[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor
I am going to re-send this post of yours back to you the next time you post an indignant message calling for the Gate Keepers of the Domes to begin allowing people who visit Ammaji et al into the Domes. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 6:51 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor My sense here is that you guys need to work on forgiveness a whole lot more. The movement is a whole lot less authoritarian except for possibly the Prime Minister and some his people around him. They are a very small number anymore. In this new era of boards of trustees the movement is going in to a different more collective space. You should come visit [meditating] Fairfield and heal your wounds. Kindly, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Buck schticks (at least I hope it's schtick): Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding courses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Those long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just wouldn't allow it. And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM. Maybe a checking. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: that is an excellent description, Barry - I never thought of TM as a drug with side effects but I reckon that is what it is. Like a soma pill, with side efects! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 3:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? Depends on the course. On small ATR courses, no nothing in particular was really done. On larger courses, they might have been referred to one of the resident quacks...uh...I mean doctors. But it was clear that no real effort was made to help any of these people who were twitching uncontrollably or having symptoms that looked for all the world like Tourette syndrome or worse, because the prevailing myth was always TM is 100% life supporting. No one was willing to go up against that and add, ...for many people, but for others, it may cause problems. Anyone I ever spoke to who was going through this commented on the Blame the victim mentality they were exposed to. It was always, What are YOU doing wrong that this is happening to you? We all 'know' that it 'shouldn't' be happening. Just to follow up, Michael, here's the essential conundrum posed by all of this. I worked for some time in the West Coast Regional Office of the TMO, arranging all the weekend and longer residence courses
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor
I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding courses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Those long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just wouldn't allow it. And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM. Maybe a checking. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Buck schticks (at least I hope it's schtick): Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding courses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Those long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just wouldn't allow it. And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM. Maybe a checking. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Buck schticks (at least I hope it's schtick): Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
I'm pretty sure the first sidhas course were for TM teachers. Then in summer 1977 they got rolled out for POM, plain old meditators. From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I mean, to develop the TM-Sidhis course, there would have to be experimentation on human guinea pigs; common sense tells you that. Or even if it had somehow been developed without experimentation and presented as a fait accompli, the first people to take the course would automatically be guinea pigs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding courses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Those long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen
Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Yes, Judy but unlike real guinea pigs, the human beings had a choice whether or not to take one of the early courses. I heard it all started because in meetings people started spontaneously lifting up in their chair. From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I mean, to develop the TM-Sidhis course, there would have to be experimentation on human guinea pigs; common sense tells you that. Or even if it had somehow been developed without experimentation and presented as a fait accompli, the first people to take the course would automatically be guinea pigs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspect that those doing so didn't spend much time on long rounding courses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Those long courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medical insurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team of reliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Meaning that the first people on sidhis courses, being TM teachers, were already quite invested in TM. From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Yes, and...? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'm pretty sure the first sidhas course were for TM teachers. Then in summer 1977 they got rolled out for POM, plain old meditators. From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I mean, to develop the TM-Sidhis course, there would have to be experimentation on human guinea pigs; common sense tells you that. Or even if it had somehow been developed without experimentation and presented as a fait accompli, the first people to take the course would automatically be guinea pigs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows that a TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so. But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is 100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negative situations because by definition on a course on which every- one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen. I suspect that some here
RE: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
that's for sure - they all wanted what the Big M promised - techniques 10,000 times more powerful than TM alone - what a crock From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Meaning that the first people on sidhis courses, being TM teachers, were already quite invested in TM. From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:56 AM Subject: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Yes, and...? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I'm pretty sure the first sidhas course were for TM teachers. Then in summer 1977 they got rolled out for POM, plain old meditators. From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:09 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I mean, to develop the TM-Sidhis course, there would have to be experimentation on human guinea pigs; common sense tells you that. Or even if it had somehow been developed without experimentation and presented as a fait accompli, the first people to take the course would automatically be guinea pigs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfriend@... authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfect as course leaders of long residence courses back then. What- ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- it can be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office, I was such a TB that the implications of how we were running those courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gave any thought to what we'd do if something serious came up on one of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctors on call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually *do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than the aforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
absolutely From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfectas course leaders of long residence courses back then. What-ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- itcan be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office,I was such a TB that the implications of how we were runningthose courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gaveany thought to what we'd do if something serious came up onone of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctorson call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually*do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than theaforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows thata TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so.But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negativesituations because by definition on a course on which every-one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen.I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspectthat those doing so didn't spend much time on long roundingcourses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Thoselong courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medicalinsurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team ofreliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just wouldn't allow it. And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM.Maybe a checking. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Buck schticks (at least I hope it's schtick): Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him.Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
sure it was. and we were invited, if one was able to attend. looking back on it, perhaps it was like a second wave, whereby there was an opportunity to be up close with the teacher. and that's just what it turned out to be From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor now that is a good question - how about it, those of you on the first few six month courses? Was it known it was experimental before you went? From: authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor I don't know, I'm just asking--but weren't the course participants all aware that it was going to be experimental when they signed up? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I don't know if it's been mentioned on this thread already but one vital point Kapor makes about his time on the six-month sidhi course is that he felt he and the other participants were being used as experimental subjects. That charge carries weight, doesn't it? These early learners were the guinea pigs for the TMO developing its course material. --- In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I would be surprised if going to this event was OK with the Guardians of the Doors to the Domes. From: dhamiltony2k5@... dhamiltony2k5@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Mitchell Kapor Yeah, the poor aggravated guy. Of course we know a lot more now than we did then. I was on that course too and it wasn't so bad. It was great actually. Would be good now to also hook someone like that up with a little vipassanaic practice along with the transcendence and then also cultivating more with that part in the checking notes about feeling in to the body more. That could all be very helpful to anyone going through their time of acedia. For instance this person, http://www.timeportalpubs.com/has long been very helpful these ways to the meditating community these ways. The waking down community here, https://sites.google.com/site/wakingdowninfairfield/ has been very helpful these ways too for people who suffer this way. Of course you guys left the movement long before what it is now as a meditating community. -Buck Kapor evidently gets angry and leaves everything. Story of his life evidently. And, you are using him as a witness against something? You are cherry picking. Did you actually read the Kapor interview through? Rick Archer on his interview show about spirituality, Batgap.com just interviewed a psychiatrist about this kind of thing. This guy Kapor sounds predisposed in life to have problems where ever he goes. 20 minutes twice a day of meditation with liberal pranayama should proly be good enough for him. Turq writes; Buck, you (or your altered-state ego) would have been perfectas course leaders of long residence courses back then. What-ever course participants complain of -- *whatever* it is -- itcan be cured by pranayama and more (or less) TM. And I understand. Back when I worked at the Regional Office,I was such a TB that the implications of how we were runningthose courses never occurred to me. We never -- NEVER -- gaveany thought to what we'd do if something serious came up onone of our courses. We had no liability insurance, no doctorson call, and no list of what the course leaders should actually*do* if someone started heavily unstressing, other than theaforementioned more (or less) TM and pranayma. Maybe more asanas. And definitely a checking. Everyone knows thata TM checking can cure anything. In retrospect we were incredibly naive, and dangerously so.But we had all bought into that core dogma thang -- TM is100% life-supporting. We didn't have to plan for negativesituations because by definition on a course on which every-one was practicing TM nothing negative could ever happen.I suspect that some here will dispute this. I further suspectthat those doing so didn't spend much time on long roundingcourses, and by long I mean in excess of six weeks. Thoselong courses in Europe didn't have any liability or medicalinsurance, either, and they certainly didn't have a team ofreliable doctors on call. But of course there was no *need* for those things, because by definition on a TM course nothing bad could happen. The Laws Of Nature just wouldn't allow it. And if anything bad *did* happen, no problemo. Whatever it is, it can be cured with pranayama and more (or less) TM.Maybe a checking. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Buck schticks (at least
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger - Kapor realized what was being offered was not what was advertised. He put all his hopes and dreams into Marshy and his bogus teachings and went on straighten himself out and become a mover and shaker in computer and internet technology. I take my hat off to him. No reason to revile him and his experience just because he tells it like it is. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting acid flashbacks. I decided to give meditation a serious try to see if that could have some calming effect. I got hooked in to TM and eventually made the decision to go through advanced training to become an initiator, an instructor. Tricycle: How long did you stay involved with TM? Kapor: I was involved for seven years. It all ultimately came to a head in 1976. The movement went into a new phase and Maharishi started talking about siddhis, powers, and techniques for doing levitation and other things. This created so much cognitive dissonance in me that I didn’t know what to do. I had to find out if it was real or not, and I wanted to believe that it was real, but something in me said that it couldn’t possibly be real. People weren’t really going to levitate. So I went to Switzerland for the sixth-month course on powers. I went and I fell apart. They were using us as experimental subjects. There was fasting involved and various austerities that come out of Hindu traditions, enemas and various bizarre food combining rituals. A lot of madness got released. After five months of this I said whatever problems I might or might not have, TM is not making them better, it is making them worse and I decided to leave. This was like leaving everything, because I had severed all of my other ties and relations: no job, no career, no marriage and no prospects. I got up in the middle of the night and walked to the train station. I felt like I was crossing from slavery into freedom, from one intolerable situation into the great unknown. By the way, no one really levitates. I fully satisfied myself as to that. http://www.kapor.com/writing/tricycle-interview/
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Steve, thanks, it's good to hear the other side of all this. The most I ever rounded was 4 months when I did what was then called the prep courses. This was back in summer of 77 before ayurveda was incorporated. Sadly no Upanishads but definitely some heavy lifting as you say. That continues now and then. But just in the last week, my YF has acquired a devotional feeling! Very out of the blue, but definitely wonderful (-: Hope you and family are well and happy. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian
[FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. I was on quite a few courses on which participants suffered from heavy unstressing. ALL of the most severe cases I saw occur were dealt with using the same NOPA solution. That is, if none of the standard repeated cliches helped to resolve the problem, the person suffering from the heavy unstressing was sent home, and everyone wiped their hands and said Not Our Problem Anymore. From: Steve Sundur steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course.  But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage.  Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do.  I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice.  I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again.  P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings.  P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting acid flashbacks. I decided to give meditation a serious try to see if that could have some calming effect. I got hooked in to TM and eventually made the decision to go through advanced training to become an initiator, an instructor. Tricycle: How long did you stay involved with TM? Kapor: I was involved for seven years. It all ultimately came to a head in 1976. The movement went into a new phase and Maharishi started talking about siddhis, powers, and techniques for doing levitation and other things. This created so much cognitive dissonance in me that I didn’t know what to do. I had to find out if it was real or not, and I wanted to believe that it was real, but something in me said that it couldn’t possibly be real. People weren’t really going to levitate. So I went to Switzerland for the sixth-month course on powers. I went and I fell apart. They were using us as experimental subjects. There was fasting involved and various austerities that come out of Hindu traditions, enemas and various bizarre food combining rituals. A lot of madness got released. After five months of this I said whatever problems I might or might not have, TM is not making them better, it is making them worse and I decided to leave. This was like leaving everything, because I had severed all of my other ties and relations: no job, no career, no marriage and no prospects. I got up in the middle of the night and walked to the train station. I felt like I was crossing from slavery into freedom, from one intolerable situation into the great unknown
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
You are not even making any sense. Following your logic, because you have NOT been meditating, you are the cause of the Colorado storm that killed six people. It makes just as much sense. You didn't even pray for the poor people. Go figure. Or, a crazy guy killed a dozen people at a U.S. Navy shipyard because he played violent video games at home or viewed a lot of violent movies on TV about taking drugs and killing people. On 9/19/2013 6:03 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger - Kapor realized what was being offered was not what was advertised. He put all his hopes and dreams into Marshy and his bogus teachings and went on straighten himself out and become a mover and shaker in computer and internet technology. I take my hat off to him. No reason to revile him and his experience just because he tells it like it is. *From:* awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting acid flashbacks. I decided to give meditation a serious try to see if that could have some calming effect. I got hooked in to TM and eventually made the decision to go through advanced training to become an initiator, an instructor. Tricycle: How long did you stay involved with TM? Kapor: I was involved for seven years. It all ultimately came to a head in 1976. The movement went into a new phase and Maharishi started talking about siddhis, powers, and techniques for doing levitation and other things. This created so much cognitive dissonance in me that I didn’t know what to do. I had to find out if it was real or not, and I wanted to believe that it was real, but something in me said that it couldn’t possibly be real. People weren’t really going to levitate. So I went to Switzerland for the sixth-month course on powers. I went and I fell apart. They were using us as experimental subjects. There was fasting involved and various austerities that come out of Hindu traditions, enemas and various bizarre food combining rituals. A lot of madness got released. After five months of this I said whatever problems I might or might not have, TM is not making them better, it is making them worse and I decided
Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
I suggest you read the interview and then make comments - as much as I like Doc, he is still wearing rosy colored glasses where maree-chee and company are concerned. But he's a fine feller anyway. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger - Kapor realized what was being offered was not what was advertised. He put all his hopes and dreams into Marshy and his bogus teachings and went on straighten himself out and become a mover and shaker in computer and internet technology. I take my hat off to him. No reason to revile him and his experience just because he tells it like it is. I don't revile anyone for leaving the Movement or who became disillusioned or even bitter about their experience there. I was just making a general statement about naive expectations when it comes to those who expect the world for very little effort. I didn't even read the interview, I was addressing what the Doc was saying. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting acid flashbacks. I decided to give meditation a serious try to see if that could have some calming effect. I got hooked in to TM and eventually made the decision to go through advanced training to become an initiator, an instructor. Tricycle: How long did you stay involved with TM? Kapor: I was involved for seven years. It all ultimately came to a head in 1976. The movement went into a new phase and Maharishi started talking about siddhis, powers, and techniques for doing levitation and other things. This created so much cognitive dissonance in me that I didn’t know what to do. I had to find out if it was real or not, and I wanted to believe that it was real, but something in me said that it couldn’t possibly be real. People weren’t really going to levitate. So I went to Switzerland for the sixth-month course on powers. I went and I fell apart. They were using us as experimental subjects. There was fasting involved and various austerities that come out of Hindu traditions, enemas and various bizarre food combining rituals. A lot of madness got released
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:15 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. I was on quite a few courses on which participants suffered from heavy unstressing. ALL of the most severe cases I saw occur were dealt with using the same NOPA solution. That is, if none of the standard repeated cliches helped to resolve the problem, the person suffering from the heavy unstressing was sent home, and everyone wiped their hands and said Not Our Problem Anymore. From: Steve Sundur steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course.  But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage.  Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do.  I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice.  I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again.  P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings.  P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
On 9/19/2013 10:22 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? Apparently the folks were told to take an enema and get some rest and try to take it easy for a few days. Go figure. I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? What would you do - call the EMS and have them taken away by men in white coats, just because they didn't like the food? LoL! *From:* turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:15 AM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. I was on quite a few courses on which participants suffered from heavy unstressing. ALL of the most severe cases I saw occur were dealt with using the same NOPA solution. That is, if none of the standard repeated cliches helped to resolve the problem, the person suffering from the heavy unstressing was sent home, and everyone wiped their hands and said Not Our Problem Anymore. From: Steve Sundur steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course.  But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage.  Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do.  I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice.  I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again.  P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings.  P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Oh, God, Richard you do have a way of expressing stuff that makes me LOL so much. Anyway, maybe Werner had it right all along and we're just tubes and it's all about eating healthy food and having healthy poops! From: Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com To: Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor On 9/19/2013 10:22 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? Apparently the folks were told to take an enema and get some rest and try to take it easy for a few days. Go figure. I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? What would you do - call the EMS and have them taken away by men in white coats, just because they didn't like the food? LoL! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:15 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. I was on quite a few courses on which participants suffered from heavy unstressing. ALL of the most severe cases I saw occur were dealt with using the same NOPA solution. That is, if none of the standard repeated cliches helped to resolve the problem, the person suffering from the heavy unstressing was sent home, and everyone wiped their hands and said Not Our Problem Anymore. From: Steve Sundur steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course.  But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage.  Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do.  I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice.  I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again.  P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings.  P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackson74@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor  Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
In other traditions like the tantra one I learned the guru would have you stop meditating for a while if nothing good was happening. I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point. If I felt any roughness I just went through the motions of rounding. Worked well for me. On 09/19/2013 08:44 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? Depends on the course. On small ATR courses, no nothing in particular was really done. On larger courses, they might have been referred to one of the resident quacks...uh...I mean doctors. But it was clear that no real effort was made to help any of these people who were twitching uncontrollably or having symptoms that looked for all the world like Tourette syndrome or worse, because the prevailing myth was always TM is 100% life supporting. No one was willing to go up against that and add, ...for many people, but for others, it may cause problems. Anyone I ever spoke to who was going through this commented on the Blame the victim mentality they were exposed to. It was always, What are YOU doing wrong that this is happening to you? We all 'know' that it 'shouldn't' be happening.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). On 09/19/2013 08:03 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Bhairitu: If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). So, Mitch Kapor took a yoga course in Switzerland with the Mahesh Yogi and became a teacher of TM and taught TM in Cambridge. Then, he invented Lotus 123 and founded the Lotus Foundation and became a millionaire. Not bad for practicing a few yoga poses and meditating a few minutes a day! So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Bhairitu: I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point... When on a meditation course to become TM teachers I would think that as prospective teachers you'd be checked every day at least. If someone was twitching uncontrollably, do you think they'd pass a simple TM checking procedure? Go figure. On 09/19/2013 08:44 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? Depends on the course. On small ATR courses, no nothing in particular was really done. On larger courses, they might have been referred to one of the resident quacks...uh...I mean doctors. But it was clear that no real effort was made to help any of these people who were twitching uncontrollably or having symptoms that looked for all the world like Tourette syndrome or worse, because the prevailing myth was always TM is 100% life supporting. No one was willing to go up against that and add, ...for many people, but for others, it may cause problems. Anyone I ever spoke to who was going through this commented on the Blame the victim mentality they were exposed to. It was always, What are YOU doing wrong that this is happening to you? We all 'know' that it 'shouldn't' be happening.
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
I would say as high as 20% of the folks I knew at the Seattle TM center back in the day were running computer businesses. If you have the right idea at the right time you are a winner. Or may it is just predestined by the script of the play we're all in. :-D On 09/19/2013 09:31 AM, punditster wrote: Bhairitu: If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). So, Mitch Kapor took a yoga course in Switzerland with the Mahesh Yogi and became a teacher of TM and taught TM in Cambridge. Then, he invented Lotus 123 and founded the Lotus Foundation and became a millionaire. Not bad for practicing a few yoga poses and meditating a few minutes a day! So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
On 09/19/2013 09:38 AM, punditster wrote: Bhairitu: I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point... When on a meditation course to become TM teachers I would think that as prospective teachers you'd be checked every day at least. To attend TTC you had to have passed the checking notes. By the time I went to TTC I had checked over 200 people. This wasn't the attendee getting checked, Richard. It was testing you for the notes. We had to go check someone with a course leader making sure you didn't get even one word wrong. If someone was twitching uncontrollably, do you think they'd pass a simple TM checking procedure? Twitching is often just a blockage working it's way out. Just like a muscle spasm. The roughness on courses was more mental. Go figure. On 09/19/2013 08:44 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: So during the course nothing substantive was done for these folks? I mean beyond telling them to do more asanas or something? Depends on the course. On small ATR courses, no nothing in particular was really done. On larger courses, they might have been referred to one of the resident quacks...uh...I mean doctors. But it was clear that no real effort was made to help any of these people who were twitching uncontrollably or having symptoms that looked for all the world like Tourette syndrome or worse, because the prevailing myth was always TM is 100% life supporting. No one was willing to go up against that and add, ...for many people, but for others, it may cause problems. Anyone I ever spoke to who was going through this commented on the Blame the victim mentality they were exposed to. It was always, What are YOU doing wrong that this is happening to you? We all 'know' that it 'shouldn't' be happening.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
It wasn't a TTC - it was the proverbial Six Month Course for TM teachers to get the siddhis and become Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe you should go to the same community college where Willy Tex is planning to take reading comprehension courses. From: Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). On 09/19/2013 08:03 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 09/19/2013 09:38 AM, punditster wrote: Bhairitu: I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point... When on a meditation course to become TM teachers I would think that as prospective teachers you'd be checked every day at least. To attend TTC you had to have passed the checking notes. By the time I went to TTC I had checked over 200 people. This wasn't the attendee getting checked, Richard. It was testing you for the notes. While I agree with your earlier point: What were they *thinking* having people both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing 6-8 rounds per day?, I have to correct you. On *later* course you might have been required to learn the checking notes before you attended the course. But on earlier courses (e.g., mine, Mallorca-Fiuggi '72) you had to both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing this much meditation per day.
Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
I am sure I have cognitive overload or dissonance or something from all the years I did TM, I missed you working for the Movement - when and where did work for them? And did you enjoy it? From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor And you too, MJ, are a fine fella. I never actually saw, or met, Maharishi, and stopped working for his org in 1982. I did watch a LOT of tapes and read his Gita translation several times. Probably went on twenty Residence Courses. Practiced the TMSP from 1980 to 1993-ish. Did TM from 1975, on. Other than that, it has just been plain hard work, discrimination, and focus. My rosy colored glasses fell off at some point along the way, and I don't wear contacts, either.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I suggest you read the interview and then make comments - as much as I like Doc, he is still wearing rosy colored glasses where maree-chee and company are concerned. But he's a fine feller anyway. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger - Kapor realized what was being offered was not what was advertised. He put all his hopes and dreams into Marshy and his bogus teachings and went on straighten himself out and become a mover and shaker in computer and internet technology. I take my hat off to him. No reason to revile him and his experience just because he tells it like it is. I don't revile anyone for leaving the Movement or who became disillusioned or even bitter about their experience there. I was just making a general statement about naive expectations when it comes to those who expect the world for very little effort. I didn't even read the interview, I was addressing what the Doc was saying. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything you've got. And this is just the start. Anything that comes too easily is either not worth it or will not be appreciated for what it truly is. People need to stop whining, take responsibility for being naive. You should have doubted MMY if you felt he indicated heaven would be yours by merely closing your eyes twice a day for 20 mins. It could never be so and if you believed it you have only yourself to blame. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Mitchell Kapor, Founder of Lotus Software on TM Tricycle: It seems that the material you’ve been involved with has addressed internal and external freedom and an entrenched wariness of authoritarian rule. Is this perspective influenced or affirmed by your experience with the Maharishi? [His full name is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.] Kapor: My dislike for authoritarian structures goes back as far as I can remember in my childhood. If I could remember past lives, I’m sure my memories would extend there too. But my experiences in Transcendental Meditation ultimately really deepened my commitment to anti-authoritarianism. Tricycle: How did you get involved in TM? Kapor: Well, my experience was typical for my generation. I had gotten to college in the 60′s and started experimenting with marijuana and psychedelics, fairly heavily. I had some distressing experiences with LSD. Bad trips. So I stopped doing drugs and then started getting acid flashbacks. I decided to give meditation a serious try to see if that could have some calming
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Oh, I get it now - Mitch Kapor took a TTC and taught TM in Cambridge and THEN took a 'Six Month Course' on how to be a Governor of the Age of Enlightenment so he could learn the siddhis. When he found out he couldn't fly, he quit the program and joined a Buddhist cult. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 11:59 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: It wasn't a TTC - it was the proverbial Six Month Course for TM teachers to get the siddhis and become Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe you should go to the same community college where Willy Tex is planning to take reading comprehension courses. *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). On 09/19/2013 08:03 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
No wonder I had checked more people than the folks at the center who authorized me for TTC. Of course being a musician I was available to check days which was something some of them either going to school or with a job couldn't do. Rounding raises the ether element and makes people more ungrounded. Of course if the participants only had lots of thoughts during rounding maybe didn't have much a problem focusing to pass the checking tests. Those who were visiting other planets and stars or exploring the rent and weave of the universe during rounding not so much so. On 09/19/2013 10:07 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 09/19/2013 09:38 AM, punditster wrote: Bhairitu: I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point... When on a meditation course to become TM teachers I would think that as prospective teachers you'd be checked every day at least. To attend TTC you had to have passed the checking notes. By the time I went to TTC I had checked over 200 people. This wasn't the attendee getting checked, Richard. It was testing you for the notes. While I agree with your earlier point: What were they *thinking* having people both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing 6-8 rounds per day?, I have to correct you. On *later* course you might have been required to learn the checking notes before you attended the course. But on earlier courses (e.g., mine, Mallorca-Fiuggi '72) you had to both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing this much meditation per day.
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
So, after Mitch learned TM and taught it to hundreds of people he joined a Buddhist cult and got better and made millions of dollars. It looks like maybe what he thought was a bad thing turned out to be a good thing. Who wants to make only a few dollars teaching TM when they could make millions with a software program? Go figure. On 9/19/2013 12:07 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: I see you still have reading comprehension problems - Kapor has been very clear that it was AFTER he got clear of the Movement and Marshy's deceit that he became successful - like he said in his interview After five months of this I said whatever problems I might or might not have, TM is not making them better, it is making them worse and I decided to leave. This was like leaving everything, because I had severed all of my other ties and relations: no job, no career, no marriage and no prospects. I am sure you will come back with some idiotic raving about prejudice against Hindus, so I am wasting my time but there it is. *From:* punditster pundits...@gmail.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:31 PM *Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor Bhairitu: If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). So, Mitch Kapor took a yoga course in Switzerland with the Mahesh Yogi and became a teacher of TM and taught TM in Cambridge. Then, he invented Lotus 123 and founded the Lotus Foundation and became a millionaire. Not bad for practicing a few yoga poses and meditating a few minutes a day! So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: RE: Mitchell Kapor
No, more likely that that was the only time they had to do the tests. Believe it or not there were people there who had not learned the notes. It thought it WAS mandatory have learned them to attend TTC. So by the time they had a chance to learn them and take the test it was roundingville. Clue: don't try to apply logic to the workings of the TMO. On 09/19/2013 11:21 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Maybe the idea was that if the checking routine had become such second-nature to you that you could do it flawlessly while you were rounding, you'd never have any trouble with it in other contexts? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: No wonder I had checked more people than the folks at the center who authorized me for TTC. Of course being a musician I was available to check days which was something some of them either going to school or with a job couldn't do. Rounding raises the ether element and makes people more ungrounded. Of course if the participants only had lots of thoughts during rounding maybe didn't have much a problem focusing to pass the checking tests. Those who were visiting other planets and stars or exploring the rent and weave of the universe during rounding not so much so. On 09/19/2013 10:07 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 09/19/2013 09:38 AM, punditster wrote: Bhairitu: I also thought it was crazy that they tested people for the checking notes and puja memorization when rounds were at the high point... When on a meditation course to become TM teachers I would think that as prospective teachers you'd be checked every day at least. To attend TTC you had to have passed the checking notes. By the time I went to TTC I had checked over 200 people. This wasn't the attendee getting checked, Richard. It was testing you for the notes. While I agree with your earlier point: What were they *thinking* having people both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing 6-8 rounds per day?, I have to correct you. On *later* course you might have been required to learn the checking notes before you attended the course. But on earlier courses (e.g., mine, Mallorca-Fiuggi '72) you had to both learn and be tested on the checking notes while doing this much meditation per day.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
I read the article, Michael. I was responding to Richard's assumption it was a TTC. Perhaps you should take reading comprehension courses or get off meth. On 09/19/2013 09:59 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: It wasn't a TTC - it was the proverbial Six Month Course for TM teachers to get the siddhis and become Governors of the Age of Enlightenment. Maybe you should go to the same community college where Willy Tex is planning to take reading comprehension courses. *From:* Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:05 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor If Kapor was on an AE course he probably WASN'T on any six month TTC. He probably was on one of those shorter course that were only 3 months and I think there were a few early one's even shorter (like one month). On 09/19/2013 08:03 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, Mitch Kapor signed up for a six month course to be a TM Teacher. Isn't he the guy that invented Lotus 123? I've always wondered what drives some people to do this - why in the world would it take six moths out of someone's life to learn TM and memorize a simple initiation puja? It takes only a few minutes to teach someone how to meditate. Go figure. Wouldn't you have to be somewhat strange to think you could just take off for six months from your family and your job to sit around and meditate in Switzerland? And then, after walking out on the yoga camp, switch over to join a Buddhist cult and get interviewed by Tricycle. Go figure. On 9/19/2013 7:08 AM, Share Long wrote:
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
RE: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Ahhh, Livingston Manor - I did my first sidhis bloc there, Messrs Big Bopper Bevan and John Cowhig were officiating as TM Sidhi Administrators. Bevan was not fat then, in fact looked like a surfer, narrow waist, broad shoulders. It was January, cold as hell, they had just had a major snow and ice storm that knocked out their electricity, destroyed one of their well pumps, lots of the pipes in the place froze, staff had to put 50 gallon drums of water in the halls and we each had plastic buckets to dip into the drums to haul water to flush our toilets. Food was quite good as I recall - they even had a Southern boy on cooking staff who one day served up grits for breakfast. All the Yankees had no idea what they were or what to do with them. Only complaint I had about it was he used white grits instead of yaller grits. The guy who was running the place, I can't remember his name but I saw his picture on some TM stuff recently - I think he's a raja or works somehow for the Global Country of World Peace. Anyway he got really tick off at us - we had to wait for our first sutras for longer than we were supposed to due to technical incompetence on Bevan and John's part. When we finally got them, they were of course through video/audio tape. After one of the girls on the course was bitching about us not actually seeing marshy and said so in public - in the dining hall and folks heard - so we got chewed out big time for not honoring our agreement to not say nothing about our instruction. That was also the place I saw the Be a Superman, Be a Sidha-man! poster that I would love to have one of now. Good times. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor About three years, total. In rural settings; Livingston Manor, NY and twice near Waverly, MO. I enjoyed it for awhile. My last stint, though, was to evaluate whether or not I would go on to TTC. Thankfully, I made the right choice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am sure I have cognitive overload or dissonance or something from all the years I did TM, I missed you working for the Movement - when and where did work for them? And did you enjoy it? From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor And you too, MJ, are a fine fella. I never actually saw, or met, Maharishi, and stopped working for his org in 1982. I did watch a LOT of tapes and read his Gita translation several times. Probably went on twenty Residence Courses. Practiced the TMSP from 1980 to 1993-ish. Did TM from 1975, on. Other than that, it has just been plain hard work, discrimination, and focus. My rosy colored glasses fell off at some point along the way, and I don't wear contacts, either.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I suggest you read the interview and then make comments - as much as I like Doc, he is still wearing rosy colored glasses where maree-chee and company are concerned. But he's a fine feller anyway. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Jesus, you people! Let's shoot the messenger - Kapor realized what was being offered was not what was advertised. He put all his hopes and dreams into Marshy and his bogus teachings and went on straighten himself out and become a mover and shaker in computer and internet technology. I take my hat off to him. No reason to revile him and his experience just because he tells it like it is. I don't revile anyone for leaving the Movement or who became disillusioned or even bitter about their experience there. I was just making a general statement about naive expectations when it comes to those who expect the world for very little effort. I didn't even read the interview, I was addressing what the Doc was saying. From: awoelflebater@... awoelflebater@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Just a little correction. I think the course Mitch was on must of had YF. That wasn't on the radar on my course. As far as unstressing goes. Hell, it was the more the better. I mean my attitude was bring it on. I remember thinking to myself if I would rather have unstressing manifest itself in a physical, or a mental fashion. And I seemed to get plenty of both. And this may surprise you, but I really never saw evidence of people really going off the deep end - in any of my courses. Of course, I may have just been blind to it. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you just did - perfectly. If someone is let down, disappointed, left feeling cheated or bereft then look to yourselves, people. There is no magic pill for happiness, fulfillment or anything else and if you think MMY indicated this then you read it all wrong. Great things come with great effort. Period. You have to spend years, sweat buckets, will yourself silly and desire it with everything
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Like I said, I was never on any of those courses - always heard things about courses like Majorca but no specifics were ever talked about, at least not from the people I heard - it was third hand rumors - I think Rick and Mark Landau are the first people I ever talked to who were on that course. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Just a little correction. I think the course Mitch was on must of had YF. That wasn't on the radar on my course. As far as unstressing goes. Hell, it was the more the better. I mean my attitude was bring it on. I remember thinking to myself if I would rather have unstressing manifest itself in a physical, or a mental fashion. And I seemed to get plenty of both. And this may surprise you, but I really never saw evidence of people really going off the deep end - in any of my courses. Of course, I may have just been blind to it. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining rituals, not that early in the Movement history anyway. I have a hell of a lot more admiration and respect for Kapor for getting himself out and making something substantive of his life as opposed to asses like Russel Brand and Howard Stern. From: awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 11:36 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Interesting that these people that get so bent out of shape about TM, are the ones that put all their eggs in that one basket, expecting Easter, and candy treats from then on. It's a technique, people, not some panacea for life itself. It doesn't stop the hard work being done, or the sometimes uncomfortable looking at ourselves in the mirror. WTF did you expect? No free lunch on this planet, no matter who you are, or what you do. Absolutely Doc. I have been wanting to say this for a long time now and you
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Oh yea. I've told this story here. I was one who was targeted as being unstable by one Reed Martin during a course in Livingston Manor. Was prevented from going to Zambia because of it. We had just watched a tape of Maharishi describing what was considered to be a good experience. In an interview for people going overseas I related an experience I had which was along these lines. I was flagged, and really had no place other to go than home. Looking back, that was sort of the beginning of the end for me. I still finished up my schooling a MIU for another year or so, but I think that moment might have been when I started to separate some. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Like I said, I was never on any of those courses - always heard things about courses like Majorca but no specifics were ever talked about, at least not from the people I heard - it was third hand rumors - I think Rick and Mark Landau are the first people I ever talked to who were on that course. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Just a little correction. I think the course Mitch was on must of had YF. That wasn't on the radar on my course. As far as unstressing goes. Hell, it was the more the better. I mean my attitude was bring it on. I remember thinking to myself if I would rather have unstressing manifest itself in a physical, or a mental fashion. And I seemed to get plenty of both. And this may surprise you, but I really never saw evidence of people really going off the deep end - in any of my courses. Of course, I may have just been blind to it. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't teach anyone to fly, and Kapor was not looking to get screwed up from the rounding. I will leave it to those who did the six months courses to comment on the experiment comment Kapor made. I have heard of heavy unstressing, but not the enemas and Hindu food combining
RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
That was the guy! He was the one in charge of our course at Livingston Manor - Reed Martin, that was him. So wonder how he justified flagging you if you had an experience that M said was a good experience in the tape? From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Oh yea. I've told this story here. I was one who was targeted as being unstable by one Reed Martin during a course in Livingston Manor. Was prevented from going to Zambia because of it. We had just watched a tape of Maharishi describing what was considered to be a good experience. In an interview for people going overseas I related an experience I had which was along these lines. I was flagged, and really had no place other to go than home. Looking back, that was sort of the beginning of the end for me. I still finished up my schooling a MIU for another year or so, but I think that moment might have been when I started to separate some. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Like I said, I was never on any of those courses - always heard things about courses like Majorca but no specifics were ever talked about, at least not from the people I heard - it was third hand rumors - I think Rick and Mark Landau are the first people I ever talked to who were on that course. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Just a little correction. I think the course Mitch was on must of had YF. That wasn't on the radar on my course. As far as unstressing goes. Hell, it was the more the better. I mean my attitude was bring it on. I remember thinking to myself if I would rather have unstressing manifest itself in a physical, or a mental fashion. And I seemed to get plenty of both. And this may surprise you, but I really never saw evidence of people really going off the deep end - in any of my courses. Of course, I may have just been blind to it. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course. But I thoroughly enjoyed it, and felt I gained much from it. I think what Jim is saying, (and really, I just skimmed it), is that if there is such thing as a spiritual path, and you choose to be on it, that as you move along that path, and you will have to clear away any wreckage. Now probably, many times you may progress a certain amount, and then decide to take a break. And of course, so what if you do. I don't know what on with Mitch, other than he felt he got all he could from the program and then moved on - either with prejudice or without prejudice. I think that's what Jim is saying. But at some point, if you decide to take up the path again, in a more focused way, then you may well have to engage in some heavy lifting again. P.S. My favorite part of that course was the hours of reading the Upanishads. More interesting (and enjoyable) than the Rig Veda readings. P.S.S. The food was...excellent!! From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Kapor didn't say he was looking for a magic bullet or a panacea, he was just wanting what Marshy promised and to see if the sidhis was the real deal, if M could really teach anyone to fly. Obviously he couldn't
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
what was infamous about Wally Courvoisier? From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:32 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Pretty much snowed there eight months out of the year. Saw the Northern Lights several times. It had just turned into a men's facility, when I arrived in early 1978, with the ladies moved to South Fallsburg. The toilets were always broken, and there were rats that could kick your ass, in the kitchen. And several huge raccoons near the dumpsters. I was on staff in the kitchen, until I cut my finger pretty badly trying to catch a rack of glasses that slipped off the dishwashing conveyor. Worked for the A of E Press, running the Stahl T-66 folder, folding and cutting the Age of Enlightenment magazine, then driving the completed palettes of pages to a place in Rochester, NY, to get stapled, trimmed, labeled, and mailed. Drove a box truck into NYC a few times on Movement business - The Bowery, and The Bronx. A slight contrast to the quiet of the Manor. Rick Archer was one of the governing troika, while I was at El Manor, along with Tim somebody, and the infamous Wally Courvoisier. I was twenty four years old and had a good time - good staff camaraderie. Five dollars a week spending money - woo-hoo. It was rustic enough that none of the management could get too intense about anything. The whole place was ready to literally cave in, anyway, and Maharishi wouldn't visit. There were a couple of Cadillac limos in the garage, waiting for him, though, should he ever show. I did manage to cage driving duty, in one, to take some big wig to La Guardia, where we were meeting some minor dignitary from the Bimini Islands or somewhere, who had decided to start TM. The limo handled really well - enough power, and heavy as a tank, so no sliding on corners. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Ahhh, Livingston Manor - I did my first sidhis bloc there, Messrs Big Bopper Bevan and John Cowhig were officiating as TM Sidhi Administrators. Bevan was not fat then, in fact looked like a surfer, narrow waist, broad shoulders. It was January, cold as hell, they had just had a major snow and ice storm that knocked out their electricity, destroyed one of their well pumps, lots of the pipes in the place froze, staff had to put 50 gallon drums of water in the halls and we each had plastic buckets to dip into the drums to haul water to flush our toilets. Food was quite good as I recall - they even had a Southern boy on cooking staff who one day served up grits for breakfast. All the Yankees had no idea what they were or what to do with them. Only complaint I had about it was he used white grits instead of yaller grits. The guy who was running the place, I can't remember his name but I saw his picture on some TM stuff recently - I think he's a raja or works somehow for the Global Country of World Peace. Anyway he got really tick off at us - we had to wait for our first sutras for longer than we were supposed to due to technical incompetence on Bevan and John's part. When we finally got them, they were of course through video/audio tape. After one of the girls on the course was bitching about us not actually seeing marshy and said so in public - in the dining hall and folks heard - so we got chewed out big time for not honoring our agreement to not say nothing about our instruction. That was also the place I saw the Be a Superman, Be a Sidha-man! poster that I would love to have one of now. Good times. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 5:23 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor About three years, total. In rural settings; Livingston Manor, NY and twice near Waverly, MO. I enjoyed it for awhile. My last stint, though, was to evaluate whether or not I would go on to TTC. Thankfully, I made the right choice. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: I am sure I have cognitive overload or dissonance or something from all the years I did TM, I missed you working for the Movement - when and where did work for them? And did you enjoy it? From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor And you too, MJ, are a fine fella. I never actually saw, or met, Maharishi, and stopped working for his org in 1982. I did watch a LOT of tapes and read his Gita translation several times. Probably went on twenty Residence Courses. Practiced the TMSP from 1980 to 1993-ish. Did TM from 1975, on. Other than
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor
Well, you tend to be open about your experiences if asked about them. I guess whatever I said sent up a flag in his mind. As I recall, my name was just never called for the groups that were being sent out. I eventually asked why and got some vague answer. I had a moment of panic, what the hell am I am going to do now. My folks sent some money by Western Union, which I picked up somewhere in NYC and I was on my way home. That was the time, (as I've told here before), when a nice lady saw me milling around the Western Union office, and offered me a place to stay that night. My folks had authorized the payment and then went out to dinner and so were not available to confirm the transaction until what turned out to be the next morning, so I was stranded at the Western Union office until this lady took me in. I slept on a big chair and the apartment was quite cluttered, and she had a big dog. I sort of sneaked out the next morning. Bless her heart. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor That was the guy! He was the one in charge of our course at Livingston Manor - Reed Martin, that was him. So wonder how he justified flagging you if you had an experience that M said was a good experience in the tape? From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Oh yea. I've told this story here. I was one who was targeted as being unstable by one Reed Martin during a course in Livingston Manor. Was prevented from going to Zambia because of it. We had just watched a tape of Maharishi describing what was considered to be a good experience. In an interview for people going overseas I related an experience I had which was along these lines. I was flagged, and really had no place other to go than home. Looking back, that was sort of the beginning of the end for me. I still finished up my schooling a MIU for another year or so, but I think that moment might have been when I started to separate some. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 6:18 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Like I said, I was never on any of those courses - always heard things about courses like Majorca but no specifics were ever talked about, at least not from the people I heard - it was third hand rumors - I think Rick and Mark Landau are the first people I ever talked to who were on that course. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Just a little correction. I think the course Mitch was on must of had YF. That wasn't on the radar on my course. As far as unstressing goes. Hell, it was the more the better. I mean my attitude was bring it on. I remember thinking to myself if I would rather have unstressing manifest itself in a physical, or a mental fashion. And I seemed to get plenty of both. And this may surprise you, but I really never saw evidence of people really going off the deep end - in any of my courses. Of course, I may have just been blind to it. From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Well, I wasn't there - but from what I have heard of the heavy unstressing on many courses, it doesn't sound like there was an effective means or program in place to assist those who were going through stuff. If there was I would like to know that and to know what things were put into place to assist people going through the unstressing. Such a thing would make me think more highly of the Movement than I do now. From: Steve Sundur steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Mitchell Kapor Hey Mikey. How you livin'. Listen, I was on the six month course. The first one actually, where the experimentation was rampant. Enemas, diet control, (or at least many theories to consider). Rick was on that course too. I guess for Mitch, it wasn't his cup of tea, so he left. I think he may have been on a later course. Or at least I don't remember him on my course
