[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
After seeing the film David Wants to Fly, the interview with Mark is not flattering of Maharishi...to say the least... turquoiseb: Why should it be? Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Why should it be? Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt curtisdeltablues: Great minds discuss whatever interests them... Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. LoL! Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -- Eleanor Roosevelt Subject: Small Minds (was Re: Tiger!) Author: TurquoiseB Date: December 1, 2009 4:56 am Groups: Yahoo! FairfieldLife http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/235684 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/235684
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
Bhairitu: I predict that American will be burned to the ground if it passes... The president is praising their plan! Something tells me you don't know what you are talking about. You don't even make any sense! Invest in torches, pitchforks, rope, tar and feathers. All your economic and political solutions seem to favor violence. So, you're opposed to reducing the federal deficit; opposed to capping domestic spending; opposed to rearranging some entitlement programs; and opposed to stabilizing the nation's publicly held debt. And, you're opposed to a budget compromise? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
SS is and always has been pay as you go and so, insomuch as it is not paid for by normal tax dollars, it shouldn't be included in the normal budget figures. It is irrelevant to the discussion. Bhairitu: Senator Bernie Sanders says SS is funded until 2043 and there is no crisis... For young, single workers all Social Security promises (a promise it can't even afford to keep) is about a 1.5 percent real rate of return. What it can afford to pay is more like half a percent, which is more like passbook interest than a real investment return. Polls consistently show that strong majorities of younger workers don't expect to ever collect any Social Security benefits... http://tinyurl.com/3vlv85m
[FairfieldLife] Re: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism
do.rflex: Quote of the Day - on Conservatism... Conservatives are happier than liberals because conservatives have a greater acceptance of income inequalities. Being poor, you fail to understand this, so you're unhappy. You could go out and get a job and make some money if you wanted to.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
Bhairitu: You would need a region free player for that. Got this nice little unit about six months ago and I liked it so much that I bought one for my daughter out in Santa rosa. Pioneer DV-220V-K 1080p Region Free DVD Player w/HDMI USB Amazon $68 http://tinyurl.com/3m5f444 Probably best to wait for the region 1 version and it'll be $20 at Frys. ;-) Maybe so, but I wouldn't give you .10 cents for a copy. The last time I bought anything that was recommended by Joe cost me $38 for a crummy paperback with lousy pictures in it. I threw it the trash heap! Why are you TMO types always trying to sell us something, or trying to make a dime off of the dead MMY? It's just outrageous!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Video: David Wants to Fly director interview
do.rflex: Amazon USA has 2 copies available... Why don't you buy one of the German discs and tell us what it's all about, John? LoL!!! 'David Wants to Fly' David Sieveking and Judith Bourque Amazon $35.99 http://tinyurl.com/44swgfm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
danfriedman: In reply to your first paragraph: You are not seconding the motion, but rather introducing your own motion, as your charactarization of my suggestion as outing of people against their will is incorrect... You do know that Rick and Curtis and a few others were leaders in the TM cult movement - I don't know the exact hierarchy these folks claim, but at one time it was apparently very influential, to hear them talk about it. You need to be aware of the fact that for the most part, we are dealing with TM Teachers on this forum, Dan, and it is by their training to be very secretive about all their activities that are TM-related. One of the moderators' brother is a TM Raja, but he won't talk much about it or answer any questions about what happened to all the money. Can you believe that? There are only a few rank-and-file TMers on this list. But, apparently there are over a dozen or more simple lurkers. Go figure. In fact, you could characterize this forum as a site for TMO informants, who are supposed to be doing the informing, with news about the comings-and-goings of MMY, but he's dead, so in reality, most of the dialog is just mostly speculation about what's going on with the TM Movement, or what houses are for sale up in Vedic City. It's been my experience that only insiders know what's going on in the TMO - and none are respondents on this forum. You're not going to get very much discussion about the 'mechanics of consciousness' here, Dan, except for maybe Lawson or Judy. Your other 4 paragraphs devolve further. I interpret them to be support for your critisism of my suggestion, which you mischaracterized anyway (see above). I just want to second the motion for more restrictions on posters here and more outing of people against their will. Our need to know who is posting is much more important than their privacy. Also I would like to see a lot less of posters using passive construction in their writing. We need MORE action verbs, not less. Any chance you can include that demand in your new rules? And (last thing) how about a total ban on anyone referring to Guru Dev as that homeless guy who hit the lottery. It is offensive to dwelling impaired Americans. Oh yeah (seriously, last thing) and I'm getting a little sick of the phrase UFO when we know damn well who these aliens are and where they are from. (I'm talking to you El Salvador) Oops (I promise last last last) If you wouldn't mind, I would like to see a shot of female posters in a wet T-shirt. Not to be sexist but in the spirit of the fullest possible dis-clothes-her.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
Bill Coop: The real prize would be the deerskin. I think I heard that it was inherited from Guru Dev... Maybe so, especially considering that the skin was probably used as a 'bed' for MMY and Judith. From what I've read, MMY never went anywhere without the skin and someone to carry it for him. So, I would assume that MMY had Judith carry the skin up to patio on the roof of his house that night. I could be mistaken about this. Maybe they did it on the bare concrete floor. Apparently MMY didn't own a real bed or mattress in India. As for the GD skin, I've been told that the GD skin, as well as GD's sandals, are kept on the altar at the ashram owned by GD down in Allahabad. There have been some problems in the past with ritual items being stolen from the Jyotirmath by that other Swami, Svarupanand, so I guess security is not that great in the Upper Kashi. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rupert Murdoch gets pied
Robert: Just the mere fact that Murdoch and Co. had to defend themselves at 10 Downing St. is symbolic to me that the 'Light of Consciousness' is beginning to shine a bit brighter on the darknesses of this Media giant... Correct me if I'm wrong, but has the 'Murdoch and Co.' and/or Rebekkah Brooks, ever been to 10 Downing Street?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rupert Murdoch gets pied
I wonder if Obama, MediaMatters, Jon Stewart, indeed the rest of the media at large, will accept personal responsibility for creating a 'culture of hate' that led to this attack the way they demanded Palin do after the Giffords incident? Bhairitu: Apples and oranges. So, the 'culture of hate' is different when the liberal media does it? In this climate of disproportionate wealth the rich should be made to feel as uncomfortable as possible. Don't you just hate those 'rich' people? And a more aggressive populace would make sure they are relieved of their burden. Where do you think you think you're going to get a more aggressive populace that will vote for communism? You refuse to even take part in a Tea Party Rally to support reducing the size of government! Go figure. http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/124634/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
But why insist on higher taxes in the middle of weakest economic recovery in the post-World War II era? Denise Evans: Because it isn't the American people don't want higher taxesthe question is do the american people want a proportionately fair tax system on the money made from the corporations and wealth aristocrats (that is not coming back to us via the trickle down theory or will it ever) on the backs of us working class. This is another Republican myth that they are spreading to instill fear. You sound really scared. So, how much would reforming the corporate tax code bring down the federal deficit of $13 trillion? This idea is not in Obama's recent federal budget. Why not? http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
whynotnow: No, it came from a deer I am pretty sure. Probably from Corbett Park. http://www.corbettpark.com/ From what I've read, Guru Dev did not sit on a 'deerskin'; he meditated on an antelope skin. The skin, which was given to Guru Dev by his guru Swami Krishnanada Saraswati, which the great Guru Dev meditated on, was inherited by his successor, in direct desciplic succession. Not only the skin, but the gold gilt high chair and the Raja Umbrella, the sandals, the japa beads, the water pot and the staff of Guru Dev. Also, the Jyotirmath Ashram, the buildings and all the Ashram property, both at Jypotirmath and at the Shankar Math at Allahabad, were inherited by Guru Dev's successor. Guru Dev's successor was H.H. Swami Shantanand Saraswati, as reported in the Indian Press. All the above listed items are now in the possession of Swami Vasudevananda Saraswati, the current representative of the line of Brahmanada Saraswati. Read more: Subject: The Shankaracharyas Today Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: July 1, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/3ugc62k Sources: 'The Times of India' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ The Whole Thing, the Real Thing The Official Biography of Guru Dev A Tradition of Teachers: Shankara and the Jagadgurus Today By William Cenkner, Ph.D. The real prize would be the deerskin. I think I heard that it was inherited from Guru Dev.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
What a doofus. I'll give him ten bucks for the sandals, free shipping. Sal Sunshine: ...I still stand by what I said originally, that he'd be lucky to get $1000 or anything close. Maybe so, but how much could you get for a pair of your own worn-out sandals, a few cents? LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)
The TM mantras appear repeatedly in numerous different tantras... cardemaister: Gotta admit that might be true, actually! Think 'twas prolly Mahaa-nirvaaNa-tantra or somesuch that has my mantra... White 'Tara' in Vajrayana Buddhism is 'Sarasvati' in Hindu Sri Vidya. According to Blofield, White Tara counteracts illness and thereby helps to bring about a long life. The Tara sadhana was revealed to the Nath Siddha Tilopa in 995 C.E., who is the human father of the Karma Kagyu sect of Tibet. Read more: 'The Tantric Mysticism of Tibet' A Practical Guide to the Theory, Purpose, and Techniques of Tantric Meditation by John Blofeld Penguin, 1992 'The Cult of Tara' Magic and Ritual in Tibet by Stephen Beyer University of California Press 1992
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rupert Murdoch gets pied
Joe: Living in that Texas cematary seems to have made Willy a bit 'tarded! So, you're prejudiced against Texans - I always thought so. But, I didn't 'equate' anything - I just posted the quote. Speaking of a culture of hate, don't you just hate that 'Willy' from Texas? Hey, Joe - you can call me 'Willy' if it makes you feel superior, and it helps demonize me - I don't mind, but do you have to be hypocritical as well? Go figure. I wonder if Obama, MediaMatters, Jon Stewart, indeed the rest of the media at large, will accept personal responsibility for creating a 'culture of hate' that led to this attack the way they demanded Palin do after the Giffords incident? http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/124634/ Apples and oranges. In this climate of disproportionate wealth the rich should be made to feel as uncomfortable as possible. And a more aggressive populace would make sure they are relieved of their burden.
[FairfieldLife] Re: FDR Warning about Today's Republicans
do.rflex: FDR tells the truth about the leaders of the modern Republican party. Don't you just hate that Republican Party, the party of Abraham Lincoln! The question is, can he run on his record in 2012, and the answer is no, because it's abysmal. He took a trillion dollars and where it went, nobody knows. He dismantled healthcare, he weakened America around the world, he sold out the State of Israel. All he's got to run on is being a Democrat and indicting the other fellow... http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/06/14/mamet-on-obama/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
Denise Evans: This table says how the money is being allocated - way too much on war of course. You sound like a reasonable person, Denise. Do you see any trends in this chart:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
johnlasher: The eugenics program is alive and well and just like Hitler they want to eliminate the non producers from society. Adolph Hitler was a National Socialist, but most of the early advocates of eugenics were liberal Democrats. You do realize that most early advocates of eugenics also were in support of family planning, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics It is the welfare state that is in crisis and the Left is divided on the question of how to fix it. Anarchists, who are the cannon fodder of the extreme left, are sending the message that the Old Leftist politics has failed and the time has come to double down... Read more: 'The Crusade of Innocents' http://tinyurl.com/2d7b8fn
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
This table says how the money is being allocated - way too much on war of course. You sound like a reasonable person, Denise. Do you see any trends in this chart: do.rflex: NOTE: It's a fake chart put out by fringe right wing blogs and it's not supported by legitimate objective facts So, if Obama brought ALL the troops home tomorrow, and reduced defense spending to zero, how much would he be able to reduce the $13 trillion federal deficit? And, why isn't this proposal included in Obama's recent federal budget? http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
[FairfieldLife] Re: We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty
turquoiseb: I've had a few such breakthrough moments. One of the first was a few years after I'd started studying with Rama. Following his advice to double my salary in a month, I'd landed myself a gig... As a recruit is eased out of a pre-Lenz life and into the cult, computer programming is stressed as the only realistic career. Computer careers are desirable, Lenz and his surrogates tell new students, because working with a computer sharpens and focuses your mind. It also isolates you from others, which is desirable to avoid people's negative spiritual energy. Lenz never commands them to become programmers, but he suggests that it is the only fast track to enlightenment. In practice, all members who stay in the group more than a few months - including physicians, engineers, and other professionals - go into programming... Wired Magazine: http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/wired
[FairfieldLife] Re: We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty
turquoiseb: I've had many such irrational breakthrough moments in the years... This guy is either nuts or one of the biggest cult fibbers of the modern age - put both together, Rama and Uncle 'Tantra', and you've got a real set of 'True Believers' (TB)! Go figure. This sounds like a pretty normal event, and it is, but you have to consider that standing next to me was the gentleman I had seen a few hours ago in the desert disappearing and walking several inches above the ground and making the stars move around... Road Trip Mind: http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rules And The Breaking Thereof: Tantra vs. Sutra
turquoiseb: Maharishi's path -- as I see it...YMMV -- was largely a path based on sutra. You are incorrect - MMY's technique is purely tantric; there are no 'sutras' involved in basic TM. It is very similar to the tantric practices of the Sri Vidya sect, in which there is a meditation utilizing thought-tools such as bija mantras and yantras. There was a Big Book Of Rules (several, actually), and liberation was to be found in following them... The so-called Orange Book' was not a 'sutra', but the Rig Veda, Mandala IX, from the Harvard 'Sacred Books of the East Series', in which the benefits of 'Soma' is extolled. Apparently Turq never received this book. Go figure. If one followed the rules contained in the Rig Veda, they would probably be dead by now, since obviously the correct recipe for Soma was lost before the Rig Veda was even composed in Persia. A true-blue, diehard, dedicated TMer would always be having a mimeographed copy of the Rik Veda, Mandala IX, on his or her nightstand... Read more: Subject: The TMers Handbook Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: June 8, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/3b7b2da
[FairfieldLife] Re: We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty
What is a good example of a on-the-program TMer? : ) Vaj: http://www.rwilliams.us/inside/ That's not me in the chair! But, am I the only FFL informant that has a valid dome badge? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
danfriedman: Can FairfieldLife adopt a Policy restricting non-member posting? This issue has come up before, and has led to many misunderstandings. Apparently posting to FFL is available only to members. Non-members can read, but not post.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi's Sandals
danfriedman: What's happening is that FFL Members continue to post on behalf, or in spite of, non-Members. This has led to a number of misunderstandings, discontinuities, and worst, defamation posted behind this screen of provided anonymity. So, you're thinking that some members are posting messages on behalf of non-members, because some non-members don't want to become members, because they want to post defamation, so they get members to post it? Why can't the non-members just become members and post their own defamatory messages? This is just outrageous!!! Can FairfieldLife adopt a Policy restricting non-member posting? This issue has come up before, and has led to many misunderstandings. Apparently posting to FFL is available only to members. Non-members can read, but not post.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped (and The Last Mountain)
In the context of our continued political system, it is easy to blame Obama while we whine and cry and call foul - where is the loyalty authfriend: Are you even *aware* that there are many who think cutting spending to reduce the deficit is the very *last* thing we should be doing while the economy is still in such bad shape? But why insist on higher taxes in the middle of weakest economic recovery in the post-World War II era? http://tinyurl.com/3ba2snc
[FairfieldLife] Re: Rupert Murdoch gets pied
Bhairitu: Or do they so fear the old grinch they're afraid to post it... I wonder if Obama, MediaMatters, Jon Stewart, indeed the rest of the media at large, will accept personal responsibility for creating a 'culture of hate' that led to this attack the way they demanded Palin do after the Giffords incident? http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/124634/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Economic Collapse -- why it won't be stopped
Bhairitu: The establishment will just not relinquish control so that humanity can move forward. They'd rather go down like a sinking ship. Obama ...prefers the inequality that comes from a government hierarchy, over inequality that comes from voluntary trade. http://tinyurl.com/3wtvvpz
[FairfieldLife] Re: Happy Bastille Day You F'ing Rich!
Bhairitu: I see a guillotine in your future! You're not even a bystander at a Tea Party Rally, much less the leader of a revolution. You probably don't even have weapon in yer house. You'd be one of the last people I'd want to rely on to bring down big government. Liberals like to talk a lot, but when it comes to taking action - when was the last time you heard from the 'anti-war' movement? According to what I've read, communism feels the need to control someone, because they have legally built up wealth, or want to, through their own endeavours (and want to keep it). That wealth makes that person deserving of being plundered? You're not even making any sense! Workers of the world unite! is OK, but for what? The unspoken goal is to plunder those who have. It is not a call for brotherly love. It is a mobilisation call for a lynch mob.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
johnlasher: Hissy plus plus still having it... Maybe getting out and voting would be a better idea, instead of posting satire on a newsgroup forum, and trying to pick a fight with Judy. If you're new to this group, that wouldn't be a good way to introduce yourself! Plus, you could write your own satires like Turq does - you're not the only informant that reads the newspapers. I think what you are saying is that you had a full blown hissy fit.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled
Bhairitu: To get the US out of debt we should tax stock sales on Wall Street. It could be a very small tax and again nothing that anyone would notice much... So, how much would taxing 'Wall Street' go toward either balancing the federal budget or eliminating the $14 trillion deficit? Didn't Obama already approve a national budget a few months ago? Obama's Budget for Fiscal Year 2012: http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled
Bhairitu: Those are the ones to get out on the street... Maybe they could join a 'Tea Party Rally' to show they are against runaway federal spending and payroll taxation. Or, were you thinking you would start a new 'rally protest' to promote MORE taxation and MORE spending? You're not making much sense. Is that your best plan for balancing the federal budget? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count
So, which one is the one from Missouri? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/282854 Vaj: Empty Willy. Which one, the one from Texas, or the one from Missouri?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Nice crib, dude
turquoiseb: Today I stumbled upon a realtor listing of one of the houses dwelt in by Rama - Frederick Lenz. As it turns out, now having GoogleMapped the address, I realize that at the time I lived in a guest house on a private lake a couple of miles away, but never got to see this particular house. Wish I'd been able to. That would have been a cool place to sit on a terrace and rap... So, you gave Rama over $10,000 for seminars and books over ten years, and you moved all the way to New York to be near him, but he never invited you up to his house for a rap? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled
Those are the ones to get out on the street... Maybe they could join a 'Tea Party Rally' to show they are against runaway federal spending and payroll taxation. Or, were you thinking you would start a new 'rally protest' to promote MORE taxation and MORE spending? You're not making much sense. Is that your best plan for balancing the federal budget? Go figure. Bhairitu: Stop the costly wars of empire. That would help a lot to balance the budget. Has the U.S. declared war against anyone? Why didn't you mention that? Because the defense budget is only a fraction of the federal spending budget? How much do you think you could reduce the federal deficit of $13 trillion by bringing all the troops home?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Not Satire eliminate the old and disabled Judy
Bhairitu: Always notice that the Republicans say raise taxes as if they mean raise taxes on everyone not just people earning $250,000 or more a year. Well, I'd vote for a flat tax that everyone could pay. I'm against payroll taxation on general principles, but I'd be willing to pay my fair share. Everyone knows that when you increase taxes there is actually less revenue coming in because of the many tax loopholes. Can you give me one good reason that some people should pay more in payroll taxes than others pay? That doesn't sound American to me because we're all supposed to be equal under the U.S. Constitution. You fools are being had. You are the one still living out in California! The income tax in California is 9.5%, plus your federal income tax. Looks like you're being had - there is no state income tax in Texas. The combined federal tax rate on income of $60,000, then, is actually 18.5% in California on earnings over $34,500.00.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jefferson County Excessive Heat Warning
Heat index is 110 here at the moment, and climbing. raunchydog: Too much water can kill you. One to two liters a day depending on your body mass is plenty. Right, too much DHMO can kill you! Several years ago we got a good warning about that stuff being used in the TM puja up in Fairfield - very dangerous according to several informants.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Homes for sale
Sal Sunshine : Take a look at the pictures~~these have got to be two of the ugliest houses in creation. What were the owners thinking~~what were the architects thinking? It's a new style: Neo-Nazi Lite. Obviously you're prejudiced against Indians, but the one reminds me of Thomas Jefferson's Monticello. http://www.monticello.org/ You've got to admit, it would be a step up from living in a trailer down in 'Utopia Park'. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count
Alex Stanley: He erased it right after posting it. But, Vaj quoted all of it in his response here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/282852 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/282852 So, which one is the one from Missouri? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/282854 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/282854
[FairfieldLife] Re: cognitive dissonance
One is from Texas and one from Missouri. Willie Nelson was born in Abbott, Texas. http://mockingwords.blogspot.com/2010/04/willie-nelson-truther.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)
William Parkinson: I tried to trace back my own mantra within the Advaita-shakti tradition and found that it was recorded in Shankara's 'Saundaryalahari.' According to the Shankaracharya of Sringeri, the Adi Shankara placed the Sri Chakra, symbol of Tripurasundari, with the TM mantras inscribed thereon, at each of the seats of learning - Dwarka, Puri, Sringeri, and at Jyotirmath. The mantras of TM are DIRECTLY related to Sri Vidya. It is also a fact that the cult of Sri Vidya was derived from the nath siddhas, tantric alchemists of medieval India, 99% of whom were Vajrayana Buddhists in the line of Nagarjuna! Read more: Sri Vidya: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Notice of Infringement
In fact, Dan, two of the FFL moderators here use anonymous 'handles'. Rick Archer: Not true. There are three moderators. Alex and I use our real names. Gullible Fool is the only one who uses a handle, and he's not very active as a moderator... Apparently one FFL moderator has two handles.
[FairfieldLife] Re: States of Consciousness
Vaj: Not a very honest presentation... According to Wallace, Samatha is calm abiding, a type of meditation designed to enhance sustained voluntary attention; a subset of the broader family of samadhi or meditation practices. Reginald Ray at the Shambhala Mountain Cente says Samatha is single-pointed focus of mind; a limb of Raja Yoga. So, it's just like TM in a way: meditation on objects. The unification leads to a very clear and direct experience of the nature of all things. This brings one very close to what is called the absolute truth. - Dzogchen Pönlop Rinpoche Works cited: 'The Attention Revolution' Unlocking the Power of the Focused Mind by Alan Wallace Wisdom Publications, 2006 page 6 and 131 'In the Presence of Masters' Wisdom from 30 Contemporary Tibetan Buddhist Teachers By Reginald Ray Shambhala Publications, 2004 page 69 and 76
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)
Derealization during pain isn't the same as witnessing during the waking state... Vaj: I was referring to witnessing during sleep. In TM, 'witnessing' in waking state refers to the ability of yogis to 'witness' the Being - the Transcendental Absolute. yoga citta vritti nirodha. Yoga Sutra I.1.2 Yoga is the cessation of the mental turnings of the mind. When thought ceases, the Transcendental Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the world. - Swami Venkatesananda http://www.swamivenkatesananda.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sleep and TM (are youstill there RC?)
William Parkinson: This is all new to me... The Sri Vidya, because it consists of 'indestructible seed' syllables (bijas) rather than words, transcends such mundane considerations as semantic meaning. Accordingly, a bija-only mantra is not merely esoteric but inherently superior. Because it is purely seed-syllables [bijasaras] is the purest form of mantra. It does not make a request or praise god, it is God's purest expression. Gayatri is great but it cannot match srividya because it is still in language; it is Veda and mantra but when transformed into the srividya its greatness increases (95). Work cited: Auspicious Wisdon The texts and traditions of Srividya Sakta Tantrism in South India. by Douglas Renfrew Brooks SUNY 1992
[FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
William Parkinson: I found this webpage and it has a different way to pronounce the mantra I was taught... Though disputed by somemost in the Shankaracharya tradition practice samaya sri vidya and accept that he wrote several tantric texts including Saundaryalahari, etc, etc. - James Duffy Read more: Subject: Re: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya From: James Duffy Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: April 28, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/2drn7gp I tried to trace back my own mantra within the Advaita-shakti tradition and found that it was recorded in Shankara's 'Saundaryalahari.' According to the Shankaracharya of Sringeri, the Adi Shankara placed the Sri Chakra, symbol of Tripurasundari, with the TM mantras inscribed thereon, at each of the seats of learning - Dwarka, Puri, Sringeri, and at Jyotirmath. The mantras of TM are DIRECTLY related to Sri Vidya. It is also a fact that the cult of Sri Vidya was derived from the nath siddhas, tantric alchemists of medieval India, 99% of whom were Vajrayana Buddhists in the line of Nagarjuna! Read more: Sri Vidya: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/srividya.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
emptybill: All modern Western scholars of Shankara or Advaita firmly reject the claim that Adi-Shankara was the author of either Ananda-Larari or Saundarya-Lahari. Maybe so, but as TMers we are not concerned with what most Western scholars think about Shankara. It is a fact that all the Dasanami Sannyasins worship the Sri Vidya and accept the Adi Shankara as the author of the Saundarylahri. That's why at all the Ammnya Mathas founded by Shankara you will find the Sri Chakra ensconced on the mandir. Our Guru Dev was a Sri Vidya adherent and his master, Swami Krishnaanada was a Sri Vidya practitioner. So, we TMers have a direct connection to the Sringeri Matha, through Brahmananda Saraswati. Bija 'mantras', by definition, have no semantic meaning - that's why they're called 'mantras' instead of being called 'words'. If the bijas were Sanskrit words, there would be no need for a definition of them, since their meaning would be obvious to anyone who could read a Sanskrit lexicon. So, let's review: In basic TM you get the single seed sound (bija) and later the fertilizer; and you get the simple set of instructions for the correct angle to dive. So, it has now been established that at least two of the most sacred bija-mantras, out of the fifteen, contained in the Saundaryalahari, are in fact, TM bija-mantras. Read more: Subject: Guru Dev and Mantrayana Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: December 17, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/ykp6rhs On the origin of the TM bija mantras: Bija mantras issued by TM are ''Sri Vidya'' bija mantras. To be fair, I won't go into what they are, but if one listens to all TM mantras, except for 2, they are 2 or 3 syllable, and this is a very important component of the technique... Subject: Re: Guru Dev and Sri Vidya Author: Billy Smith Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: April 22, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/ye8my2 You are getting warmer when it comes to understanding TM's origins with your posts regarding the Shankaracharya tradition and its practice of Srividya... Subject: Re: TM: Siva Sutra Author: James Duffy Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.yoga, alt.meditation Date: September 21, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/yjwa2yr
[FairfieldLife] Re: How to pronounce the mantras
William Parkinson: Shiva is the static consciousness that pervades all things, while shakti represents (envisioned in feminine form) the dynamic form of consciousness... The answer lies in the relationship of the Sri Vidya tradition and Kashmere Saivism. In the Shankaracharya tradition, Shankara was born at Kaladi, where he was a sort of child prodigy linguist, at an early age. Shankara went to study with Gaudapada, and then subsequently travelled to Kashi, and then to the Upper Kashi, where he founded the Jyotir Math and composed his commentary on 'Vedanta Sutra' and 'Bhagavad Gita'. Shankara then traveled to Kashmere where he got the Sri Yantra and took it to Karnataka where he placed it on the altar and called the place Sringeri, after the Shakti. It was at Sringeri that Shankara composed the 'Ode to the South Facing Form' and the 'Saundarylahari'. According to Theos Bernard, Kashmere Saivism teaches that conciousness alternates between two phases, rest and action. You can easily see the relation to TM practice when you consider that this is almost exactly what MMY said at Squaw Valley! The phase of transcendental rest is called 'Pralaya' in Sanskrit, which has no first beginning, therefore no primal cause. The world of matter is only another form of conciousness. The Vedanta doctrine contends that there is only one ultimate reality which never changes; therefore the manifest world is an 'appearance' only, Maya. Kashmere Saivism contends that there is only one reality, but it has *two aspects*. The manifestation, Maya, is real. This is based on the argument that the effect cannot be different from its cause. However, according to the Siva Sutra, human logic can never construct an unassailable monism; the final proof can be had only by the experience of yogic samadhi, attained through mantric meditation. Centering - An excerpt from the 'Bhairava Tantra', translated by Swami by Laksmanjoo: 7. Devi, imagine the Sanskrit letters in these honey-filled foci of awareness, first as letters, then more subtly as sounds, then as most subtle feeling. Then, leaving them aside, be free. 14. Bathe in the center of sound, as in the continuous sound of a waterfall. Or, by putting fingers in ears, hear the sound of sounds. 19. Intone a sound audibly, then less and less audible as feeling deepens into this silent harmony. Read more: http://www.rwilliams.us/archives/centering.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Notice of Infringement
danfriedman: Thanks for the background... In fact, Dan, two of the FFL moderators here use anonymous 'handles'. Both of them have been very antagonistic to some of my postings. Apparently these two moderators hate TMers from Texas. Go figure. But, I will say that even the most hateful informant here can't hold a candle to some of the hateful messages posted on Usenet in years past. However, three of the most hateful respondents from Usenet are still on FFL, but they are much toned down now, most of the time. We got rid of the most obnoxious poster here some time ago - the one that is too embarrassed to post here anymore because his guru is on wanted posters all over the planet. Before the guru, Prakashanand Saraswati, vanished in Marchbefore a jury convicted him of sexual abuse; before he slipped across the border into Mexico overnighthe led the premier Hindu temple in Texas and, perhaps, the whole United States... 'The Fugitive Guru' http://tinyurl.com/5v4mgcf Your promise to stop mentioning me in your posts means nothing to you. I continue to find your posts offensive and intentionally provacative... There are at least three informants here that you need to watch, Dan - one gave out my real name (a year after I posted it on Usenet). LoL! Another one actually went on the WWW to my place of employ and gave out the address and made fun of a photo of me (without posting a photo of himself). LoL! There are a few dangerous characters that lurk here. Doesn't matter to me anymore since I'm retired now and fully vested. All my writing stuff is public now for anyone to see. In my opinion, anyone posting here anonymously is pretty much a troll and not being really totally honest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Notice of Infringement
feste37: You tend to do this when any new person appears here. Are you aware of this rather unpleasant behavior on your part? As some have noticed, I have a low tolerance threshold when it comes to idiots who show up on Internet forums I frequent and bring a hidden agenda with them. I suspect everybody does, but it is more obvious in my case because I am often merciless about insulting these idiots and ripping them a new asshole verbally. Here's why. It saves time. So my theory is that I just lay into them hard -- insult them, make fun of them, do everything I possibly can to push their buttons. And what happens? Because they have an agenda, they always react angrily, and in that anger stop trying to *hide* their agenda. They start saying things and revealing things that otherwise might have taken weeks for everybody to figure out. It's a neat technique. I highly recommend it. It saves time... Subject: Agendananda Author: Uncle Tantra Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: February 16, 2003
[FairfieldLife] Re: Notice of Infringement
Could it be one of the two Buddhists here ? :-) Rick Archer: Does it have anything to do with their being Buddhists? What if you were to ask, Could it be one of the Jews here? Could it be one of the 'TMers' here, or maybe a guy from Texas? Does it have anything to do with anything, Rick? From what I've read here, almost everyone is prejudiced to a certain degree, even if they are 'Buddhists' or not, you included.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Notice of Infringement
danfriedman: Your promise to stop mentioning me in your posts means nothing to you. I continue to find your posts offensive and intentionally provacative... There are at least three informants here that you need to watch, Dan - one gave out my real name (a year after I posted it on Usenet). LoL! Another one actually went on the WWW to my place of employ and gave out the address and made fun of a photo of me (without posting a photo of himself). LoL! There are a few dangerous characters that lurk here. Doesn't matter to me anymore since I'm retired now and fully vested. All my writing stuff is public now for anyone to see. In my opinion, anyone posting here anonymously is pretty much a troll and not being really totally honest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Afflictive Emotions, part 2
Vaj: Sounds to me like Judy is LYING again... Maybe you should provide a link to the lies, if any, that you think Judy posted so we can sort this all out. I know someone is lying, but I don't think it's Judy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
emptybill: I have practiced Trungpa's style of shamataa and was not impressed when compared to TM dhyana... So, we are agreed. The Sakyong Mipham uses bija mantras in the Shambhala training. Maybe when you were there, the Trungpa thought you were to advanced already - I don't know, maybe he didn't know any bija mantras. Go figure - bijas are enumerated in the Hridaya Sutra! But, it is an amazing meditation training, just not as effecient as TM training. This Shambhalal training is the training cited by Vaj and Wallaca, when they cite the Shamatha Project. Shambhala is headquartered in Halifax, Nova Scotia and Boulder, Co. and at the Shambhala Mountain Center, and in Tibet at Surmang. The Sakyong, and almost all Surmang Tibetan teachers use bija mantras in their meditation. And why? Because the meditation using bija mantras is simple, easy, and produces an abiding calm, a restful alertness, and provides the ideal opportunity for transcending to the unified field of enlightened living, and to Nirvana. TM is Buddhist tantric yoga meditation! It's just what intelligent people do. The lineage of Sakyongs is protected and supported by the Sakyong Ladrang. The prosperity of the Sakyong Ladrang is essential to ensuring the continuity and transmission of the Shambhala teachings on basic goodness, the fundamental ground of enlightened society. Sakyong Mipham: http://www.mipham.com/ Calmness is not the same as state of least excitation... It's Tibetan, Bill, from the Tantras, not from the Pali Sutras. Some students get mixed up and confuse the 'vipassana-shamatha' practices of the Theravada with the 'siddha-yoga' practices of the Vajrayana. Vajrayana yoga practices, such as the Shambhala training established by Trungpa, cited by Alan Wallace, is just like 'TM' practice, only not as effecient! Trungpa's 'calm abiding' is the 'restful alertness', described by MMY. Trungpa called it meditation in action. It's a seated, eyes wide-shut, meditation technique, using bijas, mandala's, and other objects. Sakyong Mipham on Meditation in Action: http://youtu.be/GVJQ4qU4Bok Work cited: 'Meditation in Action' by Chogyam Trungpa Shambhala, 1970
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
emptybill: Calmness is not the same as state of least excitation... It's Tibetan, Bill, from the Tantras, not from the Pali Sutras. Some students get mixed up and confuse the 'vipassana-shamatha' practices of the Theravada with the 'siddha-yoga' practices of the Vajrayana. Vajrayana yoga practices, such as the Shambhala training established by Trungpa, cited by Alan Wallace, is just like 'TM' practice, only not as effecient! Trungpa's 'calm abiding' is the 'restful alertness', described by MMY. Trungpa called it meditation in action. It's a seated, eyes wide-shut, meditation technique, using bijas, mandala's, and other objects. Sakyong Mipham on Meditation in Action: http://youtu.be/GVJQ4qU4Bok Work cited: 'Meditation in Action' by Chogyam Trungpa Shambhala, 1970
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
turquoiseb : It's a pretty Jr. High School mentality... If Vaj is junior high school, you're about the level of pre-school. LoL!!! Fer chirssakes, Barry, we already know you're a liar, but do you have be a hypocrite as well? Go figure. Willy, since fucking prairie dogs or whatever you do with your time doesn't seem to fill enough of it lately... Subject: Open Letter To Willytex Author: Uncle Tantra Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: August 6, 2003
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
Besides, shamantha is just another variant on TM, similar to Tibetan Dzogchen... Vaj: It's actually nothing like TM. Within a couple of weeks Shamatha meditators were transcending for many hours at a time. It's just like 'TM': sitting meditation with a mental object with transcending at an early stages of practice. The study involved thirty participants for three months at the Shambahala Mountain Center in Colorado, which is affiliated with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche. I spent two years pracing at their center in Boulder, 1971-1973. Trungpa is the founder of Shambhala. He was the 11th descendent in the line of Trungpa tulkus, important teachers of the Kagyu lineage, one of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism. This sect is renowned for its strong emphasis on basic meditation practice using the Tibetan meditation objects, such as bijas, images, etc. Shambhala Mountain Center: http://www.shambhalamountain.org/lineage Acknowledgements: We thank Dr. Allen Kanner for psychological prescreening of participants, Dr. Shiri Lavy for group stratification, Eileen Bartosch of the Red Feather Lakes Medical Center for collecting blood samples, the Shambhala Mountain Center for program support... Intensive meditation training, immune cell telomerase activity, and psychological mediators: http://tinyurl.com/3f7xywn
[FairfieldLife] Re: Published research from the Shamatha Project
Vaj: here's what's been published so far on the Shamatha Project. None of these papers are double-blind studies. But, all these papers just validate the practice of TM. The fact is, meditation can help reduce stress, one of the major contributors to heart attack, according to Dr. Wallace. Shamatha is just another variant on TM practice, similar to Tibetan Dzogchen. So, any scientific studies would probably tend to support TM research, not invalidate it. I've practice both 'TM' and 'Shamatha', so I can say from experience that they are very similar, and produce similar results for normal health. TM and Shamatha are both object based forms of deep meditation. This is true of Zen practice and most forms of Tibetan Buddhism. The historical Buddha practiced and taught a meditation that was akin to TM practice, which can lead to the the experience of the ground of our consciousness. Wallace details the movements through the meditative stages of samatha practice. Initially, one begins with an object of focus and ultimately ends up with an objectless meditative awareness, which connects one to the ground of all conscious activity... Wallace's Contemplative Science: http://tinyurl.com/6fpvdk3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Published research from the Shamatha Project
Shamatha is just another variant on TM practice, similar to Tibetan Dzogchen... TM bears no similarity to any Dzogchen practice that I am aware of. The key words here are 'samatha' and samadhi; samatha (calm abiding) is a subset of the broader family of samadhi or meditation practices, according to Alan Wallace, (page 6). Buddhist meditation is called object oriented meditation - mental objects such as as bija mantras, breathing, a certain scriptural passage such as the Hridaya Sutra, etc. Buddhist shamatha meditation is cognate with Patanjali's sixth limb: dharana. In Tibetan Buddhism, the samatha instructions are presented in the Kagyu tradition by sGampopa. You should recognize the TM practice if you had studied under a Tibetan master. So, I can only conclude that you have neither training in TM or in Tibetan Buddhism. Go figure. From the Mahamudra point of view, we should not desire meditative equipoise nor have an aversion to discursive thoughts and conflicting emotions but view both of these states with equanimity. Again, the significant point is not whether meditative equipoise is present but whether we are able to maintain awareness of our mental states. If disturbing thoughts do arise, as they certainly will, we should simply recognize these thoughts and emotions as transient phenomena... - Traleg Kyabgon (pages 149-152). Work cited: 'The Attention Revolution' By Alan Wallace Wisdom Publications, 2006, p.6 'Mind at Ease' by Traleg Kyabgon Shambhala, 2004
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-maharishi-years-the-u_b_\ 86412.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/the-maharishi-years-the-u_b\ _86412.html Maharishi had suffered severe abdominal pain and inflammation of the pancreas, along with kidney failure followed by a heart attack. Vaj: So much for TM reducing heart attacks, huh? Looks like Vaj slipped in another fib! Is Vaj thinking that TM prevents drinking poison? There must be hundreds of scientific reports by now that that support the theory that TM helps reduce the frequency of heart attacks. Many of these reports are controlled scientific studies published in peer-reviewed journal. I don't buy Vaj's claim that ALL these studies are fraudulent. http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearchPublications/PublishedReseas\ rch/index.cfm http://www.truthabouttm.org/truth/TMResearchPublications/PublishedResea\ srch/index.cfm As a cardiovascular surgeon, I am familiar with the ability of TM to reduce high blood pressure... This is reflected in the ability of TM to greatly reduce cardiac mortality in people at risk for heart disease. - Mahmet Oz, M.D. Source: 'Transcendence' Healing and Transformation Through Transcendental Meditation By Norman E Rosenthal M.D. Tarcher, 2011
[FairfieldLife] Re: Does Rick Perry's God have something against Texas?
I've never seen such partisan and one sided posting as from this particular poster, it is as if he can only see black and white or is so jaded in his way of thinking that objective thinking is no longer possible. Yes do.rflex is a big idiot - it was probably not wise of you to respond to him because he gets very disoriented, disturbed and disjointed if he has to indulge in any human interactions. Please leave him alone in peace so he can just continue his copy and paste from various liberal websites in a mind-numbing, monotonous and mechanical manner. Watch 'em dance, folks. authfriend: Well, I'll chime in here and back up BillyG and Ravi, because the do.rk can't accuse me of finding his behavior inappropriate on account of my politics; I'm at least as liberal as he is. It's always wrong to be prejudiced against certain groups of people, like Jews, Christians, Texans, and the Mormons. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. So, it looks like to me that there's only one or two informants on FFL willing to stand up for what's right. Subject: Fringe Christian Right endorses Texas Gov Rick Perry for president Author: John Manning Newsgroups: alt.religion.mormon, alt.religion, soc.culture.jewish, alt.atheism, alt.bible.prophecy Date: July 5, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3c4ubh4 Nobody minds the occasional cut-and-paste if it's well chosen and the poster is willing to discuss it. But the indiscriminate dumping that the do.rk has been doing here for months, without any commentary of his own, his only response to disagreement from others being what he perceives to be withering insults like the above, are an abuse of the forum. Well, let's see, Judy, I've been saying this for what, a decade? You supported this character for over seven years on Usenet! And, you've lobbed your share of hate mail at the two or three conservatives on this forum! And it makes liberals look bad just on general principles; people are more likely to resist liberal ideas when they're relentlessly shoved in their faces with no discussion possible. One of his arrogant little tricks is to pick out what he thinks are important fragments of the articles he posts and put them at the top so we'll be sure not to miss them. That's annoying and insulting. We don't need him to instruct us in what's significant about an article. We'll decide for ourselves, thank you very much, if we want to read the article at all. And if we aren't going to read the whole thing, we're not going to accept his choice of callouts as a summary. His snotty comment above is reminiscent of Barry's oft-repeated self-serving trope that the only reason people criticize his behavior is because they don't agreee with his criticisms of TM. That's utter hogwash, but apparently the do.rk thinks it's a stinging rebuke worthy of emulation. And the incessant posting of websites that support his particular viewpoint is simplistic and a poor substitute for his own comments on the matter, like, what's he afraid of?, he might be wrong? At least Judy will engage. Except with that Willytex that lives down in Texas!
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
There must be hundreds of scientific reports by now that that support the theory that TM helps reduce the frequency of heart attacks. Vaj: Actually the latest study was found to have had the data deliberately skewed... Until we know why the paper was delayed, I think I'll go with the 350 already published peer-reviewed scientific reports, Vaj. And, I think I would tend to agree with Dr. OZ and not you or Dr. Pete, since you both tend to be very biased in your reporting. P.S. I'm still waiting for you to post the links to the research studies of meditation brain wave research done up in Boulder at the Vajradhatu. 'Archives Delays Publishing Meditation Study' http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Prevention/27324 http://www.medpagetoday.com/Cardiology/Prevention/27324
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
Vaj: Are you referring to the Shamatha Project? Apparently there's no scientific research on the Shamantha Project that has been published in peer-reviewed journals. Besides, shamantha is just another variant on TM, similar to Tibetan Dzogchen. So, any scientific discoveries would probably tend to support TM research. Wallace details the movements through the meditative stages of samatha practice. Initially, one begins with an object of focus and ultimately ends up with an objectless meditative awareness, which connects one to the ground of all conscious activity... Wallace's Contemplative Science: http://tinyurl.com/6fpvdk3
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Deepak Chopra on Maharishi's Poisoning...'
Actually the latest study was found to have had the data deliberately skewed. authfriend: Actually was found = one medical journalist said he thought it was skewed in a blog post on Forbes.com. We should not misinterpret this unusual delay. It was a nine year study, and it received all the normal reviews at each stage of the process. Apparently the authors of the study welcomed this delay, as it would allow additional analyses and information. The study focused on teaching the TM technique as a stress-reduction approach to a group of 201 African American patients with coronary heart disease (CHD)... 'Meditation Can Reduce Stress and Lower Risk of Heart Disease' Health News, June 28, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3rjwb3z
[FairfieldLife] Re: Meditation and karma?
Not MMY's interpretation of things TM... Vaj: MMY's interpretation was a rogue one... MMY's interpretation is apparently the correct one - someone is telling some very big fibs! It looks like Vaj will have a lot of explaining to do, since Patanjali's definition of Yoga seems to be exactly what MMY called TM, right down to the witnessing! Yoga is the cessation of the mental turnings of the mind. When thought ceases, the Transcendental Absolute stands by itself, refers to Itself, as a witness to the world - Patanjali, Y.S., I.1.2. (Translation by Swami Venkatesananda Saraswati)
[FairfieldLife] Re: What kind of meditation did the Buddha teach?
emptybill: It's a mental midget's attempt to define the real nature of mantra, Mahayana, meditation, transcending, and reality itself... So, where does the tradition of meditation on 'bija' mantras come from? We know that 'mantras' are used in the Vedas, but there are no bija mantras in the Rig Veda or in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras or in the writings of Shankaracharya. So, the tradition of meditating on bija mantras must have come later, perhaps during the Gupta age of Indian tantrism, and the period of the Nath siddhas. Apparently the practice of 'mantrayana' was introduced into Tibet by Shenrab, who came over from the Swat Valley almost 100 years before the arrival of Guru Padmasambhava in Tibet. In a strange 'reverse Tibet' effect, the Mantrayana Buddhism that Shenrab established in Shang Shung came to be called 'Bon', while the same practice established by Guru Rinpoche came to called 'Chos'. Go figure. According to Snellgrove, the siddha Naropa journeyed to Kashmir in order to obtain the bija mantras from Tilopa. So, from the Swat Valley and Kashmir we get the bija mantras via the Nath Siddhas, to the Indian and Buddhist Tantric Tradition, and thus, according to White and Brooks, to the Sri Vidya sect down in Karnataka, of which SBS was an initiate member. So, now it has been established where the 'TM' bija mantras came from, since these same bijas are enumerated in Shankara's Shakti work, the Saundarylahari. Not for nothing do we find the TM bijas inscribed on the Sri Yantra which was placed on the mandir at Sringeri by the Adi Shankaracharya himself. Correct me if I am mistaken about this, Bill. Works cited: 'Indo-Tibetan Buddhism' Indian Buddhists Their Tibetan Successors By David Snellgrove Shambhala, 2003 'The Secret of the Three Cities' An Introduction to Hindu Sakta Tantrism by Douglas Renfrew Brooks University Of Chicago Press, 1998 'The Alchemical Body' Siddha Traditions in Medieval India David Gordon White University Of Chicago Press, 1998 Read more: Subject: Its Not What You Think! Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.yoga, alt.meditation Date: August 26, 2003 http://tinyurl.com/n4xa63
[FairfieldLife] Re: Writing As Spiritual Practice
If, so it's another Turq flip-flop, since Turq recently proclaimed to be a non-believer in a transcendental experience. Go figure. Xenophaneros Anartaxius: All our experience is subjective, even that of the outside objective world about which we construe facts... So, we get knowledge from personal experience, the senses, and through verbal testimony. The facts are what we infer, based on our knowledge, or what seems reasonable to us from observation. We know things to be true by inference; we can infer the facts due to our valid means of knowledge. For example, we know from experience and observations that human excrement always flows downstream. And, we know this from the verbal testimony of others; and we know this by using common sense. These are the facts of our subjective experience. If shit didn't flow downstream, it might fly up into the air! He says certain things. Sometimes he seems to take viewpoints opposite of what he wrote about before... So, I wonder why Turq can't understand this, and why is he inserting into the accepted and valid means of knowledge, a 'transcendental will', when everyone know that Turq no longer believes in transcendence? It just doesn't make any sense, but it does prove that Turq gets really mixed up sometimes. Go figure. It all depends on what you mean by knowledge and what you mean by belief. Knowledge means having reasons, or justification for having a true belief. Believing just means that you think something is true. So, belief is a factor of knowledge. Another factor of knowledge is truth. We can only know what is true - we cannot know what is false. So, how is it that people wind up with false beliefs? Something is true when we have lots of good reasons to believe that it's true - we have justification for our beliefs. Usually we get justification through our senses - seeing is believing - and so we infer that certain events are true based on our personal experience. So, we can believe something is true based on what we see and what we experience. We also believe something is true based on what we infer, and we believe something is true based on the verbal testimony of others. So, what Turq just wrote is basically his belief and he believes that it is true. But, to deny personal experience is a little more than bizarre! So, where do you think the Turq gets these beliefs, if not from others or from books he read? How would Turq know that a subjective experience is of no value to any one else? Does Turq believe that he has knowledge that is superior to sense experience?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Writing As Spiritual Practice
Ravi: I should clarify when he uses the term subjective experiences he is referring to claims of enlightenment and spiritual experiences... Maybe so, but the idea of 'enlightenment' comes from the verbal testimony of others, not from observation, or from subjective experience. People don't just suddenly shout out that they are enlightened, without having been first exposed to the enlightenment tradition. Is Turq saying that there is another valid means of knowledge - the 'will', that is transcendental or beyond the accepted valid means of knowledge? Is Turq thinking he has some kind of special insight that others do no have? Turq would know nothing about 'enlightenment', unless he read about it in a book, or unless he was told it. If we accept that Turq does not believe in or trust his own senses, then how could he maintain a belief in Rama or that Rama was able to levitate by his own willpower?
[FairfieldLife] Tot Mom
A better defense might have been, Caylee accidentally drowned in the family swimming pool; Casey panicked and hid the body; because Casey is mentally ill. Read more: 'Casey Anthony Trial Update: Jury reaches verdict' CBS News, July 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3m9uhjd 'Casey Anthony trial: Jury reaches verdict' Orlando Sentinel, July 5, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3ttnsu3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Tot Mom
Guilty of lying! Case closed. A better defense might have been, Caylee accidentally drowned in the family swimming pool; Casey panicked and hid the body; because Casey is mentally ill. Read more: 'Casey Anthony Trial Update: Jury reaches verdict' CBS News, July 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3m9uhjd 'Casey Anthony trial: Jury reaches verdict' Orlando Sentinel, July 5, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3ttnsu3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Writing As Spiritual Practice
turquoiseb: He may, in fact, be the one writing this post Obviously Barry is in a state of denial. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Jagger with the Stones~ Angie!'...
To some, it might remind them of various stages of the spiritual development process. Others may hear only a rock song... authfriend: See? I'm special because the song reminds me of the spiritual development process. Other people who aren't as special as I am just hear it as a rock song. That's because everything that happens to Barry is special and enlightening, except when it happens to someone else, and then it's just a big whoop, and nothing special. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Tot Mom
Guilty of lying - a misdemeanor, not a jailing offense, since she has been in prison for three years. Why? Murder was not proved - lack of evidence. Jeff Ashton maybe just laughed too soon, which might have caused the jury to vote the way they did. Jose Baez should demand Casey's immediate release. Guilty of lying! Case closed. A better defense might have been, Caylee accidentally drowned in the family swimming pool; Casey panicked and hid the body; because Casey is mentally ill. Read more: 'Casey Anthony Trial Update: Jury reaches verdict' CBS News, July 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3m9uhjd 'Casey Anthony trial: Jury reaches verdict' Orlando Sentinel, July 5, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3ttnsu3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Casey Anthony Not Guilty of Murder
do.rflex: I told you she was a liar the first day, Mr. Baez told the jury... Mass media blows it again! These are grand days for Nancy Grace, who is enjoying increased ratings on HLN and increased visibility on ABC's 'Good Morning America.' Her coverage of the Casey Anthony trial lifted her HLN ratings 85 percent in June from the same time a year ago. It was the best month ever for Nancy Grace. 'Casey Anthony: Won't you please stop saying that, Nancy Grace?' Orlando Sentinel, July 7, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/5wrbltk
[FairfieldLife] Re: Christianists on the March
Let's bash some Christians today! Apparently some people will stoop at nothing to get a sideways slap at some particular group they don't agree with. Fer chirssakes, Vaj, you could have linked to it, instead of posting the whole thing is 36 point. Send in the clowns! LoL! Vaj: Christianists on the March... BIG SNIP
[FairfieldLife] Re: What kind of meditation did the Buddha teach?
emptybill: Bija mantra-s are the phonemes of oral, chanted Sanskrit. So, we are agreed. Each of these phonemes has the appropriate anusvara added to it (which if chanted like Brahmana-s do in the appropriate manner) turns it into a bija-mantra. If you had the time/place in the past to learn and chant the bija akshara-s of Sanskrit, then you would know this already... The 'bija-mantra' tradition probably originated in South Asia before the invention of Sanskrit grammar by Pannini. But, being esoteric, tantra was secret or hidden from most of the people. The South Indian tantric tradition is far older than the Indian or Tibetan Mantrayana. It has been established that the language of the Indus Valley Civilization was derived from the southern Dravidian languages. (But, Frawley thinks that these early societies spoke an oral prakrit). It has also been established that the Harrapans were practicing tantric yoga before 2400 BCE. So, the literary history of tantra is relatively recent, but the Sankhya-Yoga tradition reaches back into pre-history, according to historians. At any rate, many of the Nath Siddhas were apparently illiterate, as was the historical Buddha, Shakya the Muni. We do not even know what language the Buddha spoke, much less the understanding of what he meant. Work cited: 'Mantra Yoga and Primal Sound' Secret of Seed (Bija) Mantras by David Frawley I don't have much Sanskrit language training but what I have is based upon the same tradition that Sanskrit pandits use, which is the transmission of the oral/aural spoken language. Chanting Patanjalayogasutra is a whole different experience from just reading it. So, we are agreed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Gulf of Mexico continues to Heat Up...'
mainstream20016: ...the spontaneous combustion of Texas Governor Rick Perry on an outdoor public stage during his announcement that he will be a candidate for President. You sound very prejudiced against certain groups of people, based on their birth circumstances. It's difficult to imagine you being a TM Teacher with this kind of negative attitude. Didn't we just go over this kind of flaming a few months ago with the Gifford attack, which was roundly condemned by almost all of the FFL respondents?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling
...because of the supernatural guardianship of the Holy Ghost. turquoiseb: Now that's curious. It makes me want to stand by my earlier characterization of you as a closet Cathar... Isn't that kind of insulting, calling a FFL informant a Cathar - what in hell is wrong with you, Turq? This is just outrageous!!! Can't one of you moderators step in a put a stop to this? Do your job, Rick! The name Cathar (often attributed to Greek or Latin roots meaning cleansing or pure) probably comes from the word cat. Apparently twelfth-century enemies of the Cathars believed their rites included ritually kissing the anus of a cat, in which form Lucifer was said to appear. Toward the end of the twelfth-century, the Cathars were also slandered by the term bougre, from Bulgaria, known to be the source of their heresy. Later the word came to mean sodomite and is the root of the British slang bugger and buggery (193). Source: The Templars and the Assasins by James Wasserman Inner Traditions, 2001
[FairfieldLife] Re: What kind of meditation did the Buddha teach?
Scholarly article on Buddhist meditation, contemporary mindfulness practices, and the Transcendental Meditation technique by Dr. Evan Finkelstein. turquoiseb: Just another attempt to impose TM ideas on a system he neither understands nor respects, and clearly has never tried. Get a grip! Finklestein has been a teacher of TM since 1972, so I guess he has practriced TM. Almost all Mahayana Buddhists use a form of mantra meditation, just like we use in TM practice. This is so obvious that it hardly requires any comment. But, in fact, the term meditation simply means to think things over, so almost everyone on the planet meditates every day. There's probably not a person on the planet who does not pause and take stock of their own mental contents at least twice a day. And, we are all transcending, all the time, even without a specific technique. So, ergo, we are all either Buddhists or Transcendentalists, to a certain degree. So, if Turq is thinking that there is a TM or that there is a Buddhism, he is very far from having a great deal of original insight. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Big Nothing
Ravi Yogi: Interesting but makes sense, thanks Judy. Wow! The last few days must be some kind of record for inflammatory messaging in FFL! Atkins is known for the controversial 2008 documentary 'Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed', in which he told interviewer Ben Stein that religion was a fantasy, and completely empty of any explanatory content. It is also evil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Atkins
[FairfieldLife] Re: Writing As Spiritual Practice
So my thesis is that subjective experience *in itself* is a selfish act that is of no use to anyone else in the world... Ravi Yogi: You are indeed right... Huh? It all depends on what you mean by knowledge and what you mean by belief. Knowledge means having reasons, or justification for having a true belief. Believing just means that you think something is true. So, belief is a factor of knowledge. Another factor of knowledge is truth. We can only know what is true - we cannot know what is false. So, how is it that people wind up with false beliefs? Something is true when we have lots of good reasons to believe that it's true - we have justification for our beliefs. Usually we get justification through our senses - seeing is believing - and so we infer that certain events are true based on our personal experience. So, we can believe something is true based on what we see and what we experience. We also believe something is true based on what we infer, and we believe something is true based on the verbal testimony of others. So, what Turq just wrote is basically his belief and he believes that it is true. But, to deny personal experience is a little more than bizarre! So, where do you think the Turq gets these beliefs, if not from others or from books he read? How would Turq know that a subjective experience is of no value to any one else? Does Turq believe that he has knowledge that is superior to sense experience? If, so it's another Turq flip-flop, since Turq recently proclaimed to be a non-believer in a transcendental experience. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Gulf of Mexico continues to Heat Up...'
You sound very prejudiced against certain groups of people, based on their birth circumstances. It's difficult to imagine you being a TM Teacher with this kind of negative attitude. mainstream20016: My bias - Texans who are Pitta-deranged... You've mixed up your TM religion with your politics. You probably support MMY's caste system and gender separation, right? So, you seem more than biased - you sound hypocritical. Since when did you stop burning Middle East oil in your car? Just be honest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Does Rick Perry's God have something against Texas?
do.rflex: Why does God hate Texas? So, it seems that you hate a lot of different groups of people, for no apparent reason. Prejudice against certain group is always wrong, John. You've been taken to task for this on several occasions. You seem to be trying to outdo yourself. Don't you just hate those Mormons? The outright prejudice of some of you TM Teachers is just astounding! What a hateful bunch of spiritual impostors. Even Sal would probably agree with this assessment! This must be the bash-a-group week on FFL. Go figure. 20062008 American Community Survey, the racial and ethnic composition of Texas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas
[FairfieldLife] Re: Let It Burn
do.rflex: I am so fed up with these fanatics and lunatics, I just want them to get a good solid dose of what they really want... Now John wants to bash the people of Minnesota, I guess because Michele Bachmann lives there. Can anyone here help John with his prejudice problems? Where is Judy when we need her? Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Minnesotans have consistently cast their Electoral College votes for Democratic presidential candidates since 1976, longer than any other state. Minnesota is the only state in the nation that did not vote for Ronald Reagan in either of his presidential runs. Minnesota has gone to the Democratic Party in every Presidential Election since 1960, with the exception of 1972, when it was carried by Richard Nixon and the Republican Party... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota
[FairfieldLife] Re: Summa Wrestling
Ravi Yogi: Indeed by rejecting the feminine values of faith, trust for the fear of harming themselves, one finds themselves separated, alienated and distanced... For centuries after her death, Mary's legacy remained the greatest of all threats to a fearful church that had bypassed Messianic descent in favor of Apostolic succession, wrote Gardener, noting, The most active Magdalen cult was eventually based at Rennes le Chateau in the Languedoc region. Work cited: 'Bloodline of the Holy Grail' By Laurence Gardner Element Books, 1996 Read more: Subject: Harlot of God? Part II Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.religion.gnostic Date: April 17, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/3eedraw
[FairfieldLife] Re: Republicans protect Millionaires - Minnesota government shuts down
Activism is the answer - I see civil war in this country in the future, if the Republican's get their way. Sal: We keep hearing that, but so far I haven't seen any evidence that we are anywhere near. We never are, it's always, Next time we'll do something. But then next time never seems to come. You could at least get out and vote.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
Are you referring to serotonin overdose? Vaj: No I wasn't. Any kind of decoction could be termed 'ayahusca', which is probably similar to the Vedic Soma. The secret ingredients were probably lost long before the Vedic Age. In South America there are all kinds of decoctions that have been invented since the arrival of humans. But, apparently, the secret of the Soma decoction has been lost since well before 1500 B.C. when the Aryans migrated from Persia into India. Ever since then, various substitutes have been developed in India, up to and including, Yoga, which apparently stimulates the production of Seratonin in the brain, which in turn produces a marked sense of well-being. Read more: Subject: Toadstools and the Eternal Return Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental, alt.meditation, alt.yoga Date: February 20, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/6bp25tj
[FairfieldLife] Re: Protests in Greece
wgm4u: Why don't they just confiscate all the money from the 'rich' (over 250K) and redistribute it? That ought to last a least another year or so~, yes? No one should have to work over 50, come on! Why not just give everyone in Greece a government job so they work six hours a day, for four days a week, with a thirty day vacation each year, with full free health care, and then let the paper-pushers retire at age forty with a full pension and health benefits for life, after working ten years. The Greek government could just print money or borrow it from a European bank. Then, the Greek government could lower all the income tax, so the government workers could take home all their hard-earned cash. Then, the Greek government could just refuse to repay the money they borrowed. Yeah, that's the ticket!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ayahuasca Toxicology
But, apparently, the secret of the Soma decoction has been lost since well before 1500 B.C. when the Aryans migrated from Persia into India. cardemaister: According to Bal Gangadhar Tilak, they moved originally from the North Pole: According to the David Frawley, the Aryans speakers came out of South Asia and migrated to the North Pole by way of Siberia. Then, after several centuries, they migrated back to South Asia, taking their language and their Soma decoction with them on their return. But, due to the long lapse of time, the Aryan speakers forgot the recipe for Soma. The original Soma ingredients do not grow in South Asia. So, the question is, did the Aryan speaking people come from outside India? More questions: The Aryans who composed the Vedas were akin to the same Aryans who occupied the Caucasus. Previously, these people lived in Siberia, but when the last ice age forced them to seek warmer climes after living for many years in Siberia? Isn't there a strange affinity between Finnish and Sanskrit? The Indo-European languages: Broadly speaking, the Indo-European, left-written, language group includes Celtic, (Gaulish, Irish, Welsh, Breton, etc.) since the La Tene Iron Age, 500-1 B.C.; Italic (Latin and the Romance languages, etc.); the Germanic languages (Scandanavian, English, Dutch, German, etc.); the Baltic languages (Old Prussian, Lithuanian, Latvian, etc.); the Slavic languages (Polish, Chezh, Slovak, Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Russian, Ukranian, Albanian, etc.); Greek (from the Bronze Age circa 1300 B.C.); Armenian (1900 B.C.); Indo-Iranian (Sanskrit, Old Persian, Avestan) and Tocharian of Chinese Turkestan. Reference: The Oxford Companion to Archaelogy Edited by Brian M. Fagan Oxford University Press, 1996 Read more: Subject: Out of Siberia and into India Author: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: January 12, 2005 http://tinyurl.com/yftgbs3
[FairfieldLife] Re: Protests in Greece
Why not just give everyone in Greece a government job so they work six hours a day, for four days a week, with a thirty day vacation each year, with full free health care, and then let the paper-pushers retire at age forty with a full pension and health benefits for life, after working ten years. The Greek government could just print money or borrow it from a European bank. Then, the Greek government could lower all the income tax, so the government workers could take home all their hard-earned cash. Then, the Greek government could just refuse to repay the money they borrowed. Yeah, that's the ticket! Bhairitu: Gee, Willy, you are starting to make sense! And, when the bank demands repayment of the loan, all the government workers could just go on strike, erect a few barriers in the street, shut down all transportation, lob a few Molotov Cocktails, burn down a few public buildings, kill a cop or two, overturn a few hundred cars, and loot twenty or thirty retail stores in downtown Athens. Then, the striking government workers could walk home to their upstairs apartment, drink a few big bottles of Uzo and watch TV and bitch. Yeah, that's the ticket!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Protests in Greece
whynotnow7: I was listening to Radio Pacifica about what is happening in Greece... Apparently the economy of Greece is a big Ponzi. Most of the people in Greece work for the government. As the workers get old and retire, there was supposed to be new young workers to take the place of the old, so the old could retire and live off the earnings of the younger ones. The problem is there is no industry - and only a few dollars to be made off of the tourists. Nobody in Greece wants to pay taxes on their earnings, and nobody wants to give up the paid vacations, the free medical care for life, and the retirement pensions. The Greeks seem to like the socialist system now, and they are trying to live off of their past success at capitalism. But, the government ran out of cash and had to borrow money from a bank in order to pay the government workers. Now, the bank wants it's money back plus interest. If the Greeks don't pay up and stop the spending, they will get kicked out of the European Union for running a Ponzi. Quick Quiz: Name one socialist country with a successful economy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Colbert explains Bachmann
Rick Archer: (damn, it's funny!) I'll tell you what's funny - Michele Bachmann is from Iowa, and she could probably take the whole state if she wins the nomination. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Colbert explains Bachmann
(damn, it's funny!) seventhray1: The adoring audience with their sustained applausemakes me want to throw up... Don't you just hate that prompted laughter! But, apparently, this is what passes for family entertainment in some parts of Iowa. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: another question for MZ, and maybe William of Occam
I think this post marks the high water mark of your time here. Bob Price: I'm still waiting for the RESPONSE to that bait and switch spitball reducing western civilization to Dualism... Maybe he believes in dualism - after all, we all have two eyes, right? And, most of us have two ears. Not for nothing do we have one single pie hole with one single output orifice, Bob.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sneltrein Musings
turquoiseb: Sitting in my window seat on the fast train back to the Netherlands... Do fast European trains have Wi-Fi? You could have at least waited to post until you got back to your apartment. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Herding Cats
turquoiseb: An experience on two Rama-oriented Facebook forums recently... You're on Facebook now? Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Michele Bachmann, hell's Barbie
And why? Why on earth is she running? Because Michele Bachmann cannot lose. Even if she doesn't get the nomination of her party, she will gain prestige for running, be even more famous and she will increase her presence in the U.S. Congress, which will almost surely help her get attention for her causes and initiatives. So, thanks, Vaj, for helping out in her campaign! But, you could have just posted a link to Momfort's article, not the whole friggin' article. You just committed word theft, Moron. LoL! I don't nearly have the space, and Matt Taibbi's fantastic Rolling Stone piece... According to what I've read, Rolling Stone's editor and Matt Taibi are idiots, having been caught red-handed authoring articles without attributions. Everyone knows that just about everything we know about Michele Bachmann comes from two bloggers who have been following Bachmann for years. So, I guess Rolling Stones sucks big time, AGAIN. She will gain attention for the conservative issues she cares about and may solidify her standing as the national face of the tea party movement making her even more of a force to be reckoned with in Washington... 'Will Michele Bachmann's gaffes hurt her presidential candidacy?' Christian Science Monitor, June 28, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/3dw5vxd After weeks of struggling to break out of the single digits, Bachmann has surged in recent polls. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney is still the solid GOP frontrunner, but Bachmann has started to separate herself from the rest of the pack... 'Bachmann Surging in the Polls Ahead of Campaign Kickoff' Fox News, June 25, 2011 http://tinyurl.com/69o25tm http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/06/29/notes062911.DTL
[FairfieldLife] Re: Children of the Night
So, I'm curious as to how MZ, not to mention Vaj, respond to this: Bhairitu: It doesn't have to be TM either. My tantra guru taught meditation to similar kids through a program on of students who is a juvenile office set up. So, your tantra guru teaches a meditation that is transcendental, which apparently get results just like TM? But, there's no scientific research you can cite to support that. That's what Lawson was asking about - the research. Vaj say it is bogus and dangerous to teach kids tantra yoga. Go figure. Where does it say that 'tantra meditation' gets the same results as TM? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeanne-ball/meditation-trauma-abuse_b_883225.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: another question for MZ, and maybe William of Occam
The first reports were from inner circle disciple and key TM Org donor, Earl Kaplan, in a prematurely released draft of a letter which revealed numerous improprieties with Mahesh and family... sparaig: Hmmm... So, you're saying that Ed Kaplan's original letter claimed that kids took one look at MMY and ran screaming into the night? Maybe it's time for Vaj to review the original Kaplan letter and THEN he could point out where Earl said that children went screaming into the night when they saw MMY! Subject: Re: earl kaplan letter rendered readable Author: Michael Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: August 6, 2004 http://tinyurl.com/3gmwrn6
