RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I'd ask them if they have examples of sites they know are using warez software... :-) At 03:48 PM 1/8/2003, you wrote: At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? jd ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. If people steal JRun and CFMX/J2EE, then BlueDragon loses it's price advantage? If people steal BlueDragon, then they have an even greater price advantage over JRun/CFMX? There are people who will rip you off no matter what you do, as I'm sure Macromedia is well aware. Fortunately for both of us, there are enough honest people and companies that honor license agreements (most people and companies, in my opinion) that we can make a living in this business. For those people and companies, the difference between $4300/CPU and $1000/server might be significant. Besides all that, I've often felt that I'd rather have people steal my software than pay for my competitors. ;-) Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Besides all that, I've often felt that I'd rather have people steal my software than pay for my competitors. ;-) Even stolen software is free advertising. :) s. isaac dealey954-776-0046 new epoch http://www.turnkey.to lead architect, tapestry cms http://products.turnkey.to tapestry api is opensource http://www.turnkey.to/tapi certified advanced coldfusion 5 developer http://www.macromedia.com/v1/handlers/index.cfm?ID=21816 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
While our company is quite anal about licensing issues (in that every instance is accounted for and all new software monitored/tracked) on a personal level my belief is that pirated software has its placesome may think that's a ridiculous statement but I truly think it can help drive market penetration and developer bases... Stace -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:42 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. If people steal JRun and CFMX/J2EE, then BlueDragon loses it's price advantage? If people steal BlueDragon, then they have an even greater price advantage over JRun/CFMX? There are people who will rip you off no matter what you do, as I'm sure Macromedia is well aware. Fortunately for both of us, there are enough honest people and companies that honor license agreements (most people and companies, in my opinion) that we can make a living in this business. For those people and companies, the difference between $4300/CPU and $1000/server might be significant. Besides all that, I've often felt that I'd rather have people steal my software than pay for my competitors. ;-) Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! [OT]
At 2:05 PM 1/9/3, Haggerty, Mike wrote: That's not fair! Please reread. tx, jd ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
That's not fair! New Atlanta is just building another app server to parse CF code and emulating each and every function they can, while adding in a few features to impress the gurus here and there. Despite the fact they are trying to undercut Macromedia's price, this product was built over time at great expense, and has worth in the marketplace, what makes New Atlanta seem like a parasite? I'm sure there is a better word... M -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 10:41 AM 1/9/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:48 PM 1/8/3, John Dowdell wrote: At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. It's a pretty simple question. I'll rephrase it. If you reduce your equation to initial cost, such as with that ad you posted there, then how do you logically deal with people who find ways to reduce your prices still further? Do you use that it's illegal line, the might-makes-right argument Rob mentioned? Or might you point out how it's valuable to compensate the people who actually create a technology, how this is an investment in future work? Or do you perhaps have some other way to deal with parasites like that...? jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 10:41 AM 1/9/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:48 PM 1/8/3, John Dowdell wrote: At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. It's a pretty simple question. I'll rephrase it. If you reduce your equation to initial cost, such as with that ad you posted there, then how do you logically deal with people who find ways to reduce your prices still further? Do you use that it's illegal line, the might-makes-right argument Rob mentioned? Or might you point out how it's valuable to compensate the people who actually create a technology, how this is an investment in future work? Or do you perhaps have some other way to deal with parasites like that...? jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 05:05 PM 1/9/2003, you wrote: Despite the fact they are trying to undercut Macromedia's price, this product was built over time at great expense, and has worth in the marketplace, what makes New Atlanta seem like a parasite? I'm sure he was talking about software pirates, not New Atlanta, since the thread has shifted a bit towards warez.. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
instance is accounted for and all new software monitored/tracked) on a personal level my belief is that pirated software has its placesome may think that's a ridiculous statement but I truly think it can help drive market penetration and developer bases... well when cf4 finally hit the pirate shops here in the big mango, i knew it had arrived as a real market force ;-) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
The way I read it (and I have some experience in this area): If you sell on price alone (or stress price) your product will be perceived to be worth less. If that's what you are selling (price) then that's what I will be tempted to bargain (haggle). Once you start down that path, the natural tendency is to keep lowering the price. For example, you can get a lot of PC for the price of $600-$700, but: is that all you have to sell, price? what's it worth? can I get it for less? does anybody make any money at these prices? I think the original poster was telling Vince that he should be selling BlueDragon on it's capabilities, and, oh, by the way, it costs less money. Selling More for less as opposed to Less (perceived) for less Dick On Thursday, January 9, 2003, at 03:02 PM, Benjamin S. Rogers wrote: I've read each of your posts several times and I still can't fathom what you're trying to say. You seem to be arguing that by being less expensive, New Atlanta opens themselves up to a greater degree of piracy? This seems to fly in the face of common sense, so either my interpretation is incorrect or I just don't understand your logic. As for your tone, well, I would expect better from a Macromedia employee. Statements like it's a pretty simple question just sound demeaning. You referred to his post, which was completely in context to the thread, as an ad. Even if it is an ad, and I don't believe so, might you have taken the higher road instead of taking a pot shot at a competitor? Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: John Dowdell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 10:41 AM 1/9/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:48 PM 1/8/3, John Dowdell wrote: At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. It's a pretty simple question. I'll rephrase it. If you reduce your equation to initial cost, such as with that ad you posted there, then how do you logically deal with people who find ways to reduce your prices still further? Do you use that it's illegal line, the might-makes-right argument Rob mentioned? Or might you point out how it's valuable to compensate the people who actually create a technology, how this is an investment in future work? Or do you perhaps have some other way to deal with parasites like that...? jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I've read each of your posts several times and I still can't fathom what you're trying to say. You seem to be arguing that by being less expensive, New Atlanta opens themselves up to a greater degree of piracy? This seems to fly in the face of common sense, so either my interpretation is incorrect or I just don't understand your logic. As for your tone, well, I would expect better from a Macromedia employee. Statements like it's a pretty simple question just sound demeaning. You referred to his post, which was completely in context to the thread, as an ad. Even if it is an ad, and I don't believe so, might you have taken the higher road instead of taking a pot shot at a competitor? Benjamin S. Rogers http://www.c4.net/ v.508.240.0051 f.508.240.0057 -Original Message- From: John Dowdell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 4:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 10:41 AM 1/9/3, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 3:48 PM 1/8/3, John Dowdell wrote: At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? I've read this several times, and I'm still trying to understand your point. It's a pretty simple question. I'll rephrase it. If you reduce your equation to initial cost, such as with that ad you posted there, then how do you logically deal with people who find ways to reduce your prices still further? Do you use that it's illegal line, the might-makes-right argument Rob mentioned? Or might you point out how it's valuable to compensate the people who actually create a technology, how this is an investment in future work? Or do you perhaps have some other way to deal with parasites like that...? jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! [OT]
That's not fair! Please reread. Uh, I've reread it, and I don't understand your original statement either. At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? As I said, I still don't get it. If you're referring to the BlueDragon product itself, I'd imagine that New Atlanta would feel the same way about piracy of their products as Macromedia surely does. Theft is theft, whether you steal a $3k product or a $1k product. I'd also imagine that you can get both on a warez site, if you look hard enough, although that's purely conjecture on my part. If, on the other hand, you're referring to Tomcat, well, you don't need to go to a warez site to get that, since it's already free. It's a pretty simple question. I'll rephrase it. If you reduce your equation to initial cost, such as with that ad you posted there, then how do you logically deal with people who find ways to reduce your prices still further? Do you use that it's illegal line, the might-makes-right argument Rob mentioned? Yes, I find that to be a wonderful approach. I wouldn't call it might-makes-right, I'd call it the rule of law. That's how we deal with most similar issues. To me, this argument is analogous to saying that the fact that a Toyota is cheaper than a Jaguar is unimportant to a prospective new car owner, since you can steal whichever you like. Of course, there will be those who steal things - we call them criminals, generally - but their behavior isn't relevant to how law-abiding people behave. As far as it being an ad, well, if only all the advertisements I read were so simple. It's a simple statement of fact. Those are the prices of the respective products. Personally, I think that CFMX is worth the difference in most cases, but that has no bearing on the accuracy of the ad copy. Or might you point out how it's valuable to compensate the people who actually create a technology, how this is an investment in future work? Or do you perhaps have some other way to deal with parasites like that...? It's up to a vendor to set their own prices, and I'd imagine that most vendors do this by estimating how many people will buy the product at various prices and choosing the price point that will make them the most money. Finally, I suspect that there isn't all that much piracy of application server products, compared to software piracy in general. If you can afford the rest of the infrastructure involved in running an application server (network, physical machines, OS licenses, backup, support, development labor costs, etc), you won't have any trouble paying lots of money for an application server, and you'll want the support that the vendor provides. Usually, I find your posts to be very clear, well-written and illuminating, so maybe I'm missing something here. I'd appreciate further elaboration if you don't mind. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Come on Vince until you get up to the full library of CFML then its worth paying for :-) -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 January 2003 02:40 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
You're right, most Unix folks will want that kind of control. Frankly, I want that kind of control, I happen to like the command-line. However, many, many Mac users are not hardcore Unix users - not yet anyway. A lot of them are still skeptical of the Terminal as it's been unknown to them until OSX came out. I just think an option would be good ... For those of us who want the control we could certainly have it, but provide an installer that works like most other Mac apps. You don't really have to dive into the Terminal to install Dreamweaver and that's what most Mac users are used to at this point. At any rate, it's only a small suggestion. I don't think anyone on this list has had any issues with the installation routine - it certainly beats the compile on Linux method that Dick came up with. It's not a hard install, just not what a lot of Mac users are going to be familiar with. By the way, you can just double-click on that JAR file instead of typing: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar I'm still stunned it's available, any installation routine makes me happy right now :) Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:45 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Quoting Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Well, as long as you can't buy 32 CPU Mac's ... Jochem -- Friends don't let friends use table-based layouts. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Sean A Corfield wrote: On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) I would at least change the default folder (directory). Currently, the CFMF installer uses: /opt which is hidden on Jaguar (Jag-wire, as pronounced by Steve) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx mkdir cfusion mkdir CFIDE cd CFIDE jar xvf path to/CFMXJ2ee/rds.war cd ../cfusion jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Then there is the step (step 9) configuring graphics support -- which I have found to be unnecessary, and can be ignored. Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... I agree with this for experienced Unix users. This is especially true if you deploy multiple server instances and/or multiple cfmx contexts under a server instance. But I think some things that could be done to make it simpler and more Mac like (in the next update). Have the default option (procdure): 1) Deploy from a single .ear file rather than 2 .war files 2) Hot deploy from the JRun JMC (maybe using the compressed, downloaded CFMX file as a source -- avoid the decompress and war/ear decision, altogether. 3) Include instructions on how to create a connector to Apache in the install procedure. Finally, make as much of the install procedure as possible automatic for first time users by providing a shell script and/or double-clickabble program with all the defaults set and the proper actions taken to install/deplow a single server with a single cfmx context and a single CFIDE context -- a quick-start option. I especially like the way that JRun installs: Download Automatic Decompress Double-Click Installer Default path = /Applications/JRun4 (This coming from the guy who built the Ugly Port procedure) But, like Joshua and others have said, I am happy with what MM has provided) -- It is no more difficult than installing/deploying other applications. Dick Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 03:31 AM, Jochem van Dieten wrote: Quoting Vince Bonfanti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Well, as long as you can't buy 32 CPU Mac's ... Well, rumor has it that I have been told by others on this list that per-CPU charges are normal for this type of application, And, that if you are deploying on robust installations with multiple boxes/CPUs, that support is more of a cost consideration than acquisition cost. All things being equal, lower costs would be better. But BlueDragon/Tomcat does not equal CFMXJ2EE/Tomcat or CFMXJ2EE/JRun -- so acquisition cost is only one parameter in the decision. Interesting, though, the Mac OS Server software does not charge per CPU -- here's a quote from the apple site: No per-user taxes Xserve lets you eliminate the most galling expense in your departments budget: the per-user tax youve been obliged to pay for using server software. Since Xserve comes with an unlimited-client license for the UNIX-based, industrial-strength Mac OS X Server, you can serve thousands of additional users without spending thousands of additional dollars in licensing fees. I assume that this is similar to Linux, and one of the reasons that Linux is attractive to large users. Dick Jochem -- Friends don't let friends use table-based layouts. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Yes, BlueDragon allows you to create WAR files to deploy on any J2EE server, but you've got the licensing reversed. BlueDragon is free for development (like CFMX), so there's no cost for the development machines to create the WARs. Licensing for BlueDragon/J2EE for Windows/Linux/UNIX is $2499/CPU for deployment servers, and you can deploy as many WARs as you want on a licensed server at that price. We haven't formally announced it or updated our online store yet, but deployment licenses for BlueDragon/J2EE on Mac OS X are $1000/server for deploying an unlimited number of WARs. Contact our sales staff ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to get this pricing. Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Samuel Neff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:37 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I've got nothing against BlueDragon, but JRun for the extra $3300 gives me little things like EJB, JMS, JXTA, and a whole bunch of other acronyms I can't understand. One group I worked with was migrating legacy CF (~4.0) app to Websphere 4.0. That project died and would have been a gimme for CFMX -- but by the time the CFMX for J2EE version was out they were deep in EJB-land. JRun/CFMX remains an option; WebSphere/CFMX remains an option. Bluedragon doesn't unless I move up to for J2EE which costs 2499/CPU. Isn't there a Bluedragon product that creates WAR files for deployment on any J2EE server, whereby the only Bluedragon cost is for the development machine used to create the WAR? Perhaps I misread something... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Come on Vince until you get up to the full library of CFML then its worth paying for :-) -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 January 2003 02:40 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Flash Remoting? -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Come on Vince until you get up to the full library of CFML then its worth paying for :-) -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 January 2003 02:40 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
He said things that CF5/MX can't do -- MX can do flash remoting. ;) ~Todd At 10:11 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: Flash Remoting? -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Flash Remoting J2EE is available as a standalone EAR that can be deployed with BlueDragon is you so desire. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Flash Remoting? -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Come on Vince until you get up to the full library of CFML then its worth paying for :-) -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 January 2003 02:40 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. Sorry should have been more specific. -Original Message- From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! He said things that CF5/MX can't do -- MX can do flash remoting. ;) ~Todd At 10:11 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: Flash Remoting? -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
And indeed BlueDragon already does things CFMX can't do e.g. deploy without CFML source. Of course if anyone asked me, I would really like to see an eval function a la Lisp. The eval function would take a string of CFML and execute it. I believe BlueDragon's architecture is better suited to implementing this function than ColdFusion's. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Todd Rafferty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! He said things that CF5/MX can't do -- MX can do flash remoting. ;) ~Todd At 10:11 AM 1/8/2003 -0500, you wrote: Flash Remoting? -Original Message- From: Vince Bonfanti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Well, not according to our customers who have already paid for it. :-) Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. What BlueDragon does for these customers is allow them to immediately and cost-effectively migrate their legacy CF applications to a J2EE environment without rewriting them in JSP, and then enhance the applications using either JSP or CFML, whichever is more appropriate. Having said all that, we're of course working towards full compliance with CF5/MX. We already have C++ CFXs and CORBA working and in use by two of our customers--look for these in a future BlueDragon release. Other features high on our list are: COM (CF5), Verity-like search (CF5), full support for internationalization (CFMX), and XML (CFMX). CFCs and web services will probably take a little longer. We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ http://www.devmx.com/ -- ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
CFMXJ2EE Suggestions - WAS (RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!)
Another thing is that it's kind of annoying is that I have to manually start Jrun ... I know, I know, shellscript, but that's Greek a lot of Unix/OSX newbies. Starting Jrun/CFMX by default on bootup would be nice. Or at least package a shellscript and instructions on how to set it up. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Sean A Corfield wrote: On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) I would at least change the default folder (directory). Currently, the CFMF installer uses: /opt which is hidden on Jaguar (Jag-wire, as pronounced by Steve) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx mkdir cfusion mkdir CFIDE cd CFIDE jar xvf path to/CFMXJ2ee/rds.war cd ../cfusion jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Then there is the step (step 9) configuring graphics support -- which I have found to be unnecessary, and can be ignored. Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... I agree with this for experienced Unix users. This is especially true if you deploy multiple server instances and/or multiple cfmx contexts under a server instance. But I think some things that could be done to make it simpler and more Mac like (in the next update). Have the default option (procdure): 1) Deploy from a single .ear file rather than 2 .war files 2) Hot deploy from the JRun JMC (maybe using the compressed, downloaded CFMX file as a source -- avoid the decompress and war/ear decision, altogether. 3) Include instructions on how to create a connector to Apache in the install procedure. Finally, make as much of the install procedure as possible automatic for first time users by providing a shell script and/or double-clickabble program with all the defaults set and the proper actions taken to install/deplow a single server with a single cfmx context and a single CFIDE context -- a quick-start option. I especially like the way that JRun installs: Download Automatic Decompress Double-Click Installer Default path = /Applications/JRun4 (This coming from the guy who built the Ugly Port procedure) But, like Joshua and others have said, I am happy with what MM has provided) -- It is no more difficult than installing/deploying other applications. Dick Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers
RE: CFMXJ2EE Suggestions - WAS (RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!)
Can you get xinetd to start it ? Haven't tried it but it should be possible/ That why it will only start when you use it ... WG -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 January 2003 17:29 To: CF-Talk Subject: CFMXJ2EE Suggestions - WAS (RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!) Another thing is that it's kind of annoying is that I have to manually start Jrun ... I know, I know, shellscript, but that's Greek a lot of Unix/OSX newbies. Starting Jrun/CFMX by default on bootup would be nice. Or at least package a shellscript and instructions on how to set it up. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Sean A Corfield wrote: On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) I would at least change the default folder (directory). Currently, the CFMF installer uses: /opt which is hidden on Jaguar (Jag-wire, as pronounced by Steve) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx mkdir cfusion mkdir CFIDE cd CFIDE jar xvf path to/CFMXJ2ee/rds.war cd ../cfusion jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Then there is the step (step 9) configuring graphics support -- which I have found to be unnecessary, and can be ignored. Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... I agree with this for experienced Unix users. This is especially true if you deploy multiple server instances and/or multiple cfmx contexts under a server instance. But I think some things that could be done to make it simpler and more Mac like (in the next update). Have the default option (procdure): 1) Deploy from a single .ear file rather than 2 .war files 2) Hot deploy from the JRun JMC (maybe using the compressed, downloaded CFMX file as a source -- avoid the decompress and war/ear decision, altogether. 3) Include instructions on how to create a connector to Apache in the install procedure. Finally, make as much of the install procedure as possible automatic for first time users by providing a shell script and/or double-clickabble program with all the defaults set and the proper actions taken to install/deplow a single server with a single cfmx context and a single CFIDE context -- a quick-start option. I especially like the way that JRun installs: Download Automatic Decompress Double-Click Installer Default path = /Applications/JRun4 (This coming from the guy who built the Ugly Port procedure) But, like Joshua and others have said, I am happy with what MM has provided) -- It is no more difficult than installing/deploying other applications. Dick Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 07:07 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: Seriously, the basic profile of our customers so far are people who are migrating from ColdFusion to J2EE. That is, they have legacy CF 4.5 or 5.0 applications, but have made a strategic decision to do all future development in J2EE. Therefore, the lack of support for CFMX features is a non-issue, and the few CF5 features BlueDragon doesn't support are similarly a non-issue. That's interesting. I figured BlueDragon and Macromedia ColdFusion MX were aimed at different markets but that's the first time I've gotten a real handle on the BD target market. It's a shame that some CF folks are going that way but it's better than them going to .NET I guess :) Our of curiosity, can you give us a rough breakdown of which applications servers you're seeing people move to? Is it the free ones like Tomcat and JBoss or is it the commercial ones? I ask because I know you went to a lot of effort to support some of the commercial app servers (BD's WAR creation wizard has specific check boxes for one of them but I can't remember which). We also have some other things under development that we think will be very interesting to the CFML community, things that CF5/MX can't do. Stay tuned... It's an exciting time for CFML! Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 06:55 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: Yes, BlueDragon allows you to create WAR files to deploy on any J2EE server, but you've got the licensing reversed. BlueDragon is free for development (like CFMX), so there's no cost for the development machines to create the WARs. Could you clarify something for me Vince? The free developer edition cannot create WARs - you need a deployment license to actually create the WAR files, yes? It also seems you would only need one such license in an entire CF shop since folks can develop locally and then copy all the CF code to the server that has WAR creation enabled and create your Web Application archive (not much money to be made from that tho'). Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Per CPU / Per User (was: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 03:56 US/Pacific, Dick Applebaum wrote: Interesting, though, the Mac OS Server software does not charge per CPU -- here's a quote from the apple site: No per-user taxes Xserve lets you eliminate the most galling expense in your departments budget: the per-user tax youve been obliged to pay for using server software. Since Xserve comes with an unlimited-client license for the UNIX-based, industrial-strength Mac OS X Server, you can serve thousands of additional users without spending thousands of additional dollars in licensing fees. Note that Apple is talking about per USER licensing, not per CPU licensing. If you buy a 2 CPU JRun license for your dual CPU Xserve, you can handle an unlimited number of users. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Good points, all round. Thanx Dick! I've forwarded this to the product team (and cc'd Christian of course). On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 03:41 US/Pacific, Dick Applebaum wrote: On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Sean A Corfield wrote: On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) I would at least change the default folder (directory). Currently, the CFMF installer uses: /opt which is hidden on Jaguar (Jag-wire, as pronounced by Steve) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx mkdir cfusion mkdir CFIDE cd CFIDE jar xvf path to/CFMXJ2ee/rds.war cd ../cfusion jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Then there is the step (step 9) configuring graphics support -- which I have found to be unnecessary, and can be ignored. Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... I agree with this for experienced Unix users. This is especially true if you deploy multiple server instances and/or multiple cfmx contexts under a server instance. But I think some things that could be done to make it simpler and more Mac like (in the next update). Have the default option (procdure): 1) Deploy from a single .ear file rather than 2 .war files 2) Hot deploy from the JRun JMC (maybe using the compressed, downloaded CFMX file as a source -- avoid the decompress and war/ear decision, altogether. 3) Include instructions on how to create a connector to Apache in the install procedure. Finally, make as much of the install procedure as possible automatic for first time users by providing a shell script and/or double-clickabble program with all the defaults set and the proper actions taken to install/deplow a single server with a single cfmx context and a single CFIDE context -- a quick-start option. I especially like the way that JRun installs: Download Automatic Decompress Double-Click Installer Default path = /Applications/JRun4 (This coming from the guy who built the Ugly Port procedure) But, like Joshua and others have said, I am happy with what MM has provided) -- It is no more difficult than installing/deploying other applications. Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 03:16 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: You're right, most Unix folks will want that kind of control. Frankly, I want that kind of control, I happen to like the command-line. However, many, many Mac users are not hardcore Unix users - not yet anyway. A lot of them are still skeptical of the Terminal as it's been unknown to them until OSX came out. Good point. I tend to forget that since I've been running Unix on top of my Macs for... hmm, best part of ten years. I used to have Tenon Intersystems' Mach Ten product running on my old 520c and my PowerMac Performa, back in the day (BSD 4.3 based on Mach 2.5 kernel, with X11R5). I think it's nice to see X11 natively available now... By the way, you can just double-click on that JAR file instead of typing: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar Shows how much of a command-line geek I am - that never occurred to me. For real hardcore, you can run it in console mode (useful for remote installs): java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar -i console I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true - I no longer know how to use my telephone. -- Bjarne Stroustrup ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
The free BlueDragon developer edition can create WARs, but you need a license key to create the WAR (the license key for the deployment server). You need a separate license key for each deployment server--if your shop has only one deployment server then you only need one key, regardless of how many WAR files you deploy on that server. Thanks for your interest in BlueDragon. ;-) Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 06:55 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: Yes, BlueDragon allows you to create WAR files to deploy on any J2EE server, but you've got the licensing reversed. BlueDragon is free for development (like CFMX), so there's no cost for the development machines to create the WARs. Could you clarify something for me Vince? The free developer edition cannot create WARs - you need a deployment license to actually create the WAR files, yes? It also seems you would only need one such license in an entire CF shop since folks can develop locally and then copy all the CF code to the server that has WAR creation enabled and create your Web Application archive (not much money to be made from that tho'). Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Yeah, we have users here that have been on Mac since day 1 that we're going to have to force onto OSX. My boss has a gorgeous TiBook and it blew me away the first time I looked at the screen and saw it running OS9.2 I was floored when I went to school and started using Macs in the 90's ... I saw there was no command line and I said What if something goes wrong, how do I get into the terminal ... Then I realized nothing ever went wrong :) It is nice to have the power of Unix now though, but a lot of old-school Mac users still find the terminal daunting. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 1:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 03:16 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: You're right, most Unix folks will want that kind of control. Frankly, I want that kind of control, I happen to like the command-line. However, many, many Mac users are not hardcore Unix users - not yet anyway. A lot of them are still skeptical of the Terminal as it's been unknown to them until OSX came out. Good point. I tend to forget that since I've been running Unix on top of my Macs for... hmm, best part of ten years. I used to have Tenon Intersystems' Mach Ten product running on my old 520c and my PowerMac Performa, back in the day (BSD 4.3 based on Mach 2.5 kernel, with X11R5). I think it's nice to see X11 natively available now... By the way, you can just double-click on that JAR file instead of typing: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar Shows how much of a command-line geek I am - that never occurred to me. For real hardcore, you can run it in console mode (useful for remote installs): java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar -i console I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true - I no longer know how to use my telephone. -- Bjarne Stroustrup ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Our of curiosity, can you give us a rough breakdown of which applications servers you're seeing people move to? Is it the free ones like Tomcat and JBoss or is it the commercial ones? I ask because I know you went to a lot of effort to support some of the commercial app servers (BD's WAR creation wizard has specific check boxes for one of them but I can't remember which). Two: Those with money are headed towards WebSphere. Those without money or OSS-oriented are moving to JBoss. In my current/past/future client list, 2 are WS, 6-8 are headed JBoss, 1 went WebLogic (and DB2 -- go figure. you'd think IBM would help them out to get both products in there). Articles I've read recently (and of course recycled) implied the top three J2EE servers are Websphere, JBoss, and some other one not necessarily in that order -- you (MM) guys probably have access to better industry sales data and reports than I do. If you're building an app to target multiple J2EE enviroments you inevitable run into issues with resource descriptors, the security API, etc, even between versions of the same J2EE app server can be significant when using it for anything non-trivial. I went through the sales process in a previous project -- before they said license our app and ColdFusion for each server. Easy to calculate the price in that scenario Price = product + (CF license * # of servers) But now for a mixed CF/J2EE app, the price of an app built using CFMX and J2EE is Price = product + (CFMX license * # of servers) + (J2EE license * # of servers # number of processor/server) Pretty clear to see that from a cost perspective, you want that last factor to drop right back out of the equation! And that means JBoss. Or it may mean moving to Solaris and getting SunONE for free. And look at the details -- let's say the price of the app you're selling is $10k. $10k plus $799 for CF5 Pro on the dual proc production server and the dual proc stage server is a nobrainer -- less that 15% of total. And it's easy to manage CF -- the IT team doesn't scream to loudly. Now take the newer scenario -- my app is $10k plus $3400*4 for J2EE CFMX on four procs plus let's say $3-4k/processor for a good deal from IBM on Websphere. Now the licenses cost *twice* what the application does. Plus now you also need someone capable of managing a Java app server on the IT team, or training, or even more to contract it out. Of course this is also a solid argument for avoiding J2EE features in a ColdFusion MX app :) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Last I checked, WebLogic had the largest market share in the J2EE space followed closely behind WebSphere. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:55 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Our of curiosity, can you give us a rough breakdown of which applications servers you're seeing people move to? Is it the free ones like Tomcat and JBoss or is it the commercial ones? I ask because I know you went to a lot of effort to support some of the commercial app servers (BD's WAR creation wizard has specific check boxes for one of them but I can't remember which). Two: Those with money are headed towards WebSphere. Those without money or OSS-oriented are moving to JBoss. In my current/past/future client list, 2 are WS, 6-8 are headed JBoss, 1 went WebLogic (and DB2 -- go figure. you'd think IBM would help them out to get both products in there). Articles I've read recently (and of course recycled) implied the top three J2EE servers are Websphere, JBoss, and some other one not necessarily in that order -- you (MM) guys probably have access to better industry sales data and reports than I do. If you're building an app to target multiple J2EE enviroments you inevitable run into issues with resource descriptors, the security API, etc, even between versions of the same J2EE app server can be significant when using it for anything non-trivial. I went through the sales process in a previous project -- before they said license our app and ColdFusion for each server. Easy to calculate the price in that scenario Price = product + (CF license * # of servers) But now for a mixed CF/J2EE app, the price of an app built using CFMX and J2EE is Price = product + (CFMX license * # of servers) + (J2EE license * # of servers # number of processor/server) Pretty clear to see that from a cost perspective, you want that last factor to drop right back out of the equation! And that means JBoss. Or it may mean moving to Solaris and getting SunONE for free. And look at the details -- let's say the price of the app you're selling is $10k. $10k plus $799 for CF5 Pro on the dual proc production server and the dual proc stage server is a nobrainer -- less that 15% of total. And it's easy to manage CF -- the IT team doesn't scream to loudly. Now take the newer scenario -- my app is $10k plus $3400*4 for J2EE CFMX on four procs plus let's say $3-4k/processor for a good deal from IBM on Websphere. Now the licenses cost *twice* what the application does. Plus now you also need someone capable of managing a Java app server on the IT team, or training, or even more to contract it out. Of course this is also a solid argument for avoiding J2EE features in a ColdFusion MX app :) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 02:55 PM 1/8/2003, you wrote: And look at the details -- let's say the price of the app you're selling is $10k. $10k plus $799 for CF5 Pro on the dual proc production server and the dual proc stage server is a nobrainer -- less that 15% of total. And it's easy to manage CF -- the IT team doesn't scream to loudly. Now take the newer scenario -- my app is $10k plus $3400*4 for J2EE CFMX on four procs plus let's say $3-4k/processor for a good deal from IBM on Websphere. Now the licenses cost *twice* what the application does. Plus now you also need someone capable of managing a Java app server on the IT team, or training, or even more to contract it out. Is 10k for an app realistic? If a company is paying 10k for the app they're like to use a shared hosting environment. Most of the times we have to take purchasing software into account is when the app itself is already over $100k, so the relative cost of the server software is smaller. BTW, the price for CFMX for J2EE is also per processor, so equation is: Price = product + (CFMX license + J2EE license) * # of servers * # number of processor/server ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
That client had 5 backend apps for higher education -- each was $10-50k. Some schools ran one, some ran all 5. The schools w/ all 5 had a proportionately smaller cost for the server but the math still sort of holds -- Old: 5 apps = 50k + 1.5k (inconsequential) New: 5 apps = 50k + 24k (50%) if they bundle it, it looks like a SIGNIFICANT price increase. Of course one would hope for a feature increase as well, or that they already have the J2EE server and just need to buy CFMX like they would CF. But the base point is still valid -- CFMX for J2EE + a J2EE server is pretty price neutral compared to CF5 if the J2EE server cost drops out (being JBoss, SunOne on a Solaris box that was going to be purchased anyhow, or if the J2EE server is already purchased for other purposes). So anything that drops that J2EE price accelerates J2EE/CFMX hybrid apps. That's why I'd really love to see a JBoss version. It doesn't help MM sell JRun copies, but that's already a pretty small slice and I'd guess to accelerate adoption of Jrun using CFMX as a lever , you'd want to bundle CFMX for free or close to it. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, anything that drops the price of CFMX for J2EE *without drastically changing MM's costs* is a good thing. So CFMX for JBoss requires MM to increase support costs internally since it's another app server, but it avails CFMX for J2EE to a *potentially* larger audience. To be devil's advocate -- maybe all those JBoss folks just want to use Java for everything and aren't interested in CFMX/JBoss hybrid environments. Could be the case -- I'm not a marketer. I just personally want to be able to deploy CFMX apps to JBoss (or Bluedragon). Maybe if I keep hoping really hard, it will be like CFMX for OSX -- it will just happen. Right before the big JavaOne conference You listening MM?!? :) Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Samuel R. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:37 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 02:55 PM 1/8/2003, you wrote: And look at the details -- let's say the price of the app you're selling is $10k. $10k plus $799 for CF5 Pro on the dual proc production server and the dual proc stage server is a nobrainer -- less that 15% of total. And it's easy to manage CF -- the IT team doesn't scream to loudly. Now take the newer scenario -- my app is $10k plus $3400*4 for J2EE CFMX on four procs plus let's say $3-4k/processor for a good deal from IBM on Websphere. Now the licenses cost *twice* what the application does. Plus now you also need someone capable of managing a Java app server on the IT team, or training, or even more to contract it out. Is 10k for an app realistic? If a company is paying 10k for the app they're like to use a shared hosting environment. Most of the times we have to take purchasing software into account is when the app itself is already over $100k, so the relative cost of the server software is smaller. BTW, the price for CFMX for J2EE is also per processor, so equation is: Price = product + (CFMX license + J2EE license) * # of servers * # number of processor/server ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Yes, good points, just one question. Isn't JBoss not a complete J2EE server--excludes servlets and jsp, thus requiring another option for that such as Tomcat but can be others? If that's the case, doesn't it make the JBoss port that much harder to create an support... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
JBoss is an EJB container and (usually) comes packaged with either Jetty or Tomcat for the web container. With either one, it fills out the whole stack of J2EE components. Sort of like Tomcat is not a J2EE server since it's a web container missing an EJB container. The JBoss/Jetty and JBoss/Tomcat distributions are full J2EE servers. The big thing is that it's not yet J2EE-certified by Sun (there's an explanation on their FAQ. Mainly it costs a lot to be a J2EE licensee to get officially certified. And Sun has some... issues .. with JBoss. Sort of like when they had issues with Tomcat/Jakarta/Apache a while back). Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Samuel R. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Yes, good points, just one question. Isn't JBoss not a complete J2EE server--excludes servlets and jsp, thus requiring another option for that such as Tomcat but can be others? If that's the case, doesn't it make the JBoss port that much harder to create an support... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Those issues have been resolved and JBoss is on its way to being the very first J2EE 1.4 certified application server. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JBoss is an EJB container and (usually) comes packaged with either Jetty or Tomcat for the web container. With either one, it fills out the whole stack of J2EE components. Sort of like Tomcat is not a J2EE server since it's a web container missing an EJB container. The JBoss/Jetty and JBoss/Tomcat distributions are full J2EE servers. The big thing is that it's not yet J2EE-certified by Sun (there's an explanation on their FAQ. Mainly it costs a lot to be a J2EE licensee to get officially certified. And Sun has some... issues .. with JBoss. Sort of like when they had issues with Tomcat/Jakarta/Apache a while back). Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Samuel R. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Yes, good points, just one question. Isn't JBoss not a complete J2EE server--excludes servlets and jsp, thus requiring another option for that such as Tomcat but can be others? If that's the case, doesn't it make the JBoss port that much harder to create an support... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 12:59 PM, John Paul Ashenfelter wrote: So anything that drops that J2EE price accelerates J2EE/CFMX hybrid apps. That's why I'd really love to see a JBoss version. Which version of JBoss? The JBoss site shows these versions: Packages Size Date JBoss-3.0.4.zip (includes JBossWeb HTTP server and JSP/Servlet engine, EJB, CMP2.0, JCA, IIOP, Clustering, JTS, JMX and more) 28.7M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4_Tomcat-4.1.12.zip (with integrated Tomcat 4.1.12 instead of JBossWeb) 32.2M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4_Tomcat-4.0.6.zip (with integrated Tomcat 4.0.6 instead of JBossWeb) 31.3M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4-src.tgz (JBoss 3.0.4 source code) 20.8M November 11, 2002 CCFMXJ2EE on the Mac also has install instructions for Tomcat -- it works great! I never got around trying it on JBoss but I will now! Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: CFMXJ2EE Suggestions - WAS (RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!)
On Wednesday, Jan 8, 2003, at 09:28 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: Another thing is that it's kind of annoying is that I have to manually start Jrun ... I know, I know, shellscript, but that's Greek a lot of Unix/OSX newbies. Starting Jrun/CFMX by default on bootup would be nice. Or at least package a shellscript and instructions on how to set it up. startjruncfmx.sh #!/bin/sh cd /Applications/JRun4/bin ./jrun start admin /dev/null ./jrun start cfmx /dev/null Then maybe you can just add the shell script as a Login Item (haven't tried). ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Good question. But you get the same sort of versioning w/ WebSphere, etc. Ever tried moving from JRun 3.0 to 3.1? Or Websphere 4.0 to 4.01? Ouch! I'll take what I can get. If I was MM, though, I'd want to shoot for JBoss 4 for J2EE 1.4 where JBoss has the best shot at getting officially certified. Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Dick Applebaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, January 8, 2003, at 12:59 PM, John Paul Ashenfelter wrote: So anything that drops that J2EE price accelerates J2EE/CFMX hybrid apps. That's why I'd really love to see a JBoss version. Which version of JBoss? The JBoss site shows these versions: Packages Size Date JBoss-3.0.4.zip (includes JBossWeb HTTP server and JSP/Servlet engine, EJB, CMP2.0, JCA, IIOP, Clustering, JTS, JMX and more) 28.7M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4_Tomcat-4.1.12.zip (with integrated Tomcat 4.1.12 instead of JBossWeb) 32.2M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4_Tomcat-4.0.6.zip (with integrated Tomcat 4.0.6 instead of JBossWeb) 31.3M November 11, 2002 JBoss-3.0.4-src.tgz (JBoss 3.0.4 source code) 20.8M November 11, 2002 CCFMXJ2EE on the Mac also has install instructions for Tomcat -- it works great! I never got around trying it on JBoss but I will now! Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
There's an article at Register http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/53/28472.html about it. I have to admit I don't understand how JBoss 4.0 can be J2EE 1.4 certified if it leaves out all the web services APIs. But I really don't know much about the JCP and the requirements for J2EE certification. I am happy that Sun's seeing the light (just as they did when they tried to muscle Tomcat/Jakarta) Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:31 PM Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Those issues have been resolved and JBoss is on its way to being the very first J2EE 1.4 certified application server. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JBoss is an EJB container and (usually) comes packaged with either Jetty or Tomcat for the web container. With either one, it fills out the whole stack of J2EE components. Sort of like Tomcat is not a J2EE server since it's a web container missing an EJB container. The JBoss/Jetty and JBoss/Tomcat distributions are full J2EE servers. The big thing is that it's not yet J2EE-certified by Sun (there's an explanation on their FAQ. Mainly it costs a lot to be a J2EE licensee to get officially certified. And Sun has some... issues .. with JBoss. Sort of like when they had issues with Tomcat/Jakarta/Apache a while back). Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Samuel R. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:07 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Yes, good points, just one question. Isn't JBoss not a complete J2EE server--excludes servlets and jsp, thus requiring another option for that such as Tomcat but can be others? If that's the case, doesn't it make the JBoss port that much harder to create an support... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? jd John Dowdell, Macromedia Developer Support, San Francisco (Best to reply on-list, to avoid my mighty spam filters!) Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/search/ Column: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/jd_forum/ Technical daily diary: http://jdmx.blogspot.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that illegal? :) I wonder how the BBB feels about building you're business on stolen software - let alone the lawyers... are we talking about a sole proprietorship? Aren't you personally legally tied to the business if it is? That's what I would say/ask. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net -Original Message- From: John Dowdell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 6:39 PM 1/7/3, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Hmm... how do you respond to people who point out that they can get if for free on a warez site...? jd ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Yup, already running it :) Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 18:39 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU FREE for development using the Developer Editions. CFMX for J2EE JRun Mac OS X edition is not currently a supported production deployment platform - only a development platform. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 06:39 PM, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Tomcat + CFMX for J2EE = Free + $3400/CPU = $3400/CPU Just to make the numbers right! But, is cost of acquisition the issue? If so, BlueDragon wins. What is the value of a J2EE-Certified app server (JRun). What is the value of latest version of CFML? What is the value of Clustering/Load-balancing, multiple server deployment.? I haven't looked at BlueDragon recently, so I do not know if these features are available. The point I am trying to make is that they are different products for different users. Dick Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I do have to say, BlueDragon does work very well on OSX and was a breeze to get running ... It will be interesting to try them both out. The one bonus for BlueDragon is that it is supported as a production environment, but again, CFMX is straight from the source. It's starting to get interesting in the Mac camp :) Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 18:39 US/Pacific, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU FREE for development using the Developer Editions. CFMX for J2EE JRun Mac OS X edition is not currently a supported production deployment platform - only a development platform. Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
are you deploying on OS X? or do you plan to? i would be interested in your input. thanks... mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I do have to say, BlueDragon does work very well on OSX and was a breeze to get running ... It will be interesting to try them both out. The one bonus for BlueDragon is that it is supported as a production environment, but again, CFMX is straight from the source. It's starting to get interesting in the Mac camp :) Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I've got nothing against BlueDragon, but JRun for the extra $3300 gives me little things like EJB, JMS, JXTA, and a whole bunch of other acronyms I can't understand. One group I worked with was migrating legacy CF (~4.0) app to Websphere 4.0. That project died and would have been a gimme for CFMX -- but by the time the CFMX for J2EE version was out they were deep in EJB-land. JRun/CFMX remains an option; WebSphere/CFMX remains an option. Bluedragon doesn't unless I move up to for J2EE which costs 2499/CPU. So JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU JRun 4 + BlueDragon for J2EE = $900/CPU + 2499/CPU = $3400/CPU ($4400 with support) not *that* big a cost savings. Plus if I need Flash Remoting, what's that go for -- something like $900 more? But cost is a poor comparison. Studies show blah blah hard/software are 10/20/30% of project total cost over time. blah blah maintenance. And I've got my fingers crossed that you guys get everything straight with JBoss which becomes Tomcat/Jetty/etc + JBoss + BlueDragon for J2EE = $0/CPU + $0/CPU + 2499/CPU = $2499/CPU ($3499 with support) Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Dick Applebaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 9:55 PM Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 06:39 PM, Vince Bonfanti wrote: JRun 4 + CFMX = $900/CPU + $3400/CPU = $4300/CPU Tomcat + BlueDragon = Free + $1000/server = $1000/server Tomcat + CFMX for J2EE = Free + $3400/CPU = $3400/CPU Just to make the numbers right! But, is cost of acquisition the issue? If so, BlueDragon wins. What is the value of a J2EE-Certified app server (JRun). What is the value of latest version of CFML? What is the value of Clustering/Load-balancing, multiple server deployment.? I haven't looked at BlueDragon recently, so I do not know if these features are available. The point I am trying to make is that they are different products for different users. Dick Vince Bonfanti New Atlanta Communications, LLC http://www.newatlanta.com/bluedragon -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. You can now download JRun 4 for Mac OS X and CFMX for J2EE (JRun) for Mac OS X. That let's you serve CFMX-compatible CFML from your Mac. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Well, we've been testing BlueDragon on an in-house application to see how well it works under OSX. Our plan was to test, then if it seemed viable, deploy our intranet on it to watch it perform under a real-world scenario, then if that goes smoothly, we're going replace our 3rd party Windows app server with an in-house Xserve. So far it's been great, BlueDragon is really a pretty mature product. Our biggest issue so far has been adjusting to working in the J2EE context. If CFMXJ2EE were a product that were available to use in production and if the cost wasn't so great that it was prohibitive to our budget you can bet you're a$$ I'd be pushing to switch over first thing in the AM :) I'll be using CFMXJ2EE as my personal production environment but will continue with our evaluation path for BlueDragon. One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. I got it running, right away and I'm not complaining, this is more than I'd hoped for, but for the sake of using this as a transition period to a full-product that's my first piece of input. Make a standard OSX installer routine that can run a basic from-scratch install of JRun4 and CFMX together and configure everything correctly. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:17 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! are you deploying on OS X? or do you plan to? i would be interested in your input. thanks... mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I do have to say, BlueDragon does work very well on OSX and was a breeze to get running ... It will be interesting to try them both out. The one bonus for BlueDragon is that it is supported as a production environment, but again, CFMX is straight from the source. It's starting to get interesting in the Mac camp :) Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
-Original Message- From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:16 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I've got nothing against BlueDragon, but JRun for the extra $3300 gives me little things like EJB, JMS, JXTA, and a whole bunch of other acronyms I can't understand. One group I worked with was migrating legacy CF (~4.0) app to Websphere 4.0. That project died and would have been a gimme for CFMX -- but by the time the CFMX for J2EE version was out they were deep in EJB-land. JRun/CFMX remains an option; WebSphere/CFMX remains an option. Bluedragon doesn't unless I move up to for J2EE which costs 2499/CPU. Isn't there a Bluedragon product that creates WAR files for deployment on any J2EE server, whereby the only Bluedragon cost is for the development machine used to create the WAR? Perhaps I misread something... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Isn't there a Bluedragon product that creates WAR files for deployment on any J2EE server, whereby the only Bluedragon cost is for the development machine used to create the WAR? Perhaps I misread something... A WAR file is fine unless you're actually taking advantage of J2EE features like EJB, JMS, etc. Then you're looking at an EAR file (Enterprise ARchive) and a ton of other issues. Lots of confusion over EJB, J2EE, etc typically on this list. I'll give it a shot though it's late and I'm weary :) An EJB container is required for a complete J2EE implementation. That and the Web container and whatever other current java acronyms -- I actually don't know of the top of my head (JMS, JCA, JMX, etc). But the point is that *BY ITSELF* Tomcat is not a full J2EE implementation -- it's at best a J2EE-compliant Web container. It's missing all the truly *enterprise* J2EE components. JBoss has the whole J2EE spec -- the web container (supplied by Jetty or Tomcat) and EJB container, etc in JBoss. They have a good diagram http://www.jboss.org/overview.jsp. Same thing with JRun, Websphere, BEA, and WebLogic -- they have the EJB and Web containers plus all the rest (JCA, JMX, and dozens of other acronyms required for J2EE compliance :) For pure Coldfusion (e.g. a WAR), there's only minimal advantage to running it under JRun, etc as opposed to CFMX Enterprise. (I'm talking architecture here -- not performance which I haven't tested) If you *are* taking advantage of serious J2EE and using CF as part of that (as a replacement, let's say for a Java Struts front-end or an alternative to a .NET client), then you're probably after the EJB features and you *must* have an EJB container, thus a full-fledged J2EE app server. Not Tomcat. Maybe Tomcat and JBoss -- but I don't think MM is there yet for CFMX on JBoss. I'd put my money on BlueDragon for that one -- someone from MM want to chime in? Jesse? That said, the one large scale ($1 M) project I've seen with ColdFusion/Java EJB was a nightmare (probably management, definitely iXcoughcoughLcoughdefunct consultants/architects). Of course that was pre CFMX so no surprise. (for the record, it's now it's pure struts/EJB on JBoss). Someone else chime in and help me out. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: One thing I will offer as a suggestion is to dumb-down the installation proceedure for CFMXJ2EE on OSX. A lot of OSX users are still getting comfortable with the Terminal and it's still scary for a lot of developers who don't have a lot of experience with server installation and maintenance. Rather than running terminal sessions and editing config files, have an option for basic install that does all these things for you. Could you give some specific examples about what needs to be improved here? I agree that being given a .jar file is not quite as user-friendly as some people might expect but it really isn't that bad: java -jar coldfusion-j2ee-java.jar (run through the GUI installer which dumps a CFMXJ2ee folder somewhere) In JMC (JRun Management Console), Create New Server (e.g., cfmx). Then: cd /Applications/JRun4/servers/cfmx jar xvf path/to/CFMXJ2ee/cfusion.war Are you suggesting make all of this go away? Doing the manual install is pretty flexible and that's what many Unix folks would expect... Sean A Corfield -- Director, Architecture Web Technology Group -- Macromedia, Inc. tel: (415) 252-2287 -- cell: (415) 717-8473 aim/iChat: seancorfield -- http://www.macromedia.com An Architect's View -- http://www.macromedia.com/go/arch_blog ColdFusion MX and JRun 4 now available for Mac OS X! http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/proom/pr/2003/jrun_osx.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, Dec 11, 2002, at 07:11 US/Pacific, Joshua Miller wrote: I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! I just posted the following to the BACFUG list - after Vince's presentation to the user group tonight. ||| forwarded message ||| I found Vince's talk about JSP for CFers very interesting. I am somewhat familiar with JSP but to see a side-by-side comparison like this was enlightening, especially the section on the new JSTL specification. Vince's demo of BlueDragon - more or less in place of the usual QA session - was also worth seeing. Vince showed how you can develop CF applications using BD on Tomcat and then deploy as a 'compiled' Web Archive file to a different J2EE application server - he took Ben Forta's CF5 Construction Kit as an example, showed it running on BD/Tomcat and then created a .war file which he then deployed to BEA's WebLogic and showed it running. Impressive. And, as I had to concede, something that is not possible with CFMX at the moment. I had already downloaded both the Tomcat installer and the BlueDragon trial about a month ago but had been too busy to actually install either. While Vince talked, I installed Tomcat and BlueDragon in just a few minutes: tar xvfz jakarta-tomcat-4.1.12.tar.gz mv jakarta-tomcat-4.1.12 /home/tomcat tar xvfz BlueDragon.tar.gz cp -r BlueDragon_J2EE /home/tomcat/webapps/bd cd /home/tomcat/bin ./startup.sh Then hit http://localhost:8080/bd/bluedragon/admin.cfm and explored the BlueDragon administrator. Simple but effective. The developer edition pops up an alert every 20 requests which is kind of annoying but a very effective way to ensure no one tries to deploy to production! Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Two points. First, JBoss is available for many platforms including OS X. Second, BlueDragon doesn't require a full J2EE server; it can run with just a servlet engine. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
JBoss is written in Java, it should run on the Mac... Why not choose the J2EE version if he is running Tomcat? -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, December 11, 2002, 10:22:13 AM, you wrote: KO I'm very interested... KO are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you KO choose the J2EE version? KO Thanks KO Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an KO easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download KO BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that KO it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? KO All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone KO else is interested. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Matt I'd like to play around with using EJBs and CFM. So this set up would seem to support that. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Two points. First, JBoss is available for many platforms including OS X. Second, BlueDragon doesn't require a full J2EE server; it can run with just a servlet engine. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Tomcat is a J2EE server (not certified I don't think) - I did it this way just because it was all free and easy to download and install. I'm sure if someone makes a J2EE server for Mac that you could use something other than Tomcat. Since NONE of the Macromedia products work on Mac without a major workaround this seemed the simplest option. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Where can you get some EJB's to play with/ TIA Dick On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Kola Oyedeji wrote: Matt I'd like to play around with using EJBs and CFM. So this set up would seem to support that. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Two points. First, JBoss is available for many platforms including OS X. Second, BlueDragon doesn't require a full J2EE server; it can run with just a servlet engine. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 *** * * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
It was a matter of using what I know. I've used Apache/Tomcat before, so it was simple for me to setup. If you know Jboss or some other J2EE server then use that - I just don't have the time or need for anything more than that. For now it's going to be used as a development environment on my notebook, if it works well and performs well it may warrant purchasing an Xserve for our intranet applications. Most of our company uses Mac hardware and it would be nice for us to keep a consistant platform for all of our internal applications. The only reason we haven't bought an Xserve to date is because our intranet required something besides Mac - now that may change. Although this is my first step with BlueDragon and I'm not 100% comfortable with a technology that will always be one step behind the current implementation of CFML, but since Macromedia has no foreseeable plans to port to Mac this may be the best we can expect. Not to put down BlueDragon that is - it may hold more potential than CFMX - I don't want to pass judgment until I've used it some. One thing I will say is don't expect to copy your application over and have it work straight-away. I have yet to find where you can map include directories and a lot of my apps depend on a global include directory where I store UDFs, JavaScripts, etc. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:49 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! JBoss is written in Java, it should run on the Mac... Why not choose the J2EE version if he is running Tomcat? -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Wednesday, December 11, 2002, 10:22:13 AM, you wrote: KO I'm very interested... KO are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did KO you choose the J2EE version? KO Thanks KO Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an KO easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download KO BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that KO it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? KO All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone KO else is interested. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Toys 'R' Us :O) -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 16:17 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Where can you get some EJB's to play with/ TIA Dick On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 07:52 AM, Kola Oyedeji wrote: Matt I'd like to play around with using EJBs and CFM. So this set up would seem to support that. Thanks. -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:30 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Two points. First, JBoss is available for many platforms including OS X. Second, BlueDragon doesn't require a full J2EE server; it can run with just a servlet engine. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 *** * * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** * * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Tomcat is a J2EE server (not certified I don't think) - I did it this way just because it was all free and easy to download and install. I'm sure if someone makes a J2EE server for Mac that you could use something other than Tomcat. Since NONE of the Macromedia products work on Mac without a major workaround this seemed the simplest option. Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. I noticed in one of your other emails that you're using Tomcat and Apache together... We tried running an app with Tomcat and Apache. Damn thing kept trashing the server. Turns out there is known issue with the tomcat/apache connector and we were recommended to use JBoss and Jetty with Apache instead. Just so people know, Michael set up a Bluedragon list on the HOF mailserver, so if anyone is interested in talking specifically about Bluedragon, then get yourself signed up over there. http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists Regards Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 05:49 PM 12/11/2002, you wrote: Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
At 05:49 PM 12/11/2002, you wrote: Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... whoops there was supposed to be a now on the end of that sentence For a while it _was_ being called a J2EE server, but in actual fact wasn't entirely J2EE compliant in order to be certified as a J2EE server. Tomcat is now J2EE compliant and certified, I believe. Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Seems odd that Tomcat and Apache don't play well together - since you go to APACHE.ORG to get Tomcat. Seems like they would have ironed that out pretty quickly. Any word on a fix? Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Tomcat is a J2EE server (not certified I don't think) - I did it this way just because it was all free and easy to download and install. I'm sure if someone makes a J2EE server for Mac that you could use something other than Tomcat. Since NONE of the Macromedia products work on Mac without a major workaround this seemed the simplest option. Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. I noticed in one of your other emails that you're using Tomcat and Apache together... We tried running an app with Tomcat and Apache. Damn thing kept trashing the server. Turns out there is known issue with the tomcat/apache connector and we were recommended to use JBoss and Jetty with Apache instead. Just so people know, Michael set up a Bluedragon list on the HOF mailserver, so if anyone is interested in talking specifically about Bluedragon, then get yourself signed up over there. http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists Regards Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 10:03 AM, Samuel R. Neff wrote: Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... If you go to Sun's site Tomcat is *Not* listed as a certified J2ee server. HTH Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 09:49 AM, Stephen Moretti wrote: I noticed in one of your other emails that you're using Tomcat and Apache together... We tried running an app with Tomcat and Apache. Damn thing kept trashing the server. Turns out there is known issue with the tomcat/apache connector and we were recommended to use JBoss and Jetty with Apache instead. I am experimenting with Tomcat and Apache on Mac OS X -- haven't noticed any problem trashing the server (or any other problems, for that matter). Do you have any specifics on the known issue? TIA Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
There seems to be confusion on what J2EE compliant means AFAIK Tomcat _IS_ a J2EE compliant _Servlet_ container (and JSP) Tomcat _IS_NOT_ a J2EE compliant _EJB_ container Thats why you can get Jboss with Tomcat or JBoss with JBossWeb... WG Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... whoops there was supposed to be a now on the end of that sentence For a while it _was_ being called a J2EE server, but in actual fact wasn't entirely J2EE compliant in order to be certified as a J2EE server. Tomcat is now J2EE compliant and certified, I believe. Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Tomcat is NOT a J2EE server; it is a servlet engine. Tomcat does not implement J2EE functionality like EJBs and JMS. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 11:08 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Tomcat is a J2EE server (not certified I don't think) - I did it this way just because it was all free and easy to download and install. I'm sure if someone makes a J2EE server for Mac that you could use something other than Tomcat. Since NONE of the Macromedia products work on Mac without a major workaround this seemed the simplest option. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I'm very interested... are there any J2EE servers available for the MAC? If not why did you choose the J2EE version? Thanks Kola -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 11 December 2002 15:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! I know this is probably nothing special, but getting an easy-to-install CFML engine on my Mac just made my day! If you're interested, just use the default Apache installation, then download Tomcat from http://jakarta.apache.org, then download BlueDragon for J2EE from www.newatlanta.com and install them in order (Apache, Tomcat, BlueDragon) - Now you can serve CFML from your Mac. I know this isn't fully CFMX compatable, but I'm certainly happy that it runs on the Mac. Wonder why it's not officially supported on Mac? All of the UNIX files worked just fine without any trouble/tweaking. Anyway, just thought I'd post my success to the list in case anyone else is interested. Joshua Miller Head Programmer / IT Manager Garrison Enterprises Inc. www.garrisonenterprises.net http://www.garrisonenterprises.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (704) 569-9044 ext. 254 * Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender states them to be the views of Garrison Enterprises Inc. This e-mail is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and contains information that is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please delete it immediately and advise us by return e-mail to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] * ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
I don't know of anyone using that list. Everybody seems to be using the New Atlanta BlueDragon list. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:50 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! Tomcat is a J2EE server (not certified I don't think) - I did it this way just because it was all free and easy to download and install. I'm sure if someone makes a J2EE server for Mac that you could use something other than Tomcat. Since NONE of the Macromedia products work on Mac without a major workaround this seemed the simplest option. Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. I noticed in one of your other emails that you're using Tomcat and Apache together... We tried running an app with Tomcat and Apache. Damn thing kept trashing the server. Turns out there is known issue with the tomcat/apache connector and we were recommended to use JBoss and Jetty with Apache instead. Just so people know, Michael set up a Bluedragon list on the HOF mailserver, so if anyone is interested in talking specifically about Bluedragon, then get yourself signed up over there. http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists Regards Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
It is the reference implementation of servlets and JSP. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Samuel R. Neff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 05:49 PM 12/11/2002, you wrote: Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
From the Tomcat web site... Tomcat is the servlet container that is used in the official Reference Implementation for the Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages technologies. The Java Servlet and JavaServer Pages specifications are developed by Sun under the Java Community Process. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Stephen Moretti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! At 05:49 PM 12/11/2002, you wrote: Tomcat wasn't certified, because it didn't quite meet all the J2EE requirements, but I believe it is fully J2EE certified/compliant etc. Tomcat isn't certified J2EE?? I thought it was the reference implementation of J2EE... whoops there was supposed to be a now on the end of that sentence For a while it _was_ being called a J2EE server, but in actual fact wasn't entirely J2EE compliant in order to be certified as a J2EE server. Tomcat is now J2EE compliant and certified, I believe. Stephen ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Hi Joshua, Please review our platform matrix at: http://www.newatlanta.com/products/bluedragon/system_requirements.cfm (Aside: Note [.cfm] ... Our wesite runs both JSPs and CFML using BlueDragon..) You will notice that for BlueDragon Server 3.0, we list supported environments by operating system. (Since it bundles ServletExec and JTurbo, the os support mirrors that of those products). For BlueDragon 3.0 for J2EE Application Server, we list supported platforms by Applications Server. Since Apache Tomcat works on Windows, LINUX Mac, BlueDragon/J2EE 'should' work fine. After all, it's just Java running within a standard Java Web Application... BlueDragon/J2EE should work on any J2EE platform minimally compliant with the latest JSP/servlet APIs. Officially Supported by our definition means that we have verified a given configuration internally, and that we've written sufficient documentation to explain basic installation, configuration and use. To that end, we know we also work on JBoss and Borland Enterprise Server, among others. In our upcoming service pack release for BlueDragon (early Jan '03), look for updated and expanded official support on other platforms. Regards, Dan [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: Tomcat is NOT a J2EE server; it is a servlet engine. Tomcat does not implement J2EE functionality like EJBs and JMS. Does this mean that CFMXJ2ee won't work on Tomcat? TIA Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Tomcat is not a support deployment server for CFMX for J2EE nor is it even a J2EE application server. The currently supported J2EE application servers are Macromedia JRun, Sun One, and IBM WebSphere. I would expect for Bea WebLogic to be supported soon and for JBoss to be supported in the future. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Dick Applebaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 3:26 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!! On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 11:09 AM, Matt Liotta wrote: Tomcat is NOT a J2EE server; it is a servlet engine. Tomcat does not implement J2EE functionality like EJBs and JMS. Does this mean that CFMXJ2ee won't work on Tomcat? TIA Dick ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
Tomcat is not a support deployment server for CFMX for J2EE nor is it even a J2EE application server. The currently supported J2EE application servers are Macromedia JRun, Sun One, and IBM WebSphere. I would expect for Bea WebLogic to be supported soon and for JBoss to be supported in the future. You think JBoss will be supported? Who'll pay for that integration effort? Also, I was under the impression that JBoss, by itself, doesn't include a servlet engine; you have to use it with Tomcat or Resin or whatever. If that's the case, it seems even less likely that it'll be supported, I think. Of course, I should add the disclaimer that I have no experience with JBoss, so I could be completely off-base. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
You think JBoss will be supported? Who'll pay for that integration effort? Yes, Macromedia of course. My understanding is that JBoss is quickly becoming the 3rd most deployed J2EE application server after BEA and IBM. Most people expect the deployments to substantially increase once JBoss is certified. Right now it is looking like JBoss will be the first application server to receive J2EE 1.4 certification. Also, I was under the impression that JBoss, by itself, doesn't include a servlet engine; you have to use it with Tomcat or Resin or whatever. If that's the case, it seems even less likely that it'll be supported, I think. Of course, I should add the disclaimer that I have no experience with JBoss, so I could be completely off-base. You are correct that JBoss relies generally on Tomcat for its servlet engine. -Matt ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: BlueDragon J2EE on OSX - Working !!!
You are correct that JBoss relies generally on Tomcat for its servlet engine. -Matt The (admitedly few) JBoss developers I know are very into the Jetty servlet engine which is the other commonly bundled configuration of JBoss/web container. The past couple versions (2.4.8+) of JBoss have focused on Tomcat though, so not sure where things are headed long term. FWIW, they made their decision, partially based on performance, nearly a year ago. Regards, John Paul Ashenfelter ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
