Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
I have now converted three machines to EMC2 using parallel port for the two small machines (a lathe and a mill) and 5i20+7i37 cards for the bigger milling machine. The next two (lathes) are a bit more complicated in that they have servo motors with encoders driving the spindles. Whereas the stepgen component has velocity-command output, the hostmot2.stepgen component seems to lack this kind of output (it seems to have position-command only). Is it possible to generate a variable frequency pulse stream through hostmot2 to control the speed of the servo spindle motor? The one servo drive needs pulse/direction inputs and has 1000 ppr encoder output. Encoder gearing can be set. The other drive needs a +-10V analogue signal for velocity control and also has similar encoder output. For the latter I have a 7i33 that could be used. I am sure there is a way, and it is probably written up somewhere, but I have not been able to find it. Rudy __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4972 (20100324) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port PC Card Disabled
for PCMCIA cards I found that the only way to make them work was to load the linux drivers, then unload them. Specifically parport_cs (so do something like: modprobe parport_cs, check /proc/ioports for your card, rmmod parport_cs (and dependencies if needed.. been a while, can't remember exactly if there were any)). Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: darcys...@gmail.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:50 AM Subject: [Emc-users] Parallel Port PC Card Disabled Hi there, I am a new EMC2 user and am trying to configure a PCMCIA Card Parallel Port on a Compaq Presario v2000 laptop. I have read that the card can do CNC, so I am optimistic that it will work. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16839328010 The problem I am encountering is that parallel port seems to be disabled. Running sudo lspci -v gives me the following output: - 07:00.0 Communication controller: NetMos Technology PCI 1 port parallel adapter (rev 01) Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic Unknown device 0010 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 11 I/O ports at 3410 [disabled] [size=8] I/O ports at 3418 [disabled] [size=8] I/O ports at 3420 [disabled] [size=8] I/O ports at 3428 [disabled] [size=8] I/O ports at 3430 [disabled] [size=8] I/O ports at 3400 [disabled] [size=16] - I found a similar issue previously posted here: http://www.mail-archive.com/emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11633.html But am unable to find any bios setting to turn off 'plug play', nor am I able to locate the 'enable' file for the device. Does anyone know where I should be looking to find this file? Or if there is another way to enable the device? Thanks in advance, Karl -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mornin' Gents, Had a little time to play yesterday evening to play around with my machine, so I decided to stick a dial indicator on both my X and Z axes (I only have those two, it's a gantry machine that cuts tapered triangular bamboo strips for making bamboo fly rods). The Z axis was dead nuts on, but I was get varied responses to jogs on the X axis. I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. At .01, the first couple of jogs would show about .001 - .002 short of the full .01 movement, then occasionally move the full .01, and then sometimes slightly more than .01. About the same for the .05 movement. At .1, the movement for the first few times was .003 - .004 short, but then would move almost dead nuts on to .1 each jog. I don't think backlash would come into play since all the moves were in the same direction. I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. I thought maybe it was a software setting, so I futzed around with the MAX_VELOCITY, MAX_ACCELERATION, and the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL. It is pretty cool to see a heavy gantry zipping back and forth on the machine at 180 inches a minute... ;-) Anything else I should look at? Or should I keep concentrating on tuning with the three variables above? Thanks, Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Python script find center from 3 locations
At 03:27 PM 3/24/2010, you wrote: Ries van Twisk wrote: The forumla might be right, looks a bit long to me :), there are better/other ways... http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/sets/select/dm_center_circle.html The case for a CNC is even simpler, because we don't have to use any three random points. We can choose to measure points that make the calculation easier. For example, the user drops the edge finder into the hole (ideally reasonably close to the center, but that's not required). The program then moves X only to prove the left side, then moves X only to probe the right side. The midpoint of that line (X1+X2)/2 is the X center point. Move to the calculated X center point and do the same thing in Y. If you're really touchy about precision, repeat the X measurement from the Y center, and optionally repeat the Y measurement from the refined X center point. It's not as hard when you can control where the points come from. - Steve Steve, That's pretty much the procedure I use on my manual mill with a DRO. And here I thought I was a genius coming up with that idea... =8^Þ Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, jury duty is keeping me busy and tired. At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. Thanks John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, VIrginia On Tue, 2010-03-23 at 11:39 +0100, Bernhard Kubicek wrote: I usually home all axis once in axis, then jog to my intended origin, say x-touch off-0,y-touch off-0, and of course z-touch off-0.1 or the minimal amount i am over the piece. I have no home switches. On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Alex Joni alex.j...@robcon.ro wrote: You use the touchoff button for that: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_axis.html#cap:Touch-Off G54 should be active by default (unless you select another coordinate system using g55..g59.3). Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: John Guenther j.guent...@verizon.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:26 PM Subject: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day. Good Morning, I am new to EMC2, I used EMC when I first got into CNC but switched to Mach for many reasons that are not worth discussing here. My question relates to initial part setup. I can't seem to find a simple way to tell my mill where zero is. I use an electronic edge finder, so for esample I jog the X axis around until I couch the left edge of the part. Now, how do I tell EMC2 this is X0.0? If it makes any difference this is a small benchtop mill and the way I work X0, Y0 is the lower left corner of the part or material and none of my g-code uses the G54 - G59.3 Select Coordinate System codes. Thanks in advance. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
You can get a variable frequency pulse train out of a hostmot2 stepgen by switching it to velocity mode. Look at the control-type and velocity-cmd pins. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html -- Sebastian Kuzminsky never be discouraged just let your nerdy flourish -Original Message- From: Rudy du Preez r...@asmsa.co.za Subj: Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control Date: Thu 2010 Mar 25 3:07 Size: 1K To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net I have now converted three machines to EMC2 using parallel port for the two small machines (a lathe and a mill) and 5i20+7i37 cards for the bigger milling machine. The next two (lathes) are a bit more complicated in that they have servo motors with encoders driving the spindles. Whereas the stepgen component has velocity-command output, the hostmot2.stepgen component seems to lack this kind of output (it seems to have position-command only). Is it possible to generate a variable frequency pulse stream through hostmot2 to control the speed of the servo spindle motor? The one servo drive needs pulse/direction inputs and has 1000 ppr encoder output. Encoder gearing can be set. The other drive needs a +-10V analogue signal for velocity control and also has similar encoder output. For the latter I have a 7i33 that could be used. I am sure there is a way, and it is probably written up somewhere, but I have not been able to find it. Rudy __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4972 (20100324) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
On 25 March 2010 07:07, Rudy du Preez r...@asmsa.co.za wrote: Whereas the stepgen component has velocity-command output, the hostmot2.stepgen component seems to lack this kind of output (it seems to have position-command only). Is it possible to generate a variable frequency pulse stream through hostmot2 to control the speed of the servo spindle motor? I don't know if the Hostmot2 stepgen supports velocity mode, it is possible that if it does then the position-cmd pin is dual function. It is also possible that the documentation is incomplete and it is probably worth looking through the pins and parameters in the HAL config browser to be sure. However, a somewhat clunky solution might be to run a software velocity-mode stepgen in the HAL base thread and wire its stepgen.N.position-fb pin as an input to the Hostmot2 stepgen. You can probably just not bother running the make-pulses function so there is no need for a fast thread. It would probably also be possible to perform a simple calculation in HAL: stepgen.position-command = stepgen,position-feedback + timedelta.0.out * spindle-velocity-cmd -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
On 25 March 2010 11:19, John Guenther j.guent...@verizon.net wrote: At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. I think that is the problem. The machine coordinates are fixed to the axes and can only easily be relocated by a homing process. The machine will refuse to move outside these limits. I think you said that you have no home switches? In that case I can't remember what happens when you home the axis, I think that the current physical position becomes the point at which the machine absolute numerical position takes the value from the ini-file axis home position. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. This is exactly what the working coordinate systems are for. If you change the view to Relative either from the menu or by pressing # then you will see the current working coordinate values. Note that you are _always_ on one of the working coordinate systems. You have to use special G-codes to move in the absolute machine coordinate space. The distinction might not be clear in cases where the working coordinate system has no offset from the machine coordinate system, and this will often be the case for a machine with no home switches. However, any G0, G1, G2, G3 etc move will always move in the current (probably G54) coordinates. So, for a machine with no home switches the start-up process would be: Select Absolute coordinate view Move to the extreme limits of travel of each axis. Home the axes from the GUI with the home button. I think you will see the machine coordinates take on the home position values from the INI file, but I could well be wrong. To save time and trouble you could set the home position to be mid-travel and set the axes limits symmetrical about this point. Change the view to Relative Coordinates Jog to where you want X=0 and Y=0 to be, set them to zero (or some other value) with the touch-off button. Bring your tool down to the height setter, select Z, press the touch-off button and type in your 2 tool height value. You should now be good to go. Clicking the DRO in Mach sounds to be doing exactly the same thing as EMC touch-off. There is also the option of touching-off into the Tool table, which can be useful for machines with multiple tool holders, less so for single collet machines. There is a lot more info on the Wiki, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems Bear in mind that my understanding of this issue is incomplete, and I don't have a machine here at work to experiment with. I still sometimes find myself in a bit of a tangle with offsets and programmed move would exceed machine minimum when there is clearly lots of space left. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
On 25 March 2010 11:32, s...@highlab.com wrote: You can get a variable frequency pulse train out of a hostmot2 stepgen by switching it to velocity mode. Look at the control-type and velocity-cmd pins. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html In that case, ignore my earlier message. The page above and this page: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/hostmot2.9.html Mention the mode and velocity command pins. Confusingly the page here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//drivers_hostmot2.html which I found with Google does not mention those pins, hence the half-baked idea I posted. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
On 3/25/2010 7:19 AM, John Guenther wrote: Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, jury duty is keeping me busy and tired. At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. Thanks John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, VIrginia Hi John, MDI: G92 Z2.0 see page 90 of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
John Guenther wrote: Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, jury duty is keeping me busy and tired. At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. Somewhere in the AXIS menus, I believe under the Machine menu, is Touch Off. This is also available with a hot-key (could be END, check the quick reference under the help menu). This lets you enter a position for the currently selected axis. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
At 08:32 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 3/25/2010 7:19 AM, John Guenther wrote: Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, jury duty is keeping me busy and tired. At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. Thanks John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, VIrginia Hi John, MDI: G92 Z2.0 see page 90 of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA David, Where abouts in Southern Maryland are you? I live in Waldorf. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
Sebastian and Andy Many thanks for the pointer to the correct docs. I was looking at the integrators manual (pdf). It fails to mention the pins velocity-cmd and control-type. It has other errors also. I new the answer would be something like this - I am still learning where to find good docs on EMC2 integration! Many thanks for the instant response! Rudy __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4973 (20100325) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 spindle velocity control
Andy Pugh wrote: On 25 March 2010 11:32, s...@highlab.com wrote: You can get a variable frequency pulse train out of a hostmot2 stepgen by switching it to velocity mode. Look at the control-type and velocity-cmd pins. http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html In that case, ignore my earlier message. The page above and this page: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//man/man9/hostmot2.9.html Mention the mode and velocity command pins. Confusingly the page here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//drivers_hostmot2.html which I found with Google does not mention those pins, hence the half-baked idea I posted. Hmm, the drivers_hostmot2 page is somewhat out of date. The manpage (that i linked to you) is correct. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
David, Where abouts in Southern Maryland are you? I live in Waldorf. Mark I'm in Calvert County, near the village of Lower Marlboro. DC -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark If you use microstepping then you can just need to much.. Anything above 8th is wasted. Regular steppers doesn't make same steps with microstepping. Backlash can deflect measurment even if you move in same direction. Seems silly but it's true. If you tend to stop gantry to fast then stored kinetic energy in gantry move slash and voila. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Hmmm. My first thought was also that it's a mechanical issue. I can imagine the rack geometry causing a problem like backlash. The thing I think of (and this is pure conjecture, I don't know that anyone would actually manufacture a rack with this feature) is that there are rest positions as the pinion moves over the rack. You should try the moves with extremely slow acceleration and velocity. Take the numbers you're using and divide them by 5 or 10. If you still have position errors, then it's pretty much got to be mechanical. You can also test by repeatedly doing MDI moves like G91 F10 G1 X0.001. The acceleration may be different for jogs vs. coordinated moves. One other thing, what's the axis scale? A small pinion (say 1.5 inches) moves ~4.7 inches per rev, which with a standard stepper, 10x microstepping, and 2:1 gearing is under 1000 steps/inch. You may not have the resolution to move 0.001 inches exactly. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Integrator manual
Can all please take note: the Integrators (pdf) manual link on the main linuxcnc.org website is out of date. The latest manual is at linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/. It has the latest info on Hostmot2 for instance. Rudy __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4973 (20100325) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
At 09:00 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: David, Where abouts in Southern Maryland are you? I live in Waldorf. Mark I'm in Calvert County, near the village of Lower Marlboro. DC Neat! Nice to hear about a local... ;-) Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 09:01 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark If you use microstepping then you can just need to much.. Anything above 8th is wasted. Regular steppers doesn't make same steps with microstepping. Backlash can deflect measurment even if you move in same direction. Seems silly but it's true. If you tend to stop gantry to fast then stored kinetic energy in gantry move slash and voila. I'm pretty sure I've got the machine set up to 1/8 micro step now. I tried doing this at different jog and acceleration speeds and still saw the same discrepancies. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 09:06 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Hmmm. My first thought was also that it's a mechanical issue. I can imagine the rack geometry causing a problem like backlash. The thing I think of (and this is pure conjecture, I don't know that anyone would actually manufacture a rack with this feature) is that there are rest positions as the pinion moves over the rack. You should try the moves with extremely slow acceleration and velocity. Take the numbers you're using and divide them by 5 or 10. If you still have position errors, then it's pretty much got to be mechanical. You can also test by repeatedly doing MDI moves like G91 F10 G1 X0.001. The acceleration may be different for jogs vs. coordinated moves. One other thing, what's the axis scale? A small pinion (say 1.5 inches) moves ~4.7 inches per rev, which with a standard stepper, 10x microstepping, and 2:1 gearing is under 1000 steps/inch. You may not have the resolution to move 0.001 inches exactly. - Steve Steve, It doesn't seem to matter where along the length of the rack the gantry is, it happens whether it's in the middle of the rack or at either end (the rack is 6' long). The pinion diameter is 1, according to the maker of the RP setup, and when I measured the OD of the pinion it was slightly larger than 1 which makes sense if the pitch diameter is 1. Works out pretty easy in my case since with a 1 pitch diameter, the pinion moves 3.14159 per revoultion. Microstepping was set to 8, gearing is 3:1 reduction, and if I remember right there was a scale of somewhere around 1579.x or something close. Even if it doesn't have the resolution to move .001 shouldn't the resolution on the .1 moves be a little closer? Thanks, Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
Neat! Nice to hear about a local... ;-) Mark Lots'a locals. Are you a member of CAMS? see: http://www.cams-club.org/index.html DC -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
Jon, Also notice that when you touch off it asks you what coordinate system you want to set via the touch off. For some reason I tend to use G55 on my lathe. Then after I am all setup. I have a G55 near the top of my program to get into that coordinate system and run the program. As you can see there are a number of ways to do this... Dave On 3/25/2010 7:07 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 25 March 2010 11:19, John Guentherj.guent...@verizon.net wrote: At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. I think that is the problem. The machine coordinates are fixed to the axes and can only easily be relocated by a homing process. The machine will refuse to move outside these limits. I think you said that you have no home switches? In that case I can't remember what happens when you home the axis, I think that the current physical position becomes the point at which the machine absolute numerical position takes the value from the ini-file axis home position. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. This is exactly what the working coordinate systems are for. If you change the view to Relative either from the menu or by pressing # then you will see the current working coordinate values. Note that you are _always_ on one of the working coordinate systems. You have to use special G-codes to move in the absolute machine coordinate space. The distinction might not be clear in cases where the working coordinate system has no offset from the machine coordinate system, and this will often be the case for a machine with no home switches. However, any G0, G1, G2, G3 etc move will always move in the current (probably G54) coordinates. So, for a machine with no home switches the start-up process would be: Select Absolute coordinate view Move to the extreme limits of travel of each axis. Home the axes from the GUI with the home button. I think you will see the machine coordinates take on the home position values from the INI file, but I could well be wrong. To save time and trouble you could set the home position to be mid-travel and set the axes limits symmetrical about this point. Change the view to Relative Coordinates Jog to where you want X=0 and Y=0 to be, set them to zero (or some other value) with the touch-off button. Bring your tool down to the height setter, select Z, press the touch-off button and type in your 2 tool height value. You should now be good to go. Clicking the DRO in Mach sounds to be doing exactly the same thing as EMC touch-off. There is also the option of touching-off into the Tool table, which can be useful for machines with multiple tool holders, less so for single collet machines. There is a lot more info on the Wiki, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?CoordinateSystems Bear in mind that my understanding of this issue is incomplete, and I don't have a machine here at work to experiment with. I still sometimes find myself in a bit of a tangle with offsets and programmed move would exceed machine minimum when there is clearly lots of space left. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: [snip] Hmmm. My first thought was also that it's a mechanical issue. I can imagine the rack geometry causing a problem like backlash. The thing I think of (and this is pure conjecture, I don't know that anyone would actually manufacture a rack with this feature) is that there are rest positions as the pinion moves over the rack. You should try the moves with extremely slow acceleration and velocity. Take the numbers you're using and divide them by 5 or 10. If you still have position errors, then it's pretty much got to be mechanical. You can also test by repeatedly doing MDI moves like G91 F10 G1 X0.001. The acceleration may be different for jogs vs. coordinated moves. One other thing, what's the axis scale? A small pinion (say 1.5 inches) moves ~4.7 inches per rev, which with a standard stepper, 10x microstepping, and 2:1 gearing is under 1000 steps/inch. You may not have the resolution to move 0.001 inches exactly. - Steve Steve, It doesn't seem to matter where along the length of the rack the gantry is, it happens whether it's in the middle of the rack or at either end (the rack is 6' long). The pinion diameter is 1, according to the maker of the RP setup, and when I measured the OD of the pinion it was slightly larger than 1 which makes sense if the pitch diameter is 1. Works out pretty easy in my case since with a 1 pitch diameter, the pinion moves 3.14159 per revoultion. Microstepping was set to 8, gearing is 3:1 reduction, and if I remember right there was a scale of somewhere around 1579.x or something close. OK, 1527.xxx is what you'd get there. The thing is, microsteps don't really increase your resolution, they're mostly there to prevent resonance. The number of real steps you have, where the motor has full torque, is 190.985/inch. That translates to a 0.005-ish step size. I think that might also explain the 0.001 moves - nothing happens until you get to the next full step (or close enough that it's the closer one), when the motor then clicks over to that full step position. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
At 09:29 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Neat! Nice to hear about a local... ;-) Mark Lots'a locals. Are you a member of CAMS? see: http://www.cams-club.org/index.html DC Huh, I'll be durned. Did not know that. Like the idea of CAMS. Only bad thing is I'm up for work at 0400 and the 7:30 - 10:00 meeting time plus the one hour drive from Burtonsville to Waldorf would tend to cut into my beauty sleep... ;-) You do machining for a living or are you an HSM'er? I work at NRL as a system and network admin, with the machining stuff being one of my hobbies as well as part of my rod making biz. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On 25 March 2010 13:45, Stephen Wille Padnos spad...@sover.net wrote: OK, 1527.xxx is what you'd get there. The thing is, microsteps don't really increase your resolution, they're mostly there to prevent resonance. The number of real steps you have, where the motor has full torque, is 190.985/inch. That translates to a 0.005-ish step size. I think that might also explain the 0.001 moves - nothing happens until you get to the next full step (or close enough that it's the closer one), when the motor then clicks over to that full step position. More detail on this issue here: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/micro.html#limits -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 09:45 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: [snip] more snippage Steve, It doesn't seem to matter where along the length of the rack the gantry is, it happens whether it's in the middle of the rack or at either end (the rack is 6' long). The pinion diameter is 1, according to the maker of the RP setup, and when I measured the OD of the pinion it was slightly larger than 1 which makes sense if the pitch diameter is 1. Works out pretty easy in my case since with a 1 pitch diameter, the pinion moves 3.14159 per revoultion. Microstepping was set to 8, gearing is 3:1 reduction, and if I remember right there was a scale of somewhere around 1579.x or something close. OK, 1527.xxx is what you'd get there. The thing is, microsteps don't really increase your resolution, they're mostly there to prevent resonance. The number of real steps you have, where the motor has full torque, is 190.985/inch. That translates to a 0.005-ish step size. I think that might also explain the 0.001 moves - nothing happens until you get to the next full step (or close enough that it's the closer one), when the motor then clicks over to that full step position. - Steve Yeah, I knew it was close to somewhere around 1500 something. So, based on the 190.985, that would cause resolution problems at .1 moves too? Guessing that the only way to fix this then would be to use a different pulley then - I'd either have to go at least 1/2 the size on the stepper pulley or double the pinion pulley to get enough resolution? Or change the pinion size, correct? (In reality, I'm pretty much stuck with changing out the stepper pulley, because the pinion/pulley assembly is a machined unit). Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 10:06 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 25 March 2010 13:45, Stephen Wille Padnos spad...@sover.net wrote: OK, 1527.xxx is what you'd get there. The thing is, microsteps don't really increase your resolution, they're mostly there to prevent resonance. The number of real steps you have, where the motor has full torque, is 190.985/inch. That translates to a 0.005-ish step size. I think that might also explain the 0.001 moves - nothing happens until you get to the next full step (or close enough that it's the closer one), when the motor then clicks over to that full step position. More detail on this issue here: http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/micro.html#limits -- atp Andy, Thanks for that. I'll do some more reading. mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Put a lesser indicator at each end of the span. The distance between is moot. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:20 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On 25 March 2010 14:16, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Yeah, I knew it was close to somewhere around 1500 something. So, based on the 190.985, that would cause resolution problems at .1 moves too? Guessing that the only way to fix this then would be to use a different pulley then Is it really a problem? It isn't like the inaccuracy is cumulative. Any position of the axis will be +/- a few thou, partly made up of stepper errors, partly of rack backlash plus all the other factors. It is most noticable on tiny moves, but I doubt that this machine is intended to create 0.01 width features. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Cal, 'Splain that one to me. I'm having trouble getting my mind around that setup and how it will determine the accuracy of the run down the x axis. I've never seen it done so I'm not sure how I'd set that up. Mark At 10:25 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Put a lesser indicator at each end of the span. The distance between is moot. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:20 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Integrator manual
Hi Rudy, the problem is that the devel documentation refers to the next version of emc2 (2.4.x, soon to be released). We will point the default documentation to the 2.4 docs, once the release has happened. Regards, Alex - Original Message - From: Rudy du Preez r...@asmsa.co.za To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Integrator manual Can all please take note: the Integrators (pdf) manual link on the main linuxcnc.org website is out of date. The latest manual is at linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/. It has the latest info on Hostmot2 for instance. Rudy -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 10:36 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 25 March 2010 14:16, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Yeah, I knew it was close to somewhere around 1500 something. So, based on the 190.985, that would cause resolution problems at .1 moves too? Guessing that the only way to fix this then would be to use a different pulley then Is it really a problem? It isn't like the inaccuracy is cumulative. Any position of the axis will be +/- a few thou, partly made up of stepper errors, partly of rack backlash plus all the other factors. It is most noticable on tiny moves, but I doubt that this machine is intended to create 0.01 width features. -- atp Andy, I'm not sure at this point. I'm not sure if the errors showing up are cumulative or not. I've only been able to test over a 1 1/2 stretch on the X axis. The typical cut run down the X axis will be between 42 and 52. I guess I need to see how much it's going to be off at those ranges. Actually, I am looking for + or - .001 accuracy on the strips I'm going to be cutting. That accuracy will be the height of the triangular cross section of the strip. On the tips of some of the rods I make, I routinely hand plane down to a .025 flat to apex height, and can usually hit that measurement within a thou. If the machine can't do that in production, it ain't gonna work for me. So, I need to make it accurate. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 10:36 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 25 March 2010 14:16, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Yeah, I knew it was close to somewhere around 1500 something. So, based on the 190.985, that would cause resolution problems at .1 moves too? Guessing that the only way to fix this then would be to use a different pulley then Is it really a problem? It isn't like the inaccuracy is cumulative. Any position of the axis will be +/- a few thou, partly made up of stepper errors, partly of rack backlash plus all the other factors. It is most noticable on tiny moves, but I doubt that this machine is intended to create 0.01 width features. -- atp I forgot to mention, the machine will be making a one pass cut from strip to finished piece, so all movement will be in one direction on each axis. Backlash should be fairly well minimized because of this. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
On 3/25/2010 10:05 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Huh, I'll be durned. Did not know that. Like the idea of CAMS. Only bad thing is I'm up for work at 0400 and the 7:30 - 10:00 meeting time plus the one hour drive from Burtonsville to Waldorf would tend to cut into my beauty sleep... ;-) You do machining for a living or are you an HSM'er? I work at NRL as a system and network admin, with the machining stuff being one of my hobbies as well as part of my rod making biz. I'm retired from NASA, Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt: machinist - metrologist - technologist - instrument and spacecraft assembly lead. Now a Sherline benchtop HSM into clockmaking and model engineering. I'm not able to make it to more than a few meetings a year, myself. But you should join the list -- good bunch of people, and a tremendous pool of expertise on an wide range of techie subjects. DC -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
At 11:00 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 3/25/2010 10:05 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Huh, I'll be durned. Did not know that. Like the idea of CAMS. Only bad thing is I'm up for work at 0400 and the 7:30 - 10:00 meeting time plus the one hour drive from Burtonsville to Waldorf would tend to cut into my beauty sleep... ;-) You do machining for a living or are you an HSM'er? I work at NRL as a system and network admin, with the machining stuff being one of my hobbies as well as part of my rod making biz. I'm retired from NASA, Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt: machinist - metrologist - technologist - instrument and spacecraft assembly lead. Now a Sherline benchtop HSM into clockmaking and model engineering. I'm not able to make it to more than a few meetings a year, myself. But you should join the list -- good bunch of people, and a tremendous pool of expertise on an wide range of techie subjects. DC I'll definitely join the list. When did you retire from Goddard? Know a coupla fellas by the name of Kurt Wolko or Vic Ezerski? Both real good friends of mine. mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark With a dial travel indicators set against some part of the moving member, the motion over any distance can be confirmed O--|--O is the same as O--|--O where the dots are empty distance. and O-- is an indicator. In example, move the work head to the left stop, back off the stop enough to place a travel indicator in place with about .200 compression. Mirror the set up on the Right side. Then command moves to and from these original positions. The travel indicators can be placed at any location along the table if mapping is desired. Move 0 O--|...--O Move +42 O--|--O Move 0 O--|--O (Check the dial indicator reading, did it repeat the original position?) Move +21 (half way down the table) O--..|--O Reset Indicator 2 O--...|--O Move 0 O--|...--O Move +21 O--.|--O (did the move repeat as shown by the indicator?) Repeat ad nauseum I have done such on a drilling machine (position only) when the operator complained that this machine just won't move as commanded. Hope it helps Cal - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:36 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies Cal, 'Splain that one to me. I'm having trouble getting my mind around that setup and how it will determine the accuracy of the run down the x axis. I've never seen it done so I'm not sure how I'd set that up. Mark At 10:25 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Put a lesser indicator at each end of the span. The distance between is moot. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:20 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark, I just looked through this thread and perhaps the discussion is getting a bit off the rails (in my humble opinion) Many many moons ago I also worked on stepper systems and they drove me nuts, exactly because of this: I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. My take on it is that there is resonance in the stepper, and exactly when EMC tells it to step forward, the rotor has resonated so far to the next step backwards that the step impulse in the stator windings make it jump the wrong way i.e. backwards. What happens from there on is anybody's guess sometimes you just lose that step, sometimes the motor stops and hums sometimes it might even move some more backwards. The cause of the resonance needs to be addressed, it can be one of: 1. acceleration to big, the rotor moves still syncronous but lags on the edge of the rotating field. Any disturbance kicks it out of syncronism. 2. acceleration change too sudden. vaguely the same as above and the sudden change in acceleration is the disturbing mechanism. 3. not enough mechanical damping. The rotor resonates all the time as it moves, the stepper frequency powers the resonance. Microstepping should solve this. 4. sloppy or loose rack and pinion movement. I.e. there is not enough damping in the region of the play. See 3. 5. Too much power. See 3 6. Too little power. See 1. the rotor lags too much. 8. And last but not least noise from the steppermotor power cables getting into the signal cable to the drive. One step out of time and synchronism is lost. 9. and lastlast: lousy stepper electronics / pc interface card. With not enough capacitance in the right place to feed the electronic circuits and so cause spikes. So the first line of attack to me would be to add a bit of friction to the motor and see if it gets better. I say this since it is a rack and pinion. Else check for noise in the signal cable. You might also want to see that there are no irregularities in the rack. Wind the thing by hand with the motor shaft! So well, good luck! Cheers, Jan de Kruyf. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Mornin' Gents, Had a little time to play yesterday evening to play around with my machine, so I decided to stick a dial indicator on both my X and Z axes (I only have those two, it's a gantry machine that cuts tapered triangular bamboo strips for making bamboo fly rods). The Z axis was dead nuts on, but I was get varied responses to jogs on the X axis. I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. At .01, the first couple of jogs would show about .001 - .002 short of the full .01 movement, then occasionally move the full .01, and then sometimes slightly more than .01. About the same for the .05 movement. At .1, the movement for the first few times was .003 - .004 short, but then would move almost dead nuts on to .1 each jog. I don't think backlash would come into play since all the moves were in the same direction. I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. I thought maybe it was a software setting, so I futzed around with the MAX_VELOCITY, MAX_ACCELERATION, and the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL. It is pretty cool to see a heavy gantry zipping back and forth on the machine at 180 inches a minute... ;-) Anything else I should look at? Or should I keep concentrating on tuning with the three variables above? Thanks, Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Cal, Okay, now I unnerstan'! Sometimes I just need a little prodding to get that figgered out. I'll give that a whirl tonight! Thanks! mark At 11:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark With a dial travel indicators set against some part of the moving member, the motion over any distance can be confirmed O--|--O is the same as O--|--O where the dots are empty distance. and O-- is an indicator. In example, move the work head to the left stop, back off the stop enough to place a travel indicator in place with about .200 compression. Mirror the set up on the Right side. Then command moves to and from these original positions. The travel indicators can be placed at any location along the table if mapping is desired. Move 0 O--|...--O Move +42 O--|--O Move 0 O--|--O (Check the dial indicator reading, did it repeat the original position?) Move +21 (half way down the table) O--..|--O Reset Indicator 2 O--...|--O Move 0 O--|...--O Move +21 O--.|--O (did the move repeat as shown by the indicator?) Repeat ad nauseum I have done such on a drilling machine (position only) when the operator complained that this machine just won't move as commanded. Hope it helps Cal - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:36 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies Cal, 'Splain that one to me. I'm having trouble getting my mind around that setup and how it will determine the accuracy of the run down the x axis. I've never seen it done so I'm not sure how I'd set that up. Mark At 10:25 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Put a lesser indicator at each end of the span. The distance between is moot. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:20 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Oh, In regard to the method post, Consideration for backlash must be part of the move distance. Whether Backlash Take Up (BTU) value or Uni directional Approach (UDA) compensation. There is always some! The use of travel indicators will tell you how much. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:36 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies Cal, 'Splain that one to me. I'm having trouble getting my mind around that setup and how it will determine the accuracy of the run down the x axis. I've never seen it done so I'm not sure how I'd set that up. Mark At 10:25 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Put a lesser indicator at each end of the span. The distance between is moot. - Original Message - From: Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:20 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies At 10:10 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: You also need to take into account the form accuracy of the rack and its gear, this will give a cyclic error at tooth rate. The stepper will not give accurate amounts with microsteps, again its a cyclic error between steps specially if the torque as a percentage of what the stepper can do. Dave Caroline Sure wish I knew somebody with a 52 dial indicator... ;-) That's the length of the run in the x axis. Be nice to see if this kinda all averages out over the length of the run. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Jan, Thanks. The pinion gear is held upward against the rack by a hefty spring. I've tried the jogging with light to medium to heavy spring settings, which while increasing the oomph required to move the gantry, didn't seem to make much of a difference in the inaccuracies in the jogging. I'll play some more with the acceleration settings and see what i get out of that. Considering what Steve was saying though, I'm thinking I may have to change sizes on my motor pulley though to get more basic steps per rev to increase the resolution. mark At 11:16 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark, I just looked through this thread and perhaps the discussion is getting a bit off the rails (in my humble opinion) Many many moons ago I also worked on stepper systems and they drove me nuts, exactly because of this: I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. My take on it is that there is resonance in the stepper, and exactly when EMC tells it to step forward, the rotor has resonated so far to the next step backwards that the step impulse in the stator windings make it jump the wrong way i.e. backwards. What happens from there on is anybody's guess sometimes you just lose that step, sometimes the motor stops and hums sometimes it might even move some more backwards. The cause of the resonance needs to be addressed, it can be one of: 1. acceleration to big, the rotor moves still syncronous but lags on the edge of the rotating field. Any disturbance kicks it out of syncronism. 2. acceleration change too sudden. vaguely the same as above and the sudden change in acceleration is the disturbing mechanism. 3. not enough mechanical damping. The rotor resonates all the time as it moves, the stepper frequency powers the resonance. Microstepping should solve this. 4. sloppy or loose rack and pinion movement. I.e. there is not enough damping in the region of the play. See 3. 5. Too much power. See 3 6. Too little power. See 1. the rotor lags too much. 8. And last but not least noise from the steppermotor power cables getting into the signal cable to the drive. One step out of time and synchronism is lost. 9. and lastlast: lousy stepper electronics / pc interface card. With not enough capacitance in the right place to feed the electronic circuits and so cause spikes. So the first line of attack to me would be to add a bit of friction to the motor and see if it gets better. I say this since it is a rack and pinion. Else check for noise in the signal cable. You might also want to see that there are no irregularities in the rack. Wind the thing by hand with the motor shaft! So well, good luck! Cheers, Jan de Kruyf. On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Mornin' Gents, Had a little time to play yesterday evening to play around with my machine, so I decided to stick a dial indicator on both my X and Z axes (I only have those two, it's a gantry machine that cuts tapered triangular bamboo strips for making bamboo fly rods). The Z axis was dead nuts on, but I was get varied responses to jogs on the X axis. I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. At .01, the first couple of jogs would show about .001 - .002 short of the full .01 movement, then occasionally move the full .01, and then sometimes slightly more than .01. About the same for the .05 movement. At .1, the movement for the first few times was .003 - .004 short, but then would move almost dead nuts on to .1 each jog. I don't think backlash would come into play since all the moves were in the same direction. I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. I thought maybe it was a software setting, so I futzed around with the MAX_VELOCITY, MAX_ACCELERATION, and the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL. It is pretty cool to see a heavy gantry zipping back and forth on the machine at 180 inches a minute... ;-) Anything else I should look at? Or should I keep concentrating on tuning with the three variables above? Thanks, Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Mornin' Gents, Had a little time to play yesterday evening to play around with my machine, so I decided to stick a dial indicator on both my X and Z axes (I only have those two, it's a gantry machine that cuts tapered triangular bamboo strips for making bamboo fly rods). The Z axis was dead nuts on, but I was get varied responses to jogs on the X axis. I tried it at .001, .05, .01 and .1 on the jog movement. At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, and other times it would jump .002 - .004. At .01, the first couple of jogs would show about .001 - .002 short of the full .01 movement, then occasionally move the full .01, and then sometimes slightly more than .01. About the same for the .05 movement. At .1, the movement for the first few times was .003 - .004 short, but then would move almost dead nuts on to .1 each jog. I don't think backlash would come into play since all the moves were in the same direction. At 165 pounds, it may be that the gantry is actually taking up some backlash as its stopping from the longer moves which would be faster. Can you, as its hooked up the motors enabled, induce a motion visible on the indicator by manually pushing or pulling it? And, equally important, does this 'slack' remain constant as you move it with the motors? If constant, then perhaps adding some backlash comp might help (but that's only effective for motion reversals of course), or if its position related, it might be possible to map the screws error. Wear patterns can be elusive, and mapping a cyclic error can be 'fun' for some definitions of fun. If you have many hours on the machine doing the same cuts over and over it might even be advisable to replace the screws. Or if the cutting dust can get to them, a really good cleaning might help. I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. Pinion gears, same thoughts about cleaning apply. I assume they are preloaded? I thought maybe it was a software setting, so I futzed around with the MAX_VELOCITY, MAX_ACCELERATION, and the STEPGEN_MAXACCEL. It is pretty cool to see a heavy gantry zipping back and forth on the machine at 180 inches a minute... ;-) Anything else I should look at? Or should I keep concentrating on tuning with the three variables above? Thanks, Mark --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) All that glitters has a high refractive index. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
I'll definitely join the list. When did you retire from Goddard? Know a coupla fellas by the name of Kurt Wolko or Vic Ezerski? Both real good friends of mine. Retired January '06. Those names don't ring a bell, but, it's a big place. I worked in Building 5, code 547, Advanced Manufacturing Branch. DC -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark Ahh so. I found when I was tuning up my new z axis drive which uses a gilmer belt with a 17 to 42 ratio, that it had to be _very_ taut, any visible amount of slack on the slack side of the movement and the detected backlash was very inconsistent. That belt has got to be tightly stretched. Even a year+ later, I'd imagine the tension is at least 25 pounds. That left me with about .0036 to put into the backlash setting, the lowest amount on that cheap HF mill. I could get better but the sled also tips on the post a few arcseconds if the gibs are loose enough to move it. Tight gibs, by raising the drag, actually make the tipping moment worse. Someday I have got to get a decent mill... --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) VMS version 2.0 == -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On 25 March 2010 14:49, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: I'm not sure at this point. I'm not sure if the errors showing up are cumulative or not. Not if they are due to backlash or microstepping nonlinearity. Actually, I am looking for + or - .001 accuracy on the strips I'm going to be cutting. That accuracy will be the height of the triangular cross section of the strip. But that accuracy is needed in the Z axis, which you have already stated is spot-on. (I am guessing it is a ballscrew?) On the tips of some of the rods I make, I routinely hand plane down to a .025 flat to apex height, and can usually hit that measurement within a thou. If the machine can't do that in production, it ain't gonna work for me. So, I need to make it accurate. I don't think any rack-and-pinion system will be accurate to sub-thou positional accuracy. However, as you are cutting a slow taper you need far less X accuracy than Z accuracy. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 11:56 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: At 165 pounds, it may be that the gantry is actually taking up some backlash as its stopping from the longer moves which would be faster. Can you, as its hooked up the motors enabled, induce a motion visible on the indicator by manually pushing or pulling it? And, equally important, does this 'slack' remain constant as you move it with the motors? If constant, then perhaps adding some backlash comp might help (but that's only effective for motion reversals of course), or if its position related, it might be possible to map the screws error. Wear patterns can be elusive, and mapping a cyclic error can be 'fun' for some definitions of fun. If you have many hours on the machine doing the same cuts over and over it might even be advisable to replace the screws. Or if the cutting dust can get to them, a really good cleaning might help. I'll give it a try manually moving the machine while the motion control system is up and running. Haven't tried that as of yet. It's a brand, spankin' new machine that has not cut anything yet, so if there's wear patterns anywhere, it'll be on my forehead where I've been rubbing in consternation... ;-) I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. Pinion gears, same thoughts about cleaning apply. I assume they are preloaded? Pinions are preloaded. Here's the RP setup: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21products_id=50 Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) All that glitters has a high refractive index. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
At 11:58 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: I'll definitely join the list. When did you retire from Goddard? Know a coupla fellas by the name of Kurt Wolko or Vic Ezerski? Both real good friends of mine. Retired January '06. Those names don't ring a bell, but, it's a big place. I worked in Building 5, code 547, Advanced Manufacturing Branch. DC Sounds kinda the same as it is here at the Naval Research Lab. Folks always ask me if I know one of their friend's that works here. Some I do, some I don't. Ya never know. I'll have to ask Kurt and Vic what building they work in and what Code they are. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 12:08 PM 3/25/2010, you wrote: This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark Ahh so. I found when I was tuning up my new z axis drive which uses a gilmer belt with a 17 to 42 ratio, that it had to be _very_ taut, any visible amount of slack on the slack side of the movement and the detected backlash was very inconsistent. That belt has got to be tightly stretched. Even a year+ later, I'd imagine the tension is at least 25 pounds. That left me with about .0036 to put into the backlash setting, the lowest amount on that cheap HF mill. I could get better but the sled also tips on the post a few arcseconds if the gibs are loose enough to move it. Tight gibs, by raising the drag, actually make the tipping moment worse. Someday I have got to get a decent mill... Belts are pretty darn snug, as is the turnbuckle tensioneer that holds the stepper/pinion assembly up against the rack. No gibs on this machine, just linear rails... ;-) -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) VMS version 2.0 == Ah, VMS. DEC in all it's glory! Still my favorite OS! Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On 25 March 2010 15:29, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Thanks. The pinion gear is held upward against the rack by a hefty spring. This is a small effect, but if the rack and pinion are not working at their exact design centre distance then the relative motion will have a cyclical irregularity. The gear and rack will have been cut assuming the normal amount of backlash clearance. However, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Don't invent problems, cut some strips and see if they meet your requirements before going through an intensive debugging process. If you really want that 52 DTI then you can rent a laser measurement system for the day. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 12:18 PM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 25 March 2010 14:49, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: I'm not sure at this point. I'm not sure if the errors showing up are cumulative or not. Not if they are due to backlash or microstepping nonlinearity. I'll have to make sure one way or the other. We have yet to determine that it's truly backlash that's causing the problem. Actually, I am looking for + or - .001 accuracy on the strips I'm going to be cutting. That accuracy will be the height of the triangular cross section of the strip. But that accuracy is needed in the Z axis, which you have already stated is spot-on. (I am guessing it is a ballscrew?) Yes and no. In order for the taper itself to be accurate, those flat to apex (Z axis) dimensions have to be met at darn near the spot-on length (X axis). Remember, there's going to be 6 of these strips glued up to make a rod section, and that rod section would look kinda funky if the flat to apex dimensions didn't quite line up. On the tips of some of the rods I make, I routinely hand plane down to a .025 flat to apex height, and can usually hit that measurement within a thou. If the machine can't do that in production, it ain't gonna work for me. So, I need to make it accurate. I don't think any rack-and-pinion system will be accurate to sub-thou positional accuracy. However, as you are cutting a slow taper you need far less X accuracy than Z accuracy. Don't need to be sub thou. Just + or - .001. If the X axis is consistently off .001 or .002 per inch, and it's cumulative, it'll end up being close to .050 by the end of the strip. I'm thinking that's a bit much. -- atp Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 11:56 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: At 165 pounds, it may be that the gantry is actually taking up some backlash as its stopping from the longer moves which would be faster. Can you, as its hooked up the motors enabled, induce a motion visible on the indicator by manually pushing or pulling it? And, equally important, does this 'slack' remain constant as you move it with the motors? If constant, then perhaps adding some backlash comp might help (but that's only effective for motion reversals of course), or if its position related, it might be possible to map the screws error. Wear patterns can be elusive, and mapping a cyclic error can be 'fun' for some definitions of fun. If you have many hours on the machine doing the same cuts over and over it might even be advisable to replace the screws. Or if the cutting dust can get to them, a really good cleaning might help. I'll give it a try manually moving the machine while the motion control system is up and running. Haven't tried that as of yet. It's a brand, spankin' new machine that has not cut anything yet, so if there's wear patterns anywhere, it'll be on my forehead where I've been rubbing in consternation... ;-) ROTFLMAO! I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. Pinion gears, same thoughts about cleaning apply. I assume they are preloaded? Pinions are preloaded. Here's the RP setup: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21products_id=50 Cool. I'd have reservations about sub thou accuracy with it. Straight cut rack pinions will have some cyclic errors, repeatable on a tooth per basis, but that has already been said. Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) All that glitters has a high refractive index. Mark --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Once harm has been done, even a fool understands it. -- Homer -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port PC Card Disabled
Przemek Klosowski wrote: did you check the on-board peripherals section of the BIOS, to make sure that the parallel port is enabled? Most likely, the on-board peripherals section of the BIOS screen will not know anything about PCMCIA plug-in boards. Jon -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 12:38 PM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 11:56 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: At 165 pounds, it may be that the gantry is actually taking up some backlash as its stopping from the longer moves which would be faster. Can you, as its hooked up the motors enabled, induce a motion visible on the indicator by manually pushing or pulling it? And, equally important, does this 'slack' remain constant as you move it with the motors? If constant, then perhaps adding some backlash comp might help (but that's only effective for motion reversals of course), or if its position related, it might be possible to map the screws error. Wear patterns can be elusive, and mapping a cyclic error can be 'fun' for some definitions of fun. If you have many hours on the machine doing the same cuts over and over it might even be advisable to replace the screws. Or if the cutting dust can get to them, a really good cleaning might help. I'll give it a try manually moving the machine while the motion control system is up and running. Haven't tried that as of yet. It's a brand, spankin' new machine that has not cut anything yet, so if there's wear patterns anywhere, it'll be on my forehead where I've been rubbing in consternation... ;-) ROTFLMAO! Heh, I've been designing and building this monstrosity for a little over 5 years now. Been much hair pulling and forehead rubbing during that time, and now that it's almost all together, I just want the damn thing to work right... ;-) I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. Pinion gears, same thoughts about cleaning apply. I assume they are preloaded? Pinions are preloaded. Here's the RP setup: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21products_id=50 Cool. I'd have reservations about sub thou accuracy with it. Straight cut rack pinions will have some cyclic errors, repeatable on a tooth per basis, but that has already been said. Yeh, sub-thou ain't necessary, but a wee bit less than .005 - .010 is definitely what I'm shooting for. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Once harm has been done, even a fool understands it. -- Homer Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
At 12:28 PM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On 25 March 2010 15:29, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: Thanks. The pinion gear is held upward against the rack by a hefty spring. This is a small effect, but if the rack and pinion are not working at their exact design centre distance then the relative motion will have a cyclical irregularity. The gear and rack will have been cut assuming the normal amount of backlash clearance. However, I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Don't invent problems, cut some strips and see if they meet your requirements before going through an intensive debugging process. If you really want that 52 DTI then you can rent a laser measurement system for the day. -- atp Yeh, I hear ya. I just want to make sure it's as accurate and repeatable as the software and hardware allow it to be before I go wasting material. Mark -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Res: Emc-users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 94
Please unsubscribe Claudio Enviado do meu BlackBerry® da TIM -Original Message- From: emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:33:19 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Emc-users Digest, Vol 47, Issue 94 Send Emc-users mailing list submissions to emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net You can reach the person managing the list at emc-users-ow...@lists.sourceforge.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Emc-users digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: DAQ of the day. (D.C.Clark) 2. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Gene Heskett) 3. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Andy Pugh) 4. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Mark Wendt (Contractor)) 5. Re: DAQ of the day. (Mark Wendt (Contractor)) 6. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Mark Wendt (Contractor)) 7. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Andy Pugh) 8. Re: Jogging inaccuracies (Mark Wendt (Contractor)) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:58:44 -0400 From: D.C.Clark dcclark...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day. To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 4bab8834.1060...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'll definitely join the list. When did you retire from Goddard? Know a coupla fellas by the name of Kurt Wolko or Vic Ezerski? Both real good friends of mine. Retired January '06. Those names don't ring a bell, but, it's a big place. I worked in Building 5, code 547, Advanced Manufacturing Branch. DC -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:08:52 -0400 From: Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 201003251208.52959.gene.hesk...@gmail.com Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 08:43 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: Mark Wendt (Contractor) pravi: At .001, sometimes I'd get no movement (I'd here stepper motor noise but no movement on the dial indicator), other times I'd get a half-thou, This can be only mechanical then... Check backlash and endplay of nut... check coupler too.. If motor make step and gantry not then don't blew software :D Slavko. This is on a rack and pinion system, pulley mounted directly on stepper, pinion has pulley mounted directly to it, with cogged timing belt driving the pinion. All these numbers were with the gantry moving in one direction, jog and hold, jog and hold, while watching the dial indicator for movement between jogs, which there was none. Does backlash come into play when all moves are in the same direction? Mark Ahh so. I found when I was tuning up my new z axis drive which uses a gilmer belt with a 17 to 42 ratio, that it had to be _very_ taut, any visible amount of slack on the slack side of the movement and the detected backlash was very inconsistent. That belt has got to be tightly stretched. Even a year+ later, I'd imagine the tension is at least 25 pounds. That left me with about .0036 to put into the backlash setting, the lowest amount on that cheap HF mill. I could get better but the sled also tips on the post a few arcseconds if the gibs are loose enough to move it. Tight gibs, by raising the drag, actually make the tipping moment worse. Someday I have got to get a decent mill... --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) VMS version 2.0 == -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:18:26 + From: Andy Pugh a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 62cd38031003250918i46404511ue74b7953727c3...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 25 March 2010 14:49, Mark Wendt (Contractor) mark.we...@nrl.navy.mil wrote: ? ? ? ? I'm not sure at this point. ?I'm not sure if the errors
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 12:38 PM 3/25/2010, you wrote: On Thursday 25 March 2010, Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: At 11:56 AM 3/25/2010, you wrote: At 165 pounds, it may be that the gantry is actually taking up some backlash as its stopping from the longer moves which would be faster. Can you, as its hooked up the motors enabled, induce a motion visible on the indicator by manually pushing or pulling it? And, equally important, does this 'slack' remain constant as you move it with the motors? If constant, then perhaps adding some backlash comp might help (but that's only effective for motion reversals of course), or if its position related, it might be possible to map the screws error. Wear patterns can be elusive, and mapping a cyclic error can be 'fun' for some definitions of fun. If you have many hours on the machine doing the same cuts over and over it might even be advisable to replace the screws. Or if the cutting dust can get to them, a really good cleaning might help. I'll give it a try manually moving the machine while the motion control system is up and running. Haven't tried that as of yet. It's a brand, spankin' new machine that has not cut anything yet, so if there's wear patterns anywhere, it'll be on my forehead where I've been rubbing in consternation... ;-) ROTFLMAO! Heh, I've been designing and building this monstrosity for a little over 5 years now. Been much hair pulling and forehead rubbing during that time, and now that it's almost all together, I just want the damn thing to work right... ;-) I disconnected the pinion gears from the racks, moved the gantry back and forth the length of the X axis a few times by hand, and didn't really notice any binding. It seemed pretty smooth, and relatively easy to move a 165 lb gantry on the rails. Pinion gears, same thoughts about cleaning apply. I assume they are preloaded? Pinions are preloaded. Here's the RP setup: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/product_info.php?cPath=21products_id=50 Cool. I'd have reservations about sub thou accuracy with it. Straight cut rack pinions will have some cyclic errors, repeatable on a tooth per basis, but that has already been said. Yeh, sub-thou ain't necessary, but a wee bit less than .005 - .010 is definitely what I'm shooting for. I would think that if the belt is tight, and the pinion mesh is solid, then the rest of it would be the cyclic error of the gears and that can be profiled out. I might be tempted to raise the ratio between the motor and the pinion by 2 or 3x to relieve that effect. I assume you are micro- stepping at about 8, so the increased ratio would make any cyclic error there smaller by the same amount. If small enough, then the rack pinion cyclic error will be the dominant one. Compensation for that of course means the use of highly repeatable home switches to establish your zero point, else the compensation would be applied in a random manner per powerup. That could be a real forehead damager when it occurs to one that the mapping must have a starting at zero reference point. ;-) Question? Are you going to be sawing or cutting with a knife? I'd think that cutting might be subject to the knife wanting to follow the grain of the bamboo. A bigger error the machine cannot hope to compensate for. But the rod will be stronger if its allowed due to less cross grain cutting. Slight crookedness is then pulled back out in the glueup. I once had a cheap bamboo rod with a pronounced 1/4 wobble that would not 'hang out' in the last foot of it, and it was still the sweetest rod I ever owned. I could set a 5 gallon bucket someplace where I had clear working room and put a #14 fly in it 90% of the time at 50 feet, half the time at 80 feet. The late thing with the carbon fiber is still 10x too darned stiff for me. I have one and it is in the boat, but rarely used. The feel of the line back into your hand just isn't there. Have you considered what the finished price range will be? I might be a potential customer if I don't fall over first. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Once harm has been done, even a fool understands it. -- Homer Mark --- --- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap,
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port PC Card Disabled
Wow, it worked! Thanks for the great tip Alex! Now the device is no longer [disabled] For anyone else facing this issue in the future I followed the instructions here: http://www.thecooltool.com/files/dateien_578.pdf Namely: --- A) The file 'emc2' in the directory /etc/modprob.de has to be removed, or even better moved. usern...@computername:~$ sudo mv /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 /emc2 B) Setting up the interface: usern...@computername:~$ sudo modprobe parport_pc usern...@computername:~$ sudo modprobe parport_cs usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod ppdev usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod lp usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod parport_cs usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod parport_pc --- Thanks again. Karl On Mar 25, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Alex Joni wrote: for PCMCIA cards I found that the only way to make them work was to load the linux drivers, then unload them. Specifically parport_cs (so do something like: modprobe parport_cs, check /proc/ioports for your card, rmmod parport_cs (and dependencies if needed.. been a while, can't remember exactly if there were any)). Regards, Alex -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] I wanna Go Home :-)
Hey Guys, First a little introduction. My name is Steve Robertson and I live in the mountains of Western North Carolina. I have always been fascinated by robots and industrial machines but, until now, have never had the opportunity to work/play with one. I am a newby to CNC and machining so, forgive me for any stupid questions that I might ask. I have read many of the posts in the forums and found the info there to be invaluable. I am crrently building a fixed gantry 3 axis mill that will be used primarily for drilling and routing of PC boards. The major construction is finished and I am ready to put the finishing touches on it. At this time, all three axis move smoothly but, both the mechanical and software components will need some tweaking. While not professional in appearance or function, I am still proud of the machine and expect it will perform adequately. So to my questions: Where is home? Does it matter? From what I gather the X-Axis is generally considered the movement of the tool from left-to-right. The Y-axis is considered to be movement toward and away from the front of the machine. The Z-axis is of course, the up-down movement. From what little I understand, the Z-axis would be homed when the tool is moved away from the workpiece. In the case, fully retracted upwards. Is this correct? In my machine the tool moves left and right. Which direction is home? When the tool is moved fully to the left? Or when the tool is moved fully to the right? In this machine the workpiece is mounted on slides that move it towards and away from the front of the machine. Is the home position when the table (workpiece) is moved forward (towards the front) or when the table is moved rearward (away from the front)? Lastly, I am very impressed with EMC and expect to spend many happy hours playing with my new toy. Thanks, SteveRob steerex [at] ccvn [dot] com -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I wanna Go Home :-)
Steve Robertson wrote: Hey Guys, First a little introduction. My name is Steve Robertson and I live in the mountains of Western North Carolina. I have always been fascinated by robots and industrial machines but, until now, have never had the opportunity to work/play with one. I am a newby to CNC and machining so, forgive me for any stupid questions that I might ask. I have read many of the posts in the forums and found the info there to be invaluable. I am crrently building a fixed gantry 3 axis mill that will be used primarily for drilling and routing of PC boards. The major construction is finished and I am ready to put the finishing touches on it. At this time, all three axis move smoothly but, both the mechanical and software components will need some tweaking. While not professional in appearance or function, I am still proud of the machine and expect it will perform adequately. So to my questions: Where is home? Does it matter? From what I gather the X-Axis is generally considered the movement of the tool from left-to-right. The Y-axis is considered to be movement toward and away from the front of the machine. The Z-axis is of course, the up-down movement. Correct. One thing to note is that the motion is based on the tool, not the machine. Assuming you're standing in front of the machine, -X means the tool moves to the left, +X means the tool moves to the right, +Y means the tool moves away from you, -Y means the tool moves towards you, and for Z motion +Z means up and -Z means down. That can be counterintuitive - moving Z negative cuts away more material. These shouldn't be an issue since you have a gantry - on a mill where the spindle is fixed (like a Bridgeport), the table moves in the opposite direction. From what little I understand, the Z-axis would be homed when the tool is moved away from the workpiece. In the case, fully retracted upwards. Is this correct? Yes, that generally makes sense, since it would retract the tool from the workpiece. In my machine the tool moves left and right. Which direction is home? When the tool is moved fully to the left? Or when the tool is moved fully to the right? You can pick any location for the home location, any location for the zero point, and any location for the home switch (provided that the switch is on when the tool is to the left and off to the right (or vice versa)). Usually, X zero will be on the left or in the center. It's up to you how you want to do it. There are settings that tell EMC2 where the home switch is and where to go after finding it - they don't have to be the same place. In this machine the workpiece is mounted on slides that move it towards and away from the front of the machine. Is the home position when the table (workpiece) is moved forward (towards the front) or when the table is moved rearward (away from the front)? Ah - here's one of those reversed axes :) When the table moves toward you, that means that the tool is effectively moving away, or +Y. Like I said, you can mount the home switch on either end. You just tell EMC2 that the home switch position is at the 48 mark or wherever. These settings are described in the homing section in the manual. Lastly, I am very impressed with EMC and expect to spend many happy hours playing with my new toy. Indeed. Enjoy. :) - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Port PC Card Disabled
On Thursday 25 March 2010, darcys...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, it worked! Thanks for the great tip Alex! Now the device is no longer [disabled] For anyone else facing this issue in the future I followed the instructions here: http://www.thecooltool.com/files/dateien_578.pdf Namely: --- A) The file 'emc2' in the directory /etc/modprob.de has to be removed, or even better moved. usern...@computername:~$ sudo mv /etc/modprobe.d/emc2 /emc2 B) Setting up the interface: usern...@computername:~$ sudo modprobe parport_pc usern...@computername:~$ sudo modprobe parport_cs usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod ppdev usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod lp usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod parport_cs usern...@computername:~$ sudo rmmod parport_pc --- Thanks again. Karl On Mar 25, 2010, at 3:36 AM, Alex Joni wrote: for PCMCIA cards I found that the only way to make them work was to load the linux drivers, then unload them. Specifically parport_cs (so do something like: modprobe parport_cs, check /proc/ioports for your card, rmmod parport_cs (and dependencies if needed.. been a while, can't remember exactly if there were any)). Regards, Alex Great link, solves some problems with otherwise strange hardware I believe. Thanks bookmarked for future reference. Much of this can be incorporated into the /etc/rc.d/rclocal file so it is done automatically at startup. You'll probably have to sudo yourself to edit that file. Alternatively, the startup file for emc could be modified I assume but I haven't tried that personally. -- Cheers, Gene There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Jayne: These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me. --Episode #2, The Train Job -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DAQ of the day.
Hi David, G92 seems to work, I will try that when I move the EMC computer to the shop tomorrow and try once again to cut some parts with EMC. Last weekend I had to switch back to Mach3 because the frustration factor got way too high with EMC. Thanks for the help. John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, Virginia On Thu, 2010-03-25 at 08:32 -0400, D.C.Clark wrote: On 3/25/2010 7:19 AM, John Guenther wrote: Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, jury duty is keeping me busy and tired. At any rate, I out of habit use machine coordinates all the time. Perhaps a better example of what I would like to be able to do is this. I use a manual tool height setter. I put it a new tool, then jog Z down until the tool height setter shows 0 on its dial. Now I need to be able to tell EMC that the Z axis is at 2 inches above the work. How can I do this in EMC? I have tried the work offsets as suggested and that is not working for me. In Mach3 I just click on the Z axis DRO and enter 2.00 and I am ready to go. Thanks John Guenther 'Ye Olde Pen Maker' Sterling, VIrginia Hi John, MDI: G92 Z2.0 see page 90 of http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf David Clark in Southern Maryland, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Jogging inaccuracies
Mark Wendt (Contractor) wrote: Ah, VMS. DEC in all it's glory! Still my favorite OS! Very sad! It was so CONSISTENT, if a particular option was in a particular place, or spelled a certain way, it would be that way everywhere it appeared! That was wonderful. Now that I am a pretty-well converted Linux guy, I can see some of the places it didn't run all that well. One was if files got too fragmented, the file system (RMS) would just crash, and the de-fragmenting was pretty messy, rolling the whole volume to tape and restoring. Creating a child process was awfully slow. As memory got bigger, the page size was way too small, and the page table became a monster. The Alpha architecture tried to fix the last one, but it only partially accomplished that. We still have an Alpha system running at work. I finally retired my home VaxStation-II that I built from boards bought from brokers. KA-630, VCB-02. The hard drive croaked. Jon -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Any ideas on how to achieve independent axis motion in GCode
Hi everyone, Is it possible to send the Y axis off on a very long rapid while doing coordinated motion with 2 other axises while the Y is travelling? The reason I would like to do this is that I have EMC2 controlling a pick place machine using generated GCode. The machine picks up a chip, bangs a centering plate against the chip to center it, rotates the chip 90 degrees, repeats until all four sides have been centered then moves to the final XY position before placing the chip. The chip's rotation is controlled by the A axis and the centering plate is controlled by the V axis. This video shows the process much better then I can describe it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUEPkOa2BNM#t=0m51s The Y axis is the slowest axis in terms of acceleration and velocity. Ideally I'd like to start the Y movement and somehow do the centering with the A and V axis while the Y is moving, but haven't really come up with a good way. This would cut the chip placement time in half since the centering could happen while the Y axis was traveling. I tried to queue a G00 Y10 movement followed by a G01 A1 V1 hoping that the G01 would take place concurrently with the G00 but it was a long shot and didn't work. Anyone have any ideas how this might be accomplished? I'm willing to give anything a shot. Thanks for any ideas anyone can give! Lawrence -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
Will someone comment on the PC system requirements in regard to Latency numbers when using FPGA cards such as Mesa 7I43, in a three axis stepper application? There seems to be so much attention focused on the latency issuein the EMC documentation etc. The FPGA cards would seem to take much of the load off the machine processor. Have I some disconnected wire (figurative) somewhere? ;-) Thanks Cal -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
hi,cal: In my opinion,FPGA card seems to have little connection with Latency thing. Generally speaking The PC system just give the FPGA card a command,so how to send pulse (or voltage),and read encoder number is the duty of FPGA itself.I think that will take little resource of PC.The Latency is sth about the character of OS,(also too much work load may also affect but obviously FPGA board NOT) shining 3.26 2010/3/26 Cal Grandy cmg...@comcast.net Will someone comment on the PC system requirements in regard to Latency numbers when using FPGA cards such as Mesa 7I43, in a three axis stepper application? There seems to be so much attention focused on the latency issuein the EMC documentation etc. The FPGA cards would seem to take much of the load off the machine processor. Have I some disconnected wire (figurative) somewhere? ;-) Thanks Cal -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
It would seem that with the motion commands to the FPGA coming in blocks, any short duration interruption would have little effect on the motion. - Original Message - From: ??? scut...@gmail.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 23:06 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency hi,cal: In my opinion,FPGA card seems to have little connection with Latency thing. Generally speaking The PC system just give the FPGA card a command,so how to send pulse (or voltage),and read encoder number is the duty of FPGA itself.I think that will take little resource of PC.The Latency is sth about the character of OS,(also too much work load may also affect but obviously FPGA board NOT) shining 3.26 2010/3/26 Cal Grandy cmg...@comcast.net Will someone comment on the PC system requirements in regard to Latency numbers when using FPGA cards such as Mesa 7I43, in a three axis stepper application? There seems to be so much attention focused on the latency issuein the EMC documentation etc. The FPGA cards would seem to take much of the load off the machine processor. Have I some disconnected wire (figurative) somewhere? ;-) Thanks Cal -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] jdi.py
Hi, I have a quick question regarding the jdi.py program by Jeff Epler. http://axis.unpy.net/01167419757 Is there a particular file structure that is required to run this? i.e. where should I be putting the jdi.py file? I note that the current folder and the ./lib/python folder is being added to the classpath, but it seems that the python emc library imports without it. Also, when editing the .ini file to add the DISPLAY=jdi.py, should this be a full or relative path? If someone could give me some guidance about the required (or best practice) file structure that would be great. Finally, the basic workflow is to run jdi.py from the command line, where by emc is invoked, which inturn reads the DISPLAY=jdi.py and loads the script? It would be good to get it straight in my head exactly what is going on... Thanks for your help. Karl -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
Cal Grandy wrote: Will someone comment on the PC system requirements in regard to Latency numbers when using FPGA cards such as Mesa 7I43, in a three axis stepper application? There seems to be so much attention focused on the latency issuein the EMC documentation etc. The FPGA cards would seem to take much of the load off the machine processor. Since you no longer need a base thread at all, the only processing the PC needs to do is at the 1 ms time scale or thereabouts. You can easily tolerate 5-10% timing variation in that thread, so latencies of 50-100us should be fine. Contrast that to 20-30us as a realistic upper bound for reasonable performance with software stepping. For really good software stepping performance, you'd want 10-15us as the upper bound, and the lower the better. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 23:47:16 -0400 From: Stephen Wille Padnos spad...@sover.net Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency Cal Grandy wrote: Will someone comment on the PC system requirements in regard to Latency numbers when using FPGA cards such as Mesa 7I43, in a three axis stepper application? There seems to be so much attention focused on the latency issuein the EMC documentation etc. The FPGA cards would seem to take much of the load off the machine processor. Since you no longer need a base thread at all, the only processing the PC needs to do is at the 1 ms time scale or thereabouts. You can easily tolerate 5-10% timing variation in that thread, so latencies of 50-100us should be fine. Contrast that to 20-30us as a realistic upper bound for reasonable performance with software stepping. For really good software stepping performance, you'd want 10-15us as the upper bound, and the lower the better. - Steve Also with the rate generator type hardware stepgens (Mesa or Pico USC) an interesting thing is that even the relaxed 100 usec or so latency is only critical during fast accell or decell. When you are gliding along at a constant speed the CPU is hardly needed at all. So even with a crashed CPU the steps will continue to be generated at the last programmed rate (a good reason to have watchdog or chargepump shutdown) Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] FPGA and Latency
夏一宁 wrote: hi,cal: In my opinion,FPGA card seems to have little connection with Latency thing. Generally speaking The PC system just give the FPGA card a command,so how to send pulse (or voltage),and read encoder number is the duty of FPGA itself.I think that will take little resource of PC.The Latency is sth about the character of OS,(also too much work load may also affect but obviously FPGA board NOT) Right, the accelerator card doesn't affect latency, but it changes the DEPENDENCE on latency. I have a different FPGA card, but the principle is mostly the same. If you are using software to generate step pulses, then you need some small number of microseconds of latency, or the step pulse timing will become quite ragged. By default, I update the external step pulse generator 1000 times a second. As long as the computer can service the external board within a millisecond, everything will stay smooth. So, even 100 us of latency will usually not cause horrible artifacts or cause steppers to stall. Jon -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
