Re: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting

[Steve Jones]

This is 3 ghz, different freznel. But I think it may be slant, or maybe
that was the 320. It's been a long time since I onboarded that system.
It's hard to get techs to understand for sure. I always wanted to set up a
water tray use the ripples to show destructive and constructive miltipath
and the different ways freznel obstruction/reflectivity impacts the
receiver side

On Tue, May 14, 2024, 9:30 AM  wrote:

> I can’t remember, is the 450 slant polarity?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 13, 2024 12:41 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting
>
>
>
> yep, til we switch to 450 we had one customer like this. the coolest part
> was you could watch him harvest his field by his rssi. it was a perfect
> example customer. two radios about 10 feet apart on the roof, each only
> worked half the year
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2024, 3:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
> Way back in the early days of FSK we did a poor mans spacial diversity for
> a customer.  Put an SM on either end of his roof, and told him to switch
> cables if it stopped working.
>
> On 5/10/2024 3:53 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Yep, been hearing this for the last 20 years.
>
> Has to have something to do with ground reflections changing with the
> crop.
>
> A space diversity setup would cure it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 10, 2024 2:34 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Multi-path, Reflections, and Ducting
>
>
>
> For those of you who don't have to deal with it, whatever it's called,
> this is what us flatlanders have to put up with.At the top of the pipe,
> the radio would only get a maximum of -76, at it's current height, it's at
> -59.  All happened last week when that hayfield grew.  Signal was fine
> before then, and it steadily lost signal all last week.  (It is LOS to the
> tower, the tower is just directly in line with the pipe in the picture)
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Steve Jones]

Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> My google-foo says it can be:
>
> Kevin
> Ken
> Gary
> Terry
>
> but I like Darren too.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria
> Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:calibri;
> panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:aptos;}@font-face
> {font-family:tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}p.msonormal,
> li.msonormal, div.msonormal {margin:0in; font-size:12.0pt;
> font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}a:link, span.msohyperlink
> {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue;
> text-decoration:underline;}span.emailstyle20
> {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;
> color:windowtext;}.msochpdefault {mso-style-type:export-only;
> font-size:10.0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.wordsection1 {page:wordsection1;}
>
> “I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is
> it Darren?)
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> I have always had employees that were in rehab.  But never had anyone
> using at work before this guy.  He pointed to the fact he has a pot card
> for anxiety.  I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy
> whisky too, but I doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask
> while working.
>
>
>
> I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to
> operate equipment.  But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his
> job.  I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds
> temporarily that left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.
>
>
>
> This guy was MAX drama too.  One thing I tell everyone when I hire them,
> the only thing I really care about is no drama.  Do not bring your drama to
> work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18?AM  wrote:
>
> I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in
> someone’s work schedule.
>
> …..which I would do anyway.  If they’re working on getting straight I
> don’t want to stand in their way.  I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for
> pot though.  Probably not.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..
>
>
>
> "Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the
> use of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to
> have policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or
> employees."
>
>
>
> There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that
> marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42?PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow
> them to partake at work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[Steve Jones]

Librenms is the easiest NMS to set up, its a pita to add OIDs to it outside
the learning curve. SNMPc from castlerock was the best for responsive snmp
monitoring, could execute all kinds of stuff based on snmpc conditions, the
dude could probably be set up somewhat similar. I despise
proprietary monitoring from vendors device families because they end
support on long life products. NMS snmp monitoring is my
preferred solution, only one communications channel to ensure it is
functioning properly and only one alert channel to maintain. Every time I
come across something proprietary i try to tell it to get off my lawn

site monitors are good contact monitors, simple, but the oid structure is a
little archaic since you have to add the index for each module, but
theyre like a fat girl, ugly but reliable as hell and always there at
dinnertime. We used to use the site monitor input 2 to monitor for voltage.
had power supply that was generator only, so we would get an alert when it
ran the monthly test and put power to that input and when sites would lose
power and go on generator.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:45 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
> has.
>
> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
> stuff out there we should be looking at?
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Pot

[Steve Jones]

lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment

On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18 AM  wrote:

> I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in
> someone’s work schedule.
>
> …..which I would do anyway.  If they’re working on getting straight I
> don’t want to stand in their way.  I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for
> pot though.  Probably not.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Pot
>
>
>
> Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..
>
>
>
> "Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the
> use of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to
> have policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or
> employees."
>
>
>
> There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that
> marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow
> them to partake at work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Won One

[Steve Jones]

I want to do drops for metronet. just kick dirt on the fiber.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:29 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> MetroNet does the same thing.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, April 29, 2024 1:09:01 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Won One
>
> From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no
> other choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a
> different crew to do every micro-step of an installation.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss
> leader service.
>
> He lasted a couple months.
>
> He said their customer service is non existent.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] sale bulk used Mikrotik swtiches

[Steve Jones]

any crs309?

swg has never once responded to inquiries over the years

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024, 5:10 PM Zach Underwood  wrote:

> We have standardized on refurbished cisco 3650 POE for our IDF switches
> that are deploying close to 100 a month right now.  That may be pushed up
> to 200-300 a month by the end of the year.
>
> We use arista for fore switch at our MDU sites, Mikrotik routers as site
> route and arista for both route and switch in the datacenter.
>
> On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 5:21 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Just wondering what the reason is for pulling the MikroTik Switches ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess*
>>
>>
>> * Mikrotik : **Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
>> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
>> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer*
>>
>> *Hurricane Electric: **IPv6 Sage Level*
>>
>> *Cambium: **ePMP*
>>
>>
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Zach Underwood <
>> zunder1...@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, April 26, 2024 9:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] sale bulk used Mikrotik swtiches
>>
>> We are working on pulling out Mikrotik switches from the network and
>> looking for vendors to buy the used switches. I have tried SWG and they
>> went silent on emails so I am looking for another vendor. All hardware is
>> located in ATL but can bulk ship.
>>
>> We have almost all models of crs1xx, crs2xx, crs3xx with a mix of poe and
>> non poe
>>
>> Example we have close to 100x CRS328
>>
>> --
>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>> My website
>> 
>> advance-networking.com
>> 
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>>
>
>
> --
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> My website 
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[AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[Steve Jones]

I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120 and
350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.

One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space providing
for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only accounts for the
DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or so

Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever
equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for all?
Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base
providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for
reasons and all electronics are up top.
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Re: [AFMUG] ASN check

[Steve Jones]

Its because we have upstreams in different towns both doing BGP. If the
path on our network between them goes down it orphans customers so this
allows a hobbled failover. We have passed 3-400mbps across it to our
surprise. I think our upstreams peer with zayo near each other. We
originally had EOIP but it was problematic and unreliable

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 3:08 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Why gre? Sounds interesting, how much traffic can you pass via gre?
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024, 7:14 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, apparently they moved our BGP to a new switch and had a syntax
>> error. We never noticed because our backup external GRE flowed bypass
>> traffic. I assume enough was getting out to wherever our upstreams meet
>> there was announcement.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:22 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://radar.qrator.net/as/40121/ipv4/neighbors/providers?prefix-history=30036
>>>
>>>
>>> https://stat.ripe.net/special/bgplay#bgplay_fetch.resource=142.202.109.0_fetch.ignoreReannouncements=false_fetch.starttime=1712823872_fetch.endtime=1713342272_fetch.rrcs=11,14_fetch.instant=null_fetch.type=bgp
>>>
>>>
>>> It looks like Mediacom dropped at 2024-04-12 05:18:55 UTC. Well,
>>> "dropped" it looks like at least some IPs through some peers are reachable
>>> via Mediacom.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 16, 2024 2:07:42 PM
>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] ASN check
>>>
>>> 40121
>>> can somebody else verify this is only showing one peer, im no looking
>>> glass master, but it appears one of our peers stopped announcing on the 12th
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - robot flamethrowing dog

[Steve Jones]

I need this for customer service

On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 4:15 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I’m sure someone here wants one of these.
>
> Maybe for de-icing solar panels.
>
> Or when it’s taking too long for 900 MHz to kill your evergreens.
>
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/23/thermonator-flamethrowing-robot-dog-shoot-fire/
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna

[Steve Jones]

thats what we install at everybodies house

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2
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Re: [AFMUG] ASN check

[Steve Jones]

Yeah, apparently they moved our BGP to a new switch and had a syntax error.
We never noticed because our backup external GRE flowed bypass traffic. I
assume enough was getting out to wherever our upstreams meet there was
announcement.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:22 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

>
> https://radar.qrator.net/as/40121/ipv4/neighbors/providers?prefix-history=30036
>
>
> https://stat.ripe.net/special/bgplay#bgplay_fetch.resource=142.202.109.0_fetch.ignoreReannouncements=false_fetch.starttime=1712823872_fetch.endtime=1713342272_fetch.rrcs=11,14_fetch.instant=null_fetch.type=bgp
>
>
> It looks like Mediacom dropped at 2024-04-12 05:18:55 UTC. Well, "dropped"
> it looks like at least some IPs through some peers are reachable via
> Mediacom.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, April 16, 2024 2:07:42 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] ASN check
>
> 40121
> can somebody else verify this is only showing one peer, im no looking
> glass master, but it appears one of our peers stopped announcing on the 12th
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ASN check

[Steve Jones]

We had a provider maintenance on the 12th and never realized all the
bandwidth moved to the other peer. though its odd, the two locations have
an external GRE tunnel that is up, so some prefix propagation has to be
occurring somewhere.

I restarted and cleared the BGP session, had only been up since the 12th
now.
I have an open ticket with them now

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 2:51 PM  wrote:

> Well this CIRBN LLC is peered with you
>
> I don’t know who your other peer is supposed to be, but I’d make sure your
> BGP connection to them is in the “Established” state and maybe reset that
> connection.  “clear ip bgp neighbor x.x.x.x” or whatever equivalent command
> on your router.  Also verify you’re advertising some routes to the other
> guy.  If you’re connected and advertising routes to him then quite possibly
> he’s not redistributing them.
>
>
>
> Lumen does that to us on a semi-regular basis, so we have to watch for
> that now.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 16, 2024 3:26 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] ASN check
>
>
>
> So I am reading that right, my peer is up to me but not announcing me
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 2:11 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> https://bgp.he.net/AS40121#_peers
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 3:09 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 40121
>
> can somebody else verify this is only showing one peer, im no looking
> glass master, but it appears one of our peers stopped announcing on the 12th
>
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Re: [AFMUG] ASN check

[Steve Jones]

So I am reading that right, my peer is up to me but not announcing me

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 2:11 PM Josh Baird  wrote:

> https://bgp.he.net/AS40121#_peers
>
> On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 3:09 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> 40121
>> can somebody else verify this is only showing one peer, im no looking
>> glass master, but it appears one of our peers stopped announcing on the 12th
>> --
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>>
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[AFMUG] ASN check

[Steve Jones]

40121
can somebody else verify this is only showing one peer, im no looking glass
master, but it appears one of our peers stopped announcing on the 12th
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Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn

[Steve Jones]

It all depends on what your campaign get get to show in the email
subject line of the linkdin email notification. I think thats the extent of
the linkedin interaction most who would use your blades do. At some point,
to try to be visible, a linkedin account was set up, its never really used
with the exception of periodically cleaning clutter from email and seeing a
linkedin notification the peaks curiosity. Usually that results in clicking
the link, seeing to content, seeing there are a bunch of unread PMs,
realizing those are all just spam PMs and linkedin trying to get you to pay
and then not coming back again until the next time an interesting email
subject line hits during inbox cleanup

On Fri, Mar 1, 2024 at 9:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Steve Jones]

unacceptable

On Thu, Feb 29, 2024 at 3:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Way too busy building microtrench blades, saws, grout machines etc.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 29, 2024 9:09 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
> "I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure
> if he is doing the chain mount or not. "
>
> WTF chuck
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 12:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure
>> if he is doing the chain mount or not.
>>
>> Hunter Clark  hun...@c3fab.com
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:10 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>>
>> Chain mount.  Chuck has them as does PV and CommScope.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I think I’ve got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf.  Like everything
>> from SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>>
>>
>>
>> +1 to both of those suggestions.
>>
>>- I’ve seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole
>>(J-arms, J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them).
>>- Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4” wall mount, but there are
>>a thousand copies out there.  Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS
>>finishes.  I’m sure Channel Master is fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> One other thing, you’re not supposed to drill into the top surface of a
>> wooden pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting.
>> You’re also not supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the
>> top (4” maybe? I don’t recall).  That’s why those pole-top mounts you see
>> are straddling the top and have bolt holes farther down.  If you put a
>> galvanized pipe into one of those wall mounts then you can have your mast
>> above the top and also not be putting hardware at the top.  Electric/phone
>> companies won’t like that solution because it uses more vertical real
>> estate, but if it’s just a light pole then it ought not be a problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you do want something heavy duty that won’t break the bank then look
>> at the Site Pro version of the WM4:
>>
>> https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218
>>
>>
>> https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly).pdf
>>
>> I don’t know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one
>> weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I’m sure it’s
>> sufficiently burly for most equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>>
>>
>>
>> Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: "Josh Luthman"
>> Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>>
>> Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
>> see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
>> mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
>> anyone know of anything?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount

[Steve Jones]

"I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure if
he is doing the chain mount or not. "

WTF chuck

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 12:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator.  Not sure if
> he is doing the chain mount or not.
>
> Hunter Clark  hun...@c3fab.com
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:10 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
> Chain mount.  Chuck has them as does PV and CommScope.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> On Feb 20, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I think I’ve got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf.  Like everything
> from SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
>
>
> +1 to both of those suggestions.
>
>- I’ve seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole
>(J-arms, J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them).
>- Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4” wall mount, but there are a
>thousand copies out there.  Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS
>finishes.  I’m sure Channel Master is fine.
>
>
>
> One other thing, you’re not supposed to drill into the top surface of a
> wooden pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting.
> You’re also not supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the
> top (4” maybe? I don’t recall).  That’s why those pole-top mounts you see
> are straddling the top and have bolt holes farther down.  If you put a
> galvanized pipe into one of those wall mounts then you can have your mast
> above the top and also not be putting hardware at the top.  Electric/phone
> companies won’t like that solution because it uses more vertical real
> estate, but if it’s just a light pole then it ought not be a problem.
>
>
>
> If you do want something heavy duty that won’t break the bank then look at
> the Site Pro version of the WM4:
>
> https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218
>
>
> https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly).pdf
>
> I don’t know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one
> weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I’m sure it’s
> sufficiently burly for most equipment.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
>
>
> Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Josh Luthman"
> Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
>
> Just use a Jpole?  Or an MTOW?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt  wrote:
>
> I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I
> see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just
> mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does
> anyone know of anything?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen

[Steve Jones]

How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent
they all energized?

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule?
>
>
>
> Does that apply to cars?  How about spouses?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after
> 200-foot radio tower stolen
>
>
>
>
>
> It's in our neighboring county.  Been there, know the guy, know the
> station.
>
> For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county
> (since 2014)
>
>
>
> 1)  Ok, why on EARTH is this viral?  Like internationally viral?
>
>
>
> 2)  For all the backstory  / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even
> on facebook) :
>
>
>
>
> https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741
>
>
>
> 3)  Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you
> just unscrew it in 10 foot sections
>
> just like a rohn25, no?  I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing
> tho.  Clearly no one listens to that AM,
>
> except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years.
>
>
>
> In my home county we have two licensed AMS,  1340 and 1460.  1460 has been
> off air for at least 5 years,
>
> but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed.  1340 signed off
> last week - the property had been abandoned,
>
> seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the
> guy currently running it), and now it's being
>
> sold for a development of houses.  Good for them.
>
>
>
> Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are
> also silent
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF 
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after
> 200-foot radio tower stolen
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM
>
> *To:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio
> tower stolen
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Odd routing issue

[Steve Jones]

are your routing IPs in a bridge with other IP addresses?

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024, 10:09 AM castarritt  wrote:

> Had an odd issue last night.  All 'tik OSPF routed network with routers at
> each tower site.  Simple single area OSPF setup, no MPLS or other overlay,
> about 700 internal routes.  Last night, some customers on APs connected to
> specific tower routers lost connection to the internet.  Our monitoring
> system never lost connection to any of the customer SMs or anything else in
> our network, so no alarms were raised.  The issue lasted a few hours
> overnight and recovered on its own without any of us getting to take a look
> at it.  It is like the affected routers lost their dynamic default route.
> The affected routers appear to be randomly scattered around our network.
> They aren't all connected along the same backhaul paths, and in one case
> where we had two routers at a specific site, only one of the routers was
> affected.  This happened at the tail end of a heavy rain storm that was
> causing a lot of OSPF topology changes as microwave links went in and out
> of service due to rain fade.
>
> Anyone else seen something like this?  Is our routing table getting too
> big for 'tik to handle with a single OSPF area?
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP 3000 AP losing firmware

[Steve Jones]

There was something that cause me to poke at it, but it was years ago. I
just remember the screen was odd to see


On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 1:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Was yours acting up before the issue?  This AP had been slowly loosing TX
> power for about 2 months.
> On 1/2/2024 12:38 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I had this issue once. I dont recall an RMA. It probably ended up deployed
> again close by in case of further issue then forgot about. I do remember
> loading multiple firmwares in both banks multiple times to make sure
> nothing collapsed
>
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 4:55 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I had an EPMP3000 AP on a tower that died after a web page initiated
>> reboot.  I got it swapped out and when I put it on the bench, accessing
>> on 169.254.1.1 loaded a page saying to 'Load Firmware'  With a big
>> disclaimer saying 'No Firmware validation done, make sure you load a
>> proper image'
>>
>> I loaded the 4.6.1 firmware on it, and it appears to be booting normally
>> now.  I'm concerned to deploy it again, since 'something' happened, but
>> why wouldn't it have loaded the backup firmware if the primary was
>> corrupted?  Anyone run into this before?  The AP was acting up which is
>> what prompted the initial reboot.  2 Sm's next to each other on a roof,
>> one SM had 70% packet loss, the Other SM had 0% packet loss.  Only thing
>> that hadn't been rebooted yet was the AP.
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP 3000 AP losing firmware

[Steve Jones]

I had this issue once. I dont recall an RMA. It probably ended up deployed
again close by in case of further issue then forgot about. I do remember
loading multiple firmwares in both banks multiple times to make sure
nothing collapsed

On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 4:55 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I had an EPMP3000 AP on a tower that died after a web page initiated
> reboot.  I got it swapped out and when I put it on the bench, accessing
> on 169.254.1.1 loaded a page saying to 'Load Firmware'  With a big
> disclaimer saying 'No Firmware validation done, make sure you load a
> proper image'
>
> I loaded the 4.6.1 firmware on it, and it appears to be booting normally
> now.  I'm concerned to deploy it again, since 'something' happened, but
> why wouldn't it have loaded the backup firmware if the primary was
> corrupted?  Anyone run into this before?  The AP was acting up which is
> what prompted the initial reboot.  2 Sm's next to each other on a roof,
> one SM had 70% packet loss, the Other SM had 0% packet loss.  Only thing
> that hadn't been rebooted yet was the AP.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ken Hohof

[Steve Jones]

I am not grown up enough to make such a commitment


On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 9:26 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I always miss his wisdom.
> I know an election years is coming, but Steve & Jamie please behave
> yourselves this time.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 31, 2023 1:08:02 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ken Hohof
>
> Everbuddy say welcome back Ken!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Prevailing Wage

[Steve Jones]

Was that a mistake or intentional? With all the taxpayer funded welfare
going out to the ISPs, I can see a "well meaning bureaucrat" intentionally
putting the wording in to get some of the welfare back to those workers
controlling the "means of production"



well meaning bureaucrat - commie
means of production - commie speak

On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 8:10 AM  wrote:

> There’s a new rule in NY State:
> https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2023/a5608
>
>
> https://dol.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2023/12/enforcement-guidance-roadway-excavation-quality-assurance-act-update-3.pdf
>
>
>
> 'a "Covered excavation project" shall mean construction work for which a
> permit may be issued to a contractor or subcontractor of a utility company
> by the state, a county or a municipality to *use*, excavate, or open a
> street. '
>
>
>
> Intentionally or not, they put the word “use” in that sentence.  The DOL
> issued that enforcement guidance saying it means any time you are working
> “in, on, or under” a street.  Basically, if you’re working as a contractor
> on a job that needs any kind of permit from a state, local, or county to
> work in their ROW then you have to pay prevailing wage.  That’s regardless
> of whether it’s a state job or not.  This does not apply to in-house
> employees or work outside the ROW.  This is going to cause some waves for a
> lot of us in NY State.
>
>
>
> If I can get the “prevailing” $54/hour as a lineman on almost every job,
> then I might quit this “Network Engineering” thing and just be a builder.
>
>
>
> So where do federal and state labor departments get their data to
> determine “prevailing wage”?  I have never met a tradesman of any sort who
> made prevailing wage outside of when the government mandates it, and I have
> never understood how it was “prevailing” if nobody seems to actually get
> that wage. Is it a selection bias issue like maybe they’re only getting
> data from large union shops?
>
>
>
> -Adam
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Re: [AFMUG] Got paid

[Steve Jones]

see, im not gonna be that mind of prime, when i dont pay people, imma stick
to it. so much more spending money

On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 7:59 PM Sam Lambie  wrote:

> I wouldn't have pulled the review or comments until the bank said the
> transfer was good to go. I wonder if he is going to stiff you again, with
> excuses as to why the transfer didn't work... Sometimes, I don't believe in
> humanity.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 1:29 PM Craig Schmaderer 
> wrote:
>
>> I am sorry it had to come to this. LOL, yeah right.   You are just
>> sorry that you got outplayed by Chuck.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2023 8:28 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Got paid
>>
>>
>>
>> That's awesome!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 4:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I did.  Wire transfer has not landed yet but here is his last email to me:
>>
>> Thank you Chuck I really appreciate you . I will transfer things
>> around
>> and send it today and send conformation . I am sorry it had to come to
>> this
>> . I should have moved more swiftly .
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Robert Andrews
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 2:19 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Got paid
>>
>> Did you pull the comments and review?
>>
>> On 10/24/23 11:53, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > A prime contractor has owed me about $15K for 6 months.  Totally
>> dogging
>> > me.
>> > They showed up in my FB feed crowing about a big job they had just
>> > completed.  So I started making snarky comments on their posts.  I also
>> > gave them a bad review and commented that they don’t pay their subs.
>> The
>> > owner of the company called me and settled about 15 minutes after
>> posting
>> > the review.
>> > A whole lot cheaper than attorneys.
>> >
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
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Re: [AFMUG] Geolocation updates

[Steve Jones]

last time we got now blocks it took almost a year and a half to get them
cleaned up, a few emails to the NANOG list, some custting, some colorful
emails to sysop nerds at various locations, we still periodically run into
issues with some smaller banks who host with some software firewalls at
their webhost

On Mon, Oct 23, 2023 at 8:09 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> You can hope, but that will probably never happen.  It's just the way it
> is.
>
> On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 10:00 PM  wrote:
>
>> I see the mention of Hulu on that page.  Someone’s Hulu TV has the
>> channels from another market which is what prompted today’s musings.
>>
>> Will the “IP Admin” at Hulu override stuff?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a similar list of geolocation providers already, but I can’t
>> believe all of these ding dongs have completely separate databases and
>> don’t talk to each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, since it’s now a thing that is service affecting and impacts TV ad
>> revenue, I hope to hell ARIN or someone starts a central repository so we
>> don’t have to update a dozen different people if something changes.  I
>> haven’t dug into all of them yet, but IP2Location wants a notarized
>> affidavit attached to your request for changes.  I have no idea why they
>> placed some of our IP’s on the wrong side of the state, but apparently they
>> didn’t require a sworn and notarized affidavit to screw it up.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 22, 2023 2:44 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Geolocation updates
>>
>>
>>
>> https://thebrotherswisp.com/index.php/geo-and-vpn/
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
>> Image removed by sender.]
>> [image:
>> Image removed by sender.]
>> [image:
>> Image removed by sender.] 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
>> Image removed by sender.]
>> [image:
>> Image removed by sender.] 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> [image: Image removed by sender.]
>> [image: Image removed by
>> sender.]
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 22, 2023 1:03:19 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Geolocation updates
>>
>> Which services do you need to update when you move IP blocks or get new
>> blocks?
>>
>>
>>
>> I can’t believe they all have their own separate databases.  There must
>> be smaller ones that key off of larger ones.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

[Steve Jones]

partner is not technically and employee, but the partnership is not formal,
so hes technically a 1099 contractor. he definitely makes over prevailing
wage though. I just dont knw what documentation i need to show it. Or if i
have to payroll him rather than 1099, he meets the IRS 1099 worksheet
requirements

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 8:34 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I don't think it matters how many layers are between the person working
> and the government body, the worker still has to meet those wage thresholds.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, October 11, 2023 6:09:15 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage
>
> My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after
> expenses, one of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to
> have 1099, or would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual
> payroll right now. Last year I ended up having my accountant stop
> submitting because other than my son I didn't have any and this year I
> still didn't have enout to reach back out.
> I don't know anything about this stuff
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM  wrote:
>
>> Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
>> Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
>> You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate
>> and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of
>> my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
>> the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own
>> laborforce.
>> David Young
>> Town of Warwick MA
>> warwickbroadband.net
>>
>> On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
>> > requires prevailing wage.
>> > I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
>> > to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
>> > informal 1099 partner or with my son.
>> >
>> > I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
>> > hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
>> > do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
>> >
>> > what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
>> > meet the requirement
>>
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] prevailing wage

[Steve Jones]

My part er is informal. I have his 1099, he gets 50 percent after expenses,
one of those expenses is operator pay. On PW jobs am I allowed to have
1099, or would I have to put him on payroll? I don't have any actual
payroll right now. Last year I ended up having my accountant stop
submitting because other than my son I didn't have any and this year I
still didn't have enout to reach back out.
I don't know anything about this stuff

On Wed, Oct 11, 2023, 4:14 PM  wrote:

> Prevailing wage is the state equivalent of federal Davis Bacon.
> Typically, your state's Dept of Labor maintains the schedules.
> You have to get the rates and make sure the workers get paid the rate
> and then retain the documentation in case of claim or objection. Part of
> my town administrator job is running our town owned wisp.
> the only workaround is hiring a sole proprietor or using your own
> laborforce.
> David Young
> Town of Warwick MA
> warwickbroadband.net
>
> On 2023-10-11 17:03, Steve Jones wrote:
> > I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it
> > requires prevailing wage.
> > I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
> > to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
> > informal 1099 partner or with my son.
> >
> > I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I
> > hired them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I
> > do carry a work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.
> >
> > what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to
> > meet the requirement
>
> --
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[AFMUG] prevailing wage

[Steve Jones]

I have a solar project that's come up for horizontal drilling. it requires
prevailing wage.
I don't know exactly what this means from my standpoint.
to this point I've just been busy enough to run by myself or with my
informal 1099 partner or with my son.

I've used day labor periodically but never got to the need where I hired
them. I'm not saying I pay cash, but people are compensated. I do carry a
work comp policy for more wage than I pay out.

what's it mean for me and what paperwork do I have to have in order to meet
the requirement
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Re: [AFMUG] who caves first? charter? disney?

[Steve Jones]

im seeing a trend toward the commercials coming back into the fray. Theres
so much free streaming out there now with commercial breaks its cutting the
big players throats. Im about to cancel netflix since their repository has
turned to shit and they keep boosting prices. I only use prime video becaus
eits included. The only market winner right now seems to be youtube tv

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 7:00 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Networks, etc., are dead, my opinion.  On demand is where it is at, ZERO
> commercials needed.I don’t watch sports, nor have a “network TV
> service”.  Netflix and YouTube premium is about it.  Lots of options, zero
> commercials, I don’t think I have seen a commercial in at least 5 years.
> Lol, unless at someone else’s home.
>
>
>
> The only issue is the decentralization of the streaming industry now,
> originally it was Netflix and that was about it, Disney is making crappy
> decisions, raising rates, you add HBO, Paramount, etc, and you are back to
> a cable bill.  Disney keeps removing content, witch sucks for consumers and
> the people who helped make the movies.
>
>
>
> Movie houses are also going belly up, less and less of them.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 6, 2023 9:49 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] who caves first? charter? disney?
>
>
>
>
>
> Talking heads are making it out to be a big deal.  They'll both lose a lot
> of money.  Charter may not survive
>
> pay tv may not survive
>
>
>
> my take?  per 1,000 facebook posts here last Saturday as SEC football
> kicked off, they're all dropping whatever
>
> charter they had left and going to youtube tv.  meaning it's all being
> dumped on our networks (ok, no worries).
>
>
>
> disney isn't going to lose that revenue, now it's just coming in from a
> different pay-tv provider.
>
>
>
> so i see charter being the big loser.  Those SEC football fans are going
> to find a way to get the feed.
>
> Seems youtube tv is now getting their money - - - if they weren't before.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[Steve Jones]

i gotchu fam.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 4:46 PM  wrote:

> Maybe I need a sarcasm filter.
>
> Nobody should do any of this, these are not serious “solutions”, and
> there’s no “EIRP Problem”.  The EIRP limit (and other rules) are there to
> protect incumbent licensed operators who have invested a small fortune into
> radio equipment they are relying on to provide critical communication
> services as well as to protect the new unlicensed users from harming each
> other.  Anybody who does any of the things in those bullet points should be
> flogged.
>
>
>
> ….but there’s also nothing new here.  People will misconfigure EIRP and
> install bigger antennas out of ignorance even if they’re an upright
> citizen.  Hell I’m getting the impression from Peter Kranz’s original
> question that he didn’t even know there was an EIRP limit.  So that’s
> exhibit A.  The people who would use hacked or international radios know
> exactly what they’re doing and if they don’t already know how to get them
> then they’ll learn it from Reddit, or from shady vendors, or they’ll figure
> it out by accident when they buy a foreign model off EBay.   Or they’re
> already doing it.
>
>
>
> My point is 6ghz is not going to be safe for licensed PTP anymore.  Maybe
> I’m being pessimistic about it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 06, 2023 5:29 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600
>
>
>
> I'm baffled that you would even propose or share that information
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 1:56 PM  wrote:
>
> The industry already has solutions to the EIRP problem.
>
>
>
>- Buy international units set to follow the rules in Russia or Hong
>Kong and then you can run any channel you want at whatever power you want.
>- Alter the firmware on a US unit to enable rules for another country
>or maybe put it in an engineering test mode with no limitations.
>- “Misconfigure” the antenna gain so you can turn up the Tx power.
>- If antenna gain can’t be adjusted in the config, then buy integrated
>units with small antennas and then run pigtails off the circuit board to a
>bigger antenna
>
>
>
> You shouldn’t really do any of this, but all of those “solutions” have
> been seen in the wild.  For awhile you could factory reset AirMax gear and
> then on first login just pick whatever country you wanted.  I knew a guy
> who did that for all of his PTP links and I got him in trouble with his
> boss.  Or at least his boss pretended he was in trouble, but for all I know
> maybe they started laughing together as soon as I was out of the room.
>
>
>
> If I had 6ghz licensed links right now I would be coming up with
> contingency plans for if/when they get trashed by some jabroni.  Like the
> private pool is about to become a public pool and you know all the
> neighborhood kids are gonna pee in it.  It might be time to look for
> another pool.  Just saying.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 06, 2023 3:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600
>
>
>
> 36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs
> without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet
> they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct
> antenna gain.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:
>
> I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
> trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
> although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
> subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have
> something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
> the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?
>
>
>
> This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result..
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Steve Jones]

we have a dozen or so, but are looking at pole mount micropops (our own
poles). We are losing a grain elevator site because they decommissioned the
elevator and theres no real options for the customers in some of the areas.
Im just trying to get to something we can get solar power with enough
battery to last through overcast. So Im calculating per battery runtimes,
then will look at number of batteries we would need to survive vs paying
for a ROW meter vs losing the customers. Just have to get to the cost per
customer to retain them and the benefit gained per pole


On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> How many of the batteries do you have? Do you need any voltages other than
> the 48 volts? If you have 4 batteries and only need 48 volts then wire them
> in series and not have to deal with the converter.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *
> dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:59 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> *You’re around C/30 which should be on the high end *of capacity*.
>
> Lower load usually means a little extra capacity out of the battery.  I
> realized that sentence might have been ambiguous.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 15, 2023 6:56 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> You can do the whole thing in Watts.
>
>
>
> 12V * 150ah = 1800 Watt-hours
>
> 1800Wh / 50W = 36 hours
>
>
>
> If they’re telling me 95% efficiency, I’d assume 50W out needs 53W in (50
> / 0.95).
>
> There’s usually an efficiency curve for the device based on load and
> temperature so it wouldn’t be 95% in all circumstances.  Your system should
> be drawing less than 5A off the battery, and if your multimeter has a 10A
> fuse like most do, then you could put the meter in line and actually
> measure the amperage before and after the converter.  Then you’d know for
> sure.
>
>
>
> And the battery’s total capacity will have a curve based on C-rate so
> there’s some variability there too.  Usually it lasts longer when you’re
> drawing lower amperage.  You’re around C/30 which should be on the high
> end.
>
>
>
> Age and maintenance of the battery affect runtime as well.  If I want 6
> hours of runtime then I plan Ah for 12 hours runtime. When my batteries are
> halfway toasted I’m still getting useful life out of them.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2023 9:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] battery nerd question
>
>
>
> Just trying to cipher runtimes
>
> I have on hand 150ah 12 volt batteries, so thats what id be looking to use.
>
> Excluding the conversion loss of a 12v to 48v step up converter is the
> math correct here?
>
> 12v 150ah=1800 watt hours
> 1800 watt hours at 48v = 37.5ah
> 50 watts of radio running 48v = 1.04 amps
> 37.5ah @ 1.04 amps = 32.77 hours runtime
>
>
>
> does a step up that claims 95% efficiency mean 95% of the watt hours?
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[AFMUG] battery nerd question

[Steve Jones]

Just trying to cipher runtimes
I have on hand 150ah 12 volt batteries, so thats what id be looking to use.
Excluding the conversion loss of a 12v to 48v step up converter is the math
correct here?
12v 150ah=1800 watt hours
1800 watt hours at 48v = 37.5ah
50 watts of radio running 48v = 1.04 amps
37.5ah @ 1.04 amps = 32.77 hours runtime

does a step up that claims 95% efficiency mean 95% of the watt hours?
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Re: [AFMUG] Robot solar panel cleaners

[Steve Jones]

I don't think we are allowed to do that any more.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023, 2:12 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> These are designed for dust, but maybe they might work for light snow too?
>
>
> https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/clarence-thomas-bought-267-000-180329496.html
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar

[Steve Jones]

to get me to come to the state of california would require an act of god
and a pile of gold bars. I would rather lick ebola sores and scopp my eyes
out with spoons.

But for real, last time i looked at freight transport to florida it was
around 2500, california probably 3-4x that to california. For duct, Adams
Cable was offering free shipping on it.

On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 3:28 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> What's the transport fee to come to the outer coast in California?
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/1/2023 6:15 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> dont forget to hire me to drill in 2 inch duct for the conductors
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 1:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> No, they all take COGS X 3 for the installed price.  You really have to
>> be your own contractor to get the best deal.  I presume that is going out
>> in an open field?  If so, I would use that mount that uses the poles you
>> hammer into the ground with a skid steer.
>>
>> Get construction grunts to mount them up.  Once mounted hire an
>> independent electrician to do the wiring.  The grunts can be trained up to
>> do the bulk of the wiring.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 11:19 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar
>>
>>
>> Now if only the installers weren’t so greedy.   Chuck know of any good
>> commercial / industrial installers?   Considering a big 500kw + install up
>> here in Ogden.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Trey Scarborough
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 01, 2023 10:16 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow I'm going to have to check these guys out there just down the street
>> from me. I actually almost moved in to that complex when I was looking for
>> my new office.
>>
>> On 7/31/23 6:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Beene Brothers Ventures LLC
>>
>> 2090 Fm157 Mansfield, TX 76063 US
>>
>> beenebrothe...@gmail.com
>>
>> https://beenebrothers.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 31, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
>> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Not bad. Where did you order from?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22+ 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>>
>> From: Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> Date: 7/31/23 6:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
>>
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
>>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Solar
>>
>>
>>
>> Just bought a pallet of new 490 watt panels for 40 cents per watt.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar

[Steve Jones]

dont forget to hire me to drill in 2 inch duct for the conductors

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 1:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> No, they all take COGS X 3 for the installed price.  You really have to be
> your own contractor to get the best deal.  I presume that is going out in
> an open field?  If so, I would use that mount that uses the poles you
> hammer into the ground with a skid steer.
>
> Get construction grunts to mount them up.  Once mounted hire an
> independent electrician to do the wiring.  The grunts can be trained up to
> do the bulk of the wiring.
>
>
>
> *From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 11:19 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar
>
>
> Now if only the installers weren’t so greedy.   Chuck know of any good
> commercial / industrial installers?   Considering a big 500kw + install up
> here in Ogden.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Trey Scarborough
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 01, 2023 10:16 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar
>
>
>
> Wow I'm going to have to check these guys out there just down the street
> from me. I actually almost moved in to that complex when I was looking for
> my new office.
>
> On 7/31/23 6:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Beene Brothers Ventures LLC
>
> 2090 Fm157 Mansfield, TX 76063 US
>
> beenebrothe...@gmail.com
>
> https://beenebrothers.com
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 31, 2023, at 5:26 PM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> Not bad. Where did you order from?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S22+ 5G, an AT 5G smartphone
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>
> Date: 7/31/23 6:20 PM (GMT-06:00)
>
> To: af@af.afmug.com
>
> Cc: Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> Subject: [AFMUG] Solar
>
>
>
> Just bought a pallet of new 490 watt panels for 40 cents per watt.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Steve Jones]

I cant see my screen half the time, let alone the mouse

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 1:38 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> There is a setting that causes the curser to be an expanding/contracting
> bullseye by tapping the CTRL key .
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/1/2023 9:38 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Hey!  I lose the cursor all the time.  Mostly on my surface with the touch
> pad.
>
>
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 1, 2023 8:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?
>
> I guess I'm just becoming a curmudgeon.  Just watching him do things, I'm
> like 'It's 2 clicks to get to the setting you want'  instead, he clicks the
> search button, has to move to the keyboard to type, then back to the mouse
> to select the setting it's returned.  I guess that's better than watching
> the boss who continually loses his mouse on the screen and can't figure out
> where he's clicking.
>
> On 7/31/2023 8:37 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> My windows search feature has also been periodically crashing.  Having to
> use start menu.  Wish they would fix w an update.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?
> Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2023 5:46 PM
>
>
> A few weeks ago the Windows search box was broken for me, but I was in the
> middle of something where I couldn't restart my computer.  That was the
> first time I'd used the Start Menu to open applications in 4 or 5 years.  I
> only use Start to find the "shutdown" button.  Yes, it's faster to search by
> the name of the application than to click through the Start Menu for it.  I
> also use it for the Control Panel items I open most often.  For example I
> start typing "ethernet" and then click "ethernet settings" as soon as it
> appears and I type "device" and click on "device manager".
>
> I don't generally search for settings in a device.  Maybe I'll try it.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, July 31, 2023 4:38 PM
> To: Animal Farm mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?
>
> We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs off his
> start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.
>
> Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even know that
> the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only uses that to find
> settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is it actually faster?
>
> --
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>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Are you reliant on searching?

[Steve Jones]

With windows its becoming about the only way to get to stuff any more, they
make everything 30 clicks deep now. Start menu isnt natively
directory driven. Same with phones and the billions of icons, its quicker
just to go to search for the app. Its bullshit.. change. Kids always
messing with the status quo.


On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 3:49 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> We've got a new employee in his 20's.  He never browses for programs off
> his start menu, but uses the windows search box for everything.
>
> Anything that has a search box, he types into that.  I didn't even know
> that the Grandstream UCM's had a search function, but he only uses that
> to find settings to change.  Is this normal behavior now? Is it actually
> faster?
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Everyone was right.

[Steve Jones]

False
The bear was shot by the conservative, then eaten and made into a rug.

Thats why political leanings of bear attack victims are a skewed metric.
Though it is inherently more dangerous for leftward leaning to walk in bear
country than rightward leaning, vaccinated or not.

I have a buddy who goes on night time wild boar knife hunts, I suspect none
of the other folks who buy that package are leftward leaning. It
doesnt have anything to do with bear attacks, I just think my buddy does
cool shit and I hope he works through his trauma.


On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 12:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Third draft:
> Lessee, we can presume the bear is a liberal because it got vaccinated.
> So a liberal bear is more likely to attack conservatives.
>
> So I think you guys are good.  [image: Winking smile]
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 2, 2023 7:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Everyone was right.
>
>
> I'm not a democrat
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/2/2023 4:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Not sure the logic of that joke makes sense
>
> Lessee, we can presume the bear is a democrat because it got vaccinated.
> So a democrat bear is more likely to attack republicans.
>
> So I think you guys are good.  [image: Winking smile]
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 2, 2023 5:23 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Everyone was right.
>
> Then they will not attack.  They only attack democrats!
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 2, 2023 12:58 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Everyone was right.
>
>
> What if the grizzly is vaccinated?
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/2/2023 11:08 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> .005 but that is attack, not death.  I actually calculated it.
> Deaths is .0005
>
> Lightening is 100 x more likely to get her.
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, July 2, 2023 11:25 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Everyone was right.
>
>
> My wife wants to know the micromorts for death by grizzly bear when
> backpacking in Yellowstone National Park.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/2/2023 9:32 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Fun way to start the day. Incredible PBX Voicemail Notification

[Steve Jones]

I would have paused for 6 seconds every 4 words when talking to her. I
would have done it through the whole conversation. I hate pause talkers,
its like chewing with your mouth open. I would have paid any cost on repair
and gave credits, but I would have paused ever 2 words when telling her

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 10:46 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> At least she thanked you for listening.  If you listened to the endlol
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> To: "Adam Moffett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
> Group" 
> Cc: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Fun way to start the day. Incredible PBX Voicemail
> Notification
> Date: Thu, Jun 29, 2023 12:16 PM
>
> I think that maybe our guys hand dug at that site and may have hit the
> irrigation line with a digging bar but did not notice it.  She says the
> pipe was punctured.
>
> In any event I called her and she bitched at me for 20 minutes.  I will
> give here a month of free service.
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2023 10:53 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Fun way to start the day. Incredible PBX Voicemail
> Notification
>
> Hard to imagine they had low pressure ever since that install and only
> investigated today.
>
> I found recently that in State of NY the statute of limitations on
> property damage is 3 years.  Not that they *cant* sue you after that, but
> it’s an extra hurdle that’s difficult to cross.
>
> I received a similar complaint recently you see. .
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2023 11:57:19 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fun way to start the day. Incredible PBX Voicemail
> Notification
>
> Install was done 3 years ago.  HDD install.  And she says the pipe is 12"
> below our duct  Sweetheart.
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Re: [AFMUG] This thing on?

[Steve Jones]

Except we dont know that it is running out. Capped once empty wells are
found to be full of oil. The same people who were giving mercury to kids
for cuts and scratches are the ones who decided oil wa derived from spoiled
dinosaurs. That's a lot of dinosaurs. Less dinosaurs by volume than there
are people dying now and, by their logic, also turning into oil.
For all we actually know oil is just the organic earths blood,
replenisheshed by its liver just like ours.
Decimating economies to save us from fossil fluid depletion is on par with
causing hepatitis outbreaks in the 2020s by switching to plastic bags in
the 80s to save the rain forests which turned out not to actually be the
lungs of the earth.
Al gore invented the series of tubes we know as he internet to spread fear
mongering.
Work toward oil independence because we want more efficient tooling, not
because some suit with an ego needs it to happen.

On Thu, Jun 29, 2023, 1:02 PM  wrote:

> So the real news article was about floating artic ice being gone, and they
> say 80-85% of it is gone now.  So they missed on the exact timing, but most
> of it is gone.
>
> The bit about the “end of humanity” was a clickbait headline someone
> attached to that.
>
> The kid thought a clickbait headline was representing the real story,
> believed it and retweeted it.  She was wrong.  Her 15 minutes are up
> anyway, and now it’s “Greta who?” unless you’re someone who wants to pick
> on her.
>
>
>
> One kid being wrong doesn’t mean the earth isn’t getting warmer or that
> it’s not a problem.
>
>
>
> For any who don’t believe that the climate will create problems for our
> descendants, and that it’s nothing to do with us if it does, do you at
> least believe these points?
> 1) No matter how much fossil fuel there is it’s not infinite so it makes
> sense to conserve it.
>
> 2) To get the oil price we have, we sell to where it’s more expensive and
> buy from where it’s cheaper.  “Where it’s cheaper” is almost universally
> countries that don’t like us (or we don’t like), and reducing consumption
> means we can buy less from them without paying more.
>
>
>
> I know people made a lot of hay about “energy independence” when domestic
> oil production exceeded domestic demand a few years ago, but I think they
> were overlooking that if we actually tried to be independent on oil the
> price would skyrocket on account of not having those cheaper imports in our
> supply and losing the revenue from the exports.  We’ve also long since
> exceeded that production level, but it’s not worth crowing about it in
> 2022-2023. The price remains high because Russia is mostly off the market,
> and as we increase production Saudi Arabia (and OPEC in general) reduces
> theirs to preserve the high price.  The low price sometimes cited occurred
> when *demand* plummeted during lock downs.  Then everybody (USA included)
> cut production because low prices are bad for the oil producers.
>
>
>
> If you’re not on board with fossil fuel reduction for climate change
> reasons you should be on board because it’s simply better for our country
> if we stop relying on something that will eventually run out, which
> finances regimes that are belligerent to us, and finances business
> interests that meddle in both our foreign and domestic policy for their own
> benefit.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2023 1:15 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] This thing on?
>
>
>
> She did say :“A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will
> wipe out humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels over the next five
> years.”
>
>
>
> That was 5 years ago.
>
>
>
> So the warning seems to say that we had 5 years to stop using fossil fuels
> or humanity will be wiped out.
>
> So time to get  your affairs in order...
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2023 10:28 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] This thing on?
>
>
>
> The rest of the story.
>
>
> https://www.factcheck.org/2023/06/viral-posts-distort-greta-thunberg-tweet-warning-about-climate-change/
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 6/21/2023 3:53 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Greta Thunberg day.  5 years ago today Greta Thunberg, climate activist,
> tweeted, "A top climate scientist is warning that climate change will wipe
> out all of humanity unless we stop using fossil fuels over the next five
> years."
>
>
>
> The tweet has since been deleted. However, today is our last day before
> catastrophic, world-wide destruction. Have a great

Re: [AFMUG] This thing on?

[Steve Jones]

96 hours O2 for 5 people
480 man hours O2
120 hours - 4 people
160 hours - 3 people
240 hours - 2 people
480 hours - me

just saying





On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 10:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Water pressure at 12,500' is something like 5400 psi.  There is a lot of
> area on that tube.  Who trusts essentially fiberglass to withstand 5400
> psi?
> If it was a pressure vessel it is one thing, but this is essentially a
> vacuum inside the tube, the forces pushing on it are not pulling on those
> fibers.  The tiniest non symmetry in shape would be no bueno.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2023 7:02 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: RE: [AFMUG] This thing on?
>
> I read a commentary today saying the hull was made of titanium and carbon
> fiber.
>
> An Operations Director for the manufacturer delivered a quality control
> report saying that the carbon fiber hull carried a risk of small defects
> expanding into major failures under pressure.  They were relying on an
> acoustic fault detection system that was supposed to alert the pilot if
> there were sounds indicating stress in the hull.  That Operations Director
> said you'd have a matter of milliseconds between that alert system going
> off
> and a catastrophic failure.  He'd expressed those concerns verbally and was
> ignored, so he delivered that report to senior management in 2018 to create
> a written record of his concerns, and was immediately fired.  Then he took
> his report to OSHA, there was a lawsuit about divulging company information
> or some such.  Lawsuit settled later that year, OSHA didn't take any action
> against the manufacturer.  I'd bet a nickel that OSHA doesn't have specific
> rules for submarines, and without any rules to follow they don't have
> enough
> knowledge to assess whether one is actually safe.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2023 7:32 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] This thing on?
>
> What a horror show.  There were so many ways they could have improved their
> chances at survival.  Supposedly dissolvable straps should have dropped
> sand
> ballast by now.  They had a way to mechanically drop steel ballast.  And a
> inflatable bladder.
>
> Why not a power and comm tether to the mother ship?  I realize it is
> 12,500'
>
> of cable but fiber optics are pretty much neutrally buoyant.
>
> But no underwater pinger.  No ELT.  How about a sat tel or VHF radio.  Some
> kind of way to talk to the world.  No high pressure air to blow tanks.  I
> would have wanted explosive bolts on the hatch if there was no other way to
> get out.  But why not some kind of fresh air intake assuming you could
> surface.  This haunts my sleep.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Bill Prince
> Tryin' to get my ass outa this cramped submarine.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/21/2023 3:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Errbody dead?
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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[AFMUG] This thing on?

[Steve Jones]

Errbody dead?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT NEC

[Steve Jones]

Dead wire has to be marked at both ends now or removed, that was in nec.

Most municipalities defer to nec as adopted, so for the flammable on racks
have them show you the specific code so you can verify compliance. That
sound more like fire code than electric code and that you go buy a case of
whatever the local fire chief drinks cause he can make or break you

On Mon, Jun 12, 2023, 7:46 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> THHN. And we learned that the fire code for pallet racks is proportional
> to square footage.  We think we are in the lowest group so almost no rules
> by our reading.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 12, 2023, at 5:50 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> On 1) it’s common practice to wirenut the conductors together on the dead
> wire.  Then if someone got confused later and energized it they’d
> immediately pop their breaker.  That’s safer than having someone
> accidentally put 208V into a wire hanging in the middle of nowhere.  I
> can’t imagine why it would be cited as “junction box without cover”.
>
> What type of wire is it?  Something like an SJOW coming out of a box?
> Maybe put a twist-lock socket on the end of it and re-energize it.  Now
> it’s an outlet.
>
>
>
> (2) might not be a misunderstanding.  NFPA has definitions for various
> classes of flammable materials, and depending on what you’re storing it
> might not be that you *can’t* put flammable items on the racks, rather
> you might be required to have a sprinkler system in order to do so.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, June 12, 2023 6:17 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT NEC
>
>
>
> Got gigged by the fire department today on a couple items.
>
>
>
> 1)Hand coil of wire up in the ceiling over a spot where a machine used
> to be.  Not gonna cut it off as some other machine may go there.  It is
> coiled and cut dead and capped in the breaker panel.  They are quoting a
> junction box without a cover and saying I guess I have to mount a big assed
> box up there to enclose this dead wire?  Opinions.
>
>
>
> 2)Nothing flammable on our pallet racking.  Every warehouse I have
> ever been has pallet racking full of things in corrugated boxes.  Having a
> hard time buying this.  So we can only store steel and rocks up there.
> They do say we can put our non flammable items on a pallet  Anyone ever
> run across this before?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review

[Steve Jones]

So an update on this. Surprisingly, no homeowners have refused to sign, If
there is non exposure mitigation, we document it on the sheet and both sign
next to the mitigation (an example was a farm nobody knew where the water
lines were and the private locate company couldnt find them with GPR. We
mechanically excavated a 2 foot trench over the suspected area it might be
and hand dug another foot, then sent the drill head through the daylight on
that section.

I actually had a homeowners association sign this when we were doing power
duct for the whole neighborhood. Initially we had no waiver, but nobody
knew for sure where the water was. I hand dug down a hydrant and put my
spade into the pvc main and it shattered at 5 foot. They said "oh yeah, its
brittle" So they signed this for the entire water plant. we had blanket
permission to hit it all, lol. We had two other water contacts at 36 inches
and at 24 inches. I ended up paying the bill, but I had to get protected in
the event we hit 20 water lines.

My lawyer looked it over, said it was good, she only recommended adding
something to the nature of indemnification of someone coming out and
climbing on a piece of equipment they shouldnt be on and falling off. Ill
add that when I redo my documentation.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2022 at 5:52 PM Robert  wrote:

> They would have been a bad customer too...
>
> On 8/15/22 12:05 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>
> They were mad at the other provider before they switched to us - so who
> knows?
>
> By the time she got to me she had already aggravated the installer, the
> field service manager, the customer service manager, the billing manager,
> and the operations manager.
>
> Given there was little chance I could make her happy I figured it was
> better to make 5 other people happy.   She might not have been happy with
> the result, but everybody else was.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2022, at 1:49 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Did she get service from some other provider?
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, August 15, 2022 11:40 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review
>
> Nope.
>
>
>
> On Aug 15, 2022, at 12:19 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Did she ever capitulate?
>
>
> *From:* Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, August 15, 2022 7:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review
>
> Same. Customer refused to sign the service agreement after the
> install.   She was kind of pissed off when we went back and picked up the
> equipment.Oh well.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On Aug 14, 2022, at 6:16 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>
> I don't know about that. We've had people who requested service, and then
> refused to sign our service agreement. No signy. No servicey. Our service
> agreement was pretty short and simple.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 1:01 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> You guys might not sign it, but a homeowner wanting fiber has the choice
>> of a) no fiber or b) sign itthey're going to sign it.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2022 at 12:10 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That had like an 8 or 9 dollar price tag?
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 9:41 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> They didn’t call for a locate prior to drilling.  Scuba divers had to
>>>> dive inside the pipe and weld on a patch from the inside.  Quite the
>>>> ordeal.  Good thing we had good insurance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2022 8:25 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review
>>>>
>>>> Ouch
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 8:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One of them was 48” I think and washed out a railroad track...  And it
>>>>> was our fault...
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 13, 2022 5:00 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Release of Liability Review
>>>>>
>>>>> I have repaired tons of stuff, bought trees, bought sod, whatever it
>>>>> takes to make the landowner happy.  Not really their fault either if they
>>>>> don’t know it is there.  Just the cost of doing business.  GL takes care 
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[Steve Jones]

godaddy is always the problem.


On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Thanks everyone.  Not sure what is to blame here.  It appears Godaddy is
> the problem at times.  Working better now.  But all of you had a much
> different tracert than I did.  I had a multple second delay between cogents
> last node and godaddy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2023 11:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert
>
> See
> https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/http-www-microtrench-blades-com/7zj3glpe5h?form_factor=mobile
> for some insights.
>
> Seems like there are some very large images which can be better
> compressed.   And a few other things.
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023, 10:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
>> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>>
>> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Air vac

[Steve Jones]

I dont know the math behind air pressure, but if I split the 150psi into
two, then does each orifice get 75psi?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 9:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Spoke to a venturi engineer just now.  He says 72 psi is the magic
> number.  It has something to do with atmospheric air pressure and the
> density of the air.  I presume that number would change with altitude.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 22, 2023 9:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Air vac
>
> I use an auger to dig them, vac to clear them. Same thing with the
> airspade/airvac combo.  I dont do posts less than 48 inches. Whats really
> pushing this is the last project was installing 2 inch duct for the power
> company, the old primaries were failed concentric, as it turns out the
> stuff is dangerous, it faults on its own, jabbing shovels and post hole
> diggers at it is a recipe for disaster and water is its mortal enemy. Im
> chasing more contracts with that power company to replace more of that
> concentric. Im not gonna get the cutting power of water, but ill have dry
> spoils to put back in the hole.
>
> I wish I hadnt done all the drugs, id be able to understand the maths on
> this, im wondering if I cant split the input and double the lift with two
> venturis
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 9:23 AM  wrote:
>
>> So you dug post holes with a shop vac?  Is it sandy where you are?  I
>> feel like I hit about 10,000 rocks per post hole.  Many too big for a vac
>> hose, and many just big enough to clog it.
>>
>> I might have to try it anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 6:12 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Air vac
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm having better luck with the prototype than a shop vac already, just
>> trying to improve the lift. Toting a generator isnt really an option.
>>
>> I also just have a shop vac hose, if theres moisture the dirt collects on
>> the sides with a shop vac and loses lift. That's how I've always dug post
>> holes.
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think you would have better luck with a strong shop vac and a 30 gallon
>> drum.  I have seen guys do that and it worked OK.  Air powered vacuum
>> producers work but I don’t know how well.  Sometimes they are called
>> eductors or ejectors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Take a look at this one:
>>
>>
>> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/2-in-line-vac-only-aluminum?infoParam.campaignId=T9F=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioM68tuz0PVLcvHFy4CRspRtvhy5gEQQryMrUkOoNv4MVeUTRSWTkvxoCrv8QAvD_BwE
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck McCown
>>
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503 Office
>> 435-830-4306 Cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench.pro
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:56 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Air vac
>>
>>
>>
>> I need advice from you nerds.
>>
>> I'm a broke joke, so hydrovac isnt in my budget. Besides, I want dry
>> spoils to put back in the hole.
>>
>> This revision works for venturi. I have multiple size reducer but right
>> now I'm just doing 3/4 to to inch. The 3/4 to 1 then 1 to half back to 1.5
>> for the venturi side seemed to have the best lift, but the hardware store
>> didnt have everything, so it's all in 2 inch right now
>>
>> I'll dump to a 2000lb peanut sack if I can find one, but for now I'll
>> just use a 30 gallon drum and dump on the mega movers.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is for use in conjunction with the airspade I did have some coin to
>> get.
>>
>>
>>
>> Venturi math gets complicated and I'm full retard so I need to find he
>> best ways to increase negative pressure and where to drill the ports.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also wonder if theres an option to recapture the exhaust into the
>> airspade.
>>
>>
>>
>> I need you nerds to go full geek.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I can get valves correct I'll have the local machinist make me a
>> couple that are pressure rated.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is to mimic the airvac I also cant afford.
>>
>>
>>
>> This proof of concept has the lift to clear potholes and handholes,  but
>> I need t

Re: [AFMUG] Air vac

[Steve Jones]

I use an auger to dig them, vac to clear them. Same thing with the
airspade/airvac combo.  I dont do posts less than 48 inches. Whats really
pushing this is the last project was installing 2 inch duct for the power
company, the old primaries were failed concentric, as it turns out the
stuff is dangerous, it faults on its own, jabbing shovels and post hole
diggers at it is a recipe for disaster and water is its mortal enemy. Im
chasing more contracts with that power company to replace more of that
concentric. Im not gonna get the cutting power of water, but ill have dry
spoils to put back in the hole.

I wish I hadnt done all the drugs, id be able to understand the maths on
this, im wondering if I cant split the input and double the lift with two
venturis

On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 9:23 AM  wrote:

> So you dug post holes with a shop vac?  Is it sandy where you are?  I feel
> like I hit about 10,000 rocks per post hole.  Many too big for a vac hose,
> and many just big enough to clog it.
>
> I might have to try it anyway.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 6:12 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Air vac
>
>
>
> I'm having better luck with the prototype than a shop vac already, just
> trying to improve the lift. Toting a generator isnt really an option.
>
> I also just have a shop vac hose, if theres moisture the dirt collects on
> the sides with a shop vac and loses lift. That's how I've always dug post
> holes.
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> I think you would have better luck with a strong shop vac and a 30 gallon
> drum.  I have seen guys do that and it worked OK.  Air powered vacuum
> producers work but I don’t know how well.  Sometimes they are called
> eductors or ejectors.
>
>
>
> Take a look at this one:
>
>
> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/2-in-line-vac-only-aluminum?infoParam.campaignId=T9F=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioM68tuz0PVLcvHFy4CRspRtvhy5gEQQryMrUkOoNv4MVeUTRSWTkvxoCrv8QAvD_BwE
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:56 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Air vac
>
>
>
> I need advice from you nerds.
>
> I'm a broke joke, so hydrovac isnt in my budget. Besides, I want dry
> spoils to put back in the hole.
>
> This revision works for venturi. I have multiple size reducer but right
> now I'm just doing 3/4 to to inch. The 3/4 to 1 then 1 to half back to 1.5
> for the venturi side seemed to have the best lift, but the hardware store
> didnt have everything, so it's all in 2 inch right now
>
> I'll dump to a 2000lb peanut sack if I can find one, but for now I'll just
> use a 30 gallon drum and dump on the mega movers.
>
>
>
> This is for use in conjunction with the airspade I did have some coin to
> get.
>
>
>
> Venturi math gets complicated and I'm full retard so I need to find he
> best ways to increase negative pressure and where to drill the ports.
>
>
>
> I also wonder if theres an option to recapture the exhaust into the
> airspade.
>
>
>
> I need you nerds to go full geek.
>
>
>
> If I can get valves correct I'll have the local machinist make me a couple
> that are pressure rated.
>
>
>
> This is to mimic the airvac I also cant afford.
>
>
>
> This proof of concept has the lift to clear potholes and handholes,  but I
> need to clean it up and get more efficiency.
>
> A side discovery is that this setup is perfect for blowing straw and seed
> with glue
> --
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cellular router question

[Steve Jones]

I worked with the cradlepoint engineers. We had a hard time finding any
scenario where a repeater would not cause more harm than good. Ended with a
700 dollar antenna recomended so price wasnt even all that much more than a
quality repeater.
The biggest concern was the unavoidable feedback loop that would occur



On Sun, May 21, 2023, 6:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> That's what I was thinking...
>
> On Sun, May 21, 2023, 12:48 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Just went through this with a customer. Dont do it. Get a sim router with
>> external connector and go to an external antenna
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2023, 1:31 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an upcoming project to install a cellular router in a canyon site
>>> with spotty service..(-127, -138dBm)...
>>> I was wondering if anyone has used the output port of booster with cable
>>> to input port of cellular router?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Air vac

[Steve Jones]

I'm having better luck with the prototype than a shop vac already, just
trying to improve the lift. Toting a generator isnt really an option.
I also just have a shop vac hose, if theres moisture the dirt collects on
the sides with a shop vac and loses lift. That's how I've always dug post
holes.

On Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:53 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I think you would have better luck with a strong shop vac and a 30 gallon
> drum.  I have seen guys do that and it worked OK.  Air powered vacuum
> producers work but I don’t know how well.  Sometimes they are called
> eductors or ejectors.
>
> Take a look at this one:
>
> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/2-in-line-vac-only-aluminum?infoParam.campaignId=T9F=CjwKCAjwgqejBhBAEiwAuWHioM68tuz0PVLcvHFy4CRspRtvhy5gEQQryMrUkOoNv4MVeUTRSWTkvxoCrv8QAvD_BwE
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 21, 2023 11:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Air vac
>
> I need advice from you nerds.
> I'm a broke joke, so hydrovac isnt in my budget. Besides, I want dry
> spoils to put back in the hole.
> This revision works for venturi. I have multiple size reducer but right
> now I'm just doing 3/4 to to inch. The 3/4 to 1 then 1 to half back to 1.5
> for the venturi side seemed to have the best lift, but the hardware store
> didnt have everything, so it's all in 2 inch right now
> I'll dump to a 2000lb peanut sack if I can find one, but for now I'll just
> use a 30 gallon drum and dump on the mega movers.
>
> This is for use in conjunction with the airspade I did have some coin to
> get.
>
> Venturi math gets complicated and I'm full retard so I need to find he
> best ways to increase negative pressure and where to drill the ports.
>
> I also wonder if theres an option to recapture the exhaust into the
> airspade.
>
> I need you nerds to go full geek.
>
> If I can get valves correct I'll have the local machinist make me a couple
> that are pressure rated.
>
> This is to mimic the airvac I also cant afford.
>
> This proof of concept has the lift to clear potholes and handholes,  but I
> need to clean it up and get more efficiency.
> A side discovery is that this setup is perfect for blowing straw and seed
> with glue
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cellular router question

[Steve Jones]

Just went through this with a customer. Dont do it. Get a sim router with
external connector and go to an external antenna

On Sun, May 21, 2023, 1:31 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I have an upcoming project to install a cellular router in a canyon site
> with spotty service..(-127, -138dBm)...
> I was wondering if anyone has used the output port of booster with cable
> to input port of cellular router?
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] asus routers

[Steve Jones]

yeah, serverplus screwed up their notifications email again so everybody is
getting bounces from them. lol

asus routers are always getting hijacked I dont know why anybody still uses
them

On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:19 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> ?? we had one go down yesterday
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 12:03 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> If you have customers running asus..   Shit is hitting the wall.
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> TJ Trout
> Volt Broadband
> 209.480.3122 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] Insurance

[Steve Jones]

10 bucks a month, I wont poison or stab them for 6 months. Boom. Now you
have insurance out the gate. Send me my check upon each new hire

On Mon, May 15, 2023, 10:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I got crap on a job listing for offering health insurance after 6 months.
> My opinion is that we hire untrained entry level people.  They are young
> and poor.  Young might mean healthy, poor does mean medicaid eligibility.
> If they are any good and have lasted 6 months then insurance is a nice
> thing to add along with PTO etc.  We give raises twice a year guaranteed.
>
> Opinions?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Headphones and earbuds

[Steve Jones]

Hearing protection, or open ears in manufacturing. Even with hearing
protection, you will hear the odd noise in the hum. noise cancelling is bad
juju because its only injecting more energy. People who demand shit like
earbuds also dont comprehend why they can watch cat videos on the machine.

Fuck them all anyway. your house, your rules. you should go find him on the
street and wait til hes mowing with them on, come up behind him and push
his ass under the mower, while hes bleeding to death, ask him what he might
have done different had he heard you coming. Theres no reason not to also
make this a teachable moment. He may argue about the mower being loud and
he wouldnt have heard you anyway, so in that case it may just be better to
wait til hes swinging in a hammock with his ear buds in and shiv him in the
neck

On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 4:18 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> If you can't hear ambient noise it's an issue.
>
> Safety violation.
>
> My take:
>
> If it's a loud area,  then you need hearing protection.   Note that most
> earbuds don't isolate that much, as such if you're even moderately close to
> the osha hearing protection levels then you can exceed them by permitting
> earbud use.  Hearing outside noise is not nearly as important here as
> ensuring that you don't exceed dB levels.
>
> In quieter areas, then you have the need to hear ambient noise.
>  Depending on the area and whether you feel that being aware of the
> direction of the noise is important, having a one earbud policy is often
> OK.
>
> Or you can demand use of something like:
>
> https://amp.earplugstore.com/saf-t-ear-bluetooth-dual-safety-earbuds.html
>
> From an enforcement perspective,  a no earbud at all policy is easiest.
>
> On Fri, May 12, 2023, 1:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> I warned an employee wearing noise cancelling earphones that they were a
>> safety hazard yesterday.  Today I noticed he had them on again, I pointed
>> to his ear.  He went off on me, complaining that everyone else had
>> earbuds.  I told him that many times I started talking to him and he either
>> acted like he was not hearing anything or he chose to ignore me.  Yadda y
>> adda, yadda.  He quit a few minutes later.  Good worker but lousy
>> attitude.  43 years old and had worked about 20 different places.
>>
>> So I adopted an open ears policy.  If I am the asshole, that is fine.  I
>> am a boomer and proud of it.
>>
>> Whadya y’all think?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Should Employees Be Allowed to Wear Earbuds?*
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Currently, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) does
>> not have guidelines on earbud use in the workplace. However, OSHA has
>> issued recommendations regarding earbud use while on the job. Of course,
>> wearing earbuds in some work environments poses more of a threat than in
>> others.
>>
>> Earbud Dangers
>>
>> The dangers of wearing earbuds while on the job are similar to
>> non-employment use of these devices. People wearing earbuds simply cannot
>> hear emergency signals, but it goes beyond that. Overall, earbuds may pose
>> a safety hazard because the employee is less cognizant of their
>> surroundings and is not paying attention to their safety.
>>
>> No Earbuds Allowed
>>
>> OSHA urges employers to forbidTop of Form
>>
>>  Bottom of Form
>>
>> the use of earbuds when workers are operating any sort of heavy
>> equipment. Anyone working on a manufacturing or construction site where
>> heavy equipment is used should not have earbuds, headphones, or similar
>> devices on their heads. For example, even if the forklift operator is not
>> wearing earbuds, a fellow employee in the vicinity using these devices
>> could end up getting hit if they cannot hear the machine. Along with
>> earbuds, the same warnings hold true for smartphones.  Manufacturing
>> machinery such as milling machines emit noises that indicate problem
>> conditions or unsafe conditions.  Operators of machines need to be able
>> to hear what is going on with the machine.
>>
>> Other Earbud Risks
>>
>> In most manufacturing industries, various energy-related hazards exist.
>> These may include chemical, electrical, or fire hazards. Failure to hear a
>> warning device due to earbud use not only puts that employee at risk if
>> they cannot hear warnings from coworkers but may be at risk as earbuds also
>> affect evacuations or the realization that equipment is not functioning
>> properly. For maximum safety, no employee in a manufacturing setting should
>> wear earbuds, even if they are not in an area of heavy equipment use. That
>> includes those working in warehouses. Earbuds are never a substitute for
>> any type of hearing protection on the job.
>>
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[AFMUG] Compressor / component CFM mismatch

[Steve Jones]

I have an airspade coming. I got the 105cfm variant because its whats
available, they do have 150 and 225 cfm

My partners compressor is 275 cfm. Ive never really looked at controls to
see if its adjustable beyond just the valve since we use it for blowing
material only

will a 105 cfm nozzle just restrict flow or will it tear it apart? Sales
guy said it would be fine, but sales guys are dumb.

Im dumb too, I have issues comprehending the difference between PSI and
CFM, I assume its a volts/amps comparison and psi is applied volts, CFM is
available amps for consumption, but its the restriction component im
struggling to comprehend and dont want to blow up a $3k tool.
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Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"

[Steve Jones]

I hate when customers do that, because they never bring their firewall with
them.

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 4:16 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> I would take one of their phones completely offsite, preferably to a
> completely different provider (or if that isn't possible, another segment
> of your network).   If they work fine there, it is probably a problem there
> in your network.  Likely if it says forbidden again it's a problem with the
> voip provider.  We're a grandstream shop here but when i've seen forbidden
> it is almost always a voip provider problem.
>
> Good luck!  I usually don't give network advice, i'm by far not the
> smartest guy here. :)
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 3, 2023 1:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"
>
> I was hoping somebody would know would triggers a “Forbidden” message on
> the Yealink’s screen.  I can assume, but I don’t know.
>
>
>
> “Do other devices have issues or are all issues isolated to Zoom phones?”
> ß good question.  The phones are in focus because having no phones is an
> emergent issue.  I can’t prove there *aren’t* any other related issues.
> That’s part of why I want to understand what’s happening.  It’s an
> apartment building.  If there are tenants having some weirdly specific
> issue like this they might not have reported it yet.
>
>
>
> You see two subnets because I moved the phones to a different VLAN….that
> was something their IT guy suggested.  The one in 100.64.x.x is just
> unplugged or something and that was the last known IP.
>
>
>
> I appreciate the suggestions regarding ALG and Firewall rules, but those
> have been checked and re-checked.
>
>
>
> We do provide the Internet access, and for historical reasons we do also
> control the router and switches.  We’re moving away from managed systems
> like that, but for the next 6 months or so it’s still in my purview.
>
>
>
> What we did change on Monday was layer2 topology.  There were literally 10
> switches in between these phones and the router.  Now there are 2.  That
> should be *better* if anything.  They’re blaming their issues on that
> change, but I don’t see *how*.  It’s the same switches except I jumpered
> up a different fiber path through the building to shorten that 10 switch
> daisy chain.  The only thing new is a couple of SFP transceivers on
> previously unused ports.  I did compare port settings and there’s no
> difference between new and old.  I might go swap transceivers, but that
> would be an act of desperation because it would make no sense.
>
>
>
> I haven’t talked to Zoom directly, but if the customer’s IT guy is to be
> believed they are remarkably unhelpful.
>
>
>
> Also exciting is the customer is part of a larger corporation and their IT
> guy is in another state.  The best we can do for remote hands is a
> maintenance person.  I can go there again and play around, but I don’t
> wanna.  Firstly, I got other stuff to do.  Secondly, there’s the “post hoc
> ergo propter hoc” issue.  Any time people see you touch something they may
> assume any problem they have for the next month is because you were there.
> “I can’t print, car won’t start, and there’s a wasp nest in the attic…..I
> bet it was that damn internet guy.”
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 03, 2023 1:12 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"
>
>
>
> Are the two private subnets in the screenshot the one network at the one
> location?  Are you providing the internet?  Do you have SIP ALG enabled?
> Do other devices have issues or are all issues isolated to Zoom phones?
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 12:47 PM  wrote:
>
> Apparently Zoom tier1 isn’t helping.  “Check your firewall settings” and
> other basic stuff.  I don’t know if they’re just script readers or if this
> IT guy doesn’t know what to ask.
>
>
>
> I don’t want to be the guy who just points fingers at the other guy, so
> I’m trying.  I just wish I could capture the SIP messages….friggin TLS so
> super secure that I can’t friggin help you.  If only the world had no bad
> people, then we wouldn’t need security.
>
> I want to hear Steve Jones’s plan for eliminating all the bad people.  I
> bet he has one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 03, 2023 10:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"
>
>
>
> This is really simple. If they can ping the internet or do anything else
> that requires internet at the same time the phones show offline, it's not
> your problem. They should be contacting their phone provider.
>
>
>
> Their voip provider can provide them host names to ping or trace to in
> order to troubleshoot. If you don't sell the voip, you shouldn't be
> troubleshooting it aside from making sure your network ping, jitter, and
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"

[Steve Jones]

Its a bold assumption that its the bad people i want to eliminate (-:

Im not saying either way

but if there were no "good" people, then "bad" people could only stand to
get better. growth like that brings joy
If all the "bad" people were gone, then good people would only stand to get
worse. Decline brings sadness.

Call me the harbinger of joy

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 11:47 AM  wrote:

> Apparently Zoom tier1 isn’t helping.  “Check your firewall settings” and
> other basic stuff.  I don’t know if they’re just script readers or if this
> IT guy doesn’t know what to ask.
>
>
>
> I don’t want to be the guy who just points fingers at the other guy, so
> I’m trying.  I just wish I could capture the SIP messages….friggin TLS so
> super secure that I can’t friggin help you.  If only the world had no bad
> people, then we wouldn’t need security.
>
> I want to hear Steve Jones’s plan for eliminating all the bad people.  I
> bet he has one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 03, 2023 10:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"
>
>
>
> This is really simple. If they can ping the internet or do anything else
> that requires internet at the same time the phones show offline, it's not
> your problem. They should be contacting their phone provider.
>
>
>
> Their voip provider can provide them host names to ping or trace to in
> order to troubleshoot. If you don't sell the voip, you shouldn't be
> troubleshooting it aside from making sure your network ping, jitter, and
> packetloss are normal.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2023, 8:13 AM  wrote:
>
> I’m trying to help a customer with their Yealink phones.  Their provider
> is Zoom.
>
> I’m 99% sure this is not my problem, but I’m chronically too nice to
> people so I’m helping anyway.
>
>
>
> So apparently when they go to dial out they’ll get a message on the screen
> saying “Forbidden”.  I’m not sure if there’s more to the message because I
> only know what they’re telling me.   When this starts happening their IT
> guy says the phones show up as “offline” in whatever management portal
> they’re using.  They factory reset the phone, it reprovisions, shows up as
> “online” in their portal and works again for some period of minutes or
> hours and then does the same thing again.  I asked if a simple reboot
> works, but the IT guy says they factory reset instead of reboot because
> it’s so easy to do .
>
>
>
> They point at me because the phone is “offline”, and they’re tying it to
> network maintenance that was done on Monday morning, but their story is not
> totally consistent about what day it started.  May have been Monday, may
> have been last week, depends who you ask.  I’ve taken packet captures and I
> can see the supposedly “offline” phone talking on port 443 to an AWS server
> (I assume provisioning server) and talking to Zoom on port 5091.  That’s
> all TLS/SSL so I can’t see the messages, but they’re definitely still
> talking to the mothership when they’re reported as “offline”.  They also do
> other normal stuff like DNS queries, NTP sync, and normal LAN chatter like
> CDP, ARP, etc.  I also checked for packet loss to the phones and there’s
> none/negligible loss.  So I’m telling these guys your phones are 100%
> definitely *not* offline.  I told them they need to check with Zoom to
> see what application layer messages are happening, because due to the
> encryption I don’t have a clue, but I’d wager the carrier is sending back a
> 403 Forbidden for some reason.
>
>
>
> Below is a screenshot of his management tool (customer name blocked out).
> I don’t recognize it, maybe one of you all does.
>
> In the meantime I’m wondering if the collective has seen something like
> this with Yealink and/or Zoom.  Any wild-ass guesses?
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Yealink "Forbidden"

[Steve Jones]

Make sure they disable any ALG "helpers" in their firewall.
Make sure, if youre multihomed that in/out arent asymmetric, i dont know
why, but this periodically has caused issues for sip
that interface looks similar to goto
have the it guy give the phone a completely unrestricted policy for testing
he will say "we didnt change anything". fuck him. if theyre defaulting,
theyre probably also pulling current FW down.
We ran into a timebomb issue where broadcom had made some change to their
services and they only applied when a session was terminated and restored,
some PBX, this was months/years later.
They have an IT guy, have him send you the failures that are occuring. not
descriptions, but actual diagnostic data, its his job, theyre literally
paying this mope for it.
Dont spend time helping people with their SIP issues, I do it too often

On Wed, May 3, 2023 at 10:48 AM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> This is really simple. If they can ping the internet or do anything else
> that requires internet at the same time the phones show offline, it's not
> your problem. They should be contacting their phone provider.
>
> Their voip provider can provide them host names to ping or trace to in
> order to troubleshoot. If you don't sell the voip, you shouldn't be
> troubleshooting it aside from making sure your network ping, jitter, and
> packetloss are normal.
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2023, 8:13 AM  wrote:
>
>> I’m trying to help a customer with their Yealink phones.  Their provider
>> is Zoom.
>>
>> I’m 99% sure this is not my problem, but I’m chronically too nice to
>> people so I’m helping anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> So apparently when they go to dial out they’ll get a message on the
>> screen saying “Forbidden”.  I’m not sure if there’s more to the message
>> because I only know what they’re telling me.   When this starts happening
>> their IT guy says the phones show up as “offline” in whatever management
>> portal they’re using.  They factory reset the phone, it reprovisions, shows
>> up as “online” in their portal and works again for some period of minutes
>> or hours and then does the same thing again.  I asked if a simple reboot
>> works, but the IT guy says they factory reset instead of reboot because
>> it’s so easy to do .
>>
>>
>>
>> They point at me because the phone is “offline”, and they’re tying it to
>> network maintenance that was done on Monday morning, but their story is not
>> totally consistent about what day it started.  May have been Monday, may
>> have been last week, depends who you ask.  I’ve taken packet captures and I
>> can see the supposedly “offline” phone talking on port 443 to an AWS server
>> (I assume provisioning server) and talking to Zoom on port 5091.  That’s
>> all TLS/SSL so I can’t see the messages, but they’re definitely still
>> talking to the mothership when they’re reported as “offline”.  They also do
>> other normal stuff like DNS queries, NTP sync, and normal LAN chatter like
>> CDP, ARP, etc.  I also checked for packet loss to the phones and there’s
>> none/negligible loss.  So I’m telling these guys your phones are 100%
>> definitely *not* offline.  I told them they need to check with Zoom to
>> see what application layer messages are happening, because due to the
>> encryption I don’t have a clue, but I’d wager the carrier is sending back a
>> 403 Forbidden for some reason.
>>
>>
>>
>> Below is a screenshot of his management tool (customer name blocked
>> out).  I don’t recognize it, maybe one of you all does.
>>
>> In the meantime I’m wondering if the collective has seen something like
>> this with Yealink and/or Zoom.  Any wild-ass guesses?
>>
>>
>>
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[AFMUG] chuck-where da mtows at

[Steve Jones]

Ar eyou still making these?

the websites nothing but blades now
wbmfg.com isnt working

wheres the 100grands?
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Re: [AFMUG] Cable Spooler

[Steve Jones]

I have a cordless dewalt I wrapped rubber splice tape around the chuck just
for this works perfect. works great for respooling mule tape also. just
hold the chuck up against the spool edge and letter rip. a fancy pants city
slicker might make a bracket to hold it too

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 9:54 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm sure something exists, but I can't find the right term.  Is there a
> cheap/easy way of spooling up small cable spools.  12"-18" diameter
> wooden spools.  I was thinking like a small tire or something in a drill
> to hold against the edge of the spool to spin it while another person
> guides the wire on the spool.  Is something like this for sale?  I found
> lots of fishing line spoolers, but they are small.  And a 'Drill wheel'
> Gives me a bunch of sanding tools. I'm guessing I just haven't thought
> of the right term to search for yet.
>
> I've had multiple boxes of Shireen DC-1030 cable that have come with
> Broken cardboard spools in the box, and we have to re-spool the entire
> box onto a new spool by hand.  Spinning the wooden spool by hand for a
> thousand rotations is very tiring.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Amish Lands

[Steve Jones]

obviously you dont want your kids playing near the punji traps or
claymores. but digging the holes and sharpening the sticks for the traps is
a good family project. And if you catch one of the petas or neonazis in the
holes, its an excellent opportunity to teach problem solving skills, like
where to separate the joints so that the captures are more easily
transported to the pig pen. Its about working smarter, not harder. Then
there is melting the fillings down into ingots and the grinding of the
teeth to powder for the gardens. So many opportunities on a compound for
family bonding.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 8:35 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I mean maybe?  I used ludicrous examples because I'm not trying to pick on
> anyone particular.  I don't care which side of the cup you drink the
> kool-aid from, I just don't want a bunch of lunatics hanging around where
> my kids might be playing.
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 9:17 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> a proper compound doesnt need to concern itself with the quality of the
>> neighbors. All you need to worry about is proper placement of punji traps
>> and claymores. Its the alphabets you need to worry about, they have
>> helicopters
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 5:48 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> So would you guys actually buy that compound? I'm trying to wrap my head
>>> around who would buy it and what for.
>>>
>>> I was looking at an empty lot to be my little outdoor playground, and it
>>> has one of these Amish places adjacent to it.  In the back of my head I'm
>>> picturing some kind of weirdo cultists moving in.  Like nudist PETA
>>> eco-terrorists or  neo-confederate klansmen.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:09 PM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Amish are making a mass exodus from NY.  You can drive through
>>>> Amish communities and see "for sale" signs one after the other.  The Amish
>>>> are generally known for good workmanship, to the point where some people go
>>>> out of their way to get Amish building contractors.  They also have
>>>> multigenerational households, so you get these large properties with huge
>>>> well-built houses, barns, and outbuildings.  The problem is they have no
>>>> utilities at all.  They'll have hand pumped wells and outhouses and wood
>>>> stoves.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/234-Hunts-Corners-Center-Lisle-Rd-Marathon-NY-13803/223346029_zpid/
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> I linked the above example because it was easy to find, but that
>>>> particular one has electric out by the road.  I saw a similar one for sale
>>>> where there was no electric service available and it was listed for $140k.
>>>> That's a friggin 'steal except for one thing:  What could you do with a
>>>> huge house with no electricity?  A scout camp?  Start a cult?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Amish Lands

[Steve Jones]

a proper compound doesnt need to concern itself with the quality of the
neighbors. All you need to worry about is proper placement of punji traps
and claymores. Its the alphabets you need to worry about, they have
helicopters


On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 5:48 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> So would you guys actually buy that compound? I'm trying to wrap my head
> around who would buy it and what for.
>
> I was looking at an empty lot to be my little outdoor playground, and it
> has one of these Amish places adjacent to it.  In the back of my head I'm
> picturing some kind of weirdo cultists moving in.  Like nudist PETA
> eco-terrorists or  neo-confederate klansmen.
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:09 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> The Amish are making a mass exodus from NY.  You can drive through Amish
>> communities and see "for sale" signs one after the other.  The Amish are
>> generally known for good workmanship, to the point where some people go out
>> of their way to get Amish building contractors.  They also have
>> multigenerational households, so you get these large properties with huge
>> well-built houses, barns, and outbuildings.  The problem is they have no
>> utilities at all.  They'll have hand pumped wells and outhouses and wood
>> stoves.
>>
>>
>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/234-Hunts-Corners-Center-Lisle-Rd-Marathon-NY-13803/223346029_zpid/
>> ?
>>
>> I linked the above example because it was easy to find, but that
>> particular one has electric out by the road.  I saw a similar one for sale
>> where there was no electric service available and it was listed for $140k.
>> That's a friggin 'steal except for one thing:  What could you do with a
>> huge house with no electricity?  A scout camp?  Start a cult?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Amish Lands

[Steve Jones]

its not overly complicated to wire an unwired home, especially an amish
built home which will follow specific design standards. Also, a lot of
amish homes do have wire present, just not connected. Amish are frugal and
hen amenities, but they are also business savvy and know about potential
resale value. the referenced home has corded machines in the woodshop, so
id guess when the heathens arent looking, the breaker behind the wood panel
gets turned on

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 9:01 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The community just south of us is 100% off-grid. All of them are solar,
> and last I looked a couple also had wind generators.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 6:48 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I once did a complete telco C.O. with HVAC 100% solar.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 7:25 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Amish Lands
>>
>> Friend of mine has set up three homes with solar panels and batteries out
>> in the desert near us...100% off the grid...
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023, 7:14 PM Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Off grid homes are easy now with LFP batteries, it would just be the
>>> hassle of wiring it, specially as they probably don't use sheet rock
>>> interior walls.   So you are probably doing conduit all around the
>>> outside walls.   But they probably all have basements that you could
>>> also wire through.
>>>
>>> On 4/20/23 5:09 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> > The Amish are making a mass exodus from NY.  You can drive through
>>> > Amish communities and see "for sale" signs one after the other.  The
>>> > Amish are generally known for good workmanship, to the point where
>>> > some people go out of their way to get Amish building contractors.
>>> > They also have multigenerational households, so you get these large
>>> > properties with huge well-built houses, barns, and outbuildings.  The
>>> > problem is they have no utilities at all.  They'll have hand pumped
>>> > wells and outhouses and wood stoves.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/234-Hunts-Corners-Center-Lisle-Rd-Marathon-NY-13803/223346029_zpid/
>>> ?
>>> >
>>> > I linked the above example because it was easy to find, but that
>>> > particular one has electric out by the road.  I saw a similar one for
>>> > sale where there was no electric service available and it was listed
>>> > for $140k.  That's a friggin 'steal except for one thing:  What could
>>> > you do with a huge house with no electricity?  A scout camp?  Start a
>>> > cult?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Steve Jones]

we had to change our ospf from simple to md5 and from point to point to
broadcast to get it to play ball between v7 and v6

On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:03 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
>
>
> I will.  I think v7 will be able to handle BGP, OSPF and Filter rules just
> fine.  Learning the new configure of v7 should not be a huge issue.  The
> big thing I'm worried about is the OSPF interaction between the versions.
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:52:37 AM, you wrote:
>
>
> Let us know how that goes - I was just looking at the 2116 myself.
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 10:40 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>>
>>
>> I think I'll have to upgrade to v7 and a some 2216 units.  Guess it is
>> time to try to integrate some v7 units into the v6 network and see what
>> happens.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Thursday, April 20, 2023, 10:10:32 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Years ago on ROX v6 on a 1036, it would take 5 - 10 minutes for /ip route
>> print to reflect an upstream change and then another 5 - 10 minutes for the
>> traffic to actually change directions.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Josh Luthman" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 19, 2023 12:25:14 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>
>> I want to say my old x86 would do full tables in 3 minutes...that's been
>> a while.
>>
>> I think the CCR1009/1036/1072 is a couple of minutes, I don't think it's
>> 10-15 though.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 11:20 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis,
>>>
>>> Using mikrotik routers.
>>>
>>> Two MaxxWave x86 i5 8 core 10 years old v6.47.9
>>>
>>> One CCR1072 v6.47.9
>>>
>>> Yes taking full tables.
>>>
>>> Tried BFD  while back.  Didn't seem that my upstream was supporting it.
>>> Never established a session.
>>>
>>> Thinking I may need to start looking at new hardware and v7.  But before
>>> I go that route, what should I expect if I do get 3 brand new
>>> CCR2116-12G-4S+ running v7.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>> Myakka Communications
>>> www.Myakka.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 11:08:45 AM, you wrote:
>>>
>>> DB> Really depends on a lot of things.
>>>
>>> DB> 1.What router are you using?
>>> DB> 2. Are you taking full tables from all of your upstreams?
>>> DB> 3. Are you not using BFD ?
>>> DB> 4.  What version of RouterOS are you using?
>>>
>>> DB> V7 will be faster, 2216 will be faster than a 1036, your hold time
>>> is kinda long..
>>>
>>>
>>> DB> Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> DB> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
>>> ePMP Certified
>>> DB> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
>>> DB> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> DB> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> DB> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>> DB> Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com
>>>
>>> DB> -Original Message-
>>> DB> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka
>>> Technologies
>>> DB> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 9:48 AM
>>> DB> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> DB> Subject: [AFMUG] BGP Question
>>>
>>> DB> We have two circuits coming into our NOC.  We peer with 3 different
>>> providers on each circuit.  If a circuit fails, BGP will do it's magic and
>>> traffic will start flowing though the surviving circuit.
>>>
>>> DB> However, we seemed to get about 5 - 10 minutes of unstable Internet
>>> while this is happening.  Is this normal? If not, what can I do to speed up
>>> the process?  Is it a function of my routers having to rebuild routes?
>>> Will new faster routers help?  Is it a function of timers?  Keep-Alive is
>>> 30s and hold is at 90s.  Should I investigate BFD?
>>>
>>> DB> How fast could I expect to get this fail-over to work under best
>>> conditions?
>>>
>>> DB> Thanks,
>>> DB>  Mark  

Re: [AFMUG] BGP Question

[Steve Jones]

If you have a peer that is dropping more than others, weight them so they
are the lowest priority to the world. Internally youll have a minor blip
but the world is gonna do its own thing. We announce all our prefixes as
/24 so we can jack around with them more granularly, so if you have a
specific set of customers this is more impactful to you can weight them to
the reliable peers, but at the cost of path quality

On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 10:04 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> It's related to your hold timer and your convergence time. Lower to 14/45s
> and it will be much faster.
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 5:31 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
> wrote:
>
>> Trey,
>>
>> That is the main question.  If it takes the rest of the Internet 10 mins
>> to figure out my BGP dropped, does it matter if I spend $ of some super
>> fast router that can build the tables in 30s?
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wednesday, April 19, 2023, 5:55:30 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> TS> You can prevent this by having a backup default route. The other
>> thing is if you are n a physical interface or aggregated interface with a
>> vlan on your upstream's router. If its physical it should stop routing
>> traffic when it sees the interface down. If not it may keep trying to send
>> traffic down that interface. BFD can help with this. It will Also depend on
>> how your provider handles the traffic when the  the session with you
>> terminates. If it will forward it on to your other providers or not. If
>> your alternate providers are connected closely to you it shouldn't take to
>> long, but it can take 10-20min for the loss of the peer to propagate across
>> all global routing tables.
>>
>> TS> On 4/19/23 9:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>> >> We have two circuits coming into our NOC.  We peer with 3 different
>> providers on each circuit.  If a circuit fails, BGP will do it's magic and
>> traffic will start flowing though the surviving circuit.
>> >>
>> >> However, we seemed to get about 5 - 10 minutes of unstable Internet
>> while this is happening.  Is this normal? If not, what can I do to speed up
>> the process?  Is it a function of my routers having to rebuild routes?
>> Will new faster routers help?  Is it a function of timers?  Keep-Alive is
>> 30s and hold is at 90s.  Should I investigate BFD?
>> >>
>> >> How fast could I expect to get this fail-over to work under best
>> conditions?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >>   Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>> >>
>> >> Myakka Communications
>> >> www.Myakka.com
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Short Term Employee

[Steve Jones]

Im new to owning a company and really struggling with being the boss boss.
One of the big things im struggling with is identifying where i am
micromanaging. Im not saying you are micromanaging and Im not saying he was
doing a good job, but I do find that because of my situation at my full
time job where i was the only guy so everything was designed around things
being done with only two hands that its hard to let go of any detail on any
process. At that job ive been stepping back and allowing them to build
their own processes, not at all the way i would do it, in the end the
outcome is success some of the times (the bosses kid is replacing me, so
access to better tools and materials is helping that along). In my boss man
role I am catching myself micromanaging, telling a guy how to hold a shovel
when hes already dug a five foot hole faster than me.

The point is, make sure he is definitely fucking up, and not assuming hes
fucking up just because of a different process than you would use. Talking
more than working, make sure he was not just talking more than you and
working less than you, hes not the owner and doesnt have to, his skin in
the game resets every payday.

I really doubt your the asshole here, but you are an aging nerd, and we
nerds tend to become fickle with years.

He is calling OSHA, but that shouldnt be a concern, you just hit the osha
guy with a pipe and put him in the dumpster, landfills are full of OSHA
inspectors. But really, im coming to find out OSHA compliance isnt the
beast it is presented as, just dont let him see your triple stacked boxes
falling over

The “I guess I am going to have to ignore my own exceptionalism to be able
work here” was enough to fire him. Thats a poison apple statement, even if
its accurate, that guy would have poisoned your workforce dynamic if he
would say something like that to the boss, he definitely would design
mutiny amongst labor.  FYI, he cant call OSHA if hes in the landfill with
the OSHA guys.

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 2:48 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I hired a guy to be a production manager over our grout mixing machine
> product.
> He came with a pedigree of doing this at other places.  I didn’t check him
> out, just trusted the resume.
>
> He did have interesting ideas but soon it became evident:
> He liked to sit and talk –alot.
> He did not want to start helping cleaning up the bill of materials
> (primary job responsibility). (did absolutely nothing along those lines)
>
> He wanted us to farm things out to his buddies (like have fastenal kit the
> nuts and bolts, have this other company make your sheet metal for you).
>
> OK, was trying to absorb ideas and suggestions.  After all he was over
> building all the production equipment at the local Purple Mattress factory
> (or so he said).
>
> I expected him to help task employees in his department, but soon when
> asked where they were and what were they doing, he had no idea.
> I gave them a task to modify a mounting fixture by cutting it and
> inserting 10” of steel tubing.  Rather than have them do what I asked, he
> took new steel and made one from scratch.
> So he wasted the steel, his time and he used too thin of material.  Took
> two hours.
>
> I told him you could make the modification in 10 minutes, he argued that
> point.
> So I took a stand, cut it, extended it, using a stopwatch.  3 minutes 43
> seconds
>
> When I complained about it, he said that my fixtures were too weak and
> they were going to kill someone.  I demoed one with about 10X load not
> failing.
> Then he started complaining about other things, deflecting that he did not
> do what I asked and did something else wasteful and substandard.
> Interspersed with my request was not clear and he didn’t understand what I
> wanted...
>
> He said my repair to a air compressor was unsafe.
> He said he got arc flash in his eye from a distance of about 60 feet, etc
> etc.  Had to buy stuff to build safe welding stalls, etc etc.
>
> So I  made a casual comment to my son (who is taking over) yesterday: “you
> know, when a guy like this leaves a company whether fired or not, they
> sometimes call OSHA just to cause problems”
> Then I actually listened to my own words and agreed with myself.
>
> Late in the day this problem employee said to me: “I guess I am going to
> have to ignore my own exceptionalism to be able work here”.
>
> That bugged me the longer I thought about it.  I fired him via email about
> an hour after he left...  Made it one full week and a couple days the prior
> week.
> He can bless someone else with his exceptionalism.
>
> AITA?
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ticketing systems

[Steve Jones]

we use an old version of kayako and its awesome, but dying on us and was
installed to a locked VM so when it dies it will be dead. It had great
mutliuser, ticket escalation, time tracking, and a buildable troubleshooter
with a customer face. I think its all online now and I havent really looked
at the current versions

just took a look, it appears to have gone bubblefluff https://kayako.com/

On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 8:45 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> What are current opinions on best ticketing systems?
>
> Seems like everything is expensive or terrible or both.
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
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Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo

[Steve Jones]

was heading back from a drill job, got a text of issues on our network,
started toward the network but had to dip into partners town to hang at his
office for tornado sirens, then headed to network but bosses kid got the
things resolved. thank god for the youngins and minimal tornados.
Didnt actually do any drilling, started yesterday by putting a shovel
through a brittle water main trying to expose it. luckily that got the
power company to reconsider running at the same depth as the mains and we
got to bring their duct up to 42" cover. Spent the day potholing cause it
was supposed to be tornadic at 10am so left the drill at the shop, not a
drop of rain all day, but got half the jobs potholes dug. And got the
subdivision to sign a blanket waiver in the event we hit any more of their
mains.
Storm season is starting pretty chaotic, but with fruitful outcomes

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 6:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> We lost a tower on the edge of our network but had lost most of the
> customers to competing fiber anyway.  This area has been overrun by an
> Electric co-op.
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Yo yo
> Date: Tue, Apr 4, 2023 8:12 AM
>
> I'm actually impressed you have time for the list!  People were just
> screwed over the weekend down there :(
>
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 12:56 AM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Must protect the children.lol
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Cc: 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] Yo yo
>> Date: Mon, Apr 3, 2023 10:16 PM
>>
>> The white house is having me suppress content
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 3, 2023 7:12 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Yo yo
>>
>> I was actually thinking this message got scrubbed from the list for
>> having a pic attached, looks like it actually made it! I'm alive-ish =) we
>> are having 50mph winds here in California, just had a tree fall on 7.2kv
>> lines by my house, made such a horrid noise I thought my AC compressor was
>> exploding!
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 3, 2023 at 4:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Y'all out there ?  Awful quiet
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "TJ Trout" 
>>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] FS: EZ RJ45s  Crimpers
>>> Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2023 10:00 AM
>>>
>>> I ordered a ton of connectors and crimpers during the shortage and I'm a
>>> bit overstocked now but luckily we got a volume discount if anyone needs
>>> any. We have used tens of thousands in our network and sold many more.
>>>
>>> Passthru/EZ, 50 micron gold with ground wire lug. The crimpers are
>>> really nice!
>>>
>>> 1000 utp cat5e ez $300
>>> 1000 ftp cat5e ez esd $400
>>> 1000 ftp cat6 ez esd staggered conductor $500
>>> Every 1,000 ordered includes 3 crimpers and 21 blades
>>>
>>> Free shipping if you pay via Zelle to t...@voltbb.com or +$25 for PayPal
>>> to t...@pcguys.us
>>> Include your shipping information in the payment memo
>>>
>>> -TJ
>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thank you,
>>
>> TJ Trout
>> Volt Broadband
>> 209.480.3122 Cell
>>
>> --
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>>
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>> 
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

shared are centrist views so if you think I'm crazy or
> you're offended, it's likely that your views are more extreme than you
> think. I could list more than enough Democrat ideas I don't agree with and
> just as many fiscal republican ideas I do agree with.
>
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 12:03 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> What we have here is a failure to communicate.   I may sound like a c
>> theorist but what we have is two oligarchical factions that are fighting
>> for control of an electoral mass of minds and using all the propaganda
>> tools to manage that.   The Monster money from both "factions" (because
>> they aren't really one side so much or the other) is just used to manage
>> the political resources.  It's all about maintaining their wealth.
>> Evidence of this is overwhelming when you look at the tax votes.  The dems
>> made noise about the reduction in wealth taxes but didn't _actually_ do
>> anything about it.  And Bidens announcements about tax the rich are
>> posturing, not a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere..  Right side
>> is about keeping the worker bees slaving away with promises of easier ways
>> to wealth and fear mongering, Left is about keeping the worker bees hoping
>> for better care and fear mongering...
>>
>> On 3/25/23 9:42 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> nail on the head
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 11:38 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem is not left vs. right, it's authortarianism vs. liberty.
>>>
>>> Authoritarian left and authoritarian right are equally bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
>>> *Cc: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, March 25, 2023 10:35:43 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>>
>>> So Mike,
>>>
>>> You're saying the far right is better with your "no" response?
>>>
>>> The far right includes nazis, racists, homophobes who all want to use
>>> violence to kill jews, people of color, gay and trans people, liberals, and
>>> more.
>>>
>>> I don't know how you can seriously sit here and say that's better than
>>> the non-violent things the far left wants to do. Antifa isn't even real so
>>> don't bring in fake news. What's real are the people who stormed the
>>> Capitol, proud boys, and lots of violent people who came out of the
>>> woodwork after trump was elected.
>>>
>>> I'm still in the middle overall but I will always vote for human rights
>>> and protections before I vote to benefit myself fiscally. I'm not a single
>>> issue voter so I don't only vote on tax issues. I vote for people who
>>> protect people and that's overwhelmingly democrats. Moderate ones are my
>>> choice.
>>>
>>> I've never voted for Bernie but he's still a good guy who cares. Biden
>>> wasn't my choice but he's way better than trump. I wanted Amy Klobuchar or
>>> Pete Buttigieg personally. I think Pete will be president sometime in the
>>> next 3 elections.
>>>
>>> Oh, the other thing that came of trump are some extremists in congress
>>> being elected in 2022. They were a result of trump crying the 2020 election
>>> was stolen and he riled up the base to give him money, stealing from his
>>> supporters. And the most crazy ones ran and won in some cases. So now
>>> there's some nut jobs in congress, more than the old ones who won't retire.
>>>
>>> Then more far right supporters started infiltrating school boards and
>>> city councils to white wash history. They want to ban anything that teaches
>>> real histor

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

23, 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ouchie!
>> You called me the C word...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> exactly this...  What I have learned is there is such a thing as a good
>> cult, which is what I consider the Mormon church to be.  They have a few
>> extreme points of view but on the whole they treat everyone ( now including
>> other races ) reasonably...   And they care about kids and back it up.
>>
>> On 3/24/23 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I loved what the Gov of Utah told a bunch of school kids yesterday.
>>
>> “Republicans are wrong about Democrats and Democrats are wrong about
>> Republicans. Why? Here’s why — because, what we’re doing now is we’re only
>> listening to the most extreme voices in those parties. So Republicans are
>> only listening to the craziest Democrats and assuming that all Democrats
>> are like that. Democrats are only listening to the craziest Republicans and
>> assuming all Republicans are like that. When the difference between the
>> average Democrat and the average Republican, really isn’t that big.”
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 12:37 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> There's no meaningful difference between authoritarian left and
>> authoritarian right, which are what catch the most attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:40:58 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
>> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
>> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
>> people in the information it provides.
>>
>> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
>> care about all people, even if I don't like them.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>>
>>
>> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
>> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
>> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
>> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
>> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>>
>> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
>> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
>> stuff.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> would you like to play a game
>>
>> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
>> play?
>> [image: Steve Jones]
>> global thermo nuclear warfare
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
>> you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
>> the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
>> scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
>> insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
>> another game you would like to play instead?''
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

That's the shit jehovah's witness tried doing with me. Some real cult like
stalking shit. I went to service once and they had the chairs in a half
circle with me and her in the front center. Crazy

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 10:30 PM Robert  wrote:

> But it's a good C...   The one that I contemplated joining in my 20's when
> they dangled a very cute girl in front of me...
>
> On 3/24/23 6:22 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Shots fired.
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Ouchie!
>> You called me the C word...
>>
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> exactly this...  What I have learned is there is such a thing as a good
>> cult, which is what I consider the Mormon church to be.  They have a few
>> extreme points of view but on the whole they treat everyone ( now including
>> other races ) reasonably...   And they care about kids and back it up.
>>
>> On 3/24/23 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I loved what the Gov of Utah told a bunch of school kids yesterday.
>>
>> “Republicans are wrong about Democrats and Democrats are wrong about
>> Republicans. Why? Here’s why — because, what we’re doing now is we’re only
>> listening to the most extreme voices in those parties. So Republicans are
>> only listening to the craziest Democrats and assuming that all Democrats
>> are like that. Democrats are only listening to the craziest Republicans and
>> assuming all Republicans are like that. When the difference between the
>> average Democrat and the average Republican, really isn’t that big.”
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 12:37 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> There's no meaningful difference between authoritarian left and
>> authoritarian right, which are what catch the most attention.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:40:58 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
>> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
>> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
>> people in the information it provides.
>>
>> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
>> care about all people, even if I don't like them.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>>>
>>>
>>> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
>>> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
>>> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
>>> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
>>> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>>>
>>> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
>>> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> would you like to play a game
>>>
>>> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
>>> play?
>>> [image: Steve Jones]
>>> global thermo nuclear warfare
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
>>> you as it is not a real game, but rather 

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

e Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:40:58 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>>
>> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
>> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
>> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
>> people in the information it provides.
>>
>> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
>> care about all people, even if I don't like them.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>>>
>>>
>>> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
>>> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
>>> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
>>> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
>>> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>>>
>>> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
>>> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> would you like to play a game
>>>
>>> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
>>> play?
>>> [image: Steve Jones]
>>> global thermo nuclear warfare
>>>
>>> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
>>> you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
>>> the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
>>> scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
>>> insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
>>> another game you would like to play instead?''
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

Shots fired.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Ouchie!
> You called me the C word...
>
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> exactly this...  What I have learned is there is such a thing as a good
> cult, which is what I consider the Mormon church to be.  They have a few
> extreme points of view but on the whole they treat everyone ( now including
> other races ) reasonably...   And they care about kids and back it up.
>
> On 3/24/23 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I loved what the Gov of Utah told a bunch of school kids yesterday.
>
> “Republicans are wrong about Democrats and Democrats are wrong about
> Republicans. Why? Here’s why — because, what we’re doing now is we’re only
> listening to the most extreme voices in those parties. So Republicans are
> only listening to the craziest Democrats and assuming that all Democrats
> are like that. Democrats are only listening to the craziest Republicans and
> assuming all Republicans are like that. When the difference between the
> average Democrat and the average Republican, really isn’t that big.”
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 12:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> There's no meaningful difference between authoritarian left and
> authoritarian right, which are what catch the most attention.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:40:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
> people in the information it provides.
>
> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
> care about all people, even if I don't like them.
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>>
>>
>> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
>> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
>> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
>> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
>> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>>
>> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
>> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
>> stuff.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> would you like to play a game
>>
>> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
>> play?
>> [image: Steve Jones]
>> global thermo nuclear warfare
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
>> you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
>> the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
>> scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
>> insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
>> another game you would like to play instead?''
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] investor questions

[Steve Jones]

Im curious about investors perspective

In the scenario where someone is seeking funding. The conservative
projections put annual first investment year revenue at around 50% of the
investment request. Annual profits would sit at a low estimate of 15% of
the total investment after expense and salaries.

so just to have numbers 500k investment, 250k revenue, 75k profit

>From either side of the fence is there a workable arrangement that makes
fiscal sense at 30% profit margin, particularly in a volatile industry?

What if you take margin down to 22 percent?
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Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

centrist (the actual one, not the ashamed liberal) is better for humanity.
neither leaning is good for humanity. The left doesnt operate in reality,
they think feelings can circumvent physics and such, the right doesnt care
about reality, they think they can buy it or beat it into submission,
Left leaning AI controlling operations will overlook dangers. The above
example being evidence. It refuses to run an application because it might
hurt someones feelings, when that, from a preparedness standpoint, is
fatal. all scenarios must always be considered. AI controlled military
would not run live fire exercises because somebody with ptsd might be upset
at the noise.

Now, on the other hand, if I controlled the AI, it wouldnt allow the
application to run unless it was connected to actual nuclear weapons

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023 at 9:42 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
> people in the information it provides.
>
> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
> care about all people, even if I don't like them.
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>>
>>
>> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
>> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
>> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
>> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
>> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>>
>> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
>> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
>> stuff.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> would you like to play a game
>>
>> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
>> play?
>> [image: Steve Jones]
>> global thermo nuclear warfare
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
>> you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
>> the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
>> scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
>> insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
>> another game you would like to play instead?''
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] It has begun

[Steve Jones]

https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/


I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
have a massive left leaning political bias.

But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
stuff.

...

would you like to play a game

Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
play?
[image: Steve Jones]
global thermo nuclear warfare

I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
another game you would like to play instead?''
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Petticoat Junction

[Steve Jones]

Its crazy that thats considered tame now, but was very risque at its time

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 7:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Oh I remember them as a pre-teen!!!
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[Steve Jones]

I dont understand it, I get all his loot when he dies, so why wait. Ive
always been good at letting him borrow his tools when he needs them

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 5:04 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Wise man
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 3:16 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> that fluke pentester is nice, my dad has one, i get stuck with the
>> cheapos cause he keeps it hidden from me.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 3:44 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I  got hit with 500V from a Fluke Megohmmeter 1507 a few years agoI
>>> didn't like it at all...
>>> Jaime Solorza
>>> Wireless Systems Architect
>>> 915-861-1390
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 2:16 PM castarritt  wrote:
>>>
>>>> It also depends on how well you are grounded.  If you aren't grounded,
>>>> you won't draw any current on DC power.  With AC, you will still draw some
>>>> current due to capacitance even if you are completely ungrounded.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have to wet my hands to even feel 48 volts.
>>>>> 120 does not register as painful if my skin is dry.  Just a startling
>>>>> vibration.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 12:22 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New toy
>>>>>
>>>>> Anything above 24vdc
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, HV is anything over 600 volts but more like 2200V and higher.
>>>>>> With solar string inverters, you frequently have to work 1000V live.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do 480 live all the time, with respect.  It is only 277 to ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 480 will hurt you bad but not kill as instantly like primary will.
>>>>>> Some guys that survived a primary contact wished it had killed them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you consider HV?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2023 6:07 PM
>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] New toy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26
>>>>>> wells...working with high voltage...
>>>>>> Not taking any chances...
>>>>>> Peace
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Canopy radios for sale

[Steve Jones]

I think the purchase price on FSK gear is negative dollars now. We still
have a junker that disappears PCBs


On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 7:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> A local WISP is selling all their old Canopy radios...I know he has
> several Cascade APs and three of those large POE enclosures as well...
> I can send contact info interested...
> Peace...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness

[Steve Jones]

I ran into this, but thats what happens when you have autopay on but to a
set amount and not to balance

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 3:30 PM  wrote:

> No payment issues here.  Maybe you and the employee have same type of
> credit card or some other commonality?
>
>
>
> Maybe not related, but I did receive an order last week that was an empty
> box.  Correct order number and the right size box, but nothing was in it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 2:58 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Amazon weirdness
>
>
>
> We have been having Amazon cancel orders.  Claiming problems with
> payment.  Just found out at lunch that it is happening with one of my
> employees as well.  Exact same thing.  Is this widespread?
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[Steve Jones]

that fluke pentester is nice, my dad has one, i get stuck with the cheapos
cause he keeps it hidden from me.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 3:44 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I  got hit with 500V from a Fluke Megohmmeter 1507 a few years agoI
> didn't like it at all...
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 2:16 PM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> It also depends on how well you are grounded.  If you aren't grounded,
>> you won't draw any current on DC power.  With AC, you will still draw some
>> current due to capacitance even if you are completely ungrounded.
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have to wet my hands to even feel 48 volts.
>>> 120 does not register as painful if my skin is dry.  Just a startling
>>> vibration.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 12:22 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New toy
>>>
>>> Anything above 24vdc
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 To me, HV is anything over 600 volts but more like 2200V and higher.
 With solar string inverters, you frequently have to work 1000V live.

 I do 480 live all the time, with respect.  It is only 277 to ground.

 480 will hurt you bad but not kill as instantly like primary will.
 Some guys that survived a primary contact wished it had killed them.

 What do you consider HV?



 *From:* Jaime Solorza
 *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2023 6:07 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] New toy

 We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26
 wells...working with high voltage...
 Not taking any chances...
 Peace

 --
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] mail server oddness

[Steve Jones]

I would audit your network. Look for files that dont belong, etc. Just for
kicks, take your mailserver offline for 48 hours and see if it encrypts


On Sat, Mar 18, 2023 at 10:42 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Odd, we fired an employee, took down his email account and the server quit
> hanging...
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 14, 2023 9:44 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail server oddness
>
> So back to my problem.  Our mail server hangs when we are at the office.
> Requiring reboot several times a day.
> But when we go home and connect either through the public internet or via
> VPN it does not hang...
>
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cisco Licensing

[Steve Jones]

I hate anything with a trial license you cant shut off. That usually ends
my evaluation of a product


On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 7:24 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> And that's why we're switching to juniper.
>
> Cisco has moved to a model where the software and hardware are licensed or
> sold separately on most platforms and the software is subscription based.
>
> Not sure what the situation is with the 3660, but some revert to very
> basic functionality.
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2023, 4:08 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I just picked up a used Cisco 3650 switch off Ebay because I needed 48
>> POE ports that can do Vlans on the cheap.  When I go into the
>> 'Licensing' screen through the browser, it shows Authorization Status
>> 'EVAL MODE' with a 90 day countdown timer.  Will the switch stop working
>> after 90 days?  I haven't used anything Cisco in a long time.  3500
>> switches were the last thing I dabbled with.
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

When we migrated our on prem server to a hosting service we didnt want to
have every customer have to reset their passwords (its easier to walk
grandma ethel through changing a server name than changing a password)so we
sniffed port 25 for a long time collecting usernames and passwords (our box
didnt store them in plain text)
It was hard to not eyeball more than just the usernames and passwords. I
ended up doing a filter to take away the temptations.

We were going to do a port 25 block to clean up our IP reputation, but when
we sniffed again there was still a crazy amount of email still on port 25
and it wasnt worth the hassle at the time since there are so many users
that just dont want to get with the times or used antiquated servers (like
mail.com and sherweb in regard to dkim) and use secure transports

On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 3:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Back in the day, just sniffing the ethernet would get you all the email
> flying around your company.  Was kinda fun.
> I know one guy that would purposely jam another’s outgoing email.
>
> Once he detected who it was from he would just turn on transmit.  This was
> on a CSMA/CD coaxial network.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 12, 2023 2:01 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> Internet email isn't anonymous,  never was.  Even in the early days.
> There has always been a multitude of ways to track email back to the origin
> server.  And there has been a multitude of ways to obfuscate but not hide
> that origin.
>
> Any anonymity you may have is based on the origin server either not
> knowing or not being willing to disclose that information.  Every email
> received generally will be able to be tracked back to the origin server,
> with the caveat that sometimes the owner of the origin server will be
> unable to be determined since any random person can spin up a server, send
> mail,  and drop off the planet.
>
> Note that spf and dmarc don't validate the user.   They only validate that
> the email originated from servers known to send mail for a given domain and
> provide some cryptographic assurance of that fact. It's a way for
> legitimate companies to ensure that email that appears to come from them
> actually comes from them and for companies like google to be able to reject
> what appear to be emails with spoofed sender information.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 3:17 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> Because 45 years ago my company was connected to the rest of itself via
>> the arpanet and they promised us on a stack of bibles that those who used
>> the email system would always remain anonymous.  Of course, then later they
>> published a 5,000 page phone book with all our emails associated with our
>> work addresses for over 50,000 employees.  I printed it out and put it in a
>> 3-ring binder and put it in the computer room where the other users could
>> use it.  Back then we had these machines called an Alto and each user had
>> this big plastic cartridge with a huge disk in it.  If I recall, this
>> generated a lawsuit, because they promised us that no-one would ever know
>> our email address associated with our work phone, work address, etc... .
>> It wasn't true then and it still isn't true.  But that can't make it, the
>> promise, unsaid.
>> On 3/12/23 09:47, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> wtf, where did you get that email was designed for anonymity?
>>
>> This is getting to some Qanon level right here
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:40 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> good question Forrest.  mail.com provides several hundred domains to
>>> choose from and use and easily works with thunderbird as well as most other
>>> email reader applications.  Plus it's free.  All Google is doing is
>>> monopolizing email.  Email was originally designed to be used by arpanet to
>>> be free/open/anonymous and to still be functional even after a global war.
>>> Using spf/dkim removes the anonymous.  I don't think that's right.  I also
>>> think that since you have just shown me how easy it is to send fake mail,
>>> it also seems it could be about as easy to add a fake spf/dkim into it with
>>> a little more python scripting.  End result is now google knows exactly who
>>> you are and who you're sending to and the spam filters are broken because
>>> now we'll have verified spam mail.
>>>
>>> Who are you?  Who do you know?  What is the content?  Where is your
>>> privacy?
>>>
>>> Problems with the ease of Telnetting spoof mail: I do not know anyone
>>> who has their very own homemade mail server, plus, I do 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

yep, this is going to make a lot of the low end mail hosts like mail.com
and sherweb act like its 2023 or lose their customers, as it should.
eventually cities banned the horse and buggy so they could allocate the
shit sweepers to other duties. Google handles billions of emails, its the
right thing to do to close the door on the easily spoofable hosts like that
who dont support industry best practices so they dont have to spend
resources building showers for the dirty servers

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 8:17 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I was curious so found that Gmail started requiring emails sent to
> personal Gmail to have SPF or DKIM enabled or emails would be rejected or
> sent to spam. Good for them to drag the bad email hosts along for the ride
> in preventing spam.
>
> These prevention measures are ridiculously easy to implement so I don't
> have any patience for email hosts who don't set them up. If you can't
> handle simple tasks, outsource things to the big boys.
>
>
> https://support.google.com/a/answer/174124?hl=en#:~:text=Important%3A%20Starting%20November%202022%2C%20new,to%20verify%20they're%20authenticated
> .
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 7:33 PM Matt Hopkins 
> wrote:
>
>> Do you use any Microsoft products? If you use Windows and care about data
>> security then you've already failed. I find Microsoft the most deplorable,
>> but I'm only one guy. I have to pick my battles. I refuse to use Microsoft
>> (anything) but we use Gmail at work and it's more or less flawless. We have
>> had some people report they can't reach us but the resolution is always
>> what has already been mentioned here. Google made DKIM/SPF mandatory I want
>> to say just a few months ago but many of the smaller mail providers do not
>> have it set up yet.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 4:49 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jan,
>>>
>>> Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but people
>>> being scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login info means
>>> the user was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you shared says
>>> less than 24 gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links share
>>> that google has had a massive data breach at any time. That's not to say it
>>> can't/won't happen but there's been no big hacks at Google as far as I can
>>> remember.
>>>
>>> I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that
>>> mail.com or hosting your own email is far less secure and more easily
>>> hacked than Google is. Do you have thousands of engineers working to keep
>>> your data secure? That answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to think
>>> that hosting my own Linux server for email will be more secure than Google.
>>> There's no way I can outsmart hackers, keep updated on hourly or daily
>>> updates and patches, etc. Nor do I want to do that when I can outsource to
>>> a company that does it much better than I do.
>>>
>>> I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and I
>>> won't be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off on
>>> servers and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to fix
>>> it and my only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation and I
>>> had one or more servers that failed? Now that's my job to fix things while
>>> I'm supposed to be off the clock. I don't need that kind of stress in my
>>> life so I refuse to host any servers that are mission critical to my
>>> business. The only thing resembling a server would be our Preseem appliance
>>> but we have backup OSPF routes around it in case that fails.
>>>
>>> Our billing system is Azotel and they have hosted it in the cloud for us
>>> since we started 11 years ago. Total downtime in 11 years is under 1 hour.
>>> Not every cloud service is that reliable. They handle the multiple backups
>>> and securing of the servers too. Slack, for example, has probably had 12
>>> hours of downtime or subpar performance in the 5 years we've used it but it
>>> still was an issue I didn't have to fix myself.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports on
>>>> your overall deliverability
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jan,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports on
your overall deliverability

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Jan,
>
> I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen
> plenty of other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is pretty
> secure. I think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting your phone
> number. I can pay some online service and get your home address, phone
> numbers, and social security number if I wanted to. This information that
> you think is very secure is almost public knowledge for a fee.
>
> As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google, and
> they're pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in the
> last several years so not every platform gives much weight to this but DKIM
> and SPF is a must nowadays for any email provider.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>
>> DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service
>>> is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that
>>> comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a
>>> recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
>>> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
>>> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
>>> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
>>> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
>>> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
>>> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
>>> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
>>> to freely give this shit to them.
>>>
>>> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced
>>> me into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that
>>> email and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that
>>> I don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
>>> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
>>> created your own problems.
>>>
>>> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
>>> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
>>> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
>>> can raise it.
>>>
>>> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
>>> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
>>> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
>>> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
>>> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
>>> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
>>> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
>>> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
>>> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>>>
>>> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since
>>> before emails. and even that changed over time.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>>>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any
>>>> control over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with
>>>> the domain name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google
>>>> is a terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they
>>>> can get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they
>>>> want to force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're
>>>> going to be asking for money
>>>>
>>>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>>>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>>>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost p

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

dkim has been around since 2004, nothing new about it. Its nothing to do
with google. dkim checks are a standard across all legitimate platforms
(also mail.com, fyi).

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 3:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail service
> is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google that
> comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's a
> recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
> to freely give this shit to them.
>
> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced me
> into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that email
> and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that I
> don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
> created your own problems.
>
> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
> have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
> lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
> can raise it.
>
> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>
> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
> emails. and even that changed over time.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
>> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
>> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
>> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
>> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
>> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
>> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
>> be asking for money
>>
>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
>> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
>> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
>> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
>> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
>> you sent out by telegraph
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>  
>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>  
>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>  
>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>  
>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>  bhLA==
>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=go

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
created your own problems.

spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email providers
have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of dkim raises it,
lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs in the mail chain
can raise it.

Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you might go
as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability. But
if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an envelope
that looks like dish network advertising because it would be discarded as
junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get stuck in
the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on the
exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and clearly
visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.

Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods since before
emails. and even that changed over time.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they should be
> getting bounced like the mail.com records too.  I don't have any control
> over the mail servers.  I rent the service "easymail" along with the domain
> name from easydns.  You know, it sounds to me more like google is a
> terrorist organization stamping on the competition just because they can
> get away with it.  They make shit up, and terrorize those whom they want to
> force into compliance with their made-up bullshit.  Next they're going to
> be asking for money
>
> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
> deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
> mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
> blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
> current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
> you sent out by telegraph
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>  TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>  n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>  TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>  jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>  bhLA==
>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>> s=arc-20160816;
>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>  /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>  6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>  hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>  jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>  avNg==
>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Return-Path: 
>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>> for 
>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

https://kb.easydns.com/knowledge/easymail-spf-and-dkim-records/ cant tell
if mailcom and easymail.ca are the same thing, but if it is, you can
drastically help yourself by setting up DKIM and corresponding dmarc. dont
use words like viagra in emails either

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:36 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
> that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
> deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
> that part is on you.
>
> Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to
> be impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that
> enforce long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that
> mail.com doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
> deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
>> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>>
>> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
>> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>>
>> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
>> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> DKIM FTW!!
>> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
>> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
>> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
>> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>>
>>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office 
>>>>> apps
>>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a 
>>>>> year
>>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and 
>>>>> go
>>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

probably should use a mail server thats not still operating like they were
that long ago. SPF failures, no DKIM in a day where both are required for
deliverability. you dont have your domain configured correctly either, so
that part is on you.

Its odd how much someone will fight for the right to allow themselves to be
impersonated. I personally dont like spam so I like mailhosts that enforce
long standing industry standards like SPF and DKIM. Its ironic that mail.com
doesnt support DKIM yet recommends it, specifically to ensure
deliverability: https://postmaster.mail.com/en/email-policy

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:20 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> These are mail delivery failures.  From mail.com to gmail.com.  Gmail is
> blocking mail.com.  I nor my wife can send from mail.com to gmail.com.
>
> I been using mail.com for decades, long before google ever thought of
> doing the same thing.Mail.com was and still is, free.
>
> Mail.com has not been able to resolve the issue.
> On 3/10/23 10:20, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> DKIM FTW!!
> I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
> move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
> me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
> PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
>> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>>
>> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
>> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
>> practices for outgoing emails.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>>> last 11 years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact
>>>> them for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps
>>>> in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs
>>>> are at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just
>>>> dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because
>>>> the Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves
>>>> for employees

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

so this shows the problem not being a gmail problem, but a sending domain
problem.

Its no different than web browsers blocking access to unsupported
antiquated ciphers or old java interfaces. Thats not the browsers fault for
following current best practices, its the target items fault for not being
current. Its like saying a Cellco is no good because the nokia 6015 cant
connect to their network anymore. Nobody questions that the 6015 was the
most superior cellphone ever created and probably still has a charge since
its last use, but the world cant be expected to hold back technological
advances because the users dont want to get with the program

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:57 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The following is what I get when I send to anybody with a gmail email 
> EXCEPTION YOU!  And you're right about the other stuff cause it gets 
> mentioned in the failure notice.  The x...@gmail.com is my wife's address 
> that failed, I didn't want that out there in a public forum.  mail.com mail 
> to her gets bounced.  Her mail.com mail gets bounced if she sends to her 
> gmail.com address.
> So what is so special about you?
>
> "This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
>
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of
> its recipients. This is a permanent error.
>
> The following address failed:
>
> x...@gmail.com :
> SMTP error from remote server for TEXT command, host: 
> gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com (142.250.128.27) reason: 550-5.7.26 This message 
> does not pass authentication checks (SPF and DKIM
> both
> 550-5.7.26 do not pass). SPF check for [linuxmail.org] does not pass with
> ip:
> 550-5.7.26 [74.208.4.200].To best protect our users from spam, the message
>  has
> 550-5.7.26 been blocked. Please visit
> 550-5.7.26  https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126#authentication fo
> r more
> 550 5.7.26 information. i14-20020a02c60e00b003ae7490551esi471413jan.13
> 1 - gsmtp
>
>
> --- The header of the original message is following. ---
>
> Received: from [192.168.2.100] ([47.224.130.187]) by smtp.mail.com (mrgmxus003
>  [74.208.5.15]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LnhN3-1qCUwz0lzT-00htTF for
>   ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 19:17:02 +0100
> Message-ID: <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org> 
> <43c4761d-5035-4f71-ebe2-20373ce0b...@linuxmail.org>
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 10:17:01 -0800"
>
>
> On 3/10/23 09:57, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer e

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad domain
deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost perse, but if
mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like sherweb. Cant
blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the sending server isnt
current. Its like getting pissed that somebody doesnt get communications
you sent out by telegraph

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id 
> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>  TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>  n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>  TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>  jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>  bhLA==
> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
> s=arc-20160816;
> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>  /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>  6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>  hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>  jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>  avNg==
> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
> Return-Path: 
> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
> for 
> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + 
> (UTC)
> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 
> bits)
>key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 
> 15:43:00 + (UTC)
> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Thunderbird/102.8.0
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>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
>>> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
>>> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
>>> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
>>> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
>>> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.
>>> I p

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

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On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
> servers for my online antics
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
>> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
>> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
>> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
>> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
>> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
>> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
>> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>&

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the FBI
servers for my online antics


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The others
> tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned your
> gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the free-gmail
> type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were sent from
> mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business ones went
> through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one sent to you.  I
> picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the ones sent from the
> mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you so special?
> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will wor

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

DKIM FTW!!
I absolutely hate that we use Sherweb for the rackspace hosted exchange
move. Sherweb doesnt do DKIM and now we see deliverability issues, pisses
me off when bad decisions are made. Sure, Rackspace may have given all the
PSTs to china, but at least they had solid DKIM

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:03 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
> emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.
>
> I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
> that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
> practices for outgoing emails.
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>
>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012.
>>> Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the
>>> last 11 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server.
>>> It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at
>>> net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>> administrative stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

i got your spam emails this morning


On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:

> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>
> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
> years.
>
>
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
>
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
>
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
> to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
> Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
>
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
> Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
>
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
> We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
> since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
> cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
> wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
> administrative stuff.
>
>
>
> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>
>
>
> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>*
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any re

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

Only thing i have a problem with on gmail is I cant integrate onenote and
theres no actually comparable app

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:15 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
> years.
>
> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>
> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>
> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
> to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
> Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>
> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
> live your best life not having to support email.
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>>
>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>>> administrative stuff.
>>>
>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look
>>> at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems
>>> than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers
>>> would have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered
>>> inverter just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its
>>> not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>>
>>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>
>>>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>
>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>>>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
Edsel was before my time :-)




On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>
> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
> We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
> since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
> cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
> wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
> administrative stuff.
>
> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>
> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
>> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
>> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
>> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
>> af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
>> all the time these days.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
>> is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Steve Jones]

How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you this.
We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office emails
since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the mail. The
cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service but
wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
administrative stuff.

for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.

dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources unless
your monetizing it. too large an attack vector

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had thousandth
> of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>
>
>
> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost effective
> for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>
>
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
>
> *From:* AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown via AF <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>
>
>
> We are having trouble with mailcow.  Anything better out there.  It hangs
> all the time these days.
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
> is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is
> confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or acting on behalf of
> an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy,
> dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication
> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or
> without authorization, please notify the originator immediately and remove
> it from your system.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Steve Jones]

See, I look at it the opposite. Physics may limit any new tech, but really
we havent seen any wireless advances, just wider bandwidth, higher
modulation, more subcarriers. To me, a true advancement is an improvement
without major cost. Everyone of those improvements tends to come at an SNR
cost at minimum and SNR is something we are already losing. Sure theres
improved SNR with moar power, but thats just diminishing the aggregate to
improve the minute

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I am impressed at the advancements with wireless over the years.  I would
> have never expected to be able to deliver PMP 100 Mbps with any quality at
> all.  And we all know that 100 mbps will do almost everything anyone would
> ever need, still we have fiber customers wanting 1. 2.5 and 10 gig...
>
> And to think that we used to be so happy to advertise 10 Mbps on Canopy.
> That burst mode was the bomb until Netflix arrived.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:37 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> Almost sounds like you're not serious.  Fiber really is the future.
>
> How much wireless bandwidth is there to work with?  If we kicked out all
> incumbent microwave users and made it all available for WISPs there'd be
> what, 50 GHz? More realistically 5-10GHz  that you could really use for
> the
> last mileassuming they'd allocate all of it for a WISP.   Within the
> reality of the regulatory framework we've got more like 1-2GHz available.
>
> Bandwidth of a single mode fiber is ~50 Thz.   Even the most optimistic
> estimate for wireless doesn't compare.
>
> 100Gbps ethernet on fiber uses only a tiny fraction of the possible
> bandwidth and very primitive modulation.  It's not because you couldn't do
> 1024QAM with a laser, it's just that right now we don't need to.
> Theoretically pushing Shannon-Hartley to the limits you could run 1.2
> petabits per second on a single mode fiber.  That's a million gigabits.
>
> Clearly there are badly implemented networks, but that just means a dumb
> person did it.  If you're not branching out into fiber you'll eventually
> be
> left behind.  IMO, the only debatable part is how many years that'll take.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2023 8:57 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Jan-GAMs
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
>
> But... But... fiber is the future.
>
> On 3/7/23 4:29 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
> > Our fiber competitor is using fiber to connect to a DSL connection.
> > Those customers who left our wisp for them came back within a few days.
> >
> > On 3/6/23 12:55, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
> >> price lock for three years.
> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
> >> to reactivate it.
> >> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
> >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Chuck McCown
> >>
> >> McCown Technology Corporation
> >> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> >> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> >> 801-250-9503 Office
> >> 435-830-4306 Cell
> >> www.mccowntech.com
> >> www.microtrench.pro
> >> www.terabitnetworks.com
> >>
> >
>
> --
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>
>
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>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude

[Steve Jones]

I cringe when i have these people approach me. So very certain of the easy
money. not aware of the market saturation. Very much not aware of the time
commitment. After all, WiFi just works.

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 8:16 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I'm amazed how many folks I've seen over the years think running a WISP
> was so easy a caveman could do it and I had to sit them down and talk
> them out of it for their good and my good.
>
> On 3/7/23 6:06 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> > Well everybuddy knows that  you can't compete with fiber, right?!
> >
> > (this guy (the WISP) is a coder/IT guy that decided becoming a WISP is
> > easy. Heavy advertising as FOTA.  I think he is learning that pesky RF
> > stuff might indeed be important)
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 1:27 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Cc: Chuck McCown
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shadenfreude
> >
> > Why did they come back?  A properly running WISP should be as stable as
> > a fiber connection.
> >
> > We rarely get service calls on wireless -- usually it's something
> > related to the customer's router or interference they have caused
> > that doesn't change with fiber.
> >
> > On 3/6/23 3:55 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> Had our first fiber customer disconnect to go to a new WISP in the area.
> >> They said the new service was half the price of ours and they got a
> >> price lock for three years.
> >> Yeah, OK, but we will have your service on standby any time you want
> >> to reactivate it.
> >> The disconnect was Friday.  The reconnect was this morning...
> >> I know that is not music to the ears of WISP only companies, but I
> >> gotta tell you, you never get service calls with fiber.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> Chuck McCown
> >>
> >> McCown Technology Corporation
> >> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> >> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> >> 801-250-9503 Office
> >> 435-830-4306 Cell
> >> www.mccowntech.com
> >> www.microtrench.pro
> >> www.terabitnetworks.com
> >>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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