subject:"Neat error message"

I do have CF7 installed on my laptop.  I really haven't had time to
tinker with it.  I'm just too busy with current projects.  (and, of course,
I have to save time to watch 24 :o)

I've got a lot of catching up to do, for sure... just wait until I really
try
to develop in CF8... the questions will be coming in hot and heavy!

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:49 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Regardless, I would suggest you install CF7 locally to play with alongside
youé 4.5/5 install and start to learnd/look at CFCs etc and the way CFMX
apps are built as in the most part they are very different, you don't want
to move to 8 just for some widget only to find that you haven't got a clue
how it works or how samples are put together.

I would also getting a good book on Ajax to actually understand how to get
more of our vanilla Ajax as you can bet that an Adobe offerening will be
Spry based (which you can download now but may require MX I am not sure) and
that it will not do everything you expect out of the box from day 1.

You are playing catchup for sure..





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RE: Neat error message

Yep... local (one client not local), but all small businesses... and I
haven't
worked with any web services or really checked into doing so.  Perhaps
even my relatively small sites could benefit from web services that serve
the Real Estate sector, among others.

Where's the best place to look and get an overview and some samples
of what web services could do for me?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:32 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

I am suprised then that you are not wanting to use web services as well
(unless the sites are for local and small shops)





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Re: Neat error message

2007-02-11 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)

You know, I haven't even seen one episode of 24!



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-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sun Feb 11 20:34:44 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

I do have CF7 installed on my laptop.  I really haven't had time to
tinker with it.  I'm just too busy with current projects.  (and, of course,
I have to save time to watch 24 :o)

I've got a lot of catching up to do, for sure... just wait until I really
try
to develop in CF8... the questions will be coming in hot and heavy!

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:49 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Regardless, I would suggest you install CF7 locally to play with alongside
youé 4.5/5 install and start to learnd/look at CFCs etc and the way CFMX
apps are built as in the most part they are very different, you don't want
to move to 8 just for some widget only to find that you haven't got a clue
how it works or how samples are put together.

I would also getting a good book on Ajax to actually understand how to get
more of our vanilla Ajax as you can bet that an Adobe offerening will be
Spry based (which you can download now but may require MX I am not sure) and
that it will not do everything you expect out of the box from day 1.

You are playing catchup for sure..







~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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Re: Neat error message

2007-02-11 Thread Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)

www.Adobe.com/devnet.




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Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
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-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sun Feb 11 20:31:50 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Yep... local (one client not local), but all small businesses... and I
haven't
worked with any web services or really checked into doing so.  Perhaps
even my relatively small sites could benefit from web services that serve
the Real Estate sector, among others.

Where's the best place to look and get an overview and some samples
of what web services could do for me?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 2:32 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

I am suprised then that you are not wanting to use web services as well
(unless the sites are for local and small shops)







~|
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RE: Neat error message

Oh man, Neil... if you like fast, intense action, 24 is for you.

I didn't watch the first two seasons when it first came out.
Just couldn't fathom how a show whose entire season was based
around events that happen in 24 hours could be worth watching.
But when I tore more rotator cuff and broke my arm playing softball,
I had plenty of time to watch TV after surgery.  I rented 24 and
after the first disk of 6 episodes, I was hooked!

Give it a try!  Watching TV without watching 24 is like, well, using
CF 4.5 instead of CF 7 ! :o) (Or so I'm told ;o)

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 5:53 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

You know, I haven't even seen one episode of 24!




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RE: Neat error message

Thanks, Neil...

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 6:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

www.Adobe.com/devnet.








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Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Rick Root

I don't know what version of Codlfusion this person was using, but this
error was just reported by someone attempting to use ImageCFC.

--
An unexpected system error was detected. Error code is 4294934528

This type of error will most likely occur when the server running ColdFusion
is low on memory and/or system resources.
If you continue to experience this error in a reproducible fashion you
should contact Allaire technical support.

The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of
(CFSET), occupying document position (25:9) to (25:60).
--

Note the reference to Allaire technical support!

Assuming that this person is using a modern version of CF... hasn't anyone
at Macromedia heard of Global Find/Replace? =)

Rick
-- 
I'm not certified, but I have been told that I'm certifiable...
Visit http://www.opensourcecf.com today!


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Re: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Doug Brown

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.




- Original Message - 
From: Rick Root [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:23 AM
Subject: Neat error message


 I don't know what version of Codlfusion this person was using, but this
 error was just reported by someone attempting to use ImageCFC.

 --
 An unexpected system error was detected. Error code is 4294934528

 This type of error will most likely occur when the server running
ColdFusion
 is low on memory and/or system resources.
 If you continue to experience this error in a reproducible fashion you
 should contact Allaire technical support.

 The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier
of
 (CFSET), occupying document position (25:9) to (25:60).
 --

 Note the reference to Allaire technical support!

 Assuming that this person is using a modern version of CF... hasn't anyone
 at Macromedia heard of Global Find/Replace? =)

 Rick
 -- 
 I'm not certified, but I have been told that I'm certifiable...
 Visit http://www.opensourcecf.com today!


 

~|
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Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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RE: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Dawson, Michael

Assuming that this person is using a modern version of CF... hasn't
anyone at Macromedia heard of Global Find/Replace? =)

First, replace Allaire with Macromedia.

Then, replace Macromedia with Adobe.

:^)

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RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.





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RE: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Turetsky, Seth

Is it running stable?  And is it your app or you are hosting clients?  I 
remember always having to stop/start 4.5
But then again, seems we are always doing the same to weblogic these days, at 
least our dev server

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:50 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until CF includes 
built-in functionality that significantly addresses the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing or to implement 
Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into my programming than I 
would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking for more effective and engaging ways to 
present information, not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user experience more 
significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better be good.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list 
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we 
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/

Doug B.

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RE: Neat error message

Yep... running great.  Never have any problems other than
a creeping memory usage.  I usually just restart the server
once a week to bring the memory usage back down.
It's probably due to some poor coding back when I first
started.

I don't have any problems with it at all...

Oh, and yes... everything on it is apps and sites that
I've built for clients.  So I do host... I also have one
site that I host for someone that I didn't build.  I just give
them an FTP account and they can login through the FTP
server and gain access to their folder(s) on the web server
via a networked drive.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Turetsky, Seth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 12:15 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Is it running stable?  And is it your app or you are hosting clients?  I
remember always having to stop/start 4.5
But then again, seems we are always doing the same to weblogic these days,
at least our dev server





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Re: Neat error message

Apart from cost (and I know it's a thrashed out debate) you cannot seriously
that there is no compelling reason to not upgrade?! 

CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.

Such as?  Why would you want/need a programming language to cater for this
and in what way? Do you mean more Ajax? More widgeta?






  




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
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our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.







~|
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Re: Neat error message

To add You surely cannot think that CFC, XML etc are not a reason to
upgrade?!

I'm with you on Flash forms though... Total bollox :-)




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
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that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
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-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.







~|
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Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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RE: Neat error message

What I'm saying is that all *I* see, and there is the emphasis on my
understanding,
which is limited to reading about later versions and watching this list, is
that
CF basically has advanced in its data handling capability.

From what I can tell, the tools used are more capable, like CFC's, etc. (now
remember,
I've never even seen a CFC, so my perspective may be sadly lacking), but for
my requirements, CF 4.5 does as good a job as CF 7.

I'm much more concerned about creating more effective presentations of data
than I am about how that data is retrieved or handled in the code.

Now, remember, my sites are small up to this point, so I'm not handling a
massive
amount of transactions or churning a lot of data, where speed is of the
essence.
(and that assumes the CF 7 is always faster than 4.5, which per some
conversations
on this list, I read that it's not)

But I'll put the question to you as well.. and I've asked this before...
what are the
reasons why I should spend $1300 to move from 4.5 to 7?  What will I gain
since
4.5 currently meets my data-handling requirements?

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Apart from cost (and I know it's a thrashed out debate) you cannot seriously
that there is no compelling reason to not upgrade?! 

CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.

Such as?  Why would you want/need a programming language to cater for this
and in what way? Do you mean more Ajax? More widgeta?






  




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.









~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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RE: Neat error message

Again, (and I'm speaking without actual experience with CFC's or XML...)
what does using a CFC or XML provide me that I need right now?
Just a better way to manage data?

(And, as a note in reference to the other post you made and my answer,
Flash forms is an attempt to enhance user experience...)

I believe all program developers (CF, ASP.NET, etc)  will increasingly
attempt to encapsulate
within the languages more and more built-in functionality that addresses the
user experience.  Everyone's so heavy into that with AJAX, Flash, etc.
I really do expect to see much more of this in CF 8...if so, I'm in...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:34 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

To add You surely cannot think that CFC, XML etc are not a reason to
upgrade?!

I'm with you on Flash forms though... Total bollox :-)




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Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.









~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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Re: Neat error message

Ultimately though, the presentation is just, in most cases going to be
HTML/JS so ColdFusion shouldn't really be expected to provide this per se. 

The step up from non-Java ColdFusion is massive in terms of how it works
under the hood and in terms of features and capabilities.

CF7 just does things way, way better than 4.x/5. 

I can see your point in that at this stage your requirements are limited and
CF4 etc meets them but that server is way outdated (even archaic) and that
when a more advanced feature request comes about you could be without a
paddle.







This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
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-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 21:35:12 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

What I'm saying is that all *I* see, and there is the emphasis on my
understanding,
which is limited to reading about later versions and watching this list, is
that
CF basically has advanced in its data handling capability.

From what I can tell, the tools used are more capable, like CFC's, etc. (now
remember,
I've never even seen a CFC, so my perspective may be sadly lacking), but for
my requirements, CF 4.5 does as good a job as CF 7.

I'm much more concerned about creating more effective presentations of data
than I am about how that data is retrieved or handled in the code.

Now, remember, my sites are small up to this point, so I'm not handling a
massive
amount of transactions or churning a lot of data, where speed is of the
essence.
(and that assumes the CF 7 is always faster than 4.5, which per some
conversations
on this list, I read that it's not)

But I'll put the question to you as well.. and I've asked this before...
what are the
reasons why I should spend $1300 to move from 4.5 to 7?  What will I gain
since
4.5 currently meets my data-handling requirements?

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Apart from cost (and I know it's a thrashed out debate) you cannot seriously
that there is no compelling reason to not upgrade?! 

CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.

Such as?  Why would you want/need a programming language to cater for this
and in what way? Do you mean more Ajax? More widgeta?






  




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still

Re: Neat error message

Maybe, but the double edge of that I ease of use and total lack of
understanding of how, in that it's all fine and dandy adding a cfcool to
your tag set but when you need to think and develop outside the box , the
problems arise.

I respect your stance, but I find it insane that you, as a programmer have
not moved with the progress (even to be curious) not only of ColdFusion but
of the internet dev style as a whole, as I noted before the step up to MX is
massive (and I mean of how it all works and what you can do and in what way)
and some of the stuff being generated now in CFMX is stunning for what we
all know as CFML, way beyond the kindergarden CFWACK we all started out on!

CF5 compared to MX is like a Lada to a Ferrari









This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 21:42:06 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Again, (and I'm speaking without actual experience with CFC's or XML...)
what does using a CFC or XML provide me that I need right now?
Just a better way to manage data?

(And, as a note in reference to the other post you made and my answer,
Flash forms is an attempt to enhance user experience...)

I believe all program developers (CF, ASP.NET, etc)  will increasingly
attempt to encapsulate
within the languages more and more built-in functionality that addresses the
user experience.  Everyone's so heavy into that with AJAX, Flash, etc.
I really do expect to see much more of this in CF 8...if so, I'm in...

Rick


-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:34 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

To add You surely cannot think that CFC, XML etc are not a reason to
upgrade?!

I'm with you on Flash forms though... Total bollox :-)




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list
quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can we
expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




Doug B.











~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU

Archive: 
http

Re: Neat error message

Sorry, missed you Q! Well, why should spend it? In your case, there probably
is no reason as you seem to be noting that your requirements are very basic,
but I suppose the argument could also be why use ColdFusion at all? You may
as well just stick with an old skool CGI technology, or even just flat HTML
:-)

I am not sure what your real world examples of your noted increased user
experiences are though? If your talking about Ajax etc then why use
ColdFusion? May as well roll your own using free bespoke tools for the job.





This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
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our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 21:35:12 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

What I'm saying is that all *I* see, and there is the emphasis on my
understanding,
which is limited to reading about later versions and watching this list, is
that
CF basically has advanced in its data handling capability.

From what I can tell, the tools used are more capable, like CFC's, etc. (now
remember,
I've never even seen a CFC, so my perspective may be sadly lacking), but for
my requirements, CF 4.5 does as good a job as CF 7.

I'm much more concerned about creating more effective presentations of data
than I am about how that data is retrieved or handled in the code.

Now, remember, my sites are small up to this point, so I'm not handling a
massive
amount of transactions or churning a lot of data, where speed is of the
essence.
(and that assumes the CF 7 is always faster than 4.5, which per some
conversations
on this list, I read that it's not)

But I'll put the question to you as well.. and I've asked this before...
what are the
reasons why I should spend $1300 to move from 4.5 to 7?  What will I gain
since
4.5 currently meets my data-handling requirements?

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Apart from cost (and I know it's a thrashed out debate) you cannot seriously
that there is no compelling reason to not upgrade?! 

CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.

Such as?  Why would you want/need a programming language to cater for this
and in what way? Do you mean more Ajax? More widgeta?






  




This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
intended recipient(s).  If you are not the intended recipient(s) please note
that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
information in it is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have
received this communication in error please return it to the sender or call
our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
(Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
the user experience.  

I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
not just more effective ways of processing it.

I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
experience more significantly... we'll see.

It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
be good.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the list

Re: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Rick Root

(I said find and replace about Macromedia because they're the ones who
released CFMX 6, 6.1, and 7...)

The guy is trying to use ImageCFC on a shared server at hostway. I'd be
stunned if it was CF 5 or earlier.

now... to Rick Faircloth...

You're insane. Programming languages aren't about user interfaces - that's
what HTML and Flash are for. Programming languages are about how you
program. I don't use Flash Forms, and though I do use CFREPORT and
CFDOCUMENT some, there's very little else in Coldfusion that helps me do UI
stuff. That's all HTML and javascript.

The problem with your point of view is that you aren't able to take
advantage of the CODING features that make our lives as programmers easier.
One of those things is CFCs. UDFs. XML capabilities.

I had a phone conversation with some folks about a part time job telecommute
opportunity about a week ago that showed up on cf-jobs. I was told
initially that their software was compatible with CF 4.5 - CF7. Apparently,
they don't use *ANY* functionality not available in CF 4.5 - no UDFs, no
CFCs, nothing like that. He even said 95% of their clients are running on
CFMX 6.1 or 7.

I essentially told them that I had no problem maintaining existing 4.5 code,
but if I was going to be asked to build new modules and new functionality,
that I would absolutely want to do that using the modern conveniences of the
CFML language, not the antiquated methods of 1998.

I don't need extra money so much that I'm going to go back 7 years, because
I'm just not interested in coding like that anymore.

It's just plain foolish.

At any rate, I haven't heard back from them after I explained my position.
That's fine with me. I hope they find someone willing to do that kind of
work.

Rick

~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7
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RE: Neat error message

 when a more advanced feature request comes about
 you could be without a paddle

True, true... but mostly I develop for unsophisticated users
who demand very little in terms of how a particular feature
functions.

I know I need to update soon, and would have already if
Adobe had not made the upgrade unavailable to those with 4.5.

But I know the world is changing and sooner or later I have
to bring myself up to date...

 when a more advanced feature request comes

What would an example of one of those be that I couldn't
do with 4.5?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:47 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Ultimately though, the presentation is just, in most cases going to be
HTML/JS so ColdFusion shouldn't really be expected to provide this per se. 

The step up from non-Java ColdFusion is massive in terms of how it works
under the hood and in terms of features and capabilities.

CF7 just does things way, way better than 4.x/5. 

I can see your point in that at this stage your requirements are limited and
CF4 etc meets them but that server is way outdated (even archaic) and that
when a more advanced feature request comes about you could be without a
paddle.






~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
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Re: Neat error message

Anything which requires a gateway Anything which requires a Web Service
Anything which required you to code OO

To mention a few...

 


This e-mail is from Reed Exhibitions (Gateway House, 28 The Quadrant,
Richmond, Surrey, TW9 1DN, United Kingdom), a division of Reed Business,
Registered in England, Number 678540.  It contains information which is
confidential and may also be privileged.  It is for the exclusive use of the
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that any form of distribution, copying or use of this communication or the
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our switchboard on +44 (0) 20 89107910.  The opinions expressed within this
communication are not necessarily those expressed by Reed Exhibitions. 
Visit our website at http://www.reedexpo.com

-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 22:19:30 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

 when a more advanced feature request comes about
 you could be without a paddle

True, true... but mostly I develop for unsophisticated users
who demand very little in terms of how a particular feature
functions.

I know I need to update soon, and would have already if
Adobe had not made the upgrade unavailable to those with 4.5.

But I know the world is changing and sooner or later I have
to bring myself up to date...

 when a more advanced feature request comes

What would an example of one of those be that I couldn't
do with 4.5?

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:47 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Ultimately though, the presentation is just, in most cases going to be
HTML/JS so ColdFusion shouldn't really be expected to provide this per se. 

The step up from non-Java ColdFusion is massive in terms of how it works
under the hood and in terms of features and capabilities.

CF7 just does things way, way better than 4.x/5. 

I can see your point in that at this stage your requirements are limited and
CF4 etc meets them but that server is way outdated (even archaic) and that
when a more advanced feature request comes about you could be without a
paddle.








~|
Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 
Experience Flex 2  MX7 integration  create powerful cross-platform RIAs 
http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU

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Re: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread Josh Nathanson

Rick, you do real estate sites, correct?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to generate a pdf version of a home listing 
on the fly, that your real estate agent clients could print out, forward 
it to their prospective buyers etc.  Of course you can print from the web 
browser, but non-techie folks (such as real estate agents) feel comfortable 
with pdfs.

You can do that (and other cool things) quite easily using the cfdocument 
tag in CF7.  I have found this to be indispensable in my current position.

I would say this is an improvement in the user experience (at least an 
improvement in what your applications can offer to your clients).  Even if 
they are not demanding, you could offer this service for an additional fee 
if you like, and put more money in your pocket.

-- Josh


- Original Message - 
From: Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: RE: Neat error message


 Again, (and I'm speaking without actual experience with CFC's or XML...)
 what does using a CFC or XML provide me that I need right now?
 Just a better way to manage data?

 (And, as a note in reference to the other post you made and my answer,
 Flash forms is an attempt to enhance user experience...)

 I believe all program developers (CF, ASP.NET, etc)  will increasingly
 attempt to encapsulate
 within the languages more and more built-in functionality that addresses 
 the
 user experience.  Everyone's so heavy into that with AJAX, Flash, etc.
 I really do expect to see much more of this in CF 8...if so, I'm in...

 Rick


 -Original Message-
 From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:34 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Neat error message

 To add You surely cannot think that CFC, XML etc are not a reason to
 upgrade?!

 I'm with you on Flash forms though... Total bollox :-)




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 -Original Message-
 From: Rick Faircloth
 To: CF-Talk
 Sent: Sat Feb 10 16:50:04 2007
 Subject: RE: Neat error message

 Count me in!  Still using 4.5 and the 4.0 WACK!

 There has been no compelling reason to update so far.
 (Not to start this whole debate again...)  I'm waiting until
 CF includes built-in functionality that significantly addresses
 the user experience.

 I'm not looking to shave a few milliseconds off processing
 or to implement Flash forms or create pie charts.

 I'm getting more right now from implementing jQuery into
 my programming than I would if I deployed CF 7.  I'm looking
 for more effective and engaging ways to present information,
 not just more effective ways of processing it.

 I have high hopes that CF 8 might finally address the user
 experience more significantly... we'll see.

 It's going cost me $1300 to get from CF 4.5 to CF 8, so it better
 be good.

 Rick



 -Original Message-
 From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:07 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: Neat error message

 Probably alot of people out there still using 4  4.5. I see it on the 
 list
 quite often with questions like were upgrading to mx from 4.0, what can 
 we
 expect? Kinda odd since my CF4 wack is dated 1998...Long time to wait :/




 Doug B.









 

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RE: Neat error message

 CF5 compared to MX is like a Lada to a Ferrari

First... Ferrari I get, but what is a Lada?
Dictionary.com says it is a counter or bar, as in snack bar
or a building in which grain is kept, as in barn.
Is it a brand of vehicle?

On to the point...

What I have to be concerned with is the front end and the back end
of everything I work on.  I'm a one-man freelancer.

Therefore I'm a designer and programmer.  I build the interfaces
that people use and write the code that makes the interfaces work.

Yes, I'm curious about the advances and feel increasingly left out
of the discussions (except as a curiosity to the rest of you :o)
because of my ignorance, but I haven't been curious enough to
spend $1300 to look behind the curtain, yet.

Perhaps when CF 8 gets here there'll be enough attractions in the circus
to pay the price of admission.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:55 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Maybe, but the double edge of that I ease of use and total lack of
understanding of how, in that it's all fine and dandy adding a cfcool to
your tag set but when you need to think and develop outside the box , the
problems arise.

I respect your stance, but I find it insane that you, as a programmer have
not moved with the progress (even to be curious) not only of ColdFusion but
of the internet dev style as a whole, as I noted before the step up to MX is
massive (and I mean of how it all works and what you can do and in what way)
and some of the stuff being generated now in CFMX is stunning for what we
all know as CFML, way beyond the kindergarden CFWACK we all started out on!

CF5 compared to MX is like a Lada to a Ferrari





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RE: Neat error message

I wouldn't have a clue how to use old skool CGI technology
and don't see how I could a dynamic, database-driven website with
just HTML...never heard of bespoke tools either.  However, I have
now, since I googled for it and found their site... they use Flash... I hate
designing with Flash...

User experiences... yes, Ajax, etc.  Starting to use jQuery.  I haven't
worked with Ajax, yet.

I've looked into ASP.NET, but I dislike working with components, yet
can't code it by hand.

Basically, you need to understand that I have no background whatsoever
in computer programming.  Never took a computer course in all my years
in college.

I pickup up web design on my own as a personal and business interest,
and Cold Fusion as a means to be able to create a means for clients
to update their own content.  It was intuitive for me.  Later I began
to use the automated email, etc., as enhancements to sites.  I still get
a lot of miles out of 4.5...

But I must say, with the requests I'm getting for business applications,
I would like to enhance usability with Ajax so the
interfaces work more like traditional software.  I'm using Javascript to
enhance the interfaces, but would like the single-page data management
that Ajax brings to the table.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Sorry, missed you Q! Well, why should spend it? In your case, there probably
is no reason as you seem to be noting that your requirements are very basic,
but I suppose the argument could also be why use ColdFusion at all? You may
as well just stick with an old skool CGI technology, or even just flat HTML
:-)

I am not sure what your real world examples of your noted increased user
experiences are though? If your talking about Ajax etc then why use
ColdFusion? May as well roll your own using free bespoke tools for the job.






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RE: Neat error message

 You're insane.  

You been talking with my wife? :o)

 Programming languages aren't about user interfaces

True, but I'm watching the merging of UI tools and
programming tools.  You mentioned CFREPORT and
CFDOCUMENT, and those are programming tags which
help automate presentation.  (I believe that would be a
valid view).  And what about CFGRID and CFCHART?
Automated programming and presentation...

Dreamweaver components attempt to automate the process of building
interfaces while generating code for the backend.

I'm watching the ASP.NET components merge UI creation
and automate programming.  (Although I hate using
components because sooner or later I run into their limitations.)
And, as I mentioned to Neil, tools like this make it easier for
me to be productive in a language more quickly, because
I have no formal training in any of the languages... I just observe
what the components do, learn from them, and then write the
code myself for more precision and control.

 I don't need extra money so much that I'm going to go back 7 years,
because
 I'm just not interested in coding like that anymore.
 It's just plain foolish.

And I hope that you are never in a position to need money that badly... it's
not
a fun place to be... I know from experience.  You get hungry enough and
you'll
code any way you can to put food on the table.

One of the biggest differences between me and a lot of you I guess, is that
I
don't work for a company and have to worry about keeping a resume up-to-date
with skill sets.  I own the company and do all the work for it.  No demand
for
certain skill sets except to meet client expectations.

But, as I've stated, it is time to move on up from 4.5... it's been good to
me, but
it's getting quite behind the times.

Just waiting for CF 8... it'll be interesting to see how much more
integration
of programming and presentation there will be in CF 8.

Rick



-Original Message-
From: Rick Root [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:14 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

(I said find and replace about Macromedia because they're the ones who
released CFMX 6, 6.1, and 7...)

The guy is trying to use ImageCFC on a shared server at hostway.  I'd be
stunned if it was CF 5 or earlier.

now... to Rick Faircloth...

You're insane.  Programming languages aren't about user interfaces - that's
what HTML and Flash are for.  Programming languages are about how you
program.  I don't use Flash Forms, and though I do use CFREPORT and
CFDOCUMENT some, there's very little else in Coldfusion that helps me do UI
stuff.  That's all HTML and javascript.

The problem with your point of view is that you aren't able to take
advantage of the CODING features that make our lives as programmers easier.
One of those things is CFCs.  UDFs.  XML capabilities.

I had a phone conversation with some folks about a part time job telecommute
opportunity about a week ago that showed up on cf-jobs.  I was told
initially that their software was compatible with CF 4.5 - CF7.  Apparently,
they don't use *ANY* functionality not available in CF 4.5 - no UDFs, no
CFCs, nothing like that.  He even said 95% of their clients are running on
CFMX 6.1 or 7.

I essentially told them that I had no problem maintaining existing 4.5 code,
but if I was going to be asked to build new modules and new functionality,
that I would absolutely want to do that using the modern conveniences of the
CFML language, not the antiquated methods of 1998.

I don't need extra money so much that I'm going to go back 7 years, because
I'm just not interested in coding like that anymore.

It's just plain foolish.

At any rate, I haven't heard back from them after I explained my position.
That's fine with me.  I hope they find someone willing to do that kind of
work.

Rick




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RE: Neat error message

Neither of which have I needed to this point.  I'm sure the time will
come when I will.

But even when I move to CF8, I'll still probably code for awhile in
much the same way I do now.  It just takes time for me to integrate
new programming techniques while trying to be productive.  I don't
get paid by someone for the time I spend learning.  That one of the
big downsides to working for myself.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Anything which requires a gateway Anything which requires a Web Service
Anything which required you to code OO

To mention a few...

 





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RE: Neat error message

You're right, Josh... I do a lot of work on Real Estate sites.
And the CFDOCUMENT tag is one I drool over because
of its generation of PDF's.

That provides a big push towards upgrading.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Rick, you do real estate sites, correct?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to generate a pdf version of a home listing 
on the fly, that your real estate agent clients could print out, forward 
it to their prospective buyers etc.  Of course you can print from the web 
browser, but non-techie folks (such as real estate agents) feel comfortable 
with pdfs.

You can do that (and other cool things) quite easily using the cfdocument 
tag in CF7.  I have found this to be indispensable in my current position.

I would say this is an improvement in the user experience (at least an 
improvement in what your applications can offer to your clients).  Even if 
they are not demanding, you could offer this service for an additional fee 
if you like, and put more money in your pocket.

-- Josh





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Re: Neat error message

2007-02-10 Thread James Holmes

I'd suggest that the way you are required to code now is probably
slowing you down, especially when it comes to maintenance. For
example, having every cfquery and every bit of business logic in a CFC
(or a set of CFCs) makes it very easy to know where to look to change
the functionality in the app. With cfquery tags all the way through a
site, one change in a DB could mean having to open every file in the
app to update it. It would take 5 minutes to learn the CFC syntax to
get the benefits. And no, this doesn't make the user's experience
better - it makes yours better.

As for AJAX, you could easily used the pre-built CF libraries such as
AjaxCFC, mxAjax etc without having to do all the custom coding to deal
with the data, but these only work on CFMX.

The native java intergration in CFMX has saved my butt more than once too.

Regardless, it appears you will get what you want out of CF 8:

Scorpio will allow ColdFusion developers to create richer, more
engaging web applications

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Scorpio:FAQ#What_features_will_Scorpio_have.3F

On 2/11/07, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Neither of which have I needed to this point. I'm sure the time will
come when I will.

But even when I move to CF8, I'll still probably code for awhile in
much the same way I do now. It just takes time for me to integrate
new programming techniques while trying to be productive. I don't
get paid by someone for the time I spend learning. That one of the
big downsides to working for myself.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:25 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Anything which requires a gateway Anything which requires a Web Service
Anything which required you to code OO

To mention a few...

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RE: Neat error message

Sounds good... thanks for the info, James!

Rick

-Original Message-
From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:23 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

I'd suggest that the way you are required to code now is probably
slowing you down, especially when it comes to maintenance. For
example, having every cfquery and every bit of business logic in a CFC
(or a set of CFCs) makes it very easy to know where to look to change
the functionality in the app. With cfquery tags all the way through a
site, one change in a DB could mean having to open every file in the
app to update it. It would take 5 minutes to learn the CFC syntax to
get the benefits. And no, this doesn't make the user's experience
better - it makes yours better.

As for AJAX, you could easily used the pre-built CF libraries such as
AjaxCFC, mxAjax etc without having to do all the custom coding to deal
with the data, but these only work on CFMX.

The native java intergration in CFMX has saved my butt more than once too.

Regardless, it appears you will get what you want out of CF 8:

Scorpio will allow ColdFusion developers to create richer, more
engaging web applications

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Scorpio:FAQ#What_features_will_Scorpio_
have.3F

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Re: Neat error message

I am suprised then that you are not wanting to use web services as well
(unless the sites are for local and small shops)




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-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth
To: CF-Talk
Sent: Sat Feb 10 23:43:20 2007
Subject: RE: Neat error message

You're right, Josh... I do a lot of work on Real Estate sites.
And the CFDOCUMENT tag is one I drool over because
of its generation of PDF's.

That provides a big push towards upgrading.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 5:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Neat error message

Rick, you do real estate sites, correct?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to generate a pdf version of a home listing 
on the fly, that your real estate agent clients could print out, forward 
it to their prospective buyers etc.  Of course you can print from the web 
browser, but non-techie folks (such as real estate agents) feel comfortable 
with pdfs.

You can do that (and other cool things) quite easily using the cfdocument 
tag in CF7.  I have found this to be indispensable in my current position.

I would say this is an improvement in the user experience (at least an 
improvement in what your applications can offer to your clients).  Even if 
they are not demanding, you could offer this service for an additional fee 
if you like, and put more money in your pocket.

-- Josh







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Re: Neat error message