Re: Stus-List Slip Choice, backing in

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have wondered for a while why the 30-1 prop shaft is on the port side.
My Gori 2 blade folding has excellent bite in reverse and the prop walk
is to port. Having the shaft on port would give one the theory that the
few degrees of offset would add to pulling the stern to port.

The Goman Express 30 also has RH drive and a slightly offset to port shaft.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1





Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:17:52 -0400 
From: Andrew Burton  
 
I'm a bit puzzled by the talk about prop walk and offset shafts. 
 I've found that prop walk is pronounced when the shaft is on centerline, but 
when the shaft is offset, it is offset to minimize prop walk. i.e. If the prop 
pulls to port, then the shaft is offset to starboard cancelling the effects of 
the prop walk in reverse. At least, that's how it should be done. Obviously, 
others here are experiencing things differently, which I find surprising. 
 
Andy 
C 40 
Peregrine 
 
Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI  
USA    02840 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing 2GM20F

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Home Hardware sells pure propylene glycol. Search for Cryo-Tek concentrated 
antifreeze.
18.9 liters ( 5 US gallons ) is $135.

It may be that glycerin based antifreeze is the best choice for winterizing an 
engine block
though other than in sprinkler systems it has not caught on.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1




From: Steve Thomas  

The plumbing antifreeze sold here is denatured ethyl alcohol (ethanol), which 
is not great for rubber parts, but not as bad as methanol. As I noted in my 
last post, there is sometimes available a "premium" version plumbing 
antifreeze, which does contain at least some propylene glycol, but it contains 
ethanol as well. I went to some lengths to try and get a product that was based 
solely on propylene glycol and was not successful here in Ontario, and I could 
find nothing online anywhere in Canada, except as I also noted previously, the 
grossly over priced speed shop engine stuff. Either you have had good luck with 
ethanol, or the plumbing antifreeze that is available where you live is 
different. I wasn't so worried about the impeller in the engine as I am about 
all the rubber parts in the head. It is both a PITA and expensive to rebuild.  
 
Steve Thomas 
C MKIII 
Port Stanley, ON 
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Re: Stus-List Mainsail replacement considerations

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 I have a 3Di 155% genoa which has survived three years of racing. The
previous 3Dr ( yes "r" ) lasted 6 weeks, and the replacement 3DL accumulated
$1,200 in repairs by the end of the second summer. The 3Di has had some
minor winter sail care, edges done due to lifeline or stanchion chafe. I suspect
it will be fine for another two years.

The 3Di is a premium priced sail but I think for me it will be cheaper in the 
long run.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: Kevin Driscoll  
 
If I were buying a sail right now I would be reading everything on Brian 
Hancock's blog about lofts, cuts, and fiber. You can find it here. 
 This guy is 
a professional and up on the latest developments in fiber technology, which 
is valuable since it is changing every season. He also has a book *Maximum 
Sail Power* which may be a little dated in the fiber department, but the 
fundamentals are still there. 
 
FWIW, I race on a boat with North 3Di (which is / has replaced 3DL) and the 
sails are bomb proof and fast. They will outlast any Dacron sail IMO. They 
take a beating and keep on ticking. The taffeta laminate sails don't like 
to be neglected or too much UV, which is why their longevity suffers in the 
hands of some cruisers. 
 
KD 
30-2 
 

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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 I have the extension pipe installed between the distributor and the
alternator belt. There is just a cap on the end that I remove to drain
the block. It is easy. The two drain plugs on the block are simple to get
to. The drain plug on the bottom of the water pump is a bit fiddly to
start back in, mainly just an issue getting into the lazerette enough
to reach it. I doubt it is a 5 minute job to do all four.

Is it common to just drain the engine ( block ) and not fill it with antifreeze?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1 

From: "phorvati ."  

U have to drain the block.  Side inspection plate will leak if you dont 
drain it.  Its fragile as it is.  It doesnt take too much freezing to 
develop leaks.  Block drain plug is under distributor, just aft of side 
inspection plate.  It's pita. Moyer sells extention to make this easy. 
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Re: Stus-List Winterizing an Atomic 4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

My atomic 4 is raw water cooled, I have drained the engine and water pump
using the drain plugs and not used any antifreeze. That has worked in Toronto
for the last nine years.

I did experiment with a thin tube and suction pump the first year to see how 
much water
was left in the block. I doubt it was a rigorous test but there was not much.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
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Re: Stus-List Chart plotter problem

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Thinking out of the box here.

The way the alternator is wired in and the state of charge of your battery may 
be adding to the randomness of the problem.
If the output of the alternator is a heavy gauge short run directly to the 
battery or the positive stud on the starter then the
battery will damping out a lot of the alternator's noise - voltage spikes - 
variable output.

That may not be the way your boat is wired. Another common wiring was to use a 
smaller gauge wire ( 14 ? ) that runs back
to an instrument panel, through an ammeter, then forward again to a terminal 
block ( or starter stud ). That is fine for the
intended purpose of charging the battery but not as good for damping out 
alternator noise. The ammeter may have a wire
wound shunt that could act as a wonderful noise antenna. If the battery is 
discharged then you will get a good current running
which might increase the energy in the wiring. If the battery is fully charged 
from being on a shore power charger than it may
not be accepting much current and not dampening much.

I have no idea how difficult this is but you could test by loosening the 
alternator belt and starting the engine. Try it a couple of
times, then a couple of times with the belt tight.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 08:21:34 -0400 
From: David Knecht  

I have posted about this problem before, but still have not solved it.  I have 
been struggling with a electrical system problem since I upgraded my 
electronics two years ago.  I installed a Seatalk network, Raymarine EV-100 
autopilot and B Zeus T8 chart plotter.  The problem is that periodically, the 
Zeus behaves like it has a mind of its own. The unit will begin beeping while 
the touchscreen acts like someone is activating menus and commands randomly.  
All kinds of problem ensue from that let alone that you can?t use the controls 
while it is happening.  It happens intermittently, sometimes with engine on and 
sometimes off and I have not been able to identify the source.  One of the 
things I have noticed is that it happens more often (but not exclusively) when 
the engine is running. Last weekend, I had an incident of this that might help 
someone understand it. I unplugged the Seatalk cable to the chart plotter to 
see if it had anything to do with the network (it doesn?t).  I had the
 chart plotter on for about 45 minutes while I did other things and all was 
fine.  Then I started the engine and the Zeus immediately began beeping and 
randomly activating menus.  This continued for the time I had the engine 
running (about 15 minutes).   So that would seem to point toward something 
people have suggested before- noise in the electrical system from the 
alternator.  Here is what I don?t understand- I shut the engine off and the 
problem persisted with decreasing frequency for another 10 minutes or so and 
eventually stopped and it worked fine thereafter.  If this were an alternator 
problem, is there some way it could persist for so long after the engine was 
shut down.    Dave 
 
Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 
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Re: Stus-List Asymmetric spinnaker short handed. 33-2

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

> -Halyard at masthead.  On the 33-2 there are three halyards available, all 
> are in-masthead sheaves, parallel to each other .   I currently use the 
> centre one for the Genoa, and any other halyard chafes its neighbour on one 
> tack.    
> -Tack downhaul.   There isn't one forward of the furler drum.  The downhaul 
> itself can be rigged using the spin-pole downhaul line, fair leads and 
> cleats, but the fixed, forward tack is a problem to be resolved.    
> Many thanks for any guidance! 
> Dave - Windstar 33-2 

If the spinnaker halyard horizontal angle to the head ends up going 
significantly sideways
there is a risk it may not run cleanly. You could try a hoist, run a bit hot 
then take a picture
of it to see if it is chafing. In addition to rubbing along the mast head the 
halyard may also
rub on the edge of the sheave.

If chaffing looks to be a problem:

http://www.murrayyachtsales.com/5-tips-to-reduce-spinnaker-halyard-chafing/

Some boats that are rated with fractional hoist spinnakers still use a sheave 
at the mast head
and the spinnaker fairlead at the fractional height. Note that with a full 
hoist genoa and a
fractional spinnaker hoist ( or likely using your existing halyards ) you 
cannot do an outside
gybe. If your tackpoint is in front of the forestay you cannot do an inside 
gybe easily.

On the C 30-1 there is a bowplate bolted to the bow chain plate with two 
bolts. I made
up a SS fixture that projects a ring a few inches forward and bolts to the 
existing bow parts
with the two ( upgraded in size ) bolts. It has worked well for years.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

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Re: Stus-List A4 Slips Out of Gear

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

If you are using a modern engine oil with friction modifiers it may
be partially causing the problem.

The Paragon transmission does not shift gears in the traditional sense,
it has a hub that is a permanently engaged planetary gear. For forward
a clutch plate contacts the outer ring gear and planetary carrier, essentially
locking the set up. That transfers the input shaft to the output shaft 1:1.

The transmission is "wet", meaning it is bathed in engine oil. Despite that
the clutch material holds well enough to transfer the torque through using
the original spec engine oil. I think some of the newer oils with the friction
modifiers are too slippery and the clutch does not hold well under load.

I have switched to a Castrol oil, Grand Prix Motorcycle oil. It advertises 
itself
as having good wet clutch performance. Previously I was using a car oil with
a SH / SJ rating and friction modifiers. What I noticed was reverse was
soft in engaging. Coming off the dock it would take 2 - 3 boat lengths before
full power developed. After a couple of oil changes with the Grand Prix SG
oil I get great reverse ( and prop walk ) instantly.

On another note, the newest motor oils are API SM. To prevent problems with
catalytic converters the amount of phosphorus is being reduced. On older motors
the phosphorus was critical as an anti-wear additive for simple bearings and 
other
high load points.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2016 08:21:57 -0600 
From: Randy Stafford  

 
Listers- 
 
My Atomic-4 slips out of gear in forward if I open the throttle too much, 
especially under heavy load. It's not really a problem, because I don't need 
that much throttle. But I'm just wondering if this a common and fixable issue, 
or a safety feature, or what. 
 
Cheers, 
Randy 
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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Rick,

  I am not familiar with the rule of thumb for optimum whisker pole length, 
though it looks like
the geometry is setting the pole at right angles to the boat, and the jib holds 
a 60 degree angle
at the tack.

  For light air dead run I set the jib at 90 degrees to the centerline to 
maximize projected sail area
and ignore flow around the sail. As you say a barn door.

  About 3/4 the way down there is a chart in the section "Drag Predominate ( 
separated flow )":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forces_on_sails

  The driving force ( Fr ) in the right hand side diagram is at maximum with 
the sail at 90 degrees.
Also the drag force is directly in line with the boat, presumably where the 
mark is, where as if the
sail was at a 60 degree angle to the wind the lift would also be at 60 degrees.

  I am in an area where PHRF allows long whisker poles and no adjustment for 
length. In light air
and flat water the barn door trim seems to be the fastest.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 

From: "Rick Brass"  

If your J is 13?6?, the LP of your 155 is 20?11?. By the rule of thumb, the 
optimum whisker pole length is about 16?9?. 
 
With the 13?4?pole at the mast and perpendicular to the centerline of the boat, 
the line from the tack fitting to the end of the pole is 19?1?. Perpendicular 
to the center line would project the sail out as far as possible (which is what 
the whisker pole is supposed to do). There should have been some curvature to 
the sail, which you want so you get the maximum pressure on the sail (a cupped 
shape generates more pressure than a flat barn door shape). I find I usually 
run the pole about 15 to 20 degrees forward of the mast to promote that cupped 
shape. 
 
The LP of your 135 would be about 18?3?, so the spin pole would stretch the 
sail flat and still be a bit forward of perpendicular. (Optimum whisker pole 
would be 14?7?) You might need to run the spin pole at a forward angle to get 
the proper sail shape, though that doesn?t get you the maximum projection of 
the sail. 
 
And the essence of a whisker pole is that the length is adjustable, so you and 
match the length to the size of the headsail you are flying. 
 
Mike Hoyt?s comment that a pole longer than J costs you seconds in most PHRF 
areas is true. But not in all areas. And some of us are cruisers who want to 
get the most out of the boat, even though too short handed to fly the spin 
except on a log run. 
 
Plus I have always thought the use of J for max pole length in non-spin racing 
to be arbitrary and slightly inequitable in those regions that give a separate 
rating for spin and JAM racing. Seems like if you race JAM, you ought to be 
able to optimize the boat for JAM racing. 
 
Rick Brass 
 
Washington, NC 
 

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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

If the desired effect is to have both the main and genoa projecting maximum area
going dead down wind them both sails need to be set at right angles to the wind,
which is about the same as right angle to the centerline of the boat.

Assuming a 155% LP and the foot at right angle to the boat the whisker pole 
would
be > 184.5% of J. The ">" part is because the foot is larger than 155% of J.

On my C 30-1 with a 13.5' J that comes out to slightly under 26'. I have 
found allowing
a slight curve to the foot is OK, and having the angle a bit under 90 degrees 
is acceptable
leaving a 24' whisker pole.

I carry a 22' Forespar Line Control whisker pole, legal under PHRF Lake 
Ontario. In very
light air I use all 22' of it.

In heavier air on a reach I may use it to control sail shape, holds the clew at 
the proper
spot and controls how much is being spilled off. The line control pole is 
adjustable so
I can find a spot to raise the spinnaker car to that provides the combination 
of downward
angle and distance needed.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Sent: Friday, August 19, 2016 8:10 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Brass 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole 
 
Depending on the size of your boat and the size of the sail you are poling out, 
your spin pole might be perfectly acceptable in lieu of a whisker pole. 
 
I?ve always understood the optimum length of a whisker pole is 80% of the LP of 
the sail being poled out. 
 
80% of a 150 would be 1.2xJ. So if your J was 10?, as on a 27V, the spin pole 
would be about 24? less than optimal. On my 38 mk2 (J=16.3) with a 135, the 
difference between the spin pole and optimal whisker pole would only be about 
15?. 
 
Rick Brass 
Washington, NC 
 
 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole 
 
I poled out my 155% genoa last night with the spin pole, because I don't have a 
whisker pole, and I found the spin pole to be almost too long. 
 
Cheers, 
Randy 
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Re: Stus-List Boarding Ladder

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 If you turn the rudder it moves completely out of the way. Even with the 
rudder centered my ladder
does not touch it but is close.

Check the stern from the inside. There may be stiffening strip laminated 
horizontally across that
provides a good location to bolt the ladder to.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Hi,  
 
I am relatively new to sailing and the boat life, and this is my first post 
here. I have a C 30' 1976 and love the boat. I have been working on different 
projects, and now I'd to install a boarding ladder on my boat. I looked around 
the marina and noticed a lot of people have their ladders right in the middle 
of the transom. I am a little hesitant since the rudder seems to be somewhat 
large and the last ladder rung might touch it or make it difficult for someone 
to get on the ladder. I was wondering what you think about this, and if you 
have ideas on where I should install the ladder.  
the ladder is 3 feet long and 1 foot wide and has a hinge to drop it in water.  
 
Thank you,AliC 30 1976Seattle 
 

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Re: Stus-List Finally Won a Race now reaching strut

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The US Sailing rules reference the ISAF Equipment Rules of Sailing.
ERS defines a spinnaker pole in F.1.4 (d) (i) as:

> A spar attached to the mast spar to set a spinnaker.

Similarly a whisker pole as:

> A spar attached to the mast spar and a headsail clew.

So while the US Sailing rules do not mention the mast attachment
point it is covered by the ERS definition of a spinnaker ( or whisker ) pole.


I take the interpretation ( which may differ by region ) that the broad
meaning of an outrigger is anything projecting past the hull or deck
used to push out a sheet or sail. That would include hands, feet,
boat hooks, fishing rods or a pole not attached to the mast.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2016 09:45:29 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Finally Won a Race now reaching strut 
Message-ID: <004f01d1efe8$cb7cf430$6276dc90$@atlanticbb.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
Our (Chesapeake) PHRF rules do state - must be attached to the mast, must be 
less than J length without penalty. No hand holding a stick... 
 
  
 
Gary 
 
  
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 8:03 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard  
Subject: Stus-List Finally Won a Race now reaching strut 
 
  
 
The boat hook:  We only do it in really light winds 0-4 knots, were talking 
glassy water on the lake.  It's a cinch do undo and it's a cinch to hold.   
 
We do sail under US Sailing rules and there are no stipulation whatsoever 
about the length of the pole, it's attachment to the mast, or position of 
the crew as long as we are inside the lifelines. I'm not trying to argue 
against local rules as I have seen rules for other areas on the web where 
there were mentions of attachment to the mast etc. On the lake, we don't use 
local interpretation of the rules, we go strictly by the US Sailing / ISAF 
document.  
 
Here's the actual rule from the ISAF 2013- 2016 document:  
 
Rule 50.3 Use of Outriggers  
 
(a) No sail shall be sheeted over or through an outrigger, except as 
permitted in rule 50.3(b) or 50.3(c). An outrigger is any fitting or other 
device so placed that it could exert outward pressure on a sheet or sail at 
a point from which, with the boat upright, a vertical line would fall 
outside the hull or deck. For the purpose of this rule, bulwarks, rails and 
rubbing strakes are not part of the hull or deck and the following are not 
outriggers: a bowsprit used to secure the tack of a sail, a bumkin used to 
sheet the boom of a sail, or a boom of a boomed headsail that requires no 
adjustment when tacking.  
 
(b) Any sail may be sheeted to or led above a boom that is regularly used 
for a sail and is permanently attached to the mast from which the head of 
the sail is set.  
 
(c) A headsail may be sheeted or attached at its clew to a spinnaker pole or 
whisker pole, provided that a spinnaker is not set.  
 
Important part being part "C" Spinnaker pole or whisker pole but no mention 
of it's description, attachment,  or position of the crew.  I guess someone 
could argue that a boat hook is not a proper whisker pole.  Quite a few of 
us do it on the lake and no one cares. As long a I don't get a protest:  In 
0-3 knots I don't see any great danger, you can hold it one handed.. It's 
simply a matter of convenience and ease of use. Also it's much quicker / 
easier to change the depth / angle of  a portable pole instead of a heavy 
thing attached to the mast, especially in extremely light winds where any 
sudden move of the crew can upset the sailplan and kill your ever so slight 
apparent wind.  
 
 
Just to be clear, here's the actual rule on the crew:  
 
CREW POSITION; LIFELINES 49.1 Competitors shall use no device designed to 
position their bodies outboard, other than hiking straps and stiffeners worn 
under the thighs.  
 
49.2 When lifelines are required by the class rules or the sailing 
instructions they shall be taut, and competitors shall not position any Part 
4 OTHER REQUIREMENTS WHEN RACING 28 part of their torsos outside them, 
except briefly to perform a necessary task. On boats equipped with upper and 
lower lifelines, a competitor sitting on the deck facing outboard with his 
waist inside the lower lifeline may have the upper part of his body outside 
the upper lifeline. If the class rules do not specify the material or 
minimum diameter of lifelines, they shall comply with the corresponding 
specifications in the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations.    
 
No mention of holding sails or anything else..  
 
 
As I learned racing my Mustang.. Reading the rules very carefully and 
knowing how to interpret them in a fair is just another item on the long 
list of what makes the difference between the guy out front and the rest..  
 
Here are the rules: 

Re: Stus-List 1990 C 34+DK

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Tom,

  you can look up boat classes on the Lake Ontario PHRF website without being
a member or handicapper.

Go to:

www.phrf-lo.org

and click on "Valid Class Search" on the left hand side. Enter "C 34" in 
"Class Name"
and that will display the six classes that PHRF-LO has ratings for. You can 
compare the
dimensions to see if any match your boat.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 17:28:01 -0400 
From: Tom Vaughan  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List PHRF - 1990 C 34+DK 

I am looking for Spinnaker & Non Spinnaker (Main & Jib) PHRFs for the above 
Boat. 
PHRF-LE couldn't find the Boat in their Database & assigned a PHRF for a 
different Boat. I looked at the C Owners Database & found two similar Boats. 
However there were many 34+ Boats, that either didn't say if they were DK or 
WK, or didn't list a PHRF. Any PHRF info on the 1990 C 34+DK would be 
appreciated.                                         Tom Vaughan, 1990 C 
34+DK, Summer Love II, Buffalo, New York 
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Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

OD as in One Design, like a Melges 20, J/22 etc.
The class rules cover weight, sails, sometimes even
this size of all the running rigging. In larger fleets
there are tuning documents, some are so detailed
they will recommend shroud tension by wind and
wave conditions, Most fleets have accurate polars
because the boats should be the same, and sail
the same. After a while every detail is wrung out
to what is the fastest settings and what speed
you will get.

On the newest designs a lot of the set up is calculated
by computer before the boats hit the water.

With our generation there was a lot of production
differences, sometimes +/- over a hundred pounds
of weight, and possibly no one has the same sails
even if they are ~ 155%. At best a polar would be
a very rough guide.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 From:   RANDY <randy.staff...@comcast.net> 
 To:   cnc-list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
 Cc:   Michael Brown <m...@tkg.ca> 
 Sent:   7/19/2016 6:36 PM 
 Subject:   Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing 


 

Way to go Michael!


One question: what did you mean by "OD" (in "It is not a OD where a computer 
has figured out the precise point to set everything, and anything even slightly 
off is slower").


Cheers,
Randy


------------

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: "cnc-list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: "Michael Brown" <m...@tkg.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 7:59:18 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing


I am just back from 47 hours of racing a C 30-1, the Lake Ontario 300
Scotch Bonnet course. We do the Double Handed Flying Sail class, and
carry both a symmetrical and asymmetrical spinnakers.


As usual Lake Ontario presents a wide range of sailing conditions even
over 2 days, ranging from dead air for a couple of hours trying to round
Scotch Bonnet to 31 kts apparent on the nose coming in to the Niagara mark.


The 30-1 seems to handle everything OK. Hard to summarize any specific
characteristics but as others have mentioned upgrade the rigging so you
can correctly trim the sails even under heavy load. Despite being 30' they
lines will load up a lot. I have the big boat harken main traveler with a
4:1 primary sheet and a further 4:1 fine adjuster. I put on captive ball
genoa tracks this year and adjust them all the time now under load.


There is still some magic in these old boats. Windburn took first in class,
first in fleet ( pretty much the same ) and first corrected all boats in the
Scotch Bonnet course. We had aspirations of line honors even against
boats like the J/33, Jenneau 50 and C 115 but the aforementioned
dead air at Scotch Bonnet killed our miles of lead over the fleet.


So sail your C 30 hard, watch your VMG and trim constantly. It is
not a OD where a computer has figured out the precise point to set
everything, and anything even slightly off is slower. The 30-1 will
handle way more sail area in a breeze than conventional wisdom
will recommend.


And have lots of fun!


Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1 

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:15:57 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander" <gnylan...@atlanticbb.net> 
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing 
Message-ID: <000501d1e1bf$bc5dc4c0$35194e40$@atlanticbb.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Recommend not to pinch, the boat seems to want to be free. Also, you should 
have inboard genoa tracks to help pointing, but need to sheet the genoa 
outboard for reaching. My tracks are about four feet aft of the shrouds, in 
line with them and are six feet long? I have adjustable cars (Garhauer) but use 
a snatch block on the rail when reaching. I set the rig tension on the medium 
to loose side, but race in mostly light air. Selection is a 155, 140, 110 ? all 
Dacron (had high tech but when they fail?they fail big and my budget didn?t fit 
getting new ones every four years). 
 
Gary 
 
#593 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steven 
Tattrie via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 9:13 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Steven Tattrie <steven.tatt...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing 
 
Hi, 
 
I have been PHRF racing at our local club, this is my first year with a C 30 
MK1 (1979) is there a thread or anyone have comments on getting the best out of 
the boat, eg tight rigging, rake, sail selection, strength or weaknesses 
specific to the 30 to stay competitive? I have been sailing for a couple 
decades so not looking for general sailing tips. I want to know what is best 
for the 30MK1 or hear from your experience what work best. 
 
I am pointing well, though wounder if I should pinch more or be more off the 
wind for speed? I seemed to be passed on reaching and running. 
 
FYI - we have about half a dozen 30 MK1 racing a couple redwings, a 32 and 35 
MK1 racing. All C 
 
Stevetensions on 

Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I am just back from 47 hours of racing a C 30-1, the Lake Ontario 300
Scotch Bonnet course. We do the Double Handed Flying Sail class, and
carry both a symmetrical and asymmetrical spinnakers.

As usual Lake Ontario presents a wide range of sailing conditions even
over 2 days, ranging from dead air for a couple of hours trying to round
Scotch Bonnet to 31 kts apparent on the nose coming in to the Niagara mark.

The 30-1 seems to handle everything OK. Hard to summarize any specific
characteristics but as others have mentioned upgrade the rigging so you
can correctly trim the sails even under heavy load. Despite being 30' they
lines will load up a lot. I have the big boat harken main traveler with a
4:1 primary sheet and a further 4:1 fine adjuster. I put on captive ball
genoa tracks this year and adjust them all the time now under load.

There is still some magic in these old boats. Windburn took first in class,
first in fleet ( pretty much the same ) and first corrected all boats in the
Scotch Bonnet course. We had aspirations of line honors even against
boats like the J/33, Jenneau 50 and C 115 but the aforementioned
dead air at Scotch Bonnet killed our miles of lead over the fleet.

So sail your C 30 hard, watch your VMG and trim constantly. It is
not a OD where a computer has figured out the precise point to set
everything, and anything even slightly off is slower. The 30-1 will
handle way more sail area in a breeze than conventional wisdom
will recommend.

And have lots of fun!

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1 

Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:15:57 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing 
Message-ID: <000501d1e1bf$bc5dc4c0$35194e40$@atlanticbb.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Recommend not to pinch, the boat seems to want to be free. Also, you should 
have inboard genoa tracks to help pointing, but need to sheet the genoa 
outboard for reaching. My tracks are about four feet aft of the shrouds, in 
line with them and are six feet long? I have adjustable cars (Garhauer) but use 
a snatch block on the rail when reaching. I set the rig tension on the medium 
to loose side, but race in mostly light air. Selection is a 155, 140, 110 ? all 
Dacron (had high tech but when they fail?they fail big and my budget didn?t fit 
getting new ones every four years). 
 
Gary 
 
#593 
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steven 
Tattrie via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 9:13 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Steven Tattrie  
Subject: Stus-List C 30 MK1 PHRF racing 
 
Hi,  
 
I have been PHRF racing at our local club, this is my first year with a C 30 
MK1 (1979) is there a thread or anyone have comments on getting the best out of 
the boat, eg tight rigging, rake, sail selection, strength or weaknesses 
specific to the 30 to stay competitive? I have been sailing for a couple 
decades so not looking for general sailing tips. I want to know what is best 
for the 30MK1 or hear from your experience what work best. 
 
I am pointing well, though wounder if I should pinch more or be more off the 
wind for speed? I seemed to be passed on reaching and running.  
 
FYI - we have about half a dozen 30 MK1 racing a couple redwings, a 32 and 35 
MK1 racing. All C  
 
Stevetensions on  
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Re: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

This is a quote from the USSailing "History of US PHRF Affiliated Handicaps 
2016" document.
USSailing may have some data but from a quick search I did not see a summary.

PHRF racing participation is declining across the country. While there are many 
factors that
have caused this decrease in participation, one of the recurring complaints 
voiced by racers and
race organizers alike is that PHRF handicaps are not always fair.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 15:58:43 + (UTC) 
From: RANDY  
To: cnc-list  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing 
Message-ID: 
     <81652089.51418328.1468425523490.javamail.zim...@comcast.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
"Racing numbers are down everywhere". Edd where can I find published data on 
that?  
 
I'm doing that analysis right now for my club, using published race results 
dating back to (only) 2012 to study the number of boats racing each year. I 
haven't finished the analysis yet, but I can already tell we're down at least 
20% from 2012. We seem to be holding at about 28 boats across six fleets for 
the last two years. We gain a boat or two each year, but we lose a boat or two 
each year.  
 
Cheers,  
Randy Stafford  
S/V Grenadine  
C 30-1 #7  
Ken Caryl, CO  
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Re: Stus-List Wednesday Night racing

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I'm curious: How many of you guys race every Wednesday night?  

Started one night a week, either Tuesday in white sail or Wednesday
in flying sail, in 2000. Sailed both nights staring 2004, then bought
the boat in 2009. A couple of years ago the club offered a flying sail
start on Tuesdays which I race in. So spinnaker twice a week.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


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Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

PHRF-LO lists the 30-1 draft at 5', and the shoal draft version at 4' 2".

Though the manufacture's displacement specs are usually optimistic,
the shoal draft version is claimed to be 500 or 600 pounds heavier.
I would guess that the extra weight, possibly extra waterline, is not as
much of a handicap downwind as upwind.

In light air there is not much leeway, the deep keel should be better
than a shoal draft keel but there may not be much difference.

In moderate air the deep keel is suppose to generate more lift with
less leeway, but also has more drag.

> So I don't point as high, but I do make good time to the weather mark.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 16:23:33 + (UTC) 
From: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List C 30 Shoal Draft 
Message-ID: 
     <1888717722.1548504.1468167813406.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
My literature states that my shoal draft 1973 version is also about 4'6". ?A 
friend had the std version, which was raced in the old SORC and his was 
5'3".Don't know if there were changes made to the keels during the run, but 
those were numbers I'm aware of.I find that in 10kts of wind, I'm doing by best 
upwind by tacking through 90deg. ?So I don't point as high, but I do make good 
time to the?weather mark.RonWild CheriC 30-1STL 
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Re: Stus-List What happened to the USSailing PHRF list?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Yes, there is a 2016 list.

They may be doing something different with the list this year.
This note came through in our PHRF-LO newsletter:

>From a statistical standpoint, USSailing determined that the ‘high,’ ‘low,’ & 
>‘mean’
data were inadequate for establishing the most accurate PHRF rating and it was
decided to discontinue issuing that as guidance. Instead, identify the fleet in 
the Red,
White, & Blue book that has conditions most like your fleet and use their data
for a particular boat as your starting point.

I have the 2016 list and the intro document, which contains this:

Base Handicaps

In this section are tables giving the base handicaps for stock series produced 
models asreported by Member Fleets.
The list contains all handicaps reported before early February of 2014.
The tables are in alphabetic sequence by model name.  Under each model name, 
the PHRF fleet reporting a handicap
for that model appears first, the seconds-per-mile handicap appears second, the 
“experience” code third, the year of
the latest update to the handicap information fourth, followed by the total 
number of boats issued that handicap during
the past season.  In cases where no year is shown, the handicap was last 
adjusted prior to 1988.

“Experience” codes reflect each Fleet’s observation al experience in 
handicapping each model.

The codes can be understood as:

A = initial handicap
B = up to one season of experience
C = beyond one season of experience 

I can email you the PDFs if that would help.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:02:09 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander"  
To: "CandC List"  
Subject: Stus-List What happened to the USSailing PHRF list? 
Message-ID: <01d1d96c$cecef4e0$6c6cdea0$@atlanticbb.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
Does anyone know if the US Sailing PHRF comprehensive list has been taken 
down? I have used it many times and now cannot find it. 
 
Thanks, Gary Nylander 
 
Maryland 
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Re: Stus-List PHRF #'s

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Pat,

  I was at the PHRF Lake Ontario Toronto West District meeting when the 30-2 XL
class PHRF was set in 2013. The process used was to determine comparable boats,
which was easy because the 30-2 class already was rated. There also was a custom
30-2 XL with a modified keel and rudder. It was felt that the 30-2 XL should be 
slightly
faster than the standard 30-2 though there was no race results to verify that. 
The
mod boat should have been faster still, again no race results.

  The 30-2 class SP was FS: 147, and the 30-2 XL MOD was FS: 144. Since PHRF at 
the
time did class SP in increments of 3 sec / mile the recommendation was to set:

Standard C 30-2  147 / 168
 C 30-2 XL        144 / 165
 C 30-2 XL MOD    141 / 162  - Modified bulb keel and rudder


As far as your PHRF out in Alberta that would be up to the local PHRF chapter 
but
-3 sec / mile compared to a 30-2, maybe - 6 sec / mile to a CS30 would be a 
starting point.

I have raced a 30-1 against the 30-2 and CS30 on both course races and long 
distance
races. Our PHRF spread is 20 - 25 sec / mile under PHRF-LO and I really do not 
see that
much difference on many points of sail.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


From: Pat MacDonald  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Stus-List PHRF #'s 
Message-ID:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
I bought a 1995 30MK II XL (1 of only 3 XL's made by C)  last year in Ontario 
and brought it out to Alberta. 
Yes we do have a big lake to sail her in :) 
There is a pretty good racing community here.  With that I'm wondering what 
would the PHRF be for my boat in these lake conditions. 
Wherever we look for PHRF scores my boat shows a PHRF of 141-159. 
At 141 I'm getting constantly out scored by really significant margins. 
Any ideas or suggestions that would help with a more accurate PHRF # 
Thanks 
 
Pat 
Mojo.  30 MK II XL 
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Re: Stus-List Shift Cable Clamp woes

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Does your setup look like this?

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7005

If so the part I think you are referring to I have not been able to locate.
I have considered making a spare, a project that hasn't got to the top
of the todo list yet.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 10:32:14 -0400 
From: "S Thomas"  
To:  
Subject: Stus-List Shift Cable Clamp woes 
Message-ID: <8C564B7AC9E049FCB7FCE655B472320D@mordor> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 
 
My 1978 C has the type of shifter and throttle cable assembly that is 
external to the Edson pedistal, and mounted on a pair of 1 inch stainless 
tubes.   
Yesterday the cable clamp on the shifter cable broke (under a lift bridge, 
enroute to a race start...) and I have not been able to find any reference this 
particlar part anywhere.  
For the cable itself there are sources, but that does not help with this 
particular problem.  
The clamp has already been welded once, but to try that again would require it 
to be welded in situ, which is tricky at best, given the fact that it is thin 
stainless steel and immediately adjascent to the plastic parts of the cable. I 
have a lot of respect for the welding skill of whoever did the original repair. 
 
The part consists of stamped sheet metal, formed so that it fits into the 
annular detent on the shift cable and wraps around the cable. The ends of the 
sheet metal strap have right angle tabs that interleave to form an overall "D" 
shape, with a round head machine screw threaded through the flat surface into a 
flat stainless steel bar and into the annular detent on the cable. The bar 
extends up about 8 inches and is similarly fastened by a screw through the 
casting at the top. The whole thing:  cable, strap, and clamp, is stuffed down 
inside the 1 inch stainless tubing when assembled.  
 
If anyone else has been down this road, I sure would like to hear how you 
handled it.  
A source for the part would be great.  
I have had no luck with online searches so far.  
 
Steve Thomas 
C MKIII 
Port Stanley, ON 
 
P.S. - The rest of my sailing club is yucking it up across the lake, and having 
a great time in Ashtabula, OH.  
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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The guidance I received is that the shaft needs to be a tight fit inside the 
coupler.
The matched prop shaft and coupler set I got back from the prop company would
not slide together by hand, needed light taps from a rubber mallet. The company
said if there was much play and even a slight bit of misalignment causing 
vibration
that overtime it would wear down any high point or possibly the set screw.

So it may be that the previously tightened and seizing wired set screw is not 
backing
off, the end is wearing down until it appears to be loose.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 21:17:42 + (UTC) 
From: Daniel Sheer  
To: Cnc-list CNC Boat Owners  
Subject: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes 
Message-ID: 
     <1554588852.4980586.1467321462816.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Just had my shaft slip out of the coupling as well. Zincs forward of the strut 
kept it from coming out of the boat. It was "lazy, hazy, crazy days of summer" 
getting the shaft back up so I could reattach it to the coupling. An hour and a 
half of "grunting and swearing and beer" before we were on our way again. Had 
holes in the shaft for the set screws. All on tight. Still came out. I put stop 
nuts on the set screws, and, since the key was moving as well, two hose clamps 
to hold the key in place. Also replaced the lock washers on the coupling bolts. 
We'll see. I'm checking it before each sail. 
Dan SheerPegathy - LF38Rock Creek off the Patapsco 
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Re: Stus-List Transmission/prop woes

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

A prop shaft company I dealt with advised me to use steel cup point grub screws
centered in a slight dimple on the shaft.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 
Four years ago I put a new Universal M3-20B in our club launch, and new  
shaft as well.  Drilled pretty deep holes in the shaft for the set  
screws, tightened them and wired them in place.  After about two months  
the shaft slipped out, with no apparent damage to the shaft. I think  
what happened was the threads on the end of the screws compressed in the  
holes allowing enough play to release the shaft. I then put the set  
screws in a lathe and cut the bottom of the threads off, so it was just  
a solid tip, and tapered the end.  It's held since then. 
 
Neil Gallagher 
Weatherly, 35-1 
Glen Cove, NY 
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Re: Stus-List Moving my traveler - 30mki

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

A couple of questions.

1)  What is the height of your boom? Pre '77 the factory standard was
pretty low, under 6' from the cockpit sole to the underside of the boom.

2) When you say "moving the traveler to just in front of the companionway"
I assume you to the stern of the companionway. Are you looking at tight to
the cabin or as far astern as possible?

I have done the project twice, once with a Harken Midrange Boat sized track and
car, then upgraded to a Big Boat track and car. The main sheet is 4:1 with a
separate 4:1 fine adjuster. I installed two boom bails to spread the load and
have Harken 57mm Black Magic Hi load blocks on each.

That setup works well but may be overkill for cruising. I race Windburn,
sometimes solo, and run full main to 22 - 24 kts.

I can take pictures and send them to you, or if you are near Toronto you
can drop by and take a look.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 
Hey guys, 
 
After some research and having the helpful folks at Genco Marine look at 
photos of my boat, I've come to the conclusion that it's nearly impossible 
to shade my cockpit while under sail unless I move my traveler.  I have a 
1976 30mki with a single back stay and a tiller.  The traveler is currently 
located at the back of the cockpit. 
 
Before anyone yells "Buy a hat!" or "Wear sunscreen!"... These are all 
fantastic suggestions, but I'm beyond that.  A shaded cockpit is essential 
to keeping the women in my life happy sailors.  When they are happy 
sailors, I get to sail.  When they are not, I don't get to sail.  Simple as 
that.  So, I need advice on moving my traveler so I can install a bimini 
top. 
 
I was thinking about moving the traveler to just in front of the 
companionway.  This is a leverage point not significantly different from 
the traveler location on a wheel-steered 30mki.  I know moving it forward 
will cause the load on the traveler to be much greater and my leverage is 
going to be lower.  I might need extra blocks to gain leverage on the main 
sheet.  I will also need strong backing blocks under the traveler.  I may 
also have to create a new attachment point on the boom. 
 
Has anyone done the research and calculations required to do this project? 
Better yet... has anyone already done this? 
 
Thanks in advance for any help. 
 
Ryan 
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Re: Stus-List Assymetrical spinnaker pole

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have both symm and asymm spinnakers flying from a pole. I assume
you mean to connect a guy to the spinnaker tack and pole that out.
The symm is better from 120 AWA to 180 AWA, the asymm starts to
work as well tighter than 120 AWA.

If you are considering leaving the asymm tack on centerline and using
a pole like you would use a whisker pole on a headsail I guess that
would work but as pointed out is not legal under common Racing
Rules of Sailing.

In light air you might be able to fly the asymm even when center tacked
by starting dead downwind then crossing the lee. In light air I do that
running J with a couple of people sitting on the boom to control it.
As an example with the boom out to port and the jib or asymm out to
starboard go downwind. The jib or asymm usually will not fill well.
Cross over the lee gently until the asymm fills out, then return closer
back to the lee. With a bit of practice you can keep the asymm full
and pulling. Obviously this can be dangerous due to an uncontrolled
gybe, but in under 5 kts and no waves it does work. Also note that despite
having the boom out to port you might not be considered to be
sailing on starboard.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 11:44 AM, TOM VINCENT via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
 
> I race on Wednesday nights on the Bohemia River in Maryland and lately the 
> race committee has been doing a better job having a windward start and a 
> down wind leg. Unfortunately, I use an assymetrical spinnaker which does 
> very poorly dead down wind, even gybing has not helped. One of my crew was 
> wondering if we used a regular spinnaker pole, if it would help us down 
> wind. I was wondering if anyone on the forum has any experience using a 
> pole with an assymetrical spinnaker. 
> 
> Tom Vincent 
> Frolic II, C 36 cb 
> Chesapeake City, MD 
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Re: Stus-List SOS signals - LED light to replace flares?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Good points.

Unfortunately the advice I have received is that testing or practicing with 
expired flares is
illegal, at least in Canada. I could imagine in a sudden distress situation, 
particularly including
heavy wind and waves, that a crew member that has never fired or even loaded a 
shotgun
style flare gun might not be an asset.

I have added a floating GPS VHF-DSC handheld to the ditch bag to backup the 
installed one.
They would be my first choice on Lake Ontario.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


 
As a side comment to the SOS signals post, there are several dimensions to be 
considered. One is between what is needed according to regulations and what is 
really needed in a real life situation. We all know by now that the gap between 
regulations and reality is only increasing. You need to have a set of safety 
devices as required by the governing bodies but that doesn't me mean they will 
do anything for you in a life-threatening situation. The most publicized 
account of how useless most of the so called offshore safety devices are can be 
found in the Sydney Hobart Yacht Race tragedy of 1998. From jack-lines to 
tethers and lifejackets, to flares and even life-rafts, major flaws and 
failures were reported. This was an event where all major Australian SAR units 
off the east coast were in the air or waterborne to assist, imagine that you 
are thousands of miles offshore on your own, in need of help. 
 
In my opinion, we now should emply the best technology has to offer when it 
comes to communication. The purpose of a light or a flare is to communicate, to 
attract attention to our position, but it is an antiquated product which 
produces very limited results. Many ships will pass by and only pure luck will 
make them turn your way and offer help. The truth is these ships power through 
the night on autopilot, with their crews glancing on their AIS and radar 
screens once in a while, while the CPA and TCPA alarms are set for big targets. 
A simple VHF call with a position could save your life. 
For me personally, I always take into account 2 priorities, first personal 
survival, so I need water, food, first aid. Secondly, communication. A PLB/AIS 
device and a hand-held VHF are worth more than all the flares you can carry. If 
I were in northern waters I would choose a survival suit equipped with a PLB 
over a liferaft. In the tropics, a good hypalon dinghy will do, given that my 
EPIRB/PLB has been activated. 
We spend thousands of dollars on safety equipment that not only sits there idle 
and only needs to be replaced regularly, but it may even be useless in a real 
case scenario. I was once fined by a young and over-zealous Coast Guard officer 
for having a horse-shoe shaped lifebuoy instead of the ring-shaped one. I went 
to Canadian Tire and bought a plastic ring the following day, and passed by the 
Coast Guard to validate it. They said I was legal at that point. However, only 
our son could get his body inside the ring, none of us adults could have used 
it, but was perfectly legal. 
Just a few thoughts on safety onboard. Use satellite beacons, and keep your 
flares for the beach barbeque. 
 
 
Sent from my iPad 
 
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Re: Stus-List Smelly Water Tank

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The pull out platform the settee cushions sit on can be lifted off. Under that 
is an access
plate that screws off. I usually in the spring use a clean microfiber cloth and 
wipe down
the tank with clean water and a little bit of bleach.

There are various chemicals you can add ( Sudbury Aqua Fresh and such ) that 
work well.

I routinely add a small amount of bleach, maybe a tablespoon per 5 gallons, 
when refilling
the tank.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Listers-  
 
My 30-1 has developed a bad odor in the water tank under the starboard settee 
(the tank that supplies the galley sink).  
 
Any tips on how to get rid of it? I'm tempted to pour some bleach in the tank 
but wanted to check with you all first to see if there is any risk of damaging 
the material from which the tank is made (fiberglass, I think - the tank seems 
to be a molded part of the settee).  
 
Note I don't drink that water or even use it for cooking. I mainly use it for 
cleaning.  
 
Thanks in advance.  
 
Cheers,  
Randy Stafford  
S/V Grenadine  
C 30-1 #7  
Ken Caryl, CO  
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Re: Stus-List Deck Waste fitting dilemma

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

As a last resort, drill a hole through the center large
enough to take a hacksaw or jigsaw blade. Cut out to
the edge including into the threads at a location that
is just a bit counterclockwise from one of the original
holes. Use a punch at a low angle and hammer.

At some point I will replace my fittings, what does the
group think of the units that use a winch handle vs the
key?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

For years. at least on Lake Ontario, the normal size of a symmetrical spinnaker
was 183%. PHRF-LO at the time allowed up to a 183% before a rating adjustment.

You may have 183% spinnakers. I have rarely measured old spinnakers and managed
to get the original dimensions within 1%.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



I should have mentioned, my spinnakers' max widths are both "only" 184% of J.  
 
Randy  
 
- Original Message - 
 
When I bought C 30-1 HIN 3007972 it came with two spinnakers of different 
material weights. They were handed down with the boat when the PO moved it to 
Colorado from Traverse City Michigan (where it spent the first 40 years of its 
life). The lighter one was made by Babel & Buchbinder, an obscure loft in 
Traverse City that now appears to be a Doyle loft 
(http://www.doylesails.com/lofts/traversecity/). I can't find a sailmaker's 
label on the heavier one. Both have "ChuteSCOOP" dousing sleeves on them 
(http://www.chutescoop.com). That's all I know about them.  
 
I measured their max width how my RSA's PHRF chairman told me to, by folding 
each sail in half vertically and measuring from the trailing edges to the 
center fold, both at the foot and about a third of the way up. Then I doubled 
the measurement and calculated what % of J it represented. If that's not the 
right way to measure SMW maybe I can get 6 seconds back in my PHRF rating :)  
 
Cheers,  
Randy  
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I think PHRF Lake Ontario might be setting a record for the number
of measurements submitted for a C 30-1.

When I started it was two, largest spinnaker max girth and headsail LP.

This year I made 18 measurements and submitted 13 numbers. 

With a folding prop it comes out to FS: 174 and NFS: 198

Details ...

Jib LP

Symm MG
Symm SLU
Symm SF

Asymm AMG
Asymm ALU
Asymm ALE
Asymm ASF

Main HW
Main MGU
Main MGM
Main MGT

Spinnaker Pole SPL

To get the Asymm MG I had to measure the halfway point on the
luff and leech ( + 2) and to get the Main MGM - MGU - MGT I had
to measure the half - three quarters - seven eights points on the leech ( +3 ).

Most of it is covered here in Part II:

http://phrf-lo.org/index.php?option=com_content=category=blog=88=186

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 20 May 2016 09:35:13 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF 
Message-ID: <008701d1b29c$7e9a0380$7bce0a80$@atlanticbb.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii" 
 
Just got my renewal - Chesapeake Bay. Stock boat with folding prop, no 
furler, standard sail specs - 174.  
 
Gary #593 
 
-Original Message- 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
Bushie via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 8:21 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Rick Bushie  
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF 
 
174 base. 6sec for roller furling above deck and 9sec for three blade fixed 
prop. 189 adjusted phrf spin/non-spin. Ches Bay. 
 
Rick Bushie 
Anchovy, #1 
Tolchester, MD 
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The "E" measurement of the C 30-1 is 11.50'. That would be
from the stern of the mast along the boom to the edge of the main
leach when fully pulled back by the outhaul.

You may be an inch or two shorter, if so I doubt replacing the sail
just for that would make any sense.

It is hard to tell from the pictures but if I had to guess I would say
your boom might be longer than mine, possibly to enable end sheeting
from a stern mounted track. Again a guess, but from the stern of the
mast my boom is about 12' long. yours looks to be around 13.75.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 

Date: Sun, 1 May 2016 15:45:57 + (UTC) 
From: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
To: cnc-list  
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 
Message-ID: 
     <990041156.24816803.1462117557970.javamail.zim...@comcast.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Listers-  
 
I posted a few pictures from my first race in my new-to-me 30-1 (hull #7) last 
Wednesday night at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeUlmcm1IX1c5ZHc  
 
You can see the foot of my mainsail is considerably shorter than my boom. I'm 
wondering if that's "normal" for 30-1s (or other C for that matter). It 
doesn't really look normal judging by brochure photos and drawings.  
 
A previous owner had also raised the boom at least a foot from its original 
height, as the C itself did on later C 30s.  
 
When I get a new mainsail I'd like to increase its area by both returning the 
boom to its original height, and increasing the length of mainsail's foot. I'm 
thinking more area equals more power equals more speed. And I can live with a 
lower boom.  
 
Any words of wisdom to share?  
 
Thanks,  
Randy Stafford  
S/V Grenadine  
C 30-1 #7  
Ken Caryl, CO  
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Re: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

This might be a rough starting point, the CS 30.

http://bottrell.ca/BoatDocs/CS30Polars.pdf

You could pick a few datapoints and see how close you are.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 



Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:24:38 -0600 
From: Lorne Serpa  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar? 
Message-ID: 
     

Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors)

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

> Now that I've launched my boat and weighed my trailer empty, I conclude  that 
> my boat weighs ~8700 pounds with absolutely nothing aboard and  empty tanks.

Thanks Randy.

I guess that is what the 30-1 weighs.

I remember some spec a while back that claimed 7900 lbs, which is what PHRF-LO 
has.
Empty and stripped out, no mast or sails and from what I can tell no wet spots 
Windburn
is 8500 lbs. Did your weight include the mast ( maybe around 200 lbs )?

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Launching in five days, and watching wet snow coming down this morning.




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Re: Stus-List Boom fittings for reefing attachments

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

At a recent LOOR night Geoff Moore from North Sails spoke about sails and trim
for the "offshore" races. His recommendation was to have the reefing line tied
around the boom.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Josh 
 
The 2007 C that we race and the 2008 C that I sail on both are just 
tied around the boom.  I think that more or less says this is still how it is 
done.  Our own ancient Frers 33 also tied around a painted boom.  No wear on 
paint on the two C and the wear I see on the Frers boom is not from the reef 
line. 
 
Mike 
Persistence 
1987 Frers 33 
Halifax, NS 
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Re: Stus-List New bearing arrived. How to make it tighter

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 The bearing should be snug in the cutlass. While it is hard
to describe snug once it is in you should not be able to
rotate it easily by hand.

You can cut the bearing down with a hacksaw. It might be easier
if you put a wooden dowel, plastic pipe or something in it that
prevents damaging the rubber while cutting it.

Try measuring the ID and OD accurately.

The only really strange bearing issue I saw was that someone left a
bearing in but removed the rubber part. Then tried to put a new
cutlass bearing inside the other one. It almost worked but confused
the next owner.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 16:28:06 -0500 
From: Brian Fry  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List New bearing arrived. How to make it tighter. 
Message-ID: 
     

Re: Stus-List best folding prop for 30 MK1 w/ A4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have the Gori 11.5 x 8 on Windburn, also with an Atomic 4.
My guess is that it is slightly over pitched and that 11.5 x 7.5
or 11.5 x 7 might be the optimal size.

I have not found it to be an issue since Windburn is kept light for
racing and bereft of bimini and dodger. While motor sailing, those
days where we can do 2 - 3 kts under sail, the over pitch is great.
Lower RPM, no noise or vibration , and can get to 6.0+ kts.

If your situation includes a heavier configuration for cruising, maybe
dealing with currents often, or long runs then you may be giving up
some speed on the top end.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

I see Gori does offer 

Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 08:11:20 -0500 
From: "Joe at Zialater"  
To:  
Subject: Stus-List best folding prop for 30 MK1 w/ A4 
Message-ID: <017e01d17872$d7c8a1f0$8759e5d0$@zialater.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii" 
 
I received the blessing from the Admiral to equip Zia with a folding prop 
this season.  I have been looking at our options and the Gori 2 blade geared 
prop 11.5 X 8 looks like it would do the job. 
 
Before I pull the trigger on this,  I would like to check with the list for 
opinions/experiences on brands, model etc.   
 
Currently we have a 2 blade fixed. 
 
Thanks a million. 
 
Joe 
Zia 
30 MK1 
Annapolis 
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Re: Stus-List FM antenna?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Yes, left a lot out. I am not sure how detailed, or long, to make these posts.
I guess the point is that the splitters work well. I have the Shakespeare unit
installed with a Shakespeare loaded whip. I was commenting that if the FM
reception is poor it may not be the splitter causing the problem.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 

Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 09:46:54 -0500 
From: Bill Bina - gmail <billbinal...@gmail.com> 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List FM antenna? 
Message-ID: <56d6fcde.2070...@gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed" 
 
There are some vital points left out of this analysis. A horizontal  
dipole antenna is only superior when aimed accurately at the particular  
station you want to hear. It is very directional. A vertical antenna is  
less focused as far as interference, but is omni directional, which is  
far superior when the listening station is one that moves and turns.  
Does anyone remember the brief period when embedded dipole windshield  
antennas in cars were a "thing"? Everyone got over that failed  
experiment pretty quickly, and went back to vertical whips.  How well do  
you suppose a horizontal antenna would work for your VHF? :-) 
 
Bill Bina 
 
On 3/2/2016 9:33 AM, Michael Brown via CnC-List wrote: 
> The splitter works well, worth the price. 
> 
> There are some technical challenges to consider. A VHF antenna will be  
> tuned 
> ( some better than others ) to 157 MHz. FM is 88 - 108 MHz. The better the 
> VHF antenna the less FM signal strength it will pass through. The FM  
> station 
> has a choice of polarizing the signal vertically, horizontally, most  
> do both. 
> The vertical whip antenna picks up the vertical version, which is  
> considered 
> to be more susceptible to interference. 
> 
> It may be that a FM specific dipole will work as well. 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILMORE-5035-DIPOLE-FM-ANTENNA-w-MOTOROLA-PLUG-FITS-VINTAGE-VHF-SCANNERS-/151928946680
>  
> 
> 28.5" each side is the correct length for FM. 
> 
> In the style of YMMV, if you have a well tuned VHF antenna with a 50'  
> run to the spiltter, then another 10' run to 
> the radio trying to pick up a "college" station around 88 MHz with  
> horizontal polarization is not going to work well. 
> 
> Michael Brown 
> Windburn 
> C 30-1 
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Re: Stus-List FM antenna?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 
 The splitter works well, worth the price.

There are some technical challenges to consider. A VHF antenna will be tuned
( some better than others ) to 157 MHz. FM is 88 - 108 MHz.  The better the
VHF antenna the less FM signal strength it will pass through. The FM station
has a choice of polarizing the signal vertically, horizontally, most do both.
The vertical whip antenna picks up the vertical version, which is considered
to be more susceptible to interference.

It may be that a FM specific dipole will work as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILMORE-5035-DIPOLE-FM-ANTENNA-w-MOTOROLA-PLUG-FITS-VINTAGE-VHF-SCANNERS-/151928946680

28.5" each side is the correct length for FM.

In the style of YMMV, if you have a well tuned VHF antenna with a 50' run to 
the spiltter, then another 10' run to
the radio trying to pick up a "college" station around 88 MHz with horizontal 
polarization is not going to work well.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1 



Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 16:18:38 -0500 
From: Josh Muckley  
To: "C List"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List FM antenna? 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
I have the Shakespeare FM splitter.  I can't exactly tell how good the VHF 
antenna works but I can tell you that the FM is only mediocre.  Biggest 
problem is that my sail instrument package causes all types of interference. 
 
Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 
On Mar 1, 2016 4:07 PM, "Jim Watts via CnC-List"  
wrote: 
 
> I have a car antenna, fully extended, parked in the space between the hull 
> and the nav station liner. Works well enough for my needs. 
> If you want to use masthead, you may want to check out the Shakespeare 
> antenna splitter and utilize the existing VHF antenna. 
> 
> Jim Watts 
> Paradigm Shift 
> C 35 Mk III 
> Victoria, BC 
> 
> On 1 March 2016 at 12:29, Chuck Saur via CnC-List  
> wrote: 
> 
>> Quick survey:  What are y'all using for FM antenna?  I have Bluetooth, 
>> Auxiliary inputs, iPad, GoFree (B Chartplotter), marina WiFi, Pandora, 
>> and nice, new speakers.  Wired for sound, I brag... 
>> 
>> But I want to listen to good ol' FM radio sometimes, and have issues with 
>> the single line antenna output stuffed into the back of my electro-locker. 
>> Seems in the UP of Michigan, radio is sorta sparse, but pretty good!!  Top 
>> of mast seems optimal, but unsure of space and interference???  What and 
>> where are you mounting something and getting best reception?? 
>> 
>> *Chuck Saur* 
>> Morning Sky 
>> C 35-3 
>> Straits area... 
 

 

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Re: Stus-List determining PHRF rating

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Paul,

  are you looking for:

1 - a SP ( Speed Potential ) rating for a C 34
2 - a SP for your C 34
3 - an ASP ( Adjusted Speed Potential ) for your C 34 ( possible rating 
adjustment for sail size )
4 - a valid  PHRF certificate, likely from PHRF-LO, so you can enter a race

This might help a bit to see which class your boat is in:

http://phrf-lo.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik=table=5=0=0=206

You can match length, beam and draft. Don't worry about displacement, it is 
usually pretty optimistic.


Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:45:17 -0500 
From: "Paul Hood"  
To:  
Subject: Stus-List determining PHRF rating 
Message-ID: <026901d1735c$02337fd0$069a7f70$@rogers.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="us-ascii" 
 
I'm looking for the PHRF rating on my boat and came across the C site. 
There are 10 models listed and I don't have a clue where mine fits in all of 
this. Would I use the Lake Ontario rating or the Manufacturers rating...or, 
do I look totally elsewhere? 
 
34 FOOT  
34 FOOT CB  
34 FOOT + DK  
34 FOOT + WK 
34 FOOT R 
34 FOOT XL  
34/36 FOOT  
34/36 FOOT R  
34/36 FOOT XL  
34/36 FOOT WK 
 
Paul Hood 
'82 C Georgian Bay, ON 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Bill,

  do the sport boats on Lake Erie have different FS and NFS ratings?

  I have been able to race FS against a wider range of boats the last
couple of years including J/80 and Melges 20. They have a "sweet"
spot in TWS, but do not perform exceptionally at higher or lower winds.

  No idea how one rating is suitable for spot boats.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 16:09:01 -0500 
From: "Bill Coleman"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 
Message-ID: <02d401d16e7e$6c34a860$449df920$@net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
I think the sport boats get screwed in the Jam Races, at least on L Erie, 
 
Their overall rating incorporates their sprit, which they get no use from in a 
JAM, not to mention their small jibs. 
 
  
 
Bill Coleman 
 
C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

PHRF Lake Ontario has supplied both FS and NFS ratings ( if appropriate )
for years. They use to track both FS and NFS races and analyze the results.

For 2012 season this was changed to keeping a FS SP based on race results
and using a calculated offset for NFS.

http://phrf-lo.org/index.php?option=com_content=article=508:nfs-delta=93:us-sailing-offshore-office=214

As other have mentioned the delta is around 16 - 18 sec/mile for some 
fractional rigged boats,
in the 22 - 24 sec/mile for many full hoist rigged boats, and 40+ for "sport" 
boats that might
plane or surf extensively.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
 

Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2016 19:26:04 + (UTC) 
From: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 
Message-ID: 
     <1620292786.1504268.1456255564054.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Greetings folks,We have a problem with how to handicap boats that race with jib 
and main only (JAM). ?The PHRF handicaps basically are for spinnaker racing. ?I 
believe that there were some clubs, a few only, that adjust numbers for JAM 
boats. ?We make adjustments to the numbers for our lake conditions and style of 
boat (older displacement etc.), but not sure how to fix JAM.Polars that I have 
seen for about 6 boats all show with chute only. ?Does anyone know if there are 
polars for downwind sailing without chutes? ?How can one arrive at those 
speeds?Could some of you whose clubs adjust numbers let me know any info you 
can on how that is accomplished at your club? ?And the rationale behind the 
adjustment.If it gets too specific for the whole list, we can take it offline 
later to keep traffic down.ThanksRonWild CheriC 30-1STL 
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Re: Stus-List Cutlass bearing again.

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I see these two Johnson bearings:

870322100  * BIND  ID: 1  1/4   OD: 1  1/2 Wall thickness: 
1/16
870322101   BIRD   ID: 1  1/4   OD: 1  3/4 Wall thickness: 1/8

You could try contacting a local machine shop to see if they could
turn down the "BIRD" to an OD of 1 5/8. 

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1





Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2016 17:02:46 -0500 
From: Brian Fry  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Cutlass bearing again. 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
I finally got my shaft coupling removed and the shaft pulled. 
This allowed me to get an accurate measurement of the bearing strut 
diameter. It is without a doubt 1 5/8". The shaft is 1 1/4". 
I cannot find a replacement anywhere for this size. 
WTH do I do now? 
Do I install a sleeve of copper pipe into which I press the bearing? 
I am at my wits end with this. 
 
Brian 
La Neige 
37/40 xl 
Havre de Grace MD. 
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Re: Stus-List paragon v-drive transmission

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Some of the transmissions are oil bath, and some share the oil with the engine.
If that oil is one of the newer oils it may have friction modifiers in it which 
can
be too slippery. When first going into reverse the symptom is poor power and
excess force on the "gear" shifter.

I have an atomic 4 and a straight ( non-V ) Paragon. Reverse operates by 
clamping
a band around the planetary gear hub. The clamping is performed by pulling a
wedge shaped bar in a slot. There is no locking mechanism to hold the bar in 
place
but after I switched oils the friction in the cable ( which is brand new ) is 
enough.

Initially I had to pull continuously on reverse to back out of the slip, and it 
seemed
that there was little power for 2 - 8 boat lengths. Then everything was good.

I switched to Castrol Grand Prix Motorcycle - Four Stroke that is advertised as
being wet clutch compatible.

http://answers.canadiantire.ca/answers/9045/product/0281826P/castrol-castrol-grand-prix-motorcycle-four-stroke-questions-answers/questions.htm

After the second oil change the difference was significant. I can pull up into
reverse, no need to hold it, and there is full power in about 1/2 boat length.

Also. lots of prop walk now ;-)

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

 


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Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have wondered what the limiting factor would be when carrying too much sail 
area,
and had a chance to test it out over a 5 hour sail. Part of the reason is I do 
sail and
race solo so knowing what to expect is an advantage, and also Lake Ontario does 
get
variable weather and sometimes poor forecasting.

The day in question started in the high teens and ended in 30+ kts. I flew a 
full main
and North 3Di 155% double handed.

As expected simple trim worked well to where we normally fly this combination, 
the
17 - 18 kt true range. With more twist and halyard tension things stayed OK up 
to
22 kts true and in combination with pointing up ( feathering ) we could go well 
to
wind and stay upright to about 24 kts. Surprisingly the VMG was good ( about 
28 degrees AWA ) and leeway was minimal.

I could sense the limit arriving at 27 kts true. Windburn was feathered pretty 
tight
and sail area was depowered so the equilibrium between over the bow wind drag
and force generated in the sails was getting close.

The limiting effect was wave height though. When we got hit by the random
"significant" swell it depowered us too much going up into it and then falling 
off
the back side forced a tack. We were ready for the tack so that was fine but
recovering from full canvas sideways in 27+ knots doesn't work well. My take is
that there is no way to power up into the wind so falling way off and building
hull speed downwind is required first. I could not tack normally so had to
time rounding up with a wave to get over, and then head down wind again
before trimming back up into the wind.

Hopefully a skill set never required.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2016 10:12:11 -0800 
From: Russ & Melody  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List When to reef C 33-2 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" 
 
 
Dwight's content should not be missed. 
Crew weight is as important as apparent wind  
speed & angle and maybe even include time to  
destination or course change for deciding "when to reef". 
 
For me, a simple observation "is the toe-rail  
getting buried" is the tell-tale. If she can't be  
put back on 'er feet by dropping the traveller,  
flattening the main or easing the vang & sheet to  
twist off the head, changing course a bit,  
getting some "wellies to weather" then it's time to reef. 
 
Let the toe-rail be your guide. This goes for any  
size of our boats, they are not initially tender  
so it is not fast or comfortable to sail "on yur ear". 
 
         Cheers, Russ 
         Sweet 35 mk-1 
         Vancouver Island 
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Re: Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have a C 30  "77" model year.
>From my HIN ZCC304531076 I would guess it is #453 laid up October 1976.

I have the sliding door and after a few years of ownership the PO dropped off 
the
folding door that the PPO had removed.

At haulout, so no mast and most stuff removed the crane weighs me at 8500 - 
8800 lbs.
Some of the C specs claimed 7,900 lbs which may have been possible stripped 
out,
one battery and tiller steering. I think in race trim carrying stuff like 
flares, anchor and rode,
#1 - #3 - spinnakers, spin and whisker pole  I would guess 10,000 lbs is 
reasonable.


  Also - from your other post on boom vangs - the early C 30 have a very low 
boom so
the mounting angle needs to be considered. The distance on the mast from the 
gooseneck
to above the mast collar is pretty minimal. Most boom vang installation 
instructions suggest
a minimum angle they should be mounted at and that usually isn't possible on 
the early 30s.
I have an Easykick II installed that works OK and does support the boom ( a 
racing requirement ).
Downwind we use it to control boom lift, and upwind it is useful for setting 
depth and twist.
I would recommend installing one, doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. I very 
much doubt
given the short distance on the mast it operates over and the stiffness of the 
mast that any
significant mast bend is generated. 

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


C Sailors-  
 
I noticed the owner of C 30 MK1 hull #1, Rick Bushie, is on this list. It's 
awesome that boat is still sailing, and that her owner is in this community.  
 
The C 30 MK1 hull #7 I just bought has a sliding door between the salon and 
the head, but no door between the head and the v-berth. Some of the C 30 MK1 
brochures (I suspect later ones) show a hinged door between salon and head, and 
a folding door or double hinged doors between head and v-berth. Does anyone 
know if the door(s) between head and v-berth were an addition in later hull 
numbers? Or maybe my boat's doors were removed by a former owner and never 
replaced. Thanks in advance.  
 
Also, Rick, what is the displacement of your boat? Sailboat data.com and the 
brochures show 8000 pounds. But the previous owner of hull #7 thinks it's 
higher, like 10,000 pounds. I'll measure her precise displacement by 
differencing truck scale weights of loaded and unloaded trailer after I launch 
her this spring, but just wanted to check with you.  
 
Cheers,  
Randy Stafford  
S/V Grenadine  
C 30 MK1 #7  
Ken Caryl, CO  
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Re: Stus-List Boom vanging...

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

1/4" stainless steel with stainless steel mandrel pop rivets have a tensile 
strength up to 2000 lbs.

http://www.crawfordproducts.com/ultragrip.htm

Even an aluminum / aluminum rivet is fairly strong at up to 890 lbs.

I doubt there is any advantage to using a rivet unless the wall thickness of 
the mast only allows
a couple of full threads to catch. With thinner section sizes a rivet may have 
more tensile strength.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 17:28:43 -0500 
From: wwadjo...@aol.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom vanging... 
Message-ID: <1528f80b523-34b0-1...@webprd-m22.mail.aol.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Eric, 
? I would be concerned that aluminum pop rivets wouldn't be strong enough.? 
They may be.? I drilled and tapped for stainless, used antiseize.  Have removed 
one at a time yearly since just to check.  All good.   
Bill Walker 
CnC 36 
Evening Star 
Pentwater, Mi 
 
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
 
 
On Friday, January 29, 2016 Eric Frank via CnC-List  
wrote: 
 
Just installing a Garhauer boom vang on Cat?s Paw this winter. ?Do you guys 
recommend aluminum pop rivets - in case I ever need to remove it? ?In my 
experience, SS screws tapped into the mast or boom hold fine but are a devil to 
get out because of electrolysis. ?The pop rivets can just be drilled out. 
 
Eric Frank 
Cat's Paw 
C 35 Mk II 
Mattapoisett, MA  
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Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have a Gori 2 blade 11.5 x 8 on Windburn, a 77 30-1 with an Atomic 4 ( 
Stevedore ).
My guess is that at 8 it is over pitched but 11.5 x 8 appears to be the 
smallest standard
Gori prop size. I can get to about 6.2 kts into light weather, and can tow 
another 10,000 lb
boat into waves at 5 kts. Reverse is fine though full power at a standstill can 
invoke a lot
of prop walk.

The advantage of being over pitched is that during light motor sailing the 
Atomic 4 is just
above idle, quiet and smooth. 

I have no complaints, though I usually am under auxiliary only coming in and 
out of the club.
If your usage included days of motoring into current and waves and as a cruiser 
you are
carrying more weight ( Windburn is pretty light for racing ) then I would be 
concerned about
the 8 pitch. When I spoke with a Gori rep at the Toronto boat show he mentioned 
they can
make the props at different pitches.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 10:10:28 -0500 
From: cenel...@aol.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding prop for 30-1 with A4 
Message-ID: <151ca3dd4c9-520f-...@webprd-m99.mail.aol.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
 
No two blade prop will do very well in reverse although I would get a geared 
one so that you can be sure that it opened. 
  
If you race, the lowest drag 2 blade demonstrated by tests in Yachting magazine 
was a Gori--which I have used for several years without problems. 
  
It takes a few seconds running in reverse to start 'biting' and moving the boat 
but she will move the boat. Once the boat is moving,  
you start to get some flow over the rudder and can actually steer. 
 
Just be sure you have reasonable room around the boat when you go to reverse. 
 
In my case, I coast to almost a dead stop, put it in reverse and rev the engine 
to get her moving 
in reverse and then steer her toward the slip with judicious use of low 
throttle in reverse or neutral.  
 
Without serious wind or tides, this method works for me--she only goes back 
into forward to stop her in the slip. 
If something messes up this scheme, back to open water and repeat! 
 
Maneuvering in close quarters between reverse and forward with several seconds 
delay is to be avoided with any folding prop IMHO. 
 
Charlie Nelson 
C 36 XL/kcb 
Water Phantom 
  
cenel...@aol.com 
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Re: Stus-List converting TOD results to TOT

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

PHRF Lake Ontario has the ToT multipliers listed in tables:

http://www.phrf-lo.org/index.php?option=com_content=category=81=198

PHRF-LO uses 566.431 and 401.431 for A and B, seems to be different from 
everywhere else.
That has the effect of setting the scratch boat at 165 which is fairly high, 
and "slow" boats get
more corrected time.

As an example, if in San Francisco two boats with PHRFs of 171 and 228 each 
raced for an hour
they would correct to 3245.4 sec and 3007.8 sec. A delta of 237.6 sec, about 4 
minutes.

On Lake Ontario it would be 3562.2 sec and 3239.64 sec, a delta of 322.56 sec 
or ~ 5 1/3 minutes.

There is always an interest comparing PHRF ratings between regions, but when 
the ToT correction
can be so different I suspect it adds another consideration. 

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 22:57:01 -0800 
From: Ian Matthew  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List converting TOD results to TOT 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
In San Francisco we use the same formula.  650 and 550 are the numbers. 
Works here! 
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Re: Stus-List Fuel vents

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The trap would answer the question if the water was in fact coming in the vent 
line.
If it was, it might identify the conditions that cause it.

I could imagine water splashing in a few tablespoons at a time, but not causing 
an
issue until enough accumulated in the tank to get picked up. That would leave 
the
owner wondering how a gallon of water got in.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:13:32 -0500 
From: "Dennis C."  
To: CnClist  
Subject: Stus-List Other fuel system water ingress sources 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
While we're on the subject, two other things to check: 
 
1.  Fuel fill cap gasket o-ring 
2.  Fuel fill cap if plastic.  It could be cracked. 
 
Dennis C. 

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 16:38:03 -0900 
From: Josh Muckley  
To: "C List"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fuel vents 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Michael, 
 
I can see what you were going for and I think it would partially work. 
Ideally a larger drop-out tank could be attached to the drain fitting and a 
fluid sensor added.   In my case it seems simpler to just re-plumb the vent 
inside the adjacent propane locker or up a lifeline stanchion.  I don't 
think it would out perform a centerline vent loop either. 
 
Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 
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Re: Stus-List Fuel vents

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I envisioned that it would capture any liquid coming to it, not specifically
acting as a fuel / water separator. More of a trap. The misuse of a fuel
rated item was just a safety consideration since it is in part of a fuel system
though generally not in contact with fuel.

If the water was coming in small quantities at a time it would be trapped
at least until the bowl was full. Which you could see, or have a water sensor
alert wired in.

Far from an ultimate solution, but for $40 it might catch cups of water.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:29:03 -0400 
From: "Marek Dziedzic" <dziedzi...@hotmail.com> 
To: <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fuel vents 
Message-ID: <blu184-ds5de4c0bbeefead8683478ce...@phx.gbl> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
I don?t think it would work. This fuel-water separator works on principle of 
fuel being lighter than water (so it floats on top) and it can separate small 
quantities of water from (large quantities of) fuel. The problem on hand is a 
large quantity of water (and no fuel) entering the line. I think that if you 
wanted a full proof design, something working on a principle of Dorade box 
(with a float?) would be required. 
 
Marek 
 
From: Michael Brown via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2015 10:15 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: Michael Brown  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fuel vents 
 
Would it help to put a fuel / water separator into the vent line? 
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Diesel-Fuel-Water-Separator-Replaces-5864-002-Thread-M14-1-5-/171859797203
 
 
The simple ones have no filter elements so would not impede air flow. They 
would capture water coming in. 
The more sophisticated ones have a water sensor, or a fitting for one. 
 
Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C 30-1 
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Re: Stus-List Fuel vents

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Would it help to put a fuel / water separator into the vent line?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Diesel-Fuel-Water-Separator-Replaces-5864-002-Thread-M14-1-5-/171859797203

The simple ones have no filter elements so would not impede air flow. They 
would capture water coming in.
The more sophisticated ones have a water sensor, or a fitting for one.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1
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Re: Stus-List Selden sprit kit install

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 The asyms work best when they bring the AWS up and AWA forward. That is hard
to do on the typical C which neither planes or easily exceeds hull speed. It 
looks
like a wild ride on the J/80s, Melges and such when they lift off and scream 
downwind
in a breeze.

I raced in a very mixed fleet for the last two years, the RC let all spinnaker 
boats race
each other if they wanted to on what is normally the white sail night. So with 
a 30-1
I am racing J/22, J/24, J/70. J/80, Kirby 30s. I have rigged with an over sized 
spin pole
of 14.44' and 195% asym and sym spinnakers. The sym is more useful for us with
the 1 mile upwind / downwind legs, though we can peel to the aym if required.

The Js are very hard to beat when the conditions are right for them. They need 
enough
wind to get to a plane downwind, but not too much to make the upwind leg tough.
The J/80s have a sweet spot of maybe 10 -14 kts. As you note in light winds 
they are sailing
all over the place downwind.

I have had both the sym and asym for two years now, still learning. I did about 
1200 nm
of racing last year, 1100 nm this year. I am getting the confidence up to do 
peels solo, and
trying to work out the best sail / tactics / VMG of each. I doubt that downwind 
an asym on
a sprit works anywhere near as well as a sym on a pole, at least on most of the 
C
The asym on a pole is a bit better but still not as good going deep. I doubt 
that even a
+9 sec/mile PHRF adjustment will compensate for an asym + sprit on a light wind 
day.

Upwind is a bit different. We carry either to 90 AWA. The sym causes more 
leeway which
may not be a problem. Tighter than 90 the asym will develop more power. If the 
TWA
is 100 or more the asym will easily bring AWA up to 80 or less and may increase 
AWS.
The sym will not. At the tightest upwind angles, with AWA of around 60 
surprisingly
then sym works as well as the asym, though I think neither is really running as 
intended.

With our running rigging tacking the asym is easier, which we only would do in 
very light wind.

The one condition where the asym works very well for us is 6 - 8 kts at around 
110 TWA.
It takes a while to get the speed up and playing with the trim, but if I can 
get the AWA up
even 1 kt and the AWA up to 75 - 80 then I get close to 2 kts more hull speed 
compared
with trying to work with the 155% genoa. My sym doesn't generate the same power 
and
won't do it.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2015 09:55:32 -0400 
From: "Gary Nylander"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Selden sprit kit install 
Message-ID: <4C50DDABD90142D5B2920192693C8243@GaryPC> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
The first thing to consider is whether you will get a ratings hit. I have three 
friends who have asym spinnakers added into their sail inventory. They each got 
a three second hit. But, they race offshore and do some medium distance stuff 
(20-80 mile races on the Bay). If the wind is right, the asym is a big help - 
they fly them off the pole so can move the tack back when the wind shifts or 
the course demands it. 
 
Agreed that for buoy racing, the performance gain is nil. But, if one can 
change from regular to asym at will (that is why the 3 seconds) then once in a 
while a big gain can be made with an asym. And one can go back to the 
symmetrical when the wind is aft. 
 
After sailing the last four years on a J-80, I appreciate the simplicity of an 
asym, but really don't like to have to sail all over the river while my 
symmetrical friends are going directly to the next mark. And here in light air, 
we don't get to plane often enough, period. 
 
The boats in question are two Cal 40's and a C 115. The Cals rate the same as 
the J-80 
 
My $.02 
 
Gary Nylander 
St.Michaels MD 
 

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Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I had a Raymarine ST4000 wheel drive that worked but in some circumstances
not well. Trying to use it upwind into waves had it steering all over the 
place, and
playing with the damping settings didn't solve it. At lower speeds it would 
hunt a lot.

At the Toronto boat show I spoke with the people at the Raymarine booth, and was
told to add a rudder sensor. Since I have no play in the steering and the 
geometry
doesn't change I also wondered why it would make a difference. The answer was
that the software handles the steering differently when it can measure the 
rudder
angle directly rather than stepping the drive motor and calculating the angle.

I added the sensor. My guess is that it didn't do much. Maybe a bit more stable
upwind, still not great though.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1


Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2015 12:06:07 -0400 
From: "Rick Brass"  
To:  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Autopilot Recommendations 
Message-ID: <01d1043e$bd619ef0$3824dcd0$@earthlink.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" 
 
>From all the comments over the past few years I know that David's comment is 
true. But I have always wondered "WHY?". What changed to make the rudder 
position sensor essential? 
 
  
 
Over the years I've had an Autohelm tillerpilot (800 I think) on a 27 and a 
Raymarine 1000 tillerpilot on my 25 with tiller steering. A Raymarine 3000 
belt driven wheel pilot. And there is a Navico 5000 wheel pilot on my 38 
(I'm sure it isn't older than dirt, but it is almost older than plastic). 
None of these has a wheel sensor - relying only on heading information from 
the fluxgate compass built into them to steer the boat. All of them worked 
well.  
 
  
 
The Navico took a bit of adjustment to the settings to optimize performance 
(I suspect the PO had never set it up since the wheel lock to lock setting 
was the default and not the proper number for the boat), but once set up the 
wheelpilot will steer the boat for miles and miles without a variance from 
the desired heading of over a degree or two. 
 
  
 
So what has changed with the newer autopilots to make the rudder position 
sensor so important? 
 
  
 
Rick Brass 
 
Imzadi  C 38 mk 2 
 
la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1 
 
Washington, NC 
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Re: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I went to 3/8 VPC for spin halyards to save weight. The knobby surface
provides good hand grip. The line locks well in the clutch.

I tried 7/16 for jib sheets and also found them a bit slippery. The other issue
is we broke the core on one line earlier this year. The core - core eye splice
was fine, the break occurred a bit back of where the tail was buried in what
I will assume was undisturbed core. Might also line up with the Harken Jib
car sheave, which is over sized for 7/16 line.

I would think that 7/16 is fine for a 30-1, though we do carry the 155% up
to higher wind speeds than some boats. It is a North 3Di which is considered
to be low stretch. We do not let if flog but I suppose with gusts there could
be shock load.

I have wondered with lines that have a slippery cover if there is some issue
with it sliding over the core, say as it rounds a sheave. I understand that the
core effectively carries the load, but if the cover is carrying anything that
could cause a stress point.

I switched to Maffioli Powergrip 10 mm. So far it seems perfect. Runs nicely on 
tacks,
lots of grip by hand and around the winch. Lowest stretch I have had for jib 
sheets
so the trim stays constant during gusts.

I spliced in an eye splice around Tylaska J Locks. Splice was OK, a bit hard to 
bury
the cover.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1

  

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 09:04:52 -0400 
From: David Knecht  
To: CnC CnC discussion list  
Subject: Stus-List self-tailing winch problem 
Message-ID: <4d6b4bb1-0d12-4405-b7be-982132216...@gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" 
 
We raced yesterday in 20+ knot winds and I found that the Barient 28 self 
tailing winches were both slipping in the self-tailer making it hard to bring 
the genoa in all the way.  I cannot find a line specification for the Barient, 
and when I replaced the line a few years ago, I got 7/16 VPC instead of the 
1/2? that was original. Is this to be expected in high winds?  I found 
something from Barient that said that the self-tailer was adjustable with 
spacers, but I can?t find that in the parts diagram I have, so I don?t know if 
it is true and whether I need to change spacing.  I had the same problem with 
the Barient self-tailing winch we were using for the mainsheet which also now 
has a slightly down sized VPC.  Is VPC just slippery and this is a 
characteristic of that line?  Thanks- Dave 
 
Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 
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Re: Stus-List Recommendations Please...

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The chart maps stiffness as heel from 1 pounds per square inch on the sails. 
The three Landfalls,
LF 42 - LF 43 - LF 38, have a sail area / displacement rating of around 15. The 
30-1 is 18.4, and
the 41 is 19.35.  The Landfalls are stiffer due to less sail area, the 41 due 
to a deep keel.

I have wondered if normalizing back to a common SA / Disp would be a more 
useful comparison.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1



 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:12:55 -0500 
From: "Dennis C."  
To: CnClist  
Subject: Re: Stus-List Recommendations Please... 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
Isn't it wonderful to have a great resource like cncphotoalbum.com?  The 
diagram is under "Technical Info" then "Stability Diagram".  The direct 
link is: 
 
 . 
 
To be picky, it looks like the LF 42 is stiffer.  Otherwise the 30 MK 1 
gets it. 
 
Also, since the site is a user supported resource, support can be given 
at: 
 
 
 
Dennis C. 
 
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: 
 
> Agreed. Somewhere in the archives there is a Dallenbach chart which shows 
> the relative 'stiffness' of most of the early C's. It would be pretty 
> useful in this selection. And the 30-1 is by itself. 
> 
> Gary 
> 30-1 #593 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> *From:* Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  
> *To:* 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe  
> *Sent:* Monday, September 28, 2015 2:52 PM 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Recommendations Please... 
> 
> The 30  MK I is supposedly the stiffest boat C made. 
> 
> Joe 
> 
> Coquina 
> 
> C 35 MK I 
> 

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Re: Stus-List C trademark stripe

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

We used tape about 5 years ago on my C 30 stripe, but painted the star.
Some edge chipping and wear but still OK.

I found a reflective tape at an auto supplier, can't remember which one, that
ended up being the correct width. By day it is solid red, at night it reflects 
red
and silver in alternate bands.

After the clean up of the cove it was an easy job with three people. One person
held the roll at the right height and tension, a second person peeled the 
backing
off as we went along and guided the tape, the third person firmly pressed it in.
Doubt it took 5 minutes a side.

We finished the tips with an X-acto knife.

Michael Brown
Windburn
C 30-1





Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:21:14 -0400 
From: Mitchell's  
To: CNC List  
Subject: Stus-List C trademark stripe. 
Message-ID: <8bf31be7-ce00-4762-b1a1-1fc1e641b...@yahoo.ca> 
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii 
 
The paint in my recessed stripes and stars is fading and peeling. Anyone have 
success with tape? How long tape will it last in the sun? Where did you get the 
tape?  
Len Mitchell 
Crazy Legs 
1989 37+ 
 

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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 115, Issue 112

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Don't hurt yourself laughing, PHRF-LO has the Star at 193.
That is with a -12 for no motor.

The skipper, a good friend, suggested something in the 160 range also.

Out of curiosity, when you say:

 And, we race in light wind and flat water, which favors them.

is it your observation that they seem to get up to a higher speed?

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:35:06 -0400 
From: Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! 
Message-ID: 02B5111ECEA84DF6AA1CB2C248F96462@GaryPC 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
What do your folks rate a Star? We only have one Wednesday night race where the 
fleets are combined, so usually they race one design - windward/leeward - which 
is what they like. But on that single race, our guys rate them at 162, which 
seems to be somewhat correct. And, we race in light wind and flat water, which 
favors them. The rest of the combined fleet ranges from a J-105 at 87 to a Cal 
2-27 at 213. 
 
Gary 
St. Michaels MD 
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Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Joel and Mike. I won't disagree with any of your points, though I was 
commenting
on what I think is a different topic. Aside from planning, surfing or 
momentarily being
overpowered in a gust some boats get to a much higher percentage of hull speed
in moderate winds. I think everyone understands hull speed, and that it can be a
soft limit, but to me a second factor is also in play. The ease at which a boat 
can
exceed hull speed.

I think most of it is from below the waterline drag, which also compounds with 
the
loss of apparent wind. The widest difference I see is when I am racing smaller 
boats
that are from dry sail. A common feature is a very slippery clean and polished 
hull,
no thru-hulls, and no prop or shaft in the water. I have depth + knotmeter, and 
five
water thru-hulls. Also, the 30-1 prop shaft and cutlass are not on the center 
line,
and in fact are angled both down and to port.

So I muse over the observation that in calmer water with a moderate breeze that
the smaller day sailors are easily getting to or exceeding hull speed, maybe 
because
they have so little drag. In my case getting to 5.4 kts is hard, again a guess 
but
I think drag has got to be the factor.

PHRF factors in displacement / water line and sail area to displacement, neither
of which is my ease factor.

I see it on my Tuesday night spinnaker race, where my fleet consists of J/22, 
J/24,
J/80, I guess a J/70 now, Kirby 30 and a Star.  Even without a spinnaker in a
spinnaker fleet, and a 15' waterline, the Star easily takes everyone level. By 
PHRF
it is also the slowest boat.  It just has a great ease factor.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


 


 
I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to 
be factored in that covers 
the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed. 
 
Yes, it should!!!  Planing boats get a huge break when the wind blows! 
 
Joel 
 

 
Message: 11 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 18:55:03 + 
From: Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List hull speed, planing, PHRF, etc ... 
Message-ID: 
     169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0e1...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Michael 
 
Typically sport boats have their planning capabilities accounted for in their 
PHRF numbers.  This is one reason why limiting a course to strictly W/L is not 
always desirable as it takes away a major component of some boats speed by 
removing any reaching legs? that is a discussion for another time though. 
 
A Viking 22 is not a sport boat but is light and will probably surf quite well 
in a wind. By contrast they would be pounded mercilessly going to wind in those 
same conditions.  Our first ever race on our former J27 was a 52 mile port to 
port distance race with winds well over 20 knots TWS coming over port quarter  
(likely much more).  We were regularly exceeding 12 knots over the water on the 
ST60 Speed instrument as we surfed down waves.  We would then drop off to 7 
knots as we stopped surfing each time.  We hit a high of 13.9 knots that day.  
(which we never ever saw again while racing in 7 years).  During the same race 
the boat ahead of us was a Peterson 37.  They never came close to 13 knots but 
they also never dropped below 9.  The boat immediately behind was a CC 34 ? 
same thing as the Peterson.  I suspect your 30 would also not slow down as much 
after the surf finishes as the lighter 22 but would have a pretty nice average 
boat speed during the day. 
 
I should note that after we dropped the spin and went with just a main for a 
while we continued to exceed 12 and drop down to 7s.  We averaged 8 knots over 
our course that race.  It was a wild and wet day.  At the bar after the finish 
a friend in a Tanzer 22 was there less than an hour after we finished and he 
flew only white sails.  Usually he is several hours behind.    The only other 
time we hit high speeds on speedo was just after we abandoned a race due to 
excessive waves and wind and were reaching back to port under reefed main and 
100% headsail.  While I was attending to cooler duties we surfed down a wave 
and briefly hit 15.0 knots.  Despite that it took our usual time to get back.  
As a proud papa of the boat I selected Max Speed both times and took photos at 
the dock.  On the day we hit 15 after abandoning a CC30-1 won the race. 
 
Mike 
Persistence 
Halifax 
 

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Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts!

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Not including surfing or being pushed by waves I rarely get over calculated 
hull speed on my 30-1.
Sometimes do it reaching on flat water with the 195% spinnaker. In one case I 
did get to about 7 kts,
which leaves an impressive ditch directly behind the boat. At the same time a 
Viking 22 slowly passed
me. Afterwards the skipper claimed he was doing about 7.2, occasionally 7.4.

I have wondered from a PHRF handicapping perspective if a number needs to be 
factored in that covers
the ease at which a boat can exceed hull speed.

The sustained highest speeds I get to are with a deeply cut 90% jib around 22 
kts true. It sheets in front
of the spreaders and inside the shrouds. As long as I am not pounding into 
waves I can do 6.5.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 12:31:42 -0400 
From: Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 26 Sail Plan Thoughts! 
Message-ID: 2E46EB485BC641329EB7254EBAB3F4D6@GaryPC 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Don't forget that when a boat heels, the waterline may grow, but I still doubt 
the figures quoted. I have never seen that on my (sometimes well sailed) 30! 
 
Gary 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

As far as I know if you have AWS and AWA you only need boat speed through the 
water
to get TWS and TWA which is shown by True on the i60 wind.

If you want to display the magnetic angle from where the wind is coming from, 
such as
on an old ST50 multidisplay, then you need boat heading which comes from the 
fluxgate
compass ( usually connected to the Autohelm ).

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 13:24:55 -0300 
From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade 
Message-ID: 
     CAAbfP6QiGDUfVKUJ7_q4WOE=OUVDP=jcu7q3ppcs9b_zj-y...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Sorry Fred, I wasn't clear. 
 
I was referring to the true wind display on a Raymatine i60 Wind. 
Raymarine Tech online says it needs a source of heading (and speed through 
the water which it gets from the i50 Speed already installed) to be able to 
display true wind? 
 
What are possible sources for heading?  Can my old Simrad/Robertson 
Autopilot provide that info to the i60 with some sort of NMEA 0183 to 
SeaTalkng converter? 
 
Ken H. 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

If your ST60 is giving you True readings then you have boat speed through the 
water
wired in to the Seatalk bus. I would guess you have a through hull paddle wheel
connected to a Speed or TriData unit.

That is all you need for the new i series, though somewhere there will be the
need to convert from Seatalk to SeatalkNG. Or connect the paddle wheel to a new
i series display.

When I installed a new SPX/5 Autohelm, i70 display, and converter I found the 
Raymarine
documentation a bit disjointed, lacking in a correct example of what I was 
doing, and in
one case was wrong in overview. They showed the Seatalk and SeatalkNG buses 
being
connected to the SPX/5, which you can do, but it does not do any conversion or 
anything
useful. I would normally only make a connection if there was some benefit to 
it. So ask
away if you have any questions.

For most people not racing knowing where the wind is coming from, ie a magnetic 
direction,
can be useful but maybe not critical. In racing I use it to guess what sail 
might be best for
VMG around the next mark. I have both symmetrical and asymmetrical spinnakers, 
so there
is a choice. On the longer distance races even seconds count, so guessing at a 
heading, sail
and sail trim helps. Winning by 68 seconds on a 27 hours race - priceless  ;-)


Mike



Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:48:02 -0300 
From: dwight veinot dwight...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade 
Message-ID: 
     CAAX9F+FJ2ff99mQNc8Zwoeizmjki3PmW8irAp-B5n7_o=zx...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
so my old Raymarine st 60 wind instrument gives me apparent wind speed and 
angle and true wind speed and angle at the push of a button...I figured 
those measurements were close enough to accuarte to be good enough for my 
sailing needs...I don't think boat speed or heading or anything else is 
required...are the newer units different 
 
Dwight Veinot 
CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* 
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS 
d.ve...@bellaliant.net 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade- SPX-5 with Seatalk and SeatalkNG

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I am guessing the e7d is SeatalkNG but the i40 is Seatalk.

At least with my SPX/5 and firmware level there was no conversion between
Seatalk and SeatalkNG.

The converter was easy to install, though it would have been easier if I knew
I needed it and hadn't dressed and tied all the cabling first.

In my setup I did not connect the power lead between the Seatalk bus and
the converter.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:30:03 -0400 
From: PME dre...@gmail.com 
To: CnClist cnc-list@cnc-list.com, Michael Brown m...@tkg.ca 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade- SPX-5 with Seatalk and 
     SeatalkNG 
Message-ID: 0e4d6c86-8083-4cc4-a6c4-17d20642e...@gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
 
Mike, 
 
I think I read the same Ray documentation which seemed to show that one could 
connect Seatalk and SeatalkNG devices 
via the SPX-5 controller.   I installed my i40 speed system with Seatalk 
connector wired to the Seatalk ports on the SPX-5.   It powers the i40 system, 
and the speed display works fine. 
 
I am planning on connecting the SPX-5 to my Raymarine e7d via SeatalkNG, and I 
was hoping the speed data would 
be sent to the e7d too.  But it sounds like this does not work?   Bummer!   I 
guess I will need to use a Seatalk to SeatalknNG converter. 
 
- 
Paul E. 
1981 CC Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose 
Carrabelle, FL 
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Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Does seem to be the case. I guess when I get too old for racing, which I hope is
not in the near future, someone else might step up to preserve the Windburn
racing heritage.

For sale, $20K in top condition racing sails, $10K in electronics, $10K in 
Harken rigging.
Comes with a CC 30 in good shape for free.

I suppose that is the case for most of us.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 14:11:56 -0400 
From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electronics upgrade 
Message-ID: 
     CAGAfpmahrA1e5jtR2PeUPni-u8pQB4Sw-TnBoXhDfje9Q1b3=q...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
how much does one spend on a '77 CC 30-1? 
 
Michael, the answer is, everything you've got and just a tiny bit more. 
you're welcome ;) 
 
Andy 
CC 40 
Peregrine 
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Re: Stus-List 3GM30F Oil Pressure warning

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

One thing that can cause this is when the oil is not draining back from the 
head or wherever
fast enough. At higher RPM you might be pumping more oil up, and after a while 
sucking
air in the pan instead of oil.

You might be able to determine if this is the case by measuring the oil level 
by dipstick while
it is running with alarm on. Or you could pull the rocker cover and check the 
drain holes.
Note that in most non-sailboat applications the engine is level and multiple 
holes share the
duty. I am guessing your 3GM30F may be at an incline, so if the rear drain is 
clogged it might
cause the problem.

Or not. Lots of other options.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

A heavy duty oil cleaner may help. 

Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 16:17:45 + 
From: Hoyt, Mike mike.h...@impgroup.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List 3GM30F Oil Pressure warning 
Message-ID: 
     169e312f80b4c044be2dc1780a7de72f0db...@hfxexc11.impgroup.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Oil changed in May. Used 15W 40 
Oil level checked July 22 
300 mile delivery to Cape Breton (Dundee then Baddeck) July 23 ? Aug 2 
 
Yesterday after running engine at 2800 RPM for approx. 5.5 hrs a ?clicking 
sound? was heard in cockpit.  Thought at first was from Ram mic  but was still 
there once disconnected.  Determined was coming from alarm speaker on Yanmar 
panel.  Tapped panel and then Oil pressure light illuminated and alarm sounded. 
 Shut down engine and sailed to dock (without crashing) 
 
At dock started engine and at idle no alarm or light.  Revved up to 3000 RPM 
and the light started flickering and a sputtering sound from the speaker (the 
clicking sound we heard earlier) which was followed by full illumination of Oil 
pressure light and full alarm siren.  Stoped engine and waited. 
 
A few minutes later retarted engine and had no alarm at idle, followed by 
sputtering and then full alarm at high rpms. Reduced RPMs to idle and alarm 
stopped and light turned off. 
 
Any thoughts? 
 
Boat is currently 3.5 hrs away by car so any parts will have to be taken with 
me in advance 
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Re: Stus-List winches

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 and is there anyway of improving the grip with either a replacement part or 
 modifying the existing serrations

My ARCO 40 winches are chromed bronze. I took them to a chrome plating shop and 
had them stripped and returned.
( Mayfair Plating   http://mayfairplating.com )
A machine shop lightly knurled them, and I cleaned up the work a bit with a 
small hammer and carbide scribe.
Mayfair plated them and did not polish the drum area.

The result is a knobby finish that is not abrasive. Works well. Cost was 
under $300 a couple of years ago.

The lowest part of the drum was not knurled but dimpled with a rounded punch, 
no sharp edges. It releases
the sheet quickly when pressure has been relieved, and does not prevent the 
line from climbing up the drum.

I most conditions three wraps will work with a 155% genoa. Above 16 kts four is 
required. With five wraps I can
tail and grind at the same time solo.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1





Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:06:39 -0400 
From: Tim Goodyear timg...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stus list winches 
Message-ID: 1c7570b3-264e-4d4f-8cc1-b361f4096...@gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
I trim main on a Swan 42 with pretty well maintained winches, clutches and 
line.  We are constantly fighting slippage when anything gets slightly worn.  
The main sheet winches take 5 wraps minimum when going upwind or they will 
slip.  High tech line is great, but it is slick stuff.   
 
Those multiple wraps seem to get a lot more grippy in ducking situations - and 
the Swan 42 has a very skinny rudder. 
 
Tim 
Mojito 
CC 35-3 
Branford, CT 
 
 On Jul 27, 2015, at 2:24 PM, Martin DeYoung via CnC-List 
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
  
 On Calypso with her 1970 Barient 36 primaries and the slippery hi-tech sheets 
 we need 5 to 6 wraps to reduce slippage.  With older well-worn sheets (used 
 for deliveries and cruising) we can get back down to 3 to 4 wraps.  To avoid 
 unpleasant surprises when tacking with 5 to 6 wraps on the winch we practiced 
 the best way to clear the sheet off the winch and insure it runs clear.  
 After each tack we ?fake down the line? starting at the winch to clear any 
 twists induced by the extra wraps. 
   
 The 1970 Barient?s drums have been worn smooth over the decades of heavy use. 
  They are not self-tailing winches.  I do plan to roughen up the drums a bit 
 by dimpling the surface with a nail set and hammer.  This project falls well 
 behind the current deck restoration efforts already in progress. 
   
 On Sailing Anarchy either in the Fixit or Cruising forums there is a topic 
 thread regarding how to roughen up a winch drum either DIY or using an 
 outside service. 
   
 Martin DeYoung 
 Calypso 
 1971 CC 43 
 Seattle 
  
  
   
 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
 Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 7:46 AM 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 Cc: Jean-Francois J Rivard; patrici...@cogeco.ca 
 Subject: Stus-List Stus list winches 
   
 Hi Herold.  
  
 Sounds obvious but I'll say it anyway:  Have you tried 4 wraps? 
  
 I read somewhere that the Correct number of turns is 4.  On my boat it's a 
 necessity, when It's blowing, 3 wraps is a waste of time and effort, they all 
 slip. 
  
 4 turns gets it done.   
  
 -Francois Rivard 
 1990 34+ Take Five 
 Lake Lanier, GA     
  
  
  
  
 On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 12:41 PM, patricia barkley-higginbottom via 
 CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
  
    Have an original equipment Barient 27 two speed self tailer winch on my 
  35-3 which allows the genoa sheet to slip under load, even when there are 
  three wraps on the winch. The self tailer does not hold the line in a 
  predictable fashion, releasing at the most inconvenient times., Is this a 
  common problem, and is there anyway of improving the grip with either a 
  replacement part or modifying the existing serrations. The sheets are 
  relatively new, and only one winch has this problem. 
  Harold 
  Celtic Spirit 
  Hamilton, ON. 
 ___ 
  
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Message: 8 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:40:23 -0400 
From: Peter Delean padluckypie...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Re: Stus-List 12 volt cordless drill

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The brushless motors do get better battery life.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/system/m12-fuel

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/accessories/batteries-and-chargers/2510-20

I have the 18V version, was on sale at the time. Great drill. One thing I like
is the ability to slow start into aluminum or SS and drill with good torque
at low RPM.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


 On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, John Russo via CnC-List  
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
 
 I am looking for a small light duty light weight  3/8 max bit size, 12 
 volt cordless drill that has a 110 volt charger and also has a 12 volt cord 
 with cigarette lighter adaptor that can be used directly connected to the 
 house batteries. 
 
 
 
 Does anyone have any recommendations? 
 
 
 
 John 
 
 Arpeggio CC 32 
 
 Norwalk, CT 
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Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I used the Duramax packing, same stuff as discussed in the pbase article.
Shaft turns easily, no heat build up and no drips at rest. It is hard to tell
what the flow rate is under power, a guess would be a drip every 2 - 5 minutes.

After a year I pulled the shaft ( easy to do on a 30 ). No wear or scoring. 
Shaft
is polished where the packing sits but other than that nothing to mention.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1




Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2015 06:13:00 -0700 
From: Russ  Melody russ...@telus.net 
To: robert robertabb...@eastlink.ca,cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 29-2 stuffing box 
Message-ID: 
     mailman.12.1433347202.24222.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed 
 
 
Good correction Robert. 
 
I should have said, ... will drip once per  
minute... (phew, metric still gets me sometimes :) 
 
And yeah, this guy does a great job of presenting boat chores information. 
 
         Cheers, Russ 
 
At 06:00 AM 03/06/2015, Robert wrote: 
Great site on how to repack a traditional stuffing box. 
 
Bev, as for the size of the packing material, it  
depends on the diameter of the prop shaft.as  
the article stated, I used three strands of  
3/16 flax on a 1 diameter shaft.?  However,  
mine does not drip at the rate anywhere near  
where Russ has stated 'one drip per second at  
running speed'...mine drips about two drops per minute. 
 
When I was repacking, I placed the three strands  
of flax into the packing nut but then could not  
get it to thread.if this happens to you,  
tipput two strands in first and compress  
them..open everything up and then put the  
third one in and then the packing nut should thread. 
 
Rob Abbott 
AZURA 
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax, N.S. 
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Re: Stus-List Mast Rake on CC 30

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The direction I was going in was setting a reference point for comparing mast 
rake
numbers between boats, or even getting back to last years tuning for those of us
that pull the mast every year.

Yes, the rake is whatever it is with the boat as sailed. Stern high or low.

I had asked a rigger a while back if adjusting the rake right after I stepped 
the
mast made any sense, since the boat was empty and the boom may not be on.
Even one person walking around would change how it sits. The answer was to
adjust the rake in real world conditions to were it should be. Then measure it
for reference for next year. It could be as sailed, but the advice was that just
getting the boat level ( only as a reference starting point ) was easily 
repeatable
even fully rigged or stripped.

I guess this assumes we have the waterline painted the same way, even say
amongst 30-1.

The other consideration is whether increasing rack by adding weight to the
stern, or decreasing rake by adding weight forward has the same effect on
weather helm that changing the forestay length does. No idea.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 10:57:59 -0400 
From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Rake on CC 30 
Message-ID: 00e601d09a1f$db178600$91469200$@earthlink.net 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Think about it a moment. You set mast rake with the boat in the water. By 
definition she is sitting on her lines and it doesn?t really matter if she is 
trimmed stern high or stern low. 
 
Gravity points straight down, so the plumb bob (weight on the end of the main 
halyard) hangs straight down and if you measure 6? of rake, you have the mast 
slanted 6? aft of vertical. 
 
In the days of square riggers, and on more modern topsail schooners, it is 
common to trim the boat so it is down slightly at the stern. It is supposed to 
make the boat faster; I suppose that could be because the press of canvas when 
going downwind would push the bow down. I can?t think of a hydrodynamic reason 
a boat down at the stern would be faster than a boat sitting with the bottom 
level, but there may be one. 
 
Among the things I acquired when I bought my 38 was some of her ratings 
information from IOR racing in the 70s, and an article from a Canadian sailing 
magazine about the 38-1 race boats and how to optimize them for tonnage racing. 
Seems the 38-1 was designed to be slightly down at the bow ? I presume so the 
weight of crew would bring her back to level in racing trim. And one of the 
tips in the magazine article was to add 100 pounds of ballast forward (I don?t 
recall the exact spot that was recommended) to accentuate the resting condition 
? and pick up a couple of tenths of rating points. 
 
Which is not really related to the discussion of mast rake. Just thought it 
might be interesting since the discussion is drifting toward hull trim. 
 
 
Rick Brass 
 
Imzadi  CC 38 mk 2 
 
la Belle Aurore CC 25 mk1 
 
Washington, NC 
  
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of William Hall 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 12:59 PM 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: William Hall 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Rake on CC 30 
 
 
Seems to me that if the boat normally sails stern-low, it moves the center of 
effort aft and has the same effect as raking the mast on a level boat... 
 
 
On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Michael Brown via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com  wrote: 
 
I think the initial tuning of about 8 of rake, usually done by hanging 
a weight on the main halyard, is a reference assuming the boat is 
sitting level in the water. At least a few of the CC 30-1 I have 
looked at are stern heavy, some by a couple of inches. I suspect 
that will add some to the rake that would not be there if the boot 
strip and water surface were parallel. 
 
Under sail with crew on board the boat may sit properly. Given that 
people have reported noticing a change in weather helm from even 
a modest adjustment of rake the error in initial tuning by having the 
stern 2 low might be significant. 
 
 
A couple of weeks ago while out for practice starts we flew a heavy 
wind #1 ( a flatter cut ) and full main. Winds were 18 - 22 kts, gusts 
to 30. It was the wrong amount of sail to have up but the helm was 
fine. Eased the vang a bit and left some twist in the main, kept the 
#1 flat. 
 
With the boat level I have about 6 of rake. 
 
 
Michael Brown 
Windburn 
CC 30-1 
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Re: Stus-List Mast Rake on CC 30

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I think the initial tuning of about 8 of rake, usually done by hanging
a weight on the main halyard, is a reference assuming the boat is
sitting level in the water. At least a few of the CC 30-1 I have
looked at are stern heavy, some by a couple of inches. I suspect
that will add some to the rake that would not be there if the boot
strip and water surface were parallel.

Under sail with crew on board the boat may sit properly. Given that
people have reported noticing a change in weather helm from even
a modest adjustment of rake the error in initial tuning by having the
stern 2 low might be significant.


A couple of weeks ago while out for practice starts we flew a heavy
wind #1 ( a flatter cut ) and full main. Winds were 18 - 22 kts, gusts
to 30. It was the wrong amount of sail to have up but the helm was
fine. Eased the vang a bit and left some twist in the main, kept the
#1 flat.

With the boat level I have about 6 of rake.


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

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Re: Stus-List mast step redo on a 30-1

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

That looks pretty much the same as I found on Windburn.
I used 2 white oak for two of the girders ( stringers ? ) and
1.5 for the center girder. The challenge was cutting the oak
to match the curve of the bilge, which was different on the
two sides. Further, the sides did not run parallel bow to stern.
I did smooth the worst of the bumps down with a grinder
and applied a coating of resin to re-seal everything.

I see from your picture #9 it was the same for  Admiral Maggie.

The area just in front on the foremost keel bolt appeared to be
the lowest point in the bilge. A bit of resin was poured in their
to level it, and a remote pickup installed for a Whale Gulper 320.

Getting the height right was also a process. I assumed the original
supports had settled a bit and there is not much square in the boat
to compare to. The top surface of the aluminum casting the mast
sits on is not the same thickness front to back, and the bottom
of the mast is not square. No idea if all of that was by design.

I also installed two 4 x 1/4 thick aluminum angle pieces, bolted
horizontally through the front and rear girders. They were drilled
and tapped to hold the machine screws coming down from the
mast step. Was your block screwed down directly into the girders?

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 17:10:27 -0400 
From: Aaron Rouhi admiralmag...@outlook.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List mast step redo on a 30-1 
Message-ID: bay179-w44f5e244aa918e2f4a0063a2...@phx.gbl 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 
 
 
Hey Nate,Here are some pictures from when I replaced my mast step few years 
back. The stringers were so rotted that I was able to remove them pretty much 
by hand! It was not pretty... 
I replaced them with 5 new stringers made out of 8/4 mahogany.  Make sure you 
mark up the height of your oak block so you can match it. This is also a good 
time to installed a bilge pump pickup hose in front of the mast (lowest part of 
the bilge). Doing that will keep your bilge dry... 
Pictures are here: 
http://imgur.com/a/SOWx6 
 
Cheers,Aaron R.Admiral Maggie,1979 CC 30 MK1 #540Annapolis, MD 
 
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 11:12:16 -0500 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List mast step redo on a 30-1 
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
CC: nateflesn...@gmail.com 
 
I'll soon have the mast out of my 1980 30-1 (for relocating her by truck) and 
want toforestall future mast step issues by redoing/strengtheningit now. The 
mast was last out 8 years ago. I've never pulled the oak mast step base plate, 
so don't know what to anticipate underneath. Advice welcome, pictures very 
welcome. 
I'm imagining figuring out the necessary drainage and keel bolt access, then 
using epoxy-saturated oak board or McMaster Carr fiberglass sheets to built a 
new support step, and maybe filling in what I hear is a large empty area with 
micro-balloon slurry? 
She's  an all-freshwater boat which sits in a cradle 7 months a year, which may 
be why its lasted this long with no signs of trouble yet. 
Nate FlesnessSarah Jean1980 30-1 
Siskiwit Bay MarinaLake Superior 
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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk CC 29-2

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

You could plug your specs in here and see what the recommendation is:

http://www.vicprop.com/displacement_size.php

I would have guessed a Gori 15X10 to be a little big, maybe the 14X9.5 is OK.

The 12X6 seems too small. If it cannot bite the water and stay connected
it will churn - cavitation - and the effect may be prop walk. Acting more like
a centrifugal impeller than a screw.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1  


Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 16:10:22 -0400 
From: Martin Kane martink...@sympatico.ca 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Prop Walk CC 29-2 
Message-ID: blu437-smtp450fc0619106756cf69f2abd...@phx.gbl 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
 
Boat was significantly over-propped when I acquired her. Largely because 
transmission ratio is 2.2:1 not 2.62:1 as stamped on the casing.  While the 
props that came with the boat (a Gori 15X10 and a 3 blade fixed 14X9) were 
too big, prop walk was not an issue. 
Just installed a Campbell Sailor  12x6 and the prop walk is severe (in spite 
of the additional tip to hull clearance). It is basically impossible to turn 
the bow to port in reverse . The bow swings to starboard and then once there 
is some movement through the water will crab sideways, but the bow will not 
swing around to port. I have not found any combination of throttle and 
rudder position that makes the situation any better. 
 
I need to replace the prop to avoid getting into trouble in close quarters 
at some point. Question to CC 29-2 owners:  Has anyone found a prop that 
works well  going forward and in reverse. 
 
Thanks in advance. 
 
Martin  
Recalculating CC 29-2 
Mimico Cruising Club 
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Re: Stus-List Rig - crack?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I would file/grind/buff down the suspected crack to see what it is. At worst the
end is defective and you are sure. I doubt taking 1/64 or less off will make a
cracked part any worse. At best after you buff it out there is no crack and the
die does not show up you should be good.

From your original photo #3 you might try in the middle of the flat part.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


 
Message: 10 
Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 09:24:57 -0400 
From: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rig - crack? 
Message-ID: 
     caddevn6a1wlpmnzg6ozbwrpjakr-tugu1z0+dtfugvrbgna...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Rob was by yesterday, bless him for coming out at 7:00pm on short notice .. 
then putting up with my rowing into the wind and chop. He's a good sport. 
 
Did the dye test .. jury is out. He's going to Navtec with the pictures and 
I should know by today. If I had more time I would replace it on principle 
but I've got crane time booked on Friday with no idea when the next 
opportunity might be, more than likely I'de be paying to have it done later 
in the season. The lost time is more of a concern than the spent money. So, 
if the rig needs fixing then I'm out for a couple of weeks at least. If not 
.. then the mast goes up on Friday just in time for our long weekend! If 
the best case scenario pans out I'll be making plans starting now to have 
the eye dealt with in the fall, as well as one seized tie bar, otherwise 
the rig is sound. I was hoping to spend boat bucks on a new cabin sole and 
running rigging this year. We shall see. 
 
Cheers, 
Steve 
Suhana, CC 32 
Toronto 
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Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Lots of choices. If we start with

- a non-racing application
- fairly stiff mast
- no desire for forcing a pre-bend
- a small amount of rake
- a minimal gap between the mast and partners at the cabin top

then

1 - pick a starting point and block the mast heel.
2- on a windy day, say towards the higher end of the TWS you would carry your 
largest headsail,
 go upwind and trim for best speed and point.
3 - most people want a bit of weather helm, and there is some guidance that the 
rudder should
    be turned 3 or 4 degrees to counteract the weather helm.

If you have lee helm add length to the forestay, too much weather helm shorten 
the forestay.

In my opinion the blocks and mast heel position on a typical cruiser or racer 
cruiser is then
used to adjust the mast position at the partners. With the backstay off going 
downwind
the mast should be able to reduce rack and maybe touch the front of the 
partners. Upwind
under full backstay the mast will move back and touch the back of the partners.

 Doesn't the luff moves forward when you move the foot forward? 

To answer the question, moving the mast heel forward although it increases the 
rake it does
move the whole sail forward and the center of effort goes forward. Moving the 
mast heel
backwards decreases the rake but moves the whole sail backwards. This is 
exactly opposite
to the effect of adding rake by lengthening the forestay ( or tightening the 
backstay ), which
also increases rake but moves the whole sail backwards. 

The result is if a boat has too much weather helm and the rake is reduced by 
moving the
mast heel backwards it will likely make the weather helm worse.

If a boat has too much weather helm and the rake is reduced by shortening the 
forestay it
will likely reduce the weather helm.

So why the likely? It is also possible that with a bendy mast and an older 
main that
moving the mast heel back could induce pre-bend in the mast which will flatten 
the main,
and cause the backstay to flatten it more. That can help weather helm also.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

Launched at National Yacht Club on Saturday!




Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 10:35:53 -0700 
From: Knowles Rich r...@sailpower.ca 
To: Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com,     cnc-list Cnc-List 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List LF38 Mast Placement in the Step 
Message-ID: 51c183d8-51a4-44cd-8530-92f0fc3d8...@sailpower.ca 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 
 
Hi All. I?ve been having an offline conversation with Josh, see below. 
 
Perhaps someone else might like to answer Josh?s questions as I can?t? 
 
Rich Knowles 
Nanaimo, BC 
INDIGO LF38 
Almost sold in Halifax, NS. 
 
 
 
 
 
On May 2, 2015, at 17:41, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: 
 
Doesn't the luff moves forward when you move the foot forward?  The original 
poster was asking about placement of wood blocks.  He had all 4 blocks forward 
of the mast and the mask back all the way aft.  I assumed that in moving the 
blocks to move the mast forward that this would move the foot forward as well.  
No mention of changing headstay length so I assumed it to be the fixed point in 
all of this.  Based on these assumptions the trailing edge of the mast and the 
luff edge of the sail would also move forward but the mast as a whole would 
have more rake.  Right? 
 
Josh 
 
On May 2, 2015 6:53 PM, Rich Knowles r...@sailpower.ca 
mailto:r...@sailpower.ca wrote: 
I'm confused. Since the luff is attached to the trailing edge of the mast, if 
the mast rake increases the luff must move along with it. Perhaps someone else 
can make more sense if this than I can for you. I'm at work but will post our 
conversation to the masses when I get home.  
 
RK 
 
On May 2, 2015, at 15:16, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com 
mailto:muckl...@gmail.com wrote: 
 
 What you said was that moving the mast aft moves the center of effort aft.  
 Since the original question was about placement of the mast foot being all 
 the way aft and the consequences of moving it forward I assumed you were 
 referring to the foot.  I had originally stated that moving the foot forward 
 would increase rake and then mis-stated that increased rake would reduce 
 weather helm.  I was quickly corrected and I conceeded that more rake equals 
 more weather helm. 
  
 So what is the combined effect of moving the luff edge forward but increasing 
 rake?  The two actions have opposite effects correct? 
  
 Josh 
  
 On May 2, 2015 2:28 AM, Rich Knowles r...@sailpower.ca 
 mailto:r...@sailpower.ca wrote: 
 Moving the mast aft moves the centre of sail effort aft and increases weather 
 helm. Simple geometry. 
  
 Rich Knowles 
 Nanaimo, BC 
 INDIGO LF38 
 Almost sold in Halifax, NS. 
  
  
  
  
  
 On Apr 30, 2015, at 11:15, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
  
 Moving the base forward should give more aft rake and reduce weather-helm. 
  
 Josh Muckley 
 S/V Sea Hawk 
 1989 CC 37+ 
 Solomons, MD 

Re: Stus-List Raymarine wind mast unit. ..

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The sticky but working MHU might be repairable.

There are kits available:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Raymarine-Autohelm-ST50-Wind-Vane-Bearings-O-Rings-/390530744370

That will do the ST50 units with black ends, some of the ST60 units.

The bearings are available separately, NMB DDR-830ZZRA1P25LY121.

The ID ( shaft ) is 3 mm, the outside diameter is 8 mm, no flange.

You can see the bearing by removing the wind cups. Note, if you remove the
wind vane you may have to recalibrate it later. No requirement with the cups.

I did attempt cleaning the bearings from a MHU that was in not too bad shape.
It would spin but not completely freely. Even after soaking and blasting through
with electronics cleaner and such the bearings were still poor.


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1
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Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Whale Gusher as in the foot pedal / level manual pump?

If you meant Whale Gulpher then +1 for those. When I rebuilt
the mast step I put the remote pickup at the low spot and
an electronic switch. Good so far.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 14:05:56 -0400 
From: Danny Haughey djhaug...@juno.com 
To: dblair...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com, capt...@gmail.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 37+ Bilge pump 
Message-ID: 7orp12qnj8oahh4u3vd9v46i.1427130574...@email.android.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
On my Viking, I installed 2 whale gusher pumps in a locker and just ran house 
down into the bilge. ?I did instal one flart switch in the sump to run one of 
the pumps automatically. ?I really liked that setup. ?The pumps stayed high and 
dry and there was less stuff in the bilge. 
 
 
From my Android phone 
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Re: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

 consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin 
 and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet

Typical it works poorly. On moderately heavy days were most boats can
get up towards hull speed and sail deep downwind the JAM boats will be
about as fast as the spin boats but will carry a +12 to +23 advantage.

On very light days if the scoring is time-on-time while everyone is gently
drifting downwind the boats with a +24 will be accumulating too much
adjusted time.

In moderate wind conditions the spin boats will sail to their ratings, but
so will the JAM boats. Might be fair for those days.

The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and 
 finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs.

For PHRF Lake Ontario the ratings are based on windward - leeward courses
with 1 mile legs in about 4 - 18 kts of wind. The ratings were never designed
for long distance races.

I raced last summer in a mixed FS - NFS fleet. Well, hard to call it racing and
I am not sure about the summer part either. Fleet spread was 91, and went
from a Kirby 30 and J/80 to a Sprinta Sport. I managed to see first hand all
the ways mixed fleets and wide PHRF spreads do not work.

At least it does reduce the pile ups at the marks you get in a OD fleet.


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
Brass via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 9:17 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List PHRF Adjustments for Spin and JAM in a single fleet 
 
OK. I know this has been discussed before. But I just spent almost two hours 
in the mail archives rereading a whole bunch of previous messages, trying to 
come up with a consensus opinion on how to adjust PHRF ratings to allow spin 
and JAM boats to compete in a single (small) fleet. 
 
What I firmly believe I have discovered is that, sort of like economists and 
politicians, if you laid all the opinions end to end they would never reach 
a conclusion. 
 
I know that a number of PHRF organizations give a boat both a Spin and a 
non-spin rating. And I understand that local some local organizations with 
small fleets running in a single event will adjust the ratings of boats in 
non-spin to promote more even competition. From what I can see, the credit 
for running non-spin seems to be in the range of 10-18 seconds, or 10-15% of 
the boat's PHRF. 
 
What I'm trying to do is plan for a CC Cup to be run as part of a local 
charity regatta called Pirates on the Pungo, in Belhaven, NC on the weekend 
of May 15-17. More on that later.
  
The race on Saturday is a longish (10-12NM) pursuit race that starts and 
finishes in the harbor and has north, south, east, and west legs. I know of 
about 15 CCs within a day's travel of Belhaven, so I'm guessing the fleet 
would include 8-10 boats, with some cruisers and 1 or 2 real racers. To 
promote camaraderie and competition, and also so I don't have to pony up too 
much for the prizes (the winner will get a half hull of his own boat made by 
Andrew Burton), we would have a single fleet. 
 
So help me here: 
 
How does your local PHRF or sailing club adjust the ratings between Spin and 
JAM to allow both types of boats in a single fleet? And how equitable are 
the results based on your experience? 
 
Rick Brass 
Imzadi  CC 38 mk 2 
la Belle Aurore CC 25 mk1 
Washington, NC 
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Re: Stus-List Whisker Pole

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The advantage of running wing on wing is to get the maximum sail area in
clean air. With a genoa of 155% or larger it will sit partially behind the main
downwind  when broad reaching. Not as much with a 135% and smaller.
Running dead down wind in light air wing on wing works great on a 170%
genoa, OK on a 155%, and not great on a 110%. Your 135% is in the grey area.
Also, on the larger jibs you really need a whisker pole to get the best shape
out of it. Helps on the 155%, not needed or the spin pole works fine on a 110%.

To me, somewhere around the 120% - 135% the jib has a PHRF rating problem.
It is not large enough to help out a lot downwind, yet is still large enough to
partially sit in the main's disturbed wind. Going to a 114.9% gives extra PHRF
adjustment and may work as well downwind on a broad reach.

 It seems that in light winds jibing / reaching is not paying off for me.

I can picture that. As you come up towards a beam reach the sails come in, keeps
the jib behind the main and you need a lot more speed to make VMG that you
are not going to get.

Here is something to try. On a light wind day run dead down wind
wing on wing and see what percentage of true wind speed you can get to.
It may be that with 2 - 5 kts true the best you can get to is 50%, ie 1 kt hull 
speed
in a 2 kt breeze, 2.5 kts in a 5 kt breeze. It may be linear only from 2 to 4 
kts.
You may need to borrow a whisker pole or larger spin pole for the test.

Configure some instrumentation to give you VMG ( maybe a handheld GPS )
and try some different angles on a broad reach. You may find 140 degrees
will be a bit faster. It may not be.

If the best hull speed you can get to is 40% or less of true wind going
wing on wing in light air and VMG is not faster on a broad reach you
may do best with a whisker pole. If you can get to 60% and a bit better
VMG on a broad reach then skip wing on wing and the whisker pole.

The reasoning is that by reaching you need to pick up extra speed, and
hopefully some better apparent wind, to make up for the extra distance.
If the sail plan is not producing enough power in light wind it is hard to
get the speed.

For cruising a 135% on a furler is a good choice. In PHRF, not so much.
Many clubs give a small credit for downsizing to a 135.1% - 145% jib,
maybe +4 NFS. If you are smaller than the 135% you may get +8.
It may be that downwind broad reaching on a 114.9% is not much
slower, but could give you a +18 adjustment.
 
If wing on wing is advantageous only up to 5 kts true, 3 kts apparent
then you likely do not need a hefty whisker pole. There is not that much
force on a 135% in 3 kts. If you find wing on wing produces the best VMG
up to 10 kts then you need something stronger.

I have the Forespar Line Control 12 - 22.  It is heavy, takes a while to set up.
The advantage of a heavier adjustable whisker pole is that you may use it
to set sail shape on a broad / beam  reach in heavier winds. I do not have a 
jib top
or sail cut for that. I can also run wing on wing up to 14 kts true. Likely
higher but at some point there is a risk of breaking something, rolling the
pole underwater, who knows what else.

The other thing you can try is flying the jib wing on wing. Works in light
air if your spreaders are in line and you can get the boom all the way out.
You will need someone to sit on the boom and control it for safety. What you
will do is cross over the lee so the wind is on the boom ( wrong ) side
but that might hold out the jib and fly it. If you change sheeting position
forward and from the rail you may get good sail shape.

If your course is set up with a windward mark and offset, and if you can
pick up speed while on the beam reach between them there are some tactics
to consider in the first few boat lengths after the rounding. You may find that
the extra boat speed is best used covering distance to the finish. Depends
on how well you coast. The only advantage to a heavy boat in a light
wind race. Carve by the offset, letting the jib and main out until almost
dead down wind. Then gybe the main and fly the jib.The thought is to be
gentle - don't use the rudder as a brake - and keep the sails filled.
After a few boat lengths you may want to change tactics. It is a bit
like when flying a spinnaker and you get pressure, the skipper heads down.

I guess this is one of the reasons we like the sport, infinite variables and 
solutions.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:44:37 -0400 
From: Jean-Francois J Rivard jfriv...@us.ibm.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Whisker Pole 
Message-ID: 
     ofbe4573e7.852f1065-on85257e0a.004bc0e1-85257e0a.0050f...@us.ibm.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
 
 
I'm looking for a used 12-22 ft (Absolute minimal length 18.9 FT) whisker 
pole. It seems that in light winds jibing / reaching is not paying off for 
me.. 
 
  I was a contender for any of the top 3 spots all the way to the weather 
 mark yesterday.. We had 

Re: Stus-List email list or forum

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

As a technical reference I like how a closed forum works. Who knows, I may need
to look up the best way to clean off Marvel Mystery Oil someday.

For the mix of technical, QA, social and banter the email digest works well 
for me.
I do tend to read in batches, sometimes days apart, so end up responding to 
things late.

I would contribute to adding a forum to the CNC site. The key points for me 
would be:

- simple password protection for at least posting
- ability to upload reasonable sized photos
- optional configurable email notification when something is posted
- ability to update / edit / add to something like a technical document

I understand this has some overlap with the existing website.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1
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Re: Stus-List How to run jacklines on an LF38

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

On longer runs, say over 20', there is a lot of mechanical ( geometric ? )
purchase pulling on the jackline mid way. I use low stretch webbing, the
stuff sailmakers use for tacks and reinforcing corners. Even on a 28' run
firmly tightened down I can easily lift the midpoint 2'. I suspect on a 40'
run with extreme low stretch webbing pre-tensioned to 500 lbs a 250 lb
shock load at the mid span would transfer a few tons of force into the
cleats.

After you set up the jacklines have a couple of people go mid span and
give it the hardest yank they can. I would be interested in the results.

Here is an article on webbing and stretch:

http://www.balancecommunity.com/knowledge/slackline-webbing/



Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 22:29:39 -0700 
From: Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com 
To: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net, 1 CnC List 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List How to run jacklines on an LF38. 
Message-ID: 
     ca+jz0fe51csomuff2xuutmo4tsysk4id09pmh11q5fsvngm...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Nylon is not the best choice for jacklines, you want something that doesn't 
stretch and lose half its strength when wet. One taut centerline jackline, 
if you  can rig it, the idea is to stay on the boat, not be cushioned in 
your ride behind it. 
 
Jim Watts 
Paradigm Shift 
CC 35 Mk III 
Victoria, BC 
 
On 12 March 2015 at 19:10, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
wrote: 
 
 For starters you need 40? or 45? flat nylon jacklines. It is best if you 
 can find or make a set with Dynema line or steel wire inside the flat 
 nylon. 
 
 
 
 On my 38 the jacklines get rigged with the eyes attached to the two 10? 
 cleats in the bow of the boat, then led on the deck inside of the shrouds, 
 aft to the cockpit where they are secured to a pair of padeyes in the 
 cockpit. The padeyes were left behind when I upgraded my traveler. 
 
 
 
 My tethers are double ended, so crew on deck can pass inside the shrouds 
 when going forward or ?Hook on, hook off? to go around the outside of the 
 shrouds. I?ve also been known to use the padeyes on the side of the mast 
 for the reaching strut as a place to hook on when standing at the mast to 
 reef or crank on the outhaul. 
 
 
 Rick Brass 
 
 *Imzadi  *CC 38 mk 2 
 
 *la Belle Aurore *CC 25 mk1 
 
 Washington, NC 
 
 
 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel 
 Sheer via CnC-List 
 *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:00 PM 
 *To:* Cnc-list CNC Boat Owners 
 *Subject:* Stus-List How to run jacklines on an LF38. 
 
 
 
 I need 'em for the NE voyage. The mast is 16+ ft back from the bow. Theres 
 a good, sturdy eye near the bow. I can run them to the cabintop handrails 
 at the cockpit, but that seems strange. Suggestions, please. 
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Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have no idea from a real world test how acetone and ATF work together as
a penetrating oil, but it does seem unlikely it works well. First off they
should not mix so they do not form a homogeneous solution. I would guess
that 100% acetone would work well to penetrate but it is not very slippery.
Even most hydraulic fluids are not naturally slippery, they require modifiers.
Power steering fluid and ATF are closely related, but likely have differences
in things like anti-foam additives. Doubt it would be a critical difference for
a home brew penetrating oil.

Some of the normal vegetable oils are much more slippery, and do mix
with acetone.

https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html

So 10% acetone and 90% vegetable oil may work as well as acetone - ATF.


The home brew formula may have started with 1,1,1-trichloroethane (a/k/a methyl 
chloroform)
and ATF - Ed's Red formula. Doubt it was worth the hazards involved.

http://fireironmfg.proboards.com/thread/87/penetrating-oil


The one thing that I have noticed is that when two properly sized and clean 
threads have
locked together nothing will penetrate to any degree that will help. That is 
why pipe thread
can handle pressure and not leak. Yes, it is tapered and has a specific thread 
but normal
non-tapered thread can seal as well.

Just speculating, but on an old rusty nut that was not torqued down hard the 
acetone
may do all the penetrating and loosen things up. The ATF may not penetrate at 
all but
helps when backing the nut off. So the fact that they do not mix is not a 
problem.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1




 
Message: 12 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 00:13:08 -0300 
From: robert robertabb...@eastlink.ca 
To: David Knecht davidakne...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tool recommendation 
Message-ID: 55010444.5040...@eastlink.ca 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed 
 
David: 
 
I will be brave to face  a genetic engineer.I suspect the 50-50  
acetone ATF concoction has more to do with the 'acetone' than the  
'ATF'.  I said earlier last week that I thought it was Power Steering  
Fluid ...both are petroleum based..its the acetonemaybe the  
petroleum based additive gives us sense of comfortthink about  
itmost of us are more comfortable with a drop of 'oil' than a drop  
of 'acetone'. 
 
I think it is the 50 % acetone that makes this concoction  
effective.it can be mixed with any petroleum product 50%-50% and do  
its thing. 
 
Rob Abbott 
AZURA 
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax,N.S, 
 
On 2015-03-11 11:41 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: 
 I never cease to be amazed by the information I get from this list.  
  This group has an amazittng array or talents and experiences, not  
 just in sailing but also in engineering, metallurgy, mechanics,  
 chemistry etc. etc. The only engineering I can provide advice on is  
 genetic engineering and I suspect there are not going to be a lot of  
 questions on that topic.  Sigh! 
 I will be sure to report back on tools and bolts when I find what gets  
 this one off.  I may buy a few wrenches just to see how well each  
 works in this not uncommon situation.  My box of ratcheting wrenches  
 dumped over a while back and of course ended up in the bilge in salt  
 water.  No more ratcheting happening there. 
 As to my real point- I had heard about 50-50 acetone ATF a long time  
 ago as a penetrant so I made some up to try for this experiment, but  
 found that the two are not miscible and phase separate almost  
 immediately. Is that expected and if so, which phase for the bolt?  Dave 
 
 
 Aries 
 1990 CC 34+ 
 New London, CT 
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Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I would advise an AGM, maybe as the starting battery and for emergencies,
simply in case of a knockdown or other rare event.

My background with AGMs is from the computer industry were the are used
in Uninterruptible Power Supplies ( UPS ). Overall I was not and still am not
impressed. The high quality units are about $80 for a 12V 18 - 20 AH battery.
Even in the situations were they are in a perfect temperature controlled and
vibration free environment, tended by an exotic and expensive charger they
typically only last 5 years and 2 - 3 full uses. The UPS will do a run down 
test,
which can be automated monthly, and a battery test weekly. So only once
a week the UPS will kick in and run from battery for a couple of minutes,
and once a month it will partially discharge ( configurable 30 - 70% ) the
battery and measure the actual AH available.

A golden life for a battery I would think, and as a guess about
50% of the UPSes get the battery pack changed around 3 years.
Some are still working, but from the monthly run down test have lost
too much capacity. Sometimes even with identical batteries bought at
the same time and run exactly the same one battery will die. So I end
up replacing all of them.


I had hoped that with the research and work being done on the larger
NiCD packs in hybrid cars that marine NiCD wet cells would become more
common.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1
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Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Hi Wally.

  I am interested. I have a CC 30-1 with an Atomic 4. Currently I am using a 
Gori
2 blade 11.5 x 8 but would consider getting a second one as a spare.

  If you get the right wave direction at the mouth of the Niagara River it can 
produce
some huge standing waves. I am not sure what physics would cause the folding 
prop
to close in air if it was rotating, my thoughts up to now would have been that 
the
centrifugal force would open it or keep it open.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 15:59:02 + (UTC) 
From: Wally Kowal wally.ko...@rogers.com 
To: Alan Lombard alan.lomb...@sympatico.ca,      cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props 
Message-ID: 
     734680612.3871840.1423756742424.javamail.ya...@mail.yahoo.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Alan, 
I have a two-blade Gori that I took off our 30 Mk 1 years ago that you can get 
at a good price.? We don't race and it folded once too often while my wife was 
docking. 
It is sized for an Atomic 4.? I have no idea where it is but I can look for it 
if you are interested. 
We had an interesting situation with it.? We were leaving NOTL Yacht Club, 
motoring over the Niagara River bar into a heavy north wind which created VERY 
tall waves, and every time the boat tipped over the top of a particularly large 
wave, the prop would leave the water and fold instantly.? We had to put the 
transmission in neutral then shift back into forward to re-open the prop. 
It took a few minutes of panic to figure out what was happening. 
Wally.Whistler IICC 30 '74 out of Penetanguishene, ON 
 
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Re: Stus-List Rigging Question

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

The force of a couple of halyards should not be enough to elongate holes
in the mast.

When I replaced the mast step in Windburn I doubted I would get the height
exactly the same so I made up adjustable mast collar hold down clamps.
I can see the deck rises a bit when the shrouds and backstay are tightened,
so as a starting point I make the clamps snug with the standing rigging tight
and a 50% on backstay. 

I am using the clamps to only take the flex out for the halyards, not to try
to overcome the set caused by the standing rigging. The theory is that
wind gust will transfer force into the halyards, cause the deck to rise which
in turn simulates easing the halyard. Exactly what you do not want in a gust.

If the clamps are tight before the standing rigging is tensioned, and if there
is a slight bit of softness in the mast step I could see where a lot of force
is going to be transferred into the clamps. I don't think that was their 
original
design intent.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 09:39:39 -0500 
From: Jack Fitzgerald j...@fitzgeraldforwarding.com 
To: Lee lchris11...@aol.com, CCList cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rigging Question 
Message-ID: 
     cajze_ajztydvs2fyjkpg+au6ak0euscaytryn61ynxx9wlv...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Why is the mast moving enough to elongate the holes in your mast? 
 
Best regards, 
Jack Fitzgerald 
HONEY 
CC 39 TM 
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Re: Stus-List 34 offshore

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Possibly Siggy's Dancer, DJ Richardson.

Dave posted under Do it yourself the
deck and chain plate overhaul he did.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2015 20:51:27 -0500 
From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com 
To: John Pennie j...@svpaws.net,     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 34 offshore 
Message-ID: d749aaf1-ef87-4b2a-918f-318955fbb...@gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
 
I used to see a 30 Mk 1 in the Caribbean for years. She'd been sailed down from 
Ontario. Our boats are pretty stout...certainly a lot better than some of the 
boats built for cruising these days. 
 
Andy 
CC 40 
Peregrine  
 
Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI  
USA    02840 
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Re: Stus-List CC 37+ engine size

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

As gasoline engines go the Atomic 4 has a flat torque curve.
There are various version of the A4 around, but the common 30 HP
variant had about 35 ft/lbs at 1000 RPM, and peaks around
43 ft/lbs. From about 1800 RPM to 3500 RPM it stayed within
about +/- 1.5 ft/lbs.

If you compare the Beta Marine 25 HP diesel ( BD902 ) it has a
similar curve, maybe +/- 2.5 ft/lbs from 1600 to 3600.

Since HP come from torque x RPM the HP curves are similar.

 On a 27 - 32 moderate displacement sailboat the Atomic 4 and
a 1:1 transmission was an adequate match. A target would be to
maintain 70 - 80% of hull speed at around 1800 RPM with some
head wind and seas.  On an A4 that would be around 13 HP. 

Fuel economy? I went by a gas station earlier today. Gas was
$0.81 a litre, diesel was $1.15 a litre. Ouch!

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1




Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 18:18:32 -0600 
From: Dennis C. capt...@gmail.com 
To: Jake Brodersen captain_j...@cox.net, CnClist 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 37+ engine size 
Message-ID: 
     canir+ysq4pdcgevnyemk8274dt44cz2d07_ogpifgons0yq...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Josh pretty much restated my argument for repowering from an AT4 to a 
diesel.  My main reasons were flatter torque curve and better  fuel 
economy.  The gasoline flammability issue had very little to do with my 
decision. 
 
Punching into a seaway with an AT4 sucks.  To generate the horsepower, an 
AT4 needs rpm's.  The 1:1 drive just results in making bubbles.  A diesel 
with a flat torque curve, a reduction gear and a big pitched prop takes a 
bigger bite without cavitating.  Blenders are great for frozen drinks but 
not for driving a boat through waves. 
 
The admiral and I spent a couple hours punching dead upwind in a narrow 
channel one day in 3-4 foot seas and mid-teens on the nose.  Sucked. 
Sitting back in Mandeville was a brand new 25 hp diesel and all the parts 
to repower.  We just didn't have time to complete the swap before that trip. 
 
As for the original thread, Yanmar, I think, recommends 1 hp per 500 lbs 
displacement.  I think that's a bit light. 
 
I seem to recall Nigel Calder recommends 1.5 hp per 1000 lbs. 
 
Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 
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Re: Stus-List Too cold to email?

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Official temp was -28C ( -18.4F ) last night. That is not the wind chill.
The house outside thermometer registered -30C ( -22F ) around midnight.
I am about 100 km north of Toronto. We may see a few days around -30F
in the winter, rarely may see something closer to -40.

Better so far compared to the Polar Vortex of last year.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 08:49:58 -0800 
From: Ronald B. Frerker rbfrer...@yahoo.com 
To: Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Too cold to email? 
Message-ID: 
     1420735798.94360.yahoomailba...@web122905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 
 
Got to zero here in STL with a -15 wind chill; hate to hear Fred's tales of 
woe. 
Some cars wouldn't start; guess the electric done froze up in the wires! 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
CC 30-1 
 
 
On Thu, 1/8/15, Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
 
 Subject: Stus-List Too cold to email? 
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 Date: Thursday, January 8, 2015, 10:05 AM 
  
 Haven't seen much 
 traffic the last few days.? It was 9 F this a.m. in 
 Annapolis!? School was delyed 2 hours so the little rugrats 
 wouldn't freeze at the bus stop. 
  
 --  
 Joel  
 301 541 8551 
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Stus-List Interlux Biolux - was Diving your own boat

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Interlux has added Biolux to some of their products available in the US.
The same base product sold in Canada is not available with Biolux.

As an example Interlux Canada sells VC-17m, Interlux US sells VC-17m Extra
with Biolux.

http://www.yachtpaint.com/can/diy/products/antifouling/vc-17m.aspx

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/diy/products/antifouling/vc-17m-extra-with-biolux.aspx

Since I am reasonable close to Buffalo NY and go into the US a few times a year
I have been able to compare the two variations of VC-17. First year I finished 
off
a can of VC-17m, then continued with the VC-17M Extra with Biolux.. At haulout
it was pretty apparent where the switch was made. As advertized, the Biolux 
version
had no slime and could be cleaned down easily minimal effort. The areas covered
with VC-17m took the normal pressure wash and some scrubbing.

The products are about the same price so if slime is an issue I would say try 
the
Biolux version of whatever you are using if you can get it.

I can get two seasons from one application of the VC-17m Extra with a bit of
a touch up at the waterline and a full recoat of the rudder. The leading edge of
the keel and rudder wear off, possibly because I did about 1,200 nm of racing
last year ( trip odometer on the GPS ). Maybe the bottom stays cleaner because
I did 1,200 nm last year

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


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Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

From a procedural point of view I believe the contractor has an inescapable
responsibility to inform a client of deliverables, costs and risks in a plainly
worded contract. Unless you have given clear carte blanc ro proceed with the
job the contractor has a further responsibility to advise you of issues that
would prevent the contract to be completed as awarded.

Good advise from Bill Walker.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:55:34 -0500 
From: =?utf-8?B?d3dhZGpvdXJuQGFvbC5jb20=?= wwadjo...@aol.com 
To: =?utf-8?B?RGFuIFV0aW5za2UgdmlhIENuQy1MaXN0?= 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cabin Sole replacement 
Message-ID: 
     mailman.615.1418425221.16668.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
I replaced my cabin sole on my 36 with European grade teak and holly plywood 
last winter. Did work myself.  Used old for patterns, did work 425 miles from 
boat and all fit like a glove.   
Paid about 280 a sheet for ply, pick up at distributor.   Needed two sheets.   
Applied epoxy to bottom and sides of all.   
9 coats varnish, sand between every other coat.   
I estimate 10-!5 hours fabrication, 10-15  hours varnish.  Two quarts varnish.  
The 36 has a lot of floor compared even to a 34.  Five separate pieces.   
This is a ridiculous amount that they want.  I wouldn't pay a penny over the 
yard estimate without really good reason.  Call your lawyer. 
Bill Walker 
Retired Judge and Lawyer 
Evening Star 
CnC 36  
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Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves replacement

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

When I switched from wire/rope halyards to all rope I removed the sheaves and
machined them from a V groove to a U groove. At the same time I replaced the
bearings with new oilite bronze. After two years I pulled the sheaves again and
the bearings were noticeably worn with cracks at the edges. Replaced them again.
Two years later it was the same story so I replaced them with Isomat Acetyl 
sheaves
that run on a matching Acetyl bearing. The bearing was drilled out to be a press
fit over the SS shaft. The last part was adding custom cut sheets of delrin on 
both
sides of the sheaves and in between to act as thrust bearings.

I suspect that a process was occurring that added significant friction and wear
with the previous aluminum sheaves and oilite bearings. The bearings were
crushing down enough even over one racing season to allow some slop, which
translates into the sheave twisting in the mast head. The side of the sheave
would then rub on some part and cause friction as the halyard tensioned.
The original setup used two sheets of aluminum to separate the sheaves, both
were heavily scored. At some point a previous owner swapped the plates
around to get a clean surface again. There is not that many rotations of the
sheave under load so judging by the depth of the gouges on the material
I would say the twisting force would have to be pretty high.

The bearing diameter on the acetyl sheaves is larger, and the plastic
to plastic slipperiness presents lower friction than the oilite on SS did. I 
have
not pulled the mast apart to do a thorough examination but a check when
I unstepped the mast for the season looked like there was no wear.

I did head sail changes during the Lake Ontario 300 in 20 to 30+ kts true.
Usually an outside hoist would require hard winching most of the way up,
with the new setup it was much easier.

The sheaves on a 30-1 are 3.5 OD and 0.5 width, 7/16 ID on the bearing.
A reasonable fit was the Isomat 85mm x 15mm ( 3 3/8 x 5/8 ) using a
22mm ( 7/8 ) ID and a matching acetyl bearing.

http://www.rig-rite.com/Spars/Isomat_Spars/isomat_sheaves.html

The acetyl is rated for handling wire halyards.


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 09:12:25 -0500 
From: Jake Brodersen captain_j...@cox.net 
To: 'davidrisch75' davidrisc...@msn.com,     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Masthead sheaves replacement 
Message-ID: 091a01d0115e$a9637550$fc2a5ff0$@cox.net 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
David, 
 
  
 
I replaced several of my sheaves many years ago.  The groove for the wire is 
not that deep.  All rope halyards run over them pretty easily without any 
additional drag.  I replaced mine because the plain bearing material had worn 
away.  The original stainless steel shafts were easy to clean up with emery 
paper.  
 
  
 
Jake 
 
  
 
Jake Brodersen 
 
?Midnight Mistress? 
 
CC 35 Mk-III 
 
Hampton VA 
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Re: Stus-List Klacko

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

That might have been the mast for Fantome, an R boat at the National Yacht Club.

http://www.fantomer18.com/

The mast was replaced in 2013 when the previous wood mast failed.
Does look good.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 11:16:16 -0500 
From: Ken Rodmell moo...@sympatico.ca 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Klacko 
Message-ID: blu436-smtp174fe6d34dad4145f1ba9b2b9...@phx.gbl 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 
 
Klacko has done repairs for me on my spreaders and several years ago built 
me a new holding tank. I?ve found them to be great to deal with?excellent 
work, reasonable, and a good attitude. 
 
BTW, the last time I was there, I was treated to a beautiful sight, they had 
just painted ( deep yellow) a new mast they?d made for an 8 metre and it was 
drying in their shed. 
 
Ken Rodmell 
Lotus CC 35 Mk II 
Toronto 
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Re: Stus-List keel bolts

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Glad your trip was yesterday.

Forecast today is for 70 km/hr winds with gusts to 100 along the shore.
Docking would have been interesting to say the least.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:12:03 + 
From: mcrom...@bell.blackberry.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List keel bolts 
Message-ID: 
     
134239895-1416841932-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1701521359-@b3.c5.bise6.blackberry
 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 
 
I have to agree. I had a small leak in my bilge two summers ago that strangely 
enough didn't go away by itself and got worse this past summer. The PO had told 
me about a hard grounding.  
 
I got it surveyed this fall after haul-out by a surveyor with lots of CC 
experience. Turns out I have hidden grounding damage.  I re-launched on Friday 
and sailed over to Bristol Marine in Port Credit on Sunday. Will be $$. 
 
At least I had a great sail yesterday...I had all Lake Ontario to myself. 
 
Mike  
Atacama CnC 33  
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network. 
Envoy? sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le r?seau de Bell. 
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Re: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I have user Sobstad in Barrie for standing rigging and swagged lifelines. The 
work is done
at Transat Marine which is also in Barrie.

http://www.transatmarine.com/main/homepage.html

You can contact Richard Osborne as Sobstad - sobs...@bellnet.ca

Transat was originally owned by John Osborne, Richards Father, who still works 
there. John is an
Olympic competitor, won gold in 1976 in the Tornado class. I have dealt with 
them for years and
have been pleased by the service and pricing.

If you are not in Ontario the shipping may be a major factor.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 13:32:28 -0600 
From: David Donnelly da...@gnuattitude.ca 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Standing rigging replacement 
Message-ID: t91x2u74hrt9cgj5c678ij48.1414092748...@email.android.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
I was thinking of replacing my standing rigging on my 26. I am thinking I can 
put it in a box and ship it to wherever so they can duplicate what I have now. 
I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it other than the threaded end for 
the turnbuckle on one of my lowers is bent slightly. I am sure everything is 
original 1977 so it may be a good idea to replace it. I would prefer to not 
involve cross border if possible but wouldn't rule it out. Does anyone want to 
recommend someone in Canada. Or USA if price is right. 
 
David 
CC 26 Mistress 
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Re: Stus-List torqing keel bolts

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Check the amount of bolt sticking out. You may need a deep
or extra deep socket. If the nut is 1 1/2 the bolt is 1 and
requires 350 ft/lbs of torque. To me that would be a 1 drive
and at least an 18 bar.

As a start I would recommend borrowing or renting the
appropriate socket, short extension and a 24 bar. Brace yourself
and give it a really hard pull. 175 pounds of force is a lot, not
too risky that you are going to exceed it by much.

If you get any movement of the nut then you have an issue
and should consider backing off the nuts, cleaning everything
and torquing them correctly.

If there is no movement of any of the nuts you may still
want to clean and re-torque them for piece of mind. Some
points to check is both the face of the nut and the matching
washer need to be clean and smooth. Also square.

I have a 1 drive set with deep sockets so have checked
or helped re-torque a few keels. A few have been loose,
maybe that way for years, but have not exhibited any problems.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1
 
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 11:42:57 -0700 
From: Russ  Melody russ...@telus.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List torqing keel bolts 
Message-ID: 
     mailman.10915.1413573802.4799.cnc-list_cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; Format=flowed 
 
Hi Lloyd, 
 
Sounds like you have a good mechanic. 
Good practice for fine work or critical assembly is back off   
re-torque but it's unnecessary for keelbolts. And is the spec for dry  
 clean or lubricated? 
 
We just need them tight enough, 10% over is no big deal. I would  
check each at spec then try again at 10% over on any that prove tight  
on first go, but stop at movement. 
 
But only 250 ft/lbs?... have you got 3/4 bolts? 1 should be 350 ft/lbs. 
 
I'm surprised he didn't suggest a torque-multi as Jim did. If you use  
an extension on the socket then you need to compensate for that  
torsion as well (depends on the length of the extension). 
 
KISS, we're closer to farm equipment standards here than race cars. :) 
 
         Cheers, Russ 
         Sweet 35 mk-1 
 
At 11:01 AM 17/10/2014, you wrote: 
 
Hello Listers, 
 
While on the hard want to check the nuts on the keel bolts and  
understand 250 lbs is needed.  Boat mechanic says it is very  
difficult to get the proper leverage deep in the bilge.  Anyone ever  
used a small jack and maybe also with a cheater pipe to apply side  
pressure against the bilge walls to move the torque wrench. 
 
Also, mechanic suggested slightly loosening the nuts first and then  
re-tightening.  That does not sound good to me.  Any thought on his 
suggestion. 
 
I thank any responses in advance always appreciate the help. 
 
Lloyd Lippe 
Finesse 
LF39 
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Re: Stus-List Bermuda Bound Bubble Runner

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

An interesting website on quotes attributed to Darwin:

http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/six-things-darwin-never-said

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2014 03:14:38 + (UTC) 
From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net 
To: OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca,      CNC boat owners, cnc-list 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bermuda Bound Bubble Runner 
Message-ID: 2122525.3884241.1412651678732.javamail.r...@comcast.net 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
Yeah, I would estimate many lives saved by the coast guard and life saving 
services may be less than worthy of their valiant efforts. Darwin stated that 
the strong survive, and the herd gets stronger that way. The prudent mariner 
takes precautions, prepares his vessel, learns skills necessary to navigate and 
operate his ship, but in today's world, every life has equal value and these 
weirdos get saved by amazing CG members risking their own lives. I don't like 
to judge but saving these idiots weakens the herd. My 2 cents.  
 
 
Chuck  
Resolute  
1990 CC 34R  
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md  
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Re: Stus-List boat batteries

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Any experience with Lithium-Iron batteries?

I have a Costco group 31 deep cycle that I use for house and starting the 
Atomic 4.
In reserve is a group 24 AGM that is intended to only be used to start the 
engine if
the house battery dies or in an emergency to get home.

I have considered saving some weight by making the AGM the house battery and
keeping a LiPB battery as the backup.

http://shoraipower.com/lfx36l3-bs12-p130

550 cranking amps, 36 amp hour equivalent, very slow self discharge rate and 
only 5 lbs.

With the racing requirements of sealed batteries for any new units ( older ones 
are
grandfathered ) I will be into a Gel or AGM at a minimum. For my use a single 
70 AH
house is all I need, and a suitable reserve for safety does need to be another 
80 lb AGM.

Also, in light use the LiPb may last a long time.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

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Re: Stus-List boat batteries

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Not Lithium Polymer, looking at Lithium Iron.

The LiPb batteries are fussy also, though not as much as LiPo. Also in most 
applications
a LiPo would be cycled a lot ( notebooks - RC toys - cell phones ), whereas I 
am considering
the main purpose to be a reserve battery that hopefully will not be used 
regularly.

The LiPb will work OK with a normal boat charger, but for best life there is a 
custom charger.

http://shoraipower.com/chargers-c43

I think in store mode it keeps the battery at a specific partially charged 
point.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1


Gary Nylander gnylan...@atlanticbb.net , 10/1/2014 4:08 PM:
  I use LiPo's - are you thinking of them? I've not heard of  LiPb's. LiPo's 
are very fussy. Must use a special charger which does a  controlled discharge 
and then equalizes the cells -  and you cannot  discharge them beyond a certain 
point - they die.   Gary- Original Message -From:Michael
Brown via CnC-ListTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSent: Wednesday, October 01, 
2014 4:00PM   Subject: Re: Stus-List boatbatteries   
Any experience with Lithium-Iron batteries?

I have aCostco group 31 deep cycle that I use for house and starting the 
Atomic4.
In reserve is a group 24 AGM that is intended to only be used to startthe 
engine if
the house battery dies or in an emergency to gethome.

I have considered saving some weight by making the AGM the housebattery and
keeping a LiPB battery as thebackup.

http://shoraipower.com/lfx36l3-bs12-p130

550 crankingamps, 36 amp hour equivalent, very slow self discharge rate and 
only 5lbs.

With the racing requirements of sealed batteries for any new units( older 
ones are
grandfathered ) I will be into a Gel or AGM at a minimum.For my use a 
single 70 AH
house is all I need, and a suitable reserve forsafety does need to be 
another 80 lb AGM.

Also, in light use the LiPbmay last a long time.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1

   

   

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Re: Stus-List c and c 29-2 mast cap

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Ouch! The club here has two smaller fixed cranes and a pole cat - a used 
utility truck with a
boom arm. The smallest fixed crane will do masts easily up to 30 - 32' boats. 
All are available
for free with volunteers operating the pole cat.

For haul out the club hires in two large cranes. So we get the masts unstepped 
and stored,
the cradles brought in by forklift and laid out, the boats hauled, stored over 
the winter, the boats launched,
the masts stepped and cradles stored for $900 on a 30' boat.

It is self service for the mast unstepping / stepping and layout on the mast 
racks, but there always
is lots of people to help.


I have removed and serviced the original sheaves on my 30-1 twice. I cleaned 
them up when I went
from wire to rope and replaced the Oilite bearings, then replaced the Oilite 
bearings again two years
later. The bearings were crushing a bit and the play allowed some sideways 
misalignment, ending
up in scoring the sides of the sheave and the mast casting. Also lots of 
friction at high loads.

Last year I replaced the two jib sheaves with Acetyl ( Acetal - Delrin ). I 
found ISOMAT had the correct
size and were the two piece design I wanted. So a smaller donut goes around 
the SS shaft. I purchased
that undersized and drilled it out to be a press fit on the shaft. The Sheave 
goes over the donut and
uses the increased diameter as a plain bearing. The Acetyl is very hard, in 
fact rated for use with wire.
So far this year, including numerous sail changes at over 20 kts in the LO300, 
the sheaves have
worked very well. Lighter weight, no grease required.

Will check them when I pull the mast next month.


Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:45:52 -0400 
From: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com 
To: 'Joel Aronson' joel.aron...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List c and c 29-2 mast cap 
Message-ID: 02b801cfd66b$874f4e40$95edeac0$@falconnect.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
We pay about $200 to unstep and $300 for the step at my marina 
 
  
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 9:27 AM 
To: Jean-Francois J Rivard; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List c and c 29-2 mast cap 
 
  
 
You got a bargain!  Cost me $400 to unstep the mast of my 35, and $800 for my 
28 in Annapolis! 
 
  
 
Joel 
 
  
 
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
 
I would just go ahead and pay to un-step the mast.   
 
I was all worried about that before doing it last spring.  It took 10 minutes 
of taping the rod threads (To mark the turnbuckle position adjustment),   10 
minutes for 'Stumpy' to pick it up with the travel lift and set it down on saw 
horses (So smooth, a complete non-issue) , and 85 bucks for the round trip.   
 
Best 85 bucks I ever spent.  There are so many other things you can fix, clean, 
lube, inspect, replace, and improve while you're at it..  
 
-Francois 
1990 34+ Take Five 
Lake Lanier, Georgia 
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Re: Stus-List Landfall 38

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

You may also want to take a look at the fleets in your area and see who you 
will be racing against.
If the LF38 you are interested in PHRFs in around 165 for white sail that could 
put you into a
varied fleet, possibly a lot of lighter 30 - 32' that will leave you in the 
dust around the cans.

You didn't mention if you intend to fly spinnaker. For many of the larger boats 
they will be in the
spinnaker fleet for the long distance races, and bowsprits with asymmetrical is 
common.

When the boats in the fleet are similar in displacement, sail area to 
displacement and basic
design then sailing to your PHRF number is a big question. Unfortunately now it 
is a bigger
question if you are heading out on a 14,000 lb boat with a big symmetrical and 
racing a
J/80 or such what is the wind speed.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1




Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:41:01 -0400 
From: Berry Fox fo...@cox.net 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Stus-List Landfall 38 
Message-ID: 40ace8ee-6bd3-4fd3-88b5-e25a60658...@cox.net 
Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii 
 
Hi, I'm seriously considering a LF38.  I'm looking for a performance cruiser 
but also want to race.  The LF38 looks like a great choice but I'm wondering 
about how it sails. I read through the archives and see that several of you 
racecan you give me any insights into how your boats perform?  What do they 
rate in your area and how do they sail to the rating?  How well do they point?  
Any other insights are appreciated.  Thanks in advance, 
 
Dan 
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Re: Stus-List Able bodied crew available in Toronto Area

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

Likely the same as most other clubs National Yacht Club has a membership 
category
for crew. Thanks to a few skilled computer programmers at NYC there is a full 
online crew
bank with skill level and preferences that automates the matches and emails 
everyone.

Every spring the club runs a special non-certificate Introduction to Keelboat 
Sailing.

http://thenyc.com/learn.php
...

This course runs two nights a week over seven weeks and provides  participants 
with a
basic understanding of keelboat sailing, with  instruction both in-class and 
on-the-water.
Topics include boat parts,  wind, weather, basic on-water safety and equipment 
(clothing, etc.),
sailing terminology, knots, rules, cruising, and some in-depth racing  
strategies.
This is a very popular course and space is strictly limited,  so please be sure 
to register early.

...

The deal is the course is $417 which includes one year of introductory crew 
membership,
normally priced at $276. Also includes a text book and a graduation dinner.

After some in classroom instruction the students get a walk around on club 
member's boats,
then go out for a sail, and at the end may go out for a race night specifically 
set up for the
training boats. The course is usually sold out.


Changing topics here - that was a large storm yesterday. At one point on radar 
it went as
far south as the Pittsburgh area and north maybe half way up Superior. I went 
out racing
in it. Thankfully RC set 1.1 mile legs once around. Saw 24 kts winds under 
spinnaker and
7.6 kts boat speed, but just can't catch the J/22 and J/24s downwind. A couple 
of the
sport boats finished in under 22 minutes. Guessing it was 17 minutes upwind, 5 
down.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:14:49 -0400 
From: Colin Kilgour charliekilo...@gmail.com 
To: Jean-Francois J Rivard jfriv...@us.ibm.com,     CC List 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Able bodied crew available in Toronto Area 
Message-ID: 
     cakr-nknf-hpw1u0ffz7jtr+c__xufksqszqur7cf+ztm3zd...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
There are always boats looking for race crew here, but if you're not in the 
network of sailors it can be hard to get started. 
 
If he has any sailing connections he should leverage them. 
 
If not, print up a flyer and post it at all the chandlers and yacht clubs 
in town.  They all have bulletin boards for such things.  You can also hang 
around the docks at some of the bigger clubs on race night and let it be 
known you're looking to crew.  There's almost always someone with a crew 
member stuck in traffic or at the office.  (Of course, you have to slip 
past security, but that's dead simple at most clubs - particularly on 
race night) 
 
Most clubs also have crew and associate member categories, but I wouldn't 
fork out for one of them until he's found a boat to crew on, because he 
could end up forking out for a membership at one club and then getting a 
ride on a boat from another club. 
 
(As a specific tip, Port Credit Yacht Club runs its J24 fall series every 
weekend until freeze up.  Those guys often need crew as the weather gets 
colder and people start to think about winter activities) 
 
Good luck. 
 
Cheers, 
Colin 
 
 
 
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List  
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
 
 Hi Y'all, 
 
 I've been talking about my sailing adventures to my young co-worker friend 
 from Toronto and he's interested in crewing. 
 
 On our lake the clubs have associate membership to allow folks without 
 boats to be members. This way they are able to access the crew wanted 
 side of the club website and crew on different boats. 
 
 Do you guys have similar options on Lake Ontario? My friend is interested 
 in sailing but is just getting started in life and does not have the spare 
 coin for a boat. He's a really nice guy, has no sailing experience, but is 
 very bright and pretty athletic 
 
 Please let me know if you need crew or can recommend clubs for him to get 
 started. 
 
 Regards, 
 
 -Francois 
 1990 34+ Take Five 
 Lake Lanier, Georgia 
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Re: Stus-List Able bodied crew available in Toronto Area Now Yacht Club Crew Membership

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

I should have said ...

In the context of clubs in the Toronto area with a club racing program I think 
many of the clubs
offer an associate - crew - junior ...  membership categories.

At NYC anyone can come in as a guest of a senior member for cruising or racing, 
even on a
regular basis. I think crew membership entitles the person to free club parking 
and a 7x24
access card. Without it parking is $5 a night on race / event nights and may be 
restricted
during regattas.

The other benefit of crew membership is the one week a year that throws terror 
in the hearts
of all the skippers, Crew Race Night. We take a new crew member that has 
limited helming
experience and switch everyone's position on the boat. First, second and third 
get their own
flag awarded that night. Now I realize that may sound silly, put at $276 for a 
flag it sounds
pretty inexpensive compared to what the owner spends ;-)

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1





Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us , 9/11/2014 1:20 PM:
I thought that when this subject (Yacht Club Crew Membership category ) came up 
before, the consensus was that most Clubs did not offer this category - or 
force crew on Cruising boats to join.  I would be very interested to hear what 
Clubs are now doing, and if they require membership by crew what the annual fee 
is. 
Pequot Yacht Club (Southport CT) does not have a crew membership category.  No 
restrictions on non- member crews other than parking restrictions (must park 
offsite)


--JonathanIndigo CC 35III
SOUTHPORT CT
On Sep 11, 2014, at 13:04, Michael Brown via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
wrote:

Likely the same as most other clubs National Yacht Club has a membership 
category
for crew. Thanks to a few skilled computer programmers at NYC there is a full 
online crew
bank with skill level and preferences that automates the matches and emails 
everyone.

Every spring the club runs a special non-certificate Introduction to Keelboat 
Sailing.

http://thenyc.com/learn.php
...

This course runs two nights a week over seven weeks and provides  participants 
with a
basic understanding of keelboat sailing, with  instruction both in-class and 
on-the-water.
Topics include boat parts,  wind, weather, basic on-water safety and equipment 
(clothing, etc.),
sailing terminology, knots, rules, cruising, and some in-depth racing  
strategies.
This is a very popular course and space is strictly limited,  so please be sure 
to register early.

...

The deal is the course is $417 which includes one year of introductory crew 
membership,
normally priced at $276. Also includes a text book and a graduation dinner.

After some in classroom instruction the students get a walk around on club 
member's boats,
then go out for a sail, and at the end may go out for a race night specifically 
set up for the
training boats. The course is usually sold out.


Changing topics here - that was a large storm yesterday. At one point on radar 
it went as
far south as the Pittsburgh area and north maybe half way up Superior. I went 
out racing
in it. Thankfully RC set 1.1 mile legs once around. Saw 24 kts winds under 
spinnaker and
7.6 kts boat speed, but just can't catch the J/22 and J/24s downwind. A couple 
of the
sport boats finished in under 22 minutes. Guessing it was 17 minutes upwind, 5 
down.

Michael Brown
Windburn
CC 30-1



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:14:49 -0400 
From: Colin Kilgour charliekilo...@gmail.com 
To: Jean-Francois J Rivard jfriv...@us.ibm.com,     CC List 
     cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Able bodied crew available in Toronto Area 
Message-ID: 
     cakr-nknf-hpw1u0ffz7jtr+c__xufksqszqur7cf+ztm3zd...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 
 
There are always boats looking for race crew here, but if you're not in the 
network of sailors it can be hard to get started. 
 
If he has any sailing connections he should leverage them. 
 
If not, print up a flyer and post it at all the chandlers and yacht clubs 
in town.  They all have bulletin boards for such things.  You can also hang 
around the docks at some of the bigger clubs on race night and let it be 
known you're looking to crew.  There's almost always someone with a crew 
member stuck in traffic or at the office.  (Of course, you have to slip 
past security, but that's dead simple at most clubs - particularly on 
race night) 
 
Most clubs also have crew and associate member categories, but I wouldn't 
fork out for one of them until he's found a boat to crew on, because he 
could end up forking out for a membership at one club and then getting a 
ride on a boat from another club. 
 
(As a specific tip, Port Credit Yacht Club runs its J24 fall series every 
weekend until freeze up.  Those guys often need crew as the weather gets 
colder and people start to think about winter activities) 
 
Good luck. 
 
Cheers, 
Colin 
 
 
 
On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List  
cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: 
 
 Hi Y'all, 
 
 I've