Re: Technical problem, or something far worse? :o(
Sorry about the time lapse in the thread, but I had to seriously cool off before I did something rash. Nick Arnett wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: [Various complaints snipped.] From the e-mail that *everyone* receives when they subscribe: Your first messages will be moderated. If you do not see your message appear on the list, give it some time, and if it still hasn't appeared in a few hours, e-mail the admins. Please don't send the same message repeatedly. How much more transparent can we be? How about something along the line of: 'As a new member your first ten messages will be moderated. If further moderation is in order you will be informed accordingly.' And when people are moderated suddenly (like you did to me a couple of times) it would be nice to be informed of the reason and the time you think it'll take to resolve the problem. I hope that isn't too rational for you? Wouldn't it be more transparent to the newer people to note your relationship to the Netherlander who was at the center of so much trouble related to moderation? I guess you are talking about your percieved nemesis that is my husband who once was one of the greater members of brin-l. Any transparency you're like to offer about [EMAIL PROTECTED]? Huh? What are you talking about? It's not one of mine. I checked. But since we are throwing accusations around is there any chance on giving me some transparency on the refusal to subscribe any (all three in fact) of my other freeler adresses _you'd_ like to offer? Sheesh. Shees indeed. I'm still wondering what all this gall's got to do with MY complaint. I'm my own person and I think I've earned my stripes on this list for being an earnest, concerned and carefull poster. Thus this, your behaviour towards _me_ is totally unwarrented and completely undeserved. I've been subject to a number of your 'returned mail' because of 'rejected by the moderator' surprises. No explaination ever recieved. You know how very injust that feels when in the middle of a heated discussion conducted by the rules of politeness? I for one feel very insulted and totally ticked off. I don't mind being moderated but at least I'd like to know why I'm being moderated and how long this is going to last for. And that is exactly BECAUSE your motives in moderating f.i. little ol' me, cannot always be considered innocuous, as shown perfectly by your response toward what I see as a valid complaint from me as a person previously subjected to what I at the time percieved to be moderation on a whim. Sonja :o( GCU: Lack of empathy ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Technical problem, or something far worse? :o(
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sonja said: Shees indeed. I'm still wondering what all this gall's got to do with MY complaint. I'm my own person and I think I've earned my stripes on this list for being an earnest, concerned and carefull poster. Thus this, your behaviour towards _me_ is totally unwarrented and completely undeserved. I don't recall Sonja ever saying anything that might justify her messages being moderated for any reason other than having subscribed a new address. If she has been put on moderation for any reason other than this, I too would like to know when and why, and I'd also like to know if anybody else is being covertly moderated. Rich I'm sorry that I was unclear about that. It is how I percieved the actions as I felt were taken against me. It's not what was actually happening that made me go ballistic, but the lack of information about it that did it. And I feel that that had to do with a serious lack of transparency. Afterwards Julia apologised and I accepted the appology. BUT ... ...at the time it felt really very bad especially since the rational part of the explanation came from Julia, not Nick. I eventually took it in good faith, but considering the whole of the picture I'm getting now, I am seriously questioning myself whether that was a wise decision, seen the animosity toward me in all of Nick's responses that is. And not only this time around. I'm not one to hold a grudge easily but I never forget either. As a result of this whole moderation mess because of spoofing, and a few other less nice surprises like not being able to subscribe a new adress, without explaination, a few off remarks against my person. It's starting to add up in my mind. For a while now I've been filtering brin-l for moderated posts, so that is how I now automatically know when people are moderated, including me. I'm suspicious about it and I have questioned moderation decisions off-list before, and always got nice and polite answers FROM JULIA, never from Nick. So after all this, I now have to say that the whole incident at the time seriously did stop me from posting for a very long while. And call me crazy, but at the moment I really don't feel all that welcome here anymore. No and I'm not fishing for compliments, it's just how I feel about the list. Or should I say the listowner. Sonja :o( GCU: I still reserve the right to be critical, even if the list owner hates it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
decision
I've finally decided to quit this list. It's been long years of fun, and some years of somewhat less fun. Unfortunatly I just realised that lately it's been no fun at all. I guess it is now time to leave for greener pastures. I wish you all well. Sonja ROU: I've simply had enough, Nick wins. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Anyone for zMud slinging on Tuesday night?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 1 Nov 2004, at 9:55 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are going to be watching the TV with one eye Tuesday night, and on the computer with the other. then how about having the Brin-L room up and running? It'll be there if anyone wants to use it. I'll try to join the crowd, if there is one that is. :o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ready for Faster Check Cashing?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been following the Check 21 initiative for about 6 months now and I think this is the beginning of the end for paper checks. I have mixed feelings on this. Even though there will always be people that will want to write a paper check, I suspect that banks will make check writing so unattractive with fees that most will want to switch to a debit card or electronic banking. Now if the US government would only stop companies from charging a fee to pay online, something like this might work... Ready for Faster Check Cashing? Check 21... Oct. 26, 2004 -- Consumers who rely on the float period (the lag time between when a check is deposited and when the funds clear) to get by every month are soon going to find themselves out of luck. Starting Thursday, a federal law called Check Clearing for the 21st Century Act or Check 21, will allow banks to process checks without any lag time. Complete article... http://tinyurl.com/67q5u Checks? What are those, is it edible? It all started when one of our banks started giving away accounts. So everybody has at least one of those. And I don't think I know anybody who doesn't have at least one of those accounts. They are easy to get and basically free of charge, so that's good enough to make and recieve transfer payments. Once these accounts became popular checks slowly became extinct. Approximately two years ago banks unilaterally decided the consumers would be better off without them and I haven't seen a paper check ever since. Can't say I miss them. Considering that we don't even have the abillity to pay by credit card at supermarkets and such it's very amazing how we adapted. All the panic at the time has abided and the system works just fine without them. Afterall it seems we are more adaptable then we gave ourselves credit for. Sonja :o) GCU: Charge ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Technical problem, or something far worse?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following up on myself -- these last two messages really came through fast! So it is not always six hours... That's good news. Ruben ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l That's because they aren't moderated anymore. Though the messages before were. Other people besides Ruben that have been moderated during the last month are [EMAIL PROTECTED] (last moderated 23-10), Martin Lewis (last moderated 24-10), Maru (last moderated 18-10), Miron Mercury (last moderated 25-10) and Ray Moses (last moderated 25-10). One message of our doctor and one of Jean-Louis as well as one of Nicola Gebendinger went through the moderation cycle. But I think that was accidental. I have (unexpectedly) found myself on moderation mode before, for inocuous reasons as it turned out. I take issue with the fact that our list owner doesn't think it worth the effort to tell people that they are put on moderation mode and the reason behind the moderation. My first emotion is one of being deeply insulted, when it happens. And the only one it seems who is bothered enough to respond to my being mad about it and take my miffedness in good faith is Julia. And even though I know it's general policy that the first messages of anybody joining the list and/or new subscription adresses are moderated as a standard, I personally think it's unfair to not let people know that they are being put on moderation mode for whatever reason. I know it's an effort but it would be nice to increase transparency in this matter. Sonja GCU: One itch scratched ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: A Question about Tolerance
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:03 PM 26/10/04 -0700, you wrote: Hidey-ho. New (digest) list member here. Chad Underkoffler -- pleezedtameetcha. I have a question, snip The second thing I'd like to discuss is Is tolerance a positive, negative, or neutral meme? and Can tolerance be abused, or is it currently being abused, in our society? As I just posted to the memetics list, I think tolerance and other rational type memes are features of unstressed societies, ones with rising income per capita and a rosy future. Stressed human societies, where the future looks bleak, lose tolerance memes in preparation for the warriors of the society killing some alien tribe or internal identifiable group. Dire business. If model is correct, then it provides a science based reason to put shoes on the women (i.e., empower them and be sure they have the technology to limit the number of children they have). Maybe increase in education would accomplish the same? When there is more education usually population numbers go down. Another nice side effect of education is that there usually is an increase in wealth. Not sure the men would be happy though. It would severely limit their powers. Sonja GCU: Prosperity and education go hand in hand ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who does GWB think he is?
Dave Land wrote: snipped A pack of Saudi terrorists hijacked planes on the date of 9/11. A pack of Robin Hood-in-Reverse thieves then hijacked society on the basis of 9/11. Nice rethorics. Sonja GCU: Mudslinging=off ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: VW, was Re: Vacation claims
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:41:31 +0200, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Next, I don't know anyone with a BMW or Mercedes well enough to, well, you know. ;) But I know several people with VWs -- would that count? Depends on the model. Beetles? I prefere mine, nicely polished with a little bit of shiny chrome as a solid piece of steel and technology without the frills. Sonja :o) GCU: Meeep, meeep. My dad used to have a VW Westfalia camper. Plenty of room for all sorts of activities... Jean-Louis GSV Camping (for example class) My parents still own one of those, but we only use it for daytrips. One of these days I'll borrow it. But I'm not the camping type of person. I'd rather be pampered in a hotel, with pool.. and pool bar. ;o) Sonja GCU: Hotel tiger ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Archive? Document? Huh?
I've recieved two rather strange messages from the listserve. One has Archive as subject title, the other Document. Both have no content except for an attachment that I'm not going to open and the automatically added listinfo tag at the bottom. Both are send from [EMAIL PROTECTED] What's this all about? Sonja :o) GCU: Suspicious ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
VW, was Re: Vacation claims
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 5, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Next, I don't know anyone with a BMW or Mercedes well enough to, well, you know. ;) But I know several people with VWs -- would that count? Depends on the model. Beetles? I prefere mine, nicely polished with a little bit of shiny chrome as a solid piece of steel and technology without the frills. Sonja :o) GCU: Meeep, meeep. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An Emulation Sensation
Robert G. Seeberger wrote: http://www.click2houston.com/technology/3741612/detail.html?treets=houtml=hou_digsts=Ttmi=hou_digs_1_03150110042004 http://tinyurl.com/3l93o snipped some ...Quick Transit, that it claims allows software applications compiled for one processor and operating system to run on another processor and operating system without any source code or binary changes. My first thoughts went straight to the heart of the Linux/Microsoft battle. Could this software emulator be used to run Microsoft programs on Linux? And wouldnt that be inviting the full wrath of the Microsoft legal team? Wouldn't that be wonderfull. I believe if this took of that Microbug ;o) would loose out, big time! I mean there are a lot of people out there that only run the damn platform because of some software or other they cannot port to another platform. I for one would be hugely cheering this software if it really worked out. I could also imagine that Big Bill would be inclined to buy the firm and sink it, technology and all if it turns out to be as good as is the promise. So I'm not holding my breath yet. Sonja ROU: Be afraid, be very afraid Billyboy. ;o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: needing to set up a blog
David Brin wrote: --- Warren Ockrassa wrote:Or were you thinking it'd have a different visual style, or what? (The dashboard can handle a lot of the visual settings...) On a Mac I am now looking at it using Netscape and MS/internet Explorer. Netscape cuts off the upper part including the blog title. Explorer crams my initial posting in a long column only a couple of words wide, at the right. In neither case is it easy to see any controls ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l I've looked at it in Exploder ;o), in Netscape 7.2 and in Opera 5.something, and it looks fine, except for the missing mugshot. Actually they look almost identical but the subtitle in exploder is spaced over three smal printed lines while the others only have two, even though the amount of text is the same. The initial posting has a width of 70 characters which also looks very readable to me. If you take into account that not everybody has a state of the art machine and monitor and that resolution is an issue. Even people with low resolution systems should be able to read the blog and thus people with high resolution screens just get less text on theirs. It seems inherent to the software they are using and, although understandable, a tad oldfashioned. Sonja :o) GCU: Flexibillity in layout as a function of detectable resolution settings? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: An Emulation Sensation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Robert G. Seeberger wrote: http://www.click2houston.com/technology/3741612/detail.html?treets=houtml=hou_digsts=Ttmi=hou_digs_1_03150110042004 http://tinyurl.com/3l93o snipped some ...Quick Transit, that it claims allows software applications compiled for one processor and operating system to run on another processor and operating system without any source code or binary changes. My first thoughts went straight to the heart of the Linux/Microsoft battle. Could this software emulator be used to run Microsoft programs on Linux? And wouldn't that be inviting the full wrath of the Microsoft legal team? Wouldn't that be wonderfull. I believe if this took of that Microbug ;o) would loose out, big time! I mean there are a lot of people out there that only run the damn platform because of some software or other they cannot port to another platform. I for one would be hugely cheering this software if it really worked out. I could also imagine that Big Bill would be inclined to buy the firm and sink it, technology and all if it turns out to be as good as is the promise. So I'm not holding my breath yet. Silly SonjaG Bill would buy it and it would beome a core feature (AKA bug) in the next version of Windows, which in turn would cause everyone and their mother to try to sue the pants off Microsoft.G LOL. You can tell I'm not a business woman then. I'll never be missus megabugs. I've never thought of the possibillity of turning this emulator into a bug that will force every scrap of software to run on a windozer box. I'm sure the apple folks won't be too amused and will try to sabotage this company then. So it doesn't look too good for this emulator either way then. sigh ;o) xponent Muave Screen Of Death Maru rob Argh my eyes, my eyes turn it back to blue Too late. Now I'll be running around blinking trying to erase that awfull color from my retina. Sonja ;o) GCU: I'll be sending Rob an orange screen of death next. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
auto resize, was Re: Brin: needing to set up a blog
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sonja said: GCU: Flexibillity in layout as a function of detectable resolution settings? I tried that at http://www.theculture.org/rich/ (resize the window and the text size changes), but decided against it elsewhere because it screws up links into the body of articles. Rich How do you do that? Is it something automatic (window setting perhaps?) or do you have to script it? And why resize the fontsizes? Do you detect the resolution settings of the person visiting your site to select the correct size settings? I mean if you've got a lower resolution you could end up with some pretty unreadable stuff if you make the window smaller. I've seen resizing features where the font stays the same and only the text wrap shortens. Is this the same kind of thing? It looks really cool though. Sonja GCU: Can I borrow? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Help! Offshoring/Outsourcing
Erik Reuter wrote: snipped Here are some possibilities: *snipped long list of what to do instead of advocating for boycotting third world goods in order to retain moral superiority There are lots more constructive things that Seth Stevenson could do. But urge his First World readers to join him in boycotting the products of Third World labor, and so virtually smash the looms that are the best current option of the inhabitants of Desperately Poor Village? No. No! No!! No No Actually in the chosen analogy the most sensible thing to do would be to go into the village and buy a doormat from the producer, then advocate the product to other tourists, who might also be interested to do the same But that is by far too simplistic of course. Sonja :o) GCU: Not a clue ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Polls
Robert Seeberger wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Robert G. Seeberger wrote: From The Century Foundation: snipped all but 1 of the 21 KB post And you might have had the good grace to add an L3 to that subjectline. :o) Sonja GCU: Friendly reminder of our etiquette guidelines Sorry, that is my most oft repeated sin. There is no excuse, But here is mine.G I have very few constraints when it comes to downloading things. I have a cable account, quite fast, and effectively no limitations on downloads. So do I. But I tend to skip the L3 ones and first find out if there is an interesting discussion going on behind them before I read those threads from the top. If no L3 is mentioned I doggedly read on and on and on and then realise that it's a damn long post before skipping it annoyed because of it being a singular post. So it's not the bandwith, but the time I'm bemoaning. So when others add the L3 to a subject I tend not to notice it. It really has zero effect on any decision making I may do. There is simply no decision. I receive 200 - 500 emails a day and that is less than one percent of the bits downloaded into my network on a given day. The only way that L3 net enviromentalism impinges upon my conciousness is if people remind me. Sorry to rattle your conciousness like that. ;o) I could have checked the size firs. I have set message size as one of the features to be displayed now, so feel free to continue skipping the L3, untill others start to clobber you. ;o) With the kind of connectivity that is common over here (they actually give bandwidth away for free at baseball games)(no kidding) it rarely enters your mind that you might be causing problems for someone in the developing worldG. Try not to look down on us too much. We are catching up fast. Sonja :o) GCU: ADSL rocks. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Justice, was Re: KEP part 4 L3
OK, lets go back to the previous paragraph. You stated that you wanted every crime against humans punished. Would this include jail? Would the standard for conviction be beyond reasonable doubt or without a doubt. The standard would be according to the spirit of the law (but then you run into definition thingies and the fun starts right there) and knowing for sure. But that is utopia. Untill then I'll settle for hard proof with same ground rules for all, regardless of personal worth. Actually I'd be much in favour of people being tried annonymously (after verification of identity by a third party of course) to a randomly appointed judge with lawyers also randomly selected in a system where all defense lawyers are working for the state, same as the DA. But believing that this is the solution to have ultimate or even more justice would be a gross oversimplification of this complex matter. If it is the former, I will guarantee that innocent people will be locked up for decades and abused by the guards and the other prisoners. If it is the latter; most perps will get off. There are no easy choices. I know, but does that mean I cannot advocate for something else? In conclusion, I think that ranking wrong actions, and considering systems has its uses. The implementation of your suggestion for punishing those guilty of harming other humans will make you responsible for harming humans. If you support it, and humans are harmed as a result, then you share the responsibility. Yes and I take that responsibillity every day and very gravely. I want to be able to look in the mirror and live with myself knowing I acted to the absolute best of my abillities. And much to my chagrin I fail again and again and again. But I learn each time a great deal. How about you? This isn't to fault you, I also support that. But, I do so with my eyes open, knowing that I can only defend my actions by the limits to the choices that I have. Remains the question, how honest are you to yourself in that respect. Me I'm brutally honest. If we have no punishment, then more innocent people will be harmed. Thus, I make a hard choice between bad and worse. This is the argument you are hearing from folks like Gautam. Not good enough. Now *you* are being an apologist. For the state the world is in today. :o) While one may debate what is the better choice, I cannot see how an ideal outcome is one of our real choices. It never is, and it is therefor even harder to make those choices. But we have to start somewhere don't we? Sonja GCU: Building utopia starts with one ROU: So does the construction of hell. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?
Robert Seeberger wrote: Dave Land wrote: On Sep 9, 2004, at 6:38 PM, JDG wrote: David doesn't strike me as the loaded with smileys type. He (rightly, I think) takes a rather dim view of cheating, thieving morons and the cheating, thieving morons who cheat and steal for them. What about the folks who moron for the cheaters and thieves? Aren't those the ones you'd call 'scape goats? ;o) Or did I miss something? Sonja :o) GCU: Still catching up ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Polls
Robert G. Seeberger wrote: From The Century Foundation: snipped all but 1 of the 21 KB post And you might have had the good grace to add an L3 to that subjectline. :o) Sonja GCU: Friendly reminder of our etiquette guidelines ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Salon.com News Stung! - complete so you don't have to watch the ad
Gary Denton wrote: snipped all of the 22 KB post Thanks for the service, but you might also have taken that little extra trouble of adding an L3 to your subject line. :o) Sonja GCU: Friendly reminder of our etiquette guidelines :o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Outta here
I'm gonne be out of here for a couple of days. A short holiday like thingy staying over at my moms for a couple of days, lounging in the sun, being pampered a bit. But my mom still doesn't know the first thing about computers and thus I'll be out of touch for a little while. Have fun and play nice, Sonja :o) GCU: List mail xGCU: Shutting down in three... two... one... power down is now commencing :o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Privately funded medical research is evil, why it must be eradicated [was: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style]
Gautam Mukunda wrote: You know, Erik, if you didn't keep reminding us we might forget what a jackass you are. Lessee, I believe we can trash this one under the header: personal attack. At least stay polite. Or else take it off-list boys. Sonja :o) xROU: Let's play: same rules for all, shall we ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity L3
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican Gautam Mukunda wrote: Sonja, I'll make you a deal. If you stop making excuses for people who participated in the Holocaust, I'll stop calling you on it when you do it. No deal. Your basic presumption is flawed. Not every German during the holocaust was automatically and without exception a participant in the holocaust and a jew murdering nazi. Not every one, probably not. But, it was common knowledge and there was no indication of public horror at it. As Gautam said, it wasn't accidental; it was deliberate policy from on high. My point is that the lack of public horror wasn't contained or even exclusive to Germany. Europe, the US and the rest of the world were similarly disinterested in the stories of persecutions that did the rounds. I hold that it is too easy to dismiss a horror story (perhaps also because of the fact that the scope and magnitude these crimes were perpetrated on, up untill then, were totally unheard of) when you haven't got physical evidence as in f.i. pictures, portraying the actual magnitude of violence happening. I mean would you have believed Abu Graihb or believed that it was that severe if you'd not seen pictures of it? Would there have been a similar outcry? Up until a point in the war, the world simply didn't have an interest and without physical proof and ready available pictures/physical proof there was no incentive to change this attitude in what happened because it was convenient, not on their doorstep and basically at the time without solid irrefutable widespread proof. I've read your arguements on this type of subject for a while, and I've seen a pattern that I'd like some feedback on. Consistancy, you lump all bad outcomes together. What happened in Abu Ghraib was wrong. People should be punished; and that includes officers who were derelict in their duty to provide the proper environment. You saw my opinion expressed in my recent post. Having said that; there is no comparison with this and genocide. Genocide starts with that first murder, the first act against a fellow human. So I feel that there is room for thought experiments and comparison. One was, IMHO, a criminal neglect to establish a proper prison environment, where the long established procedure was not enforced. The second was a systematic, well planned slaughter of millions of innocent humans that gained momentum as new, more efficent murder techniques were developed. Information about this, according to documentation from the time, was readily available to the average citizen. Actually here we differ considerably. It wasn't mere neglect that caused it, to me it was a premeditated and consiously carried out policy of establishing superiority toward what are considered inferior peoples, at all cost. So the intent factor and the underlying potential for worse, to me makes it really bad. In the US, there was a hue and cry about the crimes. It may very well be that we will not sufficiently punish people far enough up the chain of command, but it is also clear that a number of pro-military people in the US are mad as hell that things were not done right. As always only some, not all. There are those that are even madder at the story getting out in the first place, and I'm not so sure that the displayed outrage for some isn't a mere saving face gesture. Of course there are those that are truely outraged so there is still hope for the future, although the edict to forbid camera's in the army isn't exactly inspiring much confidence. :o) I have not seen an acknowledgement of the multiple order of magnitude in the difference between these two things. To me, its like comparing a mother who yells at her kids when she shouldn't because she is upset about something else and a mother who burns her kids with a cigarette. Both are wrong, but the order of magnitude of the wrongs are enormously different. There is a magnitude of difference, but do I have to acknowledge that everytime I breach the subject. To me it is just as offensive to lump all people on the BADEVIL heap each time something controversial on US behaviour is mentioned on Brin-L. If I'd wanted I could construe that into something along the lines of being a denyer and defender for massacres committed in the name of the US and it's believes. But I don't since I do understand there is a difference. It seems to me that you differ with this idea. Bad is bad, wrong is wrong, and there is no worse. Indeed, bad is bad and wrong is wrong. To me the *only* difference is the magnitude and the scale. Maybe that's what's offensive, I don't know. The difficutly with this is that it lumps all non perfect things
Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Horn, John wrote: Behalf Of Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten No deal. Your basic presumption is flawed. Not every German during the holocaust was automatically and without exception a participant in the holocaust and a jew murdering nazi. Since already this premise for your insults towards me is false, your insults, i.e. that I'm excusing/denying the holocaust and thus must be a nazi, is, since it is based on this premise, also false. If I can interject into this private flame-war grin, I think what might be going on here is a difference in terms. If I'm interpreting correctly, for Sonja, if there is a significant minority (even if it is only a few percent) who would fit her criteria. But for Gautam, that's just rounding error. It's close enough to everybody. Given that, you two are never going to agree. Of course, you didn't need *me* to tell you that... What are you trying to do? Extinguish flames... How we ever get a decent flamewar if people insist on interjecting reasonably? ;o) But honest, your effort is appreciated. By me anyway. I've given up on discussion with Gautam. Still working on a respons to Dan though. Sonja :o) GCU: Entirely reasonable ROU: Let's argue numbers then ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Gautam Mukunda wrote: Snipped al the insults and the thus rendered meaningless rest Gautam, if you weren't so blindingly disposed to calling me openly or covertly a nazi each and every time I say something about the US or WWII that doesn't fit your world view, you might have actually seen the hypothetical questions. The header change should have been a MAJOR pointer. It was whether or not abuse could have become worse (and, indeed, if due to lack of accountabillity, chances are that abuses in the past have been worse). Also if this time the increase in abuse level has been halted before it could get worse because of the availabillity of ugly pictures _and/or_ a wide and very interested audience. Actually a wide *international* audience that's been itching to get a chance to hit the US over the head with mistakes made ever since the war in Irak started. Furthermore I wondered if the availabillity of actual pictures and easy flow of complete and accurate information (as in spreading of facts rather then rumor) could have prevented the holocaust from getting as bad as it did. Now please keep whatever you think of me personally out of discussions. If you feel like spewing hatred my way, do it off list. The list is not the place for it. To me this isn't personal and I intend to keep it that way. If you are incapable of discussing such issues with me and only can come up with some name calling in response to controversial statements we'll call it quits and leave it at that. Rather that then bore the rest of the list to death with yet another flame war. And I'd very much appreciate it if you could get of that high horse of yours. The US isn't perfect, nor is Europe the worst collection of countries on this planet. Sonja ROU: Patriot xROU: Making big bangs, but not always hitting the right targets ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abstinence
JDG wrote: For the record, most spiritual advisors in the Catholic Church interpret Church teaching to preclude experiencing orgasm outside of marriage. JDG - Not that other experiences can't be satisfying. No wonder they are such sourpu.. eh never mind. Sonja GCU: Better not go there ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Gautam Mukunda wrote: Sonja, I'll make you a deal. If you stop making excuses for people who participated in the Holocaust, I'll stop calling you on it when you do it. No deal. Your basic presumption is flawed. Not every German during the holocaust was automatically and without exception a participant in the holocaust and a jew murdering nazi. Since already this premise for your insults towards me is false, your insults, i.e. that I'm excusing/denying the holocaust and thus must be a nazi, is, since it is based on this premise, also false. Which still leaves the questions I've originally asked about accountabillity and information flow, for your benefit rephrased as unoffensively as possible, by now still conveniently unanswered. This to me proves a point about you and your world view and your inabillity to look and act beyond it. Since you aren't able to discuss this issue and insist on repeating the insults towards me without me giving you cause I believe, I'll just let it go. Sonja GCU: End of discussion ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Korea, was Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style
JDG wrote: At 08:35 AM 8/28/2004 +0100 Richard Baker wrote: JDG said: Or how about being passive in the decades of sufferings of Iraqis under Saddam Hussein? Or during the decades of suffering of North Koreans under Communism? The US sent millions to that corner of the world, so I would hardly call our actions passive. Funny, but I don't see a great many French troops stationed on the DMZ. Is the portraiment of the US intervention in Korea correct that basically the intervention served to prevent the corrupt unpopular capitalist government from being replaced by an elected more popular communist government in the midst of the cold war? Sonja GCU: Clueless ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Gautam Mukunda wrote: I don't feel that I've crossed the line at all, Sonja, when I point out that you will happily give Germans during the Second World War the benefit of every possible doubt, and then some.But when it comes to Jews and Americans, you're not so generous. Says who? Would you care to explain to me why that is? Nope. Sorry to disappoint you there but I won't take your bait. You can believe whatever makes you happy, dude. As I said I'm not in for a mudslinging contest. I'm interested in discussion, exchange of information , gaining knowledge/understanding and maybe some chit-chat. All the rest is a waste of bandwith and more imporatantly a waste of my time. And on that note I bid you good night. Sonja GCU: Nothing to prove. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Vietnam, mistakenly was Re: Korea
Damon Agretto wrote: Is the portraiment of the US intervention in Korea correct that basically the intervention served to prevent the corrupt unpopular capitalist government from being replaced by an elected more popular communist government in the midst of the cold war? I think you're thinking of Vietnam. Damon. Of course you are right. Indeed I was thinking of Vietnam. Sorry 'bout that. Sonja :-[ GCU: It's really past my bed time for me ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Definition of SF
Bryon Daly wrote: ...But for the surveilance one: sure, something like that hasn't been implemented or has it? , but I think most of the technology building blocks are in place and it would only be a matter of scaling up from there: small steps, not leaps. Web cams? Sonja GCU: one liner ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style
Dan Minette wrote: From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reports had filtered out earlier, IIRC, though I don't think they'd been given much credence. There is documented skepticism about the whining of the Jews concerning them being targeted by the Nazis. I believe the US and the UK only allowed Jewish children to enter their country freely during the first years of the war. The adults usually were refused entry unless they could show loads of money or prove that they had a usefull profession. The general adult rif-raf (not ment denigratingly) was kept out, much like immigration laws in most countries today. Its fairly well established Among the brass, certainly -- I was referring to the people in the trenches and the civilians left behind. Among those folks too. That is fairly well established, as Gautam has shown here. I don't know what Gautam has shown but I know for a fact that most German soldiers had no choice but to fight. The alternative was what usually turned out to be a one way trip to one of the fronlines. Survival chances there were rather slim depending on which front you got sent to. Desertion equated immediate death. Hardheaded cases or vocal opposition was send to fight in the hot spots on the much feared Eastern fronts or alternatively got a bullet through the head or if they got lucky enough were sent to one of the many work camps. Quite frankly if that are the options I'd be very carefull and fight. It is a strong motivation when one lives under a totalitarian regime where betrayal is rife. Sonja GCU: First hand accounts ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: Re: The Mercies of The Vatican You worship the genocidal, murderous, lying thug of a deity, not I. Perhaps you should practice some of this 'self-examination'. ROTFLMAO. Who was so evil and murderous he became one of us and let us kill him in order to help us. It would be helpful if you considered non JH interpretations of scripture. I'll give two clues, 1) Try to think about the statements about the punishments of God as evil actions have their natural consequences. Whahahahaha. sorry whahahahaehum... I was just thinking that now I understand the position of women in the teachings of the church much much better. Whahaha Sex is evil, women get punished because eventually the concequence of having sex is giving birth, men simply get away with it. whaha... wipes tears of abundant laughter away If nothing else , at least it's consistent. I'm serious again Sonja :-D GCU: ROTFLMAO ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Erik Reuter wrote: On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 05:36:57PM +0200, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: From the CSI factbook The what? Crime scene investigators factbook? GCU: Meaningless numbers Meaningless acronyms you mean? Something like that. Well, this is what happens when I'm dead on my feet, trying to remember to program the VCR for CSI and end up doing something else instead. Sonja :o( GCU: _And_ I programmed the VCR with the wrong channel ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Julia Randolph wrote: And I've attended a few Catholic masses, and based on my very limited experience, pretty much nobody got the wine. Did I just attend some weird churches, or is this common? And I've been to some protestant-denomination churches where grape juice, not wine, was used; is this allowable? If not, what was done during Prohibition? (I'm interested in finding out what sorts of alcohol was allowed and under what circumstances during Prohibition; I know the government allowed doctors to have whiskey for medicinal purposes, my grandfather having been a doctor for the last part of Prohibition and having had whiskey in his office to give patients when that was appropriate... One of the protestants sayings about Catholic communion goes: Cheers folks and the priest drinks for all of you. I always have to smile when I hear it, but it's a pretty consise summary of how things are in a catholic mass. Sonja :o) GCU: Scientist ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
William T Goodall wrote: On 18 Aug 2004, at 7:28 am, Doug Pensinger wrote: There is a larger percentage of non-believers here (than in the US at large) so when they do speak up it probably feels as if the wheels are coming off to those that aren't used to having their faith challenged. 8^) The US is an anomaly. It is the only 'developed' country in which a majority (59%) of people feel religion is very important. That's 33% in the UK and only 18% of Brits are practicing members of an organised religion. The numbers are even lower in such countries as France, Germany and Japan. Belgium: Roman Catholic 75%, Protestant or other 25% Germany: Protestant 34%, Roman Catholic 34%, Muslim 3.7%, unaffiliated or other 28.3% France: Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4% UK:Anglican and Roman Catholic 40 million, Muslim 1.5 million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 500,000, Hindu 500,000, Jewish 350,000 (population total 60,270,708) So that would be: 66% RC, 19% Muslim, 1.3% Presbytarian, 1.2%Methodist, 0.8%Sikh, 0.8% Hindu, 0.6% Jewish Japan: observe both Shinto and Buddhist 84%, other 16% (including Christian 0.7%) US: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10% (1989) From the CSI factbook Sonja :o) GCU: Meaningless numbers ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Not a PDA
Bryon Daly wrote: Honestly, why do PDA's and iPods (or other ditial music players) need to be separate items to carry around? It'd probably be a bit too costly today, but what I want is a PDA with good color (touch) screen, 20-30GB microdisk storage, good MP3/OGG support, and a CF (compact flash) slot that I can use to download pics from my digital camera's CF card to the PDA's disk. Maybe add Bluetooth and/or wireless internet. Austin Powers mode ON Yeah, baby, yeah! Austin Powers mode OFF (I'd even demand cell phone capability, but the largish displays on PDAs make them not very conducive, shape-wise, to being phone handsets.) Use a headset instead of the holding the whole thing up to your ear? Just a thought. I like head sets. It greatly simplifies communication, although I feel a bit daft walking around talking into nothingness. But it would make the screen usefull, even while you are making a call. Just a thought. I'd like a device like that. Some recording abillity would be greatly appreciated too. I forget lots of things. So if I'm already in the habit of lugging around an electronic device it would be nice if I also could abuse it as a voice activated notepad. It would be much easier then to find pen, paper and a flat surface to write on or type in every letter on a stupid keyboard. Sonja :o) GCU: Consumer wishes, an alien concept to producers ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws
The Fool wrote: Imagine that TV's have technology that tracks eye movements and records the reflection in your eyes (they already have technology that can figure out what you are looking at solely from reflections on eyes). Now imagine that you cannot disable this big-brother device without disabling the TV completely. Now imagine that in order to get the TV to show you the programming you want, the device must first record you watching twenty minutes of advertising propaganda, and that the TV won't show you the programming you want to watch unless you do watch all twenty minutes of the propaganda first. Now extend this to everything that the TV shows, all programming, all games, all DVD movies, everything. All these things described are likely to come about over the next few years. Most of the technology I just described is in development. Glad there are still such low tech devices as books. Unless the chair will object to letting me sit down that is, in which case I'll go to the hammock in my garden or use the bed ;o) snipped the rest of this 22 k message If all these things will happen eventually there will be that *one* clever entrepeneur who will grab a big market share by simply marketing a device that isn't as restrictive for less cost, or who will crack a code. and market that. It's been happening as long as there was technical development. As long as industry has been trying to force consumers into a single brand strangle bond, there have been clever businessman who tried to profit by offering ways out of that exclusiveness. Lawyers, fighting contracts with unfair exclusiveness clauses. Hackers, cracking programming codes. Engineers, reverse engineering popular things, rebranding them. Manufacturers, manufacturing cheaper then original parts. Software engeneers offering cheaper software that does the same as the expensive original but at lower cost. DVD region code cracks. Illegal copies. etc. Untill now the human mind has always devised counter measures toward too restrictive conditions. It's a challenge many will take up, even in the future. Every system can be abused, every system can be dismantled, every system can be outmanouvered, every cleverly devised system can be replaces with something less complicated. As for monopolies, if there is a market for it a monopoly will be broken. It might take time, sometimes it might take a lot of time but in the end it always happens. Even MS has to watch their back now and again. Sonja :o) GCU: Puzzles and new ideas ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 11:53 AM Monday 8/9/04, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Steve Sloan wrote: Because in my (and many other people's) opinion, opposing contraception is a bad idea that would drastically lower the quality of life for almost everyone. If God opposes all contraception, then that suggests a God with very little understanding, compassion, or empathy for the human condition. If that's true, then we're all thoroughly screwed. So, inconceivable wouldn't be the right word, but terrifying might. But the Catholic church is _not_ against contraception [ok: maybe it's time to cut some of many negatives in this sentence!]. They fiercely propose one 100% effective way of contraception: sexual abstinence! Between partners in a heterosexual marriage in which both husband and wife are faithful Catholics? Well you could always use hands and/or nice play tingies to get to the same result without getting pregnant No way it can be proven you did it, unless you told somebody or get caught in the act. There are many ways to have a satisfying sexual experience and still not get pregnant. Only thing you have to do is make sure there's no penetration and subsequent ejaculation of penis in vagina. All the rest is still possible. Sonja :o) GCU: I leave the rest to your imagination ROU: Abstinence, who said anything about boring ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Objective Evil
JDG wrote: At 04:50 PM 8/9/2004 -0700 Deborah Harrell wrote: Please explain, then, how any war can be just, since it is inevitable that innocents will be killed, maimed and left bereft by. Deborah, I could say the same thing about automobiles. does that mean that driving automobiles is an evil act, since it is inevitable that driving automobiles leaves innocents killed, maimed, and left bereft? I use the same logic with a just war - intent matters. The difference between the two is in the intent. In a war you fully intent to kill people and usually end up also hitting innocents in the process, with a car the idea is that you avoid hitting other traffic participants as much as possible and refrain from actions that increase the likelyhood of hitting said traffic participants. Sonja :o) GCU: Have you been playing evil games again? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Objective Evil
The Fool wrote:
--
From: Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of The Fool
--
From: Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED]
They certainly don't consider themselves Christian or at least don't call themselves that.
If you are referring to JW's here you are quite mistaken.
According to my sisters-in-law (who are JW's), I'm not.
--
According to my entire extended family on both sides, you are wrong.
Also according to the 'literature' (propaganda) they try and pawn off on
me, they do indeed call themselves 'christians' and consider themselves
to be the only true 'christians' and that everyone else who calls
themselves a 'christian' are false 'christians'. Indeed they argue quite
vehemently about that whenever anyone tries to suggest that they aren't
'christian'. Indeed JW's are the most likely to believe the bible is the
literal Inerrant trvth [*].
from their site:
http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm?article=article_03.htm
quote
*Do the Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one?
Anyone who is serious about his religion should think that it is the
right one. Otherwise, why would he or she be involved in it? Christians
are admonished: Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. (1
Thessalonians 5:21 javascript:showCitedScripture('1Th','5','21');) A
person should make sure that his beliefs can be supported by the
Scriptures, for there is only one true faith.snipped the rest
*
Do they believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?
No. Millions that have lived in centuries past and who were not
Jehovah's Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an
opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and
righteousness before the great tribulation, and they will gain
salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one
another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He
sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into
Jesus' hands, not ours.Matthew 7:1-5
javascript:showCitedScripture('Mt','7','1-5');; 24:21
javascript:showCitedScripture('Mt','24','21');; 25:31
javascript:showCitedScripture('Mt','25','31');.
/quote
Seen that they accept the teachings of Jesus and also accept the
judgement of Jesus as devine I'd say they can be seen as Christians.
___
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Re: Contraception
Julia Thompson wrote: NFP can definitely be useful for spacing children. (An airlock leading to vacuum is also useful for spacing them in a thoroughly different sense.) But repeating the procedure would be a problem after a while. ;o) Sonja :o) GCU Satisfying silence ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Contraception
(at 11:56, 11/08/2004, Wednesday GMT +1) Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:00 AM Thursday 8/12/04, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: (which is 10:00, 12/08/2004, Thursday GMT +1) Julia Thompson wrote: NFP can definitely be useful for spacing children. (An airlock leading to vacuum is also useful for spacing them in a thoroughly different sense.) But repeating the procedure would be a problem after a while. ;o) Not for a good while. There's a whole lotta vacuum out there, and it would take a while to fill it up with annoying rug rats . . . Gotcha! Admit it, we have a time traveller in our midst. ;o) Right? bg Ronn, care to share how your trip in the time machine went? ;o) Sonja ;o) GCU: Date off by one ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
JDG wrote: At 10:32 AM 8/7/2004 +0200 Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: When it threatened to decrease the number of flock considerably or more to the point when contraception started interfering with the power base of the holy church. Is it so inconceivable that maybe - just maybe - they sincerely believe that God does not want us to engage in contraception? Well we have to do *something* to get us to the promised final judgement day. A serious amount of over population created in a short time span might just do the trick. Seen in that light it is indeed plausible that God doesn't want us to engage in contraception. As for the folk of the cloth... imo they are not known for their benovolence in matters concerning their amount of worldly powers. But maybe that is just the way Gods will works. :o) Who knows. But untill there is more tangible evidence other then simply believing in the existance of a spiritual being I'm not willing to opress others with my points of view. Sonja GCU: Conceptive ;o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Russell Chapman wrote: JDG wrote: At 10:32 AM 8/7/2004 +0200 Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: When it threatened to decrease the number of flock considerably or more to the point when contraception started interfering with the power base of the holy church. Is it so inconceivable that maybe - just maybe - they sincerely believe that God does not want us to engage in contraception? Well, yes - if there's no basis for it. No scriptures, no tablets handed down from on high. Do they sincerely believe we shouldn't take vitamins? That we shouldn't have remedial surgery. Why is some meddling with the body to improve quality of life OK but other meddling not OK? Enter 'Jehova's witnesses'. NO MEDDLING with the body. Not even to save a childs life or to prevent serious and detrimental health problems (even in babies and little children) by as simple a thing as vaccination by oral injestion of vaccin. Sonja GCU: It takes all kinds ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Every Single Sperm
Russell Chapman wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: I am asking the very specific question: Why it is inconceivable that if it is the case that God exists, then He has told Catholics that He does not approve of contraception? Please address all responses to answering that question. And yes, I'm still serious, and still have a point here.) I think my position is that it is inconceivable that the Catholics got told, but no-one else did... That was the thrust of my original question. Since I suspect this is gonne end up in one of these did - did not discussions I'll first point to this site. It might be of interest in the discussion. Contraception and religion in light of history and across different religions. http://www.mum.org/contrace.htm Sonja :o) GCU: Haven't read it all but going to ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Objective Evil
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:41 PM 8/8/04, Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: Objective Evil The Catholic Church would argue that no, one should not... evil to prevent evil is still evil. In reality, all the Catholic Church is saying here is the simple moral precept that the ends do not justify the means. I may not have been as clear to others as I was to myself in the last post. What I am saying is that the just war argument is very much a ends justifies the means argument. Maybe so. Who decides if the ends justify the means? (And again, this is a serious question. And I still have a point, other than the one on top of my pointy little head . . . ;-) ) In the end it's history that decides. How a decision is portraid in general to the world after it's been analyzed, evaluated, told, retold, summarized, trimmed to size, altered, told again and finally the essence that's left over after the whole process is written down and generally accepted as such. The one general opinion that is left after that is the judgement that either a majority or the vocal majority holds over which choice and how it was made. So unlike Dan I don't believe that it is an objective or fair process, it's merely a process that results in a generally held opinion. Sonja :o) ROU: All is fair in love and war ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Objective Evil
Dan Minette wrote: OK, but not all actions that deliberately kill innocent people is called murder. Sometimes the very name used implies that the end justifies the means. Like in ... execution? Sonja :o) ROU: just ends no means ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The only food left ...
Robert J. Chassell wrote: My sister sent this to me. I cannot see anything wrong with her reasoning Can't eat beef......mad cow Can't eat chicken.. ...bird flu Can't eat eggs. ...cholesterol Can't eat pork......bacteria Can't eat fish......mercury Can't eat fruit ... ...insecticides Can't eat vegetables ...herbicides Now, the way I see it; that only leaves . . . CHOCOLATE I could spoil the fun by saying something about financial opression of farmers and thus actively contributing to poverty and such due to the economical world market and the situation this puts cacao farmers in. But since I love chocolate so much I'll merely nod in agreement and accept the excuse to get me a piece. nod's in agreement Sonja GCU: Munch munch ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: List mail arriving in random order, was Re: Two Convention Thoughts
Julia Thompson wrote: I almost think the Imp of the Perverse is tweaking the server at times No imps, just some server kobolds and the occasional troll. Sonja ROU: They only come out at night you know ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Karmic slappage (was: Phone home?)
Robert J. Chassell wrote: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote, Actual but non-moral consequences also occur in the 'sins of the fathers (and mothers)' realm: congenital syphilis and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome come to my mind. ... Good point. I wonder whether Fetal Alcohol Syndrome helped push the notion? How much alcohol causes the syndrome? Could watered wine, such as the ancient Greeks drank (like beer nowadays), cause the syndrome? Wine and beer are old, although distilled spirits are not. (As far as I know, they are post-Roman, Arabic.) I think of gin and its equivalents as causing fetal alcohol syndrome, but I don't know whether the dosages you can get from watered wine or from beer have the same effect. If so, then the ancient powers that were -- the most rich at the time -- would likely have suffered. (This brings up another question: to what extent is the claim that rich and powerful Romans liked wine with lead salts in them; and to what extent did this hurt them? Certainly, I have heard the stories, but I do not know the extent of their truth.) Speaking of gin, I think I will have a gin and tonic right now. It is hot and humid, and the mosquitos are out, although I doubt any this far north carry malaria. (Anyhow, good reasons :) Funny, while reading this I was semi-following a talkshow on drunk mothers. Makes me very thirsty. Especially with these temperatures. It's such perfect sangria weather. ;o) Sonja GCU: Fizzy water... straight up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hellllloooooooooo.....
ech echo echoo Gary Nunn wrote: Are we up or down?? It's verrry quiet here... It's becoming rather normal that the list is down around, on or after the week-end. Unfortunatly it's also the most effective way to kill conversation imo. I know *I'm* not inclined to send enything if I notice the list being down... again. By the time it's back up again I've forgotten what I wanted to send so I usually leave it at that. Anyways, it's much too nice weather to sit behind the puter typing silly messages. ;o) Sonja :o/ GCU: Off to visit the gnoms ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wow
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:09 AM 4/30/04, Andrew Paul wrote: From: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ronn!Blankenship wrote: http://ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu/PR/2004D29/PR2004D29A.html (55KB JPEG or 3MB TIFF) Fun picture Sonja GCU: Saturn put in perspective Yea, it is pretty impressive. I think the image scale is 286 kilometers (178 miles) per pixel sentence did it for me. If you have the space and time to do so, try downloading the 3MB TIFF version and zooming in on the rings . . . Wow Again Maru Indeed, whenever you zoom in there appear to be even more rings apperently coming out of nowhere. I love broadband. Took me only 2 minutes. Sonja ;o) GCU: Zzzap ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Instant Cocoa
Deborah Harrell wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: But to use pure cream...now *that's* decadent. It's not decadent. It is just a very nice way to totally spoil yourself rotten after a miserable day. The only problem with this kind of very good cocoa is that a piece of chocolate always tastes bleak in comparison. I haven't given up trying the combination though. I start with the chocolate and drink the cocoa for desert Sonja :o) GCU: Total overdose grin OK, for _me_ it would be decadent...for you mothers/caretakers, with your 24/7 responsibilities, a 'wee drop o' sumthin' sumptuous' is likely well-deserved... Debbi who can just chase the cats out of the house and the horses out of the stable if they get too demanding :) Sounds like heaven but chasing my critter out of the house for much needed peace and quiet is not yet an option although it remains very tempting at times. Tom now fully reached the interested in everything stage. Cleaning out cupboards, checking containers (regardless of the degree of yuckiness) and rearranging furniture currently are some of his more infuriating hobbies. Sonja ;o) GCU: Currently it's too hot for the full hot chocolate treatment ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Archbishop Chaput of Denver
Julia Thompson wrote: I'm not really familiar with Erasmus. Nutshell description? URL to something I could read in a reasonable period of time? Book recommendation which I might get to sometime in the next 10 years? Thanks! He's famous here even a university is named after him and almost every university has a building, hall, room or at least one location named after Erasmus. So I simply couldn't resist to eradicate this particular instance of ignorance. If anybody posted already I'm sorry but currently I have no time to check if anybody did, so here you go: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05510b.htm Sonja GCU: Off to bed ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Instant Cocoa
Deborah Harrell wrote: But to use pure cream...now *that's* decadent. It's not decadent. It is just a very nice way to totally spoil yourself rotten after a miserable day. The only problem with this kind of very good cocoa is that a piece of chocolate always tastes bleak in comparison. I haven't given up trying the combination though. I start with the chocolate and drink the cocoa for desert Sonja :o) GCU: Total overdose ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Yay!
Ritu wrote: ... Ritu GCU Ain't Democracy Grand? Thanks for explaining it was an interesting read :o) Sonja GCU: Living in interesting times ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
On the subject of taxes, was Re: Beheading Avenges Prison Abuse
Gautam Mukunda quoted from someone on ABC They include a belief that government is a mechanism to solve the nation's problems; that more taxes on corporations and the wealthy are good ways to cut the deficit and raise money for social spending and don't have a negative affect on economic growth; and that emotional examples of suffering (provided by unions or consumer groups) are good ways to illustrate economic statistic stories. In my opinion taxes are a way to distribute a countries collectively earned wealth more evenly thereby providing a mechanism to protect, educate and care for the majority and extra care for those that cannot take care of themselves, without totally depriving the happy few of the niceties and luxuries their wealth brings with it. I think that is an objective most people loose sight of when arguing taxes and what is done with them. :o) Sonja GCU: Also a problem here. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Yay!
Ritu wrote: ... So this morning, after six long years, I woke up to an India whose next govt wouldn't dismiss secularism as 'leftist appeasement/cowardly reaction', wouldn't offend me by insisting that some citizens live on the sufferance of others, wouldn't infuriate me by acting as if the carnage of 2002 was 'understandable' or [even worse] 'expected' Mind you, BJP's defeat is not a panacea and Congress *would* infuriate me too but for now, BJP's exit is a good enough reason to celebrate. :) Is the replacing government well equipped to make changes? Or is it just more of the same but with a different undercurrent? I still don't understand how an originally born Italian can be a well equipped prime minister of the largest democracy in the world. Can she really have enough background to handle this? Sonja :o) GCU: Interested in this form of globalization ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Pentagon admits Geneva convention violations approved?
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this is true, then it is an extremely serious manner. It would be admitting deliberate, systematic, authorized violations of the Geneva Convention. That is not just the actions of a few bad apples. It seems to me to be high level illegal orders. I'll stand being corrected by someone who better understands the military, but I cannot see how a general could legally order his reports to delibrately violate a treaty agreed to by the United States. Dan M. I don't know the details (am still at work at 11:00pm, so I'm not exactly following the news) but it's not clear that insurgents captured in Iraq are covered by the Geneva Conventions, for the same reasons we've gone over on this list on several occasions. I know you are an avid defender of, to the rest of the world, untennable positions when it comes to the rights of your government in respect to other countries. I also know that you are an just as avid critic of other countries who apply exactly the same logic and reasoning for exactly the same kind of measures taken against US citizens but come on... you cannot be serious? Your government had the right to torture civilians at will because they weren't official combatants and because they had the extreme bad luck to be in US occupied teritory? Not even gonne mention the legallity of that occupation. In my opinion the torture (because that is what it was) of people who haven't officially, in all openness and through due process been established as criminals is beyond any form of humane conduct no matter under which convention you will or will not classify it and as such cannot be defended and should be punished in an international or Iraqui court of law. If these victims would have at least been officially established as being involved in actions against the occupation forces it would have been marginally understandable and slightly more justifiable although I would still consider it no less dispicable. And then the US still doesn't want its's soldiers to be tried under international law in a well established international court of law. Makes perfect sense after this. Sonja :o) ROU: Please tell me I got it wrong ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: floating homes and businesses....
Gary Nunn wrote: I ran across an interesting article about some homes being built in the Netherlands that will float in a flood. I did a search and found quite a few articles. I really wanted to find a webpage for the company that is building these homes. It sounds like an awesome idea, especially for the flood prone areas. I would say that this will be one of the few, if not the only, long term urban development plan for areas like New Orleans that are on the coast and below sea level where one good storm surge could cause considerable flooding. If anyone knows of, or runs across, the webpage of the manufacturer of these house, please pass it along. I am specifically interested in how they did the electrical and plumbing work as well as the general design. The only REAL problem I think would be debris hitting the home as it is floating. Gary floating homes http://tinyurl.com/2j4xk http://tinyurl.com/22nd5 floating greenhouses http://tinyurl.com/322jj An independent assessment of flooding in the UK http://tinyurl.com/ywsc4 Google search http://tinyurl.com/2bxwx In Dutch they are called waterwoningen. The project mentioned in Maasbommel is this one, http://www.goudenkust.nl/rustveilig5.htm Unfortunatly in Dutch. Let me know if you need help with translation. They were building a number of vacation homes along the coast. The uniqueness of the concept was that normally these buildings are on a solid and not a floating support and only when there is a flood they become a floating home. As for floating homes in particular that's a very well established concept in The Netherlands. I remember something about the ones in Maasbommel in the news a couple of years back. Something to do with environmental concerns because of the location they wanted to build them in. Not sure. You can apply at the website for more info. The architects for the project are factor architecten in Arnhem http://www.ingburoarnhem.com/factor/projecten/recreatie/29921.htm Hope this helps. Let me know if you need more. Sonja GCU: Service ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Wow
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: http://ciclops.lpl.arizona.edu/PR/2004D29/PR2004D29A.html (55KB JPEG or 3MB TIFF) Fun picture Sonja GCU: Saturn put in perspective ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: ADMIN: Re: Notification
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 03:05 PM 4/28/04, Prutje wrote: ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Spam filters let something through again? -- Ronn! :) That was my e-mail adress that showed up, twice now, but I'm not sure what glitched it. I most certainly didn't send it. The adressing is not mine, my name got replaced by the e-mail ident. Odd. Very odd. If this keeps up I'll have to unsubscribe. I don't like being targeted. And I feel very targeted when looking at the header. But that is just my paranoia kicking in. Sonja GCU: I'm miffed about it ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
heat sink in a sun ship, Re: Designing a space navy...
Bryon Daly wrote: His biggest concern seems to be the matter of heat dissipation, which brought to my mind the scene in Heaven's Reach (I think), where the communication (?) laser is used to cool the ship, which is under attack. It's been 5+ years since I read them, and I don't have the books handy, so forgive me if I'm mis-remembering things. Sundiver actually, and indeed the communications laser. Anyway, does anyone remember how that laser cooling worked? Is that reality-based, or posited on some nonexistent future technology? It works on the principle of a heatsink. A bit like the refridgerator. As far as I got it, they heat up one spot/part of the ship with the communicationlaser and then let the heat flow towards a cooler zone, being the sun in case of the novel. Does it work? No idea. But it sounded like flaky physics/material sciences were applied. Not sure though. Sonja GCU: On topic ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Happiness is
Kevin Tarr wrote: Getting your taxes done two days earlyand the printer's ink quits after two pages. I work 13 hours tomorrow and then need to drive three hours for a Thursday meeting with nursing home people. I'll be lucky to be back by 6pm, with or without new ink cartridges. This made me smile. The Dutch file income taxes on-line. No more paper, and you can even send it a couple of minuts before the deadline ends. huge grin No more paper hassels. That is untill they start checking the darn things and demand all the copies that prove the deductions you made exist and are valid. :o) Ah well it is a nice idea and it is starting to work to some degree. Sonja GCU: Technology applied only to fail in the second instance ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Study Shows How Vibrating Tools Harm Workers
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Workers who use vibrating tools for hours on end may suffer permanent damage, and two U.S. researchers said Monday they think they can explain why. http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/04/19/health.vibration.reut/index.html It's Not Because They Can No Longer Be Satisfied By Men Maru I was going to comment on this, but I won't. Too much danger of sliding down the slippery slopes that descend towards randyness. ;o) Sonja GCU: Oops blush ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Irregulars: Solid-state lasers
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: One of my students asked a question in the middle of class last night that I had no answer for: in the standard red diode laser pointer that you can now buy for chump change just about anywhere, what is the element or compound which produces the light? E.g., in a ruby laser, it is the chromium atoms, and in a He-Ne gas laser the helium is used to pump the neon into the state where it will lase, so what is it in the el-cheapo diode laser, like the one I was using at the time to point to the figure being projected on the wall? Hydroxyl masers in protostars, now that's a subject I can at least make some intelligent comments about . . . http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserdps.htm#dpslp1 As far as I gathered it uses a diode set up where the output of the light depends directly on the battery capacity. Semi conductors/solid state physics or some such. It's been a long while since I've thought in those realms so I'm not in tune anymore and it all sounds very vaguely familiar but in a aha sort of way. For the life of me I really haven't got a clue anymore. My brain must be shrinking. Sonja GCU: Internet, you gotta love it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The garden
It's finished. Well as much as gardens can be called finished that is. I simply love it. So much space. Useable space that is. Even had a barbie. It was total bliss. No more muddy paws in my kitchen and already flowers are starting to come out. Planted a small lemon tree and a pear tree, have a black current bush, grape vine and some strawberry plants. Next year will be total fun picking all of that if they survive the winter that is. Even have a corner with all kinds of kitchen herbs in pots. And found that the rosemary is flowering. The cutest purple flowers. Never knew it could do that. I'm impatiently awaiting nice warm dry weather to sit outside and enjoy garden life. We've only had two really nice days since the garden was done and I used those for planting all the refugees from the old ...ehum... garden. And now it's staying wet, cold and windy. Maybe just as well. At least the grass is happy. Sonja :o) GCU: Weather on demand ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: laundry
Kevin Tarr wrote: Tried this over on the subservient list, but got no response. Any help here? Try the other list again today then grin Sonja GCU: Slow responder ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
atl: Brinlist = spaminfo center?
Hi all, I was just wondering. I'm beginning to see similarities between spam subjects and some topics I responded to on Brin-l. I'm wondering if the community has become a source of info for target spammers. What I noticed is that when I talked about doing up my garden I got spam from garden internet wholesalers. And when I complained about high gas prices I got spam about how to increase the mileage/gallon on my car, new more economical cars and more of that kind of stuff. There are a couple more examples but I forgot. But to me it almost feels like somebody is doing homework with list info at their fingertips. I find that rather creepy. Anybody else noticed this too? Sonja GCU: Spam filters ablaze while paranoia attack strikes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: I'm so confused . . . At 03:30 AM 4/6/04, Mike Lee wrote: Ok, we confess. John Doe and Mike Lee are the same person. Well, we're two personalities of the same person. If you ban us from this list, we will sue you under ADA. If you think it's hard listening to us fight, you ought to have to be in the bathroom in the morning with us. You're getting off easy. Every morning, I try to make a reasonable argument, but then it always ends up with me trying to hang that sonofabitch from the shower rod. Just when I think I've strung him up this time, I pass out and wake up with my head half in the toilet. Still, somehow, I always make it to work on time. Deborah Harrell wrote: If your supposition is correct, I agree; people are capable of change, and should be allowed to demonstrate that. Certainly. Elsewhere. Subscribing under a pseudonym doesn't demonstrate positive change to me. In a moderated message, John Doe says he's holding off on answering my direct question about his identify, so I'm going to assume that he is the person I suspected. Top Posting Is Evil Maru You had to make me scroll down here, didn't you? :o) Obligatory second line, to avoid one line respons error messages g Sonja GCU: Top AND bottom posting is eviler still ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands
Dan Minette wrote: - Original Message - From: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands Sonja GCU: Top AND bottom posting is eviler still A small English lesson, Sonja. The term you should use for this concept is more evil. Eviler should be reserved for someone who does evil, just as a worker is someone who does work. ;-) Dan M. Note, I am not an English teacher, nor do I play one on TV. You enjoyed that, didn't you. :o) Actually I mixed up vile and evil while composing. It's either viler (which I considered to be to strong in content, so I came to the evil ehum to which I mistakingly added the -er. Correct? Maybe I should stick to mixing drinks.;o) Sonja GCU: Correctednessicesitinesses. ;o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America
Tom Beck wrote: | And George Bush is involved in/responsible for this how? So I suppose the fact that maybe Bush isn't responsible for this makes it all okay for these companies to be doing what they're doing? That some of you Bush apologists are so avid to scream at the least imputation of anything wrong to him that you ignore the horrible things that are happening to workers in this country these days that the administration's wealthy corporate paymasters are doing without much if any hindrance from the administration? That it's okay for these companies to be stealing millions and millions of dollars from their workers? Isn't THAT far more important than whether or not I am fair or unfair to the president? Actually I missed that connection between this shaving off, of hours and Bush, the man, too somehow. I mean isn't this just a sign that capitalism really works at full capacity or something. Oh and btw, anybody wanne throw some of that mud this way a bit, I love a good mud fight. Sonja GCU: This is too silly ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
payment policy, Re: Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America
Julia Thompson wrote: Sounds like a much more blatantly illegal version of something I've heard of a company with a lot of local jobs doing. One of the more legal practises I know of is to not pay out any partial worked hours/half hours. If a company has many employees, that kind of dime work can turn into millions. Sonja ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
IAAMOAC? Re: America the Theocracy
Mike Lee wrote: Still talking to yourself? Oh. I can see how you might be confused. Let me explain: When someone's being a really egregious idiot, I don't take the time to identify them when I quote them. Actually, I dipped randomly into the ongoing thread, to get an idea of the discussion and the first thing I read is this. I must say that we've developed some awfully strange habits on this list. Anybody got some guidelines handy to slap some people with. Actually I feel that we should make a lot more guidelines. Pages worth of them. That way the bundle people can be zonked with is a lot thicker. Much nicer to hit people over the head with a nice large bundle of paper. Can somebody actually calculate the optimum energy transfer effect on impact with a head in relation to the bundled amount of guidelines we'd need to get some civilisation back into our most heated discussions? We'll assume the use of 80 gram paper perhaps? ;o) Sonja xROU: Press 'mark all as read' and skip to next thread in order to continue the mental journey back to the civilisation we left to follow this detour. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: payment policy, Re: Welcome to life in George W. Bush's America
Tom Beck wrote: One of the more legal practises I know of is to not pay out any partial worked hours/half hours. If a company has many employees, that kind of dime work can turn into millions. We're not talking about that. If you read the article I linked to, in many of these cases managers were ordered to shave up to 3 hours per day from employees' timecards. Some people lost up to 20 hours per week. Hours they were ordered to work or be fired, and hours the middle managers were ordered not to pay them - or be fired. Errr, dah. Actually that's why I changed the subject line. I was not aware that a tangetial approach wasn't allowed. Sonja GCU: Talk about civilised discourse, this wasn't it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands
Oh, oh. This one I just discovered in my junk folder, where it actually belongs. It was never intended for the list, but for my drafts folder. Already wondered what happened to it after I accidentally put something on the keyboard. It didn't show up on my box for listmail so I assumed it got deleted. Darn, them short cut keys. Well if nothing else it at least shows the amount of restraint I normally impose upon myself to post to the list. Sorry to have bothered y'all with my unfiltered annoyances. Sonja :o) xGCU: And thanks to Nick for moderators approval anyway, I myself thought that it was way to offensive to send to the list in this form. SVBH wrote: Nick Arnett wrote: What's a list admin to do? For now, John Doe remains on moderation, which is automatic for new list members. You should either drop the subject and stay out of list policy or finally decide to become the overall ruler of this domain and ban everybody you don't like together with everybody you suspect capable of harm. Any wich way you like it. Just stop bothering the list with this beef you have. I always find myself in the middle of it and I don't care much for being reminded time and again by anybody who happened to have a quarrel with my husband in the past. As you perhaps might have noticed posting has become difficult enough for me as it is without people inciting a list riot everytime paranoia hits. Sonja GCU: Enough is enough ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands
And if I'd read my headers correctly before sending an apology to a message that I just found out was never sent to the list but that due to some unexplained coincidental quirk of fate got dumped in my junk folder, I'd have saved myself some trouble and you the annoyance. I shouldn't be sitting at the puter at this time of night after a hard day of grovelling around in our not yet garden. slapping myself Sonja :o) GCU: Major ARGH Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote a lot of offensive stuff snipped the whole lot ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [ADMIN] Pseudonymous postings from the Netherlands
To spare you further agony, I'll stop responding to myself now. ;o) Sonja :o) GCU: Good night. Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: And if I'd read my headers correctly before sending an apology to a message that I just found out was never sent to the list but that due to some unexplained coincidental quirk of fate got dumped in my junk folder, I'd have saved myself some trouble and you the annoyance. I shouldn't be sitting at the puter at this time of night after a hard day of grovelling around in our not yet garden. slapping myself Sonja :o) GCU: Major ARGH Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote a lot of offensive stuff snipped the whole lot ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Virus infection alert !
Hi, This message is to inform you that Nick's Brin-L service has just dumped an infected message send by Deborah's machine, on the brin-l list. Just to warn the list. And to Nick and Deborah I'd want to suggest that they upgrade their virus protection a notch or two. :o) Infected message was send by [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject of Re: Excel file and contained the virus: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Have fun, Sonja :o0 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Virus infection alert !
Erik Reuter wrote: Huh? Did you look at the headers? It would be a hell of a good forgery if your contention is true. Besides, how did they get the Brin-L subscription list? Is your email list server infected? Or did J do it? Excuse me!? Sonja GCU: Stop the unfounded harrasments. I've had more then enough of it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Virus infection alert !
Nick Arnett wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: Huh? Did you look at the headers? It would be a hell of a good forgery if your contention is true. Besides, how did they get the Brin-L subscription list? Is your email list server infected? Or did J do it? Good forgery? All it has to do is forge a return address of somebody on the list and the message will get through. (Not that I really want everyone to know that.) More to the point, it wasn't sent as an attachment (don't know how it got into the body), so it shouldn't infect anybody. It's the MyDoom virus or variant -- I recognize the encoding characters. It claims to have originated at btopenworld.com -- I just grepped the entire archive and that's the only message with that string in it. According to Norton the message had an attachment, which was deleted on reception of the e-mail (and backed up into the machines quarentine zone) to fix the bugged message. I won't dig up the specifics though. It's not worth the effort. Sonja GCU: Couldn't care less even if I tried ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Virus infection alert !
How nice to know that you are safe. I'm terribly sorry I mentioned you or the list in connection with any of this and I'm very sorry to have troubled you or the list with my concerns. It won't happen again. Sonja GCU: ... Deborah Harrell wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: snipped all ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: IQtest.com, was Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: snipped background info on IQ tests Much more interesting and useful information (much of it in graphic and tabular form, so it can't be reproduced here) can be found at http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/index.html and its subpages. That was actually rather interesting. Thanks for the info. Sonja GCU: Background information is like taking apart a clock. You'll find out what makes it tick. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Nasty cuts Re: Book Binding
Julia Thompson wrote: snipped horor stories of 'cutting edge' accidents Well I'm the type of gall that don't do big accidents, but that instead does them all the time. It got so bad at one point that my hubby wouldn't allow me anywhere near something sharp. I suspect it was something to do with loss of concentration. Now a days I'm doing rather well, only need one bandaid per three kitchen sessions ;o). But I did manage to get myself cut badly on the roses when I planted them yesterday. tongue in cheek Ungratefull good for nothing mutter mumble. I just hope for them they'll be flowering exuberantly this year or else. /tongue in cheek ;o) Sonja GCU: Not yet a briljant gardener but getting better at using sharp kitchen utensils ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Book Binding
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Note that we have learned by sad experience that when using one of those neat cutting machines it is necessary to make absolutely sure that when the blade is in the raised position that it is completely up and locked before adjusting the paper to be cut with your very vulnerable fingers . . . Ouch. You really did that? Oh how that must have hurt. I usually stick to accidents with the smaller kitchen knifes. Those at least can be selfmedicated. All the rest I'm too scared of to not be extremely carefull with. Sonja GCU: I know where the band-aid is. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
IQtest.com, was Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
William T Goodall wrote: You can do a free IQ test at www.iqtest.com in under 15 minutes. Which I just did. I'm not sure how accurate it is. I got an IQ of 154 which is 'genius' level according to them. That probably makes me an underachiever :) Just did. 156 out of 200. According to them that would make me a genius in the 'nobel prize winners' class, ehum. According to them the score in a non native language should be slightly lower then if I'd done it in Dutch or German (judging my skills in English I doubt that however). So I'm definitely an under achiever. LOL Sonja GCU: Smart housewife. xGCU: Do I get a nobel prize for balancing my checkbook? Pbrt ;o) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
IQtest.com, was Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Jim Sharkey wrote: John Doe wrote: The test I took had a maximum score of 150, which gives me a score of 137/150 * 100% = 91.3%. Not that I'm bragging or anything. :-) Sounds like bragging to me, Jerry. Sounds like you're ready for that favorite of Brin-L games, My brain is bigger than yours. :) Oh, come on. This is much more fun than shredding each other to bits. :o) Btw found a personality test that was quick easy and rather fun to do. Only click on the colors and they'll tell you how you feel and what your problem is. www.colorquiz.com %3C%3Chttp://www.colorquizz.com%3E%3E My current situation according to them: Sensuous. Inclined to luxuriate in things which give gratification to the senses, but rejects anything tasteless, vulgar, or coarse. Sounds about right. The rest of the results wasn't too far off either. But I suspect it's something like a horoscope. You can interpret it in many ways and one of those will eventually fit your situation. Another nice and quick intelligence test was at densa.com http://www.densa.com/densa/densa1.html Actually they were a list of trick questions Sonja :o) GCU: Selective reading ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Book Binding
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/20/2004 10:04:46 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Vinal glue. By Vinyl glue do you mean PVA, aka Elmer's white glue? Thanks for the response! Milk based white glue cracks. It has to say vinal in the title. Isn't there something like a binding cover with some binding gluey thingy stuff in the spine. A ready made bindingcover with solidified adhesive (Used for the first copy of a thesis or information booklets and such) . You heat the spine up in a special machine when you've put your pages neatly into the binding. Then you let it cool. It isn't very pretty but it usually works very nicely to quickly save a book from total destintegration. The added bonus is that you get a new cover on your book as well and you can glue the old one back on top of it. Copy shop should have them and they are in numerous binding widths/colors/sorts of material. Usually A4 but you can trim down the edges to a perfect fit using one of those neat cuttingmachines also available in copy shops. Sonja GCU: Cheapest workable solution. xGCU: Not for perfect restorations but makes for good useabillity and only takes a bit of time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
atl: spam eddres harvesting
I've recieved some spam (they called it a newletter) from BOL.com into an account that's never been used. It's a primary accountname that has a couple of aliases attached. So I always use the aliases. When they get spammed too much I kill them and make new ones, something I cannot do with the primary eddress unfortunatly. Now I have visited BOL.com yesterday but didn't realise that I left any info there (privacy settings are reasonably high). The connection itself is zone-alarm protected and we have firewalls from the router and the ADSL modem between the machine and the net. Now I wonder how on earth did these basterds get that particular eddress. Could be a huge coincidence of course. Still makes me wonder how they got it. Sonja GCU: I hate spam that I cannot block. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Complaint (Was: Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?)
Jon Gabriel wrote: Then have some respect for the rest of us innocent bystanders and take your bashing offlist and out of our mailboxes. If you and all the others who were so vehemently bashing fools virtual head in would kindly remember to come forward and as zealously defend other victims of abuse even if one doesn't agree with their points of view the next time anybody else starts throwing around insults, this list would be greatly helped. Sonja GCU: equality rocks ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: L3 Bitter Mellons, Gin and Tonic, and a an Un- reasonable vie w.
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: The particular case of the slave who was 1/64th blck was quite famous. How interesting, there's a famous brazilian _romance_ of the XIX century with the same story, Escrava Isaura [Slave-woman Isaura], who was turned into a soap-opera, and, despite its blatant racism, is the most popular br soap opera outside of Brazil. Yep, seen some of it. It was to soapy for my taste. Sonja GCU: soap - bubbles - colors - plop! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mileposts to Go
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the number of posts to read in the last couple of days, I'm surprised anyone finds the time to post. I can't... Make that couldn't. Regards, Ray. 253 to go. LOL, 363 Race ya :-) Dee I'll raise. 1596 and totally exhausted. Gardening does that to one. Especially after removing 25 tons of earth and 8 tons of stone all by hand. Not to mention a lot of metal and other surprises burried deep. Shovels and cart are currently my best mates. Actually make that hot water, soft soap, the tub and a nice cosy bed. Sonja :o/ GCU: shovel, shovel, shovel ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE
Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: DEFENDERS OF THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE A big giant THANK YOU to Robert Seeburger for posting the flame-bait to Brin-L. 1 If you're going to bitch, at least spell my name correctly. (Unless you're being an ass on purpose, in which case who cares what an ass thinks) Nyah Nyah Nyah! 2 Give some consideration to blaming the person(s) who give(s) in to the temptation. Every little piece of fluff does not deserve serious political consideration and there ***most definitely is*** such a thing as political humor. And remember, no one sucks you into anything, you volunteered. Be a man and admit it and take some responsibility for a change. Sucking an ass in? I'm not even going near that one. I mean it gives a whole new meaning to the concept of a black hole. Sonja GCU: Physics?! What physics? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Are ad honomin attacks ever justified?
Dan Minette wrote: If a popular expert on child rearing turns out to have really botched the rearing of their own children, does that lower one's opinion of their work? The children of a shoemaker seldom have good shoes is IIRC what the husband of Dr. Ruth said when asked about the quality of their sexlife. That doesn't make her any less of an expert on the subject though. But to answer the question. Attacks on a person as such are never justified. It is aimed at nullifying the argument someone makes by an attempt to diminishing the value of that person. A secure and well established personality doesn't have to resort to such dirty tricks to win points in an argument. Especially since that shouldn't be the objective of a discussion in the first place. The object of discussion should be to get more insight into other views apart from once own, to form a well rounded, freshly established and constantly reevaluated opinion of the object of discussion. That would be in an ideal world of course. tongue in cheek Currently we just hit each other over the head with anything conveniently at hand untill someone gives in or is carried away soaked in blood bunch of neanderthales. /tongue in cheek Sonja :o) GCU: Indiscretions of a caveman ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Attachments, was Re: Democrats secular?
Kevin Tarr wrote: snip You are still sending it 8bit transfer-encoded and getting the list attatchment. Not a big deal though. At least the mystery of the phantom attatchments is solved. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] I did everything I could to turn that off. There is an encoding choice but it's for attachments. I knocked the text down to text. Last option that I know of short of switching clients, which I won't do. Oh Kevin, I really didn't mean for you to start fussing over this. I'm sorry if I got you in a bunch over it. It was just that I was curious about the inner workings of this phenomenon since only a few people seem to generate it Now that Michael has so eloquently explained it my curiosity is satisfied and I can move on. It's no bother at all. Thanks for trying though. :o) Sonja :o) GCU: Curiosity ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: BRin-L - are we average? (was RE: Federal Marriage[sic]Amendment)
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 02:14 PM 2/18/04, Sonja van Baardwijk-Holten wrote: In order to be average some need to be on either side of that average. I tend to think that we average out, but only with a big standard deviation over all the values, so that either side up to the outer limits of the spectrum are represented. ;o) I resent that. What on earth ever for? Its not like I put some names to the deviatees or anything. Just some general abstractions into math. O:-) I may be a deviate, but am definitely not a standard deviate. So what do you deviate by then, if it ain't a standard? :-D Sonja ;o) GCU: Groan ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Attachments, was Re: Democrats secular?
Why do some posts still have attachements? I thought the server that relayes them strippes attachements. Kevin's post f.i. has two (see below). One saying that his outgoing mail is virus free the other was the added iformercial from our friendly neighbourhood server (Which could be scrapped if you ask me. We all know where we are. :o) ) Just out of interest. Sonja GCU: Topposting because this isn't a response but some of the original mail is needed for reference. Kevin Tarr wrote: At 04:27 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote: snipped the rest Attachment one contained this Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.577 / Virus Database: 366 - Release Date: 2/3/2004 Attachment two contained this: ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Thoughts on 'marriage' also Re: Thoughts on gay marriage?
Jim Sharkey wrote: Tom Beck wrote: It's the word marriage that appears to have some mystical, totemic meaning for some lamebrained lazyminded easily stampeded credulous dolts (i.e., most of the American public). snipped some But the idea of calling it marriage does make me uncomfortable on some vague level I can't really explain. Product of my environment, I suppose. If it makes me a dolt that 36 years of being told that marriage is between a man and a woman isn't easy to just shrug off, so be it. Jim Gay divorce is sure to follow Maru In our country all people that are not related in bloodline (siblings, parent/child, etc.) and who permanently live together (at least six months officially registered or through a contract at a notary) in twosomes can get themselves officially registered as a partnership. As such the state awards them the same rights as a married couple. Only difference is in succession. A partner has to pay more in succesion tax, but only if they haven't got a contract/will at the notary so merely are registered. Anybody who wants to get a public marriage certificate can do so without much hassle. We do however in language make a very rigid distinction between public marriage (i.e. voor de wet getrouwd/boterbriefje) and religious marriage (i.e. kerkelijk huwelijk). Oh and btw I just checked, Belgium also allows same sex marriages. So do apperently two provinces in Canada. Sonja :o) GCU: The same thing different ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
