Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse

[Michael Schumacher via gimp-developer-list]

Am 19.10.22 um 07:43 schrieb Joel Rees via gimp-developer-list

Not a confidence builder. Which means, yeah, lurkers like me will likely
disappear from the community.


Lurking is comparatively easy, though - if you are on
https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/gimp and logged in (this isn't really a
different requirement to being subscribed to a mailing list), you have
the notifications bell icon on that site, and can select there what kind
of notification mails you are receiving for this tag. I've set this to
"Watching", for example - this should allow me to follow the discussions
just like on an existing list.

One downside is that you can't really determine from the notification
mails that they are for the gimp tag, but their List-ID header tells you
that they are from GNOME discourse, at least.

What can be expected is a much higher volume than on the lists, though -
so taking care of the notifications with mail client rules is likely a
necessity.

--
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Michael



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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gegl-developer] [Gimp-user] Discontinuation of mailing lists and moving to Discourse

[Michael Schumacher via gimp-developer-list]

Am 18.10.22 um 02:29 schrieb Jehan Pagès via gegl-developer-list:
[...]

Now we could always try to fight against the current and persuade
GNOME infrastructure team, but we made a small opinion tour among the
current core team and nobody really had particular love or use of our
mailing lists. Also we realize it's very low volume these days (barely
a few threads per month, counting all mailing lists together). Myself
I barely look at mailing lists every once in a while and make a random
answer sometimes. And there were several mailing lists I was not even
subscribed to (I did for the sake of this announcement). So that's
probably why none from the core team is really trying to fight this
change.

There is one more thing to take into consideration: more
infrastructure means more work. I said it above, I am exhausted by
this all. I was only managing one of the mailing lists so far (the
gimp-gui one, the most recent) and still had to regularly handle
spams. I am personally thankful that this work goes to GNOME admins now.


Spam did indeed heavily outweigh the on-topic messages on the other five
mailing lists for quite some time - and anyone who's ever maintained a
mailman-based mailing list can likely confirm that spam handling there
is not as comfortable as doing this in e.g. a capable mail client.


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Michael

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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-user] GIMP-2.10 and GIMP2.99 are still sRGB-only image editors

[Michael Schumacher via gimp-developer-list]

On February 5, 2021 12:59:50 AM GMT+01:00, Elle Stone 
 wrote:

>I was able to write code that fixed some of the bugs I reported for 
>GIMP-2.99 color management. But once I reached the point where further 
>coding requirements exceeded my coding ability, progress simply
>stopped, 
>with everyone else saying "some day" proper color management for GIMP 
>would be a priority. I began to feel like the best way to make sure a 
>bug would never get fixed, was to have the dreaded "Concepts: Color 
>Science" tag attached to it.

You make it sound like introducing this tag was a wrong decision. As I 
introduced it as a way to group thhese issues together, did I do something 
wrong there?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] no save/discard/cancel dialog after doing a gradient

[Michael Schumacher]

On 10/17/20 9:06 PM, Cristian Secară wrote:

> Yes, true.
>
> Although this somewhat makes sense, it seems not quite consistent (well, in 
> my opinion): if I initiate the gradient and then save the image without prior 
> pressing , then the saved image *does* contain the gradient applied.
>
> BTW, this applies the same to rotate, perspective, cage etc.

There have been specific changes to address the behavior on save and
export when a pending tool action is present - see e.g.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/1202

and

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/1180

Getting a save/discard/cancel dialog depends on whether the image is
modified, which it likely isn't considered as such at this point.

You should probably file this as an issue at

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Bug

[Michael Schumacher]

On 10/17/20 8:27 AM, Albert Einstein via gimp-developer-list wrote:

> Dear Developers,

Hi Albert,

> I have noticed a bug on the iMac version:
>
> When I am opening a pdf file, and select 300dpi resolution, then, when I go 
> to Scale Image, I see that the resolution has changed to 72dpi, but the 
> overall size in pixels remains the same.
>
> Then, if I export this file it is converted into a massive file (in pixels) 
> to compensate the drop of resolution. I do not have this problem with the PC 
> version.
>

> Could you please look into it and fix it?

this is the following issue:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/4194

Ironically, this was caused by a change done to prevent the current
default value of 300 ppi from unconditionally overwriting any value an
imported image might specify instead.

It is fixed as of 2.10.16, but unfortunately we currently do not have
anyone who can build the macOS packages.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Python vs Scheme

[Michael Schumacher]

On 7/22/20 8:30 PM, Massimo Fidanza via gimp-developer-list wrote:


> I looked around a bit and saw that already with the release of Guile 2.0,
> developers had been offered support to replace the TinyScheme interpreter
> with Guile
> https://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-developer/13578-gimp-and-guile-2-0
> why then this was not happen?

It seems like Julian never followed up on Marco's suggestion to get this
into Git.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] No Lua or Python in Gimp 2.99

[Michael Schumacher]

On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Ofnuts wrote:

> This looks more like an environment problem (path?)
>
> Any hints?
What environment variables do you have set for your prefix?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] [ANNOUNCE] GIMP 2.10.20, babl 0.1.78, GEGL 0.4.24

[Michael Schumacher]

On 6/12/20 9:18 AM, Cristian Secară wrote:
> În data de Fri, 12 Jun 2020 03:02:08 +0300, Ell via gimp-developer-list a 
> scris:
>
>> Sorry about that.  There are a few characters in the Romanian
>> translation (namely ??, ??, and ??) that can't be converted to the
>> encoding the installer uses (Windows-1250).  If there are some other
>> characters you can use instead that are supported by Windows-1250, we
>> could add the translation.
>
> No, I don't want to alter my language because of an impotent software. It is 
> inadmissible in year 2020 to stick to an 8-bit character encoding, whatever 
> that encoding is. Or perhaps GIMP is supposed to be installed on Windows 
> 95/98/ME too ?

The installer software being used is Innosetup:
https://jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php

If you happen to know if and how this can be made to use Unicode, then
please let us know - I think I asked about that once, and while it may
seem possible, there were some pitfalls. Jernej might know more about this.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Recommendation on GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 5/28/20 3:08 PM, yang junjie via gimp-developer-list wrote:


[Moderator's note: this message has also been posted on the gimp-user
list and already has replies there, see
]


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Logon to gitlab.gnome.org broken?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 5/24/20 11:20 PM, Ofnuts wrote:
> While trying to report a bug, I try to sign in,  but on the logon page:
>
> - the "standard" option seems disabled, only the LDAP version is enabled
> (but I have no account for that)

Stanrd signup attracted too many spammers, LDAP login is for developers,

> - the "3rd party login" links all elicit an error 404.

these seem to work for me, and

> So, how can mere mortals report bugs? Or is it temporary?

you need to ask the sysadmins of gitlab.gnome.org about that - the best
way to do this is on the #sysadmin channel on irc.gnome.org

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Regarding gimp.org website rewamp

[Michael Schumacher]

On 5/1/20 4:15 AM, Rohan Keskar18 via gimp-developer-list wrote:

Hi Rohan,

> Hey, Are you guys willing to switch your gimp.org website to react and
> node.js stack, I'm willing to do all the coding for free, I will redesign
> the website and will code the whole website, I just need too know that you
> guys will at least consider this before committing to it.

our website has deliberately been designed to use minimal javascript, to
have no outside dependencies, and it is built to be static via the
python-based pelican site generator.

We also have no plans to do any revamps just for the sake of doing them.

So, thanks for the offer, but I think we'll pass :)

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Deleting on images with alpha channel does not delete

[Michael Schumacher]

On 2/5/20 11:36 PM, Ofnuts wrote:
> On 2/5/20 2:55 PM, Hanno Böck wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've been asked to bring this discussion to this mailinglist.
>>
>> There's an issue with GIMP that can lead to unexpected disclosure of
>> private information if one tries to use GIMP to remove private data
>> from images.
>> The problem is that when someone "deletes" something with GIMP in an
>> image with an alpha channel it's not actually deleted, the content is
>> just set to be fully transparent. This can of course trivially be
>> reversed.
>>
>> A typical situation where this might become problematic is when somene
>> makes a screenshot for e.g. a social media post and wants to remove
>> something that is private, e.g. a name/address/creditcard number etc.
>>
>> Will Dormann who works for CERT/CC has reported this as an issue[1],
>> however it was closed arguing that this is expected behavior.
>>
>> FWIW I agree with Will Dormann here that this is very surprising
>> behavior, and thus it should be considered dangerous and should be
>> changed. He also told me he tested multiple other popular graphics
>> editors and GIMP is the only one with this behavior.
>>
>> (Also FYI I am planning to write an article about this for Golem.de.)
>>
>> [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/4487
>>
> And why should this mailing list make any difference?

For the records, Hanno mailed me directly and asked for a statement
(presumably for use in the article), and I replied asking him to put
this on either the developer mailing list or to comment on the issue
referenced above, to give more people the possibility to participate.

(pippin and I have added additional comments to the issue today, as we
think they might be better stored there).

> I'll even go further in the reasoning. If it makes sense for
> PNG/WEBP/GIF, why wouldn't it make sense for the XCF format itself?
> After all some poor souls could send someone an XCF where their credit
> cars number has been erased in a layer (as a Gimp forum owner, I see
> people routinely upload their XCF files fro all to see...). So we would
> have to also clear these data in XCF layers, making the whole editor
> unusable?

I've written a bit about what I think needs to be addressed there in my
second comment to the issue, namely ways to explicitly inspect and
redact what is exported, without destroying it in the source file.

There's also a Tweet (with several sub-threads) referenced in the issue
report, with points being made for either behavior of Delete by
different people.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Heur.AdvML.B virus detected in gimp-2.10.14-setup-3.exe

[Michael Schumacher]

On 1/15/20 4:11 PM, Watson, David W. (MSFC-ES62) via gimp-developer-list
wrote:

> I tried downloading gimp-2.10.14-setup-3.exe from the server today and 
> Symantic detected the Heur.AdvML.B virus. Can anyone confirm this?

The check at VirusTotal comes up clean:

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/e892450123f00aaa672f31f532ebdccfbba8b444862281cade047f7fcb5aa503/detection

I guess you're seeing a false positive, this is quite common for
Heur(istic) patterns.

Make sure your Symantec is updated - especially its detection patterns -
and if the issue persists, then send the file to them to have it checked:

https://submit.symantec.com/false_positive/


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Automaticly append file extensions when exporting

[Michael Schumacher]

On 1/15/20 4:23 AM, john silver via gimp-developer-list wrote:

> The program should automaticly append the file extensions when
> exporting. If you export it as a PNG then the .PNG extension should
> be tacked on the end.

Works for me, the file name extension is adjusted to the extension of
the file type I choose in the export dialog's "Select File Type" list.

> If you try to manually change the extension to something different
> then the file type like trying to save a JPG format with a .PNG
> extension then the program should give you a warning message and ask
> if you are sure you want to do that.

Also works for me, when I change the extension, I get a dialog stating
that the extension doesn't match the file type, and asking me if I want
to do this anyway.

If both don't work for you, can you provide the list of steps you do?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Can I import from pdf?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 11/1/19 4:22 AM, Ash Fitchett via gimp-developer-list wrote:
> Hi

Hi Ash,

> I am an average computer user.  I use an i-mac laptop and have files in pdf 
> format that I wish to change into jpeg.  Can this be done using Gimp?  I 
> would like to create a jpeg image of individual pages.

you should be able to  do this - when opening the PDF file in GIMP you
get a dialog where you can select what pages to load in what resolution
to render them in, and then this has happened you can export the image
as shown as a JPEG file.

There are different approaches and tools that can make this a lot
faster, especially if you have PDF files with many pages or many files -
ImageMagick is a common go-to utility for this and available for many
platforms.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] macOS Catalina is not compatible with the newest Gimp

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 11.10.19 um 14:35 schrieb Diqi Yan:
> Hi gimp developers,
>
> So the problem is I cannot save and open my files after I update to Mac
> Catalina, it just keeps saying I don’t have permission to open or save on my
> documents or desktop, I tried to call apple customer service and they say they
> cannot help me, I should contact you guys about this problem.

The Apple customer service should have told you that Catalina has more
fine-grained control over what folders and files applications can
access, and how you can grant access to the folder for GIMP - if that is
possible.

We're basically hoping that someone with developer-level macOS
experience comes along and adds what is necessary to solve
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/issues/3710 - it could be that this
can't be solved in GIMP, but has to be addressed in the libraries we use
(GTK, in this case).


P.S. please make sure that your mails contain both HTML and plain text.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] help compiling babl

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 28.08.19 um 13:09 schrieb Marco Ciampa via gimp-developer-list:

>> Retry: now (that apparently devs switched to meson also in GEGL, now it does 
>> not compile

> Found! Apparetly it was missing a package, whose lack, meson was not able
> to detect ... resolved with:
>
> sudo apt install libgirepository1.0-dev

You could make it a habit to be on the #gimp IRC channel - we've gone
through this some weeks ago, and you'd likely have had someone suggest
it the moment you asked about it :)

> perhaps gegl devs should add a test or something?
>
> Anyway now I have a problem with the GIMP compilation...
>
>   CCLD script-fu
> //usr/local/lib/libgegl-0.4.so.0: undefined reference to 
> `babl_format_get_n_components@V0_1_0'
> //usr/local/lib/libgegl-0.4.so.0: undefined reference to 
> `babl_model_with_space@V0_1_0'

Are you sure the correct babl is picked up?

Figuring this out would also be something more easily done in a more
interactive medium.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Git and Bugzilla migration to gitlab.gnome.org - action items and important hints

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/03/2018 12:08 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
> On 05/31/2018 12:01 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
>> On 05/22/2018 05:46 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote:
>>> Everyone who is receiving Bugzilla mails for comments and status changes
>>> of GIMP bugs will receive about 1400 mails. If you do not want this,
>>> disable mail on your Bugzilla preferences or unwatch theb...@gimp.org
>>> user there temporarily:
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
>>>
>>> Bugzilla will stay around for bug research, but no bug tracking will
>>> happen there for migrated projects anymore.
>>
>> Hi Michael and All,
>>
>> How/where does one sign up to receive gitlab mails for comments and
>> status changes of GIMP bugs? I'm guessing that re-enabling Bugzilla
>> preferences won't do the trick.
> 
> Maybe there is a link to a page with the requested information, that
> someone would be willing to share?

Notification settings can be changed per project on the project pages -
e.g. on https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp

The default is to use Global default settings, but this can be changed
to receive everything about a project, or just explicitly watched
issues, mentions of https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
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[Gimp-developer] Git and Bugzilla migration to gitlab.gnome.org - action items and important hints

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi all,

GNOME is migrating all projects to https://gitlab.gnome.org

This GitLab instance is replacing both the current GNOME Git repository
and GNOME Bugzilla.

On 2018-05-23 (tomorrow/today, depending on time zone), GIMP and its
bugs will be migrated.


This has some effects and requires some action:

1. HINT: Lots and lots of Bugzilla notification mails

Everyone who is receiving Bugzilla mails for comments and status changes
of GIMP bugs will receive about 1400 mails. If you do not want this,
disable mail on your Bugzilla preferences or unwatch the b...@gimp.org
user there temporarily:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email

Bugzilla will stay around for bug research, but no bug tracking will
happen there for migrated projects anymore.

GitLab uses the term "Issues" instead of "Bugs". Once we're migrated
we'll start fine-tuning the project settings and provide an update mail
about any important changes.


2. ACTION ITEM: gitlab.gnome.org accounts

Make sure you can log in to GNOME GitLab:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/users/sign_in

Everyone who has Git commit access has a GNOME LDAP account and can use
it to log in there - but you have most likely forgotten your password.
Follow the instructions on
https://wiki.gnome.org/AccountsTeam/RetrieveYourGNOMEAccountPassword to
get a temporary one and use the GNOME Account system to set a new password.

Everyone else should sign up for a standard account - using a Google,
GitHub or GitLab account for authenticating is possible.

And do not worry: if anything goes wrong, the admins can help you.

Regarding actual git usage, anonymous Fetch URLs continue to work, but
will eventually have to be changed, Push URLs will have to be changed
immediately. More about this when we have been migrated and tried this
ourselves.


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Mandatory Use of GIMP?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 04/23/2018 11:49 PM, Andrew Keene wrote:

> Are you aware of any hacktivists involved with your development [...] 
We're reading this mail in the GIMP HQ during our
pre-Libre-Graphics-Meeting stay in Sevilla and are just as surprised as
you, dear fellow readers.

Neither did anyone of the group write it in any heightened state of
awareness.

Honest.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] #gimp irc invitation only?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 01/15/2018 09:17 PM, Elle Stone wrote:

> [INFO]    This channel is invite-only. You must have an invite from an
> existing member of the channel to join. Use "/knock #gimp" to ask the
> channel operators to invite you in. [Knock]
> 
> Any ideas what's going on?

There was a netsplit, and when reconnecting, one of the servers set the
channel mode to +i(nvite only)

There is no obvious reason why it should be set this way, so I changed
it back.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] fix gimp

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 28.12.2017 um 08:30 schrieb Boudewijn Rempt:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Michael Schumacher wrote:

>> Anyway, I prefer list replies instead of direct messages with list in
>> cc. I've only cc'ed Named Brand here because they are not subscribed.
>>
> 
> Me too, but it seems this list isn't setup like that?

It uses the RFC 2369 List-* headers.

Your mail client might have a dedicated reply function for invoking List
replies - or it may not have support for them yet?

There seem to be slightly more recent versions of Alpine around, maybe
you should give those a try.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] fix gimp

[Michael Schumacher]

On 12/28/2017 12:45 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 1:42 AM Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
> 
>>
>> This, actually, is also how Photoshop works: one Krita developer spoke to
>> a Photoshop developer during a recent conference and picked his brain...
>> Photoshop makes a copy of the image for _every_ state. Any undo state is a
>> shallow copy of the document.

For the records, I haven't received Boudewijn's message - maybe because
GMX's rather strict requirements (SPF et al) are not satisfied?

Anyway, I prefer list replies instead of direct messages with list in
cc. I've only cc'ed Named Brand here because they are not subscribed.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp .msi version

[Michael Schumacher]

On October 24, 2017 10:15:54 AM GMT+02:00, Marco Ciampa via gimp-developer-list 
 wrote:

>Some people have asked me about a Windows msi gimp version for a
>centralized installation procedure.


>Is there any .msi official version?

No.

>If not, why?

Because the installer creator we use does not support creating .msi packages.

>If there are any around, can we trust those version?

In general, no. We only trust what is available from gimp.org.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP testing cooperation

[Michael Schumacher]

On 10/05/2017 04:08 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote:

> Hello Sam,

[...]

> I don't really understand what triggers this sudden anger but I see
> you are quoting one of my last emails. And if that is your trigger,
> then you got the opposite of its meaning since what it meant is that
> *you* were the one in charge since *you* are the one who does right
> now! So whoever who wants something different has to go through you
> first then help you make things happen.

Speaking of which, I think the following is an issue with the build
environment:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=787115

P.S. Sam, do you receive Bugzilla notification mails for these bugs?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Trouble with building Gimp 2.9.5 against libmypaint

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 24.06.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Thorsten Stettin:
> Am 24.06.17 um 18:08 schrieb Michael Schumacher:

>> P.S. please do not hijack old threads on the list for new topics, create
>> new messages for those. Changing the subject is not sufficient to start
>> new threads.
>>
> Hijack old threads? Are you kidding me? 

No, I'm not.

There's two header lines from the your message which started the current
topic:

[...]
In-Reply-To: <3578e766-a90f-ea46-2cb0-372a7bbe5...@gmail.com>
[...]
Subject: [Gimp-developer] Trouble with building Gimp 2.9.5 against
libmypaint
[...]

Note the "In-Reply-To". You have started this message by replying to an
existing message and changed the subject. You shouldn't do this, as it
gets threading all wrong.

This can be avoided by starting a new mail message to the list address
for new topics.

> Who do you think you are?

Someone who knows that the actions described above are called thread
hijacking, or threadjacking.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Trouble with building Gimp 2.9.5 against libmypaint

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 24.06.2017 um 16:34 schrieb Thorsten Stettin:
> Am 24.06.17 um 14:00 schrieb Partha Bagchi:

>> It has been mentioned at least 3 times in as many days. :)
> This don't impress me much.

Do you follow the GIMP and libmypaint bug trackers? If not, then you
should do so (and read the notifications you get).

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=783936
https://github.com/mypaint/libmypaint/issues/92


P.S. please do not hijack old threads on the list for new topics, create
new messages for those. Changing the subject is not sufficient to start
new threads.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIT version doesn't compile with libmypaint (GIT version)

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 21.06.2017 um 22:44 schrieb shark0r:

> In my study
> viewzoom : Effects speed-related parameters like Fine speed, Gross
> speed, Offset by speed.
> viewrotation : Add this value to angles of elliptic dab and direction
> parameter, measured in radius. Seems to effect tilt too but I don't have
> a tilt-supporting tablet to test it.
> 
> From their names they seem to be used with canvas zooming and rotation.
> Since GIMP already calculates canvas zooming and rotation by itself,
> just set them as default values, which are viewzoom=1, viewrotation=0.
> 
> If you need a patch, here:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByvJcJmOQlkRNVVhREtneEZHYmc

The libmypaint master branch is supposed to be unstable right now, see

https://github.com/mypaint/libmypaint/issues/92


The best approach would likely be to let the libmypaint developers
finish these changes and then check what needs to be changed for GIMP.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Request information

[Michael Schumacher]

On May 16, 2017 9:17:10 AM GMT+02:00, C R  wrote:

>Hi Francesco - no need to be sorry. :)
>Regarding your question, GIMP should be able to import and export EPS,
>so it was not a concious decision to stop supporting the format or
>anything. 

Have a look at the commit log for the gimp-2-8 branch:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/log/?h=gimp-2-8

tl;dr: 

When creating and testing the 2.8.22 installer, Jernej found that the 
Postscript and MNG  plug-ins crash on 32 bit Windows platforms. 

The decision was Mae to rather have no support than crashing plug-ins.

Anyone who want to change this is invited to figure out why the crashes happen 
- the best way to start would be to be on the #gimp IRC channel on European 
evening to learn fron Jernej how exactly the filters were crashing. 



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Re: [Gimp-developer] Please migrate to GitHub/CMake

[Michael Schumacher]

> Von: "gregory grey" 

> In my experience "ain't broke" is a standard mantra of organizations
> stuck in the past.

GNOME *is* currently pondering to move to a different infrastructure - in 
particular to get issue tracking, revision management and continuous integrate 
more integrated.

More details available here: 
https://wiki.gnome.org/Initiatives/DevelopmentInfrastructure

> @ All, since we are having this conversation, one thing I always wanted to 
> ask.
> Why do you spend your time on filters. I mean, you as a team spend
> month(at least this is my impression from backlogs) on fixing, porting
> them, etc, etc.
> I can't recall I time I've ever used anything except Sharpen/Blur.
> 
> I mean, why carry the load of all the "Van Gogh"s and "Ripple"s

Um... not that many changes there...

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/log/plug-ins/common/van-gogh-lic.c
https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/log/plug-ins/common/ripple.c


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Re: [Gimp-developer] script recording

[Michael Schumacher]

On 03/10/2017 07:17 PM, Paul Thompson wrote:

> I am working on a script recorder for GIMP. I actually have a small
> grant for this from ORI.

Nice.

The lack of answers here is most likely because people think you are
concentrating on a tiny step, without having a big picture of what you
want to achieve. It would be useful if you could elaborate on the
overall design of your planned recorder.

Have you considered anything that is suggested in the script recorder
feature request in Bugzilla, or taken hints from previous attempts at
script recording in GIMP (there have been some, web searches should be
able to find them)?

Also, it would be good if you could make it a habit to be on the #gimp
IRC channel on irc.gimp.org - European evenings work best to meet other
developers there.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Development mosaic plugin

[Michael Schumacher]

On 03/08/2017 09:01 PM, José Alves wrote:

Hi José,

> De: Shlomi Fish 

> On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 20:51:00 +
> José Alves  wrote:
> 
>> Dear all
>>
>> I need your support from the upadted the mosaic comand. Where I found the
>> coperation to solve this point.
>>
> 
> I'm not sure I understand you because your grammar is broken. Do you wish to
> get help with updating the mosaic plugin? What kind of help do you need? Which
> issue have you run into? Can you be more specific?

> I need upadted the comand mosaic. Existy some person can help me?

can you try to answer the questions Shlomi asked in his mail?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] dev compiling question

[Michael Schumacher]

On 02/03/2017 09:14 AM, Marco Ciampa via gimp-developer-list wrote:

> I bet I committed something stupid (as usual) but I cannot figure it out...

Did you use "commit" in its generic meaning of "done", or did you commit
changes to your local source tree?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] string freeze

[Michael Schumacher]

On 02/03/2017 08:51 AM, Marco Ciampa via gimp-developer-list wrote:

> Please, next time, before officially release even a bugfix/stable
> version, call for a string freeze just a couple of days before...

We had announced a string freeze before the actually planned release
date at the end of October 2016.

Since then, I'm not aware of string changes. The translations that had
100% completion do seem to agree with my assumption.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Windows 10 and Bash on Ubuntu

[Michael Schumacher]

On 02/02/2017 08:05 PM, Petteri Soininen wrote:

> Windows 10 introduced an Ubuntu Bash shell, so I'm interested if anyone
> has compiled GIMP using that environment. I tried, but I'm just a newbie
> and got into problems where gegl didn't see babl etc. so my environment
> variable settings were probably either wrong or not effective or I just
> messed up something. 

Hi Petteri,

this is the point where you should explain what you did in regard to the
environment variable - as detailed as it would be necessary for someone
to reproduce what you did, without knowing what you did.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Deactivating or Hideing Script-fu Server Function on Win10

[Michael Schumacher]

On 02/01/2017 01:42 PM, berci wrote:

> How can I deactivate or hide Script-fu Server on my Windows 10? I would like
> to hide the Start Server menu Item (only this) in all User profile. 

If you do not need the functionality, the easiest way would be to move
the script-fu-server plug-in either out of your plug-ins directory, or
you could change its file name extension (.exe) to something else.
.exe.off is a common usage for such caseswith some users on the Windows
platforms.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reporting bugs for 2.9.5?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 01/11/2017 06:59 PM, Thorsten Stettin wrote:

> I understand, but I need to provide packages for Ubuntu LTS versions at
> least. I'll do my very best regarding backporting. Shit!

Not necessarily - you could decide "no, users of LTS versions where
dependencies are not available aren't going to get the bleeding-edge
development versions of GIMP.

Or you could try to switch to one of the emerging package formats like
AppImage or Flatpak et al and provide 2.9.x this way. This might also
help with having both 2.8.x and 2.9.x available to the users at the same
time, thus maximizing their ability to compare their behavior.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reporting bugs for 2.9.5?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 01/11/2017 06:40 PM, Thorsten Stettin wrote:

> Why do you need libpng >= 1.6.25, and lcms2 >= 2.7 in order to build
> Gimp 2.9.5 - commit 36ebe03770fd8b87102e95cd6c45b194a45a8ba3?

libpng 1.6.25:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/commit/configure.ac?id=a5073ad9289f7e05ef38d2ce99dc71e91983b434

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=765850


lcms2 2.7

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp/commit/configure.ac?id=0ce364ee4dd2200e6607a4575af0cc657600afc9

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736701


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reporting bugs for 2.9.5?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 01/06/2017 05:37 AM, Casey Connor wrote:

> Hi -- I'm using GIMP 2.9.5, the "edge", via the
> otto-kesselgulasch-gimp-edge PPA.

Hi Casey,

> Is it appropriate to report bugs for that version at bugzilla.gnome.org,
> or is it too alpha for bug reports?

yes, it is appropriate.

Even more than appropriate, it is essential to GIMP development:
If you do not report bugs in a development version, then it is likely
they stay in for all eternity unless someone else happens to encounter
the same same.

This is under the assumption that you are going to update GIMP from this
repository quite frequently, as changes happen every day.

If you are afraid to report bugs other people have reported already,
then use the bug tracker links below to search for the issue you have
encountered before reporting a bug. But even if you find one, you may
still be able to contribute additional information, especially if
comments in the bug ask for this.

The question remaining would be where to report the bugs, as both the
gimp-edge repository maintainer and GIMP itself maintain a bug tracker,
respectively:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/~otto-kesselgulasch

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=GIMP


The GIMP developers prefer when bugs encountered in third-party builds
(this includes Linux distros, too) are reported in the bug trackers
specific to that build.

>From there, it can either be forwarded by the build and/or tracker
maintainers is deemed necessary. It can also be done by the users
reporting the bugs, either to ensure the bug is known in general or if
the maintainers turn out to be unresponsive.
Please include a reference to the other bugs in such cases.

For build made from the code as-is, it almost doesn't matter where the
bug is reported. But there can still be platform-specific issues the
build maintainer is much more aware of than the GIMP developers are.

For modified builds, getting the build maintainer to do an active part
in bug research and triaging is crucial.


> If it's appropriate, what version should I pick from the menu: "git
> master", or "unspecified" (and then specify in the description,
> obviously)? The version options only go to 2.9.4.

An important thing to realize is that there is not "one" 2.9.5, but many
- this version number is used by the current development master branch,
and so every build made from there currently uses the 2.9.5 version
number. So using "git master" is appropriate.

The 2.9.5 version serves as an indication of what we are dealing with in
general - a build made from the development branch past the 2.9.4 release.

The commit id can become interesting if we're trying to figure out if a
bug may still be present, or if it is supposed to be gone already. The
commit id is shown in the empty image window and in the Help -> About
dialog, and looks like "commit 8a15064" with whatever commit id your
build was based on.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Unified transform tool issues on GIMP 2.9.5

[Michael Schumacher]

On 11/20/2016 08:44 PM, Sandrine camille Marquis wrote:

> Since today's GIMP update (20/11/2016), I've come across an issue
> with the 'unified transform tool' (on my last updated GIMP version).
> After applying my layer transformation by using this tool, this does
> no longer display the new resized layer. (the layer remains empty and
> then, translucent). Furthermore, if I save my work, close GIMP and
> then, re-open it, the resized layer remains empty and translucent.

This is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774708

A bug in gegl, showing up on platforms where the decimal separator isn't
a '.'

Fixed already - if you build gegl yourself, just rebuild. If this is
with a distro- or third-party-package, either wait till it is updated or
file a bug with the provide of the package(s).


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Re: [Gimp-developer] [PATCH] app: avoid D-Bus error message when built without D-Bus support

[Michael Schumacher]

On October 20, 2016 11:13:22 AM GMT+02:00, "Ingo Brückl"  
wrote:
>> It is pointless to connect to a message bus when GIMP has been
>compiled
>> without D-Bus support. Although it's harmless, the resulting error
>> message is confusing and should be avoided.
>
>> So only compile gimp_unique_dbus_open() in its entirety if
>> HAVE_DBUS_GLIB.
>
>>  app/unique.c | 3 ++-
>>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
>
>Anyone?

Can you file a bug in Bugzilla and attach the patch there?
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[Gimp-developer] gimp-2-8 branch string freeze till 2016-10-27

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi,

I'm announcing a string freeze for the gimp-2-8 branch till 2016-10-27
to give the translation teams time to update the translations for a GIMP
2.8.20 release.

The corresponding mail to the gnome-i18n list is available at
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2016-October/msg00035.html

During a string freeze, any changes to or addition of translated strings
is a no-go. See
https://wiki.gnome.org/TranslationProject/HandlingStringFreezes for
details (but ignore the mention of specific GNOME branches there).

Patches without changes or additions of translatable strings can go into
the gimp-2-8 branch during this time frame. Everything else will
have to wait until the release is made, if at all: In general, string
changes should be kept to the absolute minimum in the stable branch.

This does also apply to cherry-picking commits from e.g. master - if
there is an important bug fix with a string change, check if you can
apply just the fix to gimp-2-8.

It is also a good idea to mark any bug in Bugzilla by the "string"
keyword if it alters strings in any way.

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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 07.10.2016 um 10:19 schrieb Ezekiel Leo:

> i  suggest that an additional feature is added to the upcoming gimp release
> that enables one to begin a project add layers and texts without having to
> initially open an already existing image

File -> New...


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP Windows 10 app

[Michael Schumacher]

> Von: "ricardo oosterling" 

> There is a new Desktop Bridge to convert it easily to an app. Please let me 
> have your thoughts about this.

This has been suggested on Twitter as well, you can follow the progress in this 
thread:
https://twitter.com/0M9H4X/status/778640429143232512

If you have an idea why compiled python debug modules - effectively DLL files - 
fail to be handled by the tool, please let us know.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 5:41:02 PM GMT+02:00, Marco Ciampa  
wrote:

>So the point is really "who cares about (some) OSX (users)"?

We care about supporting platforms if there are people whom we get contribution 
from - be it contributed code, high-quality bug reports and enhancement 
requests, effort to get binary packages built, ...

In a way, you could say we care about platforms if some of their users care 
enough about GIMP to help us care about them.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 3:44:47 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl 
 wrote:

>AFAIK, on Inkscape things just looks a bit uglier. On Gimp, it's either
>lose half the pixels, OR view everything at 2x zoomed. No way to grab
>parts of a screen and view it next to the original on the same screen without
>losing half the pixels. That'a a pretty major issue IMHO.

Yeah, we got this reported as https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725263

Basically, it seems as if moving to GTK+ 3 is the only real way out; this is 
planned for the GIMP 3.0 release.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP development- What's the point?

[Michael Schumacher]

On September 23, 2016 3:25:33 PM GMT+02:00, Marius Kjeldahl 
 wrote:

>Doesn't the linked blog post explain it already?


So the tl;dr is: there is no support for retina display (or other high dpi 
displays).

Or did I miss any other kissues in the post?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Script-fu, Windows 10

[Michael Schumacher]

On 08/02/2016 09:01 AM, Lechner Peter wrote:
> Dear Gimp Developer,
> 
> I have installed Gimp 2.8.16 and have errors to run my Script-Fu-scripts 
> which are running under Windows 8.1 without any problem. The error-massage 
> said that there are some unbound variables:
> 
> [cid:image001.png@01D1EC9B.9DB780B0]

Hi Peter,

please upload the images to an image hosting site and provide the links.


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[Gimp-developer] ANNOUNCE: GIMP 2.8.18 released

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi,

we are releasing GIMP 2.8.18 with a number of bug fixes, including
the fix for a vulnerability found in the XCF loading code:

CVE-2016-4994
Use-after-free vulnerability in the xcf_load_image function

https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-4994

This is a bugfix release in the stable 2.8 series, no
new features were added.

For a complete list of changes since 2.8.16 please see the "Changes"
section below. Also see the release notes of the 2.8 series at
https://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.8.html

Happy GIMPing,
--Michael


Download


  GIMP 2.8.18 is available from:

  https://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.8/

  and from the mirrors listed at:

  https://www.gimp.org/downloads/#mirrors

  Please use the torrent, it distributes
  the download bandwidth across all mirrors:

  https://download.gimp.org/pub/gimp/v2.8/gimp-2.8.18.tar.bz2.torrent

  The checksum of the tarball is:

  5adaa11a68bc8a42bb2c778fee4d389c  gimp-2.8.18.tar.bz2


Overview of Changes from GIMP 2.8.16 to GIMP 2.8.18
===


Core:

 - Initialize fontconfig cache in separate thread to keep GUI
   responsive on first startup
 - Properly recognize layer masks as deactivated, e.g. for moving layers
 - Create $XDG_DATA_HOME if it doesn't exist
 - (CVE-2016-4994) Multiple Use-After-Free when parsing XCF channel
   and layer properties
 - Fix progress access to prevent crash on rapid sequence of commands
 - Fix crash in gimp-gradient-segment-range-move


GUI:

 - Disable color picker buttons on OS X to prevent a GUI lockup
 - Disable "new-style" full-screen mode on OS X to prevent a crash
 - Pulsing progress bar in splash screen to indicate unknown durations
 - Fix gamut warning color for lcms display filter
 - Fix unbolding of bold font on edit
 - Prevent accidental renaming of wrong adjacent item


Installer:

 - Change compression settings to decrease size by 20%
 - Add Catalan, Danish, French, Dutch


Plug-ins:

 - Fix crash on sRGB JPEG image drag & drop
 - Fix ambiguous octal-escaped output of c-source
 - Fix KISS CEL export
 - Fix progress bar for file-compressor
 - Make Script-Fu regex match return proper character indexes for
   Unicode characters
 - Fix Script-Fu modulo for large numbers


General:

 - Documentation updates
 - Bug fixes
 - Translation updates


Contributors


  Adrian Likins, Ell, Jehan, Jernej Simončič, João S. O. Bueno,
  Kristian Rietveld, Massimo Valentini, Michael Natterer, Michael
  Schumacher,  Pedro Gimeno, Shmuel H, Simon Budig, Sven Claussner,
  Thomas Manni


Translators
===

  Alexandre Prokoudine, Anders Jonsson, Ask Hjorth Larsen, Balázs Úr,
  Baurzhan Muftakhidinov, Christian Kirbach, Cédric Valmary, Dimitris
  Spingos, Dimitris Spingos (Δημήτρης Σπίγγος), Dušan Kazik, Gábor
  Kelemen, Marco Ciampa, Mario Blättermann, Martin Srebotnjak, Piotr
  Drąg, Rafael Fontenelle, Sveinn í Felli, Tiago Santos, Милош Поповић,


-- 
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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Pencil - Tool Options and Hardness

[Michael Schumacher]

On June 22, 2016 1:07:35 PM GMT+02:00, Alexandre Prokoudine 
 wrote:
>On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Ofnuts wrote:
>>>
>>> the Pencil tool is a classic.
>>
>> A little-used classic. It has its uses (pixel art), but on the whole
>I have
>> much more often redirected pencil users to the brush that the
>reverse.
>
>...so that they would not be able to draw pixel-perfect rectangles and
>lines?
>
>Because whenever people want that I tell them to use the Pencil tool.

... and then there is the people who simply don't have to ask, because they 
just know or try.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Proposal for bug-/patch-related Git branches

[Michael Schumacher]

> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 09. Juni 2016 um 13:05 Uhr
> Von: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com>
> An: "GIMP Developer List" <gimp-developer-list@gnome.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Gimp-developer] Proposal for bug-/patch-related Git branches
>
> On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote:
> 
> > we've got a lot of patches attached to various bug in Bugzilla, many of 
> > then unreviewed (currently: 77) and, for the most part, untried.
> 
> Just a quick addendum. Here's how one can find them:
> 
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=patchreport.html=GIMP=none

And you can specify a different status, like

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=patchreport.html=GIMP=needs-work


Some of them are linked from product pages, see

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/page.cgi?id=browse.html=GIMP

and here's my bug report to link more/all of them (some are shown conditionally 
if there#s a least one attachment in a state):

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=767119


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[Gimp-developer] Proposal for bug-/patch-related Git branches

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi,

we've got a lot of patches attached to various bug in Bugzilla, many of then 
unreviewed (currently: 77) and, for the most part, untried.
There's also a large number of patches in the needs-work state (currently: 61), 
meaning that someone has reviewed them and determined that there are changes to 
be done.

There are some efforts to get them applied, but this doesn't seem to be an 
ongoing. It isn't obvious who might be working on applying a patch, and patch 
contributors do not get much visible feedback.

I think we're not using the power of Git to its full potential here. 

We can easily have someone apply a patch to a local bug-specific branch, check 
if it looks basically correct, maybe try if it compiles (this can be difficult 
if it is intended for a different platform), and then push this branch to 
origin to make it available for testing by others, changes, fixes, ...

The goal for those branches would be to be merged/cherry-picked into the 
branches master, gimp-2-8, ... as applicable and desired, and the temporary bug 
branch could be deleted after all of its changes have become part of these 
branches.

I've done this locally for several of the attachments we currently got in 
Bugzilla, and pushed one of these branches, bug-357818, to enable someone to 
build and test it. Bug 357818 is about a change to the TWAIN plug-in, and I 
don't build on, for or run the platform it is intended for. The build test 
enabled us to spot and remove some erroneous characters that have been added 
when I had to adjust the patches to the current state of the plug-in.

Possible advantages can include nightly builds of those branches, if we think 
that some bug fix should get much user exposure before it is added to a release.


I vote for encouraging to have public branches that correspond to bugs/patches, 
and name them in an obvious way. I'm not booked to the bug- naming 
scheme, but found it useful for this purpose.


Comments, opinions, suggestions? (but please try to keep the bikeshedding down)


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Error during Make - Last update of Git Master, today

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/08/2016 04:14 PM, Americo Gobbo wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have update GIMP Git master (git pull -r) but the 'make' is presenting
> error.
> 
> Make output: https://goo.gl/38ykFt

Hi Americo,

pasting this to https://paste.gnome.org/ will make it much easier to access.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Delay with 'Lock brush size to zoom' feature enabled - 2.9.3 GIMP Git Master

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/03/2016 08:55 PM, Americo Gobbo wrote:

> I am testing the feature 'Lock brush size to zoom' and I have noted when is
> enabled is causing delays in the stroking processing... it is normal?

Stroking as in stroking a path or selection, or painting?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/04/2016 04:25 AM, Gez wrote:

> The most pressing issues (like performance and quality) are constantly
> postponed. But hey, we have a new dark theme and new icons.

We have these because there are people interested in them and
contributing to GIMP.

I'm not going to tell them to stop doing this. You?

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Proposal: rename Symbolic icon themes to Symbolic-Light and Symbolic-Dark

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/01/2016 11:57 AM, Jehan Pagès wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Tobias Jakobs  wrote:
>>>
>>> Even better would be to suport a piece of descriptive text included in
>>> the theme, but I'm not sure how it would get translated.
>>>
>> Even better would be an example icon. Then we don't need to care about
>> the wording that much.
> 
> There is already an example icon. I added this months ago!

... and I mentioned them in my original post, and gave an example of why
this might not be sufficient.

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[Gimp-developer] Proposal: rename Symbolic icon themes to Symbolic-Light and Symbolic-Dark

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi,

in the development branch, we got two Symbolic icon themes, Symbolic and
Symbolic-Inverted.

This hints at their relationship, as one is the inverted version of the
other. For those who know how the build works, it also tells which one
is generated from the other (by means of a gegl:invert-gamma op).

We also got five ui themes of different lightness and darkness, and the
user is supposed to use a combination of them suited to their own
preference and needs. I dare say many may consider light icons on darker
backgrounds or dark icons on lighter backgrounds a suitable UI design.

It is not immediately obvious to the user which icon theme is the dark
one and which is the light one, by theme name alone. There are icons in
the preferences, but there might not always be the advantage of using
them, for example when providing text-only support to a "your icons are
invisible!1!!"-type support request.

Therefore, I suggest to rename the icons themes to Symbolic-Light and
Symbolic-Dark, respectively, and keep them as such for the 2.10 release.

Other names to make the difference and the icons' appearance obvious are
possible as well, of course.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Ctrl-Shift-clicking your way to a new layer mask

[Michael Schumacher]

On May 24, 2016 1:42:57 PM GMT+02:00, "draekko.software" 
 wrote:
>Updated the patch to apply cleanly with latest master branch updates. 
>https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=759601
>
>After 6 months of updates hopefully people are using since it doesn't 
>likely it is to get commited.


Some feedback about how this works out for the people who tried it would 
certainly be helpful. 
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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Gitlab as a replacement for registry.gimp.org

[Michael Schumacher]

> Gesendet: Montag, 04. April 2016 um 15:48 Uhr
> Von: "Jehan Pagès" <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com>

> On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Michael Schumacher <schum...@gmx.de> wrote:

> > I am also still puzzled how the "one repository per 'script/plugin'" (we 
> > really need a better term for that concept) approach will be managed.
> 
> Let's call them "extensions" for the time being (since we already use
> the term "plugin" and "scripts", but I don't think we use the term
> "extension" yet). 

We do, and it has a very specific meaning - for example, Script-Fu is a 
GIMP_EXTENSION.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] [Gimp-web] Gitlab as a replacement for registry.gimp.org

[Michael Schumacher]

> Gesendet: Montag, 04. April 2016 um 12:03 Uhr
> Von: "Jehan Pagès" 
 
> When I read this, I understand that I am really not clear. 

> So no, I am not saying and have never said that we would grab
> repository from "elsewhere". I know patdavid seemed to have such an
> idea at some point, but I thought we made the point clear on IRC.

It looks like you went out of that IRC meeting with an different impression 
than I.


What I remember from the meeting:

- a repository or repositories *on gitlab.com* to host all of the official, 
curated resources
- encouraging other developers to use Git (on github, gitlab, savannah, ...) as 
well, and possibly add their repositories as submodules/subtrees
  (with technical details to be filled in by people who know about git than me)
- use gitlab.com as opposed to github to be able to (if the need arises, for 
example gitlab turning evil) host an instance ourselves and migrate everything 
there


I am also still puzzled how the "one repository per 'script/plugin'" (we really 
need a better term for that concept) approach will be managed.



Maybe this is a good time to remind everyone that Wilber, our IRC bot, has the 
Meetbot plugin installed:
http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html

Using it more frequently would make even small, rather informal meetings with 
all of their action items, agreements and disagreements easier to record.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP crashes at changing of theme

[Michael Schumacher]

On April 4, 2016 2:16:49 AM GMT+02:00, Akkana Peck  
wrote:
>Alexander Rabtchevich writes:
>> Grey icons from small theme become undistinguishable to me - they do
>not
>> have enough contrast between background and image.
>
>Kevin Payne writes:
>> Can you be more specific about which Icon Theme you are having the
>low contrast problem with and what your system colours are, as the
>Small Theme will use your system colours there is no way to know which
>Icon Theme is going to work best for you.
>
>I have that problem with the Symbolic icons with all the Light or
>Lighter themes. When I first switched my initial reaction was "Why
>are all the Toolbox icons greyed out?!" Once I realized they weren't
>greyed out, they looked like that all the time, I tried to work with
>them, but I found that I really couldn't see the differences 

That's why there is the Symbolic-Inverted icon theme. Its icons are created by 
inverting the Symbolic ones (the reason why current GIMP builds take so long) 
and contrast quite well with the light themes.

>Another question about theme switching: every time I switch themes,
>my toolbox resizes to four icons across, so small that tooltips has
>to show a horizontal scrollbar for most tools. It has to be six
>icons across to avoid a scrollbar, and I always have to resize it
>larger after switching themes. Is this intentional, or should I file
>it as a bug?

You can shrink the toolbox down even further by switching the various icon 
themes. I'd say that none of the switching should change any window sizes.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Export instead save directly

[Michael Schumacher]

On 03/01/2016 12:07 AM, C R wrote:

> To sum up:
> Multiple layers = Save = .xcf
> Single layer = Save = .jpg/.png/ imported file format

This would overload the Save action again - something we explicitly got
rid of by separating Save and Export.

Save   = XCF
Export = Everything else

Simple as that.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Icon sizes required

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 21.02.2016 um 09:27 schrieb Kevin Payne:

> So my question is this: Is there a way to get a correct list of all
> the required icon sizes as the current reference, icon-list.mk file,
> is inaccurate?

IMO our next step should be to restore the previous colored icons and
work on the new ones as a new icon theme.

We should be able to determine the correct sizes from the previous icons.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Problems with JPG?!

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 31.01.2016 um 16:29 schrieb Stefan Rohde:

> I can not display images that I have prepared and saved with GIMP 2.8.14
> (under Windows 10) in jpg-format on my TV or via a digital box (WD TV).

> Do you have an idea or information !?

It's most likely the Progressive option in the advanced part of the JPEG
export dialog.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Mixed gtk2 and gtk3 in gimp.

[Michael Schumacher]

On 01/24/2016 08:21 PM, Charles A Edwards wrote:
> 
> I have been doing more or less monthly builds of gimp from git.
> Doing the build this month I find that the gimp cloned from 
> git://git.gnome.org/gimp now requires the gtk3 mypaint.

It requires libmypaint

https://github.com/mypaint/libmypaint


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Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp 2.9 build on linux, now jpeg, tiff, etc are unknown file types

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 18.01.2016 um 11:57 schrieb John:

> There must be a simple explanation, I just can't think of it!

Check where you are pointing GIMP to find its plug-ins. This is in the
preferences.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Previous eMail Concern

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 10.01.2016 um 19:37 schrieb Jeevan Bhoot:

> Dear Sir/Madam,

Hi Jeevan,

> A while ago, I wrote an eMail to you regarding a sponsorship request.
> You denied the request which I respect. What I do not respect
> however, is that the email has been posted on the internet which
> violates my privacy and you would agree with me if you were in this
> same situation. 

This refers to
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list/2015-May/msg0.html

You did post to a public mailing list (just like now). It is expected to
have such mails published publicly.

> I was described as “untrustworthy” and that I am “not
> passionate for graphic designing” which you had no right to say as I
> was only a new designer and I was still working on new skills and
> techniques. Moreover, you do not know me well enough to speak such
> words. If you had actually met me and seen what sort if person I was,
> you would the disagree with your previous remarks.

And this most likely refers to the last mesage on the gimpusers forum:
http://www.gimpusers.com/forums/gimp-user/17210-jsb-designs-sponsorship-request#message80104

gimpusers.* is a third-party site, and not connected to the GIMP developers.

Someone there decided to user a user name that appears to give them an
official standing within the GIMP community:

http://www.gimpusers.com/users/GimpAdmin

We've got no idea who this is (a "Jeff" is unknown to us) - and stuff
like this is one of the reasons why that forum <-> mail bridge is put on
moderation.

> I am sorry if I offended you previously but the eMail i sent was
> friendly and only a request not a forceful demand.
> 
> I have written to you today to request for you to remove these posts
> from the Internet due to the exposure of my privacy and for the false
> remarks written within it which do now show a true light of who I
> am.

We can't remove it from gimpusers, you have to contact the maintainers
of this site: https://www.bitfire.at/ , via the gimpusers.* footer

You are lucky in a way, due to the forum<->mail moderation this message
didn't make actual gimp-user mailing list and thus didn't make it the
numerous archies of said list, either. One there, it would be impossible
to remove from the web.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] qpc mapping

[Michael Schumacher]

Am 02.01.2016 um 15:33 schrieb Ben Thurston:
> I posted a few days ago about a formula for conformal mapping, I have a
> python program listed at the bottom that does it to an arbitrary image and
> control points... I didn't see any responses to the last post so I don't
> know if anyone found it interesting or not...

There have been replies on the list to some of your previous messages,
but no reaction to those from you, as far as I can tell.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Ctrl-clicking your way to a new layer mask

[Michael Schumacher]

On 12/31/2015 04:18 PM, Ben wrote:

> Easy as i've explained before so many times, when you have have too many
> applications opened at the same time all competing for shortcuts, i
> already don't have enough keys to accomodate all them as is.  Maybe you
> don't have that issue but i'm hardly the only one in that situation.

What exactly would those applications be? Or does your platform make all
shortcuts used by any running application globally available?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] acceleration smoothing interpolation

[Michael Schumacher]

On 11/06/2015 09:26 PM, Ben Thurston wrote:

> I saw I got quite a few views to the blog from posting to this
> mailing list last time but no replys so I wasn't sure what that
> meant but if it's not relevant I'll understand,

It probably means that it is too abstract for most people and/or that
they have no idea what you are writing about.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] How to integrate mypaint with GIMP?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 10/12/2015 07:15 PM, Thorsten Stettin wrote:

> I'm able to build GIMP against libmypaint, but what's next?

With GIMP built against libmypaint, you can enable the mypaint brush tool:

>> With libmypaint it builds the mypaint brush tool which you need
>> to enable in prefs -> playground. It's very experimental :)

Get some mypaint brushes, and use this tool to paint.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Portable development environment for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 10/03/2015 04:03 AM, Liam R E Quin wrote:

> [...] but for the people who don't realize that there's a single
> command that will automatically download and install all those 100
> build requires Sam mentioned :) maybe Fedora, Mageia or Ubuntu would
> be better.

If I got it right, the idea of vagrant is that all the packages you'll
need will be installed as part of the VM creation/startup.

NB: if it is intended for development that is going to be contributed
upstream, there should also be a step that makes them set up Git
correctly - by asking for their name and an email address they want to
see published with their commits.

And a Git alias for anonymous access to git.gnome.org might already be
set up as well.

> For a VM I'm not sure it matters much what is used, although it
> takes me a day or two to download a Linux distribution here at speeds
> of up to 1.5Mbps so a lightweight distribution would seem to be a win.

I'm pretty sure that Debian can fullfill that - if we don't blow it up
artificially, for example by adding desktop environments with many
additional dependencies.

Also, if there are multiple pre-made images to choose from, we could
either pick a really bare one, or one that has most of the dependencies
installed already (the whole of GTK+, for example).

> But, given that for me it's almost always been a matter of git clone
> of 3 packages, and running autogen.sh and make install on each of
> them with a prefix, I'm probably not in the target audience.

Defining the target audience and their expected use would be important,
I think. For example, do we expect people to keep this VM around for an
extended period of time, or would they get it, do some quick
development, and then get rid of the VM again?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Portable development environment for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/28/2015 08:22 PM, Ofnuts wrote:

> Plenty of UIs and desktop managers, and plenty of development tastes...
> I'm myself on KDE, but if your VM was running Gnome or Unity, it would
> be useless to me. I do use a VM for some development that can only be
> done on Windows, but using a Linux VM over my existing Linux install is
> a bit wasteful?

A good idea would be to use a DE that has the same dependencies as GIMP
- XFCE comes to mind, as it is also likely the least demanding
environment of all mentioned so far, and still reasonably sophisticated.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Portable development environment for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/28/2015 08:40 PM, Sam Gleske wrote:

> FUTURE:
> Even when I maintain the build system at build.gimp.org there's regularly a
> "works for me" statement when the build system fails but it passes on a
> developers laptop.  These challenges hinder progress when having a
> repeatable build environment would solve these issues.

GIMP developers use Debian Testing, with the assumption that is anything
is present there, then a GIMP build can require it.

A build based on Debian Jessie, currently aka Debian Stable, will divert
from that over time, and might not even contain some of the required
dependencies. Due to the recent release of Jessie, this is not very
noticeable yet.

A moving target like Debian Testing is probably a less than optimal
building block for a vagrant-based approach.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Portable development environment for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/27/2015 08:35 PM, Sam Gleske wrote:

>1. Install vagrant https://www.vagrantup.com/
>2. Clone: git clone https://github.com/samrocketman/vagrant-gimp

Um... why is KDE in there?


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reg:Usuage of the Gimp for my Organization

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/18/2015 11:52 AM, Nikolam wrote:
> On 9/17/15, srikanth  wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You very Much for the information.
> 
> Of course GPL license is about source code and Binaries can have
> another license,

No.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reg:Usuage of the Gimp for my Organization

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/18/2015 08:15 PM, Nikola M wrote:
> On 09/18/15 07:10 PM, Gez wrote:
>> I wonder if saying that the only license pertains to the source code.
>> I'd say that the binaries are also covered by the license, since you
>> are obligued to make the source code available when you distribute the
>> binaries.
> 
> Source code is covered and source changes, if binaries are distributed.
> But binaries itself can have whatever licence one wants, if source and
> source changes are available.

You have yet to provide proof for this claim.

In case you missed it, your previous attempt at that is waiting for
answers to Alexandre's reply.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Reg:Usuage of the Gimp for my Organization

[Michael Schumacher]

On 09/18/2015 04:33 PM, C R wrote:
> I'd patch the new website code thusly:
> http://opendesignstudio.org/gimp/about/
> 
> My thought is the majority of people coming to the site are not going to be
> interested in altering the code, but rather using it.

> Thoughts?

Please check that your text covers all the freedoms of the Free Software
definition and does not contradict any of the statements mentioned there:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


P.S.
Deployment of Free Software within an organization, as it was the
initial question in this thread, quickly advances beyond mere usage.


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[Gimp-developer] gimp.org domain has been renewed, DNS updates are still happening

[Michael Schumacher]

Hi there,


I guess most of you have noticed that the *.gimp.org services had not been 
available yesterday.
In fact, everything was running just fine, but it wasn't reachable - the 
gimp.org domain had expired on 2015-08-03, so www.gimp.org, download.gimp.org 
and irc.gimp.org didn't resolve to an IP address.

If this happens, the domain registrar changes the DNS entries to point to a 
different IP.

The domain has now been renewed, and the DNS is updating to the correct IP 
address. Depending on how long this takes for the DNS server you are using, you 
might still see the Domain not activated message for some time.

If you are puzzled by the technical terms in the part above, you#ll find an 
explanation of DNS at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System 


If you are looking for download mirrors, you can grab them directly from the 
downloads list source file:

https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp-web/tree/programmatic/downloads/MIRRORS.in

(lines starting with a # are commented out and do not appear in the currently 
active list, this is either because those mirrors might not be up-to-date, or 
that I didn't get around to enabling them again [besides merely commenting them 
in again, this also involves setting up rsync access for them])

P.S. yes, our website is stored in version control - meaning that contributing 
content via patches is possible


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Branding documents for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

 Von: Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com

 On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 2:38 PM, C R  wrote:
  Okay, so I posted a summary of the gimp brand stuff to the gimp irc channel
  #GIMP. Am I to assume someone will eventually see it? I mean, is it logged
  or something?
 
 Not logged.

Not publicly logged, but logged. 

And for real meetings with action items and such, Wilber has got the Meetingbot 
plug-in installed.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Branding documents for GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/25/2015 04:10 PM, C R wrote:

 Hey everyone.

BTW, a lot of the everyday discussions happen on the #gimp IRC channel
on irc.gimp.org

If none of this discussion happens there as well, then this thread will
have a pretty disconnected feeling.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] Due diligence: Permission for usage of GIMP

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/23/2015 04:04 AM, Andrew Pullins wrote:

 Over in the LibreOffice project the design and marketing team made
 the LibreOffice Branding Guidelines [1].  It goes over everything from what
 the official spelling of the name, acceptable abbreviations, how the logo
 is to look with exact measurements, what colors are to be used with it, and
 the official fonts. I think this would be a great starting point for
 creating a design document.

Some people already mistake gimpforums.com for an official resource
because it resembles the www.gimp.org site rather closely.

I really wouldn't like to encourage or dictate that any site should use
the same colors, fonts and measurements.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/02/2015 12:48 AM, Burnell West wrote:

Hi Burnell,

 Do I infer correctly that  a Linux user need not know of or care about 
 BitTorrent using that link?
 If so, is it perhaps confusing to such folk (if any truly exist)?

our download links  for GNU/Linux users are currently more or less a
collection of this is how to use your package management instructions.

There is currently no package that a user could just download and run on
this platform. I know that several such approaches have been out there
(similar in style to Apple disk image .dmg files, IIRC), but I'm unaware
whether any of them is in widespread use, and I don't think we currently
have anyone with the expertise to build a package like this among the
core contributors (I could be wrong about this, though).

I have to admit that I do not fully understand your message, though -
but because of how the downloads page currently works, it is actually a
bit (too) hard for users of one platform to see the downloads for
another, so right now a user on a GNU/Linux system is most likely not
going to see the new downloads button that we're testing for the Windows
downloads, unless they wish to do so and use the show other downloads
link.

An advantage of platforms with package management systems is that
installing a BitTorrent client is just a few clicks or keys away, unlike
on the windows platforms where you have carefully step over the malicous
clients out there (this is a valid ciriticism that we will still have to
address for the Windows variant of our downloads page).


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/31/2015 06:49 PM, C R wrote:
 Sure, go for it. Let me know if you want/need anything else from me.
 Odd that it breaks. I can't get it to break on any of the browsers I'm
 using. :)
 
 If you'd let me know which browser is wrapping it, I can have a look at
 altering the code.

Iceweasel 38.0.1


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/31/2015 06:25 PM, C R wrote:
 Here are a few changes, based on new suggestions:
 http://opendesignstudio.org/gimp/samples/index2.html
 
 Windows capitalised (oops), and I've added (.exe) and (.torrent)
 to the link titles. This is for those that have a hard time reading fine
 print, and for some reason like the colour teal more than orange. ;D

This breaks horribly on my system. I'd suggest that we leave the titles
as before, the finer print should be noticeable enough in that version.

Plus, we can then use the same for the OSX page without any additional
changes besides the for Windows in the description for the first option


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/31/2015 06:40 PM, C R wrote:
 Michael, could you please elaborate on how the layout breaks, what browser
 you are using, etc? It will help me come up with better solutions.
 
 The code validates under HTML5, so I'm unclear as to waht might be causing
 the problems.

The (.torrent) makes the text too long, and the line breaks. This
overlaps with the via BitTorrent below.

I'm actually tempted to just go live with the latest version minus the
(.exe) and (.torrent) in the titles, some minor adjustment to the
description of the former, and we'll see how people like that.


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[Gimp-developer] GIMP project's official statement on SourceForge's actions

[Michael Schumacher]

This is the GIMP project's official statement on SourceForge's
actions[1] in regard to abandoned projects on their service.

We are fully aware that since their launch in 1999, SourceForge had been
providing a valuable service to the Free Software community and that
this service may still be relevant to some Free and Open Source Software
projects today.

The GIMP project did benefit from this service: SourceForge was the
place to download the Windows installer for GIMP for many years and we
appreciate it as an important part of GIMP history.

When it comes to distributing GIMP, our goal is to make it as easy as
possible for users to install GIMP.
We do not want our users having to dodge any offers or to worry about
possibly installing malware in the process.

With our shared history, it was painful to watch the invasion of the big
green Download button ads appearing on the SourceForge site.  Our
decision to move the Windows installers away from SourceForge in 2013
was a direct result of how its service degraded in this respect.

The situation became worse recently when SourceForge started to wrap its
downloader/installer around the GIMP project binaries. That SourceForge
installer put other software apart from GIMP on our users' systems. This
was done without our knowledge and permission, and we would never have
permitted it. It was done in spite of the following promise made by
SourceForge in November 2013 [2]:


we want to reassure you that we will NEVER bundle offers with any
project without the developers consent. (emphasis in original)


To us, this firmly places SourceForge among the dodgy crowd of download
sites.
SourceForge are abusing the trust that we and our users had put into
their service in the past.

We don't believe that this is a fixable situation.
Even if they promise to adhere to the set of guidelines outlined below,
these promises are likely to become worthless with any upcoming
management change at SourceForge.

However, if SourceForge's current management are willing to collaborate
with us on these matters, then there might be a reduction in the damage
and feeling of betrayal among the Free and Open Source Software communities.

An acceptable approach would be to provide a method for *any* project to
cease hosting at any SourceForge site if desired, including the ability to:


* completely remove the project and URLs permanently, and not allow any
  other projects to take its place

* remove any hosted files from the service, and not maintain mirrors
  serving installers or files differing from those provided by the
  project or wrap those in any way

* provide permanent HTTP redirects (301) to any other location as
  desired by the project


This is not unreasonable to expect from a service that purports to
support the free software community.



[1]
http://web.archive.org/web/20150529094757/https://sourceforge.net/blog/gimp-win-project-wasnt-hijacked-just-abandoned/

[2]
http://web.archive.org/web/20131115022447/http://sourceforge.net/blog/advertising-bundling-community-and-criticism/

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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 06/01/2015 01:14 AM, Gez wrote:
 El dom, 31-05-2015 a las 17:14 +0100, C R escribió:
 It does say via BitTorrent on the teal link.
 There's a good case to be made for just listing the torrent file as a
 smaller text-link after the orange download button, though. If I had my
 way, we would not be listing a torrent at all for windows users, as there
 are far too many things that can go wrong for that platform. However, I'm
 trying to present a solution that everyone is okay with. Esp the developers
 who will, in the end, be applying these patches to the site. Most of the
 devs have been supportive of keeping the torrent link (at least as)
 prominent as the direct download link.
 
 Hi,
 I just followed the previous posts and I confirm that it looked bad
 before you trimmed the text as Michael said.
 Now text fits, but the problem wasn't the length of text but its font.

 Thank you for taking care of this. Let me know if you need a hand.

This change is live now - it was rather easy to apply into the current
layout. Thanks, C R.

I've tested it on
http://testing.gimp.org/downloads/

and started the deployment to
http://www.gimp.org/downloads/

(remember: these pages adjust to your platform)

I think we should try that for the Windows downloads only for a few
days, probably make some adjustments to the code (I would prefer the
links to be usable without styling, right now the ordering of the text
is a bit weird then)

I've also got an idea how the platform switching can be done with the
current infrastructure in a rather easy way, but I do not want this
change to interfere with the deployment of those buttons.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] What next after sourceforge.net?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/30/2015 03:46 AM, Sam Gleske wrote:

 In fact, the direct download link for Windows is a tiny this link
 at the end of the description paragraph underneath the GIANT torrent 
 link.

As you can see in the thread I linked to, this is going to change - with
both links to be more prominent than they have been before.

 There are plenty of trusted binary hosting services for open source
 projects.  One not need look far for alternate hosting if the worry is GIMP
 infrastructure overload.

I'm actually not sure if it ever was a real overload, could also jut be
that the web server config we have limited the connections.

Nowadays, this does not seem to be an issue - probably due to the fact
that there are tons of torrent seeders for the current downloads, and
many people use it.

Changing to the current server was not entirely voluntary - we had our
previous one failing, and now GNOME generously provides a virtual
machine in one of the data centers the use themselves.

 Personally I feel the Download button on the front page should
 actually download the software (detecting your browser language and
 platform).

For that to work, it will have to be easy to switch between different
platforms.

 Regardless of the way in which the downloads are presented.  I do think the
 downloads page is pretty busy.  My friends need someone like me to help
 them sort it out when they're getting their copy of GIMP.  I feel that flow
 is in need of improvement.

I guess the new layout will make it easier for them.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] What next after sourceforge.net?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/29/2015 07:51 PM, Hanno Böck wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm not a GIMP dev or involved in any way, but a quick comment from me.
 
 One obvious thing: The easier you make it to find the legitimate / real
 download the less likely people will look for it elsewhere.
 
 Now let's assume I'm a windows user, not super skilled, but I heared
 that GIMP is a good graphics tool and I want to get it.
 
 Right now if I go to the gimp webpage I see a big download button. That
 looks good.
 However then it gets murky. I get to a download page that will offer me
 a bunch of stuff I don't need and don't understand.

See
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list/2015-May/msg00034.html
(the mail thread gets constructive beyond the first post).

In this thread, there is work on proposal for the downloads pages that
makes both the torrent link and the direct link (to e.g. the Windows
.exe file) more obvious. The reason for emphasizing the torrent file
over the direct link was to spread knowledge of BitTorrent and put less
load on our server, but having both as equals should work just as fine.

There has been another proposal on our #gimp IRC channel to make the
platform selection available again, I'm currently checking the status of
that.


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Sourceforge downloads

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/27/2015 10:02 PM, Pat David wrote:
 https://sourceforge.net/blog/gimp-win-project-wasnt-hijacked-just-abandoned/
 
 SF claims abandonment of the project, and no response from the maintainer.
 Of course, they may not consider a request to CD the delivery of the
 project as a response...

Over all that, let's not forget the wrapper installers. Which seem to
have been removed silently now - and are not being mentioned at all in
their blog post.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/14/2015 08:47 AM, C R wrote:

Hi,

 To save retyping, here is the current text:

we do not really have to worry about bandwidth usage (could be that the
webserver config is the limiting factor) and especially not about fees.

This allows us to make the texts a bit easier, and focus on the user
experience:

 This link downloads the GIMP executable for Windows platforms via gimp.org. It
 can be a bit slow at times, so if you are having problems, try the
 link below for download via BitTorrent

For BitTorrent, all of our torrents are set up with multiple web seeds,
so this will work even without seeders. As I wrote before , we tested
this in a university network at a conference, where torrent traffic was
blocked, and it did work this way).

 BitTorrent is a peer-to-peer file sharing system.
 BitTorrent works by downloading GIMP from a distributed network of
 mirror sites and from other BitTorrent users called seeders. Learn more...

What would be nice to have is a diff to the current download site (or
maybe even only the Windows.htrw part of it).


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/08/2015 05:58 PM, C R wrote:
 First try:
 http://opendesignstudio.org/gimp/samples/gimp_windows_download_buttons.png

Not really what I had in mind when you mentioned you planes, rather some
small table that takes the place of the current download links, and a
short, one paragraph explanation below each of them.

And can we use that Windows logo without any additional requirements?
That's actually one of the reasons why there is not click icon to get
to the windows downloads button on the downloads pages yet.

 3. Some users will not mind using a torrent client if it helps the
 community. We provide the second link for them, on the same level as the
 first link, with an article immediately following to explain what it is,
 why it helps, and how to do it safely. Also explaining the benefits of
 torrenting in-general shows them, it's not just a one-time bundleware
 thing: it's a valuable tool for everyone.

So which Bittorrent client do we link to?


 Note that I have removed all the known to work with information, because
 the only known non-working versions are for Windows RT and Windows packages
 so old it's a crime against the user to be using them in the first place.
 
 I did this based on these assumptions:

I added this list because questions like does it run on
98/ME/Vista/2000/NT4/... - and it did contain all known working versions
because a plain more recent than XP is apparently not enough by itself.

 I have thus replaced the list with an additional sentence at the end of the
 intro text on the page that says Works with all known versions of Windows
 except Windows RT.

There still seem to be a considerable number of people running XP SP2.
Not being able to run GIMP might be a wakeup call for some of them, yet
this whole change is done to avoid a different wakeup call, so maybe you
might want to reconsider...?


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/08/2015 11:36 AM, C R wrote:

 I prefer something simpler, with one download button for each link
 (dislocated separate green buttons for download are visually confusing, for
 example, especially if you are from a country that doesn't read from
 right-to-left.

Please make sure that the changed layout can still accommodate long
links, e.g. Download GIMP 2.8.14 or Download nightly builds


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/08/2015 08:03 PM, C R wrote:

 First try:

 http://opendesignstudio.org/gimp/samples/gimp_windows_download_buttons.png

 Not really what I had in mind when you mentioned you planes, rather some
 small table that takes the place of the current download links, and a
 short, one paragraph explanation below each of them.

 
 I hope I surprised in a good way then... :)

I expected the change to be as small as possible, really just present
the two existing links to the download options better.

 There are only two links on this page, so a table was not really necessary.

 Are you okay with the BitTorent link being second?

I'd be ok with having two links labeled Download GIMP 2.8.14 via HTTP
and Download GIMP 2.8.14 via Bittorrent right above each other, in any
order. This should also help to reduce the explanation for Bittorrent to
one short paragraph

To make this a bit more obvious, I'm imagining something like this
instead of the current few lines:

--

aDownload GIMP 2.8.14 via method 1/a

explanation for method 1, e.g. link to mirrors list, introduction
bittorrent including link to wikipedia article

aDownload GIMP 2.8.14 via method 2/a

explanation for method 2, e.g. link to mirrors list, introduction to
bittorrent including link to wikipedia article

--

I'm not really a fan of any images and/or icons being used for either.
though.

 3. Some users will not mind using a torrent client if it helps the
 community. We provide the second link for them, on the same level as the
 first link, with an article immediately following to explain what it is,
 why it helps, and how to do it safely. Also explaining the benefits of
 torrenting in-general shows them, it's not just a one-time bundleware
 thing: it's a valuable tool for everyone.

 So which Bittorrent client do we link to?

 
 We could use icons for the most popular ones and give a choice. uTorrent
 seems to be the most popular for Windows at the moment.

If that is µTorrent, then this one is proprietary. If we are linking
specific ones instead of the whole list, we should aim to only link to
Free Software clients, that do not have strange ideas about what to
include in their installers (and preferably not being hosted by
SourceForge).

 It's all just suggestions anyway, so I don't think listing the most popular
 one is necessarily endorsement of one over another.

 I could put Works with all known variations of Windows from Windows XP
 (SP3) to Windows 8.1 with the exception of Windows RT
 I find it funny that people would take time to ask and not just try it
 though...

They might not be able to test it for themselves.

 There still seem to be a considerable number of people running XP SP2.
 Not being able to run GIMP might be a wakeup call for some of them, yet
 this whole change is done to avoid a different wakeup call, so maybe you
 might want to reconsider...?

 
 Reconsider what? The whole thing

Reconsider the wording of the Windows version compatibility.


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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/08/2015 06:12 PM, Robert Krawitz wrote:
 On Fri, 08 May 2015 17:21:15 +0200, Michael Schumacher wrote:
 On 05/08/2015 04:46 AM, Robert Krawitz wrote:

 To what end?  Is this to help GIMP users in some way

 It helps them to get download speeds that are reasonable, even if many
 (or actually, the more) people download the files at a given time.
 
 Mirroring would help too.  There are plenty of services that provide
 that without messing with the content.

We do that. And the torrent files make use of the mirrors - they have
lots of web seeds each, so the client will download from many, if not
all, mirrors in parallel. Unless it finds other peers, of course.

The fact that a simple approach - just creating a torrent file with the
right settings and not having to setup anything on the server side -
allows for that was another contributing factor to consider the use of
Bittorrent.

And at the time we ran the initial checks, we were in a locked-down
university network (LGM 2014 at Leipzig university), and while the
Bittorrent ports themselves were blocked there, the web seed downloads
worked just fine, because they use HTTP.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/07/2015 09:39 PM, C R wrote:
 Yes, and to also force Bittorrent knowledge upon users.
 
 If I were a new user, I'd Google torrent and immediately get links for
 Pirate Bay and other dodgy stuff... nothing having to do with GIMP. 

Exactly.

The torrent files for GIMP are there to explicitly provide
examples that are different to e.g. movie downloads - to make sure that
this download method is not inherently linked to those.

 Thought we were trying to prevent people from going to 3rd party
 websites and downloading viruses accidentally. Having to install a
 3rd party downloader just to install GIMP is a pretty big hurdle for
 a lot of people, and they are likely to encounter lots of dangerous
 DOWNLOAD NOW buttons. ;) It takes trust in two different software
 packages just to install one program.

Yes, this is a problem - and the current way of linking the Wikipedia
Bittorrent clients list is not as good as linking one particular safe
client for the current platform.

For example, I pondered to go for Deluge for Windows, but didn't want to
remove people's choices in favor of my own personal preference - but if
there is some general agreement on good client options, we may link them
directly.

 I guess I'd ask: Is it more important to enlighten people (and are we
 really doing that, or just scaring them off, or needlessly endangering
 them?) about torrents, or is it more important to make the installation of
 GIMP as easy and enjoyable as possible?

 I suggest a few buttons with gimp icons, themed for the current gimp page,
 and table-formatted along with some text explaining what the options
 actually do, so you don't have to guess.

 Maybe a link to torrent tutorials /help files if the user wants to
 enlighten themselves, and we should say right away why torrents help us, so
 the user can make an informed choice.

Not sure if we need graphical buttons for that, though, links should do
just fine and end the impatient ones' hunt for the magical Download word.

 Well, I've been an ass, been diplomatic... now I'm thinking of being lazy.
 Anyone wants graphics, let me know. I'm glad to help.

You could also try to provide the patch for the HTML parts - these are
in Git, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gimp-web/tree/downloads
- the file name per platform should be obvious, and the HTML is rather
straightforward.


P.S. can you make your mail client reply to the list directly, instead
of cc'ing it?

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Michael
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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/07/2015 10:25 AM, C R wrote:

 Is the torrent listed first to save bandwidth on download.gimp.org?

Yes, and to also force Bittorrent knowledge upon users.

 If not, maybe we should offer up the direct download executable first
 to avoid confusion (and ranting and name-calling, apparently, lol).

The choice to endure the occasional complaint is deliberate.

 Generally I find most sites make dedicated button-looking graphics for
 various kinds of downloads.

Unfortunately, these graphics have been burnt quite a lot by ads linking
to malicious downloads, not using them so far is also a deliberate choice.

 I would be happy to make some up to disambiguate the downloading links, for
 our less torrent-savvy users.
 
 Thoughts?

People who do not read beyond the first line on our downloads page might
not be happy with using GIMP, we might be doing them a favor with the
current setup.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] wtf with the download?

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/06/2015 10:37 PM, Kevin wrote:
 On 2015-05-05 12:23, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
 I would be the first to acknowledge that our downloads page isn't fun.
 However I'm looking at it right now fro a Windows machine and I see a
 huge download link at the top of the page, so I have no idea why
 Farkas would even have to go as far as the list of mirrors.
 
 The big download button on the top of the main page just takes you to
 the downloads page. Buried a long way down the page is a link to a
 development version of GIMP for Windows. The page needs a link to the
 site that has the released versions of GIMP for Windows.

It takes you to the downloads page, adjusted to the platform you are using.


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Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP useability - choosing linear vs perceptually uniform RGB

[Michael Schumacher]

On 05/02/2015 01:28 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
 On 04/30/2015 05:43 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote:

 For examples have a look at the Save  Export and Single Window Mode
 specifications:

 * http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Save_%2B_export_specification

 * http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Single-window_mode_specification

 I am willing to write up formal specifications but only if there is a
 consensus from the main devs that the proposal for changing the UI to
 allow easy switching between linear and perceptual RGB might actually be
 seriously considered.

The specs as linked above are what convinced and convinces the main
developers of the usefulness of the changes.

So I will only write a spec if the main developers already agree with
said spec will be a bit hard.

 If the main devs are opposed to the idea then I don't want to put any
 more effort into the topic.

Any change needs support, preferably by many people who are involved in
the project already. If there is the choice between the status quo and
something they do not understand, guess what they will support.


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Michael
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