Re: New required base packages for Amiga, Atari, ... detection
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roman Hodek) wrote on 17.12.97 in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There are now some packages for m68k that make sense only on a specific machine type. Currently we have such packages only for Atari, but others can follow easily. The packages are nvram and setsccserial, and atari-fdisk is about to be debianized. Is this any different from Intel packages that only make sense when you have specific hardware installed? We have several of those. MfG Kai -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: What warrants a non-maintainer release number?
Santiago Vila [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 17 Dec 1997, James Troup wrote: Michael Alan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is part of an email exchange Sven and I had. Simply put, I put in a new alpha binary of dpkg-1.4.0.19 that represented nothing but a recompile to pick up new libg++, ncurses, etc. Sven suggested that this warranted a non-maintainer-release number, whereas I had gotten the idea that non-maintainer-releases suggested code changes. I hope Guy will reject that. If the binary changes, the version number should change. This is that way because our package system does not allow several binary packages for the same source package. True. But it should. Maybe. Or not. How often do we need it and how much of a mess would this add? IMHO the reason why Michael Alan Dorman hesitated to increase the version number is that he considered the alpha-specific recompile a change that should not affect any other architecture. Please note that such considerations didn't occur with the big libc6 recompile for i386. In the end such an architecture-specific recompile implemented as non-maintainer release will cause recompiles on all architectures. This is only a problem when this happens too often. IMHO the current state doesn't have too much impact, because: - either the recompile is done manually. Then the person doing this can choose to not build a binary architecture for an architecture where this isn't necessary. - or the recompile is done automatically, then it doesn't consume human time. hello_1.3-0 (compilation 0) is older than hello_1.3-0 (compilation 1) and dpkg will see the need to upgrade. This might make a good idea, but I think it is too much change for too few cases. Sven -- Sven Rudolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sax.de/~sr1/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
ppp ppp-pam
Hi,
It seems that the only file that needs to be changed between ppp with PAM, and
ppp without PAM is /usr/bin/pppd itself.
This being the case I thought I'd produce two packages, ppp ppp-pam.
ppp will contain the current setup, compiled without PAM support, and ppp-pam
will contain just /usr/bin/pppd, and have preinst/postrm to handle diverting
ppp's pppd.
ppp will have:
Recommends: ppp-pam
ppp-pam:
Depends: ppp (=same version)
Does this sound reasonable ?
Is there an automatic way of setting the current version of a package into the
Depends (a la ${shlibs:Depends}) ?
Cheers, Phil.
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Near and long term plans for the new emacs20 package.
OK, after digesting the recent conversations about what needs to be done for the various Debian emacsen (thanks everyone). I've come to the following conclusions: There's a substantial amount of work to do to get this problem solved properly: to allow simultaneous install of all flavors, to support the auto-generation of .elc files when appropriate, and to allow elisp files to be easily shared when appropriate. Coming up with the right answer is going to require a conversation with the various emacs and emacs package developers, a policy proposal, and a (hopefully reasonably) brief revision process to be followed by an implementation. In the end, this is what I want to do, but it's going to take longer than I'm willing to wait with respect to getting an initial emacs20 package out. So, unless there's a good objection, I'm going to provide a short-term solution before working on the larger problem. I'm going to release an emacs20 package that's similar to the existing emacs 19 package. It won't coexist with xemacs any better than the current package, and it probably won't move the relevant files to /usr/share. Since it's byte-file compatible with the current emacs 19 package it won't have to conflict (I hope), so the install should be pretty painless. This will also keep me from biting off more than I can chew. I can get comfortable with the emacs build process and source, and make sure I get all the bugs worked out before tackling the bigger issues. Comments? -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
I wonder if `dpkg' tracks the installation date of a package, whether it should if it doesn't, or why it doesn't if that is the case. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp ppp-pam
On Thu, Dec 18, 1997 at 12:17:43AM +, Philip Hands wrote: This being the case I thought I'd produce two packages, ppp ppp-pam. ppp will contain the current setup, compiled without PAM support, and ppp-pam will contain just /usr/bin/pppd, and have preinst/postrm to handle diverting ppp's pppd. ppp will have: Recommends: ppp-pam If I recall correct, Recommends means you have to override dselect by pressing Q to leave the dependencies screen; for new users, they will end up installing ppp-pam just to shut up dselect. Suggests might be better (it is more friendly in dselect). Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Reply-To a no-go
Well, I'm tired of this discussion. I'm also tired of downloading the same messages over and over again. I'm unsubscribing from this list (actually, I already did). If anybody wishes to follow up on any topic we have touched upon, do so via e-mail. I hope the list maintainers find a solution to the issues discussed in the previous messages. Many people suggested switching to mutt or gnus; these may be great mail clients, but I can't make everybody else on the list use them. Suggesting them as a solution for this problem is like saying: A: Windows TCP/IP is broken, and should not be used in the Internet B: That's OK; let's make everybody use the BSD implementation... I wish it could be done, but it can't. So, good-bye and farewell. I'll remain a Debian supporter anyway. -- Gonzalo Diethelm # Windows 95: n. 32-bit extensions and a graphical shell for [EMAIL PROTECTED] # a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally =Debian Linux= # coded for a 4-bit microprocessor, written by a 2-bit www.debian.org # company that can't stand for 1 bit of competition. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
dpkg help wanted
I'm preparing the new version of amaya. (I believe it's ready except for this one final detail.) The version I'm releasing is amaya_1.1c-1, it is going into the web section of hamm (main distribution). I want it to be an upgrade path for the following: amaya-static_0.95-1 amaya_0.95-1 thot-common_2.0b-1 Which are in non-free. I need the following to happen: 1. If a user has amaya-static or amaya, dselect should replace it with amaya 2. If the above is true, thot-common is installed; I want dselect to remove it (and not allow it at the same time as the new amaya). 3. The ftp site puts the new package in the correct location. What exactly do I need to do to make this happen. I'm thinking something along the lines of: Conflicts: thot-common Replaces: amaya-static in the amaya part of the control file, and Section: web at the top of the control file. Will this do the trick? Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
New packages: xbae and xacc
Hi, I'm intending to package xacc (X Accountant), a financial tracking program (somewhat like quicken). It's a motif app, but works with lesstif, and is GPLed. Xacc uses the XbaeMatrix Motif widget (which provides a grid of fields, like a spreadsheet), so I'm going to package that as well. Xbae has a BSD-like license (which I include below in case anyone wants to give it a quick once over). -- Copyright (c) 1991, 1992 Bell Communications Research, Inc. (Bellcore) Copyright (c) 1995-97 Andrew Lister All Rights Reserved. Permission to use, copy, modify and distribute this material for any purpose and without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notices and this permission notice appear in all copies, and that the name of any author not be used in advertising or publicity pertaining to this material without the specific, prior written permission of an authorized representative of Bellcore and current maintainer. BELLCORE AND OTHER CONTRIBUTORS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AND EXTEND NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO THE INFORMATION, INCLUDING, BUTNOTLIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND THE WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT OFPATENTS OR OTHER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED AS IS, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL ANY AUTHOR OR ANY OF THEIR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY LOST PROFITS OR OTHER INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES RELATING TO THE INFORMATION. -- Tyson Dowd # If I'm unusually agressive in this email, it's # probably because USENET has been down here for [EMAIL PROTECTED]# over a week, and I'm missing my usual dosage http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~trd # of flamewars. My apologies in advance. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Service registration
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Say, ferinstance, that several revisions of a package are installed and there are subtly different arguments each time. Or, that package installation fails, is backed out, then installed then reconfigured? Several clients or servers? Clients would remove or install themselves whenever in their prerm and postinstall, respectively. You could of course have several hooks for one service. Simplest solution is to only track the last hookfile event, but that only works if each call is complete unto itself. On the other hand, we want to maintain existing configuration information, should the system administrator have needed to reconfigure things. The calls are complete unto themselves, as I allow any arbitrary arguments to be added to the end. The server doesn't have to interpret every argument, only the ones which apply to it. For example there might be an X and a console server for a particular service. The client would install itself with all the information that both need. Yes, there's no way that a client can provide different information to different servers of the same service, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. You focus on the service, not the individual clients and servers. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Service registration
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This will not work for packages like Gnus, bbdb, w3, hyperbole, vm, and psgml, since the compilation requires selectively preloading some files, or even running complex build-scripts during the compilation of the elisp files. Why can't they be run from the hook then? The client can register its build script. The server (different versions of emacs or xemacs) would then run the build script, compiling it to its own byte code. Let us not solidify policy that is unworkable for a majority of the independent elisp packages. My solution is meant to solve more than just elisp. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Service registration
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Say, ferinstance, that several revisions of a package are installed and there are subtly different arguments each time. Or, that package installation fails, is backed out, then installed then reconfigured? Guy Maor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Several clients or servers? Clients would remove or install themselves whenever in their prerm and postinstall, respectively. Clients. My point has to do with configuration information where default values are given on the command line. Anyways, it sounds like you're on top of this aspect. -- Raul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp pam (was: Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts')
Philip Hands wrote:
ppp is needed for doing an install from the internet via a dialup link. PAM
is not needed until you want people to log into the system, so libpam is a
waste of space on the install disks.
The only advantage I can see is a couple of kilobytes of space on the
installation floppies. Otherwise, ppp is optional anyway. So I'd
prefer to see pppd stay as one package and linked with pam.
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Re: What warrants a non-maintainer release number?
James Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If the binary changes, the version number should change. Things break if you don't increase the version number (e.g. automatic upgrade and bug reporting) and you don't have to a source release to do a non-maintainer release, just add a new entry to the changelog before you recompile. I agree. Remember that many people won't even *notice* this new version of the package because dselect won't tell them about it. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While I agree that Gnus is the best thing since sliced bread, keep in mind those in other countries where net access is *much* more expensive. I hardly think the duplicate messages represent a significant percentage of their bandwidth. For these people, deleting the duplicates after they download them is closing the barn door after the horses have eaten the chickens. More privacy for the horses. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: writev questions - epic maintainer speaks
According to Stevens on page 300, writev is atomic, so I would regard Linux's behavior as a bug. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: 2.0.32, XNvidia, Vtk
Alexander Supalov wrote:
I saw today that Linux kernel 2.0.32 had been released as a Debian
package. Is it safe to upgrade the existing Debian.1.3.r4 to this
kernel? What about all the libc6 stuff? Should I have it installed or
should I better wait until the the next major Debian release arrives?
If so, when will this happen?
You should be able to install it onto a bo system.
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Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
On 17 Dec 1997, Guy Maor wrote: download them is closing the barn door after the horses have eaten the chickens. Horses are vegetarians anyway. Will -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ | -- |If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. | | -- Taken from Hennesey and Patterson,| | _Computer_Organization_And_Design_:_The_Hardware_/_Software_Interface_ | -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp ppp-pam
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Recommends: ppp-pam Recommends is for packages found together in all but unusual sitations. It's certainly not appropriate here. I wouldn't even use Suggests. Just mention it in the description. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: dpkg help wanted
Steve Dunham [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. If a user has amaya-static or amaya, dselect should replace it with amaya 2. If the above is true, thot-common is installed; I want dselect to remove it (and not allow it at the same time as the new amaya). 3. The ftp site puts the new package in the correct location. Conflicts: thot-common Replaces: thotcommon, amaya-static And just make the section be web. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
[SL Baur steve@xemacs.org] Schedule version number change, new mailing list
I hope this doesn't bug anyone too much... I think it's relevant to the current Emacs/XEmacs threads, and adds better information to my last message in that thread, the one about unbundling elisp packages from XEmacs. This arrived a while after I'd posted that. ---BeginMessage--- There has been a slight change of plans with the source code tree currently named `20.4'. It's not going to be ready for the scheduled release of early 1998. XEmacs `20.4' is hereby renamed to `20.5'. Saturday's beta will be numbered `20.5-beta12 Bhuj'. The official 20.3 maintenance patches will continue to be collected and once things settle down, they will be released as XEmacs 20.4 next month. By popular demand, the xemacs-mule mailing list has been created. To subscribe send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the magic word subscribe in the body. Anything XEmacs/Mule related is on-topic, including auxiliary software like Kinput2 and Wnn. This is a multilingual list. ---End Message---
Re: redirecting stderr to memory
Enrique Zanardi wrote:
Memory penalty. As busybox and dinstall are linked together in this
implementation, forking implies doubling the already big memory
requirements. Perhaps we should implement a libbusybox.so ...
No it does not, thanks to Linux shared memeory.
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Re: Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
Karl M. Hegbloom wrote:
I wonder if `dpkg' tracks the installation date of a package, whether
it should if it doesn't, or why it doesn't if that is the case.
You could try the modification date of
/var/lib/dpkg/info/package.list.
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Re: writev questions - epic maintainer speaks
On Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 09:22:51PM -0800, Guy Maor wrote: According to Stevens on page 300, writev is atomic, so I would regard Linux's behavior as a bug. On one tty I start wserv, the offending program with the writev: @chimchim [/usr/lib/epic4] $ ./wserv chimchim 9000 On another, a 'server': @chimchim [~] $ nc -l -p 4000 /dev/ttyp6 There is a newline, it's transmitted fine, but, here is the tcpdump: ~#tcpdump -ilo tcpdump: listening on lo 22:09:03.408257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: S 1060566270:1060566270(0) win 512 mss 3544 22:09:03.408257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: S 1060566270:1060566270(0) win 512 mss 3544 22:09:03.408257 chimchim.9000 chimchim.: S 1443016150:1443016150(0) ack 1060566271 win 32736 mss 3544 22:09:03.408257 chimchim.9000 chimchim.: S 1443016150:1443016150(0) ack 1060566271 win 32736 mss 3544 22:09:03.408257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: . ack 1 win 31896 (DF) 22:09:03.408257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: . ack 1 win 31896 (DF) 22:09:03.488257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: P 1:12(11) ack 1 win 31896 (DF) 22:09:03.488257 chimchim. chimchim.9000: P 1:12(11) ack 1 win 31896 (DF) 22:09:03.508257 chimchim.9000 chimchim.: . ack 12 win 32736 (DF) 22:09:03.508257 chimchim.9000 chimchim.: . ack 12 win 32736 (DF) Looks like two packets were sent? All the numbers seem to be the same.. I'm in over my head, I think - is there someone here who could forward this to an appropriate place, or, better, tell me to forget it because it is being worked on:-) Grumble.. it's frustrating to run into this stuff:-( -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Excuse my recent broken emails
For the past two days, I've been sending out email with a broken From address - using whatever dynamic IP I happened to be on at the moment. I finally noticed it just now and fixed it. Gremlins had snuck into my room and commented out (setq user-mail-address ...) ! So if you sent private email me to by replying to a post I made, I'll most likely never get it. Guy -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: /sbin/hwclock and /etc/init.d/boot
On 14 Dec 1997, Miquel van Smoorenburg wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Douglas Bates [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think I will also have a problem the next time I reboot because it looks as if /etc/init.d/boot will never get run. Doesn't matter, it isn't being used anymore. It has been replaced with the /etc/rsS.d stuff. I begg your pardon? Isn't '/etc/init.d/boot' used any more? --- Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL! ^\\\/ Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED] SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo My PGP key can be found at: 'www5.tripnet.se/~turbo/pgp.html' Key fingerprint = B7 92 93 0E 06 94 D6 22 98 1F 0B 5B FE 33 A1 0B --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
ldd strange behaviour
i have a c++ program compiled with no debug flag. when i do an ldd on the executable i get the following: ldd ./vat libtk8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtk8.0.so.1 (0x4000f000) libtcl8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtcl8.0.so.1 (0x400af000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40115000) libnsl.so.1 = /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x401b8000) libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401be000) ---libstdc++.so.2.7.2 = /usr/lib/libg++-dbg/libstdc++.so.2.7.2 (0x401c1000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401fe000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40218000) if i take /usr/lib/libg++-dbg out of /etc/ld.so.conf an rerun 'ldconfig -v' i get this: ldd ./vat libtk8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtk8.0.so.1 (0x4000f000) libtcl8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtcl8.0.so.1 (0x400af000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40115000) libnsl.so.1 = /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x401b8000) libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401be000) ---libstdc++.so.2.7.2 = /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.2.7.2 (0x401c1000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401fe000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40219000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4000) which, i think, should be the right dependency. is this a bug? which version of the c++ library is the program actually linked against? i have both libg++272-dbg and libg++272-dev installed (version 2.7.2.8-0.1 from hamm). ldd is from ldso-1.9.6-2. any clues? --alex-- -- | I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active | | advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with | | automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion | | and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. | -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: /sbin/hwclock and /etc/init.d/boot
I think I will also have a problem the next time I reboot because it looks as if /etc/init.d/boot will never get run. Doesn't matter, it isn't being used anymore. It has been replaced with the /etc/rsS.d stuff. I begg your pardon? Isn't '/etc/init.d/boot' used any more? Take a really close look at /etc/rc?.d, and you'll understand what's going on. Or if you want to cheat, read /etc/init.d/README -- Todd Graham Lewis Manager of Web Engineering(800) 719-4664, x2804 **Linux** MindSpring Enterprises [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Service registration
Hi, Guy == Guy Maor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guy Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This will not work for packages like Gnus, bbdb, w3, hyperbole, vm, and psgml, since the compilation requires selectively preloading some files, or even running complex build-scripts during the compilation of the elisp files. Guy Why can't they be run from the hook then? The client can Guy register its build script. The server (different versions of Guy emacs or xemacs) would then run the build script, compiling it to Guy its own byte code. Because the normal build process is to say make build; and it may need files that may not be available. Also, a script is not easy to build from a complex multi directory make process: case in point: tm-7.106. I maintain a local deb package (I have no real reason for not using the official package), so I know how complex that is. Please do not misunderstand me, I like the proposal, but it does not solve all the problems for all elisp packages. We still need an elisp solution for packages like tm. manoj whi like his random sig generator -- The length of debate varies inversely with the complexity of the issue. Robert Knowles Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Adam P. Harris wrote:
Maybe I should submit this as a wishlist to the bug system, but I was
interested in getting some comments first.
I think that /etc/ppp/ip-up and /etc/ppp/ip-down should use
'run-parts' against, say, the directories /etc/ppp/ip-{up,down}.d/.
Sounds like a good idea to me... Why not '/etc/ip[01].d'? (0 for down, and 1
for up...)
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Re: Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
Hi, Karl M. Hegbloom wrote: I wonder if `dpkg' tracks the installation date of a package, whether it should if it doesn't, or why it doesn't if that is the case. There was some discussion on the deity list about providing complete audit trails of package management, and it was agreed that various time stamps need to be genrated to provide the level of auditing we wanted. It was also decided that since deity is an optional front end, the implementation would have to be done in dpkg, since otherwise the audit trail would be missing events, and that is worse than no audit trail, and hence the topic was dropped on the deity list. maybe it is time to bringup the discussion on this list? manoj -- You don't go out and kick a mad dog. If you have a mad dog with rabies, you take a gun and shoot him. Pat Robertson, TV Evangelist, about Muammar Kadhafy Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
On 18 Dec 1997, Manoj Srivastava wrote: maybe it is time to bringup the discussion on this list? The lack of an audit trail is really regrettable in dpkg. After all, it is as much a system tool as any other program I can think of; why it is bashful about using the system's log facility is beyond me. Count mine as one vote for a new LOG_DEBIAN facility. -- Todd Graham Lewis Manager of Web Engineering(800) 719-4664, x2804 **Linux** MindSpring Enterprises [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
[comp.os.linux.announce] Linus Torvalds Receives 1997 Nokia Foundation Award (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: 18 Dec 1997 11:16:55 +0200 From: Harvey J. Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [comp.os.linux.announce] Linus Torvalds Receives 1997 Nokia Foundation Award -- Harvey J. Stein Berger Financial Research [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Start of forwarded message --- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce Subject: Linus Torvalds Receives 1997 Nokia Foundation Award Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 14:53:01 GMT Organization: none Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- PRESS RELEASE December 10, 1997 Linus Torvalds Receives 1997 Nokia Foundation Award Nokia Foundation has granted its 1997 Award to Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux operating system and one of the most famous young Finnish researchers in the area of information technology in the world. The Award is worth FIM 50,000. Nokia Foundation was formed in 1995 to support the development of scientific competence and educational capabilities of information and telecommunications technologies in Finland. This year the foundation also granted scholarships to 26 post-graduate students and five teams supporting interaction between universities and the industry. Additionally, the Foundation granted a visiting fellowship to two well-known professors to participate in study groups at the Finnish universities. The total of the Award, scholarship and fellowship is FIM 913,000. In selecting the award winner, the Foundation emphasized Linus Torvalds' excellent achievements in information and telecommunications technology and especially his inspiring example for young researchers. The Linux operating system developed by Torvalds is one of the most popular Unix operating systems, particularly on PC-based Web servers. In his speech today at the Nokia Foundation Grant Holder Announcement event, Nokia President and CEO Jorma Ollila emphasized the importance of education, research and development in maintaining the competitiveness of the Finnish telecoms industry. He commented that study time is too long in Finland: If we could shorten the study time by one year, for example, and spend that time on effective research and development work, we would remarkably strengthen our national competitiveness. This cannot mean sacrifices in quality, Ollila emphasized, shortening the study time means making studies more effective, and not lowering their quality. This supports the way to learn to learn new things more in depth - a skill we will all need more and more often in the future. We will really need people with capabilities to learn and take in new things rapidly, Ollila noted. According to Ollila, increasingly more distinct goal setting and rapid enter to the market will be also increasingly more necessary for the research and development work. This should be evident in the internal projects of companies as well as in the public-funded projects. For further information, please contact: Mr Simo Luiro Nokia Research Center Tel. (Int.) +358 9 4376 6468 http://www.nokia.com - -- This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP. http://www.iki.fi/mjr/cola-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature. Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION. This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/liw/linux/cola.html -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBNJfnTVrUI/eHXJZ5AQGNRAP/Vsq25qAx+/tWmo2rSt92GeNoUw2I0Rxi PsVQDdHW1C6OCDapVlJtbe2/uXseQaGzrwPN+9ToKvz0n1p2MrqxxiUUBkaWMffI HbaLKMdJCSjzR/gRqBd7l2buGQV15ioSpDYcUxS1RNjQPaea8a6xcMzxLLWV2Tzv J4gmdtrqELA= =PFQc -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- End of forwarded message --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
In advance I will wield my flame-resistant suit, and I feel certain that flames will be flung, though my intentions are good. I have posted a few other times, such unpopular ramblings. I apologize if anyone is caused pain or distress by my innocent postings, or resents them. I am trying to get at a larger issue. I surely don't know what I am talking about, so please don't misread me. I have never put together a debian packages, although I have often compiled various packages for my own systems from sources on the net---such experiences lead me to speculate on the nature of the linux package in contrast to the GNU approach of making the source code self configuring so it can almost install itself on any unix system that meets certain standards. To save your time, in what follows, I intend to naively ask (in s many words) whether the best approach would not be to make Debian GNU/Linux so robust, so intelligent, and so standard that it can compile any package intelligently, robustly, and successfully. I am surely wrong, but I understand very little of what I am writing about. So I am asking for feedback to help me understand, for example, the muddle in which I remain until this day about Debian's adamant adherence to some kind of non-standard policy of setting up headers (ie., not as established by Linus). I have had LOTS of trouble compiling linux 2.1.X kernels---in fact I have, in the past year and a half, only been able to successfully compile 2.1.66 and have it do the modest things I ask of it (ppp and printing) properly. I am really confused. I have been using Linux for a few years, since about 1994, because of what it can do. My introduction to emacs came by way of a copy of demacs, an MSDOS friendly version of emacs, and some gnuish msdos utilities, all of which was donated to my research project by the FSF. The usefulness of the utilities---mainly sort, ptx, less, and grep---led me to want more, hence I looked for Linux as soon as I was able to. Until now, my relationship with Linux is still based on the things it can do; I have taken a few computer-related coursed, but my main experience in the past decade + has been as a user. I have a bit more tolerance for grief than some, perhaps, and I haven't given up; though most of my colleagues do not choose to follow me, as their Mac and Wintel machines are in many ways more user friendly. In short, I am a user, and not a hacker. But still, a bit more kludge resistent than many, and willing to learn. Unix, Stallman suggested, was not the best of all possible operating systems, but it is good---good enough. As he suggested, the utilities were modular: each one could be written by a separate programmer, and as long as everyone adhered to that standard of release of unix utilities---including the provision of a man page, certain source code consistencies, etc.---they would all fit together. I bought into this philosophy. As I learned Linux, in spite of not being a hacker, I was able to bluff my way into such phenomenal feats as installation of emacs 20. There remain a lot of installs I still don't have the courage to try---ghostscript troubled me, for example, and to compile and install TeX from sources must be a feat indeed! But notice this fact---in spite of the complexities of emacs 20, it compiled without complaint, and installed into standard places on a linux box. I surely don't have everything working right. I HAVE been able to run an emacs 19.34 deb package without serious incompatibility. This suggests to me that at least part of what the Debian developers are doing is somehow redundant, when it comes to well written software that is set up to compile of a number of systems. I did not claim that there are not packages that I have balked at, or that didn't compile. In such cases I have found debian packages HIGHLY useful. In fact, I have not been able to set up sendmail or smail properly, even from the debian package, without considerable work. But most debian packages, happily, drop right in. And uninstall neatly. I have become an addict of the Debian system. That scares me. It scares me the more, noticing that some packages seem to have been set up according to whim of the developer. As I say, I am afraid this will all bring down flames on me, as has happened in the past. I am indeed over my head. But I would still like to bring this question out in the sunlight, that has been bothering me (especially when I cannot compile the kernel according to Linus's instructions): would it not be better to fight for the standard system that will enable compiling any old package---could this be done? Oh, well. I haven't even been able to read the debian diffs for gs. So it's all academic. I suspect and feel that what I am getting at, is what the FSF has done that has made the most difference in the Unix community overall, and what makes the GNU system great. The compatibility of unix-like systems
Re: Debian Administration tool
On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, Brian Bassett wrote: I recently switched to Debian from RedHat 4.2 and the one thing that I think that Debian could really use is an administration tool. Have a look at 'debian-admintool@lists.debian.org'... I have been working on a 'debianized' version of RH's admintools for about a year now, and it's more or less finnished... For a demo (soon to be released), have a look at my homepage... --- Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL! ^\\\/ Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED] SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo My PGP key can be found at: 'www5.tripnet.se/~turbo/pgp.html' Key fingerprint = B7 92 93 0E 06 94 D6 22 98 1F 0B 5B FE 33 A1 0B --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: writev questions - epic maintainer speaks
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Welton) wrote on 17.12.97 in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, Dec 17, 1997 at 09:22:51PM -0800, Guy Maor wrote: According to Stevens on page 300, writev is atomic, so I would regard Linux's behavior as a bug. On one tty I start wserv, the offending program with the writev: @chimchim [/usr/lib/epic4] $ ./wserv chimchim 9000 On another, a 'server': @chimchim [~] $ nc -l -p 4000 /dev/ttyp6 There is a newline, it's transmitted fine, but, here is the tcpdump: Umm - TCP? I'm not the TCP expert, but I understand that TCP doesn't ever guarantee where it's going to put packet boundaries. That's supposed to be a stream, and packet boundaries are supposed to be invisible to the upper layers, except for timing. MfG Kai -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: What warrants a non-maintainer release number?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Santiago Vila) wrote on 17.12.97 in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 17 Dec 1997, James Troup wrote: Michael Alan Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is part of an email exchange Sven and I had. Simply put, I put in a new alpha binary of dpkg-1.4.0.19 that represented nothing but a recompile to pick up new libg++, ncurses, etc. Sven suggested that this warranted a non-maintainer-release number, whereas I had gotten the idea that non-maintainer-releases suggested code changes. I hope Guy will reject that. If the binary changes, the version number should change. This is that way because our package system does not allow several binary packages for the same source package. But it should. Huh?! If the binary changes, the version number should change. It doesn't matter _why_ the binary changed. Several binary packages for the same source? What on earth has that to do with it?! Besides, how is it that the system doesn't allow it? I thought we had several of those. Stuff like, say, X. Things break if you don't increase the version number (e.g. automatic upgrade and bug reporting) and you don't have to a source release to do a non-maintainer release, just add a new entry to the changelog before you recompile. Again this is a limitation of our current source|binary packaging scheme. Does not mean it has to be that way. Sounds to me like exactly the way it _should_ be. What advantage do you see in *not* changing the version number? Changing the *source* version number would be a gratuitous change. We're talking of the Debian release version, here. I don't understand why that bugs you; it seems the right thing to me. It would be really nice to have something like epochs for binary packages coming from the same source. i.e. hello_1.3-0 (compilation 0) is older than hello_1.3-0 (compilation 1) and dpkg will see the need to upgrade. That would just needlessly confuse users. Gratuituous confusion is something we can do without, I think. MfG Kai -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Guy Maor) wrote on 16.12.97 in [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gonzalo A. Diethelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps you could point out how I could force all of those people with broken mailers and/or ideas to use one of your great mail clients, so I won't get four, five, six or more duplicates of the messages sent to the list. Gnus. Remember there are people that can't stand Emacs. MfG Kai -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp pam (was: Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts')
Philip Hands wrote: ppp is needed for doing an install from the internet via a dialup link. PAM is not needed until you want people to log into the system, so libpam is a waste of space on the install disks. The only advantage I can see is a couple of kilobytes of space on the installation floppies. Otherwise, ppp is optional anyway. So I'd prefer to see pppd stay as one package and linked with pam. I thought that, until I noticed that libpam depends upon libpam-util, which depends upon libpwdb0, which together come to about 180k compressed. Once a few other things on the base disks use PAM (if they ever do) then I can always dump ppp-pam, make ppp support PAM, and make ppp conflict with ppp-pam. In the mean time, I think the version on the base disks needs to stay as it is (i.e. no PAM) to avoid putting another hurdle in front of Debian-2.0. Cheers, Phil. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp pam (was: Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts')
Philip Hands wrote:
I thought that, until I noticed that libpam depends upon libpam-util, which
depends upon libpwdb0, which together come to about 180k compressed.
I think you should file a bug report against libpam so it doesn't depend on
libpam-util. I don't see why a library package should depend on a binary one.
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Re: ppp ppp-pam
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Recommends: ppp-pam Recommends is for packages found together in all but unusual sitations. It's certainly not appropriate here. I wouldn't even use Suggests. Just mention it in the description. I've gone for Suggests in the package I just uploaded. I'm open to persuasion on this one, but thought it was appropriate to put the Suggests in because the way I do upgrades tends not to involve me in reading all the descriptions on packages I've previously installed, so I for one would probably fail to notice the comment. Also, the PAP login support is actually broken without PAM (no password aging), and it does not seem like it's worth fixing when PAM is available. The only reason for spliting the package in the first place is for the base disks, otherwise people would not have the choice to leave PAM out (because I would have compiled it into the normal PPP package). I could be persuaded, since the non-PAM pppd is absolutely fine for dial-out, and if that's the reason someone wants it, why force them to install all the PAM drivel. Suggests seems to fit the bill quite well here. Tell me I'm wrong. Cheers, Phil. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: New required base packages for Amiga, Atari, ... detection
Is this any different from Intel packages that only make sense when you have specific hardware installed? We have several of those. It's not just that you have different hardware installed, but you have a totally different kind of computer... Roman -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
On Thu, Dec 18, 1997 at 07:28:08PM +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: feedback to help me understand, for example, the muddle in which I remain until this day about Debian's adamant adherence to some kind of non-standard policy of setting up headers (ie., not as established by Linus). I have had LOTS of trouble compiling linux 2.1.X kernels---in fact I have, in the past year and a half, only been able to successfully compile 2.1.66 and have it do the modest things I ask of it (ppp and printing) properly. I am really confused. No no, Linus agrees with our method. If you do really have problems compiling 2.1, then you must have a very old make-kpkg if you are using it; if you're not using it, you must be doing something wrong. The kernel sources are well aware that /usr/include/linux is not necessarily the include files in the kernel source and does not use them, and has not for months. This suggests to me that at least part of what the Debian developers are doing is somehow redundant, when it comes to well written software that is set up to compile of a number of systems. I did not claim that there are Certainly, we're providing precompiled binaries for programs that in a lot of cases are straight forward to install. However, there are other advantages; in particular, uninstalling software installed from source requires you to find each and every file installed by make install, which is hazardous at best. Debian has absolute package removal, of the sort Bill Gates could only dream. Also, some people don't want to compile from sources -- especially on slow machines or ones with low disk space, compilation is troublesome, especially for big software. And some people don't know enough to compile the software. I have become an addict of the Debian system. That scares me. It scares me the more, noticing that some packages seem to have been set up according to whim of the developer. But if these packages don't let you override their configuration with your defaults, then file a bug report! In fact, if a package provides a configuration other than the upstream default for reasons which are not entirely Debian integration issues, you could probably file a bug report for that too. Oh, yeah, and may I ask, while I'm at it, whether straight linux compiles (of 2.1.X kernels) should be expected to go ok on Debian boxes, or does one have to add another layer of wrappers, etc.? Can you convice me No need. make-kpkg is a nice tool which can built you a .deb of a kernel install it properly, but you don't have to use it. it's necessary? (I am truly dense; I have remained in a fog for YEARS over this issue). I'd like to resolve this issue, as I have to set up a PS/2 Model 50 (MCA and SCSI) as the first step in the estblishment of a gateway Isn't the model 50 a 286, ie not Linuxable? hamish -- Hamish Moffatt, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
Todd == Todd Graham Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Todd Count mine as one vote for a new LOG_DEBIAN facility. And while we're at it, let's make one for HTTP also. Anything else? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
Kai == Kai Henningsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kai Remember there are people that can't stand Emacs. Bliss. :-) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: What warrants a non-maintainer release number?
On 17 Dec 1997, Michael Alan Dorman wrote: This is part of an email exchange Sven and I had. Simply put, I put in a new alpha binary of dpkg-1.4.0.19 that represented nothing but a recompile to pick up new libg++, ncurses, etc. Sven suggested that this warranted a non-maintainer-release number, whereas I had gotten the idea that non-maintainer-releases suggested code changes. Policy people? Any suggestions? Found out today, that the source is missing some files, among them, the configure scripts... It also have some core files... --- Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL! ^\\\/ Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED] SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo My PGP key can be found at: 'www5.tripnet.se/~turbo/pgp.html' Key fingerprint = B7 92 93 0E 06 94 D6 22 98 1F 0B 5B FE 33 A1 0B --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
On 18 Dec 1997, Kai Henningsen wrote: Remember there are people that can't stand Emacs. Strange... :) --- Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL! ^\\\/ Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED] SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo My PGP key can be found at: 'www5.tripnet.se/~turbo/pgp.html' Key fingerprint = B7 92 93 0E 06 94 D6 22 98 1F 0B 5B FE 33 A1 0B --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: /sbin/hwclock and /etc/init.d/boot
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Todd Graham Lewis wrote: Take a really close look at /etc/rc?.d, and you'll understand what's going on. Or if you want to cheat, read /etc/init.d/README I used an older sysvinit, which I modified a lot... I have now upgraded... _MUCH_ cleaner... --- Turbo_ /// If there are no Amigas in heaven, send me to HELL! ^\\\/ Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! Turbo Fredriksson Tel: +46-704-697645 S-415 10 Göteborg[EMAIL PROTECTED] SWEDEN www5.tripnet.se/~turbo My PGP key can be found at: 'www5.tripnet.se/~turbo/pgp.html' Key fingerprint = B7 92 93 0E 06 94 D6 22 98 1F 0B 5B FE 33 A1 0B --- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Philip Hands wrote: My first attempt at this was to add these lines to the scripts: # These variables are for the use of the scripts run by run-parts PPP_IFACE=$1 PPP_TTY=$2 PPP_SPEED=$3 PPP_LOCAL=$4 PPP_REMOTE=$5 export PPP_IFACE PPP_TTY PPP_SPEED PPP_LOCAL PPP_REMOTE run-parts /etc/ppp/ip-up.d Any better suggestions ? Yes, remove the 'PPP_' stuff (shorter lines :)... But a much better chance of conflicting with other variable names. Better not to indulge in namespace pollution IMHO. Cheers, Phil. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: What warrants a non-maintainer release number?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On 17 Dec 1997, James Troup wrote: you don't have to [do] a source release to do a non-maintainer release, just add a new entry to the changelog before you recompile. Well, if this is so, this would be the best solution. Just call it dpkg-1.4.0.19.0 and do not upload a new diff. This way, there will be no traces of 1.4.0.19.0 in 1.4.0.20's changelog. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: latin1 iQCVAgUBNJkLJyqK7IlOjMLFAQGwJwP8CZTQE+WZHBnXAlBoFhFeUZFpDgdX8XIi VzsoPcmskG98eISx5iEMi1AnEVyBWkXPKJCzyn8H7Lb0YsYsxY4JtG/ny/oHZoco PG+ectPE7uXk8Z9ZJUdUEYnnMejZyrLZuS7mb4ZDj7JXrTULlO4zCPSDxPwnwPqu Vlzr7H4fUqY= =WPFs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
ePerl (and WML) segfaults and dumps core with libc6 (hamm)?
Hi! Is there anyone using the Debian eperl and wml packages? I have been experienced the same problem as Larry Gilbert's on my hamm (Debian pre-2.0) system. ePerl segfaults and dump cores after it finishes processing the file. WML (Website META Language) also calls its own ePerl /usr/bin/wml_p3_eperl for one of its passes, and apparently wml_p3_eperl also returns with a segfault and a core dump. My system is: Linux lovelife 2.0.32 #1 Sun Dec 14 09:37:02 MST 1997 i486 unknown | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err:uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- ii eperl 2.2.5-1.1 ePerl interprets an ASCII file bristled with ii wml 1.4.6-0.1 Website META Language by Ralf Engelschall (Both are non-maintainer libc6 releases, by Joey Hess and me respectively. grin). WML comes with its own ePerl 2.2.8 as wml_p3_eperl. Have you experienced the same problem? Or, have you ever been able to get ePerl or WML to work at all? :) Thanks a lot! :) -- Anthony Fok Tung-Ling[EMAIL PROTECTED] Civil Engineeringhttp://www.ualberta.ca/~foka/ University of Alberta, CanadaKeep smiling! *^_^* -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 21:07:10 -0800 (PST) From: Larry Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bug#15818: eperl dumps core after doing its thing Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:03:04 GMT Resent-From: Larry Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-To: debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org Resent-cc: Heiko Schlittermann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: eperl Version: 2.2.5-1.1 After it processes a file, eperl concludes with a segmentation fault and a core dump. Kernel: Linux version 2.0.30 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (gcc version 2.7.2.2) #2 Extra info that may or may not be helpful: Perl package version: 5.004.04-2 Results of ldd /usr/bin/eperl: libnsl.so.1 = /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x4000f000) libgdbm.so.1 = /usr/lib/libgdbm.so.1 (0x40015000) libdb.so.2 = /lib/libdb.so.2 (0x4001b000) libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x40029000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x4002c000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40045000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4000) libcrypt.so.1 = /lib/libcrypt.so.1 (0x400e4000) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.
Rob == Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] (and others) writes: Rob Think multi-user system. Point taken. I was thinking in singleuser system terms. ---+-- Christian Lynbech | Computer Science Department, University of Aarhus Office: R0.32 | Ny Munkegade, Building 540, DK-8000 Aarhus C Phone: +45 8942 3218 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.daimi.aau.dk/~lynbech ---+-- Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael A. Petonic) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Recompiling elisp files (Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.)
I am not quite so pessimistic about the possibilities of recompiling installed elisp files. I see three situations where makefile do special things in order to compile elisp files: 1) generating/editing .el files (gnats and tm are examples of this) at build-time. This is not a problem since the generated .el file is installed as part of the .deb file. 2) .elc file is generated through other means than simple compilation. VM (at least at some point) had the option to concatenate all the little .elc files into one big .elc file. But I am pretty sure that (unless something really sick is going on in the .elc file generation) one would always be able to use the little files instead, perhaps with the appropriate amount of additional autoloads in the site-start.d file. 3) specific order of compilation is required. The problem here is (as I remember) mainly with macro expansion. Different solutions exists. Requiring the maintainer to extract a canonical compilation order from the build process is one (should then be handed to the elisp service handler). Fixing the source is another (if all files has the correct set of `requires', the bytecompiler should be able to figure out the rest on it self). A simple hack that probably would work quite a long bit of the way would be to sort the set of .el files according to the timestamps of the existing .elc and the compile in that order, though this certainly is less than robust. Does anybody know of a concrete example where recompiling a set of installed .el files in some specific (say alphabetic) order will fail? Gnus in the emacs distribution used to have this problem, I seem to remember, but it does not seem to be a problem in 19.34 (I maintain emacs under CVS which by default ignores .elc files and thus want to recompile lisp/). ---+-- Christian Lynbech | Computer Science Department, University of Aarhus Office: R0.32 | Ny Munkegade, Building 540, DK-8000 Aarhus C Phone: +45 8942 3218 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.daimi.aau.dk/~lynbech ---+-- Hit the philistines three times over the head with the Elisp reference manual. - [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael A. Petonic) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp ppp-pam
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is there an automatic way of setting the current version of a package into
the
Depends (a la ${shlibs:Depends}) ?
Not totally automatic, but you could probably do something in
debian/rules to sed (or, if you're me, perl) it out of the changelog,
and then do something like:
echo package:Version=$(VERSION) debian/substvars
dpkg-shlibdeps
dpkg-gencontrol
where debian/control would have
Depends: ppp (${package:Version})
The whole substvars is much more powerful than most people use. I've
recently taken to exploiting it for libc-dev dependencies, since the
Alpha has libc6.1-dev and i386 has libc6-dev.
Mike.
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Re: Moving topics from debian-private (was Re: SPI money out)
On 18 Dec 1997, Kai Henningsen wrote: Remember there are people that can't stand Emacs. Strange... :) Nothing strange. After a couple of _years_ of struggling in attempts to learn emacs (I made about 6 attempts total) I found a *great* relief in... vi (vim actually). I was able to get used to it only after 2-nd attempt. And now, when vim-5.0 supports syntax highlighting, I am more then satisfied with it. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp pam (was: Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts')
Herbert Xu [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought that, until I noticed that libpam depends upon libpam-util, which depends upon libpwdb0, which together come to about 180k compressed. I think you should file a bug report against libpam so it doesn't depend on libpam-util. I don't see why a library package should depend on a binary one. I think you should look at pam before making statements like that. -- James -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Does `dpkg' track the installation date of a package?
Todd Graham Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Count mine as one vote for a new LOG_DEBIAN facility. Is syslogd guaranteed to not lose events under debian? [It has no such guarantee for the general case.] -- Raul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This suggests to me that at least part of what the Debian developers are doing is somehow redundant, when it comes to well written software that is set up to compile of a number of systems. I did not claim that there are not packages that I have balked at, or that didn't compile. In such cases I have found debian packages HIGHLY useful. In fact, I have not been able to set up sendmail or smail properly, even from the debian package, without considerable work. But most debian packages, happily, drop right in. And uninstall neatly. In an ideal world, either: (a) the debian package format would be supported by the package author, or (b) compilation and installation for debian package building is trivial. Note that the debian package system addresses more than compilation and installation: it also addresses release engineering (stuff you worry about when you have a lot of machines to administer but not much time for any individual machine). Debian doesn't address all aspects of release engineering (for example, no one tests debian for clean downgrades, to back out of a problem), but there's a lot of ground to cover and we're just getting started. Anyways, I expect that a lot of software authors would prefer to leave release engineering to someone else. But you do have a point: where we see a way that we can help out the author in making a package easier to compile or install, it's a good idea to offer assistance. -- Raul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If people really think it is necesary I can add: PPP_TTYNAME=`/usr/bin/basename $2` I think this is a bad idea. Anyone who wants to do this, can, and throwing away information in situations like this is usually a bad idea. Consider this (obviouly contrived) example. Say I decide for some really strange reason to symlink a device file into my home directory: (cd ~/mydev ln -s /dev/ttyS0 .) With the basename approach, you *completely* lose the ability to distinguish pppd /dev/ttyS0 and pppd /home/rlb/mydev/ttyS0 Note, that I'm not saying that I can come up with a good argument why it would be important to be able to make this distinction (or to even do what I'm depicting in the example), but I am saying that since I can't prove to myself that the exact arguement used to invoke pppd will *never* be crucial, you shouldn't mangle it. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ldd strange behaviour
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Alex Romosan wrote: i have a c++ program compiled with no debug flag. when i do an ldd on the executable i get the following: ldd ./vat libtk8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtk8.0.so.1 (0x4000f000) libtcl8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtcl8.0.so.1 (0x400af000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40115000) libnsl.so.1 = /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x401b8000) libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401be000) ---libstdc++.so.2.7.2 = /usr/lib/libg++-dbg/libstdc++.so.2.7.2 (0x401c1000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401fe000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40218000) if i take /usr/lib/libg++-dbg out of /etc/ld.so.conf an rerun 'ldconfig -v' i get this: ldd ./vat libtk8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtk8.0.so.1 (0x4000f000) libtcl8.0.so.1 = /usr/lib/libtcl8.0.so.1 (0x400af000) libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40115000) libnsl.so.1 = /lib/libnsl.so.1 (0x401b8000) libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401be000) ---libstdc++.so.2.7.2 = /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.2.7.2 (0x401c1000) libm.so.6 = /lib/libm.so.6 (0x401fe000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40219000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4000) which, i think, should be the right dependency. is this a bug? which version of the c++ library is the program actually linked against? i have both libg++272-dbg and libg++272-dev installed (version 2.7.2.8-0.1 from hamm). ldd is from ldso-1.9.6-2. any clues? Actually, the strange behavior is correct and expected (which is why libg++-dbg does it). Libg++-dbg puts /usr/lib/libg++-dbg/ in ld.so.conf. The debugging library isn't any slower, it just contains debugging symbols for use by gdb. It is, otherwise, identical to the non debugging version of the library. -- Scott K. Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gate.net/~storm/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Recompiling elisp files (Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.)
Christian Lynbech [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1) generating/editing .el files (gnats and tm are examples of this) at build-time. This is not a problem since the generated .el file is installed as part of the .deb file. This is a problem if these packages need to work with both emacs and xemacs. The two are .elc file incompatible. Does anybody know of a concrete example where recompiling a set of installed .el files in some specific (say alphabetic) order will fail? Gnus in the emacs distribution used to have this problem, I seem to remember, but it does not seem to be a problem in 19.34 (I maintain emacs under CVS which by default ignores .elc files and thus want to recompile lisp/). I think gnus might fit this criterion. It has a full blown makefile, but I haven't checked to see how complicated the actions are. I think at this point I favor Guy's service registration proposal, but there are some details that have to be considered. I won't be doing anything about any of this fancier stuff for a couple of weeks, though. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Service registration
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Because the normal build process is to say make build; And, as I just realized, this in itself could be problematic. Are we going to add Depends: make to the emacs lisp packages that do this in their postinst? I guess we could, but it seemed a little unsettling when I first realized that it would be required. and it may need files that may not be available. Also, a script is not easy to build from a complex multi directory make process: case in point: tm-7.106. I maintain a local deb package (I have no real reason for not using the official package), so I know how complex that is. Well, I don't see how to fix the needing files that aren't available problem (when does this happen?), but the multi-directory make process shouldn't be a problem. There's no reason the hook file for tm in Guy's proposal couldn't just execute (cd tm-dir make) I do agree that there are other complexities to work out. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No no, Linus agrees with our method. Right, check out /usr/doc/libc6/FAQ.Debian.gz for the word from the horse's mouth. Also, people (rightfully) mentioned considering make-kpkg for building your kernels. You can find it in the Debian kernel-package package. It makes building your kernel much easier, and (more importantly in my view) leaves you with a Debian package containing the new kernel. This makes it easy to switch back and forth between kernel configurations (using different kernel packages) without worrying about making a mistake. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note, that I'm not saying that I can come up with a good argument why it would be important to be able to make this distinction (or to even do what I'm depicting in the example), but I am saying that since I can't prove to myself that the exact arguement used to invoke pppd will *never* be crucial, you shouldn't mangle it. Alternate devices directories might be useful in a secured network environment (e.g. each physical set of connections gets its own directory with its own permissions). Here, you want separate directories because programs which manipulate ttys tend to manipulate device permissions. You want lines going to the outside world to have different permissions than lines going to the inside world because that's what your security model dictates. -- Raul -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
Raul Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note, that I'm not saying that I can come up with a good argument why it would be important to be able to make this distinction (or to even do what I'm depicting in the example), but I am saying that since I can't prove to myself that the exact arguement used to invoke pppd will *never* be crucial, you shouldn't mangle it. Alternate devices directories might be useful in a secured network environment (e.g. each physical set of connections gets its own directory with its own permissions). Right... Pretend like I used what Raul said as my example. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Proxy server policy [was Re: gated]
[You (Adrian Bridgett)] We should also standardize the environment variables that are used. Once again, if the program doesn't support environment variables, tough - although of course maintainers are encouraged to fix the programs :-) Maybe just enforce the standards that are kinda sorta already there, or even just forward bugs upstream if these are not supported? $http_proxy env variable is supported by lynx, W3 mode in Emacsen, and Mosaic flavors. Also don't forget WWW_HOME as your home page. I think there's not really much way we can get them to get netscape to respect this; I don't think it's worth it to munge thru the (quite volatile) netscape preferences either. If people could be kind enough to email sample proxy configurations to me (ones that are supported by some non-customized program), then I'll come up with a proposed scheme. I'll include some sample code to make it easier for maintainers to convert a program. Well, the less work the better ;) BTW, my home scheme doesn't really fit into your map. This is for squid, in this case, running on localhost: gopher_proxy=http://localhost:3128/ http_proxy=http://localhost:3128/ ftp_proxy=http://localhost:3128/ FWIW, there's also an experimental Linux feature, transparent proxy, I think, which could automatically redirect outbound HTTP requests to a local httpd cache. .A. P. [EMAIL PROTECTED]URL:http://www.onShore.com/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Proxy server policy [was Re: gated]
Previously Adam P. Harris wrote:
I think there's not really much way we can get them to get netscape to
respect this; I don't think it's worth it to munge thru the (quite
volatile) netscape preferences either.
We can use the automatic proxy configuration and point users at that.
We could have browsers provide a hook to install their own config
stuff and make something like the script below for netscape.
We (are going to) use this for example:
function FindProxyForURL(url,host)
{
if (url.substring(0, 5) != http:
url.substring(0, 4) != ftp:
url.substring(0, 7) != gopher:)
return DIRECT;
if (isResolvable(host))
if (isPlainHostName(host) ||
dnsDomainIs(host, .wi.leidenuniv.nl))
return DIRECT;
else
return PROXY wwwproxy.wi.leidenuniv.nl:3128; DIRECT;
else
return DIRECT;
}
(With thanks to netgod for the protocol-detection).
Wichert.
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==
This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman.
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wakkerma/
pgpES58MrLDHY.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: 2.0.32, XNvidia, Vtk
Herbert Xu wrote: Alexander Supalov wrote: I saw today that Linux kernel 2.0.32 had been released as a Debian package. Is it safe to upgrade the existing Debian.1.3.r4 to this kernel? What about all the libc6 stuff? Should I have it installed or should I better wait until the the next major Debian release arrives? If so, when will this happen? You should be able to install it onto a bo system. I had a small trouble when installing, as follows: I upgraded to a new snapshot of hamm (1997-12-13) and dselect naturally marked for upgrade everything I had. I also noticed the new kernel 2.0.32 and installed it. Now, this is what I believe what happened. When configuring kernel it asks if I want to make boot disk. I did want. Then it asks something like Hmm. You seem to have new superformat, want to use it? and I felt I'm taking risks already and I don't want to answer yes to anything this dubious. Then it tried to create floppy with old format (and with non-existing device as well?) but didn't succeed. There was no obvious way to back up to Hmmm. ... or otherwise correct the situation. ( Later I found a note to the effect that use superformat since it obsoletes the older one and is better and removes some /fev/fd* entries. I think that *if* superformat is safe to use it should be the default. It probably should be the default anyway, since the alternative does not work. Why give user possibility to give wrong answer when script can detect the right one. I also think that configuration should notice that boot disk was not created and e.g. not run lilo or at least ask about it. ) Then configuring kernel asks if I want to use old lilo.config of let him create a new one. Silly me, I thought that lilo 20 might need something new, let there be new config. A new config there was, lilo was run, and the system was unbootable. (Well, maybe I fumbled with it a bit afterwards.) ( Aside from possible lilo version problem, since upgrade from 19 to 20 was unpacked but not configured at this time, there are some other problems. First, I think that the default should be to append lines to existing lilo.config since that presumably worked in the last boot. If lilo 20 is installed then no symlinks should be used or changed. Maybe that should be the case anyway, since the real lilo.config may reside in some other place in multi boot machines? Then running lilo should be optional. If no links have been broken then not running lilo does not break anything, only new kernel is not yet used. The generated lilo.config file was broken, since my partition, /dev/hda5, was a logical one, and lilo gave error for that. Is there a way of detecting the partition type? ) That was it. Although the consequences were not so nice, it was mostly my mistake, but I would recommend that you do not upgrade kernel and lilo without booting in between. A couple questions about it all: Is it necessary or even possible to coordinate upgrades of kernel and bootloader so that their upgrades are not interleaved? Is it possible to safely generate bootloader config file or would it be better to show message Will mail more info to you, read it before booting and pause to make sure that user reads it. (and mail the info) t.aa -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: ppp's ip-{up,down} and possible utilization of 'run-parts'
Philip Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If people really think it is necesary I can add: PPP_TTYNAME=`/usr/bin/basename $2` I think this is a bad idea. Anyone who wants to do this, can, and throwing away information in situations like this is usually a bad idea. If I were throwing information away, I would agree with you 100%. As it is PPP_TTY contains the full argument, and PPP_TTYNAME the (possibly) truncated version of the same. So if people want to diferentiate they use $PPP_TTY and if they don't they use $PPP_TTYNAME. I think this is all fairly redunant, but I suppose it will help to avoid the misaprehension that $2 will not have /dev/ on the front, and it does mean that people will not have to reinvent the wheel on the `basename` front, to strip it off. Anyway, it's done like this in ppp_2.3.2-2 --- grab a copy, have a look and tell me what you think. Cheers, Phil. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Recompiling elisp files (Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.)
Hi, Christian == Christian Lynbech [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Christian I am not quite so pessimistic about the possibilities of Christian recompiling installed elisp files. Please, people, do download the sources for tm and compile a local copy before you display such unwarranted optimism ;-). Also, a look at hyperbole may be instructive. The top level directory for tm looks like this (ignore the CVS dir) __ __ l /usr/local/src/Work/tm/ total 22 1 ./ 1 debian/ 1 sinfo/ 1 tm-mh-e/ 1 ../ 1 emu/ 1 tl/ 1 tm-vm/ 1 CVS/ 1 gnus-mime/ 1 tm/ 6 README.en1 mel/ 1 tm-gnus/ 1 bitmap-mule/ 1 mu/ 1 tm-mail/ __ I am including the Makefile in the tm/ subdirectory below. Running make in that directory triggers recusive makes in all sibling directories, and the make run is modified by elisp in several *-CONFIG files. Christian I see three situations where makefile do special things in Christian order to compile elisp files: Christian 1) generating/editing .el files (gnats and tm are examples Christian of this) at build-time. This is not a problem since the Christian generated .el file is installed as part of the .deb file. Umm, hyperbole and tm both have multidirectory complex make relationships; and unless we ship the make files in the distribution (/usr/lib/emacs/site-lisp/tm/Makefile?), it is difficult indeed to compile them in a postinst hook (it can be done, at the expense of potentially having to re-craft the compiler on upstream upgrades). Christian 2) .elc file is generated through other means than simple Christian compilation. VM (at least at some point) had the option to Christian concatenate all the little .elc files into one big .elc Christian file. But I am pretty sure that (unless something really Christian sick is going on in the .elc file generation) one would Christian always be able to use the little files instead, perhaps Christian with the appropriate amount of additional autoloads in the Christian site-start.d file. Debian does not use the concatenated elc files option; we do use the little files. But the little files are not generated in random order; __ BYTEOPTS = ./vm-byteopts.el PRELOADS = -l $(BYTEOPTS) -l ./vm-message.el -l ./vm-misc.el -l ./vm-vars.el -l ./vm-version.el BATCHFLAGS = -batch -q -no-site-file CORE = vm-message.el vm-misc.el vm-byteopts.el OBJECTS = \ vm-delete.elc vm-digest.elc vm-easymenu.elc vm-edit.elc vm-folder.elc \ vm-license.elc vm-mark.elc vm-menu.elc vm-message.elc \ [...] SOURCES = \ vm-delete.el vm-digest.el vm-easymenu.el vm-edit.el vm-folder.el \ vm-license.el vm-mark.el vm-menu.el vm-message.el \ [...] vm: vm.elc vm.elc: autoload noautoload: $(OBJECTS) tapestry.elc @echo building vm.elc (with all modules included)... @cat $(OBJECTS) tapestry.elc vm.elc autoload: vm-autoload.elc $(OBJECTS) tapestry.elc @echo building vm.elc (with all modules set to autoload)... @echo (require 'vm-startup) vm.elc @echo (require 'vm-vars) vm.elc @echo (require 'vm-version) vm.elc @echo (require 'vm-autoload) vm.elc all:vm.info vm vm.info:vm.texinfo @echo making vm.info... @$(EMACS) $(BATCHFLAGS) -insert vm.texinfo -l texinfmt -f texinfo-format -buffer -f save-buffer vm-autoload.elc:$(SOURCES) @echo scanning sources to build autoload definitions... @echo (provide 'vm-autoload) vm-autoload.el @$(EMACS) $(BATCHFLAGS) -l ./make-autoloads -f print-autoloads $(SOURCES ) vm-autoload.el @echo compiling vm-autoload.el... @$(EMACS) $(BATCHFLAGS) -l $(BYTEOPTS) -f batch-byte-compile vm-autoload .el vm-delete.elc: vm-delete.el $(CORE) @echo compiling vm-delete.el... @$(EMACS) $(BATCHFLAGS) $(PRELOADS) -f batch-byte-compile vm-delete.el vm-digest.elc: vm-digest.el $(CORE) @echo compiling vm-digest.el... @$(EMACS) $(BATCHFLAGS) $(PRELOADS) -f batch-byte-compile vm-digest.el [...] __ the SOurces change from time to time. Christian 3) specific order of compilation is required. The problem Christian here is (as I remember) mainly with macro Christian expansion. Different solutions exists. Requiring the Christian maintainer to extract a canonical compilation order from Christian the build process is one (should then be handed to the Christian elisp service handler). Fixing the source is another (if Christian all files has the correct set of `requires', the Christian bytecompiler should be able to figure out the rest on it
Re: Service registration
Hi, Rob == Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rob Well, I don't see how to fix the needing files that aren't Rob available problem (when does this happen?), but the Rob multi-directory make process shouldn't be a problem. There's no Rob reason the hook file for tm in Guy's proposal couldn't just Rob execute Rob (cd tm-dir make) You mean to ship all the Makefiles and the complex directory structures? I dump all elisp files into one destination directory, and I do not ship makefiles. /usr/lib/emacs/site-lisp/tm/tm/Makefile, faugh ;-) And we shall have to have the whole crufty complex directory structure that tm employs in our site-lisp directory. Methinks I object. Rob I do agree that there are other complexities to work out. You have a gift of understatement. manoj -- Every opportunity we have to run our RD scientists and engineers against our customers, we do it. George Heilmeier, Texas Instruments Inc., Dallas Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
Hi, Before Debian, I used to roll my own. I used to spend hours and hours, chasing down sources, removing all incompatibilities I could detect (and fix), compiling them, dealing with bad versions, and, alas, very little of the software was truly well behaved. I think precompiled binaries save me a load of time -- without this, I could no longer afford the luxury of a free system. Is that justification enough for the .deb packages? Ideally, all sources shall be well behaved, and they all would follow a file heirarchy standrard, and they all would mesh into place, and there shall be now wars, famines, or floods, and imagine, a world with no conflicts -- unfortunately, Lennon was right, and we are dreamers, the two of us; but Debian lives in the madness we call real world. alack, and well-a-day. manoj -- Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself. Vilfredo Pareto Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
You might have a look at how Free and Open BSD do things with their ports system. It doesnt seem that attractive as a package management system (try installing Xemacs over a 28.8 on a 486;-), but it is done quite well, and with standard unix tools. It has provisions for dependencies and the like as well. I would like to look at their binary package tool as well, but it dumps core on my 2.2-RELEASE Fbsd... Ciao, -- David Welton http://www.efn.org/~davidw Debian GNU/Linux - www.debian.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Packaging irc clients
Hi there! I was poking around the bitchx sources to see if I could make a new package since the current one is somewhat (lightly put) outdated. After some studying I discovered that there are many things not present in the bitchx sources, but that are common to all irc clients. Things like scripts and helpfiles could be shared by multiple clients. The current bitchx source use the helfiles from epic, for example. Maintaining bitchx (and possibly other clients) would be quiete easy if we did the same for irc as was done for fvwm and related window managers: we can make an irci-common package which is shared by multiple irc clients. Each client need only depend on ircii-common and supply it's own binaries and client-specific help/scripts. I'm no hero with irc, so if the irc-experts could comment on this proposal, please do so.. Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wakkerma/ pgplXtTddfqva.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: 2.0.32, XNvidia, Vtk
Hi, Please do not blame Herbert for this, since I am responsible for the kernel-image scripts. Arto == Arto Astala [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Arto I upgraded to a new snapshot of hamm (1997-12-13) and dselect Arto naturally marked for upgrade everything I had. I also noticed Arto the new kernel 2.0.32 and installed it. Oh. Arto Now, this is what I believe what happened. Arto When configuring kernel it asks if I want to make boot disk. I Arto did want. Then it asks something like Hmm. You seem to have new Arto superformat, want to use it? and I felt I'm taking risks Arto already and I don't want to answer yes to anything this Arto dubious. Then it tried to create floppy with old format (and Arto with non-existing device as well?) but didn't succeed. There was Arto no obvious way to back up to Hmmm. ... or otherwise correct Arto the situation. ( Later I found a note to the effect that use Arto superformat since it obsoletes the older one and is better and Arto removes some /fev/fd* entries. I think that *if* superformat is Arto safe to use it should be the default. It probably should be the Arto default anyway, since the alternative does not work. Why give Arto user possibility to give wrong answer when script can detect the Arto right one. The reason that the script asks about using superformat stems from the days when superformat was newly introduced; and it had problems. If that has indeed changed, I shall make the script not ask. Actually, embarrasingly enough, niether seems to work for me: __ fdformat /dev/fd0 get geometry parameters: Operation not supported by device __ superformat /dev/fd0 hd old capacity=12500 Measuring drive 0's raw capacity Fatal error while measuring raw capacity 0: 40 1: 04 2: 00 3: 00 4: 00 5: 01 6: 08 __ I think I may well remove this option of formatting the floppy. It has aways given me problems. Arto I also think that configuration should notice that Arto boot disk was not created and e.g. not run lilo or at least ask Arto about it. ) What do you want the process to do on errors? abort? It does tell the installer how to manually create a boot disk. I did not think aborting the install because of a failure of the boot disk creation was necessary. And it does ask you if you want to run lilo. The process does stop, and inform you about failure to write a boot floppy. You have to hit return to proceed. It warns about not being able to reboot the system. At this point, unless lilo is run, the system is unbootable. Not running lilo is wrong, IMHO. Arto Then configuring kernel asks if I want to use old lilo.config of Arto let him create a new one. Silly me, I thought that lilo 20 might Arto need something new, let there be new config. A new config there Arto was, lilo was run, and the system was unbootable. (Well, maybe I Arto fumbled with it a bit afterwards.) What was the error? was the new lilo.conf incorrect? in what way? Arto ( Aside from possible lilo version problem, since upgrade from Arto 19 to 20 was unpacked but not configured at this time, there are Arto some other problems. Hmm ;-(. Arto First, I think that the default should be Arto to append lines to existing lilo.config since that presumably Arto worked in the last boot. The lilo file created is simple, but it should allow the system to be upgraded; provided, of course, that lilo is available ;-(. Appending to an existing file is fraught with complications, and is unlikely to create a valid lilo.conf. If one has a valid lilo.conf, the dafault is to use it. Arto If lilo 20 is installed then no symlinks should be used or Arto changed. Why? Arto Maybe that should be the case anyway, since the real Arto lilo.config may reside in some other place in multi boot Arto machines? On my multiboot machine, it does not. If people are changing the Debian conventions, I think they should be capable of dealing with the consequences. Arto Then running lilo should be optional. It is. Arto If no links have been broken then not running lilo does not Arto break anything, only new kernel is not yet used. Links are not broken, they are updated. Arto The generated lilo.config file was broken, since my partition, Arto /dev/hda5, was a logical one, and lilo gave error for that. Is Arto there a way of detecting the partition type? ) I do not know. Anybody? Arto That was it. Although the consequences were not so nice, it was Arto mostly my mistake, but I would recommend that you do not upgrade Arto kernel and lilo without booting in between. I wholeheartedly agree. Arto A couple questions about it all: Arto Is it necessary or even possible to coordinate upgrades of Arto kernel and bootloader so that their upgrades are not Arto interleaved? This should be a question for the Deity list. Arto Is it possible to
Emacs20 and mail file locking.
My question is, should I modify emacs to use maillock from liblockdev, or it the emacs mechanism OK (what about NFS)? My reading is that emacs needs to be modified, but since liblockdev requires you to call touchlock on a regular basis, I'm worried that the modification might be non-trivial. Here's the relevant bit from the Emacs config: /* define MAIL_USE_FLOCK if the mailer uses flock to interlock access to /usr/spool/mail/$USER. The alternative is that a lock file named /usr/spool/mail/$USER.lock. */ /* On GNU/Linux systems, both methods are used by various mail programs. I assume that most people are using newer mailers that have heard of flock. Change this if you need to. */ #define MAIL_USE_FLOCK And here's the relevant bit from debian-policy: All Debian MUAs and MTAs have to use the `maillock' and `mailunlock' functions provided by the `liblockfile' packages to lock and unlock mail boxes. These functions implement a NFS-safe locking mechanism. (It is ok if MUAs and MTAs don't link against liblockfile but use a *compatible* mechanism. Please compare the mechanisms very carefully!) If emacs' current mechanism *is* compatible, then I could save some hassle. Thanks -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.
I've had a look at all the current packages, details are below (some programs are probably fine). I think most of these packages should be fixed is someway - either: depending on emacs|xemacs description includes does not work with Xemacs description includes already included with Xemacs I'm coming in late to this discussion, so please forgive me if this has been covered... Is the emacs package being renamed into emacs19? (I saw several mentions of that name.) If so, could not both emacs19 and xemacsnn both Provides: emacs? Brian ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) --- I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Taking over production of emacs20 package.
Brian White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is the emacs package being renamed into emacs19? (I saw several mentions of that name.) If so, could not both emacs19 and xemacsnn both Provides: emacs? The new emacs package is going to be named emacs20. The older one may or may not be renamed to emacs19, and unless there's a reason not to, I agree that all three emacsen should Provide: emacs. -- Rob Browning [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint = E8 0E 0D 04 F5 21 A0 94 53 2B 97 F5 D6 4E 39 30 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Paranoia, pristine sources, turnkeys, compiling, configuration
David Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You might have a look at how Free and Open BSD do things with their ports system. It doesnt seem that attractive as a package management system (try installing Xemacs over a 28.8 on a 486;-), but it is done quite well, and with standard unix tools. It has provisions for dependencies and the like as well. I would like to look at their binary package tool as well, but it dumps core on my 2.2-RELEASE Fbsd... Ahh, but judging from recent posts to USENET, ports seems to be more of a system for source package management than package management. And our source packaging could use some revamping anyways. (I'd like multiple .tar.gz files and multiple diff files, for example.) (As far as I can tell from USENET, their binary packages are similar to Slakware.) If anyone decides to work on a better source packaging system for Debian, they probably should look at ports for some ideas. Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
closing bug reports
how do I do it? Will -- | [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | http://www.cis.udel.edu/~lowe/ | -- |If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. | | -- Taken from Hennesey and Patterson,| | _Computer_Organization_And_Design_:_The_Hardware_/_Software_Interface_ | -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: closing bug reports
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Will Lowe wrote: how do I do it? Mail to either bug#[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED], the web bug mirror has full instructions on the bug tracking system. -- Scott K. Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gate.net/~storm/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
