RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:33 PM 8/2/03 -0500, Horn, John wrote: From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Ah, heck. I can't spell Lt either. Unlike the old joke about engineer, I never learned how to spell it correctly despite being one. One of those words that I've never been able to get down. Kinda like caffeine, I spell it 1,3,7-trimethyl-2,6-dihydroxypurine then I don't have to remember whether it's ie or ei . . . vacuum and torture. (Spell check caught those!) One of the results of writing religious satire has been that I finally learned how to spell sacrilegious correctly i.e., *not* sac- + religious by reading the comments I receive in response to some of my submissions . . . And I allways thought that sacrilegious people were the ones who prefered paper to plastic or vice-a-versa (which I also can't spell). = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: William T Goodall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... I think it's time to quit that particular list! Sheesh, and I thought 200 behind was bad... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Ah, heck. I can't spell Lt either. One of those words that I've never been able to get down. Kinda like caffeine, vacuum and torture. (Spell check caught those!) - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 05:33 PM 8/2/03 -0500, Horn, John wrote: From: Jan Coffey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Ah, heck. I can't spell Lt either. Unlike the old joke about engineer, I never learned how to spell it correctly despite being one. One of those words that I've never been able to get down. Kinda like caffeine, I spell it 1,3,7-trimethyl-2,6-dihydroxypurine then I don't have to remember whether it's ie or ei . . . vacuum and torture. (Spell check caught those!) One of the results of writing religious satire has been that I finally learned how to spell sacrilegious correctly i.e., *not* sac- + religious by reading the comments I receive in response to some of my submissions . . . ;-) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. Where does this statistic come from? Sally Shaywitz M.D. http://www.writersreps.com/live/catalog/authors/shaywitzs.html There are researchers who disagree with shaywitz but as far as I know, not on this point. If you read her book and her papers, you may notice some contradictions to many of the fine detials, but that is usually the case. She seems to have the big picture right, but is missing the insite of the the experience. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 19:27 2003-07-31 -0500, Ronn! wrote: At 10:20 AM 8/1/03 +1000, Russell Chapman wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Leftennant Kernal for those of us who recognise Queen Elizabeth II. If Lieutenant is a french word, we say leftennant and USA'ns say Lootenant, what do the French say? Lieutenant. You can approximate it with LEE, followed by the U sound in hurt, then the T, skip the e and the nant copuld be pronounced as in english, stopping before the NT. In other words don't say NAY, but NAnt, keeping the last two sounds silent. The tonal accent would be over the EU. oui -- soo -- ren -- der ;-) What's seal in french? :-p Jean-Louis Don't answer that Couturier ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jon Gabriel wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) For some reason, even after I saw that this was from Galaxy Quest, I kept thinking I had heard it in Babylon 5 as well, but I think the actual B5 reference is No surrender, no retreat. Reggie Bautista _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Do you really want to make it persoanl? becouse we can do that. Go ahead and try me. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:01:52 -0700 (PDT) --- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Jan, I know that you've been hashing this out with Erik (unpleasantly), but please consider that it is perfectly possible that Ritu has not read that thread and isn't aware that you're dyslexic. Personally, I wouldn't assume someone was unless they told me. I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again. -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... Yeah, I gave up on one list when I hit 25K unread posts. Jon _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Patrick Patrick Schlichtenmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Be silly. Be honest. Be kind. -Ralph Waldo Emerson - Get your FREE email address at www.gogoworld.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! Doh! You're right! I was going to say Winston Churchill! (I was thinking of his We shall defend our island speech). _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:01:52 -0700 (PDT) --- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Jan, I know that you've been hashing this out with Erik (unpleasantly), but please consider that it is perfectly possible that Ritu has not read that thread and isn't aware that you're dyslexic. Personally, I wouldn't assume someone was unless they told me. I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Jon Indeed. I did possibly act in too hasty a manner. It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. In fact, since my kind is over-represented in the list of mental achievers, the inability to spell English is more likely a sign of high, or at least highly unique, intelagence than it is of low or cripled intelagence. The very act of ridiculing, or even admiting to being able to recognize misspellings suggests that the person is from the %80 of the population that is more likely to be unremarkable. So, Ritu, my sincerist appologies. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Give the man a cigar! (And a beer or something for remembering Tim Allen's character's name). :) Agreed. Excellent movie. Jon It's a Rock Monster! It doesn't HAVE motivation! Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 08:02 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Galaxy Quest? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Hey, it won the Hugo. Don't knock it. Julia one of the people responsible for that ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. He was never diagnosed. Managed to compensate to the point where they wouldn't have diagnosed it. Realized it later. His father is also somewhat dyslexic. Never stopped him from being a good engineer. Now, I think the thing to do when you encounter someone with atrocious spelling is, try to figure everything out from context; if the context leaves a word or two in an ambiguous state, ask the poster what they meant. Paraphrase the two (or more) possible meanings of the sentence, and ask which one they meant. And don't be mean about it. And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 05:09 PM 7/30/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: There are dangers there. Take these seven factors and turn them around. Some of them will not sound so pleasing once you get under the surface and down to the WHY the Lt. Cln. addresses. Sorry, Lt. Cln. = ? Light Clinton? Lieutenant Colon? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jon Gabriel wrote: If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if we are going to start pulling up people every time they make a spelling mistake or a typing error, it's going to degenerate very very quickly. I know Ritu is very proud of her heritage and all that, but it was a simple error that we all make every day - maybe Jan deserved the benefit of the doubt as well. Cheers Russell C. (and if I've made a typo in this, just forgive me my sins and move on...) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especially not to address ones intelligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Why would it make me feel worse? Because I spell worse than anyone else? I always do, I am on the extreme end of the axis. What does tend to irritate me is when people point to someone who is mildly dyslexic and use them as an example of someone with dyslexia who has learned to spell. And then make the leap to say that I, and other dyslexics like me are lazy. That would be like pointing to someone who is hard of hearing and saying that since they can hear a little bit, that all deaf people would be able to hear better if they just tried harder. Let me put it this way, If anyone can tell me exactly how they remember what the proper spelling of words are, then I could learn it. Not just how you learned, but the mechanical process you use. It is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to do this. The part of the brain most use to remember proper spellings is automatic. It works in much the same way that your hand will recoil from a hot surface. And that same part of the dyslexic brain doesn't do the same thing. It's not damaged, it does work, it just doesn't do that process. The non-dyslexic doesn't require language to follow a logical or organized set of rules because the part of their brain they use to process the language doesn't work that way. The dyslexic requires a logical set of rules. They don't remember disjointed facts, they remember systems, abstractions, and connections. If the rules are broken (as they are in most natural languages), then no system will fit, and what you get is a somewhat chaotic response. I don't feel sorry for myself or bad because I spell poorly, I simply don't believe that %20 of the population should be subject to harassment because of their genetics. If %20 of people have (at least some) difficulty with the way Language is constructed, and yet do not have difficulty with any other system, then it is language, and not the dyslexic which is broken. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 03:02 PM 7/31/03 -0400, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Extra points for identifying the writer's religion. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. Transposing letters is not what happens when someone is dyslexic. It is most gernelay a case of the brain working faster than the hand can write. While this is generaly a -feature- that dyslexics are more likely to have, the reason that they spell incorectly or have dificulty reading has very very little or nothing at all to do with word or letter order, or word or letter orientation. Most dyslexic children do not at first understand that letter orientation in 2 demensions is important. But this dificulty goes away as soon as the 2d-ness of letters is explained. That view of dyslexia is, in part, what leads to much confusion. The real dificulty has to do with phenomes and the representation of those phenomes. I helped create the following example for a learning center. It is intended to help non-dyslexics understand how a dyslexic views the system of symbolic language we use. It is for most a very frustraiting puzzle, and while I can not show it in this format with the colours that were intended, and while the lack of colour leaves the puzzle a bit open, I think you will get the idea. These letters represent english sounds, and corospond to a colour which will be used as the key. j - orange sh - red i - bluee - purple l - green r - yellow i - brown u - white v - black n - aqua s - pink t - baby blue oo - bright green the sentecne reads: [orngeish red] [bluish purple] [yelowish green] [tan] [very dark blueish green] [pink] [baby blue] [bright green almost white] [green] [purpleish blue] [cream] [very dark greenish blue so dark it is almost black] Translate the sentence into english. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. He was never diagnosed. Managed to compensate to the point where they wouldn't have diagnosed it. Realized it later. His father is also somewhat dyslexic. Never stopped him from being a good engineer. Now, I think the thing to do when you encounter someone with atrocious spelling is, try to figure everything out from context; if the context leaves a word or two in an ambiguous state, ask the poster what they meant. Paraphrase the two (or more) possible meanings of the sentence, and ask which one they meant. And don't be mean about it. And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know ...dyslexia... And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. As long as we are on the subject - French words give me the most difficulty. to the point that I often try and abbreviate rather than phoneticize. To answer your question: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. I was referring to the guy who wrote the article for which this thread is named. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 05:09 PM 7/31/03 -0700, you wrote: --- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know ...dyslexia... And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. As long as we are on the subject - French words give me the most difficulty. to the point that I often try and abbreviate rather than phoneticize. To answer your question: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. I was referring to the guy who wrote the article for which this thread is named. OK. The military rank is spelled Colonel (even though it is pronounced the same way as a kernel of corn) and abbreviated Col. In the US Army, Lieutenant Colonel is usually abbreviated LTC (all caps), while in the US Air Force, the usual abbreviation found in official documents would be Lt. Col. Then there are the English, who pronounce lieutenant as if it were spelled left-tennant (though they spell it the same way as in the US) . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Leftennant Kernal for those of us who recognise Queen Elizabeth II. If Lieutenant is a french word, we say leftennant and USA'ns say Lootenant, what do the French say? Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Russell Chapman wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if we are going to start pulling up people every time they make a spelling mistake or a typing error, it's going to degenerate very very quickly. I know Ritu is very proud of her heritage and all that, but it was a simple error that we all make every day - maybe Jan deserved the benefit of the doubt as well. 1) What he said. 2) I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt anyway, but that's just 'cause I've read all her posts. :) 3) I'm one of those people who doesn't mind spelling errors pointed out; I spell fairly well and keep a dictionary at hand so I can double-check spelling (and it turns out that some of the words I'm checking, I would have gotten wrong with it). There are a few others who don't mind it, as well. But when in doubt, maybe ask off-list how the poster feels about corrections to spelling. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 10:20 AM 8/1/03 +1000, Russell Chapman wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Leftennant Kernal for those of us who recognise Queen Elizabeth II. If Lieutenant is a french word, we say leftennant and USA'ns say Lootenant, what do the French say? oui -- soo -- ren -- der ;-) -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. Where does this statistic come from? Jim ___ Express Yourself - Share Your Mood in Emails! Visit www.SmileyCentral.com - the happiest place on the Web. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn!Blankenship Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:37 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies At 03:02 PM 7/31/03 -0400, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Extra points for identifying the writer's religion. Mine, William Goodall's or David Howard's? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: The very act of ridiculing, or even admiting to being able to recognize misspellings suggests that the person is from the %80 of the population that is more likely to be unremarkable. So, Ritu, my sincerist appologies. *lol* Since you phrase this so charmingly, I accept the same with my thanks. :) Seriously though, I didn't know you were dyslexic and I was merely trying to clarify if the word was a typo or if you were talking about else altogether. I meant neither ridicule nor attack and I am sorry that my mail made you feel that way. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Do you really want to make it persoanl? becouse we can do that. Go ahead and try me. I am not quite sure how to respond to this. Given the context, I thought you meant 'Indian' [papers here are full off the out-sourcing issues and the way people are reacting], but I might as well have been mistaken. So I asked for a clarification. Is that wrong? Ritu PS - I haven't received any mails from the list since 7 am Thursday morning and just found this mail and lots of others at the archives. I'd be grateful if Nich or Julia could tell me if I have been unsubbed or the problem lies with my ISP/something else. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This paper was written 5 years ago The Seven Factors These key failure factors are: Restrictions on the free flow of information. The subjugation of women. Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure. The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization. Domination by a restrictive religion. A low valuation of education. Low prestige assigned to work. http://denbeste.nu/external/Peters01.html The best quote IMHO: The failure is greater where the avoidance of responsibility is greater. In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, oil money has masked cultural, social, technical, and structural failure for decades. While the military failure of the regional states has been obvious, consistent, and undeniable, the locals sense--even when they do not fully understand--their noncompetitive status in other spheres as well. It is hateful and disorienting to them. Only the twin blessings of Israel and the United States, upon whom Arabs and Persians can blame even their most egregious ineptitudes, enable a fly-specked pretense of cultural viability. Agreed with many points, disagreed with several -- good read. I especially agreed with: The more dogmatic and exclusive the religion, the less it is able to deal with the information age, in which multiple truths may exist simultaneously, and in which all that cannot be proven empirically is inherently under assault. We live in a time of immense psychological dislocation--when man craves spiritual certainty even more than usual. Yet our age is also one in which the sheltering dogma cripples individuals and states alike. The price of competitiveness is the courage to be uncertain--not an absence of belief, but a synthetic capability that can at once accommodate belief and its contradictions... Debbi VFP Flexibility __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Russell Chapman wrote: If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if we are going to start pulling up people every time they make a spelling mistake or a typing error, it's going to degenerate very very quickly. I know Ritu is very proud of her heritage and all that, but it was a simple error that we all make every day - maybe Jan deserved the benefit of the doubt as well. But it had *nothing* to do with pride in my heritage or any such thing! I merely wanted to know if he *was* talking about Indians. This was the first mail I received in this thread [well, given that this was the second last mail I received from Brin-L, it is was the *only* mail I read on the subject until I checked the archives this morning] and I wanted to know if what I was reading was an American reaction to an issue which dominates the newspapers and magazines here. I don't pull up people for spelling mistakes or typing errors but when I am not sure of what a word means, I ask for a clarification. I regret that I didn't ask him off-list and that the manner of my asking caused him pain. But I just wanted to know. Ritu - Sify Mail - now with Anti-virus protection powered by Trend Micro, USA. Know more at http://mail.sify.com Sify Power mail- a Premium Service from Sify Mail! know more at http://mail.sify.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
This paper was written 5 years ago The Seven Factors These key failure factors are: Restrictions on the free flow of information. The subjugation of women. Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure. The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization. Domination by a restrictive religion. A low valuation of education. Low prestige assigned to work. http://denbeste.nu/external/Peters01.html The best quote IMHO: The failure is greater where the avoidance of responsibility is greater. In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, oil money has masked cultural, social, technical, and structural failure for decades. While the military failure of the regional states has been obvious, consistent, and undeniable, the locals sense--even when they do not fully understand--their noncompetitive status in other spheres as well. It is hateful and disorienting to them. Only the twin blessings of Israel and the United States, upon whom Arabs and Persians can blame even their most egregious ineptitudes, enable a fly-specked pretense of cultural viability. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
There are dangers there. Take these seven factors and turn them around. Some of them will not sound so pleasing once you get under the surface and down to the WHY the Lt. Cln. addresses. A highly effective society could also emplode with tyrany. What kind of life are we willing to have where we work all the time and never play. What happens when those at the top realize that they can tap and use these 7 failures to their advantage? What happens when all of the -real work- is farmed out to Indea, China, and Mexico? Where will the middle income family be to buy all those electronics and software? If all tangible goods are produced in other countries, how will the Americans afford to buy all that stuff? They Won't but that wont matter to the most wealthy becouse they don't care who buys the goods, just as long as someone does. You may complain and contradict this by saying that it is just like the issue with women entering the workforce. I agree that any subjugation of any group is wrong. And on principle I agree that women should be, and inherently are, equal. However, the emergant property is very troubeling. I do not wish to be 70 and working long hours every day. What kind of life is it where you get out of bed go to work, leave work, come home and go directly to bed? Many do that now, and are proud of it. They are nothing but drones doing the bidding of those who spend most of their day on the gulf course. I look at it and one word comes to mind. That word is slavery. No thanks! That is NOT Life or Librity, and certainly NOT the persuit of happyness. And due to the very fact taht education in these other places simply is not what it is in the US, you get a lower quality product. You get product that fall apart, or do not work as designed. Or worse only product that has a complexity low enough to be built in a waterfall fasion rather than thought through and perfected. While I personaly agree with the Cln. on every one of the 7 points, the underlying issue (the 8th habit) is much much more troubeling. The 8th habit is [ Intrest by society for the individual to maintain a high quality of life.]. --- Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This paper was written 5 years ago The Seven Factors These key failure factors are: Restrictions on the free flow of information. The subjugation of women. Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure. The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization. Domination by a restrictive religion. A low valuation of education. Low prestige assigned to work. http://denbeste.nu/external/Peters01.html The best quote IMHO: The failure is greater where the avoidance of responsibility is greater. In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, oil money has masked cultural, social, technical, and structural failure for decades. While the military failure of the regional states has been obvious, consistent, and undeniable, the locals sense--even when they do not fully understand--their noncompetitive status in other spheres as well. It is hateful and disorienting to them. Only the twin blessings of Israel and the United States, upon whom Arabs and Persians can blame even their most egregious ineptitudes, enable a fly-specked pretense of cultural viability. Nerd From Hell ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: However, the emergant property is very troubeling. I do not wish to be 70 and working long hours every day. What kind of life is it where you get out of bed go to work, leave work, come home and go directly to bed? Many do that now, and are proud of it. They are nothing but drones doing the bidding of those who spend most of their day on the gulf course. I look at it and one word comes to mind. That word is slavery. Depends on the individual and the work. I can cite one case that's probably *extremely* out of the ordinary where a 70-year-old, laid off and eligible for a pension, took the pension and spent the next 10 months trying to find *another* job in his field, and didn't admit he was probably never going to have such a job again until near the end of those 10 months. (And it's not as if he couldn't have afforded to retire 10 years earlier.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Restrictions on the free flow of information. The subjugation of women. Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure. The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization. Domination by a restrictive religion. A low valuation of education. Low prestige assigned to work. I'm afraid I can see some of these factors beginning to affect the USA (not all). Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: However, the emergant property is very troubeling. I do not wish to be 70 and working long hours every day. What kind of life is it where you get out of bed go to work, leave work, come home and go directly to bed? Many do that now, and are proud of it. They are nothing but drones doing the bidding of those who spend most of their day on the gulf course. I look at it and one word comes to mind. That word is slavery. Depends on the individual and the work. I can cite one case that's probably *extremely* out of the ordinary where a 70-year-old, laid off and eligible for a pension, took the pension and spent the next 10 months trying to find *another* job in his field, and didn't admit he was probably never going to have such a job again until near the end of those 10 months. (And it's not as if he couldn't have afforded to retire 10 years earlier.) Julia You misunderstand me. That's not what I am talking about. I would love to be working and productive at 70. However, I don't want to be unemployed becouse I cost more than some shlup in Indea who will work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the cost. And what is more, I don't want to work 80 hours a week. I would, after all, like to be alive so that I can be working and productive at 70. How about you? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: However, the emergant property is very troubeling. I do not wish to be 70 and working long hours every day. What kind of life is it where you get out of bed go to work, leave work, come home and go directly to bed? Many do that now, and are proud of it. They are nothing but drones doing the bidding of those who spend most of their day on the gulf course. I look at it and one word comes to mind. That word is slavery. Depends on the individual and the work. I can cite one case that's probably *extremely* out of the ordinary where a 70-year-old, laid off and eligible for a pension, took the pension and spent the next 10 months trying to find *another* job in his field, and didn't admit he was probably never going to have such a job again until near the end of those 10 months. (And it's not as if he couldn't have afforded to retire 10 years earlier.) Julia You misunderstand me. That's not what I am talking about. I would love to be working and productive at 70. However, I don't want to be unemployed becouse I cost more than some shlup in Indea who will work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the cost. And what is more, I don't want to work 80 hours a week. I would, after all, like to be alive so that I can be working and productive at 70. How about you? And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. It's not about US verses Them. It is about keeping US jobs in the US and about rewarding loyal citizens for that citizenship and productivity which has made us greate. If you want one world governemnt then fine, but that should mean that they (that all) should get all the protections we in the us are having taken away from us daily. Until there is a world government Corporations who got where they are through the work of the US citizen should not then be allowed to take those Jobs elsewhere. They recieve tax breakes specificaly becouse they are expected to use those tax breaks to create more jobs here in the US. If instead they create those jobs in other countries, then they are steeling from the US taxpayer. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
