[Emc-users] New LinuxCNC machine

[ken.strauss]

All Tormach machines use a customized version of LinuxCNC called PathPilot. You 
might be interested in their latest machine with linear rails, EtherCat servos, 
etc: https://youtu.be/s2PfIHf9lOk

Around the 3:15 mark they discuss some of their additions to LCNC including 
probing, enhanced trajectory planner and tool table additions..





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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

[ken.strauss]

The Tormach touch screen interface looks pretty and works reasonably well. Many 
have converted their stuff to run on non-Tormach hardware.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2023 1:59 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: [Emc-users] Touch screen interface.

I've accumulated this set of parts for a simple LinuxCNC system and have been 
developing my power drawbar etc. control via CAN bus using the CANUSB.  I did a 
quick spreadsheet to figure out costs including the new touch screen.

Qty Description 
 US$ Cdn$ $Cdn Total
-
1 Raspberry Pi4, Heatsink and AC adaptor
  139   139
1 MESA 7I92TH   
109 150   150
2 MACH3 CNC Interface Board 
8 16
1 unFounder 10.1" HDMI 1280x800 LCD Touchscreen for Pi4  170   170
1 Logitech MK270 keyboard 
   4040

 -
SubTotal
  515
1 CANUSB
 110 154   154

=
Total   
  669

For the touch screen AXIS isn't really the best UI.  I'm looking for 
suggestions for a better one and how to incorporate it.  Especially since I 
have some code written to create the panel for the mister PWM and two 
indicators for the draw bar position along with the serial port control of the 
CANUSB.

Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Milling Strategies?

[ken.strauss]

What is the value of a possibly damaged 20mm carbide endmill versus the value 
of a 2.5 inch diameter 1.75 inch long plug of aluminum?

-Original Message-
From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users  
Sent: February 28, 2023 8:51 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Robin Szemeti 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Milling Strategies?

A 20mm cutter will be fine, with a 16mm to remove the final bit of skin and be 
safely away from the plug, leaving some tabs.

On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 at 01:36,  wrote:

> A few comments/questions:
> Is this a one-off job? If so your time is more valuable than the 
> possible recovery of a usable scrap of aluminum. Besides, do you have 
> a use for a
> 1.75x3 chunk of aluminum?
>
> The stock is 1.75 thick. That means an endmill with a stickout of 2 
> inches or more. A small endmill cannot be used. Chip evacuation will 
> be an issue if slotting. Having a jam damages a large endmill is 
> expensive! I definitely would not trust masking tape + super glue to 
> secure against the cutting forces.
>
> Everything considered, turning the plug into chips seems the best 
> approach from here.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Greg Bernard 
> Sent: February 28, 2023 6:57 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Milling Strategies?
>
> It seems like a slotting tool path would be the way to go. Tabs to 
> hold the center in place has been suggested but it could be 
> accomplished also with the masking tape and super glue method:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-coDYZCmEw
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 4:26 PM Robin Szemeti via Emc-users < 
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> > I'd mill it down do within 1 or 2 mm of the bottom of the material 
> > and then swap to a smaller cutter to remove just the outer of the 
> > thinner material and leave 3 supporting tabs.  Remove the centre 
> > piece by hand and then do a single full depth cleanup pass.
> >
> > I do this a lot when routing sheet MDF
> >
> > On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 at 21:46, Matthew Herd  wrote:
> >
> > > You could use a slotting strategy and tabs (at the bottom) to 
> > > retain the piece if you wanted to save the material.  Then cut the 
> > > tabs out
> by hand.
> > > Optionally do another finish pass after manual removal if the wall
> > surface
> > > matters.  But I’d probably just use an adaptive strategy to turn 
> > > it into chips.  Easier and probably faster.  As long as you can 
> > > clear the chips without standing there with an air gun or vacuum.
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Feb 28, 2023, at 3:53 PM, Todd Zuercher 
> > > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I need to mill about a 3.75" hole through a piece of aluminum 
> > > > about
> > > 1.75" thick.  What is the best strategy to accomplish this on a 
> > > cnc
> mill.
> > > Is it best to us a pocketing strategy and mill out the entire hole 
> > > from
> > the
> > > center out, or would it be better to use some kind of cutting 
> > > strategy
> > and
> > > mill some size slug out of the middle?  I can see the first option 
> > > being simpler, but the 2nd option saves a potentially useful piece 
> > > of material, but with the added complication of how to hold and 
> > > prevent the chunk of scrap from wreaking havoc when cut free.
> > > >
> > > > Todd Zuercher
> > > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > > > 630 Henry Street
> > > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
> "Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite 
> world is either a madman or an economist."
> -Kenneth Boulding, economist
> Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!
>
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Milling Strategies?

[ken.strauss]

A few comments/questions:
Is this a one-off job? If so your time is more valuable than the possible 
recovery of a usable scrap of aluminum. Besides, do you have a use for a 1.75x3 
chunk of aluminum?

The stock is 1.75 thick. That means an endmill with a stickout of 2 inches or 
more. A small endmill cannot be used. Chip evacuation will be an issue if 
slotting. Having a jam damages a large endmill is expensive! I definitely would 
not trust masking tape + super glue to secure against the cutting forces. 

Everything considered, turning the plug into chips seems the best approach from 
here.


-Original Message-
From: Greg Bernard  
Sent: February 28, 2023 6:57 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Milling Strategies?

It seems like a slotting tool path would be the way to go. Tabs to hold the 
center in place has been suggested but it could be accomplished also with the 
masking tape and super glue method:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-coDYZCmEw


On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 4:26 PM Robin Szemeti via Emc-users < 
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I'd mill it down do within 1 or 2 mm of the bottom of the material and 
> then swap to a smaller cutter to remove just the outer of the thinner 
> material and leave 3 supporting tabs.  Remove the centre piece by hand  
> and then do a single full depth cleanup pass.
>
> I do this a lot when routing sheet MDF
>
> On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 at 21:46, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>
> > You could use a slotting strategy and tabs (at the bottom) to retain 
> > the piece if you wanted to save the material.  Then cut the tabs out by 
> > hand.
> > Optionally do another finish pass after manual removal if the wall
> surface
> > matters.  But I’d probably just use an adaptive strategy to turn it 
> > into chips.  Easier and probably faster.  As long as you can clear 
> > the chips without standing there with an air gun or vacuum.
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 28, 2023, at 3:53 PM, Todd Zuercher 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I need to mill about a 3.75" hole through a piece of aluminum 
> > > about
> > 1.75" thick.  What is the best strategy to accomplish this on a cnc mill.
> > Is it best to us a pocketing strategy and mill out the entire hole 
> > from
> the
> > center out, or would it be better to use some kind of cutting 
> > strategy
> and
> > mill some size slug out of the middle?  I can see the first option 
> > being simpler, but the 2nd option saves a potentially useful piece 
> > of material, but with the added complication of how to hold and 
> > prevent the chunk of scrap from wreaking havoc when cut free.
> > >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


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either a madman or an economist."
-Kenneth Boulding, economist
Corporations are NOT people and money is NOT speech!

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Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

Nor do I! That is why I sent a pile of cash to Tormach instead of trying to
roll my own. It just works and allows me to make chips without worrying
about editing files or applying updates that break things or... Others
obviously favour different choices!

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Stevenson  
Sent: January 26, 2023 11:38 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

 "Define a set of hardware that works and make their own distribution with
only one user interface.  It doesn't surprise me that nobody wants to do
this thankless task."

Perhaps thankless but Tormach has built a presumably profitable business by
doing exactly that.

And then packaging and selling the hardware to match.
An added dimension many (me included) do not want to tackle.

Overall, I am very impressed (and satisfied) with the capability and
progress.

thanks
Stuart


On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 9:33 AM  wrote:

> "Define a set of hardware that works and make their own distribution 
> with only one user interface.  It doesn't surprise me that nobody 
> wants to do this thankless task."
>
> Perhaps thankless but Tormach has built a presumably profitable 
> business by doing exactly that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Eric Keller 
> Sent: January 26, 2023 10:01 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
>
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:24 AM  wrote:
>
> > To me this is the minimum level of magic required to make a 
> > commercially viable product. The vast majority of potential users 
> > are uncomfortable (or don't want to bother) with manually modifying 
> > configuration files. Of course the power of LinuxCNC is due to the 
> > possibility of configuring things for all sorts of hardware. Without 
> > magic the flexibility means that it will never be mainstream.
>
> Nobody wants to give up the flexibility though.  The problem that lcnc 
> has is aptly summarized in this thread where someone gave up because 
> they wanted to use an Rpi4 and ethercat.  That's fine, and there are 
> plenty of people that have ethercat running with lcnc, maybe even on a 
> Rpi4.  But both the
> Rpi4 and ethercat require a bit of messing around, I think, and 
> neither are really mainline lcnc.  Getting a 3 axis running on a Mesa 
> board on a PC with decent latency (another sticking point, 
> unfortunately) is trivial.  Someone mentioned 4 axis.  The problem 
> with that is that everyone has their own 4th axis.  This is also the 
> problem with lcnc in general.  I would say more than 90% of the 
> problems I see with people having trouble setting up lcnc is they have 
> a totally nonstandard install that wouldn't work with any other 
> software either.  So they can't get it to work with lcnc, buy 
> something standard, and go install Mach. And then badmouth lcnc any 
> time the subject comes up.
>
> The people that want to make lcnc more popular could do something 
> about it, I think.  Define a set of hardware that works and make their 
> own distribution with only one user interface.  It doesn't surprise me 
> that nobody wants to do this thankless task.
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

"Define a set of hardware that works and make their own distribution with
only one user interface.  It doesn't surprise me that nobody wants to do
this thankless task."

Perhaps thankless but Tormach has built a presumably profitable business by
doing exactly that.

-Original Message-
From: Eric Keller  
Sent: January 26, 2023 10:01 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 8:24 AM  wrote:

> To me this is the minimum level of magic required to make a 
> commercially viable product. The vast majority of potential users are 
> uncomfortable (or don't want to bother) with manually modifying 
> configuration files. Of course the power of LinuxCNC is due to the 
> possibility of configuring things for all sorts of hardware. Without 
> magic the flexibility means that it will never be mainstream.

Nobody wants to give up the flexibility though.  The problem that lcnc has
is aptly summarized in this thread where someone gave up because they wanted
to use an Rpi4 and ethercat.  That's fine, and there are plenty of people
that have ethercat running with lcnc, maybe even on a Rpi4.  But both the
Rpi4 and ethercat require a bit of messing around, I think, and neither are
really mainline lcnc.  Getting a 3 axis running on a Mesa board on a PC with
decent latency (another sticking point, unfortunately) is trivial.  Someone
mentioned 4 axis.  The problem with that is that everyone has their own 4th
axis.  This is also the problem with lcnc in general.  I would say more than
90% of the problems I see with people having trouble setting up lcnc is they
have a totally nonstandard install that wouldn't work with any other
software either.  So they can't get it to work with lcnc, buy something
standard, and go install Mach. And then badmouth lcnc any time the subject
comes up.

The people that want to make lcnc more popular could do something about it,
I think.  Define a set of hardware that works and make their own
distribution with only one user interface.  It doesn't surprise me that
nobody wants to do this thankless task.
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, Pennsylvania


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Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

Yes, my Tormach shipped with Mach3. The Mach3 configuration was "locked" so
you couldn't make any changes.

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dobbins  
Sent: January 26, 2023 9:29 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

I remember when Tormach started, they were supplying cnc machines loaded
with Mach 3, they decided to go a different route as their product range
increased.

To quote part of their description:

"If it's available, it's included. We eliminated the headaches of costly
upgrades or a al carte pricing that holds advanced features behind a
paywall."

The nice thing about this is it is open source, you can get hold of it for
no cost and, if you are a geek, you can take a look at how it was all put
together. Nice!  Modify it also if you want. Nice!

Try doing that with a Windows based commercial system.

Martin

From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 7:20 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

Pathpilot is a single bootable image for a variety of Tormach hardware -- at
least 6 traditional CNC mills, a CNC router and at least 3 CNC lathes (not
all current products). It also support 3 different MESA boards, two
different ATC, two different 4th axis, two different probes, touch and
non-touch screens, several different pendants, accessory boards to control
relays to control bar pullers and other devices, automatic coolant pointing,
etc, etc. At boot the Mesa cards are updated to the correct firmware and the
appropriate HAL files are magically selected based on a few user questions
regarding the machine that is being controlled.

To me this is the minimum level of magic required to make a commercially
viable product. The vast majority of potential users are uncomfortable (or
don't want to bother) with manually modifying configuration files. Of course
the power of LinuxCNC is due to the possibility of configuring things for
all sorts of hardware. Without magic the flexibility means that it will
never be mainstream.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: January 26, 2023 12:11 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

Well in real life neither Linux, MacOS or Windows is really a product.  For
that matter the number of times my Android phone wants to update/upgrade the
OS or apps is breathtaking so Android on the phone is also not a product.
It's an OS and a program that interfaces to the product which is the
hardware.  None of them run without hardware.

And Tormach also isn't selling LinuxCNC as a product.  They are selling
hardware that uses LinuxCNC that they have modified and due to the rules are
more or less required to keep it open source.. sort of.

I'm guessing that when someone downloads the Tormach version of LCNC that it
comes with the .hal and .ini files.  And in those files should be the
information that describes the hardware from an connection perspective?

So it should theoretically be possible to use that information to instead
talk to different hardware.  (the product).   But that information must be
available so you know whether to use an NC or NO limit/home switch.  Unless
you want to start editing .hal and .ini files.

I ordered a second cheap BoB so I have two identical units to plug into my
spare Mesa 7i92 which is connected to the Pi4 running LinuxCNC.

Perhaps you or someone can create a version of LinuxCNC that uses the
Tormach user interface that runs on a Pi4.  I have no idea how to do that.
I've never wanted to dive that deep into LinuxCNC.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-25-23 2:11 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
>
> The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product.  It is a 
> development environment where a person can, with some effort, develop 
> a product.
>
> Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have 
> computer skills or much interest in learning computer skills.  What we 
> see on this email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception.  Most 
> machinists just want to make parts and not futz with the tools, 
> especially if the tools involve computers.
>
> We are still in a transition period.  Today most machinists are older 
> men who actually hate and resent CNC.  They spent a lifetime learning 
> to turn handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they don't 
> understand
completely
> outclasses their hard-won skill.The new class of machinist are
> different.  They are more like engineers then blue color factory 
> machinists.  These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as the 
> byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making 
> anything by hand.
>
> We are still 

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

Pathpilot is a single bootable image for a variety of Tormach hardware -- at
least 6 traditional CNC mills, a CNC router and at least 3 CNC lathes (not
all current products). It also support 3 different MESA boards, two
different ATC, two different 4th axis, two different probes, touch and
non-touch screens, several different pendants, accessory boards to control
relays to control bar pullers and other devices, automatic coolant pointing,
etc, etc. At boot the Mesa cards are updated to the correct firmware and the
appropriate HAL files are magically selected based on a few user questions
regarding the machine that is being controlled. 

To me this is the minimum level of magic required to make a commercially
viable product. The vast majority of potential users are uncomfortable (or
don't want to bother) with manually modifying configuration files. Of course
the power of LinuxCNC is due to the possibility of configuring things for
all sorts of hardware. Without magic the flexibility means that it will
never be mainstream.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 26, 2023 12:11 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

Well in real life neither Linux, MacOS or Windows is really a product.  For
that matter the number of times my Android phone wants to update/upgrade the
OS or apps is breathtaking so Android on the phone is also not a product.
It's an OS and a program that interfaces to the product which is the
hardware.  None of them run without hardware.  

And Tormach also isn't selling LinuxCNC as a product.  They are selling
hardware that uses LinuxCNC that they have modified and due to the rules are
more or less required to keep it open source.. sort of.

I'm guessing that when someone downloads the Tormach version of LCNC that it
comes with the .hal and .ini files.  And in those files should be the
information that describes the hardware from an connection perspective?

So it should theoretically be possible to use that information to instead
talk to different hardware.  (the product).   But that information must be
available so you know whether to use an NC or NO limit/home switch.  Unless
you want to start editing .hal and .ini files.

I ordered a second cheap BoB so I have two identical units to plug into my
spare Mesa 7i92 which is connected to the Pi4 running LinuxCNC.  

Perhaps you or someone can create a version of LinuxCNC that uses the
Tormach user interface that runs on a Pi4.  I have no idea how to do that.
I've never wanted to dive that deep into LinuxCNC.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-25-23 2:11 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
> 
> The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product.  It is a 
> development environment where a person can, with some effort, develop 
> a product.
> 
> Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have 
> computer skills or much interest in learning computer skills.  What we 
> see on this email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception.  Most 
> machinists just want to make parts and not futz with the tools, 
> especially if the tools involve computers.
> 
> We are still in a transition period.  Today most machinists are older 
> men who actually hate and resent CNC.  They spent a lifetime learning 
> to turn handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they don't understand
completely
> outclasses their hard-won skill.The new class of machinist are
> different.  They are more like engineers then blue color factory 
> machinists.  These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as the 
> byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making 
> anything by hand.
> 
> We are still in the transitional period where we see a mix of the old 
> guys who have adapted to new ways, new people who have never made 
> anything by hand and the few of us on this list who actualy like to mess
with tools.
> 
> Torrmach did a good thing by turning LCNC into a marketable product.
> 
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi Todd,
> > First of all that LCNC can run 8 head/spindle gang... machine has 
> > nothing to do with the subject line.
> >
> > And the grumble I often hear from people who have attempted or 
> > looked into LinuxCNC for their system is nicely summarized by your
statement:
> >
> > " Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  The companies willing to support and 
> > hold the hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning 
> > anything, charge accordingly."
> >
> > Or as generally interpreted by most:  "F Off if you are a green noob 
> > and can't figure out LCNC or Linux"
> >
> > Personally I think the theme of the original post and conversation 
> > was how easy is it to create a turnkey system that runs Path Pilot 
> > on non Tormach Hardware.
> >
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

There is no 5-axis Tormach so I doubt it. Certainly the screen layout would
have to change significantly to accommodate the display of the 5th axis.
See https://tormach.com/machines/mills/770m.html for an example screen shot
showing the conversational screen for thread milling.

-Original Message-
From: andrew beck  
Sent: January 25, 2023 8:32 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

Ken can pathpilot do 5 axis?



On Thu, 26 Jan 2023, 12:29 ,  wrote:

> My understanding is that it is open source.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Murray Lindeblom 
> Sent: January 25, 2023 5:48 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines
>
> The question I would like answered is does Tormack make PathPilot an 
> open source project or is it a proprietary wrapper on Linuxcnc?
> Murray
>
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 16:35, Linden via Emc-users < 
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
> > Well said. I see the same both in Europe and North America in all 
> > the various fields of industry I deal with.
> >
> > On January 25, 2023 2:11:20 p.m. PST, Chris Albertson < 
> > albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product.  It is a 
> > >development environment where a person can, with some effort, 
> > >develop a product.
> > >
> > >Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have 
> > >computer skills or much interest in learning computer skills.  What 
> > >we see on this email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception.  
> > >Most machinists just
> > want
> > >to make parts and not futz with the tools, especially if the tools 
> > >involve computers.
> > >
> > >We are still in a transition period.  Today most machinists are 
> > >older men who actually hate and resent CNC.  They spent a lifetime 
> > >learning to turn handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they 
> > >don't understand
> > completely
> > >outclasses their hard-won skill.The new class of machinist are
> > >different.  They are more like engineers then blue color factory 
> > >machinists.  These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as 
> > >the byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making 
> > >anything
> > by
> > >hand.
> > >
> > >We are still in the transitional period where we see a mix of the 
> > >old guys who have adapted to new ways, new people who have never 
> > >made anything by hand and the few of us on this list who actualy 
> > >like to mess
> with tools.
> > >
> > >Torrmach did a good thing by turning LCNC into a marketable product.
> > >
> > >On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM John Dammeyer 
> > >
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Todd,
> > >> First of all that LCNC can run 8 head/spindle gang... machine has
> > nothing
> > >> to do with the subject line.
> > >>
> > >> And the grumble I often hear from people who have attempted or 
> > >> looked
> > into
> > >> LinuxCNC for their system is nicely summarized by your statement:
> > >>
> > >> " Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  The companies willing to support 
> > >> and
> > hold
> > >> the hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning 
> > >> anything,
> > charge
> > >> accordingly."
> > >>
> > >> Or as generally interpreted by most:  "F Off if you are a green 
> > >> noob and can't figure out LCNC or Linux"
> > >>
> > >> Personally I think the theme of the original post and 
> > >> conversation was
> > how
> > >> easy is it to create a turnkey system that runs Path Pilot on non
> > Tormach
> > >> Hardware.
> > >>
> > >> IMHO, a lot more people would be interested in LCNC if there was 
> > >> a
> > simple
> > >> easy to follow, step by step method of setting up a 4 axis mill.
> > >> The menu's for setting up motors etc. in AXIS either for the 
> > >> parallel port (almost extinct) or the MESA boards is really good 
> > >> but doesn't go far enough.
> > >>
> > >> There are a few youtube videos out there that show how to select 
> > >> motors based on mass of the system and acme or ball screw or belt
> reduction.
> > But
> > >> the learning curve is steep and is just easier with systems that 
> > >> are not LCNC.
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> > >> > Sent: January-24-23 11:45 AM
> > >> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach 
> > >> > Machines
> > >> >
> > >> > I'd like see the retrofit CNC package on the market (other than
> > >> Linuxcnc) that can run an 8 head/spindle gang
> > >> > router, with individual Z axis and VFD control for each spindle.
> > >> > I'm
> > >> sorry but freedom of customization comes
> > >> > at the cost of complexity.  If you want the freedom to be able 
> > >> > to
> > >> use/run almost anything, you're going to
> > >> > have to know something about both the hardware and 

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

My understanding is that it is open source.

-Original Message-
From: Murray Lindeblom  
Sent: January 25, 2023 5:48 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

The question I would like answered is does Tormack make PathPilot an open
source project or is it a proprietary wrapper on Linuxcnc?
Murray

On Wed, 25 Jan 2023 at 16:35, Linden via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> Well said. I see the same both in Europe and North America in all the 
> various fields of industry I deal with.
>
> On January 25, 2023 2:11:20 p.m. PST, Chris Albertson < 
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >The root of the issue here is that LCNC is not a product.  It is a 
> >development environment where a person can, with some effort, develop 
> >a product.
> >
> >Then the problem is that as a group, machinists tend not to have 
> >computer skills or much interest in learning computer skills.  What 
> >we see on this email list is the one-in-the-thousand exception.  Most 
> >machinists just
> want
> >to make parts and not futz with the tools, especially if the tools 
> >involve computers.
> >
> >We are still in a transition period.  Today most machinists are older 
> >men who actually hate and resent CNC.  They spent a lifetime learning 
> >to turn handwheels and now some voodoo-magic boxes they don't 
> >understand
> completely
> >outclasses their hard-won skill.The new class of machinist are
> >different.  They are more like engineers then blue color factory 
> >machinists.  These new guys see g-code as the product and parts as 
> >the byproduct and most of this new generation is not used to making 
> >anything
> by
> >hand.
> >
> >We are still in the transitional period where we see a mix of the old 
> >guys who have adapted to new ways, new people who have never made 
> >anything by hand and the few of us on this list who actualy like to mess
with tools.
> >
> >Torrmach did a good thing by turning LCNC into a marketable product.
> >
> >On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 1:30 PM John Dammeyer 
> >
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Todd,
> >> First of all that LCNC can run 8 head/spindle gang... machine has
> nothing
> >> to do with the subject line.
> >>
> >> And the grumble I often hear from people who have attempted or 
> >> looked
> into
> >> LinuxCNC for their system is nicely summarized by your statement:
> >>
> >> " Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  The companies willing to support 
> >> and
> hold
> >> the hand of a green noob who isn't interested in learning anything,
> charge
> >> accordingly."
> >>
> >> Or as generally interpreted by most:  "F Off if you are a green 
> >> noob and can't figure out LCNC or Linux"
> >>
> >> Personally I think the theme of the original post and conversation 
> >> was
> how
> >> easy is it to create a turnkey system that runs Path Pilot on non
> Tormach
> >> Hardware.
> >>
> >> IMHO, a lot more people would be interested in LCNC if there was a
> simple
> >> easy to follow, step by step method of setting up a 4 axis mill.  
> >> The menu's for setting up motors etc. in AXIS either for the 
> >> parallel port (almost extinct) or the MESA boards is really good 
> >> but doesn't go far enough.
> >>
> >> There are a few youtube videos out there that show how to select 
> >> motors based on mass of the system and acme or ball screw or belt
reduction.
> But
> >> the learning curve is steep and is just easier with systems that 
> >> are not LCNC.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> >> > Sent: January-24-23 11:45 AM
> >> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach 
> >> > Machines
> >> >
> >> > I'd like see the retrofit CNC package on the market (other than
> >> Linuxcnc) that can run an 8 head/spindle gang
> >> > router, with individual Z axis and VFD control for each spindle.  
> >> > I'm
> >> sorry but freedom of customization comes
> >> > at the cost of complexity.  If you want the freedom to be able to
> >> use/run almost anything, you're going to
> >> > have to know something about both the hardware and software.  You 
> >> > want
> >> simple buy some simple 4 axis all
> >> > in one stepper box and plug it in.
> >> >
> >> > Linuxcnc isn't for everyone.  The companies willing to support 
> >> > and
> hold
> >> the hand of a green noob who isn't
> >> > interested in learning anything, charge accordingly.
> >> >
> >> > Todd Zuercher
> >> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> >> > 630 Henry Street
> >> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> >> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: John Dammeyer 
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2023 1:39 PM
> >> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> >
> >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach 
> >> > Machines
> >> >
> >> > [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

No, I haven't tried nativecam. What does it give me that I don't have as
part of Pathpilot? Prettier UI? Cheaper than free? Trochoidal milling of
simple shapes? CAM directly  from STEP files? Better online tutorials? Do I
get what I already have including: zero effort installation (part of the
base install), documentation, thread milling, DXF import, speed/feed
suggestions, etc, etc?.

-Original Message-
From: Rob C  
Sent: January 24, 2023 2:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

have you tried nativecam?

easy to add to axis (when you've done it before).

centroid acorn is nice, but very expensive and has very few iOS (compared to
Mesa hardware and linuxcnc) and only 4x step and direction ports..
your choice.

On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:42 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > On 24 Jan 2023, at 15:38, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> > >
> > > But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale
> adoption of
> > > LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI.
> >
> > There are around 12 user interfaces. Are you saying that they are 
> > _all_
> terrible?
> >
>
> I'll jump in on this one.   They are _all_ great and they are _all_
> terrible.
>
> Imagine your average home shop machinist.  His kids are finally out 
> the door and he's at an income level where he's got his lathe with a 
> DRO and he just bought a small mill.  He starts looking at CNC.
>
> At work and at home he uses Windows.  And he's bought into the free 
> Fusion
> 360 con job for CAD/CAM and is now looking at how to add CNC to his mill.
>
> OMG.  What a hodge podge of systems.
>
> So he starts on the various groups looking for what is available 
> including even AliExpress which has CNC boxes for $300.
>
> Not having used CNC before and not knowing anyone local the youtube 
> videos become his other source of information and education.  The most 
> interesting ones appear to be ones with 10's of thousands of 
> subscribers that in fact are really long mostly to have multiple 
> advertisers.  But at the time he's not aware that the videos are short 
> on information, long on con for supporting lots of advertising.
>
> IMHO, the more advertisements in really long videos the more likely the
> poster is there to monetize than to actually provide useful help.   How
> interesting to watch a milling cutter for 2 minutes go back and forth 
> making chips.  Oh, and now another advertisement.
>
> So someone on a forum recommends MESA.
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product=83_84
> oduct_id=215 Hmm.  Out of stock.  And even if it were, there's no 
> diagram like the ACORN one.  So no idea where to start...
>
> Oh but then someone suggests
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product_id=38
> 1=7i92
>
> Now I need to wire to it.  A suggestion comes up for two of these and 
> cheap too.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33015669728.html
>
> Next motors and power supplies.  What to buy?  People rave about these 
> new step-servos.  One brand in particular.  But what size?  Direct 
> coupled or with belts and pulleys?
>
> So back to the internet and youtube.  Ah, this guy has a mill like mine.
> He used the Leadshine step servos and ACORN.   Ordered, installed as per
> the youtube video.  Making chips.
>
> And he doesn't have to wade through deciding which of _all_ 12 or so 
> LCNC user interfaces to use.
>
> The above is I think the typical thought processes.
>
> I'm still using AXIS.  Can't be bothered to spend the time trying to 
> figure out whether I should spend $400 for a touch screen HDMI 21" 
> screen or some other user interface.  Really miss the MACROs from 
> MACH3 though.  I think that's what's called the conversational interface
on Tormach?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

Several have opined that Pathpilot is just a pretty face and that is largely
correct. It does provide some nice features -- conversational machining
including drilling, thread milling, facing; probing; import of .DXF, editing
of Gcode, interface to DropBox, etc. I realize that most if not all are
available in other implementations. 

But seriously, in my opinion a major impediment to the widescale adoption of
LinuxCNC is the lack of an appealing and intuitive UI. 

-Original Message-
From: Rob C  
Sent: January 24, 2023 1:55 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

am I missing something, this is all documented on the forum, with a number
of users using tormach with non tormach machines.

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot

Mesa 7i92 will work just fine (I have had it running before)

now I have seen the light, and just run linuxcnc with axis for mill, router
and lathe, and qtplasmac for plasma.  it just works.  no it's not eye candy
but life is about the taste of the coffee and not the shape or look of the
mug / cup.

I do use nativecam and also ngcgui again they just work.

what benefit are you after using path pilot other than the gui appearance?

a similar appearance can be done with using qtpyvcp and probe basic

https://www.qtpyvcp.com/showcase/mill_vcps.html

what do you think tormach is going to do better than linuxcnc? . other
than the display interface?  (I am genuinely curious what the benefit is)

rob


On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 06:04 andrew beck,  wrote:

> Just a quick note.
>
> I think they run a standard mesa card.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2023, 18:22 John Dammeyer,  wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > > From: Ron Ginger [mailto:rongin...@roadrunner.com]
> > >
> > > I would like to try to run PathPilot on my own mill. I now run 
> > > Mach4, but I would like to see how well PathPilot works.
> > >
> > > I see I can simply download a copy from the Tormach site.  what 
> > > interface board do I need?
> > >
> > > What is Tormachs position on this? I know they have to release the 
> > > code because it is based on open source, but do they oppose its use?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > >
> > > ron ginger
> > >
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> > Long time.
> > Have you asked Tormach what kind of interface board they use?  I 
> > doubt it's a parallel port.
> >
> > My guess is if you use open source LCNC for your system.  Spend the 
> > time/money to create a custom user interface for it but don't want
> everyone
> > using it you'd likely use a customized piece of hardware as the 
> > break out board.
> >
> > However, unlike MACH, the two important files in LCNC are the .INI 
> > and .HAL files.  In the Tormach image those two will describe how 
> > they talk
> to
> > the machine hardware.
> >
> > For example I use a MESA 7i92H and for a while had dual boot for 
> > WIN-XP and LCNC to a PMDX-126 break out board.  It's Ethernet to the 
> > MESA which emulates two parallel ports onto the PMDX.
> >
> > Here's how I documented (for my own needs) the first parallel port 
> > with the DB-25 pins cross referenced to the MESA pins.
> >
> > Looking forward to what you find out.
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> > # external I/O signals
> > # IO Connections for P2 MESA 7i92_PMDX126Ax2D.pin  (modified from 
> > pin
> file)
> > # DBn.m_PMDX_Jn.m  I/O   Pri.func  Sec. func   Chan  Pin func
> >   Pin DirSystem usage
> >
> > # P1.1_J6.2 0   IOPort None
> >   (Out)  machine-is-enabled (output)
> > # P1.14_J6.31   IOPort PWM  0PWM
> >(Out)  spindle-vel-cmd-rps PWM (output)
> > # P1.2_J4.2 2   IOPort StepGen  0Step/Table1
> >(Out)  x axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.15_J12.9   3   IOPort None
> >   (In)   max-x-y-min-z (input)
> > # P1.3_J4.3 4   IOPort StepGen  0Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  x axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.16_J6.45   IOPort None
> >   (Out)  spindle-ccw output (output)
> > # P1.4_J3.2 6   IOPort StepGen  1Step/Table1
> >(Out)  y axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.17_J6.57   IOPort StepGen  4Step/Table1
> >(Out)  Charge Pump frequency (output)
> > # P1.5_J3.3 8   IOPort StepGen  1Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  y axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.6_J2.2 9   IOPort StepGen  2Step/Table1
> >(Out)  z axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.7_J2.3 10  IOPort StepGen  2Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  z axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.8_J1.2 11  IOPort StepGen  3Step/Table1
> >(Out)  a axis step pulse (output)
> > # P1.9_J1.2 12  IOPort StepGen  3Dir/Table2
> >   (Out)  a axis dir signal (output)
> > # P1.10_J13.4   13  IOPort None
> >   (In)   estop-external-in 

Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

[ken.strauss]

I have a Tormach and have been running Pathpilot for years. It "talks" to
several Mesa cards -- 7i92, 5i25 and 7i25(?). If no supported interface card
is found it stops with an error message. 

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: January 23, 2023 11:10 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Running PathPilot on non-Tormach Machines

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:23 PM Ron Ginger  wrote:

>
> I see I can simply download a copy from the Tormach site.  what 
> interface board do I need?
>

I doubt Pathpilot talks directly to any interface board.  It is a user
interface and likely generates g-code.

Why not try it and tell us what happens?

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Sharpening teeny drill bits

[ken.strauss]

These would probably work great but they're a little pricey:
https://drillbitsunlimited.com/products/1-16-0625-pcd-diamond-coated-router-
fishtail-tip-great-for-carbon-fiber-carbon-graphite-pcd-116




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Re: [Emc-users] Sharpening teeny drill bits

[ken.strauss]

If you really want to sharpen tiny drill bits you should consider something
like a Swiss Meteor sharpener. Unless you dull an awful lot of some bits
such will never be cost effective.

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: December 18, 2022 5:33 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sharpening teeny drill bits

On 12/18/22 13:54, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
> 
> If the tube is square it should be easy to drill one side then the 
> other so DoC should not be an issue. I'd probably use a 1/16 carbide 
> PCB bit rather than a drill to avoid tool changes. Something like
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/152432448724 I've purchased many times from 
> this vendor and have always been pleased with the product and speed of
delivery.
> Resharpening small bits doesn't seem to be worth the bother.

Thanks Ken, that I guess is the path I'll take. After I check my stock of
1/16" sc bits. I know I have rn's but square nose is a ? Question driven by
the relatively poor eyesight at 88 compared to what it was at 44. Then I
could walk over to the bench grinder and make a pretty dangerous 1/16" bit
by hand. No more after cat surgery in both, and laser in one recently.
Getting old is for the birds, but the alternative is worse. :o)>

Take care and stay well, Ken

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Sharpening teeny drill bits

[ken.strauss]

If the tube is square it should be easy to drill one side then the other so
DoC should not be an issue. I'd probably use a 1/16 carbide PCB bit rather
than a drill to avoid tool changes. Something like
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/152432448724 I've purchased many times from this
vendor and have always been pleased with the product and speed of delivery.
Resharpening small bits doesn't seem to be worth the bother.

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: December 18, 2022 12:50 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Sharpening teeny drill bits

Greetings all;

As many of you know a drill Dr is the bees knees, for drill bits above 6 or
so mm, but a disaster for smaller bits due to the tolerances of the stamped
and plastic chuck giving you lop sided grinding. AKA BIGGER holes.

So, what jig or machine do you all use to sharpen drill bits in the below
5mm categories? Or should I gently spiral down a 1/16" SC mill, but that
runs out of DOC long before it reaches thru a 20mm square CF tube. I've
about 35 such holes to drill in 1mm thick wall CF, 8 of which need to go all
the way thru both sides of the tube. Those will all be thread clearance for
3mm screws, but 8 of them will need to be for a
3mmx.5 tap, in 4.1mm thick alu. CF will no doubt be hell on drill bits, so
it (or they) will need resharpened frequently I expect.

Thank you, stay warm and well everybody.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
  - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAM software

[ken.strauss]

I concur with the Vectric recommendation. I use their VCarve and it also 
handles thread milling, chamfers a little 3D and rotary work. I've rewritten 
their post and now get proper peck drilling, T/C tapping and other goodies.

-Original Message-
From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users  
Sent: October 21, 2022 1:55 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Robin Szemeti 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAM software

FreeCAD barely does CAD either ... best avoided. If you have used SolidWorks, 
trying FreeCAD is like slamming your gingers repeatedly in the desk drawer. 
Last time I tried it, if you removed a feature from the stack, the remaining 
features re-numbered themselves, but didn't renumber the way features were 
attached, so a hole that was in the top of something would now be in the side 
etc. Complete unuseable madness and the developers argued it was "right"!

For CAM I use Cut2D+ from Vectric.  Very good, very cheap.  I am still looking 
for an affordable true 3D cam package, but for "2 and a half D"
Cut2d is fantastic. Pocketing, profiles, drilling, tool libraries, even so 
level of automatic feature recognition and machining strategies through their 
"templates" system.  Perfect for my small mill and my 8x4 router.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 18:23, Feral Engineer 
wrote:

> Only experience I have with alibre was when they were the new kid on 
> the block, trying to compete with solidworks and their interface was 
> almost as painful as freecad is now
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
>
> Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at 
> http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and 
> receive 20% off of your order 
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 1:20 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > That FreeCAD subject has once again prompted me to ask how people 
> > are using their CAD/CAM to generate G-Code.
> >
> > For the first time in about 10 years (or maybe more now) I've 
> > refused to update my support for MecSoft Visual CAD/CAM because 
> > their response to my question was _probably_never_.
> >
> > The question was: "When are you once again going to be able to 
> > import the .AD_PRT files from AlibreCAD?"
> >
> > Way back AlibreCAM was VisualCAM from MecSoft and was integrated 
> > into Alibre.  They had some sort of falling out because Alibre is 
> > also no
> longer
> > interested in supporting VisualCAM stating that it's MecSoft that 
> > makes
> the
> > decision as to whether to integrate.   I feel like it was a painful
> devorce…
> >
> > I'm stuck with using the 2020 version of AlibreCAM (with the 
> > occasional error message) on the current version of AlibreCAD.  I 
> > will tell Alibre this year that I no longer feel the need to pay 
> > support after way more
> than
> > 16 years of support payments (I have drawings from 2006).
> >
> > From what I can see FreeCAD doesn't do CAM.  I have no interest in 
> > using Fusion360.  Both Fusion360, FreeCAD and the VisualCAD user 
> > interface confuse me.  Just can't seem to learn them while I find AlibreCAD 
> > easy.
> > But then I could never really effectively use AutoCAD either which 
> > is why Alibre was so great when it showed up.
> >
> > What is out there for CAM G-Code generation?  Preferably integrated 
> > with with the CAD package so one can go back and forth to tweak a 
> > drawing for better CAM without having to start all over again with the CAD.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > www dot autoartisans dot com
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Freecad path workbench + drilling small hole

[ken.strauss]

Spot drills are also available in carbide which is much stiffer than a HSS spot 
drill.
For best accuracy, the tip angle of the spot drill should be greater than the 
angle of your drill. That is, for a 118-degree drill a spot drill of 120 
degrees or more is best.

-Original Message-
From: Nicklas SB Karlsson  
Sent: October 20, 2022 2:11 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Freecad path workbench + drilling small hole

Center drill is 60 degree angle. It have thick shaft which is good but thinner 
tip.

Spot drill is 90 degree angle and have found statements it is made fo precise 
bore hole placement so muste be a good choice. Will try the spot drill to make 
a dent, probably 8mm to get a stiff shaft. Or maybe drill the hole with the 
spot drill as material is rather thin.


Nicklas Karlsson


tor 2022-10-20 klockan 13:11 -0400 skrev Matthew Herd:
> Or (preferably) use a spot drill, which is even more robust.  They 
> typically have a 90 degree point angle and are very rigid.
> 
> > On Oct 20, 2022, at 12:59 PM, Thomas J Powderly 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Nicklas
> > 
> > always center drill first
> > 
> > tomp
> > 
> > On 10/20/22 9:23 PM, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
> > > There is some things missing in the Freecad path workbench of 
> > > which some are rather simple to fix. Zig facing operation, rigid 
> > > tapping, G95 feed per revolution or tooth is not possible and 
> > > these are probably not to hard to fix. While reorder and get blank 
> > > from machining of previous operation might be harder.
> > > 
> > > Have been able to figure a little bit on the data model add a zig 
> > > function but had to disable some kind of sorting function 
> > > sometimes changing direction of cut, probably to get shortest 
> > > path.
> > > 
> > > Have registered to Freecad mailing lists and posted on at least 
> > > one of them but they seems dead. Anybody else activing in Freecad?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Just starting to machine my first parts milling seems to work 
> > > rather well. Drilling small holes a few millimeters I am however a 
> > > little bit uncertain it work well to start a hole with a normal 
> > > length drill? Or start point tend to slip a little bit on the 
> > > surface?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Nicklas Karlsson
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[ken.strauss]

You boot from the USB and everything is installed magically. When it then boots 
from you HD it starts PathPilot (LinuxCNC). If no 5i25/6i25/7i95 is bound it 
errors. If the right signals are not supplied to your Mesa card it errors. You 
will then have setup HAL, etc and try again.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 2:51 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is 
> chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> >
> > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from 
> > Mach3 using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an 
> > interface closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> 
> Peter
> How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
> John


So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it installs 
LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have Tormach I'd 
then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and INI files?

And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or 
clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must one 
still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?

Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached that 
shows how to do this?

Thanks
John





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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[ken.strauss]

All of the above! There is a conversational wizard screen that mostly does
what you want. For my work I would probably model it in CAD since facing
would be only a tiny part of the ultimate machining. As others have
suggested, try it yourself on Tormach Hub.

The only Tormach conversational stuff that I use often is thread milling.
Works a treat!



-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 6:29 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

Awesome.  A Tormach user!
  
OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I can
clamp it in the vise and set it so about 0.25" is above the edge of the vise
and it's pretty close to parallel with the XY plane.
I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand casting
imperfections.  My shell mill with 4 carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.  

So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?  
Or do you manually write G-Code?  
Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the G-Code?

Thanks
John



> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded 
> programs prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much 
> safer and crashes never break a tool!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> >
> > And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the 
> > vise or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached 
> > photo or must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >
> > Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one 
> > attached that shows how to do this?
> >
> 
> 
> Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This 
> lets you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part 
> and see how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I 
> own a real PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online 
> simulation I can move the code to my milling machine.
> 
> I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for 
> students taking PathPilot classes.
> 
> The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but 
> the mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you 
> to program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time 
> safer
> 
> The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below 
> https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[ken.strauss]

I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded programs
prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much safer and crashes
never break a tool!

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise 
> or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or 
> must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached 
> that shows how to do this?
>


Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for students
taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to program
the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

[ken.strauss]

Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 11:57 AM
To: gro...@homanndesigns.com; 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC


> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> 
> Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3 
> using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface 
> closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 

Peter
How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?  
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Stop then probe tripped during move, machine does not stop?

[ken.strauss]

I agree about stopping and I have the broken tips to prove it! IMHO an even
better solution would be to:
* Allow jogging as usual if probe is not tripped
* If probe trips, reverse motion until probe is untripped
* Move forward in the original direction at slow speed until probe trips
again
* Stop

This would allow jogging at any speed without fear of probe damage. If the
probe trips then one could set X/Y/Z zero when the motion stops.

-Original Message-
From: Nicklas SB Karlsson  
Sent: June 25, 2022 10:53 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Stop then probe tripped during move, machine does not
stop?

Expected movement to stop the "probe tripped during move" but this does not
happen. Risk to make a mistake bending the probe then jogging or using other
g-code commands to move it into place is to small so guess it would be a
good idea if machine stop then this happen?


Have also been thinking about an attribute in the tool table indicate if it
is a probe. Pretty sure it is not possible to access the comment field from
g-code but use a special value for ninth axis would solve it though these
kind of special uses tend to add up over time and it is easy to forget how
it was made.


Have seen Renishaw probes for sale with broken tip, maybe more than once.



Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-users] custom | stock bearing nut

[ken.strauss]

Or even easier, use a thread gauge!

-Original Message-
From: Roland Jollivet  
Sent: April 5, 2022 2:28 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] custom | stock bearing nut

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 at 18:47, dave engvall  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have a pair of ball screws: THK KX 71227 A These are new but older 
> and as far as I can tell not on the THK site.
> They are threaded on one end to retain a bearing.
> M15 x 0.8 or close. Does anyone know of a bearing nut that would fit 
> or am I stuck with having a pair custom made?
> I've spent a fair amount of time searching the web but maybe 
> (probably) someone else's  google foo is better than mine.
> As always TIA
>
> Dave
>

0.8mm pitch is very... fine for a diameter that large. Unlikely.
It's possibly 1mm as that is the finest most large diameters go to.

So the easiest way to check is to take a machine screw and lay it on the
ballscrew to check engagement, with a standard;
M8 x 1.25mm
M6 x 1mm
M5 x 0.8mm
M4 x 0.7mm

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Re: [Emc-users] custom | stock bearing nut

[ken.strauss]

Measure the thread accurately and even without a lathe it should be easy
enough to thread mill a nut. Are your certain about the 0.8mm pitch? A pitch
of 0.75 or 1.0mm seems more likely? A M15x0.75 tap is available from
https://www.threadtools.com/hss-taps/hss-taps-2-p-metric-9/p9 and I'm
certain other vendors.

-Original Message-
From: Sam Sokolik  
Sent: April 5, 2022 12:57 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] custom | stock bearing nut

wow - I had a hard enough time finding  12mm x 1..  The local hardware store
actually  had 'jam nuts' in that pitch.  I can't say I have ever run across
.8  - are you sure? ;)

sam



On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 11:47 AM dave engvall  wrote:

> Hi all,
> I have a pair of ball screws: THK KX 71227 A These are new but older 
> and as far as I can tell not on the THK site.
> They are threaded on one end to retain a bearing.
> M15 x 0.8 or close. Does anyone know of a bearing nut that would fit 
> or am I stuck with having a pair custom made?
> I've spent a fair amount of time searching the web but maybe 
> (probably) someone else's  google foo is better than mine.
> As always TIA
>
> Dave
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

Agreed about making an encoder and I have an Omron unit with A/B/Z outputs
"in the mail" from China. 

The drawbar for my R8 spindle extends out the top of the spindle. It is a
hollow shaft encoder with an 8mm through hole but that is insufficient to
accommodate a drawbar. I suppose that I could couple it to the top of the
drawbar with some sort of slip coupling but that has potential issues with
alignment and coupling backlash. Perhaps I'm not looking at things the
correctly but it seems that the simplest approach is using a pulley and belt
to offset things. Also, the encoder is rated for a maximum of 1 rpm and
that is my max spindle speed; I could reduce with a 2:1 pulley + belt. 

Other suggestions are welcomed!

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: April 1, 2022 11:37 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

It is hard to beat GT2.  It is the current state of the art in belt-tooth
profile. (except for the identical G3)

But if you are using a belt, then just buy a $30 Omron encoder.  No need to
build one as it would be hard to make a better encoder.  I doubt you could
make an encoder as small and accurate as the Omron using normal CNC
equipment.

But if you could fit a pulley to the spindle, why can't you fit an encoder
disk?



On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 7:28 PM  wrote:

> There has been some good info on how to build an encoder on this thread.
> My concern is how to couple an encoder to my mill spindle. Due to the 
> mill design it doesn't seem feasible to attach the encoder directly to 
> the spindle so I will need to use a belt drive. The spindle runs at up 
> to 10500 rpm. GT2 belts are readily available and the SDP-SI website 
> says that they can be used at up to 7500 feet per minute. I believe 
> that a 2-inch pulley spinning at 1 rpm would move the belt at 
> about 5,200 fpm so somewhat below the maximum. Is there a better belt
choice?
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

There has been some good info on how to build an encoder on this thread. My 
concern is how to couple an encoder to my mill spindle. Due to the mill design 
it doesn't seem feasible to attach the encoder directly to the spindle so I 
will need to use a belt drive. The spindle runs at up to 10500 rpm. GT2 belts 
are readily available and the SDP-SI website says that they can be used at up 
to 7500 feet per minute. I believe that a 2-inch pulley spinning at 1 rpm 
would move the belt at about 5,200 fpm so somewhat below the maximum. Is there 
a better belt choice?



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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

Thanks but too late now. We'll see if I'm lucky.

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: March 28, 2022 8:42 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 03:14,  wrote:
>
> The Omron E6D-C series are rated at 12,000 rpm The Omron E6H-C series 
> are rated at 10,000 rpm
>
> I ordered an E6H from eBay with delivery promised in a month.

You need to be a little careful with those, some have no index. The advertisers 
don't appear to know the difference.
You can generally read the label in the photos to work it out.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

The Omron E6D-C series are rated at 12,000 rpm
The Omron E6H-C series are rated at 10,000 rpm

I ordered an E6H from eBay with delivery promised in a month. 
The vendor claims new and 20 available. See
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/183308776725


-Original Message-
From: Martin Dobbins  
Sent: March 27, 2022 9:09 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

Yes, that's correct, it's also the same for 1000 ppr:

https://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/2450/

Martin

From: ken.stra...@gmail.com

According to https://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/2463/ max RPM for that
model (E6B2-CWZ6C-2000P) is 6000.

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dobbins 
Sent: March 27, 2022 6:44 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

gene heskett 


>I'd just search ebay for Omron encoder, and get the 20 dollar or so
>1000 ppr differential version. I expect it would work.

Like this, maybe?

https://www.ebay.com/p/2159915706?iid=333709462343

oops that's a 2000 ppr

Martin




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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

According to https://www.ia.omron.com/product/item/2463/ max RPM for that
model (E6B2-CWZ6C-2000P) is 6000.

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dobbins  
Sent: March 27, 2022 6:44 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

gene heskett 


>I'd just search ebay for Omron encoder, and get the 20 dollar or so 
>1000 ppr differential version. I expect it would work.

Like this, maybe?

https://www.ebay.com/p/2159915706?iid=333709462343

oops that's a 2000 ppr

Martin




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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

Gene, do you have a part number for your high RPM Omron encoder? Maybe I can
snag one...

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: March 27, 2022 4:49 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

On Sunday, 27 March 2022 15:45:48 EDT ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you want spindle positioning (for more accurate probing of 
> alignment for tool changes for examples) you'll need the encoder to 
> follow the position at all speeds. Are there high RPM capable absolute 
> encoders at a reasonable price?

The one I have on the rear end of that 1hp motor, an Omron 1000 ppr, cost me
$21 on fleabay 6 years ago. Its a differential model I'm converting to ttl
in a pair of rs485 to ttl interfaces that cost about $2 each, driving a 5i25
card. NO optics in that path. Absolute it is not, but if the encoder tracks,
who cares.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis





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Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

[ken.strauss]

If you want spindle positioning (for more accurate probing of alignment for 
tool changes for examples) you'll need the encoder to follow the position at 
all speeds. Are there high RPM capable absolute encoders at a reasonable price?

-Original Message-
From: andrew beck  
Sent: March 27, 2022 3:31 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Homebuilt encoder

I currently have a 1000 PPR encoder on it. And that rigid taps great.

Ideally I would like something similar

How fast can those sensors read?

1000ppr at 10k rpm would be great

But just thinking about it.  I only actually need to be able to read encoder up 
to say 2000 rpm

At high speed it doesn't matter

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022, 22:21 Andy Pugh,  wrote:

>
>
> > On 27 Mar 2022, at 08:09, andrew beck  wrote:
> >
> > And is bigger dia better for higher resolution?
>
> Probably not, as it will perhaps have more scope to oscillate at 
> 10,000 rpm.
>
> Don’t neglect the purely mechanical design of this fast-spinning part.
>
> Have you considered optical sensors rather than inductive?
>
> What will be counting the pulses?
>
> LinuxCNC can lathe-thread with one sensor.
> But rigid-tapping is different as it needs to accurately detect the 
> reversal point. So you need three channels for index and full quadrature.
>
> Work out what error you can accept in the reversal point detection (as 
> a fraction of thread pitch) and you can get a feel for how many slots 
> you need.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Laser measurement sensor

[ken.strauss]

That is a good summary of the technology approaches but take a look at the 
Acuity AR200 
(https://www.acuitylaser.com/product/laser-sensors/short-range-sensors/ar200-laser-measurement-sensor/).
 It claims an accuracy of 12 microns (0.0005 inches) over distances of up to 
100mm. I suspect that are more capable units from other vendors.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: March 7, 2022 2:04 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laser measurement sensor

You can not get that kind of absolute precision with a time of light
sensor.   Even if you were willing to spend $100K.

But you can measure relative distance MUCH finer than what you ask for.
 THis will tell you how foar the part moved.  Maybe this is good enough?

 They measure relative distance by splitting the beam and sending one part to a 
mirror mounted to the moving part.  The half-beam goes to the mirror and back 
then to a sensor, while the other half-beam goes directly to the sensor.  The 
two beams interfere with each other as they add in phase and out of phase.  The 
idea is to count the transitions from in to out of
phase.   Obviously this is not a cheap instrument, but hobbyists have built
things like this.

The time of flight sensor work by measuring the time it takes for light to 
travel the distance being measured.  Light moves at about one foot per
nanosecond.So to get "plus/minus one foot" accuracy, you need a clock
that measures nanoseconds. If you can measure picoseconds, you are
still only at the 0.01 inch level.There are better clocks but only in
specialized laboratories.

For home use on a normal budget "centimeter level" time of flight is about what 
you can get.

There is one more optical technique.   Basically it is triangulation.  A
laser projects a spot on the target and it is viewd from two different
angles.   There are many takes on this and some sensors are only a few
dollars but they are over 1,000 time lass accurate then you want.

These can be really cheap if you don't need 0.001".  For example they use
them in a grain silo looking down to measure how much grain is stored.   Or
even on a no-contact sink faucet to measure if your hand is under where the
water would go.   But for those things, centimeters are good enough.

On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 9:47 AM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’m looking for a laser distance sensor with about 1-3 thousandths 
> resolution and about a 5-10” working range.
> I wouldn’t mind buying a used unit.
>
> Does anyone here know of some brands/ models to check out?
>
> Google has pointed me at some Acuity products but I wondered if there 
> were other options besides that.
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Couple Q's re 4th axis on a mill.

[ken.strauss]

Perhaps I misunderstand but why do you plan to cut the thread in short
pieces rather than the whole length but obviously in several passes due to
allowed DoC and WoC? Is the final thread diameter to be about 2-inch or much
smaller? In any case shouldn't you make the stock approximately round prior
to cutting any threads?

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: February 25, 2022 10:16 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Couple Q's re 4th axis on a mill.

Greetings all;

I am about to install this rebuilt rotary drive on my 6040 mill, aligned to
rotate stuff on the Y axis, which is the long axis on a 6040.

Out of the alphabet of ABCUVW, which is the proper axis to call it?

It will for the next job, be turning a 2"x2"x18" on center of its 2x2 end,
stick of hard maple, carving a 2 start buttress thread that 18" long to make
a screw for a leg vise paddle on my woodworking bench.

And, does this change the kinematics module which is trivkins now?

The intention is to turn the stick while advancing Y at 2x the pitch per rev
of this axis, rotate the stick 180 degrees and reverse it to come back,
carving the the 2nd start thread on the back stroke. Then advance both Z in
the profile of the thread, doing a forward stroke up this 2nd start, back up
the new axis by the 180 it was advanced to come back on the 1st start path.
Then advance the starting rotation position along with a z to the next point
in the profile, wash, rinse and repeat until the full depth of the buttress
thread has been carved. Done right, both thread starts will get cuts from
both directions of Y travel. Automatic backlash comp, although this mill
does not seem to have measureable backlash. I used it to carve its own ER
chuck wrenches from 1/2" alu plate, and should have added another thou, they
fit very tightly. 

I am assuming that I can drive this new axis from 30,000 degrees to
30,180 and back to 30,000 at the back end turn around wihout the axis doing
any mod[360]'s on me.  And while I've yet to start the g-code itself, I'm
thinking I should fix the y linear start and stop points, but increment the
rotational degrees to carve the threads profile by small advances in Z vs
rotation start.  The dead center end of the stick could then have threads
clear to the end without an entry groove, it would just run off the end of
the stick.

At the speed this rotary can move with its printed 50/1 harmonic drive, this
could easily be a 3 or more day job.  With lots of vacuum cleanup. 
I've obtained 20 SC, 1/16" ball nose cutters, some with 3/16" LOC, some with
1//4" LOC. With that puny a cutter, I do expect to dull and break some of
them.

Comments/guidance to keep me from doing something stupid would be much
appreciated.

Thanks all. Take care and stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] small hole needle gauge thingy

[ken.strauss]

To be honest I've almost never used them. I have a serious disease that
causes me to buy any metrology widgets that are available inexpensively.

-Original Message-
From: fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users  
Sent: February 20, 2022 6:15 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)' 
Cc: fxkl4...@protonmail.com
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] small hole needle gauge thingy

> On Fri, 18 Feb 2022, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Promised pictures attached
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users 
>> Sent: February 17, 2022 9:07 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) 
>> 
>> Cc: fxkl4...@protonmail.com
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] small hole needle gauge thingy
>>
>> On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
>>
>>> hi, i think its a
>>>
>>> Helios-Preisser D?senlehre 0,1 mm 0 - 5 mm 0599102
>>>
>>> helios maker of fine calipers, very old school tomp
>>>
>>> On 2/17/22 7:35 PM, fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users wrote:
>>>
 Take a look at this video at time 16:30 Does anyone recognize this 
 device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf7DuvcScyk
>>
>> At first glance I thought that might be a handy tool But it measures 
>> the lip of the hole So any burr or any deburring makes it useless It 
>> still looks cool
>>

Do you find these useful



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Re: [Emc-users] small hole needle gauge thingy

[ken.strauss]

There are several companies that make/made similar hole gages. I have ones
with both a scale + magnifier similar to the one in the video and another
with a DTI to read the diameter. The label on one of the magnifier ones
says: 
KWIK-CHECK GAGE Company
7707 North U.S. #1, Suite 4
Vero Beach Florida 32967 

The DTI one is a Brencor, Inc Model 130

I'll attach photos to another email. Hopefully they are not too large...

-Original Message-
From: fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users  
Sent: February 17, 2022 9:07 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) 
Cc: fxkl4...@protonmail.com
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] small hole needle gauge thingy

On Thu, 17 Feb 2022, Thomas J Powderly wrote:

> hi, i think its a
>
> Helios-Preisser D?senlehre 0,1 mm 0 - 5 mm 0599102
>
> helios maker of fine calipers, very old school tomp
>
> On 2/17/22 7:35 PM, fxkl47BF--- via Emc-users wrote:
>
>> Take a look at this video at time 16:30 Does anyone recognize this 
>> device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf7DuvcScyk

At first glance I thought that might be a handy tool But it measures the lip
of the hole So any burr or any deburring makes it useless It still looks
cool



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Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

[ken.strauss]

Small ball endmills are available for reasonable prices. See
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/154526476320 and
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/152182318115 for examples from a vendor with whom
I've been happy. Of course tiny ones may have insufficient reach to get to
the bottom of your threads.

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: February 13, 2022 10:14 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 6:22:05 PM EST ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Another possibility would be to make a good approximation to the 
> desired buttress thread using a ball endmill. Mount the stock 
> horizontal on your 4th axis and make multiple passes with the ball 
> endmill with each pass being deeper and nearer to the vertical wall of 
> the buttress thread. Of course the root of the thread would be 
> semi-circular rather than sharp but that is probably a plus to reduce 
> stress risers.

I hadn't considered that, but you may be right about the stress risers, and
they would fit just fine.

I have 1/8" ball nose tools to try a short test cut with, and its worth the
try.

I wasn't thinking far enough outside the box. :o( A 2mm (or 3mm) ball nose
would be icing on the cake.

Thanks Ken.
> -Original Message-
> From: gene heskett 
> Sent: February 13, 2022 5:46 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
> 
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 1:32:05 PM EST ken.stra...@gmail.com
wrote:
> > Thread milling would be a good approach except that I doubt that 
> > Gene has 18-inches of Z-clearance on his small mill to thread the 
> > length of his desired screw plus spindle clearance to mill to the 
> > table might be an issue.
> 
> Yes, one of the reasons for the tiny harmonic drive is the clearance 
> for the gantry to pass over it. The drive is mounted coaxial to the 
> motor on the other side of the motor mount bulkhead of the assembly, 
> and the gantry bottom clears it by about 1/8" going by. Only 85mm in 
> diameter. That won't be a problem in this instance as the drive will 
> actually be bolted to a shelf stuck to the rear of the base frame, 
> with only the chuck projecting over the bed, ditto the tailstock stuck 
> to the front of the base frame left of the Y motor at the same x 
> offset. That should leave room for a hard maple stick around 21" long 
> to carve into a bolt.
> Final length TBD of coarse.
> All driven by the relatively low bending moment on the stick from a 
> 20k rpm bit vs a shaped bit in the sheldon turn at 250 rpms. That 
> would demand a much sharper tool, probably not maintainable for one 
> full sweep the length of the stick.
> 
> Thanks Ken, take care & stay well.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: dave engvall 
> > Sent: February 13, 2022 1:20 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
> > 
> > Other options for buttress. DIN |  ANSI .. Either grind a tool out 
> > of
> > M2 or equivalent or go shopping for inserts on the web surplus sites.
> > They won't be cheap but a bit less hassle. Single point thread mill??
> > Lathe sound easier than milling it.
> > 
> > Dave
> > 
> > On 2/13/22 9:37 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Alternatively one can tilt the stock rather than the head which I 
> > > believe is Gene's plan.
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users 
> > > 
> > > Sent: February 13, 2022 12:26 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > > 
> > > Cc: Robin Szemeti 
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
> > > 
> > > If you can tilt the head at an angle, then something as simple as
> > > "G1
> > > X300.00 B30.00" will do it, depending on how you have configured 
> > > the B axis. If you can't  tilt the head, no amount of GCODE will 
> > > help you.
> > > 
> > > I'd just do it on the lathe ...
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 16:54, gene heskett 
> 
> wrote:
> > >> Greetings all;
> > >> 
> > >> I have composed a simple butress thread in OpenSCAD, which can 
> > >> save many formats besides the .stl's I feed cura with. Those 
> > >> choices are shown in this list:
> > >> STL
> > >> OFF
> > >> WRL
> > >> AMF
> > >> 3MF
> > >> DXF
> > >> SVG
> > >> CSG
> > >> PDF
> > >> image (png)
> > >> 
> > >> The latter being what you see in the attached png images.
> > >> 
> > >> What is out there that can make gcode out of one of those 
> > >> formats, assuming I can do some creative editing to make the bolt 
> > >> code carve an 18" bolt from a hard maple 2x2 being spun by a B 
> > >> axis as Y slowly advances with aux tables to make the Y axis long 
> > >> enough on both ends on my 6040 mill, and I till use a 60 degree 
> > >> engraving mill in it with a 30 degree wedge under the motor mount 
> > >> to tip it to make the 0 degree load face of the thread with the 
> > >> side of the tool's V. I intend to make the wedge as a hinge if I 
> > >> can print it rigid enough.
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

[ken.strauss]

Another possibility would be to make a good approximation to the desired
buttress thread using a ball endmill. Mount the stock horizontal on your 4th
axis and make multiple passes with the ball endmill with each pass being
deeper and nearer to the vertical wall of the buttress thread. Of course the
root of the thread would be semi-circular rather than sharp but that is
probably a plus to reduce stress risers. 

-Original Message-
From: gene heskett  
Sent: February 13, 2022 5:46 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 1:32:05 PM EST ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thread milling would be a good approach except that I doubt that Gene 
> has 18-inches of Z-clearance on his small mill to thread the length of 
> his desired screw plus spindle clearance to mill to the table might be 
> an issue.

Yes, one of the reasons for the tiny harmonic drive is the clearance for the
gantry to pass over it. The drive is mounted coaxial to the motor on the
other side of the motor mount bulkhead of the assembly, and the gantry
bottom clears it by about 1/8" going by. Only 85mm in diameter. 
That won't be a problem in this instance as the drive will actually be
bolted to a shelf stuck to the rear of the base frame, with only the chuck
projecting over the bed, ditto the tailstock stuck to the front of the base
frame left of the Y motor at the same x offset. That should leave room for a
hard maple stick around 21" long to carve into a bolt. 
Final length TBD of coarse.
All driven by the relatively low bending moment on the stick from a 20k rpm
bit vs a shaped bit in the sheldon turn at 250 rpms. That would demand a
much sharper tool, probably not maintainable for one full sweep the length
of the stick.

Thanks Ken, take care & stay well.

> -Original Message-
> From: dave engvall 
> Sent: February 13, 2022 1:20 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
> 
> Other options for buttress. DIN |  ANSI .. Either grind a tool out of
> M2 or equivalent or go shopping for inserts on the web surplus sites.
> They won't be cheap but a bit less hassle. Single point thread mill??
> Lathe sound easier than milling it.
> 
> Dave
> 
> On 2/13/22 9:37 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Alternatively one can tilt the stock rather than the head which I 
> > believe is Gene's plan.
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users 
> > Sent: February 13, 2022 12:26 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > 
> > Cc: Robin Szemeti 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
> > 
> > If you can tilt the head at an angle, then something as simple as 
> > "G1
> > X300.00 B30.00" will do it, depending on how you have configured the 
> > B axis. If you can't  tilt the head, no amount of GCODE will help 
> > you.
> > 
> > I'd just do it on the lathe ...
> > 
> > On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 16:54, gene heskett 
wrote:
> >> Greetings all;
> >> 
> >> I have composed a simple butress thread in OpenSCAD, which can save 
> >> many formats besides the .stl's I feed cura with. Those choices are 
> >> shown in this list:
> >> STL
> >> OFF
> >> WRL
> >> AMF
> >> 3MF
> >> DXF
> >> SVG
> >> CSG
> >> PDF
> >> image (png)
> >> 
> >> The latter being what you see in the attached png images.
> >> 
> >> What is out there that can make gcode out of one of those formats, 
> >> assuming I can do some creative editing to make the bolt code carve 
> >> an 18" bolt from a hard maple 2x2 being spun by a B axis as Y 
> >> slowly advances with aux tables to make the Y axis long enough on 
> >> both ends on my 6040 mill, and I till use a 60 degree engraving 
> >> mill in it with a 30 degree wedge under the motor mount to tip it 
> >> to make the 0 degree load face of the thread with the side of the 
> >> tool's V. I intend to make the wedge as a hinge if I can print it 
> >> rigid enough.
> >> And PETG seems like it could be the Right Stuff.
> >> 
> >> The target of all this tom-foolery is a wood workbench vise screw.
> >> The 2nd half nut is about half done on my BIQU HX printer as I send 
> >> this. So its beginning to look do-able.
> >> 
> >> I faintly recall that inkscape had a gcode generator plugin at one 
> >> time, does anyone have a clue how well it works or if it even 
> >> exists
> > 
> > today?
> > 
> >> Synaptic does not look promising but I installed inscape and 
> >> friends anyway, and of coarse pycam, and I just found dxf2gcode, so 
> >> that got installed.
> >> 
> >> Does anyone else have a better idea?
> >> 
> >> Thanks All;
> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >> --
> >> 
> >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> >> 
> >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law 
> >> respectable.>>
> >>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> >> 
> >> Genes Web page 

Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

[ken.strauss]

Thread milling would be a good approach except that I doubt that Gene has 
18-inches of Z-clearance on his small mill to thread the length of his desired 
screw plus spindle clearance to mill to the table might be an issue.

-Original Message-
From: dave engvall  
Sent: February 13, 2022 1:20 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

Other options for buttress. DIN |  ANSI .. Either grind a tool out of M2 or 
equivalent or go shopping for inserts on the web surplus sites. They won't be 
cheap but a bit less hassle.
Single point thread mill??
Lathe sound easier than milling it.

Dave

On 2/13/22 9:37 AM, ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Alternatively one can tilt the stock rather than the head which I 
> believe is Gene's plan.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users 
> Sent: February 13, 2022 12:26 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Cc: Robin Szemeti 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker
>
> If you can tilt the head at an angle, then something as simple as "G1
> X300.00 B30.00" will do it, depending on how you have configured the B axis.
> If you can't  tilt the head, no amount of GCODE will help you.
>
> I'd just do it on the lathe ...
>
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 16:54, gene heskett  wrote:
>
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> I have composed a simple butress thread in OpenSCAD, which can save 
>> many formats besides the .stl's I feed cura with. Those choices are 
>> shown in this list:
>> STL
>> OFF
>> WRL
>> AMF
>> 3MF
>> DXF
>> SVG
>> CSG
>> PDF
>> image (png)
>>
>> The latter being what you see in the attached png images.
>>
>> What is out there that can make gcode out of one of those formats, 
>> assuming I can do some creative editing to make the bolt code carve 
>> an 18" bolt from a hard maple 2x2 being spun by a B axis as Y slowly 
>> advances with aux tables to make the Y axis long enough on both ends 
>> on my 6040 mill, and I till use a 60 degree engraving mill in it with 
>> a 30 degree wedge under the motor mount to tip it to make the 0 
>> degree load face of the thread with the side of the tool's V. I 
>> intend to make the wedge as a hinge if I can print it rigid enough. 
>> And PETG seems like it could be the Right Stuff.
>>
>> The target of all this tom-foolery is a wood workbench vise screw. 
>> The 2nd half nut is about half done on my BIQU HX printer as I send this.
>> So its beginning to look do-able.
>>
>> I faintly recall that inkscape had a gcode generator plugin at one 
>> time, does anyone have a clue how well it works or if it even exists
> today?
>> Synaptic does not look promising but I installed inscape and friends 
>> anyway, and of coarse pycam, and I just found dxf2gcode, so that got 
>> installed.
>>
>> Does anyone else have a better idea?
>>
>> Thanks All;
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>   - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page 
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

[ken.strauss]

Alternatively one can tilt the stock rather than the head which I believe is
Gene's plan.

-Original Message-
From: Robin Szemeti via Emc-users  
Sent: February 13, 2022 12:26 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Robin Szemeti 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] need gcode maker

If you can tilt the head at an angle, then something as simple as "G1
X300.00 B30.00" will do it, depending on how you have configured the B axis.
If you can't  tilt the head, no amount of GCODE will help you.

I'd just do it on the lathe ...

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 at 16:54, gene heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I have composed a simple butress thread in OpenSCAD, which can save 
> many formats besides the .stl's I feed cura with. Those choices are 
> shown in this list:
> STL
> OFF
> WRL
> AMF
> 3MF
> DXF
> SVG
> CSG
> PDF
> image (png)
>
> The latter being what you see in the attached png images.
>
> What is out there that can make gcode out of one of those formats, 
> assuming I can do some creative editing to make the bolt code carve an 
> 18" bolt from a hard maple 2x2 being spun by a B axis as Y slowly 
> advances with aux tables to make the Y axis long enough on both ends 
> on my 6040 mill, and I till use a 60 degree engraving mill in it with 
> a 30 degree wedge under the motor mount to tip it to make the 0 degree 
> load face of the thread with the side of the tool's V. I intend to 
> make the wedge as a hinge if I can print it rigid enough. And PETG 
> seems like it could be the Right Stuff.
>
> The target of all this tom-foolery is a wood workbench vise screw. The 
> 2nd half nut is about half done on my BIQU HX printer as I send this. 
> So its beginning to look do-able.
>
> I faintly recall that inkscape had a gcode generator plugin at one 
> time, does anyone have a clue how well it works or if it even exists
today?
>
> Synaptic does not look promising but I installed inscape and friends 
> anyway, and of coarse pycam, and I just found dxf2gcode, so that got 
> installed.
>
> Does anyone else have a better idea?
>
> Thanks All;
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] rotary table re-engineeering

[ken.strauss]

I suspect that a mini-mill would have issues with an 8-inch rotary table.

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: January 23, 2022 2:39 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] rotary table re-engineeering

On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 18:59, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> But this is for a "*mini*-mill"  you do NOT need cast iron parts.

He said it was a "small mill". Many would consider a Bridgeport to be a small 
mill. I certainly consider my Harrison to be small, but it weighs nearly a ton.

But, making patterns and having parts cast is _fun_ :-)

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

[ken.strauss]

That probably means that the item is in stock in Mississauga and it must be
shipped from there to the distribution centre nearest you. I sometimes get
similar, surprising, delays. 

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 12, 2022 1:14 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

Victoria,BC.  And for me it promises delivery on the 19th.  Odd eh?

> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-12-22 10:03 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> 
> I'm over 100KM from Toronto but Amazon still promises delivery to here 
> tomorrow. I thought that you were in Vancouver...
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: January 12, 2022 12:53 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> 
> For me it's delivery in one week and with taxes just under $20.
> Thanks
> John
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: January-12-22 5:28 AM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> >
> >
> https://www.amazon.ca/ER-32UM-Spanner-Precision-Milling-Clamping/dp/B0
> 89RXC7
> K1 ca$18.50 delivered tomorrow.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Sent: January 12, 2022 3:48 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > 
> > Subject: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> >
> > So my Collet chuck arrived a week or so ago.  Today the ER-32 collet 
> > set arrived.  I no longer have an excuse for not completing my 4th 
> > axis driven by a real harmonic drive.  (Well it is raining and can't
> cast).  So I have drawn up the face plate adaptor and that looks to be 
> a pretty easy LCNC project for the mill plus a bit of lathe work.
> >
> > However, I foolishly did not order a collet wrench.  This seems to 
> > overall be a pretty easy CNC project with the exception of the 'teeth'
> > that engage the collet.  I suppose I could mill out the profiles in 
> > some
> oil hardening steel, then file the teeth to have straight edges.  
> Finally harden it.
> >
> > Alternatively make it out of 1/4" or so steel plate (or even
> > aluminium) and drill and tap holes for screws to protrude out where 
> > the
> teeth are.  Turn down the screw ends to be smooth or even square and 
> lock the screws in place.
> >
> > Looking for suggestions here.  Don't really want to wait 2 months 
> > for one wrench with either low price and horrendous shipping or high 
> > price and
> low shipping.  Cost ends up being the same at about $28.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

[ken.strauss]

I'm over 100KM from Toronto but Amazon still promises delivery to here
tomorrow. I thought that you were in Vancouver...

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 12, 2022 12:53 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

For me it's delivery in one week and with taxes just under $20.  
Thanks
John

> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: January-12-22 5:28 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> 
>
https://www.amazon.ca/ER-32UM-Spanner-Precision-Milling-Clamping/dp/B089RXC7
K1 ca$18.50 delivered tomorrow.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: January 12, 2022 3:48 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench
> 
> So my Collet chuck arrived a week or so ago.  Today the ER-32 collet 
> set arrived.  I no longer have an excuse for not completing my 4th 
> axis driven by a real harmonic drive.  (Well it is raining and can't
cast).  So I have drawn up the face plate adaptor and that looks to be a
pretty easy LCNC project for the mill plus a bit of lathe work.
> 
> However, I foolishly did not order a collet wrench.  This seems to 
> overall be a pretty easy CNC project with the exception of the 'teeth' 
> that engage the collet.  I suppose I could mill out the profiles in some
oil hardening steel, then file the teeth to have straight edges.  Finally
harden it.
> 
> Alternatively make it out of 1/4" or so steel plate (or even 
> aluminium) and drill and tap holes for screws to protrude out where the
teeth are.  Turn down the screw ends to be smooth or even square and lock
the screws in place.
> 
> Looking for suggestions here.  Don't really want to wait 2 months for 
> one wrench with either low price and horrendous shipping or high price and
low shipping.  Cost ends up being the same at about $28.
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

[ken.strauss]

https://www.amazon.ca/ER-32UM-Spanner-Precision-Milling-Clamping/dp/B089RXC7K1 
ca$18.50 delivered tomorrow.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 12, 2022 3:48 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] ER-32 Collet Wrench

So my Collet chuck arrived a week or so ago.  Today the ER-32 collet set 
arrived.  I no longer have an excuse for not completing my 4th axis driven by a 
real harmonic drive.  (Well it is raining and can't cast).  So I have drawn up 
the face plate adaptor and that looks to be a pretty easy LCNC project for the 
mill plus a bit of lathe work.
 
However, I foolishly did not order a collet wrench.  This seems to overall be a 
pretty easy CNC project with the exception of the 'teeth' that engage the 
collet.  I suppose I could mill out the profiles in some oil hardening steel, 
then file the teeth to have straight edges.  Finally harden it.
 
Alternatively make it out of 1/4" or so steel plate (or even aluminium) and 
drill and tap holes for screws to protrude out where the teeth are.  Turn down 
the screw ends to be smooth or even square and lock the screws in place.
 
Looking for suggestions here.  Don't really want to wait 2 months for one 
wrench with either low price and horrendous shipping or high price and low 
shipping.  Cost ends up being the same at about $28.
 
Thanks,
John



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[Emc-users] Jog while paused

[ken.strauss]

I would like to be able to jog while a stop or pallet change command
(M00/M01/M60) is active. This has been discussed several times on this list
and the LinuxCNC list but I can't find a resolution other than "it doesn't
work" or use "run from here". Am I missing a simple workaround? 

In case  you are curious, I would like to be able to automatically position
over a hole to be tapped, pause, manually adjust a spring loaded tap guide
in Z, hand tap the hole and then press Cycle Start to continue to the next
hole.

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: December 12, 2021 4:50 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] making post square.

On Sun, 12 Dec, 2021 at 4:26 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:
 

To: enhanced machine controller (emc)
On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 12:39 PM Gene Heskett
mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net>> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Dec, 2021 at 2:54 PM, Chris Albertson < 
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> To: enhanced machine controller (emc)
> I'm surprised that people don't use kinematics to remove the residual
> alignment errors that can't be mechanically removed.   Of course, you
can't
> remove tool orientation errors this way.   If the z-axis is a few
> milliradians "off" the tool will also be "off" but kinematics can 
> compensate for the X, Y error associated with variable Z movement.
>
> That said, I can't measure this kind of low-level stuff so I don't 
> worry about it.
>
> You should be able to lead the Z- column over at 45 degrees and still 
> hit X, Y point spot on. (it would work only for a spherical tool)
>
>
>
> If it was moveable Chris,  but its not, the column is fixed, but the 
> head can be


No, you never want to do that.


Why not? I needed to drill and rigid tap a motor shaft to pulley joint,
positioning the two holes half in the motor shaft, half in the pulley then
fill the holes with 

4mm metric screws to key the normally screwed on pulley to the shaft. I had 

done similarly to a 1 horse treadmill motor on my 7x12 but Jons pwm-servo
driver can be quite brutal and powdered the grub screws I put in for keys on
the first motor. I used solid screws for the 2nd one, and softened up the
control 

rates, and its now worked for about 6 years. That switch to using the x axis
for rigid tapping bypassed this leaning tower of pizza post, and cut perfect
4mm threads, 

much more precisely than I could do using the leaning z axis.


  My point was that there could be an absurd amount of error and you should
still be able to work with it by telling the kinematics system the column
meets the Y axis at 89.9 degrees.


Its worse than that, if the head is trammed to the table, and you want to
drill all the way thru a tap hat slug with a 7/32 drill, its bending the
drill bit visibly sideways by the time the hole is 3/4" deep in a 1.25" slug
of brass. Way out of tram, but its not.



  I'd think
we are talking arc minutes at most here for a real milling machine.   But
there are home-made CNC machine made with rails mounted to a plywood base.

BTW, even with the 0.1-degree error, you still have good accuracy with
realistic Z-axis moves.

>
> rotated 90 degrees either way and I have several times. That works 
> quite well.
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] ER32 collet chuck

[ken.strauss]

I assume that you meant "ER40". I use one of these on my Myford lathe (not 
CNC!):
https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Collets/ER-Lathe-Collet-Chucks/ER40-Lathe-Collet-Chucks

There are many other vendors charging more and less. Searching eBay for "lathe 
collet chuck" will get dozens of hits such as 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/184103307906.

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: December 7, 2021 5:52 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER32 collet chuck

On Tue, 7 Dec, 2021 at 5:39 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
 

To: enhanced machine controller (emc)
I'm thinking of ordering one of these for my 4th axis so that I can finally get 
LCNC to do more than just demonstrate that I can rotate it under computer 
control.  It appears to fit the same registration as the smaller 3 jaw chucks 
so a face plate that can register it or the chucks would be in order.

Good idea?  Or don't go that way…

It does look quite useful, link? And is it made in ER42?



Thanks John.
-- 

"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com
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Re: [Emc-users] ER32 collet chuck

[ken.strauss]

My 4th axis has a MT2 so I use a MT2 to ER40 adapter. Something like 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/224459288505 although I don't recall the source and 
definitely have no opinion on that particular vendor. It centers within a 
couple of thou with no adjustment required. It is secured into the MT2 socket 
using a long SHCS from the back. The additional protrusion from the face of the 
rotary table is a plus to provide additional clearance.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: December 7, 2021 5:37 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] ER32 collet chuck

I'm thinking of ordering one of these for my 4th axis so that I can finally get 
LCNC to do more than just demonstrate that I can rotate it under computer 
control.  It appears to fit the same registration as the smaller 3 jaw chucks 
so a face plate that can register it or the chucks would be in order.
 
Good idea?  Or don't go that way…
 

 
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com 
 



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Re: [Emc-users] Closed loop control of air motors.

[ken.strauss]

Rather than the hard to control air wrench have you considered using a small DC 
motor with an encoder and gear reduction? Some years ago there was a lengthy 
series of posts on CNCZONE about such a system.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: November 21, 2021 2:41 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Closed loop control of air motors.

Has anyone ever tried any sort of closed loop control of an air motor similar 
the one on this butterfly impact wrench.
https://www.penntoolco.com/52-424-9/
In order to not have both the TTS and R8 collet drop out of the spindle I'd 
like to be able to limit the number of turns to 2.  
 
What I've found however, is that 10mS pulses to the valve supplying air for CCW 
rotation barely move it until it's unloaded and then it immediately spins up 
very fast and does at least 4 to 8 turns.  That's way too many.
 
I've only got a one pulse per rev hall sensor detecting a magnet on the socket. 
 But I suspect between reaction time of the valve, the compressibility of air 
and the rotary inertia of the motor that unless there is some sort of constant 
load that control is pretty well impossible.
 
With servos, if the motor is loaded and then suddenly totally unloaded, it too 
might turn a number of revolutions before the control system could bring it 
back down to the original speed.
 
Short of adding some sort of mechanical brake am I trying to do the impossible? 
 Oh and to avoid another 1000 words to explain I've added a picture.
John
  



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Re: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

[ken.strauss]

I'm unsure of commercial machines but I use only a foot switch on my
Tormach. That frees both hands to remove/insert the tool.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: November 14, 2021 12:59 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Power Draw Bar

Quick question.
 
On commercial machines that have buttons to load or unload the tool by
actuating the drawbar how are the buttons arranged?
 
Are there two?  One for Load and one for Unload?  Are they arranged
vertically or horizontally? 
 
If vertically does the upper one load or unload?  If horizontally does the
one on the right load or unload?
 
Thanks
John
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Square holes

[ken.strauss]

I couldn't think of the name. Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: Ralph Stirling  
Sent: September 20, 2021 2:53 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Square holes

That's Sam Sokolik's specialty.  He has a number of amazing youtube videos
of his experiments.  Here is his channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/samcoinc/videos

-- Ralph

From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [ken.stra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2021 11:38 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: [Emc-users] Square holes

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email
system.


Recently (a nebulous concept as one gets older) there was a thread about
milling square and other shaped holes using synchronized motion of the
spindle and X/Y. I tried searching the list archive but am obviously not
using the right search terms. Help, please?



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[Emc-users] Square holes

[ken.strauss]

Recently (a nebulous concept as one gets older) there was a thread about
milling square and other shaped holes using synchronized motion of the
spindle and X/Y. I tried searching the list archive but am obviously not
using the right search terms. Help, please?



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Re: [Emc-users] Debugging Python under LinuxCNC

[ken.strauss]

Hopefully not to completely hijack this thread but...

I am working on a project that will use a Pi Pico interfaced to LinuxCNC.
Are there any debugging tools for microPython?

-Original Message-
From: Fox Mulder  
Sent: September 14, 2021 1:27 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Debugging Python under LinuxCNC

That's not true for Python development in general. If you develop a
standalone Python program you can use IDEs with all their features like
breakpoints and show/edit variable contents etc. :)

The problem starts if the python program is called from another program
which is not attached to the debugger. In most cases the IDE can't attach to
this python instance and therefor can't be used. Debugging like in the old
days with print or better a logging system is still the best way. But this
is the same for C/C++ or other programs which are executed from another
program outside the IDE.

Am 14.09.21 um 19:06 schrieb John Dammeyer:
> I'm more used to working with program development systems that have
breakpoints, allow single stepping through assembly code and examining
variable values and even processor registers.  Working with Python is like
writing in BASIC with the Radio Shack TRS80 home computer.   I've gone back
to the dark ages...

Ciao,
  Rainer


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Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

[ken.strauss]

I think that you are missing the point. There MIGHT be something offensive and 
we have to be prepared to deal with a transgression. It's called being 
"proactive".

More seriously and without my stupid PC hat on, such rules are completely 
unneeded and offensive!

-Original Message-
From: Scott Harwell via Emc-users  
Sent: July 22, 2021 10:29 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Scott Harwell 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

 I'm a little slow on some of this. Could someone give me an example of a 
"rules violation" please refer to an actual post. I read every email and every 
recent topic post. In my unenlightened position I can't think of anything in 
the last year that I have seen that was offensive. 

Scott H


On Thursday, July 22, 2021, 4:38:08 AM CDT, Valerio Bellizzomi 
 wrote:  
 
 I am making a big effort to understand why people is so adverse to rules. 
Every project on sourceforge/github has to follow rules of the site, and some 
projects have their own CoC.
If you agreed to behave correctly before, the CoC should not affect you, unless 
you want to misbehave now.



On Thu, 2021-07-22 at 03:02 -0400, Bruce Layne wrote:
> The "discussion" is apparently over and we still have the Code of 
> Conduct.
> 
> https://linuxcnc.org/CODE_OF_CONDUCT
> 
> It wasn't much of a discussion.  Questions were asked but there were 
> no meaningful answers.
> 
> At the risk of offending any programmers in the LinuxCNC community by 
> appropriating programmer culture, here is my pseudo code for the 
> LinuxCNC Code of Conduct Fait Accompli:
> 
> 
> 01  IMPOSE CODE OF CONDUCT ON LINUXCNC COMMUNITY
> 02  IF COMPLAINTS > 0 THEN GOTO 02
> 03  END
> 
> 
> All of the complaints by those who didn't feel a code of conduct was 
> needed have apparently now concluded and those who wanted a code of 
> conduct to regulate other people's behavior have won without ever 
> engaging on the issues... without ever justifying why their code of 
> conduct was needed, without explaining what event might have 
> precipitated the rules imposed on others, etc.
> 
> There was no need to explain who would decide what is "disinformation"
> or "conspiracy theories", or who would decide what is "other conduct 
> which could reasonably be considered inappropriate", or who would 
> decide what is "inappropriate language" or "inappropriate images".  
> There was no need to explain why the Code of Conduct was required when 
> there were no hostile comments on this group until the Code of Conduct 
> caused all of the recent animosity, resulting in exactly what it 
> purported to prevent.
> 
> One of the things I liked about LinuxCNC was that it was a community 
> effort.  Certainly there are a core group of contributors (greatly 
> appreciated), but nobody was perceived as being in charge.  There was 
> a spontaneous order arising from mutual cooperation.  This open source 
> community functioned very well without a lot of rules, and certainly 
> without any rulers.  I no longer feel that way.  At best, rather than 
> everyone behaving with courtesy and respect toward others because it's 
> the right thing to do, it now feels like coerced behavior.  I now feel 
> that this community is under the rule of unelected and as yet unnamed 
> rulers.
> 
> The process was so opaque that I still don't know if one person 
> unilaterally enacted the Code of Conduct, or was there some oligarchy 
> that made the decision after a secret discussion?
> 
> When someone violates one of the subjective rules in the new Code of 
> Conduct, will we then learn who the rulers are... or at least who the 
> enforcers are?  Or will dissidents be quietly disappeared in the 
> middle of the night?
> 
> An open source community that has always operated on mutual consent is 
> now operating under dictatorial decree with all objections ignored and 
> unanswered.  I think that's very sad.
> 
> I don't like the subjective rules in the Code of Conduct.  They seem 
> politically motivated and the vague rules can be selectively enforced.
> I also feel that the Code of Conduct will cause problems rather than 
> preventing problems.  That concern seems warranted based on the 
> hostile arguments we've already suffered as a direct result of the 
> Code of Conduct.  Mostly, I didn't like the way the Code of Conduct 
> was unilaterally decreed without discussion, and when a few people 
> tried to initiate a discussion, they were ignored by the person who 
> posted the Code of Conduct.  I'm left with the feeling that there 
> wasn't any explanation for why the Code of Conduct was needed because 
> there wasn't an actual need to regulate the behavior of a group that 
> has been self regulated for decades.  The Code of Conduct couldn't be 
> justified, so there was no effort to justify it.  If there was an 
> actual need, why wasn't there a discussion that led to community 
> standards that were established by the community?  That would have 

Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[ken.strauss]

Indeed! Two (or even many wrongs don't make a right.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Wendt  
Sent: July 18, 2021 5:12 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

I didn't ask if it was commonplace. I asked if you agreed with everything in
it. Just because something may be commonplace doesn't necessarily mean its
good.

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 16:34 Feral Engineer 
wrote:

> i just glanced at it again, it's pretty commonplace. Unless all of the 
> admins all agree to enforce the code, it's pretty much going to be 
> handled by an army of one and forgotten about the second people stop 
> feeding into it negatively.
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
>
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 4:20 PM Mark Wendt  wrote:
>
> > It's still a topic because the Code is still up. Do you agree with 
> > everything included in the Code?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 15:47 Feral Engineer 
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I find it hard to believe that this is still a topic of discussion.
> > Simply
> > > put, just don't be a jerk. Done. Move on with your day.
> > >
> > > Back to vinyl siding for me...
> > >
> > > Phil T.
> > > The Feral Engineer
> > >
> > > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics 
> > > at www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> > >
> > > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 3:29 PM Mark Wendt  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Since we're not signing up new members by the dozens, and the 
> > > > vast
> > > majority
> > > > of the group has been on this list for ages, grandfathering 
> > > > everybody
> > > makes
> > > > the CoC rather pointless don't you think? Perhaps even more so 
> > > > than
> it
> > > > already is?
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 14:39 Stuart Stevenson 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Gentlemen,
> > > > > Heh - seems to me a LARGE portion of the group should be
> > grandfathered
> > > in
> > > > > with any COC not applying to participants not having agreed to 
> > > > > work
> > > under
> > > > > any COC restrictions or guidelines. Going forward agreement to 
> > > > > be
> > bound
> > > > by
> > > > > the COC could be made a part of the process welcoming new
> > participants.
> > > > > Retroactive agreement could be agreed to on a voluntary 
> > > > > participant
> > by
> > > > > participant basis.
> > > > > I don't recall seeing a complaint process to report offenders.
> > > > > There could possibly be a couple more unintended consequences
> hiding
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > weeds. :)
> > > > > Just thinking out loud (or thinking while typing) You cannot 
> > > > > imagine how long it took to type this. I can think and I
> > can
> > > > > type but combining the two abuses my backspace button.
> > > > > regards
> > > > > Stuart
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 1:23 PM Gene Heskett 
> > > > >  >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sunday 18 July 2021 14:08:02 Stuart Stevenson wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who is the sheriff?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess it was Jeff Epler who wrote it up, but I don't know 
> > > > > > if
> > there
> > > > is a
> > > > > > designated sheriff.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 9:37 AM fxkl47BF via Emc-users <
> > > > > > [...]
> > > > > > > > > The COC appears to be a compilation of what everyone 
> > > > > > > > > on the
> > > list
> > > > > > > > > has been doing all along. Therefore, Jeff's comment, 
> > > > > > > > > "a non-event", is
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > appropriate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > it's "a non-event" until the sheriff bans you
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > > > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > > > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > > > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > > respectable.
> > > > > >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > > > > Genes Web page 
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Addressee is the intended audience.
> > > > > If you are not the addressee then my consent is not given for 
> > > > > you
> to
> > > read
> > > > > this email furthermore it is my wish you would close this 
> > > > > without
> > > saving
> > > > or
> > > > > reading, and cease and desist from saving or opening my 
> > > > > private correspondence.
> > > > > Thank you for honoring my wish.
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[ken.strauss]

I've never used any form taps from KBC but R is a known brand. You'd think
that a tap without flutes would be cheaper!

Remember to drill the hole oversize. For example,
https://www.natool.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/tapdrillsizes-inmet_web_ca
tp113-116.pdf) suggests a #1 rather than #7 drill for a 1/4-20 tap. You'll
also need more spindle torque than with a cutting tap.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 10, 2021 8:07 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

Looks like KBCTools has a few at reasonable prices
https://www.kbctools.ca/products/search/?Keyword=thread%20forming%20tap

Inexpensive KBC brand
https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/1-363A-0326


They also have a brand name at quite a bit more.
https://www.kbctools.ca/itemdetail/16B-1420-03B


John

> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-10-21 4:46 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> The one in the picture came from Fastenal. When they discontinued 
> selling them and had them on clearance I purchased their inventory of 
> 8-32 and 4-40 taps. I scored a good supply of Balax
(https://www.balax.com/) 2-56 taps from a local flea market. I don't think
the seller understood taps without flutes!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: July 10, 2021 6:07 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> Where did you get your forming taps?
> 
> I just ran my 10-32 into a casting remnant.  I keep the risers and turn
them round for bar stock.In this case a solid coupler.
> Clamp in vise, used LED touch sensor to determine center point between 
> vise jaws and edge of piece.  Move over 1/2" , spot, drill and then use
LCNC to power tap.
> 
> Why is this one different from the last exmaple?  Because I loaded the 
> 'B' version of the BIT file into the 7i92 and changed the HAL file so 
> it wouldn't complain that DB25-5 was not available as an output (now
stepgen5 DIR) instead of an output connected to DIR for PWM.  Change the Pn
parameter in the servo to use step/dir instead of 0-10V,IN3 for velocity and
direction.
> 
> The odd thing compared to my test bench setup was that I had to change 
> the sign of the STEP_SCALE to negative to make the spindle motor turn
clockwise.
> 
> I then asked it to turn 400 RPM and looked at what the encoder reported
for the spindle.   Divide the encoder RPM into 400 and
> multiply the STEP_SCALE by that to set up the pulley ratio since they
aren't quite the same diameter.  Now RPM is really close and
> tapping starts immediately.   No PID needed.
> 
> Freakin awesome!
> John
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-10-21 2:35 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> >
> > I haven't been following this thread too closely but why not use 
> > thread forming taps? They work great in ductile materials such as 
> > aluminum and there is no problem with chip clearing since there are 
> > no chips. Just be sure that you drill the right size hole according 
> > to the tap manufacturer's material (somewhat larger hole than for a
normal tap).
> >
> > On the idea that without a picture it didn't happen, see 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmvkC3tOQw
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > Sent: July 10, 2021 3:08 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > I've got some really cheap metric ones coming from amazon.  Just for 
> > aluminium castings and to play with.
> > John
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: July-10-21 10:39 AM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> > >
> > > I think that is a spiral point tap.
> > > The flute is straight along the length of the tap then the flute 
> > > is is ground deeper toward the backside of the cutting edge.
> > >
> > > AutomationDirect.com sells some really nice taps for reasonable
amounts.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/9/2021 8:32 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > The saying we have on another group is if there aren't pictures 
> > > > it didn't happen.  I hand held the camera so depth of field is 
> > > > out a
> > > little on the 10-32 screw head and the macro lens is bad for depth 
> > > of
> > field as it is.
> > > >
> > > > Short G-Code 200 RPM tapping into really soft aluminium trimmed 
> > > > off an old box or something.  Not sure if this classifies as a 
> > > > spiral
> > > tip tap but even a forming tap would have pushing this soft metal
around.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/Tapping10-32.jpg
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[ken.strauss]

The one in the picture came from Fastenal. When they discontinued selling them 
and had them on clearance I purchased their inventory of 8-32 and 4-40 taps. I 
scored a good supply of Balax (https://www.balax.com/) 2-56 taps from a local 
flea market. I don't think the seller understood taps without flutes!

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 10, 2021 6:07 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

Where did you get your forming taps?

I just ran my 10-32 into a casting remnant.  I keep the risers and turn them 
round for bar stock.In this case a solid coupler.
Clamp in vise, used LED touch sensor to determine center point between vise 
jaws and edge of piece.  Move over 1/2" , spot, drill and then use LCNC to 
power tap.

Why is this one different from the last exmaple?  Because I loaded the 'B' 
version of the BIT file into the 7i92 and changed the HAL file so it wouldn't 
complain that DB25-5 was not available as an output (now stepgen5 DIR) instead 
of an output connected to DIR for PWM.  Change the Pn parameter in the servo to 
use step/dir instead of 0-10V,IN3 for velocity and direction.

The odd thing compared to my test bench setup was that I had to change the sign 
of the STEP_SCALE to negative to make the spindle motor turn clockwise.   

I then asked it to turn 400 RPM and looked at what the encoder reported for the 
spindle.   Divide the encoder RPM into 400 and multiply the STEP_SCALE by that 
to set up the pulley ratio since they aren't quite the same diameter.  Now RPM 
is really close and tapping starts immediately.   No PID needed.

Freakin awesome!
John



> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-10-21 2:35 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> I haven't been following this thread too closely but why not use 
> thread forming taps? They work great in ductile materials such as 
> aluminum and there is no problem with chip clearing since there are no 
> chips. Just be sure that you drill the right size hole according to 
> the tap manufacturer's material (somewhat larger hole than for a normal tap).
> 
> On the idea that without a picture it didn't happen, see 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmvkC3tOQw
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: July 10, 2021 3:08 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> Thanks.
> I've got some really cheap metric ones coming from amazon.  Just for 
> aluminium castings and to play with.
> John
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-10-21 10:39 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> >
> > I think that is a spiral point tap.
> > The flute is straight along the length of the tap then the flute is 
> > is ground deeper toward the backside of the cutting edge.
> >
> > AutomationDirect.com sells some really nice taps for reasonable amounts.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 7/9/2021 8:32 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > The saying we have on another group is if there aren't pictures it 
> > > didn't happen.  I hand held the camera so depth of field is out a
> > little on the 10-32 screw head and the macro lens is bad for depth 
> > of
> field as it is.
> > >
> > > Short G-Code 200 RPM tapping into really soft aluminium trimmed 
> > > off an old box or something.  Not sure if this classifies as a 
> > > spiral
> > tip tap but even a forming tap would have pushing this soft metal around.
> > >
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/Tapping10-32.jpg
> > >
> > > John Dammeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[ken.strauss]

I haven't been following this thread too closely but why not use thread
forming taps? They work great in ductile materials such as aluminum and
there is no problem with chip clearing since there are no chips. Just be
sure that you drill the right size hole according to the tap manufacturer's
material (somewhat larger hole than for a normal tap).

On the idea that without a picture it didn't happen, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmvkC3tOQw

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 10, 2021 3:08 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

Thanks.
I've got some really cheap metric ones coming from amazon.  Just for
aluminium castings and to play with.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-10-21 10:39 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> I think that is a spiral point tap.
> The flute is straight along the length of the tap then the flute is is 
> ground deeper toward the backside of the cutting edge.
> 
> AutomationDirect.com sells some really nice taps for reasonable amounts.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> On 7/9/2021 8:32 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > The saying we have on another group is if there aren't pictures it 
> > didn't happen.  I hand held the camera so depth of field is out a
> little on the 10-32 screw head and the macro lens is bad for depth of
field as it is.
> >
> > Short G-Code 200 RPM tapping into really soft aluminium trimmed off 
> > an old box or something.  Not sure if this classifies as a spiral
> tip tap but even a forming tap would have pushing this soft metal around.
> >
> > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleControl/Tapping10-32.jpg
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

[ken.strauss]

I've successfully used metric (M4) spiral point YG-1 taps from Amazon.ca.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 7, 2021 8:52 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

Well in that case it's cheaper than the Swiss one. What I have found so far
is that the cheap metric  tap+die+handle was fine for the occasional hole
but really garbage for anything else.  I'm definitely headed in the
direction that the quality of the threaded hole is directly due to the
quality of the tap (or die).

I've ordered one of each of 10-24, 1/4-20 and 3/8-16.  Need to find some
reasonable metric ones yet too.

Give the last few days anguishing over HAL file parameters and Break Out
Board issues the experiment this afternoon watching the tap thread was quite
a treat.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gerrit Visser [mailto:gerr...@psgv.ca]
> Sent: July-07-21 5:21 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping
> 
> YG-1 is hardly no-name.
> 
> https://www.yg1.kr/main.asp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gerrit
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: July 7, 2021 7:37 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping
> 
> It's an Amazon Prime product so shipping is free but yes, in Canadian 
> $ half the price of the Swiss one and probably should be 1/4 the price
since it's no name.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

[ken.strauss]

Delrin is more forgiving than aluminum and machinable wax is even more so.
At $10-20 per tap it is something to consider when testing.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 7, 2021 6:06 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

As I get closer to being able to try power tapping I'm wondering if this
sort of tap is suitable?
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00F8T55GC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3
 
Or is it garbage that will break in aluminium castings or mild steel on the
first try?  
 
I'm at the point with encoder feedback that the spindle is at the desired
speed and with setp spindle-near-speed.difference 0.1
 
and some PID tuning it's up to speed pretty quickly and seems reasonably
stable.
 
Running a simple dry run tapping test it appears to behave.  I'm tempted to
try it in a piece of soft wood.
 
g20 g64 g90
(Speed and feedrate )
s100 m3
F5
(Tapping)
G0 X1 Y1 z1
G0 Z0.1
G33.1 Z-0.5 K0.05
G0 Z1
G0 X1.25 Y1.25
M5
M2
%
 
 
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com 
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

[ken.strauss]

Perhaps just say "NO!" to such silliness? I have been on this mailing list for 
years and don't recall any instances of bad behaviour. I only very occasionally 
know enough about a topic to contribute but I've been delighted with the help 
received for my questions. Keep things as they are!

-Original Message-
From: fxkl47BF via Emc-users  
Sent: June 29, 2021 8:14 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\) 
Cc: fxkl47BF 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Code of Conduct

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Tuesday, June 29th, 2021 at 3:52 AM, Robert Murphy  
wrote:

> I have a feeling that there is a boiler plate/template for the Code of 
> Conduct.
> Rumours abound relating to projects being forced to have one.

have one or be labeled non-conformist and be boycotted


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

[ken.strauss]

With the demise of Sears, the new term is "Chinese horsepower". They have
smaller horses...

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: June 27, 2021 1:54 PM
To: 'fxkl47BF' ; 'Enhanced Machine Controller
(EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain

Your engine might be rated at what we used to call 'Sears Horsepower' where
their compressors had 4HP rated motors for 115VAC 15A circuit which isn't
possible of course.  They'd rate the max surge current for a few
milliseconds I think.

Anyway, your alternator is rated at 2200 RPM for max current.  Without
knowing your engine RPM it's hard to compare but 1:2 is likely too high for
this alternator.  And if you slow down the engine to 1100 RPM to create 2200
RPM you won't get the rated power.   I'd go the other direction with 2:1 or
even 3:1 depending on what max engine RPM is.  

The systems I've designed that used a 10KW ONAN genset created 110VAC into
an 80A charger.  And even then I could control the charger to limit charge
current which in turn limited load on the generator.

You will find even with sealed lead acid batteries that the max current will
only be there for a very short time so trying to achieve that level of power
output for charging is likely not needed.  Lithiums are a different story.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: fxkl47BF via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: June-27-21 7:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Cc: fxkl47BF
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: power, horsepower, and a bad brain
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 8:07 AM, fxkl47BF 
wrote:
> 
> > --- Original Message ---
> >
> > On Sunday, June 27th, 2021 at 7:19 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com
wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 12:44, fxkl47BF via Emc-users
> > >
> > > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > all of my feeble calculations led me to believe that a 6.5 hp 
> > > > gasoline engine was more than enough to power a 220 amp 12 volt
> alternator. either my 6.5 hp engine is more feeble than my brain or my
calculations are way off.
> > > >
> > > > 220A x 12V = 2.640kW = 3.5hp. So it should be able to manage it.
> > > >
> > > > You might need to look at the pulley ratios. Do you have a 
> > > > performance
> > > >
> > > > curve for the engine and the alternator? You need to consider 
> > > > the
> > > >
> > > > relative torques for your chosen speed.
> 
> i have about a 2:1 increase belt drive i was running the engine at 
> full speed
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen for LinuxCNC

[ken.strauss]

I've been using this with PathPilot since 2015:
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B004C4WTJA/ 
No problems.

-Original Message-
From: Gerrit Visser  
Sent: June 1, 2021 7:22 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Touch screen for LinuxCNC

I bought this last month for use with Pathpilot. Works great. Resistive
touch so not sensitive to wet fingers.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B083WF327D
CA$250 plus HST

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: June 1, 2021 7:07 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] Touch screen for LinuxCNC

If I wanted to set up a Pi4 with LinuxCNC and a touch screen is there any
particular one that jumps out as the best solution?
 
And with an LCD display/touch screen other than 'axis' what is a more usable
screen?
 
Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Maybe a minimally printed harmonic drive?

[ken.strauss]

I haven't been following your project recently but am intrigued by "And it
turns the armature easy enough the 3NM 3 phase motor (those are magic folks,
running 50C cooler than 2 phase stuff) I'll use will not be a bit
overstressed." Where did you end up getting your motors and what are you
using for drivers?

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: April 30, 2021 10:45 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Maybe a minimally printed harmonic drive?

On Monday 22 March 2021 09:19:19 Sam Sokolik wrote:

> 202,200 for the outside spline and the flex gear is 200.  In this 
> situation - the 202 tooth spline is stationary to the stepper.  The
> 200 tooth outside spline is mounted to the faceplate.  In this layout
> - the ratio apears to be 101:1
>
> In this situation the stepper motor and the face plate spin the same 
> direction.
>
> With the same set of outside spines swapped - the ratio is 100:1
>
> I am sure Andy can explain it.  It doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Happy with runout...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLyP2YwdstQ
>
> sam
I am running some behind you Sam, with my project, having printer problems
kills time and money. Finally settled on an ender 5 Plus, which is working
passably well but I've wasted $3k getting there.

Any way, I changed the design some from yours, to a 30/1 because those big
spines print better, and by making my own bearings in openscad, useing
crosman bb's for balls. I put a huge one with over 150 loose bb's directly
on the outside of the moving spline, with only the lip of the output
coupling disc (printed of course) interposed. And the floating spline has 3
more of those, sized for a good friction fit inside that spline, with both
the spline and the bearings made as thin as practical to improve the flex
life, and I just took the eliptical armature off the build plate and wiggled
in into those 3 bearings inside the loose spline, so thats the driver
armature, no commercial ball bearings anyplace like yours.  I've made the
8mm hole in the plastic for the motor shaft into a prominent D-flat, and
used a cbn wheel to make the flat much wider on the motor shaft, and this
armature will be driven onto the motor shaft without any grub screws at all.
No clue how long it will run before it bores that hole out and I have to
make an alu inner for it. :(

But I just now assembled it without the motor, turning the armature by hand,
and it works, with no detectable backlash. And it turns the armature easy
enough the 3NM 3 phase motor (those are magic folks, running 50C cooler than
2 phase stuff) I'll use will not be a bit overstressed.  Those bb's will
pound the plastic smooth and get smoother with use.

So now its time to finish the output shaft, and make the rest of the
housing. Which will be supported by the big bearing at the spline end, and 4
of the printed bearings at the load end. I've got the motor end gnawed out
of some 1" stock I had, and I bought a foot of 3.125" thick by 6" wide stuff
so I can make 2 output housings. That showed me the current price for
extruded alu, scary. I also bought enough rod to make about 4 output shafts,
over $200. And I've a spare 4" chuck from a TLM upgrade to a 5" to use on
it. Or better yet, buy another 5" from LMS.  
So I'll get there, if I don't fall over first. At my age, thats always a
possibility.

I'll try to get some pix of what I've got so far, put up on my web page over
the weekend. Along with some of the openscad source files.

As usual, this stuff keeps me alone, safe, and out of the bars. :-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Internal Gears

[ken.strauss]

I believe that someone on this list was recently looking for small internal
gears. A large selection is available for semi-reasonable prices at
https://qtcgears.com/products/internalgears.php I have no connection with
this company nor any knowledge of the quality of their products. Google
found them while I was looking for something else.



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Re: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

[ken.strauss]

You mean such as:
https://www.moonsindustries.com/p/nema-17-smooth-hybrid-stepper-motors/17hc2
005n-0460015028
and
https://www.globalsources.com/Three-phase-motor/nema-17-stepper-motor-118013
1693p.htm#1180131693

https://www.mygwek.com/index.php?main_page=product_info_id=650125

What are you using for your driver?
If you try one please let us know how the 3-phase works!

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: March 21, 2021 1:11 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] openscad to normal gcode converter?

Greetings all;

What do we have that can convert a .stl file into gcode for a mill or a
lathe?

I think I have the 4 internal pieces ready to install in some sort of a
housing, so I ordered a couple hacksaw blades for my bandsaw and bought some
2" thick alu bar for the output side of this thing.

I have some 1" that will make the input half of the housing, make it up
square so I'll have room for corner bolts to mount it with. But with the
need for 2 bearings on the output, seperated by enough space to be rigid,
I'll do it from 2" stock. But I think I'd like to make 2, one small enough
to drive with a nema 17. But I'll need to make a metal armature for that
because these 85 oz 17's I have run pretty hot. Too hot for plastic bearing
carriers. So far I haven't stumbled over a 3 phase nema 17, yet. But I keep
looking.

Now that I have at least a Mr so and so familiarity with openscad, no means
an expert, I think I'd like to see about drawing the housing parts up in
openscad, and possibly generating some gcode from its .stl output.

Can pycam do that?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Trying to power up my little PCB mill

[ken.strauss]

"Shuttering" is a frequent symptom of a mis-wired motor. Are all three
motors wired identically? Check the cables!

-Original Message-
From: Alan Condit  
Sent: March 19, 2021 6:21 PM
To: Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Trying to power up my little PCB mill

I finally got my PCB mill all wired up and I started with the stepconf
configuration that works with my X2 mill.
Neither the X axis or the Z axis work. They just shudder. However, the Y
axis works fine it will do 180 ipm. So I took the stepper off of the X axis
to see if it would turn by itself and it would not. It just shuddered. So I
took the motor off the Y axis and put it on the X to see if it would work
and no joy. It just shuddered. So just to check things out I put the motor
from the X axis on the Y axis and guess what it worked fine.

All three axis are using 5 tpi ball screws and linear rails. When I turn the
X axis screw by itself it seems to move freely enough. The stepper motors
are from Automation Direct and are 425oz/in motors so they should have
enough power. I am using new/old Superior stepper drivers but they drive the
X2 mill just fine.

Any suggestions in where to go from here?

Thanks,
Alan

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Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

[ken.strauss]

Watch https://youtu.be/kwLydF4osc4 for an approach that I'm currently
playing with to reduce probe breakage .

-Original Message-
From: Gerrit Visser  
Sent: March 14, 2021 4:33 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

I am still at the 'tooling breakage' stage of cnc. So far only 1 Aliexpress
tip broken (CA$12 cost). I have some more on the way because I expect it
won't be the last broken one.
I have 2 Renishaw TP2's, they are surviving my inexperience so far. M2
threads.
Renishaw makes a sacrificial breakaway adapter, essentially a short piece of
material with a groove. Male and female M4 threads at opposite ends. It
however costs more than you were spending on just the probe.

Ken, this might be an option to try?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001421085958.html . If you make the
breakaway adapter then the more plentiful choices of M2 and M2.5 threaded
ones can come into play as well.

gerrit


-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@gmail.com  
Sent: March 14, 2021 3:37 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

Yes, I use standard 4mm screw probes. Perhaps us$50 is "reasonable" but I'm
just a hobbyist/retiree and I find that breakage due to stupidity annoying.
I'd rather spend a similar amount on a decent bottle of wine!





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Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

[ken.strauss]

I don't think that I can afford the probe so please don't misrepresent me as a 
potential customer. Of course his tool height setter is reasonably priced. I'm 
interested in the basic design and accuracy achieved including lobing errors. 
Plus, any technical details that he is willing to reveal!

-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer  
Sent: March 14, 2021 3:54 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

I hear ya. I get pissed when I make an expensive bonehead move, also.

I contacted the mfr and he wants to know what other information you would like 
to know, so he can put together a data sheet for you.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 3:39 PM  wrote:

> Yes, I use standard 4mm screw probes. Perhaps us$50 is "reasonable" 
> but I'm just a hobbyist/retiree and I find that breakage due to 
> stupidity annoying. I'd rather spend a similar amount on a decent bottle of 
> wine!
>
> Their probes look gorgeous but technical information on their website 
> is sparse. I'm interested in any information on their design and 
> particularly, if it is patented, the patent number. I'm intrigued by 
> probe designs and have built experimental units using strain gages, 
> FSR (Force Sensitive
> Resistors) and...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Feral Engineer 
> Sent: March 14, 2021 3:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.
>
> Hey Ken,
>
> I believe so, but I'll find out from the manufacturer to be absolutely 
> sure.
>
> I'm reference to your other comment about breaking probe stylii, have 
> you checked out fleabay? They seem to have relatively decent priced 
> units
> (40-50usd) if your probe is renishaw or compatible.
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 3:11 PM  wrote:
>
> > Does their probe use the traditional 3-ball/3-groove Renishaw design
> or...?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Feral Engineer 
> > Sent: March 14, 2021 2:22 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.
> >
> > I have a working relationship with emg precision out of the UK. I 
> > will be installing, testing and reviewing one of their ceramic face 
> > fixed tool setters on my YouTube channel soon. They just released a 
> > line of infrared probes, much like renishaw, marposs, heidenhain, m, etc.
> > They will be releasing a wired and RF version soon as well.
> >
> > https://www.emgprecision.com/ifi-p4-touch-probe
> >
> > Phil T.
> > The Feral Engineer
> >
> > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
> > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 2:15 PM andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 at 17:13, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > >  I wonder what the shipping may be, and from where?
> > >
> > > The .by in vers.by and the price in Belarusian Rubles rather 
> > > indicates Belarus.
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils 
> > > and lunatics."
> > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

[ken.strauss]

Yes, I use standard 4mm screw probes. Perhaps us$50 is "reasonable" but I'm 
just a hobbyist/retiree and I find that breakage due to stupidity annoying. I'd 
rather spend a similar amount on a decent bottle of wine!

Their probes look gorgeous but technical information on their website is 
sparse. I'm interested in any information on their design and particularly, if 
it is patented, the patent number. I'm intrigued by probe designs and have 
built experimental units using strain gages, FSR (Force Sensitive Resistors) 
and...

-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer  
Sent: March 14, 2021 3:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

Hey Ken,

I believe so, but I'll find out from the manufacturer to be absolutely sure.

I'm reference to your other comment about breaking probe stylii, have you 
checked out fleabay? They seem to have relatively decent priced units
(40-50usd) if your probe is renishaw or compatible.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 3:11 PM  wrote:

> Does their probe use the traditional 3-ball/3-groove Renishaw design or...?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Feral Engineer 
> Sent: March 14, 2021 2:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.
>
> I have a working relationship with emg precision out of the UK. I will 
> be installing, testing and reviewing one of their ceramic face fixed 
> tool setters on my YouTube channel soon. They just released a line of 
> infrared probes, much like renishaw, marposs, heidenhain, m, etc. 
> They will be releasing a wired and RF version soon as well.
>
> https://www.emgprecision.com/ifi-p4-touch-probe
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 2:15 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 at 17:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > >  I wonder what the shipping may be, and from where?
> >
> > The .by in vers.by and the price in Belarusian Rubles rather 
> > indicates Belarus.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and 
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

[ken.strauss]

Does their probe use the traditional 3-ball/3-groove Renishaw design or...?

-Original Message-
From: Feral Engineer  
Sent: March 14, 2021 2:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

I have a working relationship with emg precision out of the UK. I will be 
installing, testing and reviewing one of their ceramic face fixed tool setters 
on my YouTube channel soon. They just released a line of infrared probes, much 
like renishaw, marposs, heidenhain, m, etc. They will be releasing a wired 
and RF version soon as well.

https://www.emgprecision.com/ifi-p4-touch-probe

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at 
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 2:15 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 at 17:13, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> >  I wonder what the shipping may be, and from where?
>
> The .by in vers.by and the price in Belarusian Rubles rather indicates 
> Belarus.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and 
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

[ken.strauss]

Since we are discussing probes...
I've recently broken several tips due to stupidity/inattention and
replacements are expensive. Has anyone considered a safety breakaway based
on a kinematic coupling with the pre-loading supplied by rare earth magnets?

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: March 14, 2021 1:09 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Probe recommendations.

On Sunday 14 March 2021 06:34:04 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 at 10:07, Gene Heskett 
wrote:
> > > https://vers.by/en/touch-probes/9-vers-pr.html
> >
> > What is this in USD?
>
> It says "355.00 BYN~  10050 RUB,   136 USD,   113 EUR"

I went to the web site, very sparse with its data, but that is a decent
enough price, that I wonder what the shipping may be, and from where?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

[ken.strauss]

I realize that water jet capability has improved over the years but is it
really up to accurately cutting a M0.5 internal gear?
I have made somewhat coarser ring gears by using a 0.03125 diameter endmill
and cutting as a 2.5D job in 5mm Delrin.

-Original Message-
From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users  
Sent: March 11, 2021 1:39 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Cc: Gregg Eshelman 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

Could have it water jet cut on a machine with a tilting head for kerf angle
compensation. Water jet cutters tend to make the exit side of the cut
slightly wider so a 2 axis tilting head can push all that to the waste side.


On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 3:15:07 AM MST, andy pugh
 wrote:  
Cutting internal teeth isn't something that can be done with a hob _or_ an
involute cutter. You need a Fellows gear shaper, or at least to find a way
to set up the equivalent on your CNC mill.
https://youtu.be/72YgpVF4O7g
I don't think it is impossible, with the cutting tool in the rotary axis,
circularly interpolating around the blank.
It might be simpler to order one wire-spark eroded for a one-off or a stock
part from HPC or similar.  
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Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

[ken.strauss]

I believe that wire EDM is the usual way to make small quantities of internal 
(ring) gears. It seems possible that one might imitate a mini-Fellows by moving 
the z-axis up/down to shave the gear. At least some high volume small ring 
gears are made of sintered metal. I don't know your application but have you 
considered commercial ring gears? Many electric drills/screwdrivers use a 
planetary gear train. Also, Chinese gearhead motors may be a cost-effective way 
to get the needed parts.

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: March 11, 2021 5:12 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Gear cutting setup on low-cost HF mill??

On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 06:31, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> What's the best kind of steel to buy that gives a combination of 
> machinability on a small mill and strength.

I will concur with Marcus, when making starter gears for the Ner-a-Car I used 
EN8.
 EN8 is the old name (ie, before 1970) name for 080M40 In turn 080M40 is 
similar  to US 1039, 1040, 1042, 1043, 1045

> Given my setup, a HF mill and manual (non-CNC) HF mini lathe which 
> would have the best result, a hob or an involute cutter?

You can only hob if you can set the hob spindle at an angle to the gear axis.
Hobbing should give a perfect profile at any tooth count, but it more difficult 
to arrange.
You definitely can hob on a mini-mill, though. https://youtu.be/ZhICrb0Tbn4

> The really hard part that I don't know how to do is a ring gear.   I can't
> figure out how to cut internal teeth.

Cutting internal teeth isn't something that can be done with a hob _or_ an 
involute cutter. You need a Fellows gear shaper, or at least to find a way to 
set up the equivalent on your CNC mill.
https://youtu.be/72YgpVF4O7g
I don't think it is impossible, with the cutting tool in the rotary axis, 
circularly interpolating around the blank.
It might be simpler to order one wire-spark eroded for a one-off or a stock 
part from HPC or similar.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

[ken.strauss]

Something like 
https://blog.snapeda.com/2016/12/13/the-top-5-desktop-pcb-printers/

-Original Message-
From: R C  
Sent: March 3, 2021 10:47 AM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

I wonder how long before someone comes up with something, so that you can just  
print a pcb on a 3d printer.  Put a sheet of "substrate" in it, and just print 
the traces on it.

On 3/2/21 9:20 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> Has anyone tried this for holding down PCB's when milling?
>
> https://www.materialsampleshop.com/products/micro-suction-tape
>
> Roland
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

[ken.strauss]

Interesting! At 0.8mm thick I wonder how stable the positioning (both X/Y
and Z) of the board would be. BTW, it seems to be available from Amazon
Canada and probably many other places:
https://www.amazon.ca/VViViD-AirFuse-Microsuction-Black-250mm/dp/B078FBQ3FC

-Original Message-
From: Roland Jollivet  
Sent: March 2, 2021 11:20 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: [Emc-users] OT: pcb milling

Has anyone tried this for holding down PCB's when milling?

https://www.materialsampleshop.com/products/micro-suction-tape

Roland

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Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

[ken.strauss]

" A solid R8 should be just as good " Yes, my assumption was that a collet or 
R8 would produce similar results with a collet being slightly worse.

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: February 7, 2021 3:21 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 at 20:10,  wrote:

> Perhaps using a collet results in more variability of tool lengths 
> compared to an R8 alone. However, I doubt that either way is 
> reproducible to less than several thou.

The whole class of 7/24 tapers rely on pulling back to the same place every 
time. A solid R8 should be just as good, the taper angle is the same to within 
less than half a degree.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

[ken.strauss]

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: February 7, 2021 2:46 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

On Sunday 07 February 2021 13:09:24 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 02/07/2021 06:38 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > 1. Any tool griping mechanism the has to squeeze a collet by drawing 
> > it lengthwise in a tapered seat has to compromise your tlo offsets 
> > in the tool table
Perhaps using a collet results in more variability of tool lengths compared
to an R8 alone. However, I doubt that either way is reproducible to less
than several thou. Why not touch off to a tool height sensor or use a simple
system like the Tormach TTS?





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Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

[ken.strauss]

I am a dozen years your junior but I greatly value getting my new toys *NOW*
regardless of cost. I've never seen Tormach sales numbers but I believe that
it is significant and that their new machines are in demand. I would (and
did years ago) purchase a new rather than a used Tormach. For minimal
savings and huge bother I don't think it is worth risking the purchase of
another's mistreated machine.

I have never liked bananas, green or otherwise.

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: February 7, 2021 12:51 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

On Sunday 07 February 2021 10:32:56 ken.stra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Please let me summarize your needs/desires for a new machine:
>   You have limited room
>   Want something larger and more rigid than your current machine
>   Must run on single phase 220 power
>   Ball screws
>   R8 or BT30 spindle
>   Maybe servos
>   Maybe rigid tapping
>   Controlled by LinuxCNC
>   Like me, you are elderly so not looking for a 10-year
> project but you relish the idea of making designing
> improvements and testing your designs.
>
Chuckle, I hearby nominate that last as understatement of the year.

I have reached that age, now 86, and with my heart history, where I don't
even buy green banannas.  Yet my last checkup, 6 months after they worked on
my heart the last time, they looked it over and said to make another
appointment next January. That has to be confidence in the cath-labs work.
;-)

> Have you considered buying a new or used Tormach? Their 440 has a
> 42x36 footprint and an R8 spindle. Their 770MX has a 56x48 footprint,
> BT30 spindle, servos, rigid tapping, etc. All of their machines use 
> PathPilot which is really LinuxCNC with a pretty face. Factory 
> electrics are fully documented, there are many users willing to help 
> with modifications and the machines work "out of the box". They are 
> more expensive than the initial cost of what you have been considering 
> but instant gratification has value! Disclaimer: I have no financial 
> interest but have been a happy user for many years.

What I have found is that there aren't many in the used market, means either
sales suck or everyones happy, and that leads to higher prices if and when
one does come to the auction block.

Thanks for your thoughts Ken, much appreciated.

Take care & stay well.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

[ken.strauss]

Please let me summarize your needs/desires for a new machine:
  You have limited room
  Want something larger and more rigid than your current machine
  Must run on single phase 220 power
  Ball screws
  R8 or BT30 spindle
  Maybe servos
  Maybe rigid tapping
  Controlled by LinuxCNC
  Like me, you are elderly so not looking for a 10-year
project but you relish the idea of making designing
improvements and testing your designs.

Have you considered buying a new or used Tormach? Their 440 has a 42x36
footprint and an R8 spindle. Their 770MX has a 56x48 footprint, BT30
spindle, servos, rigid tapping, etc. All of their machines use PathPilot
which is really LinuxCNC with a pretty face. Factory electrics are fully
documented, there are many users willing to help with modifications and the
machines work "out of the box". They are more expensive than the initial
cost of what you have been considering but instant gratification has value!
Disclaimer: I have no financial interest but have been a happy user for many
years.

-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: February 7, 2021 8:20 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] machine opinion please

On Saturday 06 February 2021 19:03:27 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021 at 22:52, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > 
>
> The column does look to be of adequate size, unlike most.
>
> I still think you would possibly be better-served by a used industrial 
> machine.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/264882512556

> Is cute, and has a horizontal spindle option too.

Neat, but does it have ball screws and room on the table for my converted
BS-1?  It looks like the knee is all the way down and if its tilted chuck
facing up, probably a bit over a foot high.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] EDM from scratch

[ken.strauss]

Problem solved.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 31, 2021 2:35 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM from scratch

Rats.  I'm missing #169 for some reason.  

The series I was thinking about was in issues #57..#60 and with addendums in
#64 and #68.  The #68 issue discussed dielectrics safe for the home workshop
and the liquid mentioned may still be available in the UK.

John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: Gerrit Visser [mailto:gerr...@psgv.ca]
> Sent: January-31-21 11:06 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM from scratch
> 
> Issue 168, Oct 2010 is the first installment
> 
> Gerrit
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: January 31, 2021 1:31 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] EDM from scratch
> 
> Andy,
> Check out this page:
> http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/a-spark-erosion-apparatus.html
> 
> Also Model Engineer's workshop had a 4 part series on building one.  
> I'll go through my archives and see if I can find them.  I'm pretty sure I
had all 4.  An online search doesn't pinpoint which issues.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] NURBS G5.2 G5.3 works well

[ken.strauss]

Really? See
https://www.amazon.com/Slogging-Spanne-Striking-Wrench-Spanner/dp/B08291ZK8P
/


-Original Message-
From: Gene Heskett  
Sent: January 20, 2021 4:16 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] NURBS G5.2 G5.3 works well

On Wednesday 20 January 2021 15:12:25 Andy Pugh wrote:

> > On 20 Jan 2021, at 19:10, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > Since I can't buy a 30mm wrench that doesn't weigh 10+ lbs, and is 
> > 15-20"
>
> What term do you use for slogging spanners in the US?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Striking-Slugging-Slogging-Flogging-Open-End-
>Spanner-Metric-20-58mm-Individual/191875402318 I got one of those for  
>my spindle.

I've seen them , but no one in this row of apple trees knows what to call
them, including me, let alone have any for sale.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] I wonder if I can fix it?

[ken.strauss]

https://www.makeitfrom.com/compare/SAE-AISI-4140-SCM440-G41400-Cr-Mo-Steel/SAE-AISI-P20-T51620-Low-Carbon-Mould-Steel


-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: January 5, 2021 5:57 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] I wonder if I can fix it?

> > After heat treating it would probably require some grinding or polishing 
> > unless you can cover it in a way that it won't oxidize.
> 
> I am wondering about using something like P20.
> 
> 
What is P20?
John

> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is 
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and 
> lunatics."
>   George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Another Python question

[ken.strauss]

Thanks for the instantaneous response! Now I need to figure out how to retrofit 
to 2.7...

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: December 18, 2020 7:01 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Another Python question

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 23:55,  wrote:

> Where can I download the python helpful functions enhancements in 2.8 
> documented at 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/hal/halmodule.html#_helpful_functions? I am 
> primarily interested in how get_value is implemented.

I think that they are a part of halmodule.cc

https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/43ac9730f4d6be679bd28292d88fdfcdb8204907/src/hal/halmodule.cc

So they are not implemented in Python, but are available to Python if you 
import hal

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Another Python question

[ken.strauss]

I'm obviously not sufficiently github knowledgeable. 

Where can I download the python helpful functions enhancements in 2.8 
documented at 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/hal/halmodule.html#_helpful_functions? I am 
primarily interested in how get_value is implemented.




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Re: [Emc-users] Python question

[ken.strauss]

With the great help on list and off I'm having some progress.

When debugging it is very convenient to be able to run a program in a terminal 
window. Doing so immediately shows syntax errors. The program can talk to an 
Arduino listening on a USB simulated serial port and can create pins that can 
be displayed or set in halcmd. A ctrl-C closes things. The only remaining 
problem is that I have not found a way to read values from existing HAL pins in 
order to get axis positions and other useful information. Halcmd and other 
programs can display the value of any pin. Is reading pins created by another 
program not supported in python or am I just missing a vital incantation?



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Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

[ken.strauss]

Apologies for my late response but I've had to attend to other matters. 

 

In your sample Python code where is "data" defined?

 

-Original Message-
From: Ernesto Lo Valvo  
Sent: December 11, 2020 11:06 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

 

I have made something similar to what you ask between a Raspberry and an
Arduino board with a 16x2 LCD display.

The Python program that runs on the Raspberry is this:

 

--

import linuxcnc

import serial, time

 

ser = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyUSB0')  # open serial port data =
linuxcnc.stat()

 

try:

 while True:

  data.poll()

  x=data.actual_position[0]-data.g5x_offset[0]

  y=data.actual_position[1]-data.g5x_offset[1]

  z=data.actual_position[2]-data.g5x_offset[2]

  a=data.actual_position[3]-data.g5x_offset[3]

   r0=("X{x:5.2f} Y{y:5.2f}".format(x=x,y=y))

   r1=("Z{z:5.2f} A{a:5.2f}".format(z=z,a=a))

 

   ser.write(r0.encode('utf-8')+'%')

   ser.write(r1.encode('utf-8')+'%')

   time.sleep(.05)

 

except KeyboardInterrupt:

 ser.close()

--

 


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Re: [Emc-users] Python question

[ken.strauss]

Tormach installs their stuff into a directory named for the current version
of Pathpilot and then creates a link to it from ~/tmc  With help from a very
knowledgeable Tormach user I learned that if you enter:

cd ~/tmc
source ./scripts/rip-environment.sh

you can then run halcmd in a terminal window

Thanks for the hint!

-Original Message-
From: Frank Tkalcevic  
Sent: December 15, 2020 8:46 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Python question

I run in-place, so I run...

. $EMC_HOME/scripts/rip-environment

Before each run.

If you are running PathPilot, I'm guessing your distribution is from
Tormach, so the environment variables may already be set up.  

Just try it.  If it doesn't work, you should get error messages.



-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 December 2020 12:08 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Python question

Are the necessary environment variables document somewhere?

-Original Message-
From: Frank Tkalcevic 
Sent: December 15, 2020 6:51 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Python question

As long as the environment variables are set up correctly, you should just
be able to run the python app from the command line without "halcmd
loadusr".


-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 December 2020 7:54 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: [Emc-users] Python question

I somewhat understand writing a Python program that reads/writes HAL pins
and starting it with halcmd loadusr. Is it possible to start a Python
program from a terminal window and access HAL pins without using halcmd? If
yes, what is the magic incantation? I ask because PathPilot does not appear
to include halcmd.



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Re: [Emc-users] Python question

[ken.strauss]

Are the necessary environment variables document somewhere?

-Original Message-
From: Frank Tkalcevic  
Sent: December 15, 2020 6:51 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Python question

As long as the environment variables are set up correctly, you should just
be able to run the python app from the command line without "halcmd
loadusr".


-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 December 2020 7:54 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: [Emc-users] Python question

I somewhat understand writing a Python program that reads/writes HAL pins
and starting it with halcmd loadusr. Is it possible to start a Python
program from a terminal window and access HAL pins without using halcmd? If
yes, what is the magic incantation? I ask because PathPilot does not appear
to include halcmd.



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[Emc-users] Python question

[ken.strauss]

I somewhat understand writing a Python program that reads/writes HAL pins and 
starting it with halcmd loadusr. Is it possible to start a Python program from 
a terminal window and access HAL pins without using halcmd? If yes, what is the 
magic incantation? I ask because PathPilot does not appear to include halcmd.



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Re: [Emc-users] can i hook this to my cnc mill

[ken.strauss]

And don't get distracted!

-Original Message-
From: andy pugh  
Sent: December 14, 2020 1:07 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] can i hook this to my cnc mill

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 18:00, grumpy--- via Emc-users 
 wrote:
>
> https://venturebeat.com/2020/12/07/nextmind-real-time-brain-computer-i
> nterface-dev-kit/

Video it if you do. And make sure you have limit switches.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for 
the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

[ken.strauss]

Yes, that is a simple version of what I need. Thanks your sample is helpful
and gives me some additional ideas for how to do things. Using Chris's links
I've managed to create something that does almost everything that I need
although I still have to add a CRC calculation for the output messages and
finish the Arduino code. My main challenge has been the undocumented usage
of halcmd with PathPilot's GUI!

-Original Message-
From: Ernesto Lo Valvo  
Sent: December 11, 2020 11:06 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 7:53 AM  wrote:

> I am attempting to produce a Python component which periodically 
> outputs X/Y/Z/A coordinates via a serial port that is actually a USB
connection.
> This is similar to what is required for pendants that display the 
> current coordinates. Can anyone suggest a tutorial or source code that 
> could be adapted to my needs?
>
> I have looked at 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html
> but
> I'm hoping for something simpler and a little easier to adapt to Python.
>

I have made something similar to what you ask between a Raspberry and an
Arduino board with a 16x2 LCD display.
The Python program that runs on the Raspberry is this:

--
import linuxcnc
import serial, time

ser = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyUSB0')  # open serial port data =
linuxcnc.stat()

try:
 while True:
  data.poll()
  x=data.actual_position[0]-data.g5x_offset[0]
  y=data.actual_position[1]-data.g5x_offset[1]
  z=data.actual_position[2]-data.g5x_offset[2]
  a=data.actual_position[3]-data.g5x_offset[3]
   r0=("X{x:5.2f} Y{y:5.2f}".format(x=x,y=y))
   r1=("Z{z:5.2f} A{a:5.2f}".format(z=z,a=a))

   ser.write(r0.encode('utf-8')+'%')
   ser.write(r1.encode('utf-8')+'%')
   time.sleep(.05)

except KeyboardInterrupt:
 ser.close()
--

The Arduino program is this:

--
/*ernesto.lova...@unipa.it @ 2020 */

#include 
#include 
LiquidCrystal_I2C lcd(0x3F, 16, 2);
char riga=0;

void setup() {
   Serial.begin(9600);
   while (!Serial) ;
   Serial.print("Avvio");
   lcd.init();
   lcd.backlight();
   lcd.setCursor(0, 0);
   lcd.print("Avvio");
}

void loop() {
   while(Serial.available()) {
   inputString=Serial.readStringUntil('%');
   Serial.println(inputString);
   lcd.setCursor(0, riga);
   lcd.print(inputString);
   riga = 1-riga;
  }
}
--

I used the '%' character to signal the newline which was giving me some
trouble.

Let me know if that's what you were looking for.

Ernesto Lo Valvo




-- 
From:Prof. Ernesto Lo Valvo

Dipartimento di Architettura
Universita' di Palermo
Viale delle Scienze
90128 Palermo (Italy)
Tel: +39-091-23861845 (direct)



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Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

[ken.strauss]

Those look useful so thanks! 

I'm doing the software that receives the serial data so I should able to
read and process everything fast enough to not require flow control. Even if
I miss a message the next update message will be good enough. I'll probably
include a start of message and definitely include a checksum. Alternatively
use no start of message and calculate a running checksum for the last N
bytes (number determined by the coordinate accuracy desired) received and
discard everything until a valid checksum is received.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: December 8, 2020 12:10 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Sample code

I wanted to do about the same thing and found this:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/hal/halmodule.html

Also in addition to the above you will need to write to a serial port.
Here is a walkthrough:
https://pyserial.readthedocs.io/en/latest/shortintro.html

Are you designing the USB device?  If so you might want to add some protocol
around the data.  At least a flag value at the start and a simple crc at the
end.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 7:53 AM  wrote:

> I am attempting to produce a Python component which periodically 
> outputs X/Y/Z/A coordinates via a serial port that is actually a USB
connection.
> This is similar to what is required for pendants that display the 
> current coordinates. Can anyone suggest a tutorial or source code that 
> could be adapted to my needs?
>
> I have looked at 
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html
> but
> I'm hoping for something simpler and a little easier to adapt to Python.
>
>
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[Emc-users] Sample code

[ken.strauss]

I am attempting to produce a Python component which periodically outputs
X/Y/Z/A coordinates via a serial port that is actually a USB connection.
This is similar to what is required for pendants that display the current
coordinates. Can anyone suggest a tutorial or source code that could be
adapted to my needs?

I have looked at http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html but
I'm hoping for something simpler and a little easier to adapt to Python.



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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

Bingo!
As suggested by John, I tested a trivial program on an Arduino Leonardo
(ATmega32u4)  that sets/unsets the UDCON bit0 every 20 seconds. PathPilot
sees/loses/sees/loses... the USB port every 20 seconds. I need to do more
testing but it appears that my problem is solved.

Thanks for everyone's help with this!

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: December 4, 2020 7:02 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

I don't have an Arduino here that has the ATmega16U4 so I can't try this.
Perhaps someone else can?

Page 281 of the linked data sheet shows UDCON bit 0 holds the Detach Bit.
Googling access to Arduino registers implies that you can just use the data
sheet name to get to the register.

So theoretically this statement in the init() function should disable the
USB.  Ie. It will disappear or won't show up.  
UDCON = UDCON & 0xFE;

Now in the main line monitor one of the port pins that you have connected to
a button and set up as an input.  

If the USB device doesn't show up then you know the DETACH bit has worked.  

When the mainline loop blinking the LED sees the button press execute this:
UDCON = UDCON | 0x01;

Now check the PC to see if the USB port shows up.

If that works then you have an easy way to logically remove the USB
connection.  Initialize all hardware.  Then logically plug the USB cable
back in.

John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: December-04-20 10:22 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> 
> Still requires an output. Whether it's DTR, Power, a Relay or the #RESET
signal.
> 
> Page 272 and 273 talks about the DETACH bit.
> https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-7766-8-bit-AVR-
> ATmega16U4-32U4_Datasheet.pdf
> 
> It's worth a try in that blink application working with that bit to see if
Path Pilot no longer sees the serial port once the detach is set.
> And then re-enumerated if cleared 120 seconds later.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: December-04-20 10:02 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> >
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > PJRC's version of Arduino is somewhat different, I wonder if DTR is 
> > what you need?  If you can read the serial.dtr as shown here, then I'm
pretty sure you can hold DTR low until you are ready to send/receive data:
> >
> > https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_serial.html
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > Your suggestion sounded great so I did a few tests. I loaded a PCJR 
> > Teensy LC (ARM Cortex-M0+) and a genuine Arduinio Leonardo 
> > (ATmega32u4) with the standard BLINK program --  
> >
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > -users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

UDCON = UDCON & 0xFE;
The above compiles without error for an Arduino Leonardo. I'll try it in the
shop tomorrow.
Thanks!


-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: December 4, 2020 7:02 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

I don't have an Arduino here that has the ATmega16U4 so I can't try this.
Perhaps someone else can?

Page 281 of the linked data sheet shows UDCON bit 0 holds the Detach Bit.
Googling access to Arduino registers implies that you can just use the data
sheet name to get to the register.

So theoretically this statement in the init() function should disable the
USB.  Ie. It will disappear or won't show up.  
UDCON = UDCON & 0xFE;

Now in the main line monitor one of the port pins that you have connected to
a button and set up as an input.  

If the USB device doesn't show up then you know the DETACH bit has worked.  

When the mainline loop blinking the LED sees the button press execute this:
UDCON = UDCON | 0x01;

Now check the PC to see if the USB port shows up.

If that works then you have an easy way to logically remove the USB
connection.  Initialize all hardware.  Then logically plug the USB cable
back in.

John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: December-04-20 10:22 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> 
> Still requires an output. Whether it's DTR, Power, a Relay or the #RESET
signal.
> 
> Page 272 and 273 talks about the DETACH bit.
> https://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/Atmel-7766-8-bit-AVR-
> ATmega16U4-32U4_Datasheet.pdf
> 
> It's worth a try in that blink application working with that bit to see if
Path Pilot no longer sees the serial port once the detach is set.
> And then re-enumerated if cleared 120 seconds later.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: December-04-20 10:02 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> >
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > PJRC's version of Arduino is somewhat different, I wonder if DTR is 
> > what you need?  If you can read the serial.dtr as shown here, then I'm
pretty sure you can hold DTR low until you are ready to send/receive data:
> >
> > https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_serial.html
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > Your suggestion sounded great so I did a few tests. I loaded a PCJR 
> > Teensy LC (ARM Cortex-M0+) and a genuine Arduinio Leonardo 
> > (ATmega32u4) with the standard BLINK program --  
> >
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > -users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

You are correct. I have a udev rule to connect to my particular VID/PID. The
problem is trying to talk before I'm really ready.

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: December 4, 2020 1:41 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

So PP will try and "talk" to every serial port on your computer?   I doubt
it is that dumb.   I bet there is a Udev rule that triggers something and
you can edit the rules to look for the exact type of device or manufacturer
ID.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 10:09 AM  wrote:

> Thanks for I'm unsure how that helps. My widget interfaces to 
> LinuxCNC/PathPilot as a serial device rather than as a mouse or keyboard.
> What should my entry in udev/rules.d look like?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: December 4, 2020 12:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
>
> With Arduino, the test is not to simply plug in the device.  Look at
> File->Examples->USB and run the sketch.
>
> While the Arduino itself shows as a serial device, the example shows 
> you how to enumerate some other device, like a mouse, keyboard, or 
> mass
> storage.   This would be done only AFTER the .begin() is called.
>
> The idea is that you enumerate a "MyCNCmill" device or whatever else you
> want to call it.   Verify it works by placing a 30 second delay in the
> example code.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

Isn't DTR a signal controlled by the host (LinuxCNC) rather than the micro? 

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dobbins  
Sent: December 4, 2020 1:02 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

Hi Ken,

PJRC's version of Arduino is somewhat different, I wonder if DTR is what you
need?  If you can read the serial.dtr as shown here, then I'm pretty sure
you can hold DTR low until you are ready to send/receive data:

https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_serial.html

Martin




Your suggestion sounded great so I did a few tests. I loaded a PCJR Teensy
LC (ARM Cortex-M0+) and a genuine Arduinio Leonardo (ATmega32u4) with the
standard BLINK program --  

> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

Thanks for I'm unsure how that helps. My widget interfaces to
LinuxCNC/PathPilot as a serial device rather than as a mouse or keyboard.
What should my entry in udev/rules.d look like?

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: December 4, 2020 12:36 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

With Arduino, the test is not to simply plug in the device.  Look at
File->Examples->USB and run the sketch.

While the Arduino itself shows as a serial device, the example shows you how
to enumerate some other device, like a mouse, keyboard, or mass
storage.   This would be done only AFTER the .begin() is called.

The idea is that you enumerate a "MyCNCmill" device or whatever else you
want to call it.   Verify it works by placing a 30 second delay in the
example code.

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Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

John wrote: "But just as easily it can run for 7.654 to 8.765 hours and then 
suddenly hang with no apparent reason and no easy way to debug." 
There are lots of reasons for such random failures but in my experience they 
are often the result of over allocating RAM for data and thus leaving too 
little stack space.

There is definitely a ton of stuff happening in the background and it is all 
orchestrated by thousands of lines of mostly uncommented and buggy C++ code. It 
was created by independent developers who, lacking clear documentation, are apt 
to introduce race conditions, out of bounds parameters and other gotchas. The 
situation is worsened due to premiums on execution speed and limiting RAM 
usage. This mess is never seen by the casual user and I dare not tread there to 
save a $1 chip!

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: December 4, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

Glad you did the tests to figure that out.  There is a ton of stuff going on 
under the covers in the Arduino world which is why it's used by amateurs to do 
thousands of different projects.   But just as easily it can run for 7.654 to 
8.765 hours and then suddenly hang with no apparent reason and no easy way to 
debug.  

I have an ESP8266 Arduino compatible WiFi module that runs LED light shows like 
that.  All works fine while you have a PC plugged into the USB connection.  And 
then suddenly the show  vanishes.  And a while later restarts from scratch.

But it sounds like you are back to your original premise.  It's unlikely you 
could shut off the internal USB since it likely is identified by the PC before 
your program is ever run.  

What you could try in the init() function is to disable the internal USB and 
then sit in the blink while loop.  See if then it's enumerated but lost so Path 
Pilot won't see it anymore until you do.  Count 1000 blinks and then enable it 
again.  Of course, you have to know what other things to set up since disabling 
it may also require other registers to be initialized again.

Alternatively use an extra output on the Arduino module and either hold an 
FT232 in reset, pull that Data Line low, control power to the FT232H or control 
a relay to break the connection.  

I just built a module this week for a project that requires control over power. 
 Photo attached.  The cover is a tight fit and the long edges hold the PC board 
and connector firmly to the bottom.  The blink LED status output in the module 
is used to drive a transistor which drives the relay.  It's no longer used for 
blinky operations.

John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@gmail.com [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: December-04-20 7:43 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> 
> Your suggestion sounded great so I did a few tests. I loaded a PCJR 
> Teensy LC (ARM Cortex-M0+) and a genuine Arduinio Leonardo 
> (ATmega32u4) with the standard BLINK program -- the Arduino equivalent of the 
> Linux HELLOWORLD.
> For those unfamiliar with the Arduino world both of these boards have 
> native USB support rather than using a FT232 or other separate chip. 
> The BLINK program requires no extra hardware but uses an Arduino pin 
> to blink the onboard LED. The program is only a few lines and there is 
> no explicit code to enable serial communication or do anything USB 
> related. Hidden from the user, several thousand bytes of system 
> routines to control interrupts, timers, USB, etc. are loaded together with 
> the 5 line user program.
> 
> Results:
> As soon as the Teensy LC is plugged in, lsusb shows a new USB device 
> with VID/PID of 16c0/04d3. PathPilot shows a status message that a USB 
> device has been connected.
> 
> As soon as the Arduino Leonardo is plugged in, lsusb shows a new USB 
> device with VID/PID of 2341-8036.  PathPilot shows a status message 
> that a USB device has been connected.
> 
> Conclusion:
> The standard Arduino ecosystem does not easily allow USB enumeration 
> to be delayed. Everything is open source software so I'm sure that one 
> can disable/enable the on-chip USB but doing so is beyond my expertise.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: December 3, 2020 12:58 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> 
> The problem is with the USB device.  If a FT232 chip is used it seems 
> to be doing the enumeration as soon as it is plugged in.
> The simple solution is to avoid using the FT232 and use something else 
> where you have control over when and if enumeration occurs.
> 
> The good news is that this "something else is free and you already 
> have it
> -- the USB pins in the microcontroller.
> 
> In the Arduino IDE what start the enumeration is the ".begin()" method that
> is called on the USB connection object.   Look in the IDE
> 

Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

[ken.strauss]

Your suggestion sounded great so I did a few tests. I loaded a PCJR Teensy
LC (ARM Cortex-M0+) and a genuine Arduinio Leonardo (ATmega32u4) with the
standard BLINK program -- the Arduino equivalent of the Linux HELLOWORLD.
For those unfamiliar with the Arduino world both of these boards have native
USB support rather than using a FT232 or other separate chip. The BLINK
program requires no extra hardware but uses an Arduino pin to blink the
onboard LED. The program is only a few lines and there is no explicit code
to enable serial communication or do anything USB related. Hidden from the
user, several thousand bytes of system routines to control interrupts,
timers, USB, etc. are loaded together with the 5 line user program.

Results:
As soon as the Teensy LC is plugged in, lsusb shows a new USB device with
VID/PID of 16c0/04d3. PathPilot shows a status message that a USB device has
been connected.

As soon as the Arduino Leonardo is plugged in, lsusb shows a new USB device
with VID/PID of 2341-8036.  PathPilot shows a status message that a USB
device has been connected.

Conclusion:
The standard Arduino ecosystem does not easily allow USB enumeration to be
delayed. Everything is open source software so I'm sure that one can
disable/enable the on-chip USB but doing so is beyond my expertise. 

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: December 3, 2020 12:49 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 5:13 AM  wrote:

> Even if the FT232 RXD/TXD/DSR/CTS/etc pins are left floating it is 
> recognized by Linux as soon as it is plugged in. For example, lsusb 
> lists it.
>

I'm sorry I am still not clear.The FT232 has two ports.   One has RS232
lines and the other has USB data lines. Letting the RS232 port float would
do nothing, just like you are seeing.

When you plug in the FT232 it starts a conversation with the PC even if
there is nothing connected to the serial port and the FT232 chip is
detected.

so simple solutions *DO NOT USE AN FT232 CHIP*.   The reason is that this
chip does not do what you want.  Simply use the USB pins that are built into
the MCU

Assuming you do this, now you have control over when and if the USB device
talks to the Linux computer.  Simply wait until you are ready.

The FT232 chip was designed to do one simple job and that is allit can do.
But it is not the job you need done,  That said, holding the reset pin low
might work but you better do that in hardware with a pull-down o there is
no race condition between the MCU and FT232.   But again why hassle with
the FT232 chip?  Every reasonable MCU has USB built-in.



> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: December 3, 2020 12:52 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
>
> Does it work that way?
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 8:12 PM  wrote:
>
> > That would be great but if the USB-serial has power then it is found 
> > in the USB enumeration even if the MCU is busy
>
>
> Really?  How is it enumerated without the need for the MCU to send data?
>  Getting power is not enough.  The Linux side needs to see an "ACK" 
> from the setup.
>
>
>
> > and ignoring the serial data stream.
> >
>
> There is no serial data stream, not until after the USB device sends "ACK"
> and is enumerated as a serial device.   That has not yet happened
>
> That is why I was considering holding a FT232 in RESET
>
>
> If you use an FT232 then maybe it is simply pre-programmed and some hack
is
> required because you can't access the code inside the chip.   I think this
> is an argument for not using FT232  Just connect the USB pins fom the MCU
> directly. and then you have control over what happens.   I would not
> suggest a hardware solution when what needs to be done is in the 
> standard protocall.
>
> If this USB device is based on an MCU that is supported by Arduino IDE
then
> there is example code in the IDE.  See where XXX.begin is called.   Where
> XXX is "mouse" or "keyboard"   What you do is not call the .begin method
> until you want Linux to notice the device.XXX is a wrapper of subclass
> aroud something like "pluggableUSB".You can experiment with an Arduino
> and see that it can have any delay t like between being plugged in and 
> being noticed as a new device.
>
> until everything is
> > ready to process commands. The relay in the USB cable suggested by 
> > John would do what you suggest.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson 
> > Sent: December 2, 2020 10:33 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] USB - Serial question
> >
> > So PP does the scan of USB devices and does not see your device. It 
> > will not see your device because it is still initializing and is 
> > ignoring the "set up"
> > packets.   Finally, your device responds and then PP responds to the
> > connection.   The trick is to NOT connect until