Re: [h-cost] Boning and corsets for musicians
Greetings... When corseting opera singers (who some actually like their corsets for the proper posture it gives them) we would have then take a deep breath before the final lacingand laced them up snug, but not tight, while they held their breath. When they do let their breath out, the corset is not as snug as it should be for a normal activity, but the shape is there and, again, the posture. The musicians cannot slouch in their seats but must sit up straight. Sitting in a corset has been possible for centuries now... even in a bustle. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Easy way to get a hand sewn T-Tunic (Lavolta Press)
Would you buy a slightly rundown Victorian house and tear it up to sell off the pieces and remake it into a modern home? Why not? People do all the time. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A hoopskirt for your entertainment
I have one of those! Found it at a flea market in NC. A traveling hoop...tho' not very graceful. It expands a bit larger than the pic on ebay. -Original Message- From: Laura Rubin rubin.lau...@gmail.com To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Wed, Dec 12, 2012 3:12 pm Subject: [h-cost] A hoopskirt for your entertainment http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Hoop-Skirt-/230894469819 This was posted recently in a group I'm in by someone who's pretty convinced that it's period. Plastic through and through but still entertaining! I love the collapsing struts and the hatbox you can store it in. -Laura ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Boning for Edwardian/Titanic Era dresses
Sometimes there was a bit of boning in the gown, as well. ** Every upscale gown from the teens I've seen always has a boned under-structure no matter how draped and flowing the gown is. It usually takes the form of a muslin or glazed cotton sleeveless bodice that ends at the raised waist that is lightly boned front and back and closes with hooks and eyes CF no matter how the gown closes. This is what the drapery of the gown is usually tacked to. Many gowns are made to look like layered garments, sometimes like a high necked bodice with an unstructured draped flowy thing over this all tacked to the boned under- bodice The closings can get ridiculously complicated to make the draped part look like it's just been thrown on and it fell perfectly all by itself with all manner of little hooks and eyes or snaps on the side or around the back or on one shoulder...whatever but the boned under-bodice always closes CF. This under- bodice never shows! BTW... zip ties/ cable ties work well for boning this type of structure. They should be narrow, but because of the raised waist, need never bee too long (like 9 -12 at the most). You can use small cable ties from Lowe's. Also... I find the stuff Rose wears in the film Titanic to not be very period. Her stuff is beaded to death but the feel and shapes and logic of her gowns to me shows the designer doesn't get the period. The extras are better dressed. And her clothes are utterly conventional for the time not very forward or avant garde like her character is supposed to be. For a REAL high-brow look from this period I suggest you check out the film Wings of the Dove designed by Sandy Powell. It's full of uber-rich high society types in forward fashion of the time (especially Charlotte Rampling) -Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:12 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Boning for Edwardian/Titanic Era dresses I've seen folks use long zip ties for light boning! Ends cut off, of course ;) You can buy heavier-than usual ones at a specialty hardware store, or perhaps a shipping specialty store (not ups! they're consumer grade) ==Marjorie Wilser @..@ @..@ @..@ Three Toad Press http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Jul 20, 2012, at 8:54 AM, Carol Kocian wrote: Hi Rachael, Sometimes there was a bit of boning in the gown, as well. Even with a corset, the gown could ride up. Generally it was still whalebone, split into thinner widths. Plastic featherboning is supposed to mimic actual feather shafts used for boning. I heard that from a friend but don't have any actual source. Anyway, the featherboning should be enough to keep the gown seams smooth, it's just not enough support for a corset. Rigilene is another light stiffener that will work, and is flatter that featherboning. Something else that works in a pinch is horsehair braid — I use one piece as a base, and stretch another piece to zigzag on top of it. The ends have to be tucked into fabric, though, or else those little nylon strands will poke. The good news is, you can add the seam boning after the gown is made, so you can try it on first to see if you need it. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Meaning of breeches in late 16th to mid-17th c. English
Breeches is an English term. Like culotte is the French term (sans culottes were French revolutionaries who wore pantalon). And even Jodhpurs were those riding pants with wide hips (now, just riding pants) worn traditionally in duh Jodhpur, India. for riding. So I'd say when a 16th century English writer talks about breeches... he really just means whatever pants local people wear. But saying men in Persia wear no breeches implies they don't wear tight, knee-length pants. I don't think he would consider full persian pants to be breeches. -Original Message- From: Data-Samtak Susan pasov...@aol.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Meaning of breeches in late 16th to mid-17th c. English In the 21st Century, horseback riding pants are still called breeches, especially the ones that are a few inches shorter and end above the ankle to be worn inside tall slim boots aka riding boots. The longer version that cover the ankle , usually with a cuff, (so not suited for tucking into tall slim boots comfortably) are sometimes still referred to as jodphurs. Of curse the Western Wear pants are called Jeans, usually made of denim, but not exclusively, which can be tucked into the shorter height Western Boot, or left covering the boot tops. Susan On Jul 20, 12, at 2:41 PM, Jill wrote: Breeches were and still are outer wear. In Persia the men would have, as some still do today, wear long robes and any trousers (of any desciption) worn would not be immediately apparent. Don't take the description written in 16th and 17th centuries to be valid in modern language. For example - for someone to be seen naked in the 17th century didn't mean to be bare and without clothing, it meant to be seen in your underwear (which was a big no no). Jill At 19:27 20/07/2012, you wrote: I'm trying to determine what the word breeches meant - did it mean underpants only, or did it have other meanings, for example, knee-length or shorter trousers - from the late 16th through mid-17th centuries. I ask because visitors to Persia commented that the men wore no breeches and i'm trying to determine the implications. I have seen knee-length trousers called breeches in parts of 16th c. Europe - garments that could be outer wear. As certain details of European clothing are outside my expertise, i am asking the collective wisdom here. Thank you. Urtatim al-Qurtubiyya SCA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume www.gjh.me.uk Growing old is inevitable but growing up is optional ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help - shredding silk :((
Do you mean where you cut the fabric it's fraying? Dupioni does that. In actual period gowns, the bodice (at least) is usually flat lined in glazed cotton. The seams are bound in seam binding. Often in a contrasting color. Curved seams are not just clipped to lay flat, they are scalloped (the clipped sections are rounded off) which makes it easier to bind. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Color images of summer cotton frocks, 1917-1918
Period magazines? Can they print color photos in 1918? I mean in a magazine. Would such a thing be cost effective back then? The cover, most like. I dunno. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1958 prom dress
And the fabric turned bright pink when ironed, and cooled to its original blue. Ah synthetic changeable taffeta! But research for this is very easy to come by. I did a show that took place in 1957 and in the magazine section of the library there was so much research I got overwhelmed! I mean, I looked at a couple of years earlier too, and just from fashion/ teen magazines I could see that in 1957 the waist, where the full skirts were gathered on, dropped about 2 below the natural waist. This detail was gone by 1959! So check out mags in your local library and you will have so much research you won't know what to do with it! I'm sure, some spring editions will have whole sections of prom dresses. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett regency stays pattern
I believe it says what the sizes of everything is at the beginning of the book. -Original Message- From: Maggie Halberg hhalb94...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 2:45 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett regency stays pattern I've not used that specific pattern but I have used several others. When scaled up to full size they run in the small end of sizing. She was generally making patterns for actresses who run towards the petite end of things. Maggie H. -Original Message- From: Aylwen Gardiner-Garden aylwe...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 7:32 pm Subject: [h-cost] Jean Hunnisett regency stays pattern Has anyone here made this pattern up? I was wondering what the expected bust / waist / hip measurements were. Many thanks, Aylwen Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy www.earthlydelights.com.au http://edhda.eventbrite.com http://aylwen.blogspot.com http://www.janeaustenfestival.com.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1860s Mourning and Underpinnings
1860's underpinnings were white ** They are also traditionally red. Especially in wool. Like wool flannel petticoats or bloomers. But I've seen red bustles and hoopskirts and cage hoops. Also red silk petticoats. I've never seen a red chemise though The only black underpinning items I've seen are corsets and petticoats, Usually silk. Usually very fine. Of course mourning has all kinds of rules. It depends on how fussy one wants to get as to how close one follows them. There's usually 1st a period of all black, then a time where white collars and cuffs and things can be worn with the black. Then a period where purple is OK. And then of course there's 1/2 mourning. None of these require black undies though.. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Source for buttons
As a matter of fact Jo Anns might even do that for you... ** They will. I needed someting like 42 buttons for an 18th century coat and Jo Ann's had the perfect ones...on sale. But of course they only had like 15 of them. I ordered the rest I needed and even though they came 2 weeks later, they were all the sale price. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows
I must admit I love the Jeremy Brett Hound of the Baskervilles and Sign of Four. But some of the others in that seriesyikes! The costuming for the series was understated and very realistic and believable with some beautiful details. -Original Message- From: lisa58 lis...@juno.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Dec 16, 2011 12:48 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Sherlock Holmes A Game of Shadows I wasn't even able to get through the FIRST movie in this series, and it was because of the same issues I read about in the review of THIS movie. And Im a Sherlock Holmes FANATIC. The best Sherlock Holmes EVER, and the best costumes, were int he Russian version of Sherlock Holmes form the 1970's and 1980's. Yours in cosutming,Lisa A On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:09:40 -0800 Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com writes: I was really looking forward to it till I saw this review. Has anyone here seen it, and how are the costumes? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/16/DDEI1MCACK.DT L Fran Lavolta Press Books of historic clothing and needlework patterns www.lavoltapress.com www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Not tying your bonnet strings ?
Most 19th century bonnets I've seen, real and costume, will stay on as well as any hat and the strings don't really keep it on, except maybe in windy weather or in an open coach. I'm willing to bet that many times the tying of one's bonnet string, and how they are to be tied is dictated by fads and fashion. There are also those periods where linen caps are worn in the house and under bonnets, and they do seem to have practical strings and in the 18th century are sometimes clearly meant to be tied under the chin for the look. Just how many things are you to tie under your chin? Then there those 1870-80's bonnets that tie behind As to gloves, you just know there's a myriad of Victorian rules coverning those in society. I know the length has to do with when one wears a certain length. This seems practical as an evening dress might have no sleeves(so long gloves) and a day dress only requires shorter gloves. But wearing them all the time is part of that I don't have to do anything for myself... I have servants, y'know thing. I love those Victorian dinner scenes (like in Age of Innocence) where the ladies at the table have their hands out of the gloves with the glove fingers tucked into the wrist opening. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Storing a wedding gown.
Greetings Earthings, A friend wants to pack up her wedding gown for safe keeping but didn' like the price of having someone do it for her. The gown is not silk or anything. It's all synthetic I think. (It's really beautiful even if it is synthetic) I told her she just needs to stuff it and wrap it in acid free tissue paper and put it in a box that is not plastic. I remember we used to store things in the costume shop at school, and also a friend of mine that collected vintage, in waxed cardboard boxes. Was my advice sound, d'ya think? Also, I don't know a source for acid free tissue or boxes anymore but I confess, I haven't done a search online or anything yet. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Gray Hunter ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
One would think that since the flower existed before the edge that the edge would have been named after the flower. *** Not so. There is no reason the term for the edging could not have been applied to the flower later. After all, the flower is also called Dianthus. If you ask a gardener, they will say they are also called cottage pinks because the edge resembles a pinked fabric edge... not the color. But the color name does seem to come from the color the flowers are so you may be right. But it does not necessarily follow. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
the flower is also called Dianthus. BTW... Dianthus means flower of Zeus in Greek. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Pink?
From a layman's perspective, it is interesting to find out that a pink is a type of carnation. sweet williams are pinks too, I believe. Let's see Wikipedia says: Dianthus is a genus of about 300 species of flowering plants in the family Caryophyllaceae, native mainly to Europe and Asia, with a few species extending south to north Africa, and one species (D. repens) in arctic North America. Common names include carnation (D. caryophyllus), pink (D. plumarius and related species) and sweet William (D. barbatus). The name Dianthus is from the Greek words dios(god) and anthos (flower), and was cited by the Greek botanist Theophrastus. also The color pink may be named after the flower, coming from the frilled edge of the flowers: the verb pink dates from the 14th century and means to decorate with a perforated or punched pattern (maybe from German pinken = to peck). Source: Collins Dictionary. This verb sense is also used in the name of pinking shears. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
So far, we have found one pair of split drawers in the vast attic-sized pile, Really! That's interesting. I've seen dozens but they are all kinda early. The seam gets sewn up I'd say (guess really) by the 1860's and by the 1880's you have combos... a bodice part and the legs part in one. But I'm no expert on this subject. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Were drawers worn as early as 1845 ** Oh yes. But remember, they were two separate legs sewn to one waistband... the crotch seam isn't sewn up until later in the century. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1845 button closure -- front or back?
Even if the marking were on the front, ladies' shifts were never intended to be viewed by anybody, so who would care where a laundry mark was placed? I don't know about this. The chemises I've got are embroidered, and couched, especially on the narrow yolks and hems. Even if no one was meant to see them (but servants and the wearer) they certainly care how they look ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1840s question
The bodices seem to all be quilted or very fitted for each lady. They are pleated or gathered to a tight fitting lining up to the bust area and then the pleats release. Bodices in this period are often boned, certainly down the CF (keeps the point down) but also at the sides and inbetween. A friend who collects period gowns has several with major boning all over. Thick, like 1/4 thick, whalebone. This is all worn with a corset. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1840s question
The simple gown you envision is very Jane Eyre and exists. Complicated sleeves with pleating and poufs of course exist too, and sleeves were more complicated early in the decade. The bell shaped sleeve is the start of the 1850's look so they are near the end of the decade. It's been my experience that plain fabrics, and things like shot taffeta, will usually have some self fabric thing going on, like pleatings, and ruchings on the sleeves, bodice and sometimes the skirt. Fabrics with a pattern, print or stripe are often more plain, letting the patterns do the decorating like the bodice cut on the bias with stripes meeting down CF in a chevron. The 2 piece tight sleeves will often have the stripe running on the straight of grain at the top, but as the sleeve pattern curves, the stripes end up on the bias on the lower part of the sleeve.(a look I like). One thing that catches the period, and would do it in a simple gown, is the deep point CF and long sleeves with a wide! horizontal decolletage, even in day wear.(I've seen one gown with longish mancherons, or a short sleeve from under the long tight sleeve emerged.It turned out the long sleeve buttoned in several places to a small short sleeve made of lining hidden under the mancheron. The lower sleeve could be removed, leaving the short sleeve mancheron. This made the gown an evening gown.) Another great detail is how the skirt is attached. Usually gathered or tightly pleated all the way 'round the waisteven down and around the point. -Original Message- From: Elizabeth Walpole elizabeth.r.walp...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 7:21 pm Subject: [h-cost] 1840s question Hello everyone, I'm trying to pin down some plans for some taffeta I bought a while ago. When I bought it I had a picture in my mind of what I thought of as a 'typical' 1840s dress with a very plain dart-fitted bodice (perhaps with a pointed waist) and tight sleeves. But now that I'm actually looking at images and extant garments that look like what I'm thinking of. What I've seen is either a shirred/fan front bodice with plain fitted sleeves or a darted bodice with rather more complicated sleeves (e.g. the puff below the elbow or some variation on a trumpet/funnel shaped sleeve) So essentially what I'm asking from the collected 19th century wisdom on this list, is my idea a rarity or non existent or perhaps it belongs to another era. Elizabeth -- -- Elizabeth Walpole http://magpiecostumer.wordpress.com/ http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th c Headdress Help
Is this it? http://www.tara.tcd.ie/handle/2262/25836 Try here... http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/2262/25836/1/ertk1721.jpg -Original Message- From: Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 11:03 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] 15th c Headdress Help Guenievre's message on Monday (6/20) has the link. Sorry, I can't repost it from here. Gwenhwyfaer/Ginni Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com 6/22/11 11:58 AM Pictures??? On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Claire Clarke angha...@adam.com.auwrote: Margaret Fitzgerald tomb effigy, in St. Canice's Cathedral, Kilkenny, Ireland -- -Sg- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] loose gown
Oh, I see lots of nice, and some rather incorrect outfits in this movie clip. Indeed. And the aristocacy is so delightfully cruel, isn't it? :-) Then they dance a sort of La Volta (too early for that too, I think) instead of a Galliard. But from the late 1960's to the early 80's was the heyday of period accuracy in costume design. Even though nothing is museum accurate (nor should they be for a film), there is great respect for whatever period the project is set.. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] some questions about renaissance,
There is a Kirtle with a Ropa (I think that's what the over-dress is called) over it in Janet Arnold. Oh lookhere's an image of it: http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/loosekirtle.html and a diary of the making of the kirtle too. I thought there was also a Ropa that went over this (It's clearly supposed to be covered up in the back!) -Original Message- From: Leif og Bjarne Drews drews...@post12.tele.dk To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sat, May 14, 2011 12:11 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] some questions about renaissance, Thankyou for the link otisto, I have thoaght about this kind of dress being a narrow dress two, so the dress inside the overdress is a kirtle right? Nice to see collour to this fashion, in Denmark almost every portrait is showing black fashion, guess its because Denmark was a prottestant country. I have thoaght about making the dress something like this. Bjarne -Oprindelig meddelelse- From: otsisto Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2011 9:20 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] some questions about renaissance, Welcome back! :) Could this be what is refered to as a narrow gown? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elisabeth_von_Brandenburg_1510-1558.jpg http://tinyurl.com/5tpsv3d De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] costumes in Dangerous Liaisons
And didn't you love that image where Glenn Close gets out of the carriage and her face is hidden by the hat and then she lifts her face and changes her expression? In black and yellow a hornet to stir up a nest. The whole film is beautifully designed. James Acheson won an Oscar for it. Many of the patterns came from Janet Arnold... as a starting point. It is set in the 1760's but in actuality, the play (book) is closer to the Revolution. There's even a line about The century is drawing to its close. I heard someone who worked on the film complain it was in the wrong period, and too English in its cut but ... whatever It works beautifully. Let's see what other costume gossip did I hear from the film? (I worked on Last of the Mohicans which was designed by James Acheson too, until he quit and had his name taken off. Michael Man kept choosing fabrics and switching costumes until it didn't look like Mr. Achenson's work) Michelle Pfeiffer's gown for the Beyond my control break up scene was made from a sari. John Malcovich's black coat and waistcoat for that scene has embroidery from a long runner, or was it bed hangings?... anyway, they were carefully cut out and couched down and then enhanced with pearls. There was only enough for one coat and 2 waistcoats, so the coats come off in the duel... there being no backups. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1830's fashion
Goday's Lady's magazine starts in the 1830's in Philadelphia I believe. Here's a link http://www.accessible.com/accessible/aboutGL.jsp But fashion plates don't always get the idea of what real people are wearing (just like today) so it's good to look at the real thing. There are fine examples of real gowns in that big thick book of fashion exhibits by the Kyoto Museum. (Is it just called Fashion? I can't remember) Here's a lovely walking gown at the Met Museum in NYC scroll about halfway down the page: http://knot-cha-cha.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html And I always like to see what the gowns look like in movement, on a person. So I'll look at something in film or TV that is well designed remembering they are costumes not actual gowns of course. BBC did a miniseries of Wives and Daughters which is in the 1830's. Check that out. -Original Message- From: e...@huskers.unl.edu e...@huskers.unl.edu To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 2:10 am Subject: [h-cost] 1830's fashion A friend is looking for sources on 1830's fashion, specifically in Washington, DC (if that ends up being relevant), and I'm rather out of my depth. What are the best sources for that era? What would you recommend to someone who isn't a costume historian but would like to get the details right in a description? Emma ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
there were many corset patterns that used gores - yet many of the current commercial patterns focus on those without. Is there a reason for this that anyone might be aware of? ** Gores come in when the conical 18th century corset started to morph into the curvy 19th century look. If one cuts a slit in the bust area of a conical corset, the slits will spread open to form cups for the breast. Fill those spread apart slits with fabric and you have gussets. Same with hips as the corset grows longer. Around the 1850's, the French corset becomes popular. That is one with shaped pieces rather than added gussets. It persists and becomes the norm because it can be manipulated easier than gores. It is easier to change the shape and to fit and alter. It takes less time to manufacture in an assembly line way. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
Perhaps the term spoon busk is the source of the confusion. But a spoon busk is this: http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=B-GSBSP12Category_Code=BProduct_Count=28 I you look in your Corsets and Crinolines you will not find one before the 1870's... or after the 1890s. Totally Victorian artifact. The wooden busks you see in the 18th and early 19th centuries are not spoon busks. -Original Message- From: Michael Deibert michaeljdeib...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I forgot to add: I have never seen a spoon busk that wasn't a split busk. I have never seen an 18th century busk that WAS a split busk. -Original Message- From: albert...@aol.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:31 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions Perhaps the term spoon busk is the source of the confusion. But a spoon busk is this: http://store.corsetmaking.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=B-GSBSP12Category_Code=BProduct_Count=28 I you look in your Corsets and Crinolines you will not find one before the 1870's... or after the 1890s. Totally Victorian artifact. The wooden busks you see in the 18th and early 19th centuries are not spoon busks. -Original Message- From: Michael Deibert michaeljdeib...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions I hope I'm not asking for too much, but could we perhaps have some references - for both viewpoints. Perhaps it's just a simple confusion or misunderstanding? And perhaps both could be right. But until we have references to either or both if that be the case, I'd like to avoid being the start of an arguement on here! Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 12:50 PM, albert...@aol.com wrote: The spoon busk was quite before the 19th C. so it wouldn't be considered for the Victorian period anyway. *** The spoon busk is almost exclusively 1870s... so it is VERY victorian. _ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Corset patterns and research questions
I am specifically hoping to find Victorian era corset patterns with hip and/or bust gores. One of my fave corset patterns of all time is Past Pattern's # 708 1845 -1860. http://www.pastpatterns.com/708.html I find it works for 1820's to early 1870's The pattern is lightly boned but I have added bones between the bones on the pattern and one could add more. The shape is divine! After the late 1860's, early 1870's you'll need another more rigid shape. A pattern like Past Pattern's #213. http://www.pastpatterns.com/213.html These should do until you come to the straight front corset of the early 1900's. This is where Past Patterns and I part ways. DO NOT GET their pattern #106 http://www.pastpatterns.com/106.html It is NOT what is illustrated on the front and the patter requires so much tweaking that you might as well start from scratch. Hate it! - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] I guess this counts as a historical costume
M bacon! -Original Message- From: Claire Clarke angha...@adam.com.au To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sat, Feb 12, 2011 1:00 am Subject: [h-cost] I guess this counts as a historical costume And, hey, he won first prize! http://crushable.com/other-stuff/the-daily-wtf-hundred-year-old-bacon-costum e/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question about fabric for gown
This period is very structured. It is not known for flowing clingy fabrics. Heavy fabrics have body, wools and velvets and grograin. Light fabrics are crisp, like paper taffeta and organdy. Laces are bold and heavy and passamentry is popular ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c. blue jeans
Interesting. Of course, what is this fabric we call denim? A heavy-ish cotton twill dyed indigo. It seems quite logical that an old and common weave used with a old and common dye would come up sooner than later. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Advice on fitting 18th c stays
I'm a 2d, and have supported the works by a stuffed, rolled-up sock inside the straight front :) In college, when we did The Country Wife, some of the larger girls needed what we called a sausage...a padded roll that went under the bust the width of the front of the corset. We made them for each girl. They were merely tacked to the inside of the corset so they could be adjusted if necessary and wouldn't disappear between shows. Or could go away altogether because... In reality, it shouldn't be needed. The idea of the corset is not to get cleavage or lift the boobs under her chin (Though many designers go for that in a bawdy 18th century comedy). The corset should lift and support and slightly compress the bust into a higher-than-natural, smooth prow shape. Many corsets have a CF seam that flares gently and slightly at the top. But all this takes time to get right, and some padding under the bust looks good sogo for it! Also, a secret to fitting are the shoulder straps. where they attach to the front (I always leave that to the actual fitting...or make it so it laces together and is adjustable) and how small and snug the armseyes they create are. They should be as snug as the girls can stand it. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest
Personally, I'd use a regular shirt maybe take the collar off and replace it with a rectangular one (or cut it or fold it into a rectangle) and wear a stock (a long rectangle wrapped around the neck) or perhaps even a girl's cotton blouse with poofy sleeves with these things done to it. But I'd spend my efforts on an 18th century waistcoat to go over the shirt. They are easy to make and the patterns made by Simplicity or other commercial companies are not dreadfully off the mark. (You wouldn't have to do the real pockets, just the flaps). Also, take a pair of plain pants, cut them off to make breeches, using the cut off part of the legs to make the knee bands. This is a trick I've used often when QD was required. The waistcoat can cover the fly... but the lack of a half fall is not that much of a problem really. Now you'll need stockings (tights) and plain shoes. A buckle with a fake tongue on elastic can cover the lacings and make them look more period. Are there no costume/party rental places within driving distance? What with Teabaggers and stuff, colonial things must be in stock. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest
First, how low do I cut them off? Have him put the pants on, sit, and then mark where they come to just below the knee. Sometimes you have to piece the knee bands because what you cut off the pants isn't long enough to get the knee measurement out of in one piece but the band only needs to be 1 wide by the knee measurement and an overlap, finished (3 x knee measurement + some overlap...so it's folded in half plus seam allowance and don't forget allowance on the pants when you cut them short! You only need a 1/2 seam allowance, maybe only a 1/4). A hook and bar...like a flat skirt hook, is a good unnoticeable closure. You'll have to open up the outseam a little too so as to get his foot and calf through. When you write it down like this, it all seems so complicated, but it's not. I'd see what kind of tights you can find in the women's dept for covering the calves. They stay up, and some even look like ribbed socks. Make sure they aren't sheer You might find some moccasins with the bedroom shoes in the men's dept. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Need help on quick solution for boy's clothing, c. 1800, US Midwest
It also occurs to me that while you're at Goodwill, you might find a man's waistcoat (might have to get the whole suit) that you can quickly take up CB and at the sides to fit him snugly, but will be long enough so there is no gap showing shirt above the breeches. Braces help a lot with that, and clip-ons will do if they are under a waistcoat. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Who gives a damn about Scarlett's gowns?
The curtain dress and the red dress are my two favorites. Maestro Walter Plunket rarely designs a clunker, no? I love the wedding dress but you don't see much of it in the film. Of the lesser known gowns I love are the red dress she wears after she marries Frank Kennedy and writes the check for the taxes on Tara. And the black and white bustle-esque gown with the cut out leaves on the bell sleeves she wears when Rhett and she are walking the baby. Or is that when she's opening presents after the honeymoon? I forget. It's been a while since I've seen the film. Oh oh oh and the one with plaid and fringe she wears in the lumber mill hiring the convicts. And of course the blue rape dress with all the soutache. Then there's Raintree County ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Who gives a damn about Scarlett's gowns?
A friend of mine e-mailed me this link. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129177801ft=1f=1001 It's got pics of the 5 gowns in need. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Online fabric store having 50% off everything sale
M... the putty pink silk broadcloth looks nice. And there's a cream linen with a little self colored embroidered flower widely scattered all over it that is nice too (wish it was a lighter weight though.) I also wondered exactly what the metallic and silk crinkle looks like in person. I thought of a 20's gown or something Fortuney- like. Imagine the lavender embroidered with little coral beads or something. or stenciled with an Art Nouveau motif in a dangerous (with the lavender) color, like yellow or terra cotta or navy... or all 3 I don't need any more fabric!! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Secondary question - bride ?
Usually not the cuffs, unless the person I'm sewing for puts a lot of stress on that seam, but certainly on the side slits. I will do a bar tack on the seams where they open at the cuffs which is not a bride of course. And the side slits usually have a small gusset set into where they start to take the stress. But I also, if I have time, will do a bar tack at the points of all the gussets. I dunno if it's period or not but I'll bet it was done. It's just too sensible. -Original Message- From: Carmen Beaudry moreplen...@earthlink.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 11:07 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Secondary question - bride ? That would certainly reinforce it. Do you do the same for the lower end of side seams when they are open flaps and the cuffs? Kate Usually not the cuffs, unless the person I'm sewing for puts a lot of stress on that seam, but certainly on the side slits. Carmen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] seam treatments
The most common treatment I've found on mid-19th century original garments has both seam allowances pressed to one side. If the selvage edge has been not been used, both seam allowances are overcast together. If the selvage edge has been used, then they're just pressed to one side. During this era seam allowances are usually not pressed open. This is what I've seen on actual garments. All I would add is, most skirts in mid 19th century are straight panels sewn selvage to selvage. The selvage edge is by far the most common thing I've seen. And on almost every one, the selvages have been clipped... a little diagonal snip every 6 to 8 inches maybe. Why? This keeps the selvage from drawing up and crinkling the seam. The snips are on the bias so they won't fray so much. Seam allowances are always tiny too. These days, selvage to selvage can be a little harder to do since most fabric now is 45 wide whereas back then it might be 36 or 22 or even 18. But 3 45 wide panels is about 4 yards and a good hem yardage. However in reality hems could be 31/2 yards wide, or just to get proportions right, 4 yards may be too much or not enough and some cutting off of selvages must be done to get seams and yardages to work out. I remember an 1840's gown in a silk that frayed easily had the back panels selvage to selvage, but the front panel was narrower and had no selvage edges. Those seams had seam allowances hand whipped overcast together as one. -Original Message- From: Lists li...@genteelarts.com To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 8:24 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] seam treatments The most common treatment I've found on mid-19th century original garments has both seam allowances pressed to one side. If the selvage edge has been not been used, both seam allowances are overcast together. If the selvage edge has been used, then they're just pressed to one side. During this era seam allowances are usually not pressed open. The seam allowances on the bodice - side seams and shoulder seams - are usually pressed toward the back; skirt seams can go in either direction. Run-and-fell seams are very common on undergarments but very unusual on dresses. Regards, Carolann Schmitt cschm...@genteelarts.com www.genteelarts.com Ladies Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference, March 3-6, 2011 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] seam treatments
The skirts I have seen had seams finished by hand overcastting. But not with the seams together-you might need to let it out. ** With skirts this full, most letting out is done with redistributing the fabric as opposed to letting a seam out. Besides, the seam allowances are like 1/4 an inch! -Original Message- From: Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Jul 1, 2010 7:06 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] seam treatments The skirts I have seen had seams finished by hand overcastting. But not with the seams together-you might need to let it out. Kim BTW--I serge mine. Who's going to see them? -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Lisa A Ashton Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 5:15 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] seam treatments Hello again. Im working away on my Civil War era ensemble, and my question for today is: seam treatments for skirts--if I am using an unterlining, rather than a separately made lining, should the seams be finished in some way, left raw, or sewn together at the edge with a running stitch? Thanks in advance for the help. Yours in cosutming, Li saA ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Late 18 century questions
Mozart (he was sort of the 18th century equivilant to a punk rocker) This is why I hate the film Amadeus. Not only do the costume look like a high school student designed them and are just plain tacky, but Mozart was in no way like a Punk rocker. I saw the play on Broadway with Tim Curry and Jane Seymour. There were no outlandish costumes or wigs (Mozart just had bad taste in clothes). In fact, all the Mozart scenes were in pale, muted colors... because, the thing takes place in Salieri's demented mind. There is a huge question as to whether any of it happened at all (not so in the dreadful film). The final scene in the 1820's was bright and crisp. As for shirts, the main difference are in the collars (a plain rectangle about 3 high, 3 buttons, for the 18th century - a slightly shaped collar, 1 button at the neck with a scooped out bit CF under the chin which creates points just in front of the ears for the later shirt) The cuffs (18th C- an inch or so rectangle - 19th C -2 to 3 long with the button at the top so the cuff covers the hand a little.) Also sleeves tend to be fuller in the 18th C. Lace and ruffles are added to both at the neck slit and the cuffs in both periods though you see pleating and less lace the later it gets. Panniers are out by 1780's... but maybe not at court. The pulled up a la Polonaise is in fashion. That's all the research I'm doing for you. Have fun! (Get the director to nix the punk bit!... If not, don't worry about accuracy) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] civility
My understanding is that one or two pages were scanned and sent privately, to be used in private research. Under the copyright laws with which I am familiar (and I don't know which country's laws would apply in this case), this constitutes Fair Use, and is therefore would seem to be NOT theft or piracy. Just like going to the public library, getting the book and making Xeroxes of a few pages I know...so old fashion these days, but the same. Personally, this civility fight is stupid and both parties are exaggerating! C'mon! Play nice! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] BUTTONS
I am looking for metal (or metal look) shank buttons, with the motif of snowflakes, holly or stags. * I bought a bunch of real metal buttons with a stag on them at either Jo Ann's or Hancock but I can't remember because it was a while back. They came on a card of 3 and were heavy mental with shanks. La Mode buttons perhaps? I went to both Jo Ann's and Hancock's web site and did a search but didn't see anything. (their web sites suck!) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Victorian Hair:
In addition to directions for sponge-washing the hair without immersing the whole head--where much of the soap would likely remain in the hair after the process is over and therefore stiffen it--there are period arguments for and against vigorously immersing and washing the whole head full of hair. Arguments against: It causes headaches, earaches, toothaches, complaints of the eyes, wrinkles, and head colds. * Imagine tons of wet hair in a fireplace or coal stove heated houseon a cold day in a age without antibiotics. Which puts me in mind of one of my favorite paintings by one of my favorite artists: Sunday, Women drying their hair by John Slone.. This is 1912 so it's not really Victorian, but... http://www.metmuseum.org/special/americanstories/objectView.aspx?sid=5oid=35 Notice the length. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] lovely costume photos
The outfit made of plants are OK some are not petty though IMHO. I like the garments and fabrics frozen in water. Especially the ones out in the open in a landscape. Very cool! -Original Message- From: Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2010 10:13 pm Subject: [h-cost] lovely costume photos Check out these costumes by Nicole Dextras-made of some unusual materials! http://www.nicoledextras.com/ephemeralart/weeds/01.html Don't forget to click for the detail shots. Thanks to Christine Mauersberger for the pointer. Kim ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] lovely costume photos
I will noe post this so it makes sense The outfits made of plants are OK some are not pretty though IMHO. I like the garments and fabrics frozen in water. Especially the ones out in the open in a landscape. Very cool! -Original Message- From: albert...@aol.com To: h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 11:20 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] lovely costume photos The outfit made of plants are OK some are not petty though IMHO. I like the garments and fabrics frozen in water. Especially the ones out in the open in a landscape. Very cool! -Original Message- From: Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Apr 19, 2010 10:13 pm Subject: [h-cost] lovely costume photos Check out these costumes by Nicole Dextras-made of some unusual materials! http://www.nicoledextras.com/ephemeralart/weeds/01.html Don't forget to click for the detail shots. Thanks to Christine Mauersberger for the pointer. Kim ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves also look to be in 2 pieces. And just because you don't see an opening doesn't mean there isn't some sort of opening that is unseen in the image to get the hands through. I'm not sure what more help I can be, as sleeves are not a strong point for me. Kimiko Small *** Yes the sleeves are extra long and the tight wrist keep them from falling over the hand. I'll bet they are 2 pieces with a closure on the outseam that closes with something like hooks and eyes. The upper parts are indeed falling concentrating the ruching at the narrow bottom. If the two piece sleeve is also curved like a narrow sleeve would be cut, the bottom of the sleeve will be slightly on the bias. This will help with the rushing as well as the tightness. (also, it's not a very good painting, His right hand with the pistol is smaller than the left and I think the foreshortening of that right arm is not quite right and looks too narrow. Not so his left.) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880's ball dress
Should I ultimately just drape strips of fabric along the edge and sew it down? I would. After the gown is all made up, I would just actually drape what I wanted and baste/ hand sew it on. This is often what they did. And it can be removed or changed later easily of you want. It's not structural so it doesn't need sturdy sewing. Unless you want it somehow coming from a seam or something, I would just treat it as an applied decoration. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Look at this photo
What period/year 1860's??? Definitely. Even though she's appears to be sitting, the waist looks a tad high. This would put it towards the end of the decade ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 20th c. Men's Hats
So, what do you call the billed, low-profile caps similar to (but more streamlined) the one on Redford in the Great Gatsby? An Ivy Caphas a flat top and slouches to the front. If the top is made of several triangular shapes, usually with a button at the point where they meet, we used to call that a Newsie after news boys. Then there a Forage Cap...popular for boys in the mid 19th century. Its had a high band and a sometimes sorta stiff shaped crown... kinda like a cupcake. Let's see if I can find pics... Ivy cap http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4120KGJQHBL.jpg Newsie (they call it a Newsboy) http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/main/images/naj_hats.jpg Forage Cap http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/cat27-h31.JPEG Apparently, a Kepi is a type of forage cap and it continues to change style slightly into the turn of the 19th century. In case you don't know what a Kepi is...it's easy to find: http://www.specopstactical.com/shop/catalog/images/store/Rothco/5343.jpg The kind civilian boys often wear in the 1840's I can't find...yet. This is kinda what I mean, though I've seen them with higher bands and poofier crowns. http://www.heritagestudio.com/h48det.jpg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Vintage police uniform
The city matters I think. My 1st image involved a double breasted tunic (coat) and an 8 point cap unless you want Keystone Kops. Heres a pic from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KeystoneKops.jpg Looks almost like a regular frock coat... and Hatcrafters has the helmut I think... Yep, #124 http://www.hatcrafters.com/page2.htm It's the gear that makes the costume. -Original Message- From: stils...@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage police uniform A co-worker of my mother-in-law has recently bought and renovated a 1929 studebaker and would like to have a matching vintage uniform to go with it. You'll never get away with it, security cameras can see under those old brims and, besides, the different car alone is a dead give away, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Vintage police uniform
Since the Keystone Kops are a little early for 1929, here are some pics just from Google. http://www.haddontwphistoricalsociety.org/photos--police1929.jpg (Yikesvery storm trooper! But some motorcycle cops) http://www.importliquidators.com/Old_Police_1929.jpg http://lincoln.ne.gov/city/police/about/1930-2.jpg http://www.fairlawnpd.com/history/images_history/Photo_FLPD1930.jpg (you might want to get up with the poster asking about jodhpurs!) http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/exhibits/civic/1930_patrol_car.jpg http://www.maineancestry.com/chownfamily/images/ron%20chown%20police%20uniform.jpg Have fun!!! -Original Message- From: stils...@netspace.net.au To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Mar 31, 2010 12:31 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Vintage police uniform A co-worker of my mother-in-law has recently bought and renovated a 1929 studebaker and would like to have a matching vintage uniform to go with it. You'll never get away with it, security cameras can see under those old brims and, besides, the different car alone is a dead give away, -C. This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Jodhpurs
I used to have 2 pair of the old fashioned Jodhpurs with the wide thighs. One was navy wool broad cloth, the other brown corduroy. Both had button flies and brown leather patches on the inner thigh that stopped a little below the knee in a rounded shape. These were added over the already sewn inseam. They were cut just like regular pants but for the wide thigh part, a wider flair of the legs away from CF and a horizontal seam behind the knee... the back legs were two pieces each, the behind the knee seam where they joined was slightly curved to remove fabric when the knee was bent. ( imagine a fish dart taken behind the kneesbut the ends end at the inseam and outseam.) I believe the front part was slightly eased at the knee but it's hard to tell. All seams flat felled. The legs were narrow below the knee and open at the outseam. One (the brown) closed by eyelets and lacing and there was a single long 1 -2 wide cotton tape sewn at the bottom. Don't know why. The other (! blue) I don't remember how it closed, but I don't remember buttons or hooks and eyes. It might have laced too, but I think it was different somehow. Anyway, after I worked on Interview with the Vampire I made a pair of jodhpurs basted on these I had but with a half fall front, like 18th century breeches. Out of a wonderful nubbly, light brown colored linen/cotton mix with leather patches and laces and real horn buttons. It was meant as women's sports wear, but it never sold until I took the flared thighs in to be like normal pants. -Original Message- From: landofoz lando...@netins.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Mar 29, 2010 7:56 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jodhpurs Jean Hardy is still producing Jodhpurs patterns. http://www.jeanhardypatterns.com/patterns.htm I know there is at least one vintage sewing pattern for them, As far as I can tell, none of these are the type of jods the OP was asking for. Stretch breeches and saddle-seat jods, but not military style jods. I didn't keep the OP, but I think the old-fashioned military style with the flared legs above the knee and fitted below were described. Denise B But thank you for the link! I like some of these better than the ones at Suitability. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Jodhpurs Pattern?
How about these? http://www.harriets.com/wwipatterns.htm -Original Message- From: Pierre Sandy Pettinger costu...@radiks.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Tue, Mar 30, 2010 12:14 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Jodhpurs Pattern? Sportsmans Guide has 2 styles of military surplus jodhpurs that might fit the bill - they're inexpensive, and could be disassembled for a basic pattern. I think the 2nd one is closer to what you're looking for: German: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=70039 Italian: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=511204 HTH, Sandy At 11:30 AM 3/29/2010, you wrote: An acquaintance is looking for a pattern for men's jodhpurs -- specifically the exaggerated military style of the early 20th century. I would have thought this would be fairly easy to find, but I'm not spotting anyone who has such a pattern. Anyone know of a good source? Thanks in advance, Ulrika O'Brien Those Who Fail to Learn History Are Doomed to Repeat It; Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly - Why They Are Simply Doomed. Achemdro'hm The Illusion of Historical Fact -- C. Y. 4971 Andromeda ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] dressing Sherlock Holmes
Or would greys have been worn during that era? Browns, greys, greens, blues, (black very prominent) anything you might think a man's coat could be made of. Herringbone, plaid, tweed, twill. And most inverness's do not have sleeves (that's what the cape is for) but some do. and the early 19th century great coat had capes and sleeves, so you very often see inverness's with sleeves in the theatre. but a real one is sleeveless. -Original Message- From: Dawn d...@reddawn.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 12:42 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] dressing Sherlock Holmes debloughcostu...@aol.com wrote: The classic Sherlock Holmes coat of popular imagination is indeed an inverness coat. Generally (though not exclusively) made in heavy tweeds. And those would be in browns? Or would greys have been worn during that era? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Carved busks
Aren't they beautiful?and such an intimate gift! What a fun detail to include in a book/movie/play/reenactent. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What is this woman making?
Overall I find it a rather amusing image with those supported lace collars and keeping their hands busy with work. ** It's like an 18th century version of Renaissancewith the standing lace collars and the paned sleeves. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What is this woman making?
And the far left lady has an pointy thing but we can't see what she is doing with it. No, but we can imagine! She's taking orders for Chinese takeout. Regarding the dress... I just noticed, on this 2nd viewing of this actually very interesting illustration, the servant (well half of him) in livery on the far right. The livery got me thinking (oh no!)... Remember in the film Mrs Brown how Victoria's ladies in waiting were bound by archaic dress codes and wore decades old hoops? Could the ladies in this illustration be bound by some archaic dress code at court. The hairstyles put them in the 1780's, but the Renaissance details Still, the obvious center of attention, the lady of rank in this picture is also in the strange style, which makes me think it's just an artist's impression. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What is this woman making?
I believe that's the Swedish national costume or court dress Whoa! I just posted my are they in some archaic court dress? comment right before I read this one. Great minds...right? But would everyone have to wear it? Even the Queen? (or whoever is highest). Who are these people? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Dating a couple garments
Does anyone recall when dolman sleeved swing jackets were popular? * Actually, in the 1950's and early 60's. A Dior thing?or was it Balenciaga? Anyway, they make a comeback from time to time. In the 1980's (I don't actually remember them then) they'd more than likely have shoulder pads. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] The Young Victoria's Film Costumes
There are painted costumes. * There was a wonderful Dutch fabric painter (who I got along with famously) on Interview with the Vampire (Sandy Powell designed that) and much painting in that film. Several people in the shop were worried about things looking painted instead of embroidered but in the film, everything looks fine. The painting also goes further than just imitation of time consuming embroideries, but some plain fabrics are given texture and depth by painting. In Interview... for example, the two young boys Claudia uses to trick Lestat into drinking dead blood... The director decided he wanted the boys dressed alike, so we had to whip up the day before some breeches for them (I had to make them without measurements!) The fabric I was given was a typical moire acetate taffeta in electric yellow! Matilde (the Dutch fabric painter) sprayed and painted the breeches after they were made up to look as they do in the film: a sort of shimmery ochre, which up close glowed and sparkled with a hint of metalic. And of course there's teching (Distressing in theatre terms) which is aging of garments right off the sewing machine. A task I enjoy. It's like makeup for clothes and you can tell a story with where stains and worn places are placed. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1920s Men's bathing suit pattern
just a bit heavier than T-shirt fabric. The two real one piece tank top vintage bathing suits for men I found at a flea market were knit but sweater weight (perhaps a bit denser, tighter stitch than a sweater). They also had a woven cotton underwear- like thing sewn into the bottom part. One was navy with a wide white stripe running horizontally at chest level. The other was black. Both were wool. Wool, y'know, will still keep one warm when wet. And sometime in the 1870's I believe it was considered a healthy thing to break into a sweat. Thus, a sweater was proper attire for tennis and the like. These ideas linger into the 20th century. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Chalking a line
you could run a basting thread along the chalk line... the couched cord will cover any holes from the basting, and if you use a fine needle, the holes won't last long anyway... this is actually Gerek's idea, he can't remember where he got it, but thinks it might even be a period method?? * This is actually a time honored method from god knows when. When I worked for the British shop head on a film, she made us flatline things by hand...running a basting stitch right along the traced lines on the flatlining material. This really keeps the fabric in place but also you now have a completely removable line that shows up on both sides. It's a great way to mark fabric... if you have the time. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Invisible stripes
What happens when you make a gown in a size 0 (or smaller) out of invisible stripes? The mind reels. Quantum costuming! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movie Recommendation from a Spy
The skirt must have been falling off and no one noticed in the outdoor shot. :~) When we did the 1st shot of Last of the Mohicans (a scene in Albany) we in the shop wondered down to the set to see how everyone looked all done up i hair and makeup and surrounded by the set. It was like Lights! Camera! Ac! STOP! That was us from the shop yelling stop. Cpt Heyward had a manilla tag pinned to the CF of his coat with Sc 124 scrawled on it in Sharpie! No one had noticed. Not the on set wardrobe crew, not the camera operator or the DP or the director. -Original Message- From: Katy Bishop katybisho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2009 11:45 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movie Recommendation from a Spy We went to see Sherlock Holmes last night. The most interesting and amusing part of the movie for me from a costume standpoint, aside from the lovely ladies fitted cloaks and Irene's flirty red and blue ruffled bustle, was Watson's fiance's skirt. At the end of the movie, as she is walking up to Holmes' house, her skirt is about 6 inches too long and dragging in the muck on the sidewalk, I lean over to my husband and mention that her skirt is too long, but as he looks up she is walking into the house and her skirt is now, miraculously, the perfect length. The skirt must have been falling off and no one noticed in the outdoor shot. :~) Katy On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 9:03 PM, Chiara Francesca chiara.france...@gmail.com wrote: Yep, the two movies I want to see for dresses is this one and Young Victoria. I am so excited!!! Having read SH books I still firmly believe that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is one of the leaders of Steam Punk before we named it. :) ♫ Chiara Francesca Which 'Chiara'...?? Nah... wasn't me ;-) -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cc2010m...@cs.com Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 3:08 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Movie Recommendation from a Spy Hello! I just saw Sherlock Holmes this morning and I recommend it! I am not a huge Holmes buff, but have seen various incarnations of it. I get a regular fix thanks to one of the local PBS stations running the good ole Jeremy Brett version all the time. I did have my doubts about Robert Downey Jr. as Holmes, but he does a good job and maintains his accent all the time, unlike one of the supporting cast. The men's fashion wasn't that exciting, but the women's was. I have to go see it again to see a dress that I missed during the scene that occurred when I ducked out for a moment. The technology was good and period possible. Although I have doubts about the taser that appeared in a lab. But its use was well done. There is even one gizmo that mixed all tech of the times. A definite good choice in this movie was Guy Ritchie as director. He is the one you did Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels, Snatch, and Revolver. He is good at twists and turns, and then explaining it to the viewer in such a way that does not seem like a cheap plot device. Next weekend, I am catching Young Victoria. Henry W. Osier Chairman, Costume-Con 28 May 7 to May 10, 2010 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin www.CC28.org Look for our fan page on Facebook! And on Twitter: CostumeCon28 Got questions? Join the CostumeCon Yahoo group! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian katybisho...@gmail.comwww.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sound of Music
For some reason, it seems like costume designers from the 50s and 60s were not at all interested in any sort of historical accuracy. They aren't. In America anyway... a little more so in Britain. Accuracy becomes a thing in the late '60's. The 1st movie I can remember as being accurate is Thoroughly Modern Millie! (actually,Gone With the Wind has a respect for the period, but more so in the set and prop dept's than the costume dept. Still, the clothes are not outrageously off like you might see in a western or period piece from the early '30's or the 1920's.) In the late '60's '70's you get the gritty realism school of film and the breakdown of the studio and movies set in modern times work hard to look like there is no production that things are almost a documentary. Think Z, or The French Connection or The Seven Ups. This realism get reflected in period costuming. You see it in Clint Eastwood films like The Good the Bad and the Ugly where the costumes are not really what anyone might wear (some of those things the Mexican's are in..ay yay ay!) but they are dirty and grungy and worn-out in a w! ay rarely seen before. Then you get films like The Three Musketeers The Four Musketeers (it was shot as one film)... the one with Michael York and Richard Chamberlain... where things look like they stepped out of a period portraitexcept Rachel Welch, who is still in the old studio style of period costume (though not bad designs actually...just not cut correctly) Things improve steadily as the years go on.. Now I think we are coming out of a period accuracy mode... but it has left its mark. The best looking things (IMHO of course) are those that have a healthy respect for the period but have bent and worked it to some goala look. Sandy Powell and Colleen Atwood are the best at this! I just watched Silence of the Lambs again (Atwood) and the look is real but still a little heightened with Hannibal in his mask and the sicko murderer in his patchwork quilted tranny robe. But still real. And then she can do Sleepy Hollow or Sweeney Todd where she obviously knows the period but manipulates it for fantastical effects (I'll never forget the shock of the little girls gathering wood in the snow in pink silk and gold lace in Sleepy Hollow) Sandy Powell does real (Michael Collins, Wings of the Dove) and some heightened manipulation (Velvet Goldmine, Gangs of NY) to very heightened manipulation (Shakespeare in Love, Interview with the Vampire, The Other Bol! eyn Girl) Milena Canonero has been designing thru the whole period accuracy era. She does super realistic (Chariots of Fire, Barry Lyndon) and outrageously manipulated (Titus, Dick Tracy, A Clockwork Orange) I know, I pay way too much attention to these trends, but this is the period when I was studying costume design. And it was the film Aunie Mame that got me paying attention to accuracy. Nothing Rosalind Russell wears is correct for the time line of the film. Nobody's clothes are. It's all 1950's, but the plots happens from 1929 - 1940. I asked myselfwhat a designer's dream...the '20s to the 40's... why did they ignore it? (They don't in the musical). The other thing I noticed is that even though all the clothes are not period, they still are perfect in feel and add to the character and mood. But a good designer should be able to do that in the correct periods. But it also shows that more is needed than accuracy alone. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sound of Music
I noticed that too when watching Giant Moss Mabry designed Liz's costumes for Giant. I worked with him once and we talked about period costuming. He thinks that all period designers have to do is copy portraits. He DESIGNER and will just do fashions for the characters. He tries to get a period nod, but basically he just does a version of modern clothes. He was definitely old school studio. He was hard to work for on an indie, on location film because he just was used to handing the Costume Dept head a sketch and it was made up for him. Here we are in a trailer with a portable sewing machine. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] stiffen agent
Leather sounds like a good choice. Parchment (the real stuff is leather y'know) is offend used in millinery and trimmings in the period. Buckram is a millinery product used for a long time now since it is basically burlap stiffened with glue or shellac (also used to block felt hats). Modern buckram's glue is made of...I dunno. But it will wash out with water and the buckram becomes a limp piece of cloth. If dry cleaned, it stays stiff but turns yellow. Then there's always lots and lots of starchon coarse linen. -Original Message- From: Alexandria Doyle garbaho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2009 2:27 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] stiffen agent Was this on a hanging or clothing? I wonder about having a piece of paper permenent inside of a component of the bodice alex On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: Try thin stiff paper. I recall that's what some extant 16th century garments have as their backings on the appliques of silk. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ From: Alexandria Doyle garbaho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Fri, December 11, 2009 7:08:08 AM Subject: [h-cost] stiffen agent snip Does anyone have have suggestions of anything else that could have been used early to mid 16th century Germany as a stiffening agent and /or base fabric for this kind of project? thanks alex ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] lining for panne velvet// Quesstion on ironing it...
It's just me, of course, but I hate fusible interfacing. If the velvet stretches more or less than the fusible it could pull apart from the innerfacing in places and we all know how that looks. Plus, ironing acres of velvet is a painyou don't want to crush it. Iron it on a thick terry towel, or another piece of the velvet nap to nap. Or (the best, but most expensive thing) use a needle board made for just the purpose. If you don't want the panne to stretch, then flat line it with a woven fabric. The garment takes on the characteristics of the woven stuffif cut on the straight, it won't give, if cut on the bias it will cling and drape like bias. Large pieces, like a skirt gore, can become a problem if the panne sags when far away from a seam. In that case I'd suggest making up the skirt in just the panne with a separate foundation skirt of the liningall put on one waist band or to the bodice. Then you may have to hem them differently to get them to hang at the same level. Also, if the skirt(s) are longer at the seams (or anywhere really) it is sometimes more successful to raise or lower the hem from the waist. I hope I haven't scared you with all this. But y'know the fusible may do the trick for you without all the fuss I was describing. Fabrics have a mind of their own and sometimes they cooperate sometimes not. -Original Message- From: Ruth Anne Baumgartner ruthan...@mindspring.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sat, Dec 5, 2009 11:23 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining for panne velvet// Quesstion on ironing it... Wow, KNIT! --this is a product I didn't know existed and so never thought to look for. Talk about filling a need! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Dec 5, 2009, at 11:07 AM, Kim Baird wrote: I would suggest using the KNIT iron-on interfacing, which will give some stability, but not be stiff. It is available in white or black. Use a terry towel over the ironing board, and fuse with the velvet face down. You can always experiment on one corner before fusing everything. Kim -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume- boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Melody Watts Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 12:20 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining for panne velvet// Quesstion on ironing it... Dawn, Did ironing on the interfacing flatten the pile to any degree ? I have seen Panne velvet really cheap but was put off by the stretch factor, I wondered if fusable interfacing would cure this., but worried about the pressing making more problems then it cured. melody --- On Fri, 12/4/09, Dawn d...@reddawn.net wrote: From: Dawn d...@reddawn.net Subject: Re: [h-cost] lining for panne velvet To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Friday, December 4, 2009, 9:42 PM Cascio Michael wrote: Will lining the bodice stabilize the stretch? Would I cut the lining on the bias or the straight. I'm considering tacking snowflake buttons at intervals to decorate the bodice and keep the layers together. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I have used iron-on interfacing to stabilize panne, with pretty good results. I ironed big sheets of it right onto the back of the fabric before cutting out my bodice pieces. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume = ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Picnic in the park
Waitaccording to Manet, the women should be nude! Seriously...lovely gowns! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Color dye mixing
browns, and for depth at least one part black. Black usually has a lot of blue in it. But since you don't want to go purple, you must stay on the red side of brown. Still you want a bit of bluewhich the black will add. A chocolate color might do the trick. Test test test! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Roman question
A good Roman question might be Did Livia cook this? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Anyway, as to sewing. If the wool was thick and spongy, I would think it would be butted up and then stitched side by side, As suggested. This might be done by putting the fabric right sides together, like we would when sewing on a machine, and whipping over both edges (not too tightly), then spreading the cloth out and gently pulling it until the pieces are butted up next to each other. Of course the stitching shows, but if sewn with threads from the fabric itself I read about this technique somewhere, but I can't remember where. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms
Lookee http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3217,00.html http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3218,00.html -Original Message- From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com To: h-cost h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 4:06 pm Subject: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms My cousin is president of the China National Aviation Corporation (CNAC ) she has what I think is a fun idea for the reunion this year. She thinks we should dress as stewardesses for the reunion. http://www.cnac.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_National_Aviation_Corporation She I typically tend bar as the pilots, navigators, ground team (now in their 80s 90s) swap lies do a little hangar flying. Does anyone know of sources for pictures, patches, pins, patterns accessories for the ladies' uniforms? At this point we'd start with most any 30s stews' uniforms improve them later. This is a fun, historical organization consisting of people who worked the Hump route in the late 30s early 40s, their family members aviation history buffs. CNAC was a supported China by flying supplies into Yunnan before the US actively joined the allies WWII. Thanks all, --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms ....a site for you
looks like someof the BW are early Alas, it looks like the earliest photo is from the early '50's. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 30s flight attendant uniforms
I just found NASM. *** Yes! Here's a color photo of a replica of the uniforms I showed you in the pics from United Air Lines. http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal102/americabyair/abaImage.cfm?webID=210.p10 MMa lovely green...NOT! Anyway, it's very deco. I hate that manikin too. A big round metal head? The uniform looks rumpled and ill fitted. They look much better on the girls! http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/gal102/americabyair/abaImage.cfm?webID=210.p6 Here are the 1st two I posted earlier, again: http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3217,00.html http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,3218,00.html ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Proper Skirt Length ??? ....some info on skirts lengths
Clothing coupons had been abolished in 1948 so that by 1952 clothes were at last liberated.? Hemlines which had plunged rapidly with the new look, finally settled at mid calf length, eleven and a quarter inches off the ground.? Dolman sleeves, swing back coats and stand away collars were popular.? Skirts could be pencil slim or a mass of sun ray pleats.? Lots of these looks were achieved by using 1950's fashion sewing patterns. And of course not everyone is a fashion plate. My mother never wore a crinoline even if she wore full skirts... she thought they were too much. And many who grew up in the '40's preferred the a-little-below-the-knee length. And you can see all these many lengths and fullnesses in films of the period. Remember Psycho? It came out in 1961, so was made in 1960. You see full skirts at the length you describe, and I believe that movie was shopped. And of course a film is not a history class so it's what is appropriate for the kind of character that one is trying to get across that takes president. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Proper Skirt Length ???
I must admit...that does seem short even for the shortest of skirts in the period. (I haven't seen the film yet) Let us not forget, however, the pain-in-the-ass actors (and directors) who insist of changing what the designer wants even if it destroys the integrity of the design. Boy, I've had my share of those! Actresses never come on the set and say Oh no! I can't have blue wallpaper on this wall! but they'll change their clothes on a whim. It's an empowering thing I guess, for the insecure. (are you listening, Lynn Whitfield?) Who knows what went on the day of shooting? And when you've got hundreds of costumes to worry about, and very often no support from directors or producers, it's often just better to let it go. Still I know several good designers who went into other fields because of this flippant attitude towards their creations. Too bad! -Original Message- From: Jodi Nelson faerieglenstud...@yahoo.com To: h-costume@mail.indra.com Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 7:18 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Proper Skirt Length ??? The character in question is an editor in a New York publishing house, I'd say late 20 to early 30 something. The thing that seemed most wrong to me was the hem hit just below the kneecap. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1913 stays
Now, sitting in those long-bodied corsets must have been...interesting. At least one shows creases where your thighs would bend. You'll notice that the bones do not go all the way to the bottom, but usually stop at the high hip line. The casings do continue all the way down but usually have some kind of light stiffener in them. The pair I have, and others I've seen, seem to have something like stiff paper in the casings below the hip level... but I really don't know what's in there. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1913? some bases to use,maybe..
Here's one from Past Patterns. http://www.pastpatterns.com/8109.html These types of gowns usually have an unssen lightly boned foundation bodice that the other stuff is draped onto. A pattern like this might include such a detail. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait
The dress is most likely cotton or a cotton/linen blend. Cotton was very expensive before the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 (?) and the portrait is 1780-something. It was also a scandal! The QUEEN! In a chemise gown usually reserved for at home wear, not for public And doing common work! (Wrapping a ribbon around the thorny stem of a rose) There is also a version of the painting with the Queen wearing a more acceptable silk gown. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric suggestions - Marie Antoinette 1786 portrait
Much more affordable than the sheer linen, which I cannot imaging JoAnn's having ever carried. ** I once found yardage of cotton almost-gauze in the drapery dept. of an everything $7 store! It came in off white and a deep rich red, yellow and a navy! Imagine a dress in the red with tucks and such over a white underdress. Don't rule out the local drapery stores! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Venetian Carnevale Gown
The flowing back pleats of the French gown are lovely in motion.? Check out some films to see it on a moving person. Dangerous Liaisons comes to mind as a good example of all kinds of mid 18th century gowns on people in motion. Don't forget about Commedia del arte characters. They come in all periods. A diamond patterned jacket and skirt arrangement would be very Italain indeed. Lemme see if I can find a visual. Here's what I was thinking of: http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/262/wm/pd535035.jpg This costume has Renaissance elements, but it can be made up with 18th century details too. The low square neckline common in the 18th century looks great with a ruff around the bare neck. Very carnivale! Also, all the details you like about the robe a la francaise can be put on a robe a l'anglaise. And there is no need for a separate stomacher. There are many examples of both types of gowns with stomachers that open down the center front, and so are sewn to each side of the robe. Many gowns in the 1770's and 1780's (a la polonaise is included here) have no hint of a stomacher at all, fake or real. They just come around and? close CF. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 17th century stays and bodice
I'd find a pattern for stays that approximate the shape of the woman's bodice, and go from there. ** It is common for bodices to have boned linings or for bodices to be mounted onto boned linings that are not cut exactly the same, but of course similarly cut. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] was lacing now 1820s underwear
I find the Past Patterns corset pattern #708 to be a very useful pattern. I know they mark it as 1840-1880, but I find that it could work for 1829. It's that gusset construction... basically a cylinder with gussets added to compensate for the swell of the bust and hips that kind of construction lends itself to the earlier part of the mid-19th century. For the 1820's you might want to elongate the bottom of the corset some. Maybe not put a split busk but a solid wide one in front and even add shoulder straps. But the basic (and really lovely) shape of this corset can easily work, even with a waist 1 or so above natural level. It's easy to make and lightly boned. One could add cording or (like I have done) more bones (I put one between each existing one, running them all from top to bottom) if you want. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Lacing question frayed ends
20 years ago I bought a huge industrial spool of 1/4 cotton twill tape. (I STILL have tons of it!) I use that and it works well, but the ends do fray. * I shoulda mentioned the advantages of the cotton twill tape. It's thin because it's flat, y'know...a tape. But it's strong because it's woven. It can be dyed any color on the stove in a sauce pan. In many cases, it's period (though linen tape is the real thing.) Besides, it's useful for other things like drawstrings and a stabilizer on stretching seams. And of course it's cheap! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Lacing question
Right now, for convenience and in the interest of stash reduction, I'm using 1/8 and 1/4 silk ribbon, leftover from my last round of silk ribbon embroidery. It's not very satisfactory, but I could not figure out a good alternative. 20 years ago I bought a huge industrial spool of 1/4 cotton twill tape. (I STILL have tons of it!) I use that and it works well, but the ends do fray. I think I ordered the spool from Greenburg Hammer. http://www.greenberg-hammer.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] visiting eastern USA - recommendations of things tosee?[SEC=UNCL...
In a message dated 7/9/2009 12:08:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, goo...@comcast.net writes: The Smithsonian in Washington DC springs to mind. Or all of DC, really. *** Really! If you end up in DC you must go to the National Gallery. Not costume related unless you're doing primary research maybe... They have a few Vermeers. Some Rembrandts... Indeed the 17th century galleries have great clothes in them. My favorite paintings were right next to each other the last time I was there: Gainsborough's Mrs. Sheridan and Whistler's Symphony in White. And the non-costumey stuff They have some really good blue and rose Picassos in the tower and the Matisse cut paper stuff is really good. They used to have a lot of Rothko's I loved but half of them were not on display the last time I was there. Also a room full of Calder sculpture. Don't miss Watson and the Shark and the big gold relief celebrating the 54 Mass. Volunteer Infantry and Robert Gould Shawwhat the film Glory was about. That's just one museum! The Museum of the American Indian is amazing too, not to mention Natural History, Space Technology, the Hirshhorn. **Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Ye olde modern art
In a message dated 7/8/2009 1:37:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, otsi...@socket.net writes: Whoever designed the game look has actually done more than gone to a Ren Faire, Yeah they watched Dangerous Beauty too. Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. --Oscar Wilde **Popular laptop deals plus free shipping! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221917659x1201411421/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.media plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] What costume things did you learn in the 60s?
In a message dated 7/8/2009 2:52:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, kay...@gmail.com writes: and Folkwear Patterns, are two prominent products of the 60s Hippie movement I love that Folkwear is in Barnardsville, NC. Alas, I'm on the coast and Barnardsville is near Asheville in the Mountains (That makes some sense. The Black Mountain School is near there too. Very big and hugely influential in the arts in the '60's) so it's about a 6 hour drive, but, still **Popular laptop deals plus free shipping! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221917659x1201411421/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.media plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Dress Codes....was 1960 hippie fashion
Just for the record... Male dress codes abound too. At Prep school, we boys had to wear a coat and tie to class and dinner. Freshmen had to wear a black tie. No jeans were allowed so we resorted to the ubiquitous navy blazer, grey or khaki pants and some kind of striped tie.just like today! Then around 1970 the denim blazer came out! We were praising little baby Jesus because now we could wear jeans with our denim blazers to class. I remember tying all my ties and hanging them on the bed post so I could just grab one and run to class. My Junior year, coats and ties were no longer required except for Sunday sit down dinner at one's advisor's table. But still no T-shirts to class! **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960 hippie fashion
In a message dated 7/6/2009 2:24:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dela...@yahoo.com writes: They called it a distraction. How is a maxi-skirt a distraction? I just don't get it. Mini...I can, in disagreement, see it. But NOT showing your legs is a distraction? Of course I was told my hair was too long by my English teacher in prep-school. I asked him What does the length of my hair have to do with my ability to learn English? I thought it was a good question. I wanted to know the answer. I got sent to the Head Master's office. **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377077x1201454398/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960s hippie fashions
In a message dated 7/4/2009 8:59:10 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, annbw...@aol.com writes: Right off the top of my head, clothing-wise, I'm thinking of polyester double knits, and men's super wide ties and wild plaid jackets with patch pockets, and leisure suits. ** I think of this as 70's not 60's. But the 70's is when the do your own thang hippy, peace, drug culture and all had become mainstream. Ties and suits in the 60's are not hippy and , in the Beatle-mania period, are of the Ivy League kindnarrow, and tight. That Peter Max color scheme and flashy big ties and bell-bottomed plaid suits don't enter into main stream until after the Beatles drop acid and go to India. Sgt Pepper isn't until 1967. The decade is more than half over. Before it goes commercial, the hippy movement is anti-establishment and down with authority! Like Beatniks in the 50's, it's fringe. And that 60's Austin Powers look is English Mod not hippy. Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. --Oscar Wilde **An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222887319x1201497660/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960s hippie fashions
In a message dated 7/4/2009 1:29:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, be...@softwareinnovation.com writes: but the rate of change for Fashion does seem to be increasing... Y'know, it seems that way, but it's not. Little things change pretty regularly. When you start studying things in more and more detail this comes out. Even 18th century fashions have changed noticeably every 10 years or so. **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323013x1201367230/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1960s hippie fashions
In a message dated 7/4/2009 5:41:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sha...@collierfam.com writes: I remember that we were not allowed to wear long skirts to high school in the year 1968-69. ** Isn't that dumb? They were probably telling girls not to wear short skirts 3 years before. Why shouldn't you wear a long skirt? Didn't they want to see your legs? Or did Commies just wear long skirts? Stupid rules just for authoritarian sake. Down with the MAN, man! As far a long hippy fashions are concerned, a long flowing tie-dyed velour moo-moo seems in order. Don't forget the love beads and frizzy hair tied in a psychedelic head band. Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months. --Oscar Wilde **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323013x1201367230/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=62bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Temporary facial hair ...few ideas...
In a message dated 7/1/2009 3:40:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, celticredhead2...@yahoo.com writes: hair pieces are available at The Halloween Club stores all year round ** The local CVS pharmacy has hair pieces! One or two would do a whole beard and they come in different colors and textures. I don't know what kind of hair they are made from. Anyway, hair seems to be easy to find these days. I remember from school a Q D beard session using bought hair and spirit gum. He gummed one section at a timesections that naturally occur in a beard, like the left side of the mustache and the right side, the chin and then the jaw, and then the sideburns that kind if thing. After that one gummed section got tacky, he took the hair and spread it out in his hand to a thin layer holding it between his thumb and the side of his hand with ends sticking up about an inch above his thumb and hand . This was pushed into the gum with the hair in the direction it should lay. For instance, for say the left mustache, you come in from the left with the hair pointing in the direction it would naturally lay and sorta push the hair up into the gum. You will need several layers so start at the bottom of the section and work up. Always do a beard longer than you want the finished one so you can trim it into shape after it's stuck on. Also, this was not a do it yourself operation. You always get better results if someone does the beard for someone else...not doing one on yourself. But of course if you're careful... and take your time It does take a while to complete a full beard. **Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops – Deals starting at $399(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222883570x1201497211/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
