[Goanet] Pinocchio is alive and well in Moira, Was Another Goebbelsian lie nailed
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:09:45 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com 1. I never lived in Goa during Portuguese times except for a brief visit when I was a toto. Mario responds: OK. I stand corrected. The point is that you have somehow developed an unhealthy respect for playing second fiddle and walking in the white man's shadow, based on your comments here on Goanet. Tony D'Sa wrote: 2. Yes I have made several trips to Carmona. There is a beautiful beach there. After all I live in Goa 24x7 at least post 1962. Mario responds: Hai, Ram! as they would say where I grew up! Talk about wilful ignorance. This guy is now pretending to not know what is going on in Carmona. The request by Arwin was not that you go to Carmona to hang out on the beach but to confront the Sarpanch from behind Wendell's skir.., ...er, trousers. Tony D'Sa wrote: 3. If you are refuting the fact, please provide solid proof. Other wise don't make baseless statements. Mario responds: The fact is that you joined Samir in attacking foren NRGs for no rhyme or reason and declaring they were essentially interlopers and that we and only we - referring to RGs - could solve the problems in Goa. Then, after being chastised by Selma and Vivian you began to pretend that you were on the same side as them. Tony D'Sa wrote: Since you have publicly stated in this forum that you have little or limited interest in Goa, my advice to you is to keep off Goa's affairs and keep twiddling your thumbs or whatever you do and keep wasting your time and talents on your Republicans who got drubbed by the Kenyan Obama. PS if Obama can become the president of America, why can't you, you second class citizen? Mario responds: First of all, I am not a Republican as alleged by Pinocchio. Secondly, we are seeing the last resort of a malcread caught in a web of falsehoods of his own making: start hurling what he thinks are insults. In the meantime, after stating that we and only we, i.e. RGs can solve Goa's problems, he cannot even respond to Arwin's request go to Carmona to confront the Sarpanch, whereas he can go there to enjoy the beach.
Re: [Goanet] CACOPHANY IN A CAANSO
Mario wrote: Just like the Cockney Loudmouth, these impotent comments show no understanding of the discussion, which is pretty amazing coming f from foren NRGs who were the butt of the attacks from some RGs afraid they were losing the limelight on doing things for Goa. Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:58:14 + From: Gabe Menezes gabe.mene...@gmail.com Better to be a Cockney loud mouth than a sniveling, whining whippet..self agrandising, good for nothing so and so. One who allegedly know all things about everything! There aint no one better on Goanet.oooh, go on and on, it becomes not a chore but a bore. Mario reponds: Does this mean that Gabe is admitting to being one himself? Don't his abusive comments shown above fit far more closely with adjectives like sniveling and whining? Besides, he seems unable to engage in an adult discussion by specifically picking what he disagrees with and explaining why. I guess he thinks he can bully people with his abuse, which probably works in some circles that he associates with in the east end of London.
Re: [Goanet] CACOPHANY IN A CAANSO
From: Frederick Noronha Guys, some unsolicited advice: at some point in the debate, one or both (unlikely!) will have to give up on last-wordism :-) Mario observes: The last word in a public forum should always be some semblance of the truth. Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:58:22 -0500 From: Bosco D bos...@canada.com RESPONSE: Now why does Mario believe he has the monopoly on the truth? Rather who decides what is the truth?? Mario responds: It is very sad when one has to explain to an adult how to tell the difference between a truth and a falsehood. Anyway, let me try, based only on the unnecessary firefight on NRGs versus RGs, first started by Samir by attacking Rajan's citizenship, later joined by Tony D'Sa. The truth is when I said in the NRG Vs RG discussion that NRGs are not the problem in Goa, but rather rampant corruption between politicians and the businessmen who they are in cahoots with. Does Bosco dispute this? The truth is when I listed what NRGs like Carmen, Rajan, Arwin, George, Anil had done for Goa at their own time and expense in response to the attacks against them and all NRGs. Does Bosco dispute this? The truth is when I appealed for NRGs and RGs to make common cause against the corruption that was making a mess in Goa rather than two RGs attacking all NRGs. Does Bosco dispute this? Untruths include attacks against foren NRGs by impugning their motives, credentials, citizenship, countries they live in, etc. and saying they have no standing in Goa. Does Bosco dispute that Samir said this in so many words? Untruths include Tony D'Sa a) joining Samir in attacking foren NRGs and claiming that we and only we, i.e. RGs, can solve the problems in Goa, b) claiming that the mess in Goa is imaginary, c) abusing me with accusations of falsehoods when I intervened to blunt their attack, and d) then piously proclaiming that everyone should work together after Selma and Vivian intervened. Does Bosco dispute that Tony did this? Untruths include Bosco's snide insinuation that I have a monoply on the truth, whereas all I have been doing is exposing the truth, whereas Bosco, Gabe and Fred seem to have understood little of what was said in this discussion, based on their factless comments, and Gabe's baseles and abusive attacks on me without a single specific comment mentioned that he disagreed with. Does Bosco dispute this?
Re: [Goanet] Scientific herd mentality has egg on their face
From: Mario Goveia India has formally announced it has lost all credibility with the IPCC, which is the UN body that is a major believer and organizer in scientific consensus on climate change. Jai Ho, Jairam!: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7157590/India-forms-new-climate-change-body.html Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:59:12 -0500 From: Bosco D bos...@canada.com British newspapers have this habit of playing tricks on Mario. Indian prime minister backs IPCC boss Rajendra Pachauri Manmohan Singh said an error did not change the facts regarding the harmful impact of greenhouse gases on the planet http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/05/indian-prime-minister-ipcc-pachauri Mario responds: Once again in his headlong desire to embarrass himself by showing me up, Bosco has caught the bull by the tail, as usual. If the Indian government had such confidence in Rajendra Pachauri as Manmohan Singh the PM is reported to have, and considered him credible, would the Environmental Minister have set up the government's own panel to independantly evaluate the complex and conflicting claims about the causes of climate change, and, more importantly, whether the comical policy prescriptions that would destroy only the western economies, make any sense? Bosco wrote: And what is this herd business, Mario? Mario responds: Sigh! So much education to be done, so little time! Bosco seems to be having a hard time keeping up. The herd mentality refers to the consensus being claimed for one side of the climate change issue, as if consensus is the gold standard of controversial scientific discovery, even when the predictions of global warming by the herd have failed to materialize for over a decade now. On the other hand, there are hundreds of scientists who disagree with the orthodoxy being organized and promoted by the aforesaid Rajendra Pachauri, who is a railway engineer masquerading as a climate scientist, and has joined Al Gore in enriching himself at the expensee of honest scientific discovery. With the growing reports of unethical behavior by leading scientists and administrators, the report shown below describes the effects of scientific over-reaching and hubris based on the herd mentality, ...er, consensus, where anyone who challenged the conventional orthodoxy was ridiculed, shunned and ostracised. This should be a lesson to all scientists that blind consensus is not a good thing in scientific research: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/the-great-global-warming-collapse/article1458206/ Excerpt: “The global warming movement as we have known it is dead,” the brilliant analyst Walter Russell Mead says in his blog on The American Interest. It was done in by a combination of bad science and bad politics. The impetus for the Copenhagen conference was that the science makes it imperative for us to act. But even if that were true – and even if we knew what to do – a global deal was never in the cards. As Mr. Mead writes, “The global warming movement proposed a complex set of international agreements involving vast transfers of funds, intrusive regulations in national economies, and substantial changes to the domestic political economies of most countries on the planet.” Copenhagen was never going to produce a breakthrough. It was a dead end. And now, the science scandals just keep on coming. First there was the vast cache of e-mails leaked from the University of East Anglia, home of a crucial research unit responsible for collecting temperature data. Although not fatal to the science, they revealed a snakepit of scheming to keep contradictory research from being published, make imperfect data look better, and withhold information from unfriendly third parties. If science is supposed to be open and transparent, these guys acted as if they had a lot to hide. Despite widespread efforts to play down the Climategate e-mails, they were very damaging. An investigation by the British newspaper The Guardian – among the most aggressive advocates for action on climate change – has found that a series of measurements from Chinese weather stations were seriously flawed, and that documents relating to them could not be produced. [end of excerpt]
[Goanet] Confus?o in a caanso
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:05:15 + (GMT) From: Xanno Moidecar xanno_moide...@yahoo.co.uk I just wanted the fusillades that you were directing at each other to be channelled against the real ?enemy?. If my post did not make that clear, I apologise and want to stress here that it was my intention. Mario responds: Xanno, Thanks for your lengthy Letter to the Corinthians, ...er, Goans.:-)) Your post was quite clear, if a little late in the discussion to help calm the raging waters. When you have a minute during your week of RR please make sure to review this discussion. When you do so, you will find that I had said that NRGs were not the problem in Goa. I had requested from the very beginning that the two errant and bilious RGs cease and desist from attacking foren NRGs, maligning them and their motives, questioning their credentials and thumping their chests that we and only we, i.e. RGs, can do what is necessary to address the problems that are causing the mess in Goa. I had asked repeatedly that the RGs join hands with the NRGs in the common cause against corruption and voter malaise in Goa.. Regarding the NRGs that I highlighted. Rajan, whose citizenship inexplicably became an issue, certainly doesn't give a cr.., ..er, hoot, what anyone else thinks. Carmen has been imploring RGs to join her in discussing what can be done, especially about the destruction of the environment by mining companies. Arwin is engaged in intitiaves of his own by approaching certain legislators directly with his concerns. Anil's heroic and silent contribution became public, probably much to his chagrin. George's contributions as a founder of Goa Sudharop are well known. Obviously there are many RGs who have done yeoman's work for Goa. Samir himself, who inexplicable started this cacophony in a caanso, and has since wisely broken it off, is doing things in and for Goa. But we and only we? Are you kidding me? Had you intervened earlier, instead of leaving the defense of NRGs to me alone, we probably would not have reached this point. As it is, the silence of almost everyone else, until Selma and Vivian said essentially what you have above, emboldened at least one of the RGs to change his attack from Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil and other NRGs, to me. This was my goal all along, because I don't mind dealing with bullies and those with irritable bowels, and I didn't want the others to be discouraged because of these attacks. Xanno wrote: Now for that little dig of yours about the English sacaram. Ah my dear Moidecar Tony. How hurtful can thou be? Mario observes: See what I mean? Xanno wrote: So what fuelled the fury? Mario responds: Good question. It is high time it ends. All it is doing is diverting attention to the real problem in Goa, the widespread corruption among politicians and the business interests who work with them to get what they want at the expense of everyone else.
Re: [Goanet] Good news for unborn babies in India
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:42:43 -0500 From: J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com Individuals like Salus may wish to contemplate WHY many babies get aborted every year. Mario asks: Why do YOU think so many babies are killed every year, JC, when they could be given up for adoption? JC wrote: Perhaps, Salus will work hard to make Effective, good quality condoms available to the sexually active and/or organise the acceptance by society of ALL children whether they are born in wedlock or not and/or make available SAFE adoption facilities - putting in place safeguards to ensure that the adopted children do not get abused by the very folks who jump up and down about abortion. (I understand that this still will not take care of the female infanticide prevalent in India) Mario responds: Good quality latex condoms are only a part of any solution. How these are used is the key part of having safer sex versus not using condoms at all. There is no such thing as safe sex. There are several Catholic and Protestant organizations who will help a woman with an unwanted pregnancy to try and save the baby's life. JC wrote: Finally, Salus may wish to advise young women what they are to do when they are raped by a parent. Though in the case of rape and incest, the only method available might be the 'morning after pill'. Mario asks: What would YOU advise these women, JC, given that the morning after pill is nothing but an immediate abortion soon after conception? Why would these pregnancies be treated any differently than any other unwanted pregnancy given that a human life is at stake?
[Goanet] Subject: Indian cry-babies allege racism
Mario Govia: Now we see this news report about how Indians have been treating other Indians IN INDIA. This should give our Aussie members a chuckle:Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:19:39 +0530 From: Tony D'Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Really? When an Aussie Chief of Police advises Indians to tone down their dress and not to wear ipods and rich stuff, why not go the whole hog and ask them to sew chakras on to the left sides of their chests like the Nazi swinehunds asking the Jews to wear the star of David? Mario responds: Tony D'Sa seems to know as much about Australia as he does about Goa. I think the police chief was trying to make Indians less ostentatious and less obvious targets for the bad guys. He was suggesting that it was not racism, which is the first resort of the Indian cry-babies, that was the reason for the attacks but the rich stuff they were wearing. The cry-babies like to ignore the fact that many of these attacks on Indians in Australia were by other Indians because of disputes between themselves. These attacks are clearly by low level street thugs. I have met several white, middle-class and professional level Australians and not one of them were racists. Tony D'Sa wrote: Doesn't this warrant more than a chuckle? Mario responds: No, a chuckle is quite enough, since the article I posted was about the irony of INDIANS discriminating against INDIANS IN INDIA based on race, while other Indian cry-babies in the media and elsewhere are crying racism in the Australian attacks without any proof that there is any racism involved as a general rule.
Re: [Goanet] How many researchers are sincere to their research
--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Then we find that their predictions were wrong FOR A WHOLE DECADE THROUGHOUT WHICH THEY WERE TELLING US THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. None of the questions in these studies asked why the earth had not warmed since 1998 after all these scientists predicted it would.? Or why Mars and Pluto were also warming when there were no humans around to blame.? Or how a trace amount of man-made CO2 - 0.013% total man-made CO2 - could be eliminated.? Or how this could have any effect on their own theory that CO2 levels are driving global warming since most CO2 in not man-made and the CO2 added by all human activity for over 100 years is like a drop in a bucket. Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 07:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com I have already provided factual data that debunk the global cooling in the 1970s myth. Here are the facts provided by the University of California at San Diego that support the conclusion that anthropogenic rise in CO2 is responsible for global warming: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/globalchange/global_warming/03.html Mario responds: All this staunch defending of one-side of the climate change issue - unfortunately the side that is now being exposed for a series of unethical conduct - seems to be wearing Santosh down. He is responding AGAIN to what happened in the 1970's where we had the same herd mentality, ...er, consensus, that we see today on one side worrying about global warming, which had ceased back in 1940, with many eminent scientists on the other side worrying about global cooling. The herd was wrong for 40 years until 1980, and have been wrong again since 1998. In the excerpt of mine that Santosh chose to respond to, there was no reference to what happened in the 1970s. I was talking about the herd predicting continuous global warming through the last decade, whereas there was none. Once again, Santosh provides us with what one side of the herd has to say, which is well known. Unfortunately, the predictions based on their opinion have not come to pass since 1998. Maybe some day. I'm really surprised that a scientist is so impressed by consensus, and seems to go along with whatever one side of the debate says or does without even a word of acknowledgement about their unethical behavior. The actual ebbs and flows in global temperatures are what they are. The causes the herd believes will be proven or disproven by what actually happens in the future. However, what the environmental extremists want the western economies to do, which is basically to shut them down and transfer their wealth to the countries who have no environmenal controls even for health reasons, is what will have a devastating effect on the entire world. THAT is what the herd and their defenders like Santosh are studiously ignoring. For example, from the same post he has responded to here: Quote: In the US the policy prescriptions are to turn the mammoth US economy back to 1875 levels in carbon emissions per capita by 2050. This is nonsense taken to a scientific consensus level. We must be very skeptical when only one side of a scientific debate is defended, while chicanery by the foremost spokesmen fot the consensus, Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri who are openly falsifying the science, goes without comment. The extreme environmental fanatics want to turn back the western economies to emission levels the pre-dated the industrial age, but leave the other countries to do whatever they want, i.e continue to churn out man-made CO2. Does this make sense to anyone with more than half a brain, hobbled in their thinking by consensus? Unquote. Fortunately, India has had it with the chicanery of the herd as we saw in another report that I posted on Goanet. One can only hope that they will include both sides of the debate in their deliberations, and not just members of the herd.
Re: [Goanet] Scientific herd mentality has egg on their face
Mario wrote: India has formally announced it has lost all credibility with the IPCC, which is the UN body that is a major believer and organizer in scientific consensus on climate change.? Jai Ho, Jairam!: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7157590/India-forms-new-climate-change-body.html Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:27:44 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com To find out real facts regarding melting Himalayan glaciers uncovered by Indian and Nepali scientists, please refer to the numerous authentic studies published in scientific journals. Here is one such study entitled Glaciers, glacial lakes and glacial lake outburst floods in the Mount Everest region, Nepal published by S. R. Bajracharya and P. Mool in Annals of Glaciology: http://www.igsoc.org/annals/V50/53/a53a010.pdf Mario responds: I think Santosh is on auto-pilot in his staunch defense of the global warming herd mentality and seems to have missed the fact that the article I posted reported that India has formally rejected the opinions of the herd as represented by the IPCC that he defends so staunchly and will hereby set up its own panels to decide what the real facts are.
Re: [Goanet] CACOPHANY IN A CAANSO
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:05:56 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com Guys, some unsolicited advice: at some point in the debate, one or both (unlikely!) will have to give up on last-wordism :-) Mario observes: The last word in a public forum should always be some semblance of the truth. Now, if the following epiphany exhibited by Mr. D'Sa means what it says, that discussion will have ended. Because of your previous comments which showed no cognizance of the discussion that had been taking place you may not have noticed that the guy who started the attack has broken it off, no doubt convinced by the error of his ways and a new found appreciation of NRGs and RGs working together regardless of their domicile and citizenship. Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:45:29 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Turn your firepower on the real enemy. Rogues desecrating the land of our forefathers? Mario observes: By jove! Do you think he's finally got it?
[Goanet] Scientific herd mentality has egg on their face
While we see spirited defenses on Goanet of the scientific herd mentality, ...er, consensus, Thank God that others who have no scientific axe to grind, and have responsibility for a major economy like India, are opening their eyes to what is going on, and taking action. India has formally announced it has lost all credibility with the IPCC, which is the UN body that is a major believer and organizer in scientific consensus on climate change. Jai Ho, Jairam!: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7157590/India-forms-new-climate-change-body.html Excerpt: The Indian government has established its own body to monitor the effects of global warming because it “cannot rely” on the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the group headed by its own leading scientist Dr R.K Pachauri. [end of excerpt] Here is another report of how the scientific herd mentality, ...er, consensus was found to be falsifying information for its own self-serving purposes. We civilians need to be very careful when scientists cite consensus and do not question the conventional orthodoxy, and, in fact, try to ridicule those who do. Because of unethical scientific behavior now exposed, those days of blindly relying on consensus seem to have come to an end for those who have to live with the effects of self-serving claims of consensus: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.8d6e5773c60565dfc6e882b0a8dcbf18.4e1show_article=1 Excerpt: The Netherlands has asked the UN climate change panel to explain an inaccurate claim in a landmark 2007 report that more than half the country was below sea level, the Dutch government said Friday. According to the Dutch authorities, only 26 percent of the country is below sea level, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will be asked to account for its figures, environment ministry spokesman Trimo Vallaart told AFP. The incident could cause further embarrassment for the IPCC, which recently admitted a claim in the same report that global warming could melt Himalayan glaciers by 2035 was wrong. [end of excerpt]
Re: [Goanet] CACOPHANY IN A CAANSO
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 15:07:52 -0500 From: bo...@goanet.org bos...@gmail.com From: Xanno Moidecar Please cease and desist. Turn your firepower on the real enemy. Rogues desecrating the land of our forefathers. RESPONSE: Certainly you know they are impotent; consequently cannot train their firepower where you are directing them to. Stop this cacophony in a caanso. RESPONSE: Seconded. Mario is usually boring (repetitive) to read once he has sent in two posts on any topic. Mario asks: Inability to understand what is going on must surely be boring. Cacophony in a caanso? Where were these guys when foren NRGs were under attack? Talk about impotence. Just like the Cockney Loudmouth, these impotent comments show no understanding of the discussion, which is pretty amazing coming from foren NRGs who were the butt of the attacks from some RGs afraid they were losing the limelight on doing things for Goa.
[Goanet] Damning admission by Indian climate change scientist
I have long marveled at how an illogical theory blaming CO2 and not changes in the sun for CAUSING global warming became accepted as a reason for turning the management of the world's economies over to political hacks at the UN. Now the hoax has begun to unravel as damning disclosures of scientific chicanery are being exposed every few days. Sadly there are Indians at the center of some of these politically oriented scams. This is just the latest disclosure: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245636/Glacier-scientists-says-knew-data-verified.html Excerpt: The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders. Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research. In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Dr Lal, the co-ordinating lead author of the report’s chapter on Asia, said: ‘It related to several countries in this region and their water sources. We thought that if we can highlight it, it will impact policy-makers and politicians and encourage them to take some concrete action. ‘It had importance for the region, so we thought we should put it in.’ [end of excerpt] Here is another disclosure in a major Canadian newspaper: http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+using+selective+temperature+data+skeptics/2468634/story.html Excerpt: Call it the mystery of the missing thermometers. Two months after “climategate” cast doubt on some of the science behind global warming, new questions are being raised about the reliability of a key temperature database, used by the United Nations and climate change scientists as proof of recent planetary warming. Two American researchers allege that U.S. government scientists have skewed global temperature trends by ignoring readings from thousands of local weather stations around the world, particularly those in colder altitudes and more northerly latitudes, such as Canada. [end of excerpt] Fortunately, saner heads are beginng to see the light, with India and China refusing to sgn the bogus agreement concocted to save face at Copenhagen recently: http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article93870.ece?homepage=true Excerpts: The Indian and Chinese governments have had a rethink on signing the Copenhagen Accord, officials said on Saturday, and the UN has also indefinitely postponed its Jan 31 deadline for countries to accede to the document. An Indian official said that though the government had been thinking of signing the accord because it “did not have any legal teeth and would be good diplomatically”; it felt irked because of repeated messages from both UN officials and developed countries to accede to it. Only four countries -- Australia, Canada, Papua New Guinea and the Maldives -- have signed the Copenhagen Accord so far, though Brazil, South Africa and South Korea have also indicated their willingness to do so. Though Australia and Canada have signed, they have not indicated the greenhouse gas emission reductions they are committing under the accord -- something developed countries are supposed to do. [end of excerpts]
Re: [Goanet] : Opportunity for Resident Goans to help Save Goa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:27:50 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Where have I said that I have solved Goa's environmental problems in my post? And where have I said that John Lobo solved the environmental problem in Goa? My exact words were: One of my wife's relations, Mr. John Lobo worked for Sesa Goa and he was responsible for growing literally thousands of saplings in Sesa Goa's rejections and mining pits. Obviously this was done by him as an employee under the direction of his employers! Mario responds: Sorry, folks. False alarm. Tony, and John have not solved the mining problem in Goa after all. No wonder no one noticed, in spite of all the hard work done by John. I wonder if Sesa Goa was able to do so well why the other mines did not follow their example? Perhaps, Tony, can provide us with answer. Maybe Tony, and John can tell the other mines what to do, and the problem will be solved. Tony wrote: That post is RESERVED only for NRG gassers.meaning you know who. The business of stopping the Rahejas is left to you. Are you up to the challenge? Or only to lie some more. Mario responds: Sorry, Arwin. Another false hope. The RG gasser is not willing to actually DO anything other than pass gas and attack NRGs. He won't even go talk to the Sarpanch in Carmona, even behind Wendell's skir.., ...er, trousers.
[Goanet] We need to Change our Political System
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:35:06 -0500 From: manuel tavares duk...@bell.net We definitely need to change Goa's Political System. Mario asks: Why? What new system did you have in mind? Eddie writes: But we must ensure that we elect Honest and reliable people to replace the current Corrupt Scoundrels who are constantly being re-elected to power. Mario observes: Bingo. No change in the system will ensure this, will it?
[Goanet] Opportunity for NRGs to help Goa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:38:31 -0800 (PST) From: Carvalho elisabeth_...@yahoo.com Victor Rangel Ribeiro, Francis Newton Souza, Assis de Correira, Armando Menezes Might I also add that you don't have to be an author or painter or activist or politician to contribute to Goa. Being an honourable citizen of Goa is a much valued contribution itself. Not all of us are called upon to do great things in life but all of us are called up to do noble and honourable things in life and the collective breath of honour and nobility is what makes a great society. Mario responds: Oh, yeah? We are? Hanh! I don't think I got the memo. When NRGs were under furious assault by a couple of out-of-control Goanetters a few days ago they, too, were claiming as you are that Being an honourable citizen of Goa is a much valued contribution itself. whereas those with citizenships in foreign countries were the worst kind of pond scum regardless of what they wanted to do for Goa.
[Goanet] Re : SALE OF GOA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:10:23 +0400 From: Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com Mario; Again as I have said capitalism cannot be allowed an in-discriminate spree; to affect the land local populace negatively I have stated that its has to be controlled and not given a complete Freed Hand; Mario responds: I know what you have stated - no need to repeat it. My question is who gets to decide what affects someone else negatively. Who exactly will do the controlling, and based on whose rules? Arwin writes: Total Capitalism has serious negative implications for State and Society!! It is a well known fact that capitalism cannot be allowed an in-discriminate spree; to affect the land local populace negatively. Mario responds: Not at all. The well know fact is just the opposite. The proof is that the countries at the capitalist end of the spectrum are far better off economically and socially that those at the other end of the spectrum. Why do you think the magnets for the world's downtrodden are, by rank, 1. USA, 2. Australia, 3. NZ, 4. Canada, 5. Blighty. Capitalist Singapore and Hongkong would rank ahead of the USA in my opinion if they were not so small and oppressive politically.
[Goanet] RGs v/s NRGs ... Diaspora Duels
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:17:09 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com At this juncture, I would like to emphasize my stand and that of many other Goans like me. We are not against NRGs per se and I have said time and again, we certainly appreciate the work done by many NRGs who as Vivian says work and donate silently. Vivian says quote I sincerely hope we can stop this labelling game, as we are all Goenkars, and our hearts and sympathies are with mother Goa unquote I am sure most Niz Goenkars would echo this sentiment. Mario responds: Vivian was right. However you have just made up a stand out of thin air. It was you and Samir who suddenly emerged from your dank hideouts to furiously attack any NRG with foreign citizenship who wanted to do something for Goa, which is the only reason I got involved to draw your fire. Tony wrote: What I personally and I am sure many like me decry is the patronizing, supercilious, know it all Non Resident Goenkar. Not all of us who live in Goa are ignoramuses not all of us hanker for that gift, money or visa that is dangled in front of the local Goan nor do we appreciate show offs among the foren returned Goans who try to impress us with money power. Most of all we do not want the gratuitous advice which is showered by hot air balloons. Like telling us that Goa is a mess and change the system blah blah blah ad nauseam. Mario responds: For your nauseum, take a pill with some kanji. What you appreciate or not is your problem. You should have thought about that before you joined Samir's attack in foren NRGs. Are we supposed to appreciate your attacks? I don't think Carmen, Rajan, Arwin, Anil, etc. are spending their valuable time and money to impress you or anyone else. Tony wrote: Change the system yes. I would second that. How is the question. Mario responds: How, indeed. A useless question, in my foren NRG opinion. The last time I checked it was corruption that was the problem, not the system of government in Goa. Tony wrote: Now if the so called secular parties field rotters, aren't they forced to vote for the rotters? Friend Floriano has tried to change the system, but with all his enthusiasm and zeal, what is the nett result? Mario responds: Put up candidates who are not rotters, like Floriano, then rally support to get him elected. Easier said than done, but you have no alternative. If Floriano has been trying to change the system he is wasting his time. Tony wrote: P A Sangma and Sharad Pawar tried to buck India's biggest secular party and the last election left egg on their faces. Mario responds: Tell them I said to wipe off the egg and get back in the game. Richard Nixon, who had his share of egg on his face, said, You are not a failure if you lose, only if you quit. Tony wrote: Many of us have stayed in Goa even though there were opportunities to migrate. This was a choice that we made. Many of us too have made silent contributions to the state in terms of time, money, skills and talent. Many of us have been in decision making bodies that have shaped things in Goa. Is that not serving Goa? Mario responds: Yes it is, and for that we foren NRGs thank you. Tony wrote: I would like to end this by echoing Vivians words that I have quoted above. Mario responds: Good. If you really mean this quit your attacks on foren NRGs and join those of them who want to help in Goa. You could have taken issue with Samir's attacks long a ago, but, instead, you joined him and wasted our time and energy and deflected attention from the real problems in Goa. BTW, when are you and Wendell going to see the Sarpanch in Carmona?
Re: [Goanet] : Opportunity for Resident Goans to help Save Goa
Mario observes Arwin, Kitem mhontai, re? This is a case that has to be tackled by people on the ground carrying hockey sticks, not by long distance.? But, not to worry. I have alerted our local activist colleagues, Tony and Samir, and I'm sure they will do whatever is necessary to push the Rahejas back and restore some law and order in Carmona. They need to take Wendell along who has a lot of experience dealing with his own Village Sarpanch face-to-face. Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:38:41 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Goebbels Mario, We (RGs) don't need your gratuitous advice. Floriano, whom you claim is your friend and who is very much an (RG) and on the ground here has adequately dealt with the topic in his post: http://goanet.org/post.php?name=Newslist=goanetinfo=2010-January/authorpost_id=188984 This is an RG remedy for RGs. What is more, this is a proven remedy which has not failed the man SEVEN times! *Need we drum this into thick heads more?* Mario responds: I thought I was big DADA (a la Idi Amin). Now Pinocchio Tony is calling me Goebbels Mario. Shows an ignorance of both Idi Amin and Goebbels as well as an ignorance of what is going on in Goa, even as an RG. Floriano is one of the RGs who has been tireless in addressing the problems in Goa. Tony, who tells us that he and John Lobo solved the environmental problems caused by mining 25 to 30 years ago. The obviously did so in such a way that no one else noticed. Tony has suddenly woken up after the horse has left the barn. The corrupt politicians and business interests have ruled on their own behalf and to hell with anything that gets in their way, and they did it right under Tony's nose. By attacking NRGs who are trying to help, Tony and Samir have been defelcting attention from the real culprits in Goa. Now, Samir has discovered some NRGs he likes, but Tony is still imitating Pinocchio. Tony is now trying to tell us that everything in Goa is fine and that RGs are quite capable of taking care of Goa, which they haven't been able to do for the last 30 years, with all due respect to those like Floriano and the list of others who actually tried. If they had we wouldn't be having this discussion, Joe's pictures would be taken in a film studio, and Carmen, George, Rajan, Arwin, Anil and the others would not have to waste any more time and money. Tony needs to quit his obsession with NRGs and bogus analogies and take his hockey stick if he has one and go see the Sarpanch in Carmona with Wendell and Floriano. If he can stop the Raheja's Tony can become Goa's big DADA (al la Idi Amin).
[Goanet] SALE OF GOA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:40:27 +0400 From: Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com It is really unfortunate to know of Goans, actively engaging is the large scale of Goan Land to outsiders, to realise a life of luxury for themselves and their families. It is a well known fact that capitalism cannot be allowed an in-discriminate spree; to affect the land local populace negatively. Mario observes: Arwin, India and China tried socialism for 50 wasted years and have both thrown it on the thrash heap of history where it belongs, and their economies have been booming since. The problem in Goa is not capitalism but corruption, mindless bureaucracy, tax cheating and black money which are all holdovers from the era of socialism. There is little likelyhood of returning to an era where a few elites thought they knew what was good for everyone else, better than they did. By the way, the countries that have rejected capitalism are N. Korea, Cuba, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Bolivia and a few other countries, and all of them are economic basket cases and oppressive dictatorships.
[Goanet] Abortion is first degree murder?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:13:06 + (GMT) From: Xanno Moidecar xanno_moide...@yahoo.co.uk I look at my lovely family and I know that if any one of them needed it, I would have absolutely no hesitation in taking recourse to any means whatsoever, to secure their wellbeing. Mario observes: From what I have read, securing the well being of your family members through embryonic stem cell research is hardly imminent. Besides, embryonic stem cells are available through other means like umbilical cord blood. If I am wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. However, the dilemma about what to do about the growing number of unused embryos does not seem to have any logical solution for those of us who know that the human life begins at conception. Xanno writes: I feel the solution suggested by you and Mario may be the best in these circumstances. Mario responds: Based on his comments, we can see that Mervyn is against abortions. However, Mervyn seems to have accepted the sophistry by some medical professionals he has questioned that the ONLY alternative to abortion is some old lady hanging around a back alley with a coat-hanger waiting to conduct abortions on demand. I believe, if you probe a little deeper you would find that these particular medical professionals have some vested interest in performing abortions. I say this based on the bogus alternative they have mentioned, instead of the far more logical alternatives of counseling and adoption by one of the numerous Catholic or Protestant organizations who will help a woman who finds herself in these trying and traumatic circumstances. If there are no such organizations in Canada, there are several in the US, where Canadians who want to prolong their lives already know they can come for immediate medical tests and procedures that have long waiting lists in Canada. Mervyn counsels against watching videos of abortions, the most effective way to show someone who thinks the fetus is a tissue mass that they are tearing an actual human being limb from limb. I saw a Director of Planned Parenthood in the US interviewed on TV recently after she left Planned Parenthood to speak out against abortions on demand, and her epiphany was as a result of watching an ultrasound of an abortion being performed. The view that abortion is not murder comes from the scientists and secular and legal systems defining a time frame prior to which a fetus is not considered by them to be a human being. Legally, abortion is not murder at least in the early stages in most civilized countries, but in many places until it is born alive. Mervyn agrees that many abortions can be prevented if the young woman is helped financially. However, he seems to imply that it is the government that should be doing so when he says, However, most tax payers baulk at the idea when the realize that they will have to pay more taxes. This may be the prevailing view in socialist-oriented Canada, but in the US the organizations that help women avoid abortion are private and religious organizations, using funds donated by private individuals. In Canada Mother Theresa's Missionaries used to have a facility in Toronto but had to close it because of a lack of private donations. They do have several facilities in the US, and along with Catholic Charities should be the first stop for a woman with an unwanted pregnancy.
[Goanet] NRGs who walk the talk
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 19:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com It was good to find that there are some NRGs who actually walk the talk. Of course, we know many who just spout hot air. Atrisys Technologies is a Verna based embedded software company. A 10 employee company, this is promoted by Sachin Lawande. Lawande is CTO of Herman International in the US and studied at Goa Engineering College graduating in 1988. NE Technologies is another IT company at Verna Software Technology Park having 100 employees. It is again promoted by an NRI based in Atlanta. Both these companies predominantely employ Goans. Hats off to them for using their stay in the US to actually do something for Goa. Mario observes: Hats off, indeed. I agree completely. However, isn't it high time that Samir get off his NRG obsession and get on with whatever he thinks he is doing for Goa and let others do the same, regardless of where they live or have domicile? Instead, Samir continues to write these baffling contradictory posts that make no sense taken together. Samir, too, studied and worked in the US. However, unlike Lawande and the un-named Atlantan, Samir started his business in Bengalooru, not Goa, which is his right as far as I'm concerned because I firmly believe that everyone should primarily do what they decide is in the best interests of themselves and their families, which then indirectly benefits society at large if done well. It was Samir, who is an NRG who took umbrage at foren NRGs, claiming irritably and illogically that their citizenship disqualified them from doing anything for Goa. Samir has been impugning the citizenship and motives of foren NRGs and running down their countries with tales of crime and racism. Samir has been furiously attacking foren NRGs as if they are the problem in Goa, thus deflecting attention from the real culprits responsible for the bribery and corruption that is at the root of the mess in Goa. Several other Goanetters are shaking their heads at these contradictions and attacks that lead no-where. Now suddenly he has discovered some foren NRGs to his liking. This is a good development for someone like me who has been trying to redirect his attention towards the real problems in Goa, and being called a big DADA in return by one of his allies, a la Idi Amin no less, which shows an unfamiliarity with Idi Amin, but is fine with me. I don't know what Sachin Lawande's citizenship is or that of the un-named NRG from Atlanta, but it's nice to see a glimmer of realization by Samir that there are foren NRGs who walk the talk, whereas there are Indian NRGs like himself who have located their businesses outside Goa while thumping their chests about walking and talking in Goa. Aren't Carmen, Rajan, George, Arwin, Anil, among others like them walking the talk when they not just express concerns about Goa like I do in my supporting role as big DADA to cover their flanks from unnecessary attacks, but actually invest their hard earned time and money to come to Goa frequently and actually take on the establishment in Goa as best they can.
[Goanet] Abortion is first degree murder?
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 11:14:48 + (GMT) From: Xanno Moidecar xanno_moide...@yahoo.co.uk The reason I've reiterated it is because in all the heat and hullabaloo we seem to forget that our beliefs, all our beliefs, held with fervour and faith and inspired by religion or rationality, makes us lose sight of the others point of view. I will not judge, in this posting, either camp. I will however, use this opportunity to condemn, any extremist school of thought that prompts violence and unnecessary vitriol. In fairness to both camps, abortions not compelled by extremely unusual circumstances should not be available in state sponsored health services. Mario asks: There is no question that human life begins at conception, regardless of whether one is religious or not, but human beings and human persons begin sometime thereafter based on the latest scientific and legal definitions accepted by most rational people. Where a medical choice has to be made between the life of the fetus and the life of the mother, the parents have a difficult decision to make. Had I been faced with such a decision I would have decided in favor of the mother simply because her life is developed and far more valuable than the nascent life that is a threat to her life. However, there is the issue of thousands of EXCESS embryos created by in-vitro fertilization by parents who cannot conceive naturally. These are lying in medical labs all over the place and have no conceivable use. They are kept frozen, they constitute human life and would evolve into a human being if placed in a woman's womb. The choices for these embryos are a) keep them frozen till hell freezes over, b) use them for embryonic stem cell research which would end these lives, or c) flush them which would end these lives. The Catholic Church has washed its hands off these by banning artificial fertilization and insemination. So, given the real life existence of thousands of these frozen embryos, what would the Xanno Moidekar and other anti-abortion Catholics do with these? Currently some of these embryos are being used for embryonic stem cell research with the permission of those who conceived them. Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 08:53:32 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca I live in Canada. This is the place, in my mind, that comes closest to heaven on earth. The state spends an absolute minimum on sustaining an armed force and instead, concentrates on providing a decent life style for all its residents. Mario observes: I don't know about heaven on earth when a Canadian is unfortunate enough to be one of a million people on a waiting list for surgery, or one of a second million on a waiting list to see a surgeon to get on the first waiting list for surgery, or one of the five million who doesn't have a primary care physician. However, they do have a decent quality of live otherwise, because their national security is underwritten by the USA and those Canadians who want to live can come to the US, where there are no waiting lists, for treatment they cannot get in heaven on earth. Mervyn wrote: In Canada today, one third of all pregnancies are aborted. If ever you are given the opportunity to watch a video on an?abortion being performed, don't. That video will haunt you for the rest of your life. The foetus' face screams with agony during the procedure. Mario observes: Of course it does, because it is literally being torn limb from limb. Mervyn wrote: Whenever I question medical professionals about abortion, the answer I get is always the same. They claim that once the woman has decided on?an abortion, she is entitled to the best medical professionals available. The alternative would be for the pregnant woman to go down a back alley and find an old lady, dressed in black, with a coat hanger. Mario responds: This is the standard bogus sophistry peddled by pro-abortionists. The sane alternative to an unwanted pregnancy is adoption, not an old lady with a coat hanger in a back alley. I don't know where the back alley fits in because in the heaven on earth that is Canada the old lady would have a state sponsored apartment. Maybe they use a back alley because of all the blood that will be spilled. Mervyn wrote: Given these two choices, I would prefer the woman get state guaranteed services. Mario responds: This would make it safer for the mother, but the fetus is still torn limb from limb. Mervyn writes: If you and me want to stop, or even reverse the tide of abortions, we have to come up with a reasoning/incentive that will encourage the pregnant woman to have her child. And if we are going to be truthful, the biggest?pressure for an abortion today, is an economical one. Mario responds: This is not true. There are numerous Catholic and Protestant organizations today that will help a woman with an unwanted pregnancy have her baby and give it up for adoption, without trying to make
[Goanet] Opportunity for Resident Goans to help Save Goa [was, Opportunity for non-Resident Goans, etc.]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:34:48 +0400 From: Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com Dear Non Resident Goans, This is an opportunity for Non Resident Goan to help Local Goans to save Goa; please read below. Orlando and others were amond the very first activist toare fight against Powerful Builders and thier political backers; powerful yes but if more Goans join the effort, we can overcome!! Should you want to help, kindly contact Orlando directly. Mario observes Arwin, Kitem mhontai, re? This is a case that has to be tackled by people on the ground carrying hockey sticks, not by long distance. But, not to worry. I have alerted our local activist colleagues, Tony and Samir, and I'm sure they will do whatever is necessary to push the Rahejas back and restore some law and order in Carmona. They need to take Wendell along who has a lot of experience dealing with his own Village Sarpanch face-to-face.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another
Mario wrote: The problem is not with mining per se but with the environmental destruction and de-forestation caused by open faced mining. In the western countries, such open pit mines are required to be re-landscaped and rehabilitated as a business expense after they have depleted the mine of its ore. Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 17:45:46 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Words of wisdom from Mario the blah, blah Mario observes: Thank you, but it looks like you are running out of words and now forced to resort to incomprehensible sounds like blah, blah:-)) Tony writes: One of my wife's relations, Mr. John Lobo worked for Sesa Goa and he was responsible for growing literally thousands of saplings in Sesa Goa's rejections and mining pits. These things were done around 25 to 30 years ago. But then I am an RG and am on the ground and can see these things. NRGs ensconced in their comfort zones cannot. Sesa Goa has a also fish farm at Codli Mines where they grow prize catches.. Mario observes: This is wonderful news, Tony. It sounds like you and John Lobo have solved the problem 25 to 30 years ago, and have kept it a secret from all our Goanetters who are huffing and puffing about the mines being illegal, unsightly, destroying the environment, etc. Why didn't you tell us all this before when I was suggesting exactly what you are now telling us John Lobo has been doing for 30 years? Now, how about that Sarpanch in Carmona? As the local problem solver, you need to go pay him a visit.
[Goanet] Selma chastises the recalcitrant RGs (was, (no subject))
Selma wrote: The paradoxically complex and yet facile topic of Non-Resident Goans versus Resident Goans continued on Goanet. I can think of several Non-Resident Goans, such as Victor Rangel Ribeiro, Francis Newton Souza, Assis de Correira, Armando Menezes, to name a few, who contributed richly towards Goa's intellectual capital. The strength of Goa has always been this intimate collaboration and understanding between the sons and daughters of its soil, wherever they maybe based. Poet and writer Armando Menezes perhaps articulated it best on the eve of the historic opinion poll when he said: Loving our country we have gone into exile; but though we soared, we did not roam: our hearts like the skylark's, were ever in our little nests. Tony de Sa wrote: That's telling, Selma. Contrast this contribution with that of the big DADA ( a la Idi Amin) of Goanet. What you get is hot air like a burst of flatus. Mario observes: Your comment is very embarrassing, Tony, because the flatulence is actually coming from your direction, and I have to once again explain what we are talking about here. I'm not sure why Selma thinks the topic of NRGs and RGs working together is complex and yet facile - which is like saying that at night it is dark and yet light. Sounds like a flight of fancy, trying to sound profound and wise:-)) To me it sounds like simple common sense that NRGs and RGs would have the same concerns while observing the mess in Goa. And, while Selma mentions a number of old timers who she says have contributed intellectual capital, the sweat and financial capital that Carmen, Rajan, George, Arwin, Anil, etc. are contributing is no less important in today's Goa that is going to hell in a handbasket due to bribery and corruption and destruction of the environment. It is Samir and you who injected a tone of discord and dissension where there was none before with your furious assault on NRGs who wanted to help address the mess in Goa, impugning their citizenship and motives, claiming they have no credentials to help in Goa, running down their countries as racist and crime ridden, and on and on. You see, Selma is saying that NRGs and RGs have worked closely together in the past, regardless of their citizenship. This is exactly what I, the big DADA (a la Idi Amin) and lone voice of reason, truth and peace on Goanet have been suggesting all along that NRGs and RGs should be doing. She is saying exactly the opposite of what you and Sammir have been huffing and puffing about. Next time please aim your bomb in some other direction:-))
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:28:05 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Please refer to your earlier posts. You stated that in the west, criminals are caught and put behind bars. Why then is this Geithner character running loose? Mario responds: Because he has not been accused of any criminal activity. You cannot be caught and put behind bars simply for being an unethical moron. Tony wrote: But then a running dog lackey of western imperialism can only see a mote in another's eye when there is a beam his eye Mario responds: As we can see above, there are no beams in my eye. Sorry, Tony. Try again. Tony writes: What I am trying to say is that if you condemn mining, condemn illegal mining. Now I am sure (you and) I will be treated to a lecture on how to stop illegal mining by our resident armchair solution finder aka voice of truth, reason, blah, blah aka Goebbels Mario. Mario responds to Pinocchio Tony: I have never condemned legal mining in any way shape or form, but you never let any facts get in your way. Others have alleged that the mines are illegal, and I would oppose any illegal mines. Now, your lecture for today so that you can keep up with the conversation. The problem is not with mining per se but with the environmental destruction and de-forestation caused by open faced mining. In the western countries, such open pit mines are required to be re-landscaped and rehabilitated as a business expense after they have depleted the mine of its ore. Please continue to refer your confusion to me and I will be happy to straighten you out. Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:19:32 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com [Goanet] Australian govt. ignores advice on Indian students : report http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Australian-govt-ignores-advice-on-Indian-students-Report/articleshow/5491009.cms Mario observes: Still no evidence of any racism as alleged by the Indian media.
Re: [Goanet] Abortion is first degree murder
Cyril D'Souza wrote: Subject :Abortion is 'First Degree Murder'. Only the mother can protect the child thats in her womb and if the mother herself decides to kill her own? baby who has no means of fighting for its rights then such mothers who are? encouraged and misled by unscrupulous elements in society are committing an action which is not only murder - *it is first degree murder*. Mario responds: As everyone should know by now I oppose abortions of convenience in favor of adoptions, but murder is a legal term that does not correctly apply to most abortions that are conducted legally under the laws of the state. Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:16:12 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca I see no difference between the mother that aborts her baby in the first semester or the mother that abandons her baby as soon as it is born. I also see no difference between the mother that abandons her new born or the mother that abandons her 18 year old, just because the child has reached legal age. Mario responds: This is utter mindless poppycock of the highest order that equates the deliberate ending of a human life with abandoning a living child which will be taken care of by others. Mervyn writes: Finally, I the worst disdain I have is towards the mother that allows her child to join any organization whose main purpose is to kill other human beings. Mario responds: A mother has no legal control over the decisions made by an adult child, even if it does decide to join Al Qaeda.
[Goanet] Terror alert in India
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583612,00.html?test=latestnews Excerpt: Airline passengers across India went through extra security screenings Friday and sky marshals were placed on flights as the government put its airports on high alert amid reports that Al Qaeda-linked militants planned to hijack a plane. [end of excerpt]
[Goanet] NRGS and RGS.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:13:53 -0500 From: anesim...@aim.com I have been following this arguments as i call them with interest and frustration. Mario observes: Anesimo, please stay calm, murre. Interest - good. Frustration - not good. Some doctor once told me that:-)) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 04:11:25 -0500 From: MD mmdme...@gmail.com .to achieve the goal, the RGs and NRGs should be complementary to each other and should have a positive resolve to do something to the overall development. Either one can not do without the other. Mario observes: MD, you, too, are correct. However, what we had was one RG and one NRG with Indian citizenship running amok throwing stones and brickbats at every NRG in sight, impugning their citizenship and their motives, running down their countries, rubbishing their legal standing in India, instead of joining with them in attacking the primary problem in Goa, or even the secondary problem. The comments shown in the following posts were what I took issue with precisely to get everyone to focus on the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance between corrupt politicians and business interests: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188400.html I'm glad you agree with me that everyone needs to work together. Tony de Sa wrote: This is typically the sarsaparilla that Gouveia specializes in. Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:38:56 +1100 From: Salus Correia saluscorr...@gmail.com What is the connection using the word 'sarsaparilla'? That is a fruity drink freely available in Australia!!! Tastes great when cultured. Mario Goveia [not, Gouveia] observes: To begin with, do the bug, ...er, chaps, in Goa know what 'sarsaparilla' is? Maybe they do. Secondly, there is about as much of a connection as there is between the corruption and racism in Australia, the Bahamas and the USA and the corruption in Goa. In other words, zero, zip, nada. I don't do fruity drinks, whether cultured or uncivilized. Now, if he had said that I specialize in feni or beer or Old Monk or even Tiger Brand mhowwa from my Bhayya days, he would have been right on the mark:-)) Lead, follow, or get out of the way. - Thomas Paine.
[Goanet] Attacks on Indians are racisit : Australia's ex-Army chief
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:04:45 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Attacks-on-Indians-are-racist-Australias-ex-Army-chief/articleshow/5478936.cms Wonder what argument our resident NRGs have this time. Ex-Army chief has lost his civic consciousness ? :-) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 22:06:53 -0500 From: Venantius J Pinto venantius.pi...@gmail.com To All among Us on Goanet, I would like to know whether any Goan, NRG or resident on Goanet explicitly said that the attacks in Australia, were in any way not racist. Was it even implied that the attacks and deaths must not be seen as racist. Mario observes: The last I heard they had not caught those who had attacked the Indians in Australia. Until they are caught and there is evidence that their attacks were racist, how would anyone know for sure whether the attacks were racist or not? Gabriel de Figueiredo showed where an attack on some Indians in Australia were actually carried out by other Indians: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188317.html If you read the article posted by Samir, the ex-Army Chief has no facts or evidence to back up his incendiary speculation. Here is his not-so-brilliant analysis of his suspicions followed by a suggestion that the authorities look more closely: Quote: If you didn't suspect a racial strand you'd be mad. Attacks recently by groups of people on individuals looks like a profiling approach to people from the sub-continent. Rather than say 'nothing to worry about', I'd rather look more closely, Unquote. The article goes on to say, Indian media have labelled the attacks as racist, but police and the government insist they are purely criminal. Once again, there is no evidence as yet to know for sure whether these particular attacks were racial or criminal. Samir's intention in posting such a scurrilous article filled with baseless speculation was clearly to deflect attention from his furious personal attacks on NRGs trying to help address the mess in Goa. In the meantime the Rahejas are not impressed by the crime waves and racism taking place in Australia, the Bahamas and the USA:-)) They are happy that attention is being deflected by Tony and Samir from their co-opting of village Panchayats in Goa.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:03:43 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com http://www.alternet.org/workplace/145181/do_obama_and_geithner_have_the_same_flaw:_accommodation_instead_of_moral_action/ Please read the article in the link given by Mervyn: We can infer: 1. That corruption exists in high places in America and in such magnitudes that would put some of the third world parties to shame. 2. Racism exists in America contrary to what the running dog lackeys of the white imperialists (some of them on this forum) would have us believe. Mario responds: To begin with, the link above was not given by Mervyn. Secondly, what does racism and corruption in America have anything to do with the corruption that is making a mess in Goa? I think Tony's thinking gives us a good idea why Goa is in such a mess to begin with.
[Goanet] Big builders mould pliant Panchayats
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:26:39 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com And Mario, I prefer to spell my name de Sa and not D'Sa. Big DADA's Correction: Memo to Tony de Sa Samir Kelekar Here is an illustration of a REAL problem going on right under your RG noses that can be addressed before it is too late. [end of correction] Tony wrote: So finally the big DADA of the NRGs has fnally proved my point. Only we RGs can solve Goa's problems. Big DADA responds: In addition to being the lone voice on Goanet for reason, truth and peace, Tony has now designated me the Big DADA of the NRGs. He is being too kind:-)) The only real point that has been proved so far is that if the RGs had had any inclinations to solve anything in Goa, they would have started long ago, and the mess we see would not have developed. My request was for Tony and Samir to put down that bottomless glass and go help the villagers who are opposing the Rahejas who have co-opted their Panchayat. Let's see if they will do so. Please provide us with a full report with pictures, like Joe does. Big DADA is waiting:-)) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:19:53 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Hi Tony Mario has openly declared on Goanet (you should be able to find that post if you search the archives) that he doesnt intend to do anything for Goa. Getting into a dialogue with such a person is a waste of time. So, it is best he is ignored. Mario responds: No more Big DADA? Whew! Thanks, Samir. I hereby designate Rajan the Big DADA of the NRGs. His vocabulary, which seems to offend at least one overly sensitive Canadian Goanetter, is far more suited for that important role since we are dealing with some real thugs among Goan politicians and business interests. My role as reasonable, truthful peacemaker does not fit:-)) Om, shanti, Om, and all that. It would be nice if someone can find the post that Samir is referring to where I said I do not intend to do anything for Goa. I don't remember saying any such thing. In fact, I have been performing a huge service to Goa by intercepting the stones being thrown by Samir and Tony at the NRGs and exposing their feverish attempts to grab the limelight and thump their chests as the only ones who can save Goa, in Tony's words, we and only we. You can try and ignore me, which is not very easy to do as we can see from Tony's feverish posts and growing desperation, but you cannot ignore the mess in Goa. Now, how about you two humanitarians helping the villagers whose Panchayat has been coopted by the Rahejas. They are not impressed with the racism and crime waves sweeping Australia, the Bahamas and the US.
Re: [Goanet] ABORTION AND PERSONHOOD
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:57:18 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca Abortion is only the proxy for the real issue which is believers v/s non-believers. Mario responds: This makes no sense whatsoever, at least as far as I am concerned for whom abortion has nothing to do with believers and non-believers. Mervyn wrote: The group of people who have a religious book or guidance to depend on will always be firm believers on what they are told. If the book says no to abortion, then it is so. Any other opinion becomes that of 'the anti-God.' The group of people who simply refuse to believe every word in the religious books have the opportunity of finding out from science when life begins and when it ends. Mario responds: Perhaps Mervyn wrote his comments before he saw my post in response to Venita Coelho's column in the Herald, where I provided my perspective on abortion without referring to any religious book or any religious teaching: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188843.html I made no references to God or anti-God, and only used science and common sense as my guide. Mervyn wrote: It is not unusual to read in the Canadian papers of a person being revived after spending 15 minutes at the bottom of a lake. Science is pulling people back from what used to be know as the 'dead.' Mario observes: Though modern medical technology can do a lot of wonderful things, it still cannot bring back people who are dead, i.e. brain dead. The people referred to above were not dead. Mervyn wrote: While it seems that the drive of every scientist is to expand scientific knowledge, the drive of every religious person seems to be to repeat what he is told to believe. Mario responds: Poppycock. I am a practicing Catholic and no one has told me to simply repeat what someone has told me. Many scientists also practice a religion and are able to tell the difference between science and faith. Mervyn wrote: There are thousands of websites devoted to the debate on believers v/s non-believers. I ask all here that are interested in debating beliefs, to take their arguments to those sites. Mario responds: Thanks, but Goanet is fine for any discussion that Goans are interested in.
[Goanet] StyleSpeak: New Decade Resolutions
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:04:32 -0500 From: manuel tavares duk...@bell.net To ensure that all eligible Goans are registered to vote and also ensure that on election day, they turn up and vote out all corrupt, selfish, and dishonest Members of parliament and vote in honest, courageous and selfless MP's who know that it is an honor to represent the people in parliament and ensure that it is the people's business that they are elected to conduct NOT their own and that they are there to do the Peoples work not to enrich themselves at the people's expense. Mario adds: Amen. Even I could not have said it any better:-)) I hope Wendell, Floriano, Venita, Tony, Samir and all RGs will take this to heart and do whatever they can to make this happen. BTW, the last two need to put down their stones and quit thumping their chests. Whatever else you do will not go very far if the local citizens cannot be riled up to throw the bums out. They showed what they could do by opposing the inappropriate SEZs and CRZs, and this would be another step in the right direction. In the meantime, the Village Panchayats who caved in to the Rahejas need some attention. Wendell told us of the relations he had developed with his own Panchayat and Sarpanch, and there is no reason why the villagers affected by the Raheja developments cannot do the same. 2010/1/19 soter so...@bsnl.in wrote: Sometimes it just baffles me as to why people blame politicians for Goa's miserable state. It is just like the parents of a drug addict blaming the friends, police and government for not doing enough to curb the drug menace. We simply deny that we are also part of the problem. When it suits us the politicians are good and when it does not they are bad. Mario asks: Soter, While you are right that the citizens are ultimately to blame for electing and re-electing corrupt politicians, are you saying that it is the average citizens who are allowing the destruction being caused by open pit mines being left un-landscaped and un-rehabilitated after the useful ore has been extracted? Is it average citizens who are approving ugly building developments without regard to the surrounding ambiance, history and architecture? Is it average citizens who are allowing the Rahejas to run roughshod over the desires of the rest of the village? The citizens are responsible for electing legislators who they think will benefit them, and the legislators are then expected to exercise wise judgment and decision making in order to do so. If they do not they should be replaced at the next elections instead of being re-elected time and again. It only took ONE MAN's courage and vision to turn the mammoth Indian economy around after 50 years of going in the wrong direction. While he had help from others who believed as he did, they were unable to do what was necessary until he came along. That ONE MAN was Manmohan Singh, who is quiet and unassuming and the opposite of a chest-thumper. Neither does he throw stones at NRGs. In fact, he is doing everything he can to encourage whatever NRGs can do to help India, unlike a couple of stone-throwing chest-thumpers roaming around Goanet looking for NRGs to attack. Manmohan Singh is a great example of what ONE good politician can do. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:23:35 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com [Goanet] Our future meeting with Goa CM regarding tax sops Guys, I dont need to do this. I am quite comfortable in Bangalore. Mario responds: I know you don't. I know you are. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but I have included you in my commendations of those who are doing positive things for Goa. The only aspects of your approach I find deplorable are your wholesale and often incoherent personal attacks on NRGs other than yourself, who is also an NRG as you have admitted above, some of whom have done at least as much as you for Goa and others who are interested in doing more. At the very least, unless they are physically impeding something positive for Goa, leave them alone and mind your own business. They are not your adversaries, even though YOU have chosen to make them so. There is plenty for all the chest-thumpers to do in Goa, in case you haven't noticed. There is enough limelight for everyone. Tell Savio to contact someone like Victor Menezes who is an advisor to an investment group that invests in India: http://nsrpartners.com/team_victor_menezes.html
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:22:44 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com *A lie* well told and *repeated* constantly *becomes* a *truth* to credulous people. This is the tactic that Mario, a proponent of the only-NRGs can save Goa camp. Mario responds: Here what I said in the following post: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188522.html Quote: There are many good RGs doing their best and offering positive and constructive solutions for Goa, like Floriano and Venita for example. Unquote. Compare this comment with the false poppycock by Tony that I belong to some only-NRGs can save Goa camp. Actually, it is Tony who belongs to the two-person camp that only RGs can save Goa, as we can see from his following post, referring to NRGs: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188495.html Quote: But they forget, that it is we and only we that can effectively change what is happening in Goa. Unquote. Tony says, referring to RGs, we and only we. I think this shows that Tony should be re-named Pinocchio:-)) Actually, he should apologize for trying to impugn my integrity, and failing to do so. We'll see if he has the stones to do so, or whether we can expect to see more stones thrown at NRGs for trying to help we and only we. Tony wrote: We Goans are lotus eaters and we will never put down the bottomless glass of feni. Mario observes: Now we begin to see what Tony thinks of his fellow RGs and an indication of what he is capable of doing for Goa. Is it any wonder that Goa is in such a mess? Tony wrote: Arwin recognizes that RGs are also contributing towards Goa's progress. To blindly assert that only NRGs can change the ground situation in Goa by remote control is ridiculous. Mario observes: See what that bottomless glass of feni can do to a person? For one thing it makes it hard to understand the posts on Goanet, where I just showed where I had written, There are many good RGs doing their best and offering positive and constructive solutions for Goa, like Floriano and Venita for example. Tony missed this because he was so busy looking for his next stone to throw at NRGs. Other posts have shown that Rajan, George, Carmen, Arwin and Anil, among others, had made personal and very physical contributions to solving problems in Goa, and were not operating by remote control. Tony wrote: To blindly assert that only NRGs can change the ground situation in Goa by remote control is ridiculous. To believe that NRGs are our saviours borders on stupidity. Mario responds: Here we see that Tony is unable to comprehend who was sleeping at the wheel since 1987 while Goa was being turned into a bloody mess. Anyone who has been following these discussions know by now that numerous NRGs have not only done things for Goa but are looking to do more. In the meantime, Samir and Tony have taken it upon themselves to demonize ALL NRGs, including their citizenship and their motives and dismissing NRGs as some sort of interlopers when Tony says, But they forget, that it is we and only we that can effectively change what is happening in Goa. Here is what I wrote in the post referenced above: Quote: Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done. Unquote. Tony wrote: Will someone explain to him what I am trying to say in a few simple words? But then he believes that he is the only voice of truth. peace and sanity on Goanet. And a lie oft repeated etc, etc. Tragedy is he believes it himself. Mario responds: If Tony will put down his lotus and bottomless glass of feni long enough to read what I have written above, perhaps he will see why I remain the lone voice of reason, peace and truth on Goanet:-)) However, based on what he has written so far, I am not holding my breath:-)) In the following post we see a compilation of stones thrown at Carmen and Anil, with threats against Rajan, by Tony and his NRG friend who pretends to be an RG: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188400.html I wonder what his next stone, ...er, post, will look like:-))
Re: [Goanet] Citizenship issue...
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:21:42 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com This is typically the sarsaparilla that Gouveia specializes in. So parents, husbands, wives, relations who invest money or goods or services for their children/ spouses/ relations have half brains by the reckoning of the 'economist' from Jamshedpur's Tata Industries? Philanthropists who invest millions by this reasoning must be having atomic brains. Mario responds: We can see that Tony De Sa cannot even spell my name correctly. As the lone voice of reason, truth and peace, I am forced again to explain what I wrote to show that Tony is having a hard time following the conversation:-)) Tony previously wrote, I am no economist I confess, but I suspect that this money was primarily sent to alleviate the lot of their families and not specifically to improve the economy of the State. Here is what I wrote in response to Tony's bizarre notion that people invest their money specifically to improve the economy of the State: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/188852.html Quote: No one with more than half a brain works hard and invests money primarily for someone else's benefit. When people help themselves economically, they automatically help others around them when the money is spent on purchases and starts circulating in the economy. Unquote. Obviously when parents, husbands, wives, relations who invest money or goods or services for their children/ spouses/ relations they are investing primarily for the benefit of their own family and not specifically to improve the economy of the State, as Tony wants NRGs to do. Only those with half a brain would invest specifically to improve the economy of the State. I wonder if Tony can grasp the difference. I wonder who he is talking about from Jamshedpur's Tata Industries. Must be like that Goan from Toledo. It's those pesky facts again that Tony has a problem with. Tony wrote: Philanthropists who invest millions by this reasoning must be having atomic brains. Mario responds: Once again I will be glad to teach Tony how this works:-)) Most American philanthropists like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were not born wealthy, i.e they did not have enough money to be philanthropists. They later became wildly successful in their businesses, investing for themselves, not for others. Once they had more money than they knew what to do with, they started giving money away to help others, i.e. became philanthropists. They never invested for others because not too long ago, they had no idea they would have so much money even for themselves. Tony wrote: Bull sh1t Kitem re mario? Bezo fry zala, kitem? Mario observes: I think this gives us all an insight into the kind of half-baked thinking we are dealing with here who joined Samir in launching a furious assault not on the corruption that is responsible for the real mess in Goa but on NRGs trying to help.
[Goanet] Oh, Oh! World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6991177.ece Excerpts: Two years ago the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a benchmark report that was claimed to incorporate the latest and most detailed research into the impact of global warming. A central claim was the world's glaciers were melting so fast that those in the Himalayas could vanish by 2035. In the past few days the scientists behind the warning have admitted that it was based on a news story in the New Scientist, a popular science journal, published eight years before the IPCC's 2007 report. It has also emerged that the New Scientist report was itself based on a short telephone interview with Syed Hasnain, a little-known Indian scientist then based at Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi. Hasnain has since admitted that the claim was speculation and was not supported by any formal research. If confirmed it would be one of the most serious failures yet seen in climate research. The IPCC was set up precisely to ensure that world leaders had the best possible scientific advice on climate change. Professor Murari Lal, who oversaw the chapter on glaciers in the IPCC report, said he would recommend that the claim about glaciers be dropped: If Hasnain says officially that he never asserted this, or that it is a wrong presumption, than I will recommend that the assertion about Himalayan glaciers be removed from future IPCC assessments. [end of excerpt]
Re: [Goanet] The Reproductive Rights of Women
Venita Coelho wrote: If we now recognize that a woman is not the property of a man, then the choice of whether to carry a child in her body or not is also hers. If we recognise that the state has no business interfering in the private matter of personal reproduction, then the choice is a woman's alone. And it is high time we recognized that religion has no business imposing its choices on the body of a woman. Conceiving a child and holding it in your body is a deeply intimate meaningful thing that only a woman can understand. And only a woman knows what a deep sense of sadness and loss she will then carry when she has made her choice. But the choice is hers and hers alone. The decision of whether to bear a child or not is best left to the conscience of the mother. Mario observes: This dilemma has nothing to do with the property rights of a man, though he certainly has a moral right to a fetus he has helped create. While the legal systems in all the secular countries generally accept the heinous and cold-blooded sophistry of the reproductive rights of a woman, the same legal systems would deny various other rights that the same woman may choose to exercise with the same body we are talking about here. For example, ingesting hallucinogenic drugs or selling her body for sex. Venita's stirring and one-sided assertion of the rights of a woman ignores the rights of the living human fetus which will be trampled on without permission. While a woman has every right to decide whether she wants to become pregnant or not, it should get a lot more complicated for thinking human beings who are not slaves to self-serving sophistry and ideology once the woman does become pregnant, whether unintentionally or not. It has been established by society based on certain self-serving criteria that there is a period of time before an embryo formed at conception is considered a human person for secular legal purposes. Thus an abortion before that thresh-hold is not considered murder for legal purposes. However, there is no question that the embryo is a human life from the moment of conception and not a tissue mass that can be discarded in the thrash without compunction. Unlike just a few years ago, DNA science today can distinguish with 100% certainty between a human embryo, the embryo of some other species, and a non-living thing. Unlike a tissue mass which remains a tissue mass, under normal circumstances the human embryo quickly becomes a human being and eventually a human person no matter how that is defined. Unless there is a serious medical question as to whether the mother's health would be in jeopardy, when the mother and father must make a painful decision as to whether to risk her far more developed life or not, the option of adoption should be considered FIRST as a win-win solution in the case of an unwanted pregnancy. Mother Theresa's Missionaries of Charity, among other organizations, are ready to help in such situations.
Re: [Goanet] Citizenship issue...
I. Nunes comments: Re: [Goanet] Citizenship issue... NRG's remittances account (conservatively) for upwards of 6% of Goa's GDP. Which is why RGs are encouraged to seek outside employment Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:06:54 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Enterprising chaps these NRGs. I am no economist I confess, but I suspect that this money was primarily sent to alleviate the lot of their families and not specifically to improve the economy of the State. That is a side effect. They were only helping themselves. If in turn the economy was helped, they deserve my appreciation and approbation, Haven't I been shouting from the rooftops that NRGs who translate their love for Goa into action and not merely give bad free advice are the salt of the earth? Mario observes: Because you are not an economist let me inform you that the intentions of the sender of the money does not matter. It is the money that matters to Goa's economy. No one with more than half a brain works hard and invests money primarily for someone else's benefit. When people help themselves economically, they automatically help others around them when the money is spent on purchases and starts circulating in the economy. The most productive economies are those where millions of private citizens all do what's best for themselves economically. This automatically includes using wisdom and common sense in dealing with others and helping others to help themselves and also helping those who cannot help themselves with private charity. This is all good for business without a single bureaucrat getting in the way. Corruption between politicians and bureaucrats and unethical businessmen violates the basic principles of free enterprise because it interferes with the free, uncoerced choices and decisions that make free enterprise systems so efficient and productive. Tony wrote: But you guys have turned this debate into a game of lastwordism and oneupmanship! Let us not clutter cyberspace with keyboard-diahorrea. Mario responds: Actually, by joining Samir in demonizing NRGs trying to help Goa you are one of the culprits. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. - Thomas Paine.
[Goanet] Big builders mould pliant Panchayats
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:19:11 +0800 From: A C Fernandes gscc...@gmail.com From corrupt, greedy and dodgy Panchayat members from Carmona to Chicalim to Cansaulim, to the Town and Country Planning Department which is on a merry course to approve these mega-projects and construction projects, to of course the biggest goons, thugs and thieves that masquerade as our Goan Politicians and MLAS, while selling Goans and our Goan Villages to further their vested interests and that of their patrons namely the Builders there seems to be no end in sight. From: Herald's Editorial January 15th. Big builders mould pliant panchayats Excerpt: That the TCP has fallen foul of the law is evident, not just in this project but in so many others. Its record in cases filed in the High Court stands testimony. But however much the Rahejas may have got the Panchayat and the TCP wrapped around their little finger, they still have to reckon with the people. And activists from Carmona have now resolved to knock the doors of the judiciary to challenge the decision of the village Panchayat approving Raheja's plan for sub-division of plots. More power to them; may the people of the village continue to stand strongly by their side. [end of excerpt] Mario responds: Memo to Tony D'Sa Samir Kelekar Here is an illustration of a REAL problem going on right under your RG noses that can be addressed before it is too late. Instead of wasting your time throwing stones at NRGs, perhaps you can go help these local villagers get organized. Take Floriano and Venita with you and Joe to take pictures.
[Goanet] Dinesh D'Souza
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca I picked up this article from The Goan Voice, UK. It mentions stuff about the most embarrassing (to me) Goan in the USA. Warning: This is not for the feint of heart. This is also a primer on how far a person can go in the good ol' USA when he is extreme right-wing. http://www.alternet.org/workplace/145181/do_obama_and_geithner_have_the_same_flaw:_accommodation_instead_of_moral_action/ Mario responds: Talk about embarrassing Goans overseas. Whether you agree with Dinesh D'Souza's opinions or political philosophy or not, shown below are some of his accomplishments in America. Keep these accomplishments in mind when you read Mervyn's posted article where the author, Mark Ames, writes, Quote: The Dartmouth Review's editor at that time was Dinesh D'Souza, an Indian immigrant eager to play the suck-up waterboy to the university's white rightwing elite -- even if that meant being their dark-skinned face of elitist white racism. Under D'Souza's editorship, the Review not only attacked the very same affirmative action that helped D'Souza get into Dartmouth,... Unquote. Ooooh! Suck-up waterboy? Dark-skinned face of elitist white racism? affirmative action helped D'Souza get into Dartmouth? Quite a dispassionate and objective observer this Mark Ames, isn't he? Now compare this with what others have said about Dinesh D'Souza: http://www.dineshdsouza.com/more/about.html Excerpt: D'Souza has been called one of the top young public-policy makers in the country by Investor’s Business Daily. The New York Times Magazine named him one of America's most influential conservative thinkers. The World Affairs Council lists him as one of the nation's 500 leading authorities on international issues. Newsweek cited him as one of the country's most prominent Asian Americans. A former policy analyst in the Reagan White House, D'Souza also served as John M. Olin Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and the Robert and Karen Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. He graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Dartmouth College in 1983. [end of excerpt] Dinesh is a member of the Phi Beta Kappa honor society. Members are elected based on academic excellence. From the society web site, You must be elected to membership in Phi Beta Kappa by the chapter where you received your bachelor's, master's, or Ph.D. degree. We must receive confirmation from the chapter before you can be registered as a member of the Society. Here is what the ancient Honor Society, Phi Beta Kappa, founded in 1776, means which includes Bill Clinton among its members: http://www.pbk.org/infoview/PBK_InfoView.aspx?t=id=8 Here is some information about the members of Phi Beta Kappa: http://www.pbk.org/infoview/PBK_InfoView.aspx?t=id=59 Excerpt: Seventeen U.S. Presidents, thirty-eight U.S. Supreme Court Justices, and one hundred and thirty-six Nobel laureates can be counted among the ranks of Phi Beta Kappa members. [end of excerpt] Mervyn is correct. With accomplishments like these, every Goan should be embarrassed that Dinesh D'Souza is a Goan. And Mark Ames says that Dinesh is a Suck-up waterboy, Dark-skinned face of elitist white racism who needed affirmative action to get into Dartmouth. I don't think either Mervyn or Mark Ames like Dinesh, do you? Here is an interesting snippet from Mark Ames biography: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mark_ames/profile.html Excerpts: A native son of the California suburbs, Mark graduated from UC Berkeley with a degree in Rhetoric. He quickly discovered that the wretched post-Reagan world was no place to spend a life, so he fled to the chaos of post-Soviet Russia, a culture far freer in all the important ways than pious, cheerless America. After a few failed stints in Russia’s perilous business world, first as a liquor distributor and later as the personal secretary to an Indian beer magnate, Ames moved into journalism. In 1997, he founded The eXile, which CNN described as “brazen, irreverent, immodest, and rude, adding that it lampooned and investigated greed, corruption, cowardice and complacency”. [end of excerpt]
[Goanet] Motives V. Opinions, Problems V. Issues, (Was, Indian media ignores Goan's murder in Britian)
Eddie writes: Response: Yes, your motives! Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 23:56:26 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com My motive are clear, open and announced publicly on the net. To me, your motherland cannot be compared to anything else. It is your mother after all, however poor, famished she is. You cant replace your mother by say USA. Mario responds: This is not a motive. It's a confused opinion. Here's why. Staying with the maternal analogy, if your birth mother becomes out of control and co-opted by corrupt forces that abuse you, as an adult you can choose to leave, even though she remains your mother. Samir wrote: The problem with NRGs is that they have failed to take ownership for their mother. Mario observes: To begin with, as a resident of Karnataka, you, too, are one of these NRGs. Leaving that aside, it is the RGs that allowed their mother Goa to be co-opted by corrupt forces while they were asleep at the switch. Samir writes: Also, venting all one's ire on non-Goans who come to Goa to barely make a living is not compassionate to say the least. One needs to come up with better solutions than just clean up the place and throw non-Goans out. Mario asks: Does this address the biggest problems in Goa? Correct me if I'm wrong, but are those barely making a living in Goa members of the unholy alliance between corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests? I don't think so. How many mines are they running? How many ugly building developments are they sponsoring? How many municipalities are they administering? How many Village Panchayats have they been elected to? Samir wrote: For instance, one solution that was proposed on this forum was to make Konkani compulsory for govt. jobs. At least, this will solve part of the problem. Why isnt there a groundswell of support for the above? Mario observes: I'm guessing because it does not even address the primary problem in Goa, which is the unholy alliance mentioned above. Now, can we get back to Eddie's question about your motives in attacking foren NRGs instead of the corruption that is ruining Goa? I still haven't figured out what these are.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com They become NRGs with superior powers of preaching to RGs. They can tell us the State is going to the dogs and a few bitches too and blah, blah, blah Mario asks: NRGs have to tell you this? Don't you live in Goa? Can't you see for yourself? Don't you hear the barking? No wonder Goa is going to the canines. Tony writes: Where the rub comes is that they are not prepared to come and show us by example. They say get rid of the 40 rotters I say how? Mario responds: Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil are all trying to show you, but you need to put down that bottomless glass of feni first, and realize that Goa is now under the control of the canines. Get rid of at least a few rotters the same way you stopped the worst of the CRZ's - by getting up from your siesta, organizing the people, and electing honest politicians. Nothing much is going to happen unless you can rock the boat.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Gabriel wrote: I have bought and sold property in London, Gold Coast and Melbourne. So have other Goans, Malyasians, Chinese and Vietnamese and other non-white people, resident or non-resident, citizens or non-citizens. There are no WASP-only localities -the first time I have heard it mentioned, was by you. Blah blah. Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 23:02:31 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Halleluja, I am saved. I am convinced. The pro-west chest thumpers have finally made me see the light of the day. *There is no racial prejudice in the West or Australia* Also read the posts of Mario G in similar vein. Mario observes: Tony, Your halleluja may be premature. You haven't been saved from anything yet as we continue to inform you about things you see mis-informed about. For example, your latest poppycock is a gross misrepresentation of what Gabriel and I have written and taken totally out of context. Gabriel and I were responding to your previous poppycock about foreign immigrants being unable to live and buy property anywhere in Australia or the US. Both Gabriel and I explained that we could buy properties wherever we could afford them without having to worry about being foreign immigrants. I don't recall anyone talking about no racial prejudice in the West and Australia. There are stupid and prejudiced people in all countries, including Goa. Tony wrote: But then can someone explain to me why so many Indian students in Australia are being abused and killed, or so many Indian students being killed in good ole U S of A? or the 'dots' group that killed Indians because they wore bindis? Or Canadian children of Goan origin who call their parents PAKIs (I have actually witnessed this) Why is the term PAKI derogatory? Why if you are dark skinned and spout Spanish you are likely to be called a 'SPIC? A lot of Goans could be classified as spics. Mario observes: People are being killed by common criminals everywhere. No one is focusing on Indians who may be victims from time to time. Paki is a short form for Pakistani. The kids of your Canadian friends are simply disrespectful spoiled brats. Blacks were called niggers and whites are called honkies. Calling someone of a different background or race names is no different than Goans calling non-Goans bhaile and ghantis, etc. Like I said above there are a few stupid and prejudiced people everywhere, including Goa. You and Samir are obviously prejudiced against NRGs. This has nothing to do with were we can live or buy property, which was your original false charge. I wonder what you will try to use next. In the meantime, unlike the developed countries that Tony is obsessed about, Goa is going to the proverbial dogs, while a couple of RGs are busy attacking NRGs.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 12:24:28 -0800 (PST) From: lyrawmn lyra...@yahoo.com After having in effect ceded control of North Goa to white foreigners who actively and overtly discriminate against native Goans and Indians as publicized, what does that say of the status quo in Goa, Mr. D'Sa? Mario observes: Oh, I get it. Those WASP-only areas where Indians are not allowed to buy homes are actually in Goa!
[Goanet] Another Indian taxi driver beaten, abused in Australia
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:56:31 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/another_indian_taxi_driver_beaten_abused_in_australia.php Viva Australia! Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 12:37:48 +1100 From: Salus Correia saluscorr...@gmail.com [Goanet] Aussies killed in India Today I just saw a news article in the local paper and would like to share it with you all. Click on this link to access the article. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/no-justice-with-aussie-deaths/story-e6frf7l6-1225820411665 Can anyone enlighten us as to what happened to the recent Scarlett murder case? Or the older case where the Australian missionaries were torched while they were resting in their jeep? Is there a justice system that works in India? This is a national shame. Mario observes: I see Samir seems determined to illustrate the mess in India when his stones bounce back to his own glass house.
Re: [Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: lyrawmn lyra...@yahoo.com Some well meaning NRGs in their eagerness to help are attempting to reinvent the environmental arena. RE: What are we waiting for posts? Mario responds: You are correct. Because I believe their heart is in the right place, I have tried to gently re-orient such efforts towards the primary problem in Goa, the unholy alliance of corrupt politicians and corrupt business interests. If that unholy alliance cannot be disrupted, then little else will be achieved. lyrawmn wrote: At present the many RG activists have been the foot soldiers at the forefront not least of all brave Goans villagers battling special interests in face of threats, intimidation, litigation costs, time, etc. Nandkumar Kamat has been at his quest for over 20 years. Mario responds: Kudos to all RGs who are involved in such attempts. Those RGs who are truly interested in turning things around in Goa welcome the NRGs who are interested in the same thing, rather that the couple who were seen throwing stones from their glass houses.
Re: [Goanet] Only in America
Mario wrote: IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 1. A JOB, 2. A DRIVERS LICENSE, 3. SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, 4. WELFARE, 5. FOOD STAMPS, 6. CREDIT CARDS, 7. SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, 8. FREE EDUCATION, 9. FREE HEALTH CARE, 10. A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON 11. BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE 12. THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T GET ENOUGH RESPECT 13. A LAWYER TO DEFEND YOU AT NO COST TO YOU 14. AND, IN SOME INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD WHAT AMERICA IS LIKE:-)) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:21:40 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Great for the carpet beggars (pun intended). Make hay while the eclipse shines. Lage rahe do Mario Bhai Mario responds: Hey, Tony, You are very welcome. Perhaps if you take advantage of these facilities yourself you may forget the John Wayne movies and Pravda reports you have been citing, and pick up some ideas that you can use in Goa:-))
Re: [Goanet] 10 Small Ways to Make the World a Better Place - Stepcase Lifehack
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 05:44:02 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com Nice list! Specially: * Compliment someone * Give someone a book you?ve read * Send a letter, email, tweet, or text message out of the blue * Teach someone how to do something * Let someone shine * Connect like minds And the reasons for doing this are particularly well explained! Mario responds: Looking through this list this is precisely what I have been trying to do the last few days: * Complimenting all those who spend their personal time and money for Goa, whether RGs or NRGs. * Sending several emails out of the blue:-)) * Teaching a couple of irritable RG's that NRGs are not the problem in Goa. * Letting the NRGs like Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, George and Anil who are spending their personal time and money shine - as well as the RGs who do the same like Samir, Floriano and Venita. If I haven't mentioned others who are deserving it's because they are not on my radar screen. Sorry. * Connecting like minds! Boy am I trying to connect like minds by trying my darndest to get the irritable RGs to see that the common enemy is corruption in Goa and not the NRGs who may be stealing some of their thunder. But they have had their chance and Goa is getting worse. It's time to call in the Cavalry:-)) Lead, follow, or get out of the way. - Thomas Paine.
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter
Tony D'Sa wrote: That may be. But you black skinned American/ Britisher/ Australian/ Canadian just try buying property in a WASP only locality. Racial prejudice may not be overt but it is still there. You are still a 'second class' citizen no matter how you console yourself. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:55:58 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com For me, even more than the above, what is important --- what have you done as a citizen in your adopted country? Have you fought injustice? Or did you just grab the opportunities that those countries provided to you as a citizen? Mario responds: A lot. Yes. No. Besides, Tony's statement above is provably false when applied to America. Residents of the other countries can speak for themselves. Samir wrote: I am sure there are NRGs who have been conscientious citizens of their own adopted countries and have contributed to change in their adopted countries; and I am also sure they will not talk of disparingly of Goa and India, because they know what it takes. Mario observes: I disagree. To not disparage corruption is to accept it. To not criticize the vast improvements that need to be made in India and Goa MOST OF WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BEING ADDRESSED BY THE LOCAL RESIDENTS would be doing a great dis-service to India and Goa. Do you think the pictures by Rajan and Joe were shot in a film studio? Being IT specialists and suppliers of low cost goods and services contracted by and designed in the developed countries is hardly enough, though it's a good first step. Harming India and Goa is the bribery and corruption and even goonda-giri at all levels, rampant tax cheating, civic carelessness and public behavior that is rarely seen in any developed country, and if seen is roundly condemned if not prosecuted and the culprits brought to justice. No one in a leadership position is addressing any of these issues as far as I can see anywhere in India. In Goa, everyone is scared of the goonda-politicians. I have personal knowledge of at least one of them brazenly helping a crony steal ancestral property in my own village in Goa by using forged documents to transfer interest in the title to the property and then threatening the relatives to keep quiet or risk physical harm. How else do you think Goa has become such a mess? What good is a legal system when they can intimidate people to be quiet? Pointing fingers outward and trying to disparage those NRGs who are trying to help, VOLUNTARILY, AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE IN TIME AND MONEY, does NOTHING to help either India or Goa. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. - attributed to Edmund Burke but never found in his writings.
[Goanet] Citizenship issue --- what IQ these people have?
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:15:13 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Even a kid knows that citizenship is the only thing that decides political rights in a country. These guys must have real idiotic level IQ to think that they can make any political difference in any country leave alone India without having its citizenship. Mario responds: Perhaps Samir is correct about the kids. Unfortunately, we are all adults here, so we don't know that citizenship is critical in a place like India or Goa FOR PEOPLE OF iNDIAN ORIGIN. For example, what has having voting rights done for Goa? Elected and re-elected corrupt politicians and watched, glass of feni in hand, while the place went to hell. I rest my case. If I had access to Bill Gates' checkbook I could literally bribe Goa into becoming like heaven on earth. But Samir's bringing IQ into the discussion got my IQ thinking, Hmmmn, who has the higher IQ - some snotty and irritable RG who does LITTLE OR NOTHING about the growing mess in India and yet throws stones at NRGs who are trying to DO SOMETHING, or the NRGs who are coming from afar AT THEIR OWN TIME AND EXPENSE to try and wake up these RGs and MOTIVATE THEM to DO SOMETHING. After much prayer and fasting and deep meditation, not to mention exhaustive research, which, with my IQ took about three minutes, I came to the following conclusions. Make up your own minds as to where you fit. IQ OF RG'S WHO ONLY THROW STONES AT NRG INTERLOPERS: 85 IQ OF RG'S WHO DO NOTHING: 100 IQ OF RG'S WHO DO SOMETHING AND THROW STONES AT NRG INTERLOPERS: 120 IQ OF I CAN DO SOMETHING RG'S AND NRG'S: 150 IQ OF NRG'S WHO DO NOTHING: SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 100 AND 150 BY COMPARISON: IQ OF ALBERT EINSTEIN: 185 IQ OF STEVEN HAWKING: 200 IQ OF JOHANN VON GOETHE: 210 IQ OF LEONARDO DA VINCI: 220 IQ OF MARILYN VOS SAVANT: 228
[Goanet] The goan connection to the US president (was Poor American)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:46:38 -0800 (PST) From: marlon menezes goa...@yahoo.com There is a Goan connection to the current American president. Fitz D'souza (http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-April/176250.html) , in a story told to me at this year's New Year's eve party at his house in Bambolim, told me that he was one of three on the committee who decided on the scholarship application of Barack's father to come to the US. Good or bad, the rest is history. Mario responds: Good for America's mortal enemies. Bad for everyone else. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/12/obama-approval-rating-hits-new-low-latest-national-opinion-poll/ Excerpt: President Obama's job approval rating has hit a new low, according to the latest national opinion poll released Monday. [end of excerpt] I wonder if Mr. Fitz D'Souza can find me George Obama's address so I can help him out since his affluent brother apparently refuses to do so. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/01/31/george.obama.arrest/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html http://shapblog40.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/article09obama-brother-2010/
Re: [Goanet] fool's paradise
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:50:39 -0500 From: J. Colaco jc cola...@gmail.com c: Should I just drink carrot juice every day and hope that nothing bad happens to me? Mario observes: The subject line reminded me of this. I wonder how many people are aware of this but a scientific study conducted recently showed that some 85% of people who died during the study period had eaten carrots during the previous 90 days. The authors of the study recommended that carrots be banned as a health hazard. The study is currently being peer reviewed and under serious consideration by Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri for UN action now that the earth has taken a hiatus from global warming:-))
Re: [Goanet] Poor American
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca Thanks to the policies of George Bush (43) and co, for the past eight years, the US has been importing more than it exports. It now has no money to pay for its imports and is surviving only by printing?more. The?cost of?this madness is that the US dollar has lost about 18% of its value?during this period. Mario responds: To begin with, here is what is happening under President Obama's policies: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126330289707626093.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection Anyway, thanks for helping me win a bet that we would hear from you on this subject with the same tired old poppycock about President Bush - this time blaming his policies for something the US has always done, before Bush and since, i.e. extend its foreign aid by helping poorer countries by buying their products. Most of China's vaunted foreign exchange reserves come from US imports, and the recession in the US that President Obama is working very hard to worsen, is causing all kinds of problems of overcapacity in China. Mervyn wrote: Secondly, people in the US are buying foreign goods because the few manufacturers that are left are producing goods that US residents do not want. For example, US residents prefer to buy foreign cars rather than US ones as: 1) Foreign cars are more dependable and 2) They have better fuel economy than US made ones. Mario responds: LOL! I wonder where Mervyn gets his information from. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,465005,00.html Most of the foreign cars sold in the US are made by foreign car manufacturers in the USA. Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mitsubishi, Mercedes-Benz, Subaru, Nissan and Hyundai all have manufacturing plants in the USA. The manufacturing plants of foreign companies in the USA create more well paying jobs in the US than the lower paying jobs that are outsourced to foreign countries under America's relatively free trade policies.
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Mario Goveia wrote: Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:42:45 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com No all NRGs are not a problem - only those who think most self-conceitedly that they are the repositories of sanity and wisdom, blah, blah, blah on Goanet and strew their free advice freely. Mario responds: Tony, you are not getting it. To begin with, I did not say you said that all NRGs are a problem. You and Samir apparently think the NRGs who are trying to help Goa are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa. If you RGs knew what the heck you were doing, we would not even be having this discussion. All NRGs could have come to Goa and had a good time, which I still do, instead of wasting their time and energy and money like Rajan, Carmen, George, Arwin, etc. Tony wrote: If we RGs are wasting our energy and time, isn't that our business and prerogative? What is the NRGs perception of what needs to be done is not necessarily our perception. Mario responds: Yes, it is your prerogative to go back to sleep and allow the mess to grow. On the other hand, it is the prerogative of the NRGs who are motivated to try and help change things for the better, sometimes based on their experiences in countries that are much better managed, sometimes by simply using common sense that seems to have eluded so many RGs. Tony wrote: And don't the NRGs contribute to a fair share of the corruption? Take the guy from his overseas home who comes on a two week holiday to Goa. He suddenly discovers that the old homestead is now worth a bundle and he needs to dispose of it! He is in a rush - so much to do, so little time. So he toodles off to his friendly Talathi/Panchayat Secretary/Mamlatdar and quietly slips him Rs. 10,000/- After all what is 200 odd Amriki dollars? Now who is promoting corruption. Mario responds: Are individuals selling their property the corruption that is making a mess in Goa, or what the buyers are then doing with the property, which is where you RGs have been asleep at the switch? Mario previously wrote: No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three foren NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other foren NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Tony replied: Do you selectively read posts? Haven't I commended doers like George Pinto in my previous post when I mentioned adnauseam that if you love Goa, translate your words into action and don't mealy mouth unwanted, condescending advice to the RGs. Unless NRGs have the power of the vote and in substantial quantity, voting patterns will follow traditional lines. We are the voters. Non-national NRGs cannot change this. Mario responds: So, I see that you selectively commend NRGs whom you like. I guess you think Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, Anil, etc. are spending their precious time and money because they don't love Goa, and just want to show the Goan peasants how smart they are. I don't think you know these people. No one who lives in foren wastes their time and money carelessly. But, you have finally put your finger on the problem. It is you RG voters who are the primary problem, which is what I have been saying all along. Nothing is going to seriously change until you stop electing and re-electing corrupt politicians. Even a few to start with would be good. Mario previously wrote: I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them back. Tony replied: Manmohan and Sonia are hardly NRIs in the context of this discussion? Pretty dumb if you think so. So also you prove my point that only RIs and RGs can make an effective change. Mario responds: Tony, let go of that bull's shempdi or you will hurt yourself:-)) The point I was making was that: a) India was a mess because of Nehru's socialist policies
[Goanet] Interesting story --- US citizen NRG
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:06:00 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Talking about corruption, there is this Goan friend of mine ( dont want to name him), who went to the US, made enough money, became a US citizen. He then returned to Goa/India, and wanted to start his own clinic in Goa. While discussing one day, we discussed about the Goan politicos and how they make big money. I specifically mentioned about Babush and his Regional Plan etc. This guy's immediate reaction was --- great, Babush is the right guy to connect to and be friends with to get land for his clinic. He in fact asked me --- why are you against Babush ? Mario observes: All this parable illustrates is one Goan friend of Samir, an anonymous crooked NRG, such a good friend that he is willing to share his crooked thoughts with Samir. This guy decided to get out of the US perhaps one step ahead of the law. Why? To become an RG and open a clinic in Goa illegally. Or why would he need Babush's help? So, if true, you have one more crooked RG to deal with. That's all Goa needs, isn't it? Samir wrote: I was appalled to hear his views. Sure, this guy may be an exception and I am not saying he is the rule, but I thought I'd mention this in the context of the discussion that only RG's contribute to corruption and not NRGs. Mario observes: The last time I checked, this discussion is not not about individual scroundrels but of the systemic corruption between RG politicians and dishonest RG businessmen in Goa which has messed up Goa right under the very noses of tens of thousands of RGs.
[Goanet] From one RG to another an open letter.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:18:35 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com 1. Each and every one of our RGs is a good-for-nothing waiting only for a hand out from the NRG brothers and sisters and waiting with an open mouth for the next visa to fall from their NRG relations. Mario responds: Poppycock. There are many good RGs doing their best and offering positive and constructive solutions for Goa, like Floriano and Venita for example. Unfortunately, there are also some RG and deshi NRG chest-thumpers who have decided that foren NRGs are a bigger problem than the corruption and mess in Goa, who are completely wasting their time and energy and deflecting attention from what needs to be done. Tony writes: 2. Goa is a mess and that we are incapable of doing anything about it. But they forget, that it is we and only we that can effectively change what is happening in Goa. They can only preach and give us advice which is based on their own frame of reference which no longer holds validity in the reality of Goa today. Mario responds: Yes and no. Yes, it is true that you RGs and deshi NRGs have shown yourselves incapable of doing anything about the mess in Goa. If you had been capable, we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we? No, it is not true that only RGs can do something about it as George Pinto and Rajan Parrikar and Anil Desai, three foren NRGs, have already demonstrated by their stellar work in Goa. Other foren NRG's like Arwin Mesquita are confronting Goan legislators and Carmen Miranda is trying to light a fire under local RGs. All this at remarkable personal cost in terms of time and money. Yes, we can give you advice based on what we have seen work in other countries, which is mostly based on common sense. No, you are wrong that it does not hold validity in the reality of Goa today, assuming that there is still something called common sense left in Goa. I'll give you an example based on the reality of India. India was going nowhere during its first 50 years since Independence. Corruption and waste at all levels was rampant and Indians were draining at an alarming rate to the benefit of other countries. Then suddenly the founding families were gone and common sense began to assert itself in the form of new leadership like Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, who doesn't get enough credit in my opinion for exerting tremendous positive leadership while knowing when to grab the limelight and when to step back and let others get the limelight. Look at the difference this has made to India's economy in just a few years even with the old line communists in their coalition trying desperately to drag them backwards. Tony wrote: America has no corruption? Nor Britain, nor France, nor Germany, nor Australia? So you my dear NRG friends will have me and my other gullible brothers believe that these countries are pristine. Of course you have corruption but it is guised in a semblance of legality like the CEO of a company (I think it was Lehman Bros) who took millions just to liquidate the company. Mario responds: There is corruption from time to time in the countries you have listed. The difference you seem to be missing is that, in the west, when corruption is found the perpetrators are prosecuted and brought to justice. Taking millions just to liquidate a company may look corrupt to you, but if it was done legally, it could not correctly be described as corrupt in proper context. Tony wrote: What about the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki even when the Americans knew that the Japanese were losing the war - Mario responds: This is a false description of what happened. It was Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese leadership who were responsible for the casualties at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese, who started the war for the US by bombing Pearl Harbor without warning, refused to surrender before and after the bombing of Hiroshima, and only surrendered after the second bombing of Nagasaki. Because of how the Japanese had fought before that, the estimates of the casualties on the Allied side to finish the war by physically attacking Japan was considered too high. In a war the objective is to kill the enemy while minimizing casualties among your own people. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki brought a brutal four year war to a screeching halt in just four days, unfortunately at an estimated cost of some 200,000 enemy casualties, all of which could have been avoided if the Japanese had surrendered before then. Tony wrote: 4. We can only be saved by the advice rather the 'pontificating' of some NRGs from their comfort zones. Mario responds: If the RG's wake up and start doing something tangible, all the NRGs can can happily go back to their comfort zones. I'm sure Rajan, Carmen, Arwin, et. al. have other good uses for their time. Tony wrote: 5. Please don't call foren Goans 'bootlickers' it hurts their
[Goanet] Only in America
IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR. IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY. IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT. IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED. IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN. IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED. IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT. IF YOU CROSS THE MEXICAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GO TO FEDERAL PRISON FOR TWO YEARS. IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 1. A JOB, 2. A DRIVERS LICENSE, 3. SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, 4. WELFARE, 5. FOOD STAMPS, 6. CREDIT CARDS, 7. SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, 8. FREE EDUCATION, 9. FREE HEALTH CARE, 10. A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON 11. BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE 12. THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR COUNTRY’S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON’T GET ENOUGH RESPECT 13. A LAWYER TO DEFEND YOU AT NO COST TO YOU 14. AND, IN SOME INSTANCES, YOU CAN VOTE. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD WHAT AMERICA IS LIKE:-))
[Goanet] Poor American
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 22:15:14 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com There is a tendency among some Goans to look at America with rose tinted glasses. This little joke among one of the forwards I received will put things in the proper prespective. Poor Americans John Smith started the day early. having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6 am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:40:38 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA And finally came on Goanet, and posted how great America is! We all know what the real name of John Smith is. :-) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:57:42 +0530 From: floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com And instead of growing ulcers, he relaxed cause he had a good goan friend who had taught him the trick of being SUCEGAD:) Mario responds: This is so hilarious. Americans are buying all this stuff and Tony, Samir and Floriano have decided in their infinite lack of perspicacity that it is AMERICANS who can't find a good paying job in America and are therefore poor! LOL! Try selling all that stuff to poor people:-)) Samir forgot to add IT services from India to the list. Perhaps, affluent Karnatakan that he is, he is providing his services to those poor Americans for free:-)) Has any of these eminent economic analysts stopped to think where would these countries be without these purchases by Americans? This is precisely the beauty of America - we can buy stuff from anywhere we choose to:-)) And look what happens to China when the US economy slows down: http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/Industry/2009/09/10/150693.shtml
Re: [Goanet] Citizenship issue...
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:17:39 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com I think those who disagree with you have managed to derail your arguments by converting this into a debate over political rights. Mario observes: The only arguments by Samir that need to be derailed are those directed at fellow-Goans and not at the corruption in Goa. Fred wrote: It is very, very easy to split from, or divorce the woman/man you once loved, and to curse her/him for all perceived faults, real or imaginary. It's more difficult to live with a person's failings, well past the honeymoon period, and appreciate them for what they are, shortcomings and all. This, to me, is the relationship between expats (and RGs, and Tony called them in his very interesting post) and Goa! Mario observes: This comment ignores the mess that has been allowed to develop in Goa as well as the well-intentioned actions by Goan expats in trying to help Goa by waking up the locals, who went to sleep AGAIN after the successful uprising against the CRZs a few years ago. Fred wrote: The other point is that it is easy to grab a safety-boat to an island of prosperity and the 'better life', and then point to the vessel we have deserted as being a sinking ship. Mario responds: The last time I checked Goa is a sinking ship without a single NRG having a hand in sinking it. It doesn't seem to occur to Fred that the island of prosperity and the better life didn't get that way by random chance and may have some lessons that Goa can benefit from. Fred wrote: They got a highly subsidised education (in the 1970s, we believed it costed Rs 100,000 to build a single doctor) and then took their education and then sold it cheap to an affluent part of the world, which probably needs it the least. Mario responds: To begin with, we did not become affluent in the new world by selling ourselves cheap. Secondly, most of us emigrated because of the mindless socialism that seemed to have no end in dragging India down, until Manmohan came along, not because our new countries needed us. As it turns out the most welcoming and competitive of the immigrant countries, the USA, cannot function without us now. This is a resource that India could have had for nothing but decided to drive us away through stupid political policies. Regarding the subsidized education, most of us have repaid our debt and then some. Fred wrote: For me, someone deploying skills where it is most needed is more important than ethnic ties, accidents of birth, religion, or other such connects. Mario responds: Who gets to decide where someone's skills are the most needed? Fred wrote: Some of our expats believe they are doing a big favour to Goa and India by sending back money to their family and relatives. This is almost made to seem as if they are offering alms to Goa. Mineowners and hoteliers in tourism similarly point to the foreign exchange they earn for Goa; I think they are doing nobody a favour but just earning money for themselves and using it to meet their own, their extended family, or business needs... in either case. Mario responds: Karl Marx must be smiling in his mausoleum. Private businesses help the economy by helping themselves. No one starts a business with all the investment and risk this entails for Goa. These businesses are, in fact, doing a huge favor to those who are employed in their businesses. BTW, even Manmohan Singh acknowledges that the expats are doing Goa and India a huge favor because they could have found other uses for their money somewhere else in the world. NRGs send money to India when it suits them. Other than you, I haven't heard anyone else construe these cash flows as alms. Fred wrote: it would be even nicer if the expats could (i) work to improve their attitude to their original home, an unappreciated and kicked-in-the-you-know-where land which often gave them much in a way that made a crucial difference to their lives and (ii) try to share skills and be positive instead of making a self-fulfilling prophecy about how terrible the Third World situation really is. Mario responds: The ones who initially kicked India in the you-know-where were the colonists who exploited India. Thereafter, India was further kicked-in-the-you-know-where by the Fabian socialism of the Nehru family that wasted untold resources during India's first 50 years or so, until Manmohan imposed some common sense and reality on India. What Rajan and Anil have done is precisely to share their skills and be positive. What exactly is negative about the personal time and money they have spent fighting the system in Goa? The archives will show that the negativism in this debate was introduced by a couple of RGs, for no reason that I have been able to ascertain. The Third World situation is mostly the fault of the Third World's leaders who led their countries astray after gaining Independence from the colonists. India
[Goanet] Climate change politics being challenged by reality
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html Excerpts: The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world’s most eminent climate scientists. Their predictions – based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans – challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy’s most deeply cherished beliefs. The scientists’ predictions also undermine the standard climate computer models, which assert that the warming of the Earth since 1900 has been driven solely by man-made greenhouse gas emissions and will continue as long as carbon dioxide levels rise. They say that their research shows that much of the warming was caused by oceanic cycles when they were in a ‘warm mode’ as opposed to the present ‘cold mode’. This challenge to the widespread view that the planet is on the brink of an irreversible catastrophe is all the greater because the scientists could never be described as global warming ‘deniers’ or sceptics. However, both main British political parties continue to insist that the world is facing imminent disaster without drastic cuts in CO2. [end of excerpts]
[Goanet] Fascinating developments on Goanet
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:11:07 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Angry, who me? Says who? Goans who live abroad are not my targets but I am just trying to tell pontificating, holier-than-thou, Toledo (or Mississauga or Swindon or Lisbon or Melbourne)-is-better-than-Goa, you-country-yokels-haveto-learn, etc spouting NRGs to button up. Mario responds: Hey, Tony, calm down, man. We can all see that you are angry, perhaps have a tinge of a guilty conscience. If you locals had taken care of business all these years, Rajan and Carmen and Arwin wouldn't have to waste their time, now, would they? BTW, I still haven't found that mythical Goan in Toledo, even though I live close by. Tony wrote: Corrupt Politicians, you mean to insult our intelligence by telling us that America or Canada or US or wherever does not have them? Scurrilous business interests - they are absent in your adopted homeland? What have you done about them? Mario responds: Tony, I'm trying to focus your intelligence on the corruption and mess in Goa, and not on the NRGs who are trying to help. Unless you come here I cannot show you the difference, man. Yes, we have corrupt politicians and businessmen from time to time, but the difference is that when we find them we put them in jail and vote the political bums out when they do not perform. We do not keep re-electing them year in and year out. Just watch what we do with the Democrats in Congress in November of 2010. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 01:44:42 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Very good point indeed. What qualifies you to come to India and fight ? What have you done in your neighborhood --- your adopted land? As they say, charity begins at home. Those who have indeed something in their adopted land --- we can definitely learn from them. Mario responds: Not a good point at all because it is speculative and argumentative and has nothing to do with the corruption and mess in Goa. What qualifies us is our Goan DNA and our interest in Goa and the fact that the locals have allowed the place go to hell, so to speak. There are all kinds of things some of us have done in our adopted homes, where they mostly operate based on common sense. BTW, the USA would not be able to function today if you removed the entire Indian community. The Protestant work ethic has been replaced by the Indian work ethic. Too bad this could not have been used in India until recently, after Manmohanji started imposing some common sense in India. For example, in every community in America we have local Zoning Boards with elected members who scrutinize every new building project to make sure it is up to the legal standards set by local interests and fits within the existing ambiance, history, architecture, etc. If anything is passed that does not conform it can be challenged in court by any citizen. Homeowners must maintain their properties up to local standards. Open faced pit miners are required to rehab and landscape the property after they have extracted the ore. There are more trees in North America now than when the first European settlers came here, even though most building construction uses wood and vast forests had to be cleared so that crops could be planted. Why? Because more trees were planted than were cut down. Common sense. When you use a lot of wood you cannot keep cutting down trees without replacing them. You cannot just stop your vehicle and urinate or defecate by the side of the road. You cannot throw thrash in a public spaces. When you drive you have to display the utmost respect for the right of way of other drivers. When you see a stop sign, you must come to a complete stop and look both ways for cross traffic before proceeding, even if there is no cross traffic at the time. Samir wrote: Or are you being hypocrites ? While you do nothing for your adopted land, you come and tell Goans philosophy and how to lead their lives. Mario responds: This snotty comment is what we call a cheap shot in America - a petulant criticism that is not based on any known facts. It also proves how little Samir understands of what is going on. What the NRG activists like Rajan, Carmen and Arwin, among others, are doing has nothing to do with Goan philosophy and how any Goan leads their lives. It has everything to do with the unholy alliance between corrupt politicians and business interests that are ruining the ambiance and environment in Goa. With all your bloviating and bluster, Samir, one would think you would at least have grasped these basic facts by now. We have a saying in America that I would recommend very highly, Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
[Goanet] Sour grapes in Goa
Rajan Parrikar wrote: Furthermore, this work is ongoing, we expect to enlist young, energetic Panjim folks to the cause. It is remarkable how much influence an opportunistic American can wield in Goa if he wants to, when he wants to. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:22:01 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Which cause ? Iraq or Afghanistan ? Sure, in expectation of US citizenship, some able-bodied young Goans would be willing to join up to become bakaras. Mario responds: No, Iraq and Afghanistan are being dealt with by other Americans. Rajan was talking about Goa. Wouldn't it be great if he could motivate some able-bodied young Goans to start behaving like Americans to actually think of something other than themselves and DO something about the problems taking place in Goa? In addition to the problems in Goa, Rajan is now faced with protecting his flanks against some angry local Goans with guilty consciences. This same guilty conscience provokes some Indians to be hostile to countries like the US which has repeatedly gone to the assistance of oppressed citizens in other countries. Since WW-II, it has not been an Indian thing to help any foreign country other than as occasional police-wallahs with the UN which hasn't resolved a single significant international conflict so far. They tried to help in Sri Lanka but were forced to run away. Tens of thousands of innocent Indian citizens have been killed by jihadis. The rest breathe a sigh of relief and everything returns to normal in a few days, except for the families and friends of the stricken of course whose lives are scarred forever. I am also at a loss as to why someone who has actually created jobs in Karnataka which could have been created in Goa, would be demanding to know why similar jobs are not being created in Goa, then lashing out in incoherent fury and desperately trying to sabotage the work that some American and British and Gulf Goans are trying to do for Goa. Samir writes: Surely, it will show the I can attitude of Goans. Mario observes: If local Goans had an American I can attitude Goa would hardly be in such a mess now, would it? Let's not forget that Goa was turned over to the Goans in 1987. This all evolved right under their noses and we may be seeing some guilty consciences out there. Other than Floriano and Venita's analyses and suggestions, we have not seen a single local Goan step up to the plate to lead the effort to save Goa. The ones pushing for something to be done are all current residents of the Gulf, Britain or the US. Samir wrote: Viva Uncle Sam! Viva America!!! Mario observes: Darn right. Those with more than half a brain know that Britain, western and eastern Europe, Japan, S. Korea, Phillippines all owe their freedom and safety to Uncle Sam. Kosovo owes its independance to Uncle George. India's nuclear program was made respectable by Uncle George over the objections of the world. Uncle George also provided BILLIONS for the HIV/AIDS, TB and malaria fighting programs in much of Africa. Iraq and Afghanistan will owe their freedom and democracy to Uncle George, not the gawkers and fence-sitters cheering for the effort to fail. In Goa, Uncle Rajan, Aunty Carmen and Uncle Arwin seem to be leading the charge. If I burst their bubble from time to time it is only to get them to avoid chasing red bangadas and to focus on the primary problem. I can imagine how hard it has to be for them going back and forth at their own expense to try and wake up sussegad Goans who get angry at being disturbed from their siesta. Now, in addition to the political corruption in Goa, they have some local adversaries trying to gain some traction and notoriety at their expense. In the meantime the corrupt politicians and businessmen in Goa must be enjoying the spectacle of a couple of local Goan activists attacking their foreign counterparts.
[Goanet] Are NRG's the problem in Goa?
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 19:19:41 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Let us be very clear about it. Ghantis havent discarded their Indian citizenships, unlike some holier than though individuals on this forum. They ought to, and do have more rights than American citizens. Most important they can participate in the political process, and vote! Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:37:17 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Those who have opportunistically taken OCI (overseas citizenship of India --- and btw this is not dual citizenship, the constitution of India does not permit dual citizenship) --- just as they opportunistically discarded Indian citizenship --- be careful. Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 22:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com So, you are one more who have discarded your identity/citizenship in preferenec to greenbacks ? You dont deserve any political rights in Goa, and hence you would not have any. It is as plain and simple as that! Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 18:03:58 -0500 From: celinap celi...@mail.uri.edu The question is what is to be done now. Mario responds: Celina, You are absolutely right, but apparently to some, the problem in Goa is not the unholy alliance between corrupt politicians and business interests, foreign drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, but NRGs. We now have the comical spectacle of a fiery revolution not against the corruption in Goa but against those scroundrels amongst us Goans who have chosen to be non-Indian Goans:-)) The primary target is Rajan Parrikar, probably because Rajan has actually walked the talk and stuck his neck out and confronted some of the powers that be in Goa: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2010-January/187993.html It may come as a shock to all the British, Canadian, American, Australian and Swedish Goans, especially those who still maintain the sentimental pretense that they are Goans first, that you are all seen by some as interlopers in Goa and scoundrels for abandoning Goa. The irony of all this is too rich for me, who is no less proud of my Goan-Bhayya ancestry, but am now a proud American first. Pardon me for being less Goan than those who think they are more-Goan-than-thou and take themselves so seriously. Lighten up, folks. LOL! BTW, did India really renege on some promise to preserve this mythical Goan identity I keep hearing about? Didn't India give Goa back to the Goans in 1987 to do with as they wished after bringing Goa up to some semblance of a mid-20th Century Indian region with some modern physical infrastructure? Just asking. In the meantime, there are thousands of proud Goans, some of whom actually live in Goa, under whose very noses the current situation has evolved since 1987. Samir is correct that the OCI is not a dual citizenship, just a special form of visa conceived by my favorite Indian hero, the canny Manmohanji, to encourage some of those green bucks that Samir rails about but is not above accepting in return for his services, to filter back to India. When it comes to benefiting India, Manmohanji doesn't consider himself more-Indian-than-those-who-earn-green-bucks:-)) There's a lesson in his attitude that our more-Goan-than-thou chest-thumpers may want to consider. Now, back to Celina's question. What next, and, more importantly, by whom?
[Goanet] Double Standards in Western press
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:20:32 -0800 (PST) From: Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com The point of my post, was the Indian newspaper's witty and pointed message of the cartoon, (no pun intended) regarding the response of the Australian police, was taken as an affront by the Australian cabinet minister. No such luck when cartoons in the Western media distort and / or offend the ethnic or religious sensitivities of other groups / nationalities.? If one believes in freedom of the press, the minister should have stayed out of the reporting of a free-press. I guess we know when and where the shoe bites. Mario responds: This is a gross misrepresentation of the situation and the initial post as well. There was a double standard being used, but it was not by the Australians. To begin with, representing the Australian police as racists of the worst kind by using a Ku Klux Klan cartoon is hardly witty and pointed when there is no evidence that the attacks were based on race as we can see from the puerile explanation of the Mail Today editor. The cartoon was deliberately meant to offend and provoke the Australian Police who had already increased their efforts to prevent these attacks and were thus not ignoring them. Quote: People in India perceive these attacks as racist, because their children are being attacked and killed. So it's good if Australia is getting agitated. The more agitated they get, the harder they will work to improve the situation, he told the BBC. Unquote. Just because their children are being attacked how does this make the attacks racist? As Gabriel has shown, some were clearly not. Secondly, none of the officials in Australia who protested the deliberate and grossly offensive cartoon said the paper had no right to print it, i.e. did not use their official positions to impede freedom of speech in India. This is precisely why mentioning the Danish cartoons in the original post was in poor taste because in that case the Danish cartoonist WAS using his freedom of speech, whereas the reaction was mass rioting and arson across several Muslim countries that took the lives of over a hundred rioters in police firings to quell the riots. This is hardly comparable to the reactions in Australia, nor were the reactions by Muslim radicals an expression of free speech. In fact, four years after the cartoons were first published there was yet anothet attempt on the cartoonists life just a few days ago.
[Goanet] Fascinating developments on Goanet
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:29:32 +0530 From: Tony de Sa tonyde...@gmail.com Comments addressed to Carmen Miranda: What makes you think we are fighting a losing battle? Is your perception coloured by your Western 'comfort zone' glasses? If you want to do something good for Goa and Goans, then how about starting with the Goans who live in not so well appointed circumstances in your comfort zone? Other than that if you really want to do something for Goa, then we the natives of this place would appreciate it if you translated your words in to action. Well frankly if you don't care then why bring it up? Do you have statistics of how many Goans were 'forced' by circumstances to work abroad? My perception is that most Goans who migrated did so to better their lot. I reiterate, we Goans living in Goa do not want sermons from NRG's. We are perfectly capable of electing our own Government and taking our own decisions. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 06:46:21 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Response to Anil Desai with threats aimed at Rajan Parrikar: Take a good break, refresh yourself and be prepared for more. ?Let me tell you you have seen nothing yet. There is more to come. The only way opportunists like Rajan will gain respect is if they have the guts to take Indian citizenship. Why, Indian citizenship is no good for Rajan ? The white man's boots look better is it ? Rajan, the American boot licker, thorn on my side ? Give me a break man and talk sense. Now tell me what do you do there sitting in UK except perhaps increase your bank balance ? Why did you vamoos from Goa? The public would like to know. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. It is very clear that Rajan has adopted a hit and run technique, something which is very easy to do when someone is an American citizen. Any trouble in Goa and Rajan will not be seen around -- that is Rajan's plan. A PIL here or there does not count. We have to see what happens when this bloke comes in a bit of limelight (of course, other than abuse coming from his mouth) and really becomes a nuisance or a threat to the government. As of now, everything indicates that the bloke is going to scoot to America when the going gets tough. Mario observes: I am absolutely fascinated with this recent phenomenon on Goanet, where the primary targets of some angry local Goan activists are not the corrupt politicians and scurrilous business interests in Goa, but their fellow Goans who happen to live abroad, even Carmen and Rajan and Arwin, who only seem to want to help, with nothing in it for them that I can see. This probably goes a long way in explaining why Goa is in such a mess to begin with. Even Goa's fabled crabs must be cowering in their holes in embarrassment at being so upstaged:-)) Could there be some guilty consciences that are suddenly thrashing around to gain some traction after being asleep at the switch lo these many years since Goa was handed over the the Goans in 1987. In the meantime I plead guilty to all the charges against me. I grew up a Goan-Bhayya, and was always a lesser Goan-than-thou than the chest-thumpers. My freedom-fighter relatives did not live long enough for the pensions I keep hearing about. It never occurred to me to brazenly claim I was a SuperGoan like some who have also left Goa ostensibly to make a buck, but want us to ignore that little detail. I left India in search of those lousy greenbacks after Indira started putting ceilings on corporate salaries in India. I stayed away when I found to my delight that Americans are shamelessly consumerist and believe the good earth is far more rugged and sustainable if we could only get the elites who know what's good for everyone else better than they do, out of the way, politically speaking. In America, they actually do something about their problems folks, and some other country's problems as well, which infuriates some people. I think Samir is stuck in the John Wayne era:-)) Today, Indian-American boots must taste better than white man's boots, because Indian boots are in great demand among bootlickers:-)) I used to be an Indian first, when I had no choice, until India decided to screw me, and am now an American first. I do appreciate the good things about my ancestry and my homeland, without being weighed down by any debilitating sentimental baggage. I have invested some of my greenbacks in India because it suited me to do so. India has changed for the better since I left and Manmohanji began to impose some common sense on the place. I don't have the guts to become an Indian citizen. Sorry about that. When you are an American - the name ends in I can - you actually can do a lot as the old Soviet Union and Saddam found out the hard way. We're still working on the Taliban. If you don't like any of this, please sue me in the Hague:-))
[Goanet] Moderation of posts on GoaNet
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:25:28 -0500 From: manuel tavares duk...@bell.net Although I do not begrudge Mario of his right to air his views, he does not come up with any constructive ideas nor any concrete solutions to any of the problems currently affecting Goa but rather criticizes the efforts of people like Bosco who do and are committed to the welfare of Goa and Goans. Mario asks: Manuel, I have given many concrete solutions over the years to address the mess in Goa. The most recent one is for the local Goans to quit thumping their chests about being more-Goan-than-the-rest-of-us and decide what needs to be done and by whom. No one cares about your Goanese-ness, how proud you are to be born by chance, and how many jobs you all have created in Karnataka. Bloviating without concrete action only adds to the greenhouse gases that are causing the earth to cool since 1998. BTW, can you cite me an example where I have criticized Bosco on Goanet? If you are citing some other forum will you please post my complete comments in proper context? Can you also give us a couple of examples of what exactly you have done for Goa? Thanks.
[Goanet] Double Standards in Western press
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 16:32:38 -0800 (PST) From: Gilbert Lawrence gilbert2...@yahoo.com One of India's newspaper has a cartoon about Australians and their country goes berserk. See below: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8447465.stm Yet, when Western Press has a cartoon about Allah or religion, it is Freedom of Speech. Mario asks: I detect some confusion here about free speech and double standards. The suggestion is that it is somehow wrong for Australians to condemn as deeply offensive being depicted as racists in an Indian newspaper, but OK for the Indian newspaper to print a cartoon depicting the Australian police as racists. The controversy has arisen because Indians say the attacks on Indians is because of their race, whereas the Australians think the attacks are by common criminals and thugs and the race of the victims is not a factor. Obviously, no one knows for sure. The example used is the series of offensive Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, when the western media claimed the cartoons were an expression of free speech. This is not a good example. To begin with, the reaction to the Danish cartoon by Muslim radicals was deadly rioting in the streets of several Muslim countries, attacks and arson of Danish embassies and even property belonging to other Europeans, as well as attempts on the life of the Danish cartoonist as recently as last week. Over 100 people died in the riots and the police firings on the rioting crowds to quell the violence. The Muslim radicals who rioted in the streets and are still trying to kill the Danish cartoonist went far beyond any concept of free speech. As we say in America, Your right of free speech ends where it intersects with my skin or my property. In addition, inciting people to chaos and violence would violate the principle of free speech. So far, there are no reports of Australians rioting in the streets and burning the property of Indians over the Indian cartoon. In fact they are doing everything they can to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice. Secondly, I looked in vain in the BBC report for anyone claiming that the Indian newspaper did not have the right to publish the incendiary and incredibly offensive cartoon. All the Australians did, according to the report, was verbally condemn the cartoons as deeply offensive. Unless there is a double standard being used, the Indian paper had every right to publish the cartoon under their rights of editorial free speech, and the Australians likewise had every right to condemn the cartoons as part of their own right of free speech. My question is, would the students who were victims of violence in Australia have been any safer in India? Make up your own mind.
[Goanet] Is Goan Indian?
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:08:01 + From: Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com No matter how much I explain to you, you will never become xanno. Obvious reason being which place you were born in! Therefore xanno or no xanno, if born in Indian subcontinent, now, before or after, no atter what colour or creed or shape or size. You are _ _ _ _ _ (fill in) Mario observes: Not true, Cajetan, this Moidekar actually happens to be xanno, though we have no idea who he is. I see you, too, have been distracted by Samir's red bangadas. Where you were born is a matter of random chance you had no control over. The country you later choose to be a citizen of is a matter of informed and intelligent choice. In most case the informed and intelligent choice is to ratify the random chance. In many cases it is not. There are entire countries where almost all the citizens, except for small numbers of indigenous people, have an ancestry, now, before or after, from somewhere else. Perhaps you have heard of these countries which are Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA. Now, can we get back to the discussion about the growing mess in Goa and what to do about it?
[Goanet] What are we waiting for
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 11:32:44 + From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com Meanwhile I refuse to engage in fruitless debates, and wasting my time with a goanetter who still confuses DEVELOPMENT with the mindless and selfish consumerism of lifestyle in the USA. Mario observes: The debate becomes fruitless when emotions and illusions come face to face with reality. For example, why is the USA the magnet for most of the world's emigrants, and not the socialist havens of Cuba, Zimbabwe and Venezuela, or even old Europe, where sustainable consumerism is apparently taking place and happiness reigns? Secondly, who gets to decide what selfish consumerism even means, without a Mugabe, Chavez, Castro, Ortega, Jong Il or Morales deciding what it is? In the US we have traditionally left it up to the supply and demand decisions of millions of individual citizens. Thirdly, why is the USA even featured in a debate on Goa going to hell in a handbasket? Their consumerism and sustainability takes care of itself through their economic systems and election cycles. Besides, how is it any of your business? Carmen wrote: The question is what are we waiting for to get organised and focus on what is important now in Goa and for Goa's survival. What is the first step, what can the goans abroad do to help? Where is the alternative leadership in Goa? Who is ready to lead a popular movement for change? Mario observes: These questions make far more sense than questioning the consumerism of one country that is light years ahead of Goa in economic development while living in a third country that is now a shadow of what it once was. Carmen wrote: What is the significance of not getting any answers from goans in Goa to these questions? Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 04:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 04:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com It will help to do a survey of what Goans in Goa feel. Why they are not rising in revolt ? Mario observes: Finally, I see some rays of sunlight seeping through to the consciousness of these well-intentioned activists. THIS is where the emotions and the illusions come face to face with reality, don't they? What is the significance of not getting any answers from goans in Goa to these questions? Why are local Goans not rising up in revolt? Indeed. I, too, would like to know the real answers to these questions. But doesn't this fit perfectly with those elections and re-elections I have been writing about, which are the weighted average of what ALL Goans, not just the four or five angry activists we hear from on Goanet, really believe? Samir writes: Many of the people I know in Goa have their finger in some or the other construction related business. I hardly know any people in Goa who are in say IT. Mario observes: You own an IT company, Samir, in far-off Bengalooru. Would you be willing to open a branch in Goa instead of asking why others are not doing so? Samir wrote: It is one thing securing oneself in the US or elsewhere, creating bail out routes, and then shouting Save Goa. It is another thing facing day-to-day survival problems. Mario observes: I get the impression we are hearing from some bubble here. Does anyone find it incongrous that an accomplished entrepreneur like Samir started and operates his IT business in Bengalooru while wondering why others have not opened IT businesses in Goa? Was it day-to-day survival and development of such a business that made him decide to do so? While shouting about saving Goa, he has created a bail-out route for himself while shouting about others creating bail out routes overseas. Samir wrote: Is the common man in Goa at all bothered about saving goa ? Or is he preoccupied in getting the next meal on his table ? Mario opines: My guess is that the priority of the common man, unlike a successful IT entrepreneur from Bengalooru or a social activist from London, is to get the next meal on his table. Yes, he is bothered about saving Goa, but that can hardly be his immediate priority, because he doesn't have a clue how to go about saving Goa. In the meantime his family has to survive. He cannot depend on distant social activists to feed his family. Samir wrote: We need to also create alternate sustainable livelihoods for Goans. Mario opines: Truer words were never spoken. The age old question is, how? COMMENT: To those who haven't figured out what I write about on this issue, which include Carmen, Samir, Arwin, lyrwmn and a few others, let me explain. To begin with I have the
[Goanet] Goa and Goans
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 19:12:07 -0800 (PST) From: Vivian A. DSouza socorro...@yahoo.com Enough of all these personal attacks and questioning who is more of a Goan then themselves !! Think! What have you so called real Niz Goenkars allowed to happen to our once beautiful Goa? All you have to offer is a lot of xappotam and hot air. Mario observes: Vivian doesn't write often enough, but when he does he leaves little more that can be said:-)) For an otherwise intelligent guy, Samir has long held that Goans who live abroad - citizenship is a red herring in this day and age - do not have any legitimacy to opine on Goan issues and what to do about these. I was quite surprised when I first found out that he doesn't live in Goa either. I hope Vivian's post puts the focus where it really counts - on the Goan government and the unholy alliances between corrupt politicians and business interests, and the foreign drug and prostitution gangs that are undermining Goan democracy and its quality of life while running roughshod over the existing laws. I don't know who in Goa has the time and resources, passion and righteous indignation, eloquence and fearlessness to lead the citizen's revolt that it is going to take to shake up this unholy alliance, which is not going to go down without a fight, believe me.
[Goanet] What are we waiting for?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 20:53:03 -0500 From: manuel tavares duk...@bell.net We have the capability, but do we have the will or as Floriano says, are we going to beat around the bush? Time will tell. Mario responds: We don't have to wait for time to tell. This same discussion has been going on for years. All the biggest chest-thumpers do not even live in Goa. But they serve a useful purpose whether they live in Bengalooru or Blighty, Canada or California. Without them everyone in Goa would be asleep. Once in a blue moon everyone wakes up and jumps up and down. The CRZ protests a few years ago showed you are right about the capability. What happened after that? It was siesta time again. Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 12:55:57 + From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com No one denies that development is essential for poorer nations... Mario observes: I must be missing something here. In a previous post we were told that the FIRST STEP before doing anything else in Goa was a massive re-education plan to teach Goans that consumerism is not the path towards real meaning in life and contentment, and that their very survival as a species depends on changing direction from short-term gains and rampant consumerism that leads to corruption an greed, only than can we really hope of reaching and achieving governance that is for the benefit of the majority and policies that are sustainable. Now we are being told that development is essential? Why not prevent them from becoming rich in the first place through the re-education programs? That's what the enlightened leaders in Cuba, N. Korea, Zimbabwe, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Venezuela are doing to ensure that their people are permanently happy, aren't they? Haven't the Americans already shown everyone how terrible their unsustainable consumerism is, at least until Obama came along and is thankfully taking the country backward to make it more sustainable? He has even increased the unemployment rate so that mortality rates would decline we can see from the information below. What a guy. His heart is as big as all the other humanitarians like Castro, Jong Il, Mugabe, Morales, Ortega and Chavez. Imagine how terrible it would be if India's GDP became like those greedy Americans. The whole country would look like those Goan mines and the kachra piles all over Panjim. There would be chaos in the streets when every family has two or more cars. The electricity will be shutting down every few minutes when everyone has two refrigerators and air conditioners in every window, or (gasp) central air. The earthly virtual greenhouse would become like a real greenhouse and keep in heat while keeping out rain. Sea levels would rise. Sangolda and Pilerne would replace Calangute and Candolim. Aye, aye, aye. That re-education better start right now. Carmen wrote: But in the advanced economies there is mounting evidence that ever-increasing consumption adds little to human happiness and may even impede it. Mario observes: This is absolutely correct and some of the mounting evidence was on display last month in Copenhagen. Brilliant and benevolent leaders like Robert Mugabe and Hugo Chavez received standing ovations when they said that capitalism was a failed system, and suggested that we all become more like Zimbabwe and Venezuela, two countries with highly sustainable consumption rates and tremendous happiness as a consequence. Someone needs to warn all those immigrants pouring into the US from poorer but happier countries with lower levels of consumption that a special kind of unhappiness that comes from greater consumption awaits them. Why are they rushing in, any way they can, legally and illegally, often risking their lives to do so? They have no idea how bad it's going to be until Obama makes the US just like their countries. Then everyone will be much happier. In the meantime they should go to Zimbabwe and Venezuela. Carmen wrote: 1) Several of the worlds longest-lived peoples eat just 1,800 - 1,900 calories a day, no processed foods, and minimal animal products. By comparison, the average American consumes 3,830 calories a day. Mario responds: Absolutely correct. An illegal alien was caught sneaking into the US and was being questioned by the immigration authorities. Why do you want to come to America? the impoverished and starving alien was asked. He replied, Everyone in American is fat. I want to be like them.:-)) The poor guy has no idea what misery awaits him from all that food and fat he will be carrying around once he finally succeeds in eluding the
Re: [Goanet] Looking for a Goan architect
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- From: Frederick Menezes fred.mene...@gmail.com Fri, 8 January, 2010 9:51:40 PM I'm looking for a Goan architect with good knowledge about traditional Goan houses to design a Goan house. Even better if the architect is also into using natural material and low-cost building techniques. Mario responds: If you can afford him. Gerard DaCunha, the best known Goan architect in Goa: http://www.archgoa.org/about%20the%20museum/atmmain.htm http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_wilmot/98850637/
[Goanet] OCI bullshit by Samir Kelekar
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 22:56:25 -0800 (PST) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com More important than legal, you have no moral right because you have discarded the most basic and fundamental privilege that a country can ever confer on one, namely its citizenship. Mario observes: To begin with I'm glad to see that the Goanet moderators have become more lenient in the use of invective. We now frequently see descriptive terms like crap, shit, bullshit and whore used with gay abandon. I remember the good old days when I had a post rejected by describing some poppycock as poppycock:-)) But I digress. As a proud American who is also proud of my Goan-Bhayya heritage, the comment above is what I would consider a decent sized cake formed by Samir of intestinal waste product from the male bovine species, where Samir is insinuating that he is more-Goan-than-Rajan. Did Samir choose India out of all the countries in the world so that he could be a proud Indian and a self-described Goan activist who is so committed to Goa that he lives in Bengalooru? Did India choose Samir to be on its team and confer citizenship on him? The answer to both these deeply incisive and insightful questions is, NO! The fact is that Samir is an Indian BY PURE CHANCE. He became a citizen without doing anything, simply by virtue of a biological crapshoot. If he has anyone to thank for being a proud Indian it is his parents - he just went along for the ride. Now Rajan, on the other hand, also an Indian by virtue of a biological crapshoot, after growing up and looking around, after much prayer and fasting and contemplation of his navel, consciously CHOSE to become an American, and had to jump through hoops to do so. He is an American BY INTELLIGENT CHOICE. Now, after the supremely wise Manmohanji pushed through a special category od dual citizenship called an Overseas Citizen of India, specifically to benefit India and aimed at high-value Indian-born human persons who had assumed foreign nationalities for all kinds of personal reasons not the least of which were green bucks, Rajan once again CHOSE to become an Overseas Citizen of India. He is an overseas Indian BY INTELLIGENT CHOICE, with full legal, financial and moral rights conferred by the all-knowing Manmohanji, except the right to vote and own farmland. Samir wrote: It is a shame that it was done in preference to green bucks. This also shows your (lack of) commitment to India; Mario responds: Unless Samir has become a Sadhu while we were not looking, did he show a (lack of) committment to Goa by starting his big bucks business in Bengalooru and not Verna, after studying and working, and then doing business in the same country that Rajan chose to become a citizen of? Wasn't an Indian university good enough for Samir? Wasn't Verna good enough for Samir? Aren't Indian clients not good enough for Samir? Samir wrote: push comes to shove you are going to vamoosh (sic) to America. Mario asks: If push comes to shove, I'm sure Rajan will be nice enough to arrange for Samir to vamoose to the US too:-)) That's what Americans do. Help people, not just talk about it. Samir wrote: If indeed you are committed to Goa, you have one option to redeem yourself. Discard this OCI bullshit, and get back your Indian citizenship. That way you will be not just hailed as a hero, but it will also show to one and all your commitment to Goa and India. Mario observes: I think this implied contest that Samir has started of being more-Goan-than-thou should focus on who has done more for Goa, Samir or Rajan. I have no idea. I wonder what Carmen thinks of all this? Is Samir going to lead the Goandolan peaceful grass-roots revolution in Goa, or is Rajan? Please submit your applications to Floriano:-))
Re: [Goanet] Rachel Maddow rips Cheney a new hole
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 16:34:08 -0500 From: Venantius J Pinto venantius.pi...@gmail.com I have also always believed that I for one do not need to seek depth to every issue, Mario observes: Perhaps you should reconsider this do not need when a person's character is being ripped a new hole by a political adversary with an axe to grind. Venantius wrote: Maddow's segment Rachel Maddow rips apart Cheney, GOP attack machine, via DailKOS Tv http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002459/index.html was of course not Goa-related; yet, as I have repeatedly done -- presented to Goans (fully aware that they are very aware) -- various ways of seeing, confronting, and learning responses to their own socio-religio political EXISTENCEs and interests in INDIA. Mario responds: Here is the totality of your original post: Quote: You have not seen anything like this. Observe the level of analysis, fact checking, quality of journalism. Rachel Maddow rips apart Cheney, GOP attack machine http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002459/index.html Unquote. I don't get it. How did this present to Goans (fully aware that they are very aware) -- various ways of seeing, confronting, and learning responses to their own socio-religio political EXISTENCEs and interests in INDIA.??? You wrote, Observe the level of analysis, fact checking, quality of journalism.??? They don't know anything in India or Goa about the Daily Kos and Rachel Maddow and their political agendas and her ability to rip a political opponent by misconstruing what they and others have said. Venantius wrote: To rip a hole (a la Cheney) does not automatically imply a new sphincter. Mario responds: Of course it doesn't. Anyone familiar with slang would know that. In the context of the link you posted and its contents, the meaning of your title would amount to Rachel Maddow subjects Cheney to vehement criticism or attack in the Queen's English. Attack and obfuscate is precisely what Maddow tried to do in her typical scurrilous way. Venantius wrote: No axe to grind, although I can proverbially and physically use most weapons, including the Parshu/Tabar for that matter. That's just another slice of info about me, to go along with my brush wielding skills. Surely worth a snicker. Mario observes: If you insist, snicker:-)) Must remember to keep a safe distance from your Parshu/Tabar in case you decide to use it to make one of your opaque philosophical points:-)) I have seen your awesome brush wielding skills. Why don't you share those with us on Goanet through some sort of internet website.
[Goanet] What are we waiting for?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:41:57 + From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com But there is first of all a profound and radical change that we need to work on which is the transformation of our culture from Consumerism to Sustainability. When people begin to understand that consumerism is not the path towards real meaning in life and contentment, and that their very survival as a species depends on changing direction from short-term gains and rampant consumerism that leads to corruption an greed, only than can we really hope of reaching and achieving governance that is for the benefit of the majority and policies that are sustainable. So perhaps our first step should be to re-educate people, create awareness and inform the masses. Mario observes: As an American-style consumerist and observer of how India's new-found free market consumerism has created an economic resurgence for millions of Indians, I am following this discussion with growing bemusement. In my never-humble opinion the problems in Goa boil down to an unholy alliance between corrupt business owners and greedy politicians and government bureaucrats. They have been flouting the laws already on the books while enriching themselves through bribery and corruption and running roughshod over the state and its environment. Contributing factors are the growing influence of lawless foreign drug dealers, pimps and prostitutes, who are thriving like parasites on Goa's tourist industry. Law abiding Goans are watching all this unfold with growing horror and frustration as Goa's fabled quality of life is declining. They don't know what to do, because the same old corrupt politicians keep getting elected by the population as a whole. They would really like a French-style Revolution, but the only Shivaji-like Goan I know who is passionate enough, eloquent enough, angry enough and hard-nosed enough to lead such a movement is a Goanetter and part time resident in Goa. Some activists opine that we cannot even wait until the next election. A people's movement should begin TOMORROW to pressurize the politicians in Goa to wake up and do better. Short of the French-style Revolution, this sounds reasonable enough. Something obviously must be done, though I can't see anything tangible happening until Goa gets at least a few legislators to go along with reform and rock the boat. The unholy alliance between Goan legislators and corrupt business interests is very strong. But, there's nothing to lose by pressuring them through a civil upheaval. OK. So, where do we sign up? But wait! Another activist says we FIRST need to TRANSFORM OUR CULTURE from CONSUMERISM to SUSTAINABILITY, and re-educate the unwashed masses to reject Consumerism and embrace Sustainability. Hanh?! Hasn't India been there already? I am left to wonder a) what exactly do these terms mean in a secular democracy finally waking up and growing by leaps and bounds after decades of being hobbled by extreme socialist policies, b) who decides what levels of consumerism and sustainability an entire regional society should embrace. Manmohan Singh is still working on convincing the communists in his political coalitions that the central government doesn't know what's good for everyone else better than they do, which was the ruling philosophy from Independance to the era of Manmohan, the unassuming architect and reluctant hero of India's economic resurgence. Doesn't India need MORE consumerism and less government intervention in the economy? What India could use a lot more of is a massive dose of CIVIC SENSE, completely missing among most of the population, which would lead to less corruption at all levels, more tax compliance, more consideration for their neighbors and public spaces and MORE PUBLIC TOILETS RUN LIKE THE SULABHS BY PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. Adding to my bemusement the Dictionary I consulted had the following definitions of consumerism: 1. a modern movement for the protection of the consumer against useless, inferior, or dangerous products, misleading advertising, unfair pricing, etc. 2. the concept that an ever-expanding consumption of goods is advantageous to the economy. 3. the fact or practice of an increasing consumption of goods: a critic of American consumerism. Somehow, I don't think Item 2 would co-exist very well with the elite notions of sustainability:-)) I guess this means that those who want IMMEDIATE action need to get in line and register for the first class in this massive re-education program. This will teach the proletariat struggling to make a living that they need to
[Goanet] Is India FINALLY getting a handle on jihadi terrorism?
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers36/paper3586.html India Jihadi Terrorism During 2009-International Terrorism Monitor--Paper No. 602 By B. Raman For the first time since the demolition of the Babri Masjid in December,1992, we did not have any act of jihadi terrorism in Indian territory outside JK during 2009either by indigenous or by Pakistan-based terrorists. I would attribute it to the following reasons: a) The good investigation of the acts of terrorism involving the Indian Mujahideen (IM) in 2007 and 2008 by the police of Karnataka, Delhi, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra and the arrest of most of those involved. b) The neutralisation of the cells of the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) by the police of the above States and Madhya Pradesh. c) As a result of these actions, the IM and the SIMI have not been able to reconstitute their cells and command and control. d) The more sensitive handling of the grievances and anger of the alienated sections of the Indian Muslim community by the Government of Manmohan Singh. The anti-State anger in the Indian Muslim community is less. e) The strengthening of the intelligence and counter-terrorism machinery by P.Chidambaram since he took over as the Home Minister after the 26/11 terrorist strikes in Mumbai. f) The greater co-operation between the counter-terrorism communities of India and the US. g) The sustained pressure exercised by the US on the Pakistani political and military leadership to see that 26/11 is not repeated. The US continues to be reluctant to take punitive action against the State of Pakistan for not acting against the anti-India terrorist infrastructure. At the same time, it is anxious to ensure that there is no more 26/11 in Indian territory outside JK by Pakistan-sponsored terrorists lest uncontrollable tensions between India and Pakistan come in the way of its operations in Afghanistan. h) After 26/11, there is growing international concern over the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LET). Consequently, it is under watch by the intelligence agencies of the US and many other countries. 2. One must remember that while there were no acts of jihadi and Pakistani-sponsored terrorism in Indian territory outside JK, the Pakistan-based organisations, with the nod of the ISI, continued to attack Indian interests in Afghanistan during 2009. There was a second major act of terrorism outside the Indian Embassy in Kabul during 2009. 3. There has been no change in the jihadi objective of making India bleed. We should be prepared for more surprises, but try to prevent them by following the present policy of sustained revamping of the Intelligence and counter-terrorism machinery, continued attention to the grievances and sensitivities of the Indian Muslims, continued pressure on Pakistan to act against the anti-Indian terrorist infrastructure in its territory and continued co-operation with the US, despite our periodic unhappiness with Washington DC over matters such as not allowing us to interrogate David Coleman Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana of the Chicago cell of the LET. Indo-US counter-terrorism co-operation will be mutually beneficial. If it wants and decides to, the US is the only country in a position to make Pakistan behave. We should use the US skilfully. Occasional anti-US breast-beating is necessary, but overdoing it could be counter-productive. (The writer is Additional Secretary( (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai. E-mail: seventyo...@gmail.com)
[Goanet] A Goan among 8 Indian CEOs at big U.S. companies
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:05:12 +0530 From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com The Goa connection is here: Technology is a field particularly receptive to the foreign born. Kenya-born Francisco D?Souza heads Cognizant Technology Solutions, which outsources IT services for its Western world clients. Mario adds: Hey, Fred, How did everyone miss these Goan CEOs, both of whom grew up in Mumbai. 1. Ivan Menezes, younger brother of Victor, is an American CEO in his own right since 2003: http://www.allbusiness.com/company-activities-management/company-structures-ownership/5794961-1.html 2. Pascal Noronha, is another American CEO. http://www.pv-tech.org/going_places/_a/abound_solar_seeks_new_ceo_as_pascal_noronha_steps_down_moves_over_to_chair/
Re: [Goanet] What Are We Waiting For? (By Carmen Miranda)
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 13:31:32 +0530 From: floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com Time and again I have been saying that we have not been electing CORRUPT POLITICIANS but the CORRUPT SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE. Mario asks: Floriano, kitem mhontai, re? How did the CORRUPT SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE come to pass if it were not for CORRUPT POLITICIANS, and how do you change the CORRUPT SYSTEM OF GOVERNANCE when the same old CORRUPT POLITICIANS continue to be elected? I remember a post by Tony Correia some years ago on Goanet who related a personal experience when he wanted to run for office. I don't remember the details but what he found he would have to do discouraged him from running. BTW, where is Tony? Perhaps he can tell us exactly what he found. Are the sussegad Goans, other than the three or four chest-thumpers on Goanet who all paradoxically live outside Goa, ready for a French-style Revolution? No wonder nothing is changing for the better in Goa.
[Goanet] Humanists celebrate the season
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:07:11 -0500 From: Goanet News Service n...@goanet.org The group, founded three years ago, hosted an event Monday night in which its members decorated a tree with covers from some of their favourite books read this past year. Being humanists, there were plenty of books that focused on science and logical thinking; Charles Darwin's Origin of Species made an appearance as did Al Gore's The Assault on Reason and David Suzuki's The Sacred Balance. Kevin Saldanha, the group's president, said the event wasn't designed to denigrate people's faith. Rather, it was a way for the group to celebrate and enjoy the season in a way that's in line with their beliefs. Mario responds: Happy Winter Solstice to all humanists. As Goanet's lone voice of reason, truth and peace, please let me know when you humanists, all fifteen of you, actually start doing something to promote the individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-actualization through reason, instead of your stereotypical sympathy and support for philosophies and political systems and politicians that end up achieving the exact opposite of an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-actualization. Here's a clue of what I mean: Adding a feckless politician like Al Gore's intellectually-challenged book to your tree.
[Goanet] What Are We Waiting For? (By Carmen Miranda)
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 18:15:27 +0400 From: Arwin Mesquita arwinmesqu...@gmail.com Squeezed between the calamities of tourism and mining, Goa is on the brink, says CARMEN MIRANDA, as she calls for change http://www.oheraldo.in/pagedetails.asp?nid=31766cid=14 Excerpt: What are we waiting for? For the next election, to recycle the same people into power again? Mario observes: Carmen is absolutely correct in her situational analysis as we call it in business cycles. However, where she goes from there is problematic. To the question, What are we waiting for? For the next election...? my answer would have to be YES! THAT is where it all has to begin. But you don't have to WAIT, for crying out loud. DO SOMETHING to identify and help the kinds of politicians you think will take you in the direction you want to go. Are you all deluding yourself that you have any other viable choice? To the question, ...to recycle the same people into power again? my answer would have to be NO! THIS is what the problem has been all along since 1987 - electing and re-electing corrupt politicians. If you look at it logically and not emotionally, ask yourself why corrupt politicians keep getting elected and re-elected in Goa? Is this because the thoughts and feelings expressed by Carmen in the column under reference are shared by most Goans who show up on election day? Excerpt: It is in our hands to systematically provoke a reform that will scare away from public life those swindlers and crooks who are sucking the blood out of Goa! Mario observes: I have absolutely no idea what this means in real life. The swindlers and crooks ostensibly running Goa are hardly going to be scared away by emotional sentiments by non-resident Goans, however heartfelt. There is only two things they care about: a) The next election results, and b) Lining their own pockets in-between elections. BTW, in case anyone misunderstands my bucket of cold water, I, too, would LOVE to see a Goa exactly as Carmen has descibed IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN! I just don't see her call for a French-style Revolution in Goa's future.
[Goanet] Rachel Maddow rips Cheney a new hole
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 05:38:43 -0500 From: Venantius J Pinto venantius.pi...@gmail.com You have not seen anything like this. Observe the level of analysis, fact checking, quality of journalism. Rachel Maddow rips apart Cheney, GOP attack machine http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002459/index.html Mario responds: For anyone to concoct an analysis to try and show that President Bush and Vice President Cheney were soft on international terrorism in any shape or form, compared with the fierce warrriors [snicker!] of the Obama administration would not even pass the smell test with most serious observers, who would LOL at this notion! Even before reading it I knew the contents of this link that Venantius has posted on Goanet for reasons that escape me with respect to the Goanet Rules on relevence to Goa and Goans were bogus, distorted, and taken out of context, simply because of the reputation of the analyst, Rachel Maddow, and the far left wing blog the Daily Kos, who are both well known in the US for deliberately distorted political spin from the far left wing taken out of context to make it sound reasonable and logical. After reading the so-called analysis I believe I am right. One fact to remember is that anyone captured in the US, whether citizen or not, whether friend or foe, has to be tried under the US Constitution in either civil or criminal courts, with all the endless protections in favor of the miscreant and against the prosecution. Thus the Blind Sheikh who planned WTC-I in 1993, Richard Reid, Zacarias Moussaoui and now Abdul Muttalab, must be tried under the most powerful protections ever devised by a country for the bad guys. What the Obama administration has changed is to give foreign enemy combatants who were captured on foreign battlefields the same rights as those captured on US soil, instead of trying them under military tribunals in Gitmo. These have never been granted the full protection of the US Constitution before, which includes full legal representation at taxpayer expense including appeals all the way to the Supreme Court. Here are some of the most egregious examples from this so-called analysis in Quotes, followed by my comments: Quote: Dick Cheney’s comments today probably the worst among them. He said, quote, He seems to think if he gives terrorists the rights of Americans, lets them lawyer up and reads them their Miranda rights, we won’t be at war. Unquote: Comment: What Dick Cheney was talking about was foreign enemy combatants and not those captured on US soil. He was criticizing the Obama administration's lax attitude towards international terrorism, by calling the War on International Terror an Overseas Contingency Operation and calling terrorism a man-caused disaster, all sophistries that are causing much amusement among the terrorists. Quote: Remember Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber? Richard Reid was arrested December 2001, when a man named Dick Cheney was vice president. The Bush Justice Department let him, as they say, lawyer up, and Mr. Reid later pled guilty in federal court. Unquote: Comment: The Bush administration had no choice under the US Constitution, just as the Obama administration has no choice with respect to Abdul Muttalab the most recent terrorist who tried to blow up the Delta Airlines plane on Christmas Day. Quote: Remember 9/11 co-conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui? Same deal. Given American rights, tried in the federal courts and convicted, all while a man named Dick Cheney was vice president. Unquote: Comment: Since Zacarias Moussaoui was captured in the US the administration had no legal choice. Quote: What President Obama is doing right now with this case is the same thing that was done with the same type of cases while Dick Cheney was vice president. But Dick Cheney isn’t letting anything like that hold him back, saying, quote, Why doesn’t he want to admit we’re at war? President Obama’s first object and his highest responsibility must be to defend us against an enemy that knows we are at war. Unquote: Comment: The problem with this analysis is that Cheney's comments are taken out of context. He was not criticizing Obama for trying people captured on US soil under the US Constitution. He was referring to enemy combatants who were captured on foreign battlefields being held at Gitmo who did not qualify for trials on US soil under the US Constitution, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammad and another five of his colleagues, until the Obama administration decided to do so, with NO precedent in US history for doing so. Quote: The Bush/Cheney
[Goanet] Who Originated Spammer's Lists? Don't Tell Me it Was a Frustrated Ex-goanetter
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:27:18 +0530 From: augusto pinto pinto...@gmail.com Unbeknownst to you a whirlwind of correspondence is being generated in cyberspace by current or ex - goanetters. Participants in, or at least recipients of, this e-correspondence includes the following worthies: What are these guys writing about? Don't ask me because although their droppings constantly crop up in my inbox I barely bother to check the stuff. It is so unspeakably boring. Oh well if you must know, it started off by containing some remnants of the Fr Ivo - Dr Santosh medico-religious poop and otherwise continued with the vomit and sputum that some of the above like to shower upon one another on goanet. Some think this is a form of male bonding. Mario observes: Tio Augusto, kitem re? Why did you have to expose this dastardly secret society engaged in verbal mud wrestling to the light of day - a Goan netherworld of robust exchanges too strong for the tender and fastidious personalities on Goanet, constrained as they are by Rules and Moderators, heavy on serious discussions about ghatis and corruption and identity but light on actual solutions, with much hand wringing and weeping and gnashing of teeth? As usual it is left to me to apply the proper context and perspective:-)) To begin with, the list is not Spam as you and Lord Frederick of Saligao, the human pinata on the list, have erroneously labeled it, because anyone who does not have the right intestinal fortitude can ask to be excused and graciously is. In your post you actually mentioned some who are no longer on the list by their request. Admittedly, it sometimes takes a couple of reminders because no one is typically paying attention to the cry-babies who can't stand the heat in this cauldron:-)) Secondly, you say you have no idea what these guys are writing about because you find it boring. Then we find that it was not boring enough for you to know exactly what is being written about:-)) What you colorfully describe as poop, vomit, and sputum shows that you must have rolled around in it, at least a little bit, for you to know exactly what it felt like, looked like and smelled like:-)) Here's more proof of that: Quote: Boring though the stuff is, it struck me as an interesting way of bypassing the moderators of a largish mailing list like goanet, who may or may not be fair in their adjudications of what should pass as worthy of being featured on the list they control. Unquote. Tio Augusto wrote: The advantage of such c.c. - lists, or what Lord Frederick says is a Spammer's List, is that the language can be freer and one can get one's message to a target audience who know one another well (well, more or less) without annoying those who might tune in to a regular mailing list (like goanet) for some information and who may not quite appreciate the argumentativeness and cussedness of some of the regulars, howsoever amusing or boring that may be. Mario observes: Bingo. See, you were not so bored after all:-)) You knew exactly what was going on while you were enjoying the sights and sounds and smells of the poop, vomit, and sputum, while pretending to be bored and above it all:-)) Tio Augusto wrote: Anyway I was curious to know whether such e-behaviour is common or whether this happens to be the invention of some of our frustrated ex - goanetters. Maybe someone could do a Ph.D on this stuff. It wouldn't do harm to have another Dotor among us - what say? Mario observes: Who knows whether this is common. The list you enjoy so much is in sort of a cyber-limbo between Goanet and the equally rambunctious GX, with most but not all the members on multiple lists. This third list waxes and wanes and often dies for months at a time, then suddenly flares up like a raging Phoenix out of the ashes of some previous firefight when this somehow becomes appropriate. I think your own boring dissertation includes all the research, insight and discussion that is necessary to earn you at least a Certificate in the specialized art of verbal mud wrestling, where the limits of free speech are sorely tested, where libel occasionally raises its ugly head and where the fainthearted fear to tread - with good reason. This list is not your shamai's Rosary and Bible study group:-))
Re: [Goanet] IS KILLING UNBORN BABIES A HUMAN RIGHT ?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:47:30 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com From a neurophysiological standpoint a rudimentary brain begins functioning at 10 weeks of gestation, as measured by the initiation of electrical activity. Cerebral cortical activity begins at 22 weeks of gestation. Medical abortion is a legal medical procedure important for saving the life of the mother in some medical conditions. It should never be criminalized. The debate about personhood has no bearing on this issue, just as it has no bearing on the issue of killing of military and civilian lives in war, judicial executions and killing in self-defense. It is a pragmatic philosophy informed by scientific facts and real life problems in the medical field and in society. It is also a political philosophy driven by the principle that in a secular democracy the beliefs of any particular religion should not be imposed on all people through government action or by the will of the majority. Otherwise cow slaughter would be criminalized in India. Mario observes: This particular discussion started with an essay by Averthanus in which he writes about three Irish women who had gone to Britain to get abortions because abortions are banned in Ireland. As with many extremists, the fact that they could legally kill their unborn babies was not good enough for them. According to Averthanus, they then proceeded to file a suit before the European Court of Human Rights challenging the Irish Constitution, which protects all human life from the moment of conception. Their contention is that the lack of abortion facilities in Ireland breaches the human rights of women to terminate their pregnancies. Thus, the title of this thread. Apparently, Ireland was assured that before joining the European Union that their national sovereignty and constitution would not be trampled by their membership in the EU. So, we'll see what happens to this case where KILLING the unborn within them is now being claimed, not as a medical or social right under certain constraints, but as a broader human right, which hitherto has been a right to LIVE in peace and security. Santosh's primary concern seems to be that laws may be passed that impede the use of EMBRYONIC stem cells in medical research which he, as a medical research scientist, believes will benefit society if and when cures for human illnesses and physical conditions are developed. His secondary concern seems to be that abortions are sometimes necessary to save the life of the mother. His third concern seems to be that the opposition to abortion is purely religious and that in secular democracies the beliefs of the religious should not prevail over the opinions of others. Thus we see the two ends of the spectrum of those who advocate for abortion. At one end you have Santosh's pragmatic concerns based on secular philosophy, political ideology and medical research. At the other end we see the advocacy of abortion as a human right, i.e. at the whim of the mother. I can at least see Santosh's point of view. However, I cannot see abortion as a human right in the conventional sense since the rights of unborn humans are missing from the equation. I don't think Santosh disagrees that a naturally conceived embryo under normal circumstances evolves into a fetus and eventually into a human being with full legal personhood by any definition. In addition, whereas EMBRYONIC stem cell research doesn't seem to have produced the same spectacular results as adult stem cell research, there are thousands of embryos left unused as an unintended consequence of artificial fertilization procedures, which provides the anti-abortionists with a dilemma they would rather not face. What do we do with these? Store them until hell freezes over or use them, i.e. kill them for embryonic stem cell research. The only other alternative is to kill them period, which makes no sense at all. This is an impass, not for the Catholic Church as an institution, which opposes any artificial means of reproduction, but for everyone else who believes that an embryo is a human life. The status quo is that these are being used for embryonic stem cell research. The secularists have taken care of their interests by making up definitions based on brain activity, consciousness, will, etc. which Santosh has described quite vividly. While these traits are not to be found in an embryo, they evolve as the fetus develops, and well before a live birth. These definitions have found legal acceptance in all secular countries and I wouldn't worry too much about any significant regression in the status quo. On the other hand, as we are seeing in Europe, there are pro-abortionists pushing the envelope outward. For some reason these pro-abortionists cannot bring themselves to be as passionate about developing better organized systems for adoption in the case of unwanted pregnancies.
[Goanet] New report on CO2 in the atmosphere
--- http://www.GOANET.org --- Happy New Year Twenty-Ten --- If this research holds up to scrutiny all we probably need to do about CO2 is to plant more trees, especially in countries like India where vast areas have been de-forested and massive re-forestation needs to take place. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091230184221.htm Excerpts: Most of the carbon dioxide emitted by human activity does not remain in the atmosphere, but is instead absorbed by the oceans and terrestrial ecosystems. In fact, only about 45 percent of emitted carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere. To assess whether the airborne fraction is indeed increasing, Wolfgang Knorr of the Department of Earth Sciences at the University of Bristol reanalyzed available atmospheric carbon dioxide and emissions data since 1850 and considers the uncertainties in the data. In contradiction to some recent studies, he finds that the airborne fraction of carbon dioxide has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades. The research is published in Geophysical Research Letters. [end of excerpt]
Re: [Goanet] IS KILLING UNBORN BABIES A HUMAN RIGHT ?
Averthan avert...@gmail.com wrote: The vast majority of medical opinion holds that a human embryo or foetus is a distinct human person. This should be obvious to anyone with common sense. Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:02:46 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com This is pure nonsense. The term human person is a religious term. The vast majority of medical opinion has not coalesced around its use. The vast majority of medical professionals want to use embryonic stem cells for saving lives through medical research. The vast majority of medical professionals want to keep medical abortions legal for saving the lives of mothers. From the non-religious philosophical standpoint, a person is an entity capable of perception, thought and willed action. Modern science tells us that these things are possible only if that entity possesses a living and functioning brain. An embryo does not have a brain developed enough for this. Mario observes: Santosh, Since when did the personal opinions of a vast majority of professional people become a scientific conclusion? Are you trying to deny that genetically, a new human being comes into existence from the earliest moment of conception as a simple DNA test of an embryo would be able to distinguish it from a non-living thing? You are clearly expressing an ideological or political or pragmatic philosophy when you say, The vast majority of medical professionals want to use embryonic stem cells for saving lives through medical research. Most laws on abortion make exceptions when the choice is between the life of the mother and the life of the unborn child and it is common sense that should dictate such a tragic decision based on the odds of survival. You may want to deny the humanity of an embryo for your own reasons and consider the fetus a human person at a later stage, but even you or science cannot deny what happens to a normally conceived embryo that is left alone. Quibbling about when you think an embryo becomes a human person when the alternative through an abortion is for that same embryo to not become that same human person at all, seems nonsensical to someone with a philosophy different from yours.
Re: [Goanet] Goanetters Meet
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:50:30 -0800 (PST) From: lyrawmn lyra...@yahoo.com Mr. Goveia, Tsk! Tsk! So unfortunate that your Christmas spirit keeps intruding on the innate impulse to bat and brick attacks. Mario responds: Dear lyrawmn, A Happy Winter Solstice to you as well, and a Happy New year. My verbal bats and bricks are only used on Goanet in the relentless pursuit of reason, truth and peace, of which I seem to be a lonely voice. Pray tell, what about the following comments in the post you have chosen to malign did you fail to understand in the spirit of Christmas? 3. I have no idea what is bugging you two but this love-hate relationship has to stop. You and Cecil need to air-kiss and make up. Collaborate on a funny essay, why don't you? Or write a book together. Send some flowers through Cecil to Tony whom you are so fond of. 4. As the lone voice of reason, truth and peace on Goanet, you need to convert all this negative energy into some positive energy. Don't you know the Himalayan icecaps are melting already? Don't make me bring my baseball bat and sort this out:-)) 5. Are there no peacemakers in Goa? Vivian? Tony? Ana Maria?
[Goanet] Goa taxi driver hit us with baseball bat
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:00:07 +0530 From: floriano floriano.l...@gmail.com PS: I am already testing the sharpening tool if you have noticed. PPS: Goa's Need of the Hour...What's Zat??? Mario observes: Floriano, Instead of importing bogus American slang like Zat, you need to import a shipload of baseball bats for use on the whores who run Goa government. Actually our bats are probably all made in China these days:-)) Check with Shirodkar where he got his. I'm sure his ardor must have cooled off by now. Still no news from Mervyn as to how he knew with such certainty, all the way from Toronto, that these particular Russian young ladies were call girls.
[Goanet] Goanetters meet
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:24:59 -0800 (PST) From: Carvalho elisabeth_...@yahoo.com And Frederick if you want me to attend I want in order of priority. Limo pick-up Pink champagne, rose wine, none of your Port no 5 served in a plastic bottle. prawn pattices. Not that stuff you get in the shops. I want home-made stuff, baba. Sorpatel, estew and pulau, prepared by a mestrin. Last but not least that quintessential Goan touch, table center pieces which I can put in my handbag and then display in my formica showcase. And don't forget, my styrofoam souvenirs to always remembers Goanetters meet. Something appropriately Goan inscribed on it, like Forgot Not Me, Goanetters Meet 2020. For my part, I will oblige by wearing a tight-fitting sequined dress, with a big shiny bow at the back and also one in front, and enough red lipstick to make the fish at margao bazar jealous. Mario observes: Selma OK, with two posts in December, Selma is suddenly becoming an active Goanetter:-)) However, now that she has established what she is - at least to the panting fish at Margao bazar - as well as her price, I guess it hardly matters whether Cecil is one of the organizers or not in 2010 or is it 2020, or perhaps both:-))
[Goanet] IS KILLING UNBORN BABIES A HUMAN RIGHT ?
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:04:03 -0500 From: Averthan avert...@gmail.com Keeping aside the legal conundrum for the jurists to unravel, it is important that we consider the ethical and social implications of the claim that women have a right to arbitrarily terminate their pregnancies, and that, therefore, the State has a duty to provide them with all the facilities required for this purpose. Mario observes: Is there a legal conundrum in this case given the assurances of sovereignty in the treaties forming the EU? Averthan wrote: The vast majority of medical opinion holds that a human embryo or foetus is a distinct human person. This should be obvious to anyone with common sense. Mario observes: This obviously excludes the three Irish women, who have probably convinced themselves of the extreme feminist position that the foetus is an unviable tissue mass, even though we now know it already has the DNA of a human being. These women have taken this to another level. Even though they have the option of having an abortion in Britain, they are demanding that all the citizens of Ireland, regardless of their own closely held beliefs in favor of life, subsidize the desire of the few to abort their foetuses. Averthan wrote: Without getting involved in any technical debates, it is obvious that an unborn baby is a human person with rights and privileges like any other human person. Mario observes: I hope you are not oblivious to the fact that there are many men and women who do not think this is so obvious. Averthan wrote: The inexorable logic of permitting murder is that that society is doomed to become a society which condones, and even actively promotes, the murder of the elderly, who are considered to be a drag on society, of the physically disabled, the mentally challenged and the economically disprivileged. Mario responds: This is already happening in subtle ways especially in countries that have health care systems run by socialist bureaucrats. Averthan writes: The problem starts with the basic disrespect for human life. Humankind has not yet learned that all life is sacred, specially human life, which represents the pinnacle of evolution. Mario responds: There is a win-win option for women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason - the choice of adoption by the numerous couples who are unable to conceive. This option strangely gets lost in the shuffle in the emotional debate over abortion rights.
Re: [Goanet] Goanetters Meet
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 12:06:22 -0800 (PST) From: Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca I hope Uncle Mario will not get a heart attack when he reads this one. I need him alive for another little while so that he gets to see $1,650 gold :-) Mario responds: Young Mervyn, One of the fundamental building blocks in finance is known as the Time value of money. If you were familiar with this concept you would know that it is not only what level the price of an investment or commodity will reach but also when. Both are critical in evaluating whether an investment was worth making relative to other investment opportunities. When you predicted %1,650 for the price of gold you said it could be anytime between March of 2008 when it reached $1,000 per oz. and you made your prediction, and when hell freezes over. The time it takes to actually reach $1,650 will determine whether it was a good investment relative to other investment alternatives that were available at the time. Between March of 2008 when you made your prediction and October of 2009 gold was a lousy investment, and we didn't hear a peep from you about gold. Then your socialist icon, Barack Hussein Obama's policies started to kick in. Whether Obama will be able to continue to debase the currency beyond 2010 when his wings are likely to be drastically clipped in the mid-term elections is an open question. In the meantime, it may behoove you to familiarise yourself with these investment basics. I hope this link helps: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/timevalueofmoney.asp
Re: [Goanet] Goa taxi driver hit us with baseball bat
Salus Correia wrote: Samir has gone 'bananas'! Pramod Shirodkar is definitely a Goan so please do not link him and spoil the 'good name' of the ghatis. Goans are rapists besides other things. Remove the blinkers. Every community has its bad apples, and Goans are not exempt. Mervyn Lobo wrote: Secondly, the Russian girls are not tourists in Goa. They are high priced call girls. That combination is a good enough lure for anyone with extra money. Mario observes: I am not even going to ask how Mervyn knows with such absolute certainty that these particular Russian women are whores. That gold business must be doing well:-)) It was also good during the season that celebrates the birth of Christ to see Salus defending the good name of the ghatis:-)) As an American I found the use of a baseball bat interesting, which is a convenient weapon of choice of neighborhood bullys in North America. However, for all the Goans recently seen wringing their hands on Goanet and gnashing their teeth about this case of attempted rape by a rampant taxi driver, please don't pretend this is a Goan phenomenon. Female foreign tourists across India are in constant jeopardy from repressed Indian males with an obsession for melanin-challenged women: http://www.haqeeqat.org/2009/10/30/incredible-india-from-tourist-hotspot-to-rape-murder-destination/ http://www.merinews.com/article/rape-of-foreign-tourists-shames-the-nation/129227.shtml http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-20828.aspx http://indiablogs.searchindia.com/2008/12/01/tourists-beware-india-a-major-rape-destination/
[Goanet] Copenhagen Folly
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:21:36 -0700 From: Rumba_Pete waltzpa...@gmail.com Thank you Mario Goveia, for that excellent link! ( http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/climate-folly-79787117.html) Environmentalists have always wanted to hijack the world with their seriously flawed ideology. In artfully packaging environmentalism to seem like any major world religion, they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams of destroying the world's economy. Mario responds: Rumba Pete? Is this a another nickname specially approved by the powers that be in violation of the Goanet Rules? With all due respect, Rumba Pete, I am one of those who feels queasy when I don't know the identity of a poster in a public forum such as Goanet. I have let the moderators and others who use nicknames like Xanno Moidekar or JoeGoaUK know what I think, so I must let you know as well. When the referees start making selective and capricious exceptions to the rules, where does it stop? This is nothing personal and neither is it a reflection on what the individuals have written. For example, I have found little or nothing to take issue with in Xanno's or Joe's posts, or with this post of yours either, where you have actually agreed with me. My personal request is for all those who are using nicknames to come out into the sunlight, so that the rest of us are not, in effect, talking to some anonymous person behind a curtain. Now back to your comments. I have long believed that the environmental extremists are quite different from rational environmentalists who want us to be good stewards of the environment for the benefit of our general health and quality of life and the benefit of our future generations. Thus I support emissions that are filtered of particulates and toxic gases that would endanger our health, re-forestation when trees need to be cut down, sensible urban planning so as not to destroy water tables, normal flows of rainwater, streams, etc., sensible urban planning which does not let inappropriate construction and garish signs and billboards to destroy the ambience of roads and highways and historic buildings, rehabilitation of open pit mines through landscaping and re-planting after the ore has been depleted, and so on. Virtually all the environmental extremists today used to be extreme socialists until the world began to realize that extreme socialism made no sense. Now they want to try through the back door of environmentalism what they failed to achieve through socialism, a sort of world-government not accountable to anyone to redistribute wealth from the producers of wealth to those who squander their wealth and resources, while benefitting themselves, the controlling elite, whose only skill is the achievement of political power. The new President of the EU recently let the cat out of the bag: http://creatingorwellianworld-view-alaphiah.blogspot.com/2009/11/new-european-union-president-proclaims.html This report even has a video so you can hear him in his own words. The good news is that they have not succeeded yet in destroying the world economy, even as they have acquired a powerful ally in the new US President, Barack Hussein Obama. Their over-reaching and overconfidence has resulted in a backlash that will inhibit if not defeat their plans. In the US this is manifesting itself in a continuing decline in the president's approval ratings as more and more people begin to realize where his policies are leading to: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
[Goanet] Goanetters Meet
Carvalho elisabeth_car at yahoo.com Mon Dec 28 09:43:06 PST 2009 Dear Tony, You know I am extremely fond of you but I want to make two things absolutely clear. 1) As a fellow Goanetter, I'm not interested in what upsets Cecil Pinto as just about anything can upset the man. 2) I will never attend anything either organised or headed by him. As an active Goanetter, I strongly request that we keep Goanet as uncorrupted as possible. Mario observes: 1. Active Goanetter? With ONE measley post in December - THIS ONE?! What the bleep is THAT? 2. Are you threatening to really attend this soiree next year or are you just blowing smoke? 3. I have no idea what is bugging you two but this love-hate relationship has to stop. You and Cecil need to air-kiss and make up. Collaborate on a funny essay, why don't you? Or write a book together. Send some flowers through Cecil to Tony whom you are so fond of. 4. As the lone voice of reason, truth and peace on Goanet, you need to convert all this negative energy into some positive energy. Don't you know the Himalayan icecaps are melting already? Don't make me bring my baseball bat and sort this out:-)) 5. Are there no peacemakers in Goa? Vivian? Tony? Ana Maria?
[Goanet] Conflicts of interest - the dirty politics behind
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:59:03 + From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com 1 - There were 192 countries and heads of goverment in the Copenhagen Climate Conference. Fancy you noticing only Mugabe and Chavez! As it turned out Chavez made some very good interventions, but you wouldn't understand it. Mario responds: What caught my eye was that these two despicable communist tyrants, Robert Mugabe and Hugo Chavez, who preside over two countries with considerable natural resources which their policies have squandered and wasted, causing untold misery for millions of their citizens, received the largest applause at this farcical conference in Copenhagen for calling capitalism a failed system, and yet demanding that the capitalists pay them and their failed economies to clean up their environments. Carmen is correct that I would not understand interventions by a despicable communist tyrant who runs a country with considerable oil resources so badly that it has a 60% poverty rate. I'm sorry to see that Carmen apparently appreciates this corrupt communist tyrant, even as she opposes the corrupt tyrants running Goa. The goal of the Copenhagen farce was clearly to bring the western economies down towards the lowest common denominator and to redistribute their wealth to inefficient economies where mostly socialist dictators would use the funds to consolidate their tyranny, and to do so through scurrilous means using controversial and unprovable scientific predictions as their basis. There is no guarantee that any of the wealth so transferred would be used for the purposes intended given why these countries are impoverished in the first place - misguided economic policies administered by dictators who excel in making themselves rich. Carmen wrote: 2 - The IPCC is a scientific body. Mario responds: This is false. The IPCC is a political organization and its final summary conclusions on climate change that then get widely reported by the media are written under the supervision of political hacks. It employs teams of scientists who study different issues but rarely interact with each other and the vast majority of scientists have no involvement in the final reports. The way the IPCC operates and how it develops its reports would be laughed out of existence at any credible institution of higher learning. Carmen writes: 3 - As for your irrational hatred of Al Gore, it is not surprising given that you are probably a Republican or at least sound like one? Besides, the judgement about showing The Inconvenient Truth in schools or notis the Judge a climate scientist by any chance? No! Mario responds: My rational criticism of Al Gore - not irrational hatred as Carmen falsely alleges - is based on the fact that he is a proven charlatan on climate change interested only in lining his own pockets. Mr. Gore is also a hypocrite on the issue of carbon footprints and was found to have a personal carbon footprint that exceeded in a month what an average American was accused of having in a whole year. Al Gore has made millions by selling bogus carbon credits to the gullible with little or no accountability of what is being done with the money, while refusing to debate anyone on the subject, preferring to use his blind supporters to try and shut up his critics. Sadly, the escalating disclosures are all going against Al Gore and the scientists he selectively chooses to believe, and his policy prescriptions would destroy the world economy while not even achieving his goals of controlling the so-called greenhouse gases. The British High Court judge heard testimony from scientists on both sides of the climate change controversy before ruling that Al Gore had deliberately included NINE brazen falsehoods in his film without any qualification after knowing they were false. The judge required high school kids to be warned about these falsehoods and said that the film was clearly a propaganda film. In spite of this we recently heard Al Gore continue to implausibly defend one of his nine falsehoods, that polar bears are endangered due to climate change, even though their numbers have INCREASED considerably. Carmen wrote: I recommend you see another film however - *The Age of Stupid* which is very appropriate for people with your mentality. It will shock you into the reality of climate change for once and for all. Mario responds: Wouldn't the really stupid people be the ones who insisted that the global temperature was rising throughout the last decade, whereas it was not? Carmen apparently confuses factless bluster and puerile insults with intelligence and knowledge on a serious and complex subject. This attitude puts Carmen on the same side of the debate as Al Gore, Rajendra Pachauri, Robert Mugabe and Hugo Chavez. Not good company to be in. Carmen wrote: Last but not least, I will *not engage anymore in any further discussions*no matter what you
[Goanet] Subject: Conflicts of interest - the dirty politics behind
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:43:45 -0800 (PST) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com If I understand Mario's ideological position on this issue correctly it is the following: 1. He does not deny that there is strong scientific evidence for global warming. Mario responds: Santosh's ideological understanding of my common sense position on the issue of climate change and what we can do about it has some accurate observations which he has gleaned from what I have written on the subject over the years. However, his ideology has added some mirchi-masala to many of his observations which therefore need context, clarification, amplification and perhaps even correction, as shown below. His Item 1 is correct if we exclude 1940 to 1980 and 1998 on. During these periods the earth did not warm, even cooled slightly, even though the level of the clear plant food CO2 rose significantly during both periods, from a combination of natural and man-made causes. When environmental extremists speak of HUGE increases in CO2, we need to keep in mind that CO2 is probably at its highest point in recent history right now, and yet is only 0.039% of the earth's atmosphere, and only about one-third, or 0.013%, of it is man-made. Of course, these amounts are so small they are never mentioned. All we hear about are the HUGE increases which is designed to make the situation sound more ominous. Santosh wrote: 2. He does not deny the evidence that there has been a continuous increase in the carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere, beginning with the onset of the industrial age. Mario responds: Correct. The trace amounts of the clear plant food CO2 have been rising, from a level of about 0.028%, so now we have larger trace amounts of about 0.039%. This is good for plant growth. From the beginning of the industrial age humans have apparently added 0.013% to natural CO2. Just think about what it will take to reverse this. Even shutting down all human activity would not be enough. Thank God the global warming is most likely being caused by the sun and we don't have to shut down all human activity worldwide once we expose the scientific charade. Santosh wrote: 3. He does not deny that Svante Arrhenius showed conclusively that very tiny amounts of carbon dioxide produce a greenhouse effect. Mario responds: This theory by good old Svante Arrhenius says that 0.039% of the earth's atmosphere of a clear gas, CO2, can magically make 100% of the atmosphere act like a greenhouse. BTW, a greenhouse in common parlance is a positive barrier that traps heat in order to grow crops in winter. I think old Svante Arrhenius was pulling our leg:-)) Either that or old Svante failed to observe that summers are warmer than winters and days are warmer than nights and Pluto and Mars are also warming without any humans around to create additional CO2. Why? Eureka! Because of the effects of the sun. QED. I would have to say that if old Svante's comical finding, which has no rational common sense behind it, was conclusive, we would not have had decades long interruptions in the rise in global temperatures. Nor would we have had the serious debate that has been raging among climate scientists, many of whom were seriously warning us of the dangers of global cooling back in the early to mid 1970s even as CO2 levels were rising. Are you getting the picture? Many climate scientists have a far more plausible cause for global warming and cooling than some trace percentage of clear plant food that magically causes the entire atmosphere to trap heat, i.e. the effect of the sun. Santosh wrote: 4. He does not deny that certain changes are occurring in the polar ice caps and in the oceans on the earth. Mario responds: Certain changes are constantly taking place. Whether such drastic changes are due to the 0.74 C rise in global temperatures since 1900 to 1998 sounds more like a joke to me. That's 0.0074 C per year. Not enough to run out and buy that additional air-conditioner yet:-)) Santosh wrote: 5. He does not deny that a majority of climate scientists contend based on theory and physical evidence that the carbon dioxide greenhouse effect is the cause of global warming, and therefore the latter is anthropogenic in nature. Mario responds: I think when a majority of scientists agree on a highly controversial theory that provides inconsistent predictive results but makes it easier for them to get research grants due to the alarm caused, and also has highly questionable political characters, who are known to favor one-world forms of government insisting on serious economic policy prescriptions that turn back the economic clock a century or more and impinge on the national sovereignty of every country in the world, we need to be very careful in insisting that dissenting scientists are wrong than we have been over the last several years. Scurrilous accusations by politicians and even
Re: [Goanet] Conflicts of interest - the dirty politics behind
Mario wrote: The funniest part of their speeches was when they thrashed capitalism as a failed system, then turned around and demanded that the capitalists pay THEM billions of dollars to clean up their environments:-)) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 21:29:24 -0500 From: Bosco D bos...@canada.com From a Goan context is the suggestion being made that students and alumni of Chowgule College, Dempo College, etc, should not protest the drawbacks of mining in Goa because they attended schools setup by philantrophists of the Chowgule and Dempo families?? Mario responds: The Goan context referred to is bogus. The point I was making is that if capitalism is such a failed system relative to Hugo Chavez's communism, his communist country would not need handouts from capitalism to clean up their environment. Hugo Chavez's Venezuela is one of the economic basket cases in the world in spite of all his God given oil reserves and has a 60% poverty rate, which is what makes his criticizing capitalism so ludicrous. Wise up. The closer equivalent of Bosco's Goan mining analogy would be if Goan miners were to suggest that other industries in Goa were destroying the Goan environment. Mario previously wrote: WARNING: The author, Tim Ball, Ph.D. is a skeptic when it comes to blaming puny humans for climate changes. Bosco wrote: Tim Ball?? The less said the better. Is that the best skeptic around?? Here is a snippet of Ball's own words [1]: Mario responds: Here we see that Bosco has been unable to point to a single thing that Tim Ball wrote in the article I had posted and respond to it, and instead is trying to scurrilously cast general aspersions on Mr. Ball using his comments made in another situation out of context, to try and deflect attention from what he wrote about the farce in Copenhagen. Whether you agree with him or not Mr. Ball is a climate scientist. Bosco selectively swallows whatever Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri tell him, neither of whom are climate scientists. One of the problems with the climate change debate is that its most highly acclaimed spokespersons are documented charlatans like Mr. Gore and Mr. Pachauri who are lining their own pockets. The foremost climate scientists from the University of East Anglia in Britain were also recently shown to have ulterior motives and engaging in scurrilous unscientific behavior including destroying raw data, conspiring to keep data from scientists who may disagree, and conspiring to keep the work of opposing scientists from being peer reviewed and published. Such behavior from scientists should make real research scientists like Santosh cringe and put a question mark over the the validity of their entire body of work. For the last ten years the environmental extremists have been telling us the earth is going to hell and we must destroy only the western economies in order to save the world. Now we find that the earth has not warmed since 1998.
[Goanet] Salvador do Mundo have constructed a Santa Claus of recycled material
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:14:55 -0800 (PST) From: renebarreto goan...@yahoo.co.uk As the world is recovering from the hangover of Copenhagen, this christmas we in Salvador do Mundo have constructed a Santa Claus of recycled material. We hope some of you will visit our Santa in Gangoz in Salvador do Mundo. Mario responds: Making a Santa Claus out of recycled materials is good and I commend my fellow Saloikars for this enterprising private initiative. Regarding the expensive party in Copenhagen, the world saw the spectacle of a group of environmental extremists who used taxpayer money to get drunk with self-proclaimed power while creating a huge carbon footprint in their brazen attempt to hijack billions of dollars from the western economies, also telling them how to run their economies for the benefit, not of their own citizens, but of the hijackers:-)) The following Editorial from an American newspaper may pour some cold water on their hangover with an opposing point of view that may help them recover from their buzz more quickly: http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/climate-folly-79787117.html Excerpt: Has there ever been a more pitiful example of misguided nonsense, aggressive idiocy and functional stupidity than last week's climate change conference in Copenhagen? The weeklong orgy of excess -- to which most participants arrived in plush, carbon-emitting private jets and were shuttled around in limos -- was nothing more than another leftist shakedown of wealthy nations on behalf of developing countries. This time in the name of saving the planet. Promoting panic in the name of global warming is the Trojan horse for those who seek to overhaul the world economy by subverting capitalism and advancing collectivism. There is absolutely no evidence that mandating strict carbon emission standards will do anything at all to solve the perceived problem. Instead, we were treated to another U.N. gathering at which Third World hacks such as Hugo Chavez are applauded while Western ideals are dismissed and derided. Unless, of course, those Western nations agree to cough up cash to dictatorial kleptocrats. [end of excerpt]
[Goanet] Subject: Conflicts of interest - the dirty politics behind
Mario wrote: How do you like this can of worms? Major conflicts of interest stain the science and the scientists and the politicians behind the efforts to control global warming. etc etc Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:46:01 + From: Carmen Miranda carmitamira...@gmail.com I wonder which oil company is paying Mario Goveia to deny climate change and come up with imaginary cans of worms Mario responds: Should anyone engage in such bluster without a single fact at their disposal? Isn't this precisely why Goanet needs my lone voice of reason, truth and shanti? I refuse to accuse her of being on Rajendra Pachauri's payroll like she is scurrilously accusing me of being paid off by some oil companies, but I am left to wonder why Carmen is so strenuously denying Pachauri's unethical conflicts of interest that have now been exposed in a major London newspaper, the same town where she lives: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6847227/Questions-over-business-deals-of-UN-climate-change-guru-Dr-Rajendra-Pachauri.html Shouldn't Carmen be attacking her local newapaper, the Telegraph, for exposing Pachauri's unethical conflicts of interest if she has some special information that the new report is false? Living in London surely Carmen knows that Pachauri's co-conspirator on the environment, Al Gore's phony film, The Inconvenient Truth, inconveniently requires a British High Court imposed warning to school kids in Britain before it can be shown to them so that they know it is as whimsical as a Mickey Mouse movie. Birds of a feather and all that: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article2633838.ece Carmen wrote: He must be also living in another planet.here on Earth, we unfortunately are already suffering the effects of climate change caused by global warming. Given Mario's planet is actually coolinghe must be somewhere else in the solar systemand I hope he stays there! Mario responds: The last time I checked, I was living on a planet called America, where we don't much like elites who believe in a one-world government headquartered at the UN where so many of the members are dictators. The most popular speakers at the recent tamasha in Copenhagen were the brilliant economic leaders Robert Mugabe and Hugo Chavez. If that doesn't tell you something about that event nothing else will. The funniest part of their speeches was when they thrashed capitalism as a failed system, then turned around and demanded that the capitalists pay THEM billions of dollars to clean up their environments:-)) But, how can someone who lives in London be a decade out of date on such important information as the trend in average global temperature? Apparently the latest news hasn't filtered up to the environmental elite in London even as they tell the rest of us peasants that they know what's good for everyone else better than we do. Perhaps this is why the British P.M. and Prince of Wales seem so wilfully uninformed about what is going on in the environment. I have bad news for all of them: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703939404574567423917025400.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular Not knowing what's going on on planet Earth, how would we expect them to know that Pluto and Mars are also warming without a single human, or even an evil American, anywhere to be found:-)) http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming031307.htm Here is an interesting report on the EXPENSIVE - at taxpayer's expense - and ENVIRONMENTALLY DAMAGING tamasha that went on in Copemhagen last week: WARNING: The author, Tim Ball, Ph.D. is a skeptic when it comes to blaming puny humans for climate changes. Chelas of Al Gore and Rajendra Pachauri may be traumatised by his observations and opinions. http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18148 Excerpt: World leaders participated in a scandalous conference in Copenhagen. Officially it was Conference of the Parties (COP) 15 to monitor progress on climate change begun in 1995 at COP 1 in Berlin. They’ve consistently and blindly accepted the false claim human CO2 is causing climate change. COP 3 produced the Kyoto Accord to punish developed nations and redistribute wealth. It’s due to expire in 2012 and COP 15 was to keep the process going. Few supported it more than Obama so he had to salvage the process. Don’t Confuse Me With Facts World leaders pursued policies while refusing to understand the issue. They ignored all evidence, silenced any debate, and disdained polls showing an increasing majority rejected the science. Finally, they ignored proof the science was deliberately and criminally falsified. [end of excerpt] I would ask Carmen and anyone else to address their responses to the sources of information mentioned in the links above because I have nothing to add to anyone who doesn't know what has been going on in this area.
