Re: [EVDL] co-operation
Well, if you had Elon Musk on your side maybe he, with his resources, could get this changed, as well as other laws around EV's -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Friday, 26 September 2014 3:21 p.m. To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] co-operation I too have tried to get HOV stickers, but the agency providing the sticker have made a very narrow interpretation of the California laws, where it indicates that all qualified vehicles should get a sticker (clearly meaning: all zero emissions vehicles) the agency has changed their interpretation and enforcement to only give stickers to vehicles where the *manufacturer* of the vehicle has certified that the vehicle qualifies (meets a set of rules that they have defined). I am doubting whether this was an attempt to kill interest in EVs in general by making it unattractive (difficult) to qualify for HOV stickers, but it certainly causes all pre-existing and self-converted vehicles to become disqualified from HOV stickers, which sounds arbitrary. Anyway, the interpretation of the agency causes this and it seems that it is an incorrect interpretation of the law. Either a lot of pressure on this agency or a lawsuit might be needed to change this interpretation - or enough politicians that hear from their (EV driving) constituency and make it explicit to the agency that they must issue stickers to *all* EVs. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Stephen via EV Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 3:06 PM To: HARSHA GODAVARI; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] co-operation How about getting a conversion to be recognized with the same incentives that are provided with most new EV sales? I converted my own car, at my own full cost, with no tax breaks or other incentives, and now can not even get a HOV sticker in California, even though the CA DMV and state BAR have both verified it as a pure electric vehicle and is fully exempt from any future smog certification. In the end, I did it for the savings in fuel costs, the silence, and it leaves me open to do whatever performance increases I want without any limitation (e.g. smog certification. It would be nice though to get to use that car pool lane ;-). from what I see, most EV buyers in CA are simply buying their way to a more convenient commute. Regards, Stephen On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM, HARSHA GODAVARI via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: - Original Message - From: George Tyler via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: 'brucedp5' bruce...@operamail.com, 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:43:05 -0600 (MDT) Subject: [EVDL] co-operation In this forum we have all the skills necessary to set up a franchise that is in it's self not for profit but works to further the development of a market for converted cars which could be a fraction of the cost of the current manufacturer's cars. This would really get things going. Could you elaborate a little on this. I am a little confused (senior moment..my natural state) as to what you are saying. Thanks. regards hg ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140925/8b7e a142/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EVLN: Tree-Bites-Leaf EV stuff-happens (video)
'Decayed tree's deciduous decision to divide with disdain' % an ice was also hit % http://thenewswheel.com/tree-crushes-leaf/ Tree Crushes LEAF Because Nature Loves Irony September 22, 2014 [images http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SCP-Tree.png Tree Crushes LEAF SCP-2159 – The Car-Hating Tree http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Result.png http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Oh-Well-Hai-Tree.png Wuh? http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/HAHAHA.png HAHAHA (tweet1) http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Best-Comment.png Best Comment (tweet2) http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/No-Nobody.png No Nobody (tweet3) video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YaS0w4EXTY Tree crushes Nissan Leaf Daniel Wu Sep 17, 2014 Jukin Media Verified (Original) For licensing / permission to use: Contact - licensing(at)jukinmediadotcom ] If you ask someone who is still prone to dropping euphemisms first popularized fifty-or-so years ago that are meant to demean people concerned with the environment, they might just up and call the Nissan LEAF a car for tree huggers. If they saw the video below of a tree crushing a LEAF, they might feel inclined to change their tune. If a tree falls onto a silent car on the freeway, does it make a sound? The answer: yes, it does. A very loud one. The video is captured by the dashcam of one Daniel Wu, who was driving on Route 163 in San Diego when a massive oak tree tipped over and slammed into the windshield and hood the car. Nobody was hurt in the incident, and Wu’s muted look of terror can be seen immediately after impact. As it stands, the video has almost 200,000 views on YouTube. Of those viewers, the video has been liked 87 times and disliked once. It’s a fair bet that that one thumbs down can be traced back to a laptop sitting improbably at the foot of a tree. Naturally, since it’s on YouTube, at least one of the comments had to be something stupid: (tweet1) You heard sirhcskoorb, America. Forget about the LEAF if you want people to acknowledge your masculinity and make sure you buy the 2015 Hyugedong MusclePenis 350. As if we needed any more reason to suspect that sirhcskoorb isn’t on the up and up, yes, their picture is a tree stump sticking out of a toilet. Clearly, he’s on the tree’s side. Fortunately, sirhcskoorb’s dumb comment was nullified by this far less dumb comment: (tweet2) We all are. We all are. Also: (tweet3) What is this…ironing? Irony?…of which you speak? [© thenewswheel.com] http://www.10news.com/news/sig-alert-issued-for-nb-sr-163-near-i-8-09162014 Sig Alert issued for NB SR-163 near I-8 Sep 16, 2014 [images http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/09/16/Tree_down_163_Krista_Burroughs_1410930240777_8120494_ver1.0.jpeg Firefighters working to clean up the scene after a tree fell down on the northbound lanes of state Route 163 just south of Interstate 8 on Sept. 16, 2014 / KRISTA BURROUGHS http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/09/16/stephanie_batt3_163_traffic_1410920236892_8117285_ver1.0.jpg Traffic on SR-163 after downed trees (Sept. 16, 2014) ©Scripps Media http://media.10news.com/photo/2014/09/16/tree_163_jensen_1410920752836_8117289_ver1.0.jpg ©Scripps Media ] SAN DIEGO - Northbound state Route 163 just south of Interstate 8 was briefly blocked due to a downed tree. The incident was reported at about 5:45 p.m. Tuesday, according to the California Highway Patrol's incident page after a tree reportedly fell on a vehicle. The CHP's incident page says the lanes were blocked by a eucalyptus tree. A Sig Alert has been issued. As of about 7 p.m., two lanes of northbound SR-163 were open. [© 2014 Scripps Media] http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/9/20/This-Nissan-Leaf-Just-Got-Crushed-by-a-Tree-7722692/comments/ This Nissan Leaf Just Got Crushed by a Tree [2014/9/20] [images http://cdn.carbuzz.com/images2/42/9000/900/429914.jpg (an ice was damaged as well) http://cdn.carbuzz.com/images2/42/9000/900/429922.jpg http://cdn.carbuzz.com/images2/42/9000/900/429919.jpg http://cdn.carbuzz.com/images2/42/9000/900/429920.jpg ] ... http://insideevs.com/tree-crushes-nissan-leaf-video/ Tree Crushes Nissan LEAF – Video [Sep 16, 2014] by Electric CarsTV ... http://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/comments/2gs66e/usa_tree_crushes_nissan_leaf/ 'Muncipality will have to foot the bill. Their rotted-out tree, their responsibility.' ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Odile_%282014%29#United_States Hurricane Odile (2014) ... Gusty high winds, uprooted trees, felled branches, from several uncharacteristically powerful San Diego thunderstorms ... http://www.10news.com/news/cleanup-underway-after-massive-summer-storm School Bus Almost Hit By Tree (video) ... http://blogs.woodtv.com/2014/09/17/severe-storms-in-san-diego/ Severe Storms in San Diego September 17th, 2014 ... http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=sgxproduct=LSRissuedby=sgx TREES TOPPLED ...
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/bf8ecf5f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
On 09/25/2014 07:47 PM, George Tyler via EV wrote: Well, I am also a bit senior! Elon Musk wants to see an electric car industry develop. Current new EV's are the only way in which most people can get them, but they are too expensive for most people. The conversions could cost less, there are companies doing conversions but not main stream. Tesla (Elon) wants to see basically only electrics on the road, he could help many here to get into the main stream market and further his aims by achieving a critical mass. I like your sentiment but I don't think the argument works. A conversion is going to cost at least $15,000 plus the price of the car being converted. There is a lot of extra labor involved in getting the car de-gassified. And if you're doing the conversion for Joe Everybody, it can't be--as many of our conversions are--a rolling science experiment. That involves a lot of extra work and expense in figuring out things like transmissions and interfacing to the car's computers. And you end up with a vehicle that is probably only repairable by the conversion shop that did it, that's hard to get financing for, and that likely has a very low resale value. In order to make it work on a massive scale you have to pick one or two models of cars so that you can streamline the process and make standardized components like battery racks. Choose the wrong car and you're dead because no one will buy it. Frankly I think that's part of what killed Solectria...who really wants a Geo Metro? An electric car industry is developing and it's going to be new cars. And the price is coming down. I am leasing a Smart ED for for which I paid $238 down and $124 per month. I've seen Leafs for $199/mo and a dealer in California is offering (a very limited number of) BMW i3's for $329 per month. There are options if you want an electric car. And we don't want to hit critical mass yetthe supply chain isn't mature enough to provide all those cars. But I think we're making progress and I believe EVs are not going away this time. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Electricity, Lighting and $2 gas
Slightly off topic. Driving my energy efficient EV home everynight , I have to cross the new Annapolis Bridge with its blinding wasteful lights. See a picture: http://aprs.org/USNAlamps.html But here is the real shocker I just stumbled into when looking at the Satellite view of wasted light in the USA. Notice the large lighting blot the size of Las Angeles in upper NW N. Dakota! That must be all the drilling going on (driving the cost of gas below $3) in a race to see how much carbon we can burn before it runs out! Sorry for this off-topic diversion, but I got to it by looking at the lights! Go to google earth, and look at that area There is NOTHING there. Must be so many millions of oil and fracking wells that have sprung up since the google earth images were taken. This is shocking. Bob -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/a59698d5/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4Charging
I have 132 60AH batteries in 2P66S. So I am going to call this 66 batteries at 120AH. Specs call for 3.6 volts max, so 66 in serial is 237.7 volts. I don't want to push them so I set the max voltage at 231volts charge which brings me to approx 3.5 volts per battery. Now in real life once it is at this 231 volts for the string each individual battery voltage is approx 3.34 volts +/- 0.10 volt. Even at the plus side of that each battery would be 3.44 volts or 227.04 volts for the string. So how is it that my charger string voltage is reading 334 - 335 volts while each battery is reading 3.34? Does it matter if the total voltage is over the max (66 X 231) as long as the individual voltage is less 3.5 volts? Should I set my BMS charge voltage cutoff higher and just leave each cell set at the 3.5 volts max. You say that when you charge to 231V each individual pair of cells is actually at 3.34V +/-0.10V, so I assume you did indeed measure the voltage on all the pairs, and measured them with the same voltmeter you measured 231V with so if the voltmeter has some % error, it should be similar in both measurements. If so, there must be a source of resistance causing the voltage difference of about V = 231 - 66*3.34 = 10.56V near end of charge, or, perhaps you are measuring the cells' rest voltages a bit after charging, and not at the end of charge while the charger is still running? But then you say the charger reads 334 - 335V, which is way different than the 231V you say the string is at, so I'm confused. What charger are you using? Does it read 334 - 335V at the same time you measure 231V across the charger leads at the pack? -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/LiFePO4Charging-tp4671761p4671774.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
a little confused (senior moment..my natural state) as to what you are saying. Thanks. regards hg ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140925/8b7e a142/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/bf8ecf5f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/f859fa71/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: It was a rude awakening to me when I realized that all the Greatness of an EV to solve all our problems does not apply to congestion... How about if the EV is Rick Woodbury's Tango (see www.commutercars.com)? This is a car the size of a motorcycle; 1/4th the size of a normal car. It seats two, is fully freeway capable, and has met NHTSC crash standards. You can legally lane split like motorcycles (driving two abreast) in most states. potentially doubling the capacity of highways. Four can park in a normal car's parking place, greatly expanding parking. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do these great deeds, worth repeating. -- Ben Franklin, from Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
On 26 Sep 2014 at 10:15, Rick Beebe via EV wrote: In order to make it work on a massive scale you have to pick one or two models of cars so that you can streamline the process and make standardized components like battery racks. Choose the wrong car and you're dead because no one will buy it. Even if you choose right, you have only a few years at best before the automaker redesigns the car. Then you have the choice of redesigning your conversion, retooling, making new molds and dies and so on; or letting your conversions get older and more used. People who are paying something north of $25k for a car don't want an 8-10 year old car, even if it's electric, so the answer to this one isn't hard to find. You could pick a classic car glider to convert. But there you run into availability problems - clean gliders and parts. You also have to restore the vehicle before you can convert it. It becomes a real challenge to sell the car for a profit at a price that any normal person can or will pay. You could contract with an automaker, almost always in Asia or Eastern Europe, to supply you with new gliders. You end up buying from small, financially strapped automakers whose vehicles aren't state of the art or appealing to buyers. Your supplier is also more likely to go out of business or stop offering cars in your country. (Electricar of Athol Fiats and Renaults, anyone?) Hobbyists have built thousands of conversions, some better than others, of course, but often quite successfully. There's a whole mini-industry that serves EV hobbyists with components, batteries, and even a few kits (where model-specific, mostly for now rather old cars and trucks). It's a small but still (I think / hope) viable business. However, I can't think of a case where EV conversion has ever really been what you'd call successful on a commercial scale. Solectria probably came closest, and IIRC they only sold 300-some cars and trucks during the 1990s. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
Yes, so take it out of the realm of DIY by having a world wide not for profit company that does it, all you guys shareholders. In this company an individual can make profits on conversions done for others. It's the same in NZ, incentives are only for registered companies. These companies told the government that they would pick up the incentive payments themselves instead of passing it on to the consumers, government agreed, so now the incentive does not make it cheaper. This is for home insulation. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jan Steinman via EV Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 5:12 a.m. To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] co-operation From: Stephen via EV ev@lists.evdl.org How about getting a conversion to be recognized with the same incentives that are provided with most new EV sales? YES! Unfortunately, governments *rarely* provide incentives to DIYers. I think they feel there is too much potential for fraud and abuse -- people can and will claim all sorts of stuff, and the government can only afford to qualify mass-market *designs*, not individual implementations. Also, they have no way of telling if a DIY system is even functional or safe. I went through this regarding domestic hot water in the 70s. They wouldn't provide the tax break to DIYers, only to professionally-installed systems. Now, I see the same thing with PV systems. I don't have an easy answer to satisfying the government's need to get decent quality for its investment. Perhaps DIYers could be certified with a test or something - less rigorous than a contractor's license, but able to weed out those who would do crappy installations that would stop working in short order. At any public relations luncheon, the quality of the food is inversely related to the quality of the information. -- Earl Ubell Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] BMS
I have a Ethilon BMS unit with harness for 48 cells. If anyone could use this I'll deal11 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/2047425c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
Co-operation In San Diego, California there is an EV club or coop that meets at Montgomery Field (small airport?) on Saturdays to work on member's conversion projects. They also have workshops ($75) and have displays at fairs, etc... They help members get their conversions started, and then members usually take their projects home to complete when the major electrical and motor install is done. This works good because all of the oil, grease, and gas could be removed at their shop. You can see lots of conversions, see what safety items are needed, etc.. https://www.facebook.com/kickgasclub/info?ref=page_internal Here is their home page, scroll down to see an old Dodge truck. http://kickgasclub.org/ I live two hours away, but my son is in San Diego and wants to convert a small truck. I think in the Bay Area (San Francisco, CA) there are community work shops that you can subscribe to for the use of tools and space. The old Volkswagen beetle is a pretty good platform to standardize an EV conversion process for. I also really like the Chevrolet S-10 for a modern conversion. Just look what EV-Blue has done as a business entity. Alan ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:15 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: There's a whole mini-industry that serves EV hobbyists with components, batteries, and even a few kits (where model-specific, mostly for now rather old cars and trucks). EVWest has such kits for the aircooled VW platform. Engines are already interchangeable between all vehicles in the line, from the earliest Bugs to the ones made recently in Mexico, and from Bugs to Busses to Ghias to Things...and also, with minimal work, all the rear-engine Porsches as well. Many of those cars -- especially the Ghias and Porsches -- are ideal candidates for electrification: they're lightweight and aerodynamic. Since I've gotten the '64 1/2 Mustang, I've learned an awful lot about that platform, as well. I'm pretty sure that a similar near-universal kit could be made for Ford front-engine RWD cars from at least the 50s through the early 70s, and I suspect similar possibilities exist for others. For example, I could buy a brand-new ludicrous horsepower crate engine from Ford Motor Company Racing (or many others) to drop into the '64 1/2 Mustang, and the 260 in3 engine in the car right now would similarly fit in any car that the new engines would. Making a standardized electric equivalent like what EVWest has put together for VWs would seem to be a no-brainer. ...of course, a really big problem is the batteries. Until we have battery packs that can gracefully fit in the space previously occupied by a gas tank, _all_ conversions are going to be...interesting Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/b0b94d3b/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMS
How much for the BMS and where is it at? -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMS-tp4671780p4671783.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] BMS
quote author='Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list' I have a Ethilon BMS unit with harness for 48 cells. If anyone could use this I'll deal11 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/2047425c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) /quote Quoted from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMS-tp4671780.html How much for the BMS and where is it at? _ Sent from http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
It seems that the numbers don't lie. There is now a proven design which will allow you very good range with a small battery pack and good speed. The Stella. My next project after the electric motorcycle will be a road going vehicle with a top of solar panels. The Stella proves ugly is good at least for a family solar car. I'm going to build mine using a Leaf battery pack. It will be heavier than the Stella and have more battery capacity but that is not set in stone.I will make a tear drop tube frame and cover it using light plastic or abs sheet. The vehicle will look like a tadpole with a wide tail. The Stella proves you can have a very blunt front edge and still have efficient CD. I'll use four hub motors. Seating for four or 6 will be slightly recumbent. Small space in rear for storage. It will be very similar to the Stella in looks but a lot simpler. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It would be nice if it could cruise at 25 or thirty mph and still charge the battery.However I'd be happy if it would charge in a day of bright sunlight and have a 200 mile range. Now to source the parts. That's where the group can help. The Stella used individual solar panels laminated into the roof of the vehicle. What is the best to use to get at least 1.2kw? Bicycle hub motors. What are the most efficient for the money? Using four if they are all 1 watt motors this should do the job for freeway speeds. A Rudman charger of some sort unless the solar panels are enough. Simple disc brakes when not using regen. I'll be making the frame from bicycle chromoly. I'm going to try to get Zzipper to make the windshield.. All comments are welcome. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/42ea0963/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
While it sure sounds like a fun project...by far the easiest way to have a solar-powered car is to leave the panels at home, on the roof of the garage or home. Unless I'm sorely mistraken, a significant fraction of the EVs owned by people reading these words are already solar-powered. Not to discourage you from what, again, sounds like a fun project! I'd just suggest that you might want to present it not so much as a solar-powered car but as a super-efficient EV that, oh-by-the-way, carries its solar panels with it as opposed to the large-and-growing population of garden-variety solar-powered cars that leave their solar panels at home. Cheers, b On Sep 26, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It seems that the numbers don't lie. There is now a proven design which will allow you very good range with a small battery pack and good speed. The Stella. My next project after the electric motorcycle will be a road going vehicle with a top of solar panels. The Stella proves ugly is good at least for a family solar car. I'm going to build mine using a Leaf battery pack. It will be heavier than the Stella and have more battery capacity but that is not set in stone.I will make a tear drop tube frame and cover it using light plastic or abs sheet. The vehicle will look like a tadpole with a wide tail. The Stella proves you can have a very blunt front edge and still have efficient CD. I'll use four hub motors. Seating for four or 6 will be slightly recumbent. Small space in rear for storage. It will be very similar to the Stella in looks but a lot simpler. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It would be nice if it could cruise at 25 or thirty mph and still charge the battery.However I'd be happy if it would charge in a day of bright sunlight and have a 200 mile range. Now to source the parts. That's where the group can help. The Stella used individual solar panels laminated into the roof of the vehicle. What is the best to use to get at least 1.2kw? Bicycle hub motors. What are the most efficient for the money? Using four if they are all 1 watt motors this should do the job for freeway speeds. A Rudman charger of some sort unless the solar panels are enough. Simple disc brakes when not using regen. I'll be making the frame from bicycle chromoly. I'm going to try to get Zzipper to make the windshield.. All comments are welcome. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/42ea0963/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/426790e9/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
I have 200W of solar panels on the roof of my Prius. Did it in 2007. THen realized, why in the world waste time with 15 SqFt of solar panels on the roof of my car when I have 1500 sqft on the roof of my house! And, in 2013, the cost of 250W home-roof top panels only cost $200 compared to the $2400 cost of the ones on my car roof (that can bend to fit the roof). The cost of HOME solar panels is down to $0.70 a Watt. The cost of the small scale car roof panels REMAIN at $10/watt. So to me, the TEN times cost of putting solar on the 15 sqft of car roof compared to the 100 TIMES larger area on my house tells me it is ONE THOUSAND times more cost effective to put solar panels on my House roof compared to on the roof of the car. Sure, I can brag that I pickup 1 km of FREE car range for each hour parked in the summer sun, but I can also get that for FREE when I plug into my home solar for just 5 minutes. Been there, don't that. The T-shirt wasn't worth it. See the car: http://aprs.org/my-EVs.html Bob, WB4APR On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: It seems that the numbers don't lie. There is now a proven design which will allow you very good range with a small battery pack and good speed. The Stella. My next project after the electric motorcycle will be a road going vehicle with a top of solar panels. The Stella proves ugly is good at least for a family solar car. I'm going to build mine using a Leaf battery pack. It will be heavier than the Stella and have more battery capacity but that is not set in stone.I will make a tear drop tube frame and cover it using light plastic or abs sheet. The vehicle will look like a tadpole with a wide tail. The Stella proves you can have a very blunt front edge and still have efficient CD. I'll use four hub motors. Seating for four or 6 will be slightly recumbent. Small space in rear for storage. It will be very similar to the Stella in looks but a lot simpler. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It would be nice if it could cruise at 25 or thirty mph and still charge the battery.However I'd be happy if it would charge in a day of bright sunlight and have a 200 mile range. Now to source the parts. That's where the group can help. The Stella used individual solar panels laminated into the roof of the vehicle. What is the best to use to get at least 1.2kw? Bicycle hub motors. What are the most efficient for the money? Using four if they are all 1 watt motors this should do the job for freeway speeds. A Rudman charger of some sort unless the solar panels are enough. Simple disc brakes when not using regen. I'll be making the frame from bicycle chromoly. I'm going to try to get Zzipper to make the windshield.. All comments are welcome. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/42ea0963/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/20e7f6e2/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMS
It's in San Diego and I was asking half retail. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:32 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: quote author='Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list' I have a Ethilon BMS unit with harness for 48 cells. If anyone could use this I'll deal11 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/2047425c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) /quote Quoted from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMS-tp4671780.html How much for the BMS and where is it at? _ Sent from http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/d16e1f7d/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] BMS
via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: quote author='Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list' I have a Ethilon BMS unit with harness for 48 cells. If anyone could use this I'll deal11 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/2047425c/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) /quote Quoted from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/BMS-tp4671780.html How much for the BMS and where is it at? It;s in San Diego and I'm asking half of retail. _ Sent from http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
Being a product development engineer, this strikes me as a HUGE project. Even if you're not looking for professional results. I sense that you understand this is not something you'll be able to toss off in a weekend, but the key issue as I see it is this - how much time and effort will you need to invest to ensure that your large investment results in something worth the investment? What will be the operating envelope for this vehicle? If it's going to be out in traffic - a cage among the cars and not just a lone cyclist near the shoulder, it needs some crash protection. Bicycle tube won't cut it. It is possible to make a real car extremely light and still safe, but your options are limited. Go to an SCCA road race at a local track, wander around the pits and look at the smaller sports racing cars. Also locost construction techniques(Google it). Then realize that including operating doors complicates things dramatically in terms of chassis strength. Another reason to move away from bicycle-think and more toward a very light but real car, is that you're going to have a hard time finding or adapting components for a car built with bike tech. Not only that, but a bike-ish car amounts to coloring far enough outside the lines that most rules of thumb you'll be tempted to rely on will be useless. You're on your own. Do you want to design and build your steering system and all suspension parts from scratch? Car stuff will be far too heavy for a bike-ish car. If Zzipper makes your windshield (presumably from plastic), how will you implement wipers that don't turn it into a scratched up haze? Without wipers you'll never get a plate for it. Speaking of which, how will you implement a hyper-lightweight parking brake that passes inspection? These are only a few questions of dozens you'll have to work out to make this successful. I'd suggest making this a mental/sketching/calculating/spreadsheet project for quite a while before you buy any parts, cut metal or shape plastic. Pay attention to the interplay of different aspects and the compromises. You'll be surprised how much it changes and improves. Trust me, it's a lot easier, quicker and cheaper changing things in the design stage than going through multiple prototypes. And you'll get a better final result. Whatever direction you go, best of luck! Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/9d249513/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
Indeed - numbers don't lie. A decent family car has no more roof surface than max 15 x 6ft or about 90 sqft. At current (low cost) solar panel efficiency, the max you could get out of that is around 12W per sqft (at perfect angle of irradiation, so in practice, a lot less!) which means you might get around 1kW from this roof, or about 5 kWh per day since the sun moves along the sky so you can count on approx 5 full sun hours each day. That means that if you drive less than 20 miles avg per day, you can drive on the solar roof alone if you keep it in full sun all day. No parking under trees or in covered parking garage or behind a building. If you want to do a 200 miles trip (besides battery capacity concerns) you need to park and charge your car for 10 days straight to accumulate the approx 50 kWh that is needed to go that distance. Question is if your pack will contain that. More likely your pack will be half that size, you you can charge 5 days straight and go 100 miles at freeway speed, maybe this is sufficient to do 200 miles at 25 MPH but who wants to sit for 8 hours doing residential street speed? BTW, which car has a flat 90 sqft straight roof surface and is aerodynamic? Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 3:52 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone. It seems that the numbers don't lie. There is now a proven design which will allow you very good range with a small battery pack and good speed. The Stella. My next project after the electric motorcycle will be a road going vehicle with a top of solar panels. The Stella proves ugly is good at least for a family solar car. I'm going to build mine using a Leaf battery pack. It will be heavier than the Stella and have more battery capacity but that is not set in stone.I will make a tear drop tube frame and cover it using light plastic or abs sheet. The vehicle will look like a tadpole with a wide tail. The Stella proves you can have a very blunt front edge and still have efficient CD. I'll use four hub motors. Seating for four or 6 will be slightly recumbent. Small space in rear for storage. It will be very similar to the Stella in looks but a lot simpler. I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It would be nice if it could cruise at 25 or thirty mph and still charge the battery.However I'd be happy if it would charge in a day of bright sunlight and have a 200 mile range. Now to source the parts. That's where the group can help. The Stella used individual solar panels laminated into the roof of the vehicle. What is the best to use to get at least 1.2kw? Bicycle hub motors. What are the most efficient for the money? Using four if they are all 1 watt motors this should do the job for freeway speeds. A Rudman charger of some sort unless the solar panels are enough. Simple disc brakes when not using regen. I'll be making the frame from bicycle chromoly. I'm going to try to get Zzipper to make the windshield.. All comments are welcome. Lawrence Rhodes -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/42ea 0963/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4Charging
But thenyou say the charger reads 334 - 335V, which is way different than the 231V you say the string is at, so I'm confused. What charger are you using? Does it read 334 - 335V at the same time you measure 231V across the charger leads at the pack? Tomw, Thanks for catching that. I missed typed it should have been 234 to 235 volts. But to answer your question the 234-235 volts is when I tell the BMS to restrict the total voltage higher to see if the cells will ever reach 3.5v. So I guess from reading other comments, the lost is from the resistance in my interconnect. I did not realize that the draw from my connections would have this much drop on charge. To answer the other questions my charger is an eltek Valere with a Orien BMS. The measure voltage on each cell and the total pack is via the BMS after the balance but before the fully charged phase. So at this point I assume that turning off the total pack restrictions to allow for loss and limiting each battery to 3.45 (was 3.5) is my best charging regiment. Thanks, Buddy ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
I want my vehicle to be so efficient that the panels can run the vehicle at 30 to 40 mph under bright sunlight. The Stella has an efficiency of 35 wh per km which makes it possible to run on the panels alone. Lawrence Rhodes Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/eda3d07f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
When I say bicycle I mean chromoly tubing welded space frame. Probably 2 inch. I'll be copying the Stella doors which hinge up. They don't have wipers. They use water shedding technology. Stella has a round windshield. Wipers would b a problem. I'm working on it. LR Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/df27c8d9/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4Charging
That's a big voltage drop. Even when I charge at 70A DC my DVM on the pack terminals agrees to within a tenth of a volt with the voltage readout on the charger taken at it's output. I would suspect a loose connection inside the charger or at the charger leads on the pack. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/LiFePO4Charging-tp4671761p4671795.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
On 27 Sep 2014 at 8:32, George Tyler via EV wrote: Yes, so take it out of the realm of DIY by having a world wide not for profit company that does it, all you guys shareholders .. Minor detail : at least in the US, a non-profit corporation can't have shareholders. Well, in a few states it sort of can, but they aren't the same as regular shares of stock. Nonprofits CAN, however, accept donations, and offer contributors significant tax advantages. Unfortunately many high dollar contributions come with strings attached, however. I thought of something akin to this idea - a nonprofit EV manufacturing concern - back in the 1980s. I figured that since it didn't have to turn a profit for stockholders, it could be a more public-minded, risk-taking operation. Since then I've had a fair bit more experience with nonprofit organizations, and it's made me more cynical. I've realized that many of them end up being at least as cautious and risk-averse as for-profit companies are. Often they start out with ideals and guts and courage, but hunker down at the first sign of economic hardship. They can easily become so focused on surviving as an organization that the original goal kind of recedes into the distance. Nonprofits do get some tax advantages, but otherwise, most of their expenses aren't much different from for-profits'. Look at what the big charities pay their executives, for example. Again, they start off being idealists, but at some point they decide (correctly or not) that they can't attract savvy bosses unless they pay them like private business. (Whether these executives, profit or non, are really worth the salaries they're paid will be left as an exercise for the reader.) So, call me a cynic (you wouldn't be the first), but I'm skeptical that a nonprofit automaker or converter would be any more successful than the for- profits that have failed at the business in the past. Prove me wrong! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
On 26 Sep 2014 at 15:16, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
...of course, a really big problem is the batteries. Until we have battery
packs that can gracefully fit in the space previously occupied by a gas tank,
_all_ conversions are going to be...interesting
That is indeed one major problem. I remember Mike Brown talking about what
he went through with the Voltsrabbit kits. IIRC, he designed the
Voltsrabbit battery boxes to fit an early ('78 or '79) Rabbit perfectly.
The next year, VW changed the front end of the car - I think that was when
they went from round to rectangular headlights - and the front battery box
wouldn't fit any more.
Another problem that's come to the fore in recent years is convincing the
car's body computers that they should let the accessories work without the
car's orginal engine running. ABS brakes sometimes don't work right if the
engine computer isn't answering the brake computer's insistent questions.
Traction control? Good luck.
Figuring out how to give all these computers the fake input they want isn't
trivial, and if the manufacturer changes things from one model year to the
next, you can end up back at square one.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator
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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not
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Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
On 26 Sep 2014 at 18:08, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: BTW, which car has a flat 90 sqft straight roof surface and is aerodynamic? This is what Lawrence is talking about : http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4671714 http://www.greenoptimistic.com/2014/09/24/stella-500-mile-solar-powered- electric-vehicle/ http://tinyurl.com/qh2f6ox http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2385976/Stella-solar-powered- family-car-travels-420-miles-sunny-energy-positive.html http://tinyurl.com/lyq3n6o Estimating from the size of a person's hand near the PV panels in one photo, I'd estimate that the car has somewhat less than 90 sq ft of PV. I'd guess closer to 60, but I could be wrong. In any case, the ENTIRE top of the vehicle is covered, literally nose to tail. This PV array is claimed to produce either 1.2kW or 1.5kW, depending on the source. Presumably that's under ideal conditions - fine if you're driving in San Diego, maybe not so fine here in cloudy Ohio. Supposedly they got the car to run on 50 watts (!). I haven't found that claim elsewhere, but that's what Lawrence says the day time running system including lights uses. I find this impossible to believe. My e-bike cruses at 15mph, typically using between 150 and 250 watts (depending on terrain and how much I pedal). My bike weighs 50lb. Their car weighs around 900lb. You do the math, and tell me how they manage 50 watts. All that aside, the principle here reminds me of the solar racers, highly optimized engineering-challenge vehicles where cost is no object. Most solar racers are developed in academic settings with hundreds of thousands of dollars in (largely donated) components and materials. Tens of thousands of labor hours go into them, made possible in part by teams of students who volunteer their time. The tools and workshops are provided by the university, or are donated. The result is a super-efficient vehicle suited only to one purpose, winning the prize in a solar race. Solar racers by and large are not practical for everyday use. They're notoriously uncomfortable, and frankly most of them would be pulverized in a low speed road accident. The folks who built Stella, from a university in The Netherlands, claim they've made their solar racer more practical and comfortable. Unlike the other racers it does indeed carry more than one person. It does not seem to have doors, however. (No word on the safety issues.) The builders claim the PV cost them only UKP 2600 (about US$4200), but I'm skeptical. (Of course $4200 also buys a fair amount of batteries.) The drive system for an EV like this would have to be highly optimized. Every compromise you make so that it's buildable in your garage instead of a university machine shop is going to cost efficiency. If the typical home EV converter built an EV like this, he might end up with something interesting. Would it manage to be, as these students claim, a car you never have to plug in (100% self-solar powered)? That I'm not so sure about. The other problem I see with this is that you're building a high-precision complex machine from scratch. Look at how many kit cars never get finished, and this would be even more work than those! You'd have to be really, really serious about building it, truly dedicated. If that's you, my hat's off to you. Personally, I wouldn't try building something like this because (1) I don't want to devote all my time to it; and (2) I'd be afraid that I wouldn't have it done in time to drive it before I was too old (or dead). But hey, I'm kinda old already. ;-) I think this would be a great project for someone who's dedicated to the EV cause, and fairly wealthy. Duplicating this prototype could work, if you could afford to hire out most or all of the labor and fabrication (sort of like what Neil Young did with his LincVolt). I can see someone like Ed Begley Jr commissioning something like this, for example. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
On 26 Sep 2014 at 19:44, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: I want my vehicle to be so efficient that the panels can run the vehicle at 30 to 40 mph under bright sunlight. The Stella has an efficiency of 35 wh per km which makes it possible to run on the panels alone. There really isn't enough information here to judge the veracity of this run on the panels alone claim. One thing that's missing is the test conditions for that 35 Wh/km (about 58 Wh/mi). FWIW, though, the first-generation Solectria Force sedan (2100lb weight) could do just under 150 Wh/mi, at a steady 45mph. Also missing is any qualification for the claimed 1.2kW (or, in some publications, 1.5kW) PV output. Is that in full sun? At noon, when the sun is more or less overhead and providing maximum insolation to those (mostly horizontal) PVs? Is that an average from 10am to 2pm in San Diego? What would it be at 5:30pm when you're driving home from work? What if you're driving in Cleveland, Ohio, where there's a lot more cloud cover than in San Diego? There are some big problems with carrying your PV on your back in a car. 1. Your peak output will only be for a short time each day, when the sun is as nearly perpendicular as possible to the plane of the PV panels, and only when you're driving in the right direction, with no cloud cover, no trees, and no buildings shading the panels. The real world of driving a car where you want to go just doesn't mesh well with the way you get maximum power out of a PV system. 2. Weather is a problem. 3. Vandalism is a problem. You're going to park over $4k worth of PV on the streets of San Francisco? Seriously? While building an efficient EV is definitely a great goal and there may indeed be some good ideas for that in this design, I really think you'd be better off putting your PV on your house instead. Your call though. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] co-operation
A recent upstart ZElectricBug is having a go at it, one of the cases you pointed out. Will be interesting to watch. On September 26, 2014 3:15:37 PM CDT, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 26 Sep 2014 at 10:15, Rick Beebe via EV wrote: In order to make it work on a massive scale you have to pick one or two models of cars so that you can streamline the process and make standardized components like battery racks. Choose the wrong car and you're dead because no one will buy it. Even if you choose right, you have only a few years at best before the automaker redesigns the car. Then you have the choice of redesigning your conversion, retooling, making new molds and dies and so on; or letting your conversions get older and more used. People who are paying something north of $25k for a car don't want an 8-10 year old car, even if it's electric, so the answer to this one isn't hard to find. You could pick a classic car glider to convert. But there you run into availability problems - clean gliders and parts. You also have to restore the vehicle before you can convert it. It becomes a real challenge to sell the car for a profit at a price that any normal person can or will pay. You could contract with an automaker, almost always in Asia or Eastern Europe, to supply you with new gliders. You end up buying from small, financially strapped automakers whose vehicles aren't state of the art or appealing to buyers. Your supplier is also more likely to go out of business or stop offering cars in your country. (Electricar of Athol Fiats and Renaults, anyone?) Hobbyists have built thousands of conversions, some better than others, of course, but often quite successfully. There's a whole mini-industry that serves EV hobbyists with components, batteries, and even a few kits (where model-specific, mostly for now rather old cars and trucks). It's a small but still (I think / hope) viable business. However, I can't think of a case where EV conversion has ever really been what you'd call successful on a commercial scale. Solectria probably came closest, and IIRC they only sold 300-some cars and trucks during the 1990s. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/0a87819a/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Building a true road going solar EV. Help everyone.
The Stella uses 35wh per km.weighs388 kg. Has a 16 kw battery. Size is 499x165x115 cm. They fit 1.2 kw of panels laminated into the roof. Stella at 40 mph can still charge the battery. Daytime range is780 km. Night range is 430 km. Still substantial. Engine power 42 kw. You can now see why I am so excited about this vehicle. LAWRENCE RHODES Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140926/71c7b722/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
