from:"Michael Smith"

Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7

2017-09-21 Thread Michael Smith

Same from me. Thank you, Carol!   Thanks to all the experienced folks who
helped me out since I started working with ungulates in 2008. My heard is
happy and healthy, and continues to thrive. Special thanks to the
Wintermutes, and Cecil Beardon, who also conversed quite a bit with me
offline and helped with some crucial details.

See you all online!

-Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 6:15 PM, Erik Christy <echri...@peak.org> wrote:

> Dear Carol:
> I'm sure I join the rest of the list
> membership in sincerely thanking you for having both begun as well as
> having tirelessly and productively having maintained this most beneficial
> list for all blackbelly sheep lovers. Your encouragement and good
> information helped many of us get a good start with this magnificent
> animal, as well as provided us all with an excellent shared medium for
> discussion and mutual assistance.
> While the list will no longer be up, I'm sure our associations made on the
> list will continue.
> Thanks very much, again, Carol.
> Sincerely,
> Erik Christy, Oregon
>
>
> > On Sep 20, 2017, at 5:43 PM, blackbelly-request@lists.
> blackbellysheep.info wrote:
> >
> > Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Times change and it is time to close the Listserv (Carol Elkins)
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:19:49 -0600
> > From: Carol Elkins <celk...@critterhaven.biz>
> > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> > Subject: [Blackbelly] Times change and it is time to close the
> >Listserv
> > Message-ID:
> > i...@lists.blackbellysheep.info>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > Dear Listserv members,
> >
> > The Blackbelly Listserv was first created in 2001, and it has served
> > a vital role in helping stabilize both the Barbados Blackbelly and
> > American Blackbelly sheep breeds. It has provided a meeting place for
> > a friendly community of breeders to discuss problems, answer
> > questions, and generally provide support to each other.
> >
> > Messages have decreased considerably during the last two years,
> > largely due to newer social media tools such as Facebook that can
> > better serve member needs. This is as it should be---after all, this
> > Listserv was born because in 2001 the only resource available to
> > breeders was a clunky bulletin board.
> >
> > It is time to move on, so I will be shutting the Blackbelly Listserv
> > down on October 1, 2017. You will always be able to search the
> > group's archives at
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info/
> >
> > It has been a privilege working with the oldtimers who have
> > contributed their time by responding to list messages and the newbies
> > who were courageous enough to ask questions. It has been a joy
> > working with such a great group of friendly and helpful people. We
> > have never had a serious disagreement; no one has ever been flamed or
> > gotten out of line. What a great group of people you are!
> >
> > So my heartfelt thank you to each of the 265 current members in this
> > list. I wish you continued success with your blackbelly sheep. There
> > is no more beautiful sheep in this world than a blackbelly
> > sheep--regardless of which blackbelly breed it is.
> >
> > Carol Elkins
> > List owner
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > End of Blackbelly Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7
> > *
> >
>
>
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[Blackbelly] Lambs 2017

2017-03-08 Thread Michael Smith

I guess I spoke too soon!  This morning, our LGD was making a fuss, and I
saw this when I went out to feed the ewes.  More to come.

https://youtu.be/FPmvk7VMczQ

Lets' see some lamb pics on the list, please.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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[Blackbelly] Ewe lamb possibly not fed yet?

2017-03-08 Thread Michael Smith

Everyone, hope things are going well. My Ewe lamb that was born a bit more
than 24 hours ago appears not to have fed yet, as of this morning.  the mom
is experienced, but she is my spookiest sheep I own. She seems a bit
restless. She takes ownership of the lamb, but has a hard time staying
still for her. She is with her favorite ewe companion, and can see her
favorite LGD through the fence, so her surroundings should be good.

I corralled the mom and checked this morning, and she feels bagged up, but
I did not try to milk her. The lamb seems in good spirits. Occasionally
trying to poke around and look for a nipple, but not very persistent. the
lamb has passed meconium.  It lies down, naps and appears not to be
shivering in the 40*F morning we had. Otherwise, following mom and acting
like a lamb. It;'s plenty big, I estimate 7-8 lbs.

I set up a camera with video for about 10 minutes last night and walked
away, and there was no feeding, after I left them alone. I thought my
presence was effecting things, but even when gone, they did not feed.

So, remind me: the lamb can go for at least 24 hours without feeding,
right?  If I don't see improvement this evening I am going to at least
corner them together with a sheet of wood, so mom cannot get away, and give
the little girl a better chance. I also might try to milk her to make sure
she's producing.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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[Blackbelly] Lambing 2017

2017-03-07 Thread Michael Smith

here's my three girls, all protected in their nice paddock, and due any
time, starting later this week

picture:
https://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/Lambs-2017/

and video:
https://youtu.be/TSwLRi7jYn8

Please pray for beautiful ewe lambs for me. I have plenty of handsome rams!

And... in other news, my late, great ram Marley (who died of Coryne)
the one with the great, wide rack,

https://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/Rams2013/i-8BqBz6L/A

is finally going to be European-mounted after wasting his time at a flake
taxidermist for 2 1/2  years. The new taxidermist should have him done by
summer.

shortly after that picture was taken, he snapped off a good 6" of tip, but
I magically happened to find it, and kept it for just such an occasion.

Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] fighting rams

2016-06-24 Thread Michael Smith

oh, I give them their fave food and just dump it on the other side of the
fence, then drop in a yardstick as they nosh. While the stick might spook
them a bit, they get over it and prefer food over a scary foreign object.
This is with one of my more tame rams, though.

To answer Tiana's question: from what state does your stock come from? Are
you American Blackbelly, or Barbados Blackbelly?
In California, the AB sheep (I have never seen a BB ram) have typically
been exposed to some standard 300 lb wool sheep and painted desert sheep
with good, curly horns, back in their ancestry.  My flock is not a large
quantity, only 15 sheep, and only half have good markings that would be
called conforming. My breeding is for coat -markings, not size, since
everyone is basically the same. Also, I don't sell or eat mine, so it's my
own personal project, which is why I am not concerned about carcass weight.

my ewes are generally a bit lighter in weight than the rams, but have the
same overall appearance. The few wethered rams I have look just like the
ewes (including the smaller heads--compared to horned rams) and are maybe
2-3" taller at the shoulder

also, the pictures are taken in the late summer, when the grass is at it's
dryest. I find it bloats their rumens quite a bit, compared to wet grass in
the winter/spring. So, in the winter, they get all muscular and a layer of
fat on their ribs, but their stomachs appear flatter on the sides. In the
summer, I have to fight to provide better nutrients and they can get a bit
ribby, but their stomachs look much bigger, all day long, giving them a
"big" appearance.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Rick Krach  wrote:

> Michael, I'll put a picture of my ram on the Blackbelly FB page or email
> it to you after I take some today.  I, actually measuring him would be a
> joke since I cannot really, safely catch him.
>
>
> Rick Krach
> in Auburn, CA
>
>
> 
> > From: mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
> > Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:32:19 -0700
> > To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> > Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] fighting rams
> >
> > Rick, I measured one of the rams in that video at 29" at the shoulder
> > (subtracting the hair on his shoulders--so it;s a true measurement)
> >
> > how big are your non-crossed rams?
> >
> > -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Rick Krach 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Wow, this was a really great video. Now that you show it again, I
> remember the original, but I didn't remember how LARGE all three rams were.
> What in the world do you do to get such big sheep? My American Blackbellies
> are much thinner, so that I cross them with Dorpers to get larger lambs!
> >>
> >> Rick Krach
> >> in Auburn, CA
>
>
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Re: [Blackbelly] fighting rams

2016-06-24 Thread Michael Smith

Rick, I did not measure around the belly of the ram, I measured the
height of his shoulder from the ground. About 29" minus the tuft of
hair.  that measurement is a bit easier to get. The picture of the
darker brown ram you sent to me privately looks on par with my rams,
mine sometimes look fatter because of the graze they eat.

-Michael. Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 9:23 AM, Rick Krach  wrote:
> Michael, I'll put a picture of my ram on the Blackbelly FB page or email it 
> to you after I take some today.  I, actually measuring him would be a joke 
> since I cannot really, safely catch him.
>
>
> Rick Krach
> in Auburn, CA
>
>
> 
>> From: mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2016 19:32:19 -0700
>> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
>> Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] fighting rams
>>
>> Rick, I measured one of the rams in that video at 29" at the shoulder
>> (subtracting the hair on his shoulders--so it;s a true measurement)
>>
>> how big are your non-crossed rams?
>>
>> -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Rick Krach  wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow, this was a really great video. Now that you show it again, I remember 
>>> the original, but I didn't remember how LARGE all three rams were. What in 
>>> the world do you do to get such big sheep? My American Blackbellies are 
>>> much thinner, so that I cross them with Dorpers to get larger lambs!
>>>
>>> Rick Krach
>>> in Auburn, CA
>
>
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Re: [Blackbelly] fighting rams

2016-06-22 Thread Michael Smith

Rick, I measured one of the rams in that video at 29" at the shoulder
(subtracting the hair on his shoulders--so it;s a true measurement)

how big are your non-crossed rams?

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Rick Krach <rickkr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, this was a really great video.  Now that you show it again, I remember 
> the original, but I didn't remember how LARGE all three rams were.  What in 
> the world do you do to get such big sheep?  My American Blackbellies are much 
> thinner, so that I cross them with Dorpers to get larger lambs!
>
> Rick Krach
> in Auburn, CA
>
>
>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 14:06:06 -0700
>> From: Michael Smith
>> To: blackbelly
>> Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] need photo of horned rams fighting
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> no lambs this year--so not much news, but so far I seem to have treated the
>> couple of sheep that were real thin and might have been suffering from
>> Coryne, using gobs of penicillin ( my local vets recommendation).
>>
>> here's a movie that might have some frames you can grab that are decent. I
>> might have the master movie at work, could try to get a cleaner version of
>> a frame or two, there
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnAw_zVofm8
>>
>> -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
>>
>
>
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[Blackbelly] Fwd: need photo of horned rams fighting

2016-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

-- Forwarded message --
From: Michael Smith <mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] need photo of horned rams fighting
To: blackbelly <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info>


yeah, I know it is. I posted that a coupla years ago, where we
discussed the blow-by-blow in detail :-)  I felt pretty privileged to
capture something like that, and with some good light as well. (later
in the movie, at least)

Good news, I found the original. I can copy off some very high quality
mid-air stills if you tell me the approximate time you need them from.
They will be higher resolution than your screen-grab.

here's an example

http://mwsmotorsports.com/personal/Uvas/HarpoZiggyBattle01_2014.pct

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 9:45 AM, Carol Elkins <celk...@critterhaven.biz> wrote:
>
> Wow, Michael. This video is hard to watch! I'll try to do a screen capture of 
> the frame where they are hitting in mid-air.
>
> Carol
>
> At 03:06 PM 6/19/2016, you wrote:
>>
>> no lambs this year--so not much news, but so far I seem to have treated the 
>> couple of sheep that were real thin and might have been suffering from 
>> Coryne, using gobs of penicillin ( my local vets recommendation). here's a 
>> movie that might have some frames you can grab that are decent. I might have 
>> the master movie at work, could try to get a cleaner version of a frame or 
>> two, there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnAw_zVofm8 -Michael, Perino 
>> Ranch Blackbellies On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Carol Elkins 
>> <celk...@critterhaven.biz> wrote: > Can anyone give me a photo of two 
>> American Blackbelly rams head-butting? I > need it to illustrate an article 
>> in the July newsletter for the BBSAI. > Photo will be fully credited to 
>> owner. > > Thanks! > > Carol > > (Geesh, this list has been so quiet lately. 
>> Are Cecil and I the only ones > who have sheep any longer?) > > Carol Elkins 
>> > Critterhaven > Pueblo, CO > http://www.critterhaven.biz > 
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>> %http://www.blackbellysheep.info 
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>
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Re: [Blackbelly] need photo of horned rams fighting

2016-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

no lambs this year--so not much news, but so far I seem to have treated the
couple of sheep that were real thin and might have been suffering from
Coryne, using gobs of penicillin ( my local vets recommendation).

here's a movie that might have some frames you can grab that are decent. I
might have the master movie at work, could try to get a cleaner version of
a frame or two, there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnAw_zVofm8

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:44 AM, Carol Elkins 
wrote:

> Can anyone give me a photo of two American Blackbelly rams head-butting? I
> need it to illustrate an article in the July newsletter for the BBSAI.
> Photo will be fully credited to owner.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Carol
>
> (Geesh, this list has been so quiet lately. Are Cecil and I the only ones
> who have sheep any longer?)
>
> Carol Elkins
> Critterhaven
> Pueblo, CO
> http://www.critterhaven.biz
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[Blackbelly] Bummers and scours

2016-03-02 Thread Michael Smith

> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800
> From: Lee Ann <evarojoe...@yahoo.com>
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
> Message-ID: <2f386837-4328-4722-a0a8-d93104aea...@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
>
> My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics,
and also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?
>
> Sent from my iPad


What time intervals are you feeding them?  And how much are they allowed to
eat? I have only raised 1 bottle goat and maybe 6 or 7 bottle lambs over a
few breeding seasons, but in my case, they all got "scours", because I was
following bad advice from a local breeder I knew. I was feeding them the
right amount per day in weight, but, not dividing it up in the middle
of the night. I got to sleep fine, but they had diarrhea because I fed them
far too much at each feeding.  Once I set a timer to get up at 2am and do
my duty, and they ate less each feeding, (but the same overall amount each
day) it cleared right up.

I was freaking out, giving them Corrid, anti-worm medication, and
probiotics, etc, and had no idea I should just divide it up more.

-Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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Re: [Blackbelly] Help

2016-03-01 Thread Michael Smith

Lee Ann. One question. How often are you feeding them? And are you feeding them 
at night as well? I'm not very experienced raising lambs but I've had a few 
rounds of bottle babies, and they always had diarrhea because I was told by a 
local breeder that I could just stuff them full of formula a few times a day 
and not feed them at night. So I did. Soon as I started feeding them  less per 
meal and more meals...and during the night... the diarrhea went away.

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 1, 2016, at 6:47 AM, Elizabeth Radi  wrote:
> 
> what are you using for formula?  
> If the scours are a greenish tinge, have them checked for coccidiosis.
> I don't buy the powdered formula.  If you alter the formula ratio to water, 
> you change the osmolality of the milk and could lead to scours.  I fed mine 
> whole milk from the grocery store. They did great on that.  No mixing worries 
> either.  Just my experience from the University of life. 
> 
> Liz Radi
> Nubian goats 
> Nunn, Colorado
> 
> 
> --- evarojoe...@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> From: Lee Ann 
> To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
> Subject: [Blackbelly] Help
> Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:29:05 -0800
> 
> My two bummers have the scours, I have tried electrolytes and probiotics, and 
> also watered down the formula? They are 13 days old?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Blackbelly] good Craigslist ad to use as a model

2015-10-11 Thread Michael Smith

That is a great ad, and only about an hour north of me. Healdsburg is right 
outside California's gourmet-ordinated Napa Valley wine country. One thing, 
though, about the price. You can ask whatever you want, but the market will 
tell you what they are worth. Perhaps this informed breeder can ask that much 
because they do have well trained chefs locally. If they are on this list, it 
could be great if they introduce themselves. If they are not, I might email 
them and let them know about it. They would be a great addition our knowledge 
pool.

In Northern California, where this market is, years ago, I bought my two best 
ewes and one ram, from a breeder in Vacaville that sold them to me for $40 a 
head. I knew a good deal when I had it and grabbed the best 3 I saw and got out 
of there before they changed their mind :-). They put out the best-looking AB 
lambs of any in my small herd.

Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

> On Oct 10, 2015, at 3:01 PM, Carol Elkins  wrote:
> 
> I was very impressed with this Craigslist ad for American Blackbelly sheep. 
> The owner has done a great job talking about the benefits of the breed, of 
> building the reader's confidence that the owner is a good person to do 
> business with, and has priced the sheep at what I believe is a fair value -- 
> $325-$400 each.
> 
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/grd/5260382151.html
> 
> The only way the American Blackbelly breed as a whole will begin to command 
> higher prices is by breeders recognizing the gourmet quality lamb and 
> easy-care sheep that they have and working harder to market those traits. 
> Every week I see so many ads for mutt hair sheep selling for $75 to $125 as 
> adults. Gaack! They are worth at least $300 as freezer lamb! And American 
> Blackbelly are even better!
> 
> It just takes a bit of extra work to have some business cards printed ($10 
> for 500 cards at Vistaprint.com) and to hand them out to everyone you meet. 
> Make sure your doctors get a card, and pin a card up at the local health food 
> store and anywhere else diet-conscious, health-conscious people hang out who 
> are willing to spend money on gourmet-quality, all-natural, chemical free 
> lamb. Find a way to help those people buy your sheep and get it butchered. 
> Know how to help them BEFORE they contact you so that when they do, you'll 
> have all of their questions answered and their problems solved. Once they 
> taste your lamb, they will be lifetime customers. Market your sheep by 
> becoming an evangelist for the breed--if you've eaten your home-grown lamb, 
> you already know that it can easily compete with the best t-bone steak 
> available AND WIN! Quit keeping this to yourself, and spread the word.
> 
> The only people who can increase the value of your sheep breed is YOU!
> 
> Carol
> 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

2015-10-02 Thread Michael Smith

y should be OK for that.  I am done
treating her. She's out of isolation and if she starts to look like
she is suffering, I will put her down. She recently had a caseous on
her neck.  I am not treating her any more, because she is difficult to
inject and probably will end up being put down soon, anyway. She is
such a survivor though, I am curious to see how she does. I do have
one of her daughters. One of my favorite ewes as a pet.

The rest of the three are Groucho, the ram, about 5 years and Pebbles
and Angie, the ewes, about 6 years. They all have had caseous on the
neck, and if that was their first infection of it, we shall see if
their antibodies work now, to prevent further infection. They did get
2.5 weeks of high-dose Penn-G, but I am done with them. I treated them
more as a preventative measure. They are 1s on the malnutrition scale.
Picture of health. The thing to watch is-- if, after that initial neck
caseous, do they start to waste away in a year or so? They are my hope
for the survivability of this onslaught.

This makes me not want to get any new animals, or even, have more
lambs, since, if they cannot survive it, being born on this property
is a death sentence, unless I get rid of everyone and wait at least a
year before having any other ungulates.

-Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 9:30 PM, Michael Smith <mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> huh I started searching around... where the heck do I get
> Formaldehyde?  Amazon. Of course
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Formaldehyde-approx-grade-Pharma-grade-shipped/dp/B00CY4O07Y
>
> read the last review bingo.
>
> "This product saved one of our oldest goats when she suddenly got CL.
> We injected it into her abscess multiple times before it could burst,
> and it dried the abscess out completely! Within a week or so it had
> completely shriveled up and fallen off! Specific instructions are
> online, but this is the right product for treating CL in goats!"
>
> _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Michael Smith <mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> they can get large, like the size of a plum cut in half and under the
>> skin. The are fairly firm. I have lanced one myself, it comes out like
>> white-grey  toothpaste and smells. The vet I have first thought this
>> one was not Caseous, because it stank. I think it was coincidence,
>> because it was close to the mouth and may have had some mouth bacteria
>> in it as well, that helped it stink. I am sure they were all Caseous.
>>
>> I've done more searching today and read in more than one place about
>> people simply injecting the cyst itself with 1ml of formaldehyde
>> instead of opening them, draining, and cleaning the wound, and
>> expecting to disinfect everything that hits the ground. That treatment
>> regimen is in every "Scientific" report you can read on the web.   The
>> more home-spun formaldehyde approach reportedly kills the bacteria in
>> their protective cyst, causes the cyst itself to dry up (of course),
>> and eventually just fall off--harmless. Some breeders have reportedly
>> tried it on many animals. It sounds almost too good to be true, but,
>> since every other treatment involves exposing the area to tons of live
>> bacterium--I'll give it a try.  I've seen at least 3-4 of these cysts.
>> One is active now on a ewe and I might try the formaldehyde, the other
>> two on other ewes, one we treated, one we did not, and one on a ram,
>> which we got to too late and it had opened up, leaked out, and dried
>> up by the time we got to it. From my reading, if they are lucky, they
>> get one on the lower face and develop some form of antibodies for any
>> future infection.
>>
>> I suppose one is lucky if they catch a real obvious cyst on the face
>> or elsewhere on the skin. Marley never showed any outward symptoms. It
>> ravaged his body internally.  Admittedly, with my new crazy-busy
>> position I took at my job, I'd been operating on auto-pilot and not
>> paying as close attention. He's always had strange issues with
>> shedding too early in the end of winter and having a not-so-marvelous
>> coat, so I became numb to trying to look for problems on him.
>>
>> I've now identified one other ram in imminent danger--normally hearty,
>> he is also skinny, two more rams that might be in trouble, and two
>> ewes in serious trouble (one is very old), and two, who have had
>> cysts, I plan to isolate and treat them all with large doses of Pen-G
>> for 30 days.
>>
>> The antibiotic regimen is a Hail Mary. Besides isolation, the papers
>> I've look up simply recommend culling for the truly infected. My l

Re: [Blackbelly] caseous lymphadenitis

2015-09-13 Thread Michael Smith

yeah I know, it can be anywhere in the body (as was Marley's case) but
many animals present first with the one on the neck. The notion is to
do everything to try to nip it in the bud and try to prevent the
further spread in the animal, and also, prevent yet more bacterium
dropping from the abscess onto the property.

my statement about it being "too good to be true" was more because I
think people "do" mistake that for a cure--what if the animal already
has it through their body, and because it's as off-label as it gets.

That said: I'd rather do that, than allow it to open and drain
completely untreated, or have a vet open it up and try to catch the
pus and sterilize the inside of the cyst.

The nasty thing about all this is: I could euthanize the whole flock.
Wait a year, hope it goes away, (they say it can live as long as 8
months in soil) and get more sheep and-- because it could be spread by
flies-- start all over.

It's not like you can put a new animal in quarantine for a month and
be sure. They might not present.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:44 AM, Elizabeth Radi <lizr...@skybeam.com> wrote:
> Michael it is too good to be true.  correct me if I am wrong, but I remember 
> hearing that the abscesses can be internal also.  Specifically inside the 
> udders and shed the bacterium that way.
> Once you have CL in your heard, there is no easy fix.  I have also read that 
> it can contaminate fence posts, feeders etc and lie in the soil for years.  I 
> would like to write more on this, but am on my way to church.
>
> Liz Radi
> Nubian goats
> Nunn, Colorado
>
>
> --- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> From: Michael Smith <mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com>
> To: blackbelly <blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info>
> Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia
> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 21:00:44 -0700
>
> they can get large, like the size of a plum cut in half and under the
> skin. The are fairly firm. I have lanced one myself, it comes out like
> white-grey  toothpaste and smells. The vet I have first thought this
> one was not Caseous, because it stank. I think it was coincidence,
> because it was close to the mouth and may have had some mouth bacteria
> in it as well, that helped it stink. I am sure they were all Caseous.
>
> I've done more searching today and read in more than one place about
> people simply injecting the cyst itself with 1ml of formaldehyde
> instead of opening them, draining, and cleaning the wound, and
> expecting to disinfect everything that hits the ground. That treatment
> regimen is in every "Scientific" report you can read on the web.   The
> more home-spun formaldehyde approach reportedly kills the bacteria in
> their protective cyst, causes the cyst itself to dry up (of course),
> and eventually just fall off--harmless. Some breeders have reportedly
> tried it on many animals. It sounds almost too good to be true, but,
> since every other treatment involves exposing the area to tons of live
> bacterium--I'll give it a try.  I've seen at least 3-4 of these cysts.
> One is active now on a ewe and I might try the formaldehyde, the other
> two on other ewes, one we treated, one we did not, and one on a ram,
> which we got to too late and it had opened up, leaked out, and dried
> up by the time we got to it. From my reading, if they are lucky, they
> get one on the lower face and develop some form of antibodies for any
> future infection.
>
> I suppose one is lucky if they catch a real obvious cyst on the face
> or elsewhere on the skin. Marley never showed any outward symptoms. It
> ravaged his body internally.  Admittedly, with my new crazy-busy
> position I took at my job, I'd been operating on auto-pilot and not
> paying as close attention. He's always had strange issues with
> shedding too early in the end of winter and having a not-so-marvelous
> coat, so I became numb to trying to look for problems on him.
>
> I've now identified one other ram in imminent danger--normally hearty,
> he is also skinny, two more rams that might be in trouble, and two
> ewes in serious trouble (one is very old), and two, who have had
> cysts, I plan to isolate and treat them all with large doses of Pen-G
> for 30 days.
>
> The antibiotic regimen is a Hail Mary. Besides isolation, the papers
> I've look up simply recommend culling for the truly infected. My local
> sheep-herding Vet recommends it, because, I guess he has had some luck
> with it. The woman vet I usually use-- knows this regimen from him.
> She had not heard about the vaccine (efficacy of it is not really
> entirely known--again, it causes a small case of it, and the animal
> builds up antibodies), but I plan to try it ASAP and use it on any

Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

2015-09-12 Thread Michael Smith

Thanks for everyone's advice. The Vet came and did a necropsy on Marley:

Coryne psuedotuberculosis.  All through his body.

I have had a few of the abscesses on my sheeps neck or jaw before and
was aware this was contagious, but was not that aware of how
devastating it could be.. Now I am.

The symptomatic ones will be separated and given antibiotics (for a
month) and also, better feed. The animals that are not symptomatic
look real good and seem to be thriving on the local hay, as they have,
year after year. The sheep that are effected are skinny. The Dr's
opinion is: because they are fighting an infection, they are not
getting enough nutrition.  I am separating them from the wethered
pygmy goats and upping their alfalfa intake along with hay. Can't give
the alfalfa to the male wethered goats.

Everyone has a clear-snot runny nose, the Dr. thinks it is from the
dust. She says OPP is not common in California.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Tiana Franklin <tian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I had a problem with an ewe that had green snotty nose, congested breathing
> and skinny. Checked her eye lids and she was anemic so I dosed her with
> Safeguard and started her on a 5 day round of Pen G. At day 10 there was no
> improvement so I dosed again with Safeguard and 5 day round of LA200 and
> Pen G. By the 5th day her snotty nose and congested breathing was cleared
> up but she was still very pale in the eye lids so I watched for another 5
> days without any improvement to the color in her eyes so on day 20 I dosed
> her with Ivomec and she immediately improved, got color back to her eye
> lids and started gaining weight. Also, I'm in California as well (North bay
> area) and this happened about a month ago when we got hit with really hot
> weather as well and my girl is about 10 years old. Some of my other ewe had
> snotty noses but it wasn't green so I did not treat them.
>
> Tiana
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:00 AM, Cecil R Bearden <crbear...@copper.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Extreme hot weather will cause Pneumonia as quickly as cold.  I think the
>> problem is  dust in the air.  It probably is dust Pneumonia.  Makes no
>> difference what we call it, it has to be treated aggressively.  I would not
>> wait on the vet, I would start giving Combiotic ( Long acting Penicillin )
>> ASAP.  Also, Safeguard liquid wormer will stop the increase in infestation
>> that will occur when the animal is stressed.  If you are in a drought, then
>> your animals have been trying to graze on very short to no grass and will
>> readily pick up a worm load .   I had a young ewe that was  down a few
>> years back, she had rapid onset pneumonia, and I gave her Combiotic,
>> Baytril, and liquid Safeguard  at 10am.  Vet got there at 12noon and
>> started an IV. at 2pm she had diarrhea and was passing dead worms.  At 4pm
>> she was up and walking some.  Next morning she was in good shape. Rest of
>> flock got Safeguard pellets and another dose 2 weeks later.  Ivomec will
>> not work as fast as Safeguard.
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/11/2015 9:34 AM, Michael Smith wrote:
>>
>>> he was 8 years old. A few of the other sheep do have snotty noses as
>>> well. I'll call the vet.
>>>
>>> _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Mark Wintermute
>>> <winterm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You did not mention how old Marley was.  I suspect he did have some age
>>>> to
>>>> him.  OPP (Ovine Pulmonary Pneumonia) could be involved.  There is no
>>>> cure
>>>> for OPP and it is contagious.  Your vet can assist you on testing.  If
>>>> it is
>>>> OPP you will want to test the rest of your flock.  OPP is not rare here
>>>> in
>>>> the United States.  Rest in peace Marley.
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marley had gotten skinny lately, and I de-wormed him, probably too late.
>>>> He
>>>> also had a runny nose.  I had not taken the time to have a vet come out
>>>> and
>>>> see him, since a few other sheep also have runny noses, and they always
>>>> get
>>>> over it, and they look strong.
>>>>
>>>> in any case, he died today. I've never dealt with this particular case
>>>> before so, sorry for the graphic questions.
>>>>
>>>> When I tried to pick up his head to move him, a large amount of light
>>>> brown,
>&

Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

2015-09-12 Thread Michael Smith

huh I started searching around... where the heck do I get
Formaldehyde?  Amazon. Of course

http://www.amazon.com/Formaldehyde-approx-grade-Pharma-grade-shipped/dp/B00CY4O07Y

read the last review bingo.

"This product saved one of our oldest goats when she suddenly got CL.
We injected it into her abscess multiple times before it could burst,
and it dried the abscess out completely! Within a week or so it had
completely shriveled up and fallen off! Specific instructions are
online, but this is the right product for treating CL in goats!"

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Michael Smith <mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> they can get large, like the size of a plum cut in half and under the
> skin. The are fairly firm. I have lanced one myself, it comes out like
> white-grey  toothpaste and smells. The vet I have first thought this
> one was not Caseous, because it stank. I think it was coincidence,
> because it was close to the mouth and may have had some mouth bacteria
> in it as well, that helped it stink. I am sure they were all Caseous.
>
> I've done more searching today and read in more than one place about
> people simply injecting the cyst itself with 1ml of formaldehyde
> instead of opening them, draining, and cleaning the wound, and
> expecting to disinfect everything that hits the ground. That treatment
> regimen is in every "Scientific" report you can read on the web.   The
> more home-spun formaldehyde approach reportedly kills the bacteria in
> their protective cyst, causes the cyst itself to dry up (of course),
> and eventually just fall off--harmless. Some breeders have reportedly
> tried it on many animals. It sounds almost too good to be true, but,
> since every other treatment involves exposing the area to tons of live
> bacterium--I'll give it a try.  I've seen at least 3-4 of these cysts.
> One is active now on a ewe and I might try the formaldehyde, the other
> two on other ewes, one we treated, one we did not, and one on a ram,
> which we got to too late and it had opened up, leaked out, and dried
> up by the time we got to it. From my reading, if they are lucky, they
> get one on the lower face and develop some form of antibodies for any
> future infection.
>
> I suppose one is lucky if they catch a real obvious cyst on the face
> or elsewhere on the skin. Marley never showed any outward symptoms. It
> ravaged his body internally.  Admittedly, with my new crazy-busy
> position I took at my job, I'd been operating on auto-pilot and not
> paying as close attention. He's always had strange issues with
> shedding too early in the end of winter and having a not-so-marvelous
> coat, so I became numb to trying to look for problems on him.
>
> I've now identified one other ram in imminent danger--normally hearty,
> he is also skinny, two more rams that might be in trouble, and two
> ewes in serious trouble (one is very old), and two, who have had
> cysts, I plan to isolate and treat them all with large doses of Pen-G
> for 30 days.
>
> The antibiotic regimen is a Hail Mary. Besides isolation, the papers
> I've look up simply recommend culling for the truly infected. My local
> sheep-herding Vet recommends it, because, I guess he has had some luck
> with it. The woman vet I usually use-- knows this regimen from him.
> She had not heard about the vaccine (efficacy of it is not really
> entirely known--again, it causes a small case of it, and the animal
> builds up antibodies), but I plan to try it ASAP and use it on any
> lambs I have here from now on. It is NOT tested or developed for
> goats. There's no vaccine for goats, yet. And I have 3 goats.
>
> The biggest issue is: leaving a pasture alone for 8 months or more, to
> try to let it no longer be infected. My property is too small to try
> to do that. There's a central place with the shelter, water, etc, and
> if the bacteria is present, it can thrive there.
>
> -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Carol Elkins <celk...@critterhaven.biz> 
> wrote:
>> Michael, I am so sorry you are having to go through this.
>>
>> Coryne psuedotuberculosis is the bacterium that causes the disease Caseous
>> Lymphadenitis (CL) in sheep. There is no cure. See
>> http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis and
>> other sources.
>>
>> An abscess on a sheep's jaw/throat is commonly the first symptom to appear
>> with CL. But it is very easy to confuse with bottle jaw and milk goiter.
>> I've read that CL abscesses are hard whereas bottle jaw and milk goiter
>> lumps are soft. What do the abscesses on your sheep look and feel like?
>>
>> Carol
>>
>> At 02:15

Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

2015-09-12 Thread Michael Smith

they can get large, like the size of a plum cut in half and under the
skin. The are fairly firm. I have lanced one myself, it comes out like
white-grey  toothpaste and smells. The vet I have first thought this
one was not Caseous, because it stank. I think it was coincidence,
because it was close to the mouth and may have had some mouth bacteria
in it as well, that helped it stink. I am sure they were all Caseous.

I've done more searching today and read in more than one place about
people simply injecting the cyst itself with 1ml of formaldehyde
instead of opening them, draining, and cleaning the wound, and
expecting to disinfect everything that hits the ground. That treatment
regimen is in every "Scientific" report you can read on the web.   The
more home-spun formaldehyde approach reportedly kills the bacteria in
their protective cyst, causes the cyst itself to dry up (of course),
and eventually just fall off--harmless. Some breeders have reportedly
tried it on many animals. It sounds almost too good to be true, but,
since every other treatment involves exposing the area to tons of live
bacterium--I'll give it a try.  I've seen at least 3-4 of these cysts.
One is active now on a ewe and I might try the formaldehyde, the other
two on other ewes, one we treated, one we did not, and one on a ram,
which we got to too late and it had opened up, leaked out, and dried
up by the time we got to it. From my reading, if they are lucky, they
get one on the lower face and develop some form of antibodies for any
future infection.

I suppose one is lucky if they catch a real obvious cyst on the face
or elsewhere on the skin. Marley never showed any outward symptoms. It
ravaged his body internally.  Admittedly, with my new crazy-busy
position I took at my job, I'd been operating on auto-pilot and not
paying as close attention. He's always had strange issues with
shedding too early in the end of winter and having a not-so-marvelous
coat, so I became numb to trying to look for problems on him.

I've now identified one other ram in imminent danger--normally hearty,
he is also skinny, two more rams that might be in trouble, and two
ewes in serious trouble (one is very old), and two, who have had
cysts, I plan to isolate and treat them all with large doses of Pen-G
for 30 days.

The antibiotic regimen is a Hail Mary. Besides isolation, the papers
I've look up simply recommend culling for the truly infected. My local
sheep-herding Vet recommends it, because, I guess he has had some luck
with it. The woman vet I usually use-- knows this regimen from him.
She had not heard about the vaccine (efficacy of it is not really
entirely known--again, it causes a small case of it, and the animal
builds up antibodies), but I plan to try it ASAP and use it on any
lambs I have here from now on. It is NOT tested or developed for
goats. There's no vaccine for goats, yet. And I have 3 goats.

The biggest issue is: leaving a pasture alone for 8 months or more, to
try to let it no longer be infected. My property is too small to try
to do that. There's a central place with the shelter, water, etc, and
if the bacteria is present, it can thrive there.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Carol Elkins  wrote:
> Michael, I am so sorry you are having to go through this.
>
> Coryne psuedotuberculosis is the bacterium that causes the disease Caseous
> Lymphadenitis (CL) in sheep. There is no cure. See
> http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis and
> other sources.
>
> An abscess on a sheep's jaw/throat is commonly the first symptom to appear
> with CL. But it is very easy to confuse with bottle jaw and milk goiter.
> I've read that CL abscesses are hard whereas bottle jaw and milk goiter
> lumps are soft. What do the abscesses on your sheep look and feel like?
>
> Carol
>
> At 02:15 PM 9/12/2015, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for everyone's advice. The Vet came and did a necropsy on Marley:
>>
>> Coryne psuedotuberculosis.  All through his body.
>>
>> I have had a few of the abscesses on my sheeps neck or jaw before and
>> was aware this was contagious, but was not that aware of how
>> devastating it could be.. Now I am.
>
>
> ___
> This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
___
This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info

Re: [Blackbelly] Marley the AB ram died, I suspect pneumonia

2015-09-11 Thread Michael Smith

he was 8 years old. A few of the other sheep do have snotty noses as
well. I'll call the vet.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 4:10 AM, Mark Wintermute
 wrote:
> You did not mention how old Marley was.  I suspect he did have some age to
> him.  OPP (Ovine Pulmonary Pneumonia) could be involved.  There is no cure
> for OPP and it is contagious.  Your vet can assist you on testing.  If it is
> OPP you will want to test the rest of your flock.  OPP is not rare here in
> the United States.  Rest in peace Marley.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> Marley had gotten skinny lately, and I de-wormed him, probably too late. He
> also had a runny nose.  I had not taken the time to have a vet come out and
> see him, since a few other sheep also have runny noses, and they always get
> over it, and they look strong.
>
> in any case, he died today. I've never dealt with this particular case
> before so, sorry for the graphic questions.
>
> When I tried to pick up his head to move him, a large amount of light brown,
> very watery liquid came pouring and I mean "pouring" from both nostrils. It
> smells. Not super strong, but not pleasant. I tilted his head and I am sure
> I got about half a pint. I am sure there's probably another half pint in
> there for sure.
>
> I am thinking pneumonia?
>
> If so, I imagine I should get the vet out to hear some lungs on the still
> living?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help in this.
>
> I plan to have his skull preserved and glue that broken horn tip back on, so
> I can have a nice reminder of him.  His rack was magnificent.
>
>
> ___
> This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
> Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
___
This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info

Re: [Blackbelly] lamb birth

2015-02-24 Thread Michael Smith

Wow Rick! That was a quick drop for some twins! No lambs for us this year, 
looking to buy some mini pigmy goats for our son. 

Michael W. Smith

 On Feb 23, 2015, at 9:26 PM, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 I love your pictures, Tiana. Here are some I took at my place this morning:   
 http://youtu.be/HXqOVSP9sDw
 
 Rick Krachin Auburn, CA 
 
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
   1. Chinese Lunar New Year Parade (Tiana Franklin)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:37:28 -0800
 From: Tiana Franklin tian...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Chinese Lunar New Year Parade
 Message-ID:
CAMf2muX4=hxx5ze-pm27+wpu8bkrvdtunb6lxwcyepfgsex...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Hi Everyone,
 Well the walking of our ram, Shooter, in the Chinese Lunar New Year parade
 in San Francisco was a success. Shooter was so well mannered. As soon as we
 brought him out of the trailer he was the center of attention. Everyone
 wanted to pet him, touch his horns and take pictures with him. There was
 also a horned dorset and navajo churro ram there and they did wonderfully
 as well. Shooter became a little ramy when he saw the other two rams but
 settled in after a little while. There were a lot of fire crackers, drums
 and dancing dragons and he just took it all in. When the mayor put a
 necklace thing around his neck we were surrounded by cameras and he was
 very well mannered. During the mayor's speech Shooter had a little girl
 massaging his ears the whole time. Once the speech was over we went back to
 the trailers and we once again surrounded by people wanted pictures with
 the rams. We finally had to tell people no more so that we could leave and
 Shooter was quit exhausted by the whole thing. I would love to know what he
 thought about the whole experience and what he told the other sheep when we
 got back :)
 
 If I would have had more notice I would have made up cards with information
 about the breed that I could have passed out because everyone was
 interested in more information but we were so busy that we didn't have the
 time to spend with each person.
 
 Here some pictures. Enjoy.
 https://plus.google.com/photos/105557857002706950119/albums/6118783555126117329
 
 -- 
 Tiana Franklin
 
 
 ___
 This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
 Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
___
This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list
Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info

Re: [Blackbelly] lamb birth

2015-02-24 Thread Michael Smith

Rick,. great shooting! At first I thought that was twincs! is it my
imagination or is that a big-un?  Looks to be 11-12 lbs.

-Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 I love your pictures, Tiana. Here are some I took at my place this morning:   
 http://youtu.be/HXqOVSP9sDw

 Rick Krachin Auburn, CA



 Today's Topics:

1. Chinese Lunar New Year Parade (Tiana Franklin)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 13:37:28 -0800
 From: Tiana Franklin tian...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Chinese Lunar New Year Parade
 Message-ID:
   CAMf2muX4=hxx5ze-pm27+wpu8bkrvdtunb6lxwcyepfgsex...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Hi Everyone,
 Well the walking of our ram, Shooter, in the Chinese Lunar New Year parade
 in San Francisco was a success. Shooter was so well mannered. As soon as we
 brought him out of the trailer he was the center of attention. Everyone
 wanted to pet him, touch his horns and take pictures with him. There was
 also a horned dorset and navajo churro ram there and they did wonderfully
 as well. Shooter became a little ramy when he saw the other two rams but
 settled in after a little while. There were a lot of fire crackers, drums
 and dancing dragons and he just took it all in. When the mayor put a
 necklace thing around his neck we were surrounded by cameras and he was
 very well mannered. During the mayor's speech Shooter had a little girl
 massaging his ears the whole time. Once the speech was over we went back to
 the trailers and we once again surrounded by people wanted pictures with
 the rams. We finally had to tell people no more so that we could leave and
 Shooter was quit exhausted by the whole thing. I would love to know what he
 thought about the whole experience and what he told the other sheep when we
 got back :)

 If I would have had more notice I would have made up cards with information
 about the breed that I could have passed out because everyone was
 interested in more information but we were so busy that we didn't have the
 time to spend with each person.

 Here some pictures. Enjoy.
 https://plus.google.com/photos/105557857002706950119/albums/6118783555126117329

 --
 Tiana Franklin



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Re: [Blackbelly] Chinese Lunar New Year Parade

2015-02-24 Thread Michael Smith

These pictures are great! And he's intact, too! I am surprised he is
as tame and well-mannered as he is. I tried to clicker-train with my
first ram, Marley, who was bottle-fed-- and he became aggressive. Not
sure how you accomplished what you did with your ram Shooter.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Tiana Franklin tian...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Everyone,
 Well the walking of our ram, Shooter, in the Chinese Lunar New Year parade
 in San Francisco was a success. Shooter was so well mannered. As soon as we
 brought him out of the trailer he was the center of attention. Everyone
 wanted to pet him, touch his horns and take pictures with him. There was
 also a horned dorset and navajo churro ram there and they did wonderfully
 as well. Shooter became a little ramy when he saw the other two rams but
 settled in after a little while. There were a lot of fire crackers, drums
 and dancing dragons and he just took it all in. When the mayor put a
 necklace thing around his neck we were surrounded by cameras and he was
 very well mannered. During the mayor's speech Shooter had a little girl
 massaging his ears the whole time. Once the speech was over we went back to
 the trailers and we once again surrounded by people wanted pictures with
 the rams. We finally had to tell people no more so that we could leave and
 Shooter was quit exhausted by the whole thing. I would love to know what he
 thought about the whole experience and what he told the other sheep when we
 got back :)

 If I would have had more notice I would have made up cards with information
 about the breed that I could have passed out because everyone was
 interested in more information but we were so busy that we didn't have the
 time to spend with each person.

 Here some pictures. Enjoy.
 https://plus.google.com/photos/105557857002706950119/albums/6118783555126117329

 --
 Tiana Franklin
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Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

2014-06-02 Thread Michael Smith

I have had our 5-month old pup for a couple of weeks now, he's 50% Abkash and 
the rest Pyrenees and Anatolian.  His name is Grover. Sheila the Aussie and he, 
do not get along, Sheila wonders why she has to share us, and scolds him 
sometimes. Mostly. She ignores him barking at her. But last night they were a 
great team. 

Woken up at 2 am to Grover going ballistic. Since he's been here, for a pup, 
he's remarkably not barking and whining all night, so I went out. They were, 
whether they knew it or not, working as a team. The entire group of 12 or so 
goats and sheep were hiding in a chevron formation behind Grover, back at the 
corral. Sheila was out at the fence line barking at something that had 
apparently, just gotten away. 

Thanks for all the support and encouragement. 

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On May 12, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Steve st...@ninemilesheep.com wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 
 I have also heard that Llamas and burros make great flock guards.  I luckily 
 dont have any problems here in the desert, but if I did, I'd go with LGDs.  
 Brenda Negri out of Winnemucca, NV breeds and raises some great LGDs.  I have 
 stopped by her place and talked with her. She raises her dogs in a social 
 setting with sheep, miniature cows, and her other dogs.  She would be a great 
 source for dogs that would be stout enough for even the bigger coyotes in the 
 east.  Her website is: http://lgdnevada.com/
 
 Steve
 www.ninemilesheep.com
 
 
 On 5/11/2014 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi wrote:
 Michael.
 we have a male and a female team.  The female is spayed, and the male is 
 whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him. 
  We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, 
 that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents 
 showed him the ropes, they were good dogs.
 These LGD mature around 2 years old.  I would not trust them with babies 
 until after that time.  And they know what they are supposed to do.
 Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good 
 guard dog.  Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will 
 automatically be a good mother.
 
 
 Liz Radi
 Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
 Nunn, Colorado
 970-716-7218
 idaralpaca.blogspot.com
 
 --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
 Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500
 
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
 
 starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject
 regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to
 dogs I'd like to ask:
 
 male or female dog? does it matter?
 at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get
 played with and accidentally killed?
 at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a
 AB-BB lamb?
 
 since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only
 two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to
 spend allowing a puppy to figure things out.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] New mother pawing the ground

2014-05-14 Thread Michael Smith

I am certainly no expert, but this is my 4th round of lambing with this herd. 
This year, the one ewe who has lambed so far actually buried one placenta in 
the straw. Never seen that before. Placentas come after the birth, so you 
likely will not find a third placenta without a lamb. 

Lately she has been pawing the ground on occasion. Sometimes it's to let me 
know she's hungry. Sometimes, it's to tell the dog to get the heck away. Her 
sister paws the ground to tell the lambs to keep their distance. It could be 
anything, from what I am seeing.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On May 13, 2014, at 4:34 PM, David Sussman david.gadog...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 We have a new mother ewe, her first time, who just gave birth to two males
 this morning.  Throughout the day we have noticed her continuing to paw at
 the ground like she had been doing in the previous days, but from what
 we've read it is unusual for it to continue after birth.  This is her first
 experience so it's possible that she is just nervous (she is normally very
 personable) but we are a bit concerned about a third (possibly stillborn?)
 lamb in her.  I have been checking for the placenta but haven't seen it
 (she may have eaten in when I wasn't around) so it's possible that she's
 still waiting to pass it and that is causing her behavior.
 
 To clarify, she has been penned with her two lambs with ample straw and
 generally digs at the hard dirt below the straw as opposed to the straw
 itself.
 
 At what point should we start to be concerned?  We've had about a dozen
 births here so far but nothing quite like this.  We appreciate the help.
 
 David Sussman
 Sebastopol, CA
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Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas

2014-05-12 Thread Michael Smith

(re-senmding this message. Carol was not sure if it went through)

Ah, the roller fence. I saw some examples of this as well..definitely
effective on domestics dogs, would be interesting to see if it
actually works on coyotes.

http://www.coyoteroller.com

Looks very interesting and less ugly than the angled prison fencing I
have been I thinking about.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/2008-08-01_No_Tresspassing_sign_at_RDU.jpg

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:48 PM, elaine_wil...@earthlink.net wrote:
Hi Jann,

Yes, would love for you to further elaborate on the 4 pvc pipe on the top
of the fence. Did you just cut a slit in one side and just slide it over the
top horizontal? Did you do anything to secure it further?

Elaine

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 12:21:47 -0600
From: Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas
Message-ID: 39787586-218a-4c26-b081-857d77bc6...@aol.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I put a 4 pvc pipe on the top of the fence. Makes it nearly impossible to
scale as they have no traction to grab the top of the fence. I can further
elaborate if anyone is interested.

Jann

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Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas

2014-05-12 Thread Michael Smith

here's the really good home-spun solution I was thinking about. Two
sizes of PVC pipe, and some strong wire. They don't show this, but I
was thinking, you could maybe even attach bells or noise-makers to it.
Coyote rolls it, makes alarm noise, dogs alerted.

http://www.huskycamp.com/security.htm

The only thing to consider is: PVC is meant to be installed under
ground and does not do all that well with UV rays. It would take
years, but eventually need replacing.

http://www.jmeagle.com/pdfs/Technical%20Bulletins/TB10SunlightEffectsonPVC.pdf

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Elizabeth Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote:
I saw a picture of this on facebook. But it was made with pvc. Would
probably be more cost effective. Anyway, I put it on my fb page. under Liz
Whalen Radi

Liz Radi
Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
Nunn, Colorado
970-716-7218
idaralpaca.blogspot.com

--- mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:

From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas
Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 10:13:50 -0700

(re-senmding this message. Carol was not sure if it went through)

Ah, the roller fence. I saw some examples of this as well..definitely
effective on domestics dogs, would be interesting to see if it
actually works on coyotes.

http://www.coyoteroller.com

Looks very interesting and less ugly than the angled prison fencing I
have been I thinking about.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/2008-08-01_No_Tresspassing_sign_at_RDU.jpg

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 2:48 PM, elaine_wil...@earthlink.net wrote:
Hi Jann,

Elaine

I put a 4 pvc pipe on the top of the fence. Makes it nearly impossible to
scale as they have no traction to grab the top of the fence. I can further
elaborate if anyone is interested.

Jann

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Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

2014-05-11 Thread Michael Smith

This feedback is all very interesting. We went to go look at a litter of 75% 
Pyrenees and some percentage of Anatoli (dad was some form of mix, but mostly 
Anatoli) . My first exposure to LGDs. I liked the Pyrenees mom quite a bit.  
She was great. Loved her barking at raptors. Very keen on her surroundings.  I 
do have a strange situation to try to dovetail a new dog into : my  Aussie 
shepherd that has been trained to not herd, but to protect. She's actually 
quite good at it. 

So, question is, what dog do I put  her in with: 8-week old LGD puppy? Or a 
mature LGD to try to mix in with her? Worried that the mature dog will not be 
bonded or won't bond with my animals. 

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On May 11, 2014, at 6:00 AM, Elizabeth Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote:
 
 Michael.
 we have a male and a female team.  The female is spayed, and the male is 
 whole, but he is not used for breeding, although many have asked to use him.  
 We got him at 8 months old, and he would not go into buildings or vehicles, 
 that is why he was not neutered. He was raised with alpacas, and his parents 
 showed him the ropes, they were good dogs.
 These LGD mature around 2 years old.  I would not trust them with babies 
 until after that time.  And they know what they are supposed to do.
 Just because a LGD is a guardian breed, does not mean that it will be a good 
 guard dog.  Just like, a female has a uterus, does not mean she will 
 automatically be a good mother.
 
 
 Liz Radi
 Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep
 Nunn, Colorado
 970-716-7218
 idaralpaca.blogspot.com
 
 --- winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:
 
 From: Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
 Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 15:56:08 -0500
 
 
 
 
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas
 
 starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject
 regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions related to
 dogs I'd like to ask:
 
 male or female dog? does it matter?
 at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to get
 played with and accidentally killed?
 at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally kill a
 AB-BB lamb?
 
 since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and only
 two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs around to
 spend allowing a puppy to figure things out.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

2014-05-10 Thread Michael Smith

starting to look into LGDs locally. I'll try googling on the subject
regarding the dogs themselves, but there are some AB-BB questions
related to dogs I'd like to ask:

male or female dog? does it matter?
at what weight/age are the AB-BB lambs, that they are less likely to
get played with and accidentally killed?
at what age are the dogs when they are less likely to accidentally
kill a AB-BB lamb?

since we only breed once a year--in this case, once in 3 years-- and
only two or three ewes at a time, we don't have a bunch of spare lambs
around to spend allowing a puppy to figure things out.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies



On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:
 This is all great feedback on the LGDs thanks, folks. Mark I am sorry I am 
 not closer. Would love to buy a pup. Here they cost about $500. (Not sure how 
 much you get, though;-P

 Carol your minimalist barkers sound like my Aussie Sheila. She's fine in my 
 book. What she does not do is just go on a 1-hour 2am lonesome barking jag 
 that does not stop. I would not be able to deal with that, even with 
 earplugs, which I do use. For her, there's always at least a reason in her 
 mind to bark.  Sometimes she joins in on the local dog chorus of full moon 
 baying and if I don't like it I let her know and she's pretty good about 
 stopping.

 When I saw her growl and chase away that full grown coyote the second night, 
 I realized what a fool I had been to take her to the next pasture while two 
 perfectly safe ewes, in a closed paddock, had lambs. Why I was so concerned 
 about their stress levels is beyond me. Now I know the reason the last 
 attackers last year never came back was soley because of Sheila being in 
 there all last year. Not a bad use for an untrained herder.

 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

 Sent from my iPad

 On May 9, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote:

 Michael,

 Most LGDs believe that a good offense is the best defense and will network 
 with the entire neighborhood to keep current on the state of affairs. 
 Networking in this sense is barking. And LGDs need to bark long before there 
 is a problem to ensure that whatever is out there doesn't become a problem. 
 In my experience, there are over-barky LGDs, but I have found that my 
 minimalist LGDs still bark at things that I don't perceive as problems. Like 
 you, my farm was victim to a combined cougar/coyote attack that killed and 
 consumed 5 90-lb lambs. I lived under siege until I could purchase my LGDs. 
 They were 6 months old when they arrived (they don't become adults until 
 they are 2 years old), but they had their adult bark. That bark is what I 
 have relied on ever since they arrived in 2008 to keep my farm safe. Yes, it 
 can be really annoying at times (full moons are particularly problematic), 
 but I have ear plugs.

 Carol


 At 03:50 PM 5/9/2014, you wrote:
 Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a
 problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to
 us.  I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that
 example.

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] 150 day gestation? How accurate?

2014-05-09 Thread Michael Smith

well, 7 days after the 150 day period was up. 150 days was April 30,
Beatrice dropped a beautiful pair on May 7th. I'd like to hope they
are Harpo's lambs.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/BeatriceLambs2014/39501829_35R8Gh#!i=3233820778k=QtgWbtf

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, Mark a thoughtful response. I'll keep track of things. It's my own
stupidity that brought this doubt on the scene to begin with. We'll see if I
get a break somehow.

-Michael Smith,
Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On May 2, 2014, at 7:11 PM, Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
wrote:

Hi Michael,

I have seen lambs delivered nearly a week early to over a week late from
actual date of service. Basically the lambs are born when mother nature
says they are ready (in a perfect world). We are lambing right now and it
started with several ewes apparently conceiving the same day they were put
with the rams. There is a silent estrus brought on by sudden exposure to
rams (google ram effect) and the ewe can conceive within the first 48 hours.
Then around 5 days later they will have full estrus which the rams are more
reliable with (one week from first exposure to the ewes). Then you start
the normal 17 day estrus cycle of the ewes.

So if the wrong rams were not with the ewes but for a brief time and they go
over a week on the possible gestation date you are probably getting lambs
off your desired sire.

Good luck!

Mark

As per my comedy of errors story below:

April 30th was 150 days, and one of the ewes, Beatrice was starting to bag
up around day 145 or 148 or so. Still no lambs. The other, Jules is
probably pregnant, but no where near as huge as Beatrice. Jules may not lamb
for another couple of weeks. Beatrice appears to be ready to drop at any
time. At least twins, I suspect.

is 150 days pretty accurate for ABs? The two rogue rams got to the ewes 150
days before April 30th. I am hoping the girls might not have been in full
estrus and that when the two rogue rams got to them, nothing happened. Since
April 30 has came and gone, the more days we get into May, the less chance
the sire is one of the rogue rams.

On the same day back in December, the ewes were then with the ram I DID want
as sire for the next 30 days or so, I am hoping he is the sire, and maybe
got Beatrice pregnant a few days later.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

Re: [Blackbelly] Coyote fence ideas

2014-05-09 Thread Michael Smith

Coyote attack update: My two surviving Pygmy goats ended up needing
vet attention. Lucy, especially, had her tongue hanging half out her
mouth, 50% of the time, and was actually trying to eat around her
tongue hanging out the side of her mouth. Sometimes the poor thing
would foam up and make me worried she had the word's fastest-acting
case of rabies. The vet had not seen anything quite like this--
without it simply being a broken jaw or worse.  I am posting this to
the sheep forum in case it helps you folks with survivors of attack.

Both Lucy and Lucas were, apparently, saved from the jaws of death by
me coming out to investigate that night. The vet and I shaved their
necks and they both had tooth punctures and lacerations. Lucy had a
bad swelling under her tongue as well as a good sized puncture right
under it that might be infected. She was treated with banamine and
penicillin (I am still injecting both goats with penicillin for
another few days), and she looked much better as short as only 6 hours
later. The next day, almost no tongue hanging out at all. Today, even
better.  It appears the swelling might have been pressing on a nerve
for her tongue, but she may also have some permanent nerve damage
there.

Now, to keep an eye on her for weight loss, and also, cough caused by
aspirating liquid.

As for my anti-coyote plan going forward:  Sheila, my dog is in there
100% of the time, now. And at night I am penning up the goats, and the
willing sheep. This way, Sheila does not contend with an acre's worth
of fenced pasture with 10 animals splitting up and running all over
the place. She simply guards three gates for paddocks (See my lamb
pictures for an idea of the size)  I have a good lead on a young,
possibly bred female llama. But, I am thinking more seriously about a
LDG pup to put in with Sheila. BTW: Sheila is not an LGD, she is an
Aussie that was rescued and has never been taught to herd. In fact,
I've had to discourage her from herding in order to get her to
co-exist with the ewes and goats and guard the property in general.
But she loves having a job.

Sheila is a good dog in that she only barks when there's really a
problem. Living only 30-40 feet from the house, that is important to
us.  I'd like to at least try to get the pup to learn from that
example. Also, she's more than half through her life, so some new
blood would be a good idea.

The llama thing, from reading everyone's posts, seems a bit hit and
miss. Dogs seem to be everyone's last and best line of defense, from
what I am reading.

Improved fencing would be next. Electric at the bottom and maybe
prison-style angled, barbwire fencing at the top, to prevent them from
getting over the top.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.  San Martin, CA.

On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:12 AM, Cecil R Bearden crbear...@copper.net wrote:
 I am in central Oklahoma, and here, the animal damage control boys tell me
 that we have a variety of eastern Coyote that is becoming a problem.   I had
 coyote problems several years ago and trapped 2 coyotes, and 3 dogs.  We
 have a local problem here of an individual taking in every stray dog that
 comes along, and he took one in that bred with a coyote bitch that has
 occupied a den in a field I rent.  I saw her 2 pups last year and they
 definitely had the head of the stray dog I referred to. The dog is now gone,
 thanks to a car, but his legacy lives on.   A coyote is incredibly
 resourceful at survival both short and long term.  Around here, it will eat
 the dog or cat food put outside, then it will eat the dog or cat.   Keeping
 dog food inside and also keeping dogs neutered and confined to their
 property will go long way in keeping the coyote population in check.

 Cecil in OKla



 On 5/6/2014 2:28 PM, Joanne Vaughn wrote:

 I wish that submitters would indicate what area of the county they are
 posting from.
 It is especially important when one considers a subject like coyotes.

 Here in the northeast coyotes are hybridizing with Canadian wolves and
 they
 are hunting in groups.
 What may work in Southern California where the coyotes are just slightly
 larger than northeastern
 foxes might not work with a Coy-wolf.

 That being said, we live in a  coyote high count neighborhood  where the
 Coyotes are about the size of
 German Shepherd dogs.  This winter we protected 30 sheep and 24 ducks with
 a woven wire fence, hot wires at top and bottom and 2 standard donkeys
 free
 to patrol the paddock at night. The coyotes left evidence that they scaled
 the 48 woven wire of an adjacent paddock. And they were seen traversing
 adjacent paddocks but did not enter our protected night paddock.

 Some say just the scent of donkeys is enough to keep them away but that is
 not correct. Some say Standards must be required as to have the size
 needed. We had an incident near Buffalo NY where a woman's mini donk was
 attacked by a coyote even as she tried to defend it. A friends 2 minis ran
 for self preservation and left the

[Blackbelly] Anti coyote fence ideas

2014-05-04 Thread Michael Smith

I finally saw it as some list-members described: a full grown coyote run up to 
my 4.5 foot tall fence and just scale it. It was last night after a previous 
night coyote attack that killed my two beloved miniature Pygmy goats and harmed 
my toe other pygmys. The sheep were unscathed. I know lessons in shepherding 
are hard-earned and I had been thinking about coyotes considering last years 
June attack. This year I thought I was being safer. Had the animals in the 
central pasture--which has no holes in the fence, the dog was in the pasture 
next door. I had been letting her in with the ewes and goats at night, but 
stopped doing it, since I have two ewes in a paddock that are ready to lamb and 
I was trying to not stress them out too much.

That was a mistake. 

So, after cleaning up the mess yesterday and figuring out one goat has a limp 
and the other has a partially paralyzed tongue, I decided to move Sheila, our 
dog's home, permanently with the ewes and goats.

I have one of those 1000 candle LED flashlights (which, while costing around 
$80-100, I highly recommend--they go forever and look like daylight ) and went 
out around 10pm as I had also at 9:00 and 9:30. This time, I was just in time 
to hear Sheila growl and see a fully grown coyote lope up to the fence and use 
just a few steps to scale it and hop over. 

Will simply making the fence straight and higher help? Or I was thinking of 
doing something like prison fencing where the fence angles at a 45 degree up 
higher and makes it so a climbing coyote would be almost upside down at the 
top. 

http://wolfdogproject.com/fence/leanin2.jpg

Seems easier and safer than an electrical system along the top edge, which I am 
thinking the coyotes might not mind a shock, if there's a good meal

Having the dog in there will certainly help, and I plan to try to lock the 
animals in the smaller gated paddocks at night and also, amend their paddock 
fencing so they go to the roof. Basically a box, for sleeping in. 

The other question, can people with a single burro or llama actually claim they 
have never sustained an attack after getting the larger animal?

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

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Re: [Blackbelly] 150 day gestation? How accurate?

2014-05-03 Thread Michael Smith

Thanks, Mark a thoughtful response. I'll keep track of things. It's my own 
stupidity that brought this doubt on the scene to begin with. We'll see if I 
get a break somehow. 

-Michael Smith,
Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On May 2, 2014, at 7:11 PM, Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net 
 wrote:
 
 Hi Michael,
 
 I have seen lambs delivered nearly a week early to over a week late from
 actual date of service.  Basically the lambs are born when mother nature
 says they are ready (in a perfect world).  We are lambing right now and it
 started with several ewes apparently conceiving the same day they were put
 with the rams.  There is a silent estrus brought on by sudden exposure to
 rams (google ram effect) and the ewe can conceive within the first 48 hours.
 Then around 5 days later they will have full estrus which the rams are more
 reliable with (one week from first exposure to the ewes).  Then you start
 the normal 17 day estrus cycle of the ewes.
 
 So if the wrong rams were not with the ewes but for a brief time and they go
 over a week on the possible gestation date you are probably getting lambs
 off your desired sire.
 
 Good luck!
 
 Mark
 
 
 As per my comedy of errors story below:
 
 April 30th was 150 days, and one of the ewes, Beatrice was starting to bag
 up around day 145 or 148 or so.  Still no lambs.  The other, Jules is
 probably pregnant, but no where near as huge as Beatrice. Jules may not lamb
 for another couple of weeks. Beatrice appears to be ready to drop at any
 time. At least twins, I suspect.
 
 is 150 days pretty accurate for ABs?  The two rogue rams got to the ewes 150
 days before April 30th. I am hoping the girls might not have been in full
 estrus and that when the two rogue rams got to them, nothing happened. Since
 April 30 has came and gone, the more days we get into May, the less chance
 the sire is one of the rogue rams.
 
 On the same day back in December, the ewes were then with the ram I DID want
 as sire for the next 30 days or so, I am hoping he is the sire, and maybe
 got Beatrice pregnant a few days later.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
 
 
 
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[Blackbelly] 150 day gestation? How accurate?

2014-05-02 Thread Michael Smith

As per my comedy of errors story below:

April 30th was 150 days, and one of the ewes, Beatrice was starting to
bag up around day 145 or 148 or so.  Still no lambs.  The other, Jules
is probably pregnant, but no where near as huge as Beatrice. Jules may
not lamb for another couple of weeks. Beatrice appears to be ready to
drop at any time. At least twins, I suspect.

is 150 days pretty accurate for ABs?  The two rogue rams got to the
ewes 150 days before April 30th. I am hoping the girls might not have
been in full estrus and that when the two rogue rams got to them,
nothing happened. Since April 30 has came and gone, the more days we
get into May, the less chance the sire is one of the rogue rams.

On the same day back in December, the ewes were then with the ram I
DID want as sire for the next 30 days or so, I am hoping he is the
sire, and maybe got Beatrice pregnant a few days later.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.


On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:
 So, I have 4 acres with many many separate pastures with gates and
 enclosures. I spent the morning first separating out the two ewes,
 pasture by pasture (I don't have a chute system yet). I wanted to pair
 these girls with Harpo an inexperienced but beautiful ram. They went
 into a pasture right next door to the rams, which were already
 fighting over them, and the girls were demonstrating the fact they
 appeared to be in heat.

 Mind you, I am doing this all by myself this morning.

 I have 5 intact rams, but they are actually not too difficult to
 separate out. There was a narrow 8' wide by about 30' long run between
 the ewe's pasture and the ram's pasture, and it had some fresh green
 grass in it that looked real good to eat.  I set up the gate to allow
 all the rams into the run, through the gate, one at a time, and simply
 not allowing Harpo in. It worked-- since he's timid-- and was the last
 one trying to follow in. I then lazily threw a chain around a post,
 thinking the gate would stay closed juust long enough to chase
 Harpo in through a small shaded gate under a shed roof, and he'd go in
 with the girls. I forgot the famous findings of Temple Grandin and how
 herd animals don't like to enter shaded, scary looking places.

 Then things went wrong and I wish I had a camera, since it would have
 a good Darwin Award Video, with me starring as the Village Idiot.

 Harpo is being scared of where I am trying to force him to go, so he's
 running everywhere through a pasture but not through the dark opening
 to the girl's pasture.  Meanwhile, the other rams start banging
 against the run gate, and two other rams bang the gate loose, they're
 no fools, and instantly run in through the shaded opening, in with the
 ewes. They start mounting away, as I have to secure the run gate to
 keep the rest of the rams from escaping... I am cussing my head off,
 realizing my selective breeding program has probably just been
 spoiled, if the girls are really fully in heat. It takes about a
 minute to really chain the gate well, and these guys are wasting no
 time.

 I manage to grab a more tame one, Ziggy, almost instantly, and drag
 him back with the rest of the guys, cussing all the while. The other,
 Verne, is working the girls over and staying with them as they run all
 over the place, mounting them every time they will stay still in
 between chases by me. I could only imagine he knew he was on borrowed
 time :-)

 I end up having to close everything, let the rams back out of the long
 run into their pasture, and re-set the gates to use the long run as a
 trap on my side instead, and run Verne and the girls into the long
 narrow run so I can separate them. It works fairly easily.

 At this point, I am glad I have experience with a crook. Since he
 little place to run, I crook him handily and end up picking him up and
 just dumping him over the fence into the ram pasture again. Good thing
 he's the smaller of the rams!

 Chase the girls out of the run, start the whole process over. Close
 off the gates to favor the ram side again. Rams still easily walk into
 the long run one by one, cut off Harpo again, but this time, I use
 BrainPower and bother to stop and chain everything up well.

 I guess if they lamb in 150 days to the day, I'll know there's no idea
 who the father is, but if they take a week or more than the normal
 period, it's a good chance Harpo is the father. The other two are
 plenty good sires, but they are not Harpo.

 The learning question here is: besides me being daft and
 underestimating Harpo's reluctance to go into a shaded, strange
 area--and not chaining things up safely, what sort of chute can one
 use for rams with large horn racks?  I imagine if you measured Marley,
 the largest rack-ed ram, he's have 35-40 inches or so.

 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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Re: [Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in

2014-03-03 Thread Michael Smith

looks like our unaltered buddy is the last to go! He's interesting,
just because he has no horn scurs.  Again, with the cheap prices...

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4357829617.html

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 I have several ewes with small horns.

 Jann

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 28, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Sunny wspri...@goldstate.net wrote:

 Actually, it looks like the ewe has hornsoops!  In all my years with
 American Blckbellies, I did have one ram who had tiny scurs instead of horns
 but never a ewe with horns.

 Sunny Goodier
 Northern Caliofornia
 -Original Message-
 From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 3:02 PM
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info

 http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4352954708.html

 Not something you see every day. I have only ever seen American
 Blackbelly horned rams here in California. But everyone calls them
 Barbado because they are unaware of the difference between Barbado
 and American blackbelly.

 Here, appears to be actual, polled Barbado blackbelly sheep. Cannot
 vouch for the purity of their breeding. Just passing it along in case
 anyone local is interested.


 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies


 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:49:17 -0700
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in
California?
 Message-ID: 20140228184914.9775249...@diego.dreamhost.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

 It isn't uncommon for horned American Blackbelly stock to
 occasionally throw a polled ram. (Nor is it uncommon for polled
 Barbados Blackbelly sheep to plop out a ram lamb that grows scurs or
 horns.) But that doesn't make the polled ram a Barbados Blackbelly.
 Progeny testing using registered Barbados Blackbelly ewes will
 determine if that ram reliably produces polled ram lambs. In my
 experience, they do not.

 Also, the BBSAI's American Blackbelly registry and Barbados
 Blackbelly registry are both closed registries, meaning that in order
 to register sheep, their parents must both be registered. So whomever
 buys this lovely blackbelly family would be unable to register them.
 Judging from the white crown and tail on the lamb on the right, there
 is some evidence of cross-breeding already present. But for someone
 who simply wants to enjoy the benefits of raising the most beautiful
 sheep in the world with superb meat quality, this group would be a
 steal. I regularly sell my freezer lamb for $350 for a 90-lb ram
 lamb. $200 for four sheep is a good bargain.

 Carol


 At 11:18 AM 2/28/2014, you wrote:
 http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4352954708.html

 Here, appears to be actual, polled Barbado blackbelly sheep. Cannot
 vouch for the purity of their breeding. Just passing it along in case

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz



 --

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 **

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[Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in California?

2014-02-28 Thread Michael Smith

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4352954708.html

Not something you see every day. I have only ever seen American
Blackbelly horned rams here in California. But everyone calls them
Barbado because they are unaware of the difference between Barbado
and American blackbelly.

 Here, appears to be actual, polled Barbado blackbelly sheep. Cannot
vouch for the purity of their breeding. Just passing it along in case
anyone local is interested.


-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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Re: [Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in California?

2014-02-28 Thread Michael Smith

the Barbados as people call them here in California, are fairly plentiful as 
weed control and in my neighborhood of 1-10 acre semi-rural plots, there a few 
to a small flock on every street. i usually don't pay more than $80 for a fully 
grown animal, since there's no papers and/or control over breeding with other 
sheep.  some are mutly looking, others like some of mine, conform pretty well 
to the standard for ABB.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 28, 2014, at 4:47 PM, Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com 
 wrote:
 
 Yes, I think you're right. But $200 for a ram isn't bad, even if he's not 
 registerable, if you have a good market for lamb meat. He is a well-built guy 
 and should make good sons. We blackbelly breeders are fortunate that we raise 
 the best tasting meat available. Far superior to any other breed of sheep and 
 better than beef (IMO). There is a good niche market out there if you take 
 the time to develop it. You can get top dollar for your meat if you market it 
 to the people who care about quality--and who can afford to pay for it.
 
 Carol
 
 At 04:20 PM 2/28/2014, you wrote:
 It is hard to tell if it is the price for just the ram or for all four. When 
 I first read it I though they were selling just the ram.
 
 At 04:20 PM 2/28/2014, you wrote:
 But for someone who simply wants to enjoy the benefits of raising the most 
 beautiful sheep in the world with superb meat quality, this group would be a 
 steal. I regularly sell my freezer lamb for $350 for a 90-lb ram lamb. $200 
 for four sheep is a good bargain.
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in

2014-02-28 Thread Michael Smith


ahh well, i did not look closely at the ewes. was just very surprised to see a 
grown, developed and apparently, intact ram with no scurs, even.

 Even my weathered ABBs have pretty significant scurs, as well as most all my 
ewes.
 
Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 28, 2014, at 6:38 PM, Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 
 I have several ewes with small horns. 
 
 Jann
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Feb 28, 2014, at 5:36 PM, Sunny wspri...@goldstate.net wrote:
 
 Actually, it looks like the ewe has hornsoops!  In all my years with
 American Blckbellies, I did have one ram who had tiny scurs instead of horns
 but never a ewe with horns.
 
 Sunny Goodier 
 Northern Caliofornia
 -Original Message-
 From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 3:02 PM
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4352954708.html
 
 Not something you see every day. I have only ever seen American
 Blackbelly horned rams here in California. But everyone calls them
 Barbado because they are unaware of the difference between Barbado
 and American blackbelly.
 
 Here, appears to be actual, polled Barbado blackbelly sheep. Cannot
 vouch for the purity of their breeding. Just passing it along in case
 anyone local is interested.
 
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:49:17 -0700
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Actual Barbados Ram and ewes for sale in
   California?
 Message-ID: 20140228184914.9775249...@diego.dreamhost.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
 
 It isn't uncommon for horned American Blackbelly stock to 
 occasionally throw a polled ram. (Nor is it uncommon for polled 
 Barbados Blackbelly sheep to plop out a ram lamb that grows scurs or 
 horns.) But that doesn't make the polled ram a Barbados Blackbelly. 
 Progeny testing using registered Barbados Blackbelly ewes will 
 determine if that ram reliably produces polled ram lambs. In my 
 experience, they do not.
 
 Also, the BBSAI's American Blackbelly registry and Barbados 
 Blackbelly registry are both closed registries, meaning that in order 
 to register sheep, their parents must both be registered. So whomever 
 buys this lovely blackbelly family would be unable to register them. 
 Judging from the white crown and tail on the lamb on the right, there 
 is some evidence of cross-breeding already present. But for someone 
 who simply wants to enjoy the benefits of raising the most beautiful 
 sheep in the world with superb meat quality, this group would be a 
 steal. I regularly sell my freezer lamb for $350 for a 90-lb ram 
 lamb. $200 for four sheep is a good bargain.
 
 Carol
 
 
 At 11:18 AM 2/28/2014, you wrote:
 http://sacramento.craigslist.org/grd/4352954708.html
 
 Here, appears to be actual, polled Barbado blackbelly sheep. Cannot
 vouch for the purity of their breeding. Just passing it along in case
 
 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz
 
 
 
 --
 
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 Visit this list's home page at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info/
 
 
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 **
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Head wound

2014-01-25 Thread Michael Smith

Yeah I'm going to get out there with a long extension cord and sawzall those 
off and angle grind the edges. There's several of them.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 24, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Mastiff Ranches mastiffranc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:01 PM, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
 wrote:
 
 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

 http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
 
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
  1. Ram with large head wound (Michael Smith)
 --
 My best guess would be that hinge pin. He probably took a run at that post.
 Message: 1
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Head wound

2014-01-25 Thread Michael Smith

So those large fence bolt studs have been sawed real short and sanded for rough 
edges. Well see if that stops it.

Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

 On Jan 24, 2014, at 5:06 PM, Mastiff Ranches mastiffranc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 On Jan 24, 2014, at 4:01 PM, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
 wrote:
 
 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to
blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit

 http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
 
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
  1. Ram with large head wound (Michael Smith)
 --
 My best guess would be that hinge pin. He probably took a run at that post.
 Message: 1
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Ram with large head wound

2014-01-25 Thread Michael Smith

Thats a great idea! I'll look into it. There is a very large local construction 
job where they sweep the street every day and I'm sure they must have something 
to throw away

Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

 On Jan 24, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Tiana Franklin tian...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi Michael,
 I'm sorry to see Harpo is having problems. Hopefully you can figure out
 what he is doing to cause the wound. I thought I would let you know what I
 have done to help keep my ram from scratching on fence posts and other
 things. I called my local street swiping company and asked them to save me
 a couple of there old used brushes then I just put them on a post in the
 field. My ram absolutely loves them. The bristles are tough so he can
 really rub his horns all over and get a good scratch. Since installing
 these last year I have not seen using anything other than them.
 
 Tiana
 
 
 On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Michael Smith 
 mwsmotorspo...@gmail.comwrote:
 
 is he scraping his head on the wood posts? He had a smaller wound in
 the same place a couple weeks ago and it had started healing. The
 other rams often get a small scraed off area with no hair on the back
 of their heads in the same place, but nothing this severe.
 
 
 http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/HarpoHeadWound/36261505_2tbbsv#!i=3039888936k=2sXXdFM
 
 I have a few of these fence studs that stick out (pictured), but they
 show no signs of rubbing. Still covered with rust and no signs of hair
 or even, being polished down.
 
 the concrete pile could be a culprit, but honestly, they hate it and I
 never see them spend any time there. I looked it over and saw no real
 signs of rubbing.
 
 hoping the local birds have not found a taste for sheep flesh, like
 some nasty parrot breeds have been known to do.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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 -- 
 Tiana Franklin
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[Blackbelly] Ram with large head wound

2014-01-24 Thread Michael Smith

is he scraping his head on the wood posts? He had a smaller wound in
the same place a couple weeks ago and it had started healing. The
other rams often get a small scraed off area with no hair on the back
of their heads in the same place, but nothing this severe.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/HarpoHeadWound/36261505_2tbbsv#!i=3039888936k=2sXXdFM

I have a few of these fence studs that stick out (pictured), but they
show no signs of rubbing. Still covered with rust and no signs of hair
or even, being polished down.

the concrete pile could be a culprit, but honestly, they hate it and I
never see them spend any time there. I looked it over and saw no real
signs of rubbing.

hoping the local birds have not found a taste for sheep flesh, like
some nasty parrot breeds have been known to do.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

2014-01-08 Thread Michael Smith

Wow, Mark, love the analysis!

So, Harpo. The big guy doing well in the fight, is lowest on the totem.
Groucho, his helper, the peacemaker, is second lowest. They are also the
youngest, as shown in this video. On this day, when they were 4 months old,
their place in the caste was set.

http://videos.smugmug.com/i/Animals/ramgraduation/i-8nVGQQV/0/SMIL/CIMG2174-SMIL.smil/master.m3u8

There, you can see a younger Ziggy with shorter horns, and the two older ones,
Marley and Verne.

In fact, when Verne, who was second in command, came back from breeding those
two young boys-- Groucho and Harpo in the video a few years ago-- a young Ziggy
ousted him in a similar battle, and has been second in command since then.

Ziggy is Marleys lieutenant now, and Marley runs the show. Marley has the long
horns.

Ziggy even helped Marley fend rams off when Marley was stuck in the fence.
Don't worry I just snapped this picture really quick and untangled him.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/MarleyStuckHorn/17655266_xrJN4K#!i=1346186217k=gvFzDrs

Interesting to think that Marley did not bother fighting with Harpo coming back
in to the community and let Ziggy try to do his work.

Glad I could post the video, makes a nice preamble to lambing season. We are
due beginning of May. Only bred two ewes, my two favorites.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2014, at 4:56 AM, Mark Wintermute winterm...@earthlink.net
wrote:

Good video Michael. The video shows just how powerful rams really are.
Also shows why I refuse to keep any ram whose sole purpose in life is to
kill me!

I am not sure if everybody saw the video correctly but the third ram that
joined in was acting as peace maker. He was not being aggressive. I do not
know what transpired between the two aggressive rams but the third one was
convinced that the one in the corner started it and needed to just stop. If
the third ram was backing off as far as the aggressive ram and hitting
equally hard then they have created an alliance. The two on one scenario is
almost always against a dominant ram that the other two cannot beat
individually. I have only had that two on one situation once. I eliminated
one of the two teamed up rams and the whole group of rams was better for it.

I run a large bunch of rams together which currently is around 20 rams.
They are the most enjoyable group of sheep I have. They come up to say hi
and get a good rub (anywhere but the head). I do not worry about being hit.
I am able to walk anywhere with them without a stick or fear of getting hit.
If anyone tries to hurt me they go to the freezer without appeal. I have
senior, junior and freshman (lambs) in my group. There is a pecking order
which continually changes. There is a ram code of ethics in this bachelor
group. The occasional very hard head butt is something they like to savor.
They will hit and stand next to each other and you can just see them
thinking Man that was a good one!. Then they look at each other and do it
again. But even though they are hitting hard it is just recreation and
always head to head. There will be no peace maker involved in this
situation. A cheap shot (and deadly kill hit) is a hit to the ribs. This
violates the rams code of ethics. Any ram in my group that does this will
immediately be put in his place by the entire group of rams. No hitting the
ribs is a ram law. It is very common for the peace maker ram to step
between rams that are fighting exposing his ribs to both aggressor rams.
The aggressors will try to go around him but the peace maker will just keep
spoiling the fight till it stops. Or like in the video the peace maker
makes it to difficult for the ram that usually started the fight to continue
to fight. Just like us humans there are some rams that have no code of
ethics. If you have a ram that T-bones others in the ribs put them in the
freezer (they taste just fine).

OK you introduce ewes and there are no more rules. Rams will fight and
possibly to the death. There should be no common fence between them or you
will not have a fence anymore. If you get into a pen you must keep an eye
on the ram. They are not your friend until the girls are gone and they are
back home in their bachelor group.

Good video.

Mark Wintermute

-Original Message-
From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
[mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael
Smith
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 8:59 PM
To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Cc: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

No deaths yet, but this time around I was not too sure if I might not see
one. Glad I did not. I've only been at this since 2008.

As some of the other herders have told me offline, a cheap shot to the ribs
might be more likely than actually breaking

Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

2014-01-08 Thread Michael Smith

Thanks. I might be ready to cull some rams if I have some particularly good 
lambs this year. Actually hoping for ewes. Had all boys last time. 

Don't see a link. Did the link get stripped off?

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 7, 2014, at 5:22 PM, Mastiff Ranches mastiffranc...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 You have some nice looking rams Michael. We may have to talk when I'm ready 
 to bring in some new blood. Here is a link to a couple of my boys going at 
 it. The ChallengerOn Jan 7, 2014, at 4:01 PM, 
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info wrote:
 
 
 End of Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1
 *
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

2014-01-07 Thread Michael Smith

Well, I tried just one and he was lonely all the time. Calling to me and 
banging on fences. I thought that was way more cruel than dying at the hand of 
another ram. Can't keep him with the ewes, I'd have lambs all the time, and 
they'd all have the same father. So I then had two rams together. They sure 
enjoyed each other's company. But, it's a pecking order thing. Half the time 
they move from one pasture another, and have to re-establish pecking with a few 
hard butts on a daily basis. So, two would at least fight some times. 

Some of the other more experience sheep herders can chime in on this one, I'm 
sure. 

Now that I have 5 total, again, they enjoy each other's company and fight very 
little, overall.  My 
last round of lambs was 5 rams, no ewes! I did wether 3 of them, only kept 2. 

I hope I did not alarm folks too much, but the video was more to show an 
opportunity I don't often get a chance to get close to and shoot very well.  I 
mean the light was good and I was right on top of them. Happened to be mowing 
and saw the action, dropped everything and ran over with my phone. 

As for horns, since they are not for sale, the only value is to me. And I do 
love their horn growth. I have also found, knowing their parents, that parents 
don't always dictate how the horns will come out, so it's still a crapshoot.  
Marley has magnificent horns. Ziggy, his son, has the weakest, even after 
several years. The two 3-year olds passed his amount of curl after only 2 years 
or so. 

My main criteria as far as value for breeding was decided in favor of Harpo, 
who has good (but small and tightly curled) horns, good parents, but the best 
mane and hair of all of them. He looks like a rock star. Also has a trait of a 
black teardrop by the edge of each eye that not all my sheep have. I am trying 
to encourage that trait, since I like the looks of it. 

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 7, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Two questions, Michael: do you really have to keep so many rams together?  It 
 seems like sure, eventual death for the weakest of them.  Secondly, they all 
 have beautiful, double-curled horns. I don't see that very often so wonder if 
 you find them to be more valuable?
 
 
 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA 
 
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:17:55 -0800
 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video
 Message-ID:
 CAHiKykiXOhwGDHu=jeejk_joqgc1awllcoeykh+to_1don_...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
 I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of
 you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close
 before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice
 as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of my rams fight
 like this.
 
 Ultimately, neither was harmed.
 
 The description of what is happening and why, is in the video caption.
 
 -Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 http://youtu.be/fnAw_zVofm8
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

2014-01-07 Thread Michael Smith

No deaths yet, but this time around I was not too sure if I might not see one. 
Glad I did not. I've only been at this since 2008. 

 As some of the other herders have told me offline, a cheap shot to the ribs 
might be more 
likely than actually breaking a neck. And a broken rib can really devastate a 
sheep.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 7, 2014, at 3:35 PM, Mike Hummel m...@soggytopfarm.com wrote:
 
  Along with Rick's question have they ever killed/injured each other? Or like 
 chickens is it more of a pecking order issue?
 
 
 On 1/7/2014 6:19 PM, Rick Krach wrote:
 Two questions, Michael: do you really have to keep so many rams together?  
 It seems like sure, eventual death for the weakest of them.  Secondly, they 
 all have beautiful, double-curled horns. I don't see that very often so 
 wonder if you find them to be more valuable?
 
 
 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:17:55 -0800
 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video
 Message-ID:
 CAHiKykiXOhwGDHu=jeejk_joqgc1awllcoeykh+to_1don_...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
 I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of
 you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close
 before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice
 as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of my rams fight
 like this.
 
 Ultimately, neither was harmed.
 
 The description of what is happening and why, is in the video caption.
 
 -Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 http://youtu.be/fnAw_zVofm8
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Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 10, Issue 1

2014-01-07 Thread Michael Smith

Over thing occurred to me, the folks who don't have multiple rams may not know 
this: 

This is a very rare occurrence. A battle like this happens maybe once a year, 
or when I remove a ram for breeding then put him back. Otherwise, they sit 
around, eat and chew cud, and sniff and connoodle with each other all day long. 
That's why most of them have their manes rubbed off. 

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 7, 2014, at 4:04 PM, Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 
 Where is the video?  I seem to have missed it :-(
 
 Jann
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jan 7, 2014, at 4:19 PM, Rick Krach rickkr...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Two questions, Michael: do you really have to keep so many rams together?  
 It seems like sure, eventual death for the weakest of them.  Secondly, they 
 all have beautiful, double-curled horns. I don't see that very often so 
 wonder if you find them to be more valuable?
 
 
 Rick Krach
 in Auburn, CA 
 
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 18:17:55 -0800
 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video
 Message-ID:
 CAHiKykiXOhwGDHu=jeejk_joqgc1awllcoeykh+to_1don_...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
 I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of
 you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close
 before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice
 as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of my rams fight
 like this.
 
 Ultimately, neither was harmed.
 
 The description of what is happening and why, is in the video caption.
 
 -Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 http://youtu.be/fnAw_zVofm8
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[Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video

2014-01-06 Thread Michael Smith

I'm posting a link to this video I happened to capture, for those of
you who don't have multiple rams and have not seen this up close
before. While it is awe-inspiring to watch, you can tell by my voice
as I record it, I take no pleasure in watching two of my rams fight
like this.

Ultimately, neither was harmed.

The description of what is happening and why, is in the video caption.

-Michael Smith, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

http://youtu.be/fnAw_zVofm8
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Re: [Blackbelly] ABB Rams fighting video

2014-01-06 Thread Michael Smith

Glad you liked the video. Be careful with your bottle ram. Not sure how old he 
is, but Marley, the one watching from the side, with the long horns, is a 
bottle ram and would just as soon kill me if he had the chance. He'll take a 
full charge like these two in the video, but at me!

Harpo, the aggressor was working over the second in command. As I mentioned on 
the caption of the video, I'm not sure yet if he moved rank or not. 

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

 On Jan 6, 2014, at 6:45 PM, R. Natasha Baronas meadowskuv...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Wow! Great video!  I only have one adult ram and he occasionally takes a 
 cheap run at me.  He's a bottle baby and all I have to do is take his collar 
 and its over.  Such power and force with your rams.  I can't believe how the 
 one fella got knocked over like that!  You must've felt helpless watching.  
 I'm glad no one got hurt.  Does this make the aggressor top ram now?
 
 Thanks for the video,
 
 Natasha
 British Columbia, Canada 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 
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[Blackbelly] Breeding Comedy Show

2013-12-04 Thread Michael Smith

So, I have 4 acres with many many separate pastures with gates and
enclosures. I spent the morning first separating out the two ewes,
pasture by pasture (I don't have a chute system yet). I wanted to pair
these girls with Harpo an inexperienced but beautiful ram. They went
into a pasture right next door to the rams, which were already
fighting over them, and the girls were demonstrating the fact they
appeared to be in heat.

Mind you, I am doing this all by myself this morning.

I have 5 intact rams, but they are actually not too difficult to
separate out. There was a narrow 8' wide by about 30' long run between
the ewe's pasture and the ram's pasture, and it had some fresh green
grass in it that looked real good to eat.  I set up the gate to allow
all the rams into the run, through the gate, one at a time, and simply
not allowing Harpo in. It worked-- since he's timid-- and was the last
one trying to follow in. I then lazily threw a chain around a post,
thinking the gate would stay closed juust long enough to chase
Harpo in through a small shaded gate under a shed roof, and he'd go in
with the girls. I forgot the famous findings of Temple Grandin and how
herd animals don't like to enter shaded, scary looking places.

Then things went wrong and I wish I had a camera, since it would have
a good Darwin Award Video, with me starring as the Village Idiot.

Harpo is being scared of where I am trying to force him to go, so he's
running everywhere through a pasture but not through the dark opening
to the girl's pasture.  Meanwhile, the other rams start banging
against the run gate, and two other rams bang the gate loose, they're
no fools, and instantly run in through the shaded opening, in with the
ewes. They start mounting away, as I have to secure the run gate to
keep the rest of the rams from escaping... I am cussing my head off,
realizing my selective breeding program has probably just been
spoiled, if the girls are really fully in heat. It takes about a
minute to really chain the gate well, and these guys are wasting no
time.

I manage to grab a more tame one, Ziggy, almost instantly, and drag
him back with the rest of the guys, cussing all the while. The other,
Verne, is working the girls over and staying with them as they run all
over the place, mounting them every time they will stay still in
between chases by me. I could only imagine he knew he was on borrowed
time :-)

I end up having to close everything, let the rams back out of the long
run into their pasture, and re-set the gates to use the long run as a
trap on my side instead, and run Verne and the girls into the long
narrow run so I can separate them. It works fairly easily.

At this point, I am glad I have experience with a crook. Since he
little place to run, I crook him handily and end up picking him up and
just dumping him over the fence into the ram pasture again. Good thing
he's the smaller of the rams!

Chase the girls out of the run, start the whole process over. Close
off the gates to favor the ram side again. Rams still easily walk into
the long run one by one, cut off Harpo again, but this time, I use
BrainPower and bother to stop and chain everything up well.

I guess if they lamb in 150 days to the day, I'll know there's no idea
who the father is, but if they take a week or more than the normal
period, it's a good chance Harpo is the father. The other two are
plenty good sires, but they are not Harpo.

The learning question here is: besides me being daft and
underestimating Harpo's reluctance to go into a shaded, strange
area--and not chaining things up safely, what sort of chute can one
use for rams with large horn racks?  I imagine if you measured Marley,
the largest rack-ed ram, he's have 35-40 inches or so.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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Re: [Blackbelly] New to list

2013-11-24 Thread Michael Smith

BTW: keep an eye on your emails in Jan-April. This list lights up with all 
sorts of lambing stories and issues. If you have been keeping rams with your 
ewes, you'll likely have some too...

-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Nov 22, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 
 Thanks Mike and Michael :-)
 
 Jann
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Nov 22, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Mike Hummel m...@soggytopfarm.com wrote:
 
 Hi Jann, and welcome.
 
 Here is some of the best advice you will get, at least IMHO.  Go to a sheep 
 equipment supply website and find a  sheep sorting gate.  Build a chute, 
 sorting gate on one end some other gate on the other.
 Life becomes far more simple.
 
 Mike
 
 
 On 11/22/2013 3:24 PM, mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 Hi List
 
 I am new to the list and new to sheep husbandry. I just got (arrived on 
 Wed) a small flock of ten American Blackbelly Sheep and I live in Fountain, 
 CO.
 
 I look forward to learning a lot about my new flock of sheep. I spent the 
 morning separating my young rams from the main flock and found that there 
 is a lot I don't know. I thought I would share my thoughts on some of it. I 
 bet you have all been at this point and can appreciate my position. Any and 
 all input or suggestions are more than welcome :-)
 
 
 Things I didn't know -
 
 Lesson #1 When one sheep runs, they all run.
 Lesson #2 Calm quiet sheep in a small confined area, all getting along 
 well, suddenly become independent testosterone filled hellions once 
 liberated.
 Lesson #3  When not confined, boy sheep fight. With everyone. And if it 
 isn't enough to fight with the other boys and the girls a wooden box will 
 do just fine.
 Lesson#4 It is not easy to separate sheep. I have a new admiration for 
 sheep dogs.
 Lesson #5 No makeshift barrier is too tough for a sheep to tear down if he 
 is determined enough.
 Lesson #6 See lesson #1.  It is the true meaning of life.
 Lesson #7 If one sheep comes, they all come.
 Lesson #8 One person is almost too few to separate 3 sheep from the flock.
 Lesson #9  A portable panel is worth two humans.
 Lesson #10 I can out-muscle three young rams, but not by much.
 Lesson #11 Sometimes an open door is much scarier than being squished in a 
 very small space.
 Lesson #12 When sheep are really worried, they lie down.
 Lesson #13 I cannot move a reclining sheep.
 Lesson #14 In retrospect I now understand why shepherds have crooks.
 Lesson #15 Patience is a virtue.
 lesson #16 It takes about two hours to separate three rams from the flock 
 of 10 and get them into a stall on the other side of the barn.
 Lesson #17 This is still easier than the Yaks!
 Lesson #18 I need a really good breakfast. I think lamb chops are on the 
 menu.
 
 Jann
 
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] New to list

2013-11-22 Thread Michael Smith

Hi Jann, and welcome to the list. 

Being a city slicker new to animal husbandry myself, and now, a shepherd since 
2008, I can relate. This mailing list is a god-send to me and my ABBs. 

I second the notion of using a portable panel. I have a thin plywood 4x8 panel 
with handles screwed into it that I use as a moveable wall to slowly work the 
sheep I want into a corner and then clamp them. Especially handy for separating 
babies from moms and the crazy ones from a half-tame flock. We now have 14 
sheep and 3 goats. 

Since I started I have had three rounds of lambs, one round of bottle babies I 
wanted to raise that way, and a flying ewe right in the face. Had to drain a 
goofball sized cyst on a ewe lately (ate a foxtail that went into her cheek).  
Buried my favorite ewe this year due to a coyote attack. Still enjoying my 
sheep and looking forward to possibly exposing some girls to one of my rams in 
December for some April lambs.

All these experiences were shared with the group and I received the best of 
expert advice when needed. 

I have even devoted quite a bit of time to developing a walk-behind sickle 
mower that actually can harvest really tall hay, since we are blessed with some 
really great silage growing on our small 4-acre place in Northern California.


-MIchael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

 On Nov 22, 2013, at 12:24 PM, mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:
 
 Hi List
 
 I am new to the list and new to sheep husbandry. I just got (arrived on Wed) 
 a small flock of ten American Blackbelly Sheep and I live in Fountain, CO.
 
 I look forward to learning a lot about my new flock of sheep. I spent the 
 morning separating my young rams from the main flock and found that there is 
 a lot I don't know. I thought I would share my thoughts on some of it. I bet 
 you have all been at this point and can appreciate my position. Any and all 
 input or suggestions are more than welcome :-)
 
 
 Things I didn't know -
 
 Lesson #1 When one sheep runs, they all run.
 Lesson #2 Calm quiet sheep in a small confined area, all getting along well, 
 suddenly become independent testosterone filled hellions once liberated.
 Lesson #3  When not confined, boy sheep fight. With everyone. And if it isn't 
 enough to fight with the other boys and the girls a wooden box will do just 
 fine.
 Lesson#4 It is not easy to separate sheep. I have a new admiration for sheep 
 dogs.
 Lesson #5 No makeshift barrier is too tough for a sheep to tear down if he is 
 determined enough.
 Lesson #6 See lesson #1.  It is the true meaning of life.
 Lesson #7 If one sheep comes, they all come.
 Lesson #8 One person is almost too few to separate 3 sheep from the flock.
 Lesson #9  A portable panel is worth two humans.
 Lesson #10 I can out-muscle three young rams, but not by much.
 Lesson #11 Sometimes an open door is much scarier than being squished in a 
 very small space.
 Lesson #12 When sheep are really worried, they lie down.
 Lesson #13 I cannot move a reclining sheep.
 Lesson #14 In retrospect I now understand why shepherds have crooks.
 Lesson #15 Patience is a virtue.
 lesson #16 It takes about two hours to separate three rams from the flock of 
 10 and get them into a stall on the other side of the barn.
 Lesson #17 This is still easier than the Yaks!
 Lesson #18 I need a really good breakfast. I think lamb chops are on the menu.
 
 Jann
 
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Tumbleweeds

2013-11-22 Thread Michael Smith

My sheep and Pygmy goats eat thistle once it's dried-- down to the nub. Also
rose branches from the garden.

-MIchael, Perino Ranch blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 22, 2013, at 2:31 PM, Jann Bach mtnrdgr...@aol.com wrote:

Yes, they are horrible stickery things. There were a couple in the corral
when I first unloaded the sheep and they immediately ate them even though
they had plenty to eat in the trailer. I watched and then offered them a few
more which they greedily devoured. I finally stopped giving them to the sheep
as they were gobbling down every one I gave them.

They could be priceless if this is the only flock of tumbleweed eating sheep
in existence. I wanted to make sure it was ok for the sheep before giving
them any more. They seem to prefer them over their hay and even their grain.
I currently have a very generous supply of timbleweeds.

Jann
Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 22, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote:

Here in Colorado, tumbleweeds are primarily Russian thistle. My sheep don't
particularly like Russian thistle while it is still growing, except maybe
when it first sprouts and is still tender. As tumbleweeds, it is stickery
and not something they would eat. I'm surprised your sheep like them. Maybe
you could hire them out:
Eastern Colorado was overrun with tumbleweeds last week, making national
news. See
http://www.krdo.com/news/troublesome-tumbleweeds-cleanup/-/417220/23023000/-/epspacz/-/index.html
No one knows what to do with the tumbleweeds. Sounds like your sheep would
solve the problem!

Carol

At 01:26 PM 11/22/2013, you wrote:
I have a question for the list. My new sheep love tumbleweeds. Is that ok
for them to eat?

Carol Elkins
Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
(no shear, no dock, no fuss)
Pueblo, Colorado
http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Marley's Horn Growth

2013-10-08 Thread Michael Smith

well, what is pure ABB, anyway?

but I agree, he'd make a great trophy. As for his heritage, his markings are 
more troublesome to me than his horns.  There's no pictures of it, but when he 
sheds, he has almost no black necktie. Only gets that marking when his ruff 
grows out. also has very small eyebrows. And his coat is not that red, more 
tan. Other than that he has a fine black belly, and no white sock markings or 
white blotches anywhere.

I've thought about calling the Texas hunting ranches to get some Mouflon, but 
they are pricey.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 8, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Mike Hummel m...@soggytopfarm.com wrote:

 What a set of horns, makes me wonder if he is pure ABB.  If you want to find 
 out what is worth, contact one of the many game preserves.  They will pay you 
 big bucks to let some city slicker shoot him.
 
 On 10/7/2013 9:19 PM, Michael Smith wrote:
 (trying this again in plain text format)
 
 Anyone else got any recent pictures?
 
 My ABB Marley, the freebie ram who started it all for me. He came from
 a goat breeder who got him from a vet as a bottle baby, and had no
 idea what to do with him, so I got him for free.  Born Feb 2008.
 
  He does not have the best markings of any of my 5 intact rams, but
 man, he has the horns!  Every time I take my eye off him, those horns
 seem to have grown more. I've had one intact son and one grandson from
 him and their horn spread is not nearly as wide as his. They might
 have a good amount of total curl, but not a wide spread rack like his.
 He has two other grandsons who had weak ABB markings that are
 weathers.
 
 http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/rams2013/32364864_kz9mSW#!i=2817598743k=2zCmvtG
 
 enjoy
 
 normally, I might consider taxidermy to be a morbid way to keep an old
 pet, but in his case, I might make an exception.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] The noble Marley

2013-10-08 Thread Michael Smith

I was talking about when he dies. That part was not clear--now that I re-read 
it. He's my pet and will live his life out naturally on my ranch.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 8, 2013, at 5:04 PM, Erik Christy echri...@peak.org wrote:

 I'm surprised and saddened the hear talk of executing this noble creature 
 rather than continuing to admire and respect him for what he has given and 
 the beautiful stature he presents to all who see him.  Is this how we repay 
 elegance?
 
 
 
 normally, I might consider taxidermy to be a morbid way to keep an old
 pet, but in his case, I might make an exception.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
 
 
 --
 ***
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Marley's Horn Growth

2013-10-08 Thread Michael Smith

I agree, Mike. Those pictures show a good example of the same configuration of 
horns. Interesting.  Is it just me, or does the guy with the revolver and iron 
sights look like he might have hunted his ram from maybe, what?... 30 yards? 
Hardly seems sporting.

Question: how does one measure horns? from the side: tip to tip? or do they 
start a tape measure at the forehoead and follow the length around the outside 
of the curl for overall length?


-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 8, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Mike Hummel m...@soggytopfarm.com wrote:

 I
 http://www.texashuntlodge.com/black_hawaiian_sheep_hunt_package.asp
 
 cid:part1.07060102.06090205@soggytopfarm.com
 On 10/8/2013 10:54 AM, Michael Smith wrote:
 well, what is pure ABB, anyway?
 
 but I agree, he'd make a great trophy. As for his heritage, his markings are 
 more troublesome to me than his horns.  There's no pictures of it, but when 
 he sheds, he has almost no black necktie. Only gets that marking when his 
 ruff grows out. also has very small eyebrows. And his coat is not that red, 
 more tan. Other than that he has a fine black belly, and no white sock 
 markings or white blotches anywhere.
 
 I've thought about calling the Texas hunting ranches to get some Mouflon, 
 but they are pricey.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Oct 8, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Mike Hummel m...@soggytopfarm.com wrote:
 
 What a set of horns, makes me wonder if he is pure ABB.  If you want to 
 find out what is worth, contact one of the many game preserves.  They will 
 pay you big bucks to let some city slicker shoot him.
 
 On 10/7/2013 9:19 PM, Michael Smith wrote:
 (trying this again in plain text format)
 
 Anyone else got any recent pictures?
 
 My ABB Marley, the freebie ram who started it all for me. He came from
 a goat breeder who got him from a vet as a bottle baby, and had no
 idea what to do with him, so I got him for free.  Born Feb 2008.
 
  He does not have the best markings of any of my 5 intact rams, but
 man, he has the horns!  Every time I take my eye off him, those horns
 seem to have grown more. I've had one intact son and one grandson from
 him and their horn spread is not nearly as wide as his. They might
 have a good amount of total curl, but not a wide spread rack like his.
 He has two other grandsons who had weak ABB markings that are
 weathers.
 
 http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/rams2013/32364864_kz9mSW#!i=2817598743k=2zCmvtG
 
 enjoy
 
 normally, I might consider taxidermy to be a morbid way to keep an old
 pet, but in his case, I might make an exception.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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[Blackbelly] Marley's Horn Growth

2013-10-07 Thread Michael Smith

(trying this again in plain text format)

Anyone else got any recent pictures?

My ABB Marley, the freebie ram who started it all for me. He came from
a goat breeder who got him from a vet as a bottle baby, and had no
idea what to do with him, so I got him for free.  Born Feb 2008.

 He does not have the best markings of any of my 5 intact rams, but
man, he has the horns!  Every time I take my eye off him, those horns
seem to have grown more. I've had one intact son and one grandson from
him and their horn spread is not nearly as wide as his. They might
have a good amount of total curl, but not a wide spread rack like his.
He has two other grandsons who had weak ABB markings that are
weathers.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/rams2013/32364864_kz9mSW#!i=2817598743k=2zCmvtG

enjoy

normally, I might consider taxidermy to be a morbid way to keep an old
pet, but in his case, I might make an exception.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

2013-06-08 Thread Michael Smith

I have a pasture with only horned intact AB rams. Do they really need a guard 
animal the way the ewes and Pygmy goats do?

Michael W. Smith

On Jun 6, 2013, at 6:50 PM, rodnas...@gmail.com rodnas...@gmail.com wrote:

 Carol this is Rod from Texas,
 The way I keep my black belly sheep safe because I have coyotes and silver 
 foxes. I got me and Jerusalem donkey guard donkey that is. Ever since then I 
 have not lost one Lamb, Ram, or ewe. It eats the same thing my sheep eat. You 
 can't separate him from my sheep he gets mad starts Bellari. It was the best 
 hundred dollar investment I ever made.
 
 
 LLRB
 HotRod 3% 
 IV Corps TX
 ICVMC
 
 
 - Reply message -
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
 Date: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:35 pm
 
 
 Michael, in 2008 I had a cougar AND a pack of coyotes kill and eat 
 five 90-lb ram lambs in one night. All that was left when I found 
 them the next morning were rib cages, five stomachs (drug away from 
 the carcasses), and a few testicles. The cat had gone over the fence; 
 the coyotes dug under. During the two months that I waited to get a 
 couple of guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees/Anatolian crosses), I lived 
 under siege and patrolled the pastures a couple of times every night 
 with a shotgun.
 
 The cat came back two weeks later (apparently that is their regular 
 revisiting interval) and killed one of my ewe lambs. I interrupted 
 her at 2AM and watched her jump a 6-ft chainlink fence. She didn't 
 climb up it; she jumped it. I had 4-ft field fencing around all of my 
 paddocks. It stopped nothing until I ran a strand of electric wire 
 along the top. I also put railroad ties along the bottom, inside the 
 fence to discourage digging. And during that time, I also locked the 
 sheep behind bars at night; every opening to their sheds had hog 
 panel wired across it.
 
 The minute the guardian dogs arrived, the terror stopped. I've slept 
 well every night since them. Because you live in a populated 
 neighborhood, LGDs can create problems with their barking, so that 
 may not be an option for you, although you mentioned a dog sleeping 
 with the sheep. Perhaps get another dog or a better dog? If the dog 
 makes its presence known, generally the predators will stay away 
 because the risk of their being injured is too great.
 
  I know how if feels to discover the remains of your flock without 
 having heard a peep in the night. I'm sorry that happened to you.
 
 Carol
 
 At 11:17 PM 6/4/2013, you wrote:
 Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was
 dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine
 any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again,
 there appeared to be no blood on it at all.
 
 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

2013-06-08 Thread Michael Smith

This might back up the info I have heard regarding a large ruminant
guard animal. Have only one. It is then forced to bond with the flock.
Some people think having two or three donkeys or llamas will cause
them to herd together and ignore the flock.

But my goat breeder lady I spoke of has several llamas. Not sure if
she is just plain lucky so far...

Thanks for the feedback on the horned rams.   h, more to think about.

also, I am thinking of buying a wildlife/scouting night camera. They
can get pricey, but I think I'll know what I need to know for $150 or
less.

_MWS

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 5:01 PM,  elaine_wil...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hi Michael,

 We have had llamas for the last 3 years and they have done next to nothing
 to deter the coyotes. We currently have two gelding llamas in a bachelor ram
 pen, 3 rams, there were four rams but coyotes got in last August and killed
 and completely ate one of them. Full grown, very healthy ram. The coyotes
 have gotten smart as far as attacking the rams, they grab them from behind
 because they must have learned it hurts if they attack the rams from the
 front - getting head-butted. We also acquired 2 female donkeys in December,
 a pregnant female and her yearling daughter. The yearling went after the new
 lambs and also attacked two of the yearling lambs. The yearling ram that she
 had down ended up dying from his internal injuries about a week later. The
 pregnant female donkey had her baby about 7 weeks ago and we want to put the
 newbie and her mom in the pen that has experienced the most attacks. Being
 raised with the livestock makes them less likely to treat them as some kind
 of a threat. Have also been told, and fully believe, that regardless if you
 go with llama (females are the best guardians, gelded males next, intact
 males aren't good) or donkey (again, females are better than males) you
 should go with a single animal. They are herd animals too, so if you have
 more than one of their species they will want to stick together rather than
 protect the sheep. Solo, they are forced to consider the sheep as their
 herd.

 Carol, I had a problem with mountain lion (cougar) last year and in doing
 tons of research found that the only real fencing that will keep them out
 needs to be at least 10 feet high. In hindsight, we are wondering if that is
 what came in at the end of January last year and killed and completely ate
 four of our adult rams in one night, all in the same bachelor pen.
 Picked-clean skeletons and almost no fur left.  Thought coyotes, but after
 discussing with several trappers and hunters they are leaning toward
 mountain lion on that one. Hadn't considered mountain lion problem at that
 point in time. Physically saw one last June at 1:00 in the afternoon trying
 to cull one of the sheep for its victim. It cleared our five-foot fence
 without a problem.

 We now lock up all of our sheep every night, chickens too, in pens within
 the pens and have had no night kills. Unfortunately the coyotes have figured
 this out and they come in for day kills. Had a week-old lamb kidnapped from
 the pasture, in the trees, Friday. Also, our sheep don't always hang out
 together, they'll break up into smaller groups during the day, so I guess
 we'll see how effective the donkey(s) will be. They can't stay with
 everyone, especially if there are 3 or 4 groups out there.

 Sounds like a single donkey would be your best bet. Look for one that
 already has the guarding concept down, or get a very young one and pen up
 her and the sheep next to each other (fence between them) for about two
 weeks so she understands that these are her new friends.

 Good luck!

 Elaine
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

2013-06-07 Thread Michael Smith

OK great Rod! this was my next question.  No barking, and no jumping
on my 2-year old kid or even acting protective and aggressive (but I
suppose accidental stomping and/or kicking is a serious
consideration).

was going to ask how people do with Llamas or donkeys?  My goat
breeder who is right smack next to the hills in cougar country, has
not had one hit. Her fencing has way less integrity than mine, but she
has always had at least 1 Llama. Now has 3 or 4.

I have heard a female is better than a male to prevent the male from
pestering the animals. But what about a gelded donkey or llama?

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 6:50 PM, rodnas...@gmail.com rodnas...@gmail.com wrote:
 Carol this is Rod from Texas,
 The way I keep my black belly sheep safe because I have coyotes and silver 
 foxes. I got me and Jerusalem donkey guard donkey that is. Ever since then I 
 have not lost one Lamb, Ram, or ewe. It eats the same thing my sheep eat. You 
 can't separate him from my sheep he gets mad starts Bellari. It was the best 
 hundred dollar investment I ever made.


 LLRB
 HotRod 3%
 IV Corps TX
  ICVMC


 - Reply message -
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
 Date: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:35 pm


 Michael, in 2008 I had a cougar AND a pack of coyotes kill and eat
 five 90-lb ram lambs in one night. All that was left when I found
 them the next morning were rib cages, five stomachs (drug away from
 the carcasses), and a few testicles. The cat had gone over the fence;
 the coyotes dug under. During the two months that I waited to get a
 couple of guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees/Anatolian crosses), I lived
 under siege and patrolled the pastures a couple of times every night
 with a shotgun.

 The cat came back two weeks later (apparently that is their regular
 revisiting interval) and killed one of my ewe lambs. I interrupted
 her at 2AM and watched her jump a 6-ft chainlink fence. She didn't
 climb up it; she jumped it. I had 4-ft field fencing around all of my
 paddocks. It stopped nothing until I ran a strand of electric wire
 along the top. I also put railroad ties along the bottom, inside the
 fence to discourage digging. And during that time, I also locked the
 sheep behind bars at night; every opening to their sheds had hog
 panel wired across it.

 The minute the guardian dogs arrived, the terror stopped. I've slept
 well every night since them. Because you live in a populated
 neighborhood, LGDs can create problems with their barking, so that
 may not be an option for you, although you mentioned a dog sleeping
 with the sheep. Perhaps get another dog or a better dog? If the dog
 makes its presence known, generally the predators will stay away
 because the risk of their being injured is too great.

   I know how if feels to discover the remains of your flock without
 having heard a peep in the night. I'm sorry that happened to you.

 Carol

 At 11:17 PM 6/4/2013, you wrote:
Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was
dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine
any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again,
there appeared to be no blood on it at all.

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

2013-06-06 Thread Michael Smith

Ray, wow!  I had no idea. I am surprised then that I have not had
issues before. I have 4--sh foot tall fencing, it's the 2'x4 x 4 foot
wire fence roll stuff. Good for keeping lamb and kid heads from
getting stuck.  Even though I am armed, rifle won't work for me since
we are basically a neighborhood with 1.5-8 acre ranches on paved grid
streets. I can't discharge a weapon like that in the proximity of the
other houses. Also, since there's so much human population we only
seem to get visited by coyotes at night. No day sightings in 4 years
here.  I wonder if some tilted barbed wire top edge would help?

I always assumed I could fix the low gaps below and be OK. Good to
know they can scale the fences. Thanks for that.

Elaine and Renee, thanks for your responses as well. Not sure if I
plan to set any snares, since I have beneficial feral kitties in the
barn in that pasture where the attack occurred.

-MWS

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:22 AM, RAY DE SA ray.d...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Michael, you didn#x27;t mention how tall your fence is. Ours is five feet 
 and I#x27;ve watched the coyotes clear it with room to spare. They are thick 
 here in central California right now, I shot four this past weekend on our 
 ranch. Have never had any luck trapping them, the rifle works best for me.  
 Good luck to you.
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

2013-06-05 Thread Michael Smith

thanks for the replies, and confirmation, Mark and Cecil. Mark's
description of the stomach contents was exactly what I saw. What an
education. I took a ton of pics from many angles, in spite of my
grief, so I could review and learn from them, and teach my 2-year old
son.

as far as traps go, Cecil, I could simply address the gaps. 30% of my
neighbors have sheep on their close proximity 1.5 - 5 acre plots. It's
a smorgasboard around here. I was stupid and arrogant to think that
just because I had not been hit yet, and all my neighbors had, that my
fencing was better. Well, it is better than theirs, except for that
one pasture. I feel awful, since she was probably attracted to the
coyotes.

first thing is to get the fencing together in that pasture. I could
set up a live trap in the meantime. I have a large enough one that
might work. The other thing that concerns me is: I just taught the
coyotes where to go to get a meal.

not that they are still in that pasture, but the coyotes will continue
to check until I slip up, or fix the problem.

_MWS

On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Mark Wintermute
winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:
 Hello Michael,

 The greenish brown mass was the stomach contents.  This mass being found
 away from the carcass indicates to me it was a predator or canine scavenger.
 Canines eat the offal first all except the stomach contents.  Vultures are
 the ones that are very good at cleaning up the carcass.

 I have watched my very large Great Pyrenees lay down on his side and
 squirm/flop/stretch/crawl under a six inch gap of field fence.  He probably
 is three times the size of the coyote around here.

 If the ewe died from natural causes this time of year she would cook
 pretty fast attracting canines.  Even peaceful family dogs will not pass up
 the meal of a dead ewe that has been in the hot sun all day.  Our Great
 Pyrenees who protects the flock feasts on a dead sheep after it has
 cooked.

 Sorry for your loss,

 Mark


 -Original Message-
 From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael
 Smith
 Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2013 12:18 AM
 To: blackbelly
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else

 (Moderator--I am re-sending this in plain text.)

 New to sheep, started in 2008 as some of you folks know, and our fencing has
 been real good.  Last night I might have underestimated the ability of
 coyotes to get under a fence-- on our far pasture-- that a cat or rabbit can
 get under.

 Came home from work today to see almost 10 large California turkey vultures
 flying away from a carcass as I came out. My favorite, sweet bottle baby
 ewe, Ruby. She was about 3 years old and had one of my favorite ram lambs
 who I kept intact.

 If she was attacked, I feel particularly bad, since she was attracted to our
 dog since she was a lamb, and possibly was not as afraid of any canine
 predators as she should have been. All the rest of the 9 sheep and 3 goat
 appear absolutely fine. Let's put it this way. I have an old ewe who I fully
 expected to see lying there, since she is deaf as a post, and slow as
 molasses. So, an apparently healthy, perky ewe suddenly was dead, and if she
 was predated, the animals decided not to continue to feast on more of them.

 Here are some details I am hoping some of you can help with. I have pictures
 I can post on my website later, if it comes down to it.

 1] carcass has obviously been out all day, since we saw a vulture or two
 flying this morning, but took no note of it, since they are around most
 every day anyways. We both had to get to work and I did not go out and count
 the sheep. I am thinking she died early Tuesday morning (June 4).

 2] body was stripped clean, except for the neck, head, and skinny portion of
 the legs with hooves. No large pool of blood or anything like that. No
 obvious blood trail from dragging.

 3] I inspected the neck, on the side facing the ground, the side the
 vultures did not pick on, there was an area of hair slightly matted with
 blood. Even though she had shed her winter coat, her hair is so thick, it is
 difficult to say for sure if there's punctures, but I really don't think the
 vultures caused this. I am thinking that is how she was strangled, if that
 is what happened.

 4] curiously, since I am new to this, about 10 feet from her was a large,
 almost 2-foot wide layer of what looked more like llama or horse manure. Not
 like sheep manure, where it would be black and processed into pellets. It
 was clumpy and grassy and some was fresh enough to be wet and greenish
 brown, when broken. They did have mowed grass for lunch on Sunday, which I
 threw over the fence. There are no large ruminant animals that are in that
 pasture.

 question is: did she simply have some sort of digestive problem and evacuate
 her bowels and die from some sort of distress? or could she have done that
 when killed, and then was dragged the 10

Re: [Blackbelly] Fall-born lambs with fat bellies

2013-04-07 Thread Michael Smith

I find with my blackbellies and my pigmy goats, the fatness of the belly is
directly associated with the dryness of the food. Wet, green young grass =
a skinnier look. Dry hay only = a very fat (gassy?) belly. To that end, I
harvest dry hay at the end of the summer that I give them during the wet
months. And in the dry months, they get cut green grass from the yard. But,
the overpowering trend is to conform to the rule I mentioned above.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.


On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote:

 Someone asked me if they should be worried that their November lambs have
 fat bellies.  These lambs are healthy otherwise, and are not carrying a
 worm load, coccidiosis, or any other known problem.

 I had a similar experience this fall and winter with my adult ewes which
 had fat bellies.  They were not pregnant at the time, just fat in the
 tummy.  My vet (who deals with cattle as well as sheep), as well as a
 couple of friends who raise cattle, said my ewes looked like they had hay
 belly.  They said that in cattle, this condition results from the animals
 being fed a poor quality forage.  They said it is not serious, it is that
 they fill up on the poor quality bulk trying to get enough nutrition when
 better forage is not available.

 Usually, my ewes spend the entire summer and fall eating grass in the
 pasture.  But due to the extreme drought this past summer, they had to eat
 hay (big round bales of grass hay) all summer and fall.  In other words,
 they never came off hay the entire year.  They all seem fine now.  They
 were bred in October and they lambed in March, with no apparent problems.

 But my friend has lambs who are exhibiting the same signs of hay belly.
  They were born in November, and would have been weaned in about February.
  So they've spent their first two months of post-weaning growth eating
 grass hay, rather than spring pasture, as most spring-born lambs would eat.

 I got to thinking:  We hair sheep breeders probably have more evidence of
 the difference between fall-born lambs and spring-born lambs, than breeders
 of wooly breeds because our sheep can breed and lamb year-round.  So we
 would be better able to compare the growth of young fall lambs (fed mostly
 on hay after weaning), to the growth of young spring lambs (fed mostly on
 grass after weaning) than most breeders of wool sheep.

 Which brings me to my question:  Have any of you who raise both
 spring-born lambs and fall born lambs noticed any difference in the growth
 patterns of your fall lambs, such as a fat belly?  Do you think this might
 be what the cattle people call hay belly, and might be due to being
 weaned onto dry hay forage rather than grass pasture?  What is your opinion
 of this -- are there long term effects of this condition, and have you
 observed that these fall fat-bellied lambs grow out of the condition?

 Your thoughts on this matter are really appreciated!

 Sincerely,
 Mary Swindell

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Re: [Blackbelly] Fall-born lambs with fat bellies

2013-04-07 Thread Michael Smith

I can even tell how long it's been since they ate. One side is swollen when 
they just ate, and then the other side swells a bit and the first side goes 
down as the food moves through their rumen. 

mainly the goats. They show it the most. But my rams, of all the AB sheep, 
especially, look lean and skinny right now, even though they eat all day. It's 
mainly wet, green grass. 

during the summer when everything is brown and dry, I expect them to look a bit 
more gassed up.

I don't sweat it. After a few years I got used to the changes.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 7, 2013, at 4:24 PM, Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote:

 Michael,
 
 That is interesting, and it does make sense, the way you state it.  I hope my 
 ewes have that svelt look from here on out, because I feel like I can tell 
 their true body condition if they do not have a fat (gassy) look, as you 
 indicate.  Thanks for your help!
 
 Mary
 
 
 
 At 11:14 AM 4/5/2013, you wrote:
 I find with my blackbellies and my pigmy goats, the fatness of the belly is
 directly associated with the dryness of the food. Wet, green young grass =
 a skinnier look. Dry hay only = a very fat (gassy?) belly. To that end, I
 harvest dry hay at the end of the summer that I give them during the wet
 months. And in the dry months, they get cut green grass from the yard. But,
 the overpowering trend is to conform to the rule I mentioned above.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
 
 
 On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote:
 
  Someone asked me if they should be worried that their November lambs have
  fat bellies.  These lambs are healthy otherwise, and are not carrying a
  worm load, coccidiosis, or any other known problem.
 
  I had a similar experience this fall and winter with my adult ewes which
  had fat bellies.  They were not pregnant at the time, just fat in the
  tummy.  My vet (who deals with cattle as well as sheep), as well as a
  couple of friends who raise cattle, said my ewes looked like they had hay
  belly.  They said that in cattle, this condition results from the animals
  being fed a poor quality forage.  They said it is not serious, it is that
  they fill up on the poor quality bulk trying to get enough nutrition when
  better forage is not available.
 
  Usually, my ewes spend the entire summer and fall eating grass in the
  pasture.  But due to the extreme drought this past summer, they had to eat
  hay (big round bales of grass hay) all summer and fall.  In other words,
  they never came off hay the entire year.  They all seem fine now.  They
  were bred in October and they lambed in March, with no apparent problems.
 
  But my friend has lambs who are exhibiting the same signs of hay belly.
   They were born in November, and would have been weaned in about February.
   So they've spent their first two months of post-weaning growth eating
  grass hay, rather than spring pasture, as most spring-born lambs would eat.
 
  I got to thinking:  We hair sheep breeders probably have more evidence of
  the difference between fall-born lambs and spring-born lambs, than breeders
  of wooly breeds because our sheep can breed and lamb year-round.  So we
  would be better able to compare the growth of young fall lambs (fed mostly
  on hay after weaning), to the growth of young spring lambs (fed mostly on
  grass after weaning) than most breeders of wool sheep.
 
  Which brings me to my question:  Have any of you who raise both
  spring-born lambs and fall born lambs noticed any difference in the growth
  patterns of your fall lambs, such as a fat belly?  Do you think this might
  be what the cattle people call hay belly, and might be due to being
  weaned onto dry hay forage rather than grass pasture?  What is your opinion
  of this -- are there long term effects of this condition, and have you
  observed that these fall fat-bellied lambs grow out of the condition?
 
  Your thoughts on this matter are really appreciated!
 
  Sincerely,
  Mary Swindell
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] lamb does not recognize momma

2012-12-17 Thread Michael Smith

The advice I have gotten from local sheep and goat breeders, is: once they get 
hungry enough, they will suckle. Feeding them every few hours will probably 
cause them to imprint on you, first.

Colostrum aside, Lambs have, what? About 24 hours worth of food energy they are 
born with?

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:41 PM, Jerry Kirby blueberryf...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 Thanks for your reply Nancy.  Of course I am not going to let her die, but 
 she surely didn't get any colostrum from momma.  Without it she doesn't stand 
 much of a chance does she?  I hear bleating from the kitchen just now. Time 
 for some more supplement.
 
 Jerry
 
 -Original Message- From: Nancy Johnson
 Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 5:36 PM
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] lamb does not recognize momma
 
 Jerry,
 
 You are going to have to bottle feed her.  You certainly aren't going to just 
 let her die!  Bring her into the barn and bottle feed her.
 
 Nancy Johnson
 
 
 
 On Dec 17, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Jerry Kirby wrote:
 
 We just had our first lambing of the season.  It was twin ewes born to one 
 of our oldest ewes, probably last night.  They are all pasture sheep and are 
 currently on winter rye grass.  One of the lambs is behaving typically, the 
 other does not recognize her momma and we could not get her to suckle when 
 we put her on a teat.  I gave her 2 oz of colostrum supplement about an hour 
 and a half ago and put her back into a pen with her momma and sibling. Still 
 no recognition by the lamb, even though momma paid much attention to her.  
 We are in South Mississippi with weather in the 50s to 70s.  I currently 
 plan on giving her more supplement every several hours, but I do not have 
 much hope for her survival.
 
 Any suggestions?
 
 Thanks in advance,
 
 Jerry
 
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Fwd: Website Request for Information about BBSAI

2012-11-18 Thread Michael Smith

Northern california as well, near San Jose. My rams just ate their pasture down 
and always get a good handful each, of alfalfa in the mornings, and now, the 
nice hay i grew this last summer. My 5 intact AB rams, who all live separated 
from the ewes, rub and bang on barn walls and such, pretty much all the time. 
But in fall, the lead ram's face usually has more scars than usual. They can 
smell the ewes, who are kept at last 100' away.   Not sure if this breeder has 
ewes? They are sparring a bit more than usual, since my girls are going into 
heat more prominently right now.

Theres also a strange thing that happens every spring where the lead simply has 
skin raked off his forehead, in strips, and I attribute it to thorny berry 
branches coming over the fence. I try to keep them cut back. He's not that 
smart, and appears to be scratching himself on them. 

One of the younger ones broke off a tip several months ago. I simply attributed 
this to him probably getting it caught in some fencing. Never found the tip. 

The lead, when he was a juvenile, would beat posts until his horn base bled 
from being partially dislodged. This would alarm me as well, but would also 
heal just fine. His horn base is so thick and strong now, I don't imagine that 
happening any more.

-MWS

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 18, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote:

 Hello breeder friends,
 
 As Registrar of the BBSAI, I answer questions from those who write in to the 
 BBSAI web site at www.blackbellysheep.org.  This week someone wrote in 
 (below) with a question about sheep horn health, which I do not know much 
 about.  Can any of you help with advice to this person?  I will keep this 
 person's name private, but I will tell her that I have sought information 
 from a group of knowledgeable blackbelly breeders.  Thank you for any advice 
 and suggestions you can offer.  Please reply either to this listserve, or to 
 me privately.  I will forward all your responses to this person.  Her 
 question is included below.
 
 Sincerely,
 Mary Swindell
 Registrar, BBSAI
 
 To: i...@blackbellysheep.org
 Subject: Website Request for Information about BBSAI
 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:56:16 -0800 (PST)
 
 Comment: My father has 5 blackbelly sheep.  All Rams of various ages.  He 
 purchased them to keep all weeds and vegetation down for fire prevention.  
 They used to have horses and Boer goats for that purpose on his 10 acres. 
 Dad is getting older and the responsibility for their care has fallen upon 
 me.I have been doing some research regarding blackbellies.  I believe they 
 have adequate food in the pasture and he has supplied them with a salt block 
 that was reccomended as well as whole corn in the winter.  My question is 
 that recently the sheep have taken to excessively rubbing their horns on 
 trees.  They have always done this but lately it has been extreme.  The base 
 of their horns look dry with some cracking.  The horns themselves look dry.  
 Just yesterday I noticed one ram had broken off aprox 5 off the tip of his 
 horn.  I am researching as much as possible.  I didnt like the breeder as 
 these sheep were in poor shape when dad purchased them.
 Is this normal for rams at this time of year?  We live in northern 
 california aprox 80 from OR border.  Good land with lots of natural growth. 
 I would appreciate any help.  Thank you.
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Thank you

2012-05-12 Thread Michael Smith

Sandy, sorry I did not get a chance to reply earlier. I had an
inbetween issue with a new mother. the story and solution is here, in
pictures with captions. It might help you get past needing to hold
her. Or try it once you can trust her to hold still a bit. The small
cage helped them bond.

http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/spring_2010/Angie.html

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:38 PM, SHession slhess...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Thank you to all for the good advice.  The lambs continue to do well.  Mom 
 lets the babies nurse while I hold her, and has become increasingly less 
 aggressive with them over the course of the day.  I am hopeful that she will 
 accept them.  I will put together a headgate for her tomorrow, if needed.  I 
 wasn't good for much today since I was up most of the night.  Hopefully more 
 useful tomorrow, although there will still be interruptions to feed the lambs.

 Sandy

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Re: [Blackbelly] OT: Lamb Update

2012-05-10 Thread Michael Smith

It's nice to hear the lambing stories. Being new to sheep, I was contributing 
some of my Newbie stories a couple of years ago, and am taking a break on 
breeding--as we just past my only child's  first birthday. I figure when he is 
old enough to stand, hold something, and also talk a bit, we can have another 
round. I already have a fresh, handsome sire picked out.

My friends all say my son is lucky since he's born on a petting zoo. They are 
all suburban-folk, and enjoy the petting zoo themselves, from time to time.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On May 9, 2012, at 9:04 AM, Natasha meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote:

 We had a crazy Friday the other week - when it rains, it pours!  I
 could see that Mercedes (the ewe with the prolapse) had dropped but I
 was up to my eyeballs assisting my Kuvasz Keisha whelp a litter of
 puppies.  I kept checking on the ewe regularly (between puppies)
 throughout the day keeping my fingers crossed that she could wait for
 me to help.  After an exhausting day and night I went to check on the
 sheep in the wee hours of the morning - this time three evenly sized
 lambs presented themselves all cleaned up and ready for the world!  In
 the other pen I had another fresh lamb being cleaned.  I was totally
 flabbergasted as I thought I'd have to assist with the triplet birth
 but she did it all on her own.  Thank goodness there were no tangled
 feet or bodies.  The other prolapsing yearling had two healthy lambs
 earlier but I had to assist with that delivery.  One of those twins is
 not as accepted as the other and had decided to be part of the triplet
 family.  Amazingly enough that ewe was nursing four!  I penned the
 families in separately to establish family units.  Now the lambs are
 with their correct mothers.  The next afternoon a ewe who didn't look
 very pregnant produced two tiny lambs - maybe three pounds.  There was
 a weak lamb and a strong lamb.  We needed to intervene and provide
 goats colostrum for the weak one.  He started to recover then the
 strong lamb had a disaster and fell into a shallow dish of water and
 went hypothermic!  It was a big scare but we got everyone organized
 and warmed up and all are doing really well now thankfully!  So, in 48
 hours we had nine puppies and six lambs born and everyone is healthy,
 safe and sound :)  The puppies will be going out with sheep once their
 eyes are open and they are a bit more mobile.  It is still freezing
 here at night.  One more ewe to lamb...
 
 I am thrilled with all the new life!  I hadn't planned it all
 happening on the same day and night but it did and everyone is doing
 well.
 
 A very tired and happy Natasha
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Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe

2012-03-07 Thread Michael Smith

what is Lamb Text?

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:18 AM, R. Natasha Baronas
meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote:
 One of my ewes got into too much lamb text this fall.  I was worried she was 
 going to bloat.  One of the symptoms associated with acidosis is limping 
 which is caused by inflamed laminae (sp?).  The vet recommended that I soak 
 her sore foot in ice old water.  If she continues limping maybe this will 
 help.

 Good luck,

 Natasha


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Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe

2012-03-07 Thread Michael Smith

Thanks everyone. This morning was frosty outside, and she looked worse
and more tender than ever. This evening, the temps in California are
about 65F and sunny, she was moving fairly well. I have not had time
to treat her, and plan to go get some hoof drench and some Penn, just
in case. I'll pen her up and take a look tonight or tomorrow.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Mark Wintermute
winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:


 
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe


 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

 Hi Michael,

 When I have a ewe come up limping I set them on their butt and totally clean
 up their hooves with my knife.  I have some common scenarios:

 The hoof has separated from the pad and hurts.  This can be very deceptive
 to the eye.  Take your knife and really clean out ALL dirt where the pad
 meets the hoof.  I have found dirt gets compacted up into the wound to the
 point everything looks 100% normal.  You will know when you have found the
 wound when the ewe jumps with pain and goes beserk!!!  Of course if you find
 the wound you still have to clean it out very well.  I usually cut loose the
 separated hoof section since it is essentially dead and will have to be
 regrown anyway.  By removing the hoof section that is separated the dirt
 will no longer compact into the area.

 Or the hoof has a slight tear into the pad (think torn fingernail).  Again I
 cut loose the torn portion so it quits snagging which gives the ewe relief.
 They will still limp but for fewer days.

 And finally thorns.  My property is loaded with Osage Orange (Hedge) trees
 that have thorns capable of penetrating any tire or shoe.  These are very
 hard thorns and are best pulled out with needle nose pliers.  I rather doubt
 you have a thorn issue but maybe your ewe has something (splinter) in her
 pad.  Again, I take my knife and scrape everything off the pad.  If you hit
 the sore spot you will know it!


 Any ewe I grab for limping gets every hoof put into perfect trimmed
 condition.  I pretty much know that the minute I release this tortured ewe I
 will not be catching her again anytime soon!  It is amazing how all four
 legs work just fine when I release them when they could only walk on three
 when I caught them.

 Hope this helps.

 Mark Wintermute

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[Blackbelly] Limping ewe

2012-03-06 Thread Michael Smith

Could use some advice on what to look for here.

older (not sure how old, but she's my oldest) AB ewe shows up limping
yesterday. I had planned on trimming hooves anyway so I penned her and
trimmed while taking a look. No foul smells, no oozing, no
discoloration I could see. No swelling of joints or apparent apparent
break. Joints moved in the right direction and freely.  Did not trim
into the quick or make her bleed. I have done that once and seen a ewe
limp for a few days, but in this case, was careful. She can grow some
pretty long eagle claws for hooves, but usually only on her back feet.
The fronts really required little trimming.

Today her limp is not better, and might be worse. In general, she does
get up and move slow and might be developing Osteoarthritis.
Incidentally, she's also mostly deaf.

Not sure how to proceed other than to pen her for a week, feed her,
keep her real dry (covered pen) and apply hoof drench?  I have a
splint I could vet-wrap onto the joints, but not sure if the hoof
itself is what is hurting... I also could wash her hoof and inspect
between the toes a bit better. Did not really do that.

In general the sheep have dry, green grass pastures and are not in a
manure and urine-filled muddy paddock, like some livestock can be. Our
rain has been maybe 1/2 every 10 days lately.  Never had a problem
with any hoof-related diseases in 4 years and with 15 sheep and pygmy
goats.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] Limping ewe

2012-03-06 Thread Michael Smith

thanks, I'll check that. No, it's a front leg, though. I'll check for
nodules or cysts between the toes as well.

And Cecil, I might try some Banamine, although it's indicated to not
use past 5 days, and IV is preferred (not IM, since it can irritate
muscle tissue), which I have never done.

_MWS

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote:
 Michael,

 Sounds like it is a back leg?  If so, check her udder.  Feel it for fever,
 and also feel each of the teats.   Also get down under her (or gently set
 her up on her rear) and visually examine the entire udder to look for signs
 of infection. If any part of it is hot, inflamed, infected, abcessed, or if
 any of the teats are hot or hard, she could have mastitis, and the pain
 could be radiating into the leg.  It is not likely, but if you would by
 chance have this and it goes undiagnosed, it can kill her, so better to
 check it out and be safe.  Sometimes limping on a back leg can be the red
 flag symptom of mastitis.

 Ruling out mastitis, and if there are no foul smells or irritated tissue on
 the bottom of hoof, then the other thing to check for is an abcess in the
 interdigital gland (the gland between the two toes on the front of the hoof,
 just where the hoof stops and the black hair begins).  Sometimes a hard cyst
 develops there.  You can usually relieve that by squeezing out the cyst
 through the front.

 Other than these two things, I cannot think of anything else.  Perhaps she
 has sprained her leg a little and it just needs time to recover.

 Good luck!
 Mary Swindell





 At 04:23 PM 3/6/2012, you wrote:

 Could use some advice on what to look for here.

 older (not sure how old, but she's my oldest) AB ewe shows up limping
 yesterday. I had planned on trimming hooves anyway so I penned her and
 trimmed while taking a look. No foul smells, no oozing, no
 discoloration I could see. No swelling of joints or apparent apparent
 break. Joints moved in the right direction and freely.  Did not trim
 into the quick or make her bleed. I have done that once and seen a ewe
 limp for a few days, but in this case, was careful. She can grow some
 pretty long eagle claws for hooves, but usually only on her back feet.
 The fronts really required little trimming.

 Today her limp is not better, and might be worse. In general, she does
 get up and move slow and might be developing Osteoarthritis.
 Incidentally, she's also mostly deaf.

 Not sure how to proceed other than to pen her for a week, feed her,
 keep her real dry (covered pen) and apply hoof drench?  I have a
 splint I could vet-wrap onto the joints, but not sure if the hoof
 itself is what is hurting... I also could wash her hoof and inspect
 between the toes a bit better. Did not really do that.

 In general the sheep have dry, green grass pastures and are not in a
 manure and urine-filled muddy paddock, like some livestock can be. Our
 rain has been maybe 1/2 every 10 days lately.  Never had a problem
 with any hoof-related diseases in 4 years and with 15 sheep and pygmy
 goats.

 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] bottle lamb

2012-02-29 Thread Michael Smith

One thing I learned the hard way is: don't try to get away with
stuffing a lamb's belly with as much milk as they can drink and think
you can then do less feedings per day. I learned this from a goat
breeder. Her bottle babies always had scours.

Feeding them like that, and they will end up with scours, and you'll
waste time treating it with probiotics, Corid, Albion, all sorts of
stuff, rather than just feeding them properly.  Lots of small feedings
and you should probably get up in the middle of the night and feed as
well, at least till they start to put on some weight.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 11:06 AM, o johnson jq...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Had twins born sunday n lost one. Second one was doing great n 
 tonight/tuesday came home n momma ignoring him n hes just standing in the 
 corner. Brought him home n working on bottle feeding but he is different from 
 any lambs we have bottle fed before. Any ideas, sugestions, etc. Thank u. Oj 
 in ok

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Re: [Blackbelly] sheep scratching post

2012-01-09 Thread Michael Smith

Funny you should ask. I am seriously considering something heavy-duty
with large 1 wooden dowels sticking out horizontally, like a huge bed
of nails with the nails maybe 8 to 12 apart. The wooden dowels
would, of course wear down and be chewed on, but it should last
several seasons if they are about a foot long. I think the goats and
ewes could handle it. The rams, idiots that they are, would probably
try to challenge it, and destroy it, or their faces.  This design is
still in my head. I have an 8 month old (human) to worry about and may
not get to it this year.

This idea came from watching them work over a large willow trunk base
I have lying on it's side in their pasture. They also like to scratch
on things like this in the summer.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.





On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:29 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com wrote:
 I'd like to give my sheep something to scratch on besides my fence (they are
 really hard on fences). Come spring when they want to help their shedding
 along, it would be nice if they had something prickly or scratchy to rub up
 against. Have any of you made something for your sheep to scratch on?

 Carol

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] BB or AB crossed with something else

2011-10-31 Thread Michael Smith

wow, so I imagined it was the other way around. I was thinking the Painted 
Desert was actually an indigenous sheep to the US and was bred with BBs to get 
horns on ABs.  Thanks for the clarification.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:51 PM, imgr8a...@comcast.net wrote:

 Sorry it took me so long to respond to this.  
 
 The Texas Dahl is a white sheep and when crossed with an American Blackbelly 
 you get a very pretty painted desert.  I have American as well as Barbados 
 Blackbelly sheep and my sister-in-law has painted desert sheep.  The American 
 Blackbelly Sheep is one of the most common sheep crossed with another to 
 produce painted desert sheep.  Painted Desert sheep have horns and have to 
 have certain color patterns to be registered.  If the baby doesn't have lots 
 of color, the only way to register them is if both parents were registered 
 Painted Desert sheep.  
 
 
 Nancy L. Johnson
 imgr8a...@comcast.net
 cell: 301 440 4808
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Saturday, October 1, 2011 8:20:05 AM
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] BB or AB crossed with something else
 
 folks, another great California example. you will have to check this
 ad out quickly, it might not stay there long
 
 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/grd/2623369772.html
 
 they say Texas Dahl cross with BB. But all I see in those white-ish
 rams with spots, is Painted Desert cross with BB.
 
 Texas Dahl is another one we don't see out here much.
 
 _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 Donna-Marie, I imagine you are talking about Marley the ram?
 
 http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/RamsMay2011/17252812_BwW2Sr#1309783922_zcS5wtP-A-LB
 
 take a look at the link Carol included for Painted Desert sheep, and
 remember I said the most common cross with Barbado Blackbelly to get
 American Blackbelly in the west, is Painted Desert. Marley has those
 horns. and after only 3 years.
 
 http://www.painteddesertsheepsociety.com/
 
 I wish we had Mouflon in California. I have never seen them, and
 look every few months on craigslist and ag. forums for them and never
 see them in California. But, if I search on the word barbado, which
 is what people call ABs here, I find several ads on any given week. I
 can find some Jacobs sheep, Painted Desert, but no Mouflon.  Just
 gives you an idea how rare Mouflon are around here.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 On Fri, Sep 30, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz 
 wrote:
 Mouflon have heart-shaped (supracervical) horns, so a mouflon-cross would be
 more likely to have supracervical horns rather than horns that sweep outward
 in curls (homonymous).
 
 For an excellent discussion about the various blackbelly crosses and
 resulting horn shapes, see Anita Garza's page at
 http://www.elcascabel.com/corbros.htm  Her nomenclature for Barbados
 Blackbelly and American Blackbelly is a little outdated, but the bulk of the
 information on this page is very well written.
 
 Those of you with horned sheep might be interested in the United Horned Hair
 Sheep Association at http://www.unitedhornedhairsheepassociation.org/
 
 Those of you with horned sheep that are multi-colored might be interested in
 the Painted Desert Sheep Society at
 http://www.painteddesertsheepsociety.com/
 
 Those of you with well-marked blackbelly sheep with horns (ewes don't need
 to be horned) might be interested in the Barbados Blackbelly Sheep
 Association Int'l. which maintains the oldest registry for the American
 Blackbelly breed. http://www.blackbellysheep.org
 
 Carol
 
 At 04:49 PM 9/30/2011, you wrote:
 
 I was told that the first thing to go on a cross is the black bar across
 the
 top of the head.
 
 I would say the one ram with the wide spread horns may be a mouflon cross
 as
 they have that horn set.
 
 Donna-Marie
 In BC, Canada
 
 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Need help with identifying a ewe

2011-09-25 Thread Michael Smith

first off: hair sheep. so only a few breeds could be in the mix.

Definitely Barbado or American Blackbelly- mix with something else. My AB girls
mostly have horn scurs, I would think a true barbado would not.

On the west coast, the most popular hair-sheep mixes with ABs are Painted
Desert, and then plenty of ABs show up with some wool, and are mixed with wool
sheep as well.

here's an example of some lambs I believe are both mixed with Painted Desert
and a bit of wool. The two white lambs are what I am talking about here, but
you can see the parents, who are probably half and half.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105444895914121009228/NikkiS_Sheep827081028AM

The Painted Desert can be responsible for the white splotches in places they
would not belong on a normal AB. I bought the female lamb, and she grows an
extra- thick layer of very white and curly hair for winter. All my other more
barbie looking sheep have thinner, and more cream-colored winter wool.

these are three of my most barbie-looking ABs I got from one ranch, Great
markings.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105444895914121009228/New_Barbados10308857PM#5284927325580751586

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 25, 2011, at 1:16 PM, Natasha Lovell rubystargo...@yahoo.com wrote:

I was called about rehoming a sheep recently (I have dairy goats, and I'm the
local petting zoo goat supplier livestock expert). I went to visit the
animal, and she had some intriguing characteristics. ..which prompted a
search online and an inquiry to my goat Yahoo groups about her ancestry, with
suggestions of Jacob, katahdin, St. Croix or Barbados Blackbelly crosses or
Soay. The Soay people says she has no Soay breeding, but definately looks
like she's at least 1/2 Barbados.

Pictures:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2153859638484.2108237.1006225420

She is about the size of a pygmy goat, with a long tail (bushy on the end), a
wiry overcoat and wool undercoat (has been clipped sometime after July, grown
back to ~1-2). Four teats (two are likely non functional). She has two horn
stubs (or polled? I'm not familiar with sheep heads), and a dished, very
dainty face (and legs). Her coloring reminds me of the Barbados Blackbelly,
with white patches. A vet suggested her age to be less than 3-4yrs; I'm
pretty sure she's a 2011 lamb, due to general appearance and hoof growth.

She is tame, and seems to have been well handled previously, as she responds
well to a head rub. She was purchased from the Enumclaw Sales Pavilion in
July from a group of goat-like sheep including a white/cream ram. Her only
tag is from the sale barn. I was hoping, since she appears to be a rare/minor
breed or cross, that I might be able to trace her origin. If anyone knows her
breed(s), approximate age or maybe even a place of origin, I would be
delighted to know. I will be bringing her home, if her CL and Johnnes tests
are Neg, in Oct.

If the FB link won't work for you, I can send the pictures upon request.

Thanks!
Natasha Lovell
Rubystar Nubian Guernsey dairy goats
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Re: [Blackbelly] Lambs missing

2011-08-17 Thread Michael Smith

Glad you two liked it!  I actually did have that strong athletic moment again 
with the same ewe. She tried to leap past me and without thinking... my arm 
whipped out in the shape of a Shepherd's crook and caught her right on the 
neck, I brought her down to the ground real quick and had some words for her, 
and stuffer her back in.

She was pregnant with one of my favorite rams. He came out fine, even though 
she hit the deck pretty hard.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 17, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Jerry blueberryf...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 My wife and I guffawed over your email Michael.  We have to have a team of 
 people to herd our flocks into a V-shaped chute to get them into a corral 
 with a squeeze gate to work on them.  As the space gets tighter and tighter, 
 the sheep stop and turn toward us, looking for an opening.  After a moment, 
 one of them will attempt escape by a direct leap to someone's face.  After an 
 instant, then they all leap and flee.  My wife was bowled over by the flock 
 after a leap to the head.  The trick is to have a strong athletic young man 
 in the group who will catch the first leaping sheep at head height.  That 
 will be the head ewe.  Once she is subdued, the rest act like sheep and enter 
 the corral.
 
 These experiences are very funny.in retrospect.
 
 Jerry
 Windmill Farms LLC
 Picayune, Mississippi
 
 -Original Message- From: Michael Smith
 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 12:37 PM
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Lambs missing
 
 I try to pen my more tame sheep at night as well. Easier on rainy
 evenings, as you might imagine. I do it by calling them and dropping
 food down. Some are skittish enough that if I approached the pen gate
 to close it, without inviting them in and feeding them, they would
 bolt.
 
 The more mature sheep that were not raised by me (I bought them like
 that) would practically kill me trying to rush the gate if I tried to
 close it on them, so I rarely bother. If any of you have taken a
 leaping 100# ewe in the face, you know what I am talking about.
 Knocked me on my butt. I thought I broke my nose.
 
 Sometimes when I call them in, the younger ones, especially, get
 naughty and play a game of back and forth, prancing out, then back in
 a few times and they get confused about who to follow and then I lose
 them out in the pasture with the older girls. Especially if I do it
 too early and they still feel like playing.
 
 -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 
 On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:55 AM, Cecil Bearden crbear...@copper.net wrote:
 Do you pen your sheep up at night.  I lost lambs and ewes also until I
 penned my sheep up every night.  After 4 days  of getting them into the pen
 in the evening, they put themselves up before dark and all I have to do is
 shut the gate.  Look over the perimeter fence for any sign of trails, or
 hair.   Call your Illinois dept of agriculture, and ask for Animal Damage
 Control.  these guys should know their job and be able to help with
 predators.   We had a real good one years back who taught me how to trap
 coyotes.  The new guy is worthless..
 
 So as the commercial says Your mileage may vary.  For less than $100 you can
 set up a internet wifi camera that you can monitor the area with.  Tilt and
 pan are more expensive, but might help.  I might suggest motion detecting
 lights.  If it is predators or humans, it will be a deterrent.
 
 Cecil in OKla
 
 
 - Original Message - From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 9:56 AM
 Subject: [Blackbelly] Lambs missing
 
 
 Hi folks,
 
 For the first time in all the years I've been raising sheep, I've had
 lambs disappearing without a trace.  I lost 2 lambs on 08/07/11 and I lost 2
 more lambs Saturday night 08/13/11.  I have excellent fence (5-foot tall,
 tightly woven, and electrified).  There is no evidence anywhere.  No bent
 fencing, no holes, no hair, no blood, nothing.  I am next to a deep woods in
 southern Illinois.  I guess whatever is taking my lambs would have to jump
 over the fence and back out with a lamb in its mouth.
 
 I guess it is possible that locals are rustling my lambs, but I think it
 is unlikely because they are so hard to catch.  Also, my house is next to
 the entrance drive and I think it would be unlikely that someone would come
 so close to the house to steal them.
 
 Someone suggested a night camera mounted to look on the fence line.  Has
 anyone tried them?  They sound expensive.  I wonder if the IDNR or some
 other source makes arrangements to loan or rent them out.
 
 Anyone have any similar experiences?  Any thoughts?  Any suggestions?
 
 Mary Swindell
 
 Bellwether Farm
 815 Bell Hill Road
 Cobden, IL  62920
 (618) 893-4568 or (618) 967-5046
 www.bellwetherfarm.com
 mswin...@siu.edu
 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Heat Dome!

2011-07-22 Thread Michael Smith

great suggestion, but I just though, what about ice blocks in the
water as well? she mentioned it would get too hot to drink.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Terry huntnda...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Mary-- do you have  freezer space? If so, freeze gallon or larger containers 
 of water, and set them in front of fans on the floor, to help remove the heat 
 envelope from under those ewes.
  Spraying water helps some smaller animals-- rabbits, poultry. I have seen 
 cattle and horses lay down in pond edges--will your sheep do that in say. a 
 kiddie pool? we  always had kiddie pools at the lure coursing trials for the
 dogs to cool off in-- and the goats at one site would use them, too.


 Terry W   Ohio
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Re: [Blackbelly] Barn fans

2011-07-03 Thread Michael Smith

yeah, even May for us in California can be an issue for lambing. Poor little 
buggers sit out in the sun and can't self- regulate and don't know any better 
and get too hot.

In California it's feast or famine on the weather. A month earlier and you 
might still have sub-freezing mornings, and then a week of 90*(+) afternoons.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.



Sent from my iPad

On Jul 3, 2011, at 8:13 PM, Carol J. Elkins celk...@awrittenword.com wrote:

 Last week I bought a seriously cheap box fan that is all plastic. I hung it 
 from one of the rafters in the back part of the sheep shed. It helps a 
 little, the sheep aren't afraid of it, and they seem to enjoy the air being 
 stirred around. My shed has no peaked roof so this was the best I could come 
 up with.
 
 Note to self: NEVER EVER AGAIN schedule lambing to occur the first week in 
 July. What could I have been thinking 5 months ago?
 
 Carol
 
 At 05:28 PM 7/3/2011, you wrote:
 
 Carol, I remember reading in a veterinary manual, That the heat envelope 
 that develops UNDER sheep needs to be eliminated! This is done by moving air 
 at ground level.  If your shed has a peaked roof-  exhausting air at the 
 peak, and encouraging air to enter at the ground level maintains  cooler 
 temps.I know a horse breeder who has commercial sized standing fans set at 
 their highest reach, to help push air out of the barn- She sets a couple box 
 fans on the opposite end, door drawn down on top of them, to draw in air 
 from the shady side of the building. Commercial fans can be found around 
 here , used, for little money- and can handle the dust associated with 
 animal keeping a bit better than household type fans.
 
 Terry W  One frustrated person!!!
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Re: [Blackbelly] barn fan

2011-06-24 Thread Michael Smith

I would suggest a gable fan to suck the high, hot air out and get cool
ground air in.

_MWS



On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote:
 Summer heat is here and this year I'd like to either stir or cool the air a
 bit in the sheep shed (30' x 16' pole shed) to help the pregnant ewes. I've
 thought of a ceiling fan or maybe just a box fan suspended from a rafter.
 Does anyone have an affordable (cheap) fan set-up that they like and would
 care to share?

 Carol

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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[Blackbelly] When long horns backfire

2011-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

Long horns might be beautiful, but in the last 3.5 years, I've had no
horn-related incedents up till now. From chatting with you all, I
knew the day would come

I hear the usual metallic fence-banging and am perturbed that I need
to go into the pasture, up to the barn, and chase them away from the
fence door to give the neighbors a break.  What I found was Marley
showing me yet another place I need to fortify to keep him from doing
stupid crap like this.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/MarleyStuckHorn/17655266_xrJN4K#1346186217_gvFzDrs

Poor guy. I got him loose very quickly. By the way he was so out of it
and exhausted, he could have been like that for quite some time (look
at the wear marks on the wood). As the caption says, Ziggy, his
Lieutenant, did a great job of defending him from the ambitious
yearling rams who wanted a cheap shot at the CO while he was feeling
bad.

Yes, I know-- the whole thing could have been much worse. Marley was
happily eating again within the hour.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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[Blackbelly] MowerZilla2, the small sickle bar mower for hay harvesting

2011-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

we only have 4 acres, probably only 3 are fenced and of that maybe 1
to 1-1/2 grow decent pasture-grass/hay. I do encourage it's natural
growth (rather than plowing it under or mowing it down) and have
graduated from a dilapidated Troy-built push sickle with powered
wheels (the 4' tall grass catches on each side and clogs the wheels),
to cutting the Troy-built apart and trying to mount it on the front of
my Exmark lawnmower (even worse clogging and crazy heavy), to
this--which will do all it's cutting on the side

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Hobbies/MowerZilla2/17256321_XrrV5F/1346471564_fgcRR3z/1346472023_zTg93jQ#1310060155_bJSnjBP

I do intend to reinforce the top of the deck and cut the mower
side-skirts off, so I can drive over grass piles.

Enjoy the Rube Goldberg pictures

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

P.S. in case you're wondering, it's not even worth the price of hay
trying to get someone in there with a full-sized swather, much less
the fact my gates won't open that far.

P.S.S. and no-- the amount of time and energy that goes into this is
not really worth the price of hay. I just want to win this battle over
being able to harvest my own grass.  And the amount I can generate is
just enough for the winter for 18 small ruminants.
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Re: [Blackbelly] MowerZilla2, the small sickle bar mower for hay harvesting

2011-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

Good call, Cecil. I actually have one of those couplers from the
previous axle to the donor mower. Now that I am thinking of it, I see
what you mean. I was originally thinking I would have to put it in a
lathe (don't own one) and turn it down to fit inside the pulleys'
center hole. That is a lot of work. Or I would owe someone a lot of
favors for borrowing their time on a lathe.

but, not so

weld it to the flat side, outer face of the steel pulley and I kill
two birds. It fits the splines, and I now, have my offset for the
belt. I could cut it shorter so the offset is not so great.

good brainstorming! and i'll keep that link to that store.

The only thing I am concerned about is the couplers for the axles are
designed to fit sloppy. I wonder if this one fits a bit tighter? My
design with the little triangles would not be a press fit, but it
would be close, and have very little play at all. I'll order a
coupler anyways, to see how tight it fits compared to the axle one I
already have.

_Michael

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Cecil Bearden crbear...@copper.net wrote:
Michael:
I have attached a link to a 5/8 9 tooth coupler that might fit the shaft you
have and then weld into the pulley you are trying to adapt.
Just a thought

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-1495catname=powerTrans

Cecil in OKla

- Original Message - From: Michael Smith
mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com
To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 4:47 PM
Subject: [Blackbelly] MowerZilla2,the small sickle bar mower for hay
harvesting

we only have 4 acres, probably only 3 are fenced and of that maybe 1
to 1-1/2 grow decent pasture-grass/hay. I do encourage it's natural
growth (rather than plowing it under or mowing it down) and have
graduated from a dilapidated Troy-built push sickle with powered
wheels (the 4' tall grass catches on each side and clogs the wheels),
to cutting the Troy-built apart and trying to mount it on the front of
my Exmark lawnmower (even worse clogging and crazy heavy), to
this--which will do all it's cutting on the side

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Hobbies/MowerZilla2/17256321_XrrV5F/1346471564_fgcRR3z/1346472023_zTg93jQ#1310060155_bJSnjBP

I do intend to reinforce the top of the deck and cut the mower
side-skirts off, so I can drive over grass piles.

Enjoy the Rube Goldberg pictures

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

P.S. in case you're wondering, it's not even worth the price of hay
trying to get someone in there with a full-sized swather, much less
the fact my gates won't open that far.

P.S.S. and no-- the amount of time and energy that goes into this is
not really worth the price of hay. I just want to win this battle over
being able to harvest my own grass. And the amount I can generate is
just enough for the winter for 18 small ruminants.
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Re: [Blackbelly] MowerZilla2, the small sickle bar mower for hay harvesting

2011-06-20 Thread Michael Smith

h, chain drive. now there's a thought

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=powerTransbyKeyword=yessearch=WELD40

Thanks again, Cecil. Looks like a fun website to me.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com wrote:
Good call, Cecil. I actually have one of those couplers from the
previous axle to the donor mower. Now that I am thinking of it, I see
what you mean. I was originally thinking I would have to put it in a
lathe (don't own one) and turn it down to fit inside the pulleys'
center hole. That is a lot of work. Or I would owe someone a lot of
favors for borrowing their time on a lathe.

but, not so

weld it to the flat side, outer face of the steel pulley and I kill
two birds. It fits the splines, and I now, have my offset for the
belt. I could cut it shorter so the offset is not so great.

good brainstorming! and i'll keep that link to that store.

_Michael

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-1495catname=powerTrans

Cecil in OKla

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Hobbies/MowerZilla2/17256321_XrrV5F/1346471564_fgcRR3z/1346472023_zTg93jQ#1310060155_bJSnjBP

I do intend to reinforce the top of the deck and cut the mower
side-skirts off, so I can drive over grass piles.

Enjoy the Rube Goldberg pictures

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

P.S. in case you're wondering, it's not even worth the price of hay
trying to get someone in there with a full-sized swather, much less
the fact my gates won't open that far.

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Re: [Blackbelly] california rams

2011-05-29 Thread Michael Smith

I don't keep track of their weight. They are mainly pets and lawnmowers.

I have 10 other American Blackbellies as well, 7 ewes and 3 wethers.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 4:54 AM, Murph chisa...@yahoo.com wrote:

 than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...


 Today's Topics:

    1. California Rams May 2011 (Michael
 Smith)


 My sister brought her DSLR camera over and took some nice
 photos of my
 5 intact rams. 2 of them are yearlings from my 5 rams born
 last May.
 Only two made it this far intact. The other 3 were
 wethered.

 No captions on any of the pics yet. There's two pages, but
 you should
 be able to just click on the pictures you like best and not
 have to
 slog through all of them

 enjoy!


 The pictures are lovely, and they have beautiful horns, I am curious as to 
 what weight and muscle they are?  Do you keep track or are you breeding for 
 their horns only?


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[Blackbelly] California Rams May 2011

2011-05-27 Thread Michael Smith

My sister brought her DSLR camera over and took some nice photos of my
5 intact rams. 2 of them are yearlings from my 5 rams born last May.
Only two made it this far intact. The other 3 were wethered.

No captions on any of the pics yet. There's two pages, but you should
be able to just click on the pictures you like best and not have to
slog through all of them

enjoy!

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/RamsMay2011/17252812_BwW2Sr#1309782994_GxWPdGn

Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.
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Re: [Blackbelly] blackfaced ABB continued

2011-05-02 Thread Michael Smith

same thing in California. You should see the mutts we have here.

_MWS

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Crystal Wolf crystalw...@windstream.net wrote:
 Carol,

 Thank you for the information regarding the blackfaced ABB ram.  Since
 moving to NE Texas it has been a bit frustrating to see and hear that
 anything that has horns or has a a blackbelly is referred to as Barbado
 sheep.  After reading the pdf you attached this explains it all.  Thank
 you.

 Cathy Mayton
 LeapN Lambs

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Re: [Blackbelly] AB Ram on Television Ad

2011-03-01 Thread Michael Smith

I knew I'd seen another version of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgi16des-U

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 BTW heres the commercial:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSMxLSq60O8

 On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Mary Swindell wrote:

 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:16:53 -0600
 From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu
 Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] AB Ram on Television Ad

 Recently there has been a television advertisement for Stride Spark Gum
 where a young woman is being chased down the street by a horned American
 Blackbelly ram.  She successfully fends it off by raising her arms and
 making threatening noises.  The ram was portrayed as a dangerous, rather
 wild-looking animal of uncertain species.

 I am always startled and surprised at seeing our blackbelly sheep on TV or
 anywhere else in the media, because up until now it seems that not many
 people outside our community of sheep ranchers have even seen a blackbelly
 sheep!  So I guess it is a good thing that our sheep are starting to appear
 in the media, even though this particular ad may portray those AB rams as
 being aggressive and dangerous.  We all know that they actually CAN be
 aggressive and dangerous under certain circumstances, but truthfully I
 wouldn't expect to see a lone AB ram chase somebody down the street, ha ha!

 Here's hoping there will be further media attention paid to blackbelly
 sheep (whether in advertisements, documentaries, or other formats).  It
 would be nice to see ewes, lambs, and so forth in a more pastoral setting,
 which I think would portray a more favorable image of our blackbelly animals
 than to have a runaway ram chasing a young woman.  Not all blackbelly
 animals are as B-a-a-a-ad as this big boy was.

 Still, it brought a smile to my face.

 Mary Swindell




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 Peter Wallace

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Re: [Blackbelly] Rejected lamb not eating much

2011-03-01 Thread Michael Smith

I'm no expert, but I've raised two rounds of bottle babies.

when I want to bottle-feed, I isolate the lamb from the
normally-feeding lambs. The rejected lamb will get signals from the
other lambs that food is there, as long as you try hard enough. They
also will think the sheep are their friend and not trust you.

Once isolated, they might go for 12-24 hours without doing much with
the bottle at all. Once they are seriously hungry, they will go for
it.

I would also consider cutting your mix with goat's milk from the store
or anywhere you can get goat or sheep's milk.

Prepare yourself for scours (diarrhea) especially if bottle-feeding this young.


_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.




On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Robert Jung mrbobj...@gmail.com wrote:
 After successfully raising 10 lambs we have our first rejected bottle
 baby.  She has a twin sister that the mom didn't reject and every time
 I tried to set her near them she got head butted.

 Over the past 24 hours every couple hours we've been feeding 1 part
 kaeco Colostrum + 1 part mana pro milk replacer mixed with 4 parts
 warm water (best we could figure out from the conflicting directions)
 and she'll take the bottle but won't drink very much.  I would say
 total she's had maybe 50-75 CCs total in the past 24 hours.  I read on
 here that she needs at least 10% of her body weight per day.  Which
 for 4.8 lbs would be something like 220 CCs.  She looks pretty weak
 and thin and while she'll stand up and walk around she looks a lot
 less healthy and happy than her sister out back with her mom.
 Anything obvious we're doing wrong?

 I'm terrified of the idea of tube feeding since I've never done it
 before but we are willing to give it a try if we have no other choice.
  Is this the next step and if so does anyone know of a good training
 video or guide or something?  If you can't tell we are complete noobs
 at this.

 Thank you all so much and thanks again for the great advice you give!

 -Bob in New Mexico
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Re: [Blackbelly] Rejected lamb not eating much

2011-03-01 Thread Michael Smith

Also, Robert. I am a 2-year noob as well, but had to tube-feed a
little sick one my first time around.

I would not consider trying it unless you have an expert (in our case,
our vet) show you, so you can hold the animal, feel the tube going
down and watch the other person do the job. Then practice it with them
there.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies

On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Robert Jung mrbobj...@gmail.com wrote:
 After successfully raising 10 lambs we have our first rejected bottle
 baby.  She has a twin sister that the mom didn't reject and every time
 I tried to set her near them she got head butted.

 Over the past 24 hours every couple hours we've been feeding 1 part
 kaeco Colostrum + 1 part mana pro milk replacer mixed with 4 parts
 warm water (best we could figure out from the conflicting directions)
 and she'll take the bottle but won't drink very much.  I would say
 total she's had maybe 50-75 CCs total in the past 24 hours.  I read on
 here that she needs at least 10% of her body weight per day.  Which
 for 4.8 lbs would be something like 220 CCs.  She looks pretty weak
 and thin and while she'll stand up and walk around she looks a lot
 less healthy and happy than her sister out back with her mom.
 Anything obvious we're doing wrong?

 I'm terrified of the idea of tube feeding since I've never done it
 before but we are willing to give it a try if we have no other choice.
  Is this the next step and if so does anyone know of a good training
 video or guide or something?  If you can't tell we are complete noobs
 at this.

 Thank you all so much and thanks again for the great advice you give!

 -Bob in New Mexico
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Re: [Blackbelly] AB Ram on Television Ad

2011-02-28 Thread Michael Smith

She looks like I do when I am subduing my bottle-ram Marley.  Grabs
his horns just right ;-)

_MWS

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:20 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 BTW heres the commercial:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSMxLSq60O8

 On Mon, 28 Feb 2011, Mary Swindell wrote:

 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:16:53 -0600
 From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu
 Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: [Blackbelly] AB Ram on Television Ad

 Recently there has been a television advertisement for Stride Spark Gum
 where a young woman is being chased down the street by a horned American
 Blackbelly ram.  She successfully fends it off by raising her arms and
 making threatening noises.  The ram was portrayed as a dangerous, rather
 wild-looking animal of uncertain species.

 I am always startled and surprised at seeing our blackbelly sheep on TV or
 anywhere else in the media, because up until now it seems that not many
 people outside our community of sheep ranchers have even seen a blackbelly
 sheep!  So I guess it is a good thing that our sheep are starting to appear
 in the media, even though this particular ad may portray those AB rams as
 being aggressive and dangerous.  We all know that they actually CAN be
 aggressive and dangerous under certain circumstances, but truthfully I
 wouldn't expect to see a lone AB ram chase somebody down the street, ha ha!

 Here's hoping there will be further media attention paid to blackbelly
 sheep (whether in advertisements, documentaries, or other formats).  It
 would be nice to see ewes, lambs, and so forth in a more pastoral setting,
 which I think would portray a more favorable image of our blackbelly animals
 than to have a runaway ram chasing a young woman.  Not all blackbelly
 animals are as B-a-a-a-ad as this big boy was.

 Still, it brought a smile to my face.

 Mary Swindell




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[Blackbelly] Horse-blanket for a ram?

2011-02-26 Thread Michael Smith

In northern california, we had a couple of freak weeks where we hit
around 79*F in the daytime, and still got frost in the morning. Now
it's raining and there's also a cold front with frosty mornings.

Marley my oldest sire has prematurely shed almost all his winter coat
already and we are still having freezing mornings around here. He
barely has 1/2 long hair on 90% of his body. A couple weeks ago he
had a few small bald spots which grew in.

They are predicting light snow in the San Francisco area valley for
the first time in decades tonite.

Has anyone ever successfully made a horse-blanket kind of poncho thing
for a blackbelly before?

I'd love to hear how you did it.

_MWS
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Re: [Blackbelly] Yearling males getting aggressive

2011-02-07 Thread Michael Smith

I raised a completely intact bottle-ram called Marley. He was
abandoned by his mom, brought to a vet, the assistant took him home
and saved him and I got him when he was 3 months old.

I have heard many stories on this forum about tipping them backwards
and other strategies that teach them a lesson, and I tried them all.
Nothing works on Marley. That said, he has the single most impressive
rack of any of the 5 intact rams I have for breeding.

Now, he appears to be teaching this behavior to his almost 2 year old
son, Ziggy who he lives with. So I just deal with them as little as
possible,

_MWS

On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Margaret Smith femm...@scinternet.net wrote:
 Most of last year's lambs are now just over a year old. We did a poor job of
 castrating the males. Most of them would be called proud-cut if they were
 horses. They have their secondary sex characteristics, such as the horns and
 the attitudes, regardless of whatever reproductive capabilities remain.

 For the past couple weeks, our dear little bottle-baby who lived in with
 us for a month last January, has been getting out-and-out belligerent. He's
 taken to butting, charging, acting pretty scary, despite his runty size. We
 carry a squirt gun filled with a water/Tobasco mix when we go in to feed.
 He's been squirted on the nose with that and backs off when he sees the gun.
 If we don't have the gun, it's 50/50 whether he'll try to butt or be sweet.
 One time, he first butted, then backed up to charge me. I grabbed a horn and
 took him down and sat on him for a good 3 minutes. He seemed to remember
 that lesson for about 2 days, then started in again.

 Other males are just beginning to display this behavior as well. We have 12
 of these young guys together, along with 2 older, well-behaved (so far)
 rams. If the rebellion spreads, it'll be downright dangerous to go in their
 pen to feed or do anything. Up until now, all the boys have been easy,
 maneuverable, sweet, no problems.

 Any suggestions on how to quell this behavior before someone gets hurt (us)
 or eaten (them)?

 Thanks,
 Peg

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Re: [Blackbelly] Peter's winter report (fwd)

2010-11-29 Thread Michael Smith

same for me, I work at Apple Inc. in California. I work in the design
and engineering center for iPods and iPads and iPhones and such.  The
young city-slickers (of which I was one only 5 years ago) are
fascinated by sheep and goat stories and send me links about fainting
goats, dancing Barbado sheep and lawn goat renting services, all the
time.

the endless jokes about the lambs looking a bit too much like me, or
eating lamb sammiches, never end.

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 8:04 PM, The Wintermutes
winterm...@earthlink.net wrote:


 Only real problem is now if I talk about sheep with friends or co-workers
 their
 eyes glaze over...


 I wish I had your problem at times.  We have weekly (if not daily) sheep
 updates where I work. Since I am in IT and close to Kansas City, most of
 them have never seen or heard of life on a farm.  My co-worker that sits in
 the next cube asks me every day if there is a cute story I can pass on.

 With my being the only female in the department, the mating rituals
 discussions are rather interesting. They love to hear technical descriptions
 and just can't fulfill their curiosity about such topics.  There are times
 when I have to stop the conversations since they head in an unacceptable
 area. :)

 Sharon



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Re: [Blackbelly] Peter's winter report

2010-11-28 Thread Michael Smith

the dog factor, I find, is a result of them being raised from lambs on
the ranch with the dog safely behind an adjoining fence. The can get
as close as they like, and the dog can't hurt them. Then once, I
decided to try to introduce them and this is what happened.

http://web.me.com/mwsmith100/Sheila/with_lambs.html#grid

all the 2009 lambs used to really flock around her, now it's only Ruby
and Ziggy who do.

_MWS

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 On Sat, 27 Nov 2010, Michael Smith wrote:


 I also find one of my girls does this 100% of the time with our dog. She
 just loves the dog and does not need to be in heat to do the droopy dopey
 face and wagging tail thing. Funny thing is, the dog is a girl, as well.


 Thats funny! Our girls wont get within 10 feet of our dog (well it was 50 so
 I guess thats progress)

 Michael Smith
 Sent from my iPad

 Peter Wallace
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Re: [Blackbelly] Peter's winter report

2010-11-27 Thread Michael Smith

Yup, Peter. It sounds like Blondie was definitely in heat. I have one not-so 
friendly bottle girl who when in heat follows me around and wags her tail when 
I pet her on the head or shoulders.  Normally she will barely let me pet her 
when i hand feed her. Blondie will have her crush on you again soon enough. 
Sometimes more than others.

I also find one of my girls does this 100% of the time with our dog. She just 
loves the dog and does not need to be in heat to do the droopy dopey face and 
wagging tail thing. Funny thing is, the dog is a girl, as well.

Michael Smith
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 27, 2010, at 6:32 PM, Crystal Wolf crystalw...@windstream.net wrote:

 That is really neat Peter that your sheep learned a hand signal.  These sheep 
 are pretty smart.  Most of my girls are not as tame as yours most of them are 
 touch me not.  I do have a couple that will sniff my fingers and most of 
 them will take treats from my hands.  I give them the large breeder cubes and 
 they are like a bunch of piranha, even climbing over the top of others to get 
 more treats.  They get other treats as well such as bottom of the bag 
 potato/tortilla chips and they like onions and such. So trimmings from 
 vegetables I give them as well and I have one ewe that likes lemons.
 
 Blondie may have been in heat and that is why she may have wanted your 
 attention, especially if the behavior only lasted a couple of days.  These 
 girls come in about every 17 days.  I have a couple wethers with my girls to 
 keep them happy when I don't want them bred.  They also go down to where my 
 rams are and stand outside their fence.  Fortuntely the boys respect the barb 
 wire fence line.  I did not realize just how strong rams are until last 
 summer when they literally bent up a stock gate because they were fighting 
 each other through gate.  Fixed that though so they can't see each other when 
 they are with their assigned group of girls.
 
 My sheep don't mind the rain much either unless it is raining pretty hard, 
 then they get into their shed to wait out the rain.  This summer they 
 actually got their coats nice and clean in the summer rain.
 
 Sounds like you enjoy your sheep as much as I do.  They each have their 
 personality and of course some more than others and I really get a kick out 
 of them.  There are several that recognize their name.  Tess, my oldest ewe 
 will come when called.
 
 Well have a good weekend and thanks for sharing your sheep.
 
 Cathy Mayton
 LeapN' Lambs
 
 “Today I will embrace all that comes into my life and raise the spirits of 
 others”.  Gabriel
 Life isn’t about waiting for the storm to pass, it’s about learning to dance 
 in the rain.  Author unknown. 
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Re: [Blackbelly] Dolly our sick sheep.

2010-11-20 Thread Michael Smith

Bill and Ginger, really sorry to hear about Dolly. I was following along, but 
frustrated, since I am new to sheep and have had no adult sicknesses or 
mortalities, yet, to draw experience from. 

Michael Smith
Sent from my iPad

On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Bill  Ginger Haynes 
browncity_barba...@yahoo.com wrote:

 All,  thanks for the all the replies and suggestions to help my sick sheep. 
 Friday morning my husband came in to tell me that she can't even get up and 
 is suffering.  We had her put her to sleep. The vet said they was nothing I 
 could do to save her. 
 
 Bill  Ginger Haynes  
 Brown City Barbados
 
 
 --- On Thu, 11/18/10, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info wrote:
 
 From: blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info 
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 6, Issue 139
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 6:01 PM
 Send Blackbelly mailing list
 submissions to
 blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 
 http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
 
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
 to
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
 blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
 specific
 than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
1. Re: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 6, Issue
 138 (Bill  Ginger Haynes)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 18:28:26 -0800 (PST)
 From: Bill  Ginger Haynes browncity_barba...@yahoo.com
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Digest, Vol 6, Issue
 138
 Message-ID: 833836.63099...@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
 
 When this ewe was a year old I had to call the vet due to
 the scours, with small amounts of blood in it.  My vet
 treated her for a week.  He never could tell me what
 was actually wrong with her.  He did several test on
 her stool. I myself took her off the corn that is in the
 mixture that we feed.  Her stool started to form up
 some.  She never came back to having to (little
 raisins) for her stool. She continued to be loose for 3
 years. I watched to see if there were any changes for a
 couple of years. All looked good for her.  A week and a
 half ago I saw the dollar size bloody mucus outside the
 barn, then on Sunday I caught her hiding in the barn by
 herself.  I caught her and that when more came through.
 We wormed them that night and she was still eating
 then.  Monday the vet came out and checked her out, but
 had no idea what could be wrong.  He took some of the
 mucus in with him to test for parasites.  Nothing. He
 treated her with Probiocs and a shot of
 B, also a antibiotics. He left me with the 2nd B shot and
 antibiotics.  She still looks so depressed. She is not
 eating enough for a stool to come through for the vet. 
 I caught her drinking some water this morning though. 
 I checked her for bloat, but her side both look normal. I
 checked under the bottom of her eye lids they look good. I
 just don't know. I do rotate them with our 2 minis from
 pasture to pasture.  Any ideas on how to get her to
 poop??   How long will it take her to starve
 to death?  Can I force feed her any liquids or ??.
 Any suggestion.  
 
 Thanks all, 
 
 
 Bill  Ginger Haynes? 
 Brown City Barbados
 
 
 --- On Wed, 11/17/10, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 wrote:
 
 From: blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 6, Issue 138
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 6:00 PM
 Send Blackbelly mailing list
 submissions to
 ??? blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
 visit
 ??? 
 http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbellysheep.info
 
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body
 'help'
 to
 ??? blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 You can reach the person managing the list at
 ??? blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
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 specific
 than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
 ???1. Re: Can anyone help?? (Peg Haese
 KB9LIE)
 
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:36:48 -0800 (PST)
 From: Peg Haese KB9LIE kb9...@yahoo.com
 To: browncity_barba...@yahoo.com,
 ??? blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly

Re: [Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

2010-10-01 Thread Michael Smith

Thanks, Carol. I love looking at other people's animals as well, so
please let us know if there's any updated pictures.

_MWS

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote:
 Michael, absolutely stunning rams. I really enjoy your photos. Thanks for
 posting.

 Carol

 At 12:41 PM 9/30/2010, you wrote:

 Have not seen many posts. Thought I would share some pix of The Boys a
 few weeks ago.


 http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/RamsSept2010/13988192_MQs45#1028603433_Jp6cf

 _Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
 ___

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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Re: [Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

2010-10-01 Thread Michael Smith

Peter, thanks!  I could dress them in tuxedo collars and a bow-tie, if
you like  ;-)

_MWS

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Carol Elkins wrote:

 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:43:12 -0600
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

 Michael, absolutely stunning rams. I really enjoy your photos. Thanks for
 posting.

 Carol

 Yes, I enjoyed the pictures as well. Those are great looking RAMs, thanks
 for posting the pictures Michael.

 I'm tempted to blow up the picture of Verne or Marley as a Pin-up boy for
 our girls...

 Peter Wallace
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Re: [Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

2010-10-01 Thread Michael Smith

you know, the one thing my rams don't get, which some other local rams
do, is a huge mane on their shoulders and sides of the neck, like this
guy, who is in Hollister (a bit south, a bit less sun and more ocean
breeze).

not sure if it's the weather, or breeding or age, or what? None of
them are 3 years old, yet, but the pictures of this ram are at only
2.5 years old.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mwsmotorsports/Gary_Churchman_barbados#5240542258478673826

-Michael, Perino Ranch Balckbellies.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:
 On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Carol Elkins wrote:

 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 10:43:12 -0600
 From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz
 Reply-To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info
 Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

 Michael, absolutely stunning rams. I really enjoy your photos. Thanks for
 posting.

 Carol


 Yes, I enjoyed the pictures as well. Those are great looking RAMs, thanks
 for posting the pictures Michael.

 I'm tempted to blow up the picture of Verne or Marley as a Pin-up boy for
 our girls...

 Peter Wallace
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[Blackbelly] Ram pix for Fall, 2010

2010-09-30 Thread Michael Smith

Have not seen many posts. Thought I would share some pix of The Boys a
few weeks ago.

http://mwsmith.smugmug.com/Animals/RamsSept2010/13988192_MQs45#1028603433_Jp6cf

_Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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Re: [Blackbelly] good movie about sheep

2010-08-24 Thread Michael Smith

Carol. I watched this movie using streaming on my iPad. Fantastic!
Thanks for the suggestion. Had to show some of the good parts to my
wife.

Beautiful scenery. The movie's pace forces you to slow down and do
things on their time. Very effective. My favorite scenes were the one
where the herder is fed up and cussing up a storm, then calls his
friend from a mountain top (to get cell reception) and tells him all
his woes. Hilarious and also--you feel for him.  In both cases, the
scenery is incredibly beautiful. Also, the older cowboy seems to take
things in stride...always talks nice to the animals and seems to have
a great affinity with them, his dog and his horse. I tend to be more
like him...

The streaming version has no commentary available, so I'll have to get the DVD.

Not being a rancher, I had a few observations/questions which some of
you might like to answer:

1] when the ewes are all lambing, and they are trying to graft that
little ram onto a lambing ewe, why toss it from a few feet away, on
top of the other newborn like that? seems unnecessarily harsh.

2] Also there's a scene where a ewe is just giving birth and they
appear to be putting another lamb in there right at the same moment
and touching the lambs together. I imagine this is to try to graft the
other lamb onto this mother?

3] the one lady who is trying to get the ewe into a lambing pen with
her newborn, is gently dragging the newborn across the ground into the
pen. Is that to leave a scent trail? I have no problem getting ewes
into a pen by simply placing the lamb in there, and applying some
pressure from behind, to urge the mother in.

4] They appear to be putting a Onesie on one of the orphaned lambs,
and make comments that the ewe will think her dead newborn is back to
life. Is that a lamb pelt from a newly dead lamb, or something made
of cloth? (The streaming video is not that clear)

All in all very enjoyable. I'll be ordering the DVD so I can see a
clearer version of it, and to get the DVD commentary.

-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies.





On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz wrote:
 I watched a good movie called Sweetgrass, available from Netflix at
 http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Sweetgrass/70128353?trkid=226870

 Actually, I watched it twice, once without the audio commentary and then
 again with the audio commentary turned on. The movie is a documentary about
 a family of Montana sheepherders as they drive their flock of 3000 sheep up
 into the mountain range and then back down when the 2002 grazing season is
 over. I think everyone who raises sheep will be captivated by the movie. It
 documents the last sheep trailing done in this area of Montana, the end of a
 104-year ranching tradition. People with herding dogs will enjoy watching
 the dogs on the trail. People with LGDs will enjoy watching the LGDs protect
 the sheep against grizzly bear. There is very little dialog, and what there
 is is often streams of profanity by one of the men herding the sheep. But
 the sheep noises are really important to the film, and you miss all of this
 with the commentary turned on. That's why it is worth watching twice. The
 commentary explains a lot of what is going on. If you subscribe to Netflix,
 I highly recommend this movie.

 Carol Elkins
 Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep
 (no shear, no dock, no fuss)
 Pueblo, Colorado
 http://www.critterhaven.biz

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