[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I know many people who go to the dome and I cannot think of a single one who is controlled by the TMO. The whole idea seems ludicrous to me. I think it was cooked up by people who don't live here and have no real clue about the way things are in Fairfield. The TMO, through the dome programs (for which no charge is made), is in fact performing a service for the community. The reason the malcontents can't recognize this is because they can only see through the lens of their own negativity. Fundamentalist of all kinds who feel threatened by TM, on this forum particularily Buddhists.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
On Aug 1, 2012, at 7:18 PM, iranitea wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The examples you cite are not of people being controlled by the TMO. They are examples of people being excluded from the dome, which is quite different. No one is being controlled. People are making choices, that's all. If someone excludes you from their club, do you feel controlled? Depends, if the club is the place where I live my life, and if the club makes demands on my life style, and quite possible on my inner attitude, AND make this clear to me in unmistakeble terms, the execute control. TM is more than just a club they joined, which could be substituted by any other club around the corner at any time. It's a lifestyle, and it's a beliefsystem as well. You will notice this once you leave. While it makes sense that dome admins want and need to have everyone compliant if they are to actually be doing 'the same program at the same time'. The not-so-obvious downside of this is people who practice, say Buddhism or Sufism or whatever will have other spiritual teachers and other spiritual practices they do. If such a person is banned from the domes, they'd in effect be banning them from the practice of their own religion of choice. So much for TM not interfering with religion, huh? That's not to say the movement hasn't had problems with things like this before, sometimes from deliberate subterfuge. In the 80's Robin Carlsen created a faux-TM Sidhi practice called Technique for the Discovery of Grace, a bizarre variation of the TMSP, and then had MIU students go to the domes and practice it there, to deliberately stir the pot. Unfortunately Grace left Robin long ago for another man. :-(
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: While it makes sense that dome admins want and need to have everyone compliant if they are to actually be doing 'the same program at the same time'. The not-so-obvious downside of this is people who practice, say Buddhism or Sufism or whatever will have other spiritual teachers and other spiritual practices they do. If such a person is banned from the domes, they'd in effect be banning them from the practice of their own religion of choice. So much for TM not interfering with religion, huh? Interesting. I'm thinking not so much about people being kept from the domes because of their religious practices, but whether the dome program *itself* has ever been an issue for religious people. Say someone is a devout Muslim. They are supposed to pray at certain specified times of the day, without fail. What if the Muslim in question was participating in the dome program and the time for his Maghrib (sunset) prayer rolls around. Is he supposed to move to the side of the dome, spread out his prayer rug, and do his prayers there, before returning to the TM-siddhi program, or is he supposed to skip his Muslim prayers?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
On Aug 2, 2012, at 8:35 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: While it makes sense that dome admins want and need to have everyone compliant if they are to actually be doing 'the same program at the same time'. The not-so-obvious downside of this is people who practice, say Buddhism or Sufism or whatever will have other spiritual teachers and other spiritual practices they do. If such a person is banned from the domes, they'd in effect be banning them from the practice of their own religion of choice. So much for TM not interfering with religion, huh? Interesting. I'm thinking not so much about people being kept from the domes because of their religious practices, but whether the dome program *itself* has ever been an issue for religious people. Well for Jews and Christians there's always been the biblical injunction Thou shalt have no other gods before me. What happens when a TMer arrives at the heavenly gate and Ole St. Pete senses the mantra of another god or goddess neuroplastically locked into their mode of functioning? Purgatory or Hell? Dunno. This little problem was always danced around by Mahesh Co. by claiming the mantras were meaningless sounds. While they are not assigned a specific meaning in the practice of TM, they do, alas, have very specific meanings and gods or goddesses (other than YHVH-1) to which they belong. Say someone is a devout Muslim. They are supposed to pray at certain specified times of the day, without fail. What if the Muslim in question was participating in the dome program and the time for his Maghrib (sunset) prayer rolls around. Is he supposed to move to the side of the dome, spread out his prayer rug, and do his prayers there, before returning to the TM-siddhi program, or is he supposed to skip his Muslim prayers? H. Now that would be interesting to see.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Unless, of course, said authorities are attempting to *preserve* the beloved thing by enforcing rules that the person tacitly acknowledged were good when they were a full-fledged participant, simply by virtue of being a full-fledged participant. Now, you can argue that enforcing an unwritten rule about only going to Movement-sanctioned astrologers and gem-therapists is going a bit far, but since just about everyone reading this apparently agrees that a substantial reason why these sanctioned people/organizations exist in the first place is to serve as a fundraiser for the TMO and associated projects (in the case of MAPI, it is written into it's charter, IIRC!), it shouldn't surprise anyone that such rules, formal or informal, exist and that Current Believers⢠try to enforce them. So... even quasi-believers, at least when living in Fairfield, IA, national/international HQ of the TM organization, should not be surprised when people try to convince them to follow the guidelines, and it seems silly to object to people trying to get you to follow guidelines overtly designed to keep the Beloved Thing going, if you are STILL going to participate in some way with others in using the Beloved Thing. You can object all you want, but given the nature of the givens, it seems a silly thing to complain about: wanna continue to use our private facilities? Continue to abide, at least in public, with the guidelines that are set up concerning use of our private facilities. If you think something illegal, immoral or unethical is going on, take it to the proper civil/legal authorities. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Tea wrote: A more apt comparision would be a relationship, a marriage that breaks up. People are literally married to the movement. The movement is in their brains, not just through meditation (that's the good thing), but also through everything they know and believe. My comment: Extending this analogy I'd say that I got divorced from the TMO but we remain good friends and sometimes even hang out together eg when I go to the Dome. Tea, I sense what you're saying. To use different words: that the authorities threaten individuals with the loss of something beloved unless those individuals do what the authorities want them to do. Is that an accurate way to describe it? If this is truly happening, then no need to worry. Any organization that uses such tactics will destroy itself from the inside out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Lawson, you make it sound so black and white and I agree that on at least one level it is. However, it's also true that when one admires an organization, one expects it to refrain from using physical force or emotional blackmail with its participants. Especially if that organization teaches a technique that develops the full potential of the individual and society. Wouldn't such development, of both individuals and the organization, allow the problem to be resolved naturally and in a life affirming manner? OTOH I completely support the TMO preventing practitioners of other techniques to do program in the Dome. It sounds like it's been a difficult task to ascertain who is doing such. Herein lies the gray area, sticky wickets, etc. What I sense about TMO these days, is that it is more relaxed about all this. And I could be wrong. I don't know the details of Buck's situation. Or even if he's a gov. As covered here before, govs are expected to be more loyal in their behavior. Last but not least, who are the proper authorities if something immoral is happening?! Share, enjoying your clarity From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:25 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Unless, of course, said authorities are attempting to *preserve* the beloved thing by enforcing rules that the person tacitly acknowledged were good when they were a full-fledged participant, simply by virtue of being a full-fledged participant. Now, you can argue that enforcing an unwritten rule about only going to Movement-sanctioned astrologers and gem-therapists is going a bit far, but since just about everyone reading this apparently agrees that a substantial reason why these sanctioned people/organizations exist in the first place is to serve as a fundraiser for the TMO and associated projects (in the case of MAPI, it is written into it's charter, IIRC!), it shouldn't surprise anyone that such rules, formal or informal, exist and that Current Believers™ try to enforce them. So... even quasi-believers, at least when living in Fairfield, IA, national/international HQ of the TM organization, should not be surprised when people try to convince them to follow the guidelines, and it seems silly to object to people trying to get you to follow guidelines overtly designed to keep the Beloved Thing going, if you are STILL going to participate in some way with others in using the Beloved Thing. You can object all you want, but given the nature of the givens, it seems a silly thing to complain about: wanna continue to use our private facilities? Continue to abide, at least in public, with the guidelines that are set up concerning use of our private facilities. If you think something illegal, immoral or unethical is going on, take it to the proper civil/legal authorities. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Tea wrote: A more apt comparision would be a relationship, a marriage that breaks up. People are literally married to the movement. The movement is in their brains, not just through meditation (that's the good thing), but also through everything they know and believe. My comment: Extending this analogy I'd say that I got divorced from the TMO but we remain good friends and sometimes even hang out together eg when I go to the Dome. Tea, I sense what you're saying. To use different words: that the authorities threaten individuals with the loss of something beloved unless those individuals do what the authorities want them to do. Is that an accurate way to describe it? If this is truly happening, then no need to worry. Any organization that uses such tactics will destroy itself from the inside out.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Tea wrote: As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. My reply: Tea, I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with the TMO. I wish there were something even now I could do in some zany way, to make amends. Maybe something will come to me. Same for Buck. Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me. Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin. There is also Robin0, the one who experimented with LSD (which I never took). Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post Robin1 tells that the initiation into TM is the most marvelous experience, to which we should always be committed and faithful. Robin4 tells Emily it is better to never start TM, and Robin1 tells Vaj, that he
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
I know many people who go to the dome and I cannot think of a single one who is controlled by the TMO. The whole idea seems ludicrous to me. I think it was cooked up by people who don't live here and have no real clue about the way things are in Fairfield. The TMO, through the dome programs (for which no charge is made), is in fact performing a service for the community. The reason the malcontents can't recognize this is because they can only see through the lens of their own negativity. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Tea wrote: As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. My reply: Tea, I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with the TMO. I wish there were something even now I could do in some zany way, to make amends. Maybe something will come to me. Same for Buck. Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me.  Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I know many people who go to the dome and I cannot think of a single one who is controlled by the TMO. The whole idea seems ludicrous to me. I think it was cooked up by people who don't live here and have no real clue about the way things are in Fairfield. The TMO, through the dome programs (for which no charge is made), is in fact performing a service for the community. The reason the malcontents can't recognize this is because they can only see through the lens of their own negativity. That's rubbish and a prejudice. Ask Buck, ask me. I know many people who have made this experience, and I have made it myself. I my case it is long time back, but it's first hand experience. Feste, you are just in denial. If you have no negative experience, it is nice for you, you just never came into any conflict yourself, so I am glad for you. I just recently ran into an old friend, he is still fully in the movement, and he was shocked that he was denied access to the domes, after 40 years in TM, being a governor and belonging to a prominent movement group. The denial of access was a pure act of punishment, for something nobody here on FFL would consider a serious issue. It is because of him that I re-published this video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiKZjq0vTWg I had taken it off already, when seemingly Bucks case had been resolved, but as long a access to the domes is used as a sanction, as a punishment, I will leave it on the net, to warn everybody. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Tea wrote: As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. My reply: Tea, I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with the TMO. I wish there were something even now I could do in some zany way, to make amends. Maybe something will come to me. Same for Buck. Share, like many here I had good and also bad experiences with the TMO. Life is a mix of many things. That I left was utimately good for me, and I think it came in the right moment. But truthfully, I do not want to be part of a movement that is oppressive in this particular way. Why do they use the group program to put pressure on peoples lifes and faith? This to me is not an acceptable policy. So my decission was and is, to not put myself at the mercy of the likes of Bevan and the Rajas, even though I may know some of them personally. If you are happy there, Share, fine. But basically, given the situation as it is, you will always be vulnerable. As Feste says so aptly, as long as they own the house, they can do with you what they want. (i.e. deny access for whatever reason they like) Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me.  Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? If they wouldn't want to control people, why do they then set up these strange rules? Share, at the moment you 'fit in', and there is no problem. But at the moment they would get on you for any of the other activities you have been doing, Ammachi, your interest in other techniques of emotional release, Arunachala (if you would ever want to travel there), all these things could become an issue of conlict at a time. And depending how important the group program is for you this conflict could become existential. It has been so for many people for many years. Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. Yep. But it upsets me if my friends I have known for decades, are still in this situation. That is why I sympathize with Buck, because I have been in exactly the same situation for years. I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin. There is also Robin0, the one who experimented with LSD (which I never took). Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post Robin1 tells that the initiation into TM is the most marvelous experience, to which we should always be committed and faithful. Robin4 tells Emily it is better to never start TM, and Robin1 tells Vaj, that he doesn't know anything because he never transcended and urges him to start learning TM. It is as if all these personas, are overlay-ed upon each other, but there is no final resolution. Maybe it is your purpose to work on your own history, to reach a sense of resolution between these levels, but to me it seems you resort to some sort of mysticism instead. For Buck I am glad that he is there, in whatever situation he is in, and makes these things known to us creating transparency. To me he is a very authentic and honest person
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
me.  Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? If they wouldn't want to control people, why do they then set up these strange rules? Share, at the moment you 'fit in', and there is no problem. But at the moment they would get on you for any of the other activities you have been doing, Ammachi, your interest in other techniques of emotional release, Arunachala (if you would ever want to travel there), all these things could become an issue of conlict at a time. And depending how important the group program is for you this conflict could become existential. It has been so for many people for many years. Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. Yep. But it upsets me if my friends I have known for decades, are still in this situation. That is why I sympathize with Buck, because I have been in exactly the same situation for years. � I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
do not want to be part of a movement that is oppressive in this particular way. Why do they use the group program to put pressure on peoples lifes and faith? This to me is not an acceptable policy. So my decission was and is, to not put myself at the mercy of the likes of Bevan and the Rajas, even though I may know some of them personally. If you are happy there, Share, fine. But basically, given the situation as it is, you will always be vulnerable. As Feste says so aptly, as long as they own the house, they can do with you what they want. (i.e. deny access for whatever reason they like) Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me.  Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? If they wouldn't want to control people, why do they then set up these strange rules? Share, at the moment you 'fit in', and there is no problem. But at the moment they would get on you for any of the other activities you have been doing, Ammachi, your interest in other techniques of emotional release, Arunachala (if you would ever want to travel there), all these things could become an issue of conlict at a time. And depending how important the group program is for you this conflict could become existential. It has been so for many people for many years. Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. Yep. But it upsets me if my friends I have known for decades, are still in this situation. That is why I sympathize with Buck, because I have been in exactly the same situation for years. � I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
have been doing, Ammachi, your interest in other techniques of emotional release, Arunachala (if you would ever want to travel there), all these things could become an issue of conlict at a time. And depending how important the group program is for you this conflict could become existential. It has been so for many people for many years. Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. Yep. But it upsets me if my friends I have known for decades, are still in this situation. That is why I sympathize with Buck, because I have been in exactly the same situation for years. � I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Share, like many here I had good and also bad experiences with the TMO. Life is a mix of many things. That I left was utimately good for me, and I think it came in the right moment. But truthfully, I do not want to be part of a movement that is oppressive in this particular way. Why do they use the group program to put pressure on peoples lifes and faith? This to me is not an acceptable policy. So my decission was and is, to not put myself at the mercy of the likes of Bevan and the Rajas, even though I may know some of them personally. If you are happy there, Share, fine. But basically, given the situation as it is, you will always be vulnerable. As Feste says so aptly, as long as they own the house, they can do with you what they want. (i.e. deny access for whatever reason they like) Meanwhile I want to address what you say above because it relates to what you describe as unforgiveable. I simply want to say that I go to the Dome. AND I do not feel that the TMO has me in their hands nor are controlling me. In fact, if I ponder about it, I don't even think they want to control me.  Wouldn't that be silly anyway, given increased field independence with TM? If they wouldn't want to control people, why do they then set up these strange rules? Share, at the moment you 'fit in', and there is no problem. But at the moment they would get on you for any of the other activities you have been doing, Ammachi, your interest in other techniques of emotional release, Arunachala (if you would ever want to travel there), all these things could become an issue of conlict at a time. And depending how important the group program is for you this conflict could become existential. It has been so for many people for many years. Again I'm sorry for your bad experience with TMO. You do seem mostly at peace about it. Yep. But it upsets me if my friends I have known for decades, are still in this situation. That is why I sympathize with Buck, because I have been in exactly the same situation for years. � I'm grateful for that. And that you're here. And that you've been willing to engage with such a TBer as me (-: I never felt any hostility from you Share. I feel hostility only from people who call me purposefully negative. But they may be forgiven. They don't know. Enjoy your life, Share. Everything will be fine for you I feel. From: iranitea no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 9:33 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
To Robin(x): suggest that you read this, especially in light of your relatively recent attempts to create a non-enlightened version of yourself: http://www.skepdic.com/mpd.html L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: Dear Robbie Boy, You made one big goof here. I am correcting you. Note: When the subjectivity of iranitea, on the other hand, cooperates somehow with the movement and intention of reality in a given second, and does not stick out and make a spectacle of itself, that means *you are not losing contact with the reality which created you*. Get it? You left out the NOT there, Robin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote Dear Iranitea, Robin1: Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Iranitea: Robin, don't fight it. Because which Robin would fight it, and would all the other Robins agree? Try to take them into the boat rather. Robin2: Are you by any chance making fun of me, iranitea? I have found, since I wrote this post, that there is a way of *using my freewill* to choose which Robin I want to be�I have not left that to the Three Gunas. I can be any Robin I want to be�any of the seven. What interests me most, though, iranitea, is which Robin *would* you like me to be in this moment? By the way, there is a Robin8�that's the Robin that realizes that B's inadvertent irony is an irony more subtle even than my own. But when I'm *not* Robin8 I keep thinking: Hey, Emily is right, and B is just studiously ignoring her posts (critical of him�poor guy)�but when I become Robin8 (not sure what consciousness that is�but it permits me to see right into the soul of B) I realize B is having us all on. He's pretty damn good, I'd say. A big kidder all the way�but with the meanest of purity of intention, I am sure. That's no mean intention B has, I mean. What's this about a boat? It's funny you would say that because once I had a dream where all seven (I had not had the privilege of knowing sweet, gentle, docile B�so, no eight Robins then) Robins were existing simultaneously. And it was *inside a boat* It is called hepta-location rather than bi-location and is one of the miracles only available to the consciousness of he who has been two, then one, then two again. If you get my drift. (Two means something quite different when you have been absolutely one�I mean the pre-One Two is other than the Post-One Two.) Robin1: Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)�I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinO�he was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a she�and she's very beautiful�Oh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)�but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Iranitea1: Yes RobinRomantic, he must be a twin of RobinN (RobinNostalgic) Robin2: No nostalgia, no romances. You trying to get a dig in there, iranitea? Look, I am fiercely proud of going with those mantras (they took me there) right into Unity. But I am even more proud of defying those mantras�and the Unity Consciousness they gloriously conferred upon me�and getting back to being in ignorance. Where is the f***ing nostalgia, iranitea? I just stand up for my rights around here. Nostalgia, well, that would mean I pine for the good old days, right? I wouldn't go back there for all the bliss inside Vaj's mind. Sentimental longing for the past�that kind of pain and ache and melancholy, why that's that first person ontology BS. No, I am a now kind of guy, iranitea. Feel it? No looking back for me. But I think you right in this one respect: My fame derives from my claims to have been enlightened under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and to the extent that gets the attention of readers at FFL, well, I think it is a legitimate trick when I post�Of course I have no business�if I really have moved on�referring constantly and nauseatingly to my enlightenment past, but I can assure you, iranitea, if you had been there, you would find this temptation quite overwhelming. Because you see, when I was enlightened I wielded authority over others�and this, I admit,
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Emily, You're new to this? To be fair, Turqb does provide the man on the street account of the Pundits here in Vedic City. I interview a lot of people and Turq is right on how a lot of people on the street here would say this. It's what we've lived with here in Fairfield and on FFL. The pundit project is a huge undertaking and Turq is right about it in that it would not have happened except for the initiative of some people and the donation of separate money by people independent of Maharishi. It was interesting to see back when it was discovered that the pundits actually could be brought here to Fairfield and then Vedic City, that it just took fulfilling the procedures published on the US Indian Consulate page. Actually this was pointed out and explored on the pages of FFL whence some high-ups on their own then went to and visited the Consulate in India to work out the details on their own hook. It takes money upfront to bond people wanting to come to the US on visas from India like this. That money evidently got put up by donors separate from Maharishi's money and we now have the pundit program in Vedic City. JGD, -Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
This kept me smiling! Especially --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: Dear Share, I am doing this once again! While I am delighted to keep our conversation going, I do have the sense that you may not be investing in that conversation in quite the way that I am. I am attempting to be quite rigorous while at the same time maintaining the sense of a loving friendliness with you, since you are charming and intelligent enough to keep me talking. What I sense, Share, is that you have more or less written me off as someone with whom you are prepared to risk very much in terms of seeing just how far your beliefs will take you. That is, as I challenge those beliefs indirectly by my own hard-won convictions about matters pertaining to the human soul. I would not want to stop talking to you, Share, but is it not true that you are more interested in the warmth and cheer of our friendship than any really serious examination of 'what is real' and what is not so real? (This is said without an implied criticism whatsoever. I am biased towards a more intellectual approach to these things, and perhaps I am just giving away my own limitations here.) I don't want to seem supercilious or intellectually patrician, Share, but I sense that the give-and-take of our dialogue might be slackening into something that more resembles mere repartee during a coffee break as opposed to the more formal and aesthetically stringent Japanese tea ceremony (it was observed) we were once performing (at the beginning). I think the ritual is becoming perhaps a little too casual and spontaneous somehow, and the tea is getting a little weak. What say you, Share?Since I have only begun to initiate the canonization processand we have not yet heard from the advocatus diaboliI am reluctant to call you Saint Share (I won't use your Eastern appellation) yet.What say you to my sense that perhaps we should just post letters to each other at this point? [like this one] I am especially interested in the authenticity of the two miracles you are said to have performed (in order to have a Promoter of the Cause for your possibleI thought imminentSainthood). Last time you persuaded meas almost no one else could under those circumstancesto resume our conversation, and I am very glad you did, because I feel, right up to my last post to you, I have benefited from our conversation. But with your latest contribution, I feel perhaps we know each other and our respective beliefs to the point where there might not be sufficient creative (and loving) tension between us to justify perpetuating our colloquy. I feel I have been the beneficiary of your discerning heart, Shareand I note that you are getting a little uncomfortable at the speed with which the Church at FFL is bringing on your canonization. It seems, we sinners here at FFL need the example of a saint, so even if you are not, in your own estimation, quite up for the job, it will do the rest of us so much good to have someone we can look upon whospontaneously, naturallyjust tells us the sweet truth. I think I was expecting a little more Hegel and The Song of Sixpence. But you really are kind and good and very real, Share. Talk me out of this if that is the will of your Guardian Angel. You are an actual blessing for all of us on FFL. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Share3 who will be going to writing group this afternoon, then Release session with partner in Sydney, then Dome. So not at computer again til this evening. From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: snip Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Robin3:Personal coercion is just concentrated universal coercion. My dear Share: Pray, tell me what act that you have ever seen performed by a human being was not 'personal'? Tell me one. The sense I had was that the cosmic intelligence that was computing my actions was inexorably driving this show-down with Maharishi, and the personal Robin was just a witness to this drama. The cosmic intelligence in me was forcing the cosmic intelligence in Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Well *that* certainly--your comment--sounds personal. Because it *is* personal. But you see, Share, the intelligences behind making me enlightened--and, I would contend, making Maharishi enlightened--*these intelligences are very personal*. There is no impersonal intelligence
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Share3 who will be going to writing group this afternoon, then Release session with partner in Sydney, then Dome. So not at computer again til this evening. From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: snip Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Robin3:Personal coercion is just concentrated universal coercion. My dear Share: Pray, tell me what act that you have ever seen performed by a human being was not 'personal'? Tell me one. The sense I had was that the cosmic intelligence that was computing my actions was inexorably driving this show-down with Maharishi, and the personal Robin was just a witness to this drama. The cosmic intelligence in me was forcing the cosmic intelligence in Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Well *that* certainly--your comment--sounds personal. Because it *is* personal. But you see, Share, the intelligences behind making me enlightened--and, I would contend, making Maharishi enlightened--*these intelligences are very personal*. There is no impersonal intelligence or reality in the universe. *Everything is infinitely personal*--from where I see it. So, in a sense, your intuition was correct; the intelligences behind Maharishis Unity Consciousness were doing one thing, whereas the intelligences behind Robin's Unity Consciousness were doing another thing--*even though these were the same intelligences*! But there is one thing we are leaving out here: The creator of all these intelligences, even the mischievous ones that make persons enlightened--or think they are enlightened. That being too (being very personal) has his reasons—but then, as Paul said: Who has ever known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? I only say, Share, that my actions vis-a-vis Maharish--at all times--were subject to and subjugated by my Unity Consciousness--and this was always experienced to be, ultimately at least, under the aegis of cosmic intelligence. I would say things, do things, that I would never dream of doing before I was enlightened--I literally had no control even over my body: if cosmic intelligence wanted me to stand up, I would find myself standing up. If I was supposed to speak, I would speak—and the words that came out of my mouth were not experienced to have been thought out first by myself—and how many times I was shocked by what I said! Share3: Ghazali! Again with contradicting yourself! Either those energies are always personal. Or it is the witness who is personal and what it is witnessing is not! Anyway, if it is personal, even infinitely personal, then can the person really have no control? snip Share2: That part about my ambition to make people act in life supporting ways made me laugh at first. Then I asked if it could be true. Oy! Yes, when I feel vulnerable, as I do right now, I wish I could make or inspire certain people to act in certain ways. Robin3: Nothing to say here to this, Share. I think your statement/confession: Oy! Yes, when I feel vulnerable, as I do right now, I wish I could make or inspire certain people to act in certain ways a perfect testimony to the realness of the truth of how you live out your life. This very desire--to have persons be more loving or generous or positive--that itself is a spontaneous (or I have come to regard it as so) expression of the person that God created to be Share Long. IMO. It just--when I read it on the page (screen)--came out as something intrinsic to being Share Long. So I like it and thank God he made you this way. :-) Share3: My intention was not as lofty as you say but thank you. And am now wondering if you're projecting all of your goodness onto me. Yes, the golden shadow! snip Share2: I'm thinking of taking that high wire in my hands and making my way to the side in hand over hand fashion. And it is not the smash mouth football that will have mainly contributed to my retreat. You've already survived so much. I'm sure you'll do the same re my philosophy, whatever the heck that is (-: Robin3: I like what motivates your philosophy, Share--and you have already survived some heavy sidewinds without toppling over and plunging down into the swirling waters (did you see that guy walk across Niagara Falls?). I don't think you will fall--or if you do, you will be airborne. I don't know how you do it, but I am becoming convinced it is inside your DNA. If you can experience that reality, nature, or even your very biology
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote Dear Iranitea, Robin1: Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Iranitea: Robin, don't fight it. Because which Robin would fight it, and would all the other Robins agree? Try to take them into the boat rather. Robin2: Are you by any chance making fun of me, iranitea? I have found, since I wrote this post, that there is a way of *using my freewill* to choose which Robin I want to beI have not left that to the Three Gunas. I can be any Robin I want to beany of the seven. What interests me most, though, iranitea, is which Robin *would* you like me to be in this moment? By the way, there is a Robin8that's the Robin that realizes that B's inadvertent irony is an irony more subtle even than my own. But when I'm *not* Robin8 I keep thinking: Hey, Emily is right, and B is just studiously ignoring her posts (critical of himpoor guy)but when I become Robin8 (not sure what consciousness that isbut it permits me to see right into the soul of B) I realize B is having us all on. He's pretty damn good, I'd say. A big kidder all the waybut with the meanest of purity of intention, I am sure. That's no mean intention B has, I mean. What's this about a boat? It's funny you would say that because once I had a dream where all seven (I had not had the privilege of knowing sweet, gentle, docile Bso, no eight Robins then) Robins were existing simultaneously. And it was *inside a boat* It is called hepta-location rather than bi-location and is one of the miracles only available to the consciousness of he who has been two, then one, then two again. If you get my drift. (Two means something quite different when you have been absolutely oneI mean the pre-One Two is other than the Post-One Two.) Robin1: Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinOhe was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a sheand she's very beautifulOh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Iranitea1: Yes RobinRomantic, he must be a twin of RobinN (RobinNostalgic) Robin2: No nostalgia, no romances. You trying to get a dig in there, iranitea? Look, I am fiercely proud of going with those mantras (they took me there) right into Unity. But I am even more proud of defying those mantrasand the Unity Consciousness they gloriously conferred upon meand getting back to being in ignorance. Where is the f***ing nostalgia, iranitea? I just stand up for my rights around here. Nostalgia, well, that would mean I pine for the good old days, right? I wouldn't go back there for all the bliss inside Vaj's mind. Sentimental longing for the pastthat kind of pain and ache and melancholy, why that's that first person ontology BS. No, I am a now kind of guy, iranitea. Feel it? No looking back for me. But I think you right in this one respect: My fame derives from my claims to have been enlightened under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and to the extent that gets the attention of readers at FFL, well, I think it is a legitimate trick when I postOf course I have no businessif I really have moved onreferring constantly and nauseatingly to my enlightenment past, but I can assure you, iranitea, if you had been there, you would find this temptation quite overwhelming. Because you see, when I was enlightened I wielded authority over othersand this, I admit, I find hard to give up. But all things considered, iranitea, I am trying, like Share, to love my way out of all this. Trying, then, in the very end, to make B be nice to me. I will consider legal action if you ever accuse me of being RobinNostalgicThey're ain't no such Robin. Not so far, iranitea. So this is a libel. (Right Marek?) By the way, are you on the level here? Perhaps you are just joshing meyou are capable of doing that, aren't you? I don't mind intellectual argument, but no ad hominems, please, iranitea. Are you Persian by the way? Born into a Shi'a household? Or does iran refer to your Aryan roots? And you quite possibly are Indian. Doesn't matter to me by the way: But you got the reference to the tea and oranges that come all the way from China, right? Robin1: Are you wanting a fight here, iranitea? Iranitea1: Me? No! I can't take it up with 7 Robins. Robin2: Good. That's smart of you, iranitea. Right
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Dear Robbie Boy, You made one big goof here. I am correcting you. Note: When the subjectivity of iranitea, on the other hand, cooperates somehow with the movement and intention of reality in a given second, and does not stick out and make a spectacle of itself, that means *you are not losing contact with the reality which created you*. Get it? You left out the NOT there, Robin. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote Dear Iranitea, Robin1: Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Iranitea: Robin, don't fight it. Because which Robin would fight it, and would all the other Robins agree? Try to take them into the boat rather. Robin2: Are you by any chance making fun of me, iranitea? I have found, since I wrote this post, that there is a way of *using my freewill* to choose which Robin I want to beI have not left that to the Three Gunas. I can be any Robin I want to beany of the seven. What interests me most, though, iranitea, is which Robin *would* you like me to be in this moment? By the way, there is a Robin8that's the Robin that realizes that B's inadvertent irony is an irony more subtle even than my own. But when I'm *not* Robin8 I keep thinking: Hey, Emily is right, and B is just studiously ignoring her posts (critical of himpoor guy)but when I become Robin8 (not sure what consciousness that isbut it permits me to see right into the soul of B) I realize B is having us all on. He's pretty damn good, I'd say. A big kidder all the waybut with the meanest of purity of intention, I am sure. That's no mean intention B has, I mean. What's this about a boat? It's funny you would say that because once I had a dream where all seven (I had not had the privilege of knowing sweet, gentle, docile Bso, no eight Robins then) Robins were existing simultaneously. And it was *inside a boat* It is called hepta-location rather than bi-location and is one of the miracles only available to the consciousness of he who has been two, then one, then two again. If you get my drift. (Two means something quite different when you have been absolutely oneI mean the pre-One Two is other than the Post-One Two.) Robin1: Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinOhe was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a sheand she's very beautifulOh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Iranitea1: Yes RobinRomantic, he must be a twin of RobinN (RobinNostalgic) Robin2: No nostalgia, no romances. You trying to get a dig in there, iranitea? Look, I am fiercely proud of going with those mantras (they took me there) right into Unity. But I am even more proud of defying those mantrasand the Unity Consciousness they gloriously conferred upon meand getting back to being in ignorance. Where is the f***ing nostalgia, iranitea? I just stand up for my rights around here. Nostalgia, well, that would mean I pine for the good old days, right? I wouldn't go back there for all the bliss inside Vaj's mind. Sentimental longing for the pastthat kind of pain and ache and melancholy, why that's that first person ontology BS. No, I am a now kind of guy, iranitea. Feel it? No looking back for me. But I think you right in this one respect: My fame derives from my claims to have been enlightened under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and to the extent that gets the attention of readers at FFL, well, I think it is a legitimate trick when I postOf course I have no businessif I really have moved onreferring constantly and nauseatingly to my enlightenment past, but I can assure you, iranitea, if you had been there, you would find this temptation quite overwhelming. Because you see, when I was enlightened I wielded authority over othersand this, I admit, I find hard to give up. But all things considered, iranitea, I am trying, like Share, to love my way out of all this. Trying, then, in the very end, to make B be nice to me. I will consider legal action if you ever accuse me of being RobinNostalgicThey're ain't no such Robin. Not so far, iranitea. So this is a libel. (Right Marek?) By the way, are you on the level here? Perhaps you are just
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
oy --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote Dear Iranitea, Robin1: Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Iranitea: Robin, don't fight it. Because which Robin would fight it, and would all the other Robins agree? Try to take them into the boat rather. Robin2: Are you by any chance making fun of me, iranitea? I have found, since I wrote this post, that there is a way of *using my freewill* to choose which Robin I want to beI have not left that to the Three Gunas. I can be any Robin I want to beany of the seven. What interests me most, though, iranitea, is which Robin *would* you like me to be in this moment? By the way, there is a Robin8that's the Robin that realizes that B's inadvertent irony is an irony more subtle even than my own. But when I'm *not* Robin8 I keep thinking: Hey, Emily is right, and B is just studiously ignoring her posts (critical of himpoor guy)but when I become Robin8 (not sure what consciousness that isbut it permits me to see right into the soul of B) I realize B is having us all on. He's pretty damn good, I'd say. A big kidder all the waybut with the meanest of purity of intention, I am sure. That's no mean intention B has, I mean. What's this about a boat? It's funny you would say that because once I had a dream where all seven (I had not had the privilege of knowing sweet, gentle, docile Bso, no eight Robins then) Robins were existing simultaneously. And it was *inside a boat* It is called hepta-location rather than bi-location and is one of the miracles only available to the consciousness of he who has been two, then one, then two again. If you get my drift. (Two means something quite different when you have been absolutely oneI mean the pre-One Two is other than the Post-One Two.) Robin1: Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinOhe was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a sheand she's very beautifulOh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Iranitea1: Yes RobinRomantic, he must be a twin of RobinN (RobinNostalgic) Robin2: No nostalgia, no romances. You trying to get a dig in there, iranitea? Look, I am fiercely proud of going with those mantras (they took me there) right into Unity. But I am even more proud of defying those mantrasand the Unity Consciousness they gloriously conferred upon meand getting back to being in ignorance. Where is the f***ing nostalgia, iranitea? I just stand up for my rights around here. Nostalgia, well, that would mean I pine for the good old days, right? I wouldn't go back there for all the bliss inside Vaj's mind. Sentimental longing for the pastthat kind of pain and ache and melancholy, why that's that first person ontology BS. No, I am a now kind of guy, iranitea. Feel it? No looking back for me. But I think you right in this one respect: My fame derives from my claims to have been enlightened under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and to the extent that gets the attention of readers at FFL, well, I think it is a legitimate trick when I postOf course I have no businessif I really have moved onreferring constantly and nauseatingly to my enlightenment past, but I can assure you, iranitea, if you had been there, you would find this temptation quite overwhelming. Because you see, when I was enlightened I wielded authority over othersand this, I admit, I find hard to give up. But all things considered, iranitea, I am trying, like Share, to love my way out of all this. Trying, then, in the very end, to make B be nice to me. I will consider legal action if you ever accuse me of being RobinNostalgicThey're ain't no such Robin. Not so far, iranitea. So this is a libel. (Right Marek?) By the way, are you on the level here? Perhaps you are just joshing meyou are capable of doing that, aren't you? I don't mind intellectual argument, but no ad hominems, please, iranitea. Are you Persian by the way? Born into a Shi'a household? Or does iran refer to your Aryan roots? And you quite possibly are Indian. Doesn't matter to me by the way: But you got the reference to the tea and oranges that come all the way from
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Dear Share, I am doing this once again! While I am delighted to keep our conversation going, I do have the sense that you may not be investing in that conversation in quite the way that I am. I am attempting to be quite rigorous while at the same time maintaining the sense of a loving friendliness with you, since you are charming and intelligent enough to keep me talking. What I sense, Share, is that you have more or less written me off as someone with whom you are prepared to risk very much in terms of seeing just how far your beliefs will take you. That is, as I challenge those beliefs indirectly by my own hard-won convictions about matters pertaining to the human soul. I would not want to stop talking to you, Share, but is it not true that you are more interested in the warmth and cheer of our friendship than any really serious examination of 'what is real' and what is not so real? (This is said without an implied criticism whatsoever. I am biased towards a more intellectual approach to these things, and perhaps I am just giving away my own limitations here.) I don't want to seem supercilious or intellectually patrician, Share, but I sense that the give-and-take of our dialogue might be slackening into something that more resembles mere repartee during a coffee break as opposed to the more formal and aesthetically stringent Japanese tea ceremony (it was observed) we were once performing (at the beginning). I think the ritual is becoming perhaps a little too casual and spontaneous somehow, and the tea is getting a little weak. What say you, Share?Since I have only begun to initiate the canonization processand we have not yet heard from the advocatus diaboliI am reluctant to call you Saint Share (I won't use your Eastern appellation) yet.What say you to my sense that perhaps we should just post letters to each other at this point? [like this one] I am especially interested in the authenticity of the two miracles you are said to have performed (in order to have a Promoter of the Cause for your possibleI thought imminentSainthood). Last time you persuaded meas almost no one else could under those circumstancesto resume our conversation, and I am very glad you did, because I feel, right up to my last post to you, I have benefited from our conversation. But with your latest contribution, I feel perhaps we know each other and our respective beliefs to the point where there might not be sufficient creative (and loving) tension between us to justify perpetuating our colloquy. I feel I have been the beneficiary of your discerning heart, Shareand I note that you are getting a little uncomfortable at the speed with which the Church at FFL is bringing on your canonization. It seems, we sinners here at FFL need the example of a saint, so even if you are not, in your own estimation, quite up for the job, it will do the rest of us so much good to have someone we can look upon whospontaneously, naturallyjust tells us the sweet truth. I think I was expecting a little more Hegel and The Song of Sixpence. But you really are kind and good and very real, Share. Talk me out of this if that is the will of your Guardian Angel. You are an actual blessing for all of us on FFL. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Share3 who will be going to writing group this afternoon, then Release session with partner in Sydney, then Dome. So not at computer again til this evening. From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2012 3:17 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: snip Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Robin3:Personal coercion is just concentrated universal coercion. My dear Share: Pray, tell me what act that you have ever seen performed by a human being was not 'personal'? Tell me one. The sense I had was that the cosmic intelligence that was computing my actions was inexorably driving this show-down with Maharishi, and the personal Robin was just a witness to this drama. The cosmic intelligence in me was forcing the cosmic intelligence in Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Well *that* certainly--your comment--sounds personal. Because it *is* personal. But you see, Share, the intelligences behind making me enlightened--and, I would contend, making Maharishi enlightened--*these intelligences are very personal*. There is no impersonal intelligence or reality in the universe. *Everything is infinitely personal
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: [...] Generally I agree with this. My only comment is to ask how much of that stockpile of money is liquid. 3.5 billion would yield at 3%, 105 million a year. That would take care of a lot. It would have to be invested in equities and corporate bonds, not the low interest of government securities that are current. If the money is mostly in land, its not going to generate cash unless it is leased out to paying customers. The amount of available cash is probably considerably less than that total. And how much of that land is being siphoned off to private parties is another consideration. All of these are good points EXCEPT there is no way that the TM organization has $3.5 billion in capital stashed away. The height of initiations in the USA and around the world was just after the Merv Griffith show appearances where *up to* 35,000 people a month were starting in the USA, the most of any country. Assuing that they had that 35,000 x $125 revenue for the past 480 months, you get: $2.1 billion, about 1/2 of that going to the teachers so slightly over $1 billion gross revenue for the international TM organization in the past 40 years. MMY would have to be REALLY good to triple that money since you still have to pay *something* for the international organization, and I'm assuming that initiations were 3.5 million a year for the past 40 years which of course they were not. The latest figures from India brag that 45,000 people started TM last year in India. The TM organization claims that about 6 million people have learned TM in the last 40 years. Assuming they all paid $2500, that would be $13 billion, half of which went to the TM organization, so $6.5 over 40 years. You'd still have to have only 50% expenses to get that $3.5 billion, and knowing how the TM organization operates, do you really think they saved 50% of their gross revenue per year? It's a stupid figure plucked out of the air. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: [...] Generally I agree with this. My only comment is to ask how much of that stockpile of money is liquid. 3.5 billion would yield at 3%, 105 million a year. That would take care of a lot. It would have to be invested in equities and corporate bonds, not the low interest of government securities that are current. If the money is mostly in land, its not going to generate cash unless it is leased out to paying customers. The amount of available cash is probably considerably less than that total. And how much of that land is being siphoned off to private parties is another consideration. All of these are good points EXCEPT there is no way that the TM organization has $3.5 billion in capital stashed away. The height of initiations in the USA and around the world was just after the Merv Griffith show appearances where *up to* 35,000 people a month were starting in the USA, the most of any country. Assuing that they had that 35,000 x $125 revenue for the past 480 months, you get: $2.1 billion, about 1/2 of that going to the teachers so slightly over $1 billion gross revenue for the international TM organization in the past 40 years. MMY would have to be REALLY good to triple that money since you still have to pay *something* for the international organization, and I'm assuming that initiations were 3.5 million a year for the past 40 years which of course they were not. The latest figures from India brag that 45,000 people started TM last year in India. The TM organization claims that about 6 million people have learned TM in the last 40 years. Assuming they all paid $2500, that would be $13 billion, half of which went to the TM organization, so $6.5 over 40 years. You'd still have to have only 50% expenses to get that $3.5 billion, and knowing how the TM organization operates, do you really think they saved 50% of their gross revenue per year? It's a stupid figure plucked out of the air. And if I might suggest it, yours is a stupid attempt to keep from dealing with the real issue. *Whatever* amount of money the TMO has, it is *more than enough* to fully fund any attempt to gather the magic number of buttbouncers in Fairfield. They've had the money to accomplish this for decades, but never did. Why do you think that is? I can suggest two reasons. The first is that dangling the never-quite-reached-carrot of some magic number in front of TMers allows the organization to keep using that carrot for begging/fundraising (pretty much the only income the org has these days). The second is more likely; if the TMO really ever *did* do what any ethical spiritual organization would do and spent its own money to test out the ME theory, and they gathered the magic number, what would they do if nothing happened as a result? No world peace, no heaven on Earth, nada. They can't risk that. Do you really think it's *ethical* for an organization that claims to have the secret to achieving world peace, and that *clearly* has the money to fund such an effort themselves, to not do so? If so, please explain your reasons for believing this.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Share2 on a rainy Sunday morning almost autumnal in feeling very sweetly mournful this morning From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices snip Share1: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. Robin2: Not exactly sure what you mean here, Share. No, if you are asking me to speculate on the reasons for why Maharishi, after seven years of never criticizing me—despite the clamour from his governors, finally uttered four sounds which did not indicate he approved of what I was doing there in Fairfield—that is a question that merits a separate post. What you are not taking into consideration is: *This was not a personal desire of Robin's* that Maharishi officially recognize my enlightenment and its immediate and profound application to every TM Governor—and therefore to Maharishi's very Teaching; no, Share, the intelligence which had created my enlightenment and which had control over my actions, that intelligence was pushing me into this confrontation and resolution with Maharishi. I had the sense, throughout those seven years, that Maharishi and I were performing a kind of dance of very subtle mental intelligence; but finally, I forced him to commit himself. And then there was a form of superficial peace—even though the reality remained the same—and my connection with Maharishi was what it had always been. I was not seeking emotional healing—although I admit I don't quite see the connection of this comment to what I said in what I have said to you. Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Furthermore, if that intelligence was impersonal, then Maharishi, indeed the whole cosmos, would have been subsumed in it including the clamouring governors. In the emotional healing comment I was expressing why my personal agenda was no longer compatible with the movement's. Perhaps you were seeking some other kind of resolution. snip Share1: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. Robin2: Is this a discussion you really want to have, Share? I will just stipulate that Paul baby didn't get Christ wrong—Christ made certain of that by knocking him down and blinding him on the Road to Damascus. Before this he was standing around urging his brethren to make those stones draw blood from Saint Stephen's uncovered head. Admittedly he would be a somewhat strident poster on FFL; but he was brilliant, brave, and true—Good choice by Christ to forcibly recruit him to the good side. Christ destroyed his boundaries and his prejudices in a lightning moment; after that he was aggressive as a missionary, but secretly docile to his Master. I hope we both get to meet him some day, Share—he chose not to reincarnate by the way: He wanted the heaven thing, solidly inside his first-person ontology. Too bad we can't e-mail him right now. :-) But I will grant you that Paul, he was pretty big on them there rules and regulations—but for us fallen souls, they were, until you got to heaven, pretty indispensable. Who have you seen achieve anything without obeying rules and regulations, Share? The only rationale for ignoring rules and regulations is to be beyond those rules and regulations and in direct contact with Natural Law, with the intrinsic laws and regulations of the universe—like physics. Like mathematics. Like astronomy. Like architecture. Like—let me say it—love. Hi, Share: did you see Emily's comment today? I wonder how your philosophy will allow you to both take in the truth of what she has said—unless the person to whom it is directed chooses to address her, which he will not—and at the same time, preserve your ambition, which is to make everyone act in a life-supporting fashion. By the way I never forget Maharishi at Humboldt (I wasn't there by the way; I only listened to the audio tapes—all of them—over and over again while teaching school) talking about never speaking ill of others; how doing so drives that person down—indicating that anything negative thought, let alone spoken about someone, has an injurious effect on that person—while pulling oneself down as well. Fascinating and powerful idea—which I adopted all the way—until I got enlightened. Then I let her rip—or was forced
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: And if I might suggest it, yours is a stupid attempt to keep from dealing with the real issue. *Whatever* amount of money the TMO has, it is *more than enough* to fully fund any attempt to gather the magic number of buttbouncers in Fairfield. They've had the money to accomplish this for decades, but never did. Why do you think that is? Because the western world should pay for it's own progress towards peace and prosperity. That's why. But wait, that doesn't fit into your got to hate the TMO no matter what because they are diminishing the infuence of my Lama view. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
there are no competitors here. The most profound realization one has when one is made a teacher of TM by Maharishi, is: this is It. There isn't anything else. And if TM cannot do what it says it doestake one to the level of pure consciousnessthen we are selling a product which does not do what we say it does. Any compromise on this policy of guarding the purity of the teaching will mean the gradual corruption of TM and the dilution of Maharishi's Teaching, That is one thing that Maharishi was able to do that no other teacher in our lifetime has been able to do: Make us experience that he was the very best, the only one, and that what he was giving to us was coming directly from reality or God or the source of creative intelligence. Any flexibility, reasonableness, tolerance here just makes no sense at allunless the people at the top are giving up their claim to the exclusiveness of TM as being the most beautiful way to transcend that is available anywhere. I refer readers (who have done TM) to their first TM experience. How it happened; what the process was like; how they experienced the mantra working inside of them. The very miraculous innocenceand profundityof this experience signifies: No competition will be allowedbecause what could produce an experience equal to the one you first had when you started TM? I don't say the policy is justified on the basis of TM being what Maharishi made us believe it was, and what our experiencesat least for awhileconfirmed, because of course I don't think that TM and Maharishi have continued to get the grace and support which would indicate that reality and God still think they are It. But in terms of the truth of one's devotion to one's Master, and Maharishi brilliant and unchallengeable authority to persuade us of his preeminent position and status in Creationand his gift to us in the form of his spiritual technologywhat the TMO is doing in being careful about vetting persons who meditate in the Dome is not only reasonable, it is entirely truthful to their conscience, their understanding of the will of Maharishi, and their own sense of what is the right thing to do. This behaviour on the part of those who wield this authority over meditators is irreproachable in my estimation. Of course if these persons believed that there was another path to God, to the Self, to enlightenment, then the enforcement of these policies would be subject to moral scrutiny. Inside the context of what they deem as truth and the means of not betraying the wishes of their Master, they are behaving entirely appropriatelyThere simply is no argument to be made against them whatsoever. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: snip Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post Robin1 tells that the initiation into TM is the most marvelous experience, to which we should always be committed and faithful. Just curious if anyone else understood Robin to be saying we should always be committed and faithful to the initiation into TM. Robin4 tells Emily it is better to never start TM, and Robin1 tells Vaj, that he doesn't know anything because he never transcended and urges him to start learning TM. It is as if all these personas, are overlay-ed upon each other, but there is no final resolution. It's hard to know whether the above represents a genuine misunderstanding on iranitea's part, or if he's doing his best to mislead readers to think Robin is being inconsistent. snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: Dear Share, My take on all this policing of persons who go outside of the spiritual resources sanctioned by the TM Movement is pretty simple. Those who devise and enforce these rules (which originated in Maharishi himself) are going by their first experience of what TM and Maharishi represented: This is The Way; there is no other way that compares to the TM-Maharishi way. TM is defined as the simplest and most natural technique to take one to the deepest level of one's very beingthere is no other practice which is defined mechanically and objectively such as to afford the most efficient way of transcendingthere are no competitors here. The most profound realization one has when one is made a teacher of TM by Maharishi, is: this is It. There isn't anything else. And if TM cannot do what it says it doestake one to the level of pure consciousnessthen we are selling a product which does not do what we say it does. Any compromise on this policy of guarding the purity of the teaching will mean the gradual corruption of TM and the dilution of Maharishi's Teaching, That is one thing that Maharishi was able to do that no other teacher in our lifetime has been able to do: Make us experience that he was the very best, the only one, and that what he was giving to us was coming directly from reality or God or the source of creative intelligence. Any flexibility, reasonableness, tolerance here just makes no sense at allunless the people at the top are giving up their claim to the exclusiveness of TM as being the most beautiful way to transcend that is available anywhere. I refer readers (who have done TM) to their first TM experience. How it happened; what the process was like; how they experienced the mantra working inside of them. The very miraculous innocenceand profundityof this experience signifies: No competition will be allowedbecause what could produce an experience equal to the one you first had when you started TM? I don't say the policy is justified on the basis of TM being what Maharishi made us believe it was, and what our experiencesat least for awhileconfirmed, because of course I don't think that TM and Maharishi have continued to get the grace and support which would indicate that reality and God still think they are It. But in terms of the truth of one's devotion to one's Master, and Maharishi brilliant and unchallengeable authority to persuade us of his preeminent position and status in Creationand his gift to us in the form of his spiritual technologywhat the TMO is doing in being careful about vetting persons who meditate in the Dome is not only reasonable, it is entirely truthful to their conscience, their understanding of the will of Maharishi, and their own sense of what is the right thing to do. This behaviour on the part of those who wield this authority over meditators is irreproachable in my estimation. Of course if these persons believed that there was another path to God, to the Self, to enlightenment, then the enforcement of these policies would be subject to moral scrutiny. Inside the context of what they deem as truth and the means of not betraying the wishes of their Master, they are behaving entirely appropriatelyThere simply is no argument to be made against them whatsoever.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: [...] Do you really think it's *ethical* for an organization that claims to have the secret to achieving world peace, and that *clearly* has the money to fund such an effort themselves, to not do so? If so, please explain your reasons for believing this. I still don't see the clearly here. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: [...] Do you really think it's *ethical* for an organization that claims to have the secret to achieving world peace, and that *clearly* has the money to fund such an effort themselves, to not do so? If so, please explain your reasons for believing this. I still don't see the clearly here. Still playing dodgeball. I am disappointed. *Assume* that the TMO had all the money it needed to fund as many buttbouncers as it claims it needs to achieve world peace. Is there *any* reason that you can think of that would be valid for not paying for it themselves?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: Dear Iranitea, Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinOhe was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a sheand she's very beautifulOh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Are you wanting a fight here, iranitea? Why can't you just be nice and show us you are becoming the Selfinstead of faking us out by displaying so prominently all the earmarks of the little self you are trying to get rid of? Sucking up to Buck, are you? I am loving and honouring and respecting Buck. Yeah, I could use a transparency make-over. But what about Share Long? Where does she fit into the cosmos? I am working on that one as you can see. No, iranitea, it all makes perfect sense: Why there are seven Robins, is the same reason why there are 330 millions gods in Hinduism, or, to speak more conservatively: There is no second God, nor a third, nor is even a fourth spoken of There is no fifth God or a sixth nor is even a seventh mentioned. There is no eighth God, nor a ninth. Nothing is spoken about a tenth even. This unique power is in itself. That Lord is only one, the only omnipresent. It is one and the only one. Atharva Veda 13.4.2 19-20 I am aware, in my seven states of Robin simultaneouslyor as my poor (but very pretty) psychoanalyst puts it: my Multiple Personalityof essentially being The Lord [as] only oneI am the one and the only one. I know this by direct experience, iranitea, and you are just trying to bring me back into ignorance and Maya and trying to fuck with my mind. I am enlightened! Don't you know that by now, iranitea? Sure I resort to mysticism but maybe I don't. Maybe I am just playing at being seven Robins. And maybe I am not. Maybe I created myself*and even created YOU, iranitea*and maybe I did not (probably not, as a matter of fact). Enjoy the mystical, iranitea: it's what it's all about after all. And in the final analysis what does it matter how we quarrel here on FFL? We are, after all, only the Self. You and me, iranitea: *We are the same*! Life obviously is infinitely innocent and infinitely ironic. Don't you see this, iranitea? I am one of the Hindu gods using the universe as my playground. Just like you, iranitea. I see what you are doing! Wink-wink. But do the readers here at FFL? We won't tell them, iranitea. Or will we? Iranitea: And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin. There is also Robin0, the one who experimented with LSD (which I never took). Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post Robin1 tells that the initiation into TM is the most marvelous experience, to which we should always be committed and faithful. Robin4 tells Emily it is better to never start TM, and Robin1 tells Vaj, that he doesn't know anything because he never transcended and urges him to start learning TM. It is as if all these personas, are overlay-ed upon each other, but there is no final resolution. Maybe it is your purpose to work on your own history, to reach a sense of resolution between these levels, but to me it seems you resort to some sort of mysticism instead. For Buck I am glad that he is there, in whatever situation he is in, and makes these things known to us creating transparency. To me he is a very authentic and honest person.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Iranitea, this essay of yours is extremely topical around here. There is a lot in play right now and this is so much of what the overt wrangling between strict Maharishi guideline preservationists on one hand and TM progressives of the meditating community on the other. There's an evident confusion of the administrative guidelines with the teaching on the part of the MMY guideline preservationists. It's a very small group now that drives this trying to hold everyone else hostage to their point of view which is absolute in their minds. Of course, in the meantime a lot of meditators have left and gone away whilst our strict MMY guideline preservationists are not even close to either waging peace or reconciliation in their position with the meditating community. It seems to be a hard fought contention and the preservationists expect absolute terms of surrender for everyone in the discussion. With Kind Regards, -Buck in Fairfield --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@... wrote: When I first signed the agreement form, it as just short before we received the TM initiator initiation, I thought that it was a mere formality, and I thought that the term purity of the teaching related to teaching the 7 steps of TM. 7 steps. Intro lecture, prep lecture, personal interview, initiation - the puja, the mantras, the 'steps', and the 3 days checking. That's it, I thought. But now I learn, that signing this agreement form, was like signing a blanco checque, that anything could be added to this term, be it Ayurveda, Vastu, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi natural products etc etc. And now I learn, that the purity of the teaching relates to all of them, and we don't even know what is yet to come, which will fall under this term. The purity of the teaching is really a whore. Knowing all this development, we should have at least have one week of lectures just about the agreement form. I think there was one lecture by Maharishi, playing it more or less down. At the times I signed it first, there were no domes yet, no group flying, no Ayurveda, no Vastu or Maharishi Jyotish, no Maharishi honey etc. What I find unforgivable, is the fact, that the group program, which is really the holy grail of the movement is being instrumentalized as a means of punishment, of sanctioning, and if Buck is correct, to impart the rules they make, would allow them to spy on people and behave in a manner which only the secret service does. And even more so, do this out of a basically economic reason, as several posters here agree. Where is the purity of the teaching in all this? At the moment I learned about the purity of the teaching, it was about 'capture the fort, and all else will be given to you'. No need for special services and add on techniques. Now you are jeopardizing the purity of the teaching if you buy the wrong house, or the wrong honey or the get the wrong horoscope. And of course, you didn't know anything about this, hen you signed this paper at your TTC. As long as people feel this commitment to go to the domes, or as long as they want to participate in the common group program, so long the movement will have you in their hands, they will be able to control people. I cannot feel such a commitment on the basis of the experiences I had when starting to meditate. While I see the value of TM, especially for the beginner, I don't see it's exclusiveness. Transcendence to me predates any experience, I had anticipations of transcendence before TM, I had experiences before too. And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Share2 on a rainy Sunday morning almost autumnal in feeling very sweetly mournful this morning From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices snip Share1: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. Robin2: Not exactly sure what you mean here, Share. No, if you are asking me to speculate on the reasons for why Maharishi, after seven years of never criticizing me--despite the clamour from his governors--finally uttered four sounds which did not indicate he approved of what I was doing there in Fairfield--that is a question that merits a separate post. What you are not taking into consideration is: *This was not a personal desire of Robin's* that Maharishi officially recognize my enlightenment and its immediate and profound application to every TM Governor--and therefore to Maharishi's very Teaching; no, Share, the intelligence which had created my enlightenment and which had control over my actions, that intelligence was pushing me into this confrontation and resolution with Maharishi. I had the sense, throughout those seven years, that Maharishi and I were performing a kind of dance of very subtle mental intelligence; but finally, I forced him to commit himself. And then there was a form of superficial peace--even though the reality remained the same--and my connection with Maharishi was what it had always been. I was not seeking emotional healing--although I admit I don't quite see the connection of this comment to what I said in what I have said to you. Share2: Well it's ok RC but you do seem to contradict yourself in some subtle way. I can't speak to a Unity experience, but I can address the internal logic or absence thereof. You say it was not a personal desire. Then you say you forced Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Robin3:Personal coercion is just concentrated universal coercion. My dear Share: Pray, tell me what act that you have ever seen performed by a human being was not 'personal'? Tell me one. The sense I had was that the cosmic intelligence that was computing my actions was inexorably driving this show-down with Maharishi, and the personal Robin was just a witness to this drama. The cosmic intelligence in me was forcing the cosmic intelligence in Maharishi to commit himself. This sounds personal. Well *that* certainly--your comment--sounds personal. Because it *is* personal. But you see, Share, the intelligences behind making me enlightened--and, I would contend, making Maharishi enlightened--*these intelligences are very personal*. There is no impersonal intelligence or reality in the universe. *Everything is infinitely personal*--from where I see it. So, in a sense, your intuition was correct; the intelligences behind Maharishis Unity Consciousness were doing one thing, whereas the intelligences behind Robin's Unity Consciousness were doing another thing--*even though these were the same intelligences*! But there is one thing we are leaving out here: The creator of all these intelligences, even the mischievous ones that make persons enlightened--or think they are enlightened. That being too (being very personal) has his reasonsbut then, as Paul said: Who has ever known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? I only say, Share, that my actions vis-a-vis Maharish--at all times--were subject to and subjugated by my Unity Consciousness--and this was always experienced to be, ultimately at least, under the aegis of cosmic intelligence. I would say things, do things, that I would never dream of doing before I was enlightened--I literally had no control even over my body: if cosmic intelligence wanted me to stand up, I would find myself standing up. If I was supposed to speak, I would speakand the words that came out of my mouth were not experienced to have been thought out first by myselfand how many times I was shocked by what I said! Robin2: Furthermore, if that intelligence was impersonal, then Maharishi, indeed the whole cosmos, would have been subsumed in it including the clamouring governors. In the emotional healing comment I was expressing why my personal agenda was no longer compatible with the movement's. Perhaps you were seeking some other kind of resolution. snip Share1: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. Robin2: Is this a discussion you really want to have, Share? I will just stipulate that Paul baby didn't
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: [...] Do you really think it's *ethical* for an organization that claims to have the secret to achieving world peace, and that *clearly* has the money to fund such an effort themselves, to not do so? If so, please explain your reasons for believing this. I still don't see the clearly here. Still playing dodgeball. I am disappointed. *Assume* that the TMO had all the money it needed to fund as many buttbouncers as it claims it needs to achieve world peace. Is there *any* reason that you can think of that would be valid for not paying for it themselves? Other than they're trying to arrange a permanent facility, no. But they are. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, iranitea no_reply@ wrote: Dear Iranitea, Multiple Personality. I was diagnosed recently, and have been fighting it. Robin, don't fight it. Because which Robin would fight it, and would all the other Robins agree? Try to take them into the boat rather. Robin0, Robin1, Robin2, Robin3, Robin4, and now (if you read my conversation with Share) Robin5 (Brahman Consciousness)I actually experience myself coming in and going out into all of these six forms of Robin alternately, iranitea. Mind you, when I am in one of these states of consciousness I have a particular view of another state of Robin; for instance the RobinOhe was still in waking state; and could only dream about BC (Robin5). But sometimes Robin5 looks nostalgically back at Robin-1 (before LSD): that guy is, if you really want to know the truth, who my shrink wants me to get back to. And I think him right in this. (Actually it is a sheand she's very beautifulOh, my: but now we are into another problem: RobinR (Robin Romantic)but he has been with all the other seven Robins. Robin-1, Robin0, Robin1 and so on.) Yes RobinRomantic, he must be a twin of RobinN (RobinNostalgic) Are you wanting a fight here, iranitea? Me? No! I can't take it up with 7 Robins. Why can't you just be nice and show us you are becoming the Selfinstead of faking us out by displaying so prominently all the earmarks of the little self you are trying to get rid of? Sorry, I am just trying to make some sense out of you. Sucking up to Buck, are you? Yep, I like him. And I support what he is about. I am loving and honouring and respecting Buck. Yeah, I could use a transparency make-over. But what about Share Long? Where does she fit into the cosmos? She just fits fine wherever she may be. I am working on that one as you can see. No, iranitea, it all makes perfect sense: Why there are seven Robins, is the same reason why there are 330 millions gods in Hinduism, or, to speak more conservatively: There is no second God, nor a third, nor is even a fourth spoken of There is no fifth God or a sixth nor is even a seventh mentioned. There is no eighth God, nor a ninth. Nothing is spoken about a tenth even. This unique power is in itself. That Lord is only one, the only omnipresent. It is one and the only one. Atharva Veda 13.4.2 19-20 Oh, nice, I didn't know that one. What about the trinity? I am aware, in my seven states of Robin simultaneouslyor as my poor (but very pretty) psychoanalyst puts it: my Multiple Personalityof essentially being The Lord [as] only oneI am the one and the only one. I know this by direct experience, iranitea, and you are just trying to bring me back into ignorance and Maya and trying to fuck with my mind. I am enlightened! Don't you know that by now, iranitea? Now, which Robin is saying this? WHO says that I AM enlightened? Obviously not Robin3 or Robin4, also not Robin-1. It could only be Robin0, Robin2 or Robin5, possibly also RobinR Sure I resort to mysticism but maybe I don't. Maybe I am just playing at being seven Robins. And maybe I am not. Maybe I created myself*and even created YOU, iranitea*and maybe I did not (probably not, as a matter of fact). Enjoy the mystical, iranitea: it's what it's all about after all. And in the final analysis what does it matter how we quarrel here on FFL? We are, after all, only the Self. You and me, iranitea: *We are the same*! Hmmm.. Life obviously is infinitely innocent and infinitely ironic. Don't you see this, iranitea? Yes! I am one of the Hindu gods using the universe as my playground. Just like you, iranitea. I see what you are doing! Wink-wink. But do the readers here at FFL? We won't tell them, iranitea. Or will we? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM72iWami9M Iranitea: And, of course, I had many experiences after. So I cannot fee obliged my whole life to one particular experience, and let it enclose my life in one particular pattern. The same is true for you Robin, quite obviously and even much more dramatically, but I cannot achieve the kind of compartmentalization you are making with respect to all the different Robins in your personal history. To me it seems there is a Robin1, a Robin2, a Robin3 and a Robin4 up until 5 maybe, all of them are fairly intact, lets call Robin1 the Robin who as a TB teacher and just newly enlightened, Robin2 the Robin of the seminars at FF and whatever happened there, the Robin3 the one who read Aquinas and became converted to Catholicism, and Robin4 is the post modern, post catholic Robin. There is also Robin0, the one who experimented with LSD (which I never took). Robin4 tells us that the whole TM trip as a deception, and illusion, and side by side in the same post
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Â Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? Â In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. Â Â They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them. Generally I agree with this. My only comment is to ask how much of that stockpile of money is liquid. 3.5 billion would yield at 3%, 105 million a year. That would take care of a lot. It would have to be invested in equities and corporate bonds, not the low interest of government securities that are current. If the money is mostly in land, its not going to generate cash unless it is leased out to paying customers. The amount of available cash is probably considerably less than that total. And how much of that land is being siphoned off to private parties is another consideration.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
I agree - so why not just hit the stated mark of 2,000 flyers and move on from there? From: sparaig lengli...@cox.net To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 5:58 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Â Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? Â In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. Â Â They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, Of course, it isn't disinformation. It's a perspective that differs from Barry's. (Note that Barry is the one who complains loudly that his perspectives are called lies by those with different perspectives. That's actually a fantasy of his--it doesn't happen--but we can see where it originates: in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about.) The difference in perspective hinges on the fact that the TMO is very heavily involved both in bringing in the pundits from India and in Howard Settle's subsidy program for full-time dome participants. The funding itself comes from donations, but neither project could be carried out if the TMO weren't quite serious about achieving the purportedly critical dome numbers. Of course, it isn't the least bit unusual for a well- endowed organization with a mission to ask for donations to fund specific projects. Nobody with any sense looks askance at that approach. what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Lawson's not taking advantage of me. I'm just stating the obvious. I am thinking this AM that I do tend to throw the baby out with the bath water when I detect what I deem to be hypocrisy, which works against me *personally* in many regards, as there is always hypocrisy when interpreted through the human experience. We are all hypocritical. Does one discount all the beautiful philosophical treatise in the world because of the who, or what that is stating them? Of course not. One looks that them in the context they were created and judges them based on their value to our personal existence or based on our assessment of their value to mankind. From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:18 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
snip .in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about. My question is always...Barry, do you see the hypocrisy in your own behavior? Not that you don't have a right to it, ..but are you even aware of your own hypocrisy? :) From: authfriend jst...@panix.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, Of course, it isn't disinformation. It's a perspective that differs from Barry's. (Note that Barry is the one who complains loudly that his perspectives are called lies by those with different perspectives. That's actually a fantasy of his--it doesn't happen--but we can see where it originates: in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about.) The difference in perspective hinges on the fact that the TMO is very heavily involved both in bringing in the pundits from India and in Howard Settle's subsidy program for full-time dome participants. The funding itself comes from donations, but neither project could be carried out if the TMO weren't quite serious about achieving the purportedly critical dome numbers. Of course, it isn't the least bit unusual for a well- endowed organization with a mission to ask for donations to fund specific projects. Nobody with any sense looks askance at that approach. what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Welcome back Judy. It just hasn't been the same without you. FFL has been like a bowl of chili without the chili powder and beans. Plus, some of the horses got out of the corral while you were gone and now I see you are saddled up and ready to bring 'em on home. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, Of course, it isn't disinformation. It's a perspective that differs from Barry's. (Note that Barry is the one who complains loudly that his perspectives are called lies by those with different perspectives. That's actually a fantasy of his--it doesn't happen--but we can see where it originates: in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about.) The difference in perspective hinges on the fact that the TMO is very heavily involved both in bringing in the pundits from India and in Howard Settle's subsidy program for full-time dome participants. The funding itself comes from donations, but neither project could be carried out if the TMO weren't quite serious about achieving the purportedly critical dome numbers. Of course, it isn't the least bit unusual for a well- endowed organization with a mission to ask for donations to fund specific projects. Nobody with any sense looks askance at that approach. what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Yeah, and while she was gone, we were kicking Barry's ass real good! (Somebody has to do it.) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: Welcome back Judy. It just hasn't been the same without you. FFL has been like a bowl of chili without the chili powder and beans. Plus, some of the horses got out of the corral while you were gone and now I see you are saddled up and ready to bring 'em on home. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. They have imported about 1,000 Vedic PUndits, and pay Americans $800/month to participate full time (8 hours/day 7 days/week) for at least a month. I'd say they are pretty serious. Just so that Emily is not swayed by this disinformation, Of course, it isn't disinformation. It's a perspective that differs from Barry's. (Note that Barry is the one who complains loudly that his perspectives are called lies by those with different perspectives. That's actually a fantasy of his--it doesn't happen--but we can see where it originates: in his own propensity to do exactly what he complains about.) The difference in perspective hinges on the fact that the TMO is very heavily involved both in bringing in the pundits from India and in Howard Settle's subsidy program for full-time dome participants. The funding itself comes from donations, but neither project could be carried out if the TMO weren't quite serious about achieving the purportedly critical dome numbers. Of course, it isn't the least bit unusual for a well- endowed organization with a mission to ask for donations to fund specific projects. Nobody with any sense looks askance at that approach. what she means by they and what Lawson means by they are completely different. I suspect that by they Emily meant the TM organization per se, the entity that has been estimated by The Illustrated Weekly of India to have a net worth of 3.5 billion dollars. Given that amount of capital, and given the importance the organization *claims* to place on getting large numbers of Yogic Flyers together to do their thang for world peace, her proposal seems very logical -- Put your money where your mouth is. *In constrast*, what Lawson is talking about are two programs paid for entirely by donations begged or demanded from TMers. The program that pays for people to buttbounce full-time for $800 per month was paid for *entirely* by one wealthy TMer. The pundits were similarly funded by donations from well-meaning (and yes, idealistic) TMers. As far as I know, the TM organization itself, sitting on top of all that wealth, *has not spent a penny of its own money* to achieve its own goals. This is a policy that goes back to the very beginnings of the TM movement. Maharishi was almost *never* willing to spend his own money on his own projects. He always found a way to beg the money for them from his followers, or in his worst moments *extort* the money for them. (What else would you call the frantic pleas for money some time before he died in which he declared outright that the world would end if it wasn't raised.) I think Emily has a point. If the TMO 1) actually believed that its programs could bring about world peace, and 2) were sitting on top of sufficient financial assets to put those beliefs to the test, wouldn't their failure to do so paint them as hypocritical at the very least, and downright mercenary at worst? Lawson knows all this. He was taking advantage of Emily *not* knowing it to spin things in such a way as to make it seem as if the TM organization *itself* paid for the efforts he listed. That isn't true, and has never been. The TMO does *NOT* pay for these things; the same well- intentioned suckers who have been paying for Maharishi's dreams since the beginning of the movement paid for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: Welcome back Judy. It just hasn't been the same without you. FFL has been like a bowl of chili without the chili powder and beans. Thank you. At least some folks have avoided indigestion this past week, then. Plus, some of the horses got out of the corral while you were gone and now I see you are saddled up and ready to bring 'em on home. I cannot *believe* some of what I've read as I've been catching up. How certain people can write so many things they and every reader here knows aren't true boggles the mind. What's the point? A lot of those horses that got out are so lame they aren't going to get far, but they're not really worth rounding up. I would like to say for the record that I did not post out, as has been gleefully suggested, because I lost track of my post count, or because I was taunted. I knew I was at 50 posts. I had some free time around a half an hour before the post count turned on Friday, so I wrote a response to iranitea, planning to hold onto it until the Post Count went up at 8-ish. But when I was done, I reflexively clicked Send, and that was literally all she wrote, until today at least. But it was a good post; it certainly succeeded in shutting iranitea up in the discussion we were having. Nor, by the way, did I taunt Vaj for posting out, as Barry disingenuously claimed. I taunted Barry and iranitea for having lost the third leg of their stool for a week. And I did it not minutes before I posted out--as Barry disingenuously claimed--but five hours before that. Interestingly, my taunt of Barry and iranitea was not quoted by anyone else, and it was at the very end of my post--which means Barry had to have read the whole thing in its original form. So much for his repeated boast that he never reads my posts. We all knew that was a lie anyway, but it's nice to have it on the record.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Now here are the hot peppers in those enchiladas that I love to eat. Pass me some more. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: Welcome back Judy. It just hasn't been the same without you. FFL has been like a bowl of chili without the chili powder and beans. Thank you. At least some folks have avoided indigestion this past week, then. Plus, some of the horses got out of the corral while you were gone and now I see you are saddled up and ready to bring 'em on home. I cannot *believe* some of what I've read as I've been catching up. How certain people can write so many things they and every reader here knows aren't true boggles the mind. What's the point? A lot of those horses that got out are so lame they aren't going to get far, but they're not really worth rounding up. I would like to say for the record that I did not post out, as has been gleefully suggested, because I lost track of my post count, or because I was taunted. I knew I was at 50 posts. I had some free time around a half an hour before the post count turned on Friday, so I wrote a response to iranitea, planning to hold onto it until the Post Count went up at 8-ish. But when I was done, I reflexively clicked Send, and that was literally all she wrote, until today at least. But it was a good post; it certainly succeeded in shutting iranitea up in the discussion we were having. Nor, by the way, did I taunt Vaj for posting out, as Barry disingenuously claimed. I taunted Barry and iranitea for having lost the third leg of their stool for a week. And I did it not minutes before I posted out--as Barry disingenuously claimed--but five hours before that. Interestingly, my taunt of Barry and iranitea was not quoted by anyone else, and it was at the very end of my post--which means Barry had to have read the whole thing in its original form. So much for his repeated boast that he never reads my posts. We all knew that was a lie anyway, but it's nice to have it on the record.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
The Dome meditation numbers: http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies/ The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Assembly at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. With those anti-religious TM guidelines about access to these other astrological systems or religious people or indeed about hosting them, then one would worry for TM and the Dome meditation. Those paragraphs really don't need to be in the guidelines for running the Domes. They certainly could be changed or deleted. This would help people a lot from having to look over their shoulder if they have a valid Dome badge or would like to apply for one if they are meditators. There are very few TM-virgins anymore and there's a lot of people in the Dome who meditate in a fear for their status for being found out. It's the way it is and it's a communal problem with the Dome meditation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: I remained utterly devoted to Maharishi right up until I determined that my enlightenment was a form of profound mystical deceitfulness, a perfect hallucination. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQn9HqMQ70
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
just plain Share: From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Dear Share, I think I was unclear in making my intent known to you in writing that second letter to you. I chose to address you, because of the receptivity and positivity that is part of your spiritual approach to persons and reality. But I was simply taking the opportunity—this had nothing to do with you personally—to explain how I felt that my own behaviour (when I came to Fairfield) vis-a-vis Maharishi and MIU was not some attempt to introduce a different teaching or technique, and therefore could not—at least from my own point of view—be used as an example of some form of spirituality other than and in some sense at variance with anything that Maharishi was teaching. Indeed I made it my objective to force Maharishi to commit himself to a judgment of the validity of the knowledge that came out of my enlightenment. Share: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. R: I had argued in my previous post (also addressed to you because of your 'charity'—See Saint Paul) on behalf of the enforcers of Dome policies. Now to do this might seem unseemly, given how the officials at MIU reacted to my seminars in Fairfield back in 1982-83. I thought the readers at FFL would possibly make the assumption: Here is this guy defending Bevan and the actions of Dome officials and he himself became a renegade from the purity of the teaching, and tried to set himself up as a Guru against Maharishi. Whereas this was decidedly not my intention or belief, even though this was the deliberate judgment of the authorities at MIU. Share: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. R: There are a lot of things I regret. If a student at MIU felt, in retrospect, they would have rather stayed away from me and completed their education at MIU, that would indeed constitute a source of concern for me. But what was opened up in their experience, and where most of these persons ended up, I doubt anyone who took their chances with me feels on balance they lost rather than gained from the experience. But this is a very complex issue. And I have no hard data to support this conclusion. Share: I'm glad to hear that people gained rather than lost from association with you. So no need to regret then. I believe this is a learning place. We're here to make mistakes. And learn from them. So make amends if possible and live your life as well as possible. That's good enough. Also, even leaders are on a learning curve. Best not to expect perfection from them either. R: Buck was making his case. I weighed in on the side of the authorities. This would seem bizarre given that I was considered at the time to be the heretic par excellence. But I never thought of opposing Maharishi in the least; I was confident I was doing his will, and only yearned to bring about a reconciliation with Bevan and the officials at MIU, something I knew could only happen through the expressed judgment of Maharishi himself. Share: Did you ever read Eric Hofer's True Believer? According to him, the biggest heretics can become the biggest TBs. Oh, how I'd love to see your jyotish chart... Share: As for James Holmes, I'm sure there are souls way more evolved than me who are praying for him, etc. R: Shall I return to our big conversation, Share? You are walking that tightrope across Niagara Falls and it doesn't seem as if you are going to fall—and I see no safety harness. Pretty amazing feat there, Share, baby! Share: Waaa! Baby wearing water wings I hope (-: Then, RC, have your criteria been met for returning to personal love universal love chat? Hmmm... Ok, off to first weight training. Osteo in hips just diagnosed. Must do preventative stuff. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Dear Robin, Gosh, you don't have to explain yourself at all to me. I believe what you say and I'm content to engage with you as you are now. I wasn't at MIU when you were there. Of course I heard a few stories. And I've read some of the emails here. Also my last X is a Canadian gov. What can I say? Your life has been much more eventful than mine. Even your inner life. I'm sorry if those events, inner and outer, caused you or others unnecessary suffering. I would imagine that as a leader, you would regret causing a student to lose something
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal? Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world? In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:31 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices The Dome meditation numbers: http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies/ The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Assembly at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. With those anti-religious TM guidelines about access to these other astrological systems or religious people or indeed about hosting them, then one would worry for TM and the Dome meditation. Those paragraphs really don't need to be in the guidelines for running the Domes. They certainly could be changed or deleted. This would help people a lot from having to look over their shoulder if they have a valid Dome badge or would like to apply for one if they are meditators. There are very few TM-virgins anymore and there's a lot of people in the Dome who meditate in a fear for their status for being found out. It's the way it is and it's a communal problem with the Dome meditation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: just plain Share: From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:47 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Dear Share, I think I was unclear in making my intent known to you in writing that second letter to you. I chose to address you, because of the receptivity and positivity that is part of your spiritual approach to persons and reality. But I was simply taking the opportunitythis had nothing to do with you personallyto explain how I felt that my own behaviour (when I came to Fairfield) vis-a-vis Maharishi and MIU was not some attempt to introduce a different teaching or technique, and therefore could notat least from my own point of viewbe used as an example of some form of spirituality other than and in some sense at variance with anything that Maharishi was teaching. Indeed I made it my objective to force Maharishi to commit himself to a judgment of the validity of the knowledge that came out of my enlightenment. Share1: Could it be that your knowledge is valid within the context of your enlightenment but maybe not useful to Maharishi and his vision? My own experience was that I realized that the emotional healing was not a priority within the TMO. So I went elsewhere for that. Robin2: Not exactly sure what you mean here, Share. No, if you are asking me to speculate on the reasons for why Maharishi, after seven years of never criticizing medespite the clamour from his governors, finally uttered four sounds which did not indicate he approved of what I was doing there in Fairfieldthat is a question that merits a separate post. What you are not taking into consideration is: *This was not a personal desire of Robin's* that Maharishi officially recognize my enlightenment and its immediate and profound application to every TM Governorand therefore to Maharishi's very Teaching; no, Share, the intelligence which had created my enlightenment and which had control over my actions, that intelligence was pushing me into this confrontation and resolution with Maharishi. I had the sense, throughout those seven years, that Maharishi and I were performing a kind of dance of very subtle mental intelligence; but finally, I forced him to commit himself. And then there was a form of superficial peaceeven though the reality remained the sameand my connection with Maharishi was what it had always been. I was not seeking emotional healingalthough I admit I don't quite see the connection of this comment to what I said in what I have said to you. Robin1:: I had argued in my previous post (also addressed to you because of your 'charitySee Saint Paul) on behalf of the enforcers of Dome policies. Now to do this might seem unseemly, given how the officials at MIU reacted to my seminars in Fairfield back in 1982-83. I thought the readers at FFL would possibly make the assumption: Here is this guy defending Bevan and the actions of Dome officials and he himself became a renegade from the purity of the teaching, and tried to set himself up as a Guru against Maharishi. Whereas this was decidedly not my intention or belief, even though this was the deliberate judgment of the authorities at MIU. Share1: St. Paul! Tho my birthday falls on his feast day, I sometimes wonder if he wasn't responsible for the early church becoming, well, less about Christ and more about rules and structures. Robin2: Is this a discussion you really want to have, Share? I will just stipulate that Paul baby didn't get Christ wrongChrist made certain of that by knocking him down and blinding him on the Road to Damascus. Before this he was standing around urging his brethren to make those stones draw blood from Saint Stephen's uncovered head. Admittedly he would be a somewhat strident poster on FFL; but he was brilliant, brave, and trueGood choice by Christ to forcibly recruit him to the good side. Christ destroyed his boundaries and his prejudices in a lightning moment; after that he was aggressive as a missionary, but secretly docile to his Master. I hope we both get to meet him some day, Sharehe chose not to reincarnate by the way: He wanted the heaven thing, solidly inside his first-person ontology. Too bad we can't e-mail him right now. :-) But I will grant you that Paul, he was pretty big on them there rules and regulationsbut for us fallen souls, they were, until you got to heaven, pretty indispensable. Who have you seen achieve anything without obeying rules and regulations, Share? The only rationale for ignoring rules and regulations is to be beyond those rules and regulations and in direct contact with Natural Law, with the intrinsic laws and regulations of the universelike physics. Like mathematics. Like astronomy. Like architecture. Likelet me say itlove. Hi, Share: did you see Emily's comment
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: If this is such a priority and they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just bring in meditators from other countries to reach the goal?  Are there not 2000 flyers in the entire world?  In the name of global peace, I would think that many of the idealistic and altruistic nature would volunteer even to pick up and move.   Em, Yes that would make sense. No, proly won't happen. Things seem to have got irreconcilable between the movement.org and the old meditating community for getting more meditators to come to the Domes. Hence the project of out-sourcing meditation to young Indian boys brought from India to FF to achieve the numbers has become easier. It is old TM history playing out. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:31 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  The Dome meditation numbers: http://invincibleamerica.org/tallies/ The immediate urgent priority for national invincibility and world peace is to join the Invincible America Assembly at MUM. Only 2000 Flyers in Fairfield/Maharishi Vedic City will bring security to America and defuse the precarious escalation of conflict in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. With those anti-religious TM guidelines about access to these other astrological systems or religious people or indeed about hosting them, then one would worry for TM and the Dome meditation. Those paragraphs really don't need to be in the guidelines for running the Domes. They certainly could be changed or deleted. This would help people a lot from having to look over their shoulder if they have a valid Dome badge or would like to apply for one if they are meditators. There are very few TM-virgins anymore and there's a lot of people in the Dome who meditate in a fear for their status for being found out. It's the way it is and it's a communal problem with the Dome meditation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system? à Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices à Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc. Share in town and in Dome... From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Not so simple if you really look at it. Look at the rules, look at the reasons behind why those rules might be put into place, look at the reaction or non-reaction of those dome-badge wearers who are effected by these rules. Study for a minute the ramifications of these types of rules and you will start to see that it is not so simple and that people who adhere to these policies are actively encouraging this kind of mind police/controlling/manipulating/fear-provoking tyrannical bullshit. Not my bag, baby. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people, What have you given up to be in the dome? they would look at you blankly. People give up their time, that's all. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Not so simple if you really look at it. Look at the rules, look at the reasons behind why those rules might be put into place, look at the reaction or non-reaction of those dome-badge wearers who are effected by these rules. Study for a minute the ramifications of these types of rules and you will start to see that it is not so simple and that people who adhere to these policies are actively encouraging this kind of mind police/controlling/manipulating/fear-provoking tyrannical bullshit. Not my bag, baby. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Do you also feel that Chick-Fil-A restaurants, which have gone on record lately as having a *very* anti-gay stance, should be able to discriminate against gay customers, and refuse to serve them? They own the restaurants, after all, and thus make the rules. How 'bout restaurants or other establishments in New York who feel that they don't like the practices or philosophy of Orthodox Jews. Should they be allowed to make the rules and be able to refuse to serve them as well? How would you feel if the manufacturer of your car stipulated that you had to have it serviced *only* by one of their dealers, and that going to see any other mechanic would invalidate your warranty and allow them to write you (and your car) off? I'm just curious as to how far your they own the property so they get to make the rules philosophy goes. SHOULD they be able to discriminate on the basis of religious practice? What happens if tomorrow they decide that it's not just competing pundits and astrologers who are taboo, but seeing medical doctors? After all, we all know that Ayurveda is much better. The parallels people are drawing to the Stazi are correct, by the way, in that both organizations felt that it was their RIGHT to conduct investigations into people's lives and how they chose to live them. Comparisons to Nazis (which as far as I could tell no one made but you) are incorrect because in my book the Nazis were amateurs. If you want an accurate parallel, you have to go back to the Inquisition. The purpose of *their* trials and investigations was the same as the TMO's. It *wasn't* to punish the transgressors themselves. It was to stage a public display of punishing them, to scare other people into not doing what the transgressors did to get punished. This philosophy is right there in print in the manuals of the Inquisition. I suggest that the Inquisition mindset is a *very* accurate parallel to what the dome administrators are doing. And that they're doing it for the same reasons that the Inquisitors did. When your religion or spiritual practice can no longer attract and hold believers on its own merits, you have to scare and intimidate them into sticking around.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc.  Share in town and in Dome... Dear Share, My take on all this policing of persons who go outside of the spiritual resources sanctioned by the TM Movement is pretty simple. Those who devise and enforce these rules (which originated in Maharishi himself) are going by their first experience of what TM and Maharishi represented: This is The Way; there is no other way that compares to the TM-Maharishi way. TM is defined as the simplest and most natural technique to take one to the deepest level of one's very beingthere is no other practice which is defined mechanically and objectively such as to afford the most efficient way of transcendingthere are no competitors here. The most profound realization one has when one is made a teacher of TM by Maharishi, is: this is It. There isn't anything else. And if TM cannot do what it says it doestake one to the level of pure consciousnessthen we are selling a product which does not do what we say it does. Any compromise on this policy of guarding the purity of the teaching will mean the gradual corruption of TM and the dilution of Maharishi's Teaching, That is one thing that Maharishi was able to do that no other teacher in our lifetime has been able to do: Make us experience that he was the very best, the only one, and that what he was giving to us was coming directly from reality or God or the source of creative intelligence. Any flexibility, reasonableness, tolerance here just makes no sense at allunless the people at the top are giving up their claim to the exclusiveness of TM as being the most beautiful way to transcend that is available anywhere. I refer readers (who have done TM) to their first TM experience. How it happened; what the process was like; how they experienced the mantra working inside of them. The very miraculous innocenceand profundityof this experience signifies: No competition will be allowedbecause what could produce an experience equal to the one you first had when you started TM? I don't say the policy is justified on the basis of TM being what Maharishi made us believe it was, and what our experiencesat least for awhileconfirmed, because of course I don't think that TM and Maharishi have continued to get the grace and support which would indicate that reality and God still think they are It. But in terms of the truth of one's devotion to one's Master, and Maharishi brilliant and unchallengeable authority to persuade us of his preeminent position and status in Creationand his gift to us in the form of his spiritual technologywhat the TMO is doing in being careful about vetting persons who meditate in the Dome is not only reasonable, it is entirely truthful to their conscience, their understanding of the will of Maharishi, and their own sense of what is the right thing to do. This behaviour on the part of those who wield this authority over meditators is irreproachable in my estimation. Of course if these persons believed that there was another path to God, to the Self, to enlightenment, then the enforcement of these policies would be subject to moral scrutiny. Inside the context of what they deem as truth and the means of not betraying the wishes of their Master, they are behaving entirely appropriatelyThere simply is no argument to be made against them whatsoever. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
that reality and God still think they are It. But in terms of the truth of one's devotion to one's Master, and Maharishi brilliant and unchallengeable authority to persuade us of his preeminent position and status in Creationand his gift to us in the form of his spiritual technologywhat the TMO is doing in being careful about vetting persons who meditate in the Dome is not only reasonable, it is entirely truthful to their conscience, their understanding of the will of Maharishi, and their own sense of what is the right thing to do. This behaviour on the part of those who wield this authority over meditators is irreproachable in my estimation. Of course if these persons believed that there was another path to God, to the Self, to enlightenment, then the enforcement of these policies would be subject to moral scrutiny. Inside the context of what they deem as truth and the means of not betraying the wishes of their Master, they are behaving entirely appropriatelyThere simply is no argument to be made against them whatsoever. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people, What have you given up to be in the dome? they would look at you blankly. People give up their time, that's all. That is, apparently, all you feel you, personally, have given up so maybe you are not aware of what others feel they have had to abandon or have had to lie about or sneak around. It obviously works for you but I am not so sure you would be defending this kind of strange paranoiac atmosphere and sense of dread that some others obviously feel as a result of investigating other teachings. However, I will admit I know very little of all of this and am only responding based on the post I saw of Buck's. But what little I read there seemed to speak volumes of what goes on around there and I find it incredible. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Not so simple if you really look at it. Look at the rules, look at the reasons behind why those rules might be put into place, look at the reaction or non-reaction of those dome-badge wearers who are effected by these rules. Study for a minute the ramifications of these types of rules and you will start to see that it is not so simple and that people who adhere to these policies are actively encouraging this kind of mind police/controlling/manipulating/fear-provoking tyrannical bullshit. Not my bag, baby. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people, What have you given up to be in the dome? they would look at you blankly. People give up their time, that's all. That is, apparently, all you feel you, personally, have given up so maybe you are not aware of what others feel they have had to abandon or have had to lie about or sneak around. It obviously works for you but I am not so sure you would be defending this kind of strange paranoiac atmosphere and sense of dread that some others obviously feel as a result of investigating other teachings. However, I will admit I know very little of all of this and am only responding based on the post I saw of Buck's. But what little I read there seemed to speak volumes of what goes on around there and I find it incredible. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Not so simple if you really look at it. Look at the rules, look at the reasons behind why those rules might be put into place, look at the reaction or non-reaction of those dome-badge wearers who are effected by these rules. Study for a minute the ramifications of these types of rules and you will start to see that it is not so simple and that people who adhere to these policies are actively encouraging this kind of mind police/controlling/manipulating/fear-provoking tyrannical bullshit. Not my bag, baby. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Bingo !
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Had you read the exchange a little more carefully, you would have seen that it was another poster who made the comparison to the Nazis. I merely commented on it. As to the questions you ask, I think that organizations should comply with the law, but I am unaware of any law that the TM movement is breaking with its dome policies. As far as I can tell, there is a document that people sign when they accept a dome badge that sets out the conditions under which the badge is issued to them. If people don't adhere to those conditions, they can have little complaint if a decision is made to exclude them. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Do you also feel that Chick-Fil-A restaurants, which have gone on record lately as having a *very* anti-gay stance, should be able to discriminate against gay customers, and refuse to serve them? They own the restaurants, after all, and thus make the rules. How 'bout restaurants or other establishments in New York who feel that they don't like the practices or philosophy of Orthodox Jews. Should they be allowed to make the rules and be able to refuse to serve them as well? How would you feel if the manufacturer of your car stipulated that you had to have it serviced *only* by one of their dealers, and that going to see any other mechanic would invalidate your warranty and allow them to write you (and your car) off? I'm just curious as to how far your they own the property so they get to make the rules philosophy goes. SHOULD they be able to discriminate on the basis of religious practice? What happens if tomorrow they decide that it's not just competing pundits and astrologers who are taboo, but seeing medical doctors? After all, we all know that Ayurveda is much better. The parallels people are drawing to the Stazi are correct, by the way, in that both organizations felt that it was their RIGHT to conduct investigations into people's lives and how they chose to live them. Comparisons to Nazis (which as far as I could tell no one made but you) are incorrect because in my book the Nazis were amateurs. If you want an accurate parallel, you have to go back to the Inquisition. The purpose of *their* trials and investigations was the same as the TMO's. It *wasn't* to punish the transgressors themselves. It was to stage a public display of punishing them, to scare other people into not doing what the transgressors did to get punished. This philosophy is right there in print in the manuals of the Inquisition. I suggest that the Inquisition mindset is a *very* accurate parallel to what the dome administrators are doing. And that they're doing it for the same reasons that the Inquisitors did. When your religion or spiritual practice can no longer attract and hold believers on its own merits, you have to scare and intimidate them into sticking around.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. No debates, you obviously love it there and are very content to live within the rules. I think I'll stay in British Columbia. I'm not sure Fairfield would know what to do with me anyway. I've already been kicked off that campus more than once and banned permanently but it might be interesting to see what they could come up with in 2012. Hmmm... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people, What have you given up to be in the dome? they would look at you blankly. People give up their time, that's all. That is, apparently, all you feel you, personally, have given up so maybe you are not aware of what others feel they have had to abandon or have had to lie about or sneak around. It obviously works for you but I am not so sure you would be defending this kind of strange paranoiac atmosphere and sense of dread that some others obviously feel as a result of investigating other teachings. However, I will admit I know very little of all of this and am only responding based on the post I saw of Buck's. But what little I read there seemed to speak volumes of what goes on around there and I find it incredible. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Not so simple if you really look at it. Look at the rules, look at the reasons behind why those rules might be put into place, look at the reaction or non-reaction of those dome-badge wearers who are
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Actually, I live within my own rules, which are not those of the TM movement. I do not go to the dome and do not have a valid badge, although I have no reason to believe I would be denied one, should I decide to apply. I just happen to think that the movement is entitled to set its own policies for dome attendance, and if some people find them unreasonable they can choose to stay away. If some people think the TM movement is illegally excluding certain people, then it is up to them to make a legal challenge. If such a challenge were to be upheld, then obviously the movement would have to reexamine its policies, but I doubt whether it would be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. No debates, you obviously love it there and are very content to live within the rules. I think I'll stay in British Columbia. I'm not sure Fairfield would know what to do with me anyway. I've already been kicked off that campus more than once and banned permanently but it might be interesting to see what they could come up with in 2012. Hmmm... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people, What have you given up to be in the dome? they would look at you blankly. People give up their time, that's all. That is, apparently, all you feel you, personally, have given up so maybe you are not aware of what others feel they have had to abandon or have had to lie about or sneak around. It obviously
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: Actually, I live within my own rules, which are not those of the TM movement. I do not go to the dome and do not have a valid badge, although I have no reason to believe I would be denied one, should I decide to apply. I just happen to think that the movement is entitled to set its own policies for dome attendance, and if some people find them unreasonable they can choose to stay away. If some people think the TM movement is illegally excluding certain people, then it is up to them to make a legal challenge. If such a challenge were to be upheld, then obviously the movement would have to reexamine its policies, but I doubt whether it would be. Everything you say here is reasonable. I guess that is what I felt was lacking in Buck's post when he delineated some of the tactics and goings on with regard to dome admission etc. Not that Buck was unreasonable but the tactics, the mentality there of those who possess the power to exclude or include and for what reasons felt to me rather horrific. FYI, when I used the word Nazi I was actually referring to a more generic definition I found that defines 'Nazi' as, a harshly domineering, dictatorial, or intolerant person. I am also glad to know that you live by your own rules; for me, that means I have examined and continue to examine anew what I choose to embrace and uphold in my life in an ongoing way and it is subject to change at any moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. No debates, you obviously love it there and are very content to live within the rules. I think I'll stay in British Columbia. I'm not sure Fairfield would know what to do with me anyway. I've already been kicked off that campus more than once and banned permanently but it might be interesting to see what they could come up with in 2012. Hmmm... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
OMG! You sound Libertarian! From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Actually, I live within my own rules, which are not those of the TM movement. I do not go to the dome and do not have a valid badge, although I have no reason to believe I would be denied one, should I decide to apply. I just happen to think that the movement is entitled to set its own policies for dome attendance, and if some people find them unreasonable they can choose to stay away. If some people think the TM movement is illegally excluding certain people, then it is up to them to make a legal challenge. If such a challenge were to be upheld, then obviously the movement would have to reexamine its policies, but I doubt whether it would be. --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@... wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I have no intention of debating you further on this. What I like in your post is the sentence I will admit I know very little of all of this. Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. No debates, you obviously love it there and are very content to live within the rules. I think I'll stay in British Columbia. I'm not sure Fairfield would know what to do with me anyway. I've already been kicked off that campus more than once and banned permanently but it might be interesting to see what they could come up with in 2012. Hmmm... --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater no_reply@ wrote: --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I wondered how long it would be before the Nazis got dragged into it. Just one stop after the Stasi, it seems. I'm not sure about the Nazis getting dragged into it. Seems more like the dome police are emulating all sorts of tyrants through the ages and the comparison is a natural one. What other tyrants did you have in mind? The comparison is not a natural one at all, but a very silly one. I will define tyrants, in this case, as those who are in a position of power and who choose to exercise that power by attempting to control not only someone's movements but their choice of who to read, listen to or see that are spiritually different or at odds with what and who these tyrants believe someone should adhere to exclusively (TM). I believe it is tyrannical because they are determining in a simplistic and fundamentalist way, without understanding any of the complexity of what should go into determining a stance that they embrace, what others should do in their lives. I don't care if they think they are following MMY's, their Master's, desire that the TM teachings remain pure. It has nothing to do with keeping these teachings pure; just because someone doesn't expose themselves to other spiritual paths does not necessarily mean that they will be pure or unadulterated in their practices with regard to TM and the Siddhis. But, I am only going by Buck's description here of what seems to be a very unhealthy situation in good old Fairfield I-O-I-AY. I saw a bit of this when I was involved with Robin, the kind of knee-jerk TM reaction to anyone showing the gumption and (sometimes crazy) things we got up to that went against the movement norm. The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. No, it is not free. People obviously give up a lot of things to be able to have one. I'm afraid you are incorrect. As I said, the dome badge is free. And I reiterate that nothing is free, least of all this dome badge. As you are well aware, I am not talking about money here. And the movement pays for the upkeep of the dome, including the nice air conditioning that people enjoy. The movement is like the government. They survive thanks to the monies generated by selling other services or charging for things which the people have paid for (in the government's case by implementing taxes). This is not some benevolent entity who has just chosen to shower freebies on all those willing to give up other personal rights. But that is not my argument. There is nothing wrong with charging, somewhere along the line, for what ultimately provides a service to many (air conditioned domes). No one is asked for any money. If you were to live here and ask people
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Though it seems so, I'm not sure it's as simple as all that. Yes, of course the movement can make rules in any way it wants. But perhaps when an organization is teaching a technique for becoming fully developed, one expects a lot of that organization. Such as to be well, at least more developed than average. From what others report, the movement is not always like this. Why? Because it's made up of flawed humans! Not only that, but flawed humans who are quite invested in being perfect or ideal. That mix can lead to a lot of problems. Being aware of it, being more comfortable with my own flaws, makes it a little easier to navigate. FWIW (-: From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:02 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: The TM movement owns the domes and pays for them. The dome badge is free. The movement therefore makes the rules, and it can make them any way it chooses. Those who don't like it don't have to go. It's really very simple. Bingo !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Dear Robin, Gosh, you don't have to explain yourself at all to me. I believe what you say and I'm content to engage with you as you are now. I wasn't at MIU when you were there. Of course I heard a few stories. And I've read some of the emails here. Also my last X is a Canadian gov. What can I say? Your life has been much more eventful than mine. Even your inner life. I'm sorry if those events, inner and outer, caused you or others unnecessary suffering. I would imagine that as a leader, you would regret causing a student to lose something important to them. But it's all water under the bridge now. You sound somewhat at peace with it all and I'm happy for you about that. I'm sure the world has need of your gifts. It's never too late to redeem anything and or make amends for any hurt. Or so I believe. But maybe I'm simply having an imperfect hallucination (-: Share From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices Dear Share, I should just say that in the case of myself I thought I was *completing Maharishi's Teaching*, that my enlightenment produced a context for individual metaphysical drama which had not been anticipated before I went up on that mountain in September 1976—But for all that, *was an innocent as TM*. Indeed, I felt that the form my enlightenment took—in terms of this theatre of individuation of the soul—was the fulfillment of the TM experience—the original one. Certainly when I began to act as a person in Unity, my experience was that the whole universe was getting behind my enlightenment project And I was very anxious, therefore, that Maharishi would eventually endorse what I was doing—explicitly, formally. I never thought of myself as deviating from the purity of the teaching. I thought I was taking the next evolutionary step within the context of TM and Maharishi. It didn't quite work out that way; but when persons were punished—expelled from MIU—for attending my seminars, I thought this was just the drama which would precede the eventual joyful consummation. I was wrong in every sense, of course. But I thought I should mention how I exempt myself from having been any kind of interloper or foreign influence within the TM Movement. I remained utterly devoted to Maharishi right up until I determined that my enlightenment was a form of profound mystical deceitfulness, a perfect hallucination. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc.  Share in town and in Dome... Dear Share, My take on all this policing of persons who go outside of the spiritual resources sanctioned by the TM Movement is pretty simple. Those who devise and enforce these rules (which originated in Maharishi himself) are going by their first experience of what TM and Maharishi represented: This is The Way; there is no other way that compares to the TM-Maharishi way. TM is defined as the simplest and most natural technique to take one to the deepest level of one's very being—there is no other practice which is defined mechanically and objectively such as to afford the most efficient way of transcending—there are no competitors here. The most profound realization one has when one is made a teacher of TM by Maharishi, is: this is It. There isn't anything else. And if TM cannot do what it says it does—take one to the level of pure consciousness—then we are selling a product which does not do what we say it does. Any compromise on this policy of guarding the purity of the teaching will mean the gradual corruption of TM and the dilution of Maharishi's Teaching, That is one thing that Maharishi was able to do
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Hi Ann and Buck, I'm baffled by all this. I was totally out of the Dome for 7 years, 2003 to 2010. During that time I openly participated in lots of stuff in FF, including Waking Down in Mutuality for about 3 years. But I had no trouble getting back into the Dome. No interrogation room, etc. Also through Amma's org, I've been having planetary pujas done for a while now plus use her jyotishis. Movement got too expensive and wanted a person to supply family info also. Too much of a hassle. And even when I was a grad student on campus, I was open about participating in David Deida tantric workshops. Again no interrogation room, no subtle threats, etc. All I can figure is that they let me alone because I'm just a sidha, not a gov. But I don't know for sure. Now that I'm back in the Dome, sometimes friends on campus aren't as friendly as they were. Sometimes that hurts. But I sort of understand. And I have friends in town. TSR dontcha know. Town Super Radiance. And jokingly means taking seminars regularly. OTOH, truth in jest, etc.  Share in town and in Dome... Share, it's true there are very few TM-virgins in the Domes. From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
who meditate in a fear of the guidelines. This hostage hold of true-believer preservationists is a sad influence on the Dome numbers that does not need to be there. The true-believers could also not confuse the Dome admission guidelines for the teaching. Maharishi changed the guidelines all the time as need would be. The TM-Rajas were left with that responsibility too. They have the power and authority to administrate as needs be. The Dome numbers are in a jeopardy to their guidelines. -Buck From: awoelflebater no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 11:02 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. With those anti-religious TM guidelines about access to these other astrological systems or religious people or indeed about hosting them, then one would worry for TM and the Dome meditation. Those paragraphs really don't need to be in the guidelines for running the Domes. They certainly could be changed or deleted. This would help people a lot from having to look over their shoulder if they have a valid Dome badge or would like to apply for one if they are meditators. There are very few TM-virgins anymore and there's a lot of people in the Dome who meditate in a fear for their status for being found out. It's the way it is and it's a communal problem with the Dome meditation. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Dear Share, I think I was unclear in making my intent known to you in writing that second letter to you. I chose to address you, because of the receptivity and positivity that is part of your spiritual approach to persons and reality. But I was simply taking the opportunitythis had nothing to do with you personallyto explain how I felt that my own behaviour (when I came to Fairfield) vis-a-vis Maharishi and MIU was not some attempt to introduce a different teaching or technique, and therefore could notat least from my own point of viewbe used as an example of some form of spirituality other than and in some sense at variance with anything that Maharishi was teaching. Indeed I made it my objective to force Maharishi to commit himself to a judgment of the validity of the knowledge that came out of my enlightenment. I had argued in my previous post (also addressed to you because of your 'charity'See Saint Paul) on behalf of the enforcers of Dome policies. Now to do this might seem unseemly, given how the officials at MIU reacted to my seminars in Fairfield back in 1982-83. I thought the readers at FFL would possibly make the assumption: Here is this guy defending Bevan and the actions of Dome officials and he himself became a renegade from the purity of the teaching, and tried to set himself up as a Guru against Maharishi. Whereas this was decidedly not my intention or belief, even though this was the deliberate judgment of the authorities at MIU. There are a lot of things I regret. If a student at MIU felt, in retrospect, they would have rather stayed away from me and completed their education at MIU, that would indeed constitute a source of concern for me. But what was opened up in their experience, and where most of these persons ended up, I doubt anyone who took their chances with me feels on balance they lost rather than gained from the experience. But this is a very complex issue. And I have no hard data to support this conclusion. Buck was making his case. I weighed in on the side of the authorities. This would seem bizarre given that I was considered at the time to be the heretic par excellence. But I never thought of opposing Maharishi in the least; I was confident I was doing his will, and only yearned to bring about a reconciliation with Bevan and the officials at MIU, something I knew could only happen through the expressed judgment of Maharishi himself. Shall I return to our big conversation, Share? You are walking that tightrope across Niagara Falls and it doesn't seem as if you are going to falland I see no safety harness. Pretty amazing feat there, Share, baby! Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Dear Robin, Gosh, you don't have to explain yourself at all to me. I believe what you say and I'm content to engage with you as you are now. I wasn't at MIU when you were there. Of course I heard a few stories. And I've read some of the emails here. Also my last X is a Canadian gov. What can I say? Your life has been much more eventful than mine. Even your inner life. I'm sorry if those events, inner and outer, caused you or others unnecessary suffering. I would imagine that as a leader, you would regret causing a student to lose something important to them. But it's all water under the bridge now. You sound somewhat at peace with it all and I'm happy for you about that. I'm sure the world has need of your gifts. It's never too late to redeem anything and or make amends for any hurt. Or so I believe. But maybe I'm simply having an imperfect hallucination (-: Share From: Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:37 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Dear Share, I should just say that in the case of myself I thought I was *completing Maharishi's Teaching*, that my enlightenment produced a context for individual metaphysical drama which had not been anticipated before I went up on that mountain in September 1976âBut for all that, *was an innocent as TM*. Indeed, I felt that the form my enlightenment tookâin terms of this theatre of individuation of the soulâwas the fulfillment of the TM experienceâthe original one. Certainly when I began to act as a person in Unity, my experience was that the whole universe was getting behind my enlightenment project And I was very anxious, therefore, that Maharishi would eventually endorse what I was doingâexplicitly, formally. I never thought of myself as deviating from the purity of the teaching. I thought I was taking the next evolutionary step within the context of TM and Maharishi. It didn't quite work out that way; but when persons were punishedâexpelled from MIUâfor attending my seminars, I thought this was just the drama which
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: [...] How would YOU go about achieving these goals, Barry? I would try not to alienate the hardcore TBs for a start. The more people realise they are part of a fundamentalist group the less likely they'll be to stick around, check out Buck's tales of falling numbers in the domes, there's got to be a reason if it's that good. The millennium didn't come, so the people who were hanging around for hte millennium moved on. Did I read in the Times of India that half the money held in trust has been half-inched by Maharishi's family? I'd do something about that, probably a few billion useful dollars there. I have heard many things over the years, but I am not familiar with the phrase half-inched. And I doubt if it is billions of dollars. There is no way you can derive that much money from the revenue collected from initiations, TM-Sidhis instruction, sales of ayurvedic stuff, etc., even if you assumed that no money was ever spent on operational expenses over the last 50 years. L L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: You are correct, in my opinion, that the various services are meant to be a revenue stream. Peter McWilliams sent me an email before he died, describing a conversation he had with MMY 35+ years ago about how the TM Movement's growth was unsustainable. He too thought that these services were meant to compensate for declining revenue from initiations. That said, I think you are ignoring several things in your analysis: The primary focus of the TM Organization as directed by MMY was on three things: 1) ensure some kind of survival of the TM Organization (and its projects) after MMY died; 2) create permanent groups of TM-Sidhas to meditate in groups for world peace; 3) raise money to support goals one and two. How would YOU go about achieving these goals, Barry? I am WAY the wrong person to ask about this; I do not consider any of the three goals worth achieving. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: [...] How would YOU go about achieving these goals, Barry? I would try not to alienate the hardcore TBs for a start. The more people realise they are part of a fundamentalist group the less likely they'll be to stick around, check out Buck's tales of falling numbers in the domes, there's got to be a reason if it's that good. The millennium didn't come, so the people who were hanging around for hte millennium moved on. Did I read in the Times of India that half the money held in trust has been half-inched by Maharishi's family? I'd do something about that, probably a few billion useful dollars there. I have heard many things over the years, but I am not familiar with the phrase half-inched. Rhyming slang. Half-inched = Pinched. And I doubt if it is billions of dollars. There is no way you can derive that much money from the revenue collected from initiations, TM-Sidhis instruction, sales of ayurvedic stuff, etc., even if you assumed that no money was ever spent on operational expenses over the last 50 years. Land, all the buildings that were brought and sold over the years, donations etc. The TMO is (was) loaded it's just that Marshy was shrewd and never put any money back in, this stopped people being lazy and living off the movement. And that made sure it only grows. When all the UK academies were sold the money went to international, wasn't as much as it could have been because money was rarely spent on upkeep. If money was needed it was always borrowed. L L
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Hopefully guidelines facilitate what you are doing and don't get in the way of what you are doing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. Effectively they are an administrative attempt to control religious practices by using the Dome admission as a punishment towards coercing the use of TM-sanctioned vedic/hindu astrological and religious practices. Part of the policy question becomes: is there not a place in the Domes or the TM movement for just practitioners of meditation and the TM-sidhis without judging and interfering with people's religious practices? What do those paragraphs have to do with running the Dome program? Within TM, it seems we have TM and TM-Sidhi practitioners over here, and then sanctioned TM religious activities over there, like over in Vedic City. Within this it seems the TM-Rajas with this anti-religious activity policy are using in a business plan the Dome admission policy as coercion towards using the TM-sanctioned religious practices more exclusively. It's proly bad enough to be 'anti-saint'. Does the new TM.org really want to be known as 'anti-religious' in business as well? Public grants and funding going to an institution discriminating, based on religious activity? That does not sound good at all. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. Well, since TM isn't a religion (nyuk), what should they expect? Maybe if they taught it in the context of the six systems of Indian philosophy derived from the eternal Religion of the Vedas MMY, they wouldn't have this problem! If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? Sal, how? The 'course office' works it like East German Secret Police Stasi doing case work. They work it all the time. Search local papers for leads, the internet, make interviews, hear conversations in the Domes or meal hall on campus or around, some people also feel it their duty to tell them things, and then they squeeze people. They make files and network the files. These are TM career people who are very good at what they do. These are apparatchiks who are unquestioningly loyal subordinates. For them it is about enforcing the guidelines. If they had better guidelines they would enforce them too. It is a lot like being confronted with that German officer investigator actor in Inglorious Bastards. http://voices.yahoo.com/inglorious-bastards-using-tarantinos-movie-teaching-5616344.html That's the course office and the system that set it up. Evidently it is the best we have to work with. Wow Buck, you put up with a lot in order to be able to meditate in the Dome and operate within the confines of the TM secret police. I had no idea. If any of this had been going on back in 1976-1980 I would have been out of there, real fast. I guess what you gain is worth this kind of terrible, freedom-squelching monitoring? Is this for real? I haven't been paying attention or following any of this at FFL so I am a bit shocked now that I actually read one of these posts. I guess you need the collective group energy that the dome provides when you do your siddhis? You couldn't just sort of hop around in your own home and essentially be flipping these Nazi's a bird at the same time as you burn your dome badge? Jeezuz, I would love to be in Fairfield just to give these assholes a run for their money. I could think of all sorts of fun scenarios because, frankly, I wouldn't give a damn and just the opportunity to raise a couple of hackles on these guy's backs would be worth the price of admission. Good luck with that. But remember, certain things are only worth so much boot licking.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? It's like the injunction against ever wearing jeans in public if you were a TM initiator back in the day. You had to wear your suit at all times or someone might have gotten the idea that you were some kind of hippie. I know someone who was asked to get his hair cut when he was on an SCI course! Not even doing something that other people might even see. He refused and got a lower mark because he wasn't respecting Marshy's wishes (even though it wasn't him who asked, but these edicts come from somewhere I guess) When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Whittling the Dome guidelines Those parts in the Dome admission guideline about pundits, joytish and yagyas really don't need to be there. They don't have much to do with running the meditation programs in the Domes. There evidently is something else going on in those paragraphs. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
Yep, you got it. These clause about using non-TM movement religious services exclusively evidently were put in the guidelines as part of a business plan. It appeared in the Dome admission guidelines as part of a pitch to support the movement pundits exclusively. It got toned down a little towards saying it is okay to go to other services but not host or organize them now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
You are correct, in my opinion, that the various services are meant to be a revenue stream. Peter McWilliams sent me an email before he died, describing a conversation he had with MMY 35+ years ago about how the TM Movement's growth was unsustainable. He too thought that these services were meant to compensate for declining revenue from initiations. That said, I think you are ignoring several things in your analysis: The primary focus of the TM Organization as directed by MMY was on three things: 1) ensure some kind of survival of the TM Organization (and its projects) after MMY died; 2) create permanent groups of TM-Sidhas to meditate in groups for world peace; 3) raise money to support goals one and two. How would YOU go about achieving these goals, Barry? L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep, you got it. These clause about using non-TM movement religious services exclusively evidently were put in the guidelines as part of a business plan. It appeared in the Dome admission guidelines as part of a pitch to support the movement pundits exclusively. It got toned down a little towards saying it is okay to go to other services but not host or organize them now. But how did they catch you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: You are correct, in my opinion, that the various services are meant to be a revenue stream. Peter McWilliams sent me an email before he died, describing a conversation he had with MMY 35+ years ago about how the TM Movement's growth was unsustainable. He too thought that these services were meant to compensate for declining revenue from initiations. That said, I think you are ignoring several things in your analysis: The primary focus of the TM Organization as directed by MMY was on three things: 1) ensure some kind of survival of the TM Organization (and its projects) after MMY died; 2) create permanent groups of TM-Sidhas to meditate in groups for world peace; 3) raise money to support goals one and two. How would YOU go about achieving these goals, Barry? I would try not to alienate the hardcore TBs for a start. The more people realise they are part of a fundamentalist group the less likely they'll be to stick around, check out Buck's tales of falling numbers in the domes, there's got to be a reason if it's that good. Did I read in the Times of India that half the money held in trust has been half-inched by Maharishi's family? I'd do something about that, probably a few billion useful dollars there. L --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. I wonder what he problem is really, they might even be scared of Buck bringing negative vibes into the dome, little realising they are doing plenty of that. But it might be just a financial thing - the TMO is in deep financial shit. Or it might be they sincerely believe their stuff is better! I was obviously being facetious above, but I suspect this is the real reason. And it's not that they actually believe that their stuff is better; it's that they don't want the example of someone benefiting from something that wasn't manufactured here available to other TMers. It seems to me merely an extension of the same demon- ization of techniques of meditation and self discovery that they see as competitors that has been going on with the TMO since Day One. You don't want anyone to even *consider* a competing technique or service, much less benefit from one and tell other meditators about it. The myth has always been If Maharishi didn't teach it, it can't possibly be of any use, and it might be BAD. Whatevr the reason this inquisition is outrageous. I would have been over the horizon in seconds. But then I was the one telling them jyotish was a bunch of superstitious crap when they suggested I stay inside and don't watch a solar eclipse. I Told them I'm not scared of shadows and that was the end of it (bar a lecture on supreme knowledge as revealed by Marshy.) I watched the eclipse, they cowered in their offices. But there was no banning me from the flying room, they must have stepped up the paranoia since those days. To me it's just another hallmark of a spiritual movement in decline. They have realized that they cannot effec- tively expand their numbers by appealing to the public; they have both priced themselves out of that market and PR'd themselves out of it with their shenanigans. So the only way to bring in new meditators is by getting someone else to pay for large-scale programs, such as for schools or the military or the underprivileged. That said, the flip side of that coin is to keep the existing meditators from leaving. This policy seems to be an implementation of that, by trying to prevent them from learning that there are other options -- cheaper and possibly more effective options -- than the TMO offers. Ignorance is not only bliss, it's stasis. How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Simple. Never let them see (or even hear about) Par-eee. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy] Quite. Indeed. Love this cartoon. It really captures the essence of it, both from the seller's side, and the buyer's side.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Buck, do you ever ask yourself why you buck the system?  Bucking? Naw, I'm an Iowan, an old practicing mediator, and a pretty reasonable person. By experience and the science I'd like to see the numbers do well in the Domes. I'm quite hope full and I'd like to see those people facilitate the Dome numbers better. I'm pretty simple. They've got old problems that they've created with the Dome numbers with those guidelines and the meditating community. Raja Hagelin has created a lot of process inside to help run things since Maharishi's death. Things could change. I got time. -Buck From: Buck To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 6:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices  Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates?
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM, the Dome Badge, and Religious Practices
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Om, waht oh. I may lose my Dome badge, again. I got called in by the chief inspector the other day over my religious activities with non-TM pundits. If it goes badly they'll take my Dome badge away, again. It is still in the balance but it is an interesting thing; they have these anti-religious practices paragraphs in the Dome meditation admission guidelines that are a snare. The paragraphs are part of a business plan to coerce people to use TM movement joytish astrology and yagya services more exclusively by using the dome admission as a punishment. I had an hour long interview in the Peace Palace the other day. Some committee that I'll not see will adjudicate my case. We have something in our files, tell us about it. How do the TM inspectors [had a good laugh typing that] find out you are using non-approved services? Is there a supergrass in FF? And what the hell business do you think it is of theirs? Hope you tell them to stuff their stupid dome badge. Really, what is the point of all this if this is the sort of positivity that TM creates? It's like the injunction against ever wearing jeans in public if you were a TM initiator back in the day. You had to wear your suit at all times or someone might have gotten the idea that you were some kind of hippie. When it comes to pundits, it's the same thing. Deal with the wrong kind, and it might look as if you were hiring people to chant and make offerings to Hindu gods and goddesses to achieve the things you want in life. Can't have that. Gotta hire only Maharishi- approved pundits, so that it's all scientific, and you can't be accused of doing something religious. As for Jyotish: ['I sense that someone is about to swindle you.' 'Wow, thanks for the warning! How much do I owe you?' by White, Andy]
