[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Ferguson told this story at the Wellesley TM Center back in the mid-70s, except the disciple was not Guru Dev and the disciple did not come to a satsang to convey what he meant. Considering Bob's memory of this story was likely pretty fresh thirty years ago, I'll go with Bob's version. The tale also has its counterpart in Tibetan tradition, with an entirely different set of characters. Good stories tended to be...uh...borrowed and...uh...recast in different spiritual traditions similar to how people remake movies. It's good to see that this trend endures. :-) Personally, I found that the most telling thing in MDG's rant ( parts of which I finally read because so many people were so ga-ga about it :-) was the seemingly one-to-one relationship of defense of bhakti with the strong, almost agressive assertion that something *other* than the ego is in charge of action and the functioning of the universe, and that the ego is *separate* from that other that runs the universe. Seems awfully dualistic to me. The oft-repeated theme is that one cannot trust the self, and that therefore one must put one's trust only in the Self. But the *assumption* underlying this is that self is false, an illusion, *not* a legitimate aspect of Self. In other words, the self is not really the Self...Self is other. I honestly think that if you scratch the surface, you will find that many people who embrace the bhakti path really believe in some concept of God and a form of predestination, in which they (the ego or self) don't really act, only it (the Self, God, whatever) does. It is a belief in God the Other, something *other* than their localized self being the doer, with their individual self cast as inherently flawed and imperfect and, essentially, lower than the lint in a snake's navel. :-) Therefore, having this belief as a *foundation* for their view of the universe, they naturally choose *not* to identify with or put their trust in something they despise (them-selves, the ego), but in something other or not the self that they can idealize and put up on a pedestal (God, the Self, the guru). It's just a theory, but I think it's worth pondering. The bottom line of MDG's rant, if you analyze it, is that the self is BAD, a thief, and that only the Self is good. That's certainly an interesting take on Unity, n'est-ce pas? Seems to me that his position could be synopsized as, I hate my self, therefore I put all my faith and trust in something *other* than my self. And if you don't do the same, there is something wrong with you...I feel 'com- passionately sad' for you. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Typical baloney from Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, purushaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- (non-sequiturs, circular reasoning, tautologies, evidence of raw greed...all comes with the territory of the Neo-Advaitins!!). --- http://www.inner-quest.org/Real_Advaita.htm The first thing which struck me was Ramesh's response to a psychiatric medical doctor of Jewish origin who spoke of the suffering that had pursued him all his life. His father had died in the Nazi camps. The fact that he had never met his father had always been a source of major suffering for him. His sincere account was touching as he expressed it openly in front of everyone. Ramesh's callous response was, This is just a happening, and you have not had any choice. You can only accept! Well, I think its obvious that it happened, and that they didn't have choice. At this point what else could he do than accepting it? I will add that on several occasions Ramesh put a Hitler and hundreds of Mother Teresas on the same level. I wondered why Ramesh approached someone's suffering with such shocking and useless words. (I will remark here that several participants were of Jewish origin.) I don't think its in any way a justification of the holocaust. Hitler didn't need advaita logic to justify his deeds. I think Ramesh's point was from an absolute perspective. To see in it a judgement on the relative level is to make, as Judy put it, a category mistake. There are enough people, who condemn the Holocaust (rightly of course) but they don't help me on my spiritual path. Ramesh did. Then this same doctor asked Ramesh, I have the impression of a feeling of energy in your presence, could you explain why to me? Ramesh's nonsequitur response was, You have spent a thousand Euros for this seminar, but if you come to my house, it is free. Although this should not prevent you from making a donation. The German staff had a lot of fun with this reply. I was at his house just in November/December. It is true, there is absolutely no charge. I was never asked for a donation. I just could freely walk in and out again, without reservation, and he was eager to answer all questions. And that at the age of about 90! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yeah, yeah...we get it. TM good, other techniques bad. :-) But what about my real point? Would you be comfortable with the possibility that many or even *all* of the states of mind that have been *interpreted* as enlight- ment experiences over the centuries may be nothing more (nor less) than a few neurons in the brain deciding to wake up and boogie? I *am* comfortable with that. I've *experienced* some things I *interpreted* as enlightenment. But at the same time, I know that I was programmed for many years *to* interpret such experiences as enlightenment. The experience itself may have been nothing more than a few random neurons in my brain deciding to do their laundry. It doesn't really *matter* that much to me whether such a thing as enlightenment really exists or whether I just interpreted a particular set of experiences that way because I had been taught to. The exper- iences were what they were; I am content just to enjoy them. One of the films I really liked was Phenomenon, starring John Travolta. His character has the exper- ience of seeing a blazing white light descending upon him from the sky, and after that experience he develops paranormal powers. His neighbors believe that he was influenced by aliens; he doesn't know *what* to believe, but it's obvious that the powers actually exist. The ending of the film puts a very different spin on *all* of their musings. But the bottom line was that the experience was *interesting*, and valuable to the experiencer. Bagging it by putting a label on it doesn't make it any more valuable, or less...it's just bagging something. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What users will be using Google for in 20 years...
http://www.slibe.com/image/74093e76-googlein20years_/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
Having now read most of MDG's seemingly endless rap, it strikes me that, for someone who claims to be functioning from the level of Self, there is a great deal of clinging there to the notion of *path*. He claims to have realized the Self, but still talks in terms of the things that keep someone from the goal of realizing the Self, in his case the ego or individual self. These obstacles to the path are consistently portrayed as BAD, thieves, the things that keep us from realization. It makes me wonder if realization ever occurred for him. My first subjective experience of realization was the same as every subsequent experience of it in that the first thing I noticed was that This is nothing new. This has *always* been. There has never been a time when this experience of enlight- enment was not present. I just didn't realize it was present, that's all. The *same* subjective experience has been echoed by many people here. So it does make one wonder how realized MDG's realization really is. Sounds to me like he's still talking theory, not experience. And, judging from his sig at the end of the rant, selling it. Just my two centimes. Drive through... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Fw: Panchakarma Technician Training Course
Note: forwarded message attached. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ---BeginMessage--- Subject: Fw: Panchakarma Technician Training Course Poštovani prijatelji molim vas da se javite ako ste zainteresovani za teaj pana karma tehniara,radi popunjavanja formulara i ostalih instrukcija. Popov Milan NL Jai Guru Dev Subject: Panchakarma Technician Training Course Dear National Leader/National Administrators, Please find attached an announcement of a new upcoming Panchakarma Technician Training Course. Please inform all you TM-Centers in your country. Thank you very much Best wishes Jai Guru Dev ICO AnnouncePKTCrse_NatOfficesMVHCs.rtf Description: MS-Word document ---End Message---
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When someone takes that many words to say something, especially on an Internet forum, you can pretty much rest assured that your life will not be negatively affected by pressing the Next key without reading it. You probably also don't read books or magazine articles. The last three 'scores' were my immediate reaction to a short skim. I just thought that, because of the near-hbakti reverence folks here have for the scientific, I should supplement my subjective analysis with a little objective analysis from Microsoft. :-) I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. Sure, anyone who speaks for bhakti (and disagrees with you) should just keep their mouth shut. Barry says: I don't choose Bhakti, but I can distinguish a moodmaker from a 'real' one.By definition, the ones who disagree with me are 'moodmakers'. Bhakti shouldn't be defended. The POV of Bhakti should be ignored. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't you all get tired of this endless inquiry-sSelf or otherwise? Wasn't the initial instruction meditate and act without intellectualizing life? Wasn't it once Everyday is life, we don't pass up the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...what makes you think you'll enjoy Unity Consciousness if you're not enjoying the process of getting there... MMY (paraphrase) Maybe, to just remind you that this forum is not excluding non TM practitionars. Self-inquiry is just a different path. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: When someone takes that many words to say something, especially on an Internet forum, you can pretty much rest assured that your life will not be negatively affected by pressing the Next key without reading it. You probably also don't read books or magazine articles. Books and magazine articles tend to be written by real authors, not just some guy on an ego rant. I tend to prefer to spend the limited time of my life reading the former and not the latter. Is that not Ok in your world? :-) [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] The last three 'scores' were my immediate reaction to a short skim. I just thought that, because of the near-hbakti reverence folks here have for the scientific, I should supplement my subjective analysis with a little objective analysis from Microsoft. :-) I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. Sure, anyone who speaks for bhakti (and disagrees with you) should just keep their mouth shut. Barry says: I don't choose Bhakti, but I can distinguish a moodmaker from a 'real' one. By definition, the ones who disagree with me are 'moodmakers'. I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] Bhakti shouldn't be defended. The POV of Bhakti should be ignored. That's just your self-importance speaking. NO ONE said that the POV of bhakti should be ignored, or that it shouldn't be presented. It just seems to me that if someone is presenting it, they could do so positively, on the basis of its supposed benefits, and not on the basis of cult paranoia that interprets anyone questioning it as a personal attack. To his credit, MDG *did* present what he felt were the positive benefits of bhakti. You, on the other hand, did not. What you did was attack me. Above I repeated my theorem. I now present its corollary. Those who tend to consistently see any intellectual criticism of their path as a personal attack and overreact to it with a need to defend that path don't really believe in it that strongly. If they did, what *other people* believe wouldn't really affect what they believe, let alone leave them threatened, panicky, and abusive. They're just theories, dude. If you've got different theories, present them. But don't tell me not to present mine. That's not defending your path, it's spiritual fascism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: When someone takes that many words to say something, especially on an Internet forum, you can pretty much rest assured that your life will not be negatively affected by pressing the Next key without reading it. You probably also don't read books or magazine articles. Books and magazine articles tend to be written by real authors, not just some guy on an ego rant. I tend to prefer to spend the limited time of my life reading the former and not the latter. Is that not Ok in your world? :-) [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] The last three 'scores' were my immediate reaction to a short skim. I just thought that, because of the near-hbakti reverence folks here have for the scientific, I should supplement my subjective analysis with a little objective analysis from Microsoft. :-) I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. Sure, anyone who speaks for bhakti (and disagrees with you) should just keep their mouth shut. Barry says: I don't choose Bhakti, but I can distinguish a moodmaker from a 'real' one. By definition, the ones who disagree with me are 'moodmakers'. I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] Bhakti shouldn't be defended. The POV of Bhakti should be ignored. That's just your self-importance speaking. NO ONE said that the POV of bhakti should be ignored, or that it shouldn't be presented. It just seems to me that if someone is presenting it, they could do so positively, on the basis of its supposed benefits, and not on the basis of cult paranoia that interprets anyone questioning it as a personal attack. To his credit, MDG *did* present what he felt were the positive benefits of bhakti. You, on the other hand, did not. What you did was attack me. Above I repeated my theorem. I now present its corollary. Those who tend to consistently see any intellectual criticism of their path as a personal attack and overreact to it with a need to defend that path don't really believe in it that strongly. If they did, what *other people* believe wouldn't really affect what they believe, let alone leave them threatened, panicky, and abusive. They're just theories, dude. If you've got different theories, present them. But don't tell me not to present mine. That's not defending your path, it's spiritual fascism. Hint: what I have termed a true bhakti, someone who believed in it thoroughly and felt strongly about it, might have reacted to my posts about MDG's post by choosing to present some of bhakti's benefits. Or to point out where he felt my logic or my arguments were flawed. Or simply to ignore the other person's opinion and present his own, to provide some balance. All of these things are great, and I don't think anyone here, including myself, would criticize you for doing them. They seem like a reasonable method of presentation for someone who believes strongly in something and wants to present it in a positive light. But you didn't do that. What you did -- again -- was claim that I said that people who don't agree with me should keep their mouths shut. I didn't. In your paranoia and oversensitivity, you imagined that. You said that I claimed I could tell a real bhakti from a mood-making one. I didn't. I presented a theory -- strongly labeled as such -- about which I thought was which. *You* chose to reply in a manner that, from my point of view, provides some substantiation for my theory. You claimed that I said or implied that bhakti should not be defended and that its POV should be ignored. I didn't. Just above I have presented a fairly civilized, socially-acceptable method by which a rational person could defend bhakti and present its POV. You might consider utilizing that method for a change. I think you'd convince more people of the benefits of your path that way. Drive through... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this
[FairfieldLife] Neo? (was: Re: Signs of braahmii sthitiH?)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be wrong to estimate the state of cosmic consciousness in a man by anything he displays in the field of action, because this state accepts every activity, great or small, and at the same time retains complete stillness. His state cannot, in principle, be judged by what he does. There are no outer signs of a man who has risen to this state of Brahman. OTB, p. 174 (Penguin paperback). eSaa braahmii sthitiH paartha nainaaM praapya vimuhyati sthitvaasyaam anta-kaale 'pi brahma-nirvaaNam Rcchati He who has realized the Self, which is innate, unborn, and inconceivable, is not contaminated by any evil, even if he acts in whatever way he likes. And once he is free from ignorance, he cannot perform any action. For that reason the self-controlled mendicant is never bound. Avadhut Gita II. 30 Translation Sw. Chetanananda, Publisher: Advaita Ashram (Ramakrishna Mission) Surely the heart of one who has known the Self is not touched by virtue and vice, just as the sky is not touched by smoke, even though it appears to be. Who can prevent that great souled one, who has known this entire universe to be the Self alone, from acting spontaneously? Ashtavakra Gita IV 3 + 4 Translation: Sw. Nityaswarupananda, Publ. Advaita Ashrama (Ramakrishna Mission) Therefore, do you arise and win glory; conquering foes, enjoy the affluent kingdom. These warriors stand already slain by Me; be you only an instrument, Arjuna. Bhagavad Gita XI. 33 Jayadayal Goyandka Gita; Press It seems Neo-Advaita is quite ancient. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Books and magazine articles tend to be written by real authors, Lines 42 Words 278 Characters 1592 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hint: what I have termed a true bhakti, someone who believed in it thoroughly ... Lines: 82 Words: 547 Characters:3108 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: John Black's raja-hood
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding of John Black and how he got on the raja course comes from a person who was friends with John's sister. I was told that the Black in Black and Decker tools was John's family/dad who die about a year or two ago and left mondo money. Thank you. Devotion + a million overcomes all errors again :-) JohnY FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 3/10/06 11:26 PM, jyouells2000 at jyouells@ wrote: And now he's a raja and Maharishi has changed his name from Black to Bright, so let that be a lesson for all those of lesser faith! Did he need a million for his rajahood? I'm sure he did. Probably some Silicon Valley benefactor sent him. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: When someone takes that many words to say something, especially on an Internet forum, you can pretty much rest assured that your life will not be negatively affected by pressing the Next key without reading it. You probably also don't read books or magazine articles. Books and magazine articles tend to be written by real authors, not just some guy on an ego rant. I tend to prefer to spend the limited time of my life reading the former and not the latter. So you allow those who decide whether a piece of writing is to be published determine your choice of reading material for you? Is that not Ok in your world? :-) [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] The last three 'scores' were my immediate reaction to a short skim. I just thought that, because of the near-hbakti reverence folks here have for the scientific, I should supplement my subjective analysis with a little objective analysis from Microsoft. :-) I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. Sure, anyone who speaks for bhakti (and disagrees with you) should just keep their mouth shut. Barry says: I don't choose Bhakti, but I can distinguish a moodmaker from a 'real' one. By definition, the ones who disagree with me are 'moodmakers'. I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. [Did you notice that you are attacking ME personally, rather than my concepts?] Actually, he's attacking your concepts. He's showing you what your statements of your concepts *imply*. The amusing thing is that this is one of your favorite techniques. But when somebody does it to you, it's a personal attack; when you do it to somebody else, they're being paranoid to interpret it as an attack. Bhakti shouldn't be defended. The POV of Bhakti should be ignored. That's just your self-importance speaking. NO ONE said that the POV of bhakti should be ignored, or that it shouldn't be presented. It just seems to me that if someone is presenting it, they could do so positively, on the basis of its supposed benefits, and not on the basis of cult paranoia that interprets anyone questioning it as a personal attack. To his credit, MDG *did* present what he felt were the positive benefits of bhakti. You, on the other hand, did not. What you did was attack me. Above I repeated my theorem. I now present its corollary. Those who tend to consistently see any intellectual criticism of their path as a personal attack and overreact to it with a need to defend that path don't really believe in it that strongly. If they did, what *other people* believe wouldn't really affect what they believe, let alone leave them threatened, panicky, and abusive. So many unsupported assumptions and black-and-white oversimplifications. Let me just pick one of them, because it's a constant theme of your bashing of people with whom you disagree: the idea that anyone who defends their POV must not believe in it that strongly. Of course, that's by no means universally true, although it may be in some cases. The *purpose* of taking that position is to dismiss without consideration the arguments of those who don't agree with you. Since you frequently defend your positions, why should we not assume that you don't believe in them that strongly either? You'll respond that you *don't* believe in them that strongly. Fine, so why should we even pay any attention to your arguments? You'll respond that we don't *have* to. Also fine, except that when someone brushes off *your* arguments, you go ballistic and accuse them of trying to avoid the issues. In other words, it's a double standard: one for Barry, and a different one for everybody who disagrees with Barry. They're just theories, dude. If you've got different theories, present them. But don't tell me not to present mine. That's not defending your path, it's spiritual fascism. Nowhere did Michael even *begin* to suggest that you shouldn't present yours. You've just done exactly what you were accusing Michael of doing, interpreting his questioning of your positions as an attack, even to the point of fantasizing that he was telling you to shut up. And you're accusing *him* of paranoia? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I repeat my theorem. Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. snip You claimed that I said or implied that bhakti should not be defended and that its POV should be ignored. I didn't. Just above I have presented a fairly civilized, socially-acceptable method by which a rational person could defend bhakti and present its POV. But you just got done saying, Real bhaktis just live their lifestyle, quietly. Fake or mood-maker bhaktis tend to feel that they need to defend it. Now you're saying real bhaktis *can* defend it. Which is it? Is it OK with you for bhaktis to defend their path, or not? Does such a defense expose them as fakes or moodmakers, or not? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] To Ingegerd: What is Bhakti (was: What is art? )
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you please tell me what the word bhakti means? Bhakti is a Sanskrit word which means devotion, adoration, love or worship of the Divine or the Guru as a manifestation thereof. It can also mean the love of God toward the devotee. As a sentiment, Bhakti can be part of many path,but there is also a specific path called 'Bhakti Yoga' (Path of Devotion) as opposed to 'Jnana Yoga'(wisdom) or 'Raja Yoga' (meditation). It is the contention of many Saints like Ramana Maharshi or Ramakrishna, that all these paths are not contradictionary, but finally merge into each other.Somebody (I don't remember whom) once said that while Ramakrishna was a Bhakta on the outside, he was a Jnani inside, and Ramana Maharshi was a Jnani outside and a Bhakta inside. A Jnani (Sage, a saint who followed the path of wisdom) will also, automatically develop devotion, his path is also a way of surrendering the intellect. So has Ramana Maharshi, who almost exclusively taught self-enquiry, written many devotional hymns to Shiva in the form of Mount Arunachala.Besides that, in all Hindu related faiths, the reverence and adoration of the Guru is prescribed, independend of the path. The Bhakti path explicitely seeks to use emotion to be a way to unite or come near to God. This usually employs a dualistic conception, since it is thought, that love requires an object. Yet in the non-dualistic philosophies, like Advaita, Bhakti still plays a role, either in the love to the Guru, who is traditionally helt to be an embodiement of God, or in the form of a Istha-devata, a Form of the ultimate, especially chosen for worship, which in the case of worship is identified as the formless Brahman, adopting a form for the sake of worship. Worship can have many forms, almost as many as there are people. Traditionally Bhaktas (Adherents of Bhakti) will do Japa, i.e. repetition of the name or names of their chosen ideal. They will sing Kirtanas (again rythmic repetitions of divine names) and Bhajans (devotional songs and poems), do pujas (ceremonies similar to the TM puja) etc. Service is also regarded as a Bhakti practise. The Narada Bhakti sutras deline different modes of feeling (Bhavas) or attitudes of the Bhakta to the deity: Servant: the relationship of a servant to a master, like that of Hanuman to Rama Friendship: The relationship of a friend, like that between Arjuna and Krishna. This relationship is closer than the previous. Parental relationship: God is seen as one's child - even closer. Husband/wife relationship: God is seen as romantic partner, like in the case of the Gopis and Krishna. At all there are 9 such modes or Bhavas. In my references to this topic, I made no proposal for the explicit path of Bhakti Yoga - contrary to what Barry and others here claimed, but was referring to the spontaneaus Bhakti that may arise on any path at any stage, the feeling of adoration and love towards a Guru, the natural opening of the heart as a mystic process. I was making the suggestion, that those who had experienced such an opening, would also recognize it in the expression of others, even if the follow a different ideal (God/Guru) or religion (Islam). I thought this to be quite natural among advanced spiritual practitioners. Actually most of conventional religion may be termed as a sort of Bhakti Yoga. In terms of TM: Maharishi rarely uses this term but he makes very definite allusions to the Bhakti path or rather element in his teaching, when he speaks of 'the finest feeling level', which in his eyes 'has to be protected'. In Maharsihis philosophy Bhakti plays the essential role on the path between CC and GC. He also said that the greatest enemies on the path are doubt, disappointnment, and there was a third one I forgot. You could say: Karma Yoga CC loss of identification with the Doer. (Non-doership of the Gita) Bhakti Yoga GC Increased perception of the Self in the outside, the finest relative Jnana Yoga UC Ultimate merging of the Self inside with the Self everywhere. Seeing everything in terms of the Self. Thus the fulfillment of Bhakti. There is a certain trap in CC: As everything is witnessed, there is a basic separation between the Self and the world. Action becomes spontaneus, and there is no incentive to go on. Thats why MMY once said that rather than dying in CC, one should smoke a cigarette. Meaning, you can't go further when dying in CC. It is only Love that can bridge the gap between Self and the world when being in CC. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
Thanks for the perfect analysis. I intentionally did not defend myself, in order to not give him new food.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many unsupported assumptions and black-and-white oversimplifications. Let me just pick one of them, because it's a constant theme of your bashing of people with whom you disagree: the idea that anyone who defends their POV must not believe in it that strongly. Of course, that's by no means universally true, although it may be in some cases. The *purpose* of taking that position is to dismiss without consideration the arguments of those who don't agree with you. Since you frequently defend your positions, why should we not assume that you don't believe in them that strongly either? You'll respond that you *don't* believe in them that strongly. Fine, so why should we even pay any attention to your arguments? You'll respond that we don't *have* to. Also fine, except that when someone brushes off *your* arguments, you go ballistic and accuse them of trying to avoid the issues. In other words, it's a double standard: one for Barry, and a different one for everybody who disagrees with Barry. They're just theories, dude. If you've got different theories, present them. But don't tell me not to present mine. That's not defending your path, it's spiritual fascism. Nowhere did Michael even *begin* to suggest that you shouldn't present yours. You've just done exactly what you were accusing Michael of doing, interpreting his questioning of your positions as an attack, even to the point of fantasizing that he was telling you to shut up. And you're accusing *him* of paranoia? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] John Black's raja-hood
on 3/11/06 1:40 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding of John Black and how he got on the raja course comes from a person who was friends with John's sister. I was told that the Black in Black and Decker tools was John's family/dad who die about a year or two ago and left mondo money. Make that Bright and Decker tools. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Fatigue of the Non-Self
on 3/11/06 1:54 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't you all get tired of this endless inquiry-sSelf or otherwise? Wasn't the initial instruction meditate and act without intellectualizing life? Wasn't it once Everyday is life, we don't pass up the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...what makes you think you'll enjoy Unity Consciousness if you're not enjoying the process of getting there... MMY (paraphrase) I believe I may have inspired him to say this. I was very busy of passing over the present for a glorious future and was on the mike in S. Fallsburg making a fool of myself when Maharishi said this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Signs of braahmii sthitiH?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be wrong to estimate the state of cosmic consciousness in a man by anything he displays in the field of action, because this state accepts every activity, great or small, and at the same time retains complete stillness. His state cannot, in principle, be judged by what he does. There are no outer signs of a man who has risen to this state of Brahman. OTB, p. 174 (Penguin paperback). eSaa braahmii sthitiH paartha nainaaM praapya vimuhyati sthitvaasyaam anta-kaale 'pi brahma-nirvaaNam Rcchati Don't tell that to Vaj. He's the grand arbiter of who is and isn't enlightened. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. Or the firing of a particular set of neurons may be only the physiological manifestation of any number of different mind/consciousness states (or maybe that's what you're saying). Attributing a particular experience merely to the firing of neurons, and assuming any differences are simply a matter of individual interpretations of the experience, may be a function of the fact that the firing of the neurons is the only thing we're currently able to measure. Actually, the specific study Barry describes sounds suspiciously like the work of Michael Persinger, the dude who tried to associate TM with epilepsy on the basis of a questionnaire asking subjects about such things as experiences of vibrations, hearing one's name called, paranormal phenomena, profound meaning from reading poetry/prose, and religious phenomenology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: THE STRUGGLE OF INDIVIDUALITY TO PERPETUATE ITS ILLUSION Total snip, Realizing that one is essentailly a facet of eternal oneness, should we see duality as a problem and, not enjoy it? Most people agree that a movie is not a reality but still enjoy it. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. My response to the above situation would be to tell the guy to familiarize himself the qualities of a sociopath, shown below, and avoid interaction with such people -- be especially aware that the spiritual world provides excellent cover for many sociopaths who misuse concepts like Self, non-doer, and everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law to support their mundane and destructive manipulative behaviors. Be especially wary of any phony egoists who declares the list below is not applicable to them because of their special state of Enlightenment. Qualities of a Sociopath # Grandiose sense of self-worth # Pathological lying # Cunning/manipulative # Lack of remorse or guilt # Shallow emotions # Charismatic/superficial charm # Lack of empathy # Parasitic lifestyle # Poor behavioral controls # Narcisstic # Early behavior problems with other children # Lack of realistic, long-term plans # Promiscuous sexual behavior # Impulsivity # Failure to accept responsibility for own actions Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Don't you all get tired of this endless inquiry-sSelf or otherwise? Wasn't the initial instruction meditate and act without intellectualizing life? Wasn't it once Everyday is life, we don't pass up the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...what makes you think you'll enjoy Unity Consciousness if you're not enjoying the process of getting there... MMY (paraphrase) Maybe, to just remind you that this forum is not excluding non TM practitionars. Self-inquiry is just a different path. The initial instruction has long been superceded with so many newer instructions from Galactic Command that you need to be OCD to stay on the program these days. That was my revelation of the week - how many TBs I know in town are actually obsessive-compulsive. They demonstrate it in stereotypical ways like collecting things and phobias, but I see now why they've gotten deeper into tmo while I've been distancing - they actually eat up all the mov't rules about living: which yagyas to do at which time of the year after having eaten which dosha balancing food while wearing which color gem, after doing which sutras in which order at which time while being careful to avoid which other bad vib people or places while living in their gold and beige rectangle facing east ... It feeds/placates obsessiveness. Anyway, that's why many people in ffld got influenced by self-inquiry stuff, which is actually so much less intellectual than what they were used to and in most cases was a springboard to a more simple, inner centered approach to spiritual life. My obsession of the week -- I still don't get rus who pick and choose MMY quotes from the 60s that they like, but ignore everything else he's been saying in copius volumes for the past 20 yrs. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Don't you all get tired of this endless inquiry-sSelf or otherwise? Wasn't the initial instruction meditate and act without intellectualizing life? Wasn't it once Everyday is life, we don't pass up the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...what makes you think you'll enjoy Unity Consciousness if you're not enjoying the process of getting there... MMY (paraphrase) Maybe, to just remind you that this forum is not excluding non TM practitionars. Self-inquiry is just a different path. The initial instruction has long been superceded with so many newer instructions from Galactic Command that you need to be OCD to stay on the program these days. That was my revelation of the week - how many TBs I know in town are actually obsessive-compulsive. They demonstrate it in stereotypical ways like collecting things and phobias, but I see now why they've gotten deeper into tmo while I've been distancing - they actually eat up all the mov't rules about living: which yagyas to do at which time of the year after having eaten which dosha balancing food while wearing which color gem, after doing which sutras in which order at which time while being careful to avoid which other bad vib people or places while living in their gold and beige rectangle facing east ... It feeds/placates obsessiveness. Anyway, that's why many people in ffld got influenced by self-inquiry stuff, which is actually so much less intellectual than what they were used to and in most cases was a springboard to a more simple, inner centered approach to spiritual life. My obsession of the week -- I still don't get rus who pick and choose MMY quotes from the 60s that they like, but ignore everything else he's been saying in copius volumes for the past 20 yrs. Mark At least in reference to the quote I paraphrased above, I don't kinow if it's that everything else of the last 20+ years is being ignored as opposed to considering how much more balanced that partucular advice offered by MMY was, especially, as you point out, to all the confining persnickety rules since. AnonyFF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Ingegerd: What is Bhakti (was: What is art? )
Thank you for a very profound explanation, that I appreciate very much. Without knowing the term Bhakti - it seems that I the last year uncounscious has chosen the traditional Bhakti path. I am very aware of mood-making. But when it comes natural - it feels natural. Not permanant - maybe in the future. Thank you again. Ingegerd Bhakti is a Sanskrit word which means devotion, adoration, love or worship of the Divine or the Guru as a manifestation thereof. It can also mean the love of God toward the devotee. As a sentiment, Bhakti can be part of many path,but there is also a specific path called 'Bhakti Yoga' (Path of Devotion) as opposed to 'Jnana Yoga'(wisdom) or 'Raja Yoga' (meditation). It is the contention of many Saints like Ramana Maharshi or Ramakrishna, that all these paths are not contradictionary, but finally merge into each other.Somebody (I don't remember whom) once said that while Ramakrishna was a Bhakta on the outside, he was a Jnani inside, and Ramana Maharshi was a Jnani outside and a Bhakta inside. A Jnani (Sage, a saint who followed the path of wisdom) will also, automatically develop devotion, his path is also a way of surrendering the intellect. So has Ramana Maharshi, who almost exclusively taught self-enquiry, written many devotional hymns to Shiva in the form of Mount Arunachala.Besides that, in all Hindu related faiths, the reverence and adoration of the Guru is prescribed, independend of the path. The Bhakti path explicitely seeks to use emotion to be a way to unite or come near to God. This usually employs a dualistic conception, since it is thought, that love requires an object. Yet in the non-dualistic philosophies, like Advaita, Bhakti still plays a role, either in the love to the Guru, who is traditionally helt to be an embodiement of God, or in the form of a Istha-devata, a Form of the ultimate, especially chosen for worship, which in the case of worship is identified as the formless Brahman, adopting a form for the sake of worship. Worship can have many forms, almost as many as there are people. Traditionally Bhaktas (Adherents of Bhakti) will do Japa, i.e. repetition of the name or names of their chosen ideal. They will sing Kirtanas (again rythmic repetitions of divine names) and Bhajans (devotional songs and poems), do pujas (ceremonies similar to the TM puja) etc. Service is also regarded as a Bhakti practise. The Narada Bhakti sutras deline different modes of feeling (Bhavas) or attitudes of the Bhakta to the deity: Servant: the relationship of a servant to a master, like that of Hanuman to Rama Friendship: The relationship of a friend, like that between Arjuna and Krishna. This relationship is closer than the previous. Parental relationship: God is seen as one's child - even closer. Husband/wife relationship: God is seen as romantic partner, like in the case of the Gopis and Krishna. At all there are 9 such modes or Bhavas. In my references to this topic, I made no proposal for the explicit path of Bhakti Yoga - contrary to what Barry and others here claimed, but was referring to the spontaneaus Bhakti that may arise on any path at any stage, the feeling of adoration and love towards a Guru, the natural opening of the heart as a mystic process. I was making the suggestion, that those who had experienced such an opening, would also recognize it in the expression of others, even if the follow a different ideal (God/Guru) or religion (Islam). I thought this to be quite natural among advanced spiritual practitioners. Actually most of conventional religion may be termed as a sort of Bhakti Yoga. In terms of TM: Maharishi rarely uses this term but he makes very definite allusions to the Bhakti path or rather element in his teaching, when he speaks of 'the finest feeling level', which in his eyes 'has to be protected'. In Maharsihis philosophy Bhakti plays the essential role on the path between CC and GC. He also said that the greatest enemies on the path are doubt, disappointnment, and there was a third one I forgot. You could say: Karma Yoga CC loss of identification with the Doer. (Non- doership of the Gita) Bhakti Yoga GC Increased perception of the Self in the outside, the finest relative Jnana Yoga UC Ultimate merging of the Self inside with the Self everywhere. Seeing everything in terms of the Self. Thus the fulfillment of Bhakti. There is a certain trap in CC: As everything is witnessed, there is a basic separation between the Self and the world. Action becomes spontaneus, and there is no incentive to go on. Thats why MMY once said that rather than dying in CC, one should smoke a cigarette. Meaning, you can't go further when dying in CC. It is only Love that can bridge the gap between Self and the world when being in CC. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach
[FairfieldLife] To t3rinity (was Re: To Ingegerd: What is Bhakti)
See how much more effective it is to present the positive side of your beliefs than to whine about somebody attacking them? And didn't it *feel* better? I rest my case... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you for a very profound explanation, that I appreciate very much. Without knowing the term Bhakti - it seems that I the last year uncounscious has chosen the traditional Bhakti path. I am very aware of mood-making. But when it comes natural - it feels natural. Not permanant - maybe in the future. Thank you again. Ingegerd Bhakti is a Sanskrit word which means devotion, adoration, love or worship of the Divine or the Guru as a manifestation thereof. It can also mean the love of God toward the devotee. As a sentiment, Bhakti can be part of many path,but there is also a specific path called 'Bhakti Yoga' (Path of Devotion) as opposed to 'Jnana Yoga'(wisdom) or 'Raja Yoga' (meditation). It is the contention of many Saints like Ramana Maharshi or Ramakrishna, that all these paths are not contradictionary, but finally merge into each other.Somebody (I don't remember whom) once said that while Ramakrishna was a Bhakta on the outside, he was a Jnani inside, and Ramana Maharshi was a Jnani outside and a Bhakta inside. A Jnani (Sage, a saint who followed the path of wisdom) will also, automatically develop devotion, his path is also a way of surrendering the intellect. So has Ramana Maharshi, who almost exclusively taught self-enquiry, written many devotional hymns to Shiva in the form of Mount Arunachala.Besides that, in all Hindu related faiths, the reverence and adoration of the Guru is prescribed, independend of the path. The Bhakti path explicitely seeks to use emotion to be a way to unite or come near to God. This usually employs a dualistic conception, since it is thought, that love requires an object. Yet in the non-dualistic philosophies, like Advaita, Bhakti still plays a role, either in the love to the Guru, who is traditionally helt to be an embodiement of God, or in the form of a Istha-devata, a Form of the ultimate, especially chosen for worship, which in the case of worship is identified as the formless Brahman, adopting a form for the sake of worship. Worship can have many forms, almost as many as there are people. Traditionally Bhaktas (Adherents of Bhakti) will do Japa, i.e. repetition of the name or names of their chosen ideal. They will sing Kirtanas (again rythmic repetitions of divine names) and Bhajans (devotional songs and poems), do pujas (ceremonies similar to the TM puja) etc. Service is also regarded as a Bhakti practise. The Narada Bhakti sutras deline different modes of feeling (Bhavas) or attitudes of the Bhakta to the deity: Servant: the relationship of a servant to a master, like that of Hanuman to Rama Friendship: The relationship of a friend, like that between Arjuna and Krishna. This relationship is closer than the previous. Parental relationship: God is seen as one's child - even closer. Husband/wife relationship: God is seen as romantic partner, like in the case of the Gopis and Krishna. At all there are 9 such modes or Bhavas. In my references to this topic, I made no proposal for the explicit path of Bhakti Yoga - contrary to what Barry and others here claimed, but was referring to the spontaneaus Bhakti that may arise on any path at any stage, the feeling of adoration and love towards a Guru, the natural opening of the heart as a mystic process. I was making the suggestion, that those who had experienced such an opening, would also recognize it in the expression of others, even if the follow a different ideal (God/Guru) or religion (Islam). I thought this to be quite natural among advanced spiritual practitioners. Actually most of conventional religion may be termed as a sort of Bhakti Yoga. In terms of TM: Maharishi rarely uses this term but he makes very definite allusions to the Bhakti path or rather element in his teaching, when he speaks of 'the finest feeling level', which in his eyes 'has to be protected'. In Maharsihis philosophy Bhakti plays the essential role on the path between CC and GC. He also said that the greatest enemies on the path are doubt, disappointnment, and there was a third one I forgot. You could say: Karma Yoga CC loss of identification with the Doer. (Non- doership of the Gita) Bhakti Yoga GC Increased perception of the Self in the outside, the finest relative Jnana Yoga UC Ultimate merging of the Self inside with the Self everywhere. Seeing everything in terms of the Self. Thus the fulfillment of Bhakti. There is a certain trap in CC: As everything is witnessed, there is a basic separation between the Self and the world. Action
[FairfieldLife] Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
SELF-DOUBT AND CYNICISM VS. PROFOUND TRUST From a Talk by Adyashanti There is nothing more insidiously destructive to the attainment of liberation than self-doubt and cynicism. Doubt is a movement of the conditioned mind that always claims that it's not possible ... that freedom is not possible for me [or for you - or at least it is very very difficult, very distant]. Doubt always knows; it knows that nothing is possible. And in this knowing, doubt robs you of the pos- sibility of anything truly new or transformative from happening. Fur- thermore, doubt is always accompanied by a pervasive cynicism that unconsciously puts a negative spin on whatever it touches. Cynicism is a world view which protects the ego from scrutiny by maintaining a negative stance in relationship to what it does not know, does not want to know, or cannot know. Many spiritual seekers have no idea how cynical and doubt-laden they actually are. It is this blindness and denial of the presence of doubt and cynicism that makes the birth of a profound trust impossible - a trust without which final libera- tion will always remain simply a dream. - Adyashanti [That trust is also often called homage, or even devotion or surrender - and the path that encompasses this openness of heart is called bhakti. Once Self-realization is ripening, this open- ness of heart in devotion is essential in order to expand out and meet and imbibe your god/goddess. - MDG] BHAGAVAD GITA ON HOMAGE, REPEATED INQUIRY, AND SERVICE For example, in the Bhagavad Gita, 4:34, Lord Krishna says: Through homage, repeated inquiry, and service, the men of knowledge who have experienced Reality will teach you knowledge. Maharishi's commentary says: By 'homage' is meant submission or surrender. The commentary says that surrender to the teacher (ultimately to the Truth that the teacher is a reflector of), is the prerequisite for asking questions (repeated inquiry, or curiosity). After devotion, the questions are true seekings for deeper understanding. There is no hint of any intention to diminish the teacher or test the teacher or argue with the teacher or improve the teacher - no hint of any in- tention to doubt the teacher or the Truth. There is no intention to play the game I'm more OK, based on making you less OK. The teacher has already been accepted fully as a conduit of Truth, and the inten- tion of the inquiry is to make everyone more and more OK, more and more infinite/vast/divine. Then the heart of the teacher opens wide, any and all questions are welcome and appropriate, and deep knowledge flows in response to them. This acceptance of the teacher is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through the teacher. This trust or surrender means that the individual has gotten out of the way to some extent, has dropped their ego-defend- ing patterns, has dropped their guard. Before trust, before devotion, the questions are not really from a surrendered place. The questioner has not accepted the teacher as a teacher, the questioner has not accepted the limitations of his/her own relative ego/intellect, and therefore there is not that open flow of knowledge. In the questions there may be some lack of respect for the teacher, some implication that the teacher is not competent, some belittling or depreciation of the teacher. The teacher's heart is not opened by this, the recipient's guard is not put down, and the flow of Truth is not profound. We all know from everyday experience that questions (curiosity) gener- ally can have two very distinct purposes, even in mundane conversation: 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; to create love/togetherness/unity by going deeper into knowledge; to open the conduit for richer flow of knowledge. 2. To hide something behind the smokescreen of a question: a. To hide our criticism/anger, to avoid making a directly critical statement. b. To hide that we're trying to control or dominate someone - to hide that we're trying to manipulate someone or trying to engage someone in a game. c. To create doubt/division/fear. In this case, questions are actually deceptions, a kind of passive/ aggressive behavior. Rather than saying what we feel in direct statements, we hide behind questions. If challenged, if our true but hidden feelings or motives are noticed, we can always say I didn't mean any criticism - I was just wondering Often it is apparent to observers, and to the recipient of the question, that we were NOT just wondering. The question has an obvious edge to it, or it asks for an answer that we already know or could figure out, or it is pretty blatantly a manipulation, or it just leaves the recipient feeling odd, as though they've been tricked or mess- ed with. Although not so easy to say in words, the difference in how it feels to
[FairfieldLife] Re: John Black's raja-hood
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/11/06 1:40 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding of John Black and how he got on the raja course comes from a person who was friends with John's sister. I was told that the Black in Black and Decker tools was John's family/dad who die about a year or two ago and left mondo money. Make that Bright and Decker tools. what was the one little mistake that he made that caused him originally to be on the outs with the TMO and MMY? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. In fact, the only physiological studies I am aware of suggest this . Interestingly enough, some physiological studies on Buddhist meditators suggest that at least some Buddhist techniques ARE inducing something similar to the pathological state, unlike TM... Yeah, yeah...we get it. TM good, other techniques bad. :-) Of course, I didn't say every Buddhist technique, only some -- in fact one, and I may be incorrect about that. However, there IS a distinct physiological difference between witnessing ala TM, and dissociation caused by traumatic sexual abuse. The latter seems to be due to a strengthening of the analytical side of the brain at the expense of the rest, while the former seems to be due to a more wholistic functioning where one side doesn't always have an advantage on the other, and where both sides tend to be in-tune with each other, as shown by more coherent brainwave activity when comparing the two sides. But what about my real point? Would you be comfortable with the possibility that many or even *all* of the states of mind that have been *interpreted* as enlight- ment experiences over the centuries may be nothing more (nor less) than a few neurons in the brain deciding to wake up and boogie? That has been MMY's point for at least 30 years: Spiritual and Material Values Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith -it is on the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable. -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi I *am* comfortable with that. I've *experienced* some things I *interpreted* as enlightenment. But at the same time, I know that I was programmed for many years *to* interpret such experiences as enlightenment. The experience itself may have been nothing more than a few random neurons in my brain deciding to do their laundry. If a given technique consistently leads to a specific state of consciousness that spontaneously gives rise to descriptions of enlightenment similar to those found in various spiritual traditions, it isn't a stretch to suggest that the state of enlightenment exists, and is facilitated by practice of said technique. It doesn't really *matter* that much to me whether such a
[FairfieldLife] Re: Illusion of individuality; labels; true bhakti; the story of Guru Dev and hi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having now read most of MDG's seemingly endless rap, it strikes me that, for someone who claims to be functioning from the level of Self, there is a great deal of clinging there to the notion of *path*. He claims to have realized the Self, but still talks in terms of the things that keep someone from the goal of realizing the Self, in his case the ego or individual self. These obstacles to the path are consistently portrayed as BAD, thieves, the things that keep us from realization. It makes me wonder if realization ever occurred for him. My first subjective experience of realization was the same as every subsequent experience of it in that the first thing I noticed was that This is nothing new. This has *always* been. There has never been a time when this experience of enlight- enment was not present. I just didn't realize it was present, that's all. The *same* subjective experience has been echoed by many people here. I seldom worry about whether realization is new or not until the state starts to fade away and I start induling in intellectual analysis in a futile attempt to hold onto it. So it does make one wonder how realized MDG's realization really is. Sounds to me like he's still talking theory, not experience. And, judging from his sig at the end of the rant, selling it. Just my two centimes. Drive through... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Neo-Advaitin Ramesh Balsekar on Satya Sai Baba
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: A disciple, who had been with this guru for over twenty years, caught him in the middle of a sex act with young boys. He had never previously known that his guru did this. Very shocked, he came back to see the guru telling him that he could not tolerate such actions, and that he was leaving the ashram immediately. The guru's response was, You have created the problem. Now you have to solve it! Ramesh expressed his agreement with this response and said, Everything is only an event ruled by cosmic law and by divine will...It is the programming of the body-mind mechanism... and nothing can be done about it... the guru is not concerned! The problem with mistaking the *perception* that I am not the doer for the reality. In a nutshell. As several brain researchers have postulated, the *perception* of not being the doer may be purely a physiological thing, related to a particular area of the brain becoming active. As I remember from the (I think) Time magazine article that discussed this research, they pointed out that this perception was *not* limited to those who follow a spiritual path. But those on a spiritual path tended to *interpret* the perception positively, as a sign of progress or enlightenment, when in fact it might be just a particular set of neurons swtich- ing from OFF to ON. Before you ask, I don't have the reference. It was a big article on God and brain functioning that I read while waiting in a dentist's office. Of course, the experience of samadhi during TM and in those TMers reporting 24/7 witnessing, may be due to a different physiological state than the pathological state. Or the firing of a particular set of neurons may be only the physiological manifestation of any number of different mind/consciousness states (or maybe that's what you're saying). I think we can take the western view of consciousness being secondary for any state prior to Unity, not because your point is invalid, but simply because there's no concrete way to measure a distinction. Attributing a particular experience merely to the firing of neurons, and assuming any differences are simply a matter of individual interpretations of the experience, may be a function of the fact that the firing of the neurons is the only thing we're currently able to measure. Sure, but that may apply no mater HOW subtle our measuring instruments become. Actually, the specific study Barry describes sounds suspiciously like the work of Michael Persinger, the dude who tried to associate TM with epilepsy on the basis of a questionnaire asking subjects about such things as experiences of vibrations, hearing one's name called, paranormal phenomena, profound meaning from reading poetry/prose, and religious phenomenology. Sure, peringer's work influences a lot of people, including Alan Watts. On the other hand, we have MMY's take on the subject that I quoted a earlier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. So how much would YOU consider to be a reasonable assessment of the coast of eliminating poverty in the world (defined by having a lifestyle that provides enough comfort to allow at least SOME time to devote to self-actualizing activities, including TM, and playing guitar/etc)? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
On Mar 11, 2006, at 1:50 PM, Michael Dean Goodman wrote: We all know from everyday experience that questions (curiosity) gener- ally can have two very distinct purposes, even in mundane conversation: 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; to create    love/togetherness/unity by going deeper into knowledge; to open    the conduit for richer flow of knowledge. 2. To hide something behind the smokescreen of a question:    a. To hide our criticism/anger, to avoid making a directly critical   statement.    b. To hide that we're trying to control or dominate someone - to   hide that we're trying to manipulate someone or trying to engage   someone in a game.    c. To create doubt/division/fear.    In this case, questions are actually deceptions, a kind of passive/    aggressive behavior. Rather than saying what we feel in direct    statements, we hide behind questions. If challenged, if our true    but hidden feelings or motives are noticed, we can always say I    didn't mean any criticism - I was just wondering Often it is    apparent to observers, and to the recipient of the question, that    we were NOT just wondering. The question has an obvious edge to    it, or it asks for an answer that we already know or could figure    out, or it is pretty blatantly a manipulation, or it just leaves    the recipient feeling odd, as though they've been tricked or mess-    ed with. Michael, have you ever heard the expression, Get a life? That was meant completely sincerely. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Mason]
Sometime in the 1980's, the Libyan Premier, Muamar Gaddafi approached india for two Nuclear Warheads. He said, in return he would supply unlimited amount of Oil. The Indian government wisely refused the offer.Premanand Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 12:22:39 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras When I visited Libya I found a most advanced and prosperous nation - not a bunch of crazy terrorists. In Iran I found people the friendliest of any country that I had visited - not a country looking to alienate itself. In Afghanistan I found a people curious about the outside world - not a bunch of fantatical zealots wanting to smash technology and keep women from being educated. When I first visited India, I encountered helpful people, proud that young westerners should want to visit their country - not a bunch of religious bigots with racial hangups. But, of course, I only met with ordinary people and they are not the ones that cause the trouble. Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael, have you ever heard the expression, Get a life? That was meant completely sincerely. LOL. But you miss the point of Michael's definitions, Sal. *You* don't get to decide whether your question is sincere or not -- *he* does. :-) I know this might mark me in his eyes as one of the very cynical types that he's talking about :-), but y'know I really can't help but wonder about Michael's definitions of the purpose of questions one can ask a spiritual teacher: We all know from everyday experience that questions (curiosity) generally can have two very distinct purposes, even in mundane conversation: 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; to create love/togetherness/unity by going deeper into knowledge; to open the conduit for richer flow of knowledge. 2. To hide something behind the smokescreen of a question: a. To hide our criticism/anger, to avoid making a directly critical statement. b. To hide that we're trying to control or dominate someone - to hide that we're trying to manipulate someone or trying to engage someone in a game. c. To create doubt/division/fear. His definition of the first (good) type of question seems to be that they have to be based on total and complete surrender and submission to the teacher. His definition of the second type of question seems to be that their purpose is by definition bad or nefarious, and that therefore the questions he assigns to this category can be justifiably disregarded, and the questioner demonized. Doesn't it strike you as fascinating that a person who has set *himself* up as a for-profit spiritual teacher is *already* promoting a closed belief system in which any question about his *own* actions that he doesn't like can automatically be written off as a) angry, b) an attempt at control or game- playing, or c) an attempt to sow seeds of doubt and fear? If I were *really* cynical, I would suggest that this kind of closed belief system doesn't bode well for Michael's clients. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
Someone called Gerbil accused Maharishi of taking our own teachings and giving it back to us.?? His teachings got better and better over time.?? Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 09:00:40 -0600Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] The Fatigue of the Non-Self I believe I may have inspired him to say this. I was very busy of passingover the present for a glorious future and was on the mike in S. Fallsburg making a fool of myself when Maharishi said this. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Please Note, the Vanarahs of Monkeys are incarnations of Devas. Vali was the incarnation of indra the king of the Devas. Hanuman incarnation of Vayu and so on. Ravana got a boon fromShiva that no celestial could kill him. So the Devas incarnated themselves as Monkeys to assist Vishnu who incarnated as Rama. Note that these were not ordinary animals. They were intellectual and supernatural beings.Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that theWesterners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that astheir reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnatedin the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred tospeak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westernerswere more sincere. Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
On Mar 11, 2006, at 3:40 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Michael, have you ever heard the expression, Get a life? > That was meant completely sincerely. LOL. But you miss the point of Michael's definitions, Sal. *You* don't get to decide whether your question is sincere or not -- *he* does. :-) Ah, yes, I forgot that all-important caveat--only someone as far down the path as he is can possibly understand the workings of other peoples' minds. I know this might mark me in his eyes as one of the very cynical types that he's talking about :-), but y'know I really can't help but wonder about Michael's definitions of the purpose of questions one can ask a spiritual teacher: > We all know from everyday experience that questions > (curiosity) generally can have two very distinct > purposes, even in mundane conversation: > > 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; > to create love/togetherness/unity by going deeper > into knowledge; to open the conduit for richer > flow of knowledge. > > 2. To hide something behind the smokescreen of a question: > a. To hide our criticism/anger, to avoid making a >   directly critical statement. > b. To hide that we're trying to control or dominate >   someone - to hide that we're trying to manipulate >   someone or trying to engage someone in a game. > c. To create doubt/division/fear. His definition of the first (good) type of question seems to be that they have to be based on total and complete surrender and submission to the teacher. His definition of the second type of question seems to be that their purpose is by definition bad or nefarious, and that therefore the questions he assigns to this category can be justifiably disregarded, and the questioner demonized. Doesn't it strike you as fascinating that a person who has set *himself* up as a for-profit spiritual teacher is *already* promoting a closed belief system in which any question about his *own* actions that he doesn't like can automatically be written off as a) angry, b) an attempt at control or game- playing, or c) an attempt to sow seeds of doubt and fear? Yes it sure does--marginalize people so you can then dismiss them with a few well-chosen labels. Poor Michael--everyone is trying to dump on him, ask him phony questions (horrors) designed, apparently, to throw up a 'smokescreen,' to hide their 'real intentions,' etc. He's that important. But he's got everyone figured out, so the jig is up. I mean, what's a sincere, non-manipulative, non-controlling Tantra teacher to do, especially since he has to live in a world dominated by so many p/a assholes and game-players? It just isn't fair. If I were *really* cynical, I would suggest that this kind of closed belief system doesn't bode well for Michael's clients. Or for Michael. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. So how much would YOU consider to be a reasonable assessment of the coast of eliminating poverty in the world (defined by having a lifestyle that provides enough comfort to allow at least SOME time to devote to self-actualizing activities, including TM, and playing guitar/etc)? Jeffrey Sachs says it is about 150 billion a year for the next 10-15 years. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 markmeredith@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff anonyff@ wrote: Don't you all get tired of this endless inquiry-sSelf or otherwise? Wasn't the initial instruction meditate and act without intellectualizing life? Wasn't it once Everyday is life, we don't pass up the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...what makes you think you'll enjoy Unity Consciousness if you're not enjoying the process of getting there... MMY (paraphrase) Maybe, to just remind you that this forum is not excluding non TM practitionars. Self-inquiry is just a different path. The initial instruction has long been superceded with so many newer instructions from Galactic Command that you need to be OCD to stay on the program these days. That was my revelation of the week - how many TBs I know in town are actually obsessive-compulsive. They demonstrate it in stereotypical ways like collecting things and phobias, but I see now why they've gotten deeper into tmo while I've been distancing - they actually eat up all the mov't rules about living: which yagyas to do at which time of the year after having eaten which dosha balancing food while wearing which color gem, after doing which sutras in which order at which time while being careful to avoid which other bad vib people or places while living in their gold and beige rectangle facing east ... It feeds/placates obsessiveness. Anyway, that's why many people in ffld got influenced by self-inquiry stuff, which is actually so much less intellectual than what they were used to and in most cases was a springboard to a more simple, inner centered approach to spiritual life. My obsession of the week -- I still don't get rus who pick and choose MMY quotes from the 60s that they like, but ignore everything else he's been saying in copius volumes for the past 20 yrs. Mark At least in reference to the quote I paraphrased above, I don't kinow if it's that everything else of the last 20+ years is being ignored as opposed to considering how much more balanced that partucular advice offered by MMY was, especially, as you point out, to all the confining persnickety rules since. AnonyFF Does anybody have the full text? Its also one of my favourate quotes that I had written down in my small notebook from movement times. I'm not sure if its the same one that says that when the time is ripe the chirping of a bird, or the smoke of a rotten bus maybe the stimulus to enlightenment. Btw. he said many nice things, even at the time when I left the movement, which is not yet 20 years. Just these weren't the things that got published. They were sort of stray remarks, but very telling. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dean Goodman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many spiritual seekers have no idea how cynical and doubt-laden they actually are. It is this blindness and denial of the presence of doubt and cynicism that makes the birth of a profound trust impossible - a trust without which final libera- tion will always remain simply a dream. - Adyashanti I always liked Adyashanti. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. So how much would YOU consider to be a reasonable assessment of the coast of eliminating poverty in the world (defined by having a lifestyle that provides enough comfort to allow at least SOME time to devote to self-actualizing activities, including TM, and playing guitar/etc)? Jeffrey Sachs says it is about 150 billion a year for the next 10- 15 years. To bring everyone's income in the world up tot he equivalent of lower middle class?? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone called Gerbil accused Maharishi of taking our own teachings and giving it back to us.?? His teachings got better and better over time.?? It's called the Pizza effect. I realized it, when I saw a modern middle class Indian woman circumbulating the Mothers shrine at Ramana Ashram, with a copy of 'Power of Now' under her arm, while the pundits were conducting a Shri Chakra puja. 'The Power of Now' and Deepak Chopra Books are prominently displayed in all bookstores I had seen in India, as well as with all street vendors. Lack of confidence in one's own culture, combined with the blind acceptance of all things new and foreign, has resulted in what social scientists term the pizza-effect. The pizza, originally the simple unleavened bread of Italy, accompanied early emigrants to America, where it became embellished with cheese, anchovies and pepperoni, totally transformed from the original. Year later, the pizza made its triumphant return to Italy, where the new product was eagerly accepted and given pride of place in Italian cuisine. In similar fashion, traditional Lankan culture has become obscured and misunderstood when it is analyzed and dissected using the prism of modem thought. Nevertheless, this puzzling by-product of essentially Western thinking is proudly reintroduced and naively accepted as though it were the original genuine Lankan culture itself. http://kataragama.org/news/eclipse.htm Basically Indian teachings are getting westernized, and then reimported to India, were an eager upcoming Middle Class is just waiting for it. [ As an aside about 'Power of Now', just for curiosities sake: Its basically a copy of a Barry Long book, of whom 'Eckhart' (really Ulrich) Tolle was a disciple, who was published in the 80's and quite unsuccesful. Tolle basically rewrote it, its full of Barry Long teachings. Also the title 'Power of Now' was the theme Tolle had got by the group: He theme at the time was 'Power' AND 'Now'. I heard that Tolle copies Long even up to the style of sweaters he wears. All in all it reminds me of the stories of Chopra and SSRS ] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock jedi_spock@ wrote: Someone called Gerbil accused Maharishi of taking our own teachings and giving it back to us.?? His teachings got better and better over time.?? It's called the Pizza effect. I realized it, when I saw a modern middle class Indian woman circumbulating the Mothers shrine at Ramana Ashram, with a copy of 'Power of Now' under her arm, while the pundits were conducting a Shri Chakra puja. 'The Power of Now' and Deepak Chopra Books are prominently displayed in all bookstores I had seen in India, as well as with all street vendors. Lack of confidence in one's own culture, combined with the blind acceptance of all things new and foreign, has resulted in what social scientists term the pizza-effect. The pizza, originally the simple unleavened bread of Italy, accompanied early emigrants to America, where it became embellished with cheese, anchovies and pepperoni, totally transformed from the original. Year later, the pizza made its triumphant return to Italy, where the new product was eagerly accepted and given pride of place in Italian cuisine. In similar fashion, traditional Lankan culture has become obscured and misunderstood when it is analyzed and dissected using the prism of modem thought. Nevertheless, this puzzling by-product of essentially Western thinking is proudly reintroduced and naively accepted as though it were the original genuine Lankan culture itself. http://kataragama.org/news/eclipse.htm Basically Indian teachings are getting westernized, and then reimported to India, were an eager upcoming Middle Class is just waiting for it. [ As an aside about 'Power of Now', just for curiosities sake: Its basically a copy of a Barry Long book, of whom 'Eckhart' (really Ulrich) Tolle was a disciple, who was published in the 80's and quite unsuccesful. Tolle basically rewrote it, its full of Barry Long teachings. Also the title 'Power of Now' was the theme Tolle had got by the group: He theme at the time was 'Power' AND 'Now'. I heard that Tolle copies Long even up to the style of sweaters he wears. All in all it reminds me of the stories of Chopra and SSRS ] MMY is very mainstream Hindu compared to some organizations. I sat in on a Nichiren meeting last night at the invitation of my Japanese teacher. Very superficial interpretation of things, IMHO, but nice people. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: John Black's raja-hood
on 3/11/06 2:32 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/11/06 1:40 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding of John Black and how he got on the raja course comes from a person who was friends with John's sister. I was told that the Black in Black and Decker tools was John's family/dad who die about a year or two ago and left mondo money. Make that Bright and Decker tools. what was the one little mistake that he made that caused him originally to be on the outs with the TMO and MMY? Organizing a 6-month course group (Interlaken) to do a puja to Maharishi. That made Maharishi very uncomfortable. He turned around and looked at Guru Dev's picture the whole time, and never visited that course again. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is Art?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: We don't agree on what art is as I would call a shiny new Kenworth truck art but we still get on well. N. Fits with the definition -- it moves when you try to define it. :-) I saw a couple of pieces of movable art just yesterday, a gorgeous Ducati motorcycle and a Ferrari Testarossa. They move, too...and quickly. +++ Back East, at my shop in Ct., a local lad would sometimes come in with his Ferrari daytona- they do make some fine hardware. Ah, the Daytona. On my siddhis course, I had the opportunity to buy one, for only 10K. It was a burn job, and would have required 20K worth of repair just to be driveable, but I was a full- time TM teacher, so 10K was as unreachable as a million for me. I got back to southern Calif- ornia and found them selling for 150K. Last of the big V12s, a body design to die for, and an exhaust sound that was art in itself. Sigh. +++ When he would leave the shop and get a bit further from the houses and put his foot in it, it sounded like the rpm doubled- beautiful. Once, he came in with another one that he was doing some work on and it had the the drivers name over the door- Paul Neuman, that had to be different. Another man in town did a lot with Panteras- paint, repairs etc. so there were quite a few out of the ordinary things to be seen. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. If you ever come to India, to Bombay, there is a Samadhi were Nisargadattas Gurus Siddharamesh Ashes are kept. Also Nisargadatta was cremated there, but there is no Samadhi. There are also two Gurubais of N. there, one is Ranjit Maharaj. The place is beautiful, near the ocean. Go to 'Ban Ganga', ask for the Smashan (cremation ground), and have a nice meditation there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banganga_Tank Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We all know from everyday experience that questions (curiosity) generally can have two very distinct purposes, even in mundane conversation: 1. To actually gain understanding, as sincere inquiries; to create love/togetherness/unity by going deeper into knowledge; to open the conduit for richer flow of knowledge. 2. To hide something behind the smokescreen of a question: a. To hide our criticism/anger, to avoid making a directly critical statement. b. To hide that we're trying to control or dominate someone - to hide that we're trying to manipulate someone or trying to engage someone in a game. c. To create doubt/division/fear. His definition of the first (good) type of question seems to be that they have to be based on total and complete surrender and submission to the teacher. Sorry to correct you Barry: but he nowhere says so. He rather speaks of questions *curiosity* even in a 'mundane conversation' This does not imply complete surrender and submission as you falsly say. His definition of the second type of question seems to be that their purpose is by definition bad or nefarious, and that therefore the questions he assigns to this category can be justifiably disregarded, and the questioner demonized. Well, we all know rethoric questions, don't we? (This was a rethoric question). To me this seems to be just an extension on such rethoric questions. Maybe rethoric question, which are not immediately recognizable as such. I don't see any demonization in this. Doesn't it strike you as fascinating that a person who has set *himself* up as a for-profit spiritual teacher is *already* promoting a closed belief system in which any question about his *own* actions that he doesn't like can automatically be written off as a) angry, b) an attempt at control or game- playing, or c) an attempt to sow seeds of doubt and fear? If I were *really* cynical, I would suggest that this kind of closed belief system doesn't bode well for Michael's clients. Well, you are real cynical and say it. Again, rethoric. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
It's rhetorical, Def. :) Sal On Mar 11, 2006, at 6:49 PM, defenders_of_bhakti wrote: Well, we all know rethoric questions, don't we? (This was a rethoric question).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Perhaps so -- and if so, who knows how many different ways what you have said (below) could be reconciled with what Nisargadatta said or if that makes any difference; both ways of understanding the monkey (and bear) armies of the Ramayana speak to different ways of interpreting the narrative. The Puranas and Itihasa speak on so many different levels of analysis. I'd forgotten about the celestial nature of the different monkey players. Thank you. But isn't Hanuman the *son* of Vayu, rather than an incarnation of him? I'm under the belief that Hanuman is an incarnation of Shiva -- a part- incarnation. Again, I'm sure there's evidence of both in the literature. Thanks again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please Note, the Vanarahs of Monkeys are incarnations of Devas. Vali was the incarnation of indra the king of the Devas. Hanuman incarnation of Vayu and so on. Ravana got a boon from Shiva that no celestial could kill him. So the Devas incarnated themselves as Monkeys to assist Vishnu who incarnated as Rama. Note that these were not ordinary animals. They were intellectual and supernatural beings. Marek Reavis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras Another take on Westerners seeking Indian wisdom was expressed more than once by Nisargadatta in the following way. He said that the Westerners had been soldiers in Lord Rama's monkey army; and that as their reward in assisting Rama in rescuing Sita they were reincarnated in the West where they could easily indulge their monkey desires -- lots of food, sex, and fighting. He said, however, that when the monkeys begin to tire of their reward, they come back to India in search of Rama. Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras [Reavis]
Thank you very much for the suggestion. I have the deepest respect (and affection) for Nisargadatta and consider him one the big influences in my life, perhaps second in my heart only to Maharishi and Guru Dev. Coming upon him (here, of course, on FFL) only a few years after I had re-begun meditation and puja after a lengthy hiatus I was overwhelmed with gratitude for his simple elucidation of atma-vichara. It's put everything I ever learned from Maharishi into play. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marek Reavis reavismarek@ wrote: Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 15:20:15 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fake Gurus and the Attack of the Asuras Nisargadatta said on more than one occassion that he preferred to speak with Westerners rather than with Indians because the Westerners were more sincere. If you ever come to India, to Bombay, there is a Samadhi were Nisargadattas Gurus Siddharamesh Ashes are kept. Also Nisargadatta was cremated there, but there is no Samadhi. There are also two Gurubais of N. there, one is Ranjit Maharaj. The place is beautiful, near the ocean. Go to 'Ban Ganga', ask for the Smashan (cremation ground), and have a nice meditation there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banganga_Tank Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the foundation for questioning
Maharishi's commentary says: This acceptance of the teacher is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through the teacher. Instead of the teacher, read life. This acceptance of life is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through life. And we have the work of Byron Katie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
Patrick, thanks for this, couldn't agree more. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maharishi's commentary says: This acceptance of the teacher is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through the teacher. Instead of the teacher, read life. This acceptance of life is actually a surrender to the unbounded Truth; it invites the unbounded to shine forth through life. And we have the work of Byron Katie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] In Unity Consciousness the Boundaries Are Porous
What happens in the state of Enlightenment is that one stops being things. http://www.mapi.com/answers/120_Unity_Porous.mp3 (10 mins) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
on 3/11/06 7:37 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These were two separate quotes (the one about the exhaust from a bus). The (other) quote was fairly close to the way I stated it below. Rick, please chime in with details. We were sitting in a room with Maharishi in Livingston Manor when he came for an unannounced visit, not very many, maybe 100+ give or take. He was really po'd about a lot of stuff. They had let many repairs go at LM because no one wanted to take responsibility for having wells dug/repaired, etc. I guess because of the money. Lots of little things like that this kept coming up. Somebody-Rick claims him-so he will remember more accurately what precipitated Maharishi's respone. He launched into the fact that getting enlightnened was a process and as near as I can remember he said: Every day is life. We don't postpone the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...It doesn't just happen all at once, it's a process...what makes you think that if you don't enjoy the process you will enjoy being in Unity Consciousness... He spoke some more. Rick can add his recollection. I have 300+ unread posts in my FFL box, so I just happened to spot this one by chance. My recollection was that he said that at a Governors' conference in S. Fallsburg, and that I was at the podium at the time, trying to be a big shot and attract his attention. I was straining a lot in my life and quite out of balance, which may have evoked his comment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Saltzman Art Exhibition
Saw Saltzman's art exhibition in Fort Collins yesterday in which photographs of his were shown of the Rishikesh course with the beatles, Mia Farrow, Carl Wilson, Walter Koch, etc. He's touring the US with this exhibition, selling the photos and a book with the photos in it. Mark To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Unity Consciousness the Boundaries Are Porous
Thank you, Bob. ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happens in the state of Enlightenment is that one stops being things. http://www.mapi.com/answers/120_Unity_Porous.mp3 (10 mins) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
When was that conference, Rick? I know there was a two-week conference with about 120 governors in September 1977, at which time I was on block three of my citizen sidhis course. Was MMY calling from Europe at the time? I don't recall ever hearing of him being in South Fallsburg. --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/11/06 7:37 PM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These were two separate quotes (the one about the exhaust from a bus). The (other) quote was fairly close to the way I stated it below. Rick, please chime in with details. We were sitting in a room with Maharishi in Livingston Manor when he came for an unannounced visit, not very many, maybe 100+ give or take. He was really po'd about a lot of stuff. They had let many repairs go at LM because no one wanted to take responsibility for having wells dug/repaired, etc. I guess because of the money. Lots of little things like that this kept coming up. Somebody-Rick claims him-so he will remember more accurately what precipitated Maharishi's respone. He launched into the fact that getting enlightnened was a process and as near as I can remember he said: Every day is life. We don't postpone the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...It doesn't just happen all at once, it's a process...what makes you think that if you don't enjoy the process you will enjoy being in Unity Consciousness... He spoke some more. Rick can add his recollection. I have 300+ unread posts in my FFL box, so I just happened to spot this one by chance. My recollection was that he said that at a Governors' conference in S. Fallsburg, and that I was at the podium at the time, trying to be a big shot and attract his attention. I was straining a lot in my life and quite out of balance, which may have evoked his comment. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Fatigue of the Non-Self
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Every day is life. We don't postpone the present based on the hopes of a more glorious future...It doesn't just happen all at once, it's a process...what makes you think that if you don't enjoy the process you will enjoy being in Unity Consciousness... [snip] What a fabulous quote. Thanks for publishing it! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. So how much would YOU consider to be a reasonable assessment of the coast of eliminating poverty in the world (defined by having a lifestyle that provides enough comfort to allow at least SOME time to devote to self-actualizing activities, including TM, and playing guitar/etc)? Jeffrey Sachs says it is about 150 billion a year for the next 10- 15 years. To bring everyone's income in the world up tot he equivalent of lower middle class?? No, to eradicate poverty. I don't think Sachs includes time to play one's guitar. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] sama-dhi?
MDG often mentions sama-dhi meaning something like 'even intellect'. Has anybody else heard that translation? Is it Maharishi's? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi: Where we want to take our people.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] I love everything he says here. But why, then, does he come up with silly poverty programs like the $10 trillion organic food growing scheme? Am I missing something? IT's not allthat silly, unless you thinkthat the $10 trillion has to be obtained overnight. $10 trillion is apparently the estimated cost to implement the program globally in such a way as to eliminate the problem of poverty. That's all. Spare Egg, $10 trillion is the silliest thing in the world. Do you have any idea how much that is? It's as silly as the guy in my high school that ran for Student Council president who promised, if elected, that there will be beer dispensed in every water fountain in the school. It doesn't matter ifthe figure is an unrealistic goal. in fact, it sounds like a reasonable assessment of the cost of accomplishing the stated goal. No, it doesn't. You need to shore up on both your math skills and GDP figures. So how much would YOU consider to be a reasonable assessment of the coast of eliminating poverty in the world (defined by having a lifestyle that provides enough comfort to allow at least SOME time to devote to self-actualizing activities, including TM, and playing guitar/etc)? Jeffrey Sachs says it is about 150 billion a year for the next 10- 15 years. To bring everyone's income in the world up tot he equivalent of lower middle class?? No, to eradicate poverty. I don't think Sachs includes time to play one's guitar. Maharishi's definitionof poverty is slightly different I think. ONe can manage to get enough to eat and not have any time/energy/inclination to progress in life. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Sama-dhi
--- In , cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MDG often mentions sama-dhi meaning something like 'even intellect'. Has anybody else heard that translation? Is it Maharishi's? I've heard Maharishi use that translation on at least a couple of occasions (live and on tape). He would say: Sama = evenness (as in sama-veda) Dhi = intellect Samadhi = that state of intellect that is finally settled, resolute intellect, established in its ground state, freed from the normal pairs of opposites... If I ever run across my notes from those talks that remind me of more details, I'll share those with you. Namaste, Michael PARA - THE CENTER FOR REALIZATION Michael Dean Goodman Ph.D., D.D., Director Boca Raton (Palm Beach County) Florida 561-350-3930 (24 hours) * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Counseling * Private Educational Sessions * Spiritual Guidance * Satsang Classes * Workshops Retreats * Group Presentations * Articles Essays Clients and programs throughout the United States, Europe, and India Working in person or by phone Free initial consultation to discuss your needs and goals Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Self-doubt and cynicism vs. profound trust - the role of surrender as the fo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, defenders_of_bhakti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: His definition of the first (good) type of question seems to be that they have to be based on total and complete surrender and submission to the teacher. Sorry to correct you Barry: but he nowhere says so. He rather speaks of questions *curiosity* even in a 'mundane conversation' This does not imply complete surrender and submission as you falsly say. Not to argue, but you seem to have missed this section: Maharishi's commentary says: By 'homage' is meant submission or surrender. The commentary says that surrender to the teacher (ultimately to the Truth that the teacher is a reflector of), is the prerequisite for asking questions (repeated inquiry, or curiosity). As a funny aside, it strikes me that a curious seeker, perusing Google to find out more about MDG (I'd never heard of him until these recent long rants to FFL), might wonder whether his fascination with submission and surrender was somehow related to one of his public appearances that is still listed on Google: http://www.commandperformance.net/calendar/Sept%2004/25.htm :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
