Re: [Goanet] India Rocking ? Pause Reflect.(Done)...
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- ralph rau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vineet Aggarwal of the Transport Corporation of India explains in the Economist the typical jouney of a truck journey between two great metro cities of India. Calcutta and Mumbai. This distance of 2,150 km takes 7 nights at an average speed of 11km per hour (yes 11 km/hr) and 32 hours spent waiting at toll booths and check points. Mario observes: Hey, Ralph, Thanks, I think, for another depressing scenario for India's lack of progress or prospects that you seem to revel in as a putative career pessimist:-)) I hope Bill Gates and Lakshmi Mittal and the other businessmen scrambling around India are not listening - except to me of course :-)) Anyway, did you know that back in the day, Indira Gandhi ran Mr. Moolgaonkar of Tata's out of her office when he suggested that India embark on a massive national highway building to rival Germany's Autobahn or the US Freeway system? She wouldn't hear of it because she said it would only enrich the industrialists. Never mind that, if managed by a combination of equipment and labor, it would have employed millions, created an economic tsunami, and opened up the country and the manufacturing economy for business and tourism. I think they should get back to Moolgaonkar's vision, which would still apply. Better late than never. Ralph writes: India has a long way to go. And to paraphrase the cynic - the living will surely get worse before it gets better Mario observes: After pausing and reflecting it seems to me that what India desperately also needs is some relief from all these cynics, from the anonymous one that Ralph cites to all of Cornel's educated friends to Elisabeth's favorite cynic, a guy named Malthus, whose pessimistic followers have been patiently waiting for him to be proven right for 200 + years only to be repeatedly confounded by those pesky optimists, aided and abetted by those problems solvers from the growing population pool:-)) Ralph continues doggedly: Go to doingbusiness.org/Economy rankings. In a ranking of 155 countries by ease of doing business in 2006, the World Bank and IFC ranks India at 116, two places below Iraq, 56 below Pakistan and 25 below China. Mario is bemused: At the same time that other lefties who oppose the liberation of Iraq are telling us that it is an unmitigated and deadly quagmire, doingbusiness.org ranks Iraq ahead of India as a place to do business. I hope Cornel and Gabe, George and Marlon are paying careful attention to this. This incredible source also ranks chaotic, backward, madrassa dominated and desperately struggling Pakistan way ahead of desperately liberalizing India and China, whereas you cannot get a flight into India or China these days for all the American and European businessmen scrambling to do business in India and China, whereas Air Pakistan wishes it were that lucky. I guess it all depends on who is doing the opining for doingbusiness.org. Ralph writes: We need to constantly remind ourselves of these harsh realities when faced with the euphoria of India rocking. We cannot and should not ignore or overlook the masses of the stinking poor who in India threaten to overwhelm the minority of the perfumed 150 million middle and upper class having discretionary income. Mario observes: Ralph, I think we constantly need to remind ourself that we need to forge ahead, with dogged determination, no matter what. I guess the adjective perfumed enabled you to adjust the widely accepted estimate of 300+ million middle and upper class Indians down to only 150 million. The rest are presumably not yet using western-style deodorants, or at least American-style based on the Europeans who were sitting next to me during my last flight :-)) Or maybe the figure came from that pesky doingbusiness.org and it's jaundiced outlook for India. Ralph, I don't know how old you are, but I lived through the first half of India's euphoric but chaotic and grossly wasted first 50 years after Independence. I escaped in despair. Now I am gradually creeping back as I see a glimmer at the end of the tunnel. The progress since they jettisoned socialism and began their unfortunately too-slow-for-my-liking but steady process of liberalization has been nothing short of amazing. So what if it is uneven right now? Even if you and doingbusiness.org are 100% correct, do you have a workable alternative that
Re: [Goanet] Goan girls avoid foeticide; made to wear salwar-khameez
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, I know you wanted the women on this forum to share their views on the matter of foeticide in India. Again apologies for the delay. Mario replies: Foeticide? Is that what they are calling abortion now? Elisabeth writes: Let me preface my post by saying that as the mother of a daughter I find female foetocide abhorrent to say the least. With respect to the doctors who were hailed off to jail for aborting the female foetus, I do not find this an acceptable solution. Our medical professionals cannot be held accountable for something that is primarily not illegal in India, which is abortion. Mario replies: The reason the doctors were arrested is that their complicity with abortions for gender selection was illegal, even in abortion-happy India. Elisabeth writes: Since I have been bestowed the credentials of left- wing intellectual, and in keeping with them, I am fundamentally not opposed to abortion. It is the undisputed right of the women or at the very least the parents. Mario replies: I was wondering when your left-wing intellectual ideology would get around to supporting abortion, which you say is an undisputed right. How can you then turn around and say you find only female foeticide abhorrent? Since you abhor only female foeticide as the mother of a daughter, does this ipso facto mean that male foeticide is OK with you? You have already said you support elective foeticide which is what abortion is. While I agree 100% that any woman and/or parent should have an undisputed right to decide whether they want children or not, once conception occurs, it gets far more complicated. I'm pretty sure the foetus they create would strenuously dispute whether it should be torn limb from limb and discarded like thrash. Elisabeth writes: Which brings us back to the Salwaar Kameez. We have to ask ourselves, what sort of society are we creating in India. Are we creating a society that values women, that treats them with dignity and respect? Or are we creating a society that perpetuates inequalities and demeans women at every point, or even more sadistically caricatures them into either Madonnas or whores. Mario wonders: Isn't it ironic that you are so concerned about what these girls are being required to wear to school, while supporting the undisputed abortion that would prevent some of them from even being in school? I would really like to know what reason was given by the admistrators for what seems to me on the surface a gratuitous, silly, even stupid, decision, while the world is going in the other direction. Wouldn't you like to take their explanation into account before deciding that they were deliberately intending to caricature Goan women or trying to change Goan civilization as we know it. Maybe their intention was simply to protect the virginal Goan girls from the lascivious gaze and drool of the rampant Goan boys of today, who congregate every evening, at least in Panjim, around the Gaspar Diaz circle for this very purpose:-)) I would also like to know what most parents of school age children in Goa think. And finally, what do the girls think, who were lucky enough to have escaped female foeticide. Maybe they like the new policy. Does anyone know what they think? I would request our dogged Goanet reporter on the ground in Goa, aka JoeGoaUK, to investigate and report back to us on this :-)) Elisabeth writes: Which explains my outrage at the Salwaar Kameez. Also I've never really looked good in one :)) Mario observes: An incisive and rational analysis of this comment would have to conclude that you think you look better when your assets are not hidden by a salwar-khameez, which was invented specifically to hide as much of a woman's assets as possible :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Further to the Da Vinci Code (Re bogus charges of imperialism)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Vidyadhar Gadgil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The dangers of such confusion are clear, to make an analogy, what if people the world over start blaming Christians in general and 'Christian religious authorities' for the imperialist agenda of George Bush, which is clearly motivated by his skewed interpretation of Christian fundamentalist doctrine? Question everything -- Karl Marx Mario responds: Vidhyadhar, You were doing fine until your deep seated Marxist sentiments got the better of you. Like your icon, Karl Marx, a REAL imperialist on behalf of communism, you also failed to question your own vicious and unsubstantiated accusation before gratuitously including it in a totally unrelated subject, though you recommend to us in every Goanet post that we question everything. As a Marxist on the losing side of history you probably dislike President Bush's policy of encouraging freedom and democracy around the world as a pre-requisite to a lasting world peace. God knows you Marxists tried REAL imperialism for decades until your philosophy imploded under failed economic policies that could not sustain your imperialist ambitions. As a Marxist you would obviously resent President Bush's open acknowledgment of his personal Christian faith. However, I defy you to find any public statement by him of using his faith to justify any US policy, or of being accused by any responsible American political opponent, of which he has many, that he has done so. All he has affirmed is that he prays for the strength to do what is right. That must grate like nails across a chalkboard to any committed Marxist. Perhaps, like Marxists worldwide, you also resent the liberation of Muslim populations from Muslim tyrants, and have the same contempt for the three successful elections in Iraq. Perhaps, like Marxists worldwide, you support a weak and feckless UN, that allowed 16 UN resolutions to be laughed at by Iraq, aided and abetted by Russia, China and France. Your accusation against President Bush of a renegade Christian imperialism is false on it's face. It shows an abysmal ignorance of his documented reluctance to engage in nation building, which led to squeals of protest worldwide in 2001 that the US was becoming isolationist. It was Osama Bin Laden that declared war on the US in 1998 at the height of Bill Clinton's appeasement-oriented administration which emboldened the Islamic terrorists you seem to sympathize with by failing to respond to a series of attacks against US interests throughout the 90's. Even after 9/11, President Bush first asked the UN to take the lead and waited for them to fail to do so before attacking the Taliban that was harboring Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. President Bush then asked the UN again to bring Saddam to heel for his failure to comply with 16 UN resolutions that required him to account for the destruction of his WMD's. It was only after Iraq failed to comply with UN resolution 1441 which threatened serious consequences, and France said they would oppose any UN led action to bring Saddam to account no matter what in the infamous words of Dominic de Villepin, that the US decided to form a coalition and liberate Iraq. You also seem to be unaware that it was Bill Clinton who asked for and signed the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998 based on Iraq's failure to account for it's WMD's and the fear that he would provide these to the enemies of the US who had declared war on the US. It would behoove you to know the facts of the 12-year run up to the liberation of Iraq and the US commitment, repeated just this month, to leave Iraq as soon as the Iraqi government asks it to do so. Also, if the US was interested in imperialism, why did it leave and go home in 1991, when it controlled virtually the entire middle-east after the first Gulf War, and why, in spite of being the world's only super-power, is there not a single US ruled territory anywhere in the world outside it's traditional territories? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: TRAFFIC SAFETY IN SCHOOL SYLLABUS
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Pull the other leg it has bells on it.You draw a fine distinction to take credit for yourself while ridiculing others. Not many are amused by your antics as the posts on Goanet indicate. Mario responds: Cornel, unlike you, I supplement any ridicule I use in very rare and extreme situations - for example all your recent posts, repeating over and over again your belief that 2 + 2 is only provisionally equal to 4 - with detailed explanations of my position. Here we again see that your response to my detailed and logical explanation is sadly lacking in any specifics, any facts, or any logic. Why are you so reluctant to be specific, when everything you say is provisional? :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus has been wrong for 200+ years
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Having said that, any serious economist has to be gravely concerned with India's population. Even the article link that someone provided on this forum had this to say: Mario responds: Elisabeth, A serious economist is one who observes and accepts reality, based on factual observations of how the world actually works, not plausible but failed theories that have been consistently wrong for over 200 years. Why you continue to defend the indefensible in the face of such a lengthy body of evidence is beyond me. As a true liberal, you may just love the feeling of being concerned, which enables you to know what's good for everyone else, better than they do :-)) For a liberal there's no fun in letting millions of people make micro decisions based on enlightened self interest. After all, what do THEY know. They're just ignorant peasants. Your liberal soul-mate, Cornel, describes anyone who agrees with you two as educated and those who don't as uneducated. But then, it's all provisional. In 1947 India had a population of somewhere around 350 million and was experiencing famines frequently. Today, with a population that exceeds 1 billion, India is a net exporter of food. If there is famine in India, as your source reports, it is being well hidden from everyone else. If India is still lagging, after the economic boom since they jettisoned socialism, it is because liberalization is not occurring fast enough. Elisabeth writes: It is true that you are either a Malthusian economist or you are not. For better or for worse. I am. The basic premise of Malthus' paper was never really wrong. Mario replies: How can you continue to believe in an economic theory that has never been right? For better or for worse is for married couples - even if your husband has been wrong for 200+ years :-)) If an economic theory has been wrong that long there is only one rational conclusion. It is wrong. You remind me of those in the US who insist that Kennedy, Reagan and Bush cut taxes, even though the tax receipts by the US Treasury increased sharply after all three so-called tax cuts. The reason is Kennedy, Reagan and Bush did not cut taxes, they cut income tax rates, which expanded the economy and resulted in an increase in actual taxes to the government. It's the difference between static and dynamic economic analyses. Economics is dynamic, not static. People respond to circumstances, do not just succumb to their environment. Malthus has been wrong for the same reason the tax cut hand wringers have been wrong. His pessimism was based on static analyses, the world is dynamic. This is why Malthus, while sounding plausible to liberals itching to get their hands on the economy, he has been wrong for over 200 years. Elisabeth writes: That resources are not infinite and that unchecked populations will be detrimental. Mario replies: Sounds plausible doesn't it? The problem is that the resources that we need change over time. If one gets scarce, it's price rises to the point where those same people who you would like to flush down the toilet through population control, the euphemism for abortion, come up with alternative resources. Elisabeth writes: India is poised to become the most populous country by the year 2015. Heaven help us all. Mario answers: Heaven will have helped us if this really comes to pass. That is the same population where the cure for cancer will come from, the cure for HIV/AIDS since you liberals object to keeping it zipped up [:-))] the next green revolution, the next energy source that will make petroleum obsolete, etc. etc. etc. Halleluia, I can't wait!!! What a great world. Join the optimists, Elisabeth. If for no other reason that we optimists will never let the pessimists succeed in putting or keeping us down:-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa History: Destruction of Temples/In defense of Marlon
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, I don't know how well you know Marlon but I've known Marlon Menezes for 7 years and counting, and yes he does support numerous causes, especially in Goa. While we constantly take liberties at belittling another people's points of view or arguments, please let us stop short of belittling other people's character, reputation and achievements. In all the years that I've know Marlon, he's never treated me with disrespect and that is as Christian as one gets. Mario responds: I'm glad to hear that Marlon treats YOU with respect, which you will have to agree is a pretty small sample, not to mention an apparent shared disbelief of religion and/or Christianity. I suggest you read his past posts more carefully to see why your sympathies may be misplaced. You may find your comments should have been better aimed at your friend, young Marlon, whom I studiously try to ignore, while he continues his relentless highly personalized abuse, until I notice something particularly egregious in the archives. I really don't need to know Marlon or how he treats one person or the causes he ostensibly supports. Good for him if he does. Are you suggesting that compensates for what he writes on Goanet? I made my point pretty clearly in http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-June/043880.html only to receive the now predictable generalities that ignore every specific point I have made. Am I supposed to be impressed? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Flexible code - the one atheist's use, or not use:-)).
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, as we can see, religion does not give us a rock solid moral code that has survived unchanged for thousands of years, as was erroneously stated in this forum. The post below and the religious texts themselves provide us with ample facts in support of this contention. These facts are as follows: 1. Many ancient practices described in religious texts have now been regarded as barbaric and immoral, and have therefore been abolished by all modern secular nations. Mario asks: It is patently absurd for unorganized individual atheists to judge the rock solid moral codes provided by most religions by those few renegades who failed to comply, while having a moral code that is built on sand. It is just as absurd for the atheists to paint all religions with the same brush if any one of them has done or does something that Santosh considers wrong. In the meantime unorganized individual atheists have a home-made moral code, if they have one at all, subject only to personal convenience, with no societal or exterior checks and balances other than the law. Santosh writes: 2. The sanitized and abridged example of a common moral code of two major world religions has been shown to have been conveniently revised to generate three versions. Mario replies: This is a patently false statement. The three versions of the Ten Commandments that Santosh is slyly speaking of here all cover the same precepts, and are just numbered differently. Santosh writes: 3. No rational moral basis has been provided for the first four commandments of one of the revised versions of this flexible code. Mario replies: This assertion is also false as the archives will show. Santosh writes: 4. The argument that this religious moral code is immoral because of the associated prescription of death penalty, including death by stoning, for its violation, has not been refuted. Mario replies: Another patently false statement. The abhorrent practices cited by Santosh have long since been abolished by those who may have engaged in them. If any religion still engages in a particular practice does not invalidate all religions and their rock solid moral codes, while leaving each unorganized individual atheist to their own convenient precepts, which may or not be any good. Santosh writes: 5. A new situational moral revision is presented, one that offers an unsubstantiated blanket denial of the existence of the penalty of death, in the face of explicit statements that can be seen even in modern revised versions of the ancient religious text in question. Mario replies: This is another false statement. Any current existence of a death penalty has everything to do with law and nothing to do with religion in most civilized cultures and countries. If one religion still supports a particular practice does not invalidate all religions and their rock solid moral codes, while leaving each unorganized individual atheist to their own convenient precepts, which may or not be any good. Santosh writes: 6. The convenient denial of the amply documented death penalty leaves one to wonder what sort of adverse consequence takes its place in the modern sanitized revision of this pliable religious moral code. For example, what personal or public consequence awaits thou if thou make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth? Mario responds: This is another false statement. Any current existence of a death penalty has everything to do with law and nothing to do with religion in most civilized cultures and countries. If one religion still supports a particular practice does not invalidate all religions and their rock solid moral codes, while leaving each unorganized individual atheist to their own convenient precepts, which may or not be any good. Those who belong to a religion that includes the specific precept mentioned above would face the consequences dictated by that religion. In the meantime what public or private consequences do all the unorganized individual atheists face for any moral transgressions for personal convenience as long as it stays within the law? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] The Dangers of certain topics (relating to censorship)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Francisco Colaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The editors of Goanet also must share the blame for allowing such unhealthy debates to go on and on in a repetitive and unending manner. Mario observes: Under the principles of free speech and an open world-wide forum, who gets to decide whether a debate is unhealthy or not or whether I decide to repeat facts and opinions in specific response to repeated assertions on the same topic often by a small army of like-minded members? No member is forced to read anything on Goanet and the name of the poster and the subject line should be their clue. I assume everyone has a delete button. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] The Dangers of certain topics (relating to Churches)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, my real worry is about the assertive stance of the Catholic Church to evangelise in India/Asia etc. I do not want this precisely for the reasons you have identified. This generates real fear in me because the approach is pretty provocative I think. Mario observes: Cornel, I thought you were the one who is receptive to all kinds of knowledge all of which you consider to be provisional. Now you are telling us that someone else in India or Asia being provided with knowledge about Christianity is provocative and somehow generates real fear in you. What is provocative about one being provided with information that one can choose to accept or deny, as long as this not done in an aggressive, coercive or personally intrusive way? Fear?! What are you fearful of? Are you trying to skew the debate with such verbal histrionics? I think what you really fear is that they will become Christians and accept the rock solid Christian moral code. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: The destruction of Hindu temples to build Churches- response to Mario
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Vivek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion and in the opinion of many historians there is no perhaps or maybe as far as atrocities on the local population including destruction of hindu temples is concerned.It is well documented by independent historians and the writings of people like Francis xavier too reflect that barbarity. Mario responds: Vivek, Any opinion needs to be backed up by supporting evidence. Please refer to the posts of Gilbert Lawrence on the subject of the evidence you so glibly cite, without presenting any, and debate that part with him if you choose to. Such details are his forte. Vivek writes: I also belive that such wanton acts of religious extremism in the past should not be used to justify and encourage more such acts in our present times. At the same times such incidents should not be brushed under the carpet under the pretense of maintaining communal harmony or by refering to other issues like sati manusmriti and aryan invasion or hindutva. Mario replies: I agree. However, we should not brush one part of ancient history under the carpet while obsessing on some other part. Mentioning that every conquering group did something does not absolve any of them. Mentioning one and objecting to any mention of others indicates some bias. Vivek writes: I belive it would be a good start for all of us if accept that what the portuguese and other colonial missionaries of bygone era incuding francis xavier did was an extreme example of religious bigotry and intolerance. Mario replies: I hope that you have noted that while I am a practicing Catholic who focuses on the precepts of the religion as opposed to the institution and the personalities that may have besmirched it over the years, I have called the Portuguese of the Inquisition period Christian-fascists. What more do you want from me? Vivek writes: I also do not agree with your assertion that criticising such acts by christian zealots in the past is in any way related to christianity bashing. Mario replies: Again, I agree with you in principle. However, why would we give any special credibility on this issue to those like Marlon who gleefully bash Christians and Christianity as a general part of their modus operandi, while denying they do so? If you don't believe me, click on the following URL and see what he thinks for yourself, in his own words: http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-April/041649.html _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Ban buying Property in Goa (?) Goa is Goan Future
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Stephen Fernandes wrote: Goa's attraction lies in the fact that comparatively, property in Goa is a steal. Even though prices in Goa have been rising for the past two years, they are still very reasonable in comparison to the metros. One can still buy property in Goa even at upmarket locations like Dona Paula and Miramar at around Rs. 25,000-30,000 per square meter. Prices in Porvorim, which is an emerging satellite city to Panjim, is even more affordable at Rs. 15,000 - 20,000 per square meter. For those who want to relocate and buy property in Margao and Mapusa, the prices are even more attractive at Rs. 14,000 - 15,000 per square meter and Rs. 12,000 to Rs. 13,000 per square meter in Mapusa. Compared to prime beach side locations in Mumbai and Chennai, which would cost you a whopping Rs. 2.5 lakhs per square meter, you can still get a sea facing flat in the North Goa beach belt comprising Calangute, Candolim, Baga for Rs. 30,000 per square meter and along the southern beach belt comprising Benaulim, Colva, Majorda for as little as Rs. 20,000 per square meter. Which means that property in Goa costs just a tenth of the prices in metros. It makes sense for professionals who have property in upmarket areas in the metro cities to retire to Goa. Mario adds: I'm wish Stephen had chosen a better Subject line for this post, but thanks to him for this otherwise excellent essay on the wisdom of buying property in Goa, complete with rational estimates of the values. From local Goans to Goans across India to diaspora Goans, all should take heed and seriously think of buying property in Goa, not only to keep as much of it as possible in Goan hands, but also because it is a fantastic long term investment. Please don't be hampered by what the prices used to be in your youth, or even what they were 5 years ago. Those day are long gone. Why would anyone in their right mind think of retiring in Mumbai, or New Delhi or Chennai, all approaching gridlock, when they can get so much more for their money in Goa, which is still relatively pristine but getting less so with every passing month? If you are lucky enough to still have ancestral property in Goa - mine was mostly lost through our own fault to shrewd relatives and mundkars - this is not the time to sell, unless you desperately need the money. You will get far more for it down the road, believe me. Your heirs will thank you. While banning non-Goans from buying property in Goa is just not going to happen, Goans buying property in Goa is the only possible way to keep GOA FOR GOANS, because not only the rest of India, but people around the world, have discovered Goa and are already buying like crazy whatever property they can. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] From CNN / Time Magazine: India's influence soars
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Goanet News Service wrote: India's influence soars The 'un-China' could be world's next economic superpower You may not be aware of it, living in the United States, but your world is increasingly being shaped by India. Mario responds: Where did this author, obviously uneducated according to Cornel as is apparently everyone who shares Chidambaram's optimism of India's progress, get this quaint idea about those living in the United States? Aux contraire, mon ami. Living in the United States as I have for 35 years I can confirm that every American today is made pleasantly aware of India every time they go to school, college, university, medical facility, many hotels, and certainly if they have anything to do with the computer industry. Many products found in stores also carry a Made in India label, but Americans are quite used to seeing stuff made all over the world. On Goanet the only pessimist of India's development and influence is our intrepid friend, Cornel, safely ensconced in the UK, but who cites educated people in India as his source, but, let's be fair, his knowledge is provisional and he has said that he will wait and see. I hope he doesn't wait as long as the followers of Malthus, who have been patiently waiting for HIS pessimism to be be proven right for some 300 hundred years now :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] The Dangers of certain topics (relating to Churches)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't mean to be Chicken Little here, but in a moment I will seem to be. I haven't followed the discussion about Catholic Churches being built atop Hindu temples in its entirety, just in bits and pieces. While I certainly don't want to advise anyone on what to discuss, I think in the political climate that we live in today. Christians have to show some responsibility in the assertions that they make. Mario adds: Elisabeth, Very well said indeed, with one small correction. It is not practicing Christians who are making the assertions but former Christians who are well known on Goanet for Christian-bashing. Mario. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: The destruction of Hindu temples to build Churches
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, as all knowledge is provisional, I am sure we will discover much more on this theme-- particularly from historians. Mario observes: Cornel, Bill Clinton would love you, man :-)) It all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is is the mantra that guides you both :-)) As the comical Oracle of relativism you have pronounced once again with utmost certitude ...as all knowledge is provisional. Is your certitude on this issue provisional as well? I'm waiting with bated breath to discover whether the provisional knowledge that 2 plus 2 equals 4 has changed due to additional research and reflection :-)) And please use some other object, not yourself, when you try to see whether the provisional principles of gravity have changed:-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Dubai Terrorism/response to Mario
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Elizabeth Re your post, unfortunately, Mario does not wish to understand what most of the world has to say about the disastrous American war in Iraq Mario responds: Cornel, As has become customary with most of those who disagree with me, I see that you, as a spokesman for most of the world have been reduced to attempted ridicule while unable to dispute a single specific fact among all that I detailed in response to Elisabeth: http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-June/043833.html You keep repeating left-wing propaganda ad nauseum and ignoring all the actual facts. You cite world opinion which Bush cares little about in his support for democracy, while you support about 20,000 murderous anti-freedom insurgents while callously ignoring the democratic desires of 25 million Iraqis. Your cynical and callous goal, along with the entire left-wing worldwide, is to blow smoke in our eyes with pious claims of being a humanist, while relentlessly supporting one of the most brutal and sadistic tyrants of our lifetime. Your every prevaricating word shows that you continue to hope against hope that the Americans will fail to liberate the Iraqis and provide them with the freedom and democracy that THREE successful and DEATH-DEFYING elections, have confirmed that they want beyond a shadow of any doubt. Cornel continues: At the latest count, 2500 young American soldiers have lost their lives, two are killed each day, 80,000 have been wounded and are treated badly on their return instead of as heroes as one might have expected. The Iraqi deaths which run into many many thousands are not even recorded by the American administration. Mario observes: Cornel, Your shameful crocodile tears will impress your fellow anti-freedom left-wingers, not any Iraqi, nor anyone involved in their liberation. First of all, the 2,500 Americans voluntarily and heroically gave their lives to give the Iraqis a chance at freedom and democracy. Compare their service and sacrifice whith you, who hides in a democratic country while supporting murderous anti-freedom terrorists targeting innocent civilians. Secondly, your claims that they are being treated shabbily is a blatant falsehood that is being spread by people like you who despise what they did and whose hatred for 25 million Iraqis runs so deep that their propaganda trumps their veracity. Regarding Iraqi deaths, they pale in comparison with what the Iraqis faced under Saddam. Perhaps the BBC has failed to inform you about Saddam's rape rooms, torture chambers and hundreds of Mass graves with hundreds of thousands of skeletons tossed in like thrash. In addition, these are martyrs to the freedom of Iraq, whereas their predecessors were simply killed by Saddam for opposing his own brutal and sadistic dictatorship. They had no hope. Iraq now does. Cornel says dismissively: I once said that if the whole world said that the sky was blue, Mario was capable of insisting it was red! Need I say more? Mario responds: Yes, you need to explain why you falsely claim to be a humanist while ignoring thefreely expressed desires of 25 million Iraqis. You need to explain why you are supporting the suicidal maniacs who are targeting and killing Iraqi civilians, for what? To try and deny them freedom and democracy. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa History: Destruction of Temples
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In your last post you claimed some historical facts. You did so with much confidence (to prove me wrong!). Obviously as a smart individual, you would not be making a fool of yourself. So, I can only blame the authors of the books and web pages that you read (as obviously you, like me, were not there in the 16th century). You make my point. And I have made this repeatedly! Some amateurs are writing these history books, web pages and expressing opinions not supported by facts. This false facts either make their biases; or their bias is the cause for the false facts. The other two reasons may be: plain ignorance, ani sodanchem kaneos muree. Mario adds: Gilbert, This reminds me of the history books we had in school written by British historians. Who can forget that the number of Brits cited in the books would never fit in the Black Hole of Calcutta without being piled three deep, or kaneos of 500 intrepid Brits defeating armies of thousands of Indians, etc. etc. etc. But let's not be too hasty in declaring young Marlon as being reluctant to make a fool of himself :-)) Based on his endless repetitions of deliberately false assertions about the opinions of others, hoping no one will notice or remember the facts, it is a toss up that he is even quoting his own sources accurately. The one thing we can be sure about based on extensive evidence in the archives is that his spin will be consistently anti-Christian on the grounds that he is really doing Christians a favor by exposing their insecurities. This is accompanied by the sophistry that he is really not anti-Christian because he supports freedom of religion and that he has contributed to Christian causes, which I'm sure he has the receipts and cancelled checks to prove:-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: TRAFFIC SAFETY IN SCHOOL SYLLABUS
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Pull the other leg it has bells on it.You draw a fine distinction to take credit for yourself while ridiculing others. Not many are amused by your antics as the posts on Goanet indicate. Mario responds: Cornel, unlike you, I supplement any ridicule I use in very rare and extreme situations - for example all your recent posts, repeating over and over again your belief that 2 + 2 is only provisionally equal to 4 - with detailed explanations of my position. Here we again see that your response to my detailed and logical explanation is sadly lacking in any specifics, any facts, or any logic. Why are you so reluctant to be specific, when everything you say is provisional? :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Government Apathy Traffic Discipline/Control
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- John Eric Gomes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to state the history of government apathy in Goa is frightenning, because it repeats itself with impunity! Mario observes: John, You have dissected the problem like a surgeon with a scalpel, or hit the nail on the head with devastating force, or whatever analogy is appropriate :-)) Career bureaucrats have a natural inclination to cover up their apathy and a vested interest in doing so. I commend you for bringing the authorities face to face with their bullshit with your strongly worded letter. Please continue to rub their noses in it relentlessly to make it more difficult for them to sink back into their customary apathy. In my mind you now join Chandrasekharan, Melinda and Valmiki as one of the day-to-day heroes who are actually addressing all this official apathy, which is an age old problem across the sub-continent. I don't see any other option but for people of goodwill, like yourselves, to continue trying, because the alternative is unacceptable in terms of each and every life that is now at risk. This reminds me of a letter that President Nixon, no stranger to adversity, wrote to his arch political adversary, Ted Kennedy, after his personal tragedy at Chappaquidick, You are not a loser when you fail, only when you quit. For what you face, quitting is not an option. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Sharing is fun... Goa photos in cyberspace
--- Frederick Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (broadband is just here, and unlimited use costs a fairly affordable Rs 900 p.m) kept me from getting swollen headed... so far. Mario responds: Now, now, Fred. Let's not get carried away :-)) Fred writes: The photo both were referring to is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/fn-goa/122926418/ But after seeing their comments, I'm beginning to get vain. Mario replies: Your pictures are excellent, so we'll allow you a little vanity. But, remember, like the sum of 2 + 2, this, too, is provisional, and we will not hesitate to puncture your vanity if conditions change :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Goa ... and Wikipedia
--- On Sun, June 11, Fred Noronha wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Goa ::: please see and contribute. -FN Mario adds: Fred, Are you aware of the following development at Wikipedia? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/17/technology/17wiki.html?_r=1ei=5094en=dfa87aba254ab5e7hp=ex=1150516800partner=homepagepagewanted=printoref=slogin Growing Wikipedia Revises Its 'Anyone Can Edit' Policy. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: The destruction of Hindu temples to build Churches
Vivek, Please do not selectively associate me in this issue. If you have followed this thread you would know that I have clearly said that this kind of atrocity was quite possible during Goa's Christian-fascist Inquisition period. If it did, it is another unfortunate historical atrocity, among many such atrocities. I have also said that such atrocities were not limited to Portuguese or Christians as we know from the Ayodhya experience. I cited a Hindu temple that was demolished in Lahore just this month and replaced by a temple of commerce. My comments have mostly to do with the attitudes and biased comments by certain well-known Christian-bashers on Goanet, who grew up Christian but who now never lose an opportunity to malign the religion and those of us who practice it. --- Vivek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been following the discussion between marlon, Gilber mario and others regarding the destruction of hindu temples by the Portuguese _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Destruction of Hindu temples and replaced by CatholicChurches
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario I definitely made no claim that I was in any way certain that Hindu temples were destroyed for Catholic churches to be built over them. To say I had read about this is not to make a claim. Are you experiencing some difficulty in comprehension? Mario replies: For an adult whose comprehension of the world is such that you can say with utmost conviction, ...one would even be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as true knowledge. I can see that one would be pressed very hard to say that anything is true, or not true. BTW, why did you ask in such detail on June 15, Do you accept or do not accept from whatever hard evidence you can garner, that Hindu temples were destroyed in Goa and that a number of Catholic churches, were built instead, on roughly the same sites where the temples were destroyed? This sure sounded as if you accepted what you were asking. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: Re: [Goanet] Goanet as a learning instrument
--- Mario Goveia wrote: Was it really necessary to mention Mossad and undercover agents when talking about a country that has continuously been in survival mode --- Valmiki Faleiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought yes. Not for the reason I think you adduce, but to underscore the inherent strenghts of a diaspora, such as ours. Mario asks: Valmiki, If I was wrong in adducing a hostility towards the Israelis, I apologize. However, here is my problem now that you have confirmed that you mentioned Mossad intentionally. I am still missing how Israel's elite intelligence agency has anything to do with the Israeli and Goan diasporas, especially when Goa is hardly facing a threat of being wiped off the map, as Israel is. It is that 60-year-old threat of elimination by a host of neighbors that makes Jews different and motivates them wherever they live, in the further context of the genocidal Holocaust that immediately preceded it. Valmiki writes: Thanks for bringing that out, Mario, can't figure out how I forgot that very important aspect of the Goanet admnis' job - yes, they do it for free, and I do share your appreciation of that fact. Mario adds: My suggestion to Goanet is that they should accept paid advertising and remunerate these administrators. Then I would not feel so bad for the exponential increase in their stress levels since I joined Goanet :-)) How does one whack someone who is doing such a thankless job for nothing :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: TRAFFIC SAFETY IN SCHOOL SYLLABUS
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very strange that Mario says that those not living in Goa just pontificate about the road situation in Goa. As I know that Mario lives outside Goa and indeed a long distance away, is he not pontificating as per his own criterion? Just puzzled really! Mario explains: Cornel, By now, all of Goanet is quite familiar with your chronic puzzlement. As one who is even puzzled by true knowledge in science, what can be safe from your puzzlement? Anyway, here's the difference. While living overseas, I do not pontificate about what local Goans ought to do, and I don't pretend to know what's good for them. I leave that to you liberals, who think they know what's good for everyone else, better than they do. By comparison, I note what local Goans, in this case Chandrasekharan, Valmiki and Melinda, have already decided to do, and then I support them. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Fwd: Re: re: immigration (2)
On Sat Jun 3 13:12:31 PDT 2006, Eugene Correia wrote: There's been a lot of debate over immigration -- local and foreign. As the US is in the midst of a crisis and Canada under the Conservative Stephen Harper is also turning into anti-minority, immigration is come under fire from the right-wing forces. --- Politico Rodrigues wrote: Mario thereby retorted by providing his opinion with respect to the issue of immigration as it applies to the U.S. As far as i can tell, a similar retort was not provided with respect to Canada. Mario adds: Politico, I apologize for that impression. I thought I had included a comment that Canada's new conservative administration also strongly supported LEGAL immigration, but opposed ILLEGAL immigration. Unfortunately, most of the major media in Canada as well as in the US is politically liberal, and will not miss an opportunity to misrepresent what a conservative administration does. Previously they were able to get away with this without rebuttal. Thank God we now have the growing alternative of the blogosphere and conservative talk radio to balance the scales somewhat. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Christian-bashing - by a pro-Christian???
I have configured my email program to recognize and dispose off endless and deliberate repetitions of serial misrepresentations that take far too much time to correct over and over again. Thus I only see young Marlon's posts when I visit the archives. In doing so I noticed that he has been getting away with more of the same, and no one else is wasting their time correcting him either. Here are some examples of why it is a waste of time to seriously debate anything with him. In http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-June/043760.html he says, And when did Mario become a friend of the catholics? Mario's vile comments comparing the Pope and the Vatican to the islamic terrorists, just because they opposed the Iraq war, leaves a lot to be desired! [end of excerpt] Other than being deliberately snide, this is a blatant misrepresentation which Marlon repeats at every opportunity, even though he knows exactly what I said and why I said it. These comments are also ironic coming from a vicious Christian basher like Marlon as we will see from other comments below. BTW, I defy Marlon to cite one shred of evidence that I have said anything against the religion of Catholicism, as opposed to some of the institutions and personalities that besmirch it. Anyone who reads Goanet would immediately recognize his first sentence above to be a calumny. I am not just a friend of the Catholics, Marlon, I am a practicing cafeteria Catholic myself. But I digress. What I said in answer to a question from Marlon about the Pope's peculiar opposition to the liberation of Iraq was that ANYONE who opposed the removal of Saddam Hussain, the most brutal and sadistic tyrant of our times, as the Pope and the Vatican did, was by my definition, an Islamo-fascist sympathiser, Saddam being the Islamo-fascist. I did not compare the Pope and the Vatican to Islamic terrorists. It turns out Marlon too is an Islamo-fascist sympathiser, but for financial reasons. He opposes the liberation of Iraq because he says it is costing too much. This is the accountants method of liberating a country. I wonder what Marlon has to say about WW-II. Is it even debatable that Saddam would still be sadistically brutalizing his people and threatening the security of his neighbors if President Bush had listened to the Pope or to Marlon? This is the same Pope mind you, who fought tooth and nail to bring down the old Soviet Union that was brutalizing Christians and Jews. Marlon, of course, only fights AGAINST Christians and Catholics and religious people in general. With the subsequent discovery of Saddam's rape rooms, torture chambers and hundreds of thousands of massacred Iraqi skeletons discarded in mass graves, and the manifest electoral preference of most Iraqis (other than about 20,000 insurgents) for freedom and democracy, the Pope and the Vatican and Marlon were even more wrong in hindsight than they were when they opposed the removal of the Saddam regime. They had all sadly stayed silent while the atrocities were in progress throughout the 80's and 90's. Marlon continues his spin, My questioning of christian beliefs does not equate to me being anti christian. All it does is that it exposes certain people's insecurities about their own religion. The record clearly shows that I have supported the rights of christians (and all religions for that matter) and have provided material support for Goan Catholic organizations.[end]. Yeah, right! In http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-April/041649.html, here is Marlon apparently exposing the insecurities of Christians, in his own words: Nasci was perhaps a little careless in not being more specific about the christian god he brays to. Christians too have many gods and depending upon which god you pray to, your mileage will obviously vary. To begin with, there is the holy trinity - the Father, son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit - kind of like the hindu trinity of Shiva/Vishnu/Brahma, except that the christians say that they are three gods some how squeezed into one. Like whatever! [end of excerpt] Believe it or not it gets worse. See for yourself by clicking on the URL. The nadir was the following passage(s) in which Marlon even ridiculed his own mother: Hmm... my mother did once pray over a cancer sufferer, who after many false hopes, still died (note to self: check if she prayed to Jesus or St. Peregrine). The list of saints and their specific specializations is endless. Nasci, I hope I am not being too nosey. Can you tell me which christian god(s) you pray to? Blessings from the christian god(s). [end of excerpt] This is the same Marlon who now says he should not be equated with being anti-christian. Yeah, right! Let's see him prove it with comparable comments viciously ridiculing other religions. Guess who has the REAL insecurities!!! I think Goanetters know me well enough to know that I am a persistent debater with those who engage in honest contrary debate, even
Re: [Goanet] Goanet as a learning instrument
--- Valmiki Faleiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me at least, Goanet has been one. Not just an instrument of learning, but more. I have rediscovered old friends and made new ones, sought and obtained assistance. Mario adds: I endorse the eloquently stated sentiment above. Valmiki writes: My only regret is that we often go overboard checking and countering one another, especially on futile issues (more often after one another rather than the issue!), like Goa's colonial past ... which I'm sure helps neither the contenders nor the Goanet readers by way of a thought-provoking debate -- nor, for that matter, Goa. Mario observes: Valmiki, Since this is an open world-wide forum which is dedicated to free speech (with some moderation), perhaps you should cut the members some slack in their choice of subject, commentary, response and counter-response. What may be thought-provoking for one member may be boring or irritating for another at any given time. No one forces us to read every post or follow every thread. While some prefer a narrow focus on Goa, others, who are just as Goan as anyone else but live elsewhere, may have other interests from time to time. Why should you care? Isn't that what free speech is all about? Valmiki writes: I look at Goanet's potential from the context of how, for example, Israel greatly benefits from its diaspora returning to their Promised Land (it's just a minor spinoff that the Mossad can, at will, place an undercover agent in any part of the world ... Mario asks: Was it really necessary to mention Mossad and undercover agents when talking about a country that has continuously been in survival mode for almost 60 years from most of it's neighbors, some of whom threaten to wipe it off the map on an almost weekly basis? Valmiki writes: The Goan diaspora bears an immense resource: of experience from around the world. A multiplicity of ideas that could the distilled for the greater good of Goa. Goanet is slowly bringing that diaspora on a common platform. Mario adds: Again, I agree and sense that this has already begun. Valmiki writes: One needs to be, significantly to the Principal Founder, who I know is your nephew by marriage ;-) I'm entirely with you that the admin team must sometimes feel they're into a thankless task. No Goanet reader in her or his right mind will fail to bear a deep, maybe unexpressed, sense of appreciation and gratitude to Herman Carneiro and the Fred-Bosco-Viviana team (I'm told there are four, but I don't know who the fouth admin is) -- for what they have done and are doing, every single day, 365. Mario adds: I would like to take this opportunity to add my personal appreciation and gratitude to that expressed quite eloquently by Valmiki above, not only to the shadowy Herman for his foresight as the Founder (I'm glad to hear the relationship is only by marriage:-))), but also a special VIVA to Viviana, Bosco and Fred (I'm not aware of a fourth) all of whose stress levels increased exponentially after I discovered Goanet :-)) Thanks for a job well done - most of the time :-)) Thanks especially for the time you take, and your caring, to do such a stressful job voluntarily. Notwithstanding our growing list of vociferous pseudo-humanists, and real atheists/agnostics, God Bless you all! _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] India gobbling the world
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, I was most surprised in one instance, about ten days ago, that India was not placed in the same league as China by a commentator who had placed them both on an equal footing only some two months earlier. Mario responds: On the other hand, I was not at all surprised IN SEVERAL INSTANCES over several months to see SEVERAL commentators place India above China in the longer term, mainly because of the greater freedoms in India and the growing relationship with the United States which will do it's utmost to help India to not be overshadowed by China. The rest is up to India. Cornel writes: I hope you are right in this instance and that I am wrong. I do want India to make it big in my lifetime--in what's left of it. I'm sure you also wish India well in your life-time too. Mario responds: It is you who is the cynical pessimist. There is no doubt about where I stand. For me India made it big and set the stage for the great things most of us uneducated people are seeing already - but apparently not your educated friends - when Manmohan Singh was able to shed the destructive socialism of the Nehru legacy and begin the process of liberalization which is India's euphemism for shedding socialism. The only things slowing India down right now are a) the bureaucratic remnants of 50 years of the old destructive system, b) the presence of Communists in the coalition, c) the lagging infrastructure, and d) the lack of civic sense and consideration for others among many in the citizenry. These will all improve with time and the acceleration of economic progress. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Mario's science and true nowledge
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why I emphasised the importance of getting behind commonsense and the need to debunk it as good thinkers and scientists have done historically. I was genuinly hoping for a good discussion with you when I asked for examples of what you meant by true knowledge. I was very intrigued by such a term and more than politely asked you about it. Indeed I was keen to learn something new. Unfortunately, all I got was a put-down. Mario replies: When people whimper and claim that they have been put down, in order to gain sympathy in a discussion, my response is, If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, then you have nothing to worry about. What kind of intelligent discussion can anyone have with someone who says It would be helpful to figure out what you mean by 'true knowledge.' That concept was largely rejected when religious knowledge was questioned with the rise of modernity. Further, one would even be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as 'true knowledge'. as you did in: http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-June/043615.html Let me repeat the last part in case anyone missed it, Further, one would even be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as 'true knowledge.' If you continue your comical, even embarrassing, opinion that ...one would be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as 'true knowledge'. even after giving you several rudimentary examples, then those of us who exist in the real world will have to leave you to discuss the real number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin with your scientific friend Gabe, who has apparently attended remedial Thursday science classes :-)) BTW, let us know how many angels you come up with :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Boiling temperature of water
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mario Yes it does. Water boils at different temperatures related to the altitude. This is something pretty basic in science. Mario replies: I'm glad I was finally able to convince you that there is such a thing as true knowledge in science after you said in a prior post, ...one would even be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as 'true knowledge'. BTW, it is not the altitude that is the critical factor in the boiling point but the pressure. Other things being equal, pressure changes with altitude, but there are other ways of varying the pressure at the same altitude. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] India in the News ... again
I hope some of the naysayers who obsess only on India's problems will pay attention to this acknowledgement of what the people who actually put their money on the line think of India and it's progress since extreme socialism was jettisoned . --- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My son-in-law (ex-Bombayite and ex-Manipal engineering graduate) is a past graduate of Harvard Business School (HBS), Boston. As such he is a member of their alumni and I get to see the HBS Alumni bulletin. In the June '06 issue of the magazine the cover is blazoned with INDIA GOES GLOBAL with title of the lead article India Arrives. Those interested about India's growth and current economic strategies and challenges should read the article. It may be available on the Internet. The article has extensive quotes of the CEOs and Chair-men and -women of major companies in India. Many of them are MBAs and most are HBS graduates. Great way for HBS alumni to link and network - that's the whole reason of the alumni bulletin. Regards, GL _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] ROAD SAFETY SYLLABUS
--- N Chandrasekharan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mario, I am very happy to see your suggestions and you have nailed the need of the hour. I believe that problems approached with a clear vision like that of yours and with determination should take us towards the goal. However, you will agree that to do all these things, we have to make a beginning! Are you with me in this? Mario replies: I am absolutely with you on this. I wish I lived in Goa and could personally help you shake things up rather than just offer moral support. People like you, Melinda and Valmiki, who ACT and GET THINGS DONE while others just TALK and wring their hands in despair are the real heroes of the day and I commend all of you for your service, persistence and positive attitude in the face of overwhelming odds. If your program saves even one life it will be worthwhile, and I believe it will save many, many lives, especially if it can change the mindset of generations to come from carelessness to awareness. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must disagree with Mario's observation of my ability. I have no claim to any fame (intellectual) except I once was falsely accused of being good-looking at the Anjuna night flea market. Later I found out the person was visually-challenged and the darkness may have had something to do with it. Also some adulterated feni. Mario apologises: George, based on your personal testimony, please accept my sincere apologies for mistaking you for an intellectual :-)) I should have figured that out on my own from your commentary, and vow to be more astute in future :-)) Regarding your homely looks, I will leave that up to the homosexuals from Portugal and Angola whose activities you recently outlined for us, or any others that may be lurking on Goanet :-)) George writes: As to left-wing/right-wing that is for birds and airplanes. Mario replies: I was really referring to the political wings, but it is quite customary these days for political left-wingers to try and cover-up that fact. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Dubai Terrorism/response to Mario
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, Sometimes you make me laugh and laugh and laugh. I laugh so hard, I just roll off my couch. Believe me there are more weapons of mass destruction, hidden by my little daughter, underneath my couch than there are in Iraq. Mario responds: Elisabeth, You made my day. I finally gave you some serious factual information that did not make you ashamed :-)) First of all, if your daughter's WMD's are still under your couch your whole house must smell like sulphur dioxide. I would have thought that all her chemical and biological WMD's were in her diapers and disposed of by now, just as, according to you and Ralph Rau, Saddam disposed off his WMD's :-)) However, having done that, he was somehow unable to show the UN that he had, accepted crippling economic sanctions as a result and finally lost his cushy dictatorship and ability to continue to sadistically brutalize his people. After all those years of raping, torturing and summarily executing hundreds of thousands of political dissenters in order to maintain his dictatorships, all wasted. All those conscientious disposals of his WMD's, according to you and Ralph Rau, all wasted. Saddam lost his dictatorship, according to you and Ralph Rau, after apparently doing what the world demanded for 12 years that he do. Because he was unable to show them that he had done so!! What an imbecile. Isn't it amazing that the entire UN was passing resolution after resolution from 1991 to 2003, 17 in all, and yet some people believe that it is only George Bush, who only became President in 2001, who believed that Saddam had WMD's? Isn't it amazing that Bill Clinton proposed and signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 on the belief that Saddam had WMD's and would provide them to America's enemies, and yet some people believe that it is only George Bush, who only became President in 2001, believed that Saddam had WMD's? On an intellectual level, though, I am a little disappointed that you again resorted to the same kind of generalities that I am noticing recently from people who disagree with me. In my post I gave a detailed and logical explanation about Iraq's missing WMD's. You were obviously unable to rebutt a single fact or opinion that I mentioned, apparently believing that ridicule would be an adequate cover-up for a lack of fact and logic. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Dubai Terrorism/response to Mario
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, Sometimes you make me laugh and laugh and laugh. I laugh so hard, I just roll off my couch. Believe me there are more weapons of mass destruction, hidden by my little daughter, underneath my couch than there are in Iraq. Mario responds: Elisabeth, You made my day. I finally gave you some serious factual information that did not make you ashamed :-)) First of all, if your daughter's WMD's are still under your couch your whole house must smell like sulphur dioxide. I would have thought that all her chemical and biological WMD's were in her diapers and disposed of by now, just as, according to you and Ralph Rau, Saddam disposed off his WMD's :-)) However, having done that, he was somehow unable to show the UN that he had, accepted crippling economic sanctions as a result and finally lost his cushy dictatorship and ability to continue to sadistically brutalize his people. After all those years of raping, torturing and summarily executing hundreds of thousands of political dissenters in order to maintain his dictatorships, all wasted. All those conscientious disposals of his WMD's, according to you and Ralph Rau, all wasted. Saddam lost his dictatorship, according to you and Ralph Rau, after apparently doing what the world demanded for 12 years that he do. Because he was unable to show them that he had done so!! What an imbecile. Isn't it amazing that the entire UN was passing resolution after resolution from 1991 to 2003, 17 in all, and yet some people believe that it is only George Bush, who only became President in 2001, who believed that Saddam had WMD's? Isn't it amazing that Bill Clinton proposed and signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 on the belief that Saddam had WMD's and would provide them to America's enemies, and yet some people believe that it is only George Bush, who only became President in 2001, believed that Saddam had WMD's? On an intellectual level, though, I am a little disappointed that you again resorted to the same kind of generalities that I am noticing recently from people who disagree with me. In my post I gave a detailed and logical explanation about Iraq's missing WMD's. You were obviously unable to rebutt a single fact or opinion that I mentioned, apparently believing that ridicule would be an adequate cover-up for a lack of fact and logic. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: India gobbling the world - Malthus be gone!
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: I am sure as, Dr Khushwant Singh and Chidambaram, revel in the headway that India is making, their foremost wish is Malthus be gone. Unfortunately, the spectre of Maltus will follow both India and China well into the next century. --- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those further interested in Malthus (Elisabeth's reference above), see link and excerpt below http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/malthus.htm Mario observes: It isn't often that I have the opportunity to respond to two worthy left-wing intelletuals at the same time on Goanet, both of whom seem to find the ideas of Malthus to be as compelling as I find them to be pessimistic and misguided. My advice to Khuswant Singh and Dr. Chidambaram is to press on with their plans without worrying too much about Malthus. After all, he has been wrong for 300 years, so what are the probabilities that he will be vindicated in future? As one example from George's post above, Malthus's hypothesis implied that actual population always has a tendency to push above the food supply. Based on this India and China should have been facing mass starvation by now. However, because people don't sit still in the face of problems but develop solutions, both countries are self-sufficient in their food supplies, and are even exporting food. Here is an URL from a major university that rebutts the pessimistic theories of Malthus: http://william-king.www.drexel.edu/top/prin/txt/gro/gro6.html Some excerpts: It appears, in retrospect, that Malthus was wrong. Over the past 200 years, the population has grown in most countries and worldwide, but (again in most countries) people by and large have not gotten worse off, but better off, in material terms. Food is more plentiful, and many other kinds of goods and services are available that were not available 200 years ago. The reason is that technical progress in the production of food and in other fields has not been rare and accidental, but rather more or less continuous and cumulative. And this improvement in technology has outrun population growth, leaving more and more people better off. Looked at in detail, technical progress over this period has not been so continuous or regular. Before Malthus, about 1700, Britain had experienced an agricultural revolution, a major surge of technical progress in agriculture. In the nineteenth century, however, agricultural productivity seems to have remained relatively stagnant, while manufacturing and transportation surged ahead. But cheap manufactures made it possible to outfit more farmers more cheaply, and the improvements of transportation made is possible to bring food from further away, as new agricultural land was settled. Once again, in the twentieth century, agricultural productivity surged into the lead with large, continuing increases in agricultural productivity, together with some growth in manufacturing productivity. From the Malthusian viewpoint, this looks like a series of lucky accidents, and a Malthusian might say that there is no scientific reason to believe that the luck can continue -- that such a belief is no more than an act of faith. But from the anti-Malthusian viewpoint, things look quite different. An anti-Malthusian might ask how long a trend has to continue before it stops being a lucky accident and starts to be a general rule. If three hundred years is not long enough, how long? And how many times must the Malthusians be wrong before they realize that their ideas are flawed? (end of excerpt) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
On 12/06/06, Mario Goveia wrote: Then take a steel cube and multiply the length by the breadth by the height to get the volume. Then using the water displacement method see if this comes out any different. Boil water the same way wherever you are again and again and see if the boiling temperature changes. --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Surely to arrive at your conclusion it would have to be the inner base x height? Mario asks: What is the inner base of a steel cube? Gabe writes: Water does not boil at the same temperature wherever you are!! Mario needs Thursday classroom! Mario replies: I used to teach the teachers of Thursday classrooms :-)) I said three things, ...the same way wherever you are again and again. This means the experiment is to be conducted wherever you are. I am well aware that changing how you boil water, open or closed, and changing the altitude of your location changes the boiling temperature. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Talking Photos: All about GOA bridges ferryboats
Thanks, Joe. Great pictures. How about some of old Portuguese era churches. --- JoeGoaUk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Talking Photos: All about GOA bridges ferryboats _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Talibanisation of Goa. /response to Mario
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, I really do think you are suffering from a rare form of PDD, known as PDD by Proxy. Not only do you feel the need to defend your point of view ad infinitum but you feel the obsessive need to either defend or take umbrage at someone else's point of view or emotional state of being, be it shame or disappointment, and then label it as you would like it to be. Mario responds: Elisabeth, Please pardon me for excercising my freedom of speech and defending my point of view in a public forum, in my apparently mistaken belief that that is what a public forum is all about, without someone putting a pseudo-psychological spin on my motives. Who is to say that any PPD I may have is any worse than the PMS that others may have?:-)) I don't know about ad infinitum either, since I am a relatively new member of Goanet. I have never understood expressions of general discomfort with how, when and why I express opinions rather than specific rebuttals of specific opinions. I can debate specific differences of opinion, or agree to disagree. I am pretty immune to generalized insults, sarcasm and ridicule. Like water on a duck's back. I learn nothing from those. Regarding how I label any tendency I observe, others are just as free to agree or disagree. For example, you may have noticed recent references labeling my rightist diatribes without a single specific example from my rather detailed and frequent diatribes. Another label I am not responsible for is Talibanisation which I consider rank hyperbole designed to gain an unfair debating advantage and out of all proportion with the problem. I must confess that I have remarked on the relatively new tendency of some to be ashamed at the drop of a hat, of things they have no involvement in. Can't an issue be addressed and discussed without such emotional histrionics that may seek to subtly influence the debate and put anyone who disagrees on the defensive? Elisabeth writes: To put hyperbole in context, according to you and Gilbert, the Association of Goan Atheists and Agnostics, are frequently seen running the streets naked, burning kastis and culminating in an orgy to rival Dionysus. It's another matter that none of us have ever be fortunate enough to witness such an event. Mario observes: You must not attend many of the meetings of the Association of Goan Atheists and Agnostics. I'm told their nakedness cannot be shown in public though :-)) The only opinion I remember advancing on atheists, in response to a barrage of overt attacks on religion by Kevin and Marlon, and covert attacks by you and Cornel, can be summed up in the differential societal checks and balances that exist or not exist, while agreeing that on the margin individuals from both camps can have rock solid moral codes. However, if you are looking for a more specific statement of moral equivalence, we may have to agree to disagree. Elisabeth writes: In anycase, I shall take your point under advisement and write to the PTA, to stop robbing our young girls of their self-worth and reinstate a Britney Spears version of the good ole school uniform. Mario observes: I'm not sure if they have formal PTA's in Goa. If they do, I'm not sure if it is these PTAs that were responsible for the decision on female school uniforms. I clearly recall characterising the decision as misguided, stupid or prudish. You are so concerned about my suggestion that it may be counterproductive to be ashamed and terrified you seem to have missed what I said. However, if you are willing to go to Goa and lead a morcha against the policy, I will gladly endorse your position with a barrage of e-mails :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Traffic Safety In School Syllabus /Melinda Coutinho Powell
--- Melinda Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, The Government is considering Road Safety as part of the syllabus in schools and colleges.Wonderful.But by the time this becomes a reality, several more youth would have lost their lives.I cant help being skeptical ,we need action not talk.Soon this will be a forgotten topic unless we all write/email the Director of Transport and the Traffic Police ,that education in road safety is a priority. At the monthly consumers Traffic meeting at Margao Police Station, this month the topic of RSP(Road Safety Patrol) in schools came up. There were various excuses from the Traffic Police - they need to impart training to school students.The only way to get things done is by being persistent ,so we shall bring up the topic again and again ,till we get some action. Mario responds: Melinda, I don't blame you for being skeptical, since you are dealing face-to-face with some of the very people who contribute to the problem, but please don't give up. You are heroically tackling an age old problem rooted in a tradition of official carelessness and a woeful lack of civic sense among average citizens, so every baby step has huge positive implications for the long term. This development shows that the efforts of people like you, Valmiki and Chandrasekharan are beginning to bear fruit. Good job. Remember Mother Theresa's answer when a reporter asked her how she does not get overwhelmed by the problems she faces every day. She said that if she obsessed about the whole problem she would get nothing done. She said she focuses on each person in front of her and tries to make a difference in that person's life at that point in time, before going on to the next. That way, she has made some headway by the end of each day. Please send us the name, title and email address of anyone you want us to contact. I am confident that all of Goanet, local and diaspora, will support you on this, since it is our fellow Goans whose lives are at stake here, if not our own and that of our families when we are visiting Goa. Let's send an avalanche of emails to the Director of Transport and the Traffic Police. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Destruction of Hindu temples and replaced by Catholic Churches
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you accept or do not accept from whatever hard evidence you can garner, that Hindu temples were destroyed in Goa and that a number of Catholic churches, were built instead, on roughly the same sites where the temples were destroyed? Mario replies: Based on the rumors I have heard, almost every conquering force did such things in the past, not just Christian-fascists like the Portuguese of the heinous Inquisition era. However, I have not tried to garner any such evidence, do not have access to any such evidence, and really do not care whether it happened or not. It is up to those like yourself who make such wild inflammatory claims to support their claims with relevent evidence when challenged. I did not make any claim one way or the other. However, I did provide evidence that it has happened in Lahore just recently, when a Hindu temple was demolished and replaced by a temple of commerce. Cornel writes: This may possibly be a religious matter for you but I definitely do not need a sermon. Just give me the shortest, and most succinct answer you can manage please. Mario replies: Was the sermao above succinct enough for you?:-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: Portugal... or Angola?
--- George Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fortunately, Goan reporter Pedro was on the scene to capture the magic of this moment. He reported that one Angolan player was so overwhelmed by the colonizer-colonized camaraderie, in the ecstasy of the moment he invited a Portuguese player to come over and sleep with his wife. When the Portuguese player came over, he realized the Angolan player did not have a wife so he slept with him. Pedro also reported another Portuguese player invited an Angolan player to come over and marry his daughter. When the Angolan player came over he realized the Portuguese player had no daughter, so he married his adult son. This was such a happy ending to colonization for everyone except the homophobic Lusophobes. The World Cup is not simply about football, it is about colonization, history, sexuality, and much more. Btw, the Angolan player chose to marry the adult (rich) son. It is about money too. So now you know the truth. Mario observes: But it's The truth according to 'Pedro', which may not be exactly the same thing as the truth :-)) Did Pedro really mean homophobic Lusophobes??? Anyway, with this ecstatic obsession with homosexual sleeping around between Lusos and Angolans, can Pedro be aptly described as a homophilic Lusophile??? :-)) Will the real Pedro please stand up...that is, if he can tear himself away from watching the liaisons between all those homosexual Lusos and Angolans. Being a Goan reporter like Pedro must be a tough life:-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: The destruction of Hindu temples to build Catholicchurches in their places.
--- Aurelius Figueredo wrote: Well it's also quite well known the during the early crusades in Europe, a lot of pagan temples were destroyed and churches raised in their place. The reasons were varied of which this thread doesn't get into but it did happen. Mario replies: Many things that are well known are based on rumors and don't have the slightest evidence. Auri writes: In fact as Marlon stated, in some old churches eastern Europe, tourists have actually traced the outlines of the pagan temple within the church. Mario replies: Since when did Marlon, who doesn't lose an opportunity to bash Christians, Catholics and religion, become an expert on this subject? Auri writes: As far as what the thought process would be to desecrate a church by building over a pagan temple? The raising of a blessed cross by a priest and the first mass would sanctify the land and drive away all evils. Mario replies: And how about when pagan temples were built on the ruins of Christian churches, mosques were built on the ruins of Hindu temples, and Hindu temples built on the ruins of mosques? What cross was involved in these cases? Wherever this kind of thing did happen it was the ultimate symbol of religious supremacy, hatred and intolerance. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: *** Goa wants expats to leave (Pushpa Iyengar in DNA)
--- Dacosta Amilcar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being of Goan origin, I felt ashamed to read the article by some Pushpa Iyengar on Goa wants expats to leave. Mario responds: Dear Amilcar, Please calm down. No need to waste your energy being ashamed. Why are you ashamed after reading an article that does not even make sense? Save your shame for when you have actually done something wrong yourself. In the meantime please be either irritated, irate, upset, angry, mad-as-hell, or some equivalent that fits your thinking more closely. Then maybe you will be motivated to let the author know what you think, and she will be more careful the next time. When I read Pushpa's article I was PO'd, and I let her know it. But I think she is hiding under her desk because I haven't heard from her. Ms. Iyengar apparently thinks it is good to write inflammatory articles - an old journalistic technique among opinion writers that gets people to notice them. This one made no sense on it's face because she was complaining about foreigners on TOURIST visas being unable to buy property in Goa. Why would anyone on a TOURIST visa want to buy property, when they will be going home shortly? Joe something-or-other, who goes as JoeGoaUK on Goanet because he wants to hide his identity from the rest of us, has reported that there are several foreigners who own property in Goa, he said 49 just in Bardez. Obviously those foreigners had the proper visa that enabled them to do so. Joe's research proved Pushpa was wrong. I am generally uncomfortable when someone hides their identity - there is this one guy who hides in the Canadian cyber-bushes and snipes at people using one of several identities, and no one knows who he really is. However, I have learned that this particular Joe is a serious guy and is particularly interested in real estate in Goa. So I am inclined to believe him even though I would prefer to know who he is. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: I am assuming that you are using the second example to prove that the first assumption is incorrect. Hence, proving once in for all that science is not to be trusted Mario replies: Elisabeth, Actually, I did not use any assumptions. Both the principles of flight and of gravity are absolutely correct and predictable, hence proving that science, properly applied, can be absolutely trusted. Let me give you some more simple tests that should convince you that science can be trusted. Go to the top of a building and jump off. Science predicts with absolute certainty that you will fall to the ground. See for yourself whether you can trust this prediction or not :-)) Then add 2 plus 2. I predict with absolute certainty that the answer will be 4. Try this again and again and see if the answer comes out different. Then take a steel cube and multiply the length by the breadth by the height to get the volume. Then using the water displacement method see if this comes out any different. Boil water the same way wherever you are again and again and see if the boiling temperature changes. Elisabeth writes: This is the same type of rationalisation that Conservatives use to prove that evolution is a myth. Mario responds: Based on my examples above, we see that science is not rationalisation, so you have lost your connection with conservatism :-)) Rationalization is what the modern political ultra-liberal secular humanists and atheists use. You are probably incorrectly confusing conservatives with the religious nuts who believe that the Bible was written by Jesus, in modern English :-)) I am a conservative and I do not believe that evolution is a myth, but there are still missing links in the Darwinian theory, and no one has been able to prove what existed before the Big Bang. Elisabeth writes: Monkey's bottom red, man's bottom not red. Hence man could not have evolved from monkey. Mario responds: This sounds more like the kind of logic used by modern political liberals who know what's best for everyone else, better than they do:-)) For example, one man is rich, other man is poor, hence the rich man must have exploited the poor man. Another example, Goan's and Goan businesses are hiring non-Goans to get their work done, hence the Goan Kunbis and Gaudis are being exploited and Goa is importing poverty. Yet another, global warming MAY be taking place, hence the western industrial countries must be to blame, while exempting India and China. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] India gobbling the world
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Ah! So there are impediments in India's way to imminent super economic status. This is what I kept saying and you were so dismissive. Have you woken up? Mario replies: No, but you seem to be in dreamland. Why do you embarrass yourself like this? Don't you know that Goanet has archives because of which you can obfuscate all you like, but your past assertions can also be exposed? The impediments I spoke of are to India's super-power status, not super economic status. I referred to the impediments as mainly social, like a lack of civic sense and a lack of respect for others. I also said that the infrastructure was lagging. I have previously argued that aggressivly addressing the infrastructure would create an additional economic boom to that already taking place in India.. About India's economic achievements I said India's rapid economic growth can be plainly seen by anyone open to the facts. On the other hand, what you kept saying was that India's economic progress was a myth, the expectations in India of super-economic-status were premature, that the educated people that only you seem to find when you visit India were sceptical about Chidambaram's vision of India's economic achievements, and that only the uneducated people in India believe in Chidambaram's vision of super economic status. Here it is in your own words in http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/042091.html, Re the often said view of India making huge economic progress to super-power status, I can't help feeling, following a recent visit, that this is a myth at present. In http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/042157.html you said, ...there is much, including statistical evidence of grinding poverty among millions, severe undernourishment of 57 million children, lack of quality control etc which makes the hoped for economic super-power status a bit premature... In http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/042224.html you said, I very much hope that Finance Minister P Chidambaram is right about India's economic progress. Many educated people I recently met in India were rather sceptical about his convictions. However, the lesser/least educated seemed to take him at his word. In http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/042298.html you said, Clearly, you are not able to tell that there is a big difference between my stated scepticism about the imminence, repeat, imminence, of Indian economic advancement to super-economic status and your choice of terminology about my relentless cynicism about the outcomes of Indian economic advancement ...etc. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Thanks for your two examples. I would use different terminology for both examples. Rather than say it is true knowledge I would say that within a balance of probability, the first object would stay up as long as fuel is supplied. It could definitely not be a certainty. Mario responds: Your persistent attempts at relativity are becoming comical. Not to mention embarrassing. The only reason a plane would come down, other than at the desire of the pilot, would be due to a mishap, not due to any probability that the principles of flight, which represent true scientific knowledge, decided not to work. Cornel writes: In the second case, there is a very high degree of probability that one who jumps off a tall building would fall to the ground and die. As in both cases there is a balance of probability involved, I would find it difficult to consider this as true knowledge. True knowledge must mean something is absolute i.e it would always happen. People have survived falling from tall buildings! Mario observes: Another comical attempt at relativity. In this case accompanied by a failed attempt at sophistry. While there is a theoretical probability that a person who falls off a TALL building may not die as a result of their fall, what do you think the probability is that they would not fall to the ground if they jump off even a SMALL building? Cornel continues doggedly: Do you fancy trying again? Mario answers: Sure. I could go on for weeks if not longer, but I will have to bill you for all this knowledge that your schooling seems to have missed :-)) How about the true knowledge that 2 plus 2 equals 4? What is the probability that the total is anything other than 4? How about the area of a circle? Always pi multiplied by the square of the radius. This discussion really shows that you need to go back and repeat all that schooling, which now seems all for nought :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Talibanisation of Goa.
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: What is going on in Goa? Are we taking 10 steps backwards in every direction? I am not only ashamed, I am actually terrified for Goa. Mario muses: Preetam Elisabeth, With all due respect, while I agree that this new dress code is silly and intrusive in the increasing global social climate, I still don't get this new sentiment of being ashamed at the drop of a hat - of something one has nothing to do with. I think that real shame is best reserved for personal transgressions, and sentiments like regret, dejection, bemusement, indignation and anger for those of others. And now, actually terrified - why? Because some silly, overbearing bureaucrat is taking himself or herself too seriously in suggesting a salwar-khameez dress code for school girls? And how about the extreme hyperbole in the Subject line - Talibanisation? Has everyone forgotten what the Taliban are all about - sadism, misogyny and extreme brutality based on a warped interpretation of their religion? Is Preetam seriously suggesting that the dress code is ...now threathening the very social fabric of the native Goans... Is the social fabric of native Goans so fragile? Private schools around the world have all kinds of dress codes without any claim by anyone that they are sabotaging the social fabric. Misguided, stupid or prudish are the worst adjectives I could come up with for this action. At most, this is just one step backwards, and should be easily reversed with some strident parental protestations. Maybe I'm missing something. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] RE: 'GOTCHA !!!!' (2)
--- Francis Rodrigues wrote: Mario's gems: Francis, I'm sure Dr. Kaza Moyo's skills would be far more usefully employed in your search for eternal youth...! Dr. Moyo, Welcome. Your surname is one I have not heard before...! Having grown up an Indian, and now a US citizen of...! ...blah, blah, blah!:-) Hey Mario, GOTCHA My work here is done ! Mario responds: GOTCHA ??? As your gems show, you got nothing, not even the eternal youth and mental mastery you were searching for. The only work we have seen from you here are rants based on falsehoods and reports of incredible searches for eternal youth and mental mastery from obscure Hawaian medicine men, whose own mental mastery hasn't done them much good, even in the islands :-)) You really need to go see Dr. Kaza Moyo :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Re: Dubai Terrorism
--- ralph rau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario seems to be very sure that Dubai is funding terrorist organisations. He probably has access to reliable sources. One hopes these are not the same sources that Bush depended on for information about Iraqi WMD. Mario responds: Ralph, I rechecked my sources and found that I was wrong in my previous assertion that Dubai was actively funding terrorist organizations. However, other than that, you don't seem to know much about what is really going on. It was the Bush administration that proposed and strongly supported the Dubai Ports deal because they believe that Dubai is a reliable ally in the war on terrorism. It was opposed by many in Congress because of a) suspicion that the UAE, of which Dubai is a part, was one of the locations that Al Qaeda financial transactions were being channeled through, b) the fact that two of the 9/11 terrorists were from the UAE, and c) Because Dubai does not recognize Israel, whose survival is guaranteed by the US. Are you aware that in the US, the Congress, as an institution, is co-equal in Constitutional power with the President and the Judiciary? Regarding Iraq's WMD's, your knowledge is also very poor. Were you aware that in 1998, way before Bush became President, Bill Clinton proposed and signed The Iraq Liberation Act, based on Iraq's WMDs and the concern that Saddam would provide these to US enemies? Are you aware that the intelligence services of the entire civilized world believed that Iraq had WMD's? The evidence lies in the 17 UN resolutions since 1991, demanding an accounting of these WMD's, which Iraq had admitted having in 1991. The last one in early 2003, No. 1441, was passed unanimously, and contained an ultimatum of serious consequences if Saddam did not comply. BTW, when these series of UN resolutions started in 1991, George W. Bush was not even Governor of Texas. That Iraq was unable to comply with these UN resolutions after being given over a decade to do so, in spite of crippling economic sanctions and finally an ultimatum, proves that they did have the WMD's. You apparently believe the illogic that because the WMD's were not found, Iraq had none. The more plausible explanation is simply that they are still hidden either in Iraq or Syria. Stocks of chemical and biological WMD's do not require much space. The logic behind this version is that, had Iraq really not had WMD's, Saddam would have been able to comply with any one of the 17 UN resolutions, the last one containing an ultimatum of serious consequences by force. By showing UN inspectors he had no WMD's he could have maintained his cushy dictatorship and continued sadistically brutalizing his people and building even more palaces. He had already tortured, raped, and massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people in order to maintain his dictatorship, so how does it make sense that he would then risk losing it all by not disclosing that he did not have something that he did not have? Regarding errors and omissions in Forbes Magazine, I suggest you refer any you find to the Editors of that magazine. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] The destruction of Hindu temples to build Catholicchurches in their places.
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario As often, you seem to miss the point being made. I asked if, because Gilbert had not personally found the evidence about Hindu temples, he was happy to accept that there was no such destruction? Mario responds: It would help if you avoided wild claims about arrogant displacement without having any credible evidence, which you have admitted you do not have, and then resort to absurd rhetorical questions when challenged. It is entirely possible that this may have happened during Goa's deplorable Christian-fascist period, a.k.a. the Inquisition. However, it may also not have. A temple may have been demolished without a church being built in it's place. Regardless of how you may want to spin it now, here is what you actually said to Gilbert, However, my understanding is that in Goa, some Hindu temples were demolished and Catholic churches were built in their place in a spirit of arrogant displacement. Have I got this entirely wrong according to you? Are you saying that it is not acceptable to say that Catholic churches were built following Portuguese destruction of Hindu temples as you have not found firm historical evidence for such a claim? I regret I do not have the hard evidence which would be appropriate as I have been busy doing other things! Of course it is not acceptable to make such inflammatory claims of extreme religious intolerance without credible historical evidence. Cornel writes: I have come across material in texts and I am sure Gilbert must as well that, there were Hindu temples destroyed for the construction of Catholic churches in Goa. However, I have not done such research myself and do not know how hard is the evidence that I encountered. I hope you have now understood something quite simple that I was saying. Mario responds: It's not quite that simple when making such an inflammatory allegation, especially when it comes from someone I believe is hostile to religion while trying to hide that fact. The kind of evidence that is relevent here does not necessarily mean that you have to go and personally dig under a Church to see whether there was a Hindu temple there. Hard evidence includes credible findings by reputable archeologists and historians and reports or writings by credible people who may have personally witnessed such atrocities or interviewed someone who had. An equivalent of The DaVinci Code would not qualify. So, it depends entirely on what texts you have been reading. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: *** Goa wants expats to leave (Pushpa Iyengar in DNA)
Fred, I strongly suggest you change the Subject line to match the contents of your post. Mario. --- Frederick Noronha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not do it in Free Software? Please see http://feeds.goa-india.org and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ilug-goa to get a feel of what's happening across Asia, India and Goa on te Free Software front. FN On 04/06/06, Walter J. Pais wrote: Dear Goanet Friends, I have just started a new website to teach Microsoft Access free. Please inform your group members about this website: http://in.geocities.com/emesbaize Walter Pais. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario It would be helpful to figure out what you mean by true knowledge. That concept was largely rejected when religious knowledge was questioned with the rise of modernity. Further, one would even be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as true knowledge. Have you missed the boat along the way on this kind of discussion? Mario replies: No, but I think it is you who has missed the boat and has fallen into the water:-)) Let's see if I can give you an example of true knowledge that even you, who is so highly schooled that everything is relative, will be able to understand. How about the true scientific knowledge that a properly designed object if moving above a certain speed, can be made to rise up off the ground and stay up as long as it has enough fuel to maintain it's speed? Or, how about the true scientific knowledge that if one jumps off a tall building, one will fall to the ground and die? Those who would ... be pressed very hard to refer to anything in science as true knowledge. should try it sometime :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: Re: Re: Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Valmiki Faleiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was not participating on the debate on that thread, dear Mario, was just curious about the import of an observation made by Cornel. Mario replies: Nevertheless, dear Valmiki, you took the time and effort to broadcast to the whole forum that you frequently disagreed with my rightest diatribes. This is a very general and critical comment that tells us nothing specific about what you are talking about, or if you even know what you are talking about :-) It suggests that you may be a die-hard leftist :-)) This is why I always ask critics to be specific about what I have said that they disagree with, and provide alternative facts and opinions of their own, so that we can have an intelligent dialog. It also gives me an opportunity to put what I have said in context, if necessary, or to clarify misunderstandings. The next time you see a rightest diatribe, please let me know. Or you may find something recent and relevent in my extensive section in the Goanet archives. I don't think you or anyone else should have any trouble figuring out exactly what I think, even though I have to sometimes repeat things for some of our highly schooled members for whom nothing is rock solid and everything is relative :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. Books, articles and internet forums are good ways to document what individual unorganized theists and atheists believe. Mario responds: The comments above refer to what the individual unorganized atheists CLAIM to believe. If they make an exception due to convenience, there would be no personal or public consequences unless they break some law. Mario wrote: The claim above that moral teachings in religious texts are now regarded as immoral is a specious allegation, hardly well known, and is probably considered a fact only by committed atheists. Santosh writes: False. Some examples of religious moral teachings that are now regarded as immoral, and that are well- known facts are: 1. Sati 2. Casteism 3. Prohibition of widow remarriage 4. Killing of homosexuals 5. Prohibiting women from wearing mens clothing 6. Stoning of disobedient children 7. Cutting down and casting in fire those who bear bad fruit 8. Forcing disbelievers to drink boiling water, and burning them 9. Letting idolaters kill their children Mario observes: I see now that Santosh is trying to use some ancient, barbaric, clearly immoral practices, long since abolished, in his specious attempts to indict all religion. None of his references include tenets of the rock solid moral code based on the Golden Rule and The Ten Commandments. Santosh writes: The above wish (that Santosh document what is immoral about the Golden Rule and Ten Commandments are immoral) is quite strange since nobody has stated that I possess such selective documentation. Mario responds: What is really strange is how Santosh speciously indicts all religions based on a few barbaric practices long since abolished, as when he said on June 3, It has also been shown that no religion, ideology or atheistic belief system has ever had a rock-solid moral compass. To say that no religion has ever had a rock solid moral compass is clearly false. Santosh writes: But since the ten commandments have been selectively highlighted by Goveia, I wonder if he can explain the moral value of the first four commandments, and clarify why death by stoning is an appropriate moral punishment for violation of some of them as recommended in the relevant religious texts. Mario writes: The moral value of the first three or four commandments (see explanation below) sets the foundation of a religion based on a belief that there is one true God as far as Jews and Christians are concerned, who must be accepted and respected above all else. What is immoral about that? Death by stoning is not part of the any moral code that is based on the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments. By the way, I must clarify the confusion that I added to with references to the Seven Suggestions and the Six Suggestions, etc. There are basically three different versions of the Ten Commandments. The Catholic version is as follows, which gives us THREE religious codes and SEVEN moral codes: 1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain 3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day. 4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother 5. Thou shalt not kill. 6. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 7. Thou shalt not steal. 8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife. 10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods. There are other versions that cover the same things but are listed differently. In those versions we have FOUR religious codes and SIX moral codes. For a detailed discussion of these click on: http://biblia.com/jesusbible/deut3.htm#The%20List _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goan Taliban?/response to Mario
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, I am glad to hear that you have never felt ashamed. I on the other hand frequently feel ashamed about many things in life. For instance I am ashamed I inherited my father's mustache and have to spend a lot of money on tending to it every month. Mario responds: My suggestion is to try and find and appreciate what's in the glass in front of you and not what is missing. One is not responsible for all that is going on in the world. Re. your moustache, that's nothing to be worried about. I inherited one too. Nothing that a sharp razor cannot fix :-)) Elisabeth writes: Thank God, there were many people in S.Africa that felt ashamed of apartheid. Thank God there were many people in America who in the 1960s felt ashamed that civil rights were being denied to blacks. Being ashamed, on balance is a good thing because it forces you to take action. Mario responds: What makes you think those problem solvers were ashamed? After all, they were not the ones engaged in the reprehensible behavior. I prefer to think they recognized a problem and worked to fix it. Isn't it likely that shame may prevent needed action especially if it is based on a self-esteem problem? The ones who should be ashamed are those who see a problem and allow it to continue and/or keep quiet about it. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: Re: Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Valmiki Faleiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, Cornel, I didn't mean to evoke an apology from you. I thought you had good reason to imply Mario was not insightful, from the way you said. Mario's posts do stir thinking, though I do not agree with most of his rightist diatribes. But he does come off as a well-meaning person. (And with this unsolicited expression of regret, you, as a noble mind.) Mario observes: Rather than such a general comment as seen above, which tells us NOTHING, wouldn't it make more intellectual sense to specify exactly what rightist diatribe one is referring to, and some rebuttal of the rightest diatribe to enlighten all of us? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Mario's mantra about a rock solid code
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario Your rhetoric below is too garbled to waste time trying to make sense of it. Mario replies: Then, let me ungarble it for you :-)) On the one hand you claim to respect religious people, Catholics, Christians, whatever. On the other hand you patronize and ridicule them as uneducated simpletons and mindless sheep. On the one hand you claim to be a secular humanist. On the other hand you have been singularly callous to the previous and future fate of 25 million Iraqis and 7 million Israelis. These are classic examples of what I facetiously describe as the individual unorganized atheist/agnostic 'what can I get away with today' moral code. Got it now? Cornel writes: You do not seem to have been schooled into ways of any systematic ways of thinking as yet--but this should come if you try harder. This is also the first time I have surmised, even if indirectly, that you are a committed Catholic. I do of course, have absolutely no quarrel with the vast majority of good Catholics. Mario replies: Here you go again with the snide reference to schooling, even though your own vaunted schooling seems questionable at best. Let me give you a tip. People who are properly schooled never have to refer to either their, or anyone else's, schooling. They just stick to the facts and form opinions or rebutt the opinions of others without such gratuitous references. I have already shown above that what you say is often contradicted by what you say. Cornel writes: Minimally, for you to believe strongly that you have a rock solid moral code, you need to be reminded of one of Nat King Cole's beautiful songs in which he says introspectively that, Gibraltar, the Rockies...will crumble some day-- they're only made of clay. Mario observes: How can someone rebut the rock solid Christian Golden Rule and Ten Commandments, which have stood for millenia, by quoting a song by Nat King Cole that was actually suggesting that the Rockies and Gibraltar would never crumble and neither would his love. BTW, neither the Rockies nor Gibraltar are made of clay. So much for schooling, or using balladeers as expert references. Cornel writes: Of course, you must believe that your rock solid code is more than rock solid and here to stay because you say so. Do dream on--we could even put a tune to this Mario mantra! Cornel PS. Could you please provide at least one specific and unambiguous illustration of your rock solid moral code? I am just intrigued that there is such a thing that you refer to with such great intensity. The very late, very religious, Zarqawi (spelling?) apparently had the same kind of delusions. Mario replies: Cornel, I would appreciate it if you would read Goanet posts before continuing to embarrass yourself like this. The rock solid Christian moral codes I have referred to now, SEVERAL TIMES OVER JUST THE LAST WEEK, are the very succinct and pithy Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments. Perhaps you have heard of them. The last time I checked, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, whose actions you have tacitly supported by opposing the liberation of Iraq, was NOT following ANYTHING in the rock solid moral codes I have cited above. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa importing poverty
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The issue is how does society prevent the abuse of a good thing? And how do we (society or govt.) address important issues rather that create short- term and short-sighted solutions to more fundamental problems. Mario observes: Before we get to the government or private busybodies, the fundamental issue is who gets to decide what is a good thing for everyone else? For example, in the free world, in Scandinavia and France it is mostly the national government, in the US it is mostly the people through their state and local governments, with other countries somewhere in between. Gilbert writes: Here are some thoughts: 1. Should Social Security for Seniors relieve the children from being primarily responsible for the well-being of their parents? It should not. But yet is does all too often. This includes the Senior Citizens not wanting to be dependent on their children. Mario observes: Who gets to decide for everyone else whether Senior Citizens should be financially independent or dependent on their children? Social Security in the US was instituted by political liberals and even they did not originally intend it to be the sole source of income for retired Seniors. Social Security in the US has evolved into a pure welfare program supposedly funded by it's own with-holding tax. In fact it is literally a giant Ponzi scheme, not a genuine retirement program that would be managed like a pension plan. If it were most working Americans would retire rich. If a private corporation had a retirement plan designed like the Social Security system for it's employees the government would lock up the CEO and throw away the key. Gilbert writes: 2. The issue of Dubai Ports Deal was a security issue. Yet security is the responsibility of the Govt. / Coast Guard and not of a private company - American or foreign. The intellectual issue here is: Why are there no American companies competing for the tender to manage and operate the ports? Mario replies: While the government is responsible for security the US government routinely hires private companies, including foreign ones, to perform various functions, including security. Did you know that there are several major ports in California that are managed by Chinese companies, including the port security? The political issue with Dubai Ports was that, while Dubai is an ally of the US the government of Dubai also provides some funds to terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. Gilbert writes: 3. The illegal immigration discussion is also miss-directed. Why are the world economists (who were in favor of WTO and NAFTA) not stepping forward to come up with innovative plans to create jobs in Mexico to keep the indigenous workforce in their native land? It is my understanding that the major cause for sharply rising unemployment in Mexico is the undermining of their agriculture with import of cheap corn and other agricultural products. It is like the USA on manufactured products! Its good if it is cheap, but bad if it creates unemployment. Unfortunately neither the academics nor the major and multi-national corporations have stepped to the plate to develop innovative solutions to these worldwide problems. Mario replies: The economic mess in Mexico is primarily the responsibility of the Mexican government. Academics, who have no personal stake, and multi-national corporations, whose primary loyalty is to their stockholders, are not the ones best suited to provide innovative solutions for any country, though they may contribute ideas to the people's elected representatives. Mexico has immense natural resources like a moderate climate, large oil reserves, fertile agricultural lands, a canyon five times bigger than the Grand Canyon and two large semi-tropical coastlines ideal for tourism. Yet, due to misguided economic policies, lawlessness and monumental corruption it has been mired in poverty. Gilbert writes: 4. In economic terms, is not human labor and talent (including brain power) to some extent a resource - and thus an exportable / renewable commodity? So in a free trade system, why / how would one restrict human movement across boundaries be it in Goa or USA, EU, Canada or Australia? Population migration is a NATURAL PHENOMENON and has occurred since the time Man first migrated out of Africa 100,000 years ago. Mario replies: As we have discussed, free trade systems are never theoretically pure in absolute terms in the modern world due to political realities and national sovereignties, and more recently, national security, especially when it comes to human movement across national borders. The world was a far different place when Man first migrated out of Africa! Official guest worker programs are the next best thing to humans just traipsing across national borders to and from wherever they are needed.
Re: [Goanet] RE.: Angry Man Go Whistle !
Francis, I'm sure Dr. Kaza Moyo's skills would be far more usefully employed in your search for eternal youth and mental mastery from obscure Hawaian medicine men whose credibility has not even spread beyond their own environment, than in anything I have said or done :-)) Not to mention your proven gullibility and persistence in exposing your limitations in public. Your equally peculiar comments below may make sense to you, but are no substitute for facts and opinions on issues of our day expressed coherently in a public forum. Sadly, you are left only with your Aunty Ponty impersonations in your valiant attempt at being a humorist on Goanet, and seem totally out of your depth when you divert your attention from that effort. --- Francis Rodrigues wrote: Mario, Appeasement? I think you need to go whistle :-) The Indian saying ...a mind closed like a steel-trap encased in a wooden head reminds one of all the whistles the 'cabal' has given you, and you refuse to blow ! To wit: _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] India gobbling the world
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Gilbert, As you know, I have felt some scepticism about India's rapid growth to super economic status in the imminent future but I dearly hope it is true and that we will not be disappointed. Mario observes: India's rapid economic growth can be plainly seen by anyone open to the facts. What is lagging in India march towards super-power status is corresponding growth in the transportation and communications infrastructure, and most sadly in the area of civic sense, due to a perplexing lack of civic respect for rules and regulations and for others, particularly strangers. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Goan Taliban?
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This admonition is totally uncalled for on a public Goan forum. Elisabeth eloquently states what many of us only have the courage to think (ie. those of us who do THINK). Mario observes: Kevin, Another one of your classic atheist/agnostic pretenses. THINKING by itself is no substitute for COMMON SENSE and the combined WISDOM of the ages :-)) However, I, too, disagree that the admonition. Opinions need to be debated, not abolished. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Woman priest says Mass
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not a practising Catholic but I do respect those who sincerely believe in their Catholic faith. Mario observes: Shown below is an example of the utmost respect that Cornel has for Catholics who sincerely believe in their Catholic faith, whom he refers to below as simpletons, in this case commenting on the rock solid Christian moral compass embodied in the Golden Rule and the equally rock solid Ten Commandments, Mario's rock solid moral compass is based on a simpleton's religious oriented commonsense. And again, Higher education is basically about debunking commonsense... Regular Goanetters would know that Cornel thinks of himself as highly educated and frequently refers to those whom he disagrees with as uneducated. We have no explanation as to why higher education would not be neutral in it's search for the truth, and basically also reinforce common sense instead of just be basically about debunking it. The rock solid Christian and other religious moral codes are under furious attack by humanists/atheists like Cornel and Santosh, who has gone as far as to say, That many moral teachings in religious texts are now regarded as immoral is a well-known fact. A rock solid moral compass cannot have such gaping immoral holes in it. The gaping immoral hole is only a well known fact to Santosh based on his specious and cynical concoction that ...many moral teachings in religious texts are now regarded as immoral... In the meantime, there is no explanation from these or any other atheist as to what is not rock solid about the Christian Golden Rule and Ten Commandments. These are the same people who claim that individual unorganized atheists and agnostics must be believed when they say that they have a rock solid moral code, when we have only their own word for it and no checks and balances or consquences other than the law. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] ROAD TO SAFETY
--- N Chandrasekharan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HELLO, This is to remind on the ROAD TO SAFETY ( ROAD SAFETY) Even to-day I saw an accident at Miramar near the Campal Inn. Accidents are more due to negligence on the part of the two wheelers. Are we aware of this evil? This is as bad as Davinci Code. Why there is no response to this? Are we really not interested in protecting the lives? Are we determined to have bloodbath? PROTECT THE GOAN BLOOD and then GOA. Mario observes: Chandra, keep blowing this horn. What have I been saying all along? No one seems to care enough to DO anything, even though Valmiki and Melinda are trying their best to wake people up to the tragedy. BTW, is the negligence on the part of the two-wheelers, or the two-wheeler drivers? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Hi Goanetters !
--- Kaza Moyo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Goanetters ! Just to say how much I enjoy this forum ! I'm originally from Goa, but practised for quite a while in the UK. I notice quite a few old friends colleagues here. Hi Jose, hello Gilbert, viva Santosh ! I've been away on holiday for a while at the Aguada, but am back now - feel free to drop me a line anytime or post any Goacentric psychiatric query online ! Mario writes: Dr. Moyo, Welcome. Your surname is one I have not heard before as coming from Goa, but one lives and learns. Having grown up an Indian, and now a US citizen of Goan ancestry, I will leave any Goacentric psychiatric queries to others, but, as a wild guess, some of our friends may qualify for some Portuguese-centric counseling, not having gotten over, after 45 long years, the demise of Portugal's prized Overseas Province :-)) You should see the endless weeping and gnashing of teeth about how Goa was invaded by those dastardly Indians in 1961, and is being messed up by a booming economy and the chaos and trauma of Goans having to deal with all those nasty Indians streaming in to buy property and do work that Goans will not do for the same price. Oh, for the good old days! GOA FOR GOANS!! is one recent King-Canute-like rallying cry. I have tried to tell them that the Portuguese - whom I love and admire for being affectionate and truly racially neutral people - are not coming back, and they should get on with their lives, but do you think they will listen to me? Perhaps you may have more luck in getting them to calm down with a trenchant essay on the subject :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goan Taliban?
Elisabeth, Welcome back :-)) I guess you can take the Goan out of Goa, but you cannot take Goa out of the Goan :-)) Now about that white picket fence...hurts me to even think about it :-)) Mario --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Francis, Thank you for the advice. I maybe ashamed to be Goan on account of the Da Vinci Code debacle but I am still a Goan and there are still Goans in Goa and in diaspora, that make me proud to call myself a Goan. No doubt, the Da Vinci episode will soon be forgotten but something very precious will have been lost. Our reputation as being progressive, tolerant and democratic. Elisabeth _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Morality does not need the compass of religion to guide it. It is inherent. Frazer in the Golden Bough, wonderfully details how societies living in isolation of each other invariably reach the same conclusion. Pyramids for example are to be found from Central America (Aztec and Mayan) to the Middle East (Egypt), without there being any trade link between these civilisations. Mario observes: Elisabeth, you are once again confusing what an organized society, even an isolated one, may cooperatively believe and impose on it's members, with individual unorganized atheists, for whom morality is what they claim it to be, and the only consequence is the law. I have repeatedly said that their personal moral code may be as good as any mainstream religion's. Or it may not be. In his staunch promotion of Godlessness, Santosh has correctly pointed out that Buddhists and Jains are technically atheists, but have high moral standards. I agree with that. Elisabeth writes: Whether this inherent morality is to be defined as God's invisible hand guiding us or whether it is just the evolutionary progression of man's intelligence is a matter of debate. Mario observes: The matter of group wisdom accumulated over millenia, voluntary acceptance of a code through membership, and the corresponding social consequences are what distinguishes a group's moral code from that of an individual unorganized person, deciding for himself or herself what to believe and when to vary. Elisabeth writes: But certainly whether one is a theist or an atheist, we have long past the point where we need a codified book to provide us with checks and balances. Mario asks: How would you even know what an individual unorganized atheist needs in terms of an acceptable moral code in comparison with a recognized mainstream religion? BTW, are you still sitting atop that pointy white picket fence?:-)) Doesn't it hurt?:-)) I thought you may have jumped off when no one was looking, since we recently caught you being ashamed of being a Catholic, which suggests public acceptance of a pretty rock solid moral code - no matter how often Santosh tries to patronize and obfuscate it. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most people know that mere assertions can never trump documented facts. That many moral teachings in religious texts are now regarded as immoral is a well-known fact. A rock solid moral compass cannot have such gaping immoral holes in it. Mario asks: Is there any way to document what an individual unorganized atheist REALLY believes? The claim above that moral teachings in religious texts are now regarded as immoral is a specious allegation, hardly well known, and is probably considered a fact only by committed atheists. I would like to see Santosh's documentation on what is immoral about the Christian Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goan Taliban?
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Today, I hang my head in shame as we have proved to the rest of India that we are as intolerant as the RSS and that we are as capable of stoking religious sentiment for political gain as the BJP. I am truly ashamed of being a Goan. I am ashamed of belonging to that last bastion of the Congress stronghold known as Salcette, Goa and most of all I am ashamed of being known as a Catholic. Mario replies: Oh, c'mon, Elisabeth, are you really a Catholic, those silly, highly organised, institutionalised, monopolised and politicised simpletons who are like sheep and have an imaginary friend who controls them called a shepherd :-)) Unless ... did you jump off that white picket fence while we weren't looking? :-)) Mea maxima culpa in advance if I'm wrong :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Angry man unleashed / Fishy Tale !
--- Francis Rodrigues wrote: Sweetness and light itself ! Methinks the sailor doth protest too much - all this repetition - doesn't it sound kinda fishy?! Mario replies: Fishy??? Deconstructed with your own words fishy??? I don't think so. More like fisher with a fish on the hook. But, nice try anyway. BTW, didn't the sage Hawaian Kahuna's tell you that repetition is for emphasis? :-)) Thank God for the Goanet archives. You can dodge but you can't hide. Besides, what do I have to protest about? I have the facts and the logic on my side, not to mention both feet on the ground :-)) Careful now, bilious behavior has a way of wearing out that patina of eternal youth :-)) You need to be spry now you also have to worry about home grown jihadis who were not too impressed by all that servile appeasement going on up there :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Theist v/s atheist?
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: I love reading all the theist v/s atheists posts on this forum. I like sitting on white picket fences. Mario observes: I'm glad you are sitting on a white picket fence, which can only bruise your posterior, instead of being in the middle of the road, where you could end up as flattened road-kill :-)) As someone who has participated in this topic from time to time, I have never asserted any suggestion that anyone was generally better than anyone else. The issue is one of standards, who sets these, who monitors these and commits to abide by these. What I have asserted, as an example, is that my imaginary friend and all his followers with the collected wisdom of thousands of years have developed a rock-solid moral compass - regardless of Santosh's baseless assertions to the contrary - and collectively ensure a certain level of checks and balances on our morality. Membership in such a morally based group, which is voluntary, means one has signed on to the program, and is willing to abide by the rules, to the best of one's ability. On the other hand the unorganized individual atheist, with no moral friend real or imaginary, and no membership in any morally based group, has only a biased, self-serving moral compass, assuming he or she has a moral compass, and the results are whatever they say they are, with only civil and criminal law as a controlling consequence. Where there is overlap, the unorganized individuals will be just as good as most members of the morally based group. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: An angry man, unleashed
--- Francis Rodrigues wrote: I'm sorry my intellectual superiority and physical presence bother you. Perhaps you should seek consolation elsewhere. Mario replies: Francis, You can't be serious. We have seen no intellectual superiority that you need to apologize for, though there are a lot of gratuitous attacks on others going on that you may want to reconsider:-)) While your physical presence really needs to be made known, not to me, but to the other Goanetters you hold long-standing grudges against who cannot even remember who you are, your delusions of intellectual superiority were initially displayed in this post, made under the name of Gary Rodrigues, http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-March/040689.html Here we see you/Gary in a rambling, bitter, sarcastic and mean-spirited rant based on a falsehood that no mental master would be gullible and naive enough to believe. When you/Gary were called to account in this post: http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-March/040837.html, you were unable to respond. Allow me to give you common sense tip. A mental master gets his facts straight before deciding to attack an unknown person. That way he doesn't need to be embarrassed when his facts are challenged. Let's not forget the search for eternal youth and mental mastery from obscure Hawaian medicine men and spoon-bending illusionists, which, I'm sure, have bemused everyone on Goanet. If there is anyone who needs consolation it is you, Francis, who insists on continuing to remind us of your words and actions. I advised you to stick to your Aunty Ponty impersonation, but you insist on continuing to embarrass yourself and assert the incredible. I am just bemused by it all, especially your bursting on the scene back in April with an intrusive post childishly attacking someone you know nothing about, and, more recently, your gratuitous and patronizing references to Kevin and Alfred and your general bitterness towards the world around you that deprived you of eternal youth :-)) Time to grow up, man. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Tomorrow is 666
--- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To those who are superstitious and belive in the End-Times, the number 666 is ominous. Tomorrow is that date on the calendar. Kind Regards, GL Mario responds: End-times? Bite your tongue, Gilbert! I have plans for next weekend :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Past BBC programmes on Goa
--- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know Portugal has not offically recognized Goa's liberation. Portugal only restored diplomatic relations which were cut off after 1961. Mario implores: Eugene, What does Portugal officially recognizing Goa's liberation mean 45 years later? Does anyone care in either India or Portugal? Are there some brown Portuguese still dreaming of Portugal coming back to claim their Overseas Province? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Woman priest says Mass
From: Marlon Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] The answer to the Mario's question is pretty simple: It is called a welfare state. If in case Gilbert and Mario are not aware, secular, democratic rule has superseded the closed, theocratic institutions they talk so highly about. If anything one could argue that the reach and cradle to grave scope of the secular welfare state has become overly excessive. Mario observes: Marlon, If the secular welfare state has become so excessive, then why are there still so many Christian social service agencies all over the place, and nary an atheist social service agency to be found anywhere? Marlon writes: As for a consistent moral compass that religion apparently provides, one has to wonder which religion or even brand of Christianity they are referring to. I do agree that Christianity has been so successful - there are so many versions of them, covering the gamut from rationalizing slavery and apartheid to the selfless charity of Mother Theresa. Christian? Yes. Consistent? Hmm. Mario observes: a) The consistency of the religious moral compass is not determined by those who divert from it, but by the 99% who do not. b) Throughout history slavery has been an economic phenomenon, not a racial one, and thankfully it has been abolished with rare exceptions in, of all places, Africa. c) Apartheit was a diabolical system of white supremacy that was condemned by the vast majority of Christians, just like Nazism by allegedly Christian Germans and Fascism by allegedly Christian Italians, was as well. All these were eventually defeated with significant assistance from Christians. Mostly Christian forces also liberated Muslim Kosovo from renegade Christian Serbs, were first on the scene after the catastrophic tsunami in mostly Muslim Indonesia, and have liberated 50 million oppressed Muslim populations in Afghanistan and Iraq from Muslim tyrants. Marlon writes: The dichotomy of views and lack of consistency is also apparent in the beliefs of these two individuals. Mario for example stated that the late Pope John Paul aligned the Catholic Church with the Islamic fundamentalists by opposing the US led attack on Iraq. Mario responds: With billions of Christians worldwide ,to pick as a dichotomy of views and a lack of consistency something that two of us have said on Goanet is twisting the reality all out of proportion. Gilbert and I were not even talking about the same issues. By comparison, imagine the dichotomy of views and lack of consistency that must take place among all the unorganized individual atheists out there. Just for the record, what I had said, in answer to a specific rhetorical question from Marlon, was that, in my never humble opinion, anyone who provided moral support to Islamo-fascists could be described as an Islamo-fascist sympathiser. In that sense Pope JP-II as well as the Vatican, did strenuously oppose the regime change in Iraq, the most brutal and sadistic Islamo-fascist regime in recent history, and, to that extent, provided immense moral support to that regime and it's remnants who are targeting and killing innocent civilians in order to do what? To deprive 25 million Muslims of freedom and democracy. Pope JP-II also stands publicly accused by me of being far more concerned about forgiving the pedophile priests than in addressing and alleviating the devastating and lifelong psychological scarring of their victims, and of unnecessarily elevating John Cardinal Law to an important position within the Vatican system, after he had resigned in disgrace for, unintentionally perhaps, enabling the pedophilia taking place in his diocese for decades . Finally, I think Marlon, in his zeal, has overlooked my comments in URL: http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/043034.html, in which I concluded: Practicing Catholics need to be aware of these uncomfortable realities and separate the religion and way of life they believe in from the institutions and personalities that have often besmirched it, and continue to do so. Marlon continues: Gilbert for his part believes that the Catholic Church can do no wrong to the point of denying that Hindu temples were destroyed during Portuguese rule in Goa. Will the true defender of the Christian faith please stand up! Mario responds: I really have no idea whether Hindu temples were destroyed in Goa in order to build Catholic Churches as some have alleged. However, Goa did suffer through one of the heinous historical bouts of Christian fascism, the Inquisition, and I would not put it beyond the realm of possibility for those Christian fascists to have done so. Gilbert, I believe, is looking for some evidence beyond some facile assertions, and would accept such evidence from a credible source. BTW, the Christian faith, in all it's manifestations, having survived and thrived for over 2000 years, hardly needs us to stand up and defend it.
Re: [Goanet] WE ARE ALL NRAs ( non resident ALIENS)
--- Ricardo Nunes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: North America is inhabited by a few hundred thousand pacific NRMs (non resident Mongolians) who managed to survive the brutal invasion of a swarm of greedy NREs (non resident Europeans) who brought in boat loads of NRAs (non resident Africans) to work for them since the NRMs seemed to be totally uncooperative and had to be thrown into concentration camps. And now, last but not the least, millions of NRIs (non resident Indians) fed up with progress at home are pouring in to straighten that white man's nightmare. Mario adds: Hey, Arjun, Thanks for putting all this in proper perspective, though I may quibble about the adjective pacific for the NRM's who were often not very nice to each other even before the NRE's showed up. And I wonder what the descendants of all those NRA's would have been doing right about now had their hapless ancestors not been dragged away kicking and screaming way back then. BTW, let's not forget that India's MVE (most valuable export) also seem to be straightening out the old world in addition to the new ones. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Past BBC programmes on Goa
--- Nasci Caldeira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When there was this invasion by the Indian armed
forces, into Goa, ('de jure' Goa was the 'Overseas
Province of Portugal' even before the 'Union of
India' the present entity, was born on the 15th
August 1947.)the Potuguese Govt, abandoned Goa and
fled. The act of surender was not signed. So India
was in 'de facto' control and in government of Goa.
Only a few years after, things stabilised; the
Govts of India and Portugal started talking again,
and then after many 'talks' an agreement was
reached and a 'de jure' transfer of Goa was
performed. It was a good ten years I think. Does
the date matter? It's a 'fait accompli'.
Mario observes:
Nasci, thanks for clearing this all up, especially the
'de facto' and 'fait accompli' part, which is what I
have been imploring the Portophiles/Lusophiles among
us to recognize for months now.
BTW, don't you just love the Machiavellian concept of
the 'Overseas Province of Portugal'? Problem solved.
No such thing as a colony. Voila, the nationalists
become insurgents and the liberators become the
invaders. I'll bet the other European colonialists
wish they had thought of this idea :-))
_
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RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 11:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mario Goveia [EMAIL PROTECTED] The difference in my opinion is one of checks and balances. For example, Christians have a rock-solid Golden Rule --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Golden Rule or the ethic of reciprocity is found in the scriptures of nearly every religion. It is often regarded as the most concise and general principle of ethics. It is a condensation in one principle of all longer lists of ordinances such as the Decalogue. http://origin.org/ucs/ws/theme015.cfm Mario observes: Kevin, you are absolutely right. What you missed, however, in my comment above, was that I was using Christians as AN EXAMPLE. Where did I suggest that other religions did not have perfectly adequate Golden Rules? Kevin writes: Actually, only six of the ten commandments dea1 with an individual's moral conduct, which comes as a surprise to most Christians. Essentially, the first four commandments say: Mario responds: By golly, I was wondering when one of the intrepid atheists and/or agnostics would pick up on this :-)) The Holy Joe's did not either :-)) Kevin, my man, there is hope for you after all. This shows your familiarity with the Ten Commandments, which I know you used as the basis in formulating your very own, unorganized atheist version of the Seven, ...er, Six Suggestions :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum, Adieu, Adios.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Next you will probably be telling us that Good-Morning and Good-night are some derivative of May GOD give you a pleasant morning/night and Hullo is related to an angelic cranial adornment :-)) Mario responds: Dear Kevin, Wrong AGAIN, my friend. That is not what I am telling you next :-)) You need to be careful when anticipating what I am likely to say next :-)) The greeting Good-morning stands for Have a good morning, and Good-night stands for Have a good night. Of course, the word Good is synonymous with God, who is ultimately the one who decides whether most of us have a good morning or night - except for you atheists and agnostics of course, because for you Good is whatever you say it is :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] WE ARE ALL GOANS
--- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario It is always a matter of judgement when having judged a point or piece as drivel whether it is worth wasting time on it or not. A perfect illustration of drivel is when someone persists on saying that the Portuguese took their surnames from Goans rather than the other way around. Why would any sensible person want to waste time on a daft assertion like that? The ball is now in your court re the specific point I make above and I await your reply. Mario replies: Your comments above sadly lack an understanding of a couple of facts of modern life. a) Failure to understand the modern use of the smiley face in internet communications, which leads you to your embarrassing and persistent challenge to the notion that the Portuguese did not in fact get their names from Goan Catholics :-)) b) Failure to understand the meanings of the words intemperate and drivel when challenging me to show you where you had used intemperate language in your response to Arjun. Id showed you in great detail. You will have to re-read my previous post to learn why you were being intemperate in calling Arjun's comments drivel, while omitting to explain specifically why you disagreed with him. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: *** Goa wants expats to leave (Pushpa Iyengar in DNA)
Linda, I think the difference is between being on a TOURIST visa and being a resident. The article was Pushpa Iyengar's personal spin on a bogus issue. She refers to foreigners who are on TOURIST visas. Why is someone who is on a TOURIST visa, which is a short stay visa by definition, wanting to buy property, which is a longer term investment? If the foreigners change their visa status to reflect their real interest in Goa, I'm sure they will be able to buy whatever they like. Mario. --- Linda Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes , and send all the Goans all the Indians that have taken residence in the UK back to India ! Lynda From: Goanet News http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=1033200 PANAJI: They helped build brand Goa, fell in love with it and decided to stay on forever. But it seems that they have worn out their welcome. -- Read all Goanet messages @ http://www.goanet.org/archive.php?name=Newslist=goanet _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Kiss which cheek first?
--- afra dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Goanetters, 'Left cheek first'. Its not only because we British drive on the left, it is also because we write from left to right. Mario observes: Afra, I'm surprised that you are disagreeing with your British buddy, Gabe Menezes, who wants everyone to kiss the right cheek of the kissee first which would require the kisser going to the left. Apparently some Portuguese guy said so, and Gabe wants to be like the Portuguese guy. You, on the other hand, want everyone to kiss the kissee's left cheek first, which would require the kisser to go to the right. I hope I am not confusing you :-)) Afra writes: Also if we give someone a back-hander we swing our right hand from left to right. Mario responds: Afra, if you start kissing from the left, you will be kissing the right cheek first! I thought you said above Left cheek first. Please make up your mind. BTW, remind me to stay away from your backhander :-)) Afra writes: It all adds up that the French and the Belgiums have got it all wrong and the British have got it right - we always do. Mario observes: I don't know about the British, but it looks like you are all confused as we can see above :-)) Afra writes: As for the Number of kisses it depends on how intimately you know the person - 10 times if you have been emailing them and have seen them for the first time. (Gabe - don't count on it). Mario asks: Afra, if you know the kissee intimately you should not be still kissing him or her just on the cheeks? :-)) You'll be lucky to go beyond two times for someone you are meeting for the first time :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Re: Galileo, Dan Brown and The Church
Marlon Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given the predominence of Catholic Goans on this list, there is a large bank of people who will mount a vigorous defence of their religion if it is attacked. Unfortunately, when individuals make insensitive and bigoted comments against hindus and muslims on this forum, one is often met with silence. My desire is to defend the under- represented on this forum. Mario observes: Marlon, can you give us a couple of examples of insensitive and bigoted comments about Hindus and Muslims or their religion on Goanet that have been met with silence? If you can give me some valid examples, I would like to address them on the grounds of better late than never. BTW, your concern for the under-represented is touching, and perhaps your desire may be to defend them on Goanet, but, in actual fact, most of what we see from you are unprovoked, disrespectful and mean-spirited attacks on Christians and Catholics and their beliefs, once gratuitously ridiculing your own Mom for praying for a relative with cancer who later died. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa importing poverty/response to Mario
--- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: Dear Mario, Your argument that there are economies in this world that follow the principles of laissez-faire in the absolute is bordering on the comical. Mario responds: I agree it would be comical if I that was actually my argument. For anyone to construe free market economies as pure laissez faire in today's world would be comical. Exceptions based on politics exist in every free market economy. The issue is what end of the spectrum - from ultra-soclalism at one end and laissez faire at the other - does an economy operate near, not any notion of theoretical purity. Can anyone seriously argue that the US is less free market than, say, France or Germany, India or China? Elisabeth writes: Even the US, with perhaps the most liberal economy has safe-guards in place that placate the conscience, social or otherwise. To mention a few, the minimum wage, tax relief and subsidies for agriculture (major WTO issue), tax relief for companies who outsource work overseas (a major bone of contention in the US), the recent ruckus over Dubai Ports Authority taking over the management of a few US Ports. Mario responds: In modern American political parlance, not classic terminology, the US economy, and those who have managed it for years can hardly be called liberal. The minimum wage is a liberal insertion that placates the conscience of left wingers while harming entry level or second-income employees. Tax relief is a mixed political bag to give tax incentives for certain politically powerful sectors of the economy. There is no special tax relief for companies that outsource. BTW, insourcing is creating more jobs in the US than those lost to outsourcing. The Dubai Ports deal had to do entirely with security concerns, not economics. Elisabeth writes: Come on Mario, everything in life is regulated, if not by brute force, as in a command economy, than certainly by sheer dint of political connivance, as in a free-market economy. Mario responds: Not true. Small businesses account for over 80% of the jobs in the US, with nary a real command regulator to be heard from. I have explained above that exceptions due to political realities do not change the basic rule as to what end of the spectrum a strong economy like the US', as well as other strong economies, are closer to. Elisabeth writes: Incidentally, there is nothing incompatible about being a proponent of a free-market economy with a social conscience, just as there is nothing incongruous about being an atheiest or agnostic with a moral compass. Mario responds: A social conscience is a good thing. Every successful company in a free market that does not have one fails sooner rather than later. We call it enlightened self interest. The question in economics, relative to your long lists of insistences in a prior post, is who gets to decide the major details of policies affecting the allocation of labor and material. The old Soviet Union and the old China and the old India did it from the top down and the havoc is there for all to see. Most of the countries south of the US have natural resources and potential tourist assets equal to the US, but are mired in various levels of poverty due to inefficient socialist economic policies. The US does it mostly from the bottom up, more so than any other major country, and has consequently been an superpower for decades. Is this even debatable? While there may be nothing incongrous about an atheist or agnostic with a strongly self imposed Seven Suggestions moral compass, there are no societal checks and balances, standards or consequences, other than the law, for the individual unorganized atheist or agnostic. Am I wrong? Besides, doesn't a Commandment trump a Suggestion any day of the week? :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] An angry man, unleashed
--- Francis Rodrigues wrote: Let's give it a rest shall we, Mario ? Being garrulous is no excuse for being verbose. You threw, I called it. Mario replies: It is all of YOU that need to give it a rest, not me. The less I hear from you all, the better. You called nothing. You had threatened to regale us with tales of 40 years of globe trotting and expertise on an obscure Gospel rejected by genuine Biblical scholars. Instead, you gave us incredible tales of your apparently failed search for eternal youth and a sinless heaven on earth, and some and mental spoon-bending mastery from obscure Hawaian medicine men!!! Hey, that's fine with me. As they say, It takes all kinds To each his own. Francis writes: When we meet in person, we shall see the proof of the pudding shan't we ??? As Cornel says, you sure are one mixed-up 'kid'. Like him, Paulo, etc. I shall leave you to your own devices. I'm sure Kevin, Alfred, etc, will continue to provide more fodder for you. Mario asks: Are you threatening me, now? I hope Kevin and Alfred, who seem far more lucid and coherent than you, appreciate your gratuitous mention of them being some sort of intellectual fodder. If I am so mixed up, can you explain to everyone why someone like you, whom I have never met and have no interest in meeting, who holds long-standing grudges against respected Goanetters who cannot even remember who you are, launched a furious but incoherent sneak attack on me and my home town, from your address but under the name Gary Rodrigues, using as your basis a blatant falsehood posted by one of your cronies about my number of posts in a day that any sensible Goanetter would have known was false: (http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-March/040689.html)? Then, when I whacked you with your own falsehoods, (http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-March/040837.html) you were unable to back up anything you had said, and have since been pouting and sniping at me and inserting sly and gratuitous references to me in posts that have nothing to do with me. I won't even go into the other multiple identities that you have used, not to mention bogus phone messages. Francis writes: Finally, my sympathies to you Mario, for being 'unable to place' me, oh how deliciously delightful that phrase rolls. I did mention being ' a strange bird of passage' didn't I ?! I'll leave you with my favorite-Baroness D'Orczy's Scarlet Pimpernel They seek him here, they seek him there..! Mario responds: Francis, you should have searched for linguistic comprehension before you went looking for eternal life. If you re-read my post you will see that I did not say that I could not place you - I haven't even met you. I said that there are respected Goanetters whom you hold long standing grudges against, who cannot even place you. Regarding being a Strange bird, we now have it on record that that is apparently how you see yourself :-)) Actually, some of us had it figured out independently :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Fwd: Re: [Goanet] re: immigration (2)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Eugene Correia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's been a lot of debate over immigration -- local and foreign. As the US is in the midst of a crisis and Canada under the Conservative Stephen Harper is also turning into anti-minority, immigration is come under fire from the right-wing forces. Mario observes: Eugene, Before you go too far off the deep end with snide comments connecting a conservative Canadian P.M. with anti-minority and anti-mmigrant sentiments, please let me save you some unnecessary embarrassment. The US crises is an in-house debate on how best to treat 12 to 15 million ILLEGAL immigrants fairly, and help those that are interested to become LEGAL immigrants, while preventing more ILLEGAL immigrants from violating it's sovereignty. The same applies to Canada. I trust you appreciate the difference between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants, regardless of whether they are minority or not. To put this in perspective the US ILLEGAL immigrant population is almost the size of the entire population of Australia, and most of them are good, hardworking contributors to the US economy, who desperately want to become official US residents. Which means they are employed, albeit under the table, many with forged documents. However, they have also broken the law, which is what makes dealing with them somewhat complicated. However, what this also means means is that any charges of anti-immigration or anti-minority sentiments in this debate would be simply flat-out false. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa importing poverty
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mario, I didn't want to embark on a US related topic since I understand that they are banned on Goanet but I was curious to know which side of that debate you fall on. Mario replies: Elisabeth, As you may or may not know, many Goanetters adamantly believe that the topics on Goanet should be narrowly restricted to Goa and Goa alone. However, as we see in the Da Vinci Code debate and the Timor Leste debate, we stumble into non-Goan topics by the back door. The decisions on what is off topic are uneven in my never humble opinion, and I had to really work hard to express that politely :-)) I believe that Goanet administrators should allow topics that are of interest to GOANS, many of whom do not live in Goa, and may have interests that go way beyond Goa. Readers who are not interested in those topics can ignore them, just as I can ignore topics that do not interest me. However, this logic has not prevailed at this time. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Woman priest says Mass
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd welcome / encourage them to have a Progressive Igroz with a woman pope. They even have a good candidate for the job. And very articulate members on this forum (donât have to go far) who could hold other high offices. Their religion could expound on multiple spouses, lax moral, social and legal codes etc etc. So what is holding them back? Their joy of torturing the rest of us perhaps.:=)) The next demographic study of Goans can even have a category of Goan atheists/agnostics. This in addition to the current Hindus, Catholics and Muslims. I am sure the ever-generous Khoro Niz Goenkars will make room for these bhaile. Kind Regards, GL Mario observes: Gilbert, You have taken a far more scholarly approach to this that I had ever intended. I will now get out of the way of the inevitable brickbats :-)) There I was, minding my own business, chatting with Elizabeth about the hubris of the woman who just up and declares herself a Roman Catholic woman priest (see http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/043123.html) when suddenly, out of the Canadian bushes, up jumps Kevin, with a nasty and totally fact-free comment attacking me for being a servile sheep blindly following and being manipulated by the shepherd (see http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/043142.html). Anyone who has read my posts knows that I have been a vociferous critic of the current and previous shepherds, publicly challenging the conventional wisdom for very narrow and specific reasons that have been articulated in great detail. I also have respect for whatever beliefs people choose to have, unless they shove these in my face, or make wildly bogus comments, whichever comes first. So, I politely pointed out to Kevin, that he was wrong, and that his personal, unorganized what can I get away with today version of The Seven Suggestions had failed to grasp the facts of my beliefs, and, if deliberate, perhaps needed to be taken in for some fine tuning :-)) I know that Kevin has worked very hard at re-defining The Ten Commandments into his personal unorganized atheist version of The Seven Suggestions, so he should be all right now. Just needed a friendly reminder :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Reminder on morality and social conscience
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is to remind ourselves that the notion that a moral compass or social conscience is dependent on adherence to some form of ideology, religion or atheistic belief system, has been thoroughly discredited in this and other Goan forums. It has also been shown that no religion, ideology or atheistic belief system has ever had a rock-solid moral compass. Mario responds: I agree with Santosh's redundant reminder that an individual's moral compass is theoretically not dependent on any ideology or religious or non-religious belief, and that the results can be the same on a day-to-day basis. However, I must have missed been shown that there is no rock solid religious moral compass. By definition an individual unorganized atheist, as opposed to defined and highly organized atheist groups like the Buddhists and Jains and others that function very much like religions, cannot have anything that can be called a rock solid moral compass because it is whatever the unorganized individual says it is. The difference in my opinion is one of checks and balances. For example, Christians have a rock-solid Golden Rule and also a rock solid list of Ten Commandments. While individual Christians may follow their own course, doing so comes with religious consequences for a practicing Christian. Similarly, organized atheists groups like Buddhists and Jains have rock solid standards for their members. Individual unorganized atheists MAY have what could be summarized as the Seven Suggestions that overlap similar strictures in the Ten Commandments. However, these carry no consequences by any organized and influential group other than those imposed by civil or criminal law. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] PREACHING AT TIMOR
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario You must be reading Fox News. Good luck to you. Mario responds: You are obviously reading The Guardian and the BBC, which is why you have no clue that it was the UN that dropped the ball in Timor Leste :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum, Adieu, Adios.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few months ago it seems a hornet's nest was disturbed, by the farewell salutations used here! Yesterday whilst watching Master Mind, a common farewell used in French and Spanish amongst other 'Latin' languages, Adieu = To God So it seems it is not just Konkani that invokes God, so eat your hearts out fellas! Mario adds: In addition, those familiar with Hindi speaking central India would be familiar with a popular greeting in Hindi, Ram, Ram! Are there some other God-related greetings in other languages that we can document to confound our atheist brethren? :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] Goa importing poverty/response to Elisabeth
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Elisabeth Carvalho wrote: I too am a free-market proponent and as such believe that micro-managing economies is an exercise in futility. However, we've learnt through history free-markets cannot be allowed to reign without a social conscience. If this persists, what we get are neo-feudal societies, where one group grows more powerful at the expense of another. Mario replies: Where did you get the notion that you were a free-market proponent? The However proves that you are not, by definition. Who gets to decide whose social conscience is the correct one? Is the notion of a social conscience a case of providing good intentions or producing good results? Free market economies provide more wealth for more people that any other alternative that has been tried. Elisabeth writes: We can argue the economics of this at length, and we won't arrive at any conclusion. Mario replies: No need to argue. Just look at the record. The facts are there for all to see. India in economics, before liberalization, and after. China in economics, likewise. The old Soviet Union countries, before and after. The stagnant major European countries like France and Germany with social consciences. Practically all the African countries, which have their own version of a social conscience, except South Africa. Elisabeth writes: I'd like to invite debate on the social impact of such mass migration. No doubt, it will change the demographics of Goa. Is such a change welcome? Is it accepted because there is nothing to be done. Mario responds: Again, who gets to decide whether freely induced mass migration desirable or not, or is welcome or not? Who gets to decide what, if anything, should be done about any social and economic changes taking place? We saw from Vivian's poignant personal experience, which is duplicated by every small business in Goa, that he would have either paid a huge price, or been unable to get his work done had he insisted in using Goan Konkani-speaking labor. Had he been a business he would have gone under. What kind of social conscience would want that across a whole state? Elisabeth writes: We have to learn lessons from Mumbai and Bangalore, where Marathas and Kannadigas are now in the minority, a small voice unheard in their own politics. Mumbai as we all know is a city drowning in urban poverty despite being the commercial capital of India. Mario observes: The lessons are what you choose to see. What's wrong with Marathas and Kannadigas being in the minority in Mumbai or Bangalore? Everyone who lives in Mumbai is there by choice. Drowning in poverty? With electrified jhopdis, refrigerators, TV sets, PC's, mobile phones. Poverty, compared to what? Elisabeth writes: Is this what we want for Goa? Or is there a way to systematically go about insisting on certain things; like proper housing for migrants instead of sprawling slums on communidade land, insist that they learn Konkanni as their language, insist that their children are schooled and not roaming the streets as beggars and urchins plying services for pedophiles, insist that the culture poverty that they bring with them is reconditioned. These are the hard questions for Goans living in Goa to answer. Mario replies: Elisabeth, with so many insists you have clearly answered my question above about who knows what's good for everyone else, even better than they do :-)) When you return to India, I suggest you run for a seat in the Goa government. What you have outlined above is the exact opposite of a free-market proponent who would insist that market forces, which means millions of buyers and sellers, each with their own enlightened self-interest and social conscience, freely exchanging goods and services at prices acceptable to them, get to decide, helped by freely elected governments maintaining the infrastructure, security and safety, and a fairly enforced legal system arbitrating disputes. Elisabeth writes: If we don't address these issues now, what we will have is a sort of social apartheid. Two societies living in parallel worlds. And Goa is not immune to becoming just another Soweto. Mario replies: Soweto was a by-product of a heinous and abominable system of institutionalized racism and discrimination. India has a secular population that could not even tolerate the BJP. India has already taken the first step in starting
Re: [Goanet] The Judas Gospel Huna Phenomenon.
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Francis Rodrigues wrote: OK, I've done lots of strange un-goan things ! Big deal. Mario wants to know more ! Mario responds: I have no idea what an un-goan thing is, but just to relieve Francis and his complex personality of his delusion of intellectual superiority, I really didn't want to know anything about this incredible search for eternal youth and a sinless, spoon-bending nirvana on earth, though it does explain some of the other, more earthy, tendencies that we have seen from him on Goanet :-)) I did remind him of his threat to regale us with tales of 40 years of globe trotting and his expertise in the Gospel of Judas, which, as we all know, has been excluded from credible consideration by mainstream Christian scholars, along with the Gospel of Mary and other gospels. Whether he has done so, at least in this post, I will leave up to others. However, I am more than a little perplexed that the study of mental mastery under obscure Hawaian medicine men (?!) did not lead to a far more mature approach to life than are apparent in the deep-seated resentment and snide and transparent and totally unnecessary personal references to me in this and other posts, and long-standing grudges against other respected Goanetters who cannot even place him, which I will not go into here. My suggestion to Francis is to stop embarrassing himself by slipping in the snide and unnecessary references to me in unrelated posts, and to focus on his Aunty Ponty impersonations, which some on Goanet actually like :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] What is a Portophile? Actually, just like a Lusophile:-))
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Alfred de Tavares [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Portophile has you confounded poor, otherwise sapient, Mario? Mario observes Alfred, You will pleased to know that my sapience is not only intact but now bolstered by my research :-)) However, where did you even get such an idea? Certainly not from my post. In fact, mostly because I took the time to research the issue, I am far more sapient on this subject than almost anyone else. Alfred writes: How aboot plain and simple: a lover of Porto a.k.a Oporto, the city on the banks of balmy Douro? Mario replies: Far too plain and simple. The word is Portophile, not Oportophile or PortVinhophile :-)) Alfred writes: If, along with a bottle of hock, you listen to those nostalgic lyrics As lendas do rio Douro... rest assured you will turn into such a Portophile. Mario replies: Alfred, I have been a Portophile almost all my life, ever since I learned that a village in Portugal had assumed my family name several hundred years ago, and has now grown into a decent sized city, and also learned that the Portuguese were color-blind when it came to people, which makes them unique, not only among Europeans but also among everyone else :-)) However, what may have confused you and led you to impressions that cannot be supported by facts is that my admiration and affection for the Portuguese people had an exception for the way in which the country conquered and colonized my ancestral homeland, until they were eased out by a stronger native force of my countrymen in 1961. Alfred writes: Alfred, a staunch phile of them both, the nectar, red white and perish the gout, as well as the town. Mario replies: All I can say to that is, Salud! _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Respectfully ... (was) Woman priest says Mass (2)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Respect begets respect. Mario replies: That is precisely why your new convert lack of respect for religion begets lack of respect for your brand of atheist evangelism. Kevin writes: Why was Christian aid refused during the tsunami crisis? Mario asks: I don't know. Why? Kevin asks: For all your xapotam, there is hardly ever any 'religious' aid provided without strings attached. Mario replies: That is just flat out false. Kevin writes: In Ontario, the Catholics are hanging on to publicly funded religious schools even though majority of the students are from 'non-practicing' families to further their attempts at brainwashing the younger generations. Mario responds: This is what Jose calls bandollam. The Catholic schools cannot capriciously hang on to anything that is publicly funded. Who are you trying to brain wash? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
[Goanet] Goan realities and enterprise
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- http://shire.symonds.net/pipermail/goanet/2006-May/043164.html Everyone concerned about Goa should read Vivian's post in the URL above, MORE THAN ONCE, since it is a real life account from someone who has personal experience of Goa's labor market, and has set a personal example by moving back to Goa, buying property and building a house, thereby contributing in a tangible manner to Goa's economy, which others in the diaspora only talk about. BTW, in the spirit of encouraging local businesses in Goa, how many Goanetters know that our popular humorist on Goanet, Cecil Pinto, is really a florist in Panjim, and you don't even have to go to Goa to buy his beautiful floral creations! Just click on: http://www.goa-world.com/goa/expressions/faq.htm Whoa! You can almost smell that bouquet! :-)) Disclaimer: These are personal testimonials. Neither Vivian nor Cecil have solicited or paid me for my comments :-)) _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE : Kiss which cheek first?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- On 01/06/06, Cher Sty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Concerning, the right side by which the first kiss has to be given, there may be exceptions to that - which I do not know - if in UK, they start by the left cheek, that may be explained by the fact that they drive on the left unlike most of the European countries. ;-) --- Gabe Menezes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RESPONSE: Thank you for the clarification; just as I thought right cheek first! Now I do hope our Goans who did it nonchalantly, do it correctly! Mario observes: For the spatially challenged among us, if the kisser starts with the kissee's right cheek, he or she would be starting from their - the kisser's - left, and vice versa. I think the kisser should start on their right, which would be the kissee's left cheek. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
RE: [Goanet] Past BBC programmes on Goa
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- Paulo Colaco Dias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Typical Mario... Like it or not, the events of 18th Dec. 1961 were recorded in the history books as the Indian invasion of Portuguese India. An attack from a sovereign country to another sovereign country. A violation of International Law. An act of war. So, why do you blame the BBC Your claim that the BBC is unreliable and biased is ridiculous! Mario responds: Typical Paulo... :-)) You are obviously reading Portuguese history books, my friend. That's not what MY history books say :-)) Believe me, as a nationalist whose family were warned to stay away from Goa by the dictatorial Portuguese colonialists, I liked the events of December 18, 1961, a lot! We celebrated with the little fenny we had left. We had no authentic cheurisam made from Goa's live sanitation system left :-)) We had no parra left. Finally, we could go to Goa, experience again a place caught in a time-warp, bathe in well water drawn fresh, read by candlelight, walk the rutted, dusty red roads, pluck cajus and mangos off the trees, and replenish our stocks of Goan delicacies and refill our garafaos :-)) Finally, a 450-year-old and continuing violation of International Law was being redressed. Finally, India had summoned up the gumption to eject a defiant and intransigent Portugal with self-serving delusions of a province on foreign soil, half a world away, that they had conquered 450 years ago by force and were continuing to hold on to 14 years after the rest of the civilized world had declared an end to the era of colonialism. Independent studies have shown that the BBC is highly biased in it's news reporting, especially on certain political issues, where it almost rises to the level of propaganda. I remember reading comments by returning British soldiers from Iraq who could not even recognize what the BBC had reported on what their units had been engaged in. Paulo, don't you see that the world has changed? That Goa has changed? Whether it is for better or worse depends on who you are. The Portuguese are not coming back to Goa anytime soon. Isn't it time to move on? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] RE: Viva Goa
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- soumo chatterjee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So relax and enjoy the book for what it is. and let Goanet be the discussion forum on GOABy the way heavy rains are lashing Goa... how many of us are bothered enough to send in help or phone our people there if they are OK? think of that instead.. Mario observes: Soumo, we get it. You are a Goaphile. You want Goanet to restrict itself to GOA, and GOA alone, yet everything you have posted so far has been about The Da Vince Code which has nothing to do with Goa. How is your suggestion supposed to work? How about telling us what you think about the ongoing discussions on Goanet about restricting non-Goans from the job and real-estate markets in Goa? _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
Re: [Goanet] PREACHING AT TIMOR
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. --- --- cornel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martinho I see no ambiguity or bias in the posts relating to Timor on Goanet. The consensus seems to be that Australia is well tucked into its affairs because of oil in the region. Full stop. Mario observes: Consensus? What consensus? The UN, not Australia, previously had full charge of Timor Leste, and could have continued with a peacekeeping presence there until stability had been achieved, so this facile claim about Australia intervening simply because of oil seems farfetched if not flat out false. _ Do not post admin requests to the list. Goanet mailing list (Goanet@goanet.org)
