Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[peterhaas]

> I have tried the Seagate
> drive with the jumpers set to either the "single drive" setting, or the
> "cable select" setting.  I have not tried the Quantum drive  with an
> alternative jumper setting.

Apple began using Cable Select cables with the B&W G3, after it had
licensed hp/Compaq's patent on cable select and the hardware in the host
adapter which supports it.

Cable Select involves cutting certain wires in the 40-pin/80-wire ribbon
cable, and the, using three different types of connectors, each of which
appears to be the same, but are internally different.

With a Beige, Apple was not using Cable Select, it was using
40-pin/40-wire ribbon cables, so your best option is ... on Rev 2 or Rev 3
ROM machines (this won't work on Rev 1 ROM machines) ... to set one drive
to Master and the other drive to Slave.

It is customary for the farthest away drive to be Master, but this is not
a real requirement as "masters" and "slaves" are really "peers".

On a B&W or later, simply set both drives to Cable Select.

Indeed, on a B&W and later, the Zip drive may be replaced by an additional
hard drive, although the Zip drive carrier is drilled for M3 retention
screws in a Zip pattern, and not for #6-32 UNC retention screws in a hard
drive patterd.

No matter, a hard drive may be installed in the Zip drive carrier without
screws, if that suits you.



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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[Iamanamma]

Success!  

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:00:38 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>
> I made some progress today, I have an old copy of DiskWarrior, and when I 
> started up from that CD, the new Seagate hard drive mounted (with the 
> jumpers set to cable select).  I ran DiskWarrior and then restarted from 
> the OS 8.6 CD. The drive mounted again.  Since the drive is a little on the 
> large side, I partitioned it as I have seen recommended.  Right now  the G3 
> is chugging along, installing OS 8.6 onto 7 GB partition I made in the hard 
> drive.  Wish me luck.  
>
>
> On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:16:58 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>>
>> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives.  I 
>> took one out because I thought it was bad.  Hard drive set up was not 
>> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus.  I was using an OS 8.6 install 
>> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.  I had a 
>> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up 
>> from the CD, and the same thing happened.  Nothing was visible on the ATA 
>> bus.  I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it. 
>>  This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and 
>> sure enough it was.  I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard), 
>> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive 
>> on the ATA bus.  Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 
>> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem?  The old drive I took out 
>> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need 
>> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>>
>

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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[Iamanamma]

I made some progress today, I have an old copy of DiskWarrior, and when I 
started up from that CD, the new Seagate hard drive mounted (with the 
jumpers set to cable select).  I ran DiskWarrior and then restarted from 
the OS 8.6 CD. The drive mounted again.  Since the drive is a little on the 
large side, I partitioned it as I have seen recommended.  Right now  the G3 
is chugging along, installing OS 8.6 onto 7 GB partition I made in the hard 
drive.  Wish me luck.  


On Monday, April 14, 2014 4:16:58 PM UTC-4, Iamanamma wrote:
>
> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives.  I took 
> one out because I thought it was bad.  Hard drive set up was not 
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus.  I was using an OS 8.6 install 
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.  I had a 
> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up 
> from the CD, and the same thing happened.  Nothing was visible on the ATA 
> bus.  I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it. 
>  This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and 
> sure enough it was.  I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard), 
> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive 
> on the ATA bus.  Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 
> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem?  The old drive I took out 
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need 
> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>

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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[Iamanamma]

I am only trying to have one hard drive installed at a time, and I want to 
set it up as the boot drive.  I am not quite sophisticated nor interested 
enough to figure out how to put two hard drives on my ATA bus, especially 
since I really want to keep that third drive bay open to take advantage of 
that nice SCSI cable sitting in there.  I have some even OLDER Macs I need 
to keep running, and they all require SCSI drives. I have tried the Seagate 
drive with the jumpers set to either the "single drive" setting, or the 
"cable select" setting.  I have not tried the Quantum drive  with an 
alternative jumper setting.


On Monday, April 14, 2014 10:17:53 PM UTC-4, mhfadams wrote:
>
> On Apr 14, 2014, at 13:16 , Iamanamma wrote:
>
> > I took one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not 
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus.  I was using > an OS 8.6 install 
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.
>
> You had two drives, or just one?
> If two, is it the boot drive that was suspect, or the other one?
>
> > Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 8.6? 
>
> Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive 
> technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that 8.6 
> didn't.
> The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine 
> have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
> Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?
>
> Is it the Seagate that is only being seen by OS 9.2? or the Quantum ?
>
> > Could this be a simple as a jumper problem?  The old drive I took out 
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate.
>
> Yes, it could be, but if OS 9 is seeing the drive and OS 8 is not, then 
> that is less likely.
>
> If you have two drives installed, and one is set to 'master' or 'slave' 
> then the other drive needs to be set to the other setting.
> If one drive is 'cable select' then so should the other.
>
>
>
> Manoah F. Adams
> federaladamsfamily.com/developer
>
>

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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[peterhaas]

> Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive
> technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that
> 8.6
> didn't.
> The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine
> have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
> Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?


The Subject stated "G3, 266 mhz tower", and most of those were made with
Rev 1 ROMs, which only support Masters, and possibly only 128 GB.

A Rev 2 or 3 ROM will support Slaves, of course.

It has been a LONG time that I have had my Beige powered-on, but a 300 MHz
pretty much required a Rev 2 ROM, and the Rev 3 ROM was released because
it cured issues with certain video cards and the Rev 2 ROM.

In any case, the beige used DMA mode, and it was the UATA in the Blue and
White which got into trouble with greater than 128 MB drives, until the
UATA chip was fixed.



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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[mhfadams]

On Apr 14, 2014, at 13:16 , Iamanamma wrote:

> I took one out because I thought it was bad. Hard drive set up was not 
recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus.  I was using > an OS 8.6 install 
disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.

You had two drives, or just one?
If two, is it the boot drive that was suspect, or the other one?

> Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS 8.6? 

Newer systems are always being updated to handle improved drive 
technologies, so it is quite possible that 9.2 would see something that 8.6 
didn't.
The size of the drives is also important, as every OS version and machine 
have their own limits. Is the Seagate larger than the Quantum?
Is the Seagate larger that 128 GB ?

Is it the Seagate that is only being seen by OS 9.2? or the Quantum ?

> Could this be a simple as a jumper problem?  The old drive I took out was 
a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate.

Yes, it could be, but if OS 9 is seeing the drive and OS 8 is not, then 
that is less likely.

If you have two drives installed, and one is set to 'master' or 'slave' 
then the other drive needs to be set to the other setting.
If one drive is 'cable select' then so should the other.



Manoah F. Adams
federaladamsfamily.com/developer

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Re: Hard Drive problem with G3, 266 mhz tower

[W.Adrian D'Alessio]

Starting with the extremely simple basics  you ahve already;

1. Cleaned all port and cable end connections with an old toothbrush and
contact cleaner or  isopropyl alcohol. Scrubbing them thoroughly.

2. After plugging them in and trying to boot up, wiggled the cables along
their length to see it you could hear any tentative sounds from the hard
drive.

3. Inspected  cables for damage of any kind.

4. Made a continuity check on any suspect cables.

5. dumped the PRAM.

6. Reset the CUDA switch on the motherboard  ( I cannot recall if that is
PCI  only.)

7. Made sure the motherboard battery is in good shape.



On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Iamanamma  wrote:

> I am having trouble getting this old Mac to recognize hard drives.  I took
> one out because I thought it was bad.  Hard drive set up was not
> recognizing the hard drive on the ATA bus.  I was using an OS 8.6 install
> disk to start up so I could re-format it and re-install the OS.  I had a
> new ATA hard drive, so I took the old one out and replaced it. I started up
> from the CD, and the same thing happened.  Nothing was visible on the ATA
> bus.  I got out another install disk, 9.2 this time, and restarted from it.
>  This time I used Apple System Profiler to see if anything was there, and
> sure enough it was.  I re-initialized the disk (Macintosh OS Standard),
> shut down and started up from the OS 8.6 disk again. Again, no hard drive
> on the ATA bus.  Why on earth would OS 9.2 recognize the drive, but not OS
> 8.6? Could this be a simple as a jumper problem?  The old drive I took out
> was a Quantum Fireball, the new one I put in is a Seagate. I really need
> this unit to be running OS 8.6 and not 9.
>
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Re: Hard drive woes

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jul 11, 2011, at 11:55 AM, Wayne Garrett wrote:

> I was able to repair one drive and did a clean install of 10.5.  It
> seems all my trouble starts with screwed up updates.  Our satalite ISP
> seems to mess up and the Apple server is horribly slow.  The other
> drive is not seeming to repair.  The one I am booting from now is my
> backup.  I guess next I should re-format my main drive.

For updates, then, do NOT use Software Update; go to Apple's web site and 
download them individually.

Failed updates, though, will mess up the OS, NOT the underlying drive 
formatting or directory structure. If you're finding 'disk corruption' that's 
recurring, it's quite possibly a sign of impending drive failure...I've seen 
that a number of times.

Also if these drives are as old as the Mac...well, they're getting old, failing 
so near each other could be sheer coincidence.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Hard drive woes

[Wayne Garrett]

I was able to repair one drive and did a clean install of 10.5.  It
seems all my trouble starts with screwed up updates.  Our satalite ISP
seems to mess up and the Apple server is horribly slow.  The other
drive is not seeming to repair.  The one I am booting from now is my
backup.  I guess next I should re-format my main drive.

On 7/11/11, Dan  wrote:
> At 12:00 AM -0500 7/11/2011, Wayne Garrett wrote:
>>I have been having problems with hard drive corruption on both SATA
>>drives in My G5 Dual 1.8.  Could it be the built in SATA controller?
>>I just fixed one drive only to have the other get messed up.  Any
>>ideas??
>
> What type of corruption?
>
> Yes, the controller is a possibility, since there are problems on
> both drives.  But it could be quite a few other things too -- you
> haven't provided any details about your system or software.
>
> Clean and reseat the SATA connectors.  If you have a SATA card, try it.
>
> Check your system.log for disk or controller related errors.
>
> - Dan.
> --
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.
>
> --
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Re: Hard drive woes

[Dan]

At 12:00 AM -0500 7/11/2011, Wayne Garrett wrote:
I have been having problems with hard drive corruption on both SATA 
drives in My G5 Dual 1.8.  Could it be the built in SATA controller? 
I just fixed one drive only to have the other get messed up.  Any 
ideas??


What type of corruption?

Yes, the controller is a possibility, since there are problems on 
both drives.  But it could be quite a few other things too -- you 
haven't provided any details about your system or software.


Clean and reseat the SATA connectors.  If you have a SATA card, try it.

Check your system.log for disk or controller related errors.

- Dan.
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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Illirik Smirnov]

Hitachi seems to be doing very well. I have a 1TB drive in my Quad G5
that works fantastically, with 64MB! cache. Paid $129ish for it last
year; got it from a local parts store. Better than the old IBM
DeathStars they inherited.

Either way, I'd take 1TB/64M/7200 over 2TB/32M/7200. Most important is
the rev speed followed by the cache. I want to upgrade to a 10K drive,
but none are cheap and work with my beloved Gs.

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Dan  wrote:
> At 5:14 PM -0500 1/31/2011, John Callahan wrote:
>>
>> why would a 32 MB cache, same drive, be cheaper than a 16MB cache drive?
>
> As technology advances the newer components end up being less expensive than
> the older.
>
> But really, HD pricing has very little to do with specifications, these
> days.  It's all about sales, rebates, and volume - and vendors betting that
> consumers are too stoopid to google around.
>
> - Dan.
> --
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.
>
> --
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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Dan]

At 5:14 PM -0500 1/31/2011, John Callahan wrote:

why would a 32 MB cache, same drive, be cheaper than a 16MB cache drive?


As technology advances the newer components end up being less 
expensive than the older.


But really, HD pricing has very little to do with specifications, 
these days.  It's all about sales, rebates, and volume - and vendors 
betting that consumers are too stoopid to google around.


- Dan.
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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Jonas Ulrich]

I just bought a Hitachi 1TB hard drive for newegg for $50 shipped. Seems to
work great.

-Jonas

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[John Callahan]

Thanks for your help. Another question, why would a 32 MB cache, same  
drive, be cheaper than a 16MB cache drive?

On Jan 29, 2011, at 10:18 PM, Dan wrote:






I'm not as young as I used to be But
I'm not as old as I'm going to be!
SO WATCH IT!!!

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[imrazor]

On Jan 30, 2:16 am, Jason Brown  wrote:
> It is a WD though. Couldn't pay me to use one. YMMV but MM has been very
> very bad with them.

I've had bad luck with WD AND Seagate drives. The only brands I've not
had fail on me are Fujitsu and Samsung, but I use those pretty rarely.
The 5 year Seagate warranty is nice, though. If you want to count on
that, though, I think you have to buy a retail drive as opposed to a
bare/OEM model.

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[JoeTaxpayer]

Fair enough.
I have 5 MDD G4s, along with (too many) TiVos. In 25 Mac years, I've
only had one drive fail me, a Seagate in a TiVo. Never had a failed
Maxtor or WD. (I know Seagate bought Maxtor)  So for me, I have no
significant failure experience on any drives. The one SG was under
warranty, and they swapped it out based on date code, no hassle over
no receipt, and gave me a UPS label. So that fail gave me good vibes
on their cust service.

On Jan 30, 3:16 am, Jason Brown  wrote:
> It is a WD though. Couldn't pay me to use one. YMMV but MM has been very
> very bad with them.

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Jason Brown]

It is a WD though. Couldn't pay me to use one. YMMV but MM has been very 
very bad with them.


On 1/29/2011 10:34 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

Ben's bargains has a 2TB WD from New Egg for $70 after rebate.  2TB!

On Jan 29, 10:54 pm, Sean Carroll  wrote:

Current (failing) is a Seagate ST3250824AS 250GB Hard Drive.

Seagate Barracuda, 3.5", 7200rpm, 8 MB cache, SATA.

Seeking recommendations for replacement.
Operator Headgap has a factory recertified Seagate Barracuda, 3.5",  
7200 RPM, 32 MB cache, SATA, 750 GB going for $59 and change.


http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13626219&-
db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-
Max=40&category=intdrivessata&-find

Sean


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Re: Hard drive failing!

[JoeTaxpayer]

Ben's bargains has a 2TB WD from New Egg for $70 after rebate.  2TB!

On Jan 29, 10:54 pm, Sean Carroll  wrote:
> >> Current (failing) is a Seagate ST3250824AS 250GB Hard Drive.
>
> > Seagate Barracuda, 3.5", 7200rpm, 8 MB cache, SATA.
>
> >> Seeking recommendations for replacement.
>
> Operator Headgap has a factory recertified Seagate Barracuda, 3.5",  
> 7200 RPM, 32 MB cache, SATA, 750 GB going for $59 and change.
>
> http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13626219&-
> db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&-
> Max=40&category=intdrivessata&-find
>
> Sean

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Sean Carroll]

Sorry, John - here's a shorter link you won't have to copy and paste:

http://resale.headgap.com/

I'm sure you can find your way from there.

Sean

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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Sean Carroll]

Current (failing) is a Seagate ST3250824AS 250GB Hard Drive.


Seagate Barracuda, 3.5", 7200rpm, 8 MB cache, SATA.


Seeking recommendations for replacement.


Operator Headgap has a factory recertified Seagate Barracuda, 3.5",  
7200 RPM, 32 MB cache, SATA, 750 GB going for $59 and change.


http://stn2.headgap.com/resale/FMPro?-token=13626219&- 
db=ProductsC.fp3&-lay=WEB&-format=items.htm&-sortfield=SortID&- 
Max=40&category=intdrivessata&-find


Sean


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Re: Hard drive failing!

[Dan]

At 6:09 PM -0500 1/29/2011, John Callahan wrote:

Current (failing) is a Seagate ST3250824AS 250GB Hard Drive.


Seagate Barracuda, 3.5", 7200rpm, 8 MB cache, SATA.


Seeking recommendations for replacement.


Above specs, but with a bigger cache.  Currently I think 1 TB drives 
are going for $60 or less.


Google around and be sure to check local sales.  Office Despot is 
pretty good sometimes.  Don't be afraid to buy an external and remove 
the drive mechanism from it.


I've gotten quite a few Hitachi and Seagates recently.  My personal 
preference is to avoid WD.


LEM Swap.
eBay.
Meritline.
Amazon.
OWC.
MacConnection.
eCost (mostly refirbs but some new).

FWIW,
- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Question re hard drive jumper settings for cable select on quicksilver single processor 867 MHz

[Peter Haas]

On Sep 19, 2010, at 8:40 AM, John Carmonne wrote:


1. set the jumper settings (Seagate hard drives) to master ie
( |: : : : ) and slave ( : : : : )
Or,

2. set the jumpers to ‘cable select’ ( : |: : : ) on both?

Sorry but a lot of conflicting info around.
I would try cable select on both, all that maters is if they work.  
My PM MDD uses cable select throughout and I also use cable select  
on my Cubes.


Either will work, but be consistent.

Apple implemented the HP/Compaq patent for cable select, but only  
part of it ... the part which is executed at power-on. After power- 
on, it is behaving as Master/Slave, but as we all know, Master and  
Slave are not that at all ... they are peers.


I always set my drives to Master (for the last and first drive) and  
Slave (for the next-to-last and second drive, if present).


The optical drive is also on a cable select cable, but it is set by  
Apple to Master.


Whenever I install an additional HD in the Zip carrier, it is set to  
Slave.



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Re: Question re hard drive jumper settings for cable select on quicksilver single processor 867 MHz

[John Carmonne]

On Sep 19, 2010, at 7:23 AM, benreviug wrote:

> Dear List,
> 
> hi. sorry but I’ve really found this difficult to find info on the
> net. My quicksilver has what looks like cable select cables for both
> the hard drive bus and the dvd-r / zip bus, (blue connector for m/
> board, grey for slave, black for primary drive) so when using a new
> hard drive should I
> 
> 1. set the jumper settings (Seagate hard drives) to master ie
> ( |: : : : ) and slave ( : : : : )
> Or,
> 
> 2. set the jumpers to ‘cable select’ ( : |: : : ) on both?
> 
> Sorry but a lot of conflicting info around.
I would try cable select on both, all that maters is if they work. My PM MDD 
uses cable select throughout and I also use cable select on my Cubes.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA
Sent from my MBP



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Question re hard drive jumper settings for cable select on quicksilver single processor 867 MHz

[benreviug]

Dear List,

hi. sorry but I’ve really found this difficult to find info on the
net. My quicksilver has what looks like cable select cables for both
the hard drive bus and the dvd-r / zip bus, (blue connector for m/
board, grey for slave, black for primary drive) so when using a new
hard drive should I

1. set the jumper settings (Seagate hard drives) to master ie
( |: : : : ) and slave ( : : : : )
Or,

2. set the jumpers to ‘cable select’ ( : |: : : ) on both?

Sorry but a lot of conflicting info around.

All the best

Ben guiver
07958 658569
London uk

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Carmonne]

In a message dated 3/22/10 11:16:42 AM, ktilfo...@cox.net writes:


> On Mar 22, 2010, at 12:45 PM, carmo...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> > One good thing about Seagate is the 5 year warranty, no receipt 
> > necessary.
> 
> Not true. I have two Seagate HDs that I bought off LEM-Swap that are 
> brand new, both with less than 10 hours total time, manufactured in 
> 2009. I assumed they would be covered by the 5 year warranty, but 
> alas, these drives were removed from external enclosures, and thus, 
> the 5 year warranty was voided. I was so mad I could scream. These HDs 
> are IDENTICAL to every other Seagate HD I've ever seen, and yet 
> because they're not inside the original external enclosure they were 
> sold in they get ZERO warranty even though they're brand spanking new. 
> I don't think this is fair. Their explanation was, "would you warranty 
> a motor that had been removed from it's car", and I said, "when your 
> business is selling motors and not cars I think this answer is yes". 
> It didn't help, I out $250 for brand new Seagate HDs. Buyer beware for 
> used Seagate hardware, even if it's "new".
> 
Thanks for the heads up. I've not been in that postion yet. That's kinda a 
bummer because if the drive needs to be in a machine to display SMART info 
then I guess you wait till the thing pukes on you if it's in an enclosure? 
That sucks.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda
USA

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Kris Tilford]

On Mar 22, 2010, at 12:45 PM, carmo...@aol.com wrote:

One good thing about Seagate is the 5 year warranty, no receipt  
necessary.


Not true. I have two Seagate HDs that I bought off LEM-Swap that are  
brand new, both with less than 10 hours total time, manufactured in  
2009. I assumed they would be covered by the 5 year warranty, but  
alas, these drives were removed from external enclosures, and thus,  
the 5 year warranty was voided. I was so mad I could scream. These HDs  
are IDENTICAL to every other Seagate HD I've ever seen, and yet  
because they're not inside the original external enclosure they were  
sold in they get ZERO warranty even though they're brand spanking new.  
I don't think this is fair. Their explanation was, "would you warranty  
a motor that had been removed from it's car", and I said, "when your  
business is selling motors and not cars I think this answer is yes".  
It didn't help, I out $250 for brand new Seagate HDs. Buyer beware for  
used Seagate hardware, even if it's "new".


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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[Carmonne]

> 
> 
> That sounds good, but I'd still appreciate it if you could update this
> thread with your experiences going through their RMA process. I've
> never had to do it myself and I'm curious how it will turn out for
> you. Especially since you won't (right?) be able to give them any
> feedback from their SeaTools diagnostic tool.
> 
> 
> When you first regester on the site they ask the nature of your requet. I 
stated that I have a ST3500 that is exibiting a S.M.A.R.T error. After you 
get a case# then go to the Warranty return page.

On the warranty return page there are selections for the make, model and OS 
for the Apple machines, also on their site is a button named "escalate to 
tech support" this will bypass the SeaTools issue.   They will e-mail back an 
RMA# and complete return instruction including shipping label. 
It's pretty easy to use I had to try a couple of shots at it due to my own 
lack of reading the form properly. They are really trying to support the 
products with exceptional service. 

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda
USA

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Carmonne]

> > The only drives I've had fail in ten years are Maxtor and Toshiba.
> 
> Then you're lucky. We've had drives of every manufacturer fail.
> 
> 
> 
One good thing about Seagate is the 5 year warranty, no receipt nessasary. 
They just sent me an RMA# with free shipping included.   Glad to own stock 
in the company.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda
USA

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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[iJohn]

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 12:02 AM, John Carmonne  wrote:
>
> The seagate site includes Apple and all the OS's as tabbed choices while 
> filling
> out the online form, so the Apple PC issue are no problem

That sounds good, but I'd still appreciate it if you could update this
thread with your experiences going through their RMA process. I've
never had to do it myself and I'm curious how it will turn out for
you. Especially since you won't (right?) be able to give them any
feedback from their SeaTools diagnostic tool.

-irrational john

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 4:06 PM, John Carmonne wrote:



I have mostly seagate drives and I've never had one fail.  I've got  
a few western digitals and they've held up.  The hitachi in my  
iBook has 2 years on it and looks good.  2 samsung 500GB SATA's in  
my main tower have 3 years of hard service on them.  I haven't ever  
had a maxtor last more than a year or so.

--

The only drives I've had fail in ten years are Maxtor and Toshiba.


Then you're lucky. We've had drives of every manufacturer fail.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 9:02 PM, John Carmonne wrote:



The seagate site includes Apple and all the OS's as tabbed choices  
while filling out the online form, so the Apple PC issue are no  
problem besides I think the S.M.A.R.T is the test bed factor for the  
drives, I understand the drive is generating the warning and not the  
machine??




SMART warnings are generated by the controller onboard the drive, yes.  
*Reading* that data requires the native controller on the host, which  
is why you can[t access SMART data via USB enclosures. SMART was  
designed for use on internal system and data drives.


--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

The seagate site includes Apple and all the OS's as tabbed choices while 
filling out the online form, so the Apple PC issue are no problem besides I 
think the S.M.A.R.T is the test bed factor for the drives, I understand the 
drive is generating the warning and not the machine??


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[iJohn]

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 11:26 PM, John Carmonne  wrote:
>
> I made a request for warranty service from Seagate's
> site so maybe I'll get lucky on this one.
>

Hm, this didn't occur to me before but whenever I've looked at
going down the RMA under warranty path before I've always been in a
Windows PC frame of mind. I'm not sure how they work things when
you're using a Mac, especially a PPC Mac.

I am used to a manufacturer asking to first have the drive checked by
running their own diagnostic program. Of course, I wouldn't be at all
surprised if whatever diagnostic program they want used only runs on a
windows (or at least x86) PC.

Not saying they won't replace the drive if it's defective. Just saying
I'm not quite sure how Seagate will ask you to handle this.

Maybe someone else on the list has already done a drive RMA for a PPC
Mac and can flesh out how that worked for them?

-irrational john

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

> 
> The warranty period is determined based on when the drive was
> manufactured. If you go to the support section of the Seagate web site
> you'll find a web page there which will let you check the warranty on
> your drive. You'll be asked to enter the serial number of your drive
> (... and possibly the model number?).
> 
> -irrational john


I made a request for warranty service from Seagate's site so maybe I'll get 
lucky on this one. 

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

> The drive manufacturers don't care when you bought the drive.  The
> serial number of your drive is used to determine when the warranty on
> it expires.
> 
> The warranty period is determined based on when the drive was
> manufactured. If you go to the support section of the Seagate web site
> you'll find a web page there which will let you check the warranty on
> your drive. You'll be asked to enter the serial number of your drive
> (... and possibly the model number?).


As soon as the drive is done being copied I'll check for the warranty, Thanks 
for this info.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[iJohn]

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 5:31 PM, John Carmonne  wrote:
> I ran the verify and also the repair with Drive Genius 2. Now I'll run
> the integrity Sustained Write test and see what that produces.

It is usally pointed out in situations such as this one that only YOU
know how valuable your data is to you.

If it were me and I had seen a drive failure indication I thought
potentially credible then I wouldn't even look at the icon of a test
program until I had backed up/saved any data I truly valued from that
drive. I certainly wouldn't run any type of sustained test which might
elicit a drive failure until I'd backed up all that I could.

Once the data is "safe", then I'd happily true to beat the crap out of
it with hopes of returning it under warranty. But I'd only do that
after I saved as much of my data as could.

But maybe that's just me.

> I think the drive is about a year and a half old so I wonder about
> Seatate giving me a new one also I don't have the receipt.

The drive manufacturers don't care when you bought the drive.  The
serial number of your drive is used to determine when the warranty on
it expires.

The warranty period is determined based on when the drive was
manufactured. If you go to the support section of the Seagate web site
you'll find a web page there which will let you check the warranty on
your drive. You'll be asked to enter the serial number of your drive
(... and possibly the model number?).

-irrational john

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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

>> 
> I have mostly seagate drives and I've never had one fail.  I've got a few 
> western digitals and they've held up.  The hitachi in my iBook has 2 years on 
> it and looks good.  2 samsung 500GB SATA's in my main tower have 3 years of 
> hard service on them.  I haven't ever had a maxtor last more than a year or 
> so.   
> -- 
The only drives I've had fail in ten years are Maxtor and Toshiba.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[void]

Mark Sokolovsky wrote:


I understand that a hard drive made by seagate would fail. I have
had 3 had drives for my laptop all from segate, and they all
failed. now i have my western digital HDD 750GB and it works for 2
years now. also, my windows server 2008 system back at mt place
has had a hard drive replacement from segate, and i got western
digital drives for it, now it runs smoothly. Here's a tip: unless
you want your data lost, I won't ever recommend a seagate hdd. buy
a western digital or one made by maxtor, ibm, or apple. Segate
drives have low quality and most crash within the first 1-3 years.
I am not saying any crap, i am simply stating the facts based on
the events that happened to me, my friends, and others who buy
seagate drives. if you are one of those lucky people who don't
have segate drives die on you, then well, obviousy you have a
"Rare" good drive that was made by seagate. its not the company
that is bad, it's the drives and the way they make them, and the
parts. =(. I'm sorry but it's true.

 
I have mostly seagate drives and I've never had one fail.  I've got a 
few western digitals and they've held up.  The hitachi in my iBook has 2 
years on it and looks good.  2 samsung 500GB SATA's in my main tower 
have 3 years of hard service on them.  I haven't ever had a maxtor last 
more than a year or so.   


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Re: Hard drive failing

[void]

Chance Reecher wrote:
Apple doesn't make hard drives, they just stick their logo on drives 
made by other manufacturers.






I wonder if apple drives have different firmware? 


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Re: Hard drive failing

[Chance Reecher]

Apple doesn't make hard drives, they just stick their logo on drives 
made by other manufacturers.



 buy a western digital or one made by maxtor, ibm, or apple.



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Re: Hard drive failing

[Mark Sokolovsky]

>
>  I understand that a hard drive made by seagate would fail. I have had 3
> had drives for my laptop all from segate, and they all failed. now i have my
> western digital HDD 750GB and it works for 2 years now. also, my windows
> server 2008 system back at mt place has had a hard drive replacement from
> segate, and i got western digital drives for it, now it runs smoothly.
> Here's a tip: unless you want your data lost, I won't ever recommend a
> seagate hdd. buy a western digital or one made by maxtor, ibm, or apple.
> Segate drives have low quality and most crash within the first 1-3 years. I
> am not saying any crap, i am simply stating the facts based on the events
> that happened to me, my friends, and others who buy seagate drives. if you
> are one of those lucky people who don't have segate drives die on you, then
> well, obviousy you have a "Rare" good drive that was made by seagate. its
> not the company that is bad, it's the drives and the way they make them, and
> the parts. =(. I'm sorry but it's true.
>

Sorry buddy, you are in the same tight corner that i was in when my laptop
died on me.,

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Peter Kim]

Most external drive enclosures and docks do not have the ability to work
with SMART.  Most docks/enclosures don't have the firmware to allow SMART
info to pass.  This is unrelated to usb or firewire or ide or sata.  If
SMART Utility says the drive is failing, it's failing.  It can't tell you
how much time you have, it can only mention that signs of failure exist.

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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

>> 
>> 
> 
> Which Drive Genius 2 test did you run? I suspect you just ran the Scan (for 
> bad sector) test. I've got a stack of drives that pass that, multiple times. 
> But the same drives have failed the Integrity Check test, especially when set 
> to do Sustained Read and/or Sustained Write for more than 5 minutes (I use 30 
> minutes most of the time). 
> 

I ran the verify and also the repair with Drive Genius 2. Now I'll run the 
integrity Sustained Write test and see what that produces.

> SMART is much more sophisticated. It looks for and picks up all kinds of 
> anomalies that Drive Genius 2, Disk Utility and DiskWarrior don't. It only 
> takes one little anomaly to turn the icon red, if I understand correctly. 
> That's an early warning of impending failure. I've seen drives run for months 
> with a red icon, and I've seen them die shortly after the icon turns red. It 
> all depends on the failure mode(s). Click on the SmartReporter icon and then 
> Display Log, which should give an indication of the type of failure the 
> built-in self-diagnostic SMART utility has found.
> 
> Whatever you do, make sure you get a new drive and that Seagate replaces the 
> one with a SMART warning.
> 
> Jim Scott
> 
I think the drive is about a year and a half old so I wonder about Seatate 
giving me a new one also I don't have the receipt.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[Jim Scott]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:10 AM, John Carmonne wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Jim Scott wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:02 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
>>> 
 I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? 
 Because when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> SMART reporting is done on the hard drive itself, so if SMART is reporting 
>>> a failure, then the drive is bad.
>>> 
>>> I'd return it to seagate for replacement under warrantee.
>> 
>> Agreed. To confirm the Seagate is failing, put it in another machine on 
>> which SMARTReporter is installed. In my experience, hard drives with SMART 
>> capabilities lose them when installed in an external drive. That's why a 
>> utility like Drive Genius 2 comes in handy when sorting out external drive 
>> issues.
>> 
>> 
> I ran Drive Genius 2 on the drive and it passed but back in the SMART 
> situation it continues to fail. Disk Utility and DiskWarrior also pass it in 
> an external enclosure.

Which Drive Genius 2 test did you run? I suspect you just ran the Scan (for bad 
sector) test. I've got a stack of drives that pass that, multiple times. But 
the same drives have failed the Integrity Check test, especially when set to do 
Sustained Read and/or Sustained Write for more than 5 minutes (I use 30 minutes 
most of the time). 

SMART is much more sophisticated. It looks for and picks up all kinds of 
anomalies that Drive Genius 2, Disk Utility and DiskWarrior don't. It only 
takes one little anomaly to turn the icon red, if I understand correctly. 
That's an early warning of impending failure. I've seen drives run for months 
with a red icon, and I've seen them die shortly after the icon turns red. It 
all depends on the failure mode(s). Click on the SmartReporter icon and then 
Display Log, which should give an indication of the type of failure the 
built-in self-diagnostic SMART utility has found.

Whatever you do, make sure you get a new drive and that Seagate replaces the 
one with a SMART warning.

Jim Scott

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Eric Volker]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Eric Volker wrote:



I ran Drive Genius 2 on the drive and it passed but back in the  
SMART situation it continues to fail. Disk Utility and DiskWarrior  
also pass it in an external enclosure.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA
This is merely anecdotal evidence, but I had a 500GB SATA Seagate  
come up with a SMART failure in an app called "SMART Utility", but  
both Disk Utility and SMART Reporter passed it. SMART Reporter  
showed much more detail than just a generic SMART status; it showed  
that
^ This should be SMART Utility, *not* SMART Reporter. My bad, and  
apologies to the list.


Eric

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Eric Volker]

I ran Drive Genius 2 on the drive and it passed but back in the  
SMART situation it continues to fail. Disk Utility and DiskWarrior  
also pass it in an external enclosure.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA
This is merely anecdotal evidence, but I had a 500GB SATA Seagate come  
up with a SMART failure in an app called "SMART Utility", but both  
Disk Utility and SMART Reporter passed it. SMART Reporter showed much  
more detail than just a generic SMART status; it showed that the drive  
had overheated in the past, and had 7 bad sectors that couldn't be  
remapped. That drive did eventually die, so proceed with caution.


SMART Utility is a paid app, but will let you run it for free a few  
times in demo mode.



Eric

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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[Bill Connelly]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 2:17 PM, John Carmonne wrote:

The drive is PATA I put it in an external enclosure to be able to  
run Drive Genius 2,  Disk Utility and DiskWarrior on it connected to  
the G5 PM via Firewire because the G4 MDD chokes on the drive.


Its probably bad ... by choking if you mean folders  on it don't open  
right away ... spinning beach ball ... etc. Maybe replace the ATA  
cable if it was crimped ... but its probably gone bad.


Might check out SATA controller and HDs as well ... PATAs are  
supposedly becoming scarce. Nevertheless, I believe an ATA133 PATA HD  
will be fine on a ATA100 bus.


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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:10 AM, iJohn wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM, John Carmonne  wrote:
>> I removed the drive and put it in an external enclosure an connected it
>> to my PM G5 Dual 2.7 and it functioned properly except I can't verify
>> S.M.A.R.T. because its IDE and the G5 is SATA.
> 
> Most likely the reason you can not access the S.M.A.R.T. data has
> nothing to do with IDE versus SATA but is a consequence of using an
> external enclosure.
> 
> (FWIW, I'm not sure what you meant by the above. Are you implying that
> the hard drive you are having problems with is a PATA drive? If that's
> true and your G5 is SATA, then how were you using the drive in your
> G5?)
The drive is PATA I put it in an external enclosure to be able to run Drive 
Genius 2,  Disk Utility and DiskWarrior on it connected to the G5 PM via 
Firewire because the G4 MDD chokes on the drive.
John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Jim Scott wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:02 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? 
>>> Because when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning.
>> 
>> 
>> SMART reporting is done on the hard drive itself, so if SMART is reporting a 
>> failure, then the drive is bad.
>> 
>> I'd return it to seagate for replacement under warrantee.
> 
> Agreed. To confirm the Seagate is failing, put it in another machine on which 
> SMARTReporter is installed. In my experience, hard drives with SMART 
> capabilities lose them when installed in an external drive. That's why a 
> utility like Drive Genius 2 comes in handy when sorting out external drive 
> issues.
> 
> 
I ran Drive Genius 2 on the drive and it passed but back in the SMART situation 
it continues to fail. Disk Utility and DiskWarrior also pass it in an external 
enclosure.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: [Bulk] Re: Hard drive failing

[iJohn]

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:02 PM, John Carmonne  wrote:
> I removed the drive and put it in an external enclosure an connected it
> to my PM G5 Dual 2.7 and it functioned properly except I can't verify
> S.M.A.R.T. because its IDE and the G5 is SATA.

Most likely the reason you can not access the S.M.A.R.T. data has
nothing to do with IDE versus SATA but is a consequence of using an
external enclosure.

(FWIW, I'm not sure what you meant by the above. Are you implying that
the hard drive you are having problems with is a PATA drive? If that's
true and your G5 is SATA, then how were you using the drive in your
G5?)

Unless you are using eSATA, you won't be able to access the S.M.A.R.T.
data. My understanding is that there is no support in (the current)
protocol used to attach an external drive via USB to retrieve
S.M.A.R.T. data. I'm guessing (but don't know for certain) that this
is also the case with firewire attached external drives.

This is extremely annoying (to me) but I don't know of any way around
it if you use USB to access the external drive.

I remember reading a vague comment once that some extension to the
mass storage attachment protocol (?) was planned which would allow
accessing S.M.A.R.T. data from USB attached drives. I'm not holding my
breath waiting for it to show up. (Maybe it'll work with USB 3.0? One
can dream, no? :)

-irrational john

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Jim Scott]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:02 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? Because 
>> when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning.
> 
> 
> SMART reporting is done on the hard drive itself, so if SMART is reporting a 
> failure, then the drive is bad.
> 
> I'd return it to seagate for replacement under warrantee.

Agreed. To confirm the Seagate is failing, put it in another machine on which 
SMARTReporter is installed. In my experience, hard drives with SMART 
capabilities lose them when installed in an external drive. That's why a 
utility like Drive Genius 2 comes in handy when sorting out external drive 
issues.

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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> 
> On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:02 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? Because 
>> when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning.
> 
> 
> SMART reporting is done on the hard drive itself, so if SMART is reporting a 
> failure, then the drive is bad.
> 
> I'd return it to seagate for replacement under warrantee.
> 
> -- 
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group


Thanks for the excuse to be off to Fry's in search of a suitable replacement. 

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:08 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

> On Mar 21, 2010, at 12:02 PM, John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>> I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? Because 
>> when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning.
> 
> If you use something like SMARTReporter you'll get a full readout of what 
> problems it's finding with the HD.


OK so does this mean my processor is not an issue here? Also can I put a an 
Ultra ATA 133 HDD in the G4 MDD it has a ATA 100 now and the BUS speed is 100.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 10:02 AM, John Carmonne wrote:

I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD?  
Because when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T  
warning.



SMART reporting is done on the hard drive itself, so if SMART is  
reporting a failure, then the drive is bad.


I'd return it to seagate for replacement under warrantee.

--
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: Hard drive failing

[Kris Tilford]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 12:02 PM, John Carmonne wrote:

I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD?  
Because when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T  
warning.


If you use something like SMARTReporter you'll get a full readout of  
what problems it's finding with the HD.


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Re: Hard drive failing

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 21, 2010, at 1:42 AM, Mike Linnett wrote:

> I'd give data rescue ii a go on it, I think they have a free trial, and 
> you'll need at least one drive with a fair bit of free space on it
> 
> On 21 Mar 2010, at 08:24, John Carmonne  wrote:
> 
>> Hi All
>> 
>> I have a Seagate 500 Gig in a G4 MDD that just showed red and the S.M.A.R.T 
>> says it's failing and I can't get files off it. Anyone know a way to get the 
>> files off? I have 320 GIGs of movies on it.
>> it mounts and I can read it . I ran Drive Genius 2 on it but no cigar. The 
>> drive is only about 14 months old and only used for storage it has 10.5.8 on 
>> it.
>> 
>> 
>> John Carmonne
>> Yorba Linda USA
I removed the drive and put it in an external enclosure an connected it to my 
PM G% Dual 2.7 and it functioned properly except I can't verify S.M.A.R.T. 
because its IDE and the G5 is SATA. but i was able run Disk Utility and 
DiskWarrior and Maintenance on it and all other functions are working OK. 

I'm wondering If I may have a machine problem and not a failing HDD? Because 
when I put it back in the G4 MDD again I got the S.M.A.R.T warning. 

I recently swapped out the Dual 1. Gig processor with a Dual 1.25 and I wonder 
if that could cause this problem??

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive failing

[Mike Linnett]

I'd give data rescue ii a go on it, I think they have a free trial,  
and you'll need at least one drive with a fair bit of free space on it


On 21 Mar 2010, at 08:24, John Carmonne  wrote:


Hi All

I have a Seagate 500 Gig in a G4 MDD that just showed red and the  
S.M.A.R.T says it's failing and I can't get files off it. Anyone  
know a way to get the files off? I have 320 GIGs of movies on it.
it mounts and I can read it . I ran Drive Genius 2 on it but no  
cigar. The drive is only about 14 months old and only used for  
storage it has 10.5.8 on it.



John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Clark Martin]

On 2/21/10 3:48 PM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

On a side note, since 10.4 and 10.5 cost the same

used, what are the pro's and cons of each on my dual 1.25 MDD (1gb of
ram)? I read I may take a slight hit in performance, but is this all,
and haw big of one? Does 10.5 offer me anything useful 10.4 wouldn't
other than giving the computer a slightly longer usable life? Thanks
again everyone.


I'd go for 10.5.  I just put it on a Dual 1.25 GHz MDD and it purrs 
along nicely.  And yes, it should have a longer functional life.



--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Kasey Smith wrote:

> I've heard that the big thing in Leo is Spaces, and its something i wish 
> Tiger had.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Jake Zeppa wrote:
> 
>>   Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but no luck. I'm also getting a "Keys 
>> Out Of Order" warning now from Disk utility. I also gave the FSCK command 
>> trick a try, and ran it multiple times without luck. I have a feeling I'm 
>> left with one option, formatting, and installing a new OS. Diskwarrior at 
>> $100 seems a bit steep at the moment, and if I had to spend the money, I'd 
>> put it to OS 10.5. The good news is transferring data via TDM (over 
>> firewire) seems to work just fine (no errors so far).
>>   On a side note, since 10.4 and 10.5 cost the same used, what are the pro's 
>> and cons of each on my dual 1.25 MDD (1gb of ram)? I read I may take a 
>> slight hit in performance, but is this all, and haw big of one? Does 10.5 
>> offer me anything useful 10.4 wouldn't other than giving the computer a 
>> slightly longer usable life? Thanks again everyone.
>> 
>>   Jake
> 
 Spaces  on Leois real cool, and so is DVD player the way it displays chapters, 
so dual boot is an option for me.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

>   Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but no luck. I'm also getting a "Keys 
> Out Of Order" warning now from Disk utility. I also gave the FSCK command 
> trick a try, and ran it multiple times without luck. I have a feeling I'm 
> left with one option, formatting, and installing a new OS. Diskwarrior at 
> $100 seems a bit steep at the moment, and if I had to spend the money, I'd 
> put it to OS 10.5. The good news is transferring data via TDM (over firewire) 
> seems to work just fine (no errors so far).
>   On a side note, since 10.4 and 10.5 cost the same used, what are the pro's 
> and cons of each on my dual 1.25 MDD (1gb of ram)? I read I may take a slight 
> hit in performance, but is this all, and haw big of one? Does 10.5 offer me 
> anything useful 10.4 wouldn't other than giving the computer a slightly 
> longer usable life? Thanks again everyone.
> 
>   Jake
> 
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, John Carmonne  wrote:
> 
>> Try to fix the drive via TDM using Disk utility, it may
>> work you've nuttin to lose.
>> 
>> 
>> John Carmonne
>> Yorba Linda USA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are a member of
>> G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs
>> - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>> 
> 

Well if you ask me Tiger rules on PPC. I  can  boot my MDD 10.4.11,  10.5.8  
and  9.2.2. my goto daily system on this machine is Tiger. This is because some 
apps do not run on PPC 10.5.8  even though they run on Intel 10.5.8. Go figure.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Kasey Smith]

I've heard that the big thing in Leo is Spaces, and its something i  
wish Tiger had.


On Feb 21, 2010, at 4:48 PM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

   Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but no luck. I'm also  
getting a "Keys Out Of Order" warning now from Disk utility. I also  
gave the FSCK command trick a try, and ran it multiple times  
without luck. I have a feeling I'm left with one option,  
formatting, and installing a new OS. Diskwarrior at $100 seems a  
bit steep at the moment, and if I had to spend the money, I'd put  
it to OS 10.5. The good news is transferring data via TDM (over  
firewire) seems to work just fine (no errors so far).
   On a side note, since 10.4 and 10.5 cost the same used, what are  
the pro's and cons of each on my dual 1.25 MDD (1gb of ram)? I read  
I may take a slight hit in performance, but is this all, and haw  
big of one? Does 10.5 offer me anything useful 10.4 wouldn't other  
than giving the computer a slightly longer usable life? Thanks  
again everyone.


   Jake


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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Jake Zeppa]

   Thanks for the idea. I gave it a try but no luck. I'm also getting a "Keys 
Out Of Order" warning now from Disk utility. I also gave the FSCK command trick 
a try, and ran it multiple times without luck. I have a feeling I'm left with 
one option, formatting, and installing a new OS. Diskwarrior at $100 seems a 
bit steep at the moment, and if I had to spend the money, I'd put it to OS 
10.5. The good news is transferring data via TDM (over firewire) seems to work 
just fine (no errors so far).
   On a side note, since 10.4 and 10.5 cost the same used, what are the pro's 
and cons of each on my dual 1.25 MDD (1gb of ram)? I read I may take a slight 
hit in performance, but is this all, and haw big of one? Does 10.5 offer me 
anything useful 10.4 wouldn't other than giving the computer a slightly longer 
usable life? Thanks again everyone.

   Jake

--- On Sun, 2/21/10, John Carmonne  wrote:

> Try to fix the drive via TDM using Disk utility, it may
> work you've nuttin to lose.
> 
> 
> John Carmonne
> Yorba Linda USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are a member of
> G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs
> - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
> 


  

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

>   Thanks for the reply's everyone. I don't know if it matters, but the 
> Deskstar drive has 10.4 on it, where the drive with all my info is 10.2. I 
> don't own Diskwarrior, but I'm trying to search for a copy. I also 
> unfortunately don't own a 10.4 install disk (I got the drive with it already 
> installed), so saving the 10.4 drive is somewhat important (I only have 10.2 
> disks, which are now obsolete). I have looked at the cost to buy a used copy 
> of 10.4, but it's quite costly, and for the same cost, I could buy 10.5. I'd 
> really hate to fork over $100 for a new OS, so hopefully it won't come to 
> that.
>   None the less, I'm still open to ideas. I assume there's no way to fix this 
> drive without some software I don't own at the moment? Is there anything I 
> can do to salvage it, while keeping the data in tact? Things work fine, but 
> anything I transfer gets trashed. I'll attempt to transfer data through 
> Firewire, but I wonder what I can do if I wanted to run 2 drives at the same 
> time. Does anyone have an idea why this computer is doing this? Thanks again 
> everyone, I really appreciate the help.
> 
>   Jake
> 
> --- On Sun, 2/21/10, JOHN CARMONNE  wrote:
> 
>> From: JOHN CARMONNE 
>> Subject: Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25
>> To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:58 AM
>> 
>> On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Clark Martin wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace
>> my slow dual 450 giga. None the less, I've spent the last
>> few hours fighting a problem transferring data from my old
>> drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I
>> figured it would be best to ask the experts (you guys). The
>> drive that originally came with the computer (Seagate 80gb
>> ata/100) stopped working while transferring data (now it's
>> not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar has
>> corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the
>> ata/100 bus, both drives set to CS. The computer works
>> great, but somewhere between the two drives when
>> transferring data, everything gets messed up. The original
>> drives data seems fine, and it passes the utility tests, as
>> where the Deskstar now shows errors, and has files I
>> transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of them). Did I
>> screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm
>> open to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help.
>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I ran into something similar recently.  First
>> thing is you might try putting the "other" drive on the
>> third ATA bus.  Until I got the MDD I didn't know it
>> has 3 ATA busses.
>>> 
>>> The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I
>> think, an 80Gb Deskstar.  While it worked fine in the
>> MDD, it won't work in a Sawtooth (I had a 160 Gb HD from the
>> Sawtooth I use in the MDD now).  Of two Firewire drives
>> I've tested it in only one would see it properly.  I
>> haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter of the ATA
>> version.
>>> 
>>> I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the
>> 160 and copied everything back.  I had tried doing it
>> with the two drives on the same bus, that had problems
>> recognizing the drives.  I tried putting the 80Gb in a
>> FW enclosure and that didn't work.  About then I
>> noticed the 3rd bus, tried that and that worked just fine.
>>> 
>>> --Clark Martin
>>> Redwood City, CA, USA
>>> Macintosh / Internet Consulting
>>> 
>>> "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super
>> Highway"
>>> 
>>> 
>> The third Bus in the MDD is ata 33 for the optical drive I
>> think that  it's too slow for a HDD that's used for
>> anything other than storage.
>> 



Try to fix the drive via TDM using Disk utility, it may work you've nuttin to 
lose.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Jake Zeppa]

   Thanks for the reply's everyone. I don't know if it matters, but the 
Deskstar drive has 10.4 on it, where the drive with all my info is 10.2. I 
don't own Diskwarrior, but I'm trying to search for a copy. I also 
unfortunately don't own a 10.4 install disk (I got the drive with it already 
installed), so saving the 10.4 drive is somewhat important (I only have 10.2 
disks, which are now obsolete). I have looked at the cost to buy a used copy of 
10.4, but it's quite costly, and for the same cost, I could buy 10.5. I'd 
really hate to fork over $100 for a new OS, so hopefully it won't come to that.
   None the less, I'm still open to ideas. I assume there's no way to fix this 
drive without some software I don't own at the moment? Is there anything I can 
do to salvage it, while keeping the data in tact? Things work fine, but 
anything I transfer gets trashed. I'll attempt to transfer data through 
Firewire, but I wonder what I can do if I wanted to run 2 drives at the same 
time. Does anyone have an idea why this computer is doing this? Thanks again 
everyone, I really appreciate the help.

   Jake

--- On Sun, 2/21/10, JOHN CARMONNE  wrote:

> From: JOHN CARMONNE 
> Subject: Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25
> To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:58 AM
> 
> On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Clark Martin wrote:
> 
> > On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:
> > 
> > > > I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace
> my slow dual 450 giga. None the less, I've spent the last
> few hours fighting a problem transferring data from my old
> drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I
> figured it would be best to ask the experts (you guys). The
> drive that originally came with the computer (Seagate 80gb
> ata/100) stopped working while transferring data (now it's
> not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar has
> corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the
> ata/100 bus, both drives set to CS. The computer works
> great, but somewhere between the two drives when
> transferring data, everything gets messed up. The original
> drives data seems fine, and it passes the utility tests, as
> where the Deskstar now shows errors, and has files I
> transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of them). Did I
> screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm
> open to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help.
> Thanks
> > > >
> > 
> > I ran into something similar recently.  First
> thing is you might try putting the "other" drive on the
> third ATA bus.  Until I got the MDD I didn't know it
> has 3 ATA busses.
> > 
> > The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I
> think, an 80Gb Deskstar.  While it worked fine in the
> MDD, it won't work in a Sawtooth (I had a 160 Gb HD from the
> Sawtooth I use in the MDD now).  Of two Firewire drives
> I've tested it in only one would see it properly.  I
> haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter of the ATA
> version.
> > 
> > I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the
> 160 and copied everything back.  I had tried doing it
> with the two drives on the same bus, that had problems
> recognizing the drives.  I tried putting the 80Gb in a
> FW enclosure and that didn't work.  About then I
> noticed the 3rd bus, tried that and that worked just fine.
> > 
> > --Clark Martin
> > Redwood City, CA, USA
> > Macintosh / Internet Consulting
> > 
> > "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super
> Highway"
> > 
> > 
> The third Bus in the MDD is ata 33 for the optical drive I
> think that  it's too slow for a HDD that's used for
> anything other than storage.
> 
> JOHN CARMONNE
> Yorba Linda USA
> carmo...@aol,com
> 
> --You received this message because you are a member of
> G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs
> - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
> 


  

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 11:15 AM, Clark Martin wrote:

> On 2/21/10 10:58 AM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:
>> 
>> On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Clark Martin wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:
>>> 
> I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace my slow dual 450
> giga.
>>> None the less, I've spent the last few hours fighting a problem
>>> transferring data from my old drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a
>>> Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I figured it would be best to ask the
>>> experts (you guys). The drive that originally came with the
>>> computer (Seagate 80gb ata/100) stopped working while transferring
>>> data (now it's not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar
>>> has corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the ata/100
>>> bus, both drives set to CS. The computer works great, but somewhere
>>> between the two drives when transferring data, everything gets
>>> messed up. The original drives data seems fine, and it passes the
>>> utility tests, as where the Deskstar now shows errors, and has
>>> files I transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of them). Did I
>>> screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm open
>>> to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help. Thanks
> 
>>> 
>>> I ran into something similar recently. First thing is you might try
>>> putting the "other" drive on the third ATA bus. Until I got the
>>> MDD I didn't know it has 3 ATA busses.
>>> 
>>> The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I think, an
>>> 80Gb Deskstar. While it worked fine in the MDD, it won't work in a
>>> Sawtooth (I had a 160 Gb HD from the Sawtooth I use in the MDD
>>> now). Of two Firewire drives I've tested it in only one would see
>>> it properly. I haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter of
>>> the ATA version.
>>> 
>>> I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the 160 and copied
>>> everything back. I had tried doing it with the two drives on the
>>> same bus, that had problems recognizing the drives. I tried putting
>>> the 80Gb in a FW enclosure and that didn't work. About then I
>>> noticed the 3rd bus, tried that and that worked just fine.
> 
>> The third Bus in the MDD is ata 33 for the optical drive I think that
>> it's too slow for a HDD that's used for anything other than
>> storage.
> 
> The optical bus is ATA-3 but I'm not talking about that one.  The MDD
> also has "1 - Ultra ATA/66 (ATA-5), 1- ATA / 100 (ATA-6)" per MacTracker.  
> I'm talking about the ATA/66 bus.
> 
> In any event be it 33 or 66 it's still just fine for transferring the HD 
> especially if it avoids the problem the OP is having.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Clark Martin
> Redwood City, CA, USA
> Macintosh / Internet Consulting
> 
> "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"
> 
Sorry for that when you said third Bus I took it as the 33. I have put my Two 
118L Pioneers on the 66 so I can utilize full burn speeds, I have a 250 WD on 
the 33 for iTunes library.
But I had to mess with my MDD when I first got it to get the drives working 
properly, I did have to partition one to 180GB to allow OS9 to boot.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Clark Martin]

On 2/21/10 10:58 AM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:


On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Clark Martin wrote:


On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:


I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace my slow dual 450
giga.

None the less, I've spent the last few hours fighting a problem
transferring data from my old drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a
Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I figured it would be best to ask the
experts (you guys). The drive that originally came with the
computer (Seagate 80gb ata/100) stopped working while transferring
data (now it's not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar
has corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the ata/100
bus, both drives set to CS. The computer works great, but somewhere
between the two drives when transferring data, everything gets
messed up. The original drives data seems fine, and it passes the
utility tests, as where the Deskstar now shows errors, and has
files I transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of them). Did I
screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm open
to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help. Thanks




I ran into something similar recently. First thing is you might try
 putting the "other" drive on the third ATA bus. Until I got the
MDD I didn't know it has 3 ATA busses.

The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I think, an
80Gb Deskstar. While it worked fine in the MDD, it won't work in a
Sawtooth (I had a 160 Gb HD from the Sawtooth I use in the MDD
now). Of two Firewire drives I've tested it in only one would see
it properly. I haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter of
the ATA version.

I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the 160 and copied
 everything back. I had tried doing it with the two drives on the
same bus, that had problems recognizing the drives. I tried putting
the 80Gb in a FW enclosure and that didn't work. About then I
noticed the 3rd bus, tried that and that worked just fine.



The third Bus in the MDD is ata 33 for the optical drive I think that
 it's too slow for a HDD that's used for anything other than
storage.


 The optical bus is ATA-3 but I'm not talking about that one.  The MDD
also has "1 - Ultra ATA/66 (ATA-5), 1- ATA / 100 (ATA-6)" per 
MacTracker.  I'm talking about the ATA/66 bus.


In any event be it 33 or 66 it's still just fine for transferring the HD 
especially if it avoids the problem the OP is having.



--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 10:51 AM, Clark Martin wrote:


On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

> > I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace my slow dual 450  
giga. None the less, I've spent the last few hours fighting a  
problem transferring data from my old drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a  
Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I figured it would be best to ask the  
experts (you guys). The drive that originally came with the  
computer (Seagate 80gb ata/100) stopped working while transferring  
data (now it's not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar  
has corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the ata/100  
bus, both drives set to CS. The computer works great, but somewhere  
between the two drives when transferring data, everything gets  
messed up. The original drives data seems fine, and it passes the  
utility tests, as where the Deskstar now shows errors, and has  
files I transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of them). Did I  
screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm open  
to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help. Thanks

> >

I ran into something similar recently.  First thing is you might  
try putting the "other" drive on the third ATA bus.  Until I got  
the MDD I didn't know it has 3 ATA busses.


The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I think, an  
80Gb Deskstar.  While it worked fine in the MDD, it won't work in a  
Sawtooth (I had a 160 Gb HD from the Sawtooth I use in the MDD  
now).  Of two Firewire drives I've tested it in only one would see  
it properly.  I haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter  
of the ATA version.


I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the 160 and copied  
everything back.  I had tried doing it with the two drives on the  
same bus, that had problems recognizing the drives.  I tried  
putting the 80Gb in a FW enclosure and that didn't work.  About  
then I noticed the 3rd bus, tried that and that worked just fine.


--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"


The third Bus in the MDD is ata 33 for the optical drive I think  
that  it's too slow for a HDD that's used for anything other than  
storage.


JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda USA
carmo...@aol,com

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[Clark Martin]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

> > I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace my slow dual 450 giga. 
None the less, I've spent the last few hours fighting a problem 
transferring data from my old drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a Deskstar 
80gb ata/100, and I figured it would be best to ask the experts (you 
guys). The drive that originally came with the computer (Seagate 80gb 
ata/100) stopped working while transferring data (now it's not 
recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar has corruption issues now. 
The drives are set up using the ata/100 bus, both drives set to CS. The 
computer works great, but somewhere between the two drives when 
transferring data, everything gets messed up. The original drives data 
seems fine, and it passes the utility tests, as where the Deskstar now 
shows errors, and has files I transfered that can't be opened (and a lot 
of them). Did I screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? 
I'm open to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help. Thanks

> >

I ran into something similar recently.  First thing is you might try 
putting the "other" drive on the third ATA bus.  Until I got the MDD I 
didn't know it has 3 ATA busses.


The other thing is the drive that came with it was, I think, an 80Gb 
Deskstar.  While it worked fine in the MDD, it won't work in a Sawtooth 
(I had a 160 Gb HD from the Sawtooth I use in the MDD now).  Of two 
Firewire drives I've tested it in only one would see it properly.  I 
haven't yet investigated it, it might be a matter of the ATA version.


I CCC'd the 160 Gb over to the 80Gb, reformatted the 160 and copied 
everything back.  I had tried doing it with the two drives on the same 
bus, that had problems recognizing the drives.  I tried putting the 80Gb 
in a FW enclosure and that didn't work.  About then I noticed the 3rd 
bus, tried that and that worked just fine.


--
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Hard drive issues with a MDD 1.25

[John Carmonne]

On Feb 21, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jake Zeppa wrote:

> I just picked up a dual 1.25 MDD to replace my slow dual 450 giga. None the 
> less, I've spent the last few hours fighting a problem transferring data from 
> my old drive (80gb WD ata/100), to a Deskstar 80gb ata/100, and I figured it 
> would be best to ask the experts (you guys). The drive that originally came 
> with the computer (Seagate 80gb ata/100) stopped working while transferring 
> data (now it's not recognized by any computer), and the Deskstar has 
> corruption issues now. The drives are set up using the ata/100 bus, both 
> drives set to CS. The computer works great, but somewhere between the two 
> drives when transferring data, everything gets messed up. The original drives 
> data seems fine, and it passes the utility tests, as where the Deskstar now 
> shows errors, and has files I transfered that can't be opened (and a lot of 
> them). Did I screw up somewhere, or could this be a computer problem? I'm 
> open to all suggestions, and I really appreciate the help. Thanks
> 
>   Jake
> 
> 
Well I have the exact same machine. And when I got mine I had some issues 
similar to you. So to save a lot of time and hair pulling this is what I would 
do.
You said you have a WD 80 GB drive that you want to move data from to your 
Deskstar 80GB in the G4 MDD?
Initialize the Deskstar 80 GB via Firewire using your 450. If the Deskstar is a 
boot drive that you want to save then run Diskwarrior on it via TDM from your 
450.

Remove everything from your MDD all drives except optical. all ram, all cables, 
pram batt,
let it sit for a couple of cups. then hold down the CUDA switch for 30 seconds
Install the Deskstar drive in the "FRONT BAY" of the MDD, then install the ram 
and pram batt, mouse and keyboard. nothing else.
Close he machine and Carbon Copy Clone the WD 80GB to the Deskstar 80 GB in the 
MDD. via Firewire TDM
Then I would run DiskWarrior on the Deskstar before I boot it. After It's up  
ad the rest of the drives you want, up to 4 internally.
BTW DiskWarrior should fix the Seagate also.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda USA






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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[Clark Martin]

Ralph Green wrote:
> Howdy,
>   The higher RPM drives are definitely faster.  It does not always make
> sense to use them.  They have two negatives.  They usually draw more
> power. And, they are hotter.  The extra power is rarely a problem, but
> it does come up.  The heat is the real killer.  You should look up the
> specs on your old drive and compare them to the new faster drive.  If
> the bearings or motor efficiency have been improved, it could be that
> the new drive won't put out enough extra heat to be a problem.  And, you
> may be prepared to live with the drive dying sooner, in order to get the
> increased speed.  I am not saying to always go with the slower drive.  I
> just say consider the factors and make the decision that is best for
> you.

Power and heat go hand in hand.  All the power that goes into your drive 
turns into heat.  So if it draws more power it will generate more HEAT 
and that means it will get hotter.


-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[iJohn]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Ralph Green  wrote:
>  The higher RPM drives are definitely faster.  It does not always make
> sense to use them.

Another aspect of upgrading a hard drive that is usually overlooked is
the bit density of the platters. Roughly speaking the newest drives
with the highest densities will usually net you better performance
even at "only" 5400 RPM. The reason being that the drive platter
doesn't have to be moving as fast in order to read/write a large
quantity of data when the bit density of the platter is higher.

Within reason, I would always recommend going with the latest drive
technology with the highest platter bit density that you can get and
worry about 7200 vs 5400 as a lower priority. You'll get more
performance bang for the buck with a higher density platter. And if
you get a large drive that only uses a single platter it is also
likely to use less energy.

Just some thoughts for whatever their worth. I realize that since
you're (I assume) looking a for a PATA 2.5" drive your options are
more limited.

-irrational john

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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2009, at 2:14 PM, Ralph Green wrote:

> If
> the bearings or motor efficiency have been improved, it could be that
> the new drive won't put out enough extra heat to be a problem.


Which for drives older than a few years old than a new one is commonly  
the case.

So far (only a few hours of use) my new Hitachi 7200 RPM drive seems  
to run about as cool as my old 5400 RPM Samsung one...which is to say,  
pretty warm, actually :-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[Ralph Green]

Howdy,
  The higher RPM drives are definitely faster.  It does not always make
sense to use them.  They have two negatives.  They usually draw more
power. And, they are hotter.  The extra power is rarely a problem, but
it does come up.  The heat is the real killer.  You should look up the
specs on your old drive and compare them to the new faster drive.  If
the bearings or motor efficiency have been improved, it could be that
the new drive won't put out enough extra heat to be a problem.  And, you
may be prepared to live with the drive dying sooner, in order to get the
increased speed.  I am not saying to always go with the slower drive.  I
just say consider the factors and make the decision that is best for
you.
Good luck,
Ralph

On Fri, 2009-10-23 at 10:21 -0400, Tray Stephenson wrote:
> My question is  
> whether more RPMs makes a lot of difference in overall computer speed  
> (5400 RPM vs. 4200 RPM).  I would think that the 5400 RPM drive would  
> be faster, but don't really know.



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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[Bruce Johnson]

On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Tray Stephenson wrote:

>
> I plan to replace the 60 GB hard drive in my iBook G4 12" laptop with
> a larger one.  What I have in mind is a 250 GB drive.  My question is
> whether more RPMs makes a lot of difference in overall computer speed
> (5400 RPM vs. 4200 RPM).  I would think that the 5400 RPM drive would
> be faster, but don't really know.
> Thx. for any advice.

Going up in speed makes a useful difference. Going up to 5400 or 7200  
is definitely worth it.

I just replaced a dead 5400 rpm drive in my TiBook  with a new 7200  
rpm one and it's got 'teh snappy'...particularly noticeable when  
starting up or loading programs.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: hard drive speed in an iBook G4 12"

[Michael Koch]

I replace a 4200 RPM with a 7200 RPM in a 17" G4 Powerbook.
A world of difference like a whole new computer.
Did the same to a 15" MacbookPro with the same results.
On Oct 23, 2009, at 10:21, Tray Stephenson wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I plan to replace the 60 GB hard drive in my iBook G4 12" laptop with
> a larger one.  What I have in mind is a 250 GB drive.  My question is
> whether more RPMs makes a lot of difference in overall computer speed
> (5400 RPM vs. 4200 RPM).  I would think that the 5400 RPM drive would
> be faster, but don't really know.
> Thx. for any advice.
>
> Tray
>
> >
>

have a nice day
Michael Koch
mk...@ncwcom.com




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Re: [G3-5]Re: Hard Drive Limit

[MaGioZal]

On 7/6/09 6:08 PM, pdimage at  wrote:

>  Never tried OverDrive...


I tried to download OverDrive software recently, but the link on the site
was down...
 




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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[PeterH]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Michael Koch wrote:

> What is the "High Cap" LBA48 and how does it work.

The LBA48 properties is a set of commands which are added, as  
appropriate, to your Open Firmware NVRAM.

You will need to select the appropriate pair of LBA48 properties, one  
for the HD bus and one for the optical bus.

The one for the optical bus is certainly optional, but as I generally  
use the Zip position for initializing and cloning new drives, it may  
make some sense to do both.

For the Digital Audio and for the Quicksilver 2001 models, the  
correct properties are found in the enable-lba48-ata4 and the enable- 
lba48-ata3 files.

Earlier models may take other combinations, with the caveat that the  
HD bus is always the fastest and, consequently, it always has the  
higher ATA number.

The files are as follows:

enable-lba48-ata4 ...


#! /bin/bash -

if  kextstat -lb com.apple.driver.KeyLargoATA | grep -F -q KeyLargoATA &&
! ioreg -rStp IODeviceTree -n ata-4 -w0 | grep -F -q lba-48
thenread -rd $'\000' nvram nvramrc <<< "`nvram nvramrc 2>&-`"
if  sudo nvram 'use-nvramrc?=true'  \
nvramrc='dev mac-io/ata-4 0 0 " lba-48" property device-end'" $nvramrc"
then echo '48-bit LBA support will be enabled on the next reboot.'; fi
fi



enable-lba48-ata3 ...


#! /bin/bash -

if  kextstat -lb com.apple.driver.KeyLargoATA | grep -F -q KeyLargoATA &&
! ioreg -rStp IODeviceTree -n ata-3 -w0 | grep -F -q lba-48
thenread -rd $'\000' nvram nvramrc <<< "`nvram nvramrc 2>&-`"
if  sudo nvram 'use-nvramrc?=true'  \
nvramrc='dev mac-io/ata-3 0 0 " lba-48" property device-end'" $nvramrc"
then echo '48-bit LBA support will be enabled on the next reboot.'; fi
fi



enable-lba48-ata2 ...


#! /bin/bash -

if  kextstat -lb com.apple.driver.KeyLargoATA | grep -F -q KeyLargoATA &&
! ioreg -rStp IODeviceTree -n ata-2 -w0 | grep -F -q lba-48
thenread -rd $'\000' nvram nvramrc <<< "`nvram nvramrc 2>&-`"
if  sudo nvram 'use-nvramrc?=true'  \
nvramrc='dev mac-io/ata-2 0 0 " lba-48" property device-end'" $nvramrc"
then echo '48-bit LBA support will be enabled on the next reboot.'; fi
fi



These are "persistent" until you issue the "reset-nvram" O.F.  
command, which may be never.

In the case of the 4 and 3 properties, this makes your Digital Audio  
or Quicksilver almost exactly alike a Quicksilver 2002.

The END!



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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[Michael Koch]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 20:17, Bill Connelly wrote:

>
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Michael Koch wrote:
>
>>
>> Question to All
>> Has anyone gotten OverDrive to work; in overcoming the 128Gb limit ?
>> I installed it on the wife's G4 Dual 500 and it makes on difference.
>> When i go to find update, I get file not found.
>> Any advice
>
> OverDrive has a decent How To tutorial. I just re-read it and feel I
> could run it successfully if I need to. Since I'm using an ATA
> controller PCI card that overrides the limitation, I'm not inclined to
> experiment on my current setup in my DA Dual 533 under Leopard ...
> well not any more at present.
>
> AFAIK: You won't be able to search for any changes made by OverDrive
> using the Finder ... I believe the changes occur in NVRAM using Open
> Firmware at Startup. Something like that ...
>
> You would test to see if it worked by using Disk Utility and see how
> much of the >128GB drive is there ... hopefully all of it, after
> you've restarted your system, after running OverDrive.
>
> OverDrive allegedly will also help partition the new drive, so your
> first partition is a 128GB one ... in case you lose the LBA48
> property, and need to run OverDrive again ... avoiding writing
> anything past that 128GB limit ... that would most likely mess the
> partition up, or corrupt a file (my experience).
>
> Reread use of s Single Drive versus using 2 ... it recommends using
> overdrive for a second HD, since you have to be booted into the first
> one to run it. I'm thinking I'd clone my current OS X onto a spare
> 80GB, and use  that as my OS X drive (never having to worry about the
> LBA48 limitation). Then I would run OverDrive and install my 500GB
> drive as a second HD ... partition it with 128GB as a first partition,
> and then the rest as I needed.
>
> I think that's how it might work best.
>
> My thoughts anyway.
>
> >
>
I did all that ; set Overdrive on second HD;  started on first drive:
I have not bin able to get it to work only see 138 Gb out of 250 Gb.
What is the "High Cap" LBA48 and how does it work.
I do not want to install a controller card or buy speed tools ; rather  
spend the cash
on a different computer for the wife ( she who must be obeyed )
thinking of a G4 or G5; she does not us it except for e-mail and such.

thank you for the help


have a nice day
Michael Koch
mk...@ncwcom.com




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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[PeterH]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Bill Connelly wrote:

> Reread use of s Single Drive versus using 2 ... it recommends using
> overdrive for a second HD, since you have to be booted into the first
> one to run it. I'm thinking I'd clone my current OS X onto a spare
> 80GB, and use  that as my OS X drive (never having to worry about the
> LBA48 limitation). Then I would run OverDrive and install my 500GB
> drive as a second HD ... partition it with 128GB as a first partition,
> and then the rest as I needed.

Whether "High Cap", LBA48 Property or "OverDrive", the most  
restrictive application is:

1) first partition is precisely 131,072 MB, and

2) remaining partitions are anything you want.

With (1) and (2) applied religiously, whether you use "High Cap",  
LBA48 Property or "OverDrive" really doesn't matter, the result is  
the same: if the kext or property is lost, you will still see the  
first 131,072 MB, which is were your primary OSes should be located  
(I partition my first 131,072 MB into four equal sized partitions as  
I support 10.4.11, 10.3.9, 10.3.9 Server and 10.5.7, roughly in that  
order of precedence).

Now, if you properly use the LBA48 property, you will have the  
equivalent of a Quicksilver 2002, and you can have all your disks as  
single partitions.

There are lots of choices, and one completely "fail safe"  
implementation, and one "maximum utilization" implementation.

The choice is yours!

Because of a farkle-up by Intech (failing to provide me with an e- 
mail receipt and a valid customer code for my "retail" purchase from  
them of "High Cap", I have elected to go with the LBA48 property on  
my DAs, but not on my QSes (which are 2002s, so these don't need any  
help, anyway).

The way I have partitioned all my drives is compatible with any of  
the above-mentioned method, and I can freely move my boot-drive/data- 
drive two-high carrier amongst any of my machines.

Fortunately, I have not had to: my lone remaining DA is still on its  
initial installation of the LBA48 property, after I first discovered  
that the version of "High Cap" which I had would not support Leopard  
(no help, nor information from Intech, on that score, for several  
months).

My sole remaining DA has never had a "reset-nvram" done to it since  
first installing the LBA48 properties (one on the HD bus, the other  
on the optical bus), and I have been perfectly happy with that  
solution for literally years.



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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[Bill Connelly]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Michael Koch wrote:

>
> Question to All
> Has anyone gotten OverDrive to work; in overcoming the 128Gb limit ?
> I installed it on the wife's G4 Dual 500 and it makes on difference.
> When i go to find update, I get file not found.
> Any advice

OverDrive has a decent How To tutorial. I just re-read it and feel I  
could run it successfully if I need to. Since I'm using an ATA  
controller PCI card that overrides the limitation, I'm not inclined to  
experiment on my current setup in my DA Dual 533 under Leopard ...  
well not any more at present.

AFAIK: You won't be able to search for any changes made by OverDrive  
using the Finder ... I believe the changes occur in NVRAM using Open  
Firmware at Startup. Something like that ...

You would test to see if it worked by using Disk Utility and see how  
much of the >128GB drive is there ... hopefully all of it, after  
you've restarted your system, after running OverDrive.

OverDrive allegedly will also help partition the new drive, so your  
first partition is a 128GB one ... in case you lose the LBA48  
property, and need to run OverDrive again ... avoiding writing  
anything past that 128GB limit ... that would most likely mess the  
partition up, or corrupt a file (my experience).

Reread use of s Single Drive versus using 2 ... it recommends using  
overdrive for a second HD, since you have to be booted into the first  
one to run it. I'm thinking I'd clone my current OS X onto a spare  
80GB, and use  that as my OS X drive (never having to worry about the  
LBA48 limitation). Then I would run OverDrive and install my 500GB  
drive as a second HD ... partition it with 128GB as a first partition,  
and then the rest as I needed.

I think that's how it might work best.

My thoughts anyway.

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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[PeterH]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:08 PM, pdimage wrote:

> I used to use the Intech ATA Hi-Cap support driver for larger drives
> (than 128GB) on a Sawtooth - always worked well.

I used the version of High Cap which I purchased from Intech on  
Panther and Tiger.

Mine does not support Leopard, although the present version does.

I converted to LBA48 properties method as I wasn't going to pay  
Intech twice for the same product (their Bozo sales agents failed to  
e-mail me the required information for a free update).



> Never tried OverDrive...

No need to use that as the LBA48 properties method is nearly the same  
as having a Qucksilver 2002.



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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[pdimage]

On 6/7/09 21:37, "Michael Koch"  wrote:

> Question to All
> Has anyone gotten OverDrive to work; in overcoming the 128Gb limit ?
> I installed it on the wife's G4 Dual 500 and it makes on difference.
> When i go to find update, I get file not found.
> Any advice
> 
> Thank You

I used to use the Intech ATA Hi-Cap support driver for larger drives
(than 128GB) on a Sawtooth - always worked well. Never tried OverDrive...

Pete



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Re: Hard Drive Limit

[Bill Connelly]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 4:37 PM, Michael Koch wrote:

>
> Question to All
> Has anyone gotten OverDrive to work; in overcoming the 128Gb limit ?
> I installed it on the wife's G4 Dual 500 and it makes on difference.
> When i go to find update, I get file not found.
> Any advice
>
> Thank You
>
>

I tried once or twice, on my Digital Audio G4 Dual 500 ... but didn't  
reap any benefits.

Was also afraid booting into my already formatted 500GB drive might  
mess up one of the partitions.

Let me know if you get it to working, and how ...

I believe if you do a cmd-opt-P-R, any changes will disappear due to  
the OverDrive modified PRAM being Reset.

I'm currently using a Sonnet Trio to bypass the limitation, and have a  
Firmtek SATA controller and 1TB Seagate en route to upgrade my DA, and  
bypass the limitation.


Good Luck.

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Re: Hard drive plate and screw

[glen]

- Original Message 
> From: ron 
> To: G3-5 List 
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:02:42 AM
> Subject: Re: Hard drive plate and screw
> 
> 
> On May 30, 7:54 pm, Arnel Tuazon wrote:
> 
> > Anyone know how to get the screws out?  As of now only the center hard drive
> > plate can be removed the others are stuck with the damaged screw heads.
> 
> Use a sharp edged tool like a small chisel to score a nock from the
> screwdriver slot to the edge of the screw head. Then, use a small
> hammer and the edge of a flat blade screwdriver to drive the damaged
> screw around and around until it comes loose. Be careful placing the
> edge of the screwdriver blade in the nock that you created so that it
> will push against the nock instead of slipping out.
> 
> You might want to use the chisel instead of a flat blade screwdriver
> since it already fits the nock you made.
> 
>

Just a variation on what ron said:

I used a hacksaw blade (w/out the saw) to carefully saw or file a groove in the 
offending screw that fastens the drive carrier to the floor of chassis. Be sure 
to use a damp paper towel or vacuum to remove any metal fillings.

This was on a B&W but the same would apply to a G4. Then I used a flat blade 
screw driver to loosen the screw. In this case was I was able to reuse the 
screw as long as I did not over torque it.

I'm assuming you are referring to the screw that attaches the the drive carrier 
to the floor of the G4.

If you can't  save the bunged screw you may be able to get away with some other 
screw with the appropriate diameter and  pitch without the "special thin head" 
design as Peter so precisely described. I seem to recall replacing such screw 
with a flat head or maybe a round head screw and to my surprise it allowed 
enough space to mount the drive with little or no problems. I could be wrong 
about this but it may be worth a try.

Or, if you are not moving the G4 around a lot just a piece of duck tape may be 
enough in lieu of the screw. Be sure to use the super stick variety (locally 
know as "EB Green") but available internationally under many other names. --glen


  

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Re: Hard drive plate and screw

[Arnel Tuazon]

On 31/05/09 5:02 AM, "ron"  wrote:

> 
> On May 30, 7:54 pm, Arnel Tuazon  wrote:
> 
>> Anyone know how to get the screws out?  As of now only the center hard drive
>> plate can be removed the others are stuck with the damaged screw heads.
> 
> Use a sharp edged tool like a small chisel to score a nock from the
> screwdriver slot to the edge of the screw head. Then, use a small
> hammer and the edge of a flat blade screwdriver to drive the damaged
> screw around and around until it comes loose. Be careful placing the
> edge of the screwdriver blade in the nock that you created so that it
> will push against the nock instead of slipping out.
> 
> You might want to use the chisel instead of a flat blade screwdriver
> since it already fits the nock you made.
> 
> Be sure that any screw that you use as a replacement has fine threads
> instead of coarse threads.

Thanks!  I'll try it today.



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Re: Hard drive plate and screw (and more screws)

[PeterH]

On May 30, 2009, at 7:54 PM, Arnel Tuazon wrote:

> I just noticed that the G4 Gig-e Mac I have has a problem with 2 of  
> the hard
> drive plates.  You know the metal plates that you attach the hard  
> drives to
> and then in turn attach these plates inside the bottom of the G4  
> case.  Each
> plate has one screw that keeps it in place inside the case.  I  
> noticed that
> the screw for 2 of the plates has been damaged.  The head of each  
> screw has
> been damaged to the point where no screw driver bit could ever  
> snugly fit
> into it to allow you to unscrew the plate.
>
> Anyone know how to get the screws out?  As of now only the center  
> hard drive
> plate can be removed the others are stuck with the damaged screw  
> heads.

The rear-most drive mount, the one which accepts two drives in a  
stacked configuration, requires special thin head screws.

The screws themselves have a #6-UNC thread, which is a coarse thread  
(UNC means "Unified National Coarse"; there are indeed UNF threads,  
"Unified National Fine").

The threads are NOT fine, which on a Mac generally means M3-0.5,  
metric, 3.00mm dia., 0.50mm thread pitch.

Optical and Zip drives are the only drives within the desktop and  
mini-tower series of 60x, G3 and G4 Macs which are mounted using  
metric fasteners. The hard drives are always mounted using #6-32 UNC  
("Imperial") fasteners.

These thin head fasteners are quite special, and were made for Apple  
to its specifications.

The single-high drive carrier can use conventional head #6-32 UNC  
screws; it is only the two-high drive carrier which requires the  
special thin head screws, and even then, these special screws are  
necessary only when mounting the drive from below.

If mounting the drive from the sides, then conventional #6-32 UNC  
screws may be used.

Now, the drive carrier itself is mounted to the base of the mini- 
tower by screws which _appear_ to be the same as the drive mounting  
screws, but _these are not the same_; these are M3.5-0.6, metric,  
3.50mm dia., 0.60mm thread pitch.

M3.5-0.6 fasteners were adopted by Apple in 1984, with the  
introduction of the very first Mac, the 128K.

However, in the very same year, 1984, the M3.5-0.6 fastener size was  
abandoned as a standard by those countries which endorsed, or  
mandated metric standards.

Consequently, most M3.5-0.6 fasteners are custom made for Apple. No  
one else that I am aware of uses M3.5-0.6 fasteners in their products.

Historically, M3.5 is just about the same diameter as #6, so an M3.5  
fastener has just about the same shear strength as a #6 fastener.

However, in the post-1984 metric standards, there is no standard  
fastener size between M3 and M4, and M3 has too low a shear strength,  
while M4 has too great a shear strength, for many mounting applications.

Hence, although it may be "archaic", from a metric perspective, to  
use #6 fasteners for hard drives, this size is still the standard,  
world-wide.

Now, as to the PCI/AGP/PCI-E card mounting screws ...

The world-wide standard is also #6-32 UNC.

However, in order to keep its products as "all-metric" as was  
possible, Apple deviated from the card mounting standard and used  
M3.5-0.6 fasteners there, too.


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Re: Hard drive plate and screw

[ron]

On May 30, 7:54 pm, Arnel Tuazon  wrote:

> Anyone know how to get the screws out?  As of now only the center hard drive
> plate can be removed the others are stuck with the damaged screw heads.

Use a sharp edged tool like a small chisel to score a nock from the
screwdriver slot to the edge of the screw head. Then, use a small
hammer and the edge of a flat blade screwdriver to drive the damaged
screw around and around until it comes loose. Be careful placing the
edge of the screwdriver blade in the nock that you created so that it
will push against the nock instead of slipping out.

You might want to use the chisel instead of a flat blade screwdriver
since it already fits the nock you made.

Be sure that any screw that you use as a replacement has fine threads
instead of coarse threads.
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Re: Hard drive removed? NO way!

[Dan]

At 8:45 AM -0800 12/21/2008, Jeffrey Engle wrote:
>On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>  > On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:23 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:
>  >> Here's the deal
>>>
>>>  I have a 160gb hard drive external that I needed to partition then do
>>>  a secure erase not even 15 minutes into the erase, the warning
>>>  window comes up saying that I disconnected the drive! aAAAH! I
>  >
>>  Something caused the drive to drop off the bus. Flaky USB interface in
>  > the drive?
>
>Just curious, the drive enclosure has a Y-usb cable for power from the 
>usb ports on the macbook, if the "power side" was not plugged in,
>would that have anything to do with it?

One of the ways companies make their laptops have better battery life 
is by providing less power over the USB and Firewire type interfaces. 
heh. Apple is notorious for this.  If the drive has such an adapter, 
that's a clue -- the drive probably requires 90% or more of the 
"standard" power off that bus, and if your laptop isn't even 
providing that "standard"...  Running it without that being plugged 
in is just asking for trouble, IMO.

BTW, what's the point of partitioning the drive BEFORE doing the 
secure erase?  You want to make sure some part of the drive retains 
its old data, or is not exercised (depending on your purpose for said 
erase).

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Hard drive removed? NO way!

[Bruce Johnson]

On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:

>>
>> Something caused the drive to drop off the bus. Flaky USB interface  
>> in
>> the drive?
>>
>>
>
> Just curious, the drive enclosure has a Y-usb cable for power from the
> usb ports on the macbook, if the "power side" was not plugged in,
> would that have anything to do with it? I've never had to use the
> "power side" yet? hmm... Jeff

Could well be.

--
Bruce Johnson
U of Az  College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Hard drive removed? NO way!

[Jeffrey Engle]

On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>
> On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:23 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's the deal
>>
>> I have a 160gb hard drive external that I needed to partition then do
>> a secure erase not even 15 minutes into the erase, the warning
>> window comes up saying that I disconnected the drive! aAAAH! I
>
>
> Something caused the drive to drop off the bus. Flaky USB interface in
> the drive?
>
>

Also, I've had this happen before on high quality drive enclosures  
hooked to my, then, powermac G5 2.0ghz J.

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Re: Hard drive removed? NO way!

[Jeffrey Engle]

On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>
> On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:23 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's the deal
>>
>> I have a 160gb hard drive external that I needed to partition then do
>> a secure erase not even 15 minutes into the erase, the warning
>> window comes up saying that I disconnected the drive! aAAAH! I
>
>
> Something caused the drive to drop off the bus. Flaky USB interface in
> the drive?
>
>

Just curious, the drive enclosure has a Y-usb cable for power from the  
usb ports on the macbook, if the "power side" was not plugged in,  
would that have anything to do with it? I've never had to use the  
"power side" yet? hmm... Jeff

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Re: Hard drive removed? NO way!

[Bruce Johnson]

On Dec 21, 2008, at 9:23 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:

>
> Here's the deal
>
> I have a 160gb hard drive external that I needed to partition then do
> a secure erase not even 15 minutes into the erase, the warning
> window comes up saying that I disconnected the drive! aAAAH! I


Something caused the drive to drop off the bus. Flaky USB interface in  
the drive?

--
Bruce Johnson
U of Az  College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group
Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[jonas ulrich]

I have a gigabyte ethernet model with a 250GB hard drive. I had to use the
Speed Tools ATA High-Cap Driver. Works great!

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Dennis Myhand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> dc wrote:
> > One other option is a SCSI controller card with a fast drive. I have
> > an ATTO card driving a 15,000 rpm SCSI hard drive with a 16 MB cache
> > on one of my Sawtooths.
> >
>
> M...SCSI!
>
>
> >
>

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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[Dennis Myhand]

dc wrote:
> One other option is a SCSI controller card with a fast drive. I have
> an ATTO card driving a 15,000 rpm SCSI hard drive with a 16 MB cache
> on one of my Sawtooths.
> 

M...SCSI!


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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[dc]

On Dec 1, 7:11 pm, Bruce Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 5:02 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote:

> Native on the built-in ATA bus is 128 gb, but there is a high-capacity  
> driver available that will get around this. If you stick in an ATA or  
> SATA controller card there's no limit.

One other option is a SCSI controller card with a fast drive. I have
an ATTO card driving a 15,000 rpm SCSI hard drive with a 16 MB cache
on one of my Sawtooths. The largest drives like this are 146 GB (mine
is only 73 GB) so they don't give much more capacity than the ATA bus
but the performance is awesome and they are far less expensive than
Raptors.
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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[Clark Martin]

PeterH wrote:
> 
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
>>> What is the limit on hard drive size for a PPC Mac.  I have a  
>>> Sawtooth
>>> running 10.4.11.  Thanks, Dennis in Victoria
>> Native on the built-in ATA bus is 128 gb, but there is a high-capacity
>> driver available that will get around this. If you stick in an ATA or
>> SATA controller card there's no limit.
> 
> Native up to and including QS 2001 is 131,072 MB.
> 
> Native for QS2002 and later is unlimited.

It's not unlimited, it's 144 petabytes (144,000,000 Gb).  And before 
someone says it might as well be unlimited, that's almost certainly what 
  someone said about the 128 Gb limit... surprise, it's not.  True, it's 
unlikely to be an issue, by the time someone is building drives that big 
   most people won't know what PATA IDE is.

> 
> With the High-Cap kext, this can be extended to unlimited for most  
> early G4 models and late G3 models (known not to work with 10.5.x).
> 
> With the LBA48 property work-around, this can be extended to  
> unlimited for most early G4 models (works perfectly on my DA, and  
> probably works perfectly on all AGP G4s).


I would say it's very large,  but it's definitely not UNLIMITED.



Just remember those other "UNLIMITED" values.

RAM
64Kb RAM
640Kb
1Mb
16Mb
4Gb

HD
32Mb
4Gb
128Gb
200Tb

Network speeds we'll never need to exceed.
10MBps
100MBPs
1000MBPs





-- 
Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA
Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[PeterH]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>> What is the limit on hard drive size for a PPC Mac.  I have a  
>> Sawtooth
>> running 10.4.11.  Thanks, Dennis in Victoria
>
> Native on the built-in ATA bus is 128 gb, but there is a high-capacity
> driver available that will get around this. If you stick in an ATA or
> SATA controller card there's no limit.

Native up to and including QS 2001 is 131,072 MB.

Native for QS2002 and later is unlimited.

With the High-Cap kext, this can be extended to unlimited for most  
early G4 models and late G3 models (known not to work with 10.5.x).

With the LBA48 property work-around, this can be extended to  
unlimited for most early G4 models (works perfectly on my DA, and  
probably works perfectly on all AGP G4s).

Native for ATA to 100 is also 131,072, but there are no workarounds.

Native for all ATA/133 and the few ATA/100 cards for which there is a  
released update is unlimited.

Native for SATA is unlimited.

Native for early 1394 cases (with or without USB 2.0) is 131,072 MB.

Native for later 1394 cases (with or without USB 2.0) is unlimited.


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Re: Hard Drive Size question

[Bruce Johnson]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 5:02 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote:

>
> What is the limit on hard drive size for a PPC Mac.  I have a Sawtooth
> running 10.4.11.  Thanks, Dennis in Victoria

Native on the built-in ATA bus is 128 gb, but there is a high-capacity  
driver available that will get around this. If you stick in an ATA or  
SATA controller card there's no limit.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: hard drive orientation (horizontal v. vertical)

[dorayme]

On Oct 24, 7:56 am, Al Poulin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2008, at 3:47 PM, g3-5-list group wrote:
...
> And then there is another angle.  An old tale (perhaps mythic?) was  
> that once a hard drive has "worn in" in either the horizontal or  
> vertical orientation, one should not change its original orientation  
> to the other. What's up with that?
>
There is an ex Cambridge scientist who believed that things happen
because they have happened before, that even inanimate things live in
a sort of memory bubble. Morphic Resonance:


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Re: hard drive orientation (horizontal v. vertical)

[Steve R]

At 9:23 PM -0400 10/23/08, Al Poulin posted:

>
>  So, it seems safe for Steve, the original poster, to move his external
>  drive from horizontal to vertical, right?

That's how I'm interpreting the thread. I'll let you know if the data 
falls off the platter onto the floor ;-)

Thanks
Steve R
-- 
Reopen NAFTA. Reclaim our sovereignty.
   

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