Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
I bought my mac mini a few months before snow leopard came out, so we actually got a 20 dollar price break. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Travis Siegel Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:59 PM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Actually, the upgrade fee from leopard to snowleopard was 29 bucks. And, it still is. :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
ok this is the link to the latest version I have however my database is rather out of date. no idea why the link for 1.5 is not working though. At 08:34 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
You didn't send the link did you... -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 18 July 2010 09:40 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods ok this is the link to the latest version I have however my database is rather out of date. no idea why the link for 1.5 is not working though. At 08:34 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
aah no I didn't its for 1.4 its old. At 08:56 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: You didn't send the link did you... -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 18 July 2010 09:40 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods ok this is the link to the latest version I have however my database is rather out of date. no idea why the link for 1.5 is not working though. At 08:34 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Maybe he forgot. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Ben gamehead...@aol.co.uk To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods You didn't send the link did you... -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 18 July 2010 09:40 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods ok this is the link to the latest version I have however my database is rather out of date. no idea why the link for 1.5 is not working though. At 08:34 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi, If you still have your email you got from Che when you registered the game, the link it gives may work. I say may because Che recently moved the entire blind adrenaline site to a new server, and most of the railRacer functionality, E.G. money and track records, as well as the user tracks page, isn't currently there. I'm not sure if the full download for RailRacer 1.53 is there either, but good luck. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 3:40 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods ok this is the link to the latest version I have however my database is rather out of date. no idea why the link for 1.5 is not working though. At 08:34 p.m. 18/07/2010, you wrote: Well I can't get railracer at all the full version isn't there anymore! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: 20 June 2010 07:29 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Actually, the upgrade fee from leopard to snowleopard was 29 bucks. And, it still is. :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
thats true my aunt has a deadlock on her house door, and they still bashed in a window. my grandpa had 2 locks on his house and a screen and they broke in. We have had standard locks on our house and on ocation by mistake have left either the front door unlocked or one of the other doors at the back open or unlocked. though this was just forgetfullness no one stole anything so I guess they don't look for houses with small locks. At 04:31 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: I can relate to what Thomas Ward wrote concerning registration methods in his white paper. My Dad used to say that we should always lock the door when we leave the house. He would not buy big heavy locks, chain locks, or other such devices to keep burglars out. He said, If you make it really difficult for someone to get in, you've just told them that there is something really valuable inside. Now, they're going to be more determined to get it from you, and they will get it. So, not only have you lost the battle, but you've also lost the war. You spend the money to keep them out, and they'll certainly get in. - Original Message - From: jenni...@4dewitt.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods my brother will be there on Monday June 21, 2010 we will talk later I'm at work Take care Jenn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dark d...@xgam.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:30:12 To: Gamers Discussion listgamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. At 05:50 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: That's probably why a lot of people are switching over to Mac, and not merely because you don't need to pay for a separate screen reader with Mac computers anymore. I'd get one myself but for a lack of funds. Of course even if I do I'll probably always have a Mac and a Windows machine around so I have both for when I need them. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
That just proves that no matter what you do, people will try to break into your house or, in this case, your software. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:28 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods thats true my aunt has a deadlock on her house door, and they still bashed in a window. my grandpa had 2 locks on his house and a screen and they broke in. We have had standard locks on our house and on ocation by mistake have left either the front door unlocked or one of the other doors at the back open or unlocked. though this was just forgetfullness no one stole anything so I guess they don't look for houses with small locks. At 04:31 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: I can relate to what Thomas Ward wrote concerning registration methods in his white paper. My Dad used to say that we should always lock the door when we leave the house. He would not buy big heavy locks, chain locks, or other such devices to keep burglars out. He said, If you make it really difficult for someone to get in, you've just told them that there is something really valuable inside. Now, they're going to be more determined to get it from you, and they will get it. So, not only have you lost the battle, but you've also lost the war. You spend the money to keep them out, and they'll certainly get in. - Original Message - From: jenni...@4dewitt.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods my brother will be there on Monday June 21, 2010 we will talk later I'm at work Take care Jenn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dark d...@xgam.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:30:12 To: Gamers Discussion listgamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Bryan, Yes, in deed. In fact, that is one reason I largely use Linux these days for most things. For one thing not only is it free to use you don't have to worry about hardware based licenses for commercial software. For the most part all you need to do is install the base operating system, install any additional software packages, and you are set. No need to enter several product licenses one after another. However, because Linux does have its limits I generally keep at least one Windows system around just to play games, to program, etc but it is sure nice not having to put up with hardware based licenses with Linux based software. All of the commercial Linux software I own generally requires a standard license key, and that's it. Like with the Cepstral TTS voices you run the swift licensing tool tell it what voice to licence, enter the product key, and your done. It works on every computer i have so I don't have to worry about all the third-party voices I purchased being tied to any particular computer. Most commercial software for Linux is generally like that. No hardware based licensing that I've ever seen. On 6/20/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: That's probably why a lot of people are switching over to Mac, and not merely because you don't need to pay for a separate screen reader with Mac computers anymore. I'd get one myself but for a lack of funds. Of course even if I do I'll probably always have a Mac and a Windows machine around so I have both for when I need them. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Shaun, Ummm...What OS is $30 for a full OS upgrade? I certainly haven't seen any that low. Windows is at least $99 for an upgrade, and around $199 for a full retail version. Mac OS is something like $120 for a full retail version. Linux is, of course, free to download. On 6/20/10, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Thomas, That's a good point when it comes to registration systems. There's really no point with going with anyone more exasperating? Then a name based system. The only time I can see that as a good move is if you actually found a mostly crack proof version, similar to Jason's system for Entombed. (though, correct me) Best Reagrds, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:35 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Shaun, Ummm...What OS is $30 for a full OS upgrade? I certainly haven't seen any that low. Windows is at least $99 for an upgrade, and around $199 for a full retail version. Mac OS is something like $120 for a full retail version. Linux is, of course, free to download. On 6/20/10, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Shaun, Yes, Che's system works, but I've found cracks for that one. Even that one, Iddon't know of any systems that you probably can't find cracks for. Best Regards, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:29 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
It's mostly crack proof so long as someone unscrupulous who did purchase the game legitimately gives their registration info and whatnot to someone else. There are people who would happily do that I'm sure. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Thomas, That's a good point when it comes to registration systems. There's really no point with going with anyone more exasperating? Then a name based system. The only time I can see that as a good move is if you actually found a mostly crack proof version, similar to Jason's system for Entombed. (though, correct me) Best Reagrds, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:35 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Shaun, Ummm...What OS is $30 for a full OS upgrade? I certainly haven't seen any that low. Windows is at least $99 for an upgrade, and around $199 for a full retail version. Mac OS is something like $120 for a full retail version. Linux is, of course, free to download. On 6/20/10, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Hayden, Nothing is mostly crack proof. That's the entire point of my white paper. Some developers believe that coming up with more and more restrictive licensing systems is the way to crack down on software piracy, but it is a battle they will lose. If someone wants to pirate it bad enough they will. That's a fact of life that every developer needs to accept on some level. I'm not saying that we should make it easy for pirates to pirate the software, but we also need to take in account our honest paying customers too. Usually these restrictive licenses harm the honest paying customer more than the pirates themselves. Pirates have work arounds for restrictive licenses where your honest paying customer does not. They have to suffer the results of a hardware based license key system which is something of a punishment for paying for the software rather than a reward. One common mistake we often make is we look to this or that security system and say this is mostly crack proof. For example, a few months back, before I converted to C++, I was looking at purchasing a very well known licensing API for my Genesis Engine. However, rather than accepting all the good reviews I decided to look for some negative reviews, and if there were any well known security issues. Turns out there were some extremely negative reviews, and well known technical and security issues involved with that API. When I asked the company about it the denied it outright. I had expected them to say that those problems had been addressed, fixed, whatever but they denied they ever existed. Given what I had read somebody was lying, and I wasn't willing to take the companies word on the matter given the cost I was going to have to fork over to buy their API. Of course, it is always possible the negative reviews I had read were false, but there is likely some truth to the number of reviews says don't buy software x because of reason x. On 6/20/10, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Thomas, That's a good point when it comes to registration systems. There's really no point with going with anyone more exasperating? Then a name based system. The only time I can see that as a good move is if you actually found a mostly crack proof version, similar to Jason's system for Entombed. (though, correct me) Best Reagrds, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Hayden, Yes, exactly. The security system Rail Racer uses is well known for a number of technical and security problems. I don't know if they all apply to the specific version Rail Racer uses, but I've heard from other profetional .Net developers to stay clear of it because it is bad news, and, yes, there are cracks for it. So once again nothing is full proof. On 6/20/10, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Shaun, Yes, Che's system works, but I've found cracks for that one. Even that one, Iddon't know of any systems that you probably can't find cracks for. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
hmmm I got it off a cast in bct, about the mac, must have been a special deal or something. At 11:34 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Ummm...What OS is $30 for a full OS upgrade? I certainly haven't seen any that low. Windows is at least $99 for an upgrade, and around $199 for a full retail version. Mac OS is something like $120 for a full retail version. Linux is, of course, free to download. On 6/20/10, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
well in my opinion che's reg system has not a nicely designed interface. I think the one gma uses is good for the customer if any. even after a reformat the ids stay the same. Its quite simple to. I think part of the trouble is when you base the codes off the windows ids. when the system is reformatted, the windows ids change and your codes are then useless. Taking a snapshot of the hardware is a bit more secure since unless something changes like the bios, or the hard drive you should be ok. saying that if you upgraded the bios that would change though how often will a standard user do that? it gets a bit more complex if you are a hardware tester or beta tester of many things or require a regular change of hardware for testing or whatever. At 02:35 a.m. 21/06/2010, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Yes, Che's system works, but I've found cracks for that one. Even that one, Iddon't know of any systems that you probably can't find cracks for. Best Regards, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:29 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Shaun, Sorry, I can't agree with GMA's system. I do not like hardware systems like that, although it's not too bad if David's upgrading to a purely hardware based system. Best Regards, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:26 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well in my opinion che's reg system has not a nicely designed interface. I think the one gma uses is good for the customer if any. even after a reformat the ids stay the same. Its quite simple to. I think part of the trouble is when you base the codes off the windows ids. when the system is reformatted, the windows ids change and your codes are then useless. Taking a snapshot of the hardware is a bit more secure since unless something changes like the bios, or the hard drive you should be ok. saying that if you upgraded the bios that would change though how often will a standard user do that? it gets a bit more complex if you are a hardware tester or beta tester of many things or require a regular change of hardware for testing or whatever. At 02:35 a.m. 21/06/2010, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Yes, Che's system works, but I've found cracks for that one. Even that one, Iddon't know of any systems that you probably can't find cracks for. Best Regards, Hayden Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 1:29 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods well the hardwre lock is what will happen. its safe previding keys don't change on reformat. I must say I like how che has it where licence files are tied to each system. At 04:18 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hello, It is my understanding that people who were upgrading from Mac Leopard to Mac Snow Leopard paid $35 for the upgrade last year. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com On 6/21/2010 9:19 AM, shaun everiss wrote: hmmm I got it off a cast in bct, about the mac, must have been a special deal or something. At 11:34 p.m. 20/06/2010, you wrote: Hi Shaun, Ummm...What OS is $30 for a full OS upgrade? I certainly haven't seen any that low. Windows is at least $99 for an upgrade, and around $199 for a full retail version. Mac OS is something like $120 for a full retail version. Linux is, of course, free to download. On 6/20/10, shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz wrote: yeah not to mention that os upgrades are stupidly priced like something like 30 bucks us for a full os upgrade. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Dark, Interesting that you braught this topic up. I've been working on a white paper on this issue, and was planning on publishing it it after I am done upgrading the USA Games website. However, the conclusions in my white paper are pretty much the same as yours below. Hardware based product registration doesn't work. For one thing in my white paper I site a number of products such as Windows Vista, Windows 7, Jaws, etc that use some kind of hardware based licensing such as tying the product key to the computer hardware or in Jaws's case a dongle. In each and every case I was able to locate cracks for each of those software products one could download and install that would disable or remove the licensing system in the software. That, of course, proves that no matter how good you think your security system is there is someone out there who can break it and then redistribute the crack to others over the internet. In fact, my research seams to show the more difficult you make it to crack the registration system the more crackers will try and break it until they eventually find away to do so. It is like a big challenge to them. However, the bottom line is that given enough motivation any security system can be cracked by someone with enough skill to do so. I then go on in the white paper to discuss the many ways that hardware based license keys have harmed both the developer and the legal customer alike. For one thing developers have to constantly deal with key replacements, because computers and hardware often does change invalidating the license key. Usually, companies like Microsoft charge lots of money for a hardware key replacement which is totally unfair to the customer as he or she has likely purchased a legal copy of the software, and shouldn't have to pay extra for a new key. At least not a large sum of money. Bottom line hardware based keys are a major inconvenience for everyone involved, and don't even stop piracy from taking place. The final section of the white paper goes into the problem that hardware licensing, current marketing, etc hasnt' addressed the underlying issues involved in software piracy. Instead of addressing those issues as best as we can the software industry has decided to forge ahead with more and more restrictive licensing systems, and as a result the legal customers suffer more than the pirates it was suppose to protect the software from. One of the big issues, of course,is money. The number one group of people most likely to pirate software are those who are finantially unable to purchase the software legally. Jaws, for example, is a very expensive piece of software for most people, and the problem is made worse when you take in account the majority of Freedom Scientific's customers are unenployed and living on some sort of disability income. They don't offer any kind of payment plan, nor do they lower their prices for foreign markets where the income is considerably less than in the united States. Do to the current price of the software and the way it is marketed it is not surprising that someone somewhere would crack it and make it available to those low income
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
my brother will be there on Monday June 21, 2010 we will talk later I'm at work Take care Jenn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dark d...@xgam.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:30:12 To: Gamers Discussion listgamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
I can relate to what Thomas Ward wrote concerning registration methods in his white paper. My Dad used to say that we should always lock the door when we leave the house. He would not buy big heavy locks, chain locks, or other such devices to keep burglars out. He said, If you make it really difficult for someone to get in, you've just told them that there is something really valuable inside. Now, they're going to be more determined to get it from you, and they will get it. So, not only have you lost the battle, but you've also lost the war. You spend the money to keep them out, and they'll certainly get in. - Original Message - From: jenni...@4dewitt.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods my brother will be there on Monday June 21, 2010 we will talk later I'm at work Take care Jenn Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: dark d...@xgam.org Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:30:12 To: Gamers Discussion listgamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi, Exactly. Part of it is a certain attitude, a mentality, that black hatters have. The more difficult the ssecurity system is the more determined the black hatter is to crack it. At that point it is less to do with pirating the software than the thrill of breaking a difficult security system, and being able to brag to his/her buddies on the internet that he or she broke this or that security system. Black hatters love to brag about their accomplishments, and there is no glory in cracking something easy to crack. Dark Wrote: I can relate to what Thomas Ward wrote concerning registration methods in his white paper. My Dad used to say that we should always lock the door when we leave the house. He would not buy big heavy locks, chain locks, or other such devices to keep burglars out. He said, If you make it really difficult for someone to get in, you've just told them that there is something really valuable inside. Now, they're going to be more determined to get it from you, and they will get it. So, not only have you lost the battle, but you've also lost the war. You spend the money to keep them out, and they'll certainly get in. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
That's probably why a lot of people are switching over to Mac, and not merely because you don't need to pay for a separate screen reader with Mac computers anymore. I'd get one myself but for a lack of funds. Of course even if I do I'll probably always have a Mac and a Windows machine around so I have both for when I need them. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods when he sent my keys, David told me is upgrading to a more purely hardware based system which wont be upset by crashes etc which will be an improvement. Nevertheless I do agree, though certainly David is much nicer about providing new keys than microsoft, though once more thats a general rule of indi developers, sinse A, they are more in touch with their actual customers personally and not behind some huge faceless company, and B if word of mouth spreads that their treating customers badly, they could seriously lose out. beware the greu! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods Hi Bryan, Definitely. I have never fully agreed with GMA's decision to use there current licensing system either, but I do understand where David Greenwood is coming from. He felt the old system was too week, and it was far too easy to pirate the GMA software. Unfortunately, the new system is too restrictive if you don't know how to defeat the registration system, and yes I know of some cracks out there to break the registration system for the GMA Games. So in the end what did switching to the new registration system really accomplish. Not really much. Black hatters will always, always, always find out how to defeat your security system leaving the developer wondering why his/her great security system failed. Meanwhile those of us who paid for the software, did things the legal way, have to put up with more and more restrictive licenses that makes it harder to install a game on more than one computer or install it on a new one when we get rid of our old one. On 6/18/10, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I couldn't agree more. I recently had my laptop's hard drive go out on me and therefore it had to be replaced, though thankfully it was still well within the warranty I purchased along with the machine a year ago. It also helped that my dad had created system restore CD's the instant the laptop was configured properly after taking it out of the box. But anyway, at the time of the crash I had copies of SOD, GTC, LW and even Sarah on the machine. But even though I've managed to reinstall and reregister most games i haven't written to request new keys for the GMA titles precisely because of this situation. The sad part is that SOD used to be a name and key-based system, at least back when I purchased it back in '04. It's fortunate because at the time I was using a dinosaur of a computer running WIndows 98 Second Edition with only 64 MB of ram. Then the machine had a stroke or something and died on me, and then I moved out here to Idaho and, since I was living with my folks I was using my mom's computer which was even older. But fortunately the unlock code I had for SOD was valid, so I was able to install it on the new machine. This was still V1.0 as I recall. THen 1.2 came out and switched to hardware-based registration and every time i've had to get a new computer or the computer has crashed I've had to write David. I'm just glad he's thus far been willing to replace keys, but it just proves the point that if people would stick to name-based keys this probably wouldn't happen so much and the developer could focus on the really important stuff. We are the Knights who say...Ni! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Dark, In a nutshell that's what my white paper tries to point out. A lot of companies Microsoft and Freedom Scientific included have payment plans and marketing strategies that are extremely exploytive in the first place and instead of trying to work with their customers, make the software affordable for their respective customers, they turn around and spend lots of money on very restrictive hardware licenses that harm the customer more than the pirates. I have a friend up in Canida who got a new dongle for Jaws and the dongle didn't work from day one. Jaws failed to recognize it, and several technical support calls later Freedom Scientific said he'd have to pay for a new one. You got it. Instead of giving him a new one they wanted something like $50 to send him a new one even though he had just paid for the new dongle, and it didn't work from the day he got it. So I wouldn't exactly blame him if he went online and grabbed a crack for Jaws and just turned the Jaws authorization system off completely. However, he went ahead and paid for the dongle replacement,and that time it worked. Still he was screaming mad about it, and felt he had been screwed by Freedom Scientific. I definitely don't blame him for feeling that way. The thing is these major corperations don't realise that they are themselves in part to blame for software piracy. They charge too much for the software, use unfair marketing tactics, and then make matters worse by using very restrictive hardware licenses that harm the customers more than the pirates. Taken from that view I have very little sympathy for the major corperation who has their expensive, over priced, software pirated. On the flip side some companies such as Goldwave Inc. ar very fair to their customers. The software is priced at something like $50 or $60 which is reasonably priced for someone on a fixed or low income. Plus they use a very simple licensing system and it is fine with me. Sure there are plenty of people out there cracking it too, and I do feel sympathy for them because they put their trust in the customers by giving them a simple and not very strong licensing system. One designed to keep the honest customer honest in other words. However, this does come back to the fundimental question does piracy really harm the company? One way of looking at it is that generally speaking a pirate is someone who would not legally purchase the software anyway. either they don't have the money or they just like using software for free. Whatever his/her motivations for using a pirated version of the software is if they aren't going to buy it to begin with you haven't lost any money on the sale of the software, because the pirate isn't going to buy it in the first place. So you haven't lost any money to speak of yet. The other way of looking at this is if a pirate likes your software well enough to crack it it must be something very good for him/her to put the effort into cracking it. That's cold comfort, of course, but it does mean the software is something desirable. Something people want to own and maybe we should take that as a compliment instead of an outright insult. It is always possible, I suppose, the cracker/pirate will have a change of heart and pay for a legal copy somewhere down the road. The one thing I haven't mentioned, but is also true, is the open source movement. Most of the folks in the open source movement etc are people who have grown tired of the commercialism of big name companies like Microsoft and have set out independantly to create free and low cost versions of commercial products. Open Office, for example, is a free clone of Microsoft Office available for Windows, Mac, and Linux. NVDA is a free screen reader for Windows. the list goes on. All of those sorts of projects were started by programmers unwilling to continue paying for expensive software, and dealing with restrictive licenses etc. Major companies need to sit up and take notice that independant developers will happily create a similar product and make it available for less than the going rate of the commercial product it was based on. On 6/18/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi tom. interesting stuff indeed, my brother had a distinctly similar issue with one of the earlier versions of windows, though sinse Dolphin provided his laptop originaly which subsequently blew up shortly after use, they were kind enough to replace it. I do approve of the system employed in Moti even if it isn't secure, sinse it does mean i can have my copy of monti with all installed levels stil available, even though the machine I bought it for is no longer around. in the end I supioose your simply relying on a belief in the integrity of your customers. I myself will freely pay, --- or in several cases donate, to something if I think it is worthwhile. Certainly not everyone will do this, but hopefully enouygh people will to make the software a viable proposition. i will confess that I
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Dark, Very true. A lot of open source projects have been stopped in their tracks for that very reason. Simply that licensing something like mp3 rights would cost the developer x amount of money out of pocket and therefore is incompatible with a free and open source product. Same goes for sounds and music. If you buy it the purchase of the license would come out of the developer's pocket, and the distribution of the same isn't compatible with an open source type license either. However, that's not really what I was getting at in my prier post. I merely wanted to point out that several commercial products suchas screen readers, office programs, e-mail clients, web browsers, etc have been duplicated by open source developers and in many cases are just as good as their commercial counterparts. That gives those on a fixed income something else to consider before buying a commercial product or pirating it. That has to hurt the companies on some level as it is hard to justify paying $450 for Microsoft Office when Open Office is free, and in many cases works just as well I haven't used the Windows version of Open Office much since it has accessibility issues that need to be addressed, but the version for Linux works fine with Orca. . On 6/18/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. The only problem with taking ideas of free and open source projects too far is the business of components, sinse while a lot can be done for free, certain programs, games included often require the programmer to perchice libraries, sound effects packs music and the like in order to make them viable, and in that case it does indeed seem rather unfair that the developer has to fund all of that themselves. Oncemore, it comes down to everybody being reasonable, sinse if the developer charges a reasonable price, most people who want the software will probably buy it and thus support the project and it's future developement. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi. With all the talk of shades recently I fancied going back and replaying it. However, I noticed to my horror, probably due to my user accounts crash last december all my gma engine games have got deregistered sinse my computers' user code has changed. I now have to unfortunately go and pester david and phil to send me new keys. While I'm sure both of them will, this does bring up a point. while I certainly see the point of having game registration, it does strike me that the method employed can have a lot of knock on effect not just for the end user, but for the developers, sinse I'm sure both phil and david have far better things to do than generate new keys for me just because my computer went temporarily screwey. While I'm fully aware there are scumbags who will trade reg keys and pirate software, or trade downloadable program install files for those who use a secure download method like 7-128, I do have to wonder if ultimately having the registration so tied to such a changeable value as the users' own hardware is any the better, and if the effort is worth the cost. the online registration method that people like Jason are using, or the incripted name method used by Philip bennifall, do strike me as a reasonable compromise, sinse they are easy for the user to recover themselves without having to bug the developer. I'd be interested to know what method tom is planning with mota. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi Dark, Interesting that you braught this topic up. I've been working on a white paper on this issue, and was planning on publishing it it after I am done upgrading the USA Games website. However, the conclusions in my white paper are pretty much the same as yours below. Hardware based product registration doesn't work. For one thing in my white paper I site a number of products such as Windows Vista, Windows 7, Jaws, etc that use some kind of hardware based licensing such as tying the product key to the computer hardware or in Jaws's case a dongle. In each and every case I was able to locate cracks for each of those software products one could download and install that would disable or remove the licensing system in the software. That, of course, proves that no matter how good you think your security system is there is someone out there who can break it and then redistribute the crack to others over the internet. In fact, my research seams to show the more difficult you make it to crack the registration system the more crackers will try and break it until they eventually find away to do so. It is like a big challenge to them. However, the bottom line is that given enough motivation any security system can be cracked by someone with enough skill to do so. I then go on in the white paper to discuss the many ways that hardware based license keys have harmed both the developer and the legal customer alike. For one thing developers have to constantly deal with key replacements, because computers and hardware often does change invalidating the license key. Usually, companies like Microsoft charge lots of money for a hardware key replacement which is totally unfair to the customer as he or she has likely purchased a legal copy of the software, and shouldn't have to pay extra for a new key. At least not a large sum of money. Bottom line hardware based keys are a major inconvenience for everyone involved, and don't even stop piracy from taking place. The final section of the white paper goes into the problem that hardware licensing, current marketing, etc hasnt' addressed the underlying issues involved in software piracy. Instead of addressing those issues as best as we can the software industry has decided to forge ahead with more and more restrictive licensing systems, and as a result the legal customers suffer more than the pirates it was suppose to protect the software from. One of the big issues, of course,is money. The number one group of people most likely to pirate software are those who are finantially unable to purchase the software legally. Jaws, for example, is a very expensive piece of software for most people, and the problem is made worse when you take in account the majority of Freedom Scientific's customers are unenployed and living on some sort of disability income. They don't offer any kind of payment plan, nor do they lower their prices for foreign markets where the income is considerably less than in the united States. Do to the current price of the software and the way it is marketed it is not surprising that someone somewhere would crack it and make it available to those low income markets that simply can't afford it. The second group of people likely to use a crack are those who purchased the software legally, but want to disable the hardware licensing for perfectly reasonable reasons. Usually,it comes down to the fact the end user frequently updates his/her hardware and constantly needs to request new keys for all of his/her software. A quick fix for that problem is to grab a patch that simply turns the hardware licensing off, and gives them more freedom to use their software in the way that they choose without restrictive licensing systems. That's a situation I can fully identify with personally. As I have mentioned many times back in February 2007 I purchased a legal licensed version of Windows Vista for my desktop. However, when my wife and I moved in July the desktop didn't survive the move. I purchased a new processor, motherboard, updated the ram and got it running like a top again. However, the nice new copy of Vista I purchased only six months earlier came up asking me for a new product key and locked me completely out of the operating system. I called Microsoft, explained to them what happened, and if I could have a new key. They told me because I had replaced the motherboard, processor, etc that that constituted a new computer license and wanted to charge me full price for a new key. Now, that was hardly fair considering I had purchased a legal copy in good faith, and the computer dying wasn't my fault. I told them to cram it up their butts, got online using my laptop, and downloaded a little crack that disabled the license key and my desktop ran perfectly fine with that crack until I updated to a legal copy of Windows 7. Given the facts of the matter one might be hard pressed to call this piracy. After all I had purchased a copy of Vista legally, and events out of
Re: [Audyssey] Registration methods
Hi tom. interesting stuff indeed, my brother had a distinctly similar issue with one of the earlier versions of windows, though sinse Dolphin provided his laptop originaly which subsequently blew up shortly after use, they were kind enough to replace it. I do approve of the system employed in Moti even if it isn't secure, sinse it does mean i can have my copy of monti with all installed levels stil available, even though the machine I bought it for is no longer around. in the end I supioose your simply relying on a belief in the integrity of your customers. I myself will freely pay, --- or in several cases donate, to something if I think it is worthwhile. Certainly not everyone will do this, but hopefully enouygh people will to make the software a viable proposition. i will confess that I am far less! likely to pay for something if I believe I am being asked to pay an unreasonable amount or indeed (as in the case of windows), practically buy something twice. i will say though this is perhaps where the independent software industry is far ahead of others, sinse indi developers are more in touch with their customers have nothing approaching a monopoly, so have to be more reasonable. it almost reminds me of when i was in Egypt last year bargaining for things in the street markit. People wanted to sell, I wanted to buy, so we worked out an agreed price, --- with some help from our Egyption guide to see things didn't get too out of hand. Many people on the tour said it was a backwards practice, but it actually seemed in many ways more honest to me. Btw, I will confess that is another thing that really doesn't incline me to be fond of jaws, the patyment system seems blatantly exploitive. with hal, I was bought an initial license back in 2000 with my uni grant, though said initial license cost £600 at the time but is I believe now going for £400, about 600 usd. this license lets me install Hal on up to three machines, with a new key or machine available every six months (though sinse Dolphin know me they're quite happy if my computer goes down to give me a new key anyway). sinse then, hal upgrades, which come out roughly every 18 months, cost around £120, --- about 180 usd, though I'm in no way beholden to buy said new version upgrades unless I want to (I completely missed version 8 sinse all it added was vista compatibility). registrations are tracked online, so no need even to write in new keys beyond adding my name in a form. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
