[Emc-users] To gene 3 phase steppers

[jeremy youngs]

Good afternoon gene, curious if you have a link to a supplier of the 3
phase steppers and drives you are so fond of recently. Tia

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[Emc-users] Atomic pi

[jeremy youngs]

https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi?fbclid=IwAR0k6hdGM6u1RJSVNLPnkMxKnkg6CfnWs1szLEF9zhEj2YDZB0Z_PaWxVpQ

Any trying this ?

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Re: [Emc-users] Accuracy of servo gear heads

[jeremy youngs]

Thank you Kenneth for a concise explanation.

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018, 4:07 PM Kenneth Lerman  Well, three arc minutes is a 20th of a degree. There are 20 * 360 = 7200 of
> them in a circle. A circle with a diameter of 10 inches has a circumference
> of 10 * pi or 31.4 inches. Divide that by 7200 -> .004.
>
> So, you can probably answer the question. Imagine a flat piece of ground
> steel 10 inches square by 1/2 inch thick. Indicate it in to be perfectly
> horizontal. Then flip if over to the other side. Now run your indicator
> over that piece of steel. Is four thousandths too large an error? (The edge
> to edge difference will be twice that.)
>
> I think the answer is that is not precise enough, but your answer will
> depend on your application.
>
> Ken
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 3:57 PM jeremy youngs  wrote:
>
> > Hello all ,I just purchased several hd brand gear heads . I have a
> question
> > about the backlash call out of 3 arc minutes. One of these is fairly
> large
> > and I would like to use it as an engine block rollover . I have a 10*50
> > comet and I want to attach my van Norman boring bar to it . This will
> > eliminate having to lift that 250 lbs and allow measurement of bore
> without
> > disturbing the bar.
> > My question is , is 3arc minutes too much for this process ? And could
> > backlash be effectively reduced by putting a brake at the opposite end of
> > the rollover fixture and preloadi g the gear head ? Obviously attention
> to
> > that detail would be required. Thanks fellas
> >
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[Emc-users] Accuracy of servo gear heads

[jeremy youngs]

Hello all ,I just purchased several hd brand gear heads . I have a question
about the backlash call out of 3 arc minutes. One of these is fairly large
and I would like to use it as an engine block rollover . I have a 10*50
comet and I want to attach my van Norman boring bar to it . This will
eliminate having to lift that 250 lbs and allow measurement of bore without
disturbing the bar.
My question is , is 3arc minutes too much for this process ? And could
backlash be effectively reduced by putting a brake at the opposite end of
the rollover fixture and preloadi g the gear head ? Obviously attention to
that detail would be required. Thanks fellas

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Re: [Emc-users] More on bed wear fix

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Sep 25, 2018, 5:15 AM Gene Heskett  its carriage is so narrow its nigh impossible to use a qctp on it and
> keep the point of the tool within the carriages footprint on the bed.
> But I have a vivid memory of the difficulty in getting the brass,
> tapered gib dead straight with a file that wasn't straight so there
> wasn't a spring effect in setting it. The first month I used it, the
> final wear-in used up much of the adjustment range but its now quite
> solid and hasn't been readjusted since.
>

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123034789359
This is an excellent solution to the ways/Gibs problem. I f used just on
the dovetail it will likely move your gib enough you will need to re scrape
it, I did all sides of mine and had to narrow the Gib. I have a 12*34 belt
surfacer so that was not a huge issue for me. Good luck Gene .

>

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Re: [Emc-users] correct x error from bed wear

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Sep 8, 2018, 10:14 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> The A2 is slightly bent so I get about a
> 10 thou wobble in the middle of it, but with the spindle turning, the
> true center is easily seen. I have used the lathes x motor to try and
> straighten it better, but by the time I  get enough bow in it to make a
> diff, the rod shortens and pops the end off the live center.
>


Do you have a torch? Search heat straightening . You heat and cool with
> water and a rag to shrink the metal on one side and straighten, works well
> , it will probably harden the a 2 though. I'm not certain of temp needed
> but on large shaft it doesn't have to be incandescent.
>
> Incidentally ,this method is capable of straightening bent spindles.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] correct x error from bed wear

[jeremy youngs]

Gene , can you mount a probe on the carriage and probe a lathe alignment
bar ( or drill rod )?

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Re: [Emc-users] G43 weirdness

[jeremy youngs]

Is there a g40 in your prep line ?


>  At the end of my toolchange subroutine I have G43H#5400 to
> automatically apply the offsets for that tool.
>
> This is generally done in the first move off line . After calling tool and
> the prep line .
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Re: [Emc-users] Faro Arm bit ot

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 7:20 PM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>  I wanted this one to locate mounting holes and such on old vehicles.
> (Need to make a radiator that actually fits).  Again 1/16” is fine for
> that.
>
>
> Please, spare the torches and pitchforks. Stone not the messenger. I
> openly admit the sacrilige , and despise myself even mentioning this ,
> please make no mention after delivery 

My son's friend did this
http://www.techwarelabs.com/how-to-make-a-3d-scanner-from-an-xbox-360-kinect/
a win#+&$ 10 computer also includes the modeling software to regurgitate an
stl from the scan , it's pretty precise for as simple as it is .
All of that said I'm sure I shall pay penance now .
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 7:37 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 15 August 2018 at 01:21, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > What is the difference between ==> and => ?
>
> They don't do anything. You can leave them out.
>

Sorry I should have given more information Andy , in the net command . As I
understand it discerns flow ? But just 2 arguments will do the same , of
course with net ?

>
> > Also what command will show the pins of my current mesa 7i90
> configuration
>
> halcmd show pin
>
I wasn't as clear on this as I could have been but I don't know the
question I want to ask  my 7i90 is fully functional , hooked to my
optiplex 720 , there is no pi yet .
I found the pin information in the scrolling through halscope , with my
config print I was able to look at existing Hal file and sort the pins ,
signals and parameters that I need to get together . Thank you for your
patience , I will return to this . My biggest issue was one of not knowing
what the hm27i90 pins were named so I could net them to the right ones
. I will find success . Good day gents.

>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

What is the difference between ==> and => ?
Also what command will show the pins of my current mesa 7i90 configuration
?
I need to know what those pins are , so I can reassign them to A-VALUE and
B-value . I understand the name doesn't matter generally , but the 2 pins
already exist in this configuration and I don't know how to get the
information from my config .
Thank you
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[Emc-users] Re gene

[jeremy youngs]

Gene I sent you a few emails, one of them bounced , I don't know if the
others are in Cyberspace or not. Says cuda, recipient not allowed , I
suspect your filtering didn't like the links and pic I had sent
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 12:26 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 14 August 2018 11:46:38 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:28 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> > > On 14 August 2018 at 02:52, jeremy youngs 
> wrote:
> > > > Now it gives this
> > >
> > > The error is "setp needs 2 arguments, only one given" and tells you
> > > that the problem is on line 15 in qi.hal
> > >
> > > Line 15 in qi.hal says "setp hm2_7i90.0.pwmgen.00.scale"
> > > But has no value provided to set the scale to.
> > >
> > > Is this directly proportional ? I.e a value of 1 is 1% duty cycle
> > > max , 99 would be 99% and 100 = 100?
> >
> > I ask this also because my h-bridge ( driving x,y,z all need 99% max
> > as they are charge pumped) and can this scale be set at each axis ?
>
> Sure. Running my 1hp+ spindles with Jon's (Pico Systems) pwm-servo amps,
> which have a same requirements, thats part of my hal files. So is
> restarting the "boot" up of these amps everytime they are restarted from
> zero speed.
> Great , that is a very simple solution even I can follow
>

> Also , if I cd linuxcnc , servo Matson ( machine name ) will that load
> > the hostmot2 7i90 configuration? Then I can look at the hm2/7i90 pins
> > to properly net them . I took the 7i90 lines from the original servo
> > Matson Hal file , so they would be on the same pins as my 7i90 is set
> > up for ( the pwm and enable pin) will I have to change the pin
> > definition of the enable bit to pwmgen and will it need an address
> > different than pwmgen 02? Pwmgen 02 is net to A-out and it seems ok
> > with that .I assigned a value to scale and it then balked at line 18
> > needs 2 arguments , the issue for me is I don't know which hm2 7i90
> > pin to net to b-value I have changed a/b out back to their original
> > syntax of value , it was ok with the a-value assignment but did not
> > like the b-value assignment to the enable pin .
>
> The enable pin in a lot of this defaults to enabled if not connected at
> the amplifiers input. You don't feed it a pulse in any event. Its either
> on or off.
>
> The pin is already assigned in mess firmware , I do not want to use it as
> an enable , I want to use it for pwm , I need to assign it a pwm function
> but am unsure how to do that , and I have misplaced the script to allow me
> to see the mess configuration , even though you can name a pin whatever you
> want , I really want b-value to come out as a pwm on the existing enable
> pin and I am amiff as to how to actually do this , once the scale was
> assigned it was happy with the A-VALUE assignment.
>
> If handled correctly, this can make your H-bridges into a full, 4
> quadrant driver, meaning it will stop as quickly as it starts,
> recovering the energy by dumping it back into the psu, so direction
> reverses are done using the full power of the motor. My G0704 can
> reverse from 2k revs in the direction its running to 2k revs in the
> opposite direction in around 400 milliseconds. In fact I have a limit3
> in that path to slow it so the current limit 'chirp' from the driver is
> much less noticeable. The recovered energy from the stop is used to
> start it up in the reverse direction, so the psu voltage actually rises
> above the filter caps ratings while the slowdown is taking place, then
> returns to the normal run voltage once its back up to speed in the other
> direction. The caps in the psu won't fuss as the very momentary
> overvoltage just tends to re-form the caps for full rated voltage.
>
So far bench testing has shown this to be in fact very stiff ,

>
> So the which critter is which confusion remains. Would you like to see
> the stuff I'm running? It obviously won't run your bldc motors but might
> be informational enough to help. I won't clutter the list with 3000 LOC,
> but they'll send as PM to you. Maybe gzipped. Just ask.
>
> Yes, please . Also please don't zip it . As I only have my phone for
> access . Thank you
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Also , this should all run and operate from terminal when we get it right ,
correct?
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018, 3:28 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 14 August 2018 at 02:52, jeremy youngs  wrote:
>
> > Now it gives this
>
> The error is "setp needs 2 arguments, only one given" and tells you
> that the problem is on line 15 in qi.hal
>
> Line 15 in qi.hal says "setp hm2_7i90.0.pwmgen.00.scale"
> But has no value provided to set the scale to.
>
> Is this directly proportional ? I.e a value of 1 is 1% duty cycle max , 99
> would be 99% and 100 = 100?

I ask this also because my h-bridge ( driving x,y,z all need 99% max as
they are charge pumped) and can this scale be set at each axis ?

Also , if I cd linuxcnc , servo Matson ( machine name ) will that load the
hostmot2 7i90 configuration? Then I can look at the hm2/7i90 pins to
properly net them . I took the 7i90 lines from the original servo Matson
Hal file , so they would be on the same pins as my 7i90 is set up for ( the
pwm and enable pin) will I have to change the pin definition of the enable
bit to pwmgen and will it need an address different than pwmgen 02? Pwmgen
02 is net to A-out and it seems ok with that .I assigned a value to scale
and it then balked at line 18 needs 2 arguments , the issue for me is I
don't know which hm2 7i90 pin to net to b-value I have changed a/b out back
to their original syntax of value , it was ok with the a-value assignment
but did not like the b-value assignment to the enable pin .
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

The real solution Gene , is a pi , running a network , wifi to my phone so
I don't have to take pics of screen shots. So , even after I added link
sharing and did pastebin you cannot open them ?
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Sorry, this line

*bldc.**N**.drive-offset* float rw (default: *0*)

The angle, in degrees, applied to the commanded angle by the drive in
degrees. This value is only used during the homing sequence of drives with
incremental encoder feedback. It is used to back-calculate from commanded
angle to actual phase angle. It is only relevant to drives which expect
rotor-angle input rather than phase-angle demand. Should be 0 for most
drives.

*bldc.**N**.output-pattern* u32 rw

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 10:03 PM jeremy youngs  wrote:

> What does # before line mean ?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

What does # before line mean ?
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

*bldc.**N**.encoder-offset* s32 rw [if personality & 0x0A] (default: *0*)

The offset, in encoder counts, between the motor electrical zero and the
encoder zero modulo the number of counts per electrical revolution


I believe it's this line , my encoder is set to 1000 ppr , 1/2 revolution
per electrical revolution = 2000 counts  I don't know why it stacked up
like this

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 9:45 PM jeremy youngs  wrote:

> Try this
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wk5hmCqTuujFq9vc8
> Thank you
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Try this
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wk5hmCqTuujFq9vc8
Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 9:09 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 13 August 2018 21:52:44 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > I loadrt hostmot2
> >
> > And 7i90 at the top so it can find the 7i90 pins ( it was failing to
> > do that )
> > Now it gives this , I'm close , I can feel it , but I'm also ignorant
> > ant trying , lol. Sometimes that's all a steer can do to .
> >   terminal qi.jpg
> > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Uedha2IahFssFjNX4puq-4pwywhzhsx5/vie
> >w?usp=drivesdk>
> >
> >   qi.hal.jpg
> > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ejuDkTJCzWbZW20hCyowJlSWPdF82KGV/vie
> >w?usp=drivesdk>
> >
> I have a google account, but they have put so damned much security in
> front of these files that I cannot access them. Even after they sent me
> an access code, I guess its only good for my stuff.
> --
> I just turned link sharing on , manually , I thought I had it set on when
> I uploaded them. I am try to figure out how to load a pic to paste in now.
> An rpi is on the short list so I can get WiFi from my phone , I'll post
> pastebin when I figure that out, but you should be able to view them now.
> Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

I loadrt hostmot2
>
And 7i90 at the top so it can find the 7i90 pins ( it was failing to do
that )
Now it gives this , I'm close , I can feel it , but I'm also ignorant ant
trying , lol. Sometimes that's all a steer can do to .
  terminal qi.jpg


  qi.hal.jpg


Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Got the pin naming figure out , now to assign the pins to mesa card. I'm
rather unclear about that , I would like them to come out to the pwm/
direction pins currently assigned on 7i90 I think just copy and paste out
of current 7i90 config to the bldc config then attempt a start and see if
it goes . On reversing , does bldc swap u,v,w or does it invert the sine
wave? If it inverts then my pwm should be set to type 2? Correct?
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Bldc cfg=qi built , I don't get how to assign the Pins to the mesa card .
I found nothing in the 30 odd printed pages of hall tutorial that I have
will go to website and see if I can find clarification.
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

At 4.2 hal tutorial, connect pins to signals , the bldc docs don't give any
signals , are there none to be net commanded ?


>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018, 7:13 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 12 August 2018 at 23:47, jeremy youngs  wrote:
>
> > There are a few other questions I have . I would like to loadrt cfg=ngiiq
>
> ngiiq makes no sense. You can't have gray-coded quadrature. And why
> two indexes?
>

Motors without Hall sensors may be homed in synchronous/direct mode. The
better of these options is to home to the encoder zero using the *iq* config
parameter. When the *init* pin goes high the motor will rotate (in a
direction determined by the *rev* pin) until the encoder indicates an
index-latch (the servo thread runs too slowly to rely on detecting an
encoder index directly). If there is no encoder index or its location
relative to motor zero can not be found, then an alternative is to use
*magnetic* homing using the *q*config. In this mode the motor

>
> > but it won't do that but I think adding this thread is my current hurdle.
>
> You don't need to add any threads, they will already be there
>
Addf for bldc , the function and syntax finally occurred to me , and I have
the bldc component on a 100 thread .

>
> >  and will it be able to align with only 2 sinewaves
> > being controlled . And what to do with the extra pin
>
> You can just ignore the extra pin.
>
> I am very glad to hear that


>
> But you do need some way to convert the numerical value from the bldc
> component into a variable voltage on a hardware pin.
>
>
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F171992353893
>
I have 2 of these

Gone to get something to eat , then to step 4

> atp
>



"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

>
> For driving a bare H-bridge
>
Thank you Andy.

I am here

Let’s see if that worked:
Show Threads

halcmd: show thread

Realtime Threads:
 Period  FP Name   ( Time, Max-Time )
 999855  YES   test-thread (0,0 )

It did. The period is not exactly 1,000,000 ns because of hardware
limitations, but we have a thread that runs at approximately the correct
rate, and which can handle floating point functions. The next step is to
connect the function to the thread:
Add Function

halcmd: addf siggen.0.update test-thread

Up till now, we’ve been using *halcmd* only to look at the HAL. However,
this time we used the *addf* (add function) command to actually change
something in the HAL. We told *halcmd* to add the function *siggen.0.update* to
the
  ngi/iq.jpg

It will run at cfg=nqi , when I addf I get this.
There are a few other questions I have . I would like to loadrt cfg=ngiiq
but it won't do that but I think adding this thread is my current hurdle. I
also will need to edit poles count and I'm curious as to what the reversing
scheme looks like , and will it be able to align with only 2 sinewaves
being controlled . And what to do with the extra pin
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

*B* Bit level outputs. Either 3 or 6 logic-level outputs indicating which
high or low gate drivers on an external drive should be used

I don't quite follow this , define please
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 4:09 PM andy pugh  wrote:

>
> Yes, in "a" mode the bldc component can be used to convert resolver
> angle to commutation signals.
>


Sweet
>


Did your motor and drive start off life together?

No , I totally lucked into this motor from my favorite surplus outlet at
$200 to my door. I have swapped spindle motors 4 times in 2 years searching
for more power at liw speed. I figure at 6 hp , and 37.5 nm it ought to do
well. First I bought the wrong drive , then I bought the amt 31 encoder,
harness And programming cable only to find out that I did not need
bidirectional u,v,w signal for that drive.
I bought 2 wsdi bpu s3 32 30 drives 3 months ago for almost nothing. I have
verified these will function with sinusoidal commutatation by using 2 legs
of an old synchronous motor I had , I was also able to spin it with the
communication encoder , although I never got it stable , and I again
believe bilateral outpur us the issue. As I'm swinging an 8 inch facemill
the added torque of sinusoidal drive is very appealing.
Of note on the wsdi drive , I would have started with trying to get these
functional but it took me 3 months to get documentation .


If so, I would
> expect the resolvers to connect to the drive and for the drive to use
> the resolvers for commutation.
>
> My other possibilitiy is an amc resolver interface drive , it's around
> $400 so not in the near future
>
> > Correct me if I'm wrong been hashing docs in my spare time.
> > 1 open terminal , start hal session
> > 2 load bldc n qhi ??
>
> Not QHI if you don't have Hall sensors.
>
> > I seen an 8i20 confirmation on the forum , could I start with that ,
> > globally replace 8i20 with 7i90 ?
>
> No, the 8i20 is a motor driver, the 7i90 is an IO card.
>
> I will give it a shot sometime in the next 24
>
>
> --
>

atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] resolvers vs encoders was: Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 3:32 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 11 August 2018 15:24:17 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > I was also curious and found
> > https://www.motioncontroltips.com/faq-why-are-so-many-designers-replac
> >ing-re solvers-with-encoders/
>
> Some excellent discussions there Ken, thank you.
>
> One thing that was mentioned in another page there but only in passing
> was ptfe (teflon) in re sliding ways surfaces,
>
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F263619540144
I have been using this . I also milled slots in ways and used typar to fill
slots , the tape is much easier and the give need less material removal for
proper clearance when done. As to longevity of tape , I haven't used it
long , so the verdict is out , it makes a big difference though.

>
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

7i49, budget don't allow for it for a few weeks . I am busy in the shop
with big jobs , yes I have contemplated the 7i49 . Can the communication
signal be derived from the 7i49 ? If so then it's likely that will be my
eventuality.

Correct me if I'm wrong been hashing docs in my spare time.
1 open terminal , start hal session
2 load bldc n qhi ??
Assign pins u,v to the pwm and direction pins
Write and wait till it works then save, copy and paste to hal file ?

I seen an 8i20 confirmation on the forum , could I start with that ,
globally replace 8i20 with 7i90 ? I would like to get this close this
weekend and contact kollmorgen to get the proper communication scheme and
what phase angle is needed for this motor .
Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

I am planning on ignoring them at this time . I have a cui encoder that can
go on it.

On Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 1:24 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 10 August 2018 at 23:11, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > Good day gents. Trying to get a handle on sinusoidal commutatation. I
> need
> > 2 pins 0-5 volt 120 degrees out of phase to commutate my drive .
> > http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/bldc.9.html#OPERATING%20MODES
> > I find this in the docs , and am curious if the 7i90 can be coaxed to do
> > this and I don't necessarily know where to begin. My motor is a
> kollmorgen
> > eb 404 , with resolver and no Halls
>
>
> How are you reading the resolvers?
> (Or are you ignoring the reseovers)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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[Emc-users] Bldc commutatation

[jeremy youngs]

Good day gents. Trying to get a handle on sinusoidal commutatation. I need
2 pins 0-5 volt 120 degrees out of phase to commutate my drive .
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/bldc.9.html#OPERATING%20MODES
I find this in the docs , and am curious if the 7i90 can be coaxed to do
this and I don't necessarily know where to begin. My motor is a kollmorgen
eb 404 , with resolver and no Halls , the drive makes all other adjustment
, I just need to get this 2 of 3 legs to the drive I imagine I can use the
pwm and direction pins and just reassign them in hal with bldc and no
feedback except for encoder for position. Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Success story and a question

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 2:59 AM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Well that's certainly a failure in design / programming by the
> manufacturer. I'd have it so that when re-enabling Z the first and only
> thing it would be able to do is rehome Z up so it knows where Z is. Even if
> the manual says the operator has to power cycle and rehome everything after
> using Z disable, that's just passing the buck on bad design.
> Machinery should, wherever and whenever possible, be designed to make it
> impossible for operator action to damage the machine using controls on it.
> An all too common example is soft serve ice cream machines that have
> completely independent freeze and stir functions. That makes it possible to
> engage freeze without stir, then turn on stir and break things. A simple
> change in the switch wiring makes that damage impossible to do, while
> leaving the ability to stir without freeze, but *not* freeze without stir.
>
>

The real issue with the Mazak was being allowed to switch to handle / mdi
in the midst of modal operation, change the position of the machine and
begin move off without restarting from a prep line. The machine advances
from the last point while still referencing machine position plus , move
off. Restarting at the prep line would have reset the g54 command and the
machine would have moved from that reference point. I was fairly green ten
years Ago when this happened and I've not ventured to repeat that mistake
any time soon.
I'm a big advocate of setting 2 inches of offset for dry run as it prevents
crashes, the speed of that machine certainly did not help matters .

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Success story and a question

[jeremy youngs]

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 12:59 PM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> If the behavior is anything like the Z inhibit button on all the Fanuc
> machines I've worked with it is a horribly dangerous device.  On the Fanuc
> machines (modern newer ones with absolute encoders included) it is the
> equivalent of disconnecting the outputs of the stepgen and nothing else.
> When the button is released if the commanded Z position isn't the same as
> when it was pressed, the Z absolute position is shifted by the difference
> and can't be corrected without cycling the control power (rehoming doesn't
> even fix it).  And since most of our Fanuc machines use tool change
> routines that include Z axis moves, tool changes can't be done with the Z
> inhibit active, pretty much making it completely useless.
>
> Mazaks have similar behavior when feed held and shifted in handle. When
> placed back in auto move it will start from where it last was in auto mode
> and not reference the handle move off , this was the source of my biggest
> screw up ever , I ran a criterion millionths boring head straight into a
> renishaw toolsetter , killing both of them with 1200 ipm rapid.
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Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 11:54 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> #24 stranded won't be reliable with those red connectors.  They are made
> for #22 stranded wire.  You need the white 640441 connectors for #24.
>

Thank you, yep that's my observation, unreliable.

>
>
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TE+Connectivity+AMP+Connectors/3-640441-4/A30980-ND/698223
>
> Here is the simple tool.  You might find it on ebay too.
>
> Thank you
>
> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/TE+Connectivity+AMP+Connectors/59803-1/A9982-ND/132430
>
> -- Ralph
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

>
> I will search for that tool , I'm using cat 6 cable 24 gauge and pushing
> them in with a pocket screwdriver and they are coming loose . Of to search
> , thank you.
>
> I think TE (Amp) does make a simple "T" shaped hand tool for these, but
> it doesn't work nearly as well or as quickly as the pistol-grip tool I got.
>
> -- Ralph
> ________
> From: jeremy youngs [jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2018 8:27 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Punch down
>
> Thank you Ralph, I found 2 and they are more spendy then the next few weeks
> will allow. Would you mind posting a picture of what the crimp is supposed
> to look like please , are the 2 petals at top folded in ? Thank you , do
> you use the strain reliefs as well?
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 5:08 PM Ralph Stirling  >
> wrote:
>
> > https://photos.app.goo.gl/vn1yeNbHFBsm9GSe7
> >
> > This is what you want.  Not cheap, but I got the crimp head and handle in
> > separate ebay listings.  I use bags of the IDC connectors for hooking up
> > step motors and sensors in my lab.  I use 0.1" long-tail headers to
> connect
> > the MTA100 IDC connectors together.  Very handy for quick, temporary,
> > reusable setups.
> >
> > -- Ralph
> >
> > On Aug 7, 2018 1:00 PM, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > .1 amp # 64044 iirc
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 2:37 PM Ralph Stirling <
> ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is that an MTA100 or MTA156 (0.1" or 0.156" spacing)?
> > >
> > > -- Ralph
> > >
> > > On Aug 7, 2018 9:07 AM, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 8:27 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 7 August 2018 at 14:09, jeremy youngs 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hg2HvU06fmmGAS2EAECjnzW6PwX72aI4/view?usp=drivesdk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Does not appear to be public.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe it's fixed , sorry
> > >
> > > > atp
> > > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > > lunatics."
> > > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --
> > > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
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> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> --
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> >
> >
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>

Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

Thank you Ralph, I found 2 and they are more spendy then the next few weeks
will allow. Would you mind posting a picture of what the crimp is supposed
to look like please , are the 2 petals at top folded in ? Thank you , do
you use the strain reliefs as well?


On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 5:08 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> https://photos.app.goo.gl/vn1yeNbHFBsm9GSe7
>
> This is what you want.  Not cheap, but I got the crimp head and handle in
> separate ebay listings.  I use bags of the IDC connectors for hooking up
> step motors and sensors in my lab.  I use 0.1" long-tail headers to connect
> the MTA100 IDC connectors together.  Very handy for quick, temporary,
> reusable setups.
>
> -- Ralph
>
> On Aug 7, 2018 1:00 PM, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> .1 amp # 64044 iirc
>
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 2:37 PM Ralph Stirling  >
> wrote:
>
> > Is that an MTA100 or MTA156 (0.1" or 0.156" spacing)?
> >
> > -- Ralph
> >
> > On Aug 7, 2018 9:07 AM, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 8:27 AM andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > > On 7 August 2018 at 14:09, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> > >
> > > > <
> > >
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hg2HvU06fmmGAS2EAECjnzW6PwX72aI4/view?usp=drivesdk
> > > >
> > >
> > > Does not appear to be public.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> >
> >
> > I believe it's fixed , sorry
> >
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Scroll jaw G code?

[jeremy youngs]

> This brings up an argument against doing it aligned with an axis but s/b
> aligned at 45 degrees so there is never an axis direction reversal while
> the tool is within the material. Its been my experience, with the
> quality of machine and ball screws I can afford, that one can never get
> a completely invisible axis reversal although I do have bearings seated
> in such carvings, carved on a micro-mill after very carefully setting
> the XY axis's backlash.  Sure, lay it out and generate the code aligned
> with an axis just because its easier that way, but mount the jaw holding
> vise at nominally 45 degrees, measure its angle with a touch probe and
> sci calculator, and rotate the co-ord map to match. That will move any
> direction reversals to outside of the workpiece. Voila! Perfect curves
> w/o any backlash artifacts.
> >
> > But is you mill good enough to cut a spiral?   Getting the g-code is
> > the easy part.
> >
> > > If you draw the spiral in cad, then choose a section of maximum
> > > radius, and minimum radius that a jaw 'tooth' will traverse.
> > >
> > > Now superimpose those two profiles and lop off any excess, keeping
> > > only the intersecting area.
> > > Repeat for all jaw 'teeth'
> > > Then hand code the segment

Brilliant

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

.1 amp # 64044 iirc

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 2:37 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> Is that an MTA100 or MTA156 (0.1" or 0.156" spacing)?
>
> -- Ralph
>
> On Aug 7, 2018 9:07 AM, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 8:27 AM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On 7 August 2018 at 14:09, jeremy youngs  wrote:
> >
> > > <
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hg2HvU06fmmGAS2EAECjnzW6PwX72aI4/view?usp=drivesdk
> > >
> >
> > Does not appear to be public.
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
> I believe it's fixed , sorry
>
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> >
> >
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018, 8:27 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 7 August 2018 at 14:09, jeremy youngs  wrote:
>
> > <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hg2HvU06fmmGAS2EAECjnzW6PwX72aI4/view?usp=drivesdk
> >
>
> Does not appear to be public.
>
> --
>


I believe it's fixed , sorry

> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

  IMG_20180806_221958.jpg

Sorry I forgot to attach this.
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[Emc-users] Punch down

[jeremy youngs]

Recommendation for punch Down tool for these amphenol connectors? Or a
solder cup style??
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Re: [Emc-users] Slaved axis

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018, 7:32 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On 29 July 2018 at 01:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > With MachineKit or LinuxCNC, the JOG keys or MPG moves the carriage. Can
> the
> > cross slide be programmed track the taper?  Is there a way to 'link' the
> jog
> > buttons so that they track with a mathematical formula?
>
> Zero an indicator , then travel a known distance in z to figure taper,
> then g18 is your Friend.
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Re: [Emc-users] Locked rotor

[jeremy youngs]

>
> One standard is A+ B- C- so I would suggest trying that.
> Tried that, no dice.


I believe these floating leads have something to do with it.
The mclr8 wire if touched will completely stop all function. Sometimes it's
smooth others it's not . Brand New encoder, factory assembled cable.

Thoughts on using the 7i90 and halscope to look at the waveforms???

And thoughts on termination for these unused leads? The mclr8 won't
terminate to ground or it stops the whole works ( of course no waveform
analysis yet )
And the u,v,w + floating on air don't seem to be a solid idea either but
there are no positions to terminate them on the drive.
I'm thinking it could be this encoder, I will try tomorrow to get
waveforms.
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[Emc-users] Locked rotor

[jeremy youngs]

Also , cui says setting alignment will always align with u , so I presume
the logic is standard, a,b,c is to u,v,w so I'm presuming that the a should
be + and the b - for this alignment , it's a 4 pole motor so it has 2
mechanical lock points 180 degrees apart , should it matter which one of
these mechanical points it's aligned with?
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[Emc-users] Locked rotor for alignment

[jeremy youngs]

Kollmorgen eb 404
Does anyone know what phases to energize for locked rotor alignment of this
motor? I finally have my cui encoder and programming cables, I have aligned
with phase a + phase b- and set encoder. I can make it turn but it is rough
I don't think I have the right phase aligned. I have walked a,b,c wires to
no avail.
Also cui gives +u,v,w, as well as -u,v,w output , the amc b3040 drive only
has input for - and literature says it should be - so o have the + pins
floating I'm kinda amiff as to what to do with those. Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Gene, it was an inference I knew you would get, all those years working the
dairy farm in upstate, I only cook with the real thing.
Having lost my grandma,mom and my brother now type 2 I strive really hard
to keep lean and sugar low. I gave up sodas, heavy drinking, breads and
anything else with unnatural sugars in it. At 42, 6'1 and 175 I hope it
helps. I think my heart will wipe me out first, 1 open heart surgery
already logged. Heart is great it's the arteries and aortic aneurysm I fear
will cause the long , unexpected and hopefully painless sleep.

Chris , oddly enough I didn't even check digikey, I just let the eBay rip.
I'm getting consternated on this subject. I keep promising photos but in
keeping up with the shop traffic and the 86 Chevy restoration and funding
all of these neat things I haven't yet found the time. Alas the damage is
done. These capacitors are screw mount so if I get the time between backhoe
hose and 460 engine removal tomorrow I will post some pics . I am striving
for a top performing machine and things keep working out do that should
well happen.
TTYL thanks guys.
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 5:53 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 16 June 2018 14:48:27 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > Thank you Gene,
> > eBay item # 302357383187
> > These correct? If so I will get them coming.
>
> Thats 2 for 11 bucks, for that he ought to cover the postage.  But yes,
> thats the one I had in mind.
>

Ordered, thanks for your advice.

As to the other subject, generating a tach signal, I think in torque mode
and the 7i90 driving it I won't need to worry about it.

Now if I could find a user manual for these Western servo design bpu s2
32/30 drives I could cook with oleo

>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Thank you Gene,
eBay item # 302357383187
These correct? If so I will get them coming.

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 12:54 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 16 June 2018 13:00:08 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > A quick Google, digikey and eBay search turned up nothing for an if357
> > , or an irf 357 . Any other suggestions?
>
> Did I do a "typu"? Or is lower case confusing the issue. s/b an LF357. Or
> if you want the most stable, highly tested version, an LF157. Check the
> whole family, maybe a different member suits you better. Stabilization
> networks commonly used with those old slow op-amps can be removed as a
> general rule.
>
> > --
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>
>
> --
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> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

A quick Google, digikey and eBay search turned up nothing for an if357 , or
an irf 357 . Any other suggestions?
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 3:23 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 15 June 2018 23:53:03 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 7:58 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Friday 15 June 2018 20:20:20 jeremy youngs wrote:
> > >
> > > Aerotech mentions
> > > using 741's (op-amps) but the gain of a 741 above 10 hz falls like a
> > > rock, and that leaves the nyquist phase v stability angles in doubt.
> >
> > If the paper suggests using a 741, then the paper is very old.
>
> That amazed me too, Chris. I was reading about 1960 technology.
>
> That pdf is from aerotech's own site, anybody can download it and read
> it. Were I to design a similar device today, I'd certainly use lf357's
>

If I do this will I have to balance the op amp or is it a simple
replacement?

 And check any electrolytic caps for old age, replacing as
> necessary.
>
> Offtopic sorta:
>
>
>
> <
> https://www.banggood.com/Transistor-Tester-ESR-Capacitance-Meter-Resistance-Inductance-Measuring-p-1044840.html?rmmds=search
> >
>
> I have one of these and a variable supply for reforming caps, built a few
> months ago to resurrect my wife's organ .
>
> If Jeremy got those used, they are probably takeouts from a 30 yo or
> older machine.
>

1993, pulled from working environment, I agree the 741 is ancient , and
will likely replace them and will test these caps. The power supplies were
worth what I gave for the drives.

>
> If you can, the simplest way is to connect the digital
> > encoder to the mesa card, let it keep the position count then use that
> > any way you wish, possible to create the analog output you want
>

I'm hoping to allow the mess card to do this and set torque mode to use the
4020 as a simple amplifier. Thanks for the reassurance this is a good idea.

> >
> By using pdm/pwm in the pwmgens. At 50 kilohertz, then integrating that
> to get your analog voltage. But no not pass the raw signal thru an
> opto-isolator, the control linearity will be destroyed. There are no
> such critters in the 7i90/7i42TA control, but there will be in common
> BoB's used with the 5i25's and such parport simulators.
>
> > I would not build an analog, op amp based digital rate the analog
> > output converter even with modern op amps.  That is not the best
> > solution in 2018.  A digital counter is the way to do.  It is easy to
> > make and as exact as you want.   But I think the existing FPGA based
> > hardware should be able to count and you'd not need to actually build
> > anything.
>
> I hope to avoid building. I'm really busy in the auto shop so it will be a
> week or two before theory hits action.
>


Indeed.  Its all in the .hal code today, no "parts" involved. I think
> what I would do is hook into the power supply's, disconnecting the old
> active stuff and use them to feed power to one of the pico systems
> pwm-servo's per axis controlled.



This is a high probability, as mentioned the power supplies were worth the
cost of admission.


The control bandwidth is fast enough
> that with a low resolution encoder.
>
The cui encoder is selectable, o have it at 1000 ppr as that's what the
optical encoder that still works on the other ametek is at , that and 2.3:1
timing belt drive should give great resolution.  I have the work flow to
purchase x axis balkscrews in the near future as well. When I get a chance
I'm going to get some photos of the recent goodies that have showed up.

Thanks for bouncing ideas guys.
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Gmail is queing my messages for some reason. I apologize if this double
posts.

Always another hurdle . Lol. I abandoned the h bridge plan for now as I am
> lacking sufficient power supply. I have 2 aerotech 4020 linear drives . The
> issue is they need tachometer feedback and it appears though the drive
> isn't configured for armature feedback. So the question is, is there a
> readily available device to convert 1000 ppr to an analog signal @7v /1000
> rpm ?
>
> The drive is configurable to torque mode, would it be easier to set drive
> in torque mode and tune servo in Linux CNC with 7i90 ?
> Thanks
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Always another hurdle . Lol. I abandoned the h bridge plan for now as I am
lacking sufficient power supply. I have 2 aerotech 4020 linear drives . The
issue is they need tachometer feedback and it appears though the drive
isn't configured for armature feedback. So the question is, is there a
readily available device to convert 1000 ppr to an analog signal @7v /1000
rpm ?

The drive is configurable to torque mode, would it be easier to set drive
in torque mode and tune servo in Linux CNC with 7i90 ?
Thanks
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[Emc-users] Sorry

[jeremy youngs]

I don't know how I trampled your thread so badly Andy .
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Re: [Emc-users] Wester servo design

[jeremy youngs]

  IMG_20180614_130755.jpg
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oqBy-2wB3Dh9RAa1qk8lwf5HGpE-Da0o/view?usp=drivesdk>

  IMG_20180614_130806.jpg
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GbJp6HSsJUdwPsuHHz0-4P_liPgHWCgl/view?usp=drivesdk>

  IMG_20180614_130819.jpg
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UT-kicCNBAW25_L0MaGGLgyICqJZYCA-/view?usp=drivesdk>

  wsd1.jpg
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j6LKdzeGGJz6mK-UYNoOcWFqu45r2-99/view?usp=drivesdk>
Sorry these are the drives and connectors in question

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 1:15 PM jeremy youngs  wrote:

> Good day fellas.
> I received these Western servo design power supply and brush less
> amplifiers. I have hounded the manufacturer to no avail for user manual.
> There is a short 2 page spec sheet for each device available at wsdi.com
> I need to know how to identify these connectors, so I can Interface with
> them. Also user manual would be great . My Google fu is failing me and I'm
> curious if anyone here may have manuals they may be willing to scan for me.
> I got this six hp kollmorgen motor and I'm chomping at the bit to see it
> spin. Any help greatly appreciated.
>
>
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[Emc-users] Fwd: Wester servo design

[jeremy youngs]

-- Forwarded message -
From: jeremy youngs 
Date: Thu, Jun 14, 2018, 1:15 PM
Subject: Wester servo design
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 


Good day fellas.
I received these Western servo design power supply and brush less
amplifiers. I have hounded the manufacturer to no avail for user manual.
There is a short 2 page spec sheet for each device available at wsdi.com
I need to know how to identify these connectors, so I can Interface with
them. Also user manual would be great . My Google fu is failing me and I'm
curious if anyone here may have manuals they may be willing to scan for me.
I got this six hp kollmorgen motor and I'm chomping at the bit to see it
spin. Any help greatly appreciated.
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[Emc-users] Wester servo design

[jeremy youngs]

Good day fellas.
I received these Western servo design power supply and brush less
amplifiers. I have hounded the manufacturer to no avail for user manual.
There is a short 2 page spec sheet for each device available at wsdi.com
I need to know how to identify these connectors, so I can Interface with
them. Also user manual would be great . My Google fu is failing me and I'm
curious if anyone here may have manuals they may be willing to scan for me.
I got this six hp kollmorgen motor and I'm chomping at the bit to see it
spin. Any help greatly appreciated.
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

>
> No Index??? Seems like it would be handy.


It appears to have an index slot in the glass plate , but not enough wires
樂樂樂


OTOH, for XYZ, not a hard and
> fast requirement as long as the home switches are good.


I have 5 of those inductive pickups we were talking about a few months
back, I think Greg or Chris brought them to our attention , so we will find
out.

But you'll need
> it on the spindle. In fact, the index is the only thing that must be
> tied to the spindle if you ever want to do rigid tapping.
> I'm gonna put one of thousands cui encoders on it, I left this renco on
> the ametek as I'm just plain lazy and figured with the home switches it
> wasn't absolutely essential to have index.
>
Also without this new motor in hand I have no idea how it is equipped ,
hopefully it already has a nice encoder on it 

>
> The rest of the encoder (a/b signals) can be on the motor, and you can
> calibrate the scale for the spindle with some hal stuff you can comment
> back out of the hal file once the scale has been determined. Thats how I
> did mine anyway. Works a treat.
>

I'm sure I will have questions for this.

>
> > Finally, something that didn't fight me tooth and nail.
>
> > Now I have to put an encoder on the z motor and wait for brown to drop
> > this 6hp spindle motor off and see what I need for that, I have 2
> > drives coming for that and a bid on a power supply for the drives so
> > life is well at this time.
>
> Sounds good. How much weight do have to man handle on the Z?
>
This motor ships at 50 lbs it's a knee mill , however it only has freedom
of movement along the x axis , I hope to turn this later with a harmonic
drive

>
> > Ttyl take care fellas
>
> We try. I've got the tap hat g-code working well, but ran out of M6 grub
> screws, so I just ordered another 100 M6's and 100 M8's for the biggest
> taps, which should run me out of brass before I run out of taps to
> mount. So sometime after the screws get here, I should order another 6
> feet of 7/8" brass rod.  And a decent set of letter drills, these are
> only slightly better than cold butter. Even running each one thru one of
> the original drill doctors isn't enough to drill clean in one pass. In
> brass.
>
> Good to hear you're making progress as well.
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Update, I pulled this other ametek motor apart. And it had a glass disc
encoder, only 4 wires and clearly labeled a,b,5, gnd , so no blown opto
when I hooked it up. The glass disc said 1000 on it so I'm presuming it's a
1000 PPR encoder, I will check part numbers tomorrow . Hooked it to 7i90
and it just works.
Finally, something that didn't fight me tooth and nail.
Now I have to put an encoder on the z motor and wait for brown to drop this
6hp spindle motor off and see what I need for that, I have 2 drives coming
for that and a bid on a power supply for the drives so life is well at this
time.
Ttyl take care fellas
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Re: [Emc-users] problem with tap tip profiles

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 13:46 andy pugh  wrote:

> On 1 June 2018 at 19:20, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > IOW, how do you folks deal with this?
>
> Why not do two holes in one operation? They are opposite each other,
> aren't they?
>
> I didn't catch this, I agree do em straight through in one shot .
>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] problem with tap tip profiles

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 13:20 Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings everybody;
>
> I have the grub screw bore & tap working except for on glareing problem.
> I am using g38.2 to measure both the length of the drill, and the tap,
> and I had set the depth of the tap so it went a little into the opposing
> hole on the other side of the hat, and still left some taper at the end
> of the threads I could feel the grub screws cutting into for the last
> half turn to tight on the taps square butt.
>
> But I just chose to use a 5 or 6mm tap with a square end, for blind holes
> I assume. It working from the g38.2 measured length, went on thru to the
> other hole and totalled the threads at the bottom of the opposing hole.
> Diagnosing that I needed to stop it at least 2.5mm quicker, I put the
> 6mmx1 tap in the machine, also a square ended tap, and found the threads
> were usable but had to get froggy with the wrench torque to get past the
> tight spot at the bottom of the hole. This after I had reduced the g33.1
> Z by 2.25mm.
>
> So, since I'm measuring the mounted tap at its tip, is there any quick
> way to make my code compensate for the taps tip profile?
>
> Or do I add another var next to the tpmm to be added to the stroke,
> possibly by calipering the tap tip from the tip to the first active
> thread?
>
> IOW, how do you folks deal with this?
>
> Thanks for any thoughts.
>

I drill my pilot hole 80% of the minor diameter deeper , unless the print
doesn't allow for it, I then add the measured length of the tip of the tap
to my tool length and make a few test holes, adjusting tool length offset
in the table until I get the desired results.

>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 19:39 Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Thursday 31 May 2018 19:45:24 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > Encoders in hand, shaft turned and mounted, it looks good, 3 more to
> > do . encoderawcount.jpg
> > <https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oHklBMnxpmTGl-ZzVBCtBkDbsFxwydN_/vie
> >w?usp=drivesdk>
>
> That does look pretty good at first glance. I can't read the clocking
> rate though. Humm, I just found the viewer has a zoom. So I assume you
> were turning it by hand as the timing shows 2/1 variations on a 10
>

Back emf , as measured in lathe at 800 rpm was 21.6 volts. It's a 20 volt
motor , I intend on driving at 28 volts with generic hbridge. I'm not sure
that 28 will give the 300 ipm rapid I'm after, but time will tell. I was
powering this with a 700 ma 5 volt supply so motor speed was pretty slow, I
did not put my tach on it , encoders are set to 1000 PPR as that's what I
already have the 7i 90 programmed to. 20/56 is the timing pulley ratio so
that will be over 2k per rev. I hope to ballscrew the x in the next month
or so , y and z are already ballscrew although I think I am going to
replace the y screw ( again) as it's a surplus screw and I don't like it's
mount and have been fairly impressed with the Chinese screw I put in z.




millisecond per grid line, so thats pretty slow. What it looks like at 3
> to 5k revs will tell the story.

I'm pretty sure 2k will be the absolute max with my setup.


But you are not going to get that
> display at 3 to 5k in halscope. That will need a good scope,
>
> On the list, but concrete and shop expansion are essential at this time .
> I wrench to support my Machine habit 
>
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
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>
>
> --
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> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

A,b and index. I'm beat for the day , I will follow up tomorrow, been
really busy in shop, beginning an ls swap and restoration of an 83 3/4 ton
Chevy for a customer. That will limit my ability to get this done , but
will provide much needed funds.

Also, I won the bid on that 6 horse bldc 37 NM motor, I will have questions
> about that when the brown dude drops it off.
>

Also I had the horizontal zoom up Fairly high, don't know if that makes a
difference. Can you post a pic of a good waveform please ?

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Encoders in hand, shaft turned and mounted, it looks good, 3 more to do .
  encoderawcount.jpg

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Re: [Emc-users] New SoC

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:55 andy pugh  wrote:

> Possibly Useful for LinuxCNC, but equally possibly too expensive.
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/udoo/udoo-bolt-raising-the-maker-world-to-the-next-leve?ref=20ae5a
>
> I bought one of the original UDOO boards but never got round to doing
> much more than building a Xenomai (I think) kernel.
>
> I think lost interest when I found a USB bridge between the Arduno IO
> and the Linux OS. But it was a while ago and I am fuzzy on the
> details.
>
> --
> If something like this were available with a user configurable fpga on top
> of it , and a just works distro it would be well worth $400. It seems
> limited on io but impressively powerful and very low power consumption.
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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi

[jeremy youngs]

So Gene, essentially an HDMI monitor is the sure bet. I think I will find
one of them
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[Emc-users] Rpi

[jeremy youngs]

I'm about to purchase the rpi 3 b to convert my other mill. I'm going to
use the steppers I took off this matson . Probably 7i90 as well. I have a
couple VGA monitor so I figured I'd get a HDMI to VGA cable . Is there any
reason not to get this?
eBay item number 323251929837
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 06:47 andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 May 2018 at 13:47, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I have no idea what it is, I may just find out today .
>
> It definitely looks like an Optek logo, part number and date code
>
> https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reflective-optical-sensors/6424301/
>
>
> These are the numbers I have , and we're my Google search , I also
> searched  8950 and just the first 4 , I got no hits.
>
optek opb568995969992

After looking at your link and I too agree it looks like optek . If I can
find this I will just replace it , I still have use for the other encoders
though .

>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 08:04 Bengt Sjölund  wrote:

> I have used ITR8307 succesfully.
> http://www.93x57r.se/tecno-cnc/images/CNC3000/opto%20sp-speed%202.jpg
> http://www.everlight.com/file/ProductFile/ITR8307.pdf
>
>
> You are suggesting replacing the opto'd with this ? That would be a whole
> lot less of a pain and less expensive, how to align and mount it ? Epoxy?
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 00:33 Ralph Stirling <ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu>
wrote:

> I like to use Machine -> "Show Hal Configuration", which lets you see
> and set any pin, and watch pins or signals.  More convenient
> than halmeters in my opinion.  Halscope has a bit of a learning
> curve.
>
This was excellent advice thank you

>
> -- Ralph
> ________
> From: jeremy youngs [jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 8:48 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc
>
> Halmeter has blanked fields and inoperable buttons, so I cannot select
> pins.
> Halscope shows no active threads. So I cannot continue as the Hal tutorial
> shows.
>   nothread.jpg
> <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XgtzQuH2P6SGm6Y0BNHVGNNi9EBKvXLi/view?usp=drivesdk
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Motors

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 15:20 andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26 May 2018 at 20:49, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I want to use one clutch and two sprags for a compact envelope 
>
> That ought to work and might be easier to package.
>
> I overhaul transmissions and have many sprags, and housings available, if
> I could figure out how to preload a planetary gear ( I'm thinking oversized
> peek pinions )

I could get great reduction and simplicity of design and less pins to
control and less moving parts, but all of my real talents won't show
through until I master this software and hardware . Then maybe I can get
too learn how to code and actually help this forum, alas I need to pay the
bills before I get that far , but I'm working on it and have great
teachers.
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Motors

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 13:32 andy pugh  wrote:

> On 26 May 2018 at 19:20, Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> > I don't know what machine you have, but some machines have stock retrofit
> > kits to replace the crummy Chinese drive scheme with something using high
> > performance belts.
>
> It isn't too hard to imagine a system using two permanently-engaged
> different-ratio belt-drives and a couple of car air-conditioning
> clutches to choose between them.
>
> I want to use one clutch and two sprags for a compact envelope 
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 10:54 Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> I had to look up the link to see how it is possible for an encoder to
> cause lag.   Only by not having enough resolution for low speed
> operations
>
> Did you notice the 20 week lead time and the note about problems at the
> factory?
>

I didn't see factory problems, but digikey has hundreds in stock, and they
are already in the box headed this way, we will see next week rather I am
smiling or crying lol

>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Sat, May 26, 2018, 06:41 andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 May 2018 at 07:24, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d
> > Any thoughts? Seems like a good solution
>
> I was expecting Jon Elson to chip in. I think he found an odd
> accelleration lag with these encoders:
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/emc/mailman/emc-developers/thread/4DFC13BB.4020109%40pico-systems.com/#msg27669457
>
>
> Maybe I should have been more patient, but they are on their way , and I'm
> soon to find out.
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

These will be here late next week
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 15:31 John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote:

>
> So would I suggest it as a usable drive?  Yes.  Is it possible to get one
> with that output current?  Not sure the driver chip was discontinued and I
> know they are working on a Rev 2 but I don't know when that will happen.
>
> John
>
>
> Thank you for the assessment john
>
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: jeremy youngs [mailto:jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-25-18 11:05 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.
> >
> > On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:16 John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  I'm also fortunate enough to
> > > have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL
> drive..
> > >
> >
> > How do you like the stmbl? And what was your build cost ? If I get this
> six
> > horse bldc for my spindle I need 37 amps peak at 230 , I understand
> that's
> > feasible with this drive , my level of electronics skill I am certain
> will
> > be taxed at best .
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 07:01 Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:

> On Friday 25 May 2018 02:24:57 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
> > These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
> > programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them
> > I can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial
> > mount . I will call them tomorrow .
> >
> > https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%
> >252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d Any thoughts? Seems like a
> > good solution , for a stocking part a fella could even keep a couple
> > to gather dust .
>
> Thats about the same price as the Omron, and it uses the motors bearings
> and fits the tailshaft, so it mounts much more compactly than the Omron.
> But the Omron has its own bearings making it totally selfcontained. But
> in close proximity to the motors magnetic field, the index may not work.
> And they are out of stock till the 2nd week of June, more delay than
> ebay/omron, by a week maybe.
>
> Digikey has them in stock, I gave the wrong link , I'm going to pull the
> trigger on this as it's easier to modify my shaft if necessary than it is
> to adapt the omron, I will give report when I get them.
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Re: [Emc-users] rotary tables, was Home switches.

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:16 John Dammeyer  wrote:

>  I'm also fortunate enough to
> have a Harmonic Drive like the one Andy has along with the STMBL drive..
>

How do you like the stmbl? And what was your build cost ? If I get this six
horse bldc for my spindle I need 37 amps peak at 230 , I understand that's
feasible with this drive , my level of electronics skill I am certain will
be taxed at best .

>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Fri, May 25, 2018, 03:24 andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 25 May 2018 at 03:08, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >   8950.jpg
> > <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1S6QMRvlKNLQNbT9GYOcLkHmogDqKEr/view?usp=drivesdk
> >
> > This is what I got.
>
> I see an OPB number there too, and OPB seems to be a family of optos.
> (though I can't find that one)
>
> Is that just an index detector? Not enough wires to be an ABZ encoder,
> looks more like a generic reflective sensor.
>
> I have no idea what it is, I may just find out today .


> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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[Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

New thread, as I seem to be done getting the 7i90 functional.
These are capacitive and seem to have good response, universal and
programmable. And cheap and u.s. stock, 15.3 mm is the largest of them I
can find, and I don't understand what they say about axial or radial mount
. I will call them tomorrow .

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CUI/AMT103-V?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsWp46O%252bq11Wc6D0rLp%252bQH%2fN7GEqDkL%2fc8%3d
Any thoughts? Seems like a good solution , for a stocking part a fella
could even keep a couple to gather dust .
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 23:45 Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:

> On Thursday 24 May 2018 21:58:31 jeremy youngs wrote:
>
> > Sorry, autocorrect,
> >
> > Heds 8950 encoder
>
> Its not an Omron then? I have used one before, in a project for the tv
> station, never gave a hint of trouble. But I know nothing about a HED
> 8950. I'll see if I can find something about it on the web.
>
> Looks like it may be an obsoleted model. Or, less of a chance, too new
> for their catalog. It is not listed on the makers site. So my best idea
> is to get an Omron from Ebay.  A dollar or so more than a $20 bill,
> maybe $25 with shipping from someplace in the USA.
>


Obsolete for sure, these are ametek tape drive motors , had a friend in
Syracuse that had a 4 square foot electronics recycling center I got
these from . Probably twenty to thirty years old. I'm searching for a 5/8
hole replacement now, I found some cui at mouser but we have had weather
and my internet here in the Ozarks is almost non existent.

>
> > > The 7i42TA's are that.  Limiting the current to a value below the
> > > failure of the gates in the fpga on the 7i90HD.  IF you are feeding
> > > them 5 volts.
> > >
> > > What diode are you referring to?
> >
> > The led that drives the optical encoder. It does not pass a diode
> > check and
> >
> > > I am no longer able to see voltage changes on the a and b encoder
> > > wires. So I figure I over currented the led .
> >
> Thats what warranties are for. If you only fed it 5 volts on the red
> wire, and it has now failed, its duff, send it back.
>
I'm sure there is no warranty on these freebies.

>
> OTOH, if its NOS and died, its a good chance the next one will be the
> same age and well up the far end of the famous bathtub curve.  I'd vote
> with my card, and get the Omron.
>
> Mounting is my biggest issue with this, and if I do I may as well get six
> as that's eventually what will be needed. The good news is my shop is about
> to be overloaded with Broken cars and we'll off customers, the bad , once
> it starts next week I won't look up for a month, then some concrete to pour
> and machine parts to buy, yep time and money, the two are mutually
> exclusive to the working stiff.
>
> Oh, and if somebody is taking up a collection to round up this Murphy
> guy...  It sucks just when progress was being made.
>
Was able to verify pwm output with my radio shack multi meter with
frequency counter, so while Murphy has stopped one thing , now it is to
build an isolation supply and put these 28 volt 28 amp DC DC converters
together and make the generic h bridge run these motors, and outfit all of
the control works to an atx case I have laying around and gut the nema case
that formerly housed stepper drives and control system.

How long is tool long for this 50 pin cables? I understand the shortest the
better but 2 foot would be great or would it be better to extend the db25
cable? Probably that one as it's only one cable.

>
> Take care, Jeremy.
>

Always, and you too Gene.

>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 23:33 Ralph Stirling <ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu>
wrote:

> Electronics component date codes are always two digit year
> followed by two digit week.
>

Learn something every day

>
> I did not do anything intentional about trimming my reply,
> just top posted.  My mail reader (outlook web access) doesn't
> do the ">" quoting.
>
Ok, at least I know 藍藍

>
> Hope you can find a replacement for the whole encoder, because
> that module doesn't look like the standard HP/Avago type.
>

Me too 
>


-- Ralph
>
> 
> From: jeremy youngs [jcyoung...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 9:01 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2018, 22:32 Ralph Stirling <ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > I suspect that module was manufactured in the 50th week of 1989, as 8950
> > looks like a date code.  I don't see a normal part number, unless it is
> the
> > OPB number.
> >
>
> I would suspect a Julian date code of day of the year i.e 264 then a year
> specifier , i.e. 2649 being the 264 day in the 9 the year of decade , that
> is how most things I have ever experienced lot and batch coding worked,
> regardless I'm having no luck finding anyone that stocks it or the avago
> that Jon spoke of. And do appreciate your in put Ralph.
>
> What I really want to know is how you trimmed this 100 page post. I have
> left it long as it's been a thread that went all the way to a 7i90 working
> so I haven't broken it up( well and obviously I don't know how to break it
> up ). It maybe time to do that though as I'm very happy to say it all
> just works  and now it's about hardware issues.
>
> >
> > -- Ralph
> >
> > On May 24, 2018 7:09 PM, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > HEDS 8950?
> > >
> > > That seems to be an alignment tool, not an encoder...
> > >
> > > The optical encoder says 8950 I found a datasheet that said obsolete in
> > > Nov 2011
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >   8950.jpg
> > <
> >
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1S6QMRvlKNLQNbT9GYOcLkHmogDqKEr/view?usp=drivesdk
> > >
> > This is what I got.
> > Also wanted to say thank you all for the help
> >
> >
> --
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> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Home switches.

[jeremy youngs]

Home switches should go to the positive side , z up, y towards you and x on
the right.
Most 4 axis I have used were mounted on the negative end ( left ) ( mazak)
but the carousel was not in the path of the 4th axis, the fadals ( which
homed to the center of the table , as well as the daewoo) were mounted to
the right because the carousel would have been an interfering factor, mine
will mount to the right because it will be a threaded lathe spindle ( in
stock ) and I don't want it throwing chips at me or unscrewing, but I have
other hurdles to jump before adding more joints to this machine 

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 22:05 John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Quick mini survey.  If you have a knee mill, where have you mounted your
> home switches?
> I understand it doesn't matter because the machine coordinate system is
> only
> used to establish a fixed reference.  For the rest of the time we use
> various world coordinate systems with the G54...
>
> So the switches:
> For the Y axis so the bed moves towards you or away?
> For the X axis so the bed moves to the left or to the right?
> The Z axis obvious because we always want it to move away from the tool tip
> to avoid a crash.
>
> For example, if you periodically put your 4th Axis on the left hand side of
> the bed it's probably better to have the system home so the table moves to
> the left. In effect this makes the tool move to the right Just in case you
> ask it to home but forgot that you had the 4th axis bolted down.
>
> And that brings up the third question about a 4th axis.  If you have one,
> do
> you tend to put it on the left just like a lathe spindle or on the right?
> Any reason for the preference?  Often there are tool changers on the left
> so
> it makes more sense to have the 4th on the right.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 22:32 Ralph Stirling <ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu>
wrote:

> I suspect that module was manufactured in the 50th week of 1989, as 8950
> looks like a date code.  I don't see a normal part number, unless it is the
> OPB number.
>

I would suspect a Julian date code of day of the year i.e 264 then a year
specifier , i.e. 2649 being the 264 day in the 9 the year of decade , that
is how most things I have ever experienced lot and batch coding worked,
regardless I'm having no luck finding anyone that stocks it or the avago
that Jon spoke of. And do appreciate your in put Ralph.

What I really want to know is how you trimmed this 100 page post. I have
left it long as it's been a thread that went all the way to a 7i90 working
so I haven't broken it up( well and obviously I don't know how to break it
up ). It maybe time to do that though as I'm very happy to say it all
just works  and now it's about hardware issues.

>
> -- Ralph
>
> On May 24, 2018 7:09 PM, jeremy youngs <jcyoung...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > HEDS 8950?
> >
> > That seems to be an alignment tool, not an encoder...
> >
> > The optical encoder says 8950 I found a datasheet that said obsolete in
> > Nov 2011
> >
> >
> >
> >
>   8950.jpg
> <
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l1S6QMRvlKNLQNbT9GYOcLkHmogDqKEr/view?usp=drivesdk
> >
> This is what I got.
> Also wanted to say thank you all for the help
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

>
>
>
> HEDS 8950?
>
> That seems to be an alignment tool, not an encoder...
>
> The optical encoder says 8950 I found a datasheet that said obsolete in
> Nov 2011
>
>
>
>
  8950.jpg

This is what I got.
Also wanted to say thank you all for the help
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

Sorry, autocorrect,
>
Heds 8950 encoder


> The 7i42TA's are that.  Limiting the current to a value below the failure
> of the gates in the fpga on the 7i90HD.  IF you are feeding them 5
> volts.
>
> What diode are you referring to?
>

The led that drives the optical encoder. It does not pass a diode check and
> I am no longer able to see voltage changes on the a and b encoder wires. So
> I figure I over currented the led .
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

Ok, I got this all loaded , got some help from Peter and am able to drop
these pins to ground and watch encoder raw count show pin activity. So ,
great everything works, very Happy. The bad  I think I reverse biased
this led and popped it. I have another encoder and motor to try to read
counts on. The real question, this is a heads 8950 and it shows eol as Nov
2011 and I cannot locate a source for a replacement. Which would be great
as the omron encoders are in China and will require fabrication to install.
Any recommendations?

Also I figured a 5 volt 700 ma regulated supply wouldn't have popped the
diode should this have current limit resistors in line?
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Thu, May 24, 2018, 01:36 Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
>
> Sounds like no threads running.
>
> Does a "halrun" execute,(see the doc pdf, about page 585) and give you
> a "halcmd" prompt? Or alternatively, does linuxcnc actually run?

Yes,yes

The

>
> first time it will ask you for a configuration, which you should pass
> its new config, you've created
> in /home/$usr/linuxcnc/configs/$new-name.ini
>
So the path to my ini file $usr changed for user name and $new name = servo
matson

>
> After that run, you can select that config automatically with linuxcnc -l
>


So if I start, then shutdown linuxcnc the -i will load the 7i90 file and I
> won't have to punch all of the configuration string ( that I'm admittedly
> not sure of correct syntax and path for ) and it should load and halscop
> should then allow me to choose threads and pins.
>

I will attempt this in the afternoon.

where the -l stands for same as Last time. There may be config *.ini or
> *.hal errors that cause an immediate exit, expected at this stage.
>
We have debugged all of this and it works.

>
> dmesg will show any logged errors. To simplify its display, run as root
> 'dmesg -c' to clear its history, the rerun linuxcnc, then just dmesg to
> get only the errors of this run attempt.  Paste those back to us.



Back at shop with no internet , this will be a bit difficult


>
>
> the first thing to do is figure out why not
>
Agreed

>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

Halmeter has blanked fields and inoperable buttons, so I cannot select pins.
Halscope shows no active threads. So I cannot continue as the Hal tutorial
shows.
  nothread.jpg

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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

Pin 1 and 3 are my a and b from the 7i42.
I have verified encoder is operational and 4.56 volts at pins 1&2 on 7i42
so all seems good there. I'm pretty sure this is a syntax problem . Input ?
  hal.jpg

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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, May 22, 2018, 20:53 Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> Ouch, unless its a timing belt, otherwise there will be slippage, making
> the scale more of a SWAG than accurate.

Yes, 1 inch wide xl 037


That, and the fact that I wasn't aware the encoders

> output was differential, meant I had to use some under a buck a copy,
> rs485 gismo's setup as receivers only to convert the differential to TTL
> for the 5i25 inputs. But to get to the 5i25, I had to rip out the opto's
> in the BoB's input for the A/B inputs.
>


My encoders are completely unknown to me, and I cannot find much
> information on them.
>

I have 2 Bob's that are just vias directly to db 25. I may have to make a
50 pin adapter for them .
I don't know yet if I will have to buffer the signal, how did you know you
needed to ?

>
>
>
> > is there any reason I should choose a higher count?
>  Way more than that is well tolerated now.  If you are 1/1, then I
> wouldn't consider an encoder under 1000 lines, your PID tuning will be
> much much easier.
>
>
>
> 1/2" 13 tpi, is a tall order. How much torque is available?

620 oz inches , 3.2 kw at this time.
I have my eye on a bldc at 37.5 n/m at 5kw if I can scratch up the funds.
Rigid tapping isn't an immediate issue but would be nice.

>
>
> Gripping the tap in a collet, R8 or a TTS ER-20 without the positive
> coupling, tightly enough to prevent slippage.
>


I have a bt30 spindle in the works.

I hope soon to have this thing reassembled, it's been a couple months since
it made chips. Thank you for your advice.
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

On Tue, May 22, 2018, 18:05 andy pugh  wrote:

>
> halrun
>
> loadrt hostmot2
> loadrt hm2_7i90 ... and the rest of the line ...
>
> loadrt threads
> addf hm2_7i90.read thread1
> addf hm2_7i90.write thread1
> start
>
> setp hm2_7i90.0.pwmgen.00.value 1 (use tab completion, I am guessing
> the pin names)
>
Pretty sure I can follow that, and match the pins to my printed off
configuration

>
> > I also need to determine encoder count
>
> loadusr halmeter pin hm2_7i90.0.encoder.00.rawcounts
>
> Then twirl the shaft and look at the counts.
>
> Thank you very much , I hope to get this far along in the next day or two.
>
Once the counts are known my next question will be how to edit the Hal file
to match what I have. I will refer to the dead tree copy of Hal tutorial
and try to work through it first though.

I have to purchase an encoder for my spindle motor, I'm thinking a 256
count should suffice , spindle is 1:1 belt driven , is there any reason I
should choose a higher count? I would like to rigid tap eventually , mostly
to put 1/2 13 thread into my subplate as I really don't want to do 400 of
them by hand. High performance is not necessary here but accuracy is.
Thank you
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

7i42 in hand, 7i90 configuration built. Linuxcnc starts, and no real time
error , that's awesome.
50 pin cables and connectors assembled. All hooked up, all power on.

Mesaflash readhm2id gives all pins and their assignment. So I presume that
is all as it should be.
I printed a copy if this report for hookup purposes.

When I start lcnc and move it I get a following error ( obviously this is
because nothing is hooked up) .
But as I cannot use pncconfig to test this setup ( because pnc 5i20 doesn't
match the 7i90 and 5i20 is what I lied and said it was )
The question is how do I go about bench testing this system? I would like
to verify pwm outputs before I connect hardware .
I also need to determine encoder count , which I figured I would hookup
encoders and use Hal scope then put my 18 inch degree wheel on the motor ,
put a marker on it and spin one turn , this should get me fairly close .
All input welcome and thank you for your help.
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[Emc-users] eBay

[jeremy youngs]

Gene, I was perusing eBay and found this, thought of you.
323251704661
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[Emc-users] Encoders

[jeremy youngs]

Hi all. These ametek motors have undefined encoders on them. One is just an
empty 4 pin. The other has a flat 4 pin ribbon. I'm awaiting my 7i42 . The
flat ribbon is marked with a hot lead. I also have a 5v current limited
supply on order. I'm thinking set voltage low and shuffle ground until I
find the 2 pins that provide an output to my frequency meter , then I will
know which ones are my a and b . Once I get the 7i42 I will then be able to
use Hal to find their count me any words of advice or am I solid on this .
Thanks
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Re: [Emc-users] Newall DRO integration

[jeremy youngs]

I have no experience, I do have a next victim for conversion, a 10*50 comet
knee mill. It has Sony scales on it , I will attempt to read them with this
message card once I get there, if they prove good I'm going to try a pair
of these , eBay item number
322393653446
The beauty of it is it closes the loop and tracks the table, without
backlash . Pretty slick I think.
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

1 7i42 ordered, will get 2 more soon, Hal tutorial in dead tree, I will
work on the i.d of these renco encoders and connect them next week when
7i42 gets here.
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

>From the forum
PCW replied the topic: 7i90 questions
A couple things
Do you really have two loadrt hm2_7i90 lines in your hal file? that wont
work

also you cannot specify firmware for a 7I90 (or most newer mesa cards)
since the configuration is
preloaded in flash memory

loadrt hostmot2
loadrt hm2_7i90

should just work (at 0x378 since thats the default PP address))
So do I or don't I have to flash this card ? I'm about as confused as it
gets .
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i90 not listed in pnc

[jeremy youngs]

Manual in hand, trying this, and I'm here.

  svts.jpg


How do I get access to this extracted bitfile?
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