[Framers] Back on Structured XML - stuck again

[cuc tu]

Hey all - it's been a long while since even using FrameMaker.

Quick Background:

The dev team supplies XML with most of the para content in element attributes. 
I have an xsl script that breaks all those attributes as child elements. I did 
this because I could not figure out how to get the attribute values to print to 
a para format and use prefix/suffix rules.

Now the team is manually inserting line breaks and using /n to indicate a soft 
return, but when read into FM, the /n prints and we a block of text. Is there a 
way to address this in the xsl or RW rules?

The next question is with variables. A child element will make reference to 
element values in another file. For example:

..$[Min]:$[Max]

There is a declaration in the main xml file:



  

(side note: my xsl will convert the above attributes to child elements, and 
then my RW rules drop all of those elements for now so they do not add empty 
space)

and there is a Variables.xml file:


..
..
..
..


How do I populate $[Min]:$[Max] with 1:4096?


The last item, the  element above uses a prefix "Range:". I can apply 
character formatting Bold, but what I really want to do is have "Range:" in a 
right-aligned heading RunIn para format and then print the range value as an 
indented format. The reason is that I can then have all of the colons lined up 
for easier reading as I would many different heading RunIn texts.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks C2
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[Framers] XML Structure - line breaks, tabs, and variables

[cuc tu]

Hi there,

Our engineering team continues to move forward with supplying XML content for 
us to parse. Previously, we had worked out how to transform all of the 
attribute values into separate elements. One of these elements is a description 
and they want to format this content using \n, \t, and \b (new lines, tabs, and 
bullets). For example:


This is a description of a command. The command does the following:\n
\t\bDoes something\n
\t\bDoes something else\n
\t\bDoes another thing\n\n
That's the end.


They are aslo wanting to use variables, which are contained in another XML 
file. They are referenced thusly:

Parameter{$[MinValue]:$[MaxValue]}

And this should resolve as: Parameter{0:4096}

I have not yet seen what the variables XML file looks like.

Are these things possible and if they are, any guidance on how to accomplish 
this?

Thank you,
C2


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[Framers] Acrobat Shared Review Cannot be Created

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

We are again experiencing a problem with creating/sending Shared Reviews either 
from Acrobat or Framemaker. We had a problem with (I believe, but not sure) 
Windows defender blocking the app. Our usual process is to send from Acrobat as 
a link to the author and our SharePoint site, then email the file manually. But 
we've tried every method, updated SW, repair install, etc. If sending from 
Framemaker as a comment enabled file, users can make comments, but of course 
it's not really a shared review, and some of our content comes from Word and 
other sources. It started happening intermittently, then it came permanent. We 
are using TCS2015.

What we get is the progress dialog does not start and the program is locked, or 
a dialog results that says the shared-review enabled file could not be 
produced, or the file could not accessed/does not exist.

If we cannot fix this, is there another useful alternative?

Thanks
C2
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Re: [Framers] Suppress XML Element Data

[cuc tu]

Thanks, Rick.

There are no attributes and we also use ePublisher to produce their flavor of 
HTML help.

C2


From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Monday, August 8, 2022 1:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 197, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1.  Suppress XML Element Data (cuc tu)
   2. Re:  Suppress XML Element Data (r...@rickquatro.com)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 18:24:17 +0000
From: cuc tu 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: [Framers] Suppress XML Element Data
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Framers,

I have some XML elements with text data that I want to suppress or not print. I 
discovered that I can use the rw-rules:

element "ClassName" drop;

But I want to retain the data when I save the XML file. I thought I could make 
it an index but I could not figure it out. I was getting a message that text 
data is not allowed.

That might not be a good approach anyway. I could use conditional text but had 
similar issues setting up the EDD.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks, C2


--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 14:46:45 -0400
From: 
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"

Subject: Re: [Framers] Suppress XML Element Data
Message-ID: <05e801d8ab57$35f78cf0$a1e6a6d0$@rickquatro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Hi C2,

If those elements have attributes you can use the Filter By Attribute
command to filter them out before you print or make a PDF. Then they will be
retained in the XML.

Rick

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[Framers] Suppress XML Element Data

[cuc tu]

Hi Framers,

I have some XML elements with text data that I want to suppress or not print. I 
discovered that I can use the rw-rules:

element "ClassName" drop;

But I want to retain the data when I save the XML file. I thought I could make 
it an index but I could not figure it out. I was getting a message that text 
data is not allowed.

That might not be a good approach anyway. I could use conditional text but had 
similar issues setting up the EDD.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks, C2
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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 197, Issue 2

[cuc tu]

Thank you, Lynne.

Yes, simple problem of mismatched case in my structured app declaration.

C2




Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 17:23:30 -0700
From: "Lynne A. Price" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] XML Application "x" does not exist
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

C2,

 ?? I suspect there is a simple problem but from your notes I don't know
what it is.
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Re: [Framers] XML Application "x" does not exist

[cuc tu]

Hi Lynne,

I am using the default structapps.fm file and there is defined Doctype, 
Template file, and DTD file. What's different from other simple apps is that I 
have not specified a RW file and Stylesheets and Entities are new. I copied 
this definition below as XSLT-Sample.

At the moment, I cannot understand how FM is aware of my EDD file. When I 
update the EDD file, I import its element defs into my template file, then I 
attempt to save my EDD as a DTD, which gives the error. If I change the EDD's 
StructuredApplication value to another application in my structapps (i.e., 
eclipse), then it saves the DTD. After that, I change the EDD app declaration 
back to XSLT-Sample. Then I save all files and restart FM.

When I open an XML file that is declaring the XSLT DTD, I get a dialog that 
lists only the XSLT-Sample and eclipse apps - the one I'm trying to build and 
the one I used temporarily in my EDD. Since the DTD doesn't have any 
information about eclipse, I'm not sure if there is some data/association 
stored deeply in FM. The XML opens according to the app I select. I can set the 
current structured application to XSLT-Sample. I cannot edit global application 
definition due to permission issue.

Does it matter that XSLT-Sample specifies the same doctype as eclipse?

Application name: XSLT-sample
DOCTYPE:ScpiParser
Template:   C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Template.fm
DTD:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd
XSLT Preferences: 
Preprocessing:
Stylesheet: C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-In.xsl
Postprocessing:   
Stylesheet: C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Out.xsl
Entity locations
Public ID:  //c2/xslt-sample/ScpiParser
Filename:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd

Application name: eclipse
DTD:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse.dtd
Read/write rules: C:\FMStructure\rw-rules.txt
Template:   C:\FMStructure\eclipse-template.fm
DOCTYPE:ScpiParser


Thanks C2


From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2022 1:01 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 197, Issue 1

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Today's Topics:

   1.  XML Application "x" does not exist (cuc tu)
   2. Re:  XML Application "x" does not exist (Lynne A. Price)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 15:16:39 +
From: cuc tu 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: [Framers] XML Application "x" does not exist
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi All,

Rick and Lynne helped me a while back on XSLT for reading an XML file into a 
structured application. I could not get it to work because of the application 
definitions had errors. I think I still have some errors in the structapps file 
declaring this application. When saving the EDD as a DTD, I get the error 
message in the subject line. Am I missing something or have something 
improperly defined?

Application name:?XSLT-sample
DOCTYPE:ScpiParser
Template:???C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Template.fm
DTD:??C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd
XSLT Preferences:?
Preprocessing:
Stylesheet:?C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-In.xsl
Postprocessing:???
Stylesheet:?C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Out.xsl
Entity locations
Public ID:  //c2/xslt-sample/ScpiParser
Filename:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd

The translation is to simply convert all element attributes to child elements 
since all content is in an attribute, and that translation works. All child 
elements now have data, but I do not want some of those elements to show. I've 
tried to make them as an Index or add an exclusion to the element. What usually 
happens is the content either comes out of the element tags or there is a 
missing end tag. Is there a way to toss the element data into some non-printing 
state?

Element (Marker): ClassName
Initial marker type
In all contexts.
Use marker type: Index

Thanks, C2

--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2022 09:15:22 -0700
From: "Lynne A. Price" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] XML Application "x" does not exist
Message-ID: <0679a9bf-3b3e-ad55-ea7c-ce75cf44b...@txstruct.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

C2,

 ? It sounds like the problem is not that your new application doesn't
work, but it either isn't define correctly or you haven't read the
definition. Make sure the new application is defined correctly and has
that the definition has been processed 

[Framers] XML Application "x" does not exist

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

Rick and Lynne helped me a while back on XSLT for reading an XML file into a 
structured application. I could not get it to work because of the application 
definitions had errors. I think I still have some errors in the structapps file 
declaring this application. When saving the EDD as a DTD, I get the error 
message in the subject line. Am I missing something or have something 
improperly defined?

Application name: XSLT-sample
DOCTYPE:ScpiParser
Template:   C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Template.fm
DTD:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd
XSLT Preferences: 
Preprocessing:
Stylesheet: C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-In.xsl
Postprocessing:   
Stylesheet: C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample-Out.xsl
Entity locations
Public ID:  //c2/xslt-sample/ScpiParser
Filename:  C:\FMStructure\eclipse\XSLT-Sample.dtd

The translation is to simply convert all element attributes to child elements 
since all content is in an attribute, and that translation works. All child 
elements now have data, but I do not want some of those elements to show. I've 
tried to make them as an Index or add an exclusion to the element. What usually 
happens is the content either comes out of the element tags or there is a 
missing end tag. Is there a way to toss the element data into some non-printing 
state?

Element (Marker): ClassName
Initial marker type
In all contexts.
Use marker type: Index

Thanks, C2
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Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours (Resolved)

[cuc tu]

All, I think the combination of Simon's listed exclusions and IT making a 
change to real-time protection was the solution that worked for us.

Thank you all.

From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 1:01 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 195, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours (docu...@hotmail.com)
   2. Re:  Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours (Simon BUCH)
   3. Re:  Framers Digest, Vol 195, Issue 3 -  Save to PDF -
  Minutes turned into hours (cuc tu) (Orly Zimmerman)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:11:47 +
From: 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

If I recall correctly, the need to do the 2-step PDF generation process ended 
some time around FM 8.
It's also significant that neither part of the process was a "save as". The 
first step was to Print to a PDF file, then Distill the PS to PDF using the 
Adobe Distiller tool.
It's also significant to note that the 2-step process did not produce an 
interactive PDF file. In particular, cross-references and coded hyperlinks are 
not active links because the link information was not passed through to the PS 
when you were "printing" a document or book.

-FR


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Marek, James 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 3:57 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. 

Subject: Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours

Way back when, on FM 6, we also had problems with "Save to PDF". Adobe
recommended saving as a PostScript file, then saving that as a PDF.

-Original Message-
From: Framers
 On Behalf
Of Tom Beiswenger
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 12:26 PM
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours

Our company also is still using FM12. All was well until everyone was
upgraded to Windows 10 and the company wasn't willing to pay the
subscription price for upgrading FM from a 32 bit app to 64 bit. Save to PDF
was broken. After attempting to save two large books to PDF and ended up one
"no file"
 and one that worked, I discovered that if I created a little dummy book (a
3-4 page) FM book and always did a save as PDF on it before doing the same
with a real book, the save as PDF worked. That was several years ago. I only
have to run the dummy book once during an FM session. Not sure why it works,
but it does.






--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 08:15:24 +0100
From: Simon BUCH 
To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
, cuc tu 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hello,

I have experienced this many times with my customers where documents
fail to print, or are very slow to print.

The behaviour seems to be exacerbated by having embedded PDF in a
FrameMaker document, or graphics that contain transparency.

I discovered this years ago, and it's actually an interaction between
Microsoft anti-virus products and the Acrobat Distiller [Adobe PDF
printer] process that causes it to hang while attempting to print any
documents which contain embedded graphics with transparency areas.?
Documents that don't have transparent graphics often print without any
problem.

The antivirus products known to experience this behaviour are:
 Windows Defender
 Windows Intune Endpoint Protection
 Microsoft Security Essentials
 Microsoft System Center Endpoint Protection
 Microsoft Forefront Security for SharePoint
 Microsoft Endpoint Protection
 Microsoft Forefront Endpoint Protection

To allow FrameMaker and Acrobat Distiller to print, and if you make use
of Microsoft anti-virus products, it is recommended to configure the
antivirus product to exclude scanning the processes such as:
%ProgramFiles%\Adobe\Adobe FrameMaker 2019\FrameMaker.exe
%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Adobe\Acrobat 2015\Acrobat\acrodist.exe
? and also to exclude scanning the folders and files below:
%ProgramFiles(x86)%\Adobe


If your IT department don't permit you do add these exceptions, inform
them that their choice of antivirus product

Re: [Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours

[cuc tu]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the time is for generating the tps file, or if 
printing to file, the ps file.

From: cuc tu 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2022 10:06 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours

Hi All,

One-by-one, we're all experiencing a problem saving as PDF. We're still using 
FM12. It does not matter if we're working on the network or local HDD.

We know the IT group changed virus protection from Sophos to Windows Security 
and we've disabled everything we can. I'm not sure if that is related or if 
there could have been a Windows update that has affected this version of FM. 
We've tried uninstalling and reinstalling.


Any suggestions?

Thanks, C2


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[Framers] Save to PDF - Minutes turned into hours

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

One-by-one, we're all experiencing a problem saving as PDF. We're still using 
FM12. It does not matter if we're working on the network or local HDD.

We know the IT group changed virus protection from Sophos to Windows Security 
and we've disabled everything we can. I'm not sure if that is related or if 
there could have been a Windows update that has affected this version of FM. 
We've tried uninstalling and reinstalling.


Any suggestions?

Thanks, C2


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[Framers] OT: Product Marketing Lingo

[cuc tu]

Hi All

Just a subtle point, we are discussing the proper way to present our product 
names/identifiers. For example, say we make audio analyzers with various model 
numbers and product trade names. Are there any incorrect ways to organize these 
terms:

The MX100 Audio Analyzer is...

The marketing lady thinks the correct way to present that is

The Audio Analyzer MX100 is...

I think this comes from when we have a trade name, such as AudioMax™.

The AudioMax MX1000 Audio Analyzer is...

I contend that Audio Analyzer MX100 is incorrect, but cannot articulate the 
technical reason why. Something like, MX100 modifies audio analyzer, right?

ThanksC2
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[Framers] Color08

[cuc tu]

Howdy Frame Users.

Another softball for you.

Many years ago we had a writer who experimented with random FrameMaker knobs. 
He fancied colors one day and now we have this gremlin when updating books that 
Color08 definition does not match the rest of the book.

I have all of our thousands of Frame files in one network folder. How can I 
purge this issue from my life? I cannot even figure out how to address this one 
file in a book. Where is this definition hiding? Why if I import color defs to 
my entire book from my template file, removing all overrides, does this issue 
persist?

Thanks All.
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Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App

[cuc tu]

Hi All, I'm not sure how to share the file contents wit the group here.

Simple question is how to break attribute values out into separate paragraphs?

The XML element:



My EDD for the element:

Element (Container):  ScpiCommand
General rule: 
Suffixes
Attribute list
Name: ClassName String Optional
Name: ClassLongName String Optional
Name: ClassDescription String Optional
Name: String String Optional
Name: Overlapping String Optional
Name: Lockable String Optional
Name: Type String Optional
Format rules for first paragraph in element
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: SCPICommand
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented
Format rules for last paragraph in element
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: <$attribute[String]> <$attribute[ClassDescription]>


The result comes out as a run-together paragraph using the SCPICommand 
paraformat. I am just wanting to print the String and ClassDescription 
attribute values.

Thanks C2

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Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App

[cuc tu]

Quick follow-up to the last part of my email - for whatever reason, closing FM 
and reopening my EDD allowed me to then save it as a DTD. Maybe I'm down to 
just formatting and pulling in other element data.

Thanks
C2

From: cuc tu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2022 2:58 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: Another Simple Structured App

Hi All,

Sorry, I've been remiss on this topic I've started, but I have been looking 
when I can (too many things going on).

I have built the EDD and have imported it to a sample source XML file, and have 
resolved all validation errors. Now I have a wall of attribute text to parse 
out.

Maybe if we look at how to define this one element:



  


  


  
  

  

OK, there are several elements there, but here is what I did for the parent 
element:

Element (Container):  ScpiCommand
General rule: 
Suffixes
Attribute list
Name: ClassName String Optional
Name: ClassLongName String Optional
Name: ClassDescription String Optional
Name: String String Optional
Name: Overlapping String Optional
Name: Lockable String Optional
Name: Type String Optional
Text format rules
If context is: [Attribute=”String”]
Use paragraph format: SCPICommand
If context is: [Attribute=”ClassDescription”]
Use paragraph format: Indented
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: <$attribute[String]><$attribute[ClassDescription]>


Here is what I am getting out (in FM body):

SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPESets the launch setup type. Outputs the launch setup type.
LaunchSetupTypeEnumLaunch setup type to be set
LaunchSetupTypeEnumLaunch setup type to be read
Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE LASTSets the launch setup type to Last.
Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE?Outputs the launch setup type.

So I need to figure out how to get the formatting to work. It seems I can 
sometimes pick to use a para format, but the attributes do not allow different 
paragraphs for different attributes in the same element. I've tried the 
formatting as shown here and also in the Prefix/Suffix rules.

Or character format everything and figure out how to add line breaks between 
certain attributes or characters around them. Also, the  attribute 
Enum="LaunchSetup" should pull information from the correct  element 
rather than use the value of the attribute there.



  
  
  

  


Maybe something like below would be presentable. The second command query form 
must be generated when the  attribute Type="Both"; otherwise we 
print just the command or query if there are not complemenatry forms.

SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPE
Sets the launch setup type.
SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPE?
Outputs the launch setup type.

Parameter Type: Enum
Parameters: DEF, LAST, SAV (DEFAULT, LAST, SAVED)

Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE LAST
Sets the launch setup type to Last.

Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE?
Outputs the launch setup type.


Finally, I'm stuck with creating the DTD. I follow the instructions here to 
make the EDD and then the next section is to create the DTD, but FrameMaker 
complains there is not structured App. This feels like a chicken and egg issue.

https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/index.html#t=using-framemaker%2Fuser-guide%2FWS37D3BBAC-A1FA-4fe3-9217-84364402A9D9_ver12.0.html
On this page, Step 2? Why are we doing that? Isn't that already done?
Step 5 presents a dialog that says "myapplication" does not exist, but also to 
reset the application name or define a new one... Where how is that described?
Oh, I had a wild crazy idea, when setting the structured app, rather than 
picking one from the list, go black-hat rogue and randomly type something in. 
Who'd a thought? Oh, that doesn't work either.

What's next? Define this app in structapps.fm and just fill in the non-existant 
dtd file name and try again? Even doing that FM says my app does not exist. 
Seems I need a DTD to make an app, but I need an app to make a DTD.

Sorry I'm rambling now.

C2
Adobe 
FrameMaker<https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/index.html#t=using-framemaker%2Fuser-guide%2Fid149PEI00MGB.html>
The complete Adobe FrameMaker (2020 release) Online User Guide (Online Help)
help.adobe.com

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Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

Sorry, I've been remiss on this topic I've started, but I have been looking 
when I can (too many things going on).

I have built the EDD and have imported it to a sample source XML file, and have 
resolved all validation errors. Now I have a wall of attribute text to parse 
out.

Maybe if we look at how to define this one element:



  


  


  
  

  

OK, there are several elements there, but here is what I did for the parent 
element:

Element (Container):  ScpiCommand
General rule: 
Suffixes
Attribute list
Name: ClassName String Optional
Name: ClassLongName String Optional
Name: ClassDescription String Optional
Name: String String Optional
Name: Overlapping String Optional
Name: Lockable String Optional
Name: Type String Optional
Text format rules
If context is: [Attribute=”String”]
Use paragraph format: SCPICommand
If context is: [Attribute=”ClassDescription”]
Use paragraph format: Indented
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: <$attribute[String]><$attribute[ClassDescription]>


Here is what I am getting out (in FM body):

SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPESets the launch setup type. Outputs the launch setup type.
LaunchSetupTypeEnumLaunch setup type to be set
LaunchSetupTypeEnumLaunch setup type to be read
Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE LASTSets the launch setup type to Last.
Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE?Outputs the launch setup type.

So I need to figure out how to get the formatting to work. It seems I can 
sometimes pick to use a para format, but the attributes do not allow different 
paragraphs for different attributes in the same element. I've tried the 
formatting as shown here and also in the Prefix/Suffix rules.

Or character format everything and figure out how to add line breaks between 
certain attributes or characters around them. Also, the  attribute 
Enum="LaunchSetup" should pull information from the correct  element 
rather than use the value of the attribute there.



  
  
  

  


Maybe something like below would be presentable. The second command query form 
must be generated when the  attribute Type="Both"; otherwise we 
print just the command or query if there are not complemenatry forms.

SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPE
Sets the launch setup type.
SYSTem:LAUNch:TYPE?
Outputs the launch setup type.

Parameter Type: Enum
Parameters: DEF, LAST, SAV (DEFAULT, LAST, SAVED)

Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE LAST
Sets the launch setup type to Last.

Example: SYST:LAUN:TYPE?
Outputs the launch setup type.


Finally, I'm stuck with creating the DTD. I follow the instructions here to 
make the EDD and then the next section is to create the DTD, but FrameMaker 
complains there is not structured App. This feels like a chicken and egg issue.

https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/index.html#t=using-framemaker%2Fuser-guide%2FWS37D3BBAC-A1FA-4fe3-9217-84364402A9D9_ver12.0.html
On this page, Step 2? Why are we doing that? Isn't that already done?
Step 5 presents a dialog that says "myapplication" does not exist, but also to 
reset the application name or define a new one... Where how is that described?
Oh, I had a wild crazy idea, when setting the structured app, rather than 
picking one from the list, go black-hat rogue and randomly type something in. 
Who'd a thought? Oh, that doesn't work either.

What's next? Define this app in structapps.fm and just fill in the non-existant 
dtd file name and try again? Even doing that FM says my app does not exist. 
Seems I need a DTD to make an app, but I need an app to make a DTD.

Sorry I'm rambling now.

C2
Adobe 
FrameMaker
The complete Adobe FrameMaker (2020 release) Online User Guide (Online Help)
help.adobe.com

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Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App

[cuc tu]

Hi Rick,

I have not yet begun, so DTD, EDD, template, and RW rules need to be defined. I 
think I can do this.

Looks like I'll need to learn about XSLT. Is there a brute force path to 
getting something simple like this workable?

Thanks C2

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:41:58 -0400
From: 
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"

Subject: Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App
Message-ID: <01de01d83e03$5e2f45d0$1a8dd170$@rickquatro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Hi C2,

You can apply an XSLT stylesheet automatically on import or export (or
both). The stylesheet file would be part of your custom structured
application. XSLT allows you completely transform your XML, including
changing the order of elements, converting attributes to elements, etc.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
585-729-6746
r...@frameexpert.com
http://www.frameexpert.com/store


--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 11:44:27 -0400
From: 
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"

Subject: Re: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App
Message-ID: <01e601d83e03$b7104370$2530ca50$@rickquatro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Do you have the EDD set up yet for the output FrameMaker document?

-----Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of cuc tu
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 11:06 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Another Simple Structured App

Hi Framers,

Our engineering group is giving me an XML file to build a dictionary of
programming commands. I'm still a novice at structured frame and have two
basic question s about using the XML content.

All content is in attribute values. I'm sure I can make certain attributes
visible, apply formatting, and add prefix/suffix. Can I automatically change
the order of the content? They are presenting the definition before the
command word. Can attribute values be pulled in from other elements?

Here is an example:



  


  


  
  

  
...

  
  



In all commands, I want to print the String value as a heading first, then
follow with ClassDescription as a paragraph, but the order is reversed.
In the CommandParameters element, I want to print the values of the
appropriate EnumList element attributes found in the appropriate element

So above would be something like:

:SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE
Description: Sets the system preset setup type. Outputs the system preset
setup type.
Command Parameters: DEFAULT, SAVED
Query Result Parameters:  DEF, SAV
Examples: SYST:PRES:TYPE DEF
Sets the system preset setup type to Default.
SYST:PRES:TYPE?
Outputs the system preset setup type.


Thanks
C2
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[Framers] Another Simple Structured App

[cuc tu]

Hi Framers,

Our engineering group is giving me an XML file to build a dictionary of 
programming commands. I'm still a novice at structured frame and have two basic 
question s about using the XML content.

All content is in attribute values. I'm sure I can make certain attributes 
visible, apply formatting, and add prefix/suffix. Can I automatically change 
the order of the content? They are presenting the definition before the command 
word. Can attribute values be pulled in from other elements?

Here is an example:



  


  


  
  

  
...

  
  



In all commands, I want to print the String value as a heading first, then 
follow with ClassDescription as a paragraph, but the order is reversed.
In the CommandParameters element, I want to print the values of the appropriate 
EnumList element attributes found in the appropriate element

So above would be something like:

:SYSTem:PRESet:TYPE
Description: Sets the system preset setup type. Outputs the system preset setup 
type.
Command Parameters: DEFAULT, SAVED
Query Result Parameters:  DEF, SAV
Examples: SYST:PRES:TYPE DEF
Sets the system preset setup type to Default.
SYST:PRES:TYPE?
Outputs the system preset setup type.


Thanks
C2

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Re: [Framers] Graphic Getting Cut Off

[cuc tu]

So I made the screenshot with frames showing, but ran out of time before 
leaving.

When I change the para tag name of another format to TDS-H1, the graphic gets 
cut off. TDS-H0, TDS-Hx and etc. work fine. (i.e., just changing the tag name 
causes the problem)

Yes, printing to ps and distilling works fine (once you get past the rely on 
system fonts setting - I had to mention that...)

It's affecting three different users, so at least it's not just me 

BTW, I almost always avoid inline graphics. Just this one case we've used them.

C2
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[Framers] Graphic Getting Cut Off

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

We have a mysterious graphic issue. We place a 10x7mm frame to house an 
Illustrator (AI) graphic at the beginning of a heading1 with the position at 
insertion point and -7pt above baseline. It's been this way for years without 
an issue, but now we save as a PDF file and the top half of the graphic is cut 
off.

We have an identical heading that was spawned from heading1, named heading0. 
This exists for sole purpose of eliminating that heading from the TOC. If we 
copy the entire paragraph and then change the heading1 para format to heading0, 
the problem goes away (and vice-versa). We have deleted the heading1 format and 
respawned it from heading0, and the problem returns.

I'm stumped.

Thanks, C2
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[Framers] Compare Documents

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

I am trying to compare long structured XML documents for added content. The 
content is just like a dictionary, except the words are programming phrases 
(commands) built from keywords separated by characters such as colons, 
brackets, and braces. The generator of this content has an issue with sorting 
characters and sometimes swaps some of the commands. The compare utility does 
not identify that the command element's content is the same and instead 
generates mostly strikeout content, and codes any content that matches the 
swapped command's content as added content, and then this is repeated for the 
following command element. It gets more convoluted if small groups of commands 
are swapped.

Since the only thing I am looking for is newly inserted, higher level command 
elements, is there a way to filter just that?

Thanks All
C2
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[Framers] OT: Amalgamation of Pubs and Marcom

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

Looking for insight into this trend. In my company, Pubs has generally reported 
to Marketing, historically a Director. The years have dwindled the organization 
and Pubs now reports to Marketing Communications Manager, who reports to the 
Field Operations Director (manages product marketing, customer service, and 
business/sales development- not the field sales organization though). The 
Marcom Manager has resigned and I am being offered that position. That means a 
transition from pubs manager out of the department into the Macom group. I will 
retain responsibility for both groups and there is no plan to hire a new pubs 
manager.

I've looked on the web for what could be a more suitable title for a dual role, 
or how would an amalgamated group be identified? The company is locked into a 
formal employee/salary management system (radford) so options may be limited 
anyway. I'd sure not ask for director status as there are no other managers, 
but leaving the pubs group for a marcom title has me thinking... it also seems 
salary ranges slightly favor publications, but this is considered an 
advancement here and with more pay.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Ctwo
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Re: [Framers] ISO character Entities

[cuc tu]

All, this can be disregarded. My eyes came into focus and I now see the comment 
marks.

Thanks,
C2


From: cuc tu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:48 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: ISO character Entities

Sorry All, I should have looked a little more. I found that the entity 
declarations already exist but are not working.?

 C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (2 hits)
Line 43:  
Line 43:  

C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw 
(3 hits)
Line 75: entity "micro" is fm char 0x6d in "FmSymbol";
Line 76: /* entity "micro" is fm char 0x00B5; */
Line 77: /* MICRO SIGN */

C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (2 hits)
Line 45:  
Line 45:  

C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw 
(3 hits)
Line 81: entity "deg" is fm char 0xb0 in "FmSymbol";
Line 82: /* entity "deg" is fm char 0x00B0; */
Line 83: /* DEGREE SIGN */


I also tried typing the characters in using the FM character palette using the 
same hex codes and they still come out as characters rather than entities. 
Related, only one of the less-than-equal-to or greater-than-equal-to characters 
is converted too. Is this a bug in this version of FM?

Thanks,
C2



Hi All,

I'm saving structured XML files and am looking for how to define character 
entities for the degree ° and mu µ symbols. I noticed percent % comes out as a 
character entity (& percnt ; ) so I searched for that term and found a couple 
of files:

C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (1 hit)
Line 32:  
  C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw (1 hit)
Line 52: entity "percnt" is fm char 0x0025;

Is this looking in the right direction? It seems I could just add a couple of 
lines to these files if I knew how to code it properly (), ().

Thanks for any guidance.
C2
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Re: [Framers] ISO character Entities

[cuc tu]

Sorry All, I should have looked a little more. I found that the entity 
declarations already exist but are not working.?

 C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (2 hits)
Line 43:  
Line 43:  

C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw 
(3 hits)
Line 75: entity "micro" is fm char 0x6d in "FmSymbol";
Line 76: /* entity "micro" is fm char 0x00B5; */
Line 77: /* MICRO SIGN */

C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (2 hits)
Line 45:  
Line 45:  

C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw 
(3 hits)
Line 81: entity "deg" is fm char 0xb0 in "FmSymbol";
Line 82: /* entity "deg" is fm char 0x00B0; */
Line 83: /* DEGREE SIGN */


I also tried typing the characters in using the FM character palette using the 
same hex codes and they still come out as characters rather than entities. 
Related, only one of the less-than-equal-to or greater-than-equal-to characters 
is converted too. Is this a bug in this version of FM?

Thanks,
C2



Hi All,

I'm saving structured XML files and am looking for how to define character 
entities for the degree ° and mu µ symbols. I noticed percent % comes out as a 
character entity (& percnt ; ) so I searched for that term and found a couple 
of files:

C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (1 hit)
Line 32:  
  C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw (1 hit)
Line 52: entity "percnt" is fm char 0x0025;

Is this looking in the right direction? It seems I could just add a couple of 
lines to these files if I knew how to code it properly (), ().

Thanks for any guidance.
C2
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[Framers] ISO character Entities

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

I'm saving structured XML files and am looking for how to define character 
entities for the degree ° and mu µ symbols. I noticed percent % comes out as a 
character entity (& percnt ; ) so I searched for that term and found a couple 
of files:

C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\iso-num.ent (1 hit)
Line 32:  
  C:\Program Files 
(x86)\Adobe\AdobeFrameMaker12\Structure\xml\isoents\isonum.rw (1 hit)
Line 52: entity "percnt" is fm char 0x0025;

Is this looking in the right direction? It seems I could just add a couple of 
lines to these files if I knew how to code it properly (), ().

Thanks for any guidance.
C2
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Re: [Framers] Structure Emphasis and Xref elements break lines

[cuc tu]

Thank you, Lynne. My problem was expecting the frame document to automatically 
update the element definitions after updating the EDD and template when 
reopening. I also tried resetting the structured application. Now, I even have 
the xrefs doing what I want.

Thank you,
C2


Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 11:48:59 -0700
From: "Lynne A. Price" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Structure Emphasis and Xref elements break
lines
Message-ID: <65dc6338-3849-61f8-663d-619360dae...@txstruct.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

C2,
 ??? Use a TextRangeFormatting ...

Open the EDD, template, and structured document. If you have not already
done so, make the template the current document and use File > Import >?
Element Definitions...
 ??? --Lynne

--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284
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[Framers] Structure Emphasis and Xref elements break lines

[cuc tu]

Howdy Framers,

I have emphasis and xref elements defined as containers without any formatting. 
They break the line as a new paragraph, so how do I get them to be inline? I 
thought of having them use an inline heading paragraph format, but the emphasis 
styling is applied as an attribute so I would not see a difference between bold 
and italic. That might be OK as I'm not really interested in a fully formatted 
document, just something easier to edit. I send XML output as the deliverable.

Also, how do changes to the EDD and template get applied to an existing 
structured fm file? For example, I changed the EDD  element to use a 
numbered paragraph format, but that seemed to have no affect. My FM doc does 
not ask for a structured app, but it seems to follow the one I've applied.

Thanks,
C2
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[Framers] XML Output: < = entity but > = >

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

Is this a bug in FM12? The > character is not translating to the  entity.

Thanks


From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 1:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 162, Issue 5

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
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Today's Topics:

   1.  Still stuck with CGM images (cuc tu)
   2. Re:  Read-write rules for graphics (Roger Shuttleworth)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 14:42:20 +0000
From: cuc tu 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: [Framers] Still stuck with CGM images
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Howdy Framers,

Can FrameMaker produce vector CGM images? I mostly have external vector images 
in ai and any format Illustrator can create and Frame seems to rasterize 
everything to a very low resolution when saving to XML.

Also, I read from the dev guide:

"For example, assume you have an instance of the Graph graphic element that 
contains graphics
you created with FrameMaker?s graphics tools. By default, the software creates 
the following
markup entity for it:

Also, the entity attribute of the graphic element has a value of graph1 to 
correspond with the
above entity."

I tried this by drawing a simple shape and also just "drawing" a text line. The 
resulting files were mif. I don't know where I might have changed the default, 
but is there something in the R/W rules that need to be entered? I have defined 
all graphic elements to be converted to CGM. Where does mif fit into the xml 
specification?

If this is not a capability that Frame has, is there an easy way around this 
issue? My client is recommending isodraw or auto-trol. I've tried numerous 
online converters and a few trial versions to convert what I have, and the 
result is either the same or worse, such as random lines and fills. The 
suggested solution are likely to be both cost prohibitive and have too steep a 
learning curve.

Thanks for any advice and for all the help you've given before. I have come a 
long way because of it.

C2


--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 15:44:29 +0100
From: Roger Shuttleworth 
To: "Lynne A. Price" , i...@heiko-haida.de
Cc: Framers 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Read-write rules for graphics
Message-ID: <151390fb-9f78-c0e7-17bd-c4550aa8a...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Hello Lynne and Tino

Thank you for your replies. My apologies for not getting back to you
sooner. I have been trying some other approaches without much success.

To answer Lynne's first question: No, FM11 is my personal version. The
investigation I am doing is for a charity, so there is little hope of
any cash - and even if there were, FM11 up till now has met my needs,
and I don't really want to learn a whole new version.

Another apology: I misspoke regarding the "href" attribute, which was in
fact a required *string* and not an id.

According to Tino's suggestion, I have tried using a very simple rule:

element "image" {
 ? is fm graphic element;
 ? attribute "file" is fm property file;
}

I have a very simple document consisting of a title and a single
paragraph containing some text and an anchored frame at insertion point,
with one referenced graphic. I changed the "href" attribute to Optional
in the EDD, and added no attribute values at all. I get the following XML:

This is some text

I have no idea why the XML contains a "graphicname" attribute, since
this does not exist in the FM document or the rules.

If I change the anchored frame to Run into Paragraph, aligned Left, the
XML is identical.

Changing the EDD so that the InitialObjectFormat for  is either
an anchored frame or an imported graphic file makes no difference: same XML.

Opening the XML in FM not surprisingly generates an error message in the
console: Error importing graphic for element (image).

Adding a subrule,? attribute "align" is fm property alignment; makes no
difference.

Even more strange: If I manually add an href value and then export XML,
the href value is exported, e.g.:



But when I open this XML in FM, the  element is dropped
altogether and the console has a message, "Error importing graphic for
element (image)."

Maybe I'm missing something very obvious...

Roger

P.S. I don't want to take up your time; I'm resigned to fiddling and
researching until I conquer this!


On 09/09/2019 2

[Framers] Still stuck with CGM images

[cuc tu]

Howdy Framers,

Can FrameMaker produce vector CGM images? I mostly have external vector images 
in ai and any format Illustrator can create and Frame seems to rasterize 
everything to a very low resolution when saving to XML.

Also, I read from the dev guide:

"For example, assume you have an instance of the Graph graphic element that 
contains graphics
you created with FrameMaker’s graphics tools. By default, the software creates 
the following
markup entity for it:

Also, the entity attribute of the graphic element has a value of graph1 to 
correspond with the
above entity."

I tried this by drawing a simple shape and also just "drawing" a text line. The 
resulting files were mif. I don't know where I might have changed the default, 
but is there something in the R/W rules that need to be entered? I have defined 
all graphic elements to be converted to CGM. Where does mif fit into the xml 
specification?

If this is not a capability that Frame has, is there an easy way around this 
issue? My client is recommending isodraw or auto-trol. I've tried numerous 
online converters and a few trial versions to convert what I have, and the 
result is either the same or worse, such as random lines and fills. The 
suggested solution are likely to be both cost prohibitive and have too steep a 
learning curve.

Thanks for any advice and for all the help you've given before. I have come a 
long way because of it.

C2
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Re: [Framers] Updating Entity Declarations in XML Output and Working with CGM Graphics (cuc tu)

[cuc tu]

Thank you, Lynne.

The contract requires CGM. I only found Larson software that will edit in 
native CGM format and I read that the latest version Illustrator can export CGM 
format. I do not have either of these.

Another small issue I'm having is with xref elements and following text. After 
the xref, the space gets dropped but I think that just happens when Frame opens 
the XML file. [ shows a typical trigger 
timing diagram.]

Your other info helped me resolve my declaration issues.

Thank you,
C2



From: "Lynne A. Price" 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Entity Declarations in XML Output and
Working with CGM Graphics

Do you want CGM? You can specify a different format with a r/w rule such as:

 ??? export to file "graphic.jpg" as "JPG" ;

See the Structure Application Developer's Guide and Structure
Application Developer Reference for details.
 ??? --Lynne

--
Lynne A. Price
Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development, and 
training
lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284
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[Framers] Updating Entity Declarations in XML Output and Working with CGM Graphics

[cuc tu]

I'm working from a structured XML document that I've saved as FM. I have 
removed several graphics, which are declared as entities. When I save out XML, 
all of the unused entity declarations persist. How do I remove those? I'm also 
now getting an error message that notation mif was referenced but never 
declared. That just came out of the blue so I don't know what I did to cause 
that issue?

I'm having a difficult time with having the graphics  written out in CGM format.

If I'm using Illustrator files that are properly sized and Import them at 100%, 
the resulting CGM file resolution is very low.

Some of the graphics are TIFF and the resulting CGM file ends up being 
physically too large for the customer (we only give them XML and CGM graphic 
files, and they produce PDF with graphics show about 400% larger). TIFF files 
are also imported at 100%, but I noticed some of the TIFF files have large DPI 
settings, like 200 or 600. When I open the XML file in FM, some of the graphics 
are a little larger than from the source, but not nearly as large as what I see 
in the PDF.

Thanks
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[Framers] Showing an Element's Attribute

[cuc tu]

Howdy All,

I have an element where a text rule is not specified, yet I need its attribute 
values to show. Do I need to add a text rule to the element and set the 
attribute as a prefix or suffix as described in the dev guide? The DTD for this 
element is as follows:




Thanks,
C2
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Re: [Framers] Exporting graphic elements to CGM file (structured XML) (Updated)

[cuc tu]

All, the problem I was having appears to be an FM bug. I also experienced Save 
as PDF producing low res images in several other environments and workflows. 
Rebooting or reinstalling FM has solved the problem in different situations. 
This bug affects structured and non-structured environments.

Thanks,
Cuc Tu
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[Framers] Format of XML element attributes

[cuc tu]

Howdy Framers.

I am saving out structured XML. Frame inserts spaces in the attribute = "value" 
(should be attribute="value"), which is not acceptable (sloppy code they tell 
me). Can that be changed?

Also, extra table element attributes are inserted, such as column width. None 
of that is acceptable, either. I can only have the attributes defined by the 
DTD. Is there something I need to add to the R/W Rules file to suppress that? 
My R/W Rules file is very limited and I only have the include iosall.rw and a 
graphic element.

Thanks,
Cuc Tu
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[Framers] Exporting graphic elements to CGM file (structured XML)

[cuc tu]

Hello All,

I am required to provide images in CGM4 file format and I discovered that FM 
will do this once I set the R/W Rules properly, but the CGM files are very low 
res, like they are just the thumbnail view magnified. Most of the images are 
native Illustrator files (line art) and TIFF (pictures/icons) and look great in 
their source formats.

Is there any way to correct this in FM or will I need to find some other tool 
to create and work with CGM file format? I am not finding much on Google, 
except some rumors that newer versions of Illustrator support it (CC).

R/W Rule:

element "graphic" {
  is fm graphic element "graphic";
  writer facet "PDF" {
notation is "PDF";
convert referenced graphics;
export to file "test-.CGM" as "CGM";
  }
  writer facet "TIFF" {
notation is "TIFF";
convert referenced graphics;
export to file "test-.CGM" as "CGM";
  }
  attribute "boardno" {
  is fm property entity;
  is fm attribute;
  }
  fm property import by reference or copy value is "ref";
  fm property width value is "7in";
  fm property height value is "7in";
}


Thanks for any advice.
Cuc Tu
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[Framers] Images not Displaying in FM (RW Rules for XML)

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

I'm not able to get graphics to display in FrameMaker. This is a structured 
environment I've been trying to create based on mil-std 40051 DTD. I think I do 
not know how to set up the RW-Rules.


This is how a graphic is coded in the XML data:



...




DTD:






EDD created in FM from above DTD:

Element (Container): graphic
General rule: mapref*
Attribute list
Name: boardno  String  Required
Name: boardfile  String  Optional
Name: reprowid  String  Optional
Name: reprodep  String  Optional
Name: unitmeasure  Choice  Optional
Choices: mm | cm | px | in | pt | pi
Default: in
Name: hscale  String  Optional
Name: vscale  String  Optional
Name: scalefit  Choice  Optional
Choices: yes | no
Name: alt  String  Optional
Name: hplace  Choice  Optional
Choices: left | right | center | none
Name: graphsty  String  Optional
Name: applicable  ID References  Optional
Name: inschlvl  Choice  Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 
16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 
32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 
48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 
64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 
80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 
96 | 97 | 98 | 99
Default: 0
Name: delchlvl  Choice  Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 
16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 
32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 
48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 
64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 
80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 
96 | 97 | 98 | 99
Default: 0
Name: comment  String  Optional
Name: changeref  ID References  Optional
Name: idref  ID References  Optional
Name: assocfig  ID References  Optional
Name: skilltrk  String  Optional
Name: security  Choice  Optional
Choices: uc | fouo | c | s | ts



R-W Rules:

element "graphic" {
 is fm graphic element "graphic";
 attribute "boardno"
 {
 is fm property entity;
 is fm attribute;
 }
 }


The R-W rule above gives error:
"Type mismatch for the Framemaker element (graphic). The type defined by the 
read/write rules is different from that defined by the template."

If I change the above to  "is fm graphic element "Graphic";"

Then I will get an invalid Graphic element with the image in FrameMaker, and it 
is much too large.

One thing I read is that a graphic should be in a "graphic" type element rather 
than a container. I could not figure out how to manually create this element 
with the attribute (entity?) boardno, however. Perhaps the EDD and RW Rules are 
both incorrect?

Thanks for any assistance,
C2
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Re: [Framers] Structured XML 'title' element (cuc tu)

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


Had a nice chat with Rick the other day and he helped me understand quite a bit 
more about the structure and some navigation...

We identified that the read-write rules are involved as removing that from the 
structured application definition stops the problem I was seeing. We were not 
sure exactly why it was happening though since the RW file does not declare 
anything about a 'title' element.


I think I have enough to do what I need to do at the moment.


Thanks all, and especially Rick!

C2

--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 21:02:59 +
From: cuc tu 

Hi Rick,


I suspect a table is involved because of the error message...

-



Hi C2,

Is the  element being converted to a FrameMaker table?

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-729-6746[cid:ce32eb98-daaa-4b08-8e8d-8de70f516dad] NEW!



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[Framers] Error : Attribute has already been declared for element

[cuc tu]

Hi All Framers,


I have a government supplied DTD that I suspect has some errors, but I have 
limited familiarity with structured authoring.


Here is one of the errors and what I've done to try to understand it:

XML Parser Messages (Document Prolog)
Error at file \production.dtd, line 4038, char 16, Message: Attribute 
'applicable' has already been declared for element 'test'


Below I try to find all the related elements and attribute definitions in the 
DTD. I've indicated where I think the problem is in red font. It looks to me 
that the "applicable" attribute is declared right in the  element and it 
is also declared through the additional attribute chain: taskatt > applidatt, 
where applidatt also declares the "applicable" attribute.


Is this truly an error in the DTD that should be corrected or is it typical and 
should it be ignored?


















Thanks All,


C2
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Re: [Framers] Structured XML 'title' element

[cuc tu]

Hi Rick,


I suspect a table is involved because of the error message, but all I notice in 
the XML and structure view is that the 'title' element tags are removed, and 
its text is then in the 'first_aid' element, which is not valid. In Frame, I 
can select this title text and then wrap it in the 'title' element, and that 
will validate. Frame will save the xml file with the 'title' element intact, 
but when the xml is then reopened, the title element is removed again.


Related to your question, actual 'table' elements are converted to 'Table' 
elements and then 'Row' elements are inserted. Those elements are undefined and 
appear elsewhere. The above just seemed to be an easier issue to get through as 
there are still several...


I'm fairly certain I have valid xml for the dtd, I just have problems with my 
structured application and am not sure where to look. I built the edd from a 
supplied dtd and imported the elements into a template file, but I do not map 
any formatting in the edd (it was simply built from the dtd). Then the rw rules 
are just from Adobe's structured app reference manual.


I think there is something making Frame expect the 'title' element in a table 
and there is a connection to Frame's Table Title, but I don't see where that is 
defined. I suspect something is missing from my rw-rules file, which looks as 
such:



fm version is "12.0";
/*
* Include all ISO entity mapping rules.
*/
#include "isoall.rw"


element "xref" {
is fm cross reference element "Xref";
attribute "formatprop" is fm property cross-reference format;
}


element "table" {
is fm table element "Table";
attribute "frame"
{
is fm property table border ruling;
value "top" is fm property value top;
value "bottom" is fm property value bottom;
value "topbot" is fm property value top and bottom;
value "all" is fm property value all;
value "sides" is fm property value sides;
value "none" is fm property value none;
}
attribute "colsep" is fm property column ruling;
attribute "rowsep" is fm property row ruling;
attribute "numcols" is fm property columns;
attribute "colwidths" is fm property column widths;
}


element "tablehead" {
is fm table heading element "TableHead";
}
element "tablebody" {
is fm table body element "TableBody";
}
element "row" {
is fm table row element "Row";
}
element "cell" {
is fm table cell element "Cell";
}

element "graphic" {
is fm graphic element "Graphic";
writer anchored frame {
notation is "CGM";
export to file "$(docname).cgm";
}
}




Thanks,

C2

-



Hi C2,

Is the  element being converted to a FrameMaker table?

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-729-6746 NEW!

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[Framers] Structured XML 'title' element

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I'm having a snag with a title element and wonder where I should look or search 
for to id the issue.


When opening the XML data, the title element is removed and the title text is 
left in the parent element, which is not valid. Frame reports the error "Cannot 
create the Framemaker table title (title) at this point. The title must be in a 
table."


For example, the element is structured thusly:


 
 FIRST AID DATA
 For information on first aid, refer to FM 4-25.11.




Frame will remove the title element:


 
 FIRST AID DATA
 For information on first aid, refer to FM 4-25.11.




These are the element defs in the EDD:



Element (Container): first_aid
General rule: (title, (figure | figure-alt | table | table-alt | lubetab)*, 
(((note*, para)+, (para0 | para0-alt+)*) | (para0 | para0-alt+)+))
Attribute list
Name: inschlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: delchlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: comment String Optional
Name: changeref ID References Optional
Name: id Unique ID Optional
Name: idref ID References Optional
Name: assocfig ID References Optional
Name: skilltrk String Optional
Name: security Choice Optional
Choices: uc | fouo | c | s | ts




Element (Container): title
General rule: ( | emphasis | subscrpt | supscrpt | xref | extref | link | 
help.info | indxref | term | term.def | callout | ftnote | ftnref | graphic | 
ctrlind | ctrlind-val | dodac | lubricant | symbol | torque | voltage | null | 
change | brk)*
Attribute list
Name: inschlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: delchlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: comment String Optional
Name: changeref ID References Optional
Name: id Unique ID Optional
Name: idref ID References Optional
Name: assocfig ID References Optional
Name: skilltrk String Optional
Name: security Choice Optional
Choices: uc | fouo | c | s | ts


Element (Container): para
General rule: ( | emphasis | subscrpt | supscrpt | xref | extref | link | 
help.info | indxref | term | term.def | callout | ftnote | ftnref | graphic | 
ctrlind | ctrlind-val | dodac | lubricant | symbol | torque | voltage | null | 
change | internet | proponent | phone | seqlist | randlist | deflist | figure | 
figure-alt | inlinegraphic | table | table-alt | verbatim | interaction | 
statemanipulation | statemanipulation-alt)*
Attribute list
Name: hcp Choice Optional
Choices: yes | no
Default: no
Name: esd Choice Optional
Choices: yes | no
Default: no
Name: inschlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: delchlvl Choice Optional
Choices: 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10
Default: 0
Name: comment String Optional
Name: changeref ID References Optional
Name: id Unique ID Optional
Name: idref ID References Optional
Name: assocfig ID References Optional
Name: skilltrk String Optional
Name: security Choice Optional
Choices: uc | fouo | c | s | ts

Thanks for any advice or tips.


C2
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Re: [Framers] FM12 - List of Imported Graphics != All Files

[cuc tu]

All,


I reinstalled FM12 and patched it, and inserting a list of imported graphics to 
the book now works. Thanks for all of the suggestions.


C2
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Re: [Framers] FM12 - List of Imported Graphics != All Files

[cuc tu]

Thanks for the offer.


I'm wondering if the feature is broken or if I'm not setting it up correctly? I 
was certain it worked before, perhaps that was FM9.


C2

--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 19:12:34 -0400
From: Lin Sims 
To: Frame Users 
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM12 - List of Imported Graphics != All Files
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

You might want to try Rick Quattro's ArchiveES script. It collects all
graphics into their own folder and updates all files in a book to use the
new path.

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 6:19 PM cuc tu  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> I've used to add a list of imported graphics, and then use that write a
> batch file to collect all of the files into a single folder, and then
> update Frame to use that folder. Now, I am not getting all of the files. It
> seems like Frame gets stuck on a single file type, such as Illustrator, and
> ignores the rest. Sometimes I get a mix, such as all .ai and one .jpg. That
> is consistent, however.
>
>
>   1.  Open book file
>   2.  Add > List Of >  References...
>   3.  Include References: Imported Graphics
>   4.  Update book, including all selections
>   5.  Ta-da - a partial list
>
>
> Have I forgotten something that will produce a complete list? I am not
> creating a list for just the file, since no other files were opened, but I
> have tried opening all the files and selecting the book when adding the
> list, to avoid the confusing message about adding the list to the book.
>
>
> FM12 unstructured.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> C2
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[Framers] FM12 - List of Imported Graphics != All Files

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I've used to add a list of imported graphics, and then use that write a batch 
file to collect all of the files into a single folder, and then update Frame to 
use that folder. Now, I am not getting all of the files. It seems like Frame 
gets stuck on a single file type, such as Illustrator, and ignores the rest. 
Sometimes I get a mix, such as all .ai and one .jpg. That is consistent, 
however.


  1.  Open book file
  2.  Add > List Of >  References...
  3.  Include References: Imported Graphics
  4.  Update book, including all selections
  5.  Ta-da - a partial list


Have I forgotten something that will produce a complete list? I am not creating 
a list for just the file, since no other files were opened, but I have tried 
opening all the files and selecting the book when adding the list, to avoid the 
confusing message about adding the list to the book.


FM12 unstructured.


Thanks,

C2
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Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)

[cuc tu]

Thanks for that, Rick.


I suppose that could work. I think it means I would need to create new para 
formats for each description element to house the 'numbering' text (the 
headings are short, such as "Description:", Settings:" etc.). This seems about 
as effective as using an inline text insert and text range formatting. Either 
of the two can almost accomplish what I want, which is a side-head alignment 
effect using RunInHeading, right justified, and the indented body is left 
justified with a large left margin.


With inline text (or numbering?), I thought I could use a tab with decimal (:) 
alignment and mimic the side-head effect, but that did not format as desired so 
I used a tab and first/second indents. I also use ePublisher  to produce HTML 
and tabs get replaced with spaces, so there is no alignment there. Maybe I 
don't know enough about ePublisher to fix that?


I'm not sure if it would be better to ask the engineers to add the heading text 
in a generic subhead element, a unique element for each heading text, or to 
make the description element just a container by wrapping the text range in a 
generic para element.


What would any of you do?

Thanks
C2

--

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 08:40:26 -0400
From: "Rick Quatro" 
To: "'An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.'"

Subject: Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)
Message-ID: <001801d44515$9fb50f20$df1f2d60$@rickquatro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Hi C2,

Can you use an autonumber instead of a prefix?

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing Inc.
r...@frameexpert.com
585-729-6746 NEW!



-Original Message-
From: Framers  On
Behalf Of cuc tu
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2018 8:01 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)

Howdy Framers,

I'm still trying to get heading paragraphs inserted by my EDD when opening
xml content. I guess I must ask if this is even possible with the xml
example below? For example, the XML description elements need to have a
heading run-in para with the heading text inserted.


Model 1
Spa description1
Spa description2
Spa description3


Formatted should look like:

Model 1
Heading1: Spa description1
Heading2: Spa description2
Heading3: Spa description3

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Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)

[cuc tu]

Howdy Framers,

I'm still trying to get heading paragraphs inserted by my EDD when opening xml 
content. I guess I must ask if this is even possible with the xml example 
below? For example, the XML description elements need to have a heading run-in 
para with the heading text inserted.


Model 1
Spa description1
Spa description2
Spa description3


Formatted should look like:

Model 1
Heading1: Spa description1
Heading2: Spa description2
Heading3: Spa description3


After reading: https://forums.adobe.com/thread/315301 , it seems to not be 
possible (the engineers will be displeased), but then I got the idea to use 
autoinsertions. I created a para element and that is referenced as a child 
insert in each description element.

It does not work when opening the XML file, but it works fine if I manually add 
the elements and content from Frame. I did not test that on all the other 
approaches I tried since I am not able to edit the xml files, but at least I 
got to see some things I tried may actually be correct.

I tried a myriad of different prefixs, such as in the spa element, defining a 
prefix with the description elements as the context. The context rules work for 
formatting, but I could not get the prefix to show. I tried it in the para 
element, and as noted before in the description elements. I can get the prefix 
and formatted the way I want, but the description content is always part of the 
same paragraph, so it's just an in-line text insert.

As far as structure, if the above is not possible, Would it make sense to just 
tell the engineers to wrap the description text in another para element? With 
that, I get the prefixes the way I want by adding them to the description 
elements.

Thanks
C2
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Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)

[cuc tu]

Reading the dev guide again, it occurred to me that the prefix rules needed to 
be in a parent element, so I tried:


Element (Container): SYSTEM
General rule: (|Description1|Description2)*
Prefix rules
If context is: SYSTEM
Prefix: SYSTEM Heading
Else, if context is: Description1
Prefix: Desc1 Heading
Else, if context is: Description2
Prefix: Desc2 Heading
Text format rules
If context is: SYSTEM
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Else, if context is: Description1
Use paragraph format: Heading4
Else, if context is: Description2
Use paragraph format: Heading4


Same for the SPA element, and that removed every prefix.

C2

From: cuc tu 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2018 10:34 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)


Hi All,


I had replied to the board and forgot to change the subject line, so this is 
continuing that topic. The short question is, how can I get the Subheading 
element's prefix text to appear as a full paragraph before the Description 
element's text?

I've build a small sample for this discussion and was trying to get a full 
paragraph heading inserted before the contents of a text element, based off the 
parent elements name. Also, it took quite a while to figure out how to make a 
mixed content model not throw errors, and I still really do not understand how 
else that sequence could be structured.

The SYSTEM and SPA elements insert the prefix text. However, I would think the 
structure should be: (,Description1&,Description2&)*
I don't understand the need for the wrapper and termination, but that's what I 
found by trial and error. Separating the elements this way does not work. In 
the end, there will be many optional "Description" elements and they will have 
mixed order.

Description1 and Description2 do not insert the Subheading prefix text. 
Further, it seems I would need to have the Subheading element before the  
element, since Subheading needs to be inserted before the Description element's 
text (or data).

Below are the EDD and xml source data, which all validates and could be usable, 
except for the missing prefix Subheading.


EDD Version is 12.0
Automatically create formats on import.
Element (Container): File
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: File_Title, (SYSTEM?,SPA?)
Element (Container): File_Title
General rule: 
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Title
Element (Container): SYSTEM
General rule: (|Description1|Description2)*
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SYSTEM Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): SPA
General rule: (|Description1|Description2)*
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SPA Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): Description1
General rule: (|Subheading)*
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Description2
General rule: (|Subheading)*
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Subheading
General rule: 
Prefix rules
If context is: Description1
Prefix: Insert Description1
Else, if context is:
Prefix: Insert Description2
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Heading4







File Title

SYSTEM description1
SYSTEM description2


SPA description1
SPA description2




Thanks
C2


From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 21

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
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About the Framers email list. The purpose of this list is to share information 
about using Adobe Framemaker. We welcome experienced users, newcomers, and 
people simply wanting to know more about the software.



can reach the person managing the list at
framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your
Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  FM 2017 Columns and Continued Lines (Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp)
   2.  FM2019 Doesn't Print to PDF (Corcoran, Susan)
   3. Re:  Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 20 (cuc tu)
   4.  Kudos for Adobe Support (Lea Rush)
   5. Re:  Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 20 (Roger Shuttleworth)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:24:51 +0200
From: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc: julie.sigr...@airbornemx.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Columns and Continued Lines
Message-ID: <16dfd6c

Re: [Framers] Learning Structure and Prefix (and more)

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I had replied to the board and forgot to change the subject line, so this is 
continuing that topic. The short question is, how can I get the Subheading 
element's prefix text to appear as a full paragraph before the Description 
element's text?

I've build a small sample for this discussion and was trying to get a full 
paragraph heading inserted before the contents of a text element, based off the 
parent elements name. Also, it took quite a while to figure out how to make a 
mixed content model not throw errors, and I still really do not understand how 
else that sequence could be structured.

The SYSTEM and SPA elements insert the prefix text. However, I would think the 
structure should be: (,Description1&,Description2&)*
I don't understand the need for the wrapper and termination, but that's what I 
found by trial and error. Separating the elements this way does not work. In 
the end, there will be many optional "Description" elements and they will have 
mixed order.

Description1 and Description2 do not insert the Subheading prefix text. 
Further, it seems I would need to have the Subheading element before the  
element, since Subheading needs to be inserted before the Description element's 
text (or data).

Below are the EDD and xml source data, which all validates and could be usable, 
except for the missing prefix Subheading.


EDD Version is 12.0
Automatically create formats on import.
Element (Container): File
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: File_Title, (SYSTEM?,SPA?)
Element (Container): File_Title
General rule: 
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Title
Element (Container): SYSTEM
General rule: (|Description1|Description2)*
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SYSTEM Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): SPA
General rule: (|Description1|Description2)*
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SPA Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): Description1
General rule: (|Subheading)*
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Description2
General rule: (|Subheading)*
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Subheading
General rule: 
Prefix rules
If context is: Description1
Prefix: Insert Description1
Else, if context is:
Prefix: Insert Description2
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Heading4







File Title

SYSTEM description1
SYSTEM description2


SPA description1
SPA description2




Thanks
C2


From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 1:02 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 21

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com You
Framers Info Page - Adobe 
FrameMaker<http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com>
lists.frameusers.com
About the Framers email list. The purpose of this list is to share information 
about using Adobe Framemaker. We welcome experienced users, newcomers, and 
people simply wanting to know more about the software.



can reach the person managing the list at
framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your
Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  FM 2017 Columns and Continued Lines (Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp)
   2.  FM2019 Doesn't Print to PDF (Corcoran, Susan)
   3. Re:  Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 20 (cuc tu)
   4.  Kudos for Adobe Support (Lea Rush)
   5. Re:  Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 20 (Roger Shuttleworth)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 22:24:51 +0200
From: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Cc: julie.sigr...@airbornemx.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 2017 Columns and Continued Lines
Message-ID: <16dfd6c2-321b-4c45-ae11-b73e1c80c...@idtp.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

Hi Julie,

you could use a (one column) table for each Part Number and the belonging 
references. Put the Part Number paragraph in the table header (or table title) 
and add the table continued variable. This will be repeated at the top of each 
column where the table breaks.


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel


FontoXML <http://www.fontoxml.com/> | DITAToo <http://www.ditatoo.com/> | 
FrameMaker <http://framemakerspecialist.nl/> | edc 
<http://www.easydoccontents.com/> | AEM 
<http://www.adobe.com/nl/products/xml-documentation-add-on-for-experience-manager.html>
 | MiramoPDF <https://www.miramo.com/english/overview/overview.html>

Phone   +31652

Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 149, Issue 20

[cuc tu]

Howdy Framers,

I am building a very simple structure, cut down further for this discussion. 
Some items I have not figured out:

When importing element defs into the template: Elements that are defined but 
not referenced. The FM str dev guide mentions this one time as a capitalization 
mismatch (pg33 of the 2015 release), but I cannot see the problem. The elements 
are Subheading, Description2, SPA, SYSTEM, and File_Title. If I remove the 
Description2 element and references, then the unreferenced elements are 
Subheading, Description1, and File_Title.

Some elements need a heading inserted as a paragraph, so I found an example for 
this in the dev guide, pg234. I'm not getting the prefix text inserted before 
the Description elements.

Thanks for any assist.
C2

==




File Title

SYSTEM description1
SYSTEM description2


SPA description1
SPA description2


==
EDD Version is 12.0
Automatically create formats on import.
Element (Container): File
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container): File_Title
General rule: 
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Title
Element (Container): SYSTEM
General rule: 
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SYSTEM Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): SPA
General rule: 
Prefix rules
In all contexts.
Prefix: SPA Heading
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: ChapterHeading
Element (Container): Description1
General rule: 
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Description2
General rule: 
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Indented4
Element (Container): Subheading
General rule: 
Prefix rules
If context is: Description1
Prefix: Insert Description1
Else, if context is:
Prefix: Insert Description2
Text format rules
In all contexts.
Use paragraph format: Heading4
==

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Re: [Framers] Angle Brackets in Structured XML

[cuc tu]

I've not found the exact solution. This should be one of the five predefined 
XML entities.


I added the following to my rw-rules document, although they exist in a 
different form in one of the the number rw-rules files already specified in 
isoall.rw.


entity "" is fm char 0x003C;
/* LESS-THAN SIGN */
entity "" is fm char 0x003E;
/* GREATER-THAN SIGN */


It's odd that only the greater-than character is converted.


C2


Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 19:59:58 +
From: Craig Ede 
To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.

Subject: Re: [Framers] Angle Brackets in Structured XML
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think you define that in the read-write rules. (Not at an FM computer now, 
so)


Craig



From: Framers  on 
behalf of cuc tu 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 2:19 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Angle Brackets in Structured XML

Hi All,


I've built a very simple structured application so that native XML user content 
can be shared/created between various groups.


The angle bracket is used quite a bit as a printable character. We were going 
along well using HTML coding "" and ""


When I save an XML file, all "" is changed to ">" so is it possible for 
FrameMaker to keep the original text, or what is the standard solution for 
this? The dev team wants to target both HTML and XML for their content and do 
not want to maintain two different ways of using angle brackets.


Thanks C2
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[Framers] Angle Brackets in Structured XML

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I've built a very simple structured application so that native XML user content 
can be shared/created between various groups.


The angle bracket is used quite a bit as a printable character. We were going 
along well using HTML coding "" and ""


When I save an XML file, all "" is changed to ">" so is it possible for 
FrameMaker to keep the original text, or what is the standard solution for 
this? The dev team wants to target both HTML and XML for their content and do 
not want to maintain two different ways of using angle brackets.


Thanks C2
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Re: [Framers] EDD Formatting not Applied (SOLVED)

[cuc tu]

I discovered that I needed to re-import the EDD elements into my template. I 
can now have a Happy Friday, and same to all of you.


C2



From: cuc tu 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 9:03 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: EDD Formatting not Applied


Hi All,


If you're following my structured application development, you're not surprised 
I'm back so soon.


I wanted to automatically format the XML text in my Frame application. I 
changed the EDD as follows:


Structured Application: SCPI
Automatically create formats on import.
Element (Container): Reference
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Title
General rule: 
Text format rules
Element paragraph format: Title
In all contexts.
Text range.


Saved DTD and opened my xml file - without seeing any formatting applied. The 
para formats are available, just not being applied.  I tried about a dozen 
different element combinations that were available.



I was reading this reference, particularly step 6:


https://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/edd-formatting.pdf

Formatting with FrameMaker + SGML’s EDD - 
tecfa.unige.ch<https://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/edd-formatting.pdf>
tecfa.unige.ch
Formatting with FrameMaker + SGML’s EDD Step 3:Identify the elements that need 
formatting 3 tags) Alternativly you can work with the Structure View Window.



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[Framers] EDD Formatting not Applied

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


If you're following my structured application development, you're not surprised 
I'm back so soon.


I wanted to automatically format the XML text in my Frame application. I 
changed the EDD as follows:


Structured Application: SCPI
Automatically create formats on import.
Element (Container): Reference
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Title
General rule: 
Text format rules
Element paragraph format: Title
In all contexts.
Text range.


Saved DTD and opened my xml file - without seeing any formatting applied. The 
para formats are available, just not being applied.  I tried about a dozen 
different element combinations that were available.



I was reading this reference, particularly step 6:


https://tecfa.unige.ch/guides/xml/frame-sgml/edd-formatting.pdf

Formatting with FrameMaker + SGML’s EDD - 
tecfa.unige.ch
tecfa.unige.ch
Formatting with FrameMaker + SGML’s EDD Step 3:Identify the elements that need 
formatting 3 tags) Alternativly you can work with the Structure View Window.



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Re: [Framers] My Structured App Not Showing

[cuc tu]

Framers,


I found an old version (FM9) of the structure developer guide and went through 
that quick start overview. I needed to create a rw rules file, and now it's 
working.


I'm having an anomaly in the structure view pain :) - it's not scrolling 
properly. That will be another topic.


Thanks for bearing with this.

C2



From: cuc tu 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 7:35 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: My Structured App Not Showing


Framers,


A few more details.


I typed my application name into my EDD and went through the process again. 
This time when saving the DTD, I was not presented with the structured 
application selection dialog. I forgot to mention there was a dialog before 
that gave of choice of SGML or XML, I picked XML, but that did not appear after 
including my application name in the EDD. When saving my DTD previously, I had 
many str-app choices, including the one I named. I picked that once or twice 
when doing this.


There is also some details about adding the details to the structured 
application definition file. That seems to get done automatically using the 
designer.


Here are referenced I've been reading:


https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2015/using/using-framemaker-2015/frm_structauth_sa/Build_a_structured_application-.htm


http://www.frameusers.com/uploads/2016/09/First-steps-in-structure.pdf



I am now reading the bottom of page 23(27) of this nebulous document:


https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2015/StructuredDev/Structure_Dev_Reference.pdf



C2







From: cuc tu 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 6:34 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: My Structured App Not Showing


Hi All,


I'm trying to set a simple structured app so I can read in xml and apply 
formatting, somewhere I am missing something as I only see two dita and one 
xdocbook apps available. A few times I've seen a whole list of about 20 and 
cannot figure out where is the problem.


I make a new EDD in Frame and it validates. It is flat:


EDD Version is 12.0
Structured Application:
Do not create formats on import.
Element (Container): Reference
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Title
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Subheading
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Command
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name
General rule: 
Element (Container):  title-label
General rule: 
Element (Container):  show
General rule: 
Element (Container):  data
General rule: 
Element (Container):  pre
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name2
General rule: 


Then I use StructureTools to save as a DTD, selecting :





























I also create a blank FM file and import elements from my EDD. All of these 
files are saved in the program directory specified in my DTD.



Now I will open the Structured Application Designer with Blank Application, I 
will set the the file paths to my DTD, EDD, and scpi-template.fm files, give it 
a name and save.


Now I will try to open the xml file. I do not know what needs to be in the 
header, but that's my guess. I've also tried it without the path (just 
"DTD12.dtd:








]>


Commands
SYSTEM Commands

 *CLS  
   Title: 
   Clear Status Command 
   Description: 
This command clears all status data structures in the device 
(registers and error queue)
and forces the Operaton Complete state to Idle. 
   Parameter(s): 
   none 





Frame offers only the three structured apps, not mine, so I'm lost.


I've done this many times and a few times I was able to see my app, but I had 
specified the  element in lower case and frame seemed to be 
complaining about that and would not open the file.


I know I need to add a lot more to my EDD and rebuild this, I just want 
something simple to work and I just cannot get there.


Thanks for any insights.

C2
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Re: [Framers] My Structured App Not Showing

[cuc tu]

Framers,


A few more details.


I typed my application name into my EDD and went through the process again. 
This time when saving the DTD, I was not presented with the structured 
application selection dialog. I forgot to mention there was a dialog before 
that gave of choice of SGML or XML, I picked XML, but that did not appear after 
including my application name in the EDD. When saving my DTD previously, I had 
many str-app choices, including the one I named. I picked that once or twice 
when doing this.


There is also some details about adding the details to the structured 
application definition file. That seems to get done automatically using the 
designer.


Here are referenced I've been reading:


https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2015/using/using-framemaker-2015/frm_structauth_sa/Build_a_structured_application-.htm


http://www.frameusers.com/uploads/2016/09/First-steps-in-structure.pdf



I am now reading the bottom of page 23(27) of this nebulous document:


https://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/2015/StructuredDev/Structure_Dev_Reference.pdf



C2







From: cuc tu 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 6:34 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: My Structured App Not Showing


Hi All,


I'm trying to set a simple structured app so I can read in xml and apply 
formatting, somewhere I am missing something as I only see two dita and one 
xdocbook apps available. A few times I've seen a whole list of about 20 and 
cannot figure out where is the problem.


I make a new EDD in Frame and it validates. It is flat:


EDD Version is 12.0
Structured Application:
Do not create formats on import.
Element (Container): Reference
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Title
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Subheading
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Command
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name
General rule: 
Element (Container):  title-label
General rule: 
Element (Container):  show
General rule: 
Element (Container):  data
General rule: 
Element (Container):  pre
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name2
General rule: 


Then I use StructureTools to save as a DTD, selecting :





























I also create a blank FM file and import elements from my EDD. All of these 
files are saved in the program directory specified in my DTD.



Now I will open the Structured Application Designer with Blank Application, I 
will set the the file paths to my DTD, EDD, and scpi-template.fm files, give it 
a name and save.


Now I will try to open the xml file. I do not know what needs to be in the 
header, but that's my guess. I've also tried it without the path (just 
"DTD12.dtd:








]>


Commands
SYSTEM Commands

 *CLS  
   Title: 
   Clear Status Command 
   Description: 
This command clears all status data structures in the device 
(registers and error queue)
and forces the Operaton Complete state to Idle. 
   Parameter(s): 
   none 





Frame offers only the three structured apps, not mine, so I'm lost.


I've done this many times and a few times I was able to see my app, but I had 
specified the  element in lower case and frame seemed to be 
complaining about that and would not open the file.


I know I need to add a lot more to my EDD and rebuild this, I just want 
something simple to work and I just cannot get there.


Thanks for any insights.

C2
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[Framers] My Structured App Not Showing

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I'm trying to set a simple structured app so I can read in xml and apply 
formatting, somewhere I am missing something as I only see two dita and one 
xdocbook apps available. A few times I've seen a whole list of about 20 and 
cannot figure out where is the problem.


I make a new EDD in Frame and it validates. It is flat:


EDD Version is 12.0
Structured Application:
Do not create formats on import.
Element (Container): Reference
Valid as the highest-level element.
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Title
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Subheading
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Command
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name
General rule: 
Element (Container):  title-label
General rule: 
Element (Container):  show
General rule: 
Element (Container):  data
General rule: 
Element (Container):  pre
General rule: 
Element (Container):  Name2
General rule: 


Then I use StructureTools to save as a DTD, selecting :





























I also create a blank FM file and import elements from my EDD. All of these 
files are saved in the program directory specified in my DTD.



Now I will open the Structured Application Designer with Blank Application, I 
will set the the file paths to my DTD, EDD, and scpi-template.fm files, give it 
a name and save.


Now I will try to open the xml file. I do not know what needs to be in the 
header, but that's my guess. I've also tried it without the path (just 
"DTD12.dtd:








]>


Commands
SYSTEM Commands

 *CLS  
   Title: 
   Clear Status Command 
   Description: 
This command clears all status data structures in the device 
(registers and error queue)
and forces the Operaton Complete state to Idle. 
   Parameter(s): 
   none 





Frame offers only the three structured apps, not mine, so I'm lost.


I've done this many times and a few times I was able to see my app, but I had 
specified the  element in lower case and frame seemed to be 
complaining about that and would not open the file.


I know I need to add a lot more to my EDD and rebuild this, I just want 
something simple to work and I just cannot get there.


Thanks for any insights.

C2
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[Framers] Starting DITA 1.2

[cuc tu]

Hello Frame-users,

I’m not familiar with structuring authoring, so hoping to get some guidance on 
creating DITA reference topics of programming commands. I'm spending a lot of 
time searching for help and not getting very far for the time I'me spending.

First, I wonder if there are good samples to review of something similar.

Next, I’m unsure of what would be an appropriate high level element structure.

My main question is how should all the content blocks be structured and under 
what elements? From my perspective, is the whole chapter wrapped inside a 
reference element, with more nested reference elements for each main command 
grouping, and then each command yet another nested reference element? I know 
Frame limits the valid elements, but there are so many choices.

Our manuals have a common unstructured layout, similar to the default FM 
document. The programming chapter of commands simply has a title, H1, text 
description and a bullet list of links to all H1 sections. Each H1 section 
describe its group of commands, then we use the command syntax as a heading 
followed by a series of heading run-ins for each relevant program item that 
needs to be described. For example:

Chapter title
H1 Intro
Body description
links

Calculate Subsystem
Text description of this system.  May include bullet lists, tables, etc.
:CALCulate:POWer:LIMit  {DBM}
:CALCulate:POWer:LIMit?
Title: Power Limit
Description: Sets and queries the amplitude power limit.
Parameters:  {DBM}
Query Return: Numeric (dBm)
Default Value: 10 dBm
Default Unit: dBm
Range: -200 dBm to 200 dBm

There will be many subsystems and thousands of commands. They each have various 
items to describe, not all exactly the same set.

I’m looking at a DITA 1.2 reference topic under the software domain, since I 
found the cmdname element. Where are the DTD and EDD and other support files 
for this topic type? I searched the program files for all .DTD and none of them 
have that element name (they didn’t have anything I expected). Also, the saved 
XML file specifies: http://www.frameusers.com
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[Framers] XML Requirements

[cuc tu]

Hello Frame Users.


Our software team has said they are going to switch their input from plainly 
formatted HTML to XML. I'm hoping to get some advice on what should be required 
from them. I am only familiar with unstructured Frame and so far we have 
manually processed the entire content dump for each update (and could probably 
continue that way).  Also, I do not know what the software team thinks XML 
structure is like. I suspect it will be just like the HTML, a series of nested 
open/close tags, just as is the HTML. I suspect they will not get on with any 
kind of semantic mark-up.


The content is very similar to a dictionary where you have a term and a number 
attributes. My first thought is to consider Lightweight DITA, but that might be 
too much to get set up, and it does not fit with everything else so I'm 
wondering if there is a particular structure we should suggest, and one that 
can be leveraged somehow by FrameMaker? (the dev team is already down on FM 
when they learned it cannot simply open HTML files and display readable 
content, or I don't know how).


Thanks for any advice.

C2
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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 134, Issue 6

[cuc tu]

Thanks, All.


Well, I concede I did a poor job presenting. Pressed for time and 
interruptions, so I just fired it off. A name for someone who is someone...


The kids liked the video, and I've heard the story in kind. It's a good lesson 
in so many ways. If I take what you all are saying at face value, I can stop 
now because everyone already has their own system/tool, and I am not in a 
central governance position. We know what our customers want and need, we just 
need to figure out how to make it accurate, all the time, everywhere, and it 
has be done fast. That implies a cost and something more.


This should quickly bypass the tool discussion and touch obvious organizational 
issues. Things are changing even as this discussion is taking place. There is 
an old adage that comes to mind about not being part of the solution. The IT 
group would implement SAP ERP in due time and then I would likely pursue 
IXIASOFT and start learning what I need to do to get my content ready for a 
smooth transition. (every time I talk about this, FrameMaker ends up not being 
part of the solution, and it really does not have to be)


So, about that content strategy? When I asked our director of marcom what she 
means when she talks about content marketing, she said there was plenty of info 
online if I want to research it, and then went back to counting how many 
webinars, podcasts, videos, and other marketing collateral pieces they are 
going to publish this year. I have to be fair though, I did get  Pardot's 
"Content Marketing Mix" slide (Google images will produce that). My particular 
deliverable is low on the Leads scale.


Thanks again,

cuc



From: Framers  on 
behalf of framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com 

Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 12:05 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framers Digest, Vol 134, Issue 6

Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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About the Framers email list. The purpose of this list is to share information 
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can reach the person managing the list at
framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your
Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  OT: CMS Scope (Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp)
   2.  Plugins no longer work after installing Fm 14.0.1 (Yves Barbion)
   3. Re:  Plugins no longer work after installing Fm 14.0.1
  (Rick Quatro)
   4. Re:  Plugins no longer work after installing Fm 14.0.1
  (Kunal Saini)
   5. Re:  Plugins no longer work after installing Fm 14.0.1
  (Rick Quatro)
   6. Re:  OT: CMS Scope (Peter Gold)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:44:06 +0200
From: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
To: Framers 
Cc: cu...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] OT: CMS Scope
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

Hi, you didn?t mention your name,

what you describe is very organization centric. Try to look at it form a client 
perspective, from the users point of view.
What do your users need? What do your clients need, both new and existing ones? 
That should be the staring point and, if you do that right, it will give enough 
ROI arguments to defend the idea of a unified content strategy. And think about 
content services.

And, by the way, there?s no such thing as an Enterprise CMS that will cover 
all. Let everyone use their own systems but  govern it centrally.




Kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel

Information Energy,  17-18 mei 2017 
in Utrecht!

FontoXML  | DITAToo  | 
FrameMaker 

DITAToo DITA CMS: Your Easy Entry to DITA and Affordable 
...
www.ditatoo.com
DITAToo DITA CMS Features DITAToo DITA CMS provides comprehensive features that 
let you effectively share, reuse, manage, and publish DITA content.



iDTP - FrameMaker Specialist
framemakerspecialist.nl
About. iDTP is a consulting company for technical and non-technical information 
development. iDTP is: Wim Hooghwinkel, Adobe Certified Expert in FrameMaker.




>
> Hi All,
>
> What is the typical scope of coverage for an enterprise CMS? I'm trying to 
> establish ROI and just cannot see it for me as a tech writer in the 
> environment I'm in. Should a CMS only attempt to cover tech pubs? I 

[Framers] OT: CMS Scope

[cuc tu]

Hi All,

What is the typical scope of coverage for an enterprise CMS? I'm trying to 
establish ROI and just cannot see it for me as a tech writer in the environment 
I'm in. Should a CMS only attempt to cover tech pubs? I admit that I cannot see 
how it is possible to bring in all of the content sources from all of the 
completely disconnected groups into one system and have that facilitate any 
level of productivity. I do not see any possible return unless all of the 
content sources feed the same system and support all of the mechanisms 
(metadata, etc.) that would be required.

We have several CMS and approaches to managing our IP, and you will easily see 
that when something like a small accessory piece is discontinued or changes, it 
is a monumental effort just to identify where that topic may be discussed. The 
rest of this just illustrates the environment and sources of content.

SharePoint for the Intranet. IT bought the license, only certain modules, and 
turned it loose to each department head to manage their own Intranet space. It 
is an ad-hoc nightmare, not to mention that only about half the departments 
moved their content into SharePoint so there is a mix.

TeamSite to SiteCore for the website. This provides a form interface for the 
person that enters page content and downloadable content. They are fed 
information off-the-cuff by product marketing managers. There is no mechanism 
for content reuse at all. It is an equal nightmare.

The mechanical group has a "vault" that requires SolidWorks to access. There is 
no file-level access that I can see. There is something similar for the 
electronic design group. The programmers use a GIT repository. All of the 
designs (PDF files) and software deliverables (executable/installation code) 
ultimately gets manually copied to an accessible network folder under and 
managed by corporate engineering services (CES).

The production lines and our customer service group use whatever they want, 
depending on the person, to develop mfg/assembly/test procedures, training 
programs, etc.  These are archived in department folders and managed by those 
individual teams and may include videos, podcasts, webinars, PowerPoint, Word, 
PDF, etc...

The design engineers write design concepts such as theory of operation, 
presentations, white papers, and other deeply technical stuff, using whatever 
they want and keeping wherever (local HDD, random network). The product 
marketing engineers/product managers write sales guides and application notes, 
and support all user/marketing content. These teams pass their deliverables 
directly to the Marketing/Web teams. The project managers are using OneNote to 
collect project activities and all related documents that may include Excel, 
Word, PPT, etc. files, or links to network folders and other Intranet locations.

Marcom uses Adobe creative suite, mostly InDesign and primarily contract the 
work out. There is also all of the typical marketing stuff like banners, 
magazine articles, video, webinars, etc...
The Pubs group uses unstructured FrameMaker and an old-fashioned book paradigm 
to create user manuals, and they are directly under Marcom. There are only a 
couple writers and each has their own product lines. Content re-use mostly 
comes in the form of a document that covers a particular topic or technology. 
For example, all of the boiler plate type stuff is in a separate guide that is 
associate with a number of like products.

Anything requiring revision control is managed in a Unix based ERP system that 
also manages inventory, BOM structures, order entry, etc. There is a 
"corporate" element of content as well.




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Re: [Framers] VSdocman Outputs to FM

[cuc tu]

Thank you for the suggestions.


I looked at VSdocman with the developer. He has downloaded a trial version, so 
it is not a product the company currently uses. It is also a plug-in to 
VisualBasic IDE, which I do not have or use. His basic workflow is to click a 
tool in VS provided by the installed plug-in, and then fill out a form with 
fields for all of the content elements related to that one API. Much of this is 
duplicate content or reused in various context, like creating a syntax example. 
It looks quite cumbersome to use for anything extensive (estimating ~1000 pg in 
PDF form, and ~250 pg developed so far).


I will have to be looking at new tools as it seems the content revolution is 
leaving FrameMaker. How are big companies really managing these workflows, 
however? What is happening is the developers are finding tools to add user 
content right into the source code, and then using utilities to provide full 
content dumps to tech pubs to process into final deliverables. It's all add-hoc 
and customized by each dev group. This is one developers solution to supporting 
user documentation.


I should post my thoughts in another thread.


Thanks,

C

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 09:01:06 -0800
From: "Monique Semp" 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Framers] VSdocman Outputs to FM
Message-ID: <5495A9F706E84A819133D344542E13AA@WQI1509Dell>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

Just wondering why the need to convert to FrameMaker at all? Why not just
use VSdocman and create the appropriate output
(http://www.helixoft.com/vsdocman/examples.html)? It purports to create
Examples of Documentation Generated by 
VSdocman
www.helixoft.com
Examples of Documentation Generated by VSdocman VSdocman is a Csharp and VB 
.NET code commenter and documentation generator. This is an example of a simple 
.NET class ...



HTML, CHM, PDF, XML, and more.

That would mean, of course, that the result would likely be strictly a
reference doc without much in the way of conceptual or task-focused info.
But it sounds like a reference is all that's being asked for.

-Monique

--

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2017 11:20:05 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: Monique Semp ,   "An email list for
people using Adobe FrameMaker software."

Subject: Re: [Framers] VSdocman Outputs to FM
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I agree, if there's an API doc generator, using it would certainly be
my first choice. You might also take a look at Document!X.

That said, recent releases of FrameMaker reportedly do a much better
job of importing Word.


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[Framers] VSdocman Outputs to FM

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


A software team manager came to me asking for help creating an API manual. They 
had a specialized developer create about 200 API's and they need a manual in 
about a week. The developer has no time for documentation. My programming 
skills are very limited, but I have some light experience with VBA and 
programming microcontrollers in C ala the typical maker movement. I'm not a 
programmer, so the developer has to contribute something to the effort. He has 
used VSdocman to get a start and can give me Word, xml, or HTML.


Because of the situation, I expect I will have to invent content for these APIs 
(they all look like small void functions to me), so I need to find a way to 
minimize the time to get any of these output types into my unstructured Frame 
template. The only solution I can think of is to write a script to replace all 
of the XML or HTML tagging with MML markup and then import that into 
FrameMaker, embed, and carry on the old fashioned way.


I have not really learned structure, but the damn has burst I know... Note that 
I actually wrote my own structured application and set up a structured document 
once many years ago. I kept the folder and tried opening the book again and was 
presented with a dialog to select the structured app. Several new Frame 
installs and lots of fog ended that journey.


Thanks for any tips.


C
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Re: [Framers] Questions about tech docs in an Agile environment (may be off-topic)

[cuc tu]

Pat,


My company has also migrated to an Agile workflow. We had no choice but to fall 
into a similar process. I read articles discussing concepts of documenting on 
time with each sprint vs. waiting for maturity and documenting late. Our teams 
run 3 week sprints and the expectation is that at the end of each sprint, there 
is product ready to enter the release process (which means regression test to 
mfg and staging final docs for publication). The reality is there are often 
failures in testing and most sprints do not complete a releasable package, and 
there are otherwise marketing activities that really control the public 
release. Like you, we typically have large quarterly releases. Also like you, 
we have avoided structured content so your story is of interest. I'm curious 
how many products/manuals is a lot?


We use Jira to manage workflows and track development activity. We are refining 
the fit between software and complementary activities, but the idea is that a 
software task for a sprint must also correlate to a publication task (when 
appropriate). Tasks can be bunched under a 'story' that defines all of the 
activity to complete a particular feature/enhancement, and we are then able to 
bunch our work accordingly and maintain a reasonable balance between the above 
two concepts.


I have tried to optimize our content development efficiency by creating more 
topic-centric, and less product/feature-centric deliverables that can be 
packaged and re-used in whole across multiple product lines. There are some 
specializations that complicate this, but the strategy has been effective. The 
deliverables are packaged into individual PDF files that define a complete 
document set for a particular product or product line. Some of these documents 
are very product specific, usually hardware related, and most of the 
task/reference content is more generic and can be reused for other products. We 
also create HTML Help content using ePublisher (WebWorks), and that can be 
context sensitive and embedded in our products as well as stand-alone on the 
web. The Help workflow is nice because we can package source content chunks in 
various ways to meet customer's needs. We also maintain a print publishing 
channel for customers that prefer that (which is rare, but still remarkable)
 .


>From this point, it is clear that we must look at newer techniques and embrace 
>a new paradigm. To me this means much more than just structured content, but 
>must include other aspects of the business and tie them into unity so that all 
>forms of information are accessible and present ready-use. I literally see a 
>unified system that all stakeholders, including the design engineers, 
>marketers, field sales staff, service, and training folks all using to develop 
>their content, internal or external, so that every bit of it is readily 
>accessible and properly managed. And then you can open a certain amount of 
>that up to a customer facing, self serving solution. The writers can then 
>focus on the small details of making great content and not worry about any of 
>the downstream processes.


OK, my manager suggests we look for a scalable tool just for our small writing 
group. I've heard some suggestions we look at Confluence and this thread has 
been my first exposure to Paligo. All the solutions look the same to me and are 
all equally as mysterious as what benefit they actually provide. I can 
understand the concept of structured content, and even DITA, but have no 
insight into the nuts and bolts of their use, overhead, and real returns. 
Sometimes the marketing seems to get in the way...


Thanks,
C

--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 22:43:16 +
From: Pat Christenson 
To: "fram...@frameusers.com" 
Subject: [Framers] Questions about tech docs in an Agile environment
(may be off-topic)
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My company has a very large suite of products and I'm the only tech writer. 
Software is developed in an agile environment, with some products releasing new 
features every 2 weeks. The largest product updates quarterly. I can easily 
spend almost a month on its release notes. We are using FrameMaker and 
publishing as a PDF.

In addition to keeping up with release notes (which are very detailed, if I 
didn't mention that), I'm supposed to be writing user & admin guides for the 
sub-products. The ones we have are hopelessly out-of-date.

With all this going on, by the time I finish a user guide, it is soon 
out-of-date and there just isn't time to transfer material from release notes 
to the user guide, repaginate, etc. and post it.

My team director and I are trying to come up with a more efficient way of 
getting this information to the user in a timely way and write much, much 
shorter release 

[Framers] Content Reviews (OT?)

[cuc tu]

Hi All,


I'm not sure if this group is solely interested in FM specific topics or 
generally as a writing community? just a question...


Any suggestions on robust document/content reviews by SME's? I've been using 
Acrobat Shared Reviews hosted on a SharePoint server for several years, but the 
popularity has dropped off quite a bit. Most engineers just don't want to use 
IE or any Adobe product, and even those that do have been upgraded to the DC 
versions and they are not playing well with Acrobat v11 that I use (or maybe 
just not at all?). I'm even having serious 'not responding' issues with my 
tracker and Acrobat in general just hanging... It seems Adobe is the waining 
product, but still has a foothold with no clear competitor, making any kind of 
transition difficult.


Thanks

C
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[Framers] OTS DITA and CMS

[cuc tu]

Hello All,


I'm looking for a quick and easy transition to a more modern workflow to help 
keep up with

software development. I've currently only authored in unstructured Frame under 
a book

paradigm, and am finding it impossible to track development. Basically, we have 
two writers

to support ~30 developers. The SW group has moved to an agile scrum process and 
create

software features in modular form. Then they are checked into the SW pool and 
tested by

another team who then publishes the FW releases to the Web team. The testing 
takes about 1

to 2 weeks and some features may not get released. Also, we do not really know 
when the SW

is released until it goes live (much of the process is automated and decisions 
happen

overnight). Dev cycles are three weeks and the software is usually not 
available until it

is checked in for testing since there are many dependencies.


I'd like to find a way to have content more modular and easy to snap-in/out 
like the

software folks can switch on/off software features. I've thought of trying this 
with

conditional text, but I think the complexity and granularity of what needs to 
be controlled

is too high. I'd also like for the writing resources to be more agile so they 
can work on

any document piece as needed. Right now, we move around and track "book" 
packages and

publish PDF books with incrementing revisions.


Any suggestions on how to proceed or where to look for some ideas?


Thanks,

C

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