Another stat for Jacoby.... If you take into account 70 steals/12 caught stealing, you have
BA: 285 OB: 334 SLG: 468 OBS: 802 On Dec 18, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Ray Salemi wrote: > It's actually worse than Power/Speed. It's hitting speed. > > here are the BA/OBA/SLG/OPS numbers for both from last year. > > Ellsbury: > > .301 .355 .415 .770 > > Gonzalez: > .277 .407 .551 .958 > > No contest. > > Gonzalez gets on base more often and hit's the ball further. > > Ray > > PS. This is a great example of the limitations of batting average. > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Matt & Olga McSorley <[email protected]> > wrote: > We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue in > making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez: > > Power>Speed. > > -- Matt > > From: Ray Salemi <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM > Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? > > I am ashamed. > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon > people. > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > "Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase on > this list. > > And who doesn't want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an obscure > reference. Good job!) > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John <[email protected]> > wrote: > If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and say that I > dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and my point, yet > again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t someone say > that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s statiscal body size > and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. Thank God there are > scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that weight and height are not > stats? > > > How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury doesn’t > get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star Trek Deep > Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players compared to > Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a friggin triangle > and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway Park? Because of all > the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete conclusions. You’re > entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me my opinion and then > argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are only a piece of what I > use to form my opinions. I believe that others on here talk stats all the > time and I don’t use anything but stats to form their opinions. Or am I to > believe that the few people on here who think Ellsbury isn’t as good a > centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must be smarter than … say … 95% > of the fans of baseball? > > > John > > > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Salemi > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? > > > I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James any day > of the week. > > > I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him a > question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this > statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that > "he has a pretty swing." > > Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that he felt > this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He believes that > while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have thousands of > hours of experience and also know what they are talking about. > > John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier in the > thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to those of > use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and who don't > watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only remember plays that > support their opinion. > > John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but objective > counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to give way to > counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the number four > into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a Cardassian sadist). > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just > 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just > 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in Just > 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. 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