Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

[Ken Hohhof]

https://www.gocomics.com/realitycheck/2024/05/22

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 10:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

Funny, now that I think about it, back in the 1960s the school teachers had us 
learn all these protest and civil rights songs.

 

I don’t recall any parents getting upset about us getting programed by left 
wing teachers.  I guess most folks believed civil rights and Vietnam protests 
were somewhat justified.  

 

I don’t recall us having porn in the libraries though.  Sex education, what 
little there was was put off until we were 16 (for the boys and coed classes 
anyhow).  A bit too late for some of us.  Parents generally backed up the 
teachers.  Kids brought rifles to school during hunting season.  Hippy teachers 
were braless at times.  You could even smoke certain herbs with some of the 
teachers.  

 

I have fond memories of the 60s and 70s.  

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 5:12 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

Makes me think of the song Where Have All The Flowers Gone.

That's Pete Seeger though and we agreed to stay away from politics. Also kind 
of depressing. Gone to graveyards every one, when will they ever learn. I'm 
still here, but not getting any younger.

Maybe everyone is gearing up to install fiber for prevailing wage on BEAD 
projects. Will be like the gold rush.

 Original Message 
From: "Timothy Steele" 
Sent: 5/22/2024 3:54:55 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

I got the msg  

 

Even wisp talk Facebook group seems to be slowing down

 

Would be interesting to know where everyone is going 

 

On Wed, May 22, 2024, 4:04?PM Jason McKemie mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote:

Just checking to see if the list is up, I haven't gotten anything in a while.

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Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

[Ken Hohhof]

I believe the “big yellow taxi” refers to a Canadian police car, at least 
that’s one story of why it took her old man away.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@go-mtc.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 10:26 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

Gheeze, more environmental brainwashing -  I didn’t even realize it at the 
time.  I guess they laid it between the lines...

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 8:48 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

Excellent.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 8:25 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

I think it's because they paved paradise.

 

bp


On 5/22/2024 4:12 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Makes me think of the song Where Have All The Flowers Gone.

That's Pete Seeger though and we agreed to stay away from politics. Also kind 
of depressing. Gone to graveyards every one, when will they ever learn. I'm 
still here, but not getting any younger.

Maybe everyone is gearing up to install fiber for prevailing wage on BEAD 
projects. Will be like the gold rush.

 Original Message 
From: "Timothy Steele" 
Sent: 5/22/2024 3:54:55 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

I got the msg  

 

Even wisp talk Facebook group seems to be slowing down

 

Would be interesting to know where everyone is going 

 

On Wed, May 22, 2024, 4:04?PM Jason McKemie mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote:

Just checking to see if the list is up, I haven't gotten anything in a while.

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Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

[Ken Hohhof]

Excellent.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2024 8:25 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

 

I think it's because they paved paradise.

 

bp


On 5/22/2024 4:12 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Makes me think of the song Where Have All The Flowers Gone.

That's Pete Seeger though and we agreed to stay away from politics. Also kind 
of depressing. Gone to graveyards every one, when will they ever learn. I'm 
still here, but not getting any younger.

Maybe everyone is gearing up to install fiber for prevailing wage on BEAD 
projects. Will be like the gold rush.

 Original Message 
From: "Timothy Steele" 
Sent: 5/22/2024 3:54:55 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

I got the msg  

 

Even wisp talk Facebook group seems to be slowing down

 

Would be interesting to know where everyone is going 

 

On Wed, May 22, 2024, 4:04?PM Jason McKemie mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote:

Just checking to see if the list is up, I haven't gotten anything in a while.

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Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?

[Ken Hohhof]

Makes me think of the song Where Have All The Flowers Gone.That's Pete Seeger 
though and we agreed to stay away from politics. Also kind of depressing. Gone 
to graveyards every one, when will they ever learn. I'm still here, but not 
getting any younger.Maybe everyone is gearing up to install fiber for 
prevailing wage on BEAD projects. Will be like the gold rush. Original 
Message From: "Timothy Steele" Sent: 5/22/2024 3:54:55 AMTo: "AnimalFarm 
Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Is this thing still on?I got the 
msg?Even wisp talk Facebook group seems to be slowing?downWould be interesting 
to know where everyone is going?On Wed, May 22, 2024, 4:04?PM Jason McKemie 
 wrote:Just checking to see if the list is 
up, I haven't gotten anything in a while.
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Re: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting

[Ken Hohhof]

5 GHz version is V/H.

 

I believe the 3 GHz version is +/- 45 degree, although I don’t remember now if 
the SM is also.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2024 8:39 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting

 

I can’t remember, is the 450 slant polarity?

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2024 12:41 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting

 

yep, til we switch to 450 we had one customer like this. the coolest part was 
you could watch him harvest his field by his rssi. it was a perfect example 
customer. two radios about 10 feet apart on the roof, each only worked half the 
year

 

On Fri, May 10, 2024, 3:58 PM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

Way back in the early days of FSK we did a poor mans spacial diversity for a 
customer.  Put an SM on either end of his roof, and told him to switch cables 
if it stopped working.  

On 5/10/2024 3:53 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Yep, been hearing this for the last 20 years.  

Has to have something to do with ground reflections changing with the crop.  

A space diversity setup would cure it.  

 

 

From: Nate Burke 

Sent: Friday, May 10, 2024 2:34 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting

 

For those of you who don't have to deal with it, whatever it's called, this is 
what us flatlanders have to put up with.At the top of the pipe, the radio 
would only get a maximum of -76, at it's current height, it's at -59.  All 
happened last week when that hayfield grew.  Signal was fine before then, and 
it steadily lost signal all last week.  (It is LOS to the tower, the tower is 
just directly in line with the pipe in the picture)

 

  


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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Ken Hohhof]

https://soundcloud.com/double-rr-studios/first-american-bank-grandmas-pot

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2024 1:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

Id love to be on ADHD meds, but that prescription availability/price is a crazy 
risk. Folks find themselves doing wildly insane things when their meds suddenly 
cant be refilled, like butchering their family. 

 

As for the prescribed pot BS, I have found that most of the people with a 
medical card didnt get it from their primary physician, they went to a mill doc 
and got the bought card. They have all kinds of reasons why they cant use the 
non intoxicating variants. Truth is theyre simply potheads with a get out of 
jail free card who its best to find any of the other reasons you can find to 
terminate their employment. Most of these types, its not hard to find a reason 
thats not related to their dependence on a weed.

 

On Mon, May 6, 2024 at 1:34 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

People who take Vyvanse or even the generic equivalent probably wish they could 
make their own.  It ain’t cheap.

 

I thought we were now out of the 6 months exclusivity that the first generic 
gets, but the price hasn’t come down, and there are still shortages.  
Supposedly demand was up because people without any particular condition take 
it as kind of a performance enhancing drug.

 

If it works for someone’s ADHD symptoms, then you don’t want to be unable to 
refill your prescription and go back to feeling like a 4th of July fireworks 
show inside your brain.  Oddly, people with ADHD can also be somewhat autistic, 
they can go down a rabbit hole focusing on one thing for hours, but they can’t 
multitask because of all the mental distractions.  SQUIRREL!

 

Sometimes I suspect social media is giving everybody the equivalent of ADHD.  I 
have 5 things to do today.  Oh, look, Facebook.  Tiktok.  Texts.  Now where did 
the day go?

 

It makes me feel like a drug dealer selling Internet.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

After my last meth lab blew up my motor home, I quit doing it.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:07 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

I started on lisdexamfetamine recently.  My productivity is much higher.  My 
focus still drifts elsewhere, but I find I recenter on my main task more 
quickly.

 

ADHD is profoundly genetic by the way.  If your son has it then you or his 
mother does.  The current thinking is that it’s so widespread because it’s a 
survival adaptation which happens to not always fit well into the structures of 
our modern life.  A study in Kenya compared a nomadic population with a settled 
one.  The genes responsible are well known, so they could identify who in each 
population had them and compare their outcomes.  Among the settled population 
the kids with ADHD genes had worse grades in school, and the adults were less 
well nourished.  Among the hunter-gatherer nomads, the people with ADHD genes 
were more well nourished.  

 

We probably shouldn’t medicate kids for it as much as we do, but I’m saying in 
my case a little bump of amphetamine in the morning does me good.  

 

-Adam

 

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 3:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son has a 
prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not impaired, and 
it's not like he's a meth head.

That said, I can see a problem if your employee wants to smoke a joint in the 
workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And if you don't want him 
operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company would probably agree.

Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to work yet?

 Original Message 
From: "Jan-GAMs" 
Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

First I would ask for the Dr. to call me.  2nd I would suspend the employee 
until the Dr. calls me.  It could be a type of pot that doesn't impair but I 
wouldn't want to take the chance.  Third, I'd find someone not impaired and 
have them do the job.  Put the doper in charge of a broom until layoff time.

On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...

 

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

My google-foo says it can be:

Kevin

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Ken Hohhof]

nd monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes down.? 
These days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC shelf that 
has alarm monitoring inputs.?On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30?PM Ken Hohhof 
 wrote:As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should 
be sufficient.? If necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for 
this purpose.?Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up 
as an MTA rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.? 
That sounds like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe 
1999.? I don?t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a little 
contact monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.?From: AF 
 On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)Sent: 
Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PMTo: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP?Some devices can be configured to 
send an email if a contact closes, but the way this happens varies between 
devices.?My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has 
traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when to 
send the email.? I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.?? This is obviously 
easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.?? Plus you need 
additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and 24.1 and you 
have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every time it flaps to 
24.0.??? All of this was impossible to do on the older hardware just because of 
code space limitations.? ?The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the 
firmware has not yet been completed.? There is a rules engine about 3/4 built 
for the sitemonitor system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't 
know at this point.?? The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to 
provide some sort of email server resources for those who don't have an email 
system which will accept email from random devices.?On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 
2:55?PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:Not following how you are going to 
use SNMP without a monitoring system.Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact 
closure into a 1 or 0 OID that an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular 
intervals, mine mostly polls every 1 minute. But then you would typically have 
your NMS send an alert by email or text message.I tend to monitor analog 
parameters like voltage or current, then set trip points for the NMS to send an 
informative message. Like UPS input voltage at the Podunk site has been below 
the minimum value of 100 V for more than 2 minutes. Original Message 
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PMTo: "TJ Trout" , 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: chuck@go-mtc.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] 
SNMPSo how do Forrest?s products let you know of an issue?? Traps??\Would love 
to NOT have to have NMS just for this.? ??From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 
8, 2024 1:35 PMTo: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: 
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP?Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two 
voltages and temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or 
closures you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of?On Wed, May 8, 
2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:No, we have fuse 
alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm contacts.? Circuit 
breaker alarms.? That is why historically I liked the netguardian product.? It 
eats everything.? Monitors DC voltages etc.? Temps???From: Bill Prince Sent: 
Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PMTo: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP?I 
think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be some 
way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.However, SNMP as flawed as it 
might be, is the only standard that is nearly universal (because some 
implementations are better than others).?bpOn 
5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:We are needing to add some 
monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites.? In the past I 
used Netguardians.? Not sure what Forrest has.? ?Is SNMP still the defacto NMS 
comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be 
looking at???Best Regards,Chuck McCownMcCown Technology Corporation 8401 N 
Commerce DrLake Point, Utah 84074801-250-9503 Office435-830-4306 
Cellwww.mccowntech.comwww.microtrench.prowww.terabitnetworks.com?-- AF mailing 
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Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Ken Hohhof]

20 years ago we used stuff from a weird little company called BlackBox for 
remote monitoring and control.  Looks like they still exist and make kind of 
what Chuck is looking for, probably overkill though.

 

https://www.blackbox.com/en-in/products/by-technology/networking-solutions/alertwerks-iot-solutions

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 5:54 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Bash it is!

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 5:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I think the simple email alert is what we are looking for..  No NMS needed.  

 

 

 

From: castarritt 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 3:33 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

We've done stuff as ghetto as powering an old wrt54g through the alarm contacts 
and monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes down.  These 
days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC shelf that has 
alarm monitoring inputs.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient.  If 
necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.

 

Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA 
rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.  That sounds 
like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe 1999.  I 
don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a little contact 
monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but the 
way this happens varies between devices.

 

My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has 
traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when to 
send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is obviously 
easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus you need 
additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and 24.1 and you 
have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every time it flaps to 
24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older hardware just because of 
code space limitations.  

 

The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been 
completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor system, 
how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this point.   The 
email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some sort of email 
server resources for those who don't have an email system which will accept 
email from random devices.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.

Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that an 
SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls every 
1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by email or 
text message.

I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip 
points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage at 
the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than 2 
minutes.

 Original Message 
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?

 

\Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.  

 

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and temp 
and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you add a 
expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm 
contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked the 
netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.  Temps

 

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be 
some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.

However, SNMP as flawe

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Ken Hohhof]

As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient.  If 
necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.

 

Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA 
rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.  That sounds 
like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe 1999.  I 
don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a little contact 
monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but the 
way this happens varies between devices.

 

My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has 
traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when to 
send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is obviously 
easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus you need 
additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and 24.1 and you 
have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every time it flaps to 
24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older hardware just because of 
code space limitations.  

 

The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been 
completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor system, 
how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this point.   The 
email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some sort of email 
server resources for those who don't have an email system which will accept 
email from random devices.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.

Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that an 
SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls every 
1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by email or 
text message.

I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip 
points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage at 
the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than 2 
minutes.

 Original Message 
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?

 

\Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.  

 

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and temp 
and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you add a 
expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm 
contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked the 
netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.  Temps

 

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be 
some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.

However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly 
universal (because some implementations are better than others).

 

bp


On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of 
our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest has.  

 

Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff 
out there we should be looking at?

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

 


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Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Ken Hohhof]

If you don’t need to monitor more than 100 “sensors”, PRTG has a free edition.  
Note it runs on Windows (doesn’t have to be Windows Server).

 

https://www.paessler.com/howto-free-network-monitoring

 

100 sensors is not the same as 100 devices.

 

The paid versions are kind of pricey.  Based on number of sensors, and renewing 
software maintenance is 25% of the upfront purchase price annually.  They also 
have a cloud hosted version but it ain’t cheap either.

 

But if you only need to monitor a few things, and have a suitable Windows box 
sitting around, it could be a solution for you.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 3:48 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

As others have mentioned, the existing firmware in the base 3's is basically 
SNMP-polling only.  The Base 3 was built to be able to do all of the other 
items, but the whole covid supply chain pretty much killed R around here for 
a couple years other than keeping product shipping.   It has finally resumed in 
earnest, but we're still working through catching up with upstream underlying 
firmware/RTOS updates at this point so I don't know when any additional 
features will make it out the door orther than a few that we know we need to 
get out asap (SNMP writes, auto-cycling of devices based on ping or voltages, 
etc).

 

So, with the existing firmware/software you can monitor all the things you 
mentioned; you'll just need an SNMP server to do so, and it will be polling 
only.

 

If you want onboard everything, yes, there are other solutions - such as the 
controlbyweb products.   Some do this onboard, some require an external 
cloud-based solution.

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:41 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?

 

\Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.  

 

 

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and temp 
and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you add a 
expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of

 

On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm 
contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked the 
netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.  Temps

 

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

 

I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be 
some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.

However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly 
universal (because some implementations are better than others).

 

bp


On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of 
our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest has.  

 

Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff 
out there we should be looking at?

 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench.pro  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 


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Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Ken Hohhof]

Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring 
system.Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that 
an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls 
every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by 
email or text message.I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or 
current, then set trip points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like 
UPS input voltage at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V 
for more than 2 minutes. Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PMTo: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Cc: chuck@go-mtc.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP



So how do Forrest?s products let you know of an issue?? Traps?
?
\Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.? 
?


?

From: TJ Trout 

Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
?

Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and 
temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you 
add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
?

On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

  
  
  
  No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment 
  alarm contacts.? Circuit breaker alarms.? That is why historically I 
  liked the netguardian product.? It eats everything.? Monitors DC 
  voltages etc.? Temps
  ?
  ?
  
  
  ?
  
  From: Bill Prince 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
  ?
  
  I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might 
  be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
  However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly 
  universal (because some implementations are better than others).
  ?bp

  On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
  


We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts 
in one of our sites.? In the past I used Netguardians.? Not sure 
what Forrest has.? 
?
Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more 
modern stuff out there we should be looking at?
?
?
Best 
Regards,Chuck McCownMcCown Technology Corporation 8401 N 
Commerce DrLake Point, Utah 84074801-250-9503 Office435-830-4306 
Cellwww.mccowntech.comwww.microtrench.prowww.terabitnetworks.com
 
  
  
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listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

[Ken Hohhof]

These kids today with their neural implants.  In my day, we had to use our 
fingers to point and click.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2024 9:13 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

My first was a Commodore 128, which you almost always ran in C64 mode because 
most of the software was written for the C64 rather than break compatibility 
with the established user base.  I was probably 7 years old.  If anyone had a 
Commodore you may recall that the OS was a BASIC interpreter.  Remember LOAD 
"*",8,1 ?

My dad was a controls technician, and he got the Commodore because he had to 
learn how to program logic controllers in BASIC.  They still controlled 
machinery with more basic components, but digital controllers were the path 
forward because you could change or correct a process machine without rewiring 
it.  He had a book of example programs and I would type them out and run them.  
By age 9 I could do some pretty solid GOTO and GOSUB spaghetti.  In high school 
the drafting class started with pencils and then you transitioned to AutoCAD in 
the 2nd year, and then I learned LISP because AutoCAD had a LISP interpreter 
built in.  

I think in the mid 90's there was a crop of kids that grew up in a world of 
scripts and BASIC code on Apples and Commodores. DOS .bat scripts too.  When 
you wanted to hire entry level PC repair or tech support people there was this 
pool of kids who already had useful knowledge and interest.  I don't know how 
today's youth learn anything in the pointy-clicky world they grow up in, but 
I'd bet it's not so easy to hire young nerds.

I also wonder if you old guys feel the same about me.  "Spoiled kid grew up 
with high level languages.  He'll never understand digital logic like we do 
since we had to learn with paper tapes, and switches, and punch cards." 

Was there some guy from the 1930's saying "Kids these days with their punch 
cards!  They never had to place instructions on a mechanical drum computer so 
they'll never understand the sequencing and timing like we do."

-Adam

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 2:56 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

Oh yeah. My first interaction with a computer was at the local JC in northern 
Minnesota. We had a teletype that was connected to "something" 
at U of M in Minneapolis. We would punch out programs (I think in Basic or 
Fortran) onto paper tape, then feed the program through the paper tape reader 
attached to the teletype.

The first computer I ever touched was one made by Olivetti. It was a desktop 
thing roughly 2'x2', and maybe 6 or 8 inches tall. Programs could be keyed in 
through a front keypad, and stored on a magnetic card about the same size as a 
Hollerith card. Memory was very limited, I remember only about 120 or so words, 
but it had a couple dozen registers. You could sacrifice some of the registers 
to hold instructions, and stretch your program beyond 120 words depending on 
how cleverly you could sacrifice registers. The thing had 2 lights above the 
keypad, one green and one red. The green light would flash every time an 
instruction was executed (about 1 per second, except for floating point). 
Floating point instructions took several seconds each. If you did something 
illegal (like divide by zero), the red light would come on, and the program 
halted.

My bit-banging days were with a little company called EMR (Electro-Mechanical 
Research IIRC). Big ass machine maybe 20 or 25 feet long and almost 7 feet 
tall. Had core memory measured in KB (way less than 1 MB). Rather than cooling 
the core memory, it was kept in an oven that held it at a constant 50° C (or 
close to that). It took two "cards" 
to make a flip flop; each card was roughly 4x4 inches and would have either 
AND, OR, NAND, NOR gates on it. They would cross-couple a couple of NAND gates 
to make 1 flip flop. Discrete components; all diodes and transistors. When we 
repaired a problem; usually isolated to a single card, we would take the bad 
card back to the shop and replace the bad diode or transistor.


bp


On 5/3/2024 10:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> First computer I actually programmed was an altair 8080 programmed 
> with the front panel switches.
> First computer I ever touched and played with was a terminal connected 
> to a mainframe somewhere in a science museum in Oregon. It had a moon 
> lander simulator on it.
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 11:24 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction 
> Code
>
> I programmed the first computers I worked on in binary. You would 
> fat-finger instructions in through the front console, one bit at a time.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/3/2024 10:12 AM, 

Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me)

[Ken Hohhof]

Excellent point about the new TMHI “Away” plan.  Reminds me of the Netflix 
crackdown on password sharing.

https://tmo.report/2024/04/uh-oh-t-mobile-will-now-enforce-home-internet-address-eligibility/

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 12:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me)

 

I've watched her for years and she has, occasionally, some good stuff.  But on 
the whole she has gotten so into promoting what she was paid for and in a few 
cases gotten caught promoting bad products.  

 She major league jumped on board a cell internet reseller and promoted a 
really dishonest company because she didn't wait long enough for the bad to 
come out.  Then claimed innocence...  

 Well here she was again.  T-Mobile just chomped down on those people using 
T-mobile home service away from home.   If you want to do what she is 
promoting, it's now $160/month

 On _any_ cellular internet service, I say wait 1.5 years to find out if the 
provider is really going to support it or is it a bait and switch.   ATT did 
exactly that 4 years ago, even promoting the service with mobile users just to 
pull it all away after usage became too high in just over a year.  

On 5/6/24 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

https://youtu.be/XcofyNWDyao?si=0ulY_LiFcb2HlnaY

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Ken Hohhof]

People who take Vyvanse or even the generic equivalent probably wish they could 
make their own.  It ain’t cheap.

 

I thought we were now out of the 6 months exclusivity that the first generic 
gets, but the price hasn’t come down, and there are still shortages.  
Supposedly demand was up because people without any particular condition take 
it as kind of a performance enhancing drug.

 

If it works for someone’s ADHD symptoms, then you don’t want to be unable to 
refill your prescription and go back to feeling like a 4th of July fireworks 
show inside your brain.  Oddly, people with ADHD can also be somewhat autistic, 
they can go down a rabbit hole focusing on one thing for hours, but they can’t 
multitask because of all the mental distractions.  SQUIRREL!

 

Sometimes I suspect social media is giving everybody the equivalent of ADHD.  I 
have 5 things to do today.  Oh, look, Facebook.  Tiktok.  Texts.  Now where did 
the day go?

 

It makes me feel like a drug dealer selling Internet.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 12:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

After my last meth lab blew up my motor home, I quit doing it.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:07 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

I started on lisdexamfetamine recently.  My productivity is much higher.  My 
focus still drifts elsewhere, but I find I recenter on my main task more 
quickly.

 

ADHD is profoundly genetic by the way.  If your son has it then you or his 
mother does.  The current thinking is that it’s so widespread because it’s a 
survival adaptation which happens to not always fit well into the structures of 
our modern life.  A study in Kenya compared a nomadic population with a settled 
one.  The genes responsible are well known, so they could identify who in each 
population had them and compare their outcomes.  Among the settled population 
the kids with ADHD genes had worse grades in school, and the adults were less 
well nourished.  Among the hunter-gatherer nomads, the people with ADHD genes 
were more well nourished.  

 

We probably shouldn’t medicate kids for it as much as we do, but I’m saying in 
my case a little bump of amphetamine in the morning does me good.  

 

-Adam

 

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 3:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son has a 
prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not impaired, and 
it's not like he's a meth head.

That said, I can see a problem if your employee wants to smoke a joint in the 
workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And if you don't want him 
operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company would probably agree.

Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to work yet?

 Original Message 
From: "Jan-GAMs" 
Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

First I would ask for the Dr. to call me.  2nd I would suspend the employee 
until the Dr. calls me.  It could be a type of pot that doesn't impair but I 
wouldn't want to take the chance.  Third, I'd find someone not impaired and 
have them do the job.  Put the doper in charge of a broom until layoff time.

On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...

 

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

My google-foo says it can be:

Kevin
Ken
Gary
Terry

but I like Darren too.

 

bp


On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; 
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 
2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:aptos;}@font-face {font-family:tahoma; 
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal 
{margin:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, 
span.msohyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; 
text-decoration:underline;}span.emailstyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; 
font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif; color:windowtext;}.msochpdefault 
{mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt; 
mso-ligatures:none;}div.wordsection1 {page:wordsection1;} 

“I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it 
Darren?)

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] P

Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

[Ken Hohhof]

In the infamous words of former jailbird Rod Blagojevich, "I've got this thing 
and it's bleeping golden. I'm not just giving it up for bleeping nothing." 
Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 5/5/2024 6:04:13 PMTo: 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: chuck@go-mtc.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] 
DWDM/CWDM Magic







I remember the first IRU I got quoted.? It amounted to a figure equal 
to building it ourselves.? My first time hearing the term IRU too.? 



That was probably 25 years ago.? 

?

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 2:15 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic
?


>From a non-profit middle-mile 
provider we pay $42/month/fiber-mile for a lease.? Same company does a 
20-year IRU for $1000/fiber-mile.? There?s a recurring maintenance fee on 
the IRU, but it?s peanuts.?? I?m betting these prices are near the 
floor.? I don?t believe there?s a ceiling.? 
?

From: AF 
 On Behalf Of Zach 
UnderwoodSent: Friday, May 03, 2024 11:28 PMTo: AnimalFarm 
Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 
DWDM/CWDM Magic
?

We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km 
route from our data center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from 
zayo. We run 40gbps 10km optics. 
?


On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04?PM Chris Fabien 
 wrote:

  We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark 
  fiber leases,it's one of these things where every situation and provider 
  isdifferent. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile 
  andas low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what 
  theysuspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to 
  adatacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big 
  money.Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC 
  anda small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" 
  runthat can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable 
  prices.On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50?PM Darin Steffl  
wrote:>> For those 
  of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you 
  have?>> I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? 
  IRU costs, lease, swaps with other providers, etc?>> I want some 
  sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start looking at 
this 
  over wavelengths for shorter paths.>> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 
  2:50?PM Chris Fabien 
   
  wrote: Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we 
  have leased 2 strands>> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of 
  the run have 8-ch DWDM>> Muxes and we have two spots along the run 
  where we have an OADM in a>> splice case to drop out a wavelength. 
  At those points, we set a>> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, 
  and they looped the 2 strands>> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so 
  our OADM is in our case, in our>> handhole. Just be sure your 
  optical margins are planned for any>> potential add/drop points 
  because each does have some loss. On Thu, May 2, 2024 
  at 12:41?PM Mark - Myakka 
  Technologies via AF>>  
  wrote:>> >>> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 
  strands of dark fiber.? These will allow us to build a loop between two 
  points on our network.? We have been told we can also break into this 
  fiber within our loop.? I'm guessing when we break into this fiber they 
  will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole and we will be responsible 
  to figure out what we do once we cut into that fiber.>> 
  >>> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this 
  passively so we don't have to depend on having our loop run though a 
customers 
  location.? I was thinking of CWDM.? I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our 
  site and send multiple wave lengths down the fiber.? Is there a way for 
  me to break out just one wavelength at a hand hole passively?>> 
  >>> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going 
  though a hand hole and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.? Is 
  there away for me in the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.? 
  Put something like a 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 
fibers 
  into the customer site.? Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a 
  switch to preserve the loop for that one customer.>> 
  >>> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of 
  filters in the DWDM/CWDM modules?>> >>> 
  >>> >>> >>> > -->> 
  >>> > Thanks,>> >? 
  Mark? 
  mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> >>> > 
  Myakka Communications>> > www.Myakka.com>> >>> >>> 
  > -->> > AF mailing list>> > AF@af.afmug.com>> > 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
  -->> AF mailing list>> AF@af.afmug.com>> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com>> 
  --> AF mailing list> AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- 
  AF mailing 
listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Ken Hohhof]

OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son has a 
prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not impaired, and 
it's not like he's a meth head.That said, I can see a problem if your employee 
wants to smoke a joint in the workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And 
if you don't want him operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company 
would probably agree.Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to 
work yet? Original Message From: "Jan-GAMs" Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 
PMTo: af@af.afmug.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

  

  
  
First I would ask for the Dr. to call me.? 2nd I would suspend
  the employee until the Dr. calls me.? It could be a type of pot
  that doesn't impair but I wouldn't want to take the chance.?
  Third, I'd find someone not impaired and have them do the job.?
  Put the doper in charge of a broom until layoff time.

On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF
  wrote:


  
  

  Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...
  ?
  ?
  

  ?
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
  

?
  
  
My google-foo says it can be:
Kevin
  Ken
  Gary
  Terry
but I like Darren too.
?
bp

On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
  @font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:calibri;
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{font-family:aptos;}@font-face
{font-family:tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}p.msonormal, li.msonormal, div.msonormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.msohyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
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text-decoration:underline;}span.emailstyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
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color:windowtext;}.msochpdefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;
mso-ligatures:none;}div.wordsection1
{page:wordsection1;}
  
?I
have a card? = entitled Karen (I forget the name for
a male Karen, is it Darren?)
?

  
From: AF
mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
  

?

  

  I
  have always had employees that were in rehab.?
  But never had anyone using at work before this
  guy.? He pointed to the fact he has a pot card
  for anxiety.? I have a card in my pocket that
  says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I
  doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking
  a flask while working.? 


  ?


  I
  know certain prescription conventional drugs
  can make you not safe to operate equipment.?
  But this guy had to operate equipment as part
  of his job.? I would make an accommodation for
  someone that had pain meds temporarily that
  left them a bit impaired but not as an every
  day thing.? 


  ?


  This
  guy was MAX drama too.? One thing I tell
  everyone when I hire them, the only thing I
  really care about is no drama.? Do not bring

Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Ken Hohhof]

Just Ken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru1LC9lW20Q

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 1:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

Is Ken a Ken?



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 11:21:21 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

My google-foo says it can be:

Kevin
Ken
Gary
Terry

but I like Darren too.

 

bp


On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

“I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it 
Darren?)

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

I have always had employees that were in rehab.  But never had anyone using at 
work before this guy.  He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety.  I 
have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I 
doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working.  

 

I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to operate 
equipment.  But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job.  I would 
make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that left them 
a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.  

 

This guy was MAX drama too.  One thing I tell everyone when I hire them, the 
only thing I really care about is no drama.  Do not bring your drama to work.  

 

 

 

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment

 

On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18 AM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:

I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in someone’s 
work schedule.  

…..which I would do anyway.  If they’re working on getting straight I don’t 
want to stand in their way.  I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for pot 
though.  Probably not.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..

 

"Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the use of 
medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have policies 
restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or employees."

 

There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that 
marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.

 

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow them 
to partake at work.

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

[Ken Hohhof]

Some things we think as "new" aren't so new.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/telemedicine-predicted-in-1925-124140
942/


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 12:24 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

I programmed the first computers I worked on in binary. You would fat-finger
instructions in through the front console, one bit at a time.

bp


On 5/3/2024 10:12 AM, Larry Smith via AF wrote:
> On Fri May 3 2024 11:37, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> At least I am not older than FORmula TRANslation or Common Business 
>> Oriented Language.
> Hmmm, I programmed in both
>

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

[Ken Hohhof]

Haha, I see in my bookshelf a Fortran 90 book and a CD for DIGITAL Visual
Fortran.  I think it was Fortran IV that we used in school, had to submit
decks of punch cards and wait for the printout.  You learned to code
carefully when the turnaround time was several hours.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 11:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

 

I am older than Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code

Damn.  

At least I am not older than FORmula TRANslation or Common Business Oriented
Language.  

 

That would make me Really Old... ;-)  

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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Ken Hohhof]

“I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it 
Darren?)

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

I have always had employees that were in rehab.  But never had anyone using at 
work before this guy.  He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety.  I 
have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I 
doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working.  

 

I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to operate 
equipment.  But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job.  I would 
make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that left them 
a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.  

 

This guy was MAX drama too.  One thing I tell everyone when I hire them, the 
only thing I really care about is no drama.  Do not bring your drama to work.  

 

 

 

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment

 

On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18 AM mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:

I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in someone’s 
work schedule.  

…..which I would do anyway.  If they’re working on getting straight I don’t 
want to stand in their way.  I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for pot 
though.  Probably not.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot

 

Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..

 

"Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the use of 
medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have policies 
restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or employees."

 

There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that 
marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.

 

On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow them 
to partake at work.

Sent from my iPhone

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  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Ken Hohhof]

More like 3 inches.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:03 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

“crap job on the aerial drop (too close to electrical service entrance wires) 
but I was tired of arguing”

 

Hopefully 40” or greater.  A cable guy in the NY Hudson Valley area was 
literally incinerated by a power line a couple weeks ago.  The 40” clearance 
rule is there for a serious frickin reason.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 5:45 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

Business installs can get crazy with the number of subs who just do one thing.

 

And if you ordered a static IP or block or want help setting up the “gateway”, 
the guy who basically just plugs in the modem doesn’t know anything about that, 
he tells you to call customer support.

 

I got Comcast cable Internet at my house replacing RCN (they really suck bigly) 
and they just sent one guy but he just had a regular passenger car with a 
ladder on top.  I kept trying to tell him no that wasn’t the Comcast drop cable 
it was the RCN cable and I hadn’t cancelled them yet so no he couldn’t just 
steal it.  The 20 year old Comcast cable was all rotten and he was going to 
have to run a new one.  He still cut the RCN cable and I made him splice it 
back.  I knew that Comcast was the old Jones Intercable and they were below the 
power wires on the poles and RCN was the old Americast which was below the 
Comcast cables,  but he didn’t seem to know that.  Or else he was just being 
lazy and trying to avoid running a new drop.  He still IMHO did a crap job on 
the aerial drop (too close to electrical service entrance wires) but I was 
tired of arguing.  The Comcast 2 Gbps service however has been flawless.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 4:10 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

It’s pretty common to have drop cable teams separate from the house install 
teams.  I think the reasoning is you can subcontract drop cables, but you want 
to keep the customer facing piece in house.  The other reason is a customer 
doesn’t need to be home for the drop cable to get done, so you don’t have to 
schedule that with them.

  

I can see having a sub who does the aerial part of a drop and another sub who 
does an underground portion, and then your in-house installer comes in to hang 
the NID on the house and run a cable in to the CPE.  That’s about the maximum 
number of ways I can see it logically divided up.  How many steps could Comcast 
have? 

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 2:09 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

>From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no other 
>choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a different 
>crew to do every micro-step of an installation.

 

bp


On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss leader 
service.  

 

He lasted a couple months.  

 

He said their customer service is non existent.  

 

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SPAM*** ***SPAM******SP

[Ken Hohhof]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 5:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** 
***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** 
***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** 
***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM**SPAM*** ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re

 

***SPAM*** ***SPAM***

 

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:28 PM mailto:fiber...@mail.com> 
> wrote:

Revenue bonds aren't paid out of the general fund.


Jared

> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 
> From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >
> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt 
> funded fiber - Utopia
>
> Bonds are paid (usually, unless specified differently when they were 
> issued) out of general revenue funds. If the  funds used to pay bonds 
> take away enough, the services get compromised, reduced, or not funded 
> at all.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 4/27/2024 9:33 AM, fiber...@mail.com <mailto:fiber...@mail.com>  wrote:
> > I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from services 
> > that really matter to the public.
> >
> >
> > Jared
> >   
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024
> > From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> >
> > To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'"  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
> >
> > Everything’s political now, of course.
> >   
> > But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks 
> > cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services 
> > that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, 
> > water and sewer.”
> >   
> > In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer 
> > expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the 
> > space program.  Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the 
> > moment that takes precedence over all the other broken things that we might 
> > wish government to fix.  I sometimes wonder why Internet?  Maybe because it 
> > seems easy and gives people the power to hand out billions of dollars.  
> > Could they cure cancer or get lead out of drinking water or fix all the 
> > deteriorating bridges with something like a BEAD program?
> >   
> > Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a future 
> > where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of those 
> > other things.  Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama.
> >   
> >
> > From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
> > Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
> > To: Josh Luthman  > <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
> > Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ; John Brewer  > <mailto:n7...@me.com> >
> > Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
> >   
> >
> > I am surprised they have never broke even.
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> >   
> >
> > From: Josh Luthman
> >
> > Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
> >
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
> > [mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> ]
> >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
> >
> >   
> >
> > Article: 
> > https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/]
> >  
> > <https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/%5Bhttps:/www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/%5D>
> >  
> >
> >   
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> [mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> > ]> wrote:
> > By John Dougall
> >
> > For the Deseret News
> >
> > Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
> > government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by

Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Ken Hohhof]

So do customers try to repair fiber cuts with wire nuts?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 1:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

And along comes the 12 year-old neighbor kid to mow the lawn.

On 4/29/24 15:24, Ken Hohhof wrote:

The lay it in the crack guy was there. The kick dirt on it guy comes next week. 
Maybe Steve can be that guy.

 Original Message 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Sent: 4/29/2024 5:14:21 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

p { margin: 0; } 

Sometimes it's not even that. I literally did see a drop that was just laid 
into a crack in the dirt. No effort was done to cover it.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Steve Jones"  <mailto:st...@togservice.com> 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 

Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 4:50:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

I want to do drops for metronet. just kick dirt on the fiber. 

 

On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:29?PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

MetroNet does the same thing.



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Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 1:09:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

>From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no other 
>choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a different 
>crew to do every micro-step of an installation.

 

bp


On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss leader 
service.  

 

He lasted a couple months.  

 

He said their customer service is non existent.  

 

 






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Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Ken Hohhof]

The lay it in the crack guy was there. The kick dirt on it guy comes next week. 
Maybe Steve can be that guy. Original Message From: "Mike Hammett" 
Sent: 4/29/2024 5:14:21 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] Won Onep { margin: 0; }Sometimes it's not even that. I literally did 
see a drop that was just laid into a crack in the dirt. No effort was done to 
cover it.-Mike HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet 
ExchangeThe Brothers WISPFrom: "Steve Jones" To: 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Monday, April 29, 
2024 4:50:38 PMSubject: Re: [AFMUG] Won OneI want to do drops for metronet. 
just kick dirt on the fiber.?On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:29?PM Mike Hammett 
 wrote:MetroNet does the same thing.-Mike 
HammettIntelligent Computing SolutionsMidwest Internet ExchangeThe Brothers 
WISPFrom: "Bill Prince" To: af@af.afmug.comSent: Monday, 
April 29, 2024 1:09:01 PMSubject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

  

  
  
From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who
  have no other choice), their installations are "divide an conquer.
  They send out a different crew to do every micro-step of an
  installation.


bp

On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via
  AF wrote:


  
  

  Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G
$25/ month loss leader service.? 
  ?
  He lasted a couple months.? 
  ?
  He said their customer service is non existent.? 
  ?
  ?

  
  
  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Ken Hohhof]

Business installs can get crazy with the number of subs who just do one thing.

 

And if you ordered a static IP or block or want help setting up the “gateway”, 
the guy who basically just plugs in the modem doesn’t know anything about that, 
he tells you to call customer support.

 

I got Comcast cable Internet at my house replacing RCN (they really suck bigly) 
and they just sent one guy but he just had a regular passenger car with a 
ladder on top.  I kept trying to tell him no that wasn’t the Comcast drop cable 
it was the RCN cable and I hadn’t cancelled them yet so no he couldn’t just 
steal it.  The 20 year old Comcast cable was all rotten and he was going to 
have to run a new one.  He still cut the RCN cable and I made him splice it 
back.  I knew that Comcast was the old Jones Intercable and they were below the 
power wires on the poles and RCN was the old Americast which was below the 
Comcast cables,  but he didn’t seem to know that.  Or else he was just being 
lazy and trying to avoid running a new drop.  He still IMHO did a crap job on 
the aerial drop (too close to electrical service entrance wires) but I was 
tired of arguing.  The Comcast 2 Gbps service however has been flawless.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 4:10 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

It’s pretty common to have drop cable teams separate from the house install 
teams.  I think the reasoning is you can subcontract drop cables, but you want 
to keep the customer facing piece in house.  The other reason is a customer 
doesn’t need to be home for the drop cable to get done, so you don’t have to 
schedule that with them.

  

I can see having a sub who does the aerial part of a drop and another sub who 
does an underground portion, and then your in-house installer comes in to hang 
the NID on the house and run a cable in to the CPE.  That’s about the maximum 
number of ways I can see it logically divided up.  How many steps could Comcast 
have? 

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 2:09 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One

 

>From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no other 
>choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a different 
>crew to do every micro-step of an installation.

 

bp


On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss leader 
service.  

 

He lasted a couple months.  

 

He said their customer service is non existent.  

 

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun

[Ken Hohhof]

Always need some dynamite on hand in case of Graboids.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 10:47 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun

"Controlled Explosion"   Hopefully _after_ having been removed from the 
house

On 4/29/24 7:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> FROM: News of the Weird
>
> Boom!
> In Holladay, Utah, authorities were summoned to a home on April 23 to 
> advise a homeowner on how to dispose of “a lot” of explosives, 
> including “ancient dynamite” that had been in the family for 
> “generations and generations.” Capt. Tony Barker of the Unified Fire 
> Authority said the collectors did not appear to have malicious intent.
> KUTV reported that multiple agencies descended on the home, where it 
> was determined that they would have to conduct a controlled explosion.
>
> Of course, that's just EAST Utah. Right Chuck?
>


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Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Ken Hohhof]

There's also "sunk funds syndrome" (aka good money after bad) and a dose of 
"too big to fail".

 Original Message 
From: "Bill Prince" 
Sent: 4/27/2024 2:57:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia

Bernie Madoff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff

bp


On 4/27/2024 12:47 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> But I think UTOPIA is supposed to be making the bond payments itself. 
> The real question is where does the money come from to cover the 
> shortfall each year.  The only other source of money they have is 
> signing up new cities. If that is how they operate they will 
> eventually run out of new cities in Utah.  I think they are coming 
> close to running out now.
>
> Anyone know how to spell PONZI...
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 1:38 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: 
> ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>
> Bonds are paid (usually, unless specified differently when they were
> issued) out of general revenue funds. If the  funds used to pay bonds
> take away enough, the services get compromised, reduced, or not funded
> at all.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 4/27/2024 9:33 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
>> I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from 
>> services that really matter to the public.
>>
>>
>> Jared
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
>> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - 
>> Utopia
>>
>> Everything’s political now, of course.
>>   But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband 
>> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away 
>> from services that really matter to the public — services such as 
>> police and fire, roads, water and sewer.”
>>   In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at 
>> taxpayer expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway 
>> system, the space program.  Now apparently high speed Internet is the 
>> thing of the moment that takes precedence over all the other broken 
>> things that we might wish government to fix.  I sometimes wonder why 
>> Internet?  Maybe because it seems easy and gives people the power to 
>> hand out billions of dollars.  Could they cure cancer or get lead out 
>> of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with something 
>> like a BEAD program?
>>   Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to 
>> a future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need 
>> any of those other things.  Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in 
>> Futurama.
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
>> To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave 
>> Users Group 
>> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>>
>> I am surprised they have never broke even.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Luthman
>>
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
>>
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com[mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com]
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>>
>>
>> Article: 
>> https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> mailto:af@af.afmug.com]> wrote:
>> By John Dougall
>>
>> For the Deseret News
>>
>> Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
>> government services and stay out of enterprises that are better 
>> performed by
>> the private sector.
>>
>> Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more 
>> governments
>> are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous
>> private-sector providers being available.
>>
>> The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and
>> taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned 
>> broadband
>> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from
>> services that really matter to the public — services such as police and
>> fire, roads, water and sewer.
>>
>> Two unfortunate examples

Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Ken Hohhof]

I am not from Utah and don't understand how UTOPIA is financed. Doing some 
Google searches, I am still in the dark.

But while revenue bonds would not take funds away from other govt services, it 
doesn't seem like that's the case. I saw several references to additional debt 
and municipalities pledging sales tax revenues to prop up UTOPIA.

I was actually thinking more of federal grant programs like CAF, RDOF and BEAD.

And philosophically I like the UTOPIA model of public infrastructure used by 
any and all service providers. Sounds like it hasn't worked all that well in 
practice though.

 Original Message 
From: "Bill Prince" 
Sent: 4/27/2024 2:57:40 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia

Bernie Madoff

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff

bp


On 4/27/2024 12:47 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> But I think UTOPIA is supposed to be making the bond payments itself. 
> The real question is where does the money come from to cover the 
> shortfall each year.  The only other source of money they have is 
> signing up new cities. If that is how they operate they will 
> eventually run out of new cities in Utah.  I think they are coming 
> close to running out now.
>
> Anyone know how to spell PONZI...
>
> -Original Message- From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 1:38 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: 
> ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>
> Bonds are paid (usually, unless specified differently when they were
> issued) out of general revenue funds. If the  funds used to pay bonds
> take away enough, the services get compromised, reduced, or not funded
> at all.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 4/27/2024 9:33 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
>> I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from 
>> services that really matter to the public.
>>
>>
>> Jared
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
>> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - 
>> Utopia
>>
>> Everything’s political now, of course.
>>   But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband 
>> networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away 
>> from services that really matter to the public — services such as 
>> police and fire, roads, water and sewer.”
>>   In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at 
>> taxpayer expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway 
>> system, the space program.  Now apparently high speed Internet is the 
>> thing of the moment that takes precedence over all the other broken 
>> things that we might wish government to fix.  I sometimes wonder why 
>> Internet?  Maybe because it seems easy and gives people the power to 
>> hand out billions of dollars.  Could they cure cancer or get lead out 
>> of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with something 
>> like a BEAD program?
>>   Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to 
>> a future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need 
>> any of those other things.  Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in 
>> Futurama.
>>
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
>> To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave 
>> Users Group 
>> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>>
>> I am surprised they have never broke even.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Luthman
>>
>> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024
>>
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com[mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com]
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
>>
>>
>> Article: 
>> https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/]
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> mailto:af@af.afmug.com]> wrote:
>> By John Dougall
>>
>> For the Deseret News
>>
>> Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential
>> government services and stay out of enterprises that are better 
>> performed by
>> the private sector.
>>
>> Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more 
>> governments
>> are building government-owned internet networks, despite numero

Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

[Ken Hohhof]

Everything’s political now, of course.

 

But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks cost 
millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really 
matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and 
sewer.”

 

In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer expense 
like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the space program.  
Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the moment that takes 
precedence over all the other broken things that we might wish government to 
fix.  I sometimes wonder why Internet?  Maybe because it seems easy and gives 
people the power to hand out billions of dollars.  Could they cure cancer or 
get lead out of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with 
something like a BEAD program?

 

Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a future 
where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of those other 
things.  Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 5:38 PM
To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users 
Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer 
Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

 

I am surprised they have never broke even.  

 

 

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 4:02 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia

 

Article: 
https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/

 

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

By John Dougall

For the Deseret News

Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential 
government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by 
the private sector.

Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments 
are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous 
private-sector providers being available.

The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and 
taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband 
networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from 
services that really matter to the public — services such as police and 
fire, roads, water and sewer.

Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here 
in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA.

In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to 
homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring 
service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the city’s 
telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to finance 
the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo 
was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale, and 
iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free 
itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google for 
$1.

Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was 
launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities. 
But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades now. 
The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three to 
four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is 
UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of debt. 
And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand.

For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover 
those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues to 
expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that 
UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into 
the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no 
cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate.

As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My office 
investigated this and other claims, then we wrote a letter identifying these 
inaccurate statements. We instructed UTOPIA to do the following:

•Discard or destroy marketing materials with misleading statements.

• Ensure future communications more accurately reflect the dependence on 
taxpayer support.

•Take steps to remedy the misrepresentations regarding the lack of taxpayer 
support to any individual or entity that received the inaccurate 
information.

UTOPIA’s shortcomings do not stop there, however. Rather than providing 
internet access to the more than 40,000 homes and small businesses that lack 
internet access today, UTOPIA, like other government-owned networks, builds 

Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Ken Hohhof]

Sometimes I wonder if 50% DoD is really 50%.

 

At least with AGMs, once the battery voltage gets to 42V (or 10.5V per 
battery), the curve always seems to be accelerating downward.  My gut tells me 
that without an LVD, if we got 8 hours runtime to 42V, the batteries would be 
dead in more like 2 to 4 more hours.  I’ve never actually tried that though.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 4:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

 

Not to mention you get twice the capacity because lifepo4 can take 0% depth of 
discharge without damage

 

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 1:26 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I've been an AGM guy, but the last quote we did, it was about $777 for just the 
AGMs and $900 for LiFePO4 with everything in a neat and tidy rack-mount box.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> >
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 2:01:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

I tend toward a minimum of AC/DC power supplies, and fuse blocks or DC breakers 
for the loads. But the other network engineer I work with prefers a dedicated 
PSU for each load. So you may not get a uninamous recommendation.

Note I tend toward DC sites and other guy sees that as unnecessary expense and 
hardware. So if you are doing AC sites, maybe don't listen to me.

And I'm still using AGM batteries while all the cool kids are using LiFePO4 
with BCMs, so definitely don't listen to me.

 Original Message 
From: "Steve Jones" 
Sent: 4/26/2024 1:49:48 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120 and 350 
watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.

 

One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space providing for a 
total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts for the DC direct 
powered stuff, not the other 300w or so

 

Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever equipment. 
Big PSU/rectifier for all?

Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base 
providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for reasons 
and all electronics are up top. 

 

 


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Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Ken Hohhof]

I tend toward a minimum of AC/DC power supplies, and fuse blocks or DC breakers 
for the loads. But the other network engineer I work with prefers a dedicated 
PSU for each load. So you may not get a uninamous recommendation.Note I tend 
toward DC sites and other guy sees that as unnecessary expense and hardware. So 
if you are doing AC sites, maybe don't listen to me.And I'm still using AGM 
batteries while all the cool kids are using LiFePO4 with BCMs, so definitely 
don't listen to me. Original Message From: "Steve Jones" Sent: 
4/26/2024 1:49:48 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: [AFMUG] DC 
power supplies in parallelI have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power 
supplies mostly? 120 and 350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish?and 
some 108wattish.One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space 
providing for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts 
for the DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or soWhats the consensus on 
an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for 
all?Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base 
providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for reasons 
and all electronics are up top.?

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[AFMUG] OT - robot flamethrowing dog

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm sure someone here wants one of these.

Maybe for de-icing solar panels.

Or when it's taking too long for 900 MHz to kill your evergreens.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/23/thermonator-flamethrowing-robot-
dog-shoot-fire/

 

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Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Ken Hohhof]

Surprising Tesla wasn’t able to fix the Cybertruck accelerator pedal problem 
with an over-the-air software update and had to use a rivet.  I guess it’s like 
the oops with the Hubble telescope.  Sometimes only a hardware fix will do.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 11:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

 

Had to send him to Japan.  He was the guy that used the GOTO in a C program.  I 
told him to NEVER use a GOTO.  But he did.  GOTO in C does not mind the stack.  

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 10:22 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

 

Yeah, that was an awesome fix.  Super brilliant folks working on it.  

 

I once shipped 2000 units of a product that had a software glitch.  Stack 
overflow after 32 operations.  It was OTP ram based MCU.  Expensive buggers.  I 
tried so hard to find a bit to burn to change an op code to cause a jump to 
unused memory to vector around the problem.  I totally failed.  Send an 
employee with 2000 chips to change.  I am wholly appreciate what they 
accomplished.  

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:14 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

 

On a related note, Voyager 1 is talking to us again.  Yay, VGER!

https://gizmodo.com/nasa-voyager-probe-making-sense-months-gibberish-1851427197

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

 

thats what we install at everybodies house

 

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2

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Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Ken Hohhof]

On a related note, Voyager 1 is talking to us again.  Yay, VGER!

https://gizmodo.com/nasa-voyager-probe-making-sense-months-gibberish-1851427197

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

 

thats what we install at everybodies house

 

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2

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Re: [AFMUG] Bard

[Ken Hohhof]

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 10:44 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Bard

 

(ii) b + ! (ii) b

 

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Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Ken Hohhof]

Probably many years since anyone referred to an attractive woman as a dish. It 
was a high compliment, you could say to a friend your wife's a real dish. Like 
saying she's a real catch, or dude you married up. I once worked with someone 
nicknamed Trish the Dish.Now back to your scheduled RF related programming. 
Original Message From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: 4/21/2024 1:58:02 PMTo: 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big 
antennaThis???https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0205873/On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 
1:06?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:







?The Dish?
?
Great factual 
comedy that blends Apollo 11 and antennas.? 


?

From: Ken 
Hohhof 
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:24 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
?


https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2


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[AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Ken Hohhof]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2

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Re: [AFMUG] Killer 900MHz?

[Ken Hohhof]

No, although sometimes I wish it could happen, so we could clear out the RF 
path without a chainsaw.

 

I look at the photo and see a vent, some garbage cans, the electrical service 
entrance, some suspicious white stuff on the ground, but it has to be the smart 
meter that is killing the evergreen.  Even though the 900 MHz chip probably 
only transmits when polled.  And it couldn’t possibly be the cold wind or dogs 
peeing on the evergreen or they didn’t water it during a drought.

 

Probably this person posted the photo while holding their phone half an inch 
from their brain.  Remember the viral photo of cellphones making popcorn pop?  
(fake of course)

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of David Hannum
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2024 11:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Killer 900MHz?

 

I know that needles really absorb 900mhz, but could this happen?  I can't see 
it at legal ERIP levels?  What do you engineers say?

 

Dave

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Re: [AFMUG] Friday Funny

[Ken Hohhof]

That happens more and more.  People call because some app alerts them on their 
phone that their home Internet is down.  Like their Ring doorbell app.

 

It’s the residential equivalent of the hell I used to go through on business 
accounts through DSR.  Like, on a Sunday night.

DSR:  This is the helpdesk for , we show our site in  down.

Me:  There are storms in our area, does your site have power?

DSR:  I don’t know.

Me:  Do you have a contact number for someone on site I can talk to?

DSR:  I don’t know.

Me:  If I dispatch out, can someone meet our tech at the site?

DSR:  I don’t know.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2024 3:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Friday Funny

 

My internet is down.

 

Do you have power?

 

IDK

 

FML

 

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 10:57 AM Nate Burke mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

Customer's equipment at a farm went down last evening.  Sent the Mom 
from across the driveway over this morning to check power. She found 
basement was damp and a GCFI was tripped.  Reported back later "Found 
out toddler had overflowed the tub last night"

Always exciting when a definitive cause is found.



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Re: [AFMUG] 45 Degree Pipe to Pipe Clamp

[Ken Hohhof]

Sitepro1 has a tieback mount called PUCK. Something like that?


 Original Message 
From: "Nate Burke" 
Sent: 4/8/2024 3:48:57 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: [AFMUG] 45 Degree Pipe to Pipe Clamp

Has anyone seen a 45 degree pipe to pipe clamp.  Similar to this, but at 
45 instead of 90. 
https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/SSCK%20(Assembly).pdf

I'm looking to put a vertical pipe on a lattice tower, but the 
horizontal mounts are 20' apart at the spot I need.  There is a 
horizontal and angled cross member close together I could mount to, if I 
could find a 45 clamp.  I just need a pipe to get a 2' Dish mounted.  
I'm trying to avoid going around the 9" diameter tower leg just for a 2' 
dish.


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Re: [AFMUG] LiFePO4 question again

[Ken Hohhof]

I wouldn’t go so big with the charger/rectifier that you can’t run it off a 
portable generator if necessary, accounting for both load power and recharging 
the batteries.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 3:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] LiFePO4 question again

 

How much load? meanwell drs-480-48 are pretty good, if you need bigger than 
10a/480w you can parallel or go to ICT or used eltek j series on ebay, which 
can be programmed for the correct voltage..

 

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 1:13 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

LifePowers have a BMS.   But most people power them with a LFP designed 
charger to get the power into them much faster than a regular power supply.

On 4/5/24 12:13 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> You will need a BMS unless the battery has one built in.  If it does, 
> a regular telco rectifier will do the job.
>
> -Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
> Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 10:58 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com  
> Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies
> Subject: [AFMUG] LiFePO4 question again
>
> I'm finding hard to pass up just getting a 100ah 48v LiFePO4 rackmount 
> battery.  I have a new fiber system that will need a maximum of 3kw 
> once it is maxed out over the years.  This seems like an easy and 
> clean battery solution.
>
> Question is how do I power the system from the AC side on a daily 
> basis and keep the battery charged.  The normal rectifier way seems to 
> be a bit lacking in LiFePO4 support.
>
> I can get a EG4 Chargeverter 48V 100A Battery Charger that looks like 
> it would do the job.  Not sure if this thing is designed to run 24/7 
> at load or if it is designed for intermittent loads to just charge 
> batteries.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -- 
>
> Thanks,
> Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com  
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com  
>
>


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-- 

Thank you,

 

TJ Trout

Volt Broadband

209.480.3122 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] Crown Castle Tower Experience

[Ken Hohhof]

I bought a WISP in 2005 that had a lease on a Pinnacle tower, I forget if they 
had already been acquired by Crown Castle at that point, or if that came 
shortly therafter.  Anyway, my experience would be over 15 years old.  FWIW, 
here’s what I learned:

 

a)  If you want to make any changes that involve the contract, you need to talk 
to their legal department, not sales or operations or engineering or anybody 
else.  So in my case the tower had grounding problems and I wanted to cancel, 
it didn’t matter that I had complained to sales and asked to cancel.  Legal 
accommodated me, but only from the point in time I contacted them.

 

b)  All communications should be in writing via postal mail, don’t send emails 
or rely solely on verbal communication.  I don’t remember if certified or 
return receipt was necessary, but it wouldn’t be a bad idea.  When dealing with 
legal departments, hardcopy or it didn’t happen.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2024 4:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Crown Castle Tower Experience

 

We have a contract for vertical space on a Crown Castle tower.  5 year.  WUW?

 

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 4:11 PM Paul McCall via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I am looking to talk to some WISPs privately that have had long-term Crown 
Castle (ex Global Signal, ex Pinnacle towers) contracts.

 

We have a legal concern and I want to get some confidential input from guys 
that worked with them long term.

 

Feel free to contact me privately if you can chat.

 

Thanks!

 

Paul

 

 

Paul McCall, President 

Florida Broadband / PDMNet

658 Old Dixie Highway

Vero Beach, FL 32962

772-564-6800

 

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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP 3000 Vs 4500

[Ken Hohhof]

https://community.cambiumnetworks.com/t/epmp4500-ap-8x8-backwards-compatibility/96599
if that helps

sounds like it's partly an 802.11ac to 802.11ax compatibility issue

I also seem to remember someone explaining to me that the 4500 was designed as 
8x8 to get maximum sector capacity with a limited channel width, whereas the 
4600 is aimed more toward using wide channels in 6 GHz to get the capacity.  
From that perspective, 4600 would also be better for single customer 
throughput, but again assuming you are using 6 GHz.  (or somehow have 80 MHz of 
clear 5 GHz spectrum)

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2024 9:32 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] EPMP 3000 Vs 4500

I was wondering if anyone has some real world results from changing
EPMP3000 to EPMP 4500.  I'm starting to get equipment for our site builds this 
summer, and am looking at the price difference between 3000 vs 4500 trying to 
decide which route to go.  I don't do high density deployments, so maxing out 
capacity on a sector is not a concern. Throughput to the Subscriber is more 
important.  Can I get higher throughput to individual Subscribers with 4500 
than I can with 3000?

Would it need to be a 4500AP and 4500SM, or would there be a noticeable 
throughput increase from a 4500AP to a F300 SM (Future Support)?  I'm guessing 
my EPMP1000 SM's are EOL from talking to a 4500AP if I wanted to upgrade a site.

I'm guessing this was all covered at sessions during the WISP show, but 
unfortunately I couldn't attend.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder

[Ken Hohhof]

Not being a welder, I always forget the different between MIG and TIG welding.  
I think I saw a demo on a Motor Trend channel show once (don’t laugh, I think 
it was Jessi Combs on All Girls Garage).  So I just went and found a pretty 
good Youtube video some guy did.  Seems like MIG welding means less warpage and 
lots more sanding.

 

But my takeaway is for someone like me who lacks the skill and steady hands for 
TIG welding, don’t even consider Chuck’s laser welder.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 10:15 AM
To: Cameron Crum 
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder

 

Way more.  Like $30k

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 25, 2024, at 7:36 AM, Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com> > wrote:



Cost vs a mig welder?

 

 

On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Hand held.

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Hand held? Or like a CNC machine?

 Original Message 
From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder

A lot like using a glue gun.

Sent from my iPhone





On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

? 

I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic 
tank welding.  I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong 
enough.  But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld.  Even 
over dirty and rusty metal.  Super fast.  You only need glasses or goggles.  
Not even that bright.  Brazing is brighter.  And with minimal heat to the 
workpiece too.  

 

Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead 
oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits.  

 

The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could come 
in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the controller 
was wiggled a bit.  And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on properly so it 
was wiggley.  I noticed the problems immediately.  While they did a good job 
centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it had to be 
offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance of things 
ever touching.

 

So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset hole 
in it for the temperature controller.  Then cut some notches in the panel to 
accommodate the offset.  Then put some tiny weld beads on the back side so 
there are no welds visible from the outside.  Super nice repair job.  Those 
tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and did 
them.

 

I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch.  It 
was a half inch away from the weld.  Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt or 
deform.  

 

So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal.  And it will do aluminum too.  
It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig welder 
but that is no big deal.  Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen filters to 
make it yourself.  

 

If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, 
this is the tool you want. 

>From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro.   

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder

[Ken Hohhof]

Hand held? Or like a CNC machine? Original Message From: "Chuck McCown 
via AF" Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: 
"Chuck McCown" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser WelderA lot like using a glue 
gun.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:?



I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and 
hydraulic tank welding.? I was very skeptical that such a small bead would 
be strong enough.? But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect 
weld.? Even over dirty and rusty metal.? Super fast.? You only 
need glasses or goggles.? Not even that bright.? Brazing is 
brighter.? And with minimal heat to the workpiece too.? 
?
Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead 
oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits.? 

?
The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could 
come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the 
controller was wiggled a bit.? And they didn?t have the bezel hold down on 
properly so it was wiggley.? I noticed the problems immediately.? 
While they did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control 
panel, it had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was 
no 
chance of things ever touching.
?
So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset 
hole in it for the temperature controller.? Then cut some notches in the 
panel to accommodate the offset.? Then put some tiny weld beads on the back 
side so there are no welds visible from the outside.? Super nice repair 
job.? Those tiny weld beads are if a 6? man with a tiny MIG welder got in 
there and did them.
?
I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the 
patch.? It was a half inch away from the weld.? Nothing got hot enough 
to smoke or melt or deform.? 
?
So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal.? And it will do 
aluminum too.? It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more 
than a mig welder but that is no big deal.? Nitrogen is cheap and you can 
buy nitrogen filters to make it yourself.? 
?
If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument 
panel, this is the tool you want. 
>From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250? it can make anyone a 
pro.?? 
?
?
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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Ken Hohhof]

If I’m the VoIP provider, I can easily record conversations.  And I would 
expect LE to come with a phone number not an IP address.  If it’s OTT VoIP, how 
likely is it to be going over public WiFi at a park?  I guess that’s possible.  
But again, wouldn’t they start with a phone number and contact the VoIP 
provider not the WiFi provider?

 

If someone is using a cell extender or WiFi calling, those go over a VPN which 
I assume is encrypted.

 

I wonder what companies like Comcast do with their cable WiFi network where any 
Comcast customer can connect off any other Comcast customer’s WiFi.  Do you get 
a unique IPv6 or CGNAT IP address that traces to your Comcast userid and can be 
tracked to you?  Or do the police bust down the door of the person whose WiFi 
you were using?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account)
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2024 4:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

 

I see CALEA as a holdover from those days when most of the traffic on the 
internet was unecrypted.  Law enforcement wanted to be able to wiretap the 
internet just like they could wiretap POTS.

 

Nowadays,  I'm not sure what law enforcement could actually do with the 
captured data.   What an isp has access to is largely encrypted over the wire.  
 I guess some data might be useful but I'm guessing that law enforcement has 
learned that looking at a capture of customer data isn't as useful as they 
thought it would be. 

 

About the only thing I can think of right this second which might be at least 
frequently unencrypted anymore is VoIP and/or DNS depending on your 
configuration.   But if I was carrying on criminal activities across the net 
I'd probably be looking at ways to encrypt everything which isn't hard to do.  

 

On Mon, Mar 18, 2024, 4:17 PM Mark Radabaugh mailto:m...@amplex.net> > wrote:

While CALEA is still on the books it doesn’t seem to be of much interest to LEA.

 

No - you do not have to be able to identify the user.  If LEA can identify a 
specific end user for you out of the WiFi, then yes, they could ask for you to 
monitor it but keep in mind that CALEA isn’t meant for historical data.   It’s 
meant to be real-time capture once they have identified a particular person of 
interest (well, a specific phone number, IP address, etc.).   

 

Every year I get a phone call from the FBI verifying our contact information 
and how to get hold of us if they need something.  I point out that we file our 
CALEA documents and ask why they are calling - and they say ‘oh, we don’t use 
that’.   Uh,  got it.   But the FCC still thinks it’s important and you best 
follow the rules and file it anyway.  Local and State LEA has never heard of 
CALEA.   It’s just one more bureaucracy on autopilot that has outlived it’s 
usefulness.

 

Mark

 

 

On Mar 18, 2024, at 6:29 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com   
wrote:

 

CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but it’s 
one I don’t know much about.

 

If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We have 
parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are also 
MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.

 

My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re ordered to 
do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?  

 

If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no 
problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted me 
to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be able 
to tell them it was someone at the park.  At best I could give them a MAC 
address and hostname.  If I have to identify the customer that’s easy: the 
municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not what they will want to 
know.

 

Will this stuff get us in trouble?

 

-Adam

 

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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Ken Hohhof]

“Bureaucracy on autopilot”.  That’ll be my new favorite term.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

 

While CALEA is still on the books it doesn’t seem to be of much interest to LEA.

 

No - you do not have to be able to identify the user.  If LEA can identify a 
specific end user for you out of the WiFi, then yes, they could ask for you to 
monitor it but keep in mind that CALEA isn’t meant for historical data.   It’s 
meant to be real-time capture once they have identified a particular person of 
interest (well, a specific phone number, IP address, etc.).   

 

Every year I get a phone call from the FBI verifying our contact information 
and how to get hold of us if they need something.  I point out that we file our 
CALEA documents and ask why they are calling - and they say ‘oh, we don’t use 
that’.   Uh,  got it.   But the FCC still thinks it’s important and you best 
follow the rules and file it anyway.  Local and State LEA has never heard of 
CALEA.   It’s just one more bureaucracy on autopilot that has outlived it’s 
usefulness.

 

Mark

 

 

On Mar 18, 2024, at 6:29 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com   
wrote:

 

CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but it’s 
one I don’t know much about.

 

If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We have 
parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are also 
MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.

 

My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re ordered to 
do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?  

 

If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no 
problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted me 
to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be able 
to tell them it was someone at the park.  At best I could give them a MAC 
address and hostname.  If I have to identify the customer that’s easy: the 
municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not what they will want to 
know.

 

Will this stuff get us in trouble?

 

-Adam

 

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Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

[Ken Hohhof]

I actually have zero hands-on experience, but from what I've seen posted in
the past, they don't expect you to do the impossible.  And LEA is more
interested in catching the bad guys than hanging you out to dry on a
technicality, so they will work with what you can give them.  Something that
seems to come up in discussions however is only turning over traffic
captured from the target customer, not sure how that applies in the case of
something like public WiFi at a park.

 

My limited personal experience with law enforcement is they want information
not wiretaps.  Occasionally might be in real-time (sting operation, hostage
crisis, etc.), but more typically something in the past.  Usually they have
an IP address and date/time, and want the name and address and sometimes
everything you've got about the corresponding customer.  Fraud, theft,
domestic disputes, kiddy porn, that kind of stuff.  Lately it seems we don't
find out why they want the information, and they often forbid us to alert
the customer, at least for several months (presumably to allow for a grand
jury or court date).

 

Just blue-skying, I guess if we did WiFi for public spaces, we would have to
worry more about stuff like mass shootings or terrorist attacks.  Although I
would imagine the cellphone providers would be their most important source
of information.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 5:29 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi

 

CALEA hasn't been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but
it's one I don't know much about.

 

If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance?  We have
parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi.  There are also
MDU's with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc.

 

My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you're ordered
to do so.  Do you also have to be able to identify the individual?  

 

If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi..sure no
problem.  If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted
me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be
able to tell them it was someone at the park.  At best I could give them a
MAC address and hostname.  If I have to identify the customer that's easy:
the municipal parks department, but I'm guessing that's not what they will
want to know.

 

Will this stuff get us in trouble?

 

-Adam

 

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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Ken Hohhof]

Equinix has a really big hut in Chicago that was overheating.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 6:51 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question

 

"a hut in Batavia"

 

and that hut was overheating last summer, resulting in a bunch of rolling 
outages.



-
Mike Hammett
 <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions
 <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>  
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> 
 <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange
 <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>  
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> 
 <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP
 <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>  
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 4:39:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question

Mike Hammett kind of touched on what I was asking and why.  I was told that 
Metronet near me had a hut in Batavia that also served St. Charles, Geneva, 
West Chicago, etc.  via PON.

 

Also a company that built a middle mile / anchor institution fiber network with 
a BTOP grant 12+ years ago convinced the county to let them take it private, 
and they have run aerial fiber in most of Shabbona which is one of the towns 
Mike mentioned.  With my misconception about how FTTH is typically deployed, I 
expected there to be at least one cabinet or hut in town.  But I think they are 
just using strands from the BTOP project and feeding it passively from a 
distant town.

 

I would prefer to see more redundancy, especially since both buried and aerial 
fiber definitely gets damaged around here, but I guess practical results matter 
more than what-ifs.  At least local power outages shouldn’t take it down, and a 
central NOC or hut should be able to have serious battery and/or generator 
backup.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 4:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question

 

PON is one port at your end and then goes through splitters that reduce light 
and add ports to end up at customer ONTs.  1:128 is pretty short range and high 
customer count - we could never do that in a rural plant (5-15 miles).  Maybe 
1:64 but that's about the limit.  There is NO redundancy in PON.  Best you 
could do is 2x32 or whatever splitters which is where you feed the downstream 
fiber with two PON ports.  An engineer from Metronet told me they did that but 
no one could ever answer why (technically or operationally).   Think like you 
have an AP on a tower feeding 32 customers.  What are the chances you have an 
AP right below it with the same SSID/PSK/frequency for the customers to connect 
to if the first AP goes down?

 

Think of Active E like a bunch of dumb switches.  You have a 48 port switch 
that goes to 48 customers using 48 fibers.  If the fiber feeding the switch 
goes down, it can go to a different fiber/uplink port.

 

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things, maybe 
someone can clear something up for me.

 

I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.  I 
expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of 
neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL 
style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut 
wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic would 
reroute.

 

I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go back 
over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all passive.

 

Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out 
what I’m asking.

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Re: [AFMUG] PON question

[Ken Hohhof]

Mike Hammett kind of touched on what I was asking and why.  I was told that 
Metronet near me had a hut in Batavia that also served St. Charles, Geneva, 
West Chicago, etc.  via PON.

 

Also a company that built a middle mile / anchor institution fiber network with 
a BTOP grant 12+ years ago convinced the county to let them take it private, 
and they have run aerial fiber in most of Shabbona which is one of the towns 
Mike mentioned.  With my misconception about how FTTH is typically deployed, I 
expected there to be at least one cabinet or hut in town.  But I think they are 
just using strands from the BTOP project and feeding it passively from a 
distant town.

 

I would prefer to see more redundancy, especially since both buried and aerial 
fiber definitely gets damaged around here, but I guess practical results matter 
more than what-ifs.  At least local power outages shouldn’t take it down, and a 
central NOC or hut should be able to have serious battery and/or generator 
backup.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 4:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question

 

PON is one port at your end and then goes through splitters that reduce light 
and add ports to end up at customer ONTs.  1:128 is pretty short range and high 
customer count - we could never do that in a rural plant (5-15 miles).  Maybe 
1:64 but that's about the limit.  There is NO redundancy in PON.  Best you 
could do is 2x32 or whatever splitters which is where you feed the downstream 
fiber with two PON ports.  An engineer from Metronet told me they did that but 
no one could ever answer why (technically or operationally).   Think like you 
have an AP on a tower feeding 32 customers.  What are the chances you have an 
AP right below it with the same SSID/PSK/frequency for the customers to connect 
to if the first AP goes down?

 

Think of Active E like a bunch of dumb switches.  You have a 48 port switch 
that goes to 48 customers using 48 fibers.  If the fiber feeding the switch 
goes down, it can go to a different fiber/uplink port.

 

On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things, maybe 
someone can clear something up for me.

 

I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.  I 
expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of 
neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL 
style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut 
wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic would 
reroute.

 

I’ve been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go back 
over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all passive.

 

Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out 
what I’m asking.

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[AFMUG] PON question

[Ken Hohhof]

Since there are FTTH people here and I'm mostly ignorant of such things,
maybe someone can clear something up for me.

 

I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC.  I
expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of
neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL
style fiber.  Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut
wouldn't take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic
would reroute.

 

I've been told this is not the case.  And that instead, each PON could go
back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all
passive.

 

Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out
what I'm asking.

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Re: [AFMUG] Nice call

[Ken Hohhof]

These days when someone calls to cancel they are already gone. No customer 
retention discussion. Maybe an equipment return discussion.The other thing, my 
area is rural. Everybody is related to everybody and talks to everybody, even 
50 miles away. I dare not give one person a deal unless I give it to 
everone. Original Message From: "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" Sent: 
3/15/2024 4:38:00 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" , "Josh Luthman" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call







Offer to match.
$25/mo is $25/mo that you wouldn?t otherwise make.
?

Jim Bouse
Owner
Brazos WiFi
979-985-5912
j...@brazoswifi.com


?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 4:24 PM
To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users 
Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call


?



How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G?


?


Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com




?



From: Josh Luthman



Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM


To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group



Cc:
ch...@go-mtc.com 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call




?




They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your depreciating 
ONT.? Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost revenue :/


?



On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:






Just had a call from a former customer.? He was wanting to come back.? He went 
with an Xfinity $25/month deal.? This was 2 years ago.? The deal expired and 
now he
 wants to come back.? We left the ONT and are ready to simply turn him back 
on.? Nice to win one back like that.? Especially against those guys.?



?




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Re: [AFMUG] Nice call

[Ken Hohhof]

They thought they owned the customer. But from 40 years ago marketing classes, 
what they got with their $25 promo was value shoppers, high churn customers, 
not loyalty or inertia customers.I guess like the 20 year old hottie who steals 
some rich guy from his 30 year old wife, should prepare to be replaced herself 
in 10 years. Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 
3/12/2024 4:25:18 PMTo: "Josh Luthman" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: 
chuck@go-mtc.comSubject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call



How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G?
?
Best 
Regards,Chuck McCownMcCown Technology Corporation 8401 N 
Commerce DrLake Point, Utah 84074801-250-9503 Office435-830-4306 
Cellwww.mccowntech.comwww.microtrench.prowww.terabitnetworks.com


?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
?

They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your 
depreciating ONT.? Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost 
revenue :/
?

On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17?PM Chuck McCown via AF 
 wrote:

  
  
  
  Just had a call from a former customer.? He was wanting to come 
  back.? He went with an Xfinity $25/month deal.? This was 2 years 
  ago.? The deal expired and now he wants to come back.? We left the 
  ONT and are ready to simply turn him back on.? Nice to win one back like 
  that.? Especially against those guys.? 
  ?-- 
  AF mailing 
listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Ken Hohhof]

FWIW, some customers seem to like the Blink cameras (Amazon's other camera
brand besides Ring).  I know you said no batteries, but supposedly with the
900 MHz Sync module, the camera batteries last 1-2 years.  My understanding
is that's because they use the 900 MHz Blink protocol for command & control
and only use WiFi when sending video.  You're sure you can't get your WiFi
to reach out there?

As far as IR illumination, you can't put an illuminator on the house to
light up the driveway?  Or is this a long winding drive and you want to
watch the part by the road?

But as far as the UniFi cameras, I have mixed feelings about them.  They
seem kind of pricey. I use the NVR not the Cloud Key.  Maybe subconsciously
I don't want to buy something with UCK for the part number?  I have one of
the WIFi indoor cameras in the shelter at a tower, it's OK.  I have G4
Bullets and G4 Pros, I found the build quality and mounting method for the
Bullet to be inferior to the Pro.  And somebody warned me the flash in the
NVRs tends to die and then you have to reload the OS.

Oh, and the audio has problems with wind noise, but maybe all cameras have
that problem?  If there's no wind it can pick up people talking 200 feet
away, but if it's windy, the microphone is useless.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 2:53 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

I have no constructive input.  UniFi always finds a way to tick me off.  
Their original Ubiquiti AirVision camera system was such a horror show that
the cameras in particular give me a visceral response.  Regardless of how
they've improved I can't forgive them.

I guess their WiFi is ok enough for some purposes.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2024 1:31 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a 3-Stooges
script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after all.

We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and with
terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property. It will be
about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights down there, and the
spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to reach that I don't want
to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a wired/POE camera.

The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi UVC-G5-PRO,
mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and the image quality
is noticeably better than the G4 and below models. It also has enough smarts
to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone come driving up.

One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I don't
know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus if it had
it because I don't want it drawing attention.

It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it can
handle a few more cameras should the need arise).

Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the Borg to
see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations.

--
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Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Ken Hohhof]

Reading license plates is more difficult than they make it seem on TV shows.

 

I have a G4 Pro with 3x optical zoom pointed at the gate at one of our tower 
sites, but normally it’s at 1x and you would need to realize there is an 
intruder and zoom in while they are actually there.  Same with a PTZ camera.  
Unless they have AI now that detects a vehicle and automatically zooms in on 
the license plate.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 9:58 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

 

We can never see the license plates.  

 

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 8:50 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

 

It might be OK. The G5-PRO has a visor over the top, plus, in this instance it 
will be pointed down at an approximately 45° angle. I think it will be mounted 
high enough that there won't be any splash from the ground below. That said, it 
would not be a problem for me to fashion an additional visor. 

Thanks for the tip though.

bp


On 3/5/2024 7:35 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

The problem I've found with bullt in illumination for outdoor cameras is that 
often the leds for illumination are behind the glass the camera is looking 
through.   As a result,  the illuminator ends up illuminating anything that is 
on the glass and preventing good night vision. In an outdoor setting, the glass 
doesn't stay clean for very long so for outdoor cameras I almost always use an 
external illuminator.  

 

I don't know how the camera you mentioned is designed and if that is the case 
with it.

 

On Mon, Mar 4, 2024, 2:35 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I might, but the built-in illuminator goes an advertised 82 feet, which 
is a bit farther than I need. I've seen comparisons between the G5 
cameras and the G4s and G3s, and the G5 is noticeably sharper; even in IR.


bp


On 3/4/2024 12:30 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Someone told me there is a USB connector for powering an illuminator.  But
> it sounds like you are already planning on one of these:
> https://store.ui.com/us/en/collections/unifi-accessory-tech-camera-enhancers
> /products/uacc-g5-enhancer
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
> Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 2:13 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>
> The G5-PRO does allow you to turn off its IR so you can add a different
> illuminator. However, being color blind, I'm not all that impressed by
> color. That would also require running another cable to power the
> illuminator.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/4/2024 11:37 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Some people get a powerful add-on IR illuminator, that could also let you
>> choose the wavelength to make sure it's not visible.
>>
>> I've seen ads for color night vision cameras, that could be good IF it
> works
>> as advertised.  On our G4 Pro tower cameras I wish I could delay the
> switch
>> to night vision until it's really dark, the B image is less useful.
>>
>> Here's an example of what I've seen advertised:
>>
>> https://www.tp-link.com/us/technology/tapo-camera/
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 1:09 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>>
>> The only problems with that camera are 1)Effectively no sun in this
>> location, 2)No LTE available there, 3)No IR mode, and 4)The spotlight
> (which
>> I don't want anyway) only goes 26 feet (big whoop).
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 3/4/2024 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few
>>> days
>>> ago:
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330
>>> -featu
>>> res-price
>>>
>>> As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on
>>> the G5.
>>>
>>> At night, IR mode is a mixed bag.  People and critters become glowing
>> eyes.
>>> In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On 
>>> Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM
>>> To: AFMUG mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>>>
>>> I tri

Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Ken Hohhof]

Someone told me there is a USB connector for powering an illuminator.  But
it sounds like you are already planning on one of these:
https://store.ui.com/us/en/collections/unifi-accessory-tech-camera-enhancers
/products/uacc-g5-enhancer


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 2:13 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

The G5-PRO does allow you to turn off its IR so you can add a different
illuminator. However, being color blind, I'm not all that impressed by
color. That would also require running another cable to power the
illuminator.

bp


On 3/4/2024 11:37 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Some people get a powerful add-on IR illuminator, that could also let you
> choose the wavelength to make sure it's not visible.
>
> I've seen ads for color night vision cameras, that could be good IF it
works
> as advertised.  On our G4 Pro tower cameras I wish I could delay the
switch
> to night vision until it's really dark, the B image is less useful.
>
> Here's an example of what I've seen advertised:
>
> https://www.tp-link.com/us/technology/tapo-camera/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 1:09 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>
> The only problems with that camera are 1)Effectively no sun in this
> location, 2)No LTE available there, 3)No IR mode, and 4)The spotlight
(which
> I don't want anyway) only goes 26 feet (big whoop).
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 3/4/2024 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few
>> days
>> ago:
>> https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330
>> -featu
>> res-price
>>
>> As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on
>> the G5.
>>
>> At night, IR mode is a mixed bag.  People and critters become glowing
> eyes.
>> In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM
>> To: AFMUG 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>>
>> I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a
>> 3-Stooges script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after
> all.
>> We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and
>> with terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property.
>> It will be about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights
>> down there, and the spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to
>> reach that I don't want to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a
> wired/POE camera.
>> The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi
>> UVC-G5-PRO, mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and
>> the image quality is noticeably better than the G4 and below models.
>> It also has enough smarts to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone
> come driving up.
>> One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I
>> don't know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus
>> if it had it because I don't want it drawing attention.
>>
>> It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it
>> can handle a few more cameras should the need arise).
>>
>> Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the
>> Borg to see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations.
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Ken Hohhof]

Some people get a powerful add-on IR illuminator, that could also let you
choose the wavelength to make sure it's not visible.

I've seen ads for color night vision cameras, that could be good IF it works
as advertised.  On our G4 Pro tower cameras I wish I could delay the switch
to night vision until it's really dark, the B image is less useful.

Here's an example of what I've seen advertised:

https://www.tp-link.com/us/technology/tapo-camera/


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 1:09 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

The only problems with that camera are 1)Effectively no sun in this
location, 2)No LTE available there, 3)No IR mode, and 4)The spotlight (which
I don't want anyway) only goes 26 feet (big whoop).


bp


On 3/4/2024 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few 
> days
> ago:
> https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330
> -featu
> res-price
>
> As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on 
> the G5.
>
> At night, IR mode is a mixed bag.  People and critters become glowing
eyes.
> In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM
> To: AFMUG 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
>
> I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a 
> 3-Stooges script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after
all.
>
> We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and 
> with terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property. 
> It will be about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights 
> down there, and the spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to 
> reach that I don't want to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a
wired/POE camera.
>
> The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi 
> UVC-G5-PRO, mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and 
> the image quality is noticeably better than the G4 and below models. 
> It also has enough smarts to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone
come driving up.
>
> One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I 
> don't know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus 
> if it had it because I don't want it drawing attention.
>
> It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it 
> can handle a few more cameras should the need arise).
>
> Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the 
> Borg to see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations.
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

[Ken Hohhof]

Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few days
ago:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330-featu
res-price

As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on the
G5.

At night, IR mode is a mixed bag.  People and critters become glowing eyes.
In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience

I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a 3-Stooges
script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after all.

We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and with
terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property. It will be
about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights down there, and the
spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to reach that I don't want
to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a wired/POE camera.

The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi UVC-G5-PRO,
mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and the image quality
is noticeably better than the G4 and below models. It also has enough smarts
to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone come driving up.

One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I don't
know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus if it had
it because I don't want it drawing attention.

It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it can
handle a few more cameras should the need arise).

Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the Borg to
see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations.

--
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Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

[Ken Hohhof]

I went and watched a couple of your videos.  Those are some big blades.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 12:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

Youtube channel is alive and well.  Full of microtrenching stuff.


-Original Message-
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 4:50 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

In drag racing, NASCAR, etc. the cars are covered with stickers from parts
manufacturers.  I don't suppose you could get your customers to put your
name on their vehicles.

Perhaps more seriously, I'm not sure people in our business spend much time
on Linkedin or even Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, etc.  But a common
denominator seems to be Youtube instructional videos.  I think you should
bring back your Youtube channel.  Videos of actual customers using your
products on the job would be excellent.

What was the brand of tools they were always pushing on Home Improvement,
Binford?  Oh, and the Tool Time girl.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 9:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

I will be the first to proclaim that I am not your marketing guru.
However, I play a stellar hindsight game. Back in the day, I worked for a
company with a head of marketing that was really good at predicting the
exact opposite way to go. I commented once in a group of co-workers that
they should plant an arrow out of his back, and go that way.

FWIW, I have never acted on any of the 10-bazillion offers I've gotten from
LinkedIn.

So maybe it's a good idea?


bp


On 3/1/2024 7:56 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I've never tried it, but I would think no.  Total waste of time and money.
>
> Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus.  I am the person you ask 
> and then do the opposite.  So yes it would probably do great.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
>
> Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

[Ken Hohhof]

In drag racing, NASCAR, etc. the cars are covered with stickers from parts
manufacturers.  I don't suppose you could get your customers to put your
name on their vehicles.

Perhaps more seriously, I'm not sure people in our business spend much time
on Linkedin or even Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, etc.  But a common
denominator seems to be Youtube instructional videos.  I think you should
bring back your Youtube channel.  Videos of actual customers using your
products on the job would be excellent.

What was the brand of tools they were always pushing on Home Improvement,
Binford?  Oh, and the Tool Time girl.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 9:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

I will be the first to proclaim that I am not your marketing guru. 
However, I play a stellar hindsight game. Back in the day, I worked for a
company with a head of marketing that was really good at predicting the
exact opposite way to go. I commented once in a group of co-workers that
they should plant an arrow out of his back, and go that way.

FWIW, I have never acted on any of the 10-bazillion offers I've gotten from
LinkedIn.

So maybe it's a good idea?


bp


On 3/1/2024 7:56 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I've never tried it, but I would think no.  Total waste of time and money.
>
> Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus.  I am the person you ask 
> and then do the opposite.  So yes it would probably do great.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Cc: Chuck McCown 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
>
> Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

[Ken Hohhof]

I've never tried it, but I would think no.  Total waste of time and money.

Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus.  I am the person you ask and
then do the opposite.  So yes it would probably do great.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort?

Sent from my iPhone


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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Ken Hohhof]

I want to know if Chuck has a 4K Blu-ray player in his home theater.

https://www.theverge.com/24046669/4k-blu-ray-streaming-physical-media-bitrate-picture-audio-quality-collector

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 2:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

"I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure if he 
is doing the chain mount or not. "

 

WTF chuck

 

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 12:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure if he 
is doing the chain mount or not.  

 

Hunter Clark  hun...@c3fab.com <mailto:hun...@c3fab.com> 

 

Best Regards,
Chuck McCown

McCown Technology Corporation 
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench.pro <http://www.microtrench.pro> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

 

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:10 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

Chain mount.  Chuck has them as does PV and CommScope.

 

Regards,

 

Jeff 

 

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com <mailto:jbroadw...@cticonnect.com> 





On Feb 20, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

 

I think I’ve got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf.  Like everything from 
SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

+1 to both of those suggestions.

*   I’ve seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole (J-arms, 
J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them). 
*   Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4” wall mount, but there are a 
thousand copies out there.  Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS 
finishes.  I’m sure Channel Master is fine.

 

One other thing, you’re not supposed to drill into the top surface of a wooden 
pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting.  You’re also not 
supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the top (4” maybe? I don’t 
recall).  That’s why those pole-top mounts you see are straddling the top and 
have bolt holes farther down.  If you put a galvanized pipe into one of those 
wall mounts then you can have your mast above the top and also not be putting 
hardware at the top.  Electric/phone companies won’t like that solution because 
it uses more vertical real estate, but if it’s just a light pole then it ought 
not be a problem.

 

If you do want something heavy duty that won’t break the bank then look at the 
Site Pro version of the WM4:

https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list 
<https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218> =1218

https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly).pdf

I don’t know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one 
weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I’m sure it’s 
sufficiently burly for most equipment.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets.

 Original Message 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?

 

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
anyone know of anything?

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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Ken Hohhof]

But if I’m late with my CPNI and BDC and 499A filings, they’ll fine me out of 
existence.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

well - a few things that have come out now and are "known"

 

This station billed itself as "101.5 WJLX".  No mention of the AM .

It's assumed no one has listened to the AM for years.

Videos and posts have circulated online that the AM broadcast site hadn't been 
active for years.

 

This thread has determined the tower went "missing" sometime between October 
2022 and March 2023.

The site was likely in poor shape long before that.

 

Not sure what prompted the great "oh! it's missing!" debacle unless he was 
aware he was about to get

violated by the FCC or something.

 

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-wjbe-and-werh-oh-my.769948/

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chuck McCown via AF <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

Someone said they unbolted the sections.  

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:32 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

So you’re saying they used an axe?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:21 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

I was the first to jump to it being either an inside job or someone that really 
had an axe to grind with the owner.

The effort involved in stealing a tower would not be worth the value of the 
scrap steel I would not think.  

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:16 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

Not once you cut the wires and/or steal the transmitter.

 

But there have been multiple reports the site has been offline for years and 
lying to the FCC so they can operate via their FM repeater.  Not saying the 
reports are true, what’s the acronym now for “just asking questions”, JAQ?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent they 
all energized? 

 

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?

 

Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the station.

For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 
2014)

 

1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?

 

2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on 
facebook) : 

 

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741

 

3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just 
unscrew it in 10 foot sections

just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho.  
Clearly no one listens to that AM,

except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.

 

In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has been off 
air for at least 5 years,

but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off last 
week - the property had been abandoned,

seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy 
currently running it), and now it's being

sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.

 

Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also 
silent

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mail

Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Ken Hohhof]

I think I've got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf.  Like everything
from SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

+1 to both of those suggestions.

*   I've seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole
(J-arms, J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them).
*   Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4" wall mount, but there are a
thousand copies out there.  Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS
finishes.  I'm sure Channel Master is fine.

 

One other thing, you're not supposed to drill into the top surface of a
wooden pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting.
You're also not supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the top
(4" maybe? I don't recall).  That's why those pole-top mounts you see are
straddling the top and have bolt holes farther down.  If you put a
galvanized pipe into one of those wall mounts then you can have your mast
above the top and also not be putting hardware at the top.  Electric/phone
companies won't like that solution because it uses more vertical real
estate, but if it's just a light pole then it ought not be a problem.

 

If you do want something heavy duty that won't break the bank then look at
the Site Pro version of the WM4:

https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list
<https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218> =1218

https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly)
.pdf

I don't know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one
weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I'm sure it's
sufficiently burly for most equipment.

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

 

Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets.

 Original Message 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?

 

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
anyone know of anything?

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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Ken Hohhof]

Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets. 
Original Message From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AMTo: 
"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole MountJust use 
a Jpole?? Or an MTOW?On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt 
 wrote:I need to mount a small steel pole to a 
wood light pole. The kits I
see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
anyone know of anything?

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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Ken Hohhof]

So you’re saying they used an axe?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:21 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

I was the first to jump to it being either an inside job or someone that really 
had an axe to grind with the owner.

The effort involved in stealing a tower would not be worth the value of the 
scrap steel I would not think.  

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:16 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

Not once you cut the wires and/or steal the transmitter.

 

But there have been multiple reports the site has been offline for years and 
lying to the FCC so they can operate via their FM repeater.  Not saying the 
reports are true, what’s the acronym now for “just asking questions”, JAQ?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent they 
all energized? 

 

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?

 

Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the station.

For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 
2014)

 

1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?

 

2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on 
facebook) : 

 

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741

 

3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just 
unscrew it in 10 foot sections

just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho.  
Clearly no one listens to that AM,

except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.

 

In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has been off 
air for at least 5 years,

but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off last 
week - the property had been abandoned,

seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy 
currently running it), and now it's being

sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.

 

Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also 
silent

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM

To: Chuck McCown 

Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower 
stolen

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877
 


  _  


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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Ken Hohhof]

Not once you cut the wires and/or steal the transmitter.

 

But there have been multiple reports the site has been offline for years and 
lying to the FCC so they can operate via their FM repeater.  Not saying the 
reports are true, what’s the acronym now for “just asking questions”, JAQ?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent they 
all energized? 

 

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?

 

Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the station.

For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 
2014)

 

1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?

 

2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on 
facebook) : 

 

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741

 

3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just 
unscrew it in 10 foot sections

just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho.  
Clearly no one listens to that AM,

except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.

 

In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has been off 
air for at least 5 years,

but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off last 
week - the property had been abandoned,

seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy 
currently running it), and now it's being

sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.

 

Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also 
silent

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chuck McCown via AF <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM

To: Chuck McCown 

Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower 
stolen

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877
 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

Back when we went down the WiMAX rabbit hole, we had a system where the web
GUI and user manual must have been taken directly from the SNMP MIB.
Explanations like it's a 32 bit unsigned integer.  Want to know more, we'll
explain what an unsigned integer is.  What does it do?  Sorry, we have no
information about that.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 10:26 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

"Telrad documentation would take a whole paragraph to tell you how to change
an integer value and not ever tell you what it does. "

 

Since I'm feeling grouchy, I really want to expand on this story.  There was
a setting for the Wimax firmware on the Telrad 1000 called "Frame Offset".
The manual droned on at length to tell me that it's an integer and you can
set it from 0 to 32, and went into tedious detail on how to use the terminal
menu system to change it.  I asked our vendor support what it did and he
said "we just leave it at 0", but could not explain what it was for.  I
chased that up the totem pole with Telrad, and I think I concluded that
nobody in the North American office knew what the hell that setting would
do.  That one was an illustrative example, but the entire manual was like
that.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 7:47 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say that you were a hater.  I'm getting older, so
to act my age I have to do some general purpose grouching.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 11:55 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I didn't mean to come across as a hater.  The 450 features they have given
us are impressive, in my case a bit overwhelming.  I feel like I just sat
down in the cockpit of a big commercial airplane.

 

Everything you say is true, I just need some quiet time and some brain
enhancer pills to wrap my head around all the options.

 

I hope the money guys aren't leaning too heavily into "FWA is dead, gotta
pivot quick to fiber".  Yes, do new things if you have some advantages that
will allow you to be successful, but you also have to be able to walk and
chew gum.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I loved that stats were there and that documentation accurately described
what they meant and what the knobs are for.  I also always felt that Cambium
was listening to the operators and trying to give us what we needed and
wanted.  

If you can read, you can use the product without support, but in the few
cases I did need support it was available and I didn't have to pay for it.
They also never BS'd me about what the product could do, and they never
failed to support a product for a reasonable amount of time..even the 320
which was kind of a dog.

 

Telrad documentation would take a whole paragraph to tell you how to change
an integer value and not ever tell you what it does.  We also paid real
money for support who couldn't help us, and certain people there made absurd
claims about capabilities.

 

Ubiquiti gives you what they give you and doesn't help you at all.  You can
try to get answers on the forum, but the signal to noise ratio on a support
forum can be terrible.  Alvarion VL was a decent product for it's time, but
all their Wimax stuff was garbage.  I'd actually take PMP320 with all of its
idiosyncrasies over any Alvarion BreezeMax or whatever else.  And the list
of terrible PMP products is too long to get into.  There must have been
three dozen stupid WiFi things packaged up like they were something more
awesome than just a stupid WiFi thing.  

 

I don't know what's up with Cambium haters.  Did they actually use it and
objectively compare it to the competition, or are they blinded by the desire
to save a few dollars?

 

Anyway...the short version of all that is that all I had to do to appreciate
Cambium PMP was try someone else's crap for awhile.  If the worst thing we
have to complain about is that a feature shipped before a license key was on
the market then that's not a bad product.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Su

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

Excuse me while I yell at a cloud.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 6:47 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to say that you were a hater.  I'm getting older, so
to act my age I have to do some general purpose grouching.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 11:55 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I didn't mean to come across as a hater.  The 450 features they have given
us are impressive, in my case a bit overwhelming.  I feel like I just sat
down in the cockpit of a big commercial airplane.

 

Everything you say is true, I just need some quiet time and some brain
enhancer pills to wrap my head around all the options.

 

I hope the money guys aren't leaning too heavily into "FWA is dead, gotta
pivot quick to fiber".  Yes, do new things if you have some advantages that
will allow you to be successful, but you also have to be able to walk and
chew gum.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I loved that stats were there and that documentation accurately described
what they meant and what the knobs are for.  I also always felt that Cambium
was listening to the operators and trying to give us what we needed and
wanted.  

If you can read, you can use the product without support, but in the few
cases I did need support it was available and I didn't have to pay for it.
They also never BS'd me about what the product could do, and they never
failed to support a product for a reasonable amount of time..even the 320
which was kind of a dog.

 

Telrad documentation would take a whole paragraph to tell you how to change
an integer value and not ever tell you what it does.  We also paid real
money for support who couldn't help us, and certain people there made absurd
claims about capabilities.

 

Ubiquiti gives you what they give you and doesn't help you at all.  You can
try to get answers on the forum, but the signal to noise ratio on a support
forum can be terrible.  Alvarion VL was a decent product for it's time, but
all their Wimax stuff was garbage.  I'd actually take PMP320 with all of its
idiosyncrasies over any Alvarion BreezeMax or whatever else.  And the list
of terrible PMP products is too long to get into.  There must have been
three dozen stupid WiFi things packaged up like they were something more
awesome than just a stupid WiFi thing.  

 

I don't know what's up with Cambium haters.  Did they actually use it and
objectively compare it to the competition, or are they blinded by the desire
to save a few dollars?

 

Anyway...the short version of all that is that all I had to do to appreciate
Cambium PMP was try someone else's crap for awhile.  If the worst thing we
have to complain about is that a feature shipped before a license key was on
the market then that's not a bad product.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

450m and 450 in general has so many knobs you can tweak and stats to analyze
it seems they should have an AI powered advisor in cnMaestro to help you
optimize the settings.

 Original Message 
From: "Tyson Burris" 
Sent: 2/13/2024 9:23:06 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

Cambium is in a bit of scramble mode with everything going on and folks
breathing down their neck.  I fully expect this to be a free unlock at this
point.  

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
??www.surfici.net 

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
Cameras - Fiber - MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is stric

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

I didn't mean to come across as a hater.  The 450 features they have given
us are impressive, in my case a bit overwhelming.  I feel like I just sat
down in the cockpit of a big commercial airplane.

 

Everything you say is true, I just need some quiet time and some brain
enhancer pills to wrap my head around all the options.

 

I hope the money guys aren't leaning too heavily into "FWA is dead, gotta
pivot quick to fiber".  Yes, do new things if you have some advantages that
will allow you to be successful, but you also have to be able to walk and
chew gum.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:38 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I loved that stats were there and that documentation accurately described
what they meant and what the knobs are for.  I also always felt that Cambium
was listening to the operators and trying to give us what we needed and
wanted.  

If you can read, you can use the product without support, but in the few
cases I did need support it was available and I didn't have to pay for it.
They also never BS'd me about what the product could do, and they never
failed to support a product for a reasonable amount of time..even the 320
which was kind of a dog.

 

Telrad documentation would take a whole paragraph to tell you how to change
an integer value and not ever tell you what it does.  We also paid real
money for support who couldn't help us, and certain people there made absurd
claims about capabilities.

 

Ubiquiti gives you what they give you and doesn't help you at all.  You can
try to get answers on the forum, but the signal to noise ratio on a support
forum can be terrible.  Alvarion VL was a decent product for it's time, but
all their Wimax stuff was garbage.  I'd actually take PMP320 with all of its
idiosyncrasies over any Alvarion BreezeMax or whatever else.  And the list
of terrible PMP products is too long to get into.  There must have been
three dozen stupid WiFi things packaged up like they were something more
awesome than just a stupid WiFi thing.  

 

I don't know what's up with Cambium haters.  Did they actually use it and
objectively compare it to the competition, or are they blinded by the desire
to save a few dollars?

 

Anyway...the short version of all that is that all I had to do to appreciate
Cambium PMP was try someone else's crap for awhile.  If the worst thing we
have to complain about is that a feature shipped before a license key was on
the market then that's not a bad product.  

 

-Adam

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:33 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

450m and 450 in general has so many knobs you can tweak and stats to analyze
it seems they should have an AI powered advisor in cnMaestro to help you
optimize the settings.

 Original Message 
From: "Tyson Burris" 
Sent: 2/13/2024 9:23:06 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

Cambium is in a bit of scramble mode with everything going on and folks
breathing down their neck.  I fully expect this to be a free unlock at this
point.  

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
??www.surfici.net 

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
Cameras - Fiber - MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
sender immediately and delete this email from your system.

 

No Binding Agreement:

 

This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
email are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those
of the company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability
of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult with
an attorney.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFa

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

They do seem to have some headwinds.

 

But shareholder micromanagement is probably worse than stodgy product managers 
having the reins.

 

Developing and releasing a feature and failing to charge for it seems counter 
to a mad scramble to make money.  Unless they are finding that almost nobody 
wants it, which might be the case.  Even if license keys seem like 100% profit, 
there has to be some finite cost to sell and activate the entitlements.  If the 
number of sales would be in the single digits, it would actually make sense to 
just unlock it for free as Tyson Burris suggested.  I would be surprised 
though.  If nobody wants it, wouldn’t they just kill the feature so they 
wouldn’t have to support it?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Their shareholders are likely breathing down their necks even harder than their 
customers, so they are also in a mad scramble to make money.

 

 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:23 AM Tyson Burris mailto:t...@franklinisp.net> > wrote:

Cambium is in a bit of scramble mode with everything going on and folks 
breathing down their neck.  I fully expect this to be a free unlock at this 
point.  

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
  www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>  

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber – MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete this email from your system.

 

No Binding Agreement:

 

This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this email 
are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those of the 
company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability of any 
agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult with an 
attorney.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Tough crowd.

 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:09 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Turns out you are right, they haven’t released the license key to distributors 
yet.  I was looking at the P/N and price for the key to unlock MU-MIMO on a 
450m Lite.  My mistake.

 

What is Cambium thinking, put the feature in a production release with a 30 day 
trial license, but not sell the key to use it beyond the 30 days?  And how are 
customers supposed to decide if it’s worth the price if they don’t tell us the 
price?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 3:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Correction to my comment.  I can’t see the benefit.

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
  www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>  

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber – MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete this email from your system.

 

No Binding Agreement:

 

This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, u

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

450m and 450 in general has so many knobs you can tweak and stats to analyze it 
seems they should have an AI powered advisor in cnMaestro to help you optimize 
the settings. Original Message From: "Tyson Burris" Sent: 2/13/2024 
9:23:06 AMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 
450m uplink interference cancellation feature







Cambium is in a bit of scramble mode with everything going on and folks 
breathing down their neck.? I fully expect this to be a free unlock at this 
point.?

?
?




Tyson Burris?
President & CEO?


?




Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131?
?
317-412-1540
 (emergency/after-hours)?
317-738-0320?(office)
? t...@franklinisp.net?
??www.surfici.net?
?





?
Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions ? Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber ? MDUs?

?
Active Member To The Following:
?
WISPA
NBBC
?
Confidentiality Notice:

?
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended
 recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from 
your system.
?
No Binding Agreement:
?
This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties.
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of mine alone 
and do not necessarily represent those of the company. If you have any doubts 
about the validity or enforceability of any agreement or arrangement discussed 
in this email, please
 consult with an attorney.
?

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

?

Tough crowd.

?


On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 9:09?AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:





Turns out you are right, they haven?t released the license key to distributors 
yet.? I was looking at the P/N and price for the key
 to unlock MU-MIMO on a 450m Lite.? My mistake.
?
What is Cambium thinking, put the feature in a production release with a 30 day 
trial license, but not sell the key to use it beyond
 the 30 days?? And how are customers supposed to decide if it?s worth the price 
if they don?t tell us the price?
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 3:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature


?
Correction to my comment.? I can?t see the benefit.
?
?





Tyson Burris?
President & CEO?



?





Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131?

?

317-412-1540
 (emergency/after-hours)?
317-738-0320?(office)
?
t...@franklinisp.net?
??www.surfici.net?

?






?
Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions ? Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber ? MDUs?

?
Active Member To The Following:
?
WISPA
NBBC
?
Confidentiality Notice:

?
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or
 entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you 
are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this 
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, 
please notify the sender
 immediately and delete this email from your system.
?
No Binding Agreement:
?
This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly
 refers to a duly authorized agreement signed by both parties. Any views or 
opinions presented in this email are solely those of mine alone and do not 
necessarily represent those of the company. If you have any doubts about the 
validity or enforceability of
 any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult with an 
attorney.
?

From: AF 
On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 4:11 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

?
That's what my distributor has it listed for.

 Original Message 
From: "Tyson Burris" 
Sent: 2/8/2024 3:02:42 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

I was told they are still talking about the final price.? Either way I can see 
the benefit here if you have to give up some of the AP features to work.
?
?





Tyson Burris?
President & CEO?



?





Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131?

?

317-412-1540
 (emergency/after-hours)?
317-738-0320?(office)
?
t...@franklinisp.net?
??www.su

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

Turns out you are right, they haven’t released the license key to distributors 
yet.  I was looking at the P/N and price for the key to unlock MU-MIMO on a 
450m Lite.  My mistake.

 

What is Cambium thinking, put the feature in a production release with a 30 day 
trial license, but not sell the key to use it beyond the 30 days?  And how are 
customers supposed to decide if it’s worth the price if they don’t tell us the 
price?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Tyson Burris
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 3:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

Correction to my comment.  I can’t see the benefit.

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
  www.surfici.net 

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber – MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete this email from your system.

 

No Binding Agreement:

 

This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this email 
are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those of the 
company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability of any 
agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult with an 
attorney.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 4:11 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

That's what my distributor has it listed for.

 Original Message 
From: "Tyson Burris" 
Sent: 2/8/2024 3:02:42 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

I was told they are still talking about the final price.  Either way I can see 
the benefit here if you have to give up some of the AP features to work.

 

 


Tyson Burris 
President & CEO 

 


Internet Communications Inc (ICI)

739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 

 

317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 
317-738-0320 (office)
  t...@franklinisp.net <mailto:t...@franklinisp.net>  
??www.surfici.net 

 



 

Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber – MDUs  

 

Active Member To The Following:

 

 <http://www.wispa.org/> WISPA

 <http://www.nbbc.coop/> NBBC

 

Confidentiality Notice: 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly 
prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender 
immediately and delete this email from your system.

 

No Binding Agreement:

 

This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this email 
are solely those of mine alone and do not necessarily represent those of the 
company. If you have any doubts about the validity or enforceability of any 
agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult with an 
attorney.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 12:00 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I think you know the answer, it's $2000 per AP. $2500 MSRP.

I'd pay it if 3x and 4x modulations were suddenly 6x or 8x. But they're not.

 Original Message 
From: "Craig Schmaderer" 
Sent: 2/1/2024 10:40:30 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

$2000???   Please tell me that is not per Access Point?    I could handle maybe 
that for all of them.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.co

Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux

[Ken Hohhof]

Had to look that up, but yes.

 

But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world 
right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between 
now and 2038.  If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or 
space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is 
whether Linux has a date rollover problem.  Rather than being like Charlton 
Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up!

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux

 

i.e. you are raising your SEP field...

On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to 
be retired or dead.  It will be somebody else’s problem.

 

 

From: AF  <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>  On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux

 

"The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 
19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the 
value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large 
negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on 
December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem."

 





 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan
to be retired or dead.  It will be somebody else's problem.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux

 

"The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on
January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this
second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to
being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is
20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem."

 

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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Ken Hohhof]

Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?

 

Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the station.

For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 
2014)

 

1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?

 

2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on 
facebook) : 

 

https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741

 

3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just 
unscrew it in 10 foot sections

just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho.  
Clearly no one listens to that AM,

except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.

 

In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has been off 
air for at least 5 years,

but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off last 
week - the property had been abandoned,

seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy 
currently running it), and now it's being

sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.

 

Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also 
silent

 

 

- Original Message - 

From: Chuck McCown via AF   

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com   

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM

Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot 
radio tower stolen

 

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM

To: Chuck McCown 

Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower 
stolen

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877
 

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

That's what my distributor has it listed for. Original Message From: 
"Tyson Burris" Sent: 2/8/2024 3:02:42 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature







I was told they are still talking about the final price.? Either way I can see 
the benefit here if you have to give up some of the AP features to work.
?
?




Tyson Burris?
President & CEO?


?




Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131?
?
317-412-1540
 (emergency/after-hours)?
317-738-0320?(office)
? t...@franklinisp.net?
??www.surfici.net?
?





?
Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions ? Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber ? MDUs?

?
Active Member To The Following:
?
WISPA
NBBC
?
Confidentiality Notice:

?
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended
 recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from 
your system.
?
No Binding Agreement:
?
This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties.
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of mine alone 
and do not necessarily represent those of the company. If you have any doubts 
about the validity or enforceability of any agreement or arrangement discussed 
in this email, please
 consult with an attorney.
?

From: AF 
On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 12:00 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

?
I think you know the answer, it's $2000 per AP. $2500 MSRP.

I'd pay it if 3x and 4x modulations were suddenly 6x or 8x. But they're not.

 Original Message 
From: "Craig Schmaderer" 
Sent: 2/1/2024 10:40:30 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

$2000? Please tell me that is not per Access Point I could handle maybe 
that for all of them.
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature


?
This sector has a lot of long links, subs clustered in the middle of the 
sector, and several Ubiquiti WISPs in the same direction.? So the uplink
 modulation is poorer than downlink.? The SMs have narrow beams but the AP sees 
90 degrees.
?
The other case where we get uplink problems is in 3 GHz when Verizon lights up 
CBRS on a celltower, but we can (mostly) solve that by matching LTE
 timing.
?

From: AF 
On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

?

I haven't seen a 450M sector get bad uplink modulation rates without downlink 
getting trashed too unless it was caused by a misconfig on our end causing
 self interference.

?


On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 9:26?AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:





Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?? (Free 
30 day trial but license key is $2000.)
?
I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first 
impression is that it helps a little not a ton.? My uplink multiplexing gain
 was 1.0 so I figured I had nothing to lose.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

[Ken Hohhof]

When I was in college we had something called cooperative education or “coop 
jobs”, basically a semester in industry as a paid intern.  At my coop job you 
typically arrived at 8am, grabbed coffee from the machine, and turned on the 
power strip at your lab bench.

 

They never tired of sticking an electrolytic capacitor into one of the outlets 
on your power strip so it would explode.

 

Almost as much fun as a banana potato.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 10:16 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

 

I always used a potato.

 

bp


On 2/7/2024 7:48 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Variac is just an autotransformer with a variable tap. Not surprising you can 
swap input and output. Watch out for voltage ratings though. And wrong gender 
plugs.

I thought it was potato in the tailpipe.

 Original Message 
From: "Cameron Crum" 
Sent: 2/7/2024 9:15:03 AM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

Ah the old 'variac in reverse' trick, similar to a banana in the tailpipe. 

 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 6:05?PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today.  One of our 
employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a 
copper tube across an inductor to case ground.  It was probably 800 VDC at that 
spot.  Discharged the capacitor.  Sounded like a gunshot.  Tripped a 125 amp 
480 volt breaker at our power service panel.  Turning it off at the front 
switch just turns off the control circuitry.  Everything else is hot unless you 
kill the breaker on the back of the unit.  I think the kid is still shaking.  

 

In any event, took the power supply to the lab.  Used a variac to put 0 to 130 
volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I tested.  Never got 
past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps.  3 phase bridge rectifier was totally 
shorted out.  Exactly as expected.  These things take raw 480 VAC, rectifier, 
800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT transistors that chop it into ac etc.  I 
was hoping it was just the rectifier.

 

So we got the replacement today.  Put it in and started testing.  No current, 
all the way up to 130 volts.  But the cap was charging.  So far looks good.  
Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 480.  My son Frank said “just 
reverse your variac and use it to step up”.  I initially refused to believe it 
would work.  Then I thought through it a bit and decided that it actually 
should work.

 

I started with the variac set at 130 volts output.  Feeding 120 into the output 
gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase of the 
induction unit).  As I turned the variac down the voltage went up.  I got to 
380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful “Allen Bradley” wafting 
through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty bad.  I think I got it 
down to about 60 volts.  But we got it high enough out (in?)  that the control 
transformer made enough juice to power the control circuitry.  It appears that 
the machine is fixed.  Of course until we actually try to use it we will not 
know for certain.

 

But the TL;DR is:  You can run a variac backwards and make higher voltages.

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse

[Ken Hohhof]

Variac is just an autotransformer with a variable tap. Not surprising you can 
swap input and output. Watch out for voltage ratings though. And wrong gender 
plugs.I thought it was potato in the tailpipe. Original Message From: 
"Cameron Crum" Sent: 2/7/2024 9:15:03 AMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverseAh the old 'variac 
in reverse' trick, similar to a banana in the tailpipe.?On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 
6:05?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:



Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today.? One of our 
employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a 
copper tube across an inductor to case ground.? It was probably 800 VDC at 
that spot.? Discharged the capacitor.? Sounded like a gunshot.? 
Tripped a 125 amp 480 volt breaker at our power service panel.? Turning it 
off at the front switch just turns off the control circuitry.? Everything 
else is hot unless you kill the breaker on the back of the unit.? I think 
the kid is still shaking.? 
?
In any event, took the power supply to the lab.? Used a variac to put 
0 to 130 volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I 
tested.? Never got past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps.? 3 phase 
bridge rectifier was totally shorted out.? Exactly as expected.? These 
things take raw 480 VAC, rectifier, 800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT 
transistors that chop it into ac etc.? I was hoping it was just the 
rectifier.
?
So we got the replacement today.? Put it in and started testing.? 
No current, all the way up to 130 volts.? But the cap was charging.? 
So far looks good.? Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 
480.? My son Frank said ?just reverse your variac and use it to step 
up?.? I initially refused to believe it would work.? Then I thought 
through it a bit and decided that it actually should work.
?
I started with the variac set at 130 volts output.? Feeding 120 into 
the output gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase 
of the induction unit).? As I turned the variac down the voltage went 
up.? I got to 380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful ?Allen 
Bradley? wafting through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty 
bad.? I think I got it down to about 60 volts.? But we got it high 
enough out (in?)? that the control transformer made enough juice to power 
the control circuitry.? It appears that the machine is fixed.? Of 
course until we actually try to use it we will not know for certain.
?
But the TL;DR is:? You can run a variac backwards and make higher 
voltages.??? 
?
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

I think you know the answer, it's $2000 per AP. $2500 MSRP.I'd pay it if 3x and 
4x modulations were suddenly 6x or 8x. But they're not. Original Message 
From: "Craig Schmaderer" Sent: 2/1/2024 10:40:30 AMTo: "AnimalFarm 
Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference 
cancellation feature







$2000? Please tell me that is not per Access Point I could handle maybe 
that for all of them.
?


From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Ken Hohhof
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:58 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature


?
This sector has a lot of long links, subs clustered in the middle of the 
sector, and several Ubiquiti WISPs in the same direction.? So the uplink 
modulation is poorer than downlink.? The SMs have narrow beams but the AP sees 
90 degrees.
?
The other case where we get uplink problems is in 3 GHz when Verizon lights up 
CBRS on a celltower, but we can (mostly) solve that by matching LTE timing.
?

From: AF 
On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

?

I haven't seen a 450M sector get bad uplink modulation rates without downlink 
getting trashed too unless it was caused by a misconfig on our end causing self 
interference.

?


On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 9:26?AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:





Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?? (Free 
30 day trial but license key is $2000.)
?
I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first 
impression is that it helps a little not a ton.? My uplink multiplexing gain 
was 1.0 so I figured I had
 nothing to lose.


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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

This sector has a lot of long links, subs clustered in the middle of the 
sector, and several Ubiquiti WISPs in the same direction.  So the uplink 
modulation is poorer than downlink.  The SMs have narrow beams but the AP sees 
90 degrees.

 

The other case where we get uplink problems is in 3 GHz when Verizon lights up 
CBRS on a celltower, but we can (mostly) solve that by matching LTE timing.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:33 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

 

I haven't seen a 450M sector get bad uplink modulation rates without downlink 
getting trashed too unless it was caused by a misconfig on our end causing self 
interference.

 

On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 9:26 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?  (Free 
30 day trial but license key is $2000.)

 

I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first 
impression is that it helps a little not a ton.  My uplink multiplexing gain 
was 1.0 so I figured I had nothing to lose.

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[AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[Ken Hohhof]

Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?
(Free 30 day trial but license key is $2000.)

 

I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first
impression is that it helps a little not a ton.  My uplink multiplexing gain
was 1.0 so I figured I had nothing to lose.

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Re: [AFMUG] APC PDU and V-Lock

[Ken Hohhof]

Sorry, the only PDUs I’ve encountered had ordinary NEMA 5-15R or 5-20R 
receptacles.

 

Lots of equipment with IEC connectors but at the other end of the power cord.  
Like HP servers or Mikrotik routers, often with the wire bail that you can flip 
over the plug to lock it in place.  I don’t think I have a single power cord 
that’s IEC on both ends.  Are IEC connectors like metric rack screws now, 
standard unless you’re a dinosaur?  Or are those PDUs a space saving approach 
in datacenter cabinets?  One thing’s for sure, you’re not going to plug any 
wall warts into them unless you have a shorty power cable.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC PDU and V-Lock

 

Thanks.

Maybe nobody here has had V-Lock PDU’s?  I don’t know if it’s the general case 
that they’re looser, or is it just this particular PDU (or the cord).

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2024 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] APC PDU and V-Lock

 

We had some cords that could get pulled out in a couple of data centers, and we 
ended up rigging a "holder" of sorts with zip-ties. Made it a PITA to pull the 
occasional cord, but we never had one fall out, and we didn't have to resort to 
someones proprietary cord lock.

 

bp


On 1/30/2024 5:24 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com   wrote:

I’m guessing this group has collectively seen everything.  Equipment was 
installed in leased cabinet space in a data center just about 18 months ago.  
The data center has APC PDU’s installed in the racks.  Visual aid: 



My colleague went there today because two servers were both intermittently 
reporting loss of AC input on one power supply.  Both were in the same PDU and 
both were loose.  He checked all the other cords while he was there and found a 
few other loose ones.  He mentioned it to one of the data center employees who 
said we should get “V-Lock” cords.  

I’ve never seen one of those IEC power connectors fall out by itself, so it’s 
bizarre that multiples did simultaneously.  I looked up V-Lock and it’s 
apparently a proprietary locking mechanism by Schurter.  Apparently V-Lock 
receptacles have a cutout on the inside of the wider flat side of the 
connector….the side which is usually up on a PC.  A V-Lock cord has a tab that 
clicks into that cutout, and you have to press a button to release the tab.  I 
don’t have the APC model number, but the cluster of six C13 receptacles on the 
APC PDU does look exactly like this item from the Schurter catalog: 
https://www.schurter.com/en/datasheet/4751.  So it probably is a V-Lock.

So locking cords sounds great, but I’ve never needed one before.   Do the 
locking receptacles have less holding power than the normal IEC ones? I’m 
thinking maybe that cutout could let the plastic socket spread out more than 
normal.  

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

[Ken Hohhof]

A live camera of your finished goods shelves would be more fun.  j/k 
Original Message From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" Sent: 1/30/2024 
10:26:56 AMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 
Packetflux delivery timesWe used to do pretty good at almost always having 
stock, and if we ran out of something the replenishment stock was only a few 
days from being on the shelf.?Then 2020 happened, and then supply chain crap 
happened, and a thousand other things seemed to conspire to prevent us from 
getting back to that state.??The good news is that it looks like we're close to 
being back to just having stock.? ?Right this second,? the inventory 
spreadsheet seems to think we have,? on average, 15 days of stock.? ?That 
doesn't mean we currently have 15 days worth of everything.? ?It's more like of 
30 days of one thing and almost nothing of something else.?I have every 
expectation we'll be up to 60 days pretty much across the board in another 
couple months.? ?As far as the website not reporting stock, there's a whole set 
of stories there which are more of an in person discussion.? Suffice it to say 
we wish it did too.On Tue, Jan 30, 2024, 7:45 AM Tyson Burris 
 wrote:







Yes, it?s a fairly common problem.? I have gone 2-4 weeks at times.? I do wish 
his website reported stock.? I usually just assume a few weeks anymore.
?
?




Tyson Burris?
President & CEO?


?




Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131?
?
317-412-1540
 (emergency/after-hours)?
317-738-0320?(office)
? t...@franklinisp.net?
??www.surfici.net?
?





?
Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions ? Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras 
- Fiber ? MDUs?

?
Active Member To The Following:
?
WISPA
NBBC
?
Confidentiality Notice:

?
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
you are not the intended
 recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or 
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this 
email in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from 
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?
No Binding Agreement:
?
This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it 
specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized 
agreement signed by both parties.
 Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of mine alone 
and do not necessarily represent those of the company. If you have any doubts 
about the validity or enforceability of any agreement or arrangement discussed 
in this email, please
 consult with an attorney.
?

From: AF  On Behalf Of 
Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2024 9:38 AM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: [AFMUG] Packetflux delivery times

?

Has anyone ordered a Site Monitor this month?? I'm at 2 weeks of pending order 
and haven't heard anything.

?


I didn't want to open a Tech support ticket, Forrest.? I don't mean to call you 
out but I figured we're all friends here.








Josh Luthman

24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373








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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: New Cambium HQ

[Ken Hohhof]

Probably just my weird first impression when I visited the building.  It’s got 
an open interior with walkways across the 2nd floor.  My other impression was 
it was like a shopping mall.  Or a scene from Star Wars.  But it’s a relatively 
new building and did house R types so it should be a good home for Cambium.  
Better than the stupid Bell Labs building in Naperville with all the glass that 
they just demolished.

 

Is Cambium still in the 3800 Golf Rd. building?  I worked for about a year for 
3Com (formerly US Robotics) in Mt. Prospect but I occasionally went to the 
Rolling Meadows building for meetings.  Strange building, I think it was a 
former AT building (old AT) that went through a major facelift at some 
point.  Sounds like it’s going to be demolished and redeveloped into warehouses 
or a data center?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: New Cambium HQ

 

Really nice prison...  Is it the place Ken is thinking of?

 

Always good to have engineering and admin in the same place.  

 

From: Ray Savich via AF 

Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:45 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: Ray Savich 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: New Cambium HQ

 

The move is in progress. We will for sure have videos and we will welcome a 
visit any time.

 

Ray

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:41 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ

 

I was drawing a blank on AT HQ in Hoffman Estates and “Bell Works” until I 
realized that’s the former “Ameritech Center” building.  In other words, new 
AT, not old AT  I think I’ve been in the building once or twice, probably 
in the late 1990’s when I worked at Westell and the building was new.  I was on 
the DSL standards subcommittee and Tom Starr of Ameritech was the chairperson, 
so likely I was meeting with him.  I remember it as the somewhat weird building 
with the catwalks.  Kind of like a really nice prison.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ

 

I saw an article in the local paper this morning that Cambium is moving their 
HQ into the Old AT HQ (Bell Works) in Hoffman Estates.  It mentioned that 
this will allow them to have both Corporate and Engineering at the same site. 
Hope we get some tours of their new space once it's up and running.  

Excerpt below from 
https://www.dailyherald.com/20240128/business/a-game-changer-bell-works-chicagoland-in-hoffman-estates-ready-to-add-homes/
 (Possibly Paywalled)

 

"wireless infrastructure provider Cambium Networks moving its U.S. headquarters 
from Rolling Meadows to Bell Works. The Motorola spinoff’s 35,000 square feet 
currently under renovation was not only the largest new lease of 2023 at Bell 
Works but takes advantage of a novel opportunity to have its corporate offices 
and engineering labs on the same property.

“Here we’ve married the two,” Zucker said. “They’ve brought both of their uses 
together. The village modified the zoning here to accommodate that.”

The company’s research and development will be conducted in newly equipped 
space on the first floor, with its offices and conference rooms on the fourth.

Cambium Networks Senior Engineer Evan Boyack said there are few facilities that 
could offer the combination of space. The international company has a desire to 
stay in Chicago’s Northwest suburbs because it remains the base of the talent 
pool Motorola attracted there.

Amenities such as the Fairgrounds World’s Fair restaurant and bar were another 
attraction of Bell Works, he added.

“Having these amenities helps bring our engineers back to the office,” Boyack 
said."

  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ

[Ken Hohhof]

I was drawing a blank on AT HQ in Hoffman Estates and “Bell Works” until I 
realized that’s the former “Ameritech Center” building.  In other words, new 
AT, not old AT  I think I’ve been in the building once or twice, probably 
in the late 1990’s when I worked at Westell and the building was new.  I was on 
the DSL standards subcommittee and Tom Starr of Ameritech was the chairperson, 
so likely I was meeting with him.  I remember it as the somewhat weird building 
with the catwalks.  Kind of like a really nice prison.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ

 

I saw an article in the local paper this morning that Cambium is moving their 
HQ into the Old AT HQ (Bell Works) in Hoffman Estates.  It mentioned that 
this will allow them to have both Corporate and Engineering at the same site. 
Hope we get some tours of their new space once it's up and running.  

Excerpt below from 
https://www.dailyherald.com/20240128/business/a-game-changer-bell-works-chicagoland-in-hoffman-estates-ready-to-add-homes/
 (Possibly Paywalled)

 

"wireless infrastructure provider Cambium Networks moving its U.S. headquarters 
from Rolling Meadows to Bell Works. The Motorola spinoff’s 35,000 square feet 
currently under renovation was not only the largest new lease of 2023 at Bell 
Works but takes advantage of a novel opportunity to have its corporate offices 
and engineering labs on the same property.

“Here we’ve married the two,” Zucker said. “They’ve brought both of their uses 
together. The village modified the zoning here to accommodate that.”

The company’s research and development will be conducted in newly equipped 
space on the first floor, with its offices and conference rooms on the fourth.

Cambium Networks Senior Engineer Evan Boyack said there are few facilities that 
could offer the combination of space. The international company has a desire to 
stay in Chicago’s Northwest suburbs because it remains the base of the talent 
pool Motorola attracted there.

Amenities such as the Fairgrounds World’s Fair restaurant and bar were another 
attraction of Bell Works, he added.

“Having these amenities helps bring our engineers back to the office,” Boyack 
said."

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Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Ken Hohhof]

True.

 

1976-1988 were my Rockwell years.  Back then, benefits were key to hiring and 
retention, and the big 3 were (1) 401K match, (2) “cafeteria” health insurance, 
and (3) tuition reimbursement.

 

My recollection is they matched 401K contributions dollar-for-dollar up to 3% 
of income.  That’s a no-brainer, basically free money, and a way for the 
company to incent people to put some money away tax-deferred for retirement 
rather than assuming they can live on Social Security alone.  But not entirely 
altruistic, I believe that was a safe harbor to avoid a test whether too much 
of the tax benefit was going to higher earners, managers and owners.

 

But that was long, long ago.

 

Oh, and tuition reimbursement was interesting.  If I remember right, you got 
100% for an A, 75% for a B, 50% for a C, and zilch for a D or F.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 8:14 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

People don't always know what is best for them.   But fully funding an IRA 
would be a way to funnel money to them without taxes that might be appreciated 
when they do their taxes..

On 1/28/24 6:09 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

I would be a bit surprised if anyone that works on my shop floor would prefer 
that.  We only have 25 employees and they are mostly welders etc.  I wonder if 
any of them even have an IRA.

 

 

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:53 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

Fully fund IRAs?

On 1/28/24 5:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Thanks Ken,

No stock options.  I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that are 
putting in the sweat equity.  Still not sure about production based bonuses.  
Should everyone get the same amount?

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and 
Christmas bonuses.  Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a 
huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest 
pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot.  I suspect 
some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft.

 

My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term.  They 
have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they 
probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock 
options.  Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as 
transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the 
owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos).

 

So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing 
already.  If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I 
wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an 
incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like 
Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”).  And I’d make it fairly short term, like 
monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes 
of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year.

 

If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at 
least for hourly employees.  Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them 
might move elsewhere.

 

The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is 
likely to have at least 5 good years coming.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout 
machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of 
vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no software involved.  Just a 
little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic 
transmission.  This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 
years of running some kind of hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other 
related antennas and hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident 
that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were 
radio specific.

 

But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles 
for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do give bonuses.  
I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll.  Only happened once about 30 
years ago, but that is a bad deal.  And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to 
layoff everyone.  But I digress.  

 

What would y’all suggest as a way to reward emp

Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Ken Hohhof]

Maybe others will have answers to that question, sounds like tricky territory.

 

Do you have salespeople, and are they already getting performance based pay?  
That’s the one exception that comes to my mind, but you could argue both sides 
of that one also.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:18 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

Thanks Ken,

No stock options.  I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that are 
putting in the sweat equity.  Still not sure about production based bonuses.  
Should everyone get the same amount?

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and 
Christmas bonuses.  Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a 
huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest 
pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot.  I suspect 
some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft.

 

My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term.  They 
have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they 
probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock 
options.  Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as 
transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the 
owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos).

 

So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing 
already.  If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I 
wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an 
incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like 
Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”).  And I’d make it fairly short term, like 
monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes 
of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year.

 

If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at 
least for hourly employees.  Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them 
might move elsewhere.

 

The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is 
likely to have at least 5 good years coming.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout 
machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of 
vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no software involved.  Just a 
little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic 
transmission.  This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 
years of running some kind of hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other 
related antennas and hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident 
that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were 
radio specific.

 

But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles 
for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do give bonuses.  
I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll.  Only happened once about 30 
years ago, but that is a bad deal.  And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to 
layoff everyone.  But I digress.  

 

What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going 
well?  I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months.  I could give 
substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting 
tight again.  Maybe that is totally unfounded.  I know when things started 
going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him.

 

I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to 
distribute that evenly?  Should everyone get the same amount?  And how to 
relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is 
doing?  Or should I just give really nice raises this go around?  Or both?  I 
guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for 
us.  I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a 
one way street.  You really cannot cut pay.

 

I want employees to prosper and do better personally.  I wonder if my fears are 
justified.  I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain 
points in your life, how did they accomplish this.  I know some of you have 
really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole 
sharin

Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

[Ken Hohhof]

I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and 
Christmas bonuses.  Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a 
huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest 
pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot.  I suspect 
some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft.

 

My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term.  They 
have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they 
probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock 
options.  Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as 
transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the 
owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos).

 

So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing 
already.  If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I 
wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an 
incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like 
Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”).  And I’d make it fairly short term, like 
monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes 
of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year.

 

If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at 
least for hourly employees.  Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them 
might move elsewhere.

 

The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is 
likely to have at least 5 good years coming.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees

 

My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout 
machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of 
vacuum excavator has gone extremely well.  Almost no software involved.  Just a 
little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic 
transmission.  This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 
years of running some kind of hustle.  And those years of the stinger and other 
related antennas and hardware were not bad at all.  I am a bit more confident 
that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were 
radio specific.

 

But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles 
for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay.  I do give bonuses.  
I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll.  Only happened once about 30 
years ago, but that is a bad deal.  And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to 
layoff everyone.  But I digress.  

 

What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going 
well?  I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months.  I could give 
substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting 
tight again.  Maybe that is totally unfounded.  I know when things started 
going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him.

 

I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to 
distribute that evenly?  Should everyone get the same amount?  And how to 
relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is 
doing?  Or should I just give really nice raises this go around?  Or both?  I 
guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for 
us.  I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a 
one way street.  You really cannot cut pay.

 

I want employees to prosper and do better personally.  I wonder if my fears are 
justified.  I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain 
points in your life, how did they accomplish this.  I know some of you have 
really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole 
sharing the wealth thing.  

 

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench-blades.com  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Ken Hohhof]

Consider my socks blown off.Do you need 2 of them, one for each strand? Does it 
go at the xmt end, or the rcv end, or doesn't matter? I'm assuming you don't 
need 4 total. Original Message From: "Daniel Pautz via AF" Sent: 
1/24/2024 5:00:29 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: "Daniel Pautz" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels







Dispersion compensation module -
https://www.fs.com/products/65783.html
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:53 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels


?
I spent a few minutes searching on the term DCM and came up with ?chirped fiber 
Bragg grating?.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Bragg_grating
?
OK, I?m out of my depth now.
?
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels


?
Perhaps pick up a used cheap DCM and see if it helps,? adjustable? preferred if 
not as close to the fiber distance.?? Our newest 100G dwdm build (dozen 100G 
optics) very much
 needed a DCM on it.?? 
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:36 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels


?



Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse.? Yes group velocities or group 
delay of the whole enchalada.? It is all kinda the same thing.? They were doing 
some kind of soliton
 fiber development.? Haven?t heard much for some time about that.? No idea how 
frequency pure/coherent the tx is.? I imagine phase coherency is a big deal.



?


?




?



From: Ken Hohhof



Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:12 PM


To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels




?



Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities, so 
compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?).
?
Is this because the transmitter doesn?t generate literally a single 
wavelength?? Or is this a WDM issue?? Chuck says the pulses get smeared out in 
time, that sounds like the first one.
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels


?



Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much 
dispersion.? Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues.?



?



From: Josh Luthman





Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM


To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels




?




Even if the RX level is good?

> rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides


?



On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22?PM Daniel Pautz via AF  wrote:





Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.?? We have had that on 
mirrored paths,? or even single paths with
 crappy splices on one of the strands.? 
?


From: AF 
On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels


?



Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber?


?


Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com




?




From: Zach Underwood




Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM



To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group




Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels




?




tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes 
on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link
 up. This will do for now. We will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane 
optics or adding another site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 
40km.



?



On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14?AM Colin Stanners  wrote:




So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range.



?


100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation 
fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a
 box style at one end. 

?


You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the 
max they can do for that specific unit.

?


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood  wrote:





TX Power??
2~6.5dBm


?


I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 
31 miles. The rx levels
 are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to link. I take the same 
optics to the lab and add 20dbm of
attenuator to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up.


I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for 
links over 40km.

So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options 
are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For m

Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Ken Hohhof]

I spent a few minutes searching on the term DCM and came up with “chirped fiber 
Bragg grating”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Bragg_grating

 

OK, I’m out of my depth now.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Daniel Pautz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:40 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Daniel Pautz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Perhaps pick up a used cheap DCM and see if it helps,  adjustable  preferred if 
not as close to the fiber distance.   Our newest 100G dwdm build (dozen 100G 
optics) very much needed a DCM on it.   

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:36 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse.  Yes group velocities or group 
delay of the whole enchalada.  It is all kinda the same thing.  They were doing 
some kind of soliton fiber development.  Haven’t heard much for some time about 
that.  No idea how frequency pure/coherent the tx is.  I imagine phase 
coherency is a big deal. 

 

 

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:12 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities, so 
compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?).

 

Is this because the transmitter doesn’t generate literally a single wavelength? 
 Or is this a WDM issue?  Chuck says the pulses get smeared out in time, that 
sounds like the first one.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much 
dispersion.  Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Even if the RX level is good?

> rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.   We have had that on 
mirrored paths,  or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the 
strands.  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber?

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

 

From: Zach Underwood 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes 
on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We will be 
looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another site to fiber 
loop to shorten the footage to under 40km. 

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners mailto:cstann...@gmail.com> > wrote:

So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range. 

 

100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation 
fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end. 

 

You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the 
max they can do for that specific unit.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com> > wrote:


TX Power   2~6.5dBm

 

I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 
31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to 
link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator to get 
almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up. 

I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for 
links over 40km.

So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options 
are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me this is the 
first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km. 

switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R

 

https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf

Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[Ken Hohhof]

Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities, so 
compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?).

 

Is this because the transmitter doesn’t generate literally a single wavelength? 
 Or is this a WDM issue?  Chuck says the pulses get smeared out in time, that 
sounds like the first one.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much 
dispersion.  Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Even if the RX level is good?

> rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss.   We have had that on 
mirrored paths,  or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the 
strands.  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber?

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com  
www.microtrench-blades.com  
www.terabitnetworks.com  

 

From: Zach Underwood 

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

 

tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes 
on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We will be 
looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another site to fiber 
loop to shorten the footage to under 40km. 

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners mailto:cstann...@gmail.com> > wrote:

So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range. 

 

100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation 
fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end. 

 

You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the 
max they can do for that specific unit.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com> > wrote:


TX Power   2~6.5dBm

 

I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 
31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to 
link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator to get 
almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up. 

I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for 
links over 40km.

So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options 
are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me this is the 
first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km. 

switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R

 

https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf
https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032 
 =3462585

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners mailto:cstann...@gmail.com> > wrote:

There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood mailto:zunder1...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.

 

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  
Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






  _  


From: "Zach Underwood" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power levels 
one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista devices hosting 
the optics is the same. 

 

Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is 
small due to the optices costing $4k each

 

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 

My website

advance-networking.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[Ken Hohhof]

We run into this at farms and grain elevators that often have 240 or 480 
3-phase.  We are on the grain leg at one farm where there is only the 3 legs no 
neutral.  We checked with Phoenix Contact and the power supply we used can 
accept L1 and L2 on the terminals labeled L and N (actually a Trio DC  UPS, 
this is an old old site).  Not sure how common this is, or if our Mean Wells 
and Tracos would get fried if we tried that.  I wish they wouldn’t label one 
side N if it doesn’t actually have to be the neutral.

 

Most of these sites have an indoor transformer for their 120V lighting and 
convenience outlets.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 3:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

 

Another option, 208 Y but 32 volt boost transformers on devices that need 240.  
Have done that before too.  I always consider boost and buck a slick trick.  

 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:43 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

 

You a few choices for 3 phase mixed with 120 single phase.  Stinger center 
tapped winding on a Delta lets you have single phase 120/240 between two legs 
of the delta.  

But this also means you have 240 three phase all the way around where many 3 
phase loads are nominally spec’d at 208.  Probably not a problem but could be 
for some loads.

You also have one leg that is 208 to ground that you might accidentally connect 
to a 120 device.  That is the high leg.  

 

Another choice is a 208 Y configuration.  Each leg is 120 to ground but two of 
those 120 legs are 208 across them instead of 240.  While many 240 loads will 
be OK with 208 some will not.  All your 208 3 phase loads will be happy.  

 

The third choice is a 208 to 240 center tapped transformer.  Then your 208 can 
stay 208 and you can still get true 120/240.  The only downside other than the 
extra expense is the imbalance it puts on the 3 phase line.   My shop is full 
of transformers.  480 to 208.  480 to 240 single phase.  Etc.  

 

Or you could have the power company give you 3 phase and single phase service 
without all of this other baloney.  

 

 

 

From: Mark Radabaugh 

Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:18 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

 

 





On Jan 8, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:khoh...@kwom.com> > wrote:

 

What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg 
delta.

 

 

I don’t think that one is hard to understand, other then the ‘why the hell did 
someone center tap a delta let anyway?Ok, I have designed systems that way 
but eventually somebody will blow something up with it given enough time.

 

(it’s useful when you need small quantities of single phase power in an 
otherwise 3 phase system)

 

Mark

 

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Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[Ken Hohhof]

I would think many of us have both 24V and 48V in the same rack or cabinet.  We 
started out 24V, then mixed, now able to do most sites all 48V, but lots of 
mixed 24 and 48 out there.  I think of -48 as just another voltage to keep 
straight.  If I power a radio or router with 48-56 volts that is intended for 
24-30V, bad things will happen.  Not sure what there is about polarity that 
drives people crazy.

 

What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg 
delta.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

 

The ICT shelves come in both +48v and -48v flavors.  Usually the positive 
version has a P on the end of the model.  An ICT-2U4 would be negative, and an 
ICT-2U4P is positive.  You can mix both -48 and +48 loads at one site, but you 
need an isolated DC-DC converter such as a Meanwell RSD-500C-48.

 

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:26 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies mailto:m...@mailmt.com> > wrote:

I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it.

-48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct?

It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC 

There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery, correct?

How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they be 
used on -48VDC equipment?

I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of 
equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC.


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 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com  

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com  


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Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[Ken Hohhof]

What I can never decide on is wire colors.  Especially when using red/black
zipcord or tray cable.  People expect red to be +, but they also expect
black to be ground (except electricians who expect black to be hot and white
to be neutral and green or green/yellow to be ground).  And how to
differentiate battery wiring from load wiring.  I have not found an ideal
solution other than labels.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:45 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

Yes. -48VDC means the negative side is hot, and the positive side is ground
(or return).

You can mix +48VDC and -48VDC if you know what you're doing. It helps a
bunch if the equipment floats logic ground. You need to check to see if your
equipment isolates logic from the supply voltage.

Yes. Batteries can be grounded either way. They don't care.

bp


On 1/8/2024 8:25 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
> I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it.
>
> -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct?
>
> It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC
>
> There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery,
correct?
>
> How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they
be used on -48VDC equipment?
>
> I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of
equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[Ken Hohhof]

Most AC/DC and DC/DC power supplies have input/output isolation and neither
side of the output grounded unless/until you ground one side.  If you ground
the - side, then it's referred to as +48V.  If you ground the + side, then
it's -48V.

Fancier equipment with stuff like management interfaces may be dedicated as
+48V or -48V, I have an Eltek Micropack system that can only be used as
-48V.  Lots of stuff from the telecom world may be that way.  Something like
a Mean Well power supply will almost certainly be floating until you ground
one side of the output.

I know a WISP guy who tends to power all his DC+fiber radios with individual
AC/DC power supplies and doesn't ground them.  I am a traditionalist and
want all my power supplies ground referenced, but it seems to work for him.
I guess you could argue it prevents ground loops.

Where we typically run into problems is with the loads like radios and
routers, sometimes they are floating and don't care, some have the + side
grounded, some have the - side grounded.  Chuck was probably saying to check
with an ohmmeter from DC+ and DC- to chassis ground.  I have also been lucky
that when I got it wrong, it just popped a fuse and no magic smoke escaped.
Hopefully you individually fuse all your loads.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:26 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it.

-48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct?

It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC 

There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery, correct?

How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they be
used on -48VDC equipment?

I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of
equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC.


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 Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Communications
www.Myakka.com


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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4 batts now.
I got one the other day for this one:
https://www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate
d-bluetooth-victron-comms

12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".  That's a
lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are rated 225
Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a chore.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID set by
dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
battery to pull data points of interest. Take a look at this battery, it
supports CANBUS, RS-485, and chaining batteries with battery ID's set by dip
switch. 

https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-ll-s-48v-100ah-server-rack-battery/

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 2:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 
> years ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on
manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm
batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
&

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

It's kind of an awkward situation.  Suppose you have 4 batteries total, each
with their own internal BMS.  Do you want to monitor each battery?  Maybe.
My first impression is no.  But perhaps knowing that battery #3 has a
problem would be a good thing, like your car telling you all the tires are
at 34 psi except front right is at 26 psi.  Chuck's forklift probably just
has one battery (and no SNMP).

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 4:42 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Somebody could make a bluetooth to SNMP adapter/converter or something. 
Nah, that would be too hard.


bp


On 1/3/2024 2:37 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:
> There are rack mount LiFePO4 batteries with other options than Bluetooth.
> RS232, RS485, and HTTP/SNMP are available with LiFEPO4 batteries built 
> in BMS systems.. The HTTP/SNMP ones are the hardest to find, pretty 
> much all support RS232/CANBUS. Some inverter/rectifier shelf vendors 
> now support
> RS485 monitoring of your battery strings natively.
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 12:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.
>
> One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm 
> seeing ads claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't 
> speak from experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.
>
> I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of 
> controls and stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge 
> controllers like Alpha, Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery 
> control module at a remote site if it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for
initial commissioning?
>
>  Original Message 
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the 
> combination of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look
seriously at LiFePo4.
> For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery 
> packs with a charge controller and management built in.  You can then 
> disable the temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other 
> smart/fancy stuff the rectifier would do and just let it serve as a 
> power supply and distribution device.
>
> There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in 
> replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier 
> and just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that 
> institutional momentum thing again.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka 
> Technologies
> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> Happy New Year
>
> I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 
> years ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on
manufacturers?
> What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm
batteries?
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[Ken Hohhof]

Conservatism and institutional momentum, well said. Same here.

One issue apparently is can't charge them below 0 degrees C. But I'm seeing ads 
claiming internal heaters and temperature controls. Can't speak from 
experience, I just put in a bunch more AGMs.

I also see from specs a lot about Bluetooth. I'm used to lots of controls and 
stats via web and SNMP from some of the high end charge controllers like Alpha, 
Eltek, ICT. How do you access the battery control module at a remote site if 
it's Bluetooth? Or is that just for initial commissioning?

 Original Message 
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: 1/3/2024 1:25:16 PM
To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

We're still building with VRLA batteries...but that's just the combination
of conservatism and institutional momentum.  I'd look seriously at LiFePo4.
For compatibility with existing rectifiers you'd look for battery packs with
a charge controller and management built in.  You can then disable the
temperature comp, equalization, or whatever other smart/fancy stuff the
rectifier would do and just let it serve as a power supply and distribution
device.  

There's a devil on my shoulder telling me that with Lithium drop in
replacements with integrated controllers I can eliminate the rectifier and
just get a beefy 48V power supply and a PDU.  But there's that institutional
momentum thing again.

-Adam


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

Happy New Year

I need to build a new -48v power plant.  Last one I did was about 7 years
ago.  I know things have changed.  Any recommendations on manufacturers?
What are thoughts about LiFePO batteries vs the standard telcomm batteries?


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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Ken Hohhof]

Nice. And making GPS+GALILEO the default seems eminently reasonable.I will also 
say the new (as of several years ago) web interface on the Rackinjector is very 
nice, and the SiteMonitor Base 3 has the same interface. Leaps and bounds 
better than the Base 2. If like me you still have a bunch of the older ones in 
service, it's worth the price to upgrade. From a hardware perspective, it's a 
direct replacement. In my case it's laziness, not cost, I just need to find the 
time and go do it. Original Message From: "Forrest Christian (List 
Account)" Sent: 1/1/2024 8:16:17 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ken HohofThe short version is this:Some US laws and 
regulations basically require a license for "receive-only earth stations," 
which operate with any non-US satellite service.? ?This, unfortunately, 
includes GNSS systems such as GALILEO and GLONASS.? The link Ken provided ( 
https://www.gps.gov/spectrum/foreign/ ) is a good spot to describe the 
government's position and provide links to the CFR sections about this and so 
on.However, the problem?is that the FCC only started making noise about GNSS 
being affected by this a few years ago. By then, thousands, if not millions, of 
GPS+GLONASS receivers were operating in the US.? Trying to stuff that back in 
the bag is not really possible.? And?it's getting harder and harder as more are 
added every day.The official legal status is that GPS is fine (obviously).? In 
addition, there is a waiver process that foreign systems can go through, and 
GALILEO (and only GALILEO) has completed that.? ?So we're left with GPS+GALILEO 
being the only multi-GNSS system with the US government stamp of approval.? ?I 
doubt we will ever see any enforcement actions here as almost every single 
American has an unlicensed ground station in their pocket (as you pointed 
out).??There are other reasons why GLONASS, in particular, isn't an ideal GNSS 
system for the timing applications we use.? ?The main technical one is that the 
specified GLONASS-UTC offset is up to 1ms (1/1000th of a second), whereas GPS 
and GALILEO are better than 1us (1 millionth of a second).? ?In fairness to 
GLONASS, they are typically under 1uS as well, but their offset is usually 
bigger than either GPS or GALILEO (with GALILEO typically being the best).? 
?But the summary is that adding GLONASS to GPS tends to slightly reduce the 
precision of the timing signal, and adding GALILEO typically improves it.? 
??I've purposely ignored the geopolitical issues here, but I will state this:? 
I'm also not 100% comfortable with using a system that relies on Russia not 
deciding to intentionally mess with the signals from GLONASS.This all adds up 
to the reason why I decided to switch the defaults to all GPS+GALILEO.? It's 
guaranteed to be actually legal.? Technically GPS+GLONASS is a better choice 
than GPS+GALILEO.? And finally, GALILEO doesn't roll their date over every 4 
years, causing issues.On Mon, Jan 1, 2024 at 3:14?PM Josh Luthman 
 wrote:US cell phones have GLONASS support.? What 
makes you say there's a legal question?On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 6:10?PM Forrest 
Christian (List Account)  wrote:Some customers wanted the 
added redundancy that comes with more satellites.? The irony of the thing which 
we changed to improve reliability biting one in the rear with this issue is not 
lost on me.At this point, everything is going out with GPS+GALILEO since there 
is some question about if it is even legal to operate a GLONASS receiver in the 
USA.On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 2:26?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:



What is the benefit to using glonass?
For timing is not GPS good enough?
?


?

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 10:10 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
?

Well hopefully most everything can be remotely handled.? 
?
I'm really really hoping that the fix my current GPS vendor provided 
actually survives the rollover.? Otherwise this is going to be a much 
bigger mess. 
?
I really wish multi GNSS simulators weren't so expensive.?? Like 
costs more than we make on syncboxes for a couple/few years 
expensive.?? They're also not available to lease for any reasonable 
price.? As a result I get to trust that my vendor did exactly the right 
thing here. 
?
I'm hanging around the phone for the inevitable panicked call from the 
customer who ignored (or didn't get) all of the messages we sent out.? 

?

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023, 9:07 AM Ken Hohhof 
 wrote:
Hi 
  all.? Happy New Year.? I have to do GLONASS fixups at 3pm today, 
  theforecast is freezing rain.? Yay!-Original 
  Message-From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via 
  AFSent: Sunday, December 31, 2023 12:08 AMTo: af@af.afmug.comCc: Chuck McCown 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ken 
  HohofEverbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!Sent from my 
  iPhone-- AF mailing 
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