade at the same time (so that way we are all
discussing bugs with the latest build.
So we are all on the "same sheet of music". I'll get something done this
weekend, and have something posted (with a new web page, and a new forum for
Alpha Testers) by Monday morning. Then I'll post a link here in the thread.
This way we can take our support problems over to a new area, and at least I
can freely post the Alpha builds, without disrupting any of the realXtend
core developers (and we can keep things off of the realXtend website, which
Doeko just mentioned which does sound like a good idea). I think we have
enough "Alpha Testers" here at the moment, and you really have to have some
EXPERIENCE or "be a pro" as Doeko stated, just to be messing around with
Alpha testing.
So those that are "strong at heart" and willing to do the legwork, can head
over to the Alpha Forums, but don't expect too much "hand holding" and the
Alpha Forums will be more of "bug reports" and issues with the latest Alpha
Builds. This way we can give this feedback to the core development team,
and we can also work on getting the realXtend WIKI updated from the fuscia
color, over to the green color (tested/working). We have a long way to go,
before we get from Alpha into a stable Beta, and then get into a Final 1.0
Stable release (production).
At least the "Alpha Team" can help with testing, and help with working on
"realXtend ModRex" Demo world builds. Then if we can build maybe 3 or 4
really excellent worlds (regions) just demonstrating all the key
technologies, at least we can get these posted back to the realXtend website
(for download), and also have a working "Beneath the Sea" demo that will
work with the ModRex Beta (when the Beta is finally released).
This way there will be a demo, the ModRex binary, and
instructions/documentation for new users. Plus at least we'll have a small
Community of "Alpha Users" who can help lead some of the newcomers, and at
least help/coach/teach them a bit.
This way the core development team can continue working on writing code, and
they aren't bombarded with silly and crazy questions "newbie questions" like
"How do I compile a binary?" or "How do I build a server?" or "How do I
connect to the internet?"
These questions need to be taken off of the Developer site, and be moved
over to a "Community" site (which the Alpha Team) can eventually help run.
I guess I'll take the Bull by the horns, and but this on my list of "Things
To Do" (my poor list keeps growing out of control), but it does seem to need
to get done. I believe it's the best way to move forward as a
group/community. This way we can keep the "newbie" questions off of the
Developer's thread.
Plus the Alpha Team can handle a lot of the "technical support" for the end
users and early training. Just till the Community gets large enough.
I'll try to get something built over the weekend, and I'll post something
back to the list with compiled binaries on Monday. So Alpha Testers can
sign up and can begin working on the Alpha Testing of ModRex and eventually
the realXtend ModRex Community Support, and help with the realXtend "ModRex"
demo builds.
If enough of us work together, we can get the "Beneath the Sea" demo updated
fairly quickly, and then we can begin working on maybe 3-4 demo worlds. I'd
like to see some form of "Naval Base" demo (with ships and working cranes,
vessels, etc.) then also work on an "Airport" demo (with flying aircraft,
ground support vehicles, etc.) and then also work on a "Railroad" demo (with
a working rail yard, rolling stock, and even track switches, and working
lights). Then later we can work on advanced features like an Aircraft
control tower, or Railyard control tower.
Everything will take time, but at least we can "demo" the advanced features
of RealXtend ModRex. I'll work on getting a small Community Forum setup for
early "Alpha Testers" and get the ModRex binaries built. I'll try to have
something up by Monday.
The key to "Alpha Testing" will be to test the ModRex builds, and also work
on a public demonstration of the realXtend capabilities of ModRex. Once we
have something good built, then we can just package it up nicely with a Beta
build (with some good documenation) for the end users. This is a big
project, but at least we can help take some of the load off of the core
realXtend team.
*> Thanks, I hope you understand my point of view.*
I completely understand your view. I can see where you are coming from. I
believe maybe you, I and LC can work together on early Alpha Testing, and
I'll setup a forum where people can download Alpha Team binary builds there.
At least we can begin working. Leading development teams is like "herding
cats". Developers all head in their own opposite dierctions, and we get so
busy that it's hard to worry about what everyone else is doing. So let the
core development focus on writing code, and anyone that considers themself a
"Pro" can head over to the Alpha Team Community, and I guess I'll take on
that project of working on Alpha Team testing. I'll have something built by
Monday, and I'll post a link and more information to the list by Monday.
Alpha Testing seems like the next "logical step" as we progress as a
Community.
Thanks,
Mark
On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:02 PM, [email protected] <
[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On 17 feb, 19:10, Ryan McDougall <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Mark Malewski <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > I don't think there is any case of wanting "100%" done. I have been
> > working on open source for my entire professional career, and I
> > understand "release early, release often". However I also understand
> > that at this point reX is alpha software, and alpha software isn't
> > meant for users yet. It's meant for people with the stomach for
> > downloading from SVN, compiling it themselves, and helping with bug
> > reports. The source is freely available, and building it isn't very
> > difficult compared to any other project in an alpha status.
>
> I see where you are coming from, and I partially agree. However, there
> is an amount of users that, I think, has enough technical
> understanding to set things up and could contribute bug reports.
> However, they don't have the technical knowhow to do a full compile,
> or simply not the amount of time required to figure out how to do it
> due to lack of experience. I know I am one of those people.
>
> I do not quite see what the problem is with just releasing an alpha
> binary with a huge warning sign "HEY, THIS IS NOT FINISHED!". Same way
> opensim does it.
>
> The way I understand the status of ModRex is currently, is that it
> lacks a number of features that it needs to be considered "featureful
> enough" by the REX team to be ocnsidered beta. However, in my opinion,
> the stuff that needs to work for it to be worthwhile to release for
> many people, in my opinion is simply:
> 1) not crash every 2 minutes
> 2) accept .mesh files (and collission meshes etc).
> (optional) 3) hopefully be compatible with future modrex releases
>
> It already does this and far more. So, why not release a preliminary
> binary for this community of "pro users" (as I'll call it...) to help
> out.
>
> As long as you keep the download info fairly obscure (i.e. not put it
> on the download page but make it clear to everyone who looks for it
> where or from whom to get it), I do not see how this could harm
> RealXtend.
>
> Thanks, I hope you understand my point of view.
> >
>
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