Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC, Freecad (bugtracker, G41 and G42 being swapped)

[linden]

I will play this weekend and see if i can reproduce the issues I had

On 16-05-12 02:42 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Here is the bugtracker for path workbench 
> http://www.freecadweb.org/tracker/my_view_page.php in Freecad. If you know 
> the problem can you find it or file a good bug report?
>
>
>
> On Thu, 12 May 2016 09:21:23 -0700
> linden  wrote:
>
>> Free cad path module is defiantly beta software at this stage.
>> The drilling routines seem to work reliably but any thing with arcs can
>> give you issues with G41 and G42 being swapped. This shows up in the gui
>> when the path is calculated and plotted so its not so scary you see it
>> right away..
>> I have had issues with lay out of bolt circles as well but i think that
>> was operator error on the part of this monkey behind the keyboard more
>> than the program it self. It may have been some thing to do with arc
>> calculation again as i seemed to get one hole that was out of sequence.
>> I think there is a git hub branch under active development that may be
>> farther along i keep seeing subtle changes in the daily builds ppa so
>> people are hacking on it and making progress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 16-05-12 12:19 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> I have seen a "path" workbench in Freecad but have not been able to try it 
>>> yet.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 May 2016 20:26:53 -0400
>>> Erik Friesen  wrote:
>>>
 I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
 point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
 stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
 opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
 javascript).

 So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
 powerful cam.

 On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:

> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
>
> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
>
> Will need more work to do the rest.
>
> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
> storage and without any USB sticks.
>
> Rudy
>>> --
>>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
>>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

it is on github.com/jethornton

JT


On 5/12/2016 9:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 12 May 2016 18:57:36 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I need to update the files on my web site. Like everything else I
>> share well almost everything.
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 5/12/2016 1:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Thursday 12 May 2016 07:07:32 John Thornton wrote:
 I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.

 JT
> NP John, time gets away from all of us. :)
>
> Thanks.
>
>>> Sounds interesting but I don't see it on your site John, is this a
>>> commercial offering?
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting.
>> Employees who bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the
>> imposition of MDM restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you
>> to control only the apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them,
>> leaving personal data untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


--
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restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I found the latest version but need to get golang set up on this new 
install. I'll try and get it all sorted out this weekend.

JT


On 5/12/2016 9:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 12 May 2016 18:57:36 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I need to update the files on my web site. Like everything else I
>> share well almost everything.
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 5/12/2016 1:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Thursday 12 May 2016 07:07:32 John Thornton wrote:
 I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.

 JT
> NP John, time gets away from all of us. :)
>
> Thanks.
>
>>> Sounds interesting but I don't see it on your site John, is this a
>>> commercial offering?
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting.
>> Employees who bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the
>> imposition of MDM restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you
>> to control only the apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them,
>> leaving personal data untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


--
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bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 12 May 2016 18:57:36 John Thornton wrote:

> I need to update the files on my web site. Like everything else I
> share well almost everything.
>
> JT
>
> On 5/12/2016 1:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Thursday 12 May 2016 07:07:32 John Thornton wrote:
> >> I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.
> >>
> >> JT

NP John, time gets away from all of us. :)

Thanks.

> > Sounds interesting but I don't see it on your site John, is this a
> > commercial offering?
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting.
> Employees who bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the
> imposition of MDM restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you
> to control only the apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them,
> leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I need to update the files on my web site. Like everything else I share 
well almost everything.

JT


On 5/12/2016 1:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 12 May 2016 07:07:32 John Thornton wrote:
>
>> I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.
>>
>> JT
> Sounds interesting but I don't see it on your site John, is this a
> commercial offering?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 12 May 2016, at 22:47, Martin Dobbins wrote:

> Onshape should run on just about anything with an internet connection (?)
> 
> Please let us know how your experiments go.
> 

It won't run on a pre-Intel Mac. Onshape have been very helpful, but the 
graphics cards from that era will not perform properly.

Marcus

> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> From: John Alexander Stewart <ivatt...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:32 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> Well, OnShape is available for Linux. I am currently figuring that package
> out. Not sure about CAM, but will try CamBam on the output.
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Martin Dobbins]

Onshape should run on just about anything with an internet connection (?)

Please let us know how your experiments go.

Martin



From: John Alexander Stewart <ivatt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 4:32 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

Well, OnShape is available for Linux. I am currently figuring that package
out. Not sure about CAM, but will try CamBam on the output.
--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
___
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--
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bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC, Freecad (bugtracker, G41 and G42 being swapped)

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Here is the bugtracker for path workbench 
http://www.freecadweb.org/tracker/my_view_page.php in Freecad. If you know the 
problem can you find it or file a good bug report?



On Thu, 12 May 2016 09:21:23 -0700
linden  wrote:

> Free cad path module is defiantly beta software at this stage.
> The drilling routines seem to work reliably but any thing with arcs can 
> give you issues with G41 and G42 being swapped. This shows up in the gui 
> when the path is calculated and plotted so its not so scary you see it 
> right away..
> I have had issues with lay out of bolt circles as well but i think that 
> was operator error on the part of this monkey behind the keyboard more 
> than the program it self. It may have been some thing to do with arc 
> calculation again as i seemed to get one hole that was out of sequence.
> I think there is a git hub branch under active development that may be 
> farther along i keep seeing subtle changes in the daily builds ppa so 
> people are hacking on it and making progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 16-05-12 12:19 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > I have seen a "path" workbench in Freecad but have not been able to try it 
> > yet.
> >
> > On Wed, 11 May 2016 20:26:53 -0400
> > Erik Friesen  wrote:
> >
> >> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
> >> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
> >> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
> >> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
> >> javascript).
> >>
> >> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
> >> powerful cam.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
> >>> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
> >>>
> >>> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
> >>> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
> >>> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
> >>> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
> >>>
> >>> Will need more work to do the rest.
> >>>
> >>> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
> >>> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
> >>> storage and without any USB sticks.
> >>>
> >>> Rudy
> > --
> > Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> > bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> > restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> > apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> > https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Alexander Stewart]

Well, OnShape is available for Linux. I am currently figuring that package
out. Not sure about CAM, but will try CamBam on the output.
--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 05/12/2016 09:23 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> Here is the link to the terms for education and startup use.
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/company/legal-notices-trademarks/terms-of-service-autodesk360-web-services/autodesk-web-services-entitlements

Thanks!

The links I previously posted seemed to imply that Fusion360 is free for 
educational use and $300 for everyone else, even though I had repeatedly 
read that there is a hobby and startup business exemption.  I guess the 
marketing department doesn't want to make that too obvious on the 
website for fear that suddenly a large percentage of their customers 
will suddenly become small business startups.



On 05/12/2016 09:23 AM, Jim Craig wrote:
> Now if they would make a build for Linux everyone could be happy.

I begged AutoDesk for a Linux version on their user forum, many months 
ago.  Several others chimed in expressing interest and encouragement as 
well, but the AutoDesk representative terminated that discussion with 
extreme prejudice.  The AutoDesk representative readily admitted that 
they were using cross platform development tools to develop Fusion360 
for Windows and Mac, so it certainly wouldn't be a complete manual 
rewrite to port Fusion360 to Linux, but they made a corporate decision 
not to support Linux because, "Linux users won't pay for software".  It 
was a kinder and gentler version of the 1990s era Microsoft statement 
that, "Linux is cancer."  I countered by saying that Linux users can't 
buy software if commercial software vendors don't offer Linux software 
for sale, and followed up by noting that by far my most expensive 
software purchase was Eagle electronic design software (US$1200 plus 
annual maintenance costs), and I would not have bought it if not for the 
fact that it was available for Linux.  Our arguments fell on deaf ears.  
It may be worth trying to talk to someone else at AutoDesk, but the 
employee who was responding to the posts on their user forum seemed to 
have a religious prohibition to Linux.




--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 12 May 2016 07:07:32 John Thornton wrote:

> I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.
>
> JT

Sounds interesting but I don't see it on your site John, is this a 
commercial offering?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
___
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC, Freecad

[linden]

Free cad path module is defiantly beta software at this stage.
The drilling routines seem to work reliably but any thing with arcs can 
give you issues with G41 and G42 being swapped. This shows up in the gui 
when the path is calculated and plotted so its not so scary you see it 
right away..
I have had issues with lay out of bolt circles as well but i think that 
was operator error on the part of this monkey behind the keyboard more 
than the program it self. It may have been some thing to do with arc 
calculation again as i seemed to get one hole that was out of sequence.
I think there is a git hub branch under active development that may be 
farther along i keep seeing subtle changes in the daily builds ppa so 
people are hacking on it and making progress.




On 16-05-12 12:19 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> I have seen a "path" workbench in Freecad but have not been able to try it 
> yet.
>
> On Wed, 11 May 2016 20:26:53 -0400
> Erik Friesen  wrote:
>
>> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
>> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
>> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
>> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
>> javascript).
>>
>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>> powerful cam.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:
>>
>>> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
>>> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
>>>
>>> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
>>> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
>>> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
>>> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
>>>
>>> Will need more work to do the rest.
>>>
>>> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
>>> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
>>> storage and without any USB sticks.
>>>
>>> Rudy
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
___
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jim Craig]

Here is the link to the terms for education and startup use.

http://www.autodesk.com/company/legal-notices-trademarks/terms-of-service-autodesk360-web-services/autodesk-web-services-entitlements

Also the Fusion 360 software is excellent for milling and is pretty good 
for plasma. I wrote a post processor for the waterjet/laser/plasma setup 
that works with John T's O subroutine. I will be posting it on 
the forum for others to use.

The plasma allows for patterning parts for nesting but does not have a 
smart nesting feature yet. You can use a model of your partially used 
plate to determine locations of your part in that plate if you like.

As everyone else has said you can't hardly beat Fusion360 with a stick 
unless you fall out of the terms of the startup/hobby/education license. 
Then it is still pretty cheap.

Now if they would make a build for Linux everyone could be happy. We 
could request that a build be made for Debian Wheezy on the Idea station 
and then get as many votes from the LinuxCNC community as possible and 
it might sway them to do a build. I would bet that they would not make 
the build for Wheezy however since it is not the latest release.

Jim

On 5/12/2016 7:53 AM, tom-...@bgp.nu wrote:
>> On May 11, 2016, at 9:57 PM, Andy Pugh  wrote:
>> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
>> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)
> It is even more generous than it first appears.  We have had a several 
> discussions with Autodesk regarding the Fusion license terms in order to 
> deploy Fusion 360 for all members and staff at a maker space.  Not only does 
> the license allow for a free use by a “startup” making less than $100,000 per 
> year, but the intent is that the $100,000 amount is made on a product 
> directly connected to the use of Fusion 360.  Meaning your business could be 
> making more than $100k but if you are not deriving more than $100k on the 
> products you design in Fusion 360 you are within the terms of the free use by 
> a startup.
>
> While the license has some ambiguous terminology Autodesk’s clear intent (if 
> you talk to them) is to allow and encourage wide use and to have people ‘do 
> the right thing” when it comes to deciding if they should be paying for use.
> -Tom
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

I didn't know that they had a free trial.   I'll have to try that out.  
$300/year is very cheap if you are making money with it.

Sheetcam is good for a low cost, affordable package that you can just 
buy once.

For flatwork like Plasma cutting or water jet where you need to nest a 
number of different parts;   Pronest is good and fast to create a 
cutting path.
I think that Hypertherm bought them up.   I have used it at a customers 
site and I tweaked the post to make it work with LinuxCNC.   I think its 
list price is about $3K but if
you do a lot of flat plate cutting with various shapes it could pay for 
itself quickly in material costs saved.  Its nesting routines are good 
and it keeps track of cut sheets and the material left on the cut sheets 
so they can be recut with different shapes.I had previously used 
mynesting.com with Sheetcam to cut nested parts but Pronest on a local 
computer is a lot more effective time wise.

Dave


On 5/11/2016 11:33 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> On 05/11/2016 09:57 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>>> On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>>>
>>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>>> powerful cam.
>> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
>> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)
> I told my brother he could try Fusion360 for $300 a year, or less for
> hobby or small business use, but I was unable to find the lower cost
> option.  It looks like AutoDesk has captured enough of the market that
> it's now $300 per year...
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/try-buy
>
> ...unless you are a student or teacher, in which case it's free.
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/students-teachers-educators
>
> If anyone knows of the lower price option for a hobbyist who is not a
> student or teacher, I'd be very interested on my brother's behalf.  I'm
> still committed to FreeCAD or OpenSCAD for my piddly designs, although
> mostly I just write my simple G code by hand.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[tom-emc]

> On May 11, 2016, at 9:57 PM, Andy Pugh  wrote:
> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year) 

It is even more generous than it first appears.  We have had a several 
discussions with Autodesk regarding the Fusion license terms in order to deploy 
Fusion 360 for all members and staff at a maker space.  Not only does the 
license allow for a free use by a “startup” making less than $100,000 per year, 
but the intent is that the $100,000 amount is made on a product directly 
connected to the use of Fusion 360.  Meaning your business could be making more 
than $100k but if you are not deriving more than $100k on the products you 
design in Fusion 360 you are within the terms of the free use by a startup.

While the license has some ambiguous terminology Autodesk’s clear intent (if 
you talk to them) is to allow and encourage wide use and to have people ‘do the 
right thing” when it comes to deciding if they should be paying for use.
-Tom
--
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I wrote a golang program that converts dxf to gcode.

JT


On 5/11/2016 11:55 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I don't know if it has be mentioned earlier, but qCAD and DXF2gCode can
> be quite handy as in a free beer sense using Linux programs. In the
> past, I have drawn tool paths in qCAD and have had DXF2gCode do the
> rest. I have noticed some activity on the DXF2gCode list recently, so
> there may be more features available. There may even be some 3D features.
>
> On 05/11/2016 08:33 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>>
>> On 05/11/2016 09:57 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
 On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:

 So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
 powerful cam.
>>> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
>>> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)
>> I told my brother he could try Fusion360 for $300 a year, or less for
>> hobby or small business use, but I was unable to find the lower cost
>> option.  It looks like AutoDesk has captured enough of the market that
>> it's now $300 per year...
>>
>> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/try-buy
>>
>> ...unless you are a student or teacher, in which case it's free.
>>
>> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/students-teachers-educators
>>
>> If anyone knows of the lower price option for a hobbyist who is not a
>> student or teacher, I'd be very interested on my brother's behalf.  I'm
>> still committed to FreeCAD or OpenSCAD for my piddly designs, although
>> mostly I just write my simple G code by hand.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
>> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
>> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC, Freecad

[Nicklas Karlsson]

I have seen a "path" workbench in Freecad but have not been able to try it yet.

On Wed, 11 May 2016 20:26:53 -0400
Erik Friesen  wrote:

> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
> javascript).
> 
> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
> powerful cam.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:
> 
> > I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
> > for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
> >
> > I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
> > and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
> > work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
> > upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
> >
> > Will need more work to do the rest.
> >
> > I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
> > me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
> > storage and without any USB sticks.
> >
> > Rudy

--
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Marius Liebenberg]

Have you looked at Sheetcam. It is very good for flame and plasma and 
will not break the bank at £110-00. It is a once of cost.

-- Original Message --
From: "Bruce Layne" <linux...@thinkingdevices.com>
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
<emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: 2016-05-12 07:55:00
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

>2D CAD and DXF2GCODE is a powerful and fairly simple combination,
>particularly for the more inherently 2D machines such as routers,
>lasers, etc.
>
>LibreCAD was forked from QCad.  It might be easier to find LibreCAD in
>some Linux repositories.
>
>http://librecad.org/cms/home.html
>
>
>
>On 05/12/2016 12:55 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>>  I don't know if it has be mentioned earlier, but qCAD and DXF2gCode 
>>can
>>  be quite handy as in a free beer sense using Linux programs. In the
>>  past, I have drawn tool paths in qCAD and have had DXF2gCode do the
>>  rest. I have noticed some activity on the DXF2gCode list recently, so
>>  there may be more features available. There may even be some 3D 
>>features.
>>
>
>
>--
>Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
>bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of 
>MDM
>restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
>apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data 
>untouched!
>https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
>___
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>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
--
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Drew Rogge]

I think you just down load the free trial from 
http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/overview and start using. Mine 
hasn't timed out or anything yet.
Drew


On 5/11/16 8:33 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> On 05/11/2016 09:57 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>>> On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>>>
>>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>>> powerful cam.
>> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
>> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)
> I told my brother he could try Fusion360 for $300 a year, or less for
> hobby or small business use, but I was unable to find the lower cost
> option.  It looks like AutoDesk has captured enough of the market that
> it's now $300 per year...
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/try-buy
>
> ...unless you are a student or teacher, in which case it's free.
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/students-teachers-educators
>
> If anyone knows of the lower price option for a hobbyist who is not a
> student or teacher, I'd be very interested on my brother's behalf.  I'm
> still committed to FreeCAD or OpenSCAD for my piddly designs, although
> mostly I just write my simple G code by hand.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 
Drew Rogge
d...@dasrogges.com

Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO


--
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

2D CAD and DXF2GCODE is a powerful and fairly simple combination, 
particularly for the more inherently 2D machines such as routers, 
lasers, etc.

LibreCAD was forked from QCad.  It might be easier to find LibreCAD in 
some Linux repositories.

http://librecad.org/cms/home.html



On 05/12/2016 12:55 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> I don't know if it has be mentioned earlier, but qCAD and DXF2gCode can
> be quite handy as in a free beer sense using Linux programs. In the
> past, I have drawn tool paths in qCAD and have had DXF2gCode do the
> rest. I have noticed some activity on the DXF2gCode list recently, so
> there may be more features available. There may even be some 3D features.
>


--
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bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Kirk Wallace]

I don't know if it has be mentioned earlier, but qCAD and DXF2gCode can 
be quite handy as in a free beer sense using Linux programs. In the 
past, I have drawn tool paths in qCAD and have had DXF2gCode do the 
rest. I have noticed some activity on the DXF2gCode list recently, so 
there may be more features available. There may even be some 3D features.

On 05/11/2016 08:33 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>
>
> On 05/11/2016 09:57 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>>> On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>>>
>>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>>> powerful cam.
>> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
>> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)
>
> I told my brother he could try Fusion360 for $300 a year, or less for
> hobby or small business use, but I was unable to find the lower cost
> option.  It looks like AutoDesk has captured enough of the market that
> it's now $300 per year...
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/try-buy
>
> ...unless you are a student or teacher, in which case it's free.
>
> http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/students-teachers-educators
>
> If anyone knows of the lower price option for a hobbyist who is not a
> student or teacher, I'd be very interested on my brother's behalf.  I'm
> still committed to FreeCAD or OpenSCAD for my piddly designs, although
> mostly I just write my simple G code by hand.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

--
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

Actually I think Fusion could be good at both of those tasks.  I can't say
about flame cutting because I don't have a flame cutter (other than a hand
held Victor torch) But Fusion has an easy to use "2D mode" for making cut
out parts and it can drive a lathe too.  And mills and 3D printers.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 5:43 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:

> It really depends on what you want to do.   A Cam package good for
> flamecutting will likely be lousy for a lathe.
> Draftsight is free and very easy to use. Do you need nesting?
>
> Dave
>
> On 5/11/2016 8:30 PM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> > Adding another thing, every question I have asked on the forums has been
> > answered in hours by Fusion people.
> >
> > Are there bugs?  Yes.  Ever used Alibre?
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Erik Friesen  wrote:
> >
> >> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at
> this
> >> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing
> an
> >> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
> >> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
> >> javascript).
> >>
> >> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other
> equally
> >> powerful cam.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some
> GCODE
> >>> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion
> 360.
> >>>
> >>> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning
> Post
> >>> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The
> G33
> >>> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
> >>> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes
> R.
> >>>
> >>> Will need more work to do the rest.
> >>>
> >>> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It
> allows
> >>> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the
> Cloud
> >>> storage and without any USB sticks.
> >>>
> >>> Rudy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> --
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >
> --
> > Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> > bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> > restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> > apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
> untouched!
> > https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> --
> Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
> bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
> restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
> apps on BYO-devices by containerizing them, leaving personal data
> untouched!
> https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/304595813;131938128;j
> ___
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>



-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 05/11/2016 09:57 PM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>> On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>>
>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>> powerful cam.
> It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
> definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year)

I told my brother he could try Fusion360 for $300 a year, or less for 
hobby or small business use, but I was unable to find the lower cost 
option.  It looks like AutoDesk has captured enough of the market that 
it's now $300 per year...

http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/try-buy

...unless you are a student or teacher, in which case it's free.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/students-teachers-educators

If anyone knows of the lower price option for a hobbyist who is not a 
student or teacher, I'd be very interested on my brother's behalf.  I'm 
still committed to FreeCAD or OpenSCAD for my piddly designs, although 
mostly I just write my simple G code by hand.




--
Mobile security can be enabling, not merely restricting. Employees who
bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
restrictions. Mobile Device Manager Plus allows you to control only the
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

> On 11 May 2016, at 20:26, Erik Friesen  wrote:
> 
> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
> powerful cam.

It costs less than that for hobby and startup use. And I think that their 
definition of "startup" is quite generous.  (Less than $100,000 per year) 
--
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bring their own devices (BYOD) to work are irked by the imposition of MDM
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

It really depends on what you want to do.   A Cam package good for 
flamecutting will likely be lousy for a lathe.
Draftsight is free and very easy to use. Do you need nesting?

Dave

On 5/11/2016 8:30 PM, Erik Friesen wrote:
> Adding another thing, every question I have asked on the forums has been
> answered in hours by Fusion people.
>
> Are there bugs?  Yes.  Ever used Alibre?
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Erik Friesen  wrote:
>
>> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
>> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
>> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
>> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
>> javascript).
>>
>> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
>> powerful cam.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:
>>
>>> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
>>> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
>>>
>>> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
>>> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
>>> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
>>> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
>>>
>>> Will need more work to do the rest.
>>>
>>> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
>>> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
>>> storage and without any USB sticks.
>>>
>>> Rudy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Erik Friesen]

Adding another thing, every question I have asked on the forums has been
answered in hours by Fusion people.

Are there bugs?  Yes.  Ever used Alibre?

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Erik Friesen  wrote:

> I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
> point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
> stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
> opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
> javascript).
>
> So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
> powerful cam.
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:
>
>> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
>> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
>>
>> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
>> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
>> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
>> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
>>
>> Will need more work to do the rest.
>>
>> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
>> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
>> storage and without any USB sticks.
>>
>> Rudy
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Erik Friesen]

I also have been trying out Fusion 360.  It has some drawbacks but at this
point I am willing to put up with them for the CAM package.  Importing an
stl from Alibre works well enough.  It puts out some decent G code in my
opinion, and the post processor is easy to modify(If you know any
javascript).

So its web based, but $300 won't buy you maintenance for any other equally
powerful cam.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 1:59 AM, rudy du preez  wrote:

> I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
> for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.
>
> I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
> and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
> work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
> upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.
>
> Will need more work to do the rest.
>
> I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
> me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
> storage and without any USB sticks.
>
> Rudy
>
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[rudy du preez]

I can also report some success with Fusion 360. I have produced some GCODE
for milling quite easily, creating the CAD model directly in Fusion 360.

I have also done some turning work, starting with the Siemens turning Post
and modifying it for LCNC. So far I have found it easy to modify. The G33
work the same is LCNC. The tool change is also easy to change and the
upfront settings as well. G71 becomes G21, G0 becomes G20, CR= becomes R.

Will need more work to do the rest.

I also found it very useful to install it on my Macbook as well. It allows
me to work at two different locations on the same project using the Cloud
storage and without any USB sticks.

Rudy


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Tom Easterday]

This thread which came and went recently prompted me to revisit Autodesk Fusion 
360 again.  It turns out I got 2 pleasant surprises.  One, they have released 
turning cam in Fusion!  And secondly, it is now free for enthusiast use.  To 
purchase it for commercial use for small business it is something like $300/yr. 
 This seems very reasonable considering I pay that for my Geomagic maintenance. 
  The CAM that is integrated is from HSM Works (which Autodesk purchased a 
while back).  I have to say it is quite a powerful CAM package.  

I have just designed and turned two parts in Fusion one as an imported model 
(.stp file format) from Geomagic and one usingFusion 360 CAD directly and with 
both I used the turning CAM functionality.  I am really impressed and pleased 
with the results.  I am using a beta post for the Tormach (PathPilot driven) 
slant-bed lathe and it is quite close to what I need.  I had to modify the post 
to get the tool change syntax to my liking and there are some features that 
need to tweaked (threading for one), but all-in-all quite nice and got me a 
bunch of useful code.

Even if you aren’t a fan of online software (I am not) I suggest you sign up 
and check it out.  If nothing else other than the use of the CAM software to 
process parts it is quite nice.

-Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks for posting that Tom.  I've been waylaid by work-work so the CNC stuff 
has fallen by the wayside.  Hopefully I can get back to it next month.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Easterday [mailto:tom-...@bgp.nu]
> Sent: September-28-15 7:00 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> This thread which came and went recently prompted me to revisit Autodesk
> Fusion 360 again.  It turns out I got 2 pleasant surprises.  One, they have
> released turning cam in Fusion!  And secondly, it is now free for enthusiast
> use.  To purchase it for commercial use for small business it is something 
> like
> $300/yr.  This seems very reasonable considering I pay that for my Geomagic
> maintenance.   The CAM that is integrated is from HSM Works (which
> Autodesk purchased a while back).  I have to say it is quite a powerful CAM
> package.
> 
> I have just designed and turned two parts in Fusion one as an imported
> model (.stp file format) from Geomagic and one usingFusion 360 CAD directly
> and with both I used the turning CAM functionality.  I am really impressed
> and pleased with the results.  I am using a beta post for the Tormach
> (PathPilot driven) slant-bed lathe and it is quite close to what I need.  I 
> had to
> modify the post to get the tool change syntax to my liking and there are
> some features that need to tweaked (threading for one), but all-in-all quite
> nice and got me a bunch of useful code.
> 
> Even if you aren�t a fan of online software (I am not) I suggest you sign up
> and check it out.  If nothing else other than the use of the CAM software to
> process parts it is quite nice.
> 
> -Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Willy Snow]

>This thread which came and went recently prompted me to revisit Autodesk
Fusion 360 again.  It >turns out I got 2 pleasant surprises.  One, they
have released turning cam in Fusion!  And >secondly, it is now free for
enthusiast use.  To purchase it for commercial use for small business >it
is something like $300/yr.  This seems very reasonable considering I pay
that for my Geomagic >maintenance.   The CAM that is integrated is from HSM
Works (which Autodesk purchased a while >back).  I have to say it is quite
a powerful CAM package.
>
>I have just designed and turned two parts in Fusion one as an imported
model (.stp file format) >from Geomagic and one usingFusion 360 CAD
directly and with both I used the turning CAM >functionality.  I am really
impressed and pleased with the results.  I am using a beta post for the
>Tormach (PathPilot driven) slant-bed lathe and it is quite close to what I
need.  I had to modify the >post to get the tool change syntax to my liking
and there are some features that need to tweaked >(threading for one), but
all-in-all quite nice and got me a bunch of useful code.
>
>Even if you aren?t a fan of online software (I am not) I suggest you sign
up and check it out.  If >nothing else other than the use of the CAM
software to process parts it is quite nice.
>
>-Tom

Wow. Let the CAD wars begin. They seem to be punching hard. They are buying
a lot of companies as well.

I am all for online software. I am just not a fan of Autodesk. Maybe I'm
not into craft beer and tats? Or maybe my fear of them Home Depoting the
CAD market?

It is good to see the competition start up again.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jon Elson]

On 09/19/2015 11:17 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> On 9/19/2015 11:56 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> But then not everyone runs closed loop servos with LinuxCNC.  Or perhaps
>> they do?
> Just a guess, but I would say that less than 25% of LinuxCNC systems run
> Servos via analog boards.
>
> Remember, you can run most modern servo drives via step and direction
> signals.
>
>
Right, not so many analog velocity servos.  I've sold 38 of 
my PPMC analog servo system.
But, then there are digital servos.  I've sold 101 of my PWM 
servo controller.  And, for comparison,
I've sold 163 of my stepper controller.  All of these except 
about 2 are used with some version of
LinuxCNC.  (Of course, I don't really know how many of these 
are actually in use...)

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[jrmitchellj .]

OOPs, sorry, that was Drafix CAD for windoze.
I do have Draftsight on my Mac & linux machines for checking 2d files.


--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Belli Button  wrote:

> Um, I don't think that was Draftsight, Draftsight is by Solidworks...
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 19/09/15 05:55, John Dammeyer wrote:
> WIN-8 and up don't support
> parallel ports or even serial ports directly. 

64bit windows does not support parallel port. Even on 32bit W10 it still
works fine ... I have some legacy kit which is still going strong but we
had to move off 32bit XP for some spurious reason ;) Running a couple of
serial ports as well, but I think they are OK on the 64bit builds as well.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 19/09/15 04:44, John Dammeyer wrote:
> My war story is 5 versions of TurboCAD before I finally realized I was
> caught into the updates were really bug fixes under the presentation of
> improvements and nothing worked right.   I started with Version 1.  Stopped
> buying it at Version 5 and I think at one point they were at version 12 or
> something.

I'm still on 15 ... but only had 12 before that ... after jumping off
the AutoCAD roundabout.

> Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head around it.

My AutoCAD 2.5 dongle surfaced a while back and we used that up to
Release13 but with cash flow tight and I think a £600 bill for next 'bug
fix' it was time to get of the roundabout. £200 for TurboCAD Pro proved
a good investment at the time.

People have mentioned 'cross-platform, and we have Eclipse for code
development and Libreoffice for the rest of the paperwork which have
been more than capable across all platforms for many years now. The
likes of FreeCAD and KiCAD could just as easily be run on windows, so
perhaps the question is 'Why not a windows version of LinuxCNC?' I'm
thinking as more of a replacement for the likes of USBCNC using
co-processors, but the co-processor could well be a beagleboard or
something similar running LinucCNC in textmode and using the 'PC' for
the graphics?

-- 
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 19 September 2015 at 04:44, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head around it.

Inventor was a total re-write as Original AutoCAD really had grown and
grown into quite a strange mess of GUI and command line. There were
three ways to do everything, and those ways might give slightly
different results.
I don't know if it is still like that, I haven't looked for years.

But, Autodesk Inventor isn't an answer to the question originally asked.

It seems that Webersys might be. I had forgotten about them when I
wrote my first reply.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Alexander Stewart]

re: Mach3/4 and LinuxCNC;

1) Andy's right - supporting hordes of users who come to an open source
project is a problem (been on the receiving end of *that* one...)

2) Andy's also right - LinuxCNC is not in competition. I'd use Mach3/4 if
LinuxCNC did not do what it was asked to do, but, LinuxCNC just works.

3) Not everybody will choose your option - after all, we have many
cars/trucks/planes/etc manufactured because each person (thankfully)
chooses their own requirements.

I appreciate Ron Ginger's comments - having met him, he's a down to earth,
bright individual, who bears listening to.

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Belli Button]

Draftsight used be available in Win, Mac and Linux. They eventually dropped
the Linux version due to very small uptake and it was free!





-Original Message-
From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk] 
Sent: 19 September 2015 10:13
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

On 19/09/15 04:44, John Dammeyer wrote:
> My war story is 5 versions of TurboCAD before I finally realized I was 
> caught into the updates were really bug fixes under the presentation of
> improvements and nothing worked right.   I started with Version 1.
Stopped
> buying it at Version 5 and I think at one point they were at version 
> 12 or something.

I'm still on 15 ... but only had 12 before that ... after jumping off the
AutoCAD roundabout.

> Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head around
it.

My AutoCAD 2.5 dongle surfaced a while back and we used that up to
Release13 but with cash flow tight and I think a £600 bill for next 'bug
fix' it was time to get of the roundabout. £200 for TurboCAD Pro proved a
good investment at the time.

People have mentioned 'cross-platform, and we have Eclipse for code
development and Libreoffice for the rest of the paperwork which have been
more than capable across all platforms for many years now. The likes of
FreeCAD and KiCAD could just as easily be run on windows, so perhaps the
question is 'Why not a windows version of LinuxCNC?' I'm thinking as more of
a replacement for the likes of USBCNC using co-processors, but the
co-processor could well be a beagleboard or something similar running
LinucCNC in textmode and using the 'PC' for the graphics?

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve -
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jack Coats]

My fuzzy crystal ball says eventually we will get small cheap controllers
for CNC.  Similar to the ones used on 3D printers.  We could download with
USB or use ethernet to download, even SDcards or usb keyfobs, but the small
controllers are used locally to manage the hardware (start/stop/jog,etc)
and run the GCode engine to drive the machine.

Shopbot has done this, but their controllers are not small or inexpensive,
and they really want you to purchase the whole rig as a single unit from
them.

This will allow you to design/build elsewhere (desktop, laptop, tablet,
cloud, download design from a 'store' - thingivese.com like), and just have
a 'run it here' model if that is your desire.  Even the Easel kind of
design software (instructables.com cloud tool, that can send designs
directly to a desktop light duty CNC machine).

This market doesn't change quickly, but it does change.  When we will see
this as the predominate mode, I don't know.

Years ago, working at one manufacturer, the design/drafting crew ran solid
works, and rendered lots of pretty images, but also code that was
downloaded to manufacturing machines directly (by the production staff, not
the designers!) from our datacenter.  All shop tools used shielded ethernet
(in conduit due to the environment) for machine communication and
monitoring.  Even they were going in the direction I suggest above for
smaller installations, but they had the budget and were doing it to
save/make big bucks.  If it didn't increase safety, reduce manpower,
decrease overall design/manufacturing time, lower inventory and sell
just-in-time manufactured components, all focused on increasing long term
profit they didn't do it. -- This tells me we will see this concept
'trickle down' over time as we upgrade how we do things in all our shops.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Belli Button]

Um, I don't think that was Draftsight, Draftsight is by Solidworks...

-Original Message-
From: jrmitchellj . [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 19 September 2015 18:12
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

I used Draftsight for many years for television facility design.  The macro 
language was wonderful!
I used it to tie into excel & other programs, to manage cable lists, BOMs, and 
other needed documentation.  I could make a change in one, and it would flow 
into the others.
Then Autodesk bought them.  They re-released it as AutoSketch, but without the 
macro language.  The rumor at the time was that it was hurting Autocad sales & 
use of Autolisp.

Ray M.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The 
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall 
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln 
<http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Abraham_Lincoln/>*, *Annual message to 
Congress, December 1, 1862* *16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 5:11 AM, Belli Button <be...@iafrica.com> wrote:

> Draftsight used be available in Win, Mac and Linux. They eventually 
> dropped the Linux version due to very small uptake and it was free!
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
> Sent: 19 September 2015 10:13
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
>
> On 19/09/15 04:44, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > My war story is 5 versions of TurboCAD before I finally realized I 
> > was caught into the updates were really bug fixes under the presentation of
> > improvements and nothing worked right.   I started with Version 1.
> Stopped
> > buying it at Version 5 and I think at one point they were at version
> > 12 or something.
>
> I'm still on 15 ... but only had 12 before that ... after jumping off 
> the AutoCAD roundabout.
>
> > Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head 
> > around
> it.
>
> My AutoCAD 2.5 dongle surfaced a while back and we used that up to
> Release13 but with cash flow tight and I think a £600 bill for next 
> 'bug fix' it was time to get of the roundabout. £200 for TurboCAD Pro 
> proved a good investment at the time.
>
> People have mentioned 'cross-platform, and we have Eclipse for code 
> development and Libreoffice for the rest of the paperwork which have 
> been more than capable across all platforms for many years now. The 
> likes of FreeCAD and KiCAD could just as easily be run on windows, so 
> perhaps the question is 'Why not a windows version of LinuxCNC?' I'm 
> thinking as more of a replacement for the likes of USBCNC using 
> co-processors, but the co-processor could well be a beagleboard or 
> something similar running LinucCNC in textmode and using the 'PC' for 
> the graphics?
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - 
> http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - 
> http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - 
> http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

It would be interesting if the next upgrade of LinuxCNC threw up a dialog
with the usual don't show this again checkbox that asked if the user would
mind if it called home with some short survey information. 

Once done, never to be launched again.  Of course any systems not on line
wouldn't be able to reply.  My system would fit into that.  But the program
could ask the user to do the survey on line on a PC that was connected to
the net.

All the information would be non-personal, public and answer questions like
types of drives. number of axis, G-ode developed with Linux or Windows
tools.

I realize you'd only get a small section of the entire group of users but it
might provide an insight into how LinuxCNC is being used.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: September-19-15 12:59 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> On 09/19/2015 11:17 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > On 9/19/2015 11:56 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> But then not everyone runs closed loop servos with LinuxCNC.  Or
> perhaps
> >> they do?
> > Just a guess, but I would say that less than 25% of LinuxCNC systems run
> > Servos via analog boards.
> >
> > Remember, you can run most modern servo drives via step and direction
> > signals.
> >
> >
> Right, not so many analog velocity servos.  I've sold 38 of
> my PPMC analog servo system.
> But, then there are digital servos.  I've sold 101 of my PWM
> servo controller.  And, for comparison,
> I've sold 163 of my stepper controller.  All of these except
> about 2 are used with some version of
> LinuxCNC.  (Of course, I don't really know how many of these
> are actually in use...)
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[jrmitchellj .]

I used Draftsight for many years for television facility design.  The macro
language was wonderful!
I used it to tie into excel & other programs, to manage cable lists, BOMs,
and other needed documentation.  I could make a change in one, and it would
flow into the others.
Then Autodesk bought them.  They re-released it as AutoSketch, but without
the macro language.  The rumor at the time was that it was hurting Autocad
sales & use of Autolisp.

Ray M.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
<http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Abraham_Lincoln/>*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 5:11 AM, Belli Button <be...@iafrica.com> wrote:

> Draftsight used be available in Win, Mac and Linux. They eventually dropped
> the Linux version due to very small uptake and it was free!
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
> Sent: 19 September 2015 10:13
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
>
> On 19/09/15 04:44, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > My war story is 5 versions of TurboCAD before I finally realized I was
> > caught into the updates were really bug fixes under the presentation of
> > improvements and nothing worked right.   I started with Version 1.
> Stopped
> > buying it at Version 5 and I think at one point they were at version
> > 12 or something.
>
> I'm still on 15 ... but only had 12 before that ... after jumping off the
> AutoCAD roundabout.
>
> > Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head around
> it.
>
> My AutoCAD 2.5 dongle surfaced a while back and we used that up to
> Release13 but with cash flow tight and I think a £600 bill for next 'bug
> fix' it was time to get of the roundabout. £200 for TurboCAD Pro proved a
> good investment at the time.
>
> People have mentioned 'cross-platform, and we have Eclipse for code
> development and Libreoffice for the rest of the paperwork which have been
> more than capable across all platforms for many years now. The likes of
> FreeCAD and KiCAD could just as easily be run on windows, so perhaps the
> question is 'Why not a windows version of LinuxCNC?' I'm thinking as more
> of
> a replacement for the likes of USBCNC using co-processors, but the
> co-processor could well be a beagleboard or something similar running
> LinucCNC in textmode and using the 'PC' for the graphics?
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve -
> http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop -
> http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
>
>
> 
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

On 9/19/2015 11:56 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> But then not everyone runs closed loop servos with LinuxCNC.  Or perhaps
> they do?

Just a guess, but I would say that less than 25% of LinuxCNC systems run 
Servos via analog boards.

Remember, you can run most modern servo drives via step and direction 
signals.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Coats [mailto:j...@coats.org]
> Sent: September-19-15 6:20 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> My fuzzy crystal ball says eventually we will get small cheap controllers
> for CNC.  Similar to the ones used on 3D printers.  We could download with
> USB or use ethernet to download, even SDcards or usb keyfobs, but the
> small
> controllers are used locally to manage the hardware (start/stop/jog,etc)
> and run the GCode engine to drive the machine.

The BeagleBone Black running MachineKIt with a Xylotex board already does
this.  But the Graphics isn't accelerated so even though it does have an
HDMI output port and USB for keyboard, mouse and even Shuttle Pro it's not
in the same ball park as a full blown LinuxCNC with Mesa hardware system.
But then not everyone runs closed loop servos with LinuxCNC.  Or perhaps
they do?

John



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 18 Sep 2015, at 19:22, Dave Cole wrote:

> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the dominant CNC
>> program out there for people who don't want a call home virus running on
>> their PC.
> 
> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem 
> for me.
> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand 
> them trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares
> away a number of potential users.
> 
As does the need for a Motion Controller, because that makes the whole package 
very much more expensive than a licensed copy of MACH3. Yes; Mach4 does have 
the option of an add-on extra cost parallel port driver, but it is clearly not 
the way they want users to go. I can understand the move to motion controllers, 
but the total cost will do nothing to persuade the MACH3 users to migrate.

Marcus

> 
> Dave
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 18/09/15 19:22, Dave Cole wrote:
> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> > What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the dominant CNC
>> > program out there for people who don't want a call home virus running on
>> > their PC.
> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem 
> for me.
> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand 
> them trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares
> away a number of potential users.

My current 'production' suite is Turbocad15, EasyPC14, vCarve5 and Mach3
oldish build. It does what I need but I've got FreeCAD and KiCAD on the
linux setup and have been trying to migrate, but neither now install as
a latest version on SUSE13.1, bring stuck a few versions back, so I've
just rebuilt the backup machine to SUSE Tumbleweed ... and that is even
more of a problem.

We definitely seem to be going backwards rather than forward? The
version of FreeCAD running on 13.1 is working fine, and while I can run
schematics in KiCAD,the only way to print is export as a pdf. One
wonders if big outfits getting involved is simply detrimental to open
source projects?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Ron Ginger]

yes, The license is tied to a PC, but a hobby user is allowed up to 5 
licenses per  year. If your machine croaks you use the web site to issue 
a new license and the automated system mails it to you in minutes. There 
is no wait for a person to respond. As long as you are under 5 licenses 
its quick and easy.

ron ginger


On 9/18/2015 6:15 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> From: "John Dammeyer"<jo...@autoartisans.com>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)'"
>   <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Message-ID:<03b201d0f25e$190526c0$4b0f7440$@autoartisans.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks Ron,
> So when the shop PC dies at 10PM Saturday night and office PC is brought in
> to replace it the license is transferrable to the new hardware immediately?
> Like in MACH3?
> Or is the license keyed to a particular hardware CPU/MEMORY/Motherboard/HARD
> DISK configuration?
> John


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[jrmitchellj .]

Has anyone looked into OnShape? (since it seems to be OS agnostic)

Ray M

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Drew Rogge  wrote:

> I'm not sure how many Tormach machines are out there but hopefully Tormach
> going with linuxcnc and therefore linux may encourage companies like
> Autodesk to support linux better. Of course they could look at the linux
> box just being a machine controller and all cad/cam work occurs on other
> operating systems.
>
> On 9/18/15 4:22 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > I'm sure it was not a happy day for the Artsoft Team when Tormach went
> to a LinuxCNC/Machinekit solution.
>
> --
> Drew Rogge
> d...@dasrogges.com
>
> Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 09/18/2015 07:41 PM, Jerry Scharf wrote:
> "you could just recompile it" does not even come close to addressing the cost 
> of releasing
> a product on a platform.

I was being deliberately flippant in my "just recompile it" statement.  
I know it's a lot more involved than that, and I assume almost everyone 
on this list knows that as well.  However, it does irk me that AutoDesk 
understood the value of cross platform development tools that in theory 
make the first step almost literally as easy as a recompile for Linux, 
but they aren't taking full advantage of the cross platform development 
tools.

I tried to explain that they didn't need to support video cards that 
don't offer Linux drivers, and many Linux customers would be willing to 
buy whatever card AutoDesk supported.

What seems crazy to me is that on average, Linux and Mac have similar 
installed bases, but small shop machining is a technical skill and I 
think it's safe to say that there are more of these technical people 
running Linux than Mac OS.  Add to that the fact that there are a few 
solid commercial CAD/CAM solutions for the Mac but not really anything 
in that class for Linux.  The small machine shop Linux market is under 
served, and given the attitude of AutoDesk and presumably their 
commercial competition, Linux will continue to be the red headed 
stepchild.  I believe in the power of the market, so I'm frustrated that 
nobody is stepping up to provide a native Linux commercial CAD/CAM 
solution.  I can see not taking the risk to develop a Linux-only 
solution, but when you have already developed it for Windows and ported 
it to the Mac, why not port it to Linux?  Are they that afraid that 
they'll make the investment and suddenly FreeCAD will leapfrog ahead of 
them?

The Evolution Of Computing In The Business World

1970:  Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
1990:  Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft.
2010: Nobody ever got fired for not supporting Linux.



> When you are a big company offering a product, some of your customers expect 
> very
> responsive support

Honestly, I think my LinuxCNC questions have received far faster and 
more accurate answers than any tech support inquiries I've made for 
commercial software, including expensive shrink wrapped software where 
the tier one tech support walks you through the troubleshooting sheet 
that starts with, "Did you put the CD in with the label up or down?"



> these are the kinds of things a big company factor into software releases on 
> different platform.

Nah.  It's the Global Anti-Linux Conspiracy.  The Massad, black 
helicopters, Knights Templar, the Free Masons... they're all in on it.

:-)





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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jack Coats]

I do like the idea of being architecture agnostic.

My only issue with ANY cloud service provider, is you are just buying
time/service on their computers.

Remember Cloud just means: Someone elses computer.

There is nothing magic or solid about them if your network connection (or
theirs) goes out, or if their business gets shut down.
At least with license on your computer, you can still run if they are
hacked or you don't have connectivity.

... I'm pretty sensitive to that as I can only get satellite internet
connection that is tinuous.  No cable or DSL or WISP available.



On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 7:30 PM, jrmitchellj . 
wrote:

> Has anyone looked into OnShape? (since it seems to be OS agnostic)
>
> Ray M
>
> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> jrmitche...@gmail.com
> (818)324-7573
>
>
> The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
> occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
> As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
> ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
> *, *Annual message
> to Congress, December 1, 1862*
> *16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Drew Rogge  wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure how many Tormach machines are out there but hopefully
> Tormach
> > going with linuxcnc and therefore linux may encourage companies like
> > Autodesk to support linux better. Of course they could look at the linux
> > box just being a machine controller and all cad/cam work occurs on other
> > operating systems.
> >
> > On 9/18/15 4:22 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > > I'm sure it was not a happy day for the Artsoft Team when Tormach went
> > to a LinuxCNC/Machinekit solution.
> >
> > --
> > Drew Rogge
> > d...@dasrogges.com
> >
> > Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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-- 
><> ... Jack

The Four Boxes of Liberty - "There are four boxes to be used in the defense
of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order."
"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23
"Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
Albert Einstein
"You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." - Admiral
Grace Hopper, USN
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Len Shelton]

On 9/18/2015 4:38 PM, Ron Ginger wrote:
> In the commercial world users are not scared off by licenses, they are
> running a business and understand it costs to get the kind of commercial
> grade product they want. Mach4 is already in wide use by many OEMs. The
> hobby side is not the focus.
>
>

In the commercial world...   I feel sorry for any business actively 
promoting and supporting Mach3/4. We spend 90% of our tech support time 
with Mach3 issues yet only about 10% of our customers even use it 
because we actively promote LinuxCNC.

 >Len



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Drew Rogge]

I'm not sure how many Tormach machines are out there but hopefully Tormach 
going with linuxcnc and therefore linux may encourage companies like Autodesk 
to support linux better. Of course they could look at the linux box just being 
a machine controller and all cad/cam work occurs on other operating systems.

On 9/18/15 4:22 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
> I'm sure it was not a happy day for the Artsoft Team when Tormach went to a 
> LinuxCNC/Machinekit solution. 

-- 
Drew Rogge
d...@dasrogges.com

Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jack Coats]

I went to a conference back before Oracle ran on Linux and ran on an Oracle
admin/developer.  He said he had been running Oracle on his desktop
(remember those?  right? ... well this was in the last millennium).  He had
been running oracle on his machine for personal hacking on it for over a
year.  It was a marketing decision (at that time Linux was not considered
"Data Center Worthy"(tm).  He said he didn't need to fix anything or even
change libraries, it just compiled and ran without a hitch.

I am sure marketing decisions included bringing support and sales folks 'up
to speed', not an insignificant investment, but the NIH/Data Center Worth
issues were more of a blocking factor for that product.

I am sure other products are similar in nature.

...

Talking to the creator of CamBam way back when.  He basically wrote it for
Windows.  Converting to Linux was non-trivial, where going the other way
seems to be easier.  CamBam is basically a one man band.  I have nothing
against small developers, but as a customer, I assume some risks that
aren't there with many larger concerns.  Oracle/IBM/M$/etc won't close the
doors in one quarter if the balance sheet or health of the proprietor can
if business goes sideways.  Most won't but it is still a risk to consider.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

This could easily degrade into a 'religious' discussion so I'll leave it
with these points.

Clearly I'm not in favour of web based licensing.  

If I insert  the Alibre distribution disk that came with the software I
purchased a few years ago not surprisingly that version will no longer run.
After all, 3D Systems bought it.  The name changed to Geomagic.  Licenses
are no longer available.  Buy a new copy.  

The VisualCAM MecSoft plugin is being discontinued but at least the
VisualCAM dongle will continue to work with the existing dongled version of
the Geomagic software.  Stuck in time but at least workable while I have
WIN-7 systems.  Until the dongle fails.

I have a Quickbooks software package I had not yet installed and a year
later finally decided I really should change my accounting system.  Guess
what.  That software won't install anymore either.  Too old and the on line
licensing has changed.  No problem.  Just buy the latest for $.

So if I sound bitter it's because the promises and testimonials of great
support and ease of use vanish with the change in ownership or model of a
company.  I won't be buying MACH4.  I spent a day re-aligning my CNC router
because suddenly MACH3 and the USB SS decided to run the Z axis past then
end of the table.  A Windows Reboot made the problem go away.   So now I'm
looking seriously at LinuxCNC.

I don't expect LinuxCNC to be any better but at least if it happens in 5
years the licensing model won't prevent me from fixing it.

Five years from now MACH4 sales may be so poor that the company just
vanishes or is bought by a single supplier who drives it in a different
direction.

John

> yes, The license is tied to a PC, but a hobby user is allowed up to 5
> licenses per  year. If your machine croaks you use the web site to issue
> a new license and the automated system mails it to you in minutes. There
> is no wait for a person to respond. As long as you are under 5 licenses
> its quick and easy.
> 
> ron ginger
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[jrmitchellj .]

I started using FlatCAM last December. I think it was version 7.0.   At
that it was lacking several needed features.  It is now at version 8.3.
I emailed the author with some of the feature I was in need of, and also
asked where I could send a check to cover his efforts.
A couple days later, I got a notice of a new release, but never go an
answer on where to send the check.
He has been quick to fix issues as they are reported to him.   FlatCAM.org

Ray M.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 3:50 PM, Jeremy Jones  wrote:

> Does anyone use SolidCAM or know of a reliable post processor for it? I
> found one but haven't had time to try it to see if it works. My buddy has
> SolidCAM I can use but HSMExpress has been working fine. Would like
> something for 3d toolpaths though.
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Bruce Layne  >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 09/18/2015 05:22 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > > I just noticed that in the Autodesk store you can actually click on a
> > Penguin:
> > > http://store.autodesk.co.uk/store/adsk/en_GB/DisplayHomePage
> >
> > Autodesk definitely seems to be making a strong push into the large
> > market of small shop users with some of their products and marketing in
> > the last few years, probably after SolidWorks ate their lunch.  I was
> > encouraged by AutoDesk's recent shift in marketing strategy and went
> > onto their forum to encourage them to gain a competitive edge by
> > providing solutions to the Linux and LinuxCNC community that is under
> > served in the the CAD/CAM marketplace.  However, the AutoDesk
> > representative was very dismissive.  Despite my effort to make a strong
> > and realistic business case, I was hit with the same old nonsense.
> > Linux users refuse to pay for software, so AutoDesk won't spend any time
> > developing software for Linux users even though they deliberately
> > selected cross platform development tools to make it easier to develop
> > products for Windows and Mac, and Linux wouldn't take much additional
> > effort.  They seemed to have a religious aversion to Linux.  It reminded
> > me of Microsoft comparing Linux to cancer.  I tried to explain that BY
> > FAR the most expensive software I've ever purchased was electronic CAD
> > software that I bought specifically because it ran as native Linux code,
> > but my first person example was simply ignored and AutoDesk continued
> > with that old saw about Linux users not paying for software.
> >
> > Several of us who were advocating for Linux support on the AutoDesk
> > forum were summarily dismissed in a manner that felt like ridicule and
> > derision.  It's a lost opportunity for AutoDesk.  Despite their recent
> > products targeting the large market consisting of small shops, I guess
> > they still don't understand their market and they'll continue to lose
> > out on some low hanging fruit.  They'd apparently prefer to compete in a
> > crowded corner of a very competitive market rather than recompile their
> > existing products for the Linux market that would be grateful for a
> > serious CAD/CAM product.  This seems nuts to me, considering the
> > incremental cost of selling another copy of commercial software is very
> > low and adding loyal Linux customers would greatly contribute to paying
> > their significant development costs.
> >
> > I'll continue to write G code by hand, use PyCam, and play with FreeCAD
> > while waiting for it to mature.  I like where it's going.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 19 September 2015 at 00:22, Dave Cole  wrote:
> Most of us were only aware of the change after it happened,

Well, when Tormach turned up at the Wichita fest there was a bit of a hint..

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Len Shelton]

On 9/18/2015 4:38 PM, Ron Ginger wrote:
> In the commercial world users are not scared off by licenses, they are
> running a business and understand it costs to get the kind of commercial
> grade product they want. Mach4 is already in wide use by many OEMs. The
> hobby side is not the focus.
>
>

In the commercial world...   I feel sorry for any business actively 
promoting and supporting Mach3/4. We spend 90% of our tech support time 
with Mach3 issues yet only about 10% of our customers even use it 
because we actively promote LinuxCNC. LinuxCNC just works.

 >Len

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jerry Scharf]

Hi,

I've been on both sides of these discussions.

This is not a defence of Autodesk, but this type of "you could just
recompile it" does not even come close to addressing the cost of releasing
a product on a platform. You need development team members conversant with
the new platform, which is serious cost. When you add a new platform,
testing and debugging are probably 10x the cost of the initial port. Then
you have a code train that has to keep up with the main source code,
meaning you pay the testing cost for every release. Even that is not the
biggest issue.

IMO, the biggest issue is one of support and support staffing. When you are
a big company offering a product, some of your customers expect very
responsive support, so that becomes the base of your support model. In that
model, adding a platform means either retraining or adding staff capable of
providing support on the new platform. This is based on the time zones as
well as demand.

It goes on and on, but these are the kinds of things a big company factor
into software releases on different platform. It's easier to just dismiss
it rather than doing the entire cost justification calculation.

jerry


On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Bruce Layne 
wrote:

>
>
> On 09/18/2015 05:22 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > I just noticed that in the Autodesk store you can actually click on a
> Penguin:
> > http://store.autodesk.co.uk/store/adsk/en_GB/DisplayHomePage
>
> Autodesk definitely seems to be making a strong push into the large
> market of small shop users with some of their products and marketing in
> the last few years, probably after SolidWorks ate their lunch.  I was
> encouraged by AutoDesk's recent shift in marketing strategy and went
> onto their forum to encourage them to gain a competitive edge by
> providing solutions to the Linux and LinuxCNC community that is under
> served in the the CAD/CAM marketplace.  However, the AutoDesk
> representative was very dismissive.  Despite my effort to make a strong
> and realistic business case, I was hit with the same old nonsense.
> Linux users refuse to pay for software, so AutoDesk won't spend any time
> developing software for Linux users even though they deliberately
> selected cross platform development tools to make it easier to develop
> products for Windows and Mac, and Linux wouldn't take much additional
> effort.  They seemed to have a religious aversion to Linux.  It reminded
> me of Microsoft comparing Linux to cancer.  I tried to explain that BY
> FAR the most expensive software I've ever purchased was electronic CAD
> software that I bought specifically because it ran as native Linux code,
> but my first person example was simply ignored and AutoDesk continued
> with that old saw about Linux users not paying for software.
>
> Several of us who were advocating for Linux support on the AutoDesk
> forum were summarily dismissed in a manner that felt like ridicule and
> derision.  It's a lost opportunity for AutoDesk.  Despite their recent
> products targeting the large market consisting of small shops, I guess
> they still don't understand their market and they'll continue to lose
> out on some low hanging fruit.  They'd apparently prefer to compete in a
> crowded corner of a very competitive market rather than recompile their
> existing products for the Linux market that would be grateful for a
> serious CAD/CAM product.  This seems nuts to me, considering the
> incremental cost of selling another copy of commercial software is very
> low and adding loyal Linux customers would greatly contribute to paying
> their significant development costs.
>
> I'll continue to write G code by hand, use PyCam, and play with FreeCAD
> while waiting for it to mature.  I like where it's going.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Ron Ginger]

Having spent most of my career in marketing (for DEC) I well remember 
all the market research we tried to do to determine volumes and user 
base. For all you might say about Autodesk I do not think they are dumb, 
someone there has done some careful market analysis to see if they ought 
to do a linux version.

One of the very hard things about linuxCnc is that it is impossible to 
know how many sites are really using it. Clearly you cannot simply count 
the number of downloads of  the software- many of them were never 
installed, or do not continue to be used.

I am certainly happy it is not my job to estimate the linuxCNC market 
share- I would not know how to do that with any useful accuracy.

ron ginger


> From: Bruce Layne <linux...@thinkingdevices.com>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>   <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Message-ID: <55fc91a8.4070...@thinkingdevices.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
..
> Several of us who were advocating for Linux support on the AutoDesk
> forum were summarily dismissed in a manner that felt like ridicule and
> derision.  It's a lost opportunity for AutoDesk.  Despite their recent
> products targeting the large market consisting of small shops, I guess
> they still don't understand their market and they'll continue to lose
> out on some low hanging fruit.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Karlsson & Wang]

> > So with MACH3 turning into a networked licensed (must be internet
> > connected)

The machine will not start without an internet connection ?

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Jason Burton  wrote:
> I haven't needed to run offline, though I hear it will.  It's been a treat
> so far, though I've just started making parts for my startup.  Also, comes
> with a linuxcnc postprocessor (it is called EMC in the post list).
>
> Best,
> Jason

Yabut, it's still a Winders based program, isn't it?

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the dominant CNC
> program out there for people who don't want a call home virus running on
> their PC.

I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem 
for me.
The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand 
them trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares
away a number of potential users.


Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jeremy Jones]

I've been using HSM Express a lot. Works well in solidworks with a LinuxCNC
(EMC) post and the 2.5D is free. Been meaning to try Fusion 360 just need
to free up some space on my drive.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Belli Button <be...@iafrica.com> wrote:

> I just grabbed this off the M4 website:
>
> "What's new for Version #2:   .  and better security to protect users
> from dealing with pirated copies and the errors and performance issues they
> include."
>
> "Important - Version 2 requires a new license file to operate."
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 18 September 2015 20:22
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
>
> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the
> > dominant CNC program out there for people who don't want a call home
> > virus running on their PC.
>
> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem
> for me.
> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand them
> trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares away
> a
> number of potential users.
>
>
> Dave
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 18 September 2015 20:52:34 John Dammeyer wrote:

> This could easily degrade into a 'religious' discussion so I'll leave
> it with these points.
>
> Clearly I'm not in favour of web based licensing.
>
> If I insert  the Alibre distribution disk that came with the software
> I purchased a few years ago not surprisingly that version will no
> longer run. After all, 3D Systems bought it.  The name changed to
> Geomagic.  Licenses are no longer available.  Buy a new copy.
>
> The VisualCAM MecSoft plugin is being discontinued but at least the
> VisualCAM dongle will continue to work with the existing dongled
> version of the Geomagic software.  Stuck in time but at least workable
> while I have WIN-7 systems.  Until the dongle fails.
>
I have some lengthy and unpleasant memories of failed dongles.  We bought 
a rather expensive vlan based system from Ring Video Systems, down in 
FL. $25,000 for about $1500 in hardware, including a dongle we had to 
attach to the parport of the full box Amiga it ran on.

First dongle died in around 6 months, took some unpleasant phone calls 
both from us and a friendly attorney client of the station to convince 
them we had a fully licensed copy, so we were down and unable to edit 
commercials for about a month, costing us between 10 and 20k in 
production billings for that month.  The replacement dongle died in 
about 5 weeks.  Called them again, but the outfit had changed hands and 
they no longer had the ability to make a new dongle.  I gave them 4 days 
to produce one so they went to the old outfit and begged the last 
surviving dongle on the planet from them.

It worked for about an hour.  I called and asked for a dongle free 
version, they hemmed and hawwed for several hours, and sent me a disk, 
overnite fedexed.  But they didn't excise it well enough. So my next 
phone call told them that they were a bunch of idiots, and that I knew a 
guy in DE land who could strip it.  They said we'll sue. I said that 
sort of threats from you, given the track record will be null and void 
in court and we will sue for harrassment and loss of services costs.  
Bunch of blather & name calling.  I hung up in the middle of it and 
fixed a disk to send to DE by the fastest airmail I could round up.  2 
days later I had that disk and a new one back, gratis, and it worked 
better than it ever had before until we had worn out the editing 
machines and had bought a pallet of Panasonic DVC-PRO's.  And we were 
actually more productive with their editor accessory.  The state of the 
art had indeed moved on.  Now of course all that is done in digital on a 
hard drive or 3.

And we never heard another peep out of that bunch of lusers.

> I have a Quickbooks software package I had not yet installed and a
> year later finally decided I really should change my accounting
> system.  Guess what.  That software won't install anymore either.  Too
> old and the on line licensing has changed.  No problem.  Just buy the
> latest for $.

I presume that discovered a piece of your mind that was surplus so you 
had no problem giving it to them gratis?

> So if I sound bitter it's because the promises and testimonials of
> great support and ease of use vanish with the change in ownership or
> model of a company.  I won't be buying MACH4.  I spent a day
> re-aligning my CNC router because suddenly MACH3 and the USB SS
> decided to run the Z axis past then end of the table.  A Windows
> Reboot made the problem go away.   So now I'm looking seriously at
> LinuxCNC.
>
> I don't expect LinuxCNC to be any better but at least if it happens in
> 5 years the licensing model won't prevent me from fixing it.
>
> Five years from now MACH4 sales may be so poor that the company just
> vanishes or is bought by a single supplier who drives it in a
> different direction.
>
> John

War stories, John.

> > yes, The license is tied to a PC, but a hobby user is allowed up to
> > 5 licenses per  year. If your machine croaks you use the web site to
> > issue a new license and the automated system mails it to you in
> > minutes. There is no wait for a person to respond. As long as you
> > are under 5 licenses its quick and easy.
> >
> > ron ginger
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

I did an installation as you describe.   The control cabinet has two 
PCs, one runs LinuxCNC, the other Windows 7 with Cam software.  Both PCs 
are on the network.   Part files are sent from a remote cad system to 
the Cam PC running windows, and gcode is generated while the operator 
waits for the previously processed part to be cut on the CNC machine.   
The Cam software shoves the gcode file to a folder share on the LinuxCNC 
box.   The operator has a two headed console - one 24" screen for each 
PC.Compared to everything else the PC hardware cost is almost 
insignificant. The two headed Nema 12 console cost more than the PC 
hardware. The customer didn't care what OS did what and they got the 
functionality they wanted.
The LinuxCNC software is bulletproof.

Between virtual machines and cheap PC hardware, there is a lot of 
flexibility.

Microsoft has recently admitted that the Microsoft "Cloud" is running 
with Linux boxes.
http://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-cloud/?mbid=nl_91815

Dave


On 9/18/2015 8:18 PM, Drew Rogge wrote:
> I'm not sure how many Tormach machines are out there but hopefully Tormach 
> going with linuxcnc and therefore linux may encourage companies like Autodesk 
> to support linux better. Of course they could look at the linux box just 
> being a machine controller and all cad/cam work occurs on other operating 
> systems.
>
> On 9/18/15 4:22 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> I'm sure it was not a happy day for the Artsoft Team when Tormach went to a 
>> LinuxCNC/Machinekit solution.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 18 September 2015 23:52:56 Kyle Kerr wrote:

> I have no knowledge or connection with Weber systems, but, I have not
> seen their synergy CAD/CAM package mentioned. Any reason?
> http://www.webersys.com/

I downloaded a 30 day free demo about 5 years back, couldn't even make 
sense of the examples supplied.  Then the nasty pay me emails started 
flooding in. I don't know if it calls home or what, but it was about a 
year after I had nuked that whole install directory that they finally 
gave up.  No spam now for about 2 years.

It may well be, if you can get your head around it, a good tool.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Geg,

My war story is 5 versions of TurboCAD before I finally realized I was
caught into the updates were really bug fixes under the presentation of
improvements and nothing worked right.   I started with Version 1.  Stopped
buying it at Version 5 and I think at one point they were at version 12 or
something.

Autocad for me was always a disaster.  Just couldn't get my head around it.


I rediscovered CAD with Alibre.  Suddenly drawing was easy and the price
reasonable.  Then came the upgrades with all the tool buttons that make no
sense.  Hover the mouse over it and get the help message that explains what
the tool button does.  A step backwards as far as I saw.  Assemblies were
another change that are no longer intuitive for the way my brain works.  The
tutorial video disks I bought became useless because the software changed.
But I couldn't go back to the older version because the licensing had
changed.

I saw the GIBBs on their web site.  Was wondering if that was new and maybe
that was why they've dropped support of MecSoft.  I didn't like what I saw
in the demo stuff anyway.

Today I ran the MecSoft VisualMill Standalone product importing my latest
project as an stp file.  It's a bit more extensive than the plug in.  Usage
about the same.  Scariest part was really just selecting the lines or parts
that the CAM is supposed to work within our around.  With the Plugin it's
easy to just to go the list of objects and select on the CAD side.  The
stand alone is much more difficult.  Not impossible.  But more difficult.

>From the looks of the messages on this thread though there is really nothing
like the Alibre/Mecsoft bundle out there on Linux.  Especially not with
sheet metal and assemblies and some of the other Alibre features.

John

> As to GEOMAGIC - Keep in mind the parent company 3D Systems bought out
> Gibbs - as in Virtual Gibbs CAD/CAM which used to be an OEM installed
> option on FADAL CNC mills. In looking at Gibbs now it looks antiquated
still
> being more wireframe based (like my really old BOBCAD). Honestly I think
> they should support both the Visualmill plugin and the external (for now)
> Gibbs CAM because they use very different methods. A MasterCAM user is
> NOT going to be happy with Gibbs as is, but would not be too lost to work
> with the VisualCAM plugin.
> 
> 3D Systems is going to loose 2 sales (Geomagic + Gibbs) instead of just
one
> (Geomagic + Visualmill).
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

On 9/18/2015 8:52 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> I spent a day re-aligning my CNC router
> because suddenly MACH3 and the USB SS decided to run the Z axis past then
> end of the table.  A Windows Reboot made the problem go away.

That's why Mach4 had to be a total rewrite.   If the bugs can't be 
found, you have to start over.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Greg Bentzinger]

Best buy I ever made was BOBCAD in about 1990. Cost me $495.

Bought it from a dealer at the WESTEC tool show in Los Angeles. Later I bought 
an update to BOBCAD Gold Version 12 (for DOS) This was another $49 + $20 for 
FEDEX.

At some point BOBCAD called me up and sold me Version 14, but the shipped 
Dongal would not work so that install was aborted, eventually I did get a 
working dongal.

Another shop wanted to try BOBCAD so I installed Ver 14 on a spare PC and let 
them play with it for 3 months. When they return the PC and dongal it went into 
storage and was eventually lost. (no tears here, no big loss) All this time I 
had been cranking out good G-code and basic prints from version 12. Version 12 
did not use any activation codes or hardware dongals - it just did what it was 
intended to do - allow the user to put out good G-code.

It is still my first choice goto for most 2.5D work. Often I can be loading the 
code into the CNC and setting offsets before I could have finished a 3D model 
in my Geomagic, and I too have the Mechsoft Visualcam plug-in - with has good 
3D support while the Idiots who market it want you to buy the super delux 
version to get it to be able to use a simple corner rounding endmill which is a 
2.5D only type tool. BTW, I need to program a CREM I switch to my BOBCAD V12 
for DOS and its done in no time.

For Linux, or Windows - I load a little app called DOS Box - it is a DOS 
emulator for people who want to play legacy DOS games. BOBCAD works perfect 
except for the DNC serial app. which I have not tested.

BOBCAD for windows has been a perpetual disaster since the initial Version 15 
was launched. Yup I bought it, so I can say total garbage. And the BC sales 
dept - They are the worst.

BOBCAD v12 for DOS - been cranking out the code for me for 25 years now and I 
don't see that changing any time soon, I really got my money's worth.

As to GEOMAGIC - Keep in mind the parent company 3D Systems bought out Gibbs - 
as in Virtual Gibbs CAD/CAM which used to be an OEM installed option on FADAL 
CNC mills. In looking at Gibbs now it looks antiquated still being more 
wireframe based (like my really old BOBCAD). Honestly I think they should 
support both the Visualmill plugin and the external (for now) Gibbs CAM because 
they use very different methods. A MasterCAM user is NOT going to be happy with 
Gibbs as is, but would not be too lost to work with the VisualCAM plugin. 

3D Systems is going to loose 2 sales (Geomagic + Gibbs) instead of just one 
(Geomagic + Visualmill).

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Given that Warp9 and the MACH people appear to be pushing the Ethernet
version of the SS odds are the real problem is with the USB interface and
that isn't going to be fixed with either MACH4 or WIN-8 or WIN-10^24. 

I like my Probotix interface board.  I like the idea of the USB SS to
Probotix interface.  I could see changing to the Ethernet version.  But the
SS isn't supported in the LinuxCNC environment so I guess it's a moot point.

As for rewriting MACH.  Here's my prediction.  
"MACH4 will eventually be sold to a single manufacturer much like 3D Systems
purchased Alibre.  That manufacturer, will for a short time, continue to
support the hobby market while they restructure what MACH4 does.  At that
point other competitors will be shut out."  The hobby market will be left to
their own devices.

And who cares really?  A BeagleBone Black, Xylotex and MachineKit with an
HDMI screen does easily what the older 400MHz Pentiums were doing with
Linux.  And the Beagle at 1GHz costs $60.  

The days of the dedicated PC to save money by doing both the graphical
rendering and the machine control are over.   WIN-8 and up don't support
parallel ports or even serial ports directly.   As I understand it even the
higher end Linux Systems use add on board for the encoders and other I/O.

Dating myself a bit I recall a discussion with a friend in one of the
computer stores.  He argued, unsuccessfully I think, that where discrete
logic would work it was overkill to use a processor what with RAM and EPROM
costs.  I debated that if the solution was easier with a processor then why
use discrete logic.Flash memory and the 8 pin PIC and ATMEL families
have demonstrated that solution is more viable than multiple logic gates.

So it will be with CNC.  The Beagle or any other dedicated ARM or PIC32
processor is the future for the CNC control of machines. The user interfaces
will be the technology that now exists in the tablets with touch pads.

And here's the kicker.  When we were busy saving money using MACH2 and a PC
with parallel port or diving into a fairly crude EMC on Linux Fedora we were
spending well over $1000.  Now we complain if the costs of the whole CNC
system are above $500.  I won't even start with what a simple Pentium 66
Packard Bell Computer cost when we bought a PC for our kids.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-18-15 7:06 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> On 9/18/2015 8:52 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I spent a day re-aligning my CNC router
> > because suddenly MACH3 and the USB SS decided to run the Z axis past
> then
> > end of the table.  A Windows Reboot made the problem go away.
> 
> That's why Mach4 had to be a total rewrite.   If the bugs can't be
> found, you have to start over.
> 
> Dave
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Kyle Kerr]

I have no knowledge or connection with Weber systems, but, I have not seen
their synergy CAD/CAM package mentioned. Any reason?
http://www.webersys.com/

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015, 10:07 PM Dave Cole  wrote:

> On 9/18/2015 8:52 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > I spent a day re-aligning my CNC router
> > because suddenly MACH3 and the USB SS decided to run the Z axis past then
> > end of the table.  A Windows Reboot made the problem go away.
>
> That's why Mach4 had to be a total rewrite.   If the bugs can't be
> found, you have to start over.
>
> Dave
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[hubert]

I have been following this thread and finally decided to pitch the 
CAD/CAM solution that I have been using since 2008 after I converted my 
first mill to EMC2.  It is Synergy by Weber Systems. 
http://www.webersys.com/.  It has been around longer than Windows and 
DOS with Unix roots.  It has native code for linux as well as 
MSwindows.  You can download a full featured 30 day trial for Ubuntu and 
Debian plus a variety of others.  In my case I prefer a different 
version of linux and they downloaded and compiled a version for me on my 
machine, so I didn't have to match one of the pre-compiled versions.  
For basic use they have a free version.  I wanted to use a full featured 
version for anything I dreamed up so I payed, one time for the full 
system.  When I have questions I talk directly to the people who 
developed the software, they have taught me more about CNC programing 
than anybody else.  I have looked at some of the others but not really 
tried any since I have been happy with this solution.

Hubert



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Ron,
So when the shop PC dies at 10PM Saturday night and office PC is brought in
to replace it the license is transferrable to the new hardware immediately?
Like in MACH3?
Or is the license keyed to a particular hardware CPU/MEMORY/Motherboard/HARD
DISK configuration?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Ron Ginger [mailto:rongin...@roadrunner.com]
> Sent: September-18-15 2:39 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> Mach4 does not in any way 'phone home'. Although the code is different
> it works exactly as mach3- you get a license file mailed to you and you
> install it once and it lasts forever.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 9/18/2015 8:58 AM, Willy Snow wrote:
> I second Onshape for CAD. The price is right. I actually love the fact that
> it is online. No PDM, No Server, No CAD Station, No Video Card, No Crashes
> (they just swap servers). Sharing is a breeze. I am sure they can do
> security better than me.

The best security is not having a system with any connection to any 
other computer, and only allowing trusted people to have physical access 
to it.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Sorry Ron,
Didn't read down far enough.  You did state it was keyed to the hardware.  
My apologies.  
But then to be fair one shouldn't say it's just like the MACH3 license
because it's not.  That the world isn't honest is beside the point.  It's
not the same license.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-18-15 3:05 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> 
> 
> Thanks Ron,
> So when the shop PC dies at 10PM Saturday night and office PC is brought
in
> to replace it the license is transferrable to the new hardware
immediately?
> Like in MACH3?
> Or is the license keyed to a particular hardware
> CPU/MEMORY/Motherboard/HARD
> DISK configuration?
> John
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ron Ginger [mailto:rongin...@roadrunner.com]
> > Sent: September-18-15 2:39 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> >
> >
> > Mach4 does not in any way 'phone home'. Although the code is different
> > it works exactly as mach3- you get a license file mailed to you and you
> > install it once and it lasts forever.
> 
> 
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 09/18/2015 05:22 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> I just noticed that in the Autodesk store you can actually click on a Penguin:
> http://store.autodesk.co.uk/store/adsk/en_GB/DisplayHomePage

Autodesk definitely seems to be making a strong push into the large 
market of small shop users with some of their products and marketing in 
the last few years, probably after SolidWorks ate their lunch.  I was 
encouraged by AutoDesk's recent shift in marketing strategy and went 
onto their forum to encourage them to gain a competitive edge by 
providing solutions to the Linux and LinuxCNC community that is under 
served in the the CAD/CAM marketplace.  However, the AutoDesk 
representative was very dismissive.  Despite my effort to make a strong 
and realistic business case, I was hit with the same old nonsense.  
Linux users refuse to pay for software, so AutoDesk won't spend any time 
developing software for Linux users even though they deliberately 
selected cross platform development tools to make it easier to develop 
products for Windows and Mac, and Linux wouldn't take much additional 
effort.  They seemed to have a religious aversion to Linux.  It reminded 
me of Microsoft comparing Linux to cancer.  I tried to explain that BY 
FAR the most expensive software I've ever purchased was electronic CAD 
software that I bought specifically because it ran as native Linux code, 
but my first person example was simply ignored and AutoDesk continued 
with that old saw about Linux users not paying for software.

Several of us who were advocating for Linux support on the AutoDesk 
forum were summarily dismissed in a manner that felt like ridicule and 
derision.  It's a lost opportunity for AutoDesk.  Despite their recent 
products targeting the large market consisting of small shops, I guess 
they still don't understand their market and they'll continue to lose 
out on some low hanging fruit.  They'd apparently prefer to compete in a 
crowded corner of a very competitive market rather than recompile their 
existing products for the Linux market that would be grateful for a 
serious CAD/CAM product.  This seems nuts to me, considering the 
incremental cost of selling another copy of commercial software is very 
low and adding loyal Linux customers would greatly contribute to paying 
their significant development costs.

I'll continue to write G code by hand, use PyCam, and play with FreeCAD 
while waiting for it to mature.  I like where it's going.




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 21:41, Jeremy Jones  wrote:
> I've been using HSM Express a lot. Works well in solidworks with a LinuxCNC
> (EMC) post and the 2.5D is free.

The only problem with it, is that is it only works integrated into
SolidWorks or Inventor.
Inside those environments it is very good, and the Pro (which you can
try on trial) is stunning.

Maybe I am biased, but I can actually imagine someone paying £7500 for
their CAD and £3100/year CAM using LinuxCNC, because of the control
you have over it, and that it makes parts about as well as the
commercial competition. I don't feel the same about any of the FOSS
CAD/CAM offerings. I suspect that this is because supporting G-code
(which is fundamentally what LinuxCNC does) is a _lot_ easier than
building a good CAD or CAM system.

I just noticed that in the Autodesk store you can actually click on a Penguin:
http://store.autodesk.co.uk/store/adsk/en_GB/DisplayHomePage

Though from that point on, in Mac Safari or Windows Chrome the product
links don't work. And it doesn't work at all with Windows/IE8, so I am
out of browsers. Well done Autodesk :-/

(that link doesn't seem likely to work, look at the "Platform" selector)

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

Thanks for clarifying that Ron.  I would have expected the Mach3/4 group 
to go ballistic with a "phone home" scheme.   I thought they might have 
gone soft.  ;-)

 >>In the commercial world users are not scared off by licenses, they 
are running a business and understand it costs to get the kind of 
commercial grade product they want.

I don't know of an engineer who does not abhor licensing schemes that require 
handshakes with servers and secret codes to activate software.
At some point those schemes will shut things down.  Its only a matter of time.

>>Mach4 is already in wide use by many OEMs. The hobby side is not the focus.

Good. What OEMs are using Mach4?

Dave




On 9/18/2015 5:38 PM, Ron Ginger wrote:
> Mach4 does not in any way 'phone home'. Although the code is different
> it works exactly as mach3- you get a license file mailed to you and you
> install it once and it lasts forever.
>
> There was a recent change made to the license code which required a new
> license, so guys using the first version of Mach4 had to use the web
> site to get a new license. The hobby version allows you to self-issue up
> to 5 licenses in a year. Each license is tied to a PC by some code that
> looks at many things, including a MAC address of an ethernet card.
>
> The license is a small pain, but once loaded you are done with it. If
> the world was more honest a license would not be necessary.
>
> In the commercial world users are not scared off by licenses, they are
> running a business and understand it costs to get the kind of commercial
> grade product they want. Mach4 is already in wide use by many OEMs. The
> hobby side is not the focus.
>
> I am not trying to push Mach on this list, I simply want the facts to be
> clear and to try to kill off rumors.
>
> ron ginger
>
>
> On 9/18/2015 3:39 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 14:22:27 -0400
>> From: Dave Cole<linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
>> To:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Message-ID:<55fc5663.2000...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>>> What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the dominant CNC
>>>> program out there for people who don't want a call home virus running on
>>>> their PC.
>> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem
>> for me.
>> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand
>> them trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares
>> away a number of potential users.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 9/18/2015 4:35 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
>
>
> Despite my effort to make a strong
> and realistic business case, I was hit with the same old nonsense.
> Linux users refuse to pay for software, so AutoDesk won't spend any time
> developing software for Linux users even though they deliberately
> selected cross platform development tools to make it easier to develop
> products for Windows and Mac, and Linux wouldn't take much additional
> effort.  They seemed to have a religious aversion to Linux.

Years ago, I stumbled upon the online journal (this was probably 10 
years before people started calling them blogs) of one of the guys who 
started AutoCAD.

Especially interesting was a letter to the then current owners of 
AutoCAD telling them to not bother with yet again using a hardware copy 
protection dongle. He detailed how much time, effort and money he'd 
wasted the first time doing that - only to have a crack available at 
least a week before release and that version of AutoCAD panned as the 
worst ever. He said he should have put all that wasted effort and time 
into AutoCAD rather than the copy protection.

Copy protection is just like a law. Them that won't obey it aren't going 
to, no matter what tricks you can come up with to try and stop them.

The worst mass marketed copy protection is CSS (Content Scrambling 
System) used on DVD video. Sony, Phillips and friends massively 
under-estimated the potential number of companies who would be producing 
DVDs. They came up with only 40 different security keys for CSS. Then to 
be able to have the descrambling work, every DVD player and DVD-ROM 
drive had to have all 40 keys somewhere in them. That's like making a 
lock then handing *everyone* a set of the keys. Once that "secret" was 
discovered it was trivial for someone to find and extract the key codes 
from a DVD player then reverse engineer the scrambling algorithm.

Since CSS was broken from the get-go, publishers have tried (and seen 
broken) all kinds of formatting trickery on the discs. What makes it 
difficult is that every DVD made must be playable on every DVD player or 
DVD-ROM drive ever made since the standard was established nearly 20 
years ago.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

On 9/18/2015 5:54 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 18 September 2015 at 22:38, Ron Ginger  wrote:
>> I am not trying to push Mach on this list, I simply want the facts to be
>> clear and to try to kill off rumors.
> Thanks for that.
>
> I don't actually understand why anyone thinks that LinuxCNC is in
> competition with Mach3. There is actually no advantage to LinuxCNC in
> having more market share, we don't make any more money, but we have a
> bigger (free) support burden.
>
> If people feel the need to justify their own choice by attacking Mach3
> / 4 then that's up to them, but as long as people make the parts they
> want to make, then I don't care what they use.
>
> I do care when they take a servo/resolver Hardinge lathe and throw
> away all the top-spec original parts to run Mach, when it could work
> unmodified with LinuxCNC, but that's a very different reasoning.

Well.

Linux is not in competition with Mach3/4,  but Mach3/4 is definitely in 
competition with LinuxCNC.

I'm sure it was not a happy day for the Artsoft Team when Tormach went 
to a LinuxCNC/Machinekit solution.

Most of us were only aware of the change after it happened,  but  as it 
turned out, we got a new planner out of it!   :-)(Plus likely 
several other fixes)

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Ron Ginger]

Mach4 does not in any way 'phone home'. Although the code is different 
it works exactly as mach3- you get a license file mailed to you and you 
install it once and it lasts forever.

There was a recent change made to the license code which required a new 
license, so guys using the first version of Mach4 had to use the web 
site to get a new license. The hobby version allows you to self-issue up 
to 5 licenses in a year. Each license is tied to a PC by some code that 
looks at many things, including a MAC address of an ethernet card.

The license is a small pain, but once loaded you are done with it. If 
the world was more honest a license would not be necessary.

In the commercial world users are not scared off by licenses, they are 
running a business and understand it costs to get the kind of commercial 
grade product they want. Mach4 is already in wide use by many OEMs. The 
hobby side is not the focus.

I am not trying to push Mach on this list, I simply want the facts to be 
clear and to try to kill off rumors.

ron ginger


On 9/18/2015 3:39 PM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 14:22:27 -0400
> From: Dave Cole<linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> To:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Message-ID:<55fc5663.2000...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> >What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the dominant CNC
>> >program out there for people who don't want a call home virus running on
>> >their PC.
> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem
> for me.
> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand
> them trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares
> away a number of potential users.
>
>
> Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 22:38, Ron Ginger  wrote:
> I am not trying to push Mach on this list, I simply want the facts to be
> clear and to try to kill off rumors.

Thanks for that.

I don't actually understand why anyone thinks that LinuxCNC is in
competition with Mach3. There is actually no advantage to LinuxCNC in
having more market share, we don't make any more money, but we have a
bigger (free) support burden.

If people feel the need to justify their own choice by attacking Mach3
/ 4 then that's up to them, but as long as people make the parts they
want to make, then I don't care what they use.

I do care when they take a servo/resolver Hardinge lathe and throw
away all the top-spec original parts to run Mach, when it could work
unmodified with LinuxCNC, but that's a very different reasoning.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[jrmitchellj .]

For circuit boards I use Kicad to generate Gerber files, then FlatCAM to
get from Gerber to gcode.  FlatCAM is python based, so works on most
platforms.  There is a bit of post editing of the gcode files, I do to
improve speed.  The gcode goes to a ShapeOKO2 flat bed router.  The boards
come out beautiful! (double sided as well)
For 3D work, I have Solidworks, with HSMExpress.  HSMExpress is available
for Solidworks, Inventor, and Fusion360, for free, and there is a good post
for LinuxCNC.  That gcode goes to a '70 era Bridgeport that is stepper
driven, with a LinuxCNC controller.

Ray M.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com
(818)324-7573


The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The
occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion.
As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall
ourselves, and then we shall save our country.*Abraham Lincoln
<http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Abraham_Lincoln/>*, *Annual message
to Congress, December 1, 1862*
*16th president of US (1809 - 1865)*

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Belli Button <be...@iafrica.com> wrote:

> I just grabbed this off the M4 website:
>
> "What's new for Version #2:   .  and better security to protect users
> from dealing with pirated copies and the errors and performance issues they
> include."
>
> "Important - Version 2 requires a new license file to operate."
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 18 September 2015 20:22
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
>
> On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the
> > dominant CNC program out there for people who don't want a call home
> > virus running on their PC.
>
> I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem
> for me.
> The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand them
> trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares away
> a
> number of potential users.
>
>
> Dave
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 18/09/15 23:19, jrmitchellj . wrote:
> FlatCAM is python based, so works on most
> platforms.
Interesting ...must look at that!

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jeremy Jones]

Does anyone use SolidCAM or know of a reliable post processor for it? I
found one but haven't had time to try it to see if it works. My buddy has
SolidCAM I can use but HSMExpress has been working fine. Would like
something for 3d toolpaths though.

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Bruce Layne 
wrote:

>
>
> On 09/18/2015 05:22 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > I just noticed that in the Autodesk store you can actually click on a
> Penguin:
> > http://store.autodesk.co.uk/store/adsk/en_GB/DisplayHomePage
>
> Autodesk definitely seems to be making a strong push into the large
> market of small shop users with some of their products and marketing in
> the last few years, probably after SolidWorks ate their lunch.  I was
> encouraged by AutoDesk's recent shift in marketing strategy and went
> onto their forum to encourage them to gain a competitive edge by
> providing solutions to the Linux and LinuxCNC community that is under
> served in the the CAD/CAM marketplace.  However, the AutoDesk
> representative was very dismissive.  Despite my effort to make a strong
> and realistic business case, I was hit with the same old nonsense.
> Linux users refuse to pay for software, so AutoDesk won't spend any time
> developing software for Linux users even though they deliberately
> selected cross platform development tools to make it easier to develop
> products for Windows and Mac, and Linux wouldn't take much additional
> effort.  They seemed to have a religious aversion to Linux.  It reminded
> me of Microsoft comparing Linux to cancer.  I tried to explain that BY
> FAR the most expensive software I've ever purchased was electronic CAD
> software that I bought specifically because it ran as native Linux code,
> but my first person example was simply ignored and AutoDesk continued
> with that old saw about Linux users not paying for software.
>
> Several of us who were advocating for Linux support on the AutoDesk
> forum were summarily dismissed in a manner that felt like ridicule and
> derision.  It's a lost opportunity for AutoDesk.  Despite their recent
> products targeting the large market consisting of small shops, I guess
> they still don't understand their market and they'll continue to lose
> out on some low hanging fruit.  They'd apparently prefer to compete in a
> crowded corner of a very competitive market rather than recompile their
> existing products for the Linux market that would be grateful for a
> serious CAD/CAM product.  This seems nuts to me, considering the
> incremental cost of selling another copy of commercial software is very
> low and adding loyal Linux customers would greatly contribute to paying
> their significant development costs.
>
> I'll continue to write G code by hand, use PyCam, and play with FreeCAD
> while waiting for it to mature.  I like where it's going.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Steve Dawson]

On 09/18/2015 12:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been using Alibre (now Geomagic) and the VisualCAM plugin for
> generating G-Code.  MecSoft will no longer be supporting the plugin and has
> offered a standalone version of VisualCAM.  When 3D Systems purchased Alibre
> I wondered whether it would eventually just become a CAD system for rapid
> prototyping.  I suspect that will happen soon.
> 
> So with MACH3 turning into a networked licensed (must be internet connected)
> CNC system and Geomagic no longer having an integrated CAM interface it
> seems like it's a good time to re-evaluate LinuxCNC and for that matter
> Linux for the entire development process.  That or live with WIN-10 (GACK)
> 
> So what are people using for the 3D parametric drawing to G-Code CAM
> generation to the LinuxCNC control?
> 
> Or is Linux still in the 2D drawing world with a post processor to generate
> G-Code that needs the command line editor VI to clean up?
> John
> 
> 
> 
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> 
I use blender and pycam. Yes, pycam is slow but if you run it under the Pypy 
JIT environment its about 20x faster on version 2.6

Mini howto here, 
http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/31-cad-cam/28313-pycam-and-pypy

Regards,

Steve.





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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Fri, 2015-09-18 at 18:11 +0800, linden wrote:
> I have been using FreeCAD for producing 3d models and 2d prints for a 
> little over 2 years now it is still under heavy development but 
> defiantly usable and improved hugely in the time I have used it. I use a 
> 3rd party add in workbench for dimensioning my prints available on 
> github. Recently the path modal has been  added to the stable release of 
> FreeCAD it has a LinuxCNC post possessor but offers only very basic 
> functionality Profile, Pocket, Drill, Peck Drill, ect. There are still 
> defanatly some bugs feet and inches don’t always display as expected 
> although the dimension is correct and g code arcs the G2 and G3 commands 
> getting transposed ocasonaly. I have used it successfully but you 
> defiantly have to hand edit a little and back plot to test before 
> running any generated G code on a machine. If the current rate of 
> development keeps up in a year or 2 it will be able to compeet with some 
> of the lower priced CAM software. The 3D cad is defiantly at the point 
> it is better than a lot of the lower end proprietary  software. The 
> programming behind it is very well thought out with all the heavy 
> lifting done with a core written in C and python used for all the GUI 
> and workbenches set up as plug ins. If you know a little python you can 
> customize or create just about any thing you could dream of. Still not 
> ready for prime time but defiantly on the right track and better than 
> PyCAM and more versitile than the G code tools plugin for inkscape. 
> There is also blendercam if you are doing arty stuff it is bast on 
> meshes so you do not get true arcs but faceted faces. Some of the bass 
> relief stuff done with it is pretty incredible.

I use both FreeCAD and PyCAM, it was a pity to see PyCAM unmaintained,
but I still use it occasionally (when it went unmaintained it was an
incentive to learn gcode!), however the FreeCAD Path Module is well
promising and I expect it to improve over time.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 05:49, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> So what are people using for the 3D parametric drawing to G-Code CAM
> generation to the LinuxCNC control?

Realistically speaking I don't think that there is a toolchain for
Linux that is comparable to what you can find on Windows.

I use AutoDesk Inventor and HSM Express and it's very good. But it
should be at the price. (I get a free license as a perk of my
day-job). I actually run this on my Mac in a VM and his probably
remains the most practical way to get decent CAD/CAM running on a
Linux box.

If you have really deep pockets then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_NX runs on Linux.

I haven't used FreeCAD for a while, but I think that is the closest to
complete of the Free Open Source options. I think that there are
Linux-compatible commercial options, but haven't tried them.

There are slightly more CAM options than CAD options. MeshCAM ($250)
is Windows/Mac but runs under Wine. CamBam isn't quite as slick as
MeshCAM, but then it's cheaper (£93) and there is a Linux-specific
version: http://www.cambam.info/ref/ref.linux

PyCAM (FOSS) would be OK if it wasn't so terrifyingly slow. As in, a
path that takes HSM Express 4 seconds will be an overnight run for
PyCAM. But see the other email that suggests a fix for this.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Jason Burton]

I haven't needed to run offline, though I hear it will.  It's been a treat
so far, though I've just started making parts for my startup.  Also, comes
with a linuxcnc postprocessor (it is called EMC in the post list).

Best,
Jason


On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 12:27 AM, John Dammeyer <jo...@autoartisans.com>
wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jason Burton [mailto:lathebuil...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-17-15 10:08 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC
> >
> >
> > Fusion 360 CAM is very nice.
> >
>
> I went to the web site and tried to download from Debian.
> "Your operating system is not supported. Fusion 360 is supported on 64-bit
> Windows 7 or newer and 64-bit Mac OS X 10.9 or newer."
>
> >From the web site:
> "Fusion 360T is the first 3D CAD/CAM tool of its kind, connecting your
> entire product development process in a single cloud-based tool."
>
> Cloud based implies permanently connected to the internet right?  That's a
> non-starter for the same reason MACH4 is a non-starter.
>
> I realize I may sound rather odd when I say this but think about it.  Walk
> up to your 1942 South Bend lathe and you can turn out metal parts.
>
> Surf just about any forum on the internet more than 1 year old and click on
> links that end up with a 404 not found error.  Support cloud computing and
> buy into the deal that next year it will cost you again or it won't be
> available at all.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

What's the overall opinion of Cambam?

I tried it a while back and put it aside.   I don't remember why, but I 
was not impressed.

Is it a usable tool or not?I'm looking for a low cost lathe package.

Les should do a lathe version of Sheetcam.

Dave



On 9/18/2015 10:29 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 18 September 2015 at 14:52, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:39 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>>> SheetCAM does lathes,
>> I sent Les a message a few months ago asking if he was still planning to do 
>> a lathe cam package in the same vein as Sheetcam.
>
> Sorry, I got my packages confused.
>
> I _intended_ to say that CamBam does lathes. Not SheetCAM.
>
> If Les did a LatheCAM I imagine it would work well, and simply. Like SheetCAM.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

I thought that Mach4 only needed to be connected to the internet when it 
was installed to handshake with the license server?

Has Mach3 gone in the same direction ??I thought they stopped 
development on Mach3.

Dave


On 9/18/2015 12:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Hi,
> I've been using Alibre (now Geomagic) and the VisualCAM plugin for
> generating G-Code.  MecSoft will no longer be supporting the plugin and has
> offered a standalone version of VisualCAM.  When 3D Systems purchased Alibre
> I wondered whether it would eventually just become a CAD system for rapid
> prototyping.  I suspect that will happen soon.
>
> So with MACH3 turning into a networked licensed (must be internet connected)
> CNC system and Geomagic no longer having an integrated CAM interface it
> seems like it's a good time to re-evaluate LinuxCNC and for that matter
> Linux for the entire development process.  That or live with WIN-10 (GACK)
>
> So what are people using for the 3D parametric drawing to G-Code CAM
> generation to the LinuxCNC control?
>
> Or is Linux still in the 2D drawing world with a post processor to generate
> G-Code that needs the command line editor VI to clean up?
> John
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Willy Snow]

I second Onshape for CAD. The price is right. I actually love the fact that
it is online. No PDM, No Server, No CAD Station, No Video Card, No Crashes
(they just swap servers). Sharing is a breeze. I am sure they can do
security better than me. I know they have some big name CAM partners, but
not sure where they are at yet? There has been a lot of talk. Hopefully the
pricing follows suite.

I mainly use Solidworks and HSMWorks now. While they work well as long as
you don't go above SW14, I see the life of the products as limited. They
used to be the best, but there has been very little development compared to
other packages.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 14:52, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:39 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>> SheetCAM does lathes,

> I sent Les a message a few months ago asking if he was still planning to do a 
> lathe cam package in the same vein as Sheetcam.


Sorry, I got my packages confused.

I _intended_ to say that CamBam does lathes. Not SheetCAM.

If Les did a LatheCAM I imagine it would work well, and simply. Like SheetCAM.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 15:53, Dave Cole  wrote:
> What's the overall opinion of Cambam?
...
> Is it a usable tool or not?I'm looking for a low cost lathe package.

I would say it is usable, though it has it's quirks and it is a fairly
hands-on sort of CAM. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It is much harder than it should be to align the outlines to the
origin. (SheetCAM has this problem too).

You need to set up the post, the planes and the tool library correctly
to get any output in lathe mode.
You get something like 40 "goes" for free before having to pay.

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 18 September 2015 at 14:30, Tom Easterday  wrote:
> I would like to find a good affordable lathe cam package and it might fill 
> the bill for that.

SheetCAM does lathes, and it's not bad once you figure out all the
switches needed to make it create a path and not include Y moves.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Tom Easterday]

I too currently use (the stupidly named, IMO) Geomagic and it works well for me 
at the moment but time will tell where they go with it.  They did have a recent 
update that seemed to indicate they would be supporting and adding feature in 
the future but we'll see.   

Andy is correct that there just aren't really good options that run natively on 
Linux.  I have been meaning to look at Heeks CAD and Heeks CNC, they look 
interesting but I have some fear of losing a bunch of features/functionality 
that I have in Geomagic.  Also the UI in Linux isn't as polished as MacOS and 
Win or requires jumping through hoops to have a basic functionality that should 
have been in the UI from the start.  I too am a big fan of virtual machines on 
a Mac platform.  I only run Windows (7 currently) as an application on my Mac 
(aka unix) as God intended ;-). I also have some Linux VMs as well.  I don't 
see that changing for the foreseeable future but it depends on how "cowboy" you 
want to be.  I know a few people who use Linux exclusively but they miss tons 
of functionality and are constantly administering the machine.

I beta tested Fusion 360 and it was quite nice and had some integrated CAM for 
milling.  I am not a fan of the online only model of software though.  The 
roadmap when I was testing was to have lathe CAM in Fusion in 2016 and I may 
take another look then as I would like to find a good affordable lathe cam 
package and it might fill the bill for that.

I have been using OnShape along with a friend who was looking for CAD and I 
must say it is really impressive.  It still suffers from the online-only issue 
but it's interface is quite usable on iPads and even phones (which I never 
would have believed).  It is evolving and they are constantly adding features 
but is incredibly capable already.   The collaboration model is absolutely 
great, shared documents of course, but also simultaneous editing of models.  
You should check it out even if you don't like online only...

My current CAM is almost exclusively Sheetcam for 2.5d milling.  I also 
occasionally use Meshcam if I need a 3D tool path.  There don't seem to be a 
lot of options for CAD/CAM in the hobbiest price range unfortunately (even less 
so for specifically CAM).

-Tom


> On Sep 18, 2015, at 12:49 AM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> So what are people using for the 3D parametric drawing to G-Code CAM
> generation to the LinuxCNC control?
> 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Davor Bokun]

Is anyone using BlenderCAM (
http://blendercam.blogspot.hr/p/blender-cam-description.html) for anything
real? Any opinions? I only tried simple cut-outs, but it worked fine..

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:

> On Fri, 2015-09-18 at 18:11 +0800, linden wrote:
> > I have been using FreeCAD for producing 3d models and 2d prints for a
> > little over 2 years now it is still under heavy development but
> > defiantly usable and improved hugely in the time I have used it. I use a
> > 3rd party add in workbench for dimensioning my prints available on
> > github. Recently the path modal has been  added to the stable release of
> > FreeCAD it has a LinuxCNC post possessor but offers only very basic
> > functionality Profile, Pocket, Drill, Peck Drill, ect. There are still
> > defanatly some bugs feet and inches don’t always display as expected
> > although the dimension is correct and g code arcs the G2 and G3 commands
> > getting transposed ocasonaly. I have used it successfully but you
> > defiantly have to hand edit a little and back plot to test before
> > running any generated G code on a machine. If the current rate of
> > development keeps up in a year or 2 it will be able to compeet with some
> > of the lower priced CAM software. The 3D cad is defiantly at the point
> > it is better than a lot of the lower end proprietary  software. The
> > programming behind it is very well thought out with all the heavy
> > lifting done with a core written in C and python used for all the GUI
> > and workbenches set up as plug ins. If you know a little python you can
> > customize or create just about any thing you could dream of. Still not
> > ready for prime time but defiantly on the right track and better than
> > PyCAM and more versitile than the G code tools plugin for inkscape.
> > There is also blendercam if you are doing arty stuff it is bast on
> > meshes so you do not get true arcs but faceted faces. Some of the bass
> > relief stuff done with it is pretty incredible.
>
> I use both FreeCAD and PyCAM, it was a pity to see PyCAM unmaintained,
> but I still use it occasionally (when it went unmaintained it was an
> incentive to learn gcode!), however the FreeCAD Path Module is well
> promising and I expect it to improve over time.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Tom Easterday]

I sent Les a message a few months ago asking if he was still planning to do a 
lathe cam package in the same vein as Sheetcam.  He said it was still in the 
plan but he hadn't done anything with it yet.  I assume you are talking about 
hacking the existing Sheetcam to generate a lathe tool path? Yes I have seen 
people do that, I suspect it isn't all that difficult to do.  That would be 
useful though I would really like a package that can generate paths from a 3D 
model...

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 9:39 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
>> On 18 September 2015 at 14:30, Tom Easterday  wrote:
>> I would like to find a good affordable lathe cam package and it might fill 
>> the bill for that.
> 
> SheetCAM does lathes, and it's not bad once you figure out all the
> switches needed to make it create a path and not include Y moves.
> 
> 
> -- 
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Fri, 2015-09-18 at 15:02 +0200, Davor Bokun wrote:
> Is anyone using BlenderCAM (
> http://blendercam.blogspot.hr/p/blender-cam-description.html) for anything
> real? Any opinions? I only tried simple cut-outs, but it worked fine..

I didn't know about BlenderCAM, after a glance at the site..hmm there is
a red warning: ...  I wouldn't recommend Blender CAM for metalworking
now, be carefull if you try it.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

[Belli Button]

I just grabbed this off the M4 website:

"What's new for Version #2:   .  and better security to protect users
from dealing with pirated copies and the errors and performance issues they
include."

"Important - Version 2 requires a new license file to operate."





-Original Message-
From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 September 2015 20:22
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD/CAM for LinuxCNC

On 9/18/2015 1:02 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> What will really happen ultimately is LinuxCNC will become the 
> dominant CNC program out there for people who don't want a call home 
> virus running on their PC.

I didn't know that it actually "phoned home".   That would be a problem 
for me.
The licensing model is rather convoluted.  Although I can understand them
trying to protect their software sales, I suspect that it also scares away a
number of potential users.


Dave

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