Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret
-Caveat Lector- I heard of something like this before, maybe the same thing, it was called an infinity transmitter which would send information out even if the phone was off or no line was being used. On Tue, 07 August 2001, MIKE SPITZER wrote: -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: tenebroust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret -Caveat Lector- This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's data is secure. Scary. I'll say! Any one ever hear about that film chip (about the size and look of a single hit of window pane LCD, circa 1975) that would statically attach to the mouth mic of any phone, and would then allow normal functioning of the phone, while ALWAYS bugging the room/rooms adjacent to the room with the bug? This technology, allegedly developed at Cambridge, was said to be THE ABSOLUTE single most secret device to have ever been classified by an alphabet agency. I mean, just think for a few MINUTES. How'bout paying a janitor to put one on the conference room phone, the one that rings into the secret board room meeting once a year, the one on the gazilianth floor of IBM Towers, Rockefller Center, NYC, upon which the meeting deciding how much of their profits were to go into RD for the next year, and in what new technologies! With just this, one with the funds (albeit few) could cause a major fluctuation on the exchange. Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret
-Caveat Lector- That goes without saying, but it is not an excuse to be less than diligent in the rooting out of what we can. Stating that it is so and then doing nothing and saying nothing is not the answer. Sure it goes on that is why we must expose it and tlak about it in forums like this!! On Wed, 08 August 2001, Jeanne S wrote: -Caveat Lector- They are already using it. There is no privacy on the web. They watch anyone they see as a threat. Jeanne - Original Message - From: tenebroust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret -Caveat Lector- This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's data is secure. Scary. On Tue, 07 August 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffFONT SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0A HREF=http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html;http://www.wi red.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html/A BR BR BR BRFeds: Spy Tool Is a Secret BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=1 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0By A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Feds:%20Spy%20Tool%20Is%20a%20Secret Declan McCullagh/A /FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0 BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=02:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0IMG SRC=http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/ima ges/spacer.gif WIDTH=89 HEIGHT=21 BORDER=0/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0 BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that details of a BRnew electronic surveillance technique must remain secret. BRJustice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the prosecution BRof an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified keystroke logger BRwould imperil ongoing investigations of foreign intelligence agents and BRendanger the lives of U.S. agents. BR BRIn court documents A HREF=http://www2.epic.org/crypto/scarfo/gov_supp_brief.pdf;(PDF)/A filed Friday, the Justice Department claims that BRsuch stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent hostile intelligence BRofficers from employing counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law BRenforcement. BR BRU.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan A HREF=http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45730,00.html;heard arguments/A last Monday in the BRprosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan shark BRoperation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit additional briefs BRbefore he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose details about BRtheir keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP passphrase. BR BRPolitan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters. BR BRDonald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit filed Friday BRthat there are only a limited number of effective techniques available to BRthe FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger BRsystem.' He said that if criminals find out how the logger works, they can BRreadily circumvent it. BR BRThe feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that they've BRsaid they may invoke the A HREF=http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/pl096456.htm;Classified Information/A Procedures Act if necessary. BRThe 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires BRprotection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national BRsecurity. BR BRIf that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom, but the BRtrial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say that if a BRcourtroom is not sufficiently secure, the court shall designate the BRfacilities of another United States Government agency as the location for BRthe trial. BR BRBut the FBI's Kerr said that CIPA's extreme procedures aren't good enough. BRSays Kerr: Even disclosure under the protection of the court ... cannot BRguarantee that the technique will not be compromised To assume otherwise BRmay well lead to the compromise of criminal and national security BRinvestigations, and, in some cases, threaten the lives of FBI or other BRgovernment agency personnel. BR BRScarfo allegedly used PGP to encode his confidential and incriminating BRbusiness data. With a judge's approval, FBI agents repeatedly sneaked into BRScarfo's business to plant a keystroke sniffer -- it could be either
Re: [CTRL] FBI Must Reveal Computer Snooping Technique
-Caveat Lector- One hope the evidence collected will be thrown out since the search was indiscriminate and barred under the constitution, God forbid though it should go to the Supreme Court Lord only knows what they would rule on the subject considering their willy nilly al over the field rulings. On Wed, 08 August 2001, radtimes wrote: -Caveat Lector- FBI Must Reveal Computer Snooping Technique -Judge Updated: Tue, Aug 07, 2001 http://news.excite.com/news/r/010807/18/news-crime-surveillance-dc NEWARK, N.J. (Reuters) - A federal judge on Tuesday ordered the government to reveal the high-tech computer snooping technique used by the FBI to gather evidence against an alleged mobster. In a case that privacy advocates say smacks of Big Brother, U.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan ruled that the government must reveal the details of the computer monitoring system it used to gather evidence against Nicodemo Scarfo Jr., who is charged with running illegal gambling and loan-sharking operations for the Gambino crime family. Scarfo is the son of imprisoned mobster Nicodemo Little Nicky Scarfo. The case is believed to be the first in the nation in which federal agents installed a secret surveillance system in a personal computer system under search warrant, and the first to be tested in U.S. courts. The FBI recorded virtually every keystroke made on Scarfo's computer at his Belleville, New Jersey, business, including passwords, using a key logger device. Whether the system is hardware or software is unknown, prompting a motion by Scarfo's attorneys to reveal its makeup so they could have it analyzed and make a case to suppress the evidence it gathered. Politan ruled that in order to decide the lawfulness of the government surveillance, he must see a full report on how the device works, imposing an Aug. 31 deadline. In this new age of rapidly evolving technology, the court cannot make a determination as to the lawfulness of the government's search ... without knowing specifically how the search was effectuated, he wrote. This requires an understanding of how the key logger device functions. In most, if not all search and seizure cases, the court ... understands the particular method by which the search is executed. ... Because of the advanced technology used the court does not have the benefit of such an understanding. The government argued that revealing the workings of the system might jeopardize national security and endanger FBI personnel and those working with them. Politan gave the government 10 days to provide additional evidence as to why revealing the technology would endanger ongoing investigations and later national security operations. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Re: [CTRL] Australia Irangate
-Caveat Lector- Australia has been a key player in the Iran, Iraq (gate) business that has taken place in this country, as well as BCCI, just look at the Nugan Hand bank and tell me people in Australia weren't involved in the whole deal. On Wed, 08 August 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.thewest.com.au/20010808/news/state/tw-news-state-home-sto19238.html;http://www.thewest.com.au/20010808/news/state/tw-news-state-home-sto19238.html BR/A BR BR BR BRCash for guns - Beazley denies spy's claims BR BRBy Anne Burns BR BR BR BRA SECRET agent's claims that Labor got an $8.5 million pay-off for the Hawke BRgovernment's role in illegal arms dealing with Iran is set to be probed by a BRparliamentary inquiry. BR BRThe claims are a potential time bomb for Labor leader Kim Beazley in the BRlead-up to the Federal election. BR BRAustralian Democrats Senator Andrew Murray, a member of the joint standing BRcommittee inquiry into electoral funding, said the committee had to look into BRthe allegation. The committee is chaired by Liberal Senator Chris Pyne and BRdominated by Liberals and Australian Democrats. BR BRIf it agrees to a probe, allegations which implicate former prime minister BRBob Hawke, failed tycoons Alan Bond and Yosse Goldberg and WA Labor's 1980s BRfundraising record will come under the spotlight. BR BRSenator Murray has called for political donations from foreigners to be BRbanned because they cannot be monitored. BR BRMr Beazley was the Hawke government defence minister when US-backed arms for BRIran were allegedly shipped through Fremantle and stored at WA defence BRfacilities. BR BRBrisbane-based investigative journalist Marshall Wilson's submission to the BRcommittee, which was tabled in Federal Parliament yesterday, said the BRallegation that the Labor Party accepted a big donation, either in return for BRor in appreciation of participation by the Australian government in illegal BRarms trading, had never been thoroughly investigated. BR BRThe claims were made by ex-Israeli Mossad agent Ari Ben-Menashe, whose BRapplication for political asylum in Australia was rejected by the Labor BRgovernment in 1992. BR BRMr Ben-Menashe, an Israeli military intelligence agent for 10 years until BR1989, gave evidence about illegal arms dealing with Iran and Iraq to the US BRCongressional inquiry into the Iran-Contra affair. BR BRHe has alleged that the WA Labor Party's discredited fundraising arm, the BRCurtin Foundation, got $8.5 million from a CIA-linked company in 1987 as a BRreward for Labor government complicity in Iran arms shipments. BR BRHe claims Mr Hawke was aware of the arms shipments and the payment - a claim BRMr Hawke denies - but then treasurer Paul Keating did not know. Mr BRBen-Menashe says he is not aware if Mr Beazley knew. Mr Wilson said the BRallegations should be investigated by a royal commission if the committee did BRnot take up the case. BR BRHe said Prime Minister John Howard knew of the allegations because he had BRinterviewed Mr Ben-Menashe when in opposition. Mr Howard was told that arms BRhad been shipped through Fremantle for four months in 1987, including 4000 BRAmerican missiles and Vietnamese and North Korean artillery. BR BRSenator Chris Evans, WA ALP secretary at the time, and former premier Brian BRBurke dismissed the claims yesterday. BR BRA spokesman for Mr Beazley said the allegations were as bizarre as they were BRuntrue: It's the sort of thing Jeffrey Archer might make up - and he's in BRjail. Mr Bond has described the allegation that he was the link man in a CIA BRpay-off to the John Curtin Foundation as absolute rubbish. BR BR BR/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret
-Caveat Lector- Of course. It seems they learned their lesson from Echelon and any new stuff is not going to be seen or heard from any time soon. On Tue, 07 August 2001, MIKE SPITZER wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: Wired Magazine Feds: Spy Tool Is a Secret (Politics 2:00 a.m. PDT) http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html?tw=wn20010807 Revealing information about a classified surveillance technique would threaten national security and put government agents at risk, say U.S. government attorneys. By Declan McCullagh. Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FPE] Judge bars 'Viagra defense']
-Caveat Lector- I am usually not the one to jump to the defense of a pharmaceutical agent but in this case I must. It seems to me that some people will use whatever they can be it Viagra or twinkies just to get out of responsibility for their actions. On Tue, 07 August 2001, Amelia wrote: -Caveat Lector- Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:12 AM Subject: [Fwd: [FPE] Judge bars 'Viagra defense'] http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/1news/alabama/080601_rape.html The Associated Press Alabama - August 6, 2001 Judge bars 'Viagra defense' The Associated Press A man faces trial today for the rape of an 18-year-old woman, but he's been barred from using the Viagra defense. Will Wright Jr., 42, of Midfield does not deny assaulting the teen-ager, said defense lawyer Charles Salvagio. But Salvagio said Wright is innocent because side effects from the popular male impotence drug contributed to the rape. Jefferson County Circuit Judge Teresa Petelos ruled Friday that lawyers can't make claims that Viagra causes sexual aggression. She also barred them from even mentioning the drug. We don't have a defense, Salvagio said. It's hard to prepare a case when the defendant doesn't remember what happened. Wright is charged with first-degree rape and sodomy. He could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted. He has a previous sexual assault conviction from 1984. The question now is whether Wright should immediately appeal Petelos' ruling or appeal after the trial if he's convicted, said Wilson Myers, Wright's other lawyer. Viagra in some people causes aggression and amnesia. We don't think he is responsible for his actions, Myers said. Prosecutors argued there is no evidence to support the aggression claim. The judge agreed in a one-page ruling that says the defense failed to show that their claims are reliable and not pure conjecture. I'm glad this is over so we can focus on the real issue in this case, and that is the rape of this victim, Assistant District Attorney Jill Ganus said. Wright is charged with assaulting the teen-ager while holding a gun to her head on July 20, 2000. Green said prosecutors have been assisted by Viagra manufacturer Pfizer Inc., which rejects claims the medicine could influence Wright's actions. There is no medical or scientific evidence, none whatsoever, linking Viagra with aggressive or violent behavior, said Geoff Cook, a spokesman for the New York-based Pfizer. Studies in more than 3,600 patients support the conclusion that Viagra does not cause aggression. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Small business owners... Tell us what you think! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vO1FAB/txzCAA/ySSFAA/KlSolB/TM --- --~- Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
Re: [CTRL] [prj] Author of Fortunate Son Suicide or Arkancide?
-Caveat Lector- Interesting bit of news this. It seems that Arkansas may have some more ties to Bush yet. It has been apparent that the whole Mena business has put Clinton and Bush in bed together and that there may have been still some favors owed if this death is anything but what we are told. On Tue, 07 August 2001, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: Note: We archive similar assassination posts at: http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html From: Lloyd Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: New Paradigms Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [prj] Author of Fortunate Son Suicide or Arkancide? Date: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 2:53 AM Rare Book Searches - Ruling Class/Conspiracy Experts: http://a-albionic.com/search.html * Conspiracy Shopping Cart: http://a-albionic.com/shopping.html * Misc Shopping On-Line http://a-albionic.com/ads/srch.html ** Soft Skull's press statement. David Cogswell remembers Jim Hatfield. Information about the Haley Hatfield Trust. Dear Friends and Members of the Press, We have been reeling from the news since Friday. Jim Hatfield is gone. In a country where not enough reporters and talking heads have the courage to speak truth to power, Hatfield, the President's most controversial biographer, ended his own life in solitude in an Arkansas motel last week. I knew Jim. He could be tempestuous, moody and unpredictable. He was also intensely driven, articulate and full of Southern charm. When I spoke with his widow Nancy on Friday, we agreed, He was a good writer. He was a hell of a fighter and you wanted him on your side. Just last month we spent a weekend together in Chicago on the trade show floor of Book Expo America. He signed books, shook hands, worked the crowd, spoke out, strategized with me and revealed sources. We went non-stop together to promote his Bush biography Fortunate Son. He was fond of quoting Langston Hughes, I've been insulted, eliminated, locked in, locked out, and left holding the bag. But I am still here. Like Hughes, Hatfield will live on through his books. Jim's life will not be soon forgotten. The story of Fortunate Son is gravely important. Jim was on the verge of collapse due to financial difficulties, and part of this was due to the failure of this book. The American media followed the trail laid for them: the piercing inquiries into Bush's drug history were diverted into ironic stories about Jim Hatfield's own checkered past. After Hatfield was fed information and then discredited, he faced financial ruin and obscurity. He lost two other book contracts. His death was by his own hand but the causes go deeper. October of 1999 was glorious for him: he celebrated the initial publication of Fortunate Son and the birth of his daughter. But October was shattered by a book burning, a two-year long media carnival, and the character assassination of Jim Hatfield, an ex convict turned author who had paid his debt to society. Jim Hatfield's death is in part on the hands of an imperious American media establishment that reserves the softest touch money can buy for George W. Bush and all sons of privilege. Jim Hatfield, a working class journalist unannointed by the media elite, was viciously made into an example. He had a fearlessness that will be missed. -Soft Skull Press July 23, 2001 I went through a lot of old e-mail from Jim today. An epigraph he often used that caught my attention was from Langston Hughes. I've been insulted, eliminated, locked in, locked out, and left holding the bag. But I am still here. There is cruel irony in that statement now. Thinking a lot about Jim. Certainly he made some big mistakes that could be considered fatal errors in their totality. Someone called him reckless, and he did have that aspect to his personality. People talk about Clinton having a character flaw, and it rings with some truth. Bush is so flawed it was hard for me to find anything good about him, but Jim did that. Reading Jim's book was the only time in my life I ever felt sympathy for the Bushes. For always and ever he deserves credit for that. Since all the media coverage about Fortunate Son focused on Bush's alleged cocaine bust in 1972, I was surprised when I read it to find that the book was not a slam. It was not mean-spirited or a witch hunt, as I was expecting. It was in fact a rather even-handed portrait that brought out the human aspects of its characters. I felt sympathy for the Bush family when George W.'s sister died. I was impressed that the kids he worked with when he did his community service loved him. His famous personality had never appealed
Re: [CTRL] Feds- Spy Tool Is A Secret
-Caveat Lector- This sounds like a very interesting case that is well worth keeping an eye on, since a keystroke interceptor would enable the Feds to bypass any type of firewall or encryption and if they can do it willy nilly then no one's data is secure. Scary. On Tue, 07 August 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffFONT SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0A HREF=http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html;http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45851,00.html/A BR BR BR BRFeds: Spy Tool Is a Secret BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=1 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0By A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Feds:%20Spy%20Tool%20Is%20a%20Secret;Declan McCullagh/A /FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0 BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=02:00 a.m. Aug. 7, 2001 PDT BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0IMG SRC=http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/images/spacer.gif; WIDTH=89 HEIGHT=21 BORDER=0/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Verdana LANG=0 BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0The U.S. government has invoked national security to argue that details of a BRnew electronic surveillance technique must remain secret. BRJustice Department attorneys told a federal judge overseeing the prosecution BRof an alleged mobster that public disclosure of a classified keystroke logger BRwould imperil ongoing investigations of foreign intelligence agents and BRendanger the lives of U.S. agents. BR BRIn court documents A HREF=http://www2.epic.org/crypto/scarfo/gov_supp_brief.pdf;(PDF)/A filed Friday, the Justice Department claims that BRsuch stringent secrecy is necessary to prevent hostile intelligence BRofficers from employing counter-surveillance tactics to thwart law BRenforcement. BR BRU.S. District Judge Nicholas Politan A HREF=http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45730,00.html;heard arguments/A last Monday in the BRprosecution of Nicodemo S. Scarfo, the alleged mastermind of a loan shark BRoperation in New Jersey. Politan asked both sides to submit additional briefs BRbefore he decided whether or not to order the feds to disclose details about BRtheir keystroke logging device, which captured Scarfo's PGP passphrase. BR BRPolitan has barred attorneys in the case from talking to reporters. BR BRDonald Kerr, the director of the FBI's lab, said in an affidavit filed Friday BRthat there are only a limited number of effective techniques available to BRthe FBI to cope with encrypted data, one of which is the 'key logger BRsystem.' He said that if criminals find out how the logger works, they can BRreadily circumvent it. BR BRThe feds believe so strongly in keeping this information secret that they've BRsaid they may invoke the A HREF=http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/pl096456.htm;Classified Information/A Procedures Act if necessary. BRThe 1980 law says that the government may say that evidence requires BRprotection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national BRsecurity. BR BRIf that happens, not only are observers barred from the courtroom, but the BRtrial could move to a classified location. Federal regulations say that if a BRcourtroom is not sufficiently secure, the court shall designate the BRfacilities of another United States Government agency as the location for BRthe trial. BR BRBut the FBI's Kerr said that CIPA's extreme procedures aren't good enough. BRSays Kerr: Even disclosure under the protection of the court ... cannot BRguarantee that the technique will not be compromised To assume otherwise BRmay well lead to the compromise of criminal and national security BRinvestigations, and, in some cases, threaten the lives of FBI or other BRgovernment agency personnel. BR BRScarfo allegedly used PGP to encode his confidential and incriminating BRbusiness data. With a judge's approval, FBI agents repeatedly sneaked into BRScarfo's business to plant a keystroke sniffer -- it could be either software BRor hardware -- and monitor its output. BR BRDuring last Monday's hearing, Judge Politan wondered aloud how the law should BRtreat the keyboard tap. BR BRWas it akin, Politan wondered, to a telephone wiretap, regulated by the BRfederal law known as Title III? Perhaps it was a general search of the sort BRloathed by the colonists at the time of the American Revolution and BRthereafter outlawed by the Fourth Amendment? Or was it, as the government BRargued, just like cops rummaging around someone's home or office with a BRsearch warrant in hand? BR BRThe difference is crucial: If Politan rules that the FBI's keystroke monitor BRis a wiretap, the evidence may have to be discarded and Scarfo would be more BRlikely to walk free. That's because wiretaps must follow strict
Re: [CTRL] Dubious Reports of U.S. Concentration Camps
-Caveat Lector- I believe you. My point in what I posted was to say that such camps may in fact exist BUT that anything people see is not going to be such camps in actuality. The camps if they exist would not be observable and would not be in any area where they could be scrutinized. Such a thing would have to be hidden very well, as such reports of same are probably all bogus. On Wed, 11 July 2001, Bill Howard wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/10/01 8:47:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Though I don't doubt they exist somewhere in some capacity. Several years ago I went out checked on three camps in my area. They didn't exist. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Dubious Reports of U.S. Concentration Camps
-Caveat Lector- I really fail to see why these camps are still making their way around the conspiracy culture. It seems to me that something of that magnitude would be kept strictly covert and would not expect to see any evidence of them. When you see something it probably is something else. Though I don't doubt they exist somewhere in some capacity. On Tue, 10 July 2001, Michael Pugliese wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://groups.google.com/groups?q=USCMike1%40aol.com www.google.com/search?hl=ensafe=off[EMAIL PROTECTED]btnG=Google+S earch From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dubious Reports of U.S. Concentration Camps Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia (This is the only article in this thread) Date: 1999/05/03 (sent to USCMike1's 31,085+ readers - please repost to your own mailing lists) Dear Citizens, Patriots, Veterans, et al.: Thanks to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for expressing his doubts about the Clinton's Civilian Concentration Camps. Please read my response to him and his post immediately below my response. USCMike1 Dear Steven: Thank you for your response and comments. It is literally impossible for me to personally verify all 300+ or 700+ s. And even when some one does in fact find one they derrogatorily report that there is NO activity there and no sign of civilian prisoners there. So even with proof people still refuse to believe. They keep forgetting that these s are being setup, planned, prepared, lying in wait, or being merely designated for later use. Guess we will have to just wait until those on the GREEN list are picked up and shoved into them. Then what good does it do to issue any warning ahead of time? Probably these very same people will still deny their existence by saying Well, you can't prove these are s just because the feds put me into one under legal court procedings, but for a different reason than what you say they are for. If people can't heed an honest warning then too bad. There are none so blind as those who will not see. None so ignorant as those who will not understand. None so asleep as those who will not wake up. USCMike1 Subj: Dubious Reports of U.S. Concentration Camps Date: 4/26/99 9:18:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: A HREF=mailto:Steven1997;Steven1997/A To: A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A CC: A HREF=mailto:RBerbill;RBerbill/A, A HREF=mailto:USCMike1;USCMike1 /A Hi David: I am also very skeptical of these reports. We are old neighbors: Northbrook, right on the border of Wheeling. My brother, Bill is an exec with a Northbrook-based radio station -- even has his own radio show (see Rebel Radio on the Internet). If you get any solid proof of any concentration camps which are being planned for innocent Americans, just let me know and I will see if he wants to run a story on the air ... OK. I will also copy Bill on this e-mail. Steven + Date: 4/26/99 8:22:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, ladies and gentlemen, it is starting now. [EMAIL PROTECTED] claims he has verified that one of the FEMA Relocation Centers which I refer to as Clinton's Civilian Concentration Camps - will be used to incarcerate innocent civilians - although this is probably just a trial run. There are claimed to be at least 300+ camps and possibly even up to 700+ camps nationwide. The feds just want to get us used to the idea of civilians being placed in these camps, then after the first shock, to be readily forgotten so we can go back to our mindless daily existences. Then as we are individually carted off into these 's it will just be another fact of life that we were so meticulously prepared for. OBTW, this is for Wolfs1776 - as far as I know, there is ONLY ONE [EMAIL PROTECTED] by the name of Michael Johnson and that is me and there should be NO other people who are parading around as USCMike1. I don't know where Wolfs1776 ever got that idea, unless there is someone impersonating me trying to discredit me. Thanks again, folks for listening Please read Wolfs1776 post below for the story on innocent civilians to be incarcerated in one of Clinton's Civilian Concentrations Camps. USCMike1 In a message dated 4/26/99 1:11:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, WoLfS1776 writes: Date: 4/26/99 1:11:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: A HREF=mailto:WoLfS1776;WoLfS1776/A To: A HREF=mailto:USCMike1;USCMike1/A In a message dated 99-04-24 13:27:58 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, I said that when I learned that there *are* concentration camps and that people *were* to be herded into them. I would go on the air and publicly acknowledge the fact. Well, USCMike1 (however-many people are actually masquerading as someone named Michael Johnson) once referred me to a web-site showing photos of a POW camp on Fort
Re: [CTRL] Chappaquiddick - July 1969: Ted Kennedy Was Framed By The CIA!!!
-Caveat Lector- Sounds like a very credible scenario that I have heard the gyst of before. It seems to be the only way that he could have been done away with without too much attention being drawn to all the deaths. Ruin his political career and make him a no show in the president's race. I'm no fan of Ted, but it sure seems to me that there is a lot fishy about the whole Chappaquiddick thing. On Tue, 10 July 2001, Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- From the transcript of the Fourth Reich in America conference, held in SF in '88, organized by yours truly and friends: Audience Member: Can you say just a few words about the Chappaquiddick incident? John Judge: Yes. Ted Kennedy was not in the car. Hard evidence clearly shows that the car went off the ramp at a tremendously high rate of speed. And the door on Kennedy's side was crushed shut. It was still locked. I don't think he'd bother to lock it on the way out under water. The window was still rolled up. He had no way to get out of the car. He had no wet clothes, in the hotel room. That was the testimony of the maid who cleaned up. He was seen on the island in a good mood that morning. I talked to people who said the place was crawling with Committee to Re-Elect the President people. Tom Valaszcwitz, in his testimony, said that he went up to the island several days before, with fake press credentials, to ask embarrassing questions of Ted. About what? Several days before? And he doesn't show up at any of the press conferences. In the Watergate testimony, there is reference to Operation Sand Wedge, and ten thousand dollars given to Valaszcwitz that summer, by Caulfield. And they never ask, What is Sand Wedge? I think it's putting the Oldsmobile in the sand. It was meant to take out Ted Kennedy's election chances. But I think they knew, that if they had yet another lone assassin, for the third Kennedy, that would be the end of the string, in terms of the public credibility. So instead they set him up, in, I think, a very clever way. They drugged him at the party. Slipped a mickey into the drink. He left with Mary Jo Koepechne. Now, they portray her as just this sort of little nobody, a secretary, who happened to be in the car, or maybe Ted was having an affair with her. She came from a group of political secretaries known as the Boiler Room Girls. Some of them are still in top positions in the media and other places. And they were traveling in the political circles, and working for different people. Mary Jo worked for Sen. George Smathers, Bebe Rebozo's financial and personal friend down there, who was actually an enemy of the Kennedy's. There was this famous scene where Smathers attempted to get John Kennedy to kill Castro, to continue the assassination attempts, and Kennedy broke a plate on the table at this dinner. It's kind of famous, it's in most of the Kennedy books, Thousand Days, and other places. And he said, We're not going to have any more of that talk. And, Smathers, you know, was certainly more in the Nixon camp, with Rebozo, and the filthy money, Dade county, Bob Maheu (who went out and got the Mafia assassins involved originally, that helped to kill Kennedy), and that crowd. So, she came from there, and the two secretaries who worked with her at the time, and she roomed with one of them, were also closely involved. Carol Tyler, who she roomed with, disappeared in a plane crash. She had been Bobby Baker's secretary. You remember this big scandal during the Johnson administration, about Bobby Baker and the wheeling and dealing? And Baker had been part of an international gambling ring, between Cuba and the United States, that was called the Syndicate. It wasn't the whole national crime syndicate, but it was a little Havana, Cuba bunch. Lansky's had ties with it, McClaney and others. People that had the arms at Lake Pontchartraine in New Orleans, Cubans that were tied with Oswald, people around the Kennedy assassination. In Torbitt's document, Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal, that group, Syndicate, is one of the 5 groups named, because it was the main one that funnelled money on Kennedy's head from the mob out of Florida and up through Chicago, and then into Dallas. And it's in Flammonde's book, Kennedy Conspiracy, and other places. So, the other secretary working with Mary Jo at the time, had been the personal secretary to Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club. And remember, Bobby Baker called his place in Ocean City the Carousel Club. His motel up there, you know. So, she didn't come from nowhere. She was also the last person to see the physical evidence in the Robert Kennedy file before it was locked up, down in Los Angeles. She knew quite a deal. I think she was brought out thinking that she was setting Ted up to be killed. And at the last moment they pulled the switch, dragged him, dead drunk, and drugged, back to the hotel room, put him to bed. Stabbed
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Psychiatric agenda 'set by drug firms'
-Caveat Lector- All relationships that have a monetary benefit for the doctors are, in my opinion, bad for the public because it sets up a system whereby the treatment is pushed which would benefit the prescriber. I think it should be illegal. On Tue, 10 July 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] CIA Cash Funded Drug Trade
-Caveat Lector- Closer to the mark as to the true state of affairs in the whole drug issue. When we see just how involved the intelligence agencies in this country are in the trafficking and sale of drugs it will reveal the extent to which the depravity and lopsidedness of those in positions of power has really extended. On Mon, 09 July 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffFONT SIZE=2 FAMILY=FIXED FACE=Courier New LANG=0A HREF=http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/world.cfm?id=CIA08071feed=N;http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/world.cfm?id=CIA08071amp;feed=N/A BR BR BR BRCIA cash funded drugs trade BR BRBy Nick Peters in Washington BR BR BRWHILE Peru's disgraced former spymaster Vladimiro Montesinos awaits trial in BRa maximum security jail in Lima, it has emerged that millions of dollars BRdonated by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency not only helped him BRamass a small personal fortune, but was also responsible for one of the most BRembarrassing espionage debacles of recent years. BR BRSkimming off money that the CIA intended for use in Peru's anti-drug BRtrafficking efforts, Montesinos set up a major arms deal in the Middle East BRthat funnelled 10,000 AK47 rifles to left-wing FARC guerrillas in Colombia, BRthereby fomenting the very uprising that America has pledged $1.3bn to stamp BRout. BR BRFARC has transformed itself from a Marxist insurgency group trying to seize BRpower in Colombia into a quasi-drug cartel, making millions from the drug BRsmugglers who operate under their protection. BR BRBill Clinton's administration decided it was worth investing spectacular BRamounts of cash to help the Colombian government stamp out the guerrillas and BRthus leave the smugglers unprotected. BR BRAt first Vladimiro Montesinos looked as if he could be a significant asset in BRthe US fight against both Communism and the drugs trade. In the mid-1970s, BRwhile an officer in the Peruvian army, he came to the US to show the CIA BRevidence of Soviet arms deals with Peru. It was enough to get him on the BRagency's payroll. BR BRMontesinos rose to become spymaster for the controversial former president of BRPeru, Albert Fujimori, himself now being sought on suspicion of human rights BRviolations. BR BRThroughout the 1990s the flow of money became a torrent, the stated intention BRbeing to help Peru fight the trans-Andean drug trade. BR BRBut after years of little or no oversight over how the cash was spent, BRMontesinos started turning the money to his own ends. He was, according to BRprosecutors, also guilty of flagrant human rights violations against BRpolitical opponents, including murder. BR BRThe CIA was well aware of his actions but did little to rein Montesinos in. BRBut the CIA had not banked on Montesinos' double-dealing. According to BRPeruvian prosecutors he was also taking protection money from drug BRtraffickers, which joined a stream of corrupt cash that amassed him a fortune BRclose to $264m. BR BRThe CIA decided to call a halt when the FARC arms deal demonstrated BRconclusively that he had gone too far. BR BRMontesinos became a fugitive in October 2000 and was captured at the end of BRlast month by Venezuelan agents in Caracas. BR BRToday Montesinos is on hunger strike in protest against being held in the BRsame jail, one he actually designed, as many of his former enemies. BR BRIf found guilty, the ex-spymaster faces the rest of his life in prison. BR BRThat at least would ease the CIA's embarrassment. BR BRBut in the US, the CIA's involvement in the Montesinos case has raised barely BRa ripple of comment. BR BR BR/FONT/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] The God That Sucked
-Caveat Lector- Gald you liked it! It took a while to come up with just the right words. LOL On Sun, 08 July 2001, Samantha L. wrote: -Caveat Lector- Wow, you just summed up my entire life's conclusions in one paragraph! Samantha In a message dated 7/7/01 7:47:15 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Excellent post!!! Old money, inherited wealth, and upper class Industrialists, as well as the new elite of Technocrats have never had it so good. AND to top it off now they have a man like O'neil in Treasury who wants that no businesses should pay tax and the common people should be made to work and be more willing to foot the bill to keep it nice for the new fat cats and get nothing for all the money they are forced to give to the government in order to enforce the police state which buries them further into poverty and disdain. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The God That Sucked
-Caveat Lector- Excellent post!!! Old money, inherited wealth, and upper class Industrialists, as well as the new elite of Technocrats have never had it so good. AND to top it off now they have a man like O'neil in Treasury who wants that no businesses should pay tax and the common people should be made to work and be more willing to foot the bill to keep it nice for the new fat cats and get nothing for all the money they are forced to give to the government in order to enforce the police state which buries them further into poverty and disdain. On Fri, 06 July 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote: -Caveat Lector- The God That Sucked Thomas Frank Despite this, many economists still think that electricity deregulation will work. A product is a product, they say, and competition always works better than state control. I believe in that premise as a matter of religious faith, said Philip J. Romero, dean of the business school at the University of Oregon and one of the architects of California's deregulation plan. --New York Times, February 4, 2001 Time was, the only place a guy could expound the mumbo jumbo of the free market was in the country club locker room or the pages of Reader's Digest. Spout off about it anywhere else and you'd be taken for a Bircher or some new strain of Jehovah's Witness. After all, in the America of 1968, when the great backlash began, the average citizen, whether housewife or hardhat or salary-man, still had an all-too-vivid recollection of the Depression. Not to mention a fairly clear understanding of what social class was all about. Pushing laissez-faire ideology back then had all the prestige and credibility of hosting a Tupperware party. But thirty-odd years of culture war have changed all that. Mention elites these days and nobody thinks of factory owners or gated-community dwellers. Instead they assume that what you're mad as hell about is the liberal media, or the pro-criminal judiciary, or the tenured radicals, or the know-it-all bureaucrats. For the guys down at the country club all these inverted forms of class war worked spectacularly well. This is not to say that the right-wing culture warriors ever outsmarted the liberal college professors or shut down the Hollywood studios or repealed rock 'n' roll. Shout though they might, they never quite got cultural history to stop. But what they did win was far more important: political power, a free hand to turn back the clock on such non-glamorous issues as welfare, taxes, OSHA, even the bankruptcy laws, for chrissake. Assuring their millionaire clients that culture war got the deregulatory job done, they simply averted their eyes as bizarre backlash variants flowered in the burned-over districts of conservatism: Posses Comitatus, backyard Confederacies mounting mini-secessions, crusades against Darwin. For most of the duration of the thirty-year backlash, the free-market faiths of the economists and the bosses were kept discreetly in the background. To be sure, market worship was always the established church in the halls of Republican power, but in public the chant was usually States' Rights, or Down with Big Gummint, or Watch out for Commies, or Speak English Goddammit. All Power to the Markets has never been too persuasive as a rallying cry. So confidently did the right proceed from triumph to triumph, though, that eventually they forgot this. Inspired by a generous bull market and puffed up by a sense of historical righteousness so cocksure that it might have been lifted from The God That Failed, that old book in which ex-Communists disavowed their former convictions, the right evidently decided in the Nineties that the time had come to tell the world about the wonders of the market. Dinesh D'Souza, pedagogical product of the Jesuits, these days can be found swinging the censer for Mammon and thrilling to the mayhem his ruthless god of the market visits on the undeserving poor. George Gilder, erstwhile elder of the Christian right, is now the Thirty-Third Degree Poobah in the Temple of Telecosm, where he channels the libertarian commandments of his digital Juggernaut in the language of the angels. A host of awesome myths attest to the power of this new god. Markets must rule, some right-wing prophets tell us, because of globalization, because the moral weight of the entire world somehow demands it. Others bear tidings of a New Economy, a spontaneous recombination of the DNA of social life according to which, again, markets simply must rule. The papers fill with rapturous talk of historical corners turned, of old structures abandoned, of endless booms and weightless work. The new god makes great demands on us, and its demands must be appeased. None can be shielded from its will. The welfare of AFDC mothers must be entrusted unhesitatingly to its mercies.
Re: [CTRL] DynCorp's Drug Problem
-Caveat Lector- No doubt true in all the details but interestingly this document comes out now. It seems that someone is going to be thrown to the wolves and could it be DynCorp? Certainly NOT the real money makers in the drug war US government and old money in this country. On Thu, 05 July 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=specials=vest20010703;http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=specialamp;s=vest20010703/A BR BR BR BRDynCorp's Drug Problem BR BRby Jason Vest BR BRCould the State Department's antidrug contractors in South America possibly BRbe dabbling in narcotics trafficking? A key part of the US's $1.3 billion BRcontribution to Plan Colombia--the scheme that will supposedly expedite the BRend of Colombia's civil war--calls for the use of private contractors (as BRopposed to actual US military assets) to fly airborne missions against both BRthe fields that grow coca and poppy and the labs that process them. While BRsome contractors, like Aviation Development Corporation of Montgomery, BRAlabama, fly surveillance missions for the CIA, those that fly on retainer BRfor other US government agencies are a bit more expansive in their missions. BR BRConsulting giant DynCorp's private pilots in the Andes fly everything from BRfixed-wing fumigation runs to helicopter-borne interdiction missions ferrying BRtroops into hot spots. If you take DynCorp's word for it, any notion of the BRorganization's being involved in drug trafficking is ludicrous. Whether or BRnot you believe this, we are a very ethical company, said a senior DynCorp BRofficial, who insisted on being quoted off the record. We take steps to make BRsure the people we hire are ethical. BR BRYet the existence of a document that The Nation recently obtained (under the BRFreedom of Information Act) from the Drug Enforcement BRAdministration--combined with the unwillingness of virtually any US or BRColombian government agency to elaborate on the document--has some in BRWashington and elsewhere wondering if, like virtually every other entity BRcharged with fighting the drug war, DynCorp might have a bad apple or two in BRits barrel. According to a monthly DEA intelligence report from last year, BRofficers of Colombia's National Police force intercepted and opened, on May BR12, 2000, a US-bound Federal Express package at Bogota's El Dorado BRInternational Airport. The parcel contained two (2) small bottles of a thick BRliquid that had the same consistency as motor oil. The communiqué goes on BRto report that the liquid substance tested positive for heroin and that the BRalleged heroin laced liquid weighed approximately 250 grams. (Freebase BRheroin, it bears noting, is soluble in motor oil, and can therefore be BRextracted without much trouble.) BR BRBut perhaps the most intriguing piece of information in the DEA document is BRthe individual to whom it reports that the package belonged: an unnamed BRemployee of DynCorp, who was sending the parcel to the company's Andean BRoperations headquarters at Patrick Air Force Base, Florida. More interesting BRstill is the reluctance of DynCorp and the government to provide substantial BRdetails in support of their contention that this situation isn't really what BRit seems. BR BRAccording to DynCorp spokeswoman Janet Wineriter,the viscous liquid that the BRColombians tested was not, in fact, laced with heroin; it was simply oil BRsamples of major aircraft components that DynCorp technicians are required BRto take and send to the US on a periodic basis. Explaining that the drug BRtest was conducted with apparently faulty equipment that produced an BRincorrect reading, Wineriter could not specify what testing procedures or BRequipment were used. She identified her source for the explanation as BRCharlene A. Wheeless, DynCorp's Vice President for Corporate Communications. BR BRUnable to cite any source other than Wheeless (I'm assuming when someone BRpasses along this information that it's accurate), Wineriter told The Nation BRto call the Colombian National Police and the State Department for further BRdetails. The State Department liaison with DynCorp did not return phone BRcalls, and when the Colombian National Police in Bogota were contacted, an BRofficial informed The Nation that the CNP would not comment on the matter, BRreferring all queries to the DEA. A DEA spokesman in Washington said the BRmatter was not a DEA case, and referred calls to the US Embassy in Bogota. BR BRIt took six days for the embassy to produce a terse, 143-word response to The BRNation's queries--a response that echoed, but did not mirror, DynCorp's BRaccount. The embassy did confirm that the vials of oil are routinely shipped BRto DynCorp facilities at Patrick AFB for analysis related to proper BRmaintenance of aircraft, and confirmed that several aircraft motor oil
Re: [CTRL] Newly Released Docs Confirm Trotsky Recieved Help
-Caveat Lector- It seems to me perfectly fitting that intelligence agencies in France and England would have had their hands all over this one. It remains to be seen just how involved other governments were with the revolution in Russia, and what kind of help was given or witheld at times. On Thu, 05 July 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,516859,00.html;http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,516859,00.html/A BR BR BR BRMI5 detained Trotsky on way to revolution BR BRPublic records: Russian was arrested on British orders in 1917 on a boat in BRCanada but released after intervention by MI6 BR BRRichard Norton-Taylor BRThursday July 5, 2001 BRThe Guardian BR BR BRLeon Trotsky, the creator of the Red Army, was detained on the orders of MI5 BRin a move which could have prevented him from playing any part in the Russian BRrevolution and its aftermath, reveal hitherto secret documents released BRtoday. BR BRThe papers show that had it not been for the intervention of an officer of BRthe Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, - who believed the evidence against him BRwas provided by an agent provocateur - the leading revolutionary might have BRhad no place in history. BR BRPapers made available at the Public Record Office show how MI5, and the BRFrench and Spanish security services, monitored Trotsky's movement in the BRmonths leading to the revolution in February 1917 which overthrew the Tsarist BRregime. BR BRThe previous autumn Trotsky was expelled from France after his Paris paper, BRNashe Slovo (Our Word) was suppressed on the grounds it was subversive and BRanti-war. He set off for Madrid, surrounded by spies who, he noted, BRregarded him as as a dangerous terrorist agitator. BR BRIn Madrid he was immediately arrested, jailed, and taken to Cadiz where he BRwas told he was going to be put on a boat to Havana. But after angry BRprotests, Trotsky was allowed to remain a few more days and sail, instead, to BRNew York. BR BRTrotsky explained his predic-ament in a postcard to a Russian contact in BRLondon, Georgy Tchitchrine. Dear Comrade, he wrote, I press your hand BRwarmly... I hope that we may meet once again in the ranks of fighters for the BRcommon cause. Yours, Trotsky. BR BRThe card never reached its destination.. It was intercepted by MI5. BR BRMI5 continued to monitor Trotsky's activities. In a telegram from New York to BRLondon, dated March 22, 1917, an MI5 agent warned: An important movement has BRbeen started here among Socialists, with a view to getting back Revolutionary BRSocialists into Russia ... with [the] object of establishing a Republic and BRinitiating Peace movement; also of promoting Socialistic Revolutions in other BRcountries, including the United States. BR BRThe main leader, the tele-gram noted, is Trotsky, who was planning to BRleave the US for Russia. A few days later, the MI5 agent dispatched a BRmess-age to London saying Trotsky had set sail with $10,000 subscribed by BRSocialists and Germans on the way to Petrograd, now St Petersburg. BR BRThe agent ordered the ship to be detained when it stopped at Halifax in BRCanada. Trotsky was arrested with five Russian comrades. There he could have BRremained, had it not been for the intervention of the Secret Intelligence BRService, MI6. BR BRClaude Dansey, an MI6 officer, had also just landed at Halifax. I told BRCaptain Malkins, the Naval Control Officer, that I believed the new Russian BRgovernment would at once ask for Trotsky's release, and that we should be BRunable to hold him, and that, unless they were very certain of the source of BRinformation against him it would be much better to let him go before he got BRangry, he noted. BR BRDansey was told by the MI6 station chief in New York, William Wiseman, that BRthe information against Trotsky had come from a Russian agent in whom he had BRgreat confidence. BR BRHowever, Dansey reported: I then asked him a few questions about the man, BRand from what I gathered, there is a strong possibility that he was an agent BRprovocateur, used by the old Russian Secret Police. I told Wiseman he had BRbetter be discharged at once, and he said that he was going to do so. BR BRWithin four weeks of his arrest, to MI5's chagrin, Trotsky and his fellow BRrevolutionaries boarded another ship heading for Russia. BR BRDocuments released today show MI5 continued its campaign right up the BRBolsheviks' October Revolution of 1917. Until such men as Trotsky are BRfinally convicted, anti-war agitation will be carried on in the factories of BRPetrograd, Moscow...and Leninite doctrines will continue to be promulgated BRamong the simple-minded peasantry, it warned. BR BRAn MI5 file on Eamonn de Valera, the Irish nationalist leader, is also BRreleased today though many pages have been withheld. BR BRMarked
Re: [CTRL] Mass Shooting In Colorado
-Caveat Lector- Another one for the mind control files. One wonders what LEGAL drugs were fuelling his aberrant mental thoughts? What kind of chemical cocktail was he on? On Thu, 05 July 2001, M. F. Abernathy wrote: -Caveat Lector- The gunman is described as suffering from 'schizophrenia'-- was that *really* his problem? --- Stagner had been ranting about hellfire and damnation at a liquor store near the scene of the shootings, said owner Linda Trujillo. She said Stagner bought a mini-bottle of whiskey and a Gatorade but she ran him off when he started yelling at passers-by. snip The Denver Post, citing an unidentified source, reported that Stagner had recently been treated for schizophrenia and may have stopped taking his medication === Man accused of killing 3 gave warning, friend says The Associated Press RIFLE, Colo. (July 5, 2001 1:01 p.m. EDT) - The man accused of killing three people and wounding four in a rampage through an RV park warned a friend he planned to shoot some people and then himself, according to the friend, who says he dismissed it as a joke. Hours before the shooting Tuesday night, Mike Stagner, 42, made the threat casually to bartender Ted Diaz Jr. at The Sports Corner bar. Diaz said he had known Stagner to make suicidal threats. I blew it off, he told the Rocky Mountain News. He was always either going to jump off a bridge or shoot himself, but this morning I was shocked when I found out it was him. Stagner, who has a long criminal record, was arrested Tuesday night and held on three counts of first-degree murder and four counts of attempted first-degree murder. Police were investigating whether the shootings were race-related. Stagner is white and the victims were believed to be Latino. Earlier Tuesday, Stagner had been ranting about hellfire and damnation at a liquor store near the scene of the shootings, said owner Linda Trujillo. She said Stagner bought a mini-bottle of whiskey and a Gatorade but she ran him off when he started yelling at passers-by. The Denver Post, citing an unidentified source, reported that Stagner had recently been treated for schizophrenia and may have stopped taking his medication. The rampage began when Juan Hernandez-Carillo was shot and killed as he talked on a pay phone outside City Market. Police said Stagner then walked across the parking lot toward the trailer park, shooting a 19-year-old Mexican immigrant, identified by witnesses as Anjelica Toscono. Toscono was in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the head. When Stagner reached the trailer park, he fatally shot two men sitting outside a small mobile home and drinking beer, authorities said. Their names were not immediately released. The gunman walked all the way through the trailer park before shooting and wounding three more men, two in their car and one outside his home, investigators said. Stagner then walked back out through the park, stopping only to reload, police said. As residents fled, Stagner crossed back to the supermarket parking lot, where police arrested him, city manager Selby Myers said. Members of Hernandez-Carillo's family said he had come to Rifle from Mexico and had been working for a plant nursery. Relatives said they were trying to get enough money to send his body back to Mexico to be buried. He was everybody's friend, daughter Maria Dolores Hernandez said. His brother, Guadalupe Hernandez, said he didn't think the shootings were racially motivated. I think he's crazy, he said. Over the last 20 years, Stagner has been arrested on numerous charges including burglary, assault, drug possession and drunken driving. MARtin F. ABErnathy [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]- 7/5/01 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe
Re: [CTRL] Confession to Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK
-Caveat Lector- Thornley is another one of those untidy loose ends surrounding the assassination of JFK. Another example of the black hole of Twilight Zone stuff which permeates the whole charade. On Thu, 05 July 2001, Dale Stonehouse wrote: This is an online book by Kerry Thornley http://www.sondralondon.com/xthornley/index.html Confession to Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK.url Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Hidden truths of Lake Vostok excite scientists and ranters
-Caveat Lector- Glad to see there is at least one fan of the Immortal Master HPL still on the list!!! Incidentally, if hardy life, capable of withstanding the rigors of space or hostile environments IS found there would it not be a vindication of HPL and the weird tales he wrote so well? I find so much of past horror and SF are quite prescient about coming future events and am amazed that so much that has been written about has turned out to be true. I have a theory about that, in which the avant garde writers, poets, artists, etc. are manipulated at times to write of things in order to prepare the communal psyche for the eventual discovery of unusual and/or unnatural things. I have no proof of such a manipulation nor of who or what is doing the manipulation but it is interesting speculation in light of the phenomenon. Perhaps something on the order of PK Dick's orbitting artificial intelligence system, or J Vallee's theory of a cybernetic control system which exerts its influence subtley into the mainstream culture and communal thought. Just idle speculation. But interesting. On Fri, 29 June 2001, Bill Howard wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 6/28/01 8:20:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps but I would have thought them long run over and destroyed by the Elder Things and the Shoggoths come back from the Mountains of Madness! Good Point! A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Seven Daily Posts to CTRL
-Caveat Lector- Let's take a moment to look at this. Here on this list one can post about a multitude of subjects. If you post you may be called on it, if you wish to defend your position then expect to be asked to put up some facts to support your argument. If you are unwilling to deal with it or can't or won't do so, then think twice before diving in. OR you can just let the calls for show me proof just fly on by and let your post speak for itself, but fighting over what is fact and what is not is counterproductive. On Thu, 28 June 2001, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Aleisha Saba wrote: The matches are in a security box - they are white with red writing saying Swiped from Harry Truman..I have a huge portrait of Truman autograhed to my mother, which my one sister got her. I do not have a scanner and in my possession here in my home, I do still have the lighter and my picture John Glenn autographed and so did Annie for me, and a personally autographed picture from Teedy Kennedy and picture of RFK not autographed given to me at same time, And how many ex-teenyboppers have autographed pictures of Frank Sinatra or Elvis or Paul McCartney or David Cassidy or George Michael? It doesn't mean that they ever actually MET these celebrities, it just means they either joined a fan club or wrote a letter to the celebrity. SOP is to have someone on the clerical staff handle this type of mail, and SOP is to send a canned letter back thanking the fan for writing and including an 'autographed' picture. I could write to the White House today and ask for an autographed picture of Bush, and I'd get one; would you then accept that as 'proof' that I was a close friend of the Bush family? I do not have to prove anything this is a conspiracy theory list... Yes, it is a list that discusses theory...that does not mean that people claiming certain credentials aren't expected to provide some sort of proof for their claims. Want a picture of what I have here I imagine I could send a picture through the mail for the portraint of Truman is much too large to run through machine - it is his official portrait. Bought at what auction? Had beautiful portrait of John F. and Jackie Kennedy in color - a very special portrait Which thousands of other people also got when they wrote to the White House from 1961 to 1963... June === Alternative Kite Radio (basic) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be
Re: [CTRL] Hidden truths of Lake Vostok excite scientists and ranters
-Caveat Lector- Perhaps but I would have thought them long run over and destroyed by the Elder Things and the Shoggoths come back from the Mountains of Madness! On Wed, 27 June 2001, Mark McHugh wrote: -Caveat Lector- Bill Howard wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 6/26/01 8:28:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about the secret Nazi bases!!! Aren't we forgetting them!!!??? YES! Was the drilling stopped by the eco-terrorists so the world won't find the secret Nazi base beneath the ice cap? BHoward I thought the Nazi antarctic base was controlled by the Deros. I'm waiting to see them exit through the polar holes. -- ´´ Mark McHugh A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Seven Daily Posts to CTRL
-Caveat Lector- Let us not also get personal in our use of this list. When one disagrees with the statement presented one attacks the statement not the person making it. That is civility. There is no need to go there. On Thu, 28 June 2001, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Steve wrote: Prove just one thing for us, Saba. Send us a scan of your matches from Truman's plane and the cigarette lighter with the Presidential Seal, and I will forever stop characterizing you privately as 'our favorite Internet psychotic.' Then I just might start believing you are a psyop agent. You say you don't have access to a scanner? ;-) And one has to wonder why, for someone who has supposedly sojourned over the years with such movers-and-shakers, and who claims one's near siblings continue do so ...that she seems to have nothing else to do but spend all day at her computer spewing out her insane steam-of-consciousness postings... Seems to be a mighty lonely existence for someone who claims to have been so close to such powerful people June === Alternative Kite Radio (basic) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com === A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- It is not a blanket statement. It is meant to refer to scientists who hold old line theories (not necessarily invalid or untrue ones, lets get that straight), like evolution, the inhabitants of early America, the origin of the Sphinx, etc. Who routinely keep research out of peer reviewed publications, ignore or ridicule alternate theories that are put forward by reputable scientists, NOT because the theories are stupid or invalid, or UNscientific but because they hold the view that their theory is correct and all others MUST therefore be wrong, and thus should be ignored. On Thu, 28 June 2001, Steve Suranie wrote: -Caveat Lector- Perhaps it would be good if you offered a specific example instead of blanketing all scientist in this fashion. I missed the beginning of this thread so I'm not sure if you are talking about a specific incident or just scientist in general. -- From: tenebroust Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists -Caveat Lector- That is precisely why the analogy works becuase established science has a religious structure and as such does not take any guff from those who wish to go outside of its constraints. On Wed, 27 June 2001, Foxter wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4134.600 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#c8e0d8 DIVOn Tue, 26 Jun 2001, tenebroust wrote:BRgt;The short answer is that they are ignorant and very when theyBRgt;deliberately do not look at evidence and cover up or ridicule theoriesBRgt;proposed that do not fit into their well established theories (read:BRgt;FACTS).BRBRThe problem is that Modern Science has become a new religion, repleteBRwith its own rules and dogma...and anyone deviating from the acceptedBRdogma is branded a heretic and 'excommunicated'...BRBRBRJuneBRBR/DIV DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2And the leader of this new religion is the Dollar/ECU/Yen, thenbsp;motivation Greed./FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2That explains why ordinarily kind men and women abandonnbsp;common sense and compassion./FONT/DIV/BODY/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- The short answer is that they are ignorant and very when they deliberately do not look at evidence and cover up or ridicule theories proposed that do not fit into their well established theories (read: FACTS). On Tue, 26 June 2001, Andrew Hennessey wrote: -Caveat Lector- yep lets feel superior about the ordinary joe six pack lay person - thenlets have a critical look at our superior intellect and where exactly that has gotten the human race over the last century. Did you know that Lord kelvin wrote a treatise on aether and gravitation which he presented to the royal society in 1901 and in that he not only puts forward the theory of the gaseous turbulence of the aether but of the basic principles of Chaos Theory - and by doing so - he had advanced Cosmology by a hundred years - see www.santafe.edu but look where we are now - Einstein's disclaimer on aether was the michelson morley experiment - I mean is it logical that if we examine the inside of something the size of a can of beans for aether and not find any that we can then project that classically irrationally result as an absolute a priori on INFINITY ?? Einstein's fixed C and no ether also hit the skids in 1920 with Olbers paradox - has anybody ever heard of it - if not - why not - it suggests that its a paradox that the sky isn't white at night - because all the photons in the cosmos should have been here by now - but something - some paradox has held them up [not ether say the ignorant scientists] but something - its a paradox - blah blah By the rules of the scientific game written by karl Popper in his Conjectures and Refutations he suggests that if a theory is not falsifiable it is redundant - that it is not rational to keeep going back to and remodifying a theroy - it should be discarded - but ignorant 'scientists' keep doing that with the Big bang - even though there is a ribbon of galaxies called the great wall with matter far older than the big bang theory allows for - another lemon that should be trashed. Schifflers Horns is a paradox in mathematical topology - in this LINEAR cosmos it keeps showing up fractal. Well Schifflers horns is the mathematical PROOF that the Universe is a chaos event and non-linear. And superstring theory and all the spin off garbage - have you ever in your life heard of a more bizarre pile of crap ?? its another example of the constant modification of a theory that should have been scrapped decades ago. Everytime the 'scientists' hit a snag - they just add in another mathematical dimension and another layer of absurd abstraction. It goes completely against the cornertsone rationality of popper and the simple is best Occams Razor. I'm NOT saying that the empirical DATA on physics is bad - just the MODEL of superstrings that it is deployed on is Crass. and we look at all the 'scientists' working for the military industrial complex - and some people feel superior over the laymen ??? scientists with worthless doctorates in physics and a washed out paradigm FULL of PARADOXES and un-unified Physics - and these 'scientists' advise governments that there is No Global Warming [thatcher/carbon tax], that it is ok to lower the pasteurisation temperatures of meat processing to make the processes yield more profit. that microwaves and radioactivity do not build up damage - that food stuffs containing harmful chemicals are ok and those 'scientists' feel superior ?? what a laugh no the common man doesn't have a professorship in STUPIDITY he does have COMMON SENSE - and he/she knows that 'Science' is desperately trying to paper over the Cracks ... but its more obvious than that - the greatest scientific achievement in recent years was not some brilliant flawed genius like einstein or tesla or kelvin with sweeping new paradigms - it was rows and rows of big big machines doing the sorting for the human genome project - if you can give the monkeys enough typewriters - they will get their Nobel. andrew hennessey A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A
Re: [CTRL] Bob Kerry, CIA War Crimes, And The Need For A War Crimes Trial
-Caveat Lector- Of course that will be the only option left to the people at some point. Perhaps that is what all of this is driving towards. Force the people to become terrorists against their own government to overthrow the terrorists in power so they can have Marshal Law and do away with all the malcontents. On Mon, 25 June 2001, Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- They will continue to do so until they are hung by their necks from every lamp post on Pennsylvania Avenue. The courts wont do it, so we'll just have to hope for a lynch mob. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER =CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ===Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A ===To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- You hit on an excellent point and that is that we don't have to agree but the end result should be a fair representation of the facts and alternative theories should be considered, not shunted aside and ridiculed. Don't label yourself impartial unless you truly are. On Wed, 27 June 2001, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1html head meta name=GENERATOR content=IncrediMail 1.0 /head BODY background= bgColor=#ff style=BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 1px scroll=yes ORGYPOS=0 TABLE border=0 cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 id=INCREDIMAINTABLE width=95% TR TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION width=100% style=FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px DIV id=receivestrings DIV dir=ltr style=FONT-SIZE: 11pt iBFrom:/B/I A href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];Steve Suranie/A/DIV/DIV Pgt;Of course this could be twisted the other way around, any scientist notBRgt;agreeing with your view can be labeled ignorant and said to prescribe to theBRgt;new religion and its rules and dogma...BRBRI don't care whose views they 'agree' with, including my own.../P Pnbsp;/P PWhat I DO care about is that anyone calling themselves a scientist go thru the scientific process to prove or disprove any theory or point.nbsp; Too many of them react with a kneejerk response to anything considered avant-garde or 'kooky', and don't examine the evidence let alone try to recreate the thing they condemn outright without investigating./P Pnbsp;/P DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVJune/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVCheck out Alternative Kite Radio -- A href=http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com;http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com/A/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV DIVnbsp;/DIV Pnbsp;/P/TD /TR TR TD id=INCREDIFOOTER width=100% TABLE cellPadding=0 cellSpacing=0 width=100% TR TD width=100%/TD TD align=middle id=INCREDISOUND vAlign=bottom/TD TD align=middle id=INCREDIANIM vAlign=bottom/TD /TR /TABLE /TD /TR /TABLESPAN id=IncrediStampSPAN dir=ltrFONT face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif size=2_BRFONT face=Comic Sans MS size=2IIncrediMail/I - BEmail has finally evolved/B - /FONTA href=http://www.incredimail.com/imstampa.html;FONT face=Times New Roman size=3BUClick Here/U/B/FONT/A/SPAN/SPAN/FONT /BODY /html Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Seven Daily Posts to CTRL
-Caveat Lector- The seven posts per day rule is only to make the list more user friendly and not inundate people with hundreds of e-mails per day. As for flaming the best way for one to deal with all fires is to remove the fuel and it won't keep burning. There is no cencorship here. The items mentioned in the disclaimer are there for a reason as anyone who has been here long enough will know. On Wed, 27 June 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 6/27/01 2:46:58 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- Seven posts to CTRL per day is getting really old. What is the problem and why does this list continue to live on AOHell? Even the editor at a certain newspaper in Arkansas has offered to host this list. And Topica and Egroups are totally free and free from censorship (and charges for bandwidth). I host SNETNEWS and IUFO, among other lists, on Topica, and it works great, and there is no limit to posts, a complete archive, and no ads. Sorry for complaining, but I had to wait two days to reply to a stupid flame from Alisha Saba. AOL/TIME WARNER/CNN is a wonderful place for a Conspiracy list. LOL! Steve ANOMALOUS IMAGES The seven post a day limit has nothing to do with aol, but has to do with the size and usability of the list. Nobody has contacted me about hosting the list. Whether as if freedom may be found in heaven or hell, true freedom shall be found within not without. One must not rail against hell but transform such opportunities unto beneficience. MHO. And where are the ads on CTRL? And if a flame is stupid then why does it need any response? Ironic? eh? Om K A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- That is precisely why the analogy works becuase established science has a religious structure and as such does not take any guff from those who wish to go outside of its constraints. On Wed, 27 June 2001, Foxter wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4134.600 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#c8e0d8 DIVOn Tue, 26 Jun 2001, tenebroust wrote:BRgt;The short answer is that they are ignorant and very when theyBRgt;deliberately do not look at evidence and cover up or ridicule theoriesBRgt;proposed that do not fit into their well established theories (read:BRgt;FACTS).BRBRThe problem is that Modern Science has become a new religion, repleteBRwith its own rules and dogma...and anyone deviating from the acceptedBRdogma is branded a heretic and 'excommunicated'...BRBRBRJuneBRBR/DIV DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2And the leader of this new religion is the Dollar/ECU/Yen, thenbsp;motivation Greed./FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2That explains why ordinarily kind men and women abandonnbsp;common sense and compassion./FONT/DIV/BODY/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Bush's Opium Bender
-Caveat Lector- Probably the real truth of this is that there is a lot of money to be made by stateside people in the the trafficking of drugs and that money is being threatened. It is a real catch 22. On Tue, 26 June 2001, Yardbird wrote: -Caveat Lector- Taliban Twists Shrub With Poppy Politics Bush's Opium Bender http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0125/ridgeway.shtml In its dealings with Afghanistan, the Bush administration has inherited a real catch-22. On the one hand, the White House needs to get rid of the terrorist Osama bin Laden, who is sheltered by the ruling Taliban. On the other, it wants to continue the global war on drugs--a campaign in which the internationally shunned Islamic extremists have become an unexpected ally, slapping a ban on growing the poppies that provided 75 percent of the world's opium supply. Now Bush is in the ungainly position of favoring the Northern Alliance, a Russian-backed resistance group that funds its efforts in part by trafficking in narcotics. ''The basic problem is that the U.S. so far has failed disastrously in Afghanistan, and for a decade has had no policy toward Afghanistan other than bin Laden,'' says S. Frederick Starr, chair of the Central Asia--Caucasus Institute at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. ''It is legal under U.S.-led UN sanctions to send arms to the Northern Alliance, which is actively exporting drugs, but illegal to send arms to the Taliban, which has stopped drug production.'' In eradicating poppies, Afghanistan shut down a market with a total production value of $100 billion. The Taliban received relatively little of that money, with annual revenues during the 1990s of $10 million to $75 million, but farmers could still bank on a crop worth five times as much as conventional rice or wheat. Starr argues that if the UN fails to loosen the strictures against Afghanistan, the Taliban may let farmers plant poppies again rather than allow other countries like Pakistan and Myanmar to jump in. The Taliban has no standing with the UN, which has given Afghanistan's seat to the Northern Alliance. So far, the Taliban leaders' biggest role in the world economy has been supplying the raw material for drugs. ''And without Western, U.S., and UN leadership,'' Starr says, ''it will not change.'' Afghanistan's poppy growers are having an especially rough time of it because a drought is compounding the difficulty of switching to other crops. This year, the U.S. allocated $120 million in aid to Afghanistan, including $43 million in food aid during the month of May. Assisting the Afghan people, says Charles Fairbanks, a former deputy assistant secretary of state under Bush and Reagan who now teaches at Johns Hopkins, is the only moral choice. The U.S. helped create the mess there when it sided against Russian invaders in the 1980s, giving the impression we'd be around to help with the consequences, too. Aid now ''is a matter of honor,'' Fairbanks says. ''They fought on the American side and the side of the administration in the last battle of the Cold War, and we just abandoned them. There is something not right about that.'' A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy
Re: [CTRL] Hidden truths of Lake Vostok excite scientists and ranters
-Caveat Lector- What about the secret Nazi bases!!! Aren't we forgetting them!!!??? On Tue, 26 June 2001, c. wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4134.100 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#ff DIVFONT face=Arial size=2A href=http://www.nationalpost.com/;FONT face=Times New Roman size=3http://www.nationalpost.com//FONT/ABRFONT face=Times New Roman size=3National Post, p. A1BRJune 26, 2001BRBRThe rumour mill at the bottom of the worldBRHidden truths of Lake Vostok excite scientists and rantersBRBRBryon OkadaBRFort Worth Star-TelegramBRBRA subglacial lake discovered four kilometres below the South PoleBRhas captured the imaginations not only of scientists but also ofBRconspiracy theorists and alien-encounter types.BRBRNASA wants to use Lake Vostok to test equipment for a mission toBRJupiter. Microbiologists want to study life in extreme climates.BRBREnvironmentalists halted exploration to keep the lake, believed toBRhave the purest freshwater on Earth, free of contaminants. ButBRwhen the drilling stopped the speculation intensified, particularlyBRvia the Internet, that scientists were about to expose the world toBRa deadly virus for which humans have no antibodies.BRBRAnd when several researchers became sick this year, requiringBRairlifts out of Antarctica, the cries of a government coverupBRreached a fever pitch.BRBRNow some, inspired by the release of the movie Atlantis: The LostBREmpire, believe Lake Vostok provides evidence that the lost cityBRlies under the South Pole, a victim of polar shifting and/or plateBRtectonics.BRBRHere is an excerpt of a popular posting in several Internet chatBRrooms:BRBRIf the Great Flood was caused by the Earth shifting its axis, asBRappears to be what actually happened, where what used to beBRthe North Pole ended up near the equator, then Atlantis didn'tBRsink. It simply relocated to the South Pole.BRBRTo put it simply, Lake Vostok is cool.BRBRFor those unfamiliar with the story, a lot of hard science has goneBRinto the exploration of Lake Vostok.BRBRThe Russians have had a base at the site since the 1950s, but itBRwas not until two decades later that scientists suspected thereBRwas something beneath it. Since 1989, scientists and engineersBRhave been drilling the ice sheet above Lake Vostok to study theBREarth's past climates. Drilling was abruptly halted whenBRresearchers hit a layer of refrozen ice 120 metres thick.BRBRThat led to speculation, later confirmed, that more than 3,600BRmetres below the base, there is a 23,000 square kilometreBRsubglacial lake, roughly the size of Lake Ontario. The water isBRunusually warm, probably a little below 0C, compared with -55C atBRthe surface.BRBRU.S. scientists studied the refrozen samples and found bacteria,BRwhich could suggest that a whole ecosystem different from ours --BRan alternate ecology -- may have existed for thousands, maybeBRmillions, of years.BRBRThat's what we know and it's not much, said John Priscu, aBRMontana State University microbial ecology professor whoBRconducted the study.BRBRWe know there's life down there, and it's a bizarre environmentBRunder three miles of ice, and it's been there a long time. That'sBRpretty wild.BRBRMr. Priscu is leading another study this summer, so the pictureBRshould become clearer in the next year or so.BRBRThe unanswered questions, along with the remoteness ofBRAntarctica and the hazy politics of that faraway continent, haveBRincreased the already intense speculation.BRBRThe Atlantis Blueprint, by Colin Wilson and Rand Flem-Ath,BRproposes that the people of Atlantis had created a thrivingBRmaritime society that is the proto-culture of societies today.BRBRThe basis of Mr. Flem-Ath's research is an ancient map depictingBRAtlantis that he found in a book while doing research for aBRscreenplay about hibernating aliens.BRBRThe map is a map of Atlantis, but if you take off all the labels, andBRyou compare it to the Earth's surface, it's very similar toBRAntarctica, he said. That was the first thing that got me on to it.BRBRHis work has often been used to promote Lake Vostok theories,BRbut his research locates the main city of Atlantis elsewhere.BRBRThe speculation about the lake does not surprise Ray Browne,BRfounder of the Popular Culture Association and professor emeritusBRat Bowling Green State University in Ohio, the United States's onlyBRdepartment devoted to studying the reality-in-flux of coolness.BRBRWhen there's an interest, you've got to feed that, Mr. BrowneBRsaid.BRBRSomeone has rediscovered Atlantis outside the Pillars ofBRHercules, inside the Mediterranean, in the Caribbean, under theBRSouth Pole and everywhere else ...BRBRThey want to find it, we want to find it, and if we never do, it'sBRstill tremendously interesting, because we all have a
Re: [CTRL] Bob Kerry, CIA War Crimes, And The Need For A War Crimes Trial
-Caveat Lector- Thought provoking but in the end it is falling on deaf ears in the establishment. The CIA and other intelligence groups in this country have long been using the same tactics they label as terroristic and illegal. They will continue to do so as long as there is a war to be fought. Whether that war is at home or abroad is irrelevent. On Mon, 25 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.counterpunch.org/;http://www.counterpunch.org//A BR BR BR BR BRFragging Bob: BR BRBob Kerrey, CIA War Crimes, BRAnd The Need For A War Crimes Trial BR BRby Douglas Valentine BR BRBy now everybody knows that former Senator Bob Kerrey led a seven-member team BRof Navy Seals into Thanh Phong village in February 1969, and murdered in cold BRblood more than a dozen women and children. BR BRWhat hardly anyone knows, and what no one in the press is talking about BR(although many of them know), is that Kerrey was on a CIA mission, and its BRspecific purpose was to kill those women and children. It was illegal, BRpremeditated mass murder and it was a war crime. BR BRAnd it's time to hold the CIA responsible. It's time for a war crimes BRtribunal to examine the CIA's illegal activities during and since the Vietnam BRWar. BR BRWar Crimes As Policy BR BRWar crimes were a central was part of a CIA strategy for fighting the Vietnam BRWar. The strategy was known as Contre Coup, and it was the manifestation of a BRbelief that the war was essentially political, not military, in nature. The BRCIA theorized that it was being fought by opposing ideological factions, each BRone amounting to about five percent of the total population, while the BRremaining ninety percent was uncommitted and wanted the war to go away. BR BRAccording to the CIA's mythology, on one side were communist insurgents, BRsupported by comrades in Hanoi, Moscow and Peking. The communists fought for BRland reform, to rid Vietnam of foreign intervention, and to unite the north BRand south. The other faction was composed of capitalists, often Catholics BRrelocated from North Vietnam in 1954 by the CIA. This faction was fighting to BRkeep South Vietnam an independent nation, operating under the direction of BRquiet Americans. BR BRCaught in the crossfire was the silent majority. The object shared by both BRfactions was to win these undecided voters over to its side. BR BRContre Coup was the CIA's response to the realization that the Communists BRwere winning the war for the hearts and minds of the people. It also was a BRresponse to the belief that they were winning through the use of BRpsychological warfare, specifically, selective terror the murder and BRmutilation of specific government officials. BR BRIn December 1963, Peer DeSilva arrived in Saigon as the CIA's station chief. BRHe claims to have been shocked by what he saw. In his autobiography, SubRosa, BRDeSilva describes how the VC had impaled a young boy, a village chief, and BRhis pregnant wife on sharp poles. To make sure this horrible sight would BRremain with the villagers, one of the terror squad used his machete to BRdisembowel the woman, spilling he fetus onto the ground. BR BRThe Vietcong, DeSilva said, were monstrous in the application of torture BRand murder to achieve the political and psychological impact they wanted. BR BRBut the methodology was successful and had tremendous intelligence potential, BRso DeSilva authorized the creation of small counter-terror teams, designed BRto bring danger and death to the Vietcong functionaries themselves, BRespecially in areas where they felt secure. BR BRHow Counter-Terror Worked In Vietnam BR BRThanh Phong village was one of those areas where Vietcong functionaries felt BRsecure. It was located in Kien Hoa Province, along the Mekong Delta. One of BRVietnam's most densely populated provinces, Kien Hoa was precariously close BRto Saigon, and is criss-crossed with waterways and rice paddies. It was an BRimportant rice production area for the insurgents as well as the Government BRof Vietnam, and thus was one of the eight most heavily infiltrated provinces BRin Vietnam. The estimated 4700 VC functionaries in Kien Hoa accounted for BRmore than five percent of the insurgency's total leadership. Operation Speedy BRExpress, a Ninth Infantry sweep through Kien Hoa in the first six months of BR1969, killed an estimated 11,000 civilians-supposedly VC sympathizers. BR BRThese functionaries formed what the CIA called the Vietcong Infrastructure BR(VCI). The VCI consisted of members of the People's Revolutionary Party, the BRNational Liberation Front, and other Communist outfits like the Women's and BRStudent's Liberation Associations. Its members were politicians and BRadministrators managing committees for business, communications, security, BRintelligence, and military affairs. Among their main functions
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Covert War Against Rock Review
-Caveat Lector- This book has been long in coming and will be met with much regard. There are many who disagree with Alex Constantine and his investigative style, but few can argue with his compelling subjects and interesting research. On Sun, 24 June 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Secret Weapons Two Sisters' Terrifying True Story of Sex,, Spies and Sabotage
-Caveat Lector- Sounds a lot like Candy Jones affair. There is a good article in the newest issue of Fortean Times which documents a lot of what Candy went through. Seems this program may have been tried on many people and been more widespread than initially believed. On Sat, 23 June 2001, Michael Pugliese wrote: -Caveat Lector- Barnes Noble.com - Secret Weapons : Two Sisters' Terrifying True Story of Sex, Spies and Sabotage From the Critics From Publisher's Weekly - Publishers Weekly Now in their late 30s, the Hersha sisters claim to have experienced chilling childhoods, recounted here by two Ohio-based investigators Schwarz (The Hillside Strangler) and former police captain and ritual abuse expert Griffis who say they have studied declassified CIA files and interviewed military personnel in an effort to bolster the Hersha memories. Before the age of seven, the sisters say, they were inducted into a covert, government-authorized, mind-control program designed to spawn spies and assassins. During weekends and summers, they were subjected to traumatizing experiments. Cheryl tells of her days as a caged lab rat, released to navigate electrified mazes. The two became psychological captives, programmed to respond to code words. Following practice in weaponry, martial arts and flight training, altered identities were purportedly introduced. At 15, Lynn was made part of a unit that experienced murder, and she assumed the identity of team leader Lt. Rick Shaw. As the seductive Samantha Gooding, Cheryl would paralyze her victims, and she later became the cocky chopper pilot Sgt. Thomas O'Neil. Naturally, these two men, long separated, were destined to meet: Cheryl Hersha! It's me, Lynn, your sister. You've got to let me go. You can't shoot me. Credibility collapses, as improbabilities are piled on inconsistencies, and the truth is buried beneath simplistic, pulp-adventure prose. In closing, the authors claim that Their story is true, following with an admission that they found no government documents about the program or the sisters. An elaborate disclaimer about the presumed thoughts and imagined words of the participants will lead many readers to ponder just how much real events have been fictionalized. (Mar.) Forecast: Since Walter Bowart's Operation Mind Control (1978) and Donald Bain's The Control of Candy Jones (1976), many books about CIA mind control have stacked up. This account of The Manchurian Candidate meets La Femme Nikita will soon work its way toward the bottom of the stack. Copyright 2001 Cahners Business Information. From Internet Book Watch In the last half of the twentieth century the American government carried out secret, heinous experiments designed to create and perfect soldiers and spies. Cheryl and Lynn Hersha were two sisters who, as children, were caught up in some of these top secret programs of torture and mind control that went under such covert titles as Monarch, Artichoke, MKULTRA, and Paperclip. In Secret Weapons: Two Sisters' Terrifying True Story Of Sex, Spies And Sabotage, the sisters effective collaborate with Dale Griffis and Ted Schwarz to reveal and analyze these black box operations through previously classified CIA files, the sister's own personal experiences, as well as extensive and informative interviews with experts to document one of the most chilling and incredible aspects of American history and one that never made it into any American history books. CUSTOMER REVIEWS - An Open Forum Number of Reviews: 1Average Rating: A reviewer, April 5, 2001, A Book for all Americans to Read It would be easy to dismiss this book as craziness or fiction if it were not for the thorough investigation into this type of activity through declassified CIA documents, and other witnesses and survivors. These kinds of horrible activities should not be dismissed from our minds because they are uncomfortable. We need anger and dicomfort to create change. Remember, there used to be a day in this country when no parent perpetrated acts of violence on their children. This book is not enjoyable but rivetting and necessary. RELATED TITLES More on this subject Fiction and Literature Thrillers and Espionage Copyright 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 barnesandnoble.com llc A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not
Re: [CTRL] Is Mad Cow Expanding Beyond Western Europe?
-Caveat Lector- It's much too late to stop the spread of the disease as far as I can see. Due to the fact that animal products have been used in feed for livestock so long and poor compliance among a lot of backwoods folks makes it almost impossible. Before long we will see it here as well and more importantly we will probably see the variant CJD as well. On Fri, 22 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.stratfor.com/home/giu/archive/062101.asp;http://www.stratfor.com/home/giu/archive/062101.asp/A BR BR BR BR BRIs Mad Cow Expanding Beyond Western Europe? BR21 June 2001 BR BRAnalysis BR BRGerman laboratory tests on a cow from a farm in the Czech Republic confirmed BRJune 13 the first case of mad cow disease beyond Western Europe. Fears the BRdisease is marching eastward heightened June 18 when Slovak authorities said BRthey would slaughter and test a cow imported from a Dutch herd in which the BRillness was suspected. BR BRThough these cases may be anomalies, the disease, known clinically as bovine BRspongiform encephalopathy, or BSE, poses a significant threat to Central BREurope. The region is unprepared to implement the vast efforts necessary to BRhalt the spread of BSE. An outbreak like the recent one in Western Europe BRwould decimate agriculture in Central Europe, particularly in Poland and BRUkraine. BR BRBSE is a degenerative disease affecting a cow's central nervous system. BRScientists suspect humans can contract a fatal illness, Cruetzfeldt-Jakob BRDisease, by eating BSE-contaminated beef. BR BRUntil last week, the only confirmed cases of BSE were in Western Europe, BRwhere outbreaks, primarily in the United Kingdom, have devastated the BRagricultural sector. BR BREuropean beef exporters will continue to suffer from falling exports and BRglobal bans on their beef as well as faltering domestic consumption, which is BRdown by 25 percent this year. BR BRIn April, scientists advised the European Commission that several Eastern BREuropean countries were at risk of BSE contamination. These Category III BRcountries, so designated to reflect high BSE risks but no confirmed cases, BRhad imported significant amounts of live cattle and meat-and-bonemeal from BREuropean Union countries with confirmed BSE cases. BR BRCategory III countries included the Czech Republic and Slovakia as well as BRAlbania, Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland and Switzerland. Of BRthose, only Poland exports a significant amount of beef - about 35,000 metric BRtons last year. The region's other large exporter of beef is Ukraine, which BRborders Slovakia. BR BRA source at the U.S. Foreign Agricultural Service said countries that export BRlarge numbers of live, potentially infected animals pose the greatest risk BRfor spreading BSE regionally. According to the Czech News Agency, most of the BR16,500 tons of Czech beef exported in 1999 were live cattle. Poland ranked BRsixth and Hungary 17th globally among live-cattle exporters in 1999. BR BRGiven the disease's unpredictability and four- to five-year incubation BRperiod, the risks of BSE popping up elsewhere in the region are considerable. BR BRPoorer Central European governments will not be able to provide compensation BRwithout running up huge budget deficits. That means farmers are more likely BRto evade eradication measures and sell their products on the black market. BR BRBlack market feed is another concern. A slaughterhouse by-product, such feed BRis cheaper than vegetable-based feeds but is considered a primary source of BRBSE infection. Hurting farmers may look to either purchase or sell BRmeat-and-bonemeal feed, increasing risks of the disease's spread. BR BRThe costs and complexities of containment further heighten risks of a BRspreading outbreak. Ukraine is of particular concern. Ukraine is a major beef BRexporter with vast territory and relatively porous borders with both Russia BRand Belarus - other potential black markets. BR BRConsidering the risks of a widespread outbreak in Eastern Europe, the rest of BRthe world may choose not to wait for further evidence and may ban all beef BRfrom the region - shooting an arrow into the heart of Central Europe's BRagricultural economy. BR BR BR BR/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout
Re: [CTRL] FW: The Rising Police State
-Caveat Lector- Indeed it does remain to be seen but what power lies outside that which controls the militarization of the police which can be brought to bear to confront it and change it? It seems to me that on this issue there is a whole lot of an I don't care attitude among people, that is until the police come knocking on your door, or smashing it in because they suspect you are armed and dangerous. The mentality of the people in this country needs to be changed. On Thu, 21 June 2001, Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- Unfortunately the article is scary in that it implies that nothing can be done to stem the tide. Is that true? That remains to be seen. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER =CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. ===Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A ===To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] FW: The Rising Police State
-Caveat Lector- Very thought provoking. Since the police are more constrained by the purse strings of federal administrators they more and more become the handmaidens of the federal authorities and have no leeway to act. The more there is a war mentality, of the us against them mindset which permeates this country (the war against drugs in particular) the more this will escalate until there comes a day when we have Generals in command of our local sheriff's office. Unfortunately the article is scary in that it implies that nothing can be done to stem the tide. Is that true? On Thu, 21 June 2001, Nessie wrote: -Caveat Lector- J.A.I.L. News Journal Los Angeles, California June 20, 2001 The Rising Police State Former Cop - Law Enforcement Is The Police State's Servant From J.D. Tuccille c. 2001 About.com 6-15-1 Several months ago, I penned a column called Cops who say 'no' that turned out to be one of the more thoroughly hashed-over pieces that I've churned out. As happens when I have lots of white space to fill, I waxed philosophic and evoked my inner literary self even quoting Ralph Waldo Emerson on the way to making a simple point. I suggested that in an age of proliferating laws that micromanage our lives and that involve ever-scarier law-enforcement powers, police officers have an obligation to consider the morality of the laws they enforce, and to refuse to enforce laws that have no business on the books. It's nice to be noticed, and my e-mail soon demonstrated that people have been paying attention. Messages pro and con streamed in, with a preponderance of readers saying that they agreed with the point I was making. Dissenters tended to use stronger language, leaving me only one possible response: My mother is not! - or not so that you can prove, anyway. Among the more interesting messages was a note from a retired police officer (I've checked his credentials) who served with a major urban-area law-enforcement agency, and so has more first-hand familiarity with modern policing than I hope to ever have. This former officer, who asked me not to use his name so that he gets no more grief at reunion picnics than necessary, suggested that my heart might be in the right place, but I just don't understand the depths of the problem. Rather than paraphrase what the one-time police officer said so well, I reproduce his note below... ___ I was a police officer for many years and am now retired. It is apparent to me that you suffer a few misunderstandings of the police officer's job. However, that is not to say that you aren't right. There are many laws that are stupid, wrong, unconstitutional, feel-good (hate crimes come to mind) and silly. Each police officer is given discretionary decision-making power. That means that barring the commission of six particular crimes (Burglary, Arson, Rape, Robbery, Murder and Mayhem) a police officer may decide for him or herself whether to arrest, report, release in the field, or simply to do nothing. For decades, I nullified bad laws (e.g., concealed carry of a weapon by honest citizens, gambling and prostitution) and so did many other officers. We did it because we had the power to and it was the right thing to do. Before you suggest how to correct modern day law enforcement, I suggest you first review the reason modern local law enforcement is becoming the police state's handmaiden. It is simple: Federal influence. Since the Nixon / Mitchell Administration, federal funds, training, hiring standards and procedures have penetrated into local law enforcement in an insidious manner. Training is of the siege mentality type, fear is inculcated in training, and the belief that no one needs a firearm but the police is encouraged and fostered. Waco was made possible by a perjured affidavit swearing that a drug lab was on the premises. They lied and got the army to help under Titles 26 and 32, USC. These are the same people who have been training local law enforcement for decades. Until we can remove the federal influence in local law enforcement, it will just get worse. Hell, it may not even be reversible. I respect your intentions, but there is a hell of a lot you don't know about how bad it has gotten in local law enforcement. Many of these kids have never read the Constitution, nor have they been required to. They also have a natural antipathy towards armed citizens as a result of brainwashing in primary and secondary school. Many are also unrestrained and unfamiliar with self-discipline. This can be fatal if not harmful to an innocent who is doing nothing more than lawfully owning a firearm. The job is one of the safest there is statistically, and I am sick of police administrators, in their effort to build empire, lying about being outgunned. They pander
Re: [CTRL] Europe's Echelon
-Caveat Lector- Any country that did not jump on the bandwagon on this one would have to be far out of the loop. The fact that other countries are doing the same thing should not be a surprise to anyone. There are dollars to be made spying on people, and the governments are in it for the gain, for them and their homegrown corporations. On Thu, 21 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,44689,00.html;http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,44689,00.html/A BR BR BR BRDoes Europe Covet Own Echelon? BRBy A HREF=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]%3Fsubject=Does%20Europe%20Covet%20Own%20Echelon%3F;Steve Kettmann/AFONT SIZE=1 /FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=012:29 p.m. June 20, 2001 PDT /FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=3 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BRIMG SRC=http://a1112.g.akamai.net/7/1112/492/03312000/static.wired.com/news/images/spacer.gif; WIDTH=89 HEIGHT=21 BORDER=0/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BRBRUSSELS, Belgium -- Maurizio Turco, an Italian member of the European BRParliament, shook up the last scheduled meeting of the temporary committee BRinvestigating the Echelon interception system in more ways than one Wednesday BRafternoon. BR BRTurco, who describes himself as a radical, charged that the committee's BRyear-long investigation may have raised international awareness about the BRsatellite-based surveillance system, but it was in effect nothing more than a BRsmokescreen. BR BRThe fact is, the Europeans set the whole thing up to distract attention BRwhile they set up their own system, Turco alleged. Committee chairman Carlos BRCoelho dismissed Turco's accusation as an attempt to grab the spotlight for BRhimself, and there was no question that A HREF=http://www.europarliament.net/ir_it.html;Turco/A has his own agenda. BR BRMinutes after the meeting started, Turco moved for an adjournment on the BRgrounds that parliamentary procedure had been violated by the failure to BRtranslate and circulate all the minutes from previous Echelon committee BRmeetings. BR BRWhat at first seemed a mere attention-grabbing ploy set off a lengthy BRdiscussion, and in the end the committee postponed its final vote on its BRresolution. It also delays consideration of the final version of a 113-page BRreport on Echelon, prepared by Rapporteur Gerhard Schmid, a German Parliament BRmember. BR BRNow, a vote on whether to submit a formal protest to the United States BRconcerning Echelon, originally planned for Thursday, has been pushed back to BRJuly 3. But whether or not Turco -- president of a block called the Radical BRMEPs of the Lista Bonino -- was grandstanding, his charge that Europe is BRestablishing its own Echelon-type system was not dismissed lightly. The BRreasoning is simple enough: If the United States and its partners are BRmonitoring telephone calls, faxes and e-mail through Echelon, can anyone be BRsurprised if other governments covet similar capabilities? BR BRIlka Schroeder, a German Green Party member who spoke at the meeting, said BRthat while she often disagrees with Turco, she thinks he might have a point BRabout European efforts to establish their own version of Echelon. BR BRShe referred to recent talks among European ministers concerning the BRexpansion of a program called A HREF=http://www.fipr.org/polarch/enfopol19.html;ENFOPOL/A to include such sensitive areas as BRcredit-card information and IP ports. BR BRThis could be much worse than Echelon, Schroeder said. If this is a report BR(from the Echelon committee) that pretends to protect the fundamental right BRto privacy in the European Union, then it must talk about ENFOPOL, because BRthat could be a worse threat to privacy than Echelon. BR BR BREven as a member of Parliament, it is hard to get information about what BRthey have decided. They aim to have complete surveillance of anyone in the BREuropean Union in real time. BR BRHer position is that all secret services are fundamentally untrustworthy and BRought to be disbanded. BR BRShe objects to the Echelon committee's emphasis on trying to bring the BRsatellite-based surveillance activities of the United States -- in league BRwith Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia and Canada -- under some kind of BRlegal oversight, perhaps even through the World Trade Organization. BR BRThis is not a matter of law, she said. Secret services have broken laws so BRmany times, you cannot just make a law. Any democratic control makes secret BRservices more legitimate. BR BRAs for whatever efforts are underway to give Europe an Echelon-type system, BRTurco said he was serious about the charges he made in the meeting. BR BRI think that certainly in Europe, there is the political will to
Re: [CTRL] Religion The Brain
-Caveat Lector- I'd have to agree that there is no way that such a thing as numinous experience can be proven objectively, but would also agree that if it does exist (and I don't rule it out completely) it would exist alongside of the non-spiritual world, for it would have to. On Tue, 19 June 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote: -Caveat Lector- Right, plus the spiritual realm is on a different plane of experience than the mental or emotional. There's no reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the nonspiritual, which it does. There's no such thing as spiritual. And you can't demonstrate that there is. All you are describing, is the goings on of the normal and abnormal brain. J2 - Original Message - From: tenebroust To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Religion The Brain -Caveat Lector- I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God or the brain which thinks of him. Religious experience is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people and thus will always be unquantifiable. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Religion The Brain
-Caveat Lector- If there is a spiritual realm it cannot be proven objectively but must always remain a subjective experience. If it does exist (and it may) then it must exist simultaneously with the NON-spiritual. On Tue, 19 June 2001, Foxter wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=windows-1252 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4134.600 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#c8e0d8 DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2Right, plus the spiritual realm is on a different plane of experience than the mental or emotional.nbsp; There's no reason the spiritual realm can't exist parallel with the nonspiritual, which it does./FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2/FONTnbsp;/DIV BLOCKQUOTE style=PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #80 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px DIV style=FONT: 10pt arial- Original Message - /DIV DIV style=BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: blackBFrom:/B A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];tenebroust/A /DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt arialBTo:/B A [EMAIL PROTECTED] href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A /DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt arialBSent:/B Monday, June 18, 2001 10:45 PM/DIV DIV style=FONT: 10pt arialBSubject:/B Re: [CTRL] Religion amp; The Brain/DIV DIVBR/DIV-Caveat Lector-BRBRI fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God or the brain which thinks of him.nbsp; Religious experience is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people and thus will always be unquantifiable.BRBRFONT face=Galliard BT color=#80 size=2nbsp;/FONT/BLOCKQUOTE/BODY/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Truth About Black Slavery And The Confederate Flag (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- I think the pendulum of talk about slavery swings to easily back and forth between black and non-black races. It would be better perhaps to focus on the institution itself, whereas it is the exploitation of people and the denial of human rights and values. Who is being enslaved is secondary to the issue of slavery and arguing over the extent of black (African) slavery as compared to other races is counterproductive to the essential inhumanity of the act, no matter the races involved. On Tue, 19 June 2001, Yardbird wrote: In a message dated 6/18/01 6:16:51 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If there wasn't a market for slaves amongst the European powers, there wouldn't have been a slave trade of the scope it grew to become... I don't know about that. The Arabs did a thriving business in buying and selling Africans of all colors. OH wait, non black slaves dot count do they. only black Africans have been scared for generations, if not eternity, by slavery? No, non-black slaves don't count as they fail to register on the guilty white liberal conscience. Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Ruby Ridge figure discusses McVeigh
-Caveat Lector- To be sure, nothing happens in a vacuum. He is responsible for his actions but that does not negate the responsibility of LAW ENFORCEMENT officers to obey the intent and purpose of the laws they are supposed to enforce. If anything they should be held to a higher standard of restraint of the use of deadly force than others because they are acting at the behest of society at large (supposedly). On Mon, 18 June 2001, Peat wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#ff DIVFONT size=2STRONGIt's a tragedy that he lostnbsp;his wife so senslessly, however, he must also be thinking about what started that whole mess, which was his involvement in breaking a law at at time when the government was Militia Crazy.nbsp; I don't know the circumstances, but it seems to me that these types of things don't happen to people that frefrain from going around selling sawed off shotguns...still no reason for someone to get shot, but nevertheless he is just as responsible for kicking off this mess as anyone. My two cents. /STRONG PFONT face=AvantGarde Md BT size=2A href=http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?section=localamp;display=content/local/1rubyridge.inc;STRONGRuby Ridge figure discusses McVeighnbsp;/STRONG/A/P PSTRONGFONT face=AvantGarde Md BT size=2By MICHAEL JAMISON Of the MissoulianBRBRKALISPELL #8212; Randy Weaver#8217;s heart sank as he listened to reports of Timothy McVeigh#8217;s execution.BRBRIt sank, he said, just as it did when he saw the first grisly images of wreckage littering Oklahoma City. It sank as it did when he learned that his own deadly standoff with federal agents had ignited a fuse in McVeigh#8217; s mind, leading, in part, to the explosion that killed 168 people.BRBR#8220;I can sympathize with McVeigh,#8221; Weaver said Tuesday from his home in Jefferson, Iowa. #8220;I can sympathize with those folk who lost relatives in Oklahoma City, too. Everybody#8217; s killing everybody. I sympathize with everybody.#8221;BRBREverybody, that is, except the ones he calls #8220;rogue federal agents who continue to act above and beyond the law.#8221;/FONT/STRONG/P PFore More/P PA href=http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?section=localamp;display=content/local/1rubyridge.inc;http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?section=localamp;display=content/local/1rubyridge.inc/A/P Pnbsp;/P PBRLinkgasmBRAn Online Review of News, Views, Issues amp; AmusementsBRGet great links. Feel better.BRHomepage Address:nbsp; A href=http://www.geocities.com/peatluke/newsblog.html;www.geocities.com/peatluke/newsblog.html/ABRZine Page Address: A href=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Newsblog;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Newsblog/ABR~~BR/P/FONT/FONT/DIV/BODY/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] US 'planned nuclear first strike on Russia'
-Caveat Lector- The only really surprising thing about this is that it never happened. It seems that there were ultimatley other plans for the Soviet Union than were originally intended, also could it have been a ploy to force NATO down the throats of countries reluctant to side with the US? On Mon, 18 June 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote: -Caveat Lector- The Daily Telegraph (UK) June 15, 2001 US 'planned nuclear first strike on Russia' By Michael Smith BRITISH intelligence warned in 1951 that the Americans were planning to wage a preventative atomic war on the Russians the next year with or without the support of their Nato allies. The Director of Naval Intelligence said the United States military was convinced that all-out war against the Soviet Union was not only inevitable but imminent. Vice-Admiral Eric Longley-Cook went on to say that the Americans had, accordingly, gone ahead to prepare for an inevitable clash of arms with the Soviet Union, 'fixed' for mid or late 1952. Details of the report, and the British concerns that their ally was about to provoke a third world war, are contained in a new book by Richard J Aldrich, Professor of Politics at Nottingham University. The Hidden Hand says Longley-Cook's report, so secret that only six copies were produced, was the culmination of two years of tension in which the Russians had exploded their first atomic bomb, four years before the earliest Nato intelligence prediction. During that period, a succession of senior British officers had returned from visits to America expressing alarm over the apparent conviction among their United States counterparts that they should attack Russia. Longley-Cook said that the Russians were far too cautious to start a war themselves. The main threat to strategic stability and the security of Britain appeared to come from the United States where McCarthyism was in full flow. Many people in America have made up their minds that war with Russia is inevitable and there is a strong tendency in military circles to 'fix' the zero date for war, he said. It is doubtful whether, in a year's time, the US will be able to control the Frankenstein monster which they are creating. There is a definite risk of the USA becoming involved in a preventative war against Russia, however firmly their Nato allies object. It was not just the view of senior United States generals and intelligence officers, who seemed unwilling to endorse a threat assessment based on factual intelligence rather than their own prejudices. Many ordinary Americans shared their opinions. There was an apocalyptic view among the inhabitants of major American cities, who visualise in their own concentrated home town the ruins of Hamburg and Berlin, Longley-Cook said. These and other Americans say, 'We have the bomb, let's use it now while the balance is in our favour. Since war with Russia is inevitable, let's get it over with now'. Some talk of an 'ultimatum from strength', but many more believe in the necessity for 'smashing the Russians' at the earliest possible moment. There was certainly evidence to support the British assessment. One US general had said that the West could not afford to wait until Europe or even America was devastated by a nuclear holocaust. We can afford, however, to create a wilderness in Russia without serious repercussion on Western civilisation. We have a moral obligation to stop Russia's aggression by force, if necessary, rather than face the consequences of delay. Another US general said that his country was already at war with Russia. Whether we call it a Cold War or apply any other term we are not winning. It seems to me that almost any analysis of the situation shows that the only way that we can be certain of winning is to take the offensive as soon as possible and hit Russia hard enough to at least prevent her from taking over Europe. If we plan and execute the operation properly, the weight of our attack in the early stages may be sufficient to compel Russia to accept our terms for a real peace. It will not be a preventative war, because we are already at war. Most copies of Longley-Cook's report were ordered to be destroyed once read but one was passed to Winston Churchill after he returned to power in late 1951. He was initially highly dismissive, even suggesting that Longley-Cook must be a communist and ordering that a sharp eye should be kept on the writer. But in April 1952, after returning from Washington having failed to obtain a veto on US strikes from British bases, he had changed his mind. He told his private secretary: I want to see the secret report prepared by the late Director of Naval Intelligence and sent to me by the First Lord when I was in America. Let me have it back again. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list.
Re: [CTRL] America declares 'war' on America
-Caveat Lector- This is certainly a good polemic against the Idea of a war on drugs or anything else for that matter. It puts me in mind of everyone patriotically doing their duty to save the country from the scourge. It is wrong and always has been. The rhetoric is certainly heating up lately, one can only hope that some sanity is brought to the issue and the use of drugs is legalized, and soon, and all the money used in the needless war could be put to far better uses. On Mon, 18 June 2001, Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! America declares 'war' on America -- -- © 2001 WorldNetDaily.com It's funny that a nation, rooted in the revolutionary oratory of men like Patrick Henry and the pamphletry of Thomas Paine, the fiery rhetoric of Samuel Adams and the sermonizing from the pens and pulpits of men like the Revs. Jacob Cushing and Moses Mather, would have such a hang-up with language. America was forged in the smithy of the spoken word and printed page. The founders regularly met in pubs and inns both before the War for Independence, to hash out justification and agreement for secession from England, and after, to begin the arduous task of making a government. Adams' Committees on Correspondence kept revolutionary ideas in circulation, while incendiary tracts by the likes of Paine and others gave backbone and resolve to the colonials. After Britain's bonds were shaken off, the founders turned attentions to carefully crafting the Articles of Confederation, first, and finally the Constitution of the United States. Polemics pro and con shot back and forth, detailing every benefit, downside, blessing and danger inherent to the proposed central government; these debates are preserved for us in part in collections such as the Federalist Papers and the Anti-Federalist Papers. Language was so important to Noah Webster that he composed his dictionary specifically to distinguish Americans' use of English from the British. It was obviously important to many others, as well, since it sold like crazy. Take a thumb through the Declaration of Independence, Paine's Common Sense, or John Adams' A Defense of the American Constitutions. Americans find their freedom in a mountain of words. It is strange, and all the more tragic, then, that a nation set free by a million speeches is now being re-enslaved by just one syllable. Whether the citizens of the United States know it or not, liberties guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights are being shackled by a metaphor, bound and gagged by three little letters: War. Not war against a foreign government; not war against a nation that would threaten our people, our soil, our lives and livelihoods. Those sorts of wars, while tragic, are vital to the preservation of liberty. To save our properties, persons and liberties from plunder, sometimes brutal and violent force must be used to grisly and ghastly ends against the gangster armies of foreign powers. Such is the price of freedom. That is, however, not the sort of war I'm talking about. In order to capitalize on the unifying spirit and goodwill engendered by that righteous sort of entanglement, American politicians have, since President Lyndon Johnson, used the word war to gain a backing for their political programs and social schemes. Johnson kicked off the scam with his War on Poverty. President Nixon, facing Johnson's successor in a battle for the nation's biggest bully pulpit, conjured up the same rhetoric â#8364; only Tricky Dick directed the guns of political rhetoric toward narcotics, officially launching America's War on Drugs. Both of these schemes fail any real-world definition of war. The enemy is less than clear, the battlefield is even less obvious and the rules of engagement are fungible and at odds with our founding spirit and written Constitution. Take just the drug war. In a war, there's no such thing as due process before depriving a man of life, liberty or property â#8364; as required by the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. Which is more than understandable. It's a war, after all. Hardly any time to go requesting warrants and worrying about protecting the liberties of your opponents. The goal of war is to win, and recalling the wisdom of Gen. George Patton, you don't win a war by dying for your country; you make the other poor, dumb bastard (I think those were his words) die for his. Most any tactic in war is excused and commended provided it results in victory. As such, enemies have little in the way of rights, and if they are the aggressor nation, they've ceded whatever rights they might have had. The bully who starts a fight should not be surprised if his cry of uncle is met with a few more fists to the teeth and boots to the kidneys.
Re: [CTRL] Patients fighting HMOs' denial of claims, and many are winning
-Caveat Lector- There is a definite conflict of interest in these cases as there are in pharmaceutical companies payments to physicians that should be put a stop to. Basing care on what is medically necessary as determined by physicians who are unencumbered by economic ties and incentives should be the only way to go, never should it be based on economic means when someone's health is at stake. It surprises me that people don't see the obvious conflict this creates. On Mon, 18 June 2001, Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! Patients fighting HMOs' denial of claims, and many are winning MICHELE CHANDLER [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dawn Ripley never had a problem with her health insurance plan -- until her daughter, Anna, came along last year. ``I noticed her head seemed misshapened, it seemed like she had more face on one side than the other,'' said Ripley, who lives in Weston. After several months of therapy, a physician determined that the infant's condition could be corrected with a special $3,000 helmet. Ripley's insurance company denied the request, deeming Anna's condition cosmetic, not medical. She paid out of pocket for the device. But Ripley also began a fight to the finish with her insurer -- which ultimately paid. Amid a national debate over patients' rights and growing frustration with managed care -- eight of every 10 Florida residents are in those plans -- thousands of Floridians each year are challenging the decisions of their HMOs, and many are winning. Statewide figures are not available, but at one healthcare insurer -- Health Options, one of the state's largest -- 4,981 Florida patients lodged complaints last year, and 675 entered the plan's formal grievance process. A patients' bill of rights that will be debated in Congress this week would give HMO members new rights to sue if they are denied needed care. The two proposals the Senate will debate differ mainly over how patients can sue managed-care companies and whether the companies' liability should be limited. But in many cases, there are existing alternatives. By state law, consumers at odds with an HMO's decision are entitled to appeal through their health plan's grievance process -- and thousands do just that every year. If the decision still doesn't go the patient's way, the consumer can take the case to the Statewide Provider and Subscriber Assistance Program, a state government-run panel of state officials, physicians and consumers that will make a binding decision. Overall, 21 percent of the 177 cases taken to the panel last year were decided in favor of patients, according to the Agency for Health Care Administration, which runs the program. An additional 29 percent of the cases were settled in favor of the consumer before the panel's review. The top disputes: repayment for emergency care, treatment by non-network medical providers, and clashes over benefits and what should be deemed medical necessities. Among the cases overturned by the state panel: It ordered an HMO to cover surgery needed by a patient who received facial injuries while cleaning his shotgun. The HMO had said it would not cover some of the surgery on the grounds that it was cosmetic; the HMO's doctors insisted the surgery was needed to restore function. Although Ripley's case was resolved without going before the state panel, Ripley's health plan also initially deemed Anna's condition cosmetic and would not pay for the head brace to correct it. That prompted Ripley to embark on a mission to prove that the device was a medically necessary treatment. She linked up with an Internet support group -- www.caps2000.org -- for families of children with the same problem. At night, she scoured medical encyclopedias online. She contacted the manufacturer of the head brace, who told her that her insurance company and others had paid for the device. She wrote to her elected officials. She got letters of support from the child's doctors. The health plan, which was offered by her husband John's employer, turned her down. She appealed a second time, as the health plan's grievance procedure allowed. And she contacted her husband's employer, United Parcel Service, hoping the company would help with her appeal. After several months, she won the appeal -- with the health plan agreeing the device was medically necessary. Payment for the device was approved a few weeks later and the Ripleys were reimbursed. The lesson? Persistence can pay off. ``That's how hard you have to fight them,'' Ripley said. ``Don't quit. Keep going.'' Beth Gabrini, an information specialist with the Florida Department of Elder Affairs' program known as SHINE, or Serving the Health Insurance Needs of Elders, said some denials stem from a simple error -- an improper billing code entered by a medical provider. Those codes are used by
Re: [CTRL] Armey takes on traffic-surveillance cameras
-Caveat Lector- While he's at it why doesn't he do something about the passive radar put in airports to look at naked people, and the infrared devices used to illegally search someones home without warrants, and the numerous cameras on display throughout the country spying on us everywhere we go. This is a small issue but indicative of larger more serious trends. On Mon, 18 June 2001, Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! Armey takes on traffic-surveillance cameras Lawmaker says cities have shortened yellow lights to raise revenue -- -- Editor's note: In collaboration with the hard-hitting Washington, D.C., newsweekly Human Events, WorldNetDaily brings you this special report every Monday. Readers can subscribe to Human Events through WND's online store. By Joseph A. D'Agostino © 2001 Human Events House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-Texas, is crusading against the red-light cameras that have sprouted up at intersections around the country, saying that they violate constitutional principles and that localities have deliberately shortened yellow-light intervals in order to raise revenue. Traffic will be safer, said Armey, when local governments increase yellow intervals and stop trying to trap motorists in petty red-light violations. We are responsible for protecting people's constitutional rights, Armey told Human Events. We believe that this is an intrusion against people's constitutional rights. We have the state legislature in New Jersey that agrees with us, said Armey, and we have the Supreme Court in Alaska that agrees with us. We ought to hold some hearings on this. No committee has yet committed to holding hearings on Armey's proposal. There's been an evolution of the federal standards and recommendations that has moved us away from the time-honored and effective business of using the length of the yellow light to ensure safety at intersections, Armey said. We believe that they have consciously done just the opposite of good yellow-light policy to increase the stream of revenue. They have not demonstrated any improvement in public well-being because of these cameras, Armey added. The House Republican leader said he does not want to use federal regulations to micromanage states and localities in their use of cameras for issuing traffic citations. I am against that on principle, he said. Instead, Armey opposes traffic cameras of any kind, period, as a matter of constitutional principle. I have taken the same position with regard to speeding cameras, he said. The problem with electronic surveillance is that you are denied your right to face your accuser and you are assumed to be guilty until you have proved yourself to be innocent. In fact, you are assumed to be there. A police officer has immediate identification of who's driving the car. Armey warned that the United States could end up like England. I would say that I could leave my residence in London, travel all around town and make three or four stops, and there would be a record of everywhere I went. The surveillance there is that thorough, he said. Said Armey spokesman Richard Diamond, The British government has proposed increasing the number of tickets issued by cameras from 550,000 to 10 million a year. At present, no American municipality is planning to use traffic cameras for anything other than red-light running and speeding. A report prepared by Armey's office says, Today's formula for calculating yellow times yields yellow times that can in some cases be about 30 percent shorter than the older formula. Armey's office collected traffic studies from around the country and found that when the yellow-light time increased, red-light running decreased. In Mesa, Ariz., for example, the number of vehicles entering an intersection on red dropped by 73 percent; in Georgia, by 75 percent; at sites in Virginia and Maryland, 77 percent or more, including two sites where researchers reported that the red-light running problem was virtually eliminated. But lengthening yellow times does not raise revenue. Fifty cities in 10 states now use red-light cameras. In 18 months, San Diego's 19 cameras have raked in $30 million. West Hollywood, Calif., earns $4.9 million annually from its cameras. New York City's 15 cameras made $5.4 million in their first year. San Diego's red-light camera ticketing program suffered a setback this month after the city discovered a glitch that meant some motorists may have been ticketed unjustly. After a lawsuit was filed in February, discovery turned up a Potential Intersection Worksheet prepared for the city when it was deciding where to install red-light cameras. Five of the potential sites were rejected because long yellow, vio [violator] volume not there. Other noted
Re: [CTRL] Religion The Brain
-Caveat Lector- I fail to see the controversy in this issue, it seems to me that there is no way to determine which came first God or the brain which thinks of him. Religious experience is also a very personal thing and is experienced markedly differently between any two people and thus will always be unquantifiable. On Mon, 18 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html;http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/science/A10767-2001Jun16.html/A BR BR BR BRTracing the Synapses of Our Spirituality BRResearchers Examine Relationship Between Brain and Religion BR BRIBy Shankar Vedantam/I BRWashington Post Staff Writer BR BR BRSunday, June 17, 2001; Page A01 BR BRIn Philadelphia, a researcher discovers areas of the brain that are activated BRduring meditation. At two other universities in San Diego and North Carolina, BRdoctors study how epilepsy and certain hallucinogenic drugs can produce BRreligious epiphanies. And in Canada, a neuroscientist fits people with BRmagnetized helmets that produce spiritual experiences for the secular. BR BRThe work is part of a broad effort by scientists around the world to better BRunderstand religious experiences, measure them, and even reproduce them. BRUsing powerful brain imaging technology, researchers are exploring what BRmystics call nirvana, and what Christians describe as a state of grace. BRScientists are asking whether spirituality can be explained in terms of BRneural networks, neurotransmitters and brain chemistry. BR BRWhat creates that transcendental feeling of being one with the universe? It BRcould be the decreased activity in the brain's parietal lobe, which helps BRregulate the sense of self and physical orientation, research suggests. How BRdoes religion prompt divine feelings of love and compassion? Possibly because BRof changes in the frontal lobe, caused by heightened concentration during BRmeditation. Why do many people have a profound sense that religion has BRchanged their lives? Perhaps because spiritual practices activate the BRtemporal lobe, which weights experiences with personal significance. BR BRThe brain is set up in such a way as to have spiritual experiences and BRreligious experiences, said Andrew Newberg, a Philadelphia scientist who BRwrote the book Why God Won't Go Away. Unless there is a fundamental change BRin the brain, religion and spirituality will be here for a very long time. BRThe brain is predisposed to having those experiences and that is why so many BRpeople believe in God. BR BRThe research may represent the bravest frontier of brain research. But BRdepending on your religious beliefs, it may also be the last straw. For while BRNewberg and other scientists say they are trying to bridge the gap between BRscience and religion, many believers are offended by the notion that God is a BRcreation of the human brain, rather than the other way around. BR BRIt reinforces atheistic assumptions and makes religion appear useless, said BRNancey Murphy, a professor of Christian philosophy at Fuller Theological BRSeminary in Pasadena, Calif. If you can explain religious experience purely BRas a brain phenomenon, you don't need the assumption of the existence of God. BR BRSome scientists readily say the research proves there is no such thing as BRGod. But many others argue that they are religious themselves, and that they BRare simply trying to understand how our minds produce a sense of spirituality. BR BRNewberg, who was catapulted to center stage of the neuroscience-religion BRdebate by his book and some recent experiments he conducted at the University BRof Pennsylvania with co-researcher Eugene D'Aquili, says he has a sense of BRhis own spirituality, though he declined to say whether he believes in God, BRbecause any answer would prompt people to question his agenda. I'm really BRnot trying to use science to prove that God exists or disprove God exists, BRhe said. BR BRNewberg's experiment consisted of taking brain scans of Tibetan Buddhist BRmeditators as they sat immersed in contemplation. After giving them time to BRsink into a deep meditative trance, he injected them with a radioactive dye. BRPatterns of the dye's residues in the brain were later converted into images. BR BRNewberg found that certain areas of the brain were altered during deep BRmeditation. Predictably, these included areas in the front of the brain that BRare involved in concentration. But Newberg also found decreased activity in BRthe parietal lobe, one of the parts of the brain that helps orient a person BRin three-dimensional space. BR BRWhen people have spiritual experiences they feel they become one with the BRuniverse and lose their sense of self, he said. We think that may be BRbecause of what is happening in that area -- if you block that area you lose
Re: [CTRL] Nuclear Bomb Tested In Aussie Rainforest?
-Caveat Lector- Australia has, it seems, always been the place for interesting testing of unusual devices. And a place where one can find many anomolous things and events. Certainly our relationship with the Australians is full of secrets and strange associations. On Mon, 18 June 2001, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaBODY BGCOLOR=#ffA HREF=http://www.abc.net.au/ra/newsdaily/s312457.htm;http://www.abc.net.au/ra/newsdaily/s312457.htm/AFONT COLOR=#66 SIZE=2 BR BR BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0Nuclear bomb may have been tested in Australian rainforest/FONTFONT COLOR=#66 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FAMILY=SANSSERIF FACE=Arial LANG=0 Declassified Australian government documents reportedly suggest a nuclear BRbomb may have been detonated in a tropical rainforest in northern Queensland BRat the height of the Cold War. BR BRThe documents are reported in the latest edition of New Scientist magazine. BR BRThey show that Britain, the United States and Australia set off a 50-tonne BRbomb in the rainforest at Iron Range in north Queensland in 1963 as part of a BRsecret military experiment codenamed Operation Blowdown. BR BRIts detonation was designed to test how the rainforest would react to such an BRimpact. BR BRBut while the Australian documents describe the blast as testing the effect BRof a nuclear explosion, the British government says it was a conventional BRbomb designed to simulate an air-detonated nuclear device. BR BRHowever, declassified records in the National Archives of Australia describe BROperation Blowdown as an investigation into the effect of nuclear explosions BRin a tropical forest. (06:54:57 AEST) BR BR/FONT/HTML Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Truth About Black Slavery And The Confederate Flag
-Caveat Lector- Of course the issue here is a lot more complex than the origin of the slave trade and also as to races in slavery. But rather it is one of the decimation by imperialism of the entire African continent. Whether that domination is from within or without is secondary to the end result. Slavery has been an abominable practice for all of human history, it should be acknowledged as such rather than minimized by trying to blame the other guy. Every race has done so, and continue to do so, but much more stealthily these days. On Mon, 18 June 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 6/18/01 3:06:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several of Africa's proudest empires were built on the sale of slaves. For centuries Africa's chief export was human beings. When Congresswoman Maxine Waters speaks of my African ancestors' struggle for freedom, she doesn't know what she's talking about. Slavery was an African institution long before it spread to the South, and there was no abolition movement to trouble it. Gee, I guess there is no history of slaves being held by other races. What a crock of self-serving scholarship. And the gentleman should read more than one book on slavery before baring his ignorance to the world. MHO Om K A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Secrets of Tim McVeigh
-Caveat Lector- Of course much of this stuff has been known for some time, the sad fact is that no one is listening, rather they are focussed on the fact that the murderer McVeigh is dead, ong live the Federal Government which caught him and put a lid on all of it. There is so much bullshit surrounding this issue, that it smells a lot like JFK's assassination, a lot of disinformation put out by the Government to cloud the issue for all time. The truth will never fully be known by anyone in either instance. On Mon, 18 June 2001, Schmidt wrote: -Caveat Lector- This was just posted at Sherman Skolnicks website, so as it doesn't seem to have been put on list yet I present: http://www.skolnicksreport.com/tmsecrets.html and check his other site http://www.skolnickstv.com and my site of course! http://leviathan.weblogs.com THE SECRETS OF TIMOTHY McVEIGH by Sherman H. Skolnick 06/15/01 Shackled and hand-cuffed to major financial forces, the moguls of the monopoly press believe the secrets of Timothy McVeigh ended when he ended. And the stooges, masquerading as our leaders, governing nowadays without our consent, are inclined to believe that as well. What they did not realize is that some of their supposed confidential conversations were not that hush-hush. Were overheard and noted, even apparently taped. What did they know and not tell us? Information confirmed to them as correct but kept from the common people? [1] That the American secret political police had McVeigh under video and audio scrutiny from at least thirty days prior to the multiple bombings on April 19, 1995, of the Alfred P. Murrah Building. [2] McVeigh was surveilled in Kansas and Oklahoma in the company of two middle-eastern types, partly disguised. As known to the FBI , the American CIA, and other espionage agencies, foreign and domestic, his two handlers accompanied him in a late model four-wheel drive pick-up truck. [3] As these agencies corroborated, McVeigh's supervisors were actually Iraqi military officers, from intelligence units, quietly brought into the United States at the end of the brief Persian Gulf War, 1991. They were part of more than four thousand of the same, supposed defectors, arranged by then President George Herbert Walker Bush. The Elder Bush, many do not know, for the decade of the 1980s, was the PRIVATE business partner of Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi strongman. Together, they shared billions and billions of dollars of kick-backs and protection funds, from the weak oil sheikdoms of the Persian Gulf. A little known Chicago federal lawsuit was brought, in October, 1990, during the lead-up to the shooting war, to keep concealed the related bank records showing the clandestine partnership. The case involved the records of the Chicago unit of Italy's largest bank, owned in part by the Vatican, Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, BNL. The Federal Reserve Board wanted the House Banking Committee Chairman to agree never to use the records because he refused to sign a secrecy oath. As the only journalist attending the court hearing, I interviewed some of the participants in the back of the courtroom.I asked and received identical answers three times, to be certain of the crucial data. They confirmed the Bush-Saddam relationship and the monstrous kick-backs from the sheikdoms. Only one publication, a populist newspaper, The Spotlight, penetrated the nationwide censorship and ran my exclusive story, August 19, 1991. The case was entitled People of the State of Illinois ex rel Willis C. Harris, Bank Commissioner vs. the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and the House Banking Committee, No. 90 C 6863, in the U.S. District Court, and later heard in the U.S. Court of Appeals, 7th Circuit, Chicago. The three-judge federal appeals court panel was dominated by the infamous Chief Judge Richard A. Posner [(312) 435-5806] [Visit our website for our story Chief Crook Enters Microsoft Case.] Posner and his virtual shadow, federal appeals Judge Frank H. Easterbrook [(312) 435-5808], although on the bench, continue to represent reportedly the billion dollar stock portfolio of the oil-soaked Rockefeller's University of Chicago, were they used to be law professors. [The two judges have reportedly failed to disclose the relationship in their mandatory annual Federal Financial Disclosure Report.] As part of the cover-up, Chief Judge Posner ordered the Bush/Saddam/BNL case removed from the courthouse. Later, Posner and his shadow Easterbrook, as a reprisal for my reporting the case on my TV Show, unconstitutionally ordered me and a TV program associate of mine, Joseph Andeuccetti, barred from all the federal courtrooms in the 7th Circuit, Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin. [The U.S. Supreme Court refused a remedy to this blatant First Amendment violation.] [4] Of the more than four thousand Iraqi military officers brought into the U.S. by then
Re: [CTRL] Strange Murders In Arizona...
-Caveat Lector- I have not failed to notice a marked upswing in this type of thing in recent years, and one at least must stop to wonder at what is the impetus for it. Could the use of mind control/disruption be once again at the head of the population control agenda? Don't know, but it is interesting to think about. On Sun, 17 June 2001, M. F. Abernathy wrote: -Caveat Lector- There seem to be so *many* of them. people committing murders because 'voices' tell them to kill, people who go out and kill others and then have absolutely no recollection of it later. What could explain these bizarre occurrences...Could it be mind control/hypnosis? Here's one example [of the *dozens* that I have in my files on Arizona murders] : On September 24, 1994, Eugene Doerr called police. He reported waking up and finding a dead woman in his bedroom. The nude victim, Karen Bohl, was found lying on the floor with several lacerations to her head. A nipple had been cut off her breast. She suffered major trauma to her vagina and rectal area. Bruises and abrasions were found on her neck and other parts of her body. Investigators noticed signs of a major struggle inside the apartment, including bloodstains on walls, floors and furniture in different rooms. An autopsy later revealed Karen Bohl died from multiple blunt force trauma. Eugene Doerr's clothes and most of his body were covered in dried blood. When his clothing was removed, investigators observed his pelvic area and penis were also saturated with dried blood. He had several injuries, including a broken hand, a deep laceration to his wrist consistent with a knife wound. A bloody steak knife was found on the bathroom sink. A bloodstained brass pipe was located on the living room floor. Eugene Doerr told police he had gone out drinking at a couple of bars the previous evening, and did not remember coming home. When he woke up, he found the victim's body and realized he was covered with blood. He claimed he had no idea what happened. === Eugene Doerr is currently on death row in Arizona. I suspect that there are many people in a similar situation -- people who are being *controlled* and used to commit murders and other crimes, and then discarded afterwards. This matter deserves a great deal of further research. === MARtin F. ABErnathy [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -- 6/18/01 A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om Welcome to the desert of the real. Morpheus, in The Matrix My God it's full of stars! Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] Drug war my ass - why we are really in the region.
-Caveat Lector- Certainly puts a little bit different spin on the matter but one cannot deny that the so-called war on drugs is in fact a tool for money laundering and get rich quick schemes for the power brokers of this country as well. On Sat, 16 June 2001, Nurev Ind. wrote: -Caveat Lector- = Oil accounts for 35 percent of Colombia's exports, with coal making up 7 percent. Colombia is Latin America's fifth-largest oil exporter, and sends 85 percent of its crude to the U.S. ___ = REUTERS Wednesday, 13 June 2001 Foreign investment up in Colombia's oilfields By C. Bryson Hull HOUSTON, Texas -- Foreign oil companies are tapping more of Colombia's rich oil and gas fields as the country offers better contractual terms and increased security, the nation's ambassador to the United States said on Wednesday. ``Colombia has understood that our efforts to make investments in the energy sector more attractive to you are tied to the well-being of all our citizens,'' Ambassador Luis Alberto Moreno told an audience of energy executives at a luncheon sponsored by the InterAmerican Chamber of Commerce. President Andres Pastrana's administration has already increased foreign investment by upping the return energy companies get from exploration and production activities, Moreno said. Previously, foreign operators had to give the government, via Colombian state oil firm Ecopetrol, half of their production. The new contracts, 28 years in length, lower the state's cut to 30 percent. Right now, 80 foreign energy companies are operating in Colombia, he said. Geologically speaking, Colombia is an attractive target for exploration and production companies because of its rich and mostly untapped oil and gas reserves. Moreno said Colombia has 33 billion barrels of oil equivalent and 7 trillion cubic feet of proved reserves in natural gas. But the most bedeviling problem for foreign oil companies is maintaining security for its workers and operations. Guerrillas fighting in Colombia's 37-year-old civil war have bombed pipelines and production facilities and kidnapped workers, adding significant costs and risks. For example, leftist rebels in April kidnapped 27 employees working for U.S. company Occidental Petroleum Corp. at a remote oil field. The Cano Limon pipeline Occidental operates has been bombed more than 100 times. Harken Energy Inc., a Houston-based oil company, in recent months said it was considering the ``timing'' of its Colombian operations, and last week said it planned to merge all of its foreign assets with internationally-focused operator. Pastrana has pushed hard to reach peace with the leftist guerrilla groups, which he sees -- along with the eradication of the nation's illegal drug trade -- as a key to attracting foreign investment to fund infrastructure improvements. ``There is still work to do. We are working hard to reach a peace settlement, a political solution with the main insurgency group, the FARC, which will eventually make situations in Colombia easier for private investors,'' Moreno said. FARC is the acronym formed by the Spanish name of Colombia's largest leftist guerrilla group. The leftist groups generally oppose Pastrana's plans. Pastrana's $7.5 billion Plan Colombia, a broad policy initiative that initially focuses on fighting drug production, also includes efforts to protect Colombia's energy infrastructure, Moreno said. Oil accounts for 35 percent of Colombia's exports, with coal making up 7 percent. Colombia is Latin America's fifth-largest oil exporter, and sends 85 percent of its crude to the U.S. Copyright 2001 Reuters A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] Killing without Consequences
-Caveat Lector- This story tells the sad tail of the lack of justice in our justice system these days. The federal police have a heavy hand and apparently can continue to use it indiscriminately. This whole issue makes me sick, and don't forget old trigger finger Horiuchi was at Waco too. On Fri, 15 June 2001, Peat wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 META content=MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300 name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#ffFONT size=2 DIVBRA href=http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman57.html;FONT size=3http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman57.html/FONT/ABRBRFONT size=3June 16, 2001BRBRKilling without ConsequencesBRby David DietemanBR/FONTA href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED];FONT size=3[EMAIL PROTECTED]/FONT/ABRBRFONT size=3Recently, the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled, 6-5, that theBRstate of Idaho could prosecute federal sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi forBRmanslaughter in the killing of Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge.BRBRHoriuchi shot Mrs. Weaver through the head at 200 yards with a 30-06 sniperBRrifle. She had a baby in her arms.BRBRAfter Mrs. Weaver was killed, federal agents taunted the surviving familyBRmembers.BRBRFederal agents, one must recall, were there to arrest Randy Weaver for whatBRthe Washington Post refers to as #8220;relatively minor weapons charges.#8221;BRBRIndeed. Weaver was charged with sawing one-half of an inch off the length ofBRa shotgun. At this point, one must question the Post#8217;s choice of words:BR#8220;relative#8221; as compared to what? The #8220;weapons charge#8221; which ultimately led toBRthe death of Vicki Weaver is objectively minor, unless the word #8220;minor#8221; isBRto lose part of its meaning. (And so we see how the mainstream mediaBRinsidiously sanitizes the news, giving perhaps half of the truth).BRBRDid I mention that Weaver sawed the hideously evil half-inch off the lengthBRof the shotgun at the request of a federal informant in the hire of theBRBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms?BRBRWeaver, by the way, had failed to appear in court because he had been givenBRthe wrong date for his hearing.BRBRThat justifies killing? Apparently it does in the eyes of some people, whoBRperhaps cannot imagine any human conduct which should not be subjected toBRstate control. In other words, there are some people whose notion of libertyBRis being allowed to do what the government tells you to do #8211; and if youBRdisobey, you die.BRBRAnd now the state of Idaho has decided that it will not exercise its rightBRto prosecute Lon Horiuchi.BRBRKilling without consequences.BRBRDid some federal lackey threaten to take away Idaho#8217;s highway funds? IsBRthere a cushy federal agency job in somebody#8217;s future? So far, no one isBRtalking.BRBRThe Washington Times adds that Boundary County Prosecutor BrettBRBenson, in a brief statement issued yesterday by his office, saidBRAgent Lon T. Horiuchi, a member of the FBI's hostage rescue team,BRwould not be tried in an Idaho court for the Aug. 22, 1992, death ofBRMrs. Weaver. The statement gave no reason for the decision.BRBRThis is more than a bit odd. After the state expends no small sum of moneyBRto take the case to a federal Court of Appeals, they decide to drop theBRcase.BRBRDisturbingly, one of the five judges who would deny Idaho the right toBRprosecute the sniper for the killing, Judge Michael Daly Hawkins, called theBRruling a #8220;grave disservice#8221; to federal law enforcement authorities #8220;who knewBRuntil now that if they performed their duties within the bounds of reasonBRand without malice they would be protected...and not subject to endlessBRjudicial second-guessing.#8221;BRBRWhat exactly is #8220;within the bounds of reason#8221; about shooting a woman with aBRbaby in the head from 200 yards? Are we to believe that the governmentBRtrained this sniper to kill from such a distance, and yet he could not tell,BRor did not have sufficient optical devices to discern, that his target was aBRwoman with a baby?BRBRThe majority opinion from the Ninth Circuit found that the sniper#8217;s shootingBRwas #8220;more akin to recklessness than reasonable doubt.#8221; Do we want toBRencourage reckless behavior by men with sniper rifles? If they work for theBRgovernment, apparently so.BRBRAs the Washington Times reports of the Ruby Ridge killing,BRBRActing under modified rules of engagement by FBI supervisors saying theBRsharpshooters #8220;could and should#8221; shoot any armed male, Mr. Horiuchi wasBRattempting to hit Weaver friend Kevin Harris when he shot Mrs. Weaver, 42,BRas she stood behind a cabin door. The same bullet also struck Mr. Harris asBRhe ran behind the door.BRBRAh, he couldn#8217;t see what was behind the door #8211; that is the excuse.BRBRBut of course, if any private citizen were to shoot at
Re: [CTRL] Aleisha's Stupidity (or Deliberate Terrorism) IsBeyondThePale
-Caveat Lector- I do not think eliminating attachments is a good idea since it is the only way that some information can be posted to the list. Caveat downloadee, as it were. Let us all be very careful what we download on this list as well as EVERYWHERE on the old WWW. On Mon, 16 April 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 4/16/01 7:09:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- On Mon, 16 Apr 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: Like I've said, I dunna know. But since a virus was delivered not in an attachment, stoping attachments would not help. Kris, my Norton Virus Checker stated that the virus was most definitely in the attachment to the email Saba sent. June Like I have said I am not a big computer guy and My experience is MACs and there is much bout IBMs and MS windows that I am very ignorant of. When the email named ? showed up in my box there was no attachment but in the body of the message there was a big patch of letters and numbers and whatnot. That is what I experienced in my OperatingSystem, I am sure others could be different. The Mac OS is different and not prone to viruses. I am loathe to stop attachments especially with the truncating on regular posts now. still will be some months but soon our own server hopefully will help out. Saba, will you agree to not send anymore attachments? Om K Om K A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] FCC Nixes FBI's Plan To Change Wiretap Law
-Caveat Lector- It seems that the FBI is more into making national policy than in the investigation of crime. Soon, no doubt they will want a hand in deciding who should be serving pizza to ensure the safety of our collective tummies. On Tue, 17 April 2001, radman wrote: -Caveat Lector- FCC Nixes FBI's Plan To Change Wiretap Law http://www.newsbytes.com/news/01/164541.html By Brian Krebs, Newsbytes WASHINGTON, D.C., U.S.A., 16 Apr 2001 The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) today denied an FBI request to change a federal eavesdropping statute, a move that would have forced telecom carriers to keep a tighter leash on employees who carry out court-ordered wiretaps. The FBI had asked the commission for "more effective personnel security obligations" at telecom companies to "ensure the trustworthiness of the private-company employees who have become increasingly responsible for implementing electronic surveillance." The additional security steps would have required carriers to maintain a list of personal information on employees who conduct wiretaps. Carrier employees would also have to sign nondisclosure agreements and agree to undergo thorough background checks by the FBI. The added rules also would have required carriers to report breaches of systems security within two hours. In justifying its refusal to implement the FBI's request, the FCC said most carriers already have adequate employee security measures in place. "Several carriers object to the suggestion they might not be responsible in controlling their own employees or that their employees might present security risks," the commission said. At issue is the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), a 1994 statute that required wire-line and wireless telephone companies to build law enforcement surveillance capabilities into their newer digital communications systems. In 1998, the FCC granted an FBI request to include a punch list of four additional eavesdropping capabilities, to keep up with changes in technology - most notably digital or wireless transmission modes, or features and services such as call forwarding, speed dialing and conference calling. Several privacy groups and telecom industry associations later sued to overturn the law. Last August, the Federal Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia ruled that in implementing the punch list requirements, the FCC did not adequately consider the privacy or cost implications of the requirements. The court overturned the punch list items and ordered the FCC to justify the new items in light of the privacy and cost concerns. The FCC solicited and received comments on both issues last December, but it has yet to issue its justification as ordered by the court. "They have whatever time they choose to take and come up with justification for costs and the privacy issue," said Michael Warren, former chief of the FBI's CALEA Implementation Bureau, and director of Telecommunications and Law Enforcement Associates, consulting firm. Warren said while the deadline for compliance with the punch list requirements had been set at Sept. 31, that date would almost certainly be pushed back. He noted that most companies have yet to fully comply with even the basic statutes required by CALEA, let alone those that have been overturned by an appeals court. "The good thing is they haven't imposed new, more burdensome requirements that in our view added nothing to the integrity of this whole process," said Michael Altschul, vice president and general counsel for the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association (CTIA). FCC officials were unavailable for comment on this story. But industry sources note that the punch list remand is being handled by the FCC's Wireless Bureau, which now has more deadline-oriented spectrum issues to resolve before even considering industry comments on the matter. Sources say the FCC could issue its revised rulemaking on the punch list items as early as this fall. To view the FCC release on this topic, visit: http://www.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2001/db0416/fcc01126.txt A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available
Re: [CTRL] New Flashlight Sees Through Doors As Well As Windows
-Caveat Lector- How good! The police always need more tools to do there job. First they got the infrared device and that allowed them to willy nilly invade anyones privacy and scope out people getting it on all in the name of cracking down on all the illicit pot growing (sheesh), now they got radar they can invade our homes with. I'm sure the Supreme Court will uphold it as OKEY DOKEY!!! Got to love them police where EVERYONE is guilty until proven dead. On Tue, 17 April 2001, radman wrote: -Caveat Lector- http://unisci.com/stories/20012/0416015.htm UniSci - Daily University Science News New Flashlight Sees Through Doors As Well As Windows April 16, 2001 By Jane M. Sanders Police officers serving a warrant or searching for a suspect hiding inside a building could soon have a new tool for protecting themselves and finding the "bad guy." A prototype device called the RADAR Flashlight, developed at the Georgia Tech Research Institute (GTRI), can detect a human's presence through doors and walls up to 8 inches thick. The device uses a narrow 16-degree radar beam and specialized signal processor to discern respiration and/or movement up to three meters behind a wall. The device can penetrate even heavy clothing to detect respiration and movements of as little as a few millimeters. "We believe the RADAR Flashlight potentially will be useful to police officers in ambush situations," says Gene Greneker, the GTRI principal research scientist who led the development of the device. " It is a force multiplier and a safety enhancement tool." The RADAR Flashlight is undergoing further modification and testing for the next six months. The Georgia Institute of Technology has filed a provisional patent for the device, which could become commercially available to law enforcement officials within a couple of years if the university licenses the technology to a manufacturer. With funding in 1998 from the National Institute of Justice (NIJ), a division of the U.S. Justice Department, Greneker and his team took the RADAR Flashlight from a bulky three-part prototype to a self-contained unit that weighs about 7 pounds. The NIJ tested the device last year at the National Law Enforcement Corrections Technology Center in Charleston, S.C., and suggested further modifications. Work on those changes is expected to begin this spring with additional funding from the NIJ. "We will be modifying the RADAR Flashlight based on what law enforcement officials told us from the tests," Greneker says. "For one thing, they said it makes too much noise when it locks onto a wall (to scan). Also, for use by SWAT teams, the RADAR Flashlight needs to be operated by remote control. So we plan to put the RADAR Flashlight on a tripod at least 25 feet away from a wall and steer it by remote control to the part of the wall we're interested in scanning." When these modifications are complete, the RADAR Flashlight will undergo more rigorous testing in various environmental conditions. In its current form, the RADAR Flashlight operates in the following manner: The user holds the device with a pistol-grip handle, pulls a trigger, and the device runs a 3-second self-test to verify that it is properly functioning. The user sees the results as a bar graph on a small LED display built into the device. Then the user presses the device against a wall, pulls the trigger, and within 3 seconds the system automatically spaces itself from the wall at a distance designed for best performance. The RADAR Flashlight's narrow radar beam sends out a pulse of electromagnetic energy, then detects the return signal, which is read by high-speed signal processing technology that quickly delivers bar-graph results to the user's display. As the person on the other side of the wall breathes, the bar-graph display rises and falls with a rhythmic response. Research that evolved into the RADAR Flashlight began at GTRI in the mid-1980s with the patenting of a frequency-modulated radar for remotely checking vital signs of soldiers wounded on the battlefield before risking medics' lives to save the injured. This early technology also was tested for its ability to monitor vital signs of soldiers clothed in chemical or biological warfare suits, without requiring them to risk contamination by removing the protective gear. Today, a technical challenge remains for researchers working on the RADAR Flashlight. "We have one problem," Greneker says. "This instrument is so sensitive to motion that if you don't hold it still enough, it will detect its own self-motion. If we can overcome this, it would be the Holy Grail, and
Re: [CTRL] FC: Epilogue: Federal worker fired over web map of Arctic caribou (fwd)
-Caveat Lector- Of course. ALL things boil down to "sides" after all and ones convictions color all of ones actions. No? On Tue, 17 April 2001, Yardbird wrote: -Caveat Lector- Remember Ian Thomas? He's the scientist who said he got fired by the Bush administration last month because his research into the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge was politically unpalatable. In a widely-distributed email message at the time, Thomas depicted himself as a sober researcher: "One of the biggest collections of maps online... certainly the biggest collection showing maps of biodiversity... a high-level political decision to set an example to other Federal scientists... I made no statement about what the maps might mean with regard to oil development of the refuge." A month later, Thomas is now showing what appear to be his true colors: He's an activist more interested in taking on the Bush administration than conducting sober research. His latest email appeal to supporters, attached below: "I promise to make very good use of any maps you send in the fight to save the refuge... make people more aware of the threat that oil drilling poses... also to support the Gwich'in Nation in their fight against oil drilling in the refuge." Now, Thomas may have been fired unjustly, and it may even be a good idea to bar all oil drilling in the refuge. But the story is not quite as forthright as it first seemed. Background: http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=caribou -Declan ** From: "Ian Thomas" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Declan McCullagh" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The Color of Choice: An Appeal to You to Make Maps! Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:10:09 -0400 Dear Friends and All Supporters of Freedom of Information! It has been almost a month since I was lost my job for putting a map up on the internet showing where baby caribou like to hang out in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Please see http://www.maptricks.com for details. I have been trying to think of ways to use my story to make people more aware of the threat that oil drilling poses to both the caribou and other Arctic wildlife and also to support the Gwich'in Nation in their fight against oil drilling in the refuge. So, I was thinking of a way to ask people to send me maps of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge when I came across the following amazing short story. I found it in "The Circle of Testimony" a wonderful collection of short stories on the Arctic Refuge, available for free online from http://www.worldashome.org It would be great to get maps from all ages and places but maps from kids would be awesome! Please forward this appeal! I promise to make very good use of any maps you send me in the fight to save the refuge and I will try my best to return any maps that you want back! Please write to me for further details at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you so much for your support! Ian Thomas mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] caribou maps website: http://www.maptricks.com --- The Color of Choice (by Sherry Simpson) From the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner,February 1,2001: "Alaska Senator Frank Murkowski searched briefly for a picture of ANWR in winter to counter more picturesque photographs used by other senators on the floor. Failing to quickly find the shot he sought, Murkowski improvised by holding up a blank white poster board. This, he said, is what ANWR's coastal plain looks like nine months out of the year." Find some white poster board. From its blankness scissor out the shape of the Arctic coastal plain. (Neatness counts.) It is easier at the bottom,where policymakers drew straight lines, right angles, gliding curves. The top, now that is tricky, because that is where sea and ice work against the land,where the ground is less solid,where things are changing. Hold this blankness in your hands. This shape represents 1.5 million acres. Go walk an acre before you return to your map. [snip --DBM] This time, avoid harsh, obvious colors. Search your box of crayons for subtle, rich shades,or combine pigments until you can conjure the Arctic is true aspect: Musk ox brown. Meta-sedimentary gray, Bearberry crimson, Caribou cream, Hulahula blue, Oxytropis yellow, Dryas gold, Jaeger black, Grayling silver, Polar bear ivory, Lichen green, ANWR white. Copy your map and mail it to those with failed imaginations, to those with good intentions but self-serving lives, to those who can say no to everyone but themselves. Buy lots of postage. Keep the original to remind yourself every day: This is how big an acre is. This is how many choices I have. This is how it feels to hold blankness in my hand. - Sherry Simpson --- Please Send Me Your Maps! I promise to make very good use of any maps you send in the fight to save the refuge and
Re: [CTRL] SF: The Mystery of Eugene Island 330
-Caveat Lector- If this theory turns out to be true then environmentalists would be very put out. It would mean that "fossil fuels" are not fossil fuels at all and that oil is a constantly renewing source of energy. Of course the effects of burning it seem to be just as bad regardless of origin. On Tue, 20 February 2001, MICHAEL SPITZER wrote: -Caveat Lector- [I read that this very well could have been known by oil companies for decades. --MS] Science Frontiers, No. 124, Jul-Aug 1999, p. 3 GEOLOGY The Mystery of Eugene Island 330 Eugene Island is a submerged mountain in the Gulf of Mexico about 80 miles off the Louisiana coast. The landscape of Eugene Island is riven with deep fissures and faults from which spew spontaneous belches of gas and oil. Up on the surface, a platform designated Eugene Island 330 began producing about 15,000 barrels of oil per day in the early 1970s. By 1989, the flow had dwindled to 4,000 barrels per day. Then, suddenly, production zoomed to 13,000 barrels. In addition, estimated reserves rocketed from 60 to 400 million barrels. Even more anomalous is the discovery that the geological age of today's oil is quite different from that recovered 10 years ago. What's going on under the Gulf of Mexico? It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that the oil reservoir at Eugene Island is rapidly refilling itself from "some continuous source miles below the earth's surface." In support of this surmise, analysis of seismic records revealed a deep fault which "was gushing oil like a garden hose." The deep-seated oil source at Eugene Island strongly supports T. Gold's theory about *The Deep Hot Biosphere*. Gold holds: that oil is actually a renewable, primordial syrup continually manufactured by the earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attacked by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs. The apparent deep-seated oil source at Eugene Island and Gold's ideas make petroleum engineers wonder about a similar situation at the seemingly inexhaustible oil fields of the Middle East. The Middle East has more than doubled its reserves in the past 20 years, despite half a century of intense exploitation and relatively few new discoveries. It would take a pretty big pile of dead dinosaurs and prehistoric plants to account for the estimated 660 billion barrels of oil in the region, notes Norman Hyne, a professor at the University of Tulsa in Oklahoma. "Off-the-wall theories often turn out to be right," he says. (Cooper, Christopher; "It's No Crude Joke: This Oil Field Grows Even as It's Tapped," *Wall Street Journal*, April 16, 1999. Cr. C. Casale.) = Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT FROM THE DESK OF: *Michael Spitzer* [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~ The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends = A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters
Re: [CTRL] Port Arthur survivor criticises Hanson's conspiracy theory
-Caveat Lector- Is this not the gut reaction of everyone who wants to trust in and believe in their government and that that very same government is out to protect and defend them. As much as people wish to deny the reality of government run and directed conspiracies to effect change in society it cannot be denied that it can and does occur. I am not saying that it is true in this case but to blindly think that mere death and atrocity would stop the people in power from doing a thing in order to achieve an end that they viewed to be important is to ignore history. After all governments conduct war, espionage, and other things that produce devastation and death. One cannot just assume that good old government is filled with just and good natured people that would just put a stop to it all. On Wed, 21 February 2001, Kelly wrote: -Caveat Lector- (from The Age (Melbourne) 21.2.01) Port Arthur survivor criticises Hanson's conspiracy theory Source: AAP|Published: Wednesday February 21, 11:55 AM A survivor of the Port Arthur massacre today attacked One Nation for suggesting the tragedy was a conspiracy aimed at promoting gun control. One Nation leader Pauline Hanson said some Australians had doubts about the 1996 shootings by Martin Bryant, which left 35 people dead in the Tasmanian tourist town. "I don't know, I wasn't there," Ms Hanson said. "But a lot of Australians have asked this question and it's on a lot of people's minds." Ms Hanson's comments followed a One Nation newsletter which suggested the murder spree was a conspiracy designed to allow the government to crack down on gun ownership. Gay Fidler, who played dead in the Broad Arrow Cafe while Bryant was half a metre away, was angered by Ms Hanson's comments. "I just can't have anything to do with this conspiracy, I really can't," Ms Fidler told radio 3AW. "I suspect Pauline may have something in common with Martin Bryant and that is he has the IQ of an 11-year-old. I think she might be going down the same road somehow." She said anyone who saw the news on the day, the trial or the aftermath could not suggest such a conspiracy. "To even be able to ask that question ... I just can't understand anybody who could. It affected so many lives," Ms Fidler said. "Here it is five years later and it's still being brought up politically, sadly, and here we are listening to all this again. "Hopefully this will go against her and wake up a few people who want to follow her. Surely, they can't after this." Yesterday, Queensland Senator Ron Boswell cited One Nation's tacit support to the conspiracy theories as just one reason why he could not give the party preferences over Labor. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Re: [CTRL] James Shelby Downard and Mason-Kennedy connection
-Caveat Lector- There is quite a bit of stuff floating about regarding the Kennedy assassination. The Masons inevitably pop up from time to time. I think a lot of what he postulates is pretty far fetched to say the least BUT some of it is eerie and could have some truth to it. BUT, what it all boils down to in this issue is that there is TOO MUCH information and the waters have been SO muddied that the real truth will never be fully known. And that is the desired result by those who had a hand in it. On Thu, 25 January 2001, PM Kansan1225 wrote: -Caveat Lector- Patrick Stinson wrote: Subject: James Shelby Downard and Mason-Kennedy Connection From: "Patrick Stinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1/25/01 4:29 AM Central Standard Time Message-id: deTb6.39459$[EMAIL PROTECTED] I've only just discovered this group within the past few days and I've found myself consistently fascinated by the tenor of discussions here. I'd be curious to read some of your comments on the Kennedy-Masonic connection as postulated by James Shelby Downard (among others). If any of you are interested in engaging in a discussion please reply here. Thanks. patrick I have been investigating the Conspiracy and conspiracy theories for about eleven years. James Shelby Downard was the most reliable conspiracy writer I have read. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] How it REALLY works: Best example EVER ! Why Gore defended Bush in the Senate.
-Caveat Lector- This has got to be one of the most cogent posts in quite some time which accurately paints the picture of what is really happening in the political system. They all are backslappers of each other by necessity. If convictions were involved then Gore would have contest the entire state in the beginning (he didn't which showed that he was not really serious and not basing his actions on "convictions" of his own) instead of just a place here and there. If convictions were involved he would have continued to fight even though the Supreme Court ruled against him. They, as the rulers behind the scenes all must support the system in which they rely on for their position and power. Gore would never go outside the lines in that or he would threaten his own ascendancy as well as countless other elite leaders, movers and shakers in the country. Do you think it would be allowed to happen? Yeah right. This just goes to show, ONCE and hopefully FOR ALL, that the whole contested election business, and the fiasco in Florida was just a sham for a purpose, otherwise it would never have happened in the first place, the system runs too well to be disrupted except by design. On Sun, 07 January 2001, Nurev Ind Research wrote: -Caveat Lector- Well DUH??? Why would anybody expect something different? THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS. They are BOTH part of our system of Plutocratic rule. The election was merely a contest for which gang of Plutocrats gets their man into the White House. IT IS NOT GORE'S JOB TO THREATEN THIS SYSTEM! If he did that, he would need to look for another line of work. He IS one of the Elites. It's HIS system that he is protecting. == MichaelP wrote: The Dems and their candidate have clear responsibility for NOT even trying to recover a stolen election. Recovering the stolen election would put the whole system under scrutiny, and ultimately leave it open to democratic change. THIS IS DANGEROUS AND UNACCEPTABLE TO OUR RULING ELITES. It has cost them much time and money to get our political system just right. Just the way it is. They would not gladly suffer anyone mucking about with it. I would also point out that it was the Blacks in the House of Reps who have the audacity to stir things up. But we must remember that those are merely the representatives of the people. The Founding Finaglers made sure that the most democratic institution was the weakest. On the other hand, Senators and Justices, once elected or appointed, are untouchable by the citizenry. Vice President (Senator) Gore did his job. I strongly urge anybody reading this, to see the video of what transpired. That picture is worth a thousand words. Joshua2 They will come round begging for forgiveness in a year or two, Michael agence france presse Sunday, January 7 4:03 AM SGT Congress confirms Bush victory after contentious session WASHINGTON, Jan 6 (AFP) - George W. Bush was officially declared winner of the 2000 US presidential election Saturday after Electoral College votes were counted and certified by Congress in a contentious session featuring a walkout by black lawmakers. Democratic Vice President Al Gore, who won a majority of the popular vote in the bitterly contested November 7 election, announced the result in his capacity as US Senate president, giving Bush 271 electoral votes to his 266, with one abstention. Bush's running mate Dick Cheney was declared vice president-elect by the same number of votes over Democrat Joe Lieberman. "I am honored," Bush said in Texas as the lawmakers gathered. "It's a humbling experience to become the president of this great land. And I want to reiterate what I said before: I'm going to be the president of everybody, whether they supported me or not. And people need to know that; people need to know that this is going to be an administration that will make decisions on what's best for America." The 538 electoral votes were cast December 18 in the 50 state capitals and the District of Columbia, the federal capital. Each state's vote was read and counted in alphabetical order in the joint session of Congress. A dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus walked out of the mostly-empty House chamber as the votes were tallied after * Gore rejected their contest to the 25 electoral votes from the southeastern state of Florida. * [highlighted by me - J2] Presidential ballots in that state from the November 7 election were at the center of more than a month of bitter disputes over hand recounting of those which could not be read by voting machines. Gore was forced to concede defeat when the US Supreme Court barred recounting of the disputed ballots. Ironically, it was Gore who overruled challenges to the contested vote in Florida raised by
Re: [CTRL] Space Warfare j2
-Caveat Lector- Perhaps you are right and this is not inevitable, but as fo probability I'd say you are on the losing end, since it seems to me that it is HIGHLY probable that we already deploy weapons into space on some level and have been for some time. In fact it is more probable that we do than that we do not. Whether it would continue or escalate is a matter of varying probability, but I think this is one that is probably already moot. On Sun, 07 January 2001, Nurev Ind Research wrote: -Caveat Lector- John Cone wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message this date, Nurev writes: SPACE MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE MILITARIZED!!! BY ANYONE!!! Nurev _ Nakano replies: During World War I, in the early days of military aviation, airplanes were first used for observation and they were not armed. The pilots for the two sides would actually wave to each other as they flew around to view and photograph the lines of defense and deployments. Then the airmen began carrying pistols and rifles in their airplanes and they would take shots at the enemy aircraft. A little later, they began carrying bombs (some weighing up to 25 pounds), and hand dropping them on the enemy troops below. It wasn't long before airplanes became weapons of war. In the early days of the "Space Age", satellites were used for observation. Early manned spacecraft were not armed Bottom line is this: The militarization of space is already well underway and it will accelerate. It is inevitable. Regards Nakano Only death is inevetable. Everything else has varying degrees of likelyhood. Weapons in space are not inevetable. But they would sure like you to think so. J2 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Marrs-Is someone preventing our exploration of Mars?
-Caveat Lector- A healthy scepticism is certainly warranted in all things. But one surely stretches credulity in prescribing all of the Mars related mishaps to "accident". It seems to me that it is something which should be investigated further if nothing else. I am inclined to believe that anything uncovered is apt to be of Human design and that no aliens are involved, but hey, I could be wrong too. On Sun, 31 December 2000, Johannes Schmidt III wrote: -Caveat Lector- I am fairly sceptical about BEMs but I also have my suspicions. Remember how there was a rash of mysterious meteorite strikes and satellite problems around the time of the Mars explorer? Maybe they little green men are fighting back, but the governments are covering it up sucessfully? On Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:22:47 -0800 Nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Christians and Conspiracy Theory
-Caveat Lector- Well, I certainly agree. Even accepting the Christian story one must assume that the Devil is the ruler of the current age, and that he is the "father of lies" and a master of deception. Therefore, how is it that one can say, from a Christian perspective, that there are no conspiracies?? It seems to me that the "old dragon" Satan would have them burgeoning everywhere? No? Of course I am not inclined to believe that Satan is doing anything, but humans surely are, and it is in their nature to be deceptive, secretive, and conspiring. On Mon, 01 January 2001, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- Howdy Dupe, I guess you will believe in anything. Just have some preacher man say it, dress it up with a few quotes and its down the road, taking your sorry ass with it. what an easy way to control you. Naw, conspiracy theory aren't true, the bible tells me so. What a crock. Go peddle your bs, elsewhere, been there done that. Seen enough of hypoccrites. Om K In a message dated 12/31/00 10:23:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -Caveat Lector- http://www.acts17-11.com/conspire.html From CBNnow web-based E-mail, part of the growing CBNnow web presence. CBNnow, your source for news, information, and inspiration in the new millenium. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Dark Star THEORY
-Caveat Lector- There are certain renegade cosmologists who have propounded this theory before. I believe that it is one which merits consideration given the mythological symbology of ancient civilizations and the actual fact of astronomy as we have observed. Velikovsky had some good points, and many realized it too. This body has also been referred to as Nemesis. On Thu, 07 December 2000, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaFONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"http://members.madasafish.com/~andy3751/ BR BRBelow the following abstract may be found a selection of papers about the BRDark Star Theory. In a nut-shell, this theory postulates that the Sumerian BRcivilisation's description of a planet in an elliptical orbit around the Sun BRhas a basis in reality. Certain astronomical papers have been published BRpin-pointing its presence in the Oort Cloud. Contrary to the previously held BRbeliefs that Nibiru is a terrestrial world, it can be shown that it is, in BRfact, a failed star, known as a brown dwarf. This Dark Companion of the Sun BRhas its own planetary system, home to the 'gods' of the ancient world. BRBuilding upon the scientific and mythological foundations of the Dark Star BRTheory, I have offered detailed, and radical, new evidence that its last BRappearance in the planetary solar system was in the guise of the Messianic BRStar, heralding the advent of Christ. BR/FONTFONT COLOR="#ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"BUAbstract/B/U BR/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"Although the mythologies of Greece and Egypt are well known to most, the BRremarkable level of scientific understanding of the world's first BRcivilisation, in Sumer, is less well appreciated. Their scientific knowledge BRof astronomy, cloaked in the language of myth, included testimony of a BRcelestial entity orbiting the Sun which still remains unknown to our BRastronomers. Until recently. The Sumerians described a fiery 'planet' which BRfollows an elliptical orbit around the Sun, remaining hidden to observers on BREarth for millennia at a time. It is currently at its furthest point from us BRbut, even at the incredible distances involved, our scientists are now BRcapable of detecting its presence. Its vast size causes comet orbit BRperturbations which have been analysed thoroughly by two independent BRastronomers, Drs. Murray and Matese. Its approximate location, size and BRdistance are now known, yet it has eluded our telescopes. But it is being BRhunted down, and it may simply be a matter of time before the theoretical BRbasis for its existence is confirmed. Unbelievably, we appear to be living BRin a bizarre binary star system. The data provided by the astronomers matches BRthe mythology handed down to us from the Sumerians Iexactly./I But this has BRbeen missed by many because of their incorrect understanding of Nibiru's BRnature. The case for the 12th Planet has been made through the remarkable BRscholarship of Zecharia Sitchin, but our understanding of the nature of stars BRand planets, and what lies in between, has changed greatly since publication BRof his thesis in 1976. He could not have realised that the Sumerians were BRcorrect when describing a 'planet' which had many star-like properties. This BRmythical entity isn't a planet in the conventional sense, but a failed star BRknown as a 'brown dwarf'. Further widely-held assumptions about the timing of BRNibiru's occasional perihelion passages between Mars and Jupiter are BRerroneous. Its orbital period is variable, with the periodicity of 3600 BRyears serving only as a mathematical and religious archetypal fit. Nibiru BRdid not appear at the time of the Exodus, but in 3760 BC, at the start of the BRNippurian calendar and Hebrew count of years, as Sitchin initially argued. I BRcan now show that Nibiru last appeared in 25 AD. The 12th Planet is the BRMessianic Star, and its appearance was noted by the famous Roman writer, BRSeneca. Astronomers, anxious to resolve the mystery of Seneca's anomalous BRdescription of this star, have taken on face value his assumption that this BR'piercing red' star was Sirius itself. Yet it couldn't have been, as Sirius BRis white. However, his testimony fits the predictions of the Dark Star BRTheory precisely. The brightness of Nibiru at perihelion in Canis Major BRoutshone the brightest star in our skies. Its bright red countenance spurred BRSeneca to write his treatise on celestial fiery phenomena, which in turn led BRto an ancient astronomical tradition known as the 'red' Sirius anomaly. The BRappearance of the Dark Star near Sirius occurred prior to the disappearance BRof the Duat below the horizon. As such, most of Nibiru's short perihelion BRpassage went unseen on Earth. But its initial birth in the sky, as Horus BRborn from Isis, was
Re: [CTRL] Peltier
-Caveat Lector- Don't expect him to ever be let go. He is another James Earl Ray. It is indicative of the Federalist system and the wacko activity of Law Enforcement (LOL) agencies in the carrying out of their duties to the detriment of us all. He was set up and framed and they will NEVER EVER admit it and free him. On Thu, 14 December 2000, William Shannon wrote: HTMLFONT FACE=arial,helveticaFONT SIZE=5 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0" BR/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=3 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"BThe case of Leonard Peltier: notorious frame-up of Native American activist BRreturns to public spotlight/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=5 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0" BR BR/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0"/BBy Cory Johnson BR14 December 2000/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0" BR/FONTFONT COLOR="#00" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"Earlier this fall, in a downtown Toronto office, a Native American woman BRrecanted her 1976 testimony that served as the basis for extraditing American BRIndian Movement (AIM) activist Leonard Peltier from Canada to the United BRStates. BRPeltier had been present on June 26, 1975 near Oglala on South Dakota's Pine BRRidge Indian reservation when a fire-fight erupted between Indians and two BRFBI agents who died in the fighting. The FBI launched the largest manhunt in BRits history to capture the small group of Indians involved. BRPeltier ultimately escaped to Canada, secure in the thought he was out of the BRvindictive reach of the FBI. It was at that point the US government produced BRaffidavits that gave the Canadian government the excuse to extradite Peltier. BRA year later in a Fargo, North Dakota courtroom Peltier was subjected to a BRtravesty of justice when he was found guilty of murder for the deaths of the BRtwo FBI agents. He was sentenced to two consecutive life terms and is serving BRtime in Leavenworth Penitentiary in Kansas. BRSome 25 years later, Myrtle Poor Bear, choked with emotion, declared, â#8364;I was BRforced into this, and I feel very awful. I just wish that Leonard Peltier BRwill get out of prison.â#8364; BRPoor Bear, now 48, related how FBI agents came to her shortly after the June BR26, 1975 shoot-out. On more than one occasion she was taken away and BRsequestered in hotel rooms for days or even weeks. FBI agents subjected her BRto a steady barrage of threats aimed at pressuring her into signing BRaffidavits that would implicate Peltier, whom she had never known, in the BRdeaths of FBI agents Ray Williams and Jack Coler. BRIn testimony reprinted in the Toronto IGlobe and Mail/I, Poor Bear stated, â#8364;They BRtold me they were going to take my child away from me. They told me they were BRgoing to get me for conspiracy, and I would face 15 years in prison if I BRdidn't co-operate. They said they had witnesses who placed me at the scene.â#8364; BRAccording to Poor Bear, what ultimately led her to capitulate was a grisly BRdisplay engineered by FBI agents. She was shown autopsy pictures of Anna Mae BRAquash. Aquash, an Indian activist, had been found on the reservation with a BRbullet fired into the back of her skull. Supposedly for identification BRpurposes, Aquash's hands were sawed off and sent to FBI labs. These pictures BRwere shown to Poor Bear as well. BRâ#8364;They showed me certain parts of her body that were decomposed. They said BRthat's how I was going to end up if I didn't co-operate with them. They said BRthey could kill me and get away with it. I was very scared. I got to a point BRwhere I believed they would do it.â#8364; BRMyrtle Poor Bear's first affidavit is dated February 19, 1976. In it, she BRclaimed to be Peltier's girlfriend but made no claim to being at the scene BRwhen the FBI agents were killed. Four days later a new affidavit was BRproduced. This one was substantially the same, except it now claimed that BRPoor Bear had been present at the scene and saw Peltier shoot the agents. A BRthird affidavit, dated March 31, 1976, embellished upon the second with BRgreater detail. BRThe first affidavit was illegally withheld from Peltier's attorneys and the BRcourt during his extradition trial in Vancouver. When later discovered, an BRargument erupted over whether Canadian authorities might have been aware of BRit before or during the proceedings. BRThe recent hearing in Toronto is an attempt by the Leonard Peltier Defense BRCommittee to get Myrtle Poor Bear's testimony on record. The IGlobe and Mail/I BRdescribed the hearing as â#8364;unique.â#8364; It was presided over by former Quebec BRCourt of Appeal Judge Fred Kaufman, a â#8364;commissioner of several high profile BRinquiries,â#8364; according to the IGlobe and Mail/I. Former federal prosecutor Scott BRFenton and Michael Code, a onetime assistant deputy
[CTRL] Final comments on election farce (maybe)
-Caveat Lector- Forgive my recent absence, but since there is such an air of non-chalance and indifference I doubt anyone noticed. Anyway it seems the mess is over, what with Gore conceding and Bush named as President elect. It makes me wonder at how this whole thing went down and exactly what the stakes were. I believe that the new election system and computer voting will be promoted whole hog. Gore must have deliberately shot himself in the foot what with the contesting of certain areas and not the whole state. Part of the plan maybe. Ironically, given the circumstances I believe the Supreme court ruled correctly on the issue presented to it when it overturned the Fla. decision. It is truly a shame that we even had to choose between these two men(?) and that we will have to deal with the new Imperial nation of Bush, another Reagan with others running the show for him and old boys slapping backs and loving it, and us returning to the stone age. Gore would have offered us nothing better with his arrogant eastern establishment mentality of I deserve this and I am better than you and you NEED me. Dig in folks it only get worse from here, and that would be true no matter which one of them won. "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] American Jew COCKSUCKERS
-Caveat Lector- Just great. More illiterate diatribes devoid of any substance. Take your bullshit and peddle it elsewhere we have no time for you here. You only succeed in making yourself look like an ass. On Sun, 03 December 2000, IAM APOLLYON wrote: -Caveat Lector- Meerican swill always sucjk JEW COCKS. Howard Sterrn \is King of Merica,,, FILTHY FILTHY FILTYH lijke ISRRAEL, cocksucejrr shoyt bationmurdersesr anmsd asshiolefdicujkers. Like VATICUNT suckwers of Jowew COCKm who like smeerring SHIT in fgace of VIRIN MARY FOR USA FILTH LIKE HOWARD STERN and LIEBERSHIT. Apolluyyeeoommmskwe!!! _ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: [NA] Smoking guns! And -- The Ransom Scenario]
-Caveat Lector- This message, of course, hits on the point that I made about this farcical jamboree. The idea is for there to be more centralization, and ultimately more control and to move to a standardized system of computer voting, where bigger numbers (more people will vote thinking it is SO important) can be more easily manipulated and the chosen successor put into office in just the right scenario. On Tue, 14 November 2000, mirage wrote: -Caveat Lector- Original Message Subject: [NA] Smoking guns! And -- The ÒRansomÓ Scenario Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 03:01:34 -0800 From: "Jim Condit Jr." [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." attributed to Communist Tyrant Josef Stalin November 13, 2000 NA (Network America) e-wire Smoking guns! And -- The Ransom Scenario This is a MUST read Network America e-wire. One of the clear gambits of the 5 Big TV Networks is that they are doing an expose of the criminal, crooked computerized voting systems they have been protecting for the last 20 to 25 years, -- as a Prelude to pushing the country into the new computer systems that can be manipulated from a central location by satellite and ultimately to totally UNVERIFIABLE internet voting. Many times a day it is being said on the Controlled News Media: No one can ever think again that their vote doesnt count. Or Well this election has proved once and for all that every vote counts. This, in our judgement, was exactly the reaction the networks intended to induce when they called Gore in Florida, -- then retracted, -- then called Bush the winner in Florida, -- then retracted. This, in my judgement, was not just spontaneous election night mayhem. This was pre-programmed, both with regard to what Voter News Service handed the Networks to read on air, and with regard to what the computers had been programmed to do. The contrived confusion in the aftermath created the impression that the networks couldnt call results in such a free and close election. We are supposed to forget that this is exactly what they have done for the last 25 years, within minutes of when the polls closed, with virtually 100% accuracy WHEN COMPUTERS AND MACHINES COUNTED THE VOTES. This contrived, election night spontaneity was meant, as one objective, to squelch talk of votescam, known by now to a tiny put important percentage of Americans, and to counter the feeling of the overwhelming majority of Americans that elections are meaningless, and there is no sense in voting. The contrived confusion also was used by the Controlled Big Media to do a limited expose on how unreliable, absurd, and open to fraud are the punch card systems being used by much of the country. As an indication of how widespread is such punch card use, in the Cincinnati Enquirer on Sunday Nov. 12th, 2000 --- Howard Wilkenson wrote that 70% of the citizens in Ohio vote on the absurd punch card system. Incidentally, words like chad have been known to votefraud investigators for 20 years. Yet CNN announced at 6:42 PM on Nov. 11 that a new political term CHAD had entered the national vocabulary. Yes, its only entering the NATIONAL vocabulary now because the Big Media has been covering up the truth about punch card computerized systems. The Big Media and Big Politicians of both major parties have acted UNTIL NOW as if anyone who brought up the problems with the punch card system was touched in the heard, crazy, paranoid, conspiracy minded, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Furthermore, in 1985, we at Citizens for a Fair Vote Count, thanks to a public service lawsuit led by my Father, obtained from Judge Richard Niehaus (of Cincinnati, Ohio) a ruling that the punch card system used in Hamilton County had no safeguards to prevent the computers from being programmed to distort the election results. This decision was suppressed by the News Media, and then overturned by a crooked Appeals Court. The same punch card system is in use in Cincinnati today. In 1985, in conjunction with that lawsuit, Judge Niehaus granted us a court order to observe the vote tabulating process in Cincinnati. It was then we called the Colliers into Cincinnati, and they caught on film women pulling chad from punch card ballots on election night, after the polls closed, at election headquarters. (This film was shown at our recent CFVC convention and it is on our video tapes, with full explanation, now available at votefraud.org in the bookstore.) This story is also told in the chapter called, Strange Bedfellows in Votescam: The Stealing of America by Jim Ken Collier. The Colliers had gotten similar film footage in Miami, Florida in 1982 where League of Women Voters members waved and identified themselves on camera as they used sharp styluses to punch chad out of
[CTRL] The REAL conspiracy behind the election farce
-Caveat Lector- It is my considered opinion that this election is being manipulated and engineered for various reasons BUT that chief among them are these: 1) To get people to think that there votes are important and that THEY decide who is elected to office. 2) End apathy at the polls so that MORE people will vote, creating larger numbers which are more easily manipulated. 3) Get people to go for direct computer voting and "instant" tabulation to "avoid" error and end deadlocks and confusion. Mark my words if this doesn't start to come out in the weeks ahead more and more. "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Vices are not Crimes
-Caveat Lector- I guess some would call it a Libertarian viewpoint. But in my opinion it is just common sense. If I want to do harm to me, and it does not harm you or your property then how can any external agency (ie; Government) legislate against it, or even label it a crime? On Tue, 17 October 2000, Mark McHugh wrote: "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Cocaine, conspiracy theories and the CIA in Central America...A load of .....
-Caveat Lector- There has been talk of PBS being a shill for the CIA and other Old Boy Network organizations and it seems that there might be some truth to it. One other GOOD note is that when such effort is made to refute something there is usually something they are wanting to hide. In most instances they just ignore it and hope it goes away. This is an issue that hopefully will not "just go away". On Mon, 09 October 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- from: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/cia.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/cia.html" frontline: drug wars: special reports: cocaine, /A - Cocaine, conspiracy theories and the CIA in Central America Since its creation in 1947 under President Harry Truman, the CIA has been credited with a number of far-fetched operations. While some were proven - the infamous LSD mind-control experiments of the 1950s - others, like the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the crash of the Savings and Loans industry, have little or no merit. In 1996 the agency was accused of being a crack dealer. A series of expose articles in the San Jose Mercury-News by reporter Gary Webb told tales of a drug triangle during the 1980s that linked CIA officials in Central America, a San Francisco drug ring and a Los Angeles drug dealer. According to the stories, the CIA and its operatives used crack cocaine--sold via the Los Angeles African-American community--to raise millions to support the agency's clandestine operations in Central America. The CIA's suspect past made the sensational articles an easy sell. Talk radio switchboards lit up, as did African-American leaders like U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Los Angeles, who pointed to Webb's articles as proof of a mastermind plot to destroy inner-city black America. One of the people who was accused in the San Jose Mercury-News of being in the midst of the CIA cocaine conspiracy is one of the most respected, now retired, veteran D.E.A. agents, Robert "Bobby" Nieves. "You have to understand Central America at that time was a haven for the conspiracy theorists. Christic Institute, people like Gary Webb, others down there, looking to dig up some story for political advantage," Nieves said. "No sexier story than to create the notion in people's minds that these people are drug traffickers." But in the weeks following publication, Webb's peers doubted the merit of the articles. Fellow journalists at the Washington Post, New York Times and Webb's own editor accused him of blowing a few truths up into a massive conspiracy. Amongst Webb's fundamental problems was his implication that the CIA lit the crack cocaine fuse. It was conspiracy theory: a neat presentation of reality that simply didn't jibe with real life. Webb later agreed in an interview that there is no hard evidence that the CIA as an institution or any of its agent-employees carried out or profited from drug trafficking. Still, the fantastic story of the CIA injecting crack into ghettos had taken hold. In response to the public outcry following Webb's allegations--which were ultimately published in book form under the title Dark Alliance--the CIA conducted an internal investigation of its role in Central America related to the drug trade. Frederick Hitz, as the CIA Inspector General-- an independent watchdog approved by Congress--conducted the investigation. In October 1998, the CIA released a declassified version of Hitz's two-volume report. The IG's report cleared the CIA of complicity with the inner-city crack cocaine trade. It refuted charges that CIA officials knew that their Nicaraguan allies were dealing drugs. But, the report said that the CIA, in a number of cases, didn't bother to look into allegations about narcotics And the Hitz report describes how there was little or no direction for CIA operatives when confronted by the rampant traffic in drugs in Central American during the 1980s. What follows is a closer look at the Hitz report, drawing on interviews with Frederick Hitz and others interviewed for FRONTLINE's "Drug Wars" series. When the Marxist Sandinistas overthrew the government of longtime dictator Anastasio Somoza in 1979, U.S. approval soured when it became clear that the new regime saw itself as a satellite of Cuba, if not the Soviet Union. When Ronald Reagan became president soon after, he quietly began sending aid to those fighting the Marxist government. They were known as the Nicaraguan Resistance, or more simply, the Contras. As with Burma, Laos and Afghanistan before it -- where the U.S. had helped fight wars -- Nicaragua had a narcotics trade--a fact which was brought to the CIA's attention while the Contra effort was barely off the ground. In 1981 members of the Nicaraguan Revolutionary Democratic Alliance (ADREN) were working alongside CIA officers to overthrow the new
Re: [CTRL] Lizard People Crap was ....Satanisme in the Vatican
-Caveat Lector- By its very nature the "recovered" memories of ritual abuse survivors should be suspect. It is apparent that there is something going on which needs to be exposed, but the idea of shapeshifting lizards and alien, as well as other "entities" is, in my opinion, a bunch of hooey, as Samantha states here. Whether memories are implanted in order to cover up for those involved or just to sow confusion and cause credibility problems the end is the same, the stories sound rediculous when they go down this road. On Tue, 10 October 2000, "Samantha L." wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 10/10/00 2:38:34 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But the sensation is the claim of secret satanic mass being conducted in the Vatican, where particpants wear a sort of Ku Klux Klan robe, and are naked under that. This is similar to the satanic shapeshifter ceremonies David Icke has reported in "The Biggest Secret." I've had personal contact with about twenty survivors of satanic ritual abuse, long-term internet contact with 300 or more, and read every book by survivors and therapists I've been able to find and/or afford. I've never heard shape-shifting accounts by any survivor except one - Cathy O'Brien in "Trance-formation of America." It's already been established that Mark what's-his-name is a dubious intel-connected character at best. I've heard accounts of strange spiritual manifestations that to survivors are often only explainable in terms of demons or disembodies spirits. No Shape-Shifting Lizard People accounts yet. I think this whole shape-shifting lizard crap trivializes the very real mind-boggling torture that is actually occurring out there. It takes the focus off the very human events that are occurring and takes the focus off the very real victims. It creates a carnival atmosphere around grave occurances, which is probably exactly what it is intended to do. People hear Icke's shape-shifting reptilian stories, giggle, and then dismiss the whole phenomenon of ritualized torture of children out of hand. This sounds like Standard Psyop Disinfo Rule # 2. Samantha A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL]
Re: [CTRL] Lizard People Crap was ....Satanisme in the Vatican
-Caveat Lector- Interesting theory that Bill. Could it be that when he says they are "Lizards" it is a metaphor used to include them all in one group and that he dare not name it? I don't know, I just think he is a sensationalist and much of his stuff is a bunch of crap. On Tue, 10 October 2000, William Shannon wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 10/10/00 6:44:09 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: People hear Icke's shape-shifting reptilian stories, giggle, and then dismiss the whole phenomenon of ritualized torture of children out of hand. This sounds like Standard Psyop Disinfo I believe it's included in his works to cause exactly the response you claim...his books are chock full of much serious scholarship...so much so in fact that he could be considered a threat by the powers that (in secret) be...by including this theory he makes himself look silly to those who are too lazy or closed-minded to look further and thereby takes some heat off himself. I don't think he wants to end up another Danny Casalaro or Jim Keith! Bill. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Lizard People Crap was ....Satanisme in the Vatican
-Caveat Lector- I believe Kris has a better take on this. Just as I believe that if people really see a physical Lizard being or an alien for that matter it is FAKE. Most of the time it is probably an induced memory and an experience, not a real event. It is always done to subvert and destroy credibility. On Tue, 10 October 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 10/10/00 5:36:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From what I gather out there, the lizard thing just ain't happening. MHO, is that is a meme of mudding, confusion and deflection and when done at all it is electronical illusion aided with drugs and other "ritual trappings" of "magic.". Om K A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Occult within covert groups?
-Caveat Lector- Certainly Malachi Martin has written about this very thing within the RC church. I believe that there may be something to it, but a lack of evidence means that we should at least tread catrefully. In fact this may be an instance when the hierarchy, or certain members of it are the only ones who are involved, just like it is alleged about the Masons. On Fri, 06 October 2000, "Samantha L." wrote: -Caveat Lector- There could very well be a connection between the RC Jesuits and the practitioners of satanic ritual abuse. I consider this RC Jesuit stuff - that I've only been made aware of recently - as a new lead. Someone close to me is a survivor of satanic ritual abuse and was raised in a strict RC home. The father was in the Knights of Columbus. I assumed the devout RC activity was a cover for the satanism, but the RC Church is pretty kinky. I'm keeping an open mind. Samantha In a message dated 10/3/00 6:35:14 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Define "Occult" and "Satanist" Some would, for example suggest that such terms could be applied to Roman Catholicism, and the RC Jesuits who enact their "Spiritual Exercises." This religio-political organization has consorted with, been involved with, and necessarily influenced Intel Orgs for CENTURIES! A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Lubavitcher reveals why Christians are evil
-Caveat Lector- Don't you think a "tit-for-tat" approach is the only one that is justified in this discussion. No group of people or religious philosophy has a corner of wanting to "run the world" or get power for themselves and their own group. And just what do you mean that jews have a "particularly jewish" way of doing the things that they do. It sounds like you are the one who has a problem, and it is with the Jews. On Sat, 07 October 2000, Justine Blake wrote: -Caveat Lector- I have a question here. In reading the dialog below, I notice that (is it "tenorlove"?) whenever something negative is said about the jews, tenorlove is very quick to point out the similarities with the Christians, Islams, Buddhists, etc, i.e. the "tit-for-tat" thing. BUT otherwise, tenorlove has posted plain old pro-jewish propaganda about how superior the jews are to all religions, as long as no one is saying anything to the contrary. This jewish idea of the superiority of the jews, and their racist behavior of separating themselves from the unklean Gentiles, is I suppose the foremost reason why the highly intelligent and verbose Michael J. Hoffman looks deeper into the underlying jewish babylonian mind. Given the propensity of the jews to seek their every advantage in all things in the particularly jewish way jews have of doing this, and what they believe about the unklean Gentiles, I think we do need people like Michael J. Hoffman and many, many others, if only in order to counteract the jewish wish to kontrol the world, if given half a chance, and enrich themselves ever more. Justine I stand by my interpretation of the site as a piece of anti-Semitic disinformation, and a badly written one at that.. Schneerson died in 1994, and as of today, still has not risen.. kinda puts the kabosh on any claim of him being the Messiah. Jewish "God" and His "Laws" must be fairly impotent since human civilization is now largely founded upon The New Testament, via Anglo-Protestant USA, Does this include China, Japan, France, Italy, Greece, etc., or are they not civilizations? of Judaism, not Christianity? Judaic law, talmudic and otherwise, is perfect? The Jewish laws are set down in the Torah, also known as the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses, to Christians. The Talmud is non-binding rabbinical commentary. lived just over the next hill? Since this Lubavitcher is so fundamentalist, I suppose s/he believes Christian civilization is to be destroyed Being that he is still dead, I don't know that he can believe in much of anything. all Christians "worship Jesus instead of God." Thus, is marxist-leninism really a Judaic politikal means to this babylonian talmudic end? marxist-leninism is atheistic: that means they don't believe ANY God exists. A lot of data are available that seem to point to this possibility: the 3,500-year old religion of Judaism teaches that idol worshippers are to be exterminated from the face of the Earth as quickly as possible by any and all means possible, exactly what marxist-leninism also decrees about Christians. And every other religion, including Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc. Since Judaism teaches that all Christians are idol worshippers (along with everyone else in the world who is not Jewish), what do orthodox Jews, such as Sen. LIEberman, actually believe? Why don't you ask him? So, "laws" that applied to the Bronze Age also apply to the Space Age and thermonuclear warfare? Nothing changes? A cigar is always just a cigar? How absurd. What a brood of vipers haughtily making busy with their scales as they measure tit for tat according to their own manner of self-righteousness. Are you saying that the Bible is changeable to fit the times? H, maybe that's where Klinton got his modus vivendi. In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Jesus was crucified, a penalty reserved strictly for rebels against the ROMAN occupiers of Judea. Had Jesus blasphemed against Judaism, they would have stoned him to death, not turned him over to Rome. Can't be Jesus being referred to. sinless? How absurd. If they were so sinless, why then the need for a Messiah? The Messiah, in Judaism, is not considered a Savior in the Christian sense. He was expected to be the one to liberate the Jews from Roman domination. But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man. See above. their forefathers. I am so very sick of religious fundamentalism and its "horned" boogymen and its own manners of self-righteousness. Does this include Christian and Islamic fundamentalism? ALL Old Testament prophesy
Re: [CTRL] Above Top Secret Newsletter #28
-Caveat Lector- It is nothing to wonder about. Look at Van Danniken (sp?), he acts as though he is the progenitor of the "Gods coming from the sky" story and almost like he discovered the lines of Nazca (and other places and things as well). It is quite clear why these people do this, it is to enhance their own reputation and make them into the "leading" scholar on the subject. It also helps to shut out debate. On Tue, 03 October 2000, nexusmagazine wrote: -Caveat Lector- Opening The Lost Tombs... The Enterprise Discovery Fox's world-wide Egyptian television Special - "Opening the Lost Tombs: Live from Egypt" - was broadcast live from Egypt's Giza Plateau, March 2nd. The program included a major segment featuring Richard C. Hoagland, Principal Investigator of the Enterprise Mission; Hoagland presented compelling graphical evidence, never before seen on network television, strongly hinting at a prior a "high-tech" civilization period prior to the known Egyptian civilization. Hoagland's evidence consisted of enigmatic glyphs discovered carved into the ceiling beams of a 3000-year old New Kingdom Temple, located several hundred miles south of Cairo and the Giza Plateau, at Abydos. The glyphs, perched high under the several hundred ton roof of the temple itself, depict astonishingly-modern-looking flying machines ... completely impossible under any current archaeological views of ancient Egypt! Hoagland's Abydos discovery was verified in November 1998 by a Fox television crew's own several hundred mile trek to the SETI-I temple at Abydos, and actual filming of the glyphs in place within the temple. The find is nothing less than astonishing support for the controversial sub-text of the March 2nd Fox Egyptian telecast: that we are not the first. That a prior, "high-tech epoch" to civilization somehow came before the now known Ancient Egyptian Civilization... which attempted to memorialize momentos of that ancient, now forgotten period in a temple built thousands of years after its predecessor's mysterious disappearance. Let's get this right - Hoagland did NOT discover the Abydos glyphs. They have been photographed, discussed and circulated for many many years prior to Hoagland jumping all over them. I wonder why he chooses not to correct this myth? regards Duncan Duncan M. Roads Editor, NEXUS Magazine PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280; Fax: +61 (0)7 5442 9381 http://www.nexusmagazine.com ICQ#62399259 "The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end." (Aldous Huxley) A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's
Re: [CTRL] Occult within covert groups?
-Caveat Lector- I'd say that Samantha summed it up pretty well here. It is taken as given that the two are intertwined, and what has it gotten anyone? There is never any evidence to present only peoples testimony that something did occur. It could be all a bunch of mis-perceptions, hoaxes, and fraud, as well as signs of mental illness. There undoubtedly is much of all that involved somewhere but I still think there is a lot of truth to the relayed memories. There are many connections between the occult and the Intel. There is a desire for control of radical movements and fringe belief systems which could potentially be threats to the country and which means that groups are infiltrated and controlled. There is a desire to study controlling systems in order to effectively use these same systems for their own mind control efforts. There are others but these two examples should be enough to indicate why the Intel. world would almost HAVE TO be involved. On Tue, 03 October 2000, "Samantha L." wrote: -Caveat Lector- The anecdotal evidence, from survivor accounts I've come across over the years, is that many/most make an intel connection to their ritual abuse experiences. Dr. Bennett Braun documented many such accounts from survivors who linked their perps to national senators, CEO's of Fortune 500 companies and members of the intelligence community. He started to give such accounts credibility when they fell under the rules of 3, 4 or 5 - when 3 or more survivors who didn't know each other named the same prominent person. Constantine cites a marriage between intel and satanic cults beginning in the early 60's, as a trade-off: protection of cult members from prosecutions in exchange for info on mind-control techniques. He wrote about this in "Psychcic Dictatorship" but his reference for this was only a speech given by someone else. More than one survivor believes the marriage occurred long before the early 60's. There is no hard evidence that I am aware of - as there rarely is where covert ops are concerned. I take it as a given that there is a profound connection between the two, and proceed from there. But so what? It hasn't helped me get anywhere with it. If we had full accountability with Congressional oversight for each penny spent on covert ops, we might get somewhere. But the inmates are still running the asylum. Samantha In a message dated 10/3/00 11:19:46 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi - I'm curious what people think about occult belief systems operating within the intelligence community? The famous Aquino/satanism case has always interested me, that something so strange and twisted really happened. Also, I've often wondered if any of the occult Nazi beliefs operating during World War II perhaps bled over to America during Paperclip? (After all, didn't Aquino perform some weird satanic rite while visiting Germany?) Aside from the Aquino saga, I've only heard rumors and conspiracy theories involving Montauk, mind-control, and maybe Jack Parsons group at JPL during the 1960s. Is there any hard evidence that this is widespread, or is it the exception to the rule? thanks A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: FDA conflicts of interest (USA Today)]
-Caveat Lector- I think just about everyone on this list knew this already but it is good and about time that this has made it into national news. How about we talk now about conflict of interest in the judicial system as well? On Tue, 26 September 2000, Nurev Ind Research wrote: -Caveat Lector- Original Message Subject: FDA conflicts of interest (USA Today) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:36:02 -0500 (CDT) From: MichaelP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: ? To: undisclosed-recipients:; http://www.usatoday.com/news/washdc/ncssun06.htm 09/25/00- Updated 12:24 AM ET FDA advisers tied to industry By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY More than half of the experts hired to advise the government on the safety and effectiveness of medicine have financial relationships with the pharmaceutical companies that will be helped or hurt by their decisions, a USA TODAY study found. These experts are hired to advise the Food and Drug Administration on which medicines should be approved for sale, what the warning labels should say and how studies of drugs should be designed. The experts are supposed to be independent, but USA TODAY found that 54% of the time, they have a direct financial interest in the drug or topic they are asked to evaluate. These conflicts include helping a pharmaceutical company develop a medicine, then serving on an FDA advisory committee that judges the drug. The conflicts typically include stock ownership, consulting fees or research grants. Federal law generally prohibits the FDA from using experts with financial conflicts of interest, but the FDA has waived the restriction more than 800 times since 1998. These pharmaceutical experts, about 300 on 18 advisory committees, make decisions that affect the health of millions of Americans and billions of dollars in drugs sales. With few exceptions, the FDA follows the committees' advice. The FDA reveals when financial conflicts exist, but it has kept details secret since 1992, so it is not possible to determine the amount of money or the drug company involved. A USA TODAY analysis of financial conflicts at 159 FDA advisory committee meetings from Jan. 1, 1998, through last June 30 found: At 92% of the meetings, at least one member had a financial conflict of interest. At 55% of meetings, half or more of the FDA advisers had conflicts of interest. Conflicts were most frequent at the 57 meetings when broader issues were discussed: 92% of members had conflicts. At the 102 meetings dealing with the fate of a specific drug, 33% of the experts had a financial conflict. "The best experts for the FDA are often the best experts to consult with industry," says FDA senior associate commissioner Linda Suydam, who is in charge of waiving conflict-of-interest restrictions. But Larry Sasich of Public Citizen , an advocacy group, says, "The industry has more influence on the process than people realize." == *** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes. Feel free to distribute widely but PLEASE acknowledge the source. *** A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives
Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: FDA conflicts of interest (USA Today)]
-Caveat Lector- I don't think we can go to a system where there is NO regulation, because it is just asking for trouble from those who would be unscrupulous regardless. In matters of health I think it is advisable to have truly independant experts evaluate the effectiveness and safety of all products, but that the people should STILL have the last word as to whether they want to try it or not. In other words I think that if you want to take a drug that the FDA says is ineffective or possibly dangerous then I don't think they have the right to keep it from you or you from taking it. At the same time there does need to be some measure of control over claims, manufacturing protocals, standardization, truth in labelling, etc. On Tue, 26 September 2000, "M.A. Johnson" wrote: -Caveat Lector- FDA advisers tied to industry Ever hear of the Public Choice Model? This unconstitutional, oppressive illusion should be abolished. Regard$, --MJ Regulation - which is based on force and fear - undermines the moral base of business dealings. It becomes cheaper to bribe a building inspector than to meet his standards of construction. A fly-by-night securities operator can quickly meet all the S.E.C. requirements, gain the inference of respectability, and proceed to fleece the public. In an unregulated economy, the operator would have had to spend a number of years in reputable dealings before he could earn a position of trust sufficient to induce a number of investors to place funds with him. Protection of the consumer by regulation is thus illusory. -- Alan Greenspan A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Military Trained for Police Ops
-Caveat Lector- We've been moving in this direction for quite some time. The right would claim it was the forewarning of the coming Marshall Law. Others would probably say it was a foreshadowing of the centralized governance that the NWO is trying to establish. Either way it is a sorry state of affairs for all of us. On Tue, 26 September 2000, Bill Richer wrote: -Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! A HREF="http://www.spotlight.org/09_19_00/Policeops/policeops.html" Policeops/A http://www.spotlight.org/09_19_00/Policeops/policeops.html Military Trained for Police Ops A retired colonel charges that the U.S. military's elite units are being trained in civilian areas in America to take over the role of domestic police. Exclusive to The SPOTLIGHT By Mike Blair A high-ranking retired Special Operations Command officer told The SPOTLIGHT that elite military units have been undertaking urban warfare maneuvers in cities and towns across the United States in preparation for assuming the duties of U.S. law enforcement. The retired colonel confirmed for the first time that the mysterious training engaged in by U.S. Army Special Forces and Delta Force, Navy Seals, Marines Force Recon and U.S. Air Force Air Com mandos is intended for domestic operations. Use of U.S. troops to enforce civilian law is a gross violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, legislation passed during the Rutherford B. Hayes administration prohibiting the U.S. military from engaging in domestic law enforcement, and the Constitution. The officer, a retired colonel, told The SPOTLIGHT that the Pentagon has been purposely misleading the public by explaining that these exercises are urban warfare training to prepare American elite troops for missions in foreign lands, such as hostage rescue operations at a be sieged U.S. embassy or other U.S. interest centers. The colonel said, however, the fact is the troops are primarily training for police-type activities, particularly in the United States. Two units have been heavily involved in the training: the Army's Delta Force and the Night Stalkers, the latter group being a unit of highly-trained helicopter pilots, who ferry the Delta Force troopers into action and have been responsible for flying low, at almost tree-top or roof-top level, over civilian areas. The colonel, who spoke with The SPOTLIGHT on the condition of anonymity, has been supported in his revelations by disclosures to the Internet web site, World Net Daily, by former Night Stalker, Captain Jeff Norgrove. "These aren't really military exercises," Norgrove said. "They are SWAT training. The Army will never admit that to you, but that's what it is.'' Last year, Delta Force and the Night Stalkers were involved in a controversial exercise in Kingsville, Tex., where the SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics) troops used live ammunition and explosives to conduct their training. Special Operations Command officials at Fort Bragg, N.C., insist that only "training ammunition" was used during the exercise in Kingsville and other American communities. A number of retired military officers have come forward to insist that Army claims of the use of only training ammunition are untrue. "They really think we're so stupid that we can't figure this out," Norgrove said. Most of the Night Stalkers and the Delta Force troops, according to Norgrove and the retired colonel, are young and not fully aware of what is going on. "They just do what they are told," Norgrove explained. "It's exciting and the pay is very good." The colonel told The SPOTLIGHT that the young Delta Force soldiers and Night Stalkers involved in the activities are heavily indoctrinated. "They would not have any hesitation to shoot at their fellow Americans if they were ordered to do so and felt that it was the right thing to do under a given circumstance," the colonel said. "They are part of what the military refers to as 'the warrior class' and they are tasked to take out the enemy, and that could mean to them, under the right circumstances, either foreigners or their own countrymen," the former Special Operations officer explained. While the FAA regulations require air craft to fly well above the tops of houses and buildings, the Night Stalk ers are criss-crossing American cities and towns at extremely low levels, many contend, endangering the civilian population. In Kingsville, as an example, a helicopter struck the top of a telephone pole, causing a fire near a home. The Delta Force and Night Stalkers do not even wear standard military uniforms. Instead, just like any SWAT team, they are garbed in black uniforms, complete with black helmets and face shields. They also wear bulletproof body armor and are usually discharged from the Night Stalkers' helicopters wielding Ger man-made Hechler and Koch 9-mm machine guns. The
Re: [CTRL] Is Willie SHANNON utterly deranged?
-Caveat Lector- I would like to jump in here and say that this is an issue that has come up here repeatedly, over and over again on this list. I have tried on more than one occasion to discourage personal attacks on list. Most people here are aware of this, and abide by it. Why can't we all remember that this is a list to exchange information and not a format for meting out your personal rancor to others who subscribe. Sometimes it is more prudent to keep your mouth shut than to continue a fruitless thread that succeeds only in attacking someone's PERSON. Please, if Kris didn't have to spend half his day trying to tame some adolescent bickering and the list was not so cluttered by endless jabbering and RE:'s about useless items that have nothing to do with conspiracy theory THEN perhaps everyone would have an opportunity to participate and more information could be exchanged to everyones greater benefit. On Mon, 25 September 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/25/00 7:10:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Johannes Schmidt III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, this 'Willie' is obviously a second account from that Bill Shannon character, because there are probably only 3-4 people on this list each with numerous differnet posting names. You really should learn some technical skills, before spouting. This list is a public list and has public records. There is a manual for listees at lsoft.com if you wish. More what I have seen on this list, lately, is attempts to disrupt and break apart an interesting coalition of informational exchange. I guess some can be tacked up to just normal ignorance, rudeness and boorishness, BUT you know what I do not care. This list is not for me to choose personal sides and I shan't BUT I am going to insist on some decorum. STOP the personal attacks. Personal attacks will get a strong reprimand and if continued or of sufficent gravity at first offense that listee shall be tossed. This list is about conspiracy theory and consists of informational exchange and discusssion. Looking at both material of a conspiratorial bent and also looking at the media stream for propagandic pyschological sets. Whether a listee is crazy or purple I dunna care and do ntot make personal attributes of a person to attack. And June, can you please tone down abit. IT IS JUST AN EMAIL LIST. You stir up lots of trouble. And being right many times is relative. And none of is always right. Use your strengths and just please don't be qite so quick to rush in. If you don't like something, if it just BS, just delete it or something and let us be either try to get more along or remember Silience can be golden. People if wrong will soon enough discredit them selves. Sometimes your combativness discredits you, sometimes it leads to a long thread of rancor. I am tired and need to be getting to bed. Om K A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different
Re: [CTRL] NAZI POLICY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALS
-Caveat Lector- It's my pleasure. Incidentally I think that everyone would be happier here if there wasn't the immediate knee jerk reaction to confront that there is by some. That IS NOT TO SAY that one should just dumbly accept whatever is posted without asking for facts and follow up. Let's just not take it all so personally. Remember if you post you face the same possibility of demands for facts and proof, etc. It is the nature of the game, but one must remember that there is no mandate to kkep a running debate going forever, so plan your battles carefully and only respond where you feel prepared to continue, otherwise maybe it is best to let it ride. Just some friendly advice to all. On Mon, 18 September 2000, Amelia wrote: Thank you so much tenebroust, I was beginning to think I was missing posts, etc. Also, I think we should remember our motto "Caveat Lector" for each reader to beware and judge for himself the validity of a post. Disinformation is fraught in conspiracies. It is also not a good idea to assume a post represents the poster's personal beliefs, either. If I post the Communist Manifesto, does that make me a communist? I think not. Many posts are sent for the dissemination of information only, maybe only to show what is being said on a particularly subject. To attribute that to the person's "own personal beliefs" is very presumptuous. As for being divisive, well, I am not the one inventing things that were allegedly said in order to rant against them for days. And shame on you-know-who for reacting to Kris' wanting a little peace of mind for his symposium! All I was going to do was greet newcomers and help them avoid the landmines and learn about our limited bandwidth! No coup d'etat planned. :) I am always available to any new folks if you have questions about how the list operates or posting, etc. Peace to All, Amelia - Original Message - From: "tenebroust" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] NAZI POLICY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALS There have been several list members who have made the accusation that the majority of pedophiles are homosexual in sexual orientation. That assertion was challenged and never successfully defended (at leat to my recollection). I don't believe it was ever stated by anyone that ALL pedophiles are homosexuals or that all homosexuals are pedophiles, so to my recollection, your assertion on that subject is correct. On Sat, 16 September 2000, Amelia wrote: June, Are you saying the two terms are mutually exclusive? While a person may have one primary sexual identity, it does not mean they are incapable of committing acts normally attributed to another identity. A person with a primary identity of being homosexual may or may not be capable of committing acts of pedophilia, the same as a heterosexual. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with
Re: [CTRL] CIA-DRUGS CONFERENCE, LOS ANGELES SEPT. 23,
-Caveat Lector-
Kudos once again to Kris. It sounds like the conference will be great. I wish I
could attend.
On Mon, 18 September 2000, Kris Millegan wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
CIA-DRUGS CONFERENCE, LOS ANGELES SEPT. 23,
TO FEATURE ARKANSAS TRAIN DEATH MOTHERS
An all day CIA-Drugs Symposium featuring nationally known speakers will be
held in Los Angeles on Saturday, September 23 at Patriot Hall, 1816 S.
Figueroa Ave. in downtown Los Angeles. Doors will open at 8:30 AM and
Conference presentations will start at 9Am and run to 6 PM.
In the city where the crack cocaine epidemic began a special theme will be
an expression of unity for all the mothers of those affected. In addition to
a presentation from LA activists Donna Warren and Didon Kamathi, Linda Ives,
Jean Duffey and Mara Leveritt will make presentations as the mother,
prosecutor and author personally touched by the brutal murder of two
teenaged boys in the Arkansas countryside after they ran across CIA
connected drug smuggling in the 1980s.
Keynote speaker for the event will be noted author and UC Professor Peter
Dale Scott ("Iran-Contra Connection" and "Cocaine politics"). Additional
presentations will be made by FTW Publisher/Editor and former LAPD narc,
Mike Ruppert; retired DEA Agent Celerino Castillo; and author/producer
Daniel Hopsicker. Topics to be discussed will be the Colombian ground war,
already drawing U.S. troops, the recent Ninth Circuit Court decision
confirming evidence of CIA drug ties during the 1980s and much, much more.
Admission is on a sliding scale with a $10 donation suggested, but no one
will be turned away.
For additional information please contact conference organizer Kris Millegan
at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] , or
877-642-8321 ext. 9696
Or visit the conference web site at www.cia-drugs.org
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
All My Relations.
Omnia Bona Bonis,
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
"Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix
"My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space
Odyssey
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==
CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Keep the Homophobes Out of Our Discussion
-Caveat Lector- It surely an be argued that conspiratorial forces are at work behind some movements and that some homosexual agendas may be used for that purpose. If one wanted to argue these issues, and leave out the ranting and raving of how it is "evil" or "bad" for people to be homosexual, or how "homosexuals are invading our . . . ", or "they are indoctrinating our children to become homosexual", then I think the discussion would be pertinent to this list, otherwise, it is off topic. Be warned that if you say there is a conspiratorial force at work, then you better be prepared to name it and give a little bit of facts to support it. On Mon, 18 September 2000, "Damian B. Cooper" wrote: -Caveat Lector- At 11:21 AM 9/17/00 -0700, nessie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a list devoted to conspiracy. Homosexuality is off topic and diversionary. Oh brother! If you don't understand that homosexuals and homosexuality are being manipulated by others with an agenda that has damn little to do with either, you don't understand "conspiracy". DBC "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A law allowing the cops to break the law.
Totally absurd of course, but I submit that such a situation already exists in fact if not in legal language in some document somewhere. The idea of "stings" and "undercover" work is all about underhanded operations of supposed law enforcement agents in order to "get the goods on the bad guys". This would merely formalize what is in fact already the case, a truly sorry state of affairs indeed. On Thu, 14 September 2000, Mike Smith wrote: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" HTMLHEAD META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" META content="MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=GENERATOR STYLE/STYLE /HEAD BODY bgColor=#ff DIVFONT face=Arial size=2A href="http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0009/14_law.html"http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSLaw0009/14_law.html/A/FONT/DIV DIVFONT face=Arial size=2/FONTnbsp;/DIV DIVBR DIV id=xlgheadlineBFONT color=#99 size=+1Lawyers wary of proposal/FONT/BBR/DIV!-- SUB-HEADLINE GOES UNDER HERE -- DIV id=lgtextBSuggestion cops be allowed to break laws met with reservations/BBR/DIV!-- BYLINE GOES UNDER HERE -- DIV id=smtextFONT color=#66BBy DOUG BEAZLEY/B -- Edmonton Sun/FONTBR/DIV!-- TOP TABLE GOES UNDER HERE -- DIV id=smtext P align=justifyEDMONTON -- A federal proposal to give cops leeway to break the law - and even commit violent acts - to bolster investigations is getting nervous looks from the legal community. BRBRA Justice Canada white paper being shopped around provincial governments and police forces suggests cops be empowered to commit crimes ranging from drug trafficking to violent assaults, if they believe they need to in order to pursue an investigation. BRBR"The question we want to ask here is, why?" said lawyer Stephen Jenuth, head of the Alberta Civil Liberties Association. "There are provisions in the law now to allow officers to do things like sell drugs. Why is the government pursuing such sweeping powers all of a sudden?" BRBRThe white paper deals mostly with undercover police operations and drug stings. The paper says "intentional use of force" outside of the law wouldn't be permitted except in special circumstances - such as a situation where an undercover cop uses violence to prevent another undercover cop from being exposed or to protect evidence. BRBR"Say a cop wants to infiltrate a biker group and they ask him to, for instance, go beat up Stephen Jenuth," said Jenuth. "He could make a mistake and end up killing me, I guess." BRBRActually, the white paper says the liability shield would not cover the commission of sexual offences or assaults leading to "grievous bodily harm" or death. BRBRAnd a senior lawyer with Justice Canada said the shield probably wouldn't cover undercover cops committing assaults simply to prove they're not cops. BRBR"The officer would be expected to find another way," said Michael Zigayer. BRBRThe special liability protection proposed by the paper would kick in when the officer got clearance from a "senior law enforcement official" designated by the Crown. BRBRBut in cases where communication with that senior officer isn't possible, the cop could make a field decision to go ahead and do the crime. BRBR"It's a slippery slope, and one never knows what's at the bottom of it," said local criminal lawyer Robbie Davidson. BRBR"I can't see how this is justified." BRBRConst. Grant Obst can. The head of the Canadian Police Association said police need to be able to bend the rules occasionally in order to fight organized crime. BRBR"There are situations where we're better equipped to infiltrate criminal organizations if we're able to ... compromise the law in certain situations," he said. BRBRAnd Zigayer said the white paper policy wouldn't protect a cop if a subsequent criminal trial found he went too far. BRBR"The officer would face prosecution for the crime, and the evidence he gathered would be thrown out," he said. BRBRAn Alberta Justice spokesman, meanwhile, said the department has "reservations" about the use-of-force provision. He wouldn't elaborate. BRBRThe lawyers, justice ministers and police will get their chance to critique the paper Oct. 5 when the feds hold a special round table on their proposals. /P/DIV/DIV/BODY/HTML "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used
Re: [CTRL] NAZI POLICY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALS
What is the whole worry here? Are people worried that their children will one day come home from school just itchin' to be homosexual based on some secret and covert "nazi" infiltration and indoctrination program by the "militant" homosexual movement? This is truly absurd. The least thing you have to worry about with your kid in school today is the "militant homosexual agenda" and its possible negative affect on your child. Better you worry about heterosexual molestation, violence, unprotected sex, and drugs, and perhaps even the "nazi-like" capitalistic indoctrination of our youth to the idea that aquisition is the measure of everything in this society. On Fri, 15 September 2000, Justine Blake wrote: I think Aleisha is QUITE RIGHT on all of this. I had asked a homosexual pedophile on a web-based Forum once who was from Germany if they taught homosexuality in the elementary schools there. He replied "Oh no!" That homosexuality was brought up discretely at the high school level. I was at that Forum for several months, gathering information, getting into their heads. Really to see if my estimation of what was happening in Amerika was correct. I learned more than I bargained for. I, for one, could have lived with homosexuals "coming out of the closet" had it been done that way, discretely, here in Amerika. But due to the homosexual militant groups like ACT UP, Queer Nation, the pseudo-Christian group "Dignity" (which infiltrated the religious area), and also the Rainbow Coilition which brought you homosexual propagandizing brain-washing techniques into your very elementary school system -- the militancy learned from Nazi techniques (remember Operation Paperclip, and it was also called something else?). Backed by Democratic Socialists, Marxists, and Leninists, they are after getting rid of anything Christian in this country which even touches on the secular. Getting homosexual propaganda into the elementary school system, and what we see happening to the beleagured Boy Scouts of America, is no longer a question of "tolerance", it is a question of brain-washing generations to come into the homosexual lifestyle. THIS is why Christians and other people have a problem with the "homosexual Agenda". If you doubt that NAZI propaganda techniques are behind the homosexual militancy, you have read "The Pink Swatstika"? Here, it's available at amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964760932/o/qid=969069093/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/102-4768859-4079362 Scroll down and read the reviews. See what you think of it. Makes one wonder about those men dressed in black leather, chains, and wearing Nazi hats. They say it's a "costume", but I think they've read "The Pink Swatstika". Justine No Nessie - Boy Scouts do not push their beliefs upon those who do not believe in their high standards..a sodomist is a sodomist - let them stay with their own and form their own boy and girl scouts, if they can figure where to put what - do they have boys in the girls dorms or do they prefer to have girls and girls in one dorm, and boys and boys in one dorm..would you want your kid on a camp out with any of them? This Gay Pride is a lound mouthed minority trying to butt in where they are not wanted and will not be condoned. Let they form their own Scouts, Reno for the little girls, and Barney Franks for their little boys..how sweet that would be. Let them form their own homosexual churches and push all the sodomy they want - let them all die of AIDS and and love for all I care - just keep away from me and mine. To each his own. Nobody seemed to much care until an issue was made of it.note the queer Republican at the conventin - he spoke as a man, not a queer; and note the queers at the Democrat Convention who run as queers these days . maybe that is the difference. Put Ellen back in the closet and lock the doorthese sickos want to destroy our children, and do not thing that is the target. Like King said, I do not want to be your broher in law, just your brotherthen he chased a woman naked down a hall, got caught - and no more Moses - or is that why God knocked Moses off Mt. Nebe - you know, it is the jewish OT which is against sodomy and adulterated blood.comes with the religion. Me I do not go to church - I know right from wrong, and if sodomy is right, then I am wrong - and will continue to be wrong - for I do not want these evil pervered twisted people around my grandson or near my home. A. Saba Dare To Call It Conspiracy The Truth Is Somewhere... \\\!/// 0(o o)0 -o00o---(_)---o00o- __ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing
Re: [CTRL] Addition of new moderator. . .
I second the motion from Kris, and welcome Amelia aboard. I have been quite busy lately myself, what with an out of town trip and some problems closer to home in recent weeks, but I will be more available to check in and keep things moving in a productive way now that a lot of that has been taken care of. I would like to say that if anyone here has any questions about list functions, ettiquette, etc, that may not be suitable for general circulation on the list please feel free to contact me off list and I will be happy to help you out. Once again WELCOME Amelia, and remember I am here if you need anything, feel frwee to drop a line. . . On Fri, 15 September 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: Howdy all, We have been growing a bit lately and also as the "election" year brings out . . . into the discourse. Amd I do have some times coming-up when I shall be quite busy. Amelia is joining with long-time tenerbreous in moderation duties. Amelia [EMAIL PROTECTED] is going to try and bring a little bit of civility to this unruly lot and help "newbies" navigate the "minefields. We are not looking to cut the levels of discourse, but if we could bring down the tone, chit-chat, "trolling" and provactive posts. There is enough emotion and dis/mis information twithout spending bandwidth and archives space on useless "made-to-be-divisive" issues. The disclaimer is quite clear, prostelysizing posts are strongly discouraged. Personal beliefs are between yourself and GOD. IMHO Onwards . . . Om k - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Omnia Bona Bonis, Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Olaf Palme - any conspiracy theories?
Please, this is no disturbance! This list is designed for questions about and discussion of items of interest exactly like the death of Olaf Palme, and if I am not mistaken I am sure there are some articles on that subject in the archives. The archives are at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html There is a search function which enables you to look for key words in list articles. I hope that helps. On Sat, 16 September 2000, Kelly wrote: Bill wrote: Nuremberg in South Africa [In South Africa, You Can See Kurdistan, the analogy is of AKIN's not that of the Author's] Allister Sparks Thanks for this article Bill! I remember that story now - very interesting. Also, I hate to admit this, but I have never figured out how to use the CTRL archives. If someone could tell me, I'd appreciate it - maybe there are more articles and/or posts on Palme in the archives? Sorry for disturbing this fabulous list! Kelly A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Murder and Drugs in Arkansas
This is so true and predictable on the part of the FBI. No matter what one has to say about the "truth" of accusations made against the President and Gore about the various scandals they have been implicated in there is no question that the Justice Dept. under Reno, which includes the FBI has consistently stonewalled and refused to investigat where those investigation would point to prominent people in authority. On Sat, 16 September 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: from: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/henry.htm Click Here: A HREF="http://www.aci.net/kalliste/henry.htm"Murder and Drugs in Arkansas/A - Murder and Drugs in Arkansas by J. Orlin Grabbe It appears to be one more case where the FBI has concealed evidence to protect prominent individuals involved in drug-dealing. On Aug. 23, 1987, the bodies of two teenagers-- Don Henry, 16, and Kevin Ives, 17--were found close to Shobe Road near Alexander, Arkansas. They had been run over by a Union Pacific train. The state medical examiner, Fahmy Malak, ruled that the deaths were accidental--saying the two boys had smoked too much marijuana, and then had fallen asleep on the railroad tracks. But an Atlanta, Ga., forensic pathologist named Joe Burton said that prior to being run over by the train, Don Henry had been stabbed in the back, while Kevin Ives had been beaten in the face. A grand jury ruled the deaths a double homicide. Deputy prosecutor Richard Garrett and special deputy prosecutor Dan Harmon said the two death were related to Saline County drug trafficking. Now the police chief of Alexander, John Brown, acknowledges he obtained a taped confession from one of the murderers of the two boys. This admission was prompted by critcisms of Brown that came from Don Henry's father, Curtis Henry. According to The Benton Courier, Brown acknowledged during his recent bid for sheriff of Saline County: "Mr. Henry is accurate about losing contact with me in late 1993. During our last meeting, Mr. Henry heard part of a taped confession by one of the persons involved in the murders" (Jerry Breeden, "Brown says taped confession awaiting action," November 4, 1996). The Benton Courier goes on to say: "U.S. Attorney Paula Casey, contacted at her Little Rock office today, was asked if she was aware of the confession to which Brown refers. " 'I think that, under the circumstances, the best thing for me to say for now is "no comment," ' Casey said. "Brown's response continues: " 'Until now I have avoided talking about this confession at the request of federal investigators. " ' Because of the magnitude and suspects named in this confession, it was impossible to pursue this case at the state level. " 'Unfortunately, Mr. [Curtis] Henry contacted another suspect (who was a prominent Saline County resident) and informed him of being named in this confession. Ms. [Judy] Pridgen [Saline County sheriff] and I discussed the matter, and it was decided to immediately cease contact with Mr. Henry. That decision was reinforced by FBI agent Phyllis Cournan, who was assigned to the case. These allegations made me realize that no one has informed Mr. Henry that this confession and the evidence I gathered while working on this case for 18 months corroborated FBI intelligence files. This evidence is what initiated the FBI investigation.' " So there you have it. The FBI has been sitting on evidence related to murder without even notifying the father of one of the murder victims. But concealing evidence, or else (if need be) manufacturing it, has become par for the course at the FBI, especially where drug-dealers and high-level politicians are involved. After all, they all work for the same masters. November 20, 1996 Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Omnia Bona Bonis, Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [CTRL] Holocaust Museum Sued for Memorializing
I don't have any children, but I'm sure that if I did I would seriously consider home schooling. Maybe not so much for what I "fear" they will learn or be indoctrinated with while there (for as a "good" parent I would like to think I would raise my kids to know the difference between right and wrong, and to have an open mind, but to use their minds to look at and decide for themselves what is "right" for them or not) but because of the potential for harm that is there today, real physical, or emotional harm. It is a far wiser coarse in my opinion to actually DO something to make things better where you CAN than to just bemoan how bad it is. This is what is being advocated here, and I think it is sensible. If you don't klike the schools then try to change them, but in the meantime take your kids out if it worries you. If you don't like "militant homosexual agendas" then stay away from them and cover your kids ears when the "agendas" are on the evil "nazi-like" prow for young recruits. On Sat, 16 September 2000, Tenorlove wrote: --- Justine Blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But propaganda brain-washing in the elementary schools is more than I can bear. Schools in the old days were for LEARNING. And they wonder why the skhools are in the mess they are in. Precisely why, if you love your children, you do NOT put them in public schools. Private or home schooling (I do the latter) is far, far better for your children. Time and money are merely excuses. It IS a sacrifice. But my children are worth every minute and every penny. If you don't think you know enough to teach your children, think again. You taught them how to talk, how to walk, how to go potty, how to eat, how to dress themselves, how to brush their teeth, how to comb their hair if you can do that, you can surely teach them how to read, how to write, how to do arithmetic, how to put together a coherent thought... sometimes you learn alongside your children. You get together with other parents who care enough to do the same, and you exchange ideas, you trade expertise (you teach my kids to change a tire, I'll teach your kids how to bake bread), and you give each other support. You make the effort, and you find a way, and the job gets done. Tenorlove __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A
Re: [CTRL] NAZI POLICY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALS
There have been several list members who have made the accusation that the majority of pedophiles are homosexual in sexual orientation. That assertion was challenged and never successfully defended (at leat to my recollection). I don't believe it was ever stated by anyone that ALL pedophiles are homosexuals or that all homosexuals are pedophiles, so to my recollection, your assertion on that subject is correct. On Sat, 16 September 2000, Amelia wrote: June, Are you saying the two terms are mutually exclusive? While a person may have one primary sexual identity, it does not mean they are incapable of committing acts normally attributed to another identity. A person with a primary identity of being homosexual may or may not be capable of committing acts of pedophilia, the same as a heterosexual. What should one call an adult male whose main sexual activity is with other adult males with opportunistic acts of pedophilia exclusively with male children? Probably a homosexual committing acts of pedophilia but that is a very lengthy PC phrase and not easily used by lay people on a casual email list. The same sort of question could be applied to, for example, a pedophile who lives as a heterosexual with a wife and children, abstaining from pedophilia because of illegality/unavailability. Technically, this person could be labeled a "non-practicing pedophile." It is just too convoluted and easier to identify the person by what they are doing and that is probably why people do that. I have not seen anybody on this list say that ALL homosexuals are pedophiles. Will somebody send me the portion of these posts that say that because I have missed it. I keep reading accusations that this one and that one is saying that but I cannot locate one instance of anybody claiming such a thing. Guess if you want to argue, one thing is as good as another. Amelia - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] NAZI POLICY TOWARD HOMOSEXUALS From: "Justine Blake" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had asked a homosexual pedophile There IS no such thing. There are heterosexuals, there are homosexuals, and there are pedophiles. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A
Re: [CTRL] Forfeiture
Yet another article on the evils of Asset Forfeiture. The propaganda surrounding this issue is adequately stated in the article. The idea that "drug dealers" and "hard core criminals" are the ones that are being affected is ludicrous. There have been a lot of good people who have been adversely affected by this law. It is about time that it be scrapped, if it isn't for the innocents who are negatively affected then it should be for those who may in fact be guilty but who have nonetheless been deprived of due process anyway. On Fri, 25 August 2000, Donald Park wrote: Request Sample Issue Government on the Take by John Perna Private property falls victim to forfeiture laws The Drug Enforcement Administration means business! Big business! As a matter of fact, the DEA and other agencies have made government into a "one-stop shopping" headquarters for almost anything of value. Do you need a car? A boat? An airplane? How about the whole airstrip? A house? A mobile home? A hotel? A motel? An apartment building? A ranch? A store? A laboratory? There is literally no limit to what government has for sale. The reason for this is simple: According to the Comprehensive Forfeiture Act of 1984 the government may now seize -- without a warrant -- any property which it suspects has been used, or is intended to be used, to commit a crime. The property may then either be auctioned off, with the money going to the agency making the seizure, or retained by the agency for its own use. Cars, yachts, houses, and other property are made available to individuals who work for the agencies, many of them undercover agents who have to be able to blend in with the millionaire drug kingpins and racketeers they are trying to nab. Since 1989, the federal government has reported receiving more than $2.2 billion in forfeited assets. It is a misconception that government agencies only seize property from drug dealers and criminals. According to the Comprehensive Forfeiture Act of 1984, the government may seize property without even alleging that a crime has been committed. About 80 percent of all property taken is lost by people who are never even charged with a crime. The allegation that the property was intended to be used in criminal activity is often sufficient. There are two types of forfeiture: civil and criminal. Criminal forfeiture operates in personam, meaning against the criminal defendant, while civil forfeiture operates in rem, meaning "against the thing." The guilt of a property owner is of no relevance in determining the outcome of a civil forfeiture case. The legal theory behind civil forfeiture cases operates upon the fictional premise that the property itself has committed a crime. These kinds of cases give prosecutors an obvious advantage, since the property has no rights. If the owner wishes to retrieve his property, he must take the government to court in a civil action, and thus bear the burden of proof. In the case where a crime has not been committed, the owner is required to demonstrate that he had no intent to use the property in a criminal act. In essence, the forfeited property is deemed "guilty" until the owner can prove it is innocent. The government dispenses with the procedural protection that is afforded in criminal matters by calling such a case a "civil" matter. The seizures can be done without any pre-seizure judicial review and without probable cause. However, by thoroughly searching the property they have seized, law enforcement officials can sometimes find probable cause for the issuance of a warrant. The constitutional protection against "unreasonable searches and seizures" has been cast aside. In fact, one crime might create two separate cases. One's car, plane, boat, or house may be "under arrest" in a criminal investigation. The owner may also be under arrest, but not necessarily. If someone other than the owner of the property commits the crime, this would still make the property "guilty," and thus subject to seizure from the innocent owner. Lucrative Business Seizure of private property has become so lucrative that competition has become fierce among agencies. In a given case, there may be agents of the DEA, the IRS, and Customs all vying for the seized goods. The defendant becomes the "only bone in a pen full of hungry dogs." Bounties are paid to informers. State and local agencies are cut in. Even the Judicial system can get a cut. When a group benefits, all of the members of the group benefit. A government agency is no different. The chain reaction in the civil forfeiture scheme causes a "trickle down" of prosperity throughout an agency. Give an individual a way to benefit himself, make it legal, and he will never run out of reasons why it is good and proper. Prior to the
Re: [CTRL] DON'T BLAME JFK
Quite true. The connection in Vietnam devolved to the drug business which the CIA had a major hand in. The death of JFK had more to do with our escalation in Vietnam than his being in office did. The war served as excellent cover for drug smuggling and huge profits by our so-called intelligence agencies and the Big Businesses which back them. On Sun, 27 August 2000, "[to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote: In a message dated 08/20/2000 4:16:19 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This, too, is reminiscent of Vietnam, where President John F. Kennedy engaged the U.S. without consulting the handful of officials who actually knew something about Hanoi, Dien Bien Phu, Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong. ... Correction. Don't blame John Kennedy for the war in Viet Nam. President John Kennedy did not "engage the U.S." in Vietnam. The U.S. was "engaged" by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, starting at least by the time France was defeated at the battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. The so-called "French Connection".the opium and heroin trafficking from the "golden triangle" of indochina became the "American Connection", following the French defeat. That's what Air America was all about. U.S. engagement in Vietnam continued to grow for at least 7 years before John Kennedy became President. In November 1963, Kennedy issued a National Security Action Memorandum which ordered all Americans out of Viet Nam by the end of 1964. At the time of this Presidential Order, there were less than 16,000 Americans in Viet Nam. John Kennedy was assassinated just 20 days after he gave that order. Lyndon Johnson cancelled Kennedy's order (NSAM), and eventually ordered more than half a million U.S. military personnel into the quagmire in Viet Nam. Regards to All Nakano A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Endless bullshit from
I must agree with Nessie here. Whatever welfare trickles down to the truly needy in this country is far outstripped by the corporate welfare paid to big business. The rich and big business are the leaches on society as it exists in this country today. That's not to say that there aren't people collecting money who could just as easily get a job, but what makes them any worse than the corporate bigwigs who take advantage of the same thing? On Sun, 27 August 2000, nessie wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: I n a welfare state, where the government steals from the productive and gives to the lazy, the indolent, and the anti-social, In a capitalist economy the lazy, indolent, parasitic rich leech off the ordinary workers (like you and me) who do the actual pruduction and distribution of goods and services. The rich produce nothing. They suck on our neck. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Werner von Braun - was I WAS DICK CHENEY'S SEX SLAVE'
I thought it was obvious that I meant the Germany of the Nazi regime in power during WWII. I have nothing against Germans as a people or nation. The taint is associated with the Nazis since they were in power during much of the time that this technology was developed and they used ruthless and bloody means to test and build it. On Sat, 12 August 2000, "Damian B. Cooper" wrote: At 04:25 PM 8/11/00 -0700, tenebroust [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too bad this technology will always be tainted by the blood and death perpetrated by the Germans, and every country since them (and before for that matter). Well, then, wouldn't it logically and humanely follow that to save the world from the "blood and death" that WILL be perpetrated by Germans in the future that we should quietly and humanely exterminate them all now? You will undoubtedly enjoy reading "Germany Must Perish", by Theodore Kaufmann. DBC A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space Odyssey ___ Free Unlimited Internet Access! Try it now! http://www.zdnet.com/downloads/altavista/index.html ___ A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fiction is stranger than truth?
AH! Delta Green. Well, this is "fiction" writing in the tradition of Lovecraft with a modern edge. Delta Green is a covert and illegal operation within the government of the US who views its duty as rooting out the minions of the Old Ones and others of the Cthulhu Myth Cycle and stopping their attempts at causing madness and destruction. I highly recommend the books and the web-site. It is all very interesting stuff, and merely fiction. . .but I have often wondered at how the actual events and high strangness of history and existence (at least at times) correlates so well with much of what Lovecraft started with his so-called myth cycle, as well as by the continued propagation of it by countless writers over the years. On Sat, 12 August 2000, Kris Millegan wrote: from: http://www.delta-green.com/home.html Click Here: A HREF="http://www.delta-green.com/home.html"Delta-Green.com/A - Search: "Evil never dies. Darkness never retreats. In the cracks and the crevices of our society there are monsters undreamed of by the rank and file of humanity. I've been there. I've seen them. They exist in the spaces between things, in the folds of existence where we can't find them. Sometimes they cross over, sometimes they manifest, and all hell breaks loose. Only this is not Hell, nor Heaven. This is like nothing anyone has ever understood. This is pure evil, pure destruction. This is the Apocalypse." -- Maj. Gen. Reginald Fairfield, U.S. Army (Ret.), 25 FEB 1994 More Tales of Terror Ideas. You want 'em. We got 'em. By the dozen, in all shapes and sizes. From ugly little beasts to raving monstrosities, and every horror in between. Scenario idea after scenario idea for Call of Cthulhu, each with three different ways to implement them so your players never know what's coming. Fresh, hot, and juicy, straight from the grill of grue--and bloody, bloody rare . . . Click the book above to find out more! Accessing delta-green.com... Access approved. Accessing file... WELCOME TO THE DELTA GREEN WEB SERVER This is a database of critical information to be shared among case officers, agents, and other authorized parties. LAST UPDATE: 29 JUN 2000 RELEASED BY: Christopher APPROVED BY: Alphonse, Adam [Cell A] UPDATE - 18 JULY 2000: Friendlies report that two Delta Green simulation manuals were recognized in the Origins Awards for Game Design, described as "the Oscars of gaming." DELTA GREEN: COUNTDOWN was awarded for Outstanding Achievement in Roleplaying Supplement Design, and DELTA GREEN: THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT was awarded for Outstanding Game-Related Novel. Congratulations to the authors of these manuals for their fine work in expanding the influence of our group. LATEST INTELLIGENCE: New files at Delta-Green.com include a number of Case Histories, a chilling Field Report, several pieces of Imagery Intelligence, documentation of a dedicated Delta Green IRC server, an Agent Dossier, and one humor article in Section 8. Archival of the high-traffic Delta Green Mailing List continues on a more-or-less daily basis. ADDITIONAL INTELLIGENCE: A second printing of DELTA GREEN EYES ONLY VOLUME THREE: PROJECT RAINBOW is now in progress, and the book should be available for shipping by mid-July. DGEO3 is not sold in stores, and is only available through front company Pagan Publishing's mail-order catalog, The Outsider. Details may be found on their web site: www.tccorp.com. Interested parties can obtain the latest intelligence from front company Tynes Cowan Corporation (ref Operation PAGAN PUBLISHING) by subscribing to the Pagan Publishing announcement list. Agents and friendlies alike should sign up at the Tynes Cowan Corporation website to be added to the list. Write for Delta-Green.com! Your reports could be critical to other readers. Click here to learn more. S I T E I N D E X Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for one's self. Click here if you dare to seek the truth. Case files, research and analysis, imagery, dossiers, and other vital intelligence can be found here. * Items of Mutual Interest (Primary documents.) It's a dangerous world out there, and Delta Green can't investigate everything. Here are an assortment of anomalous incidents, briefings, and training scenarios that we haven't yet checked out. Enterprising agents are encouraged to examine these documents and pursue them with diligence. If you do, send any completed reports to Case Officer Christopher. * Reports from the Field (Mission reports.) Cell A has authorized the distribution of these final reports from actual Delta Green operations, both successful and calamitous. Read and learn. * Case Histories (Short stories.) A DG agent is a person of many talents. Some of our more literary-minded
Re: [CTRL] Werner von Braun - was I WAS DICK CHENEY'S SEX SLAVE'
You've nicely summed up the Paperclip operation and the role of Von Braun as well. One should note that V.B. also designed spacecraft in the 1930's that were supposed to go to Mars. Much other technology, including that which is used for political, and thought control, as well as spying, etc., owes its existence to developments made by the Germans at the time. One must wonder at times whos hand controls history when we see a country so absolutely rife with genius in everything technological be ultimately defeated by nations that are distant seconds at best. Germany certainly was a marvel, and we are the inheritors of much of what they developed, and certainly have done more in the years since the war to further the aims of the Germans. Too bad this technology will always be tainted by the blood and death perpetrated by the Germans, and every country since them (and before for that matter). On Fri, 11 August 2000, "Robert F. Tatman" wrote: *Both* the US and Soviet space programs, and through them every other space program, relied on German missile technology. The US and the Soviets split the original Peenemuende team between them, although von Braun did his best to get as many of his men as possible into the hands of the Americans. Although the V-2 production facilities in Thuringia fell in the Soviet sector of Occupied Germany, the cream of the senior production staff (including the commander of the Mittelwerke and supervisor of the attached concentration camp) surrendered to the Americans, by design. Every missile or spaceship launched from this planet since 1945 has been based on the German designs and design philosophy. Now, it is certainly true that both Goddard, the American rocketry pioneer, and Tsiolkovsky, the Russian rocketry pioneer, could have led comparable development operations which would inevitably have led to highly successful rocket designs, but the fact remains that it was the Germans, led by von Braun, who prevailed by a quirk of historical fate. I don't know how history will ultimately judge von Braun, or for that matter the Americans and Russians who took over the German research in the name of the Cold War. But the man was a technological genius, beyond doubt. He may well also have been guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity, but justice belongs to the victors, and by the time the Nuremberg Trials convened, von Braun and his Paperclip team were safely secure in White Sands, New Mexico, and--like so many other "former" Nazis who had turned their coats--under the protecting aegis of the United States Government. - Original Message - From: "Samantha L." [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Werner von Braun - was I WAS DICK CHENEY'S SEX SLAVE' In a message dated 8/11/00 1:03:59 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: With von Braun on our side - we beat the bastards to the moon which was dream of JFK; but look who takes or tried to take the bows here recently, attempting to use even little John John.so now father and son both dead.and they did take a Gideon Bible to the moon. Whatever aspirations the US had, if it could not achieve them without the aid of Nazis, they weren't worth achieving. Our country did survive in name, but look where we are now? We are a national security state that feeds its own people into the machine of survival. Better that our country risk annihilation than lose her soul. snip A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in
Re: [CTRL] Jeffrey MacDonald DNA Timeline--Green Beret Family Slaughter
This case has always fascinated me, and deserves to have a second and impartial look. One must understand that is cases such as this (and Einhorn's case as well) there is absolutely NO desire on the part of the Prosecution to have the evidence reevaluated, because should they prove to be in error they look like fools. There is more to this man's conviction than meets the eye, and rumors of drug trafficking on the base and Macdonald's knowledge thereof puts it into the domain of the CIA and others who wish it kept under wraps. On Mon, 07 August 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]: From: "Lloyd Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Jeffrey MacDonald DNA Timeline--Green Beret Family Slaughter Date: Sunday, July 30, 2000 5:07 AM Justice Dept. DNA Stonewall indicates cover-up? The Murder Night, February 17, 1970 On a cold, rainy night at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, military policemen responded to a telephone call from Green Beret group surgeon Dr. Jeffrey R. MacDonald. Upon their arrival at his darkened apartment, the MPs discovered the horribly slaughtered bodies of Captain MacDonald's wife, Colette, 26, and their daughters Kimberly, 5, and Kristen, 2. An MP revived MacDonald through mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. MacDonald told that he had been asleep on the sofa when he awoke to the screams of his wife and oldest daughter. Three men, standing over the sofa, attacked him, he said. They were a black man wearing an army field jacket with E-6 stripes, and two white men, apparently under the influence of drugs. MacDonald said that the black man, who showed no signs of being drugged, wielded a baseball bat. The two white men had used bladed weapons. Behind these men, MacDonald said he had caught a fleeting glimpse of a blonde woman wearing a floppy hat. She chanted, "Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs." MacDonald told the MPs, "She carried a flickering light, perhaps a candle. - Original Message - From: "Alex Constantine" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Kris" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 2:35 AM Subject: Jeffrey MacDonald DNA Timeline http://www.themacdonaldcase.org/dnatime.htm Background on the use of DNA testing to disprove convictions The chain of events since Dr. MacDonald won the right to conduct DNA testing in October, 1997 1. 1989-90: First use of DNA in a criminal case, using only nuclear DNA, which requires a relatively large sample in good condition. 2. 1996: FBI Laboratory begins using DNA in criminal cases, utilizing both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA. The mitochondrial variant can be taken from smaller samples of biological material in less pristine conditions than are required for nuclear DNA testing. 3. April, 1997: Inspector General Michael Bromwich of the Department of Justice releases a long-awaited report on the FBI lab. He finds the lab seriously deficient, and scathingly names one FBI agent, Michael Malone, as having testified falsely in the Alcee Hastings case. 4. April 16, 1997: The Wall Street Journal prints a large, front-page investigative story regarding Michael Malone's actions in a series of cases, culminating in an expose of Malone's fraudulent testimony in the MacDonald case. (It was Malone's testimony that caused the Federal courts to deny Dr. MacDonald's appeal regarding the presence of wig hairs at the crime scene, thought to be from Helena Stoeckley's wig.) 5. April 22, 1997: Dr. MacDonald files a federal appeal, attempting to reopen the prior appeal that was rejected based on Malone's false testimony. Included in this 1997 appeal is new evidence regarding the wig fibers, plus other new evidence. ** In addition, this appeal requested that the court order DNA testing on the biologic exhibits in the MacDonald case. 6. May, 1997: The government, still led by prosecutor Brian Murtagh, begins a massive campaign to have Dr. MacDonald's new information denied by the court. In their legal filings, the government requests the court to not allow DNA testing in the MacDonald case. 7. October 17, 1997: The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals orders DNA testing in the case. Specifically, the court order is direct and clear: "It is adjudged and ordered that the motion with respect to DNA testing is granted, and the issue is remanded (sent back to) the District Court." (All other portions of the appeal are denied.) 8. October 1997-December 1998: The government mounts a fierce campaign to prevent or delay the tests, and to limit the scope of the testing. Specifically, the government prosecutor says: a. The defense should not be allowed both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA tests, but should have to choose one or the other. b. The defense should be limited to certain exhibits, and not be allowed access to all the biologic exhibits, i.e. limit defense
