Re: Consultancy company
On or about Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:08:29PM +, Piers Cawley typed: And if the Big Cheese does hand down decisions that override the Minion then the contract between developer and client should stipulate that the client pays for the wasted time. Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness in customer relations than I've ever seen - and if that firmness were present, we wouldn't need XP anyway... Roger
Re: Consultancy company
Roger claimed that:
This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness
in customer relations than I've ever seen - and if that firmness were
present, we wouldn't need XP anyway...
One of the main problems with full disclosure with the client is that it
can only ever work when you've only got one client. In my job you tend to
be working on more than one project at any given time; I certainly don't
think I'd like to be the one to tell the client 'sorry this is late, but
there was this unexpected problem with some work we were doing for another
client and it took up all our time'.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Damian/TPC Papers
I see that in Damian's latest diary entry (you _are_ reading Damian's diary I assume) he talks about the ridiculous number[1] of papers, talks and tutorials that he's proposing to give at TPC5. The piece also seems to act as an advert to encourage other people to submit proposals to the conference committee. This, together with Nat's recent posting on the same subject and the extension to the submission dates lead me to beleive that the committee members haven't had as many submissions yet as they might have liked. This would therefore seem to be a good time to get your proposals in. It would be nice to see a very strong speaking presence from london.pm at the conference. Damian's article is at: http://www.yetanother.org/damian/diary_January_2001.html#day_19 Dave... [1] We certainly seem to be getting our money's worth out of him :)
Re: Consultancy company
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 08:47:35AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness I've also found a lot of customers are absolute *geniuses* at fudging the issue of what they did and didn't agree to, no matter how specific you attempt to be. All changes no matter how small should be passed through a change control process, normally put in place by the project manager assigned to that specific job. A change control document will normally be produced which will detail what the client wants, how much it will cost and what the effects are on the project timeline. This will need to be read and physically signed off by the client before any work is undertaken. This, in theory, should make the client think whether they really need this "small change" or if it can wait until a later date. It also gives you some ammo if the client changes their mind as there should be no ambiguity. -- James
Re: Consultancy company
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Leon Brocard wrote:
Dave Mee sent the following bits through the ether:
One of the best solutions I've come accross to this problem is to take an
iterative approach to development.
Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day /
week you have changed something and can show it to the client
again. This way the client really understands what he really wants.
This even works well if you are working on projects for yourself. It's a
very good way of maintaining focus and not going off on tangents when
you're programming.
Later.
Mark.
--
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' ,
Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web = 'http://www.profero.com/' ,
Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960' )
Re: Consultancy company
At Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:42:46 +, Leon Brocard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Mee sent the following bits through the ether: One of the best solutions I've come accross to this problem is to take an iterative approach to development. Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day / week you have changed something and can show it to the client again. This way the client really understands what he really wants. And if you don't want to buy the XP books, but want to know more... http://www.extremeprogramming.org/ Dave...
Re: Consultancy company
Andy Wardley wrote: Having said that, I do very little "real" work at work, instead spending my time reading/writing email, chatting to people, playing table tennis, having meetings, and doing other brain dead tasks. I sometimes feel guilty because 90% of my work gets done in 10% of my time. I mean I *know* I can pull out the stops and work my arse off for extended periods of time but I can't seem to get myself to get into work at 9:30am work till lunch, 45 mins having a sandwich then work till 5:30-6:00pm and still be productive. In fact now I don't think I could do it at all. But I get my work done and people seem to be happy with the quality and how fats it gets delivered so ... shrugs
Re: Consultancy company
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 10:26:18AM +, James O'Sullivan wrote: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 08:47:35AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness I've also found a lot of customers are absolute *geniuses* at fudging the issue of what they did and didn't agree to, no matter how specific you attempt to be. All changes no matter how small should be passed through a change control process, normally put in place by the project manager assigned to that specific job. A change control document will normally be produced which will detail what the client wants, how much it will cost and what the effects are on the project timeline. This will need to be read and physically signed off by the client before any work is undertaken. a) you need to be able to persuade management this is a good idea b) you need to get someone writing specs who is actually able to be specific. And you need to have some way of dealing with a client who will refuse to pay until you implement something that they say is contained within the spec, and you don't. Despite the fact you're both reading the same spec. From memories of my last job, both of these can be a problem. Michael
Re: Consultancy company
Mark Fowler sent the following bits through the ether: Two points: Picky, picky. Fine. I'd say that of the bits I've tested, I've found that continuous testing is a very important part. Writing the tests before the code is cool too. But you know this already ;-) Leon -- Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/ yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/ ... For Sale: Slightly used message. Enquire within
Re: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?
So who's bankrolling the van and who wants to be BA? Neil. (whose tounge is ever so slightly on his cheek!) -- Sorry, but I can't resist pointing out that this amusing misspelling. I guess I'd pronounce this a bit like lounge. Tongue is a pretty stupid way to spell it anyway, tung would be better. Now back to your regular (extreme) programming. /Robert
Re: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?
Neil Ford wrote: The "A-Team" - scenario is one in which a team goes in to rescue a failing project, or go in and retune/redesign an existing project that works but has become a victim of its own success. Think of this work as bespoke enhancements. That just has me conjering up images of turning up at a client site in a big black van (screeching tyres obligatory) and either leaping out laptops in hand or just unrollong some CAT5 and plugging into their network :-) So who's bankrolling the van and who wants to be BA? lol - monday's been c*** so far (Linx rooter down apparently - sounds like something off an excuse sheet). Men in black theme - we must all have black suits - dark glasses avliable from Macy D's soon, and we can get a clapped out van from BT for next to nothing Greg Neil. (whose tounge is ever so slightly on his cheek!) -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
No Subject
is it still 12:30 at the new world today? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, you wrote: Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day / week you have changed something and can show it to the client again. This way the client really understands what he really wants. wow ... "a client that understands what they want" ... Mr Brocard, for gods sake WALK to the meeting, DO NOT drive. I have no idea what you're taking but I want some .. do you get to see little blue spacemen too ;)) Further to this most clients aren't even interested in understanding what they want (that's _your_ job). They just _want_ it. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] imagination is more important than knowledge. -- albert einstein
Re:
is it still 12:30 at the new world today? That does indeed seem to be the plan. Neil. -- Neil C. Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.binky.ourshack.org
Re: Consultancy company
Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I sometimes feel guilty because 90% of my work gets done in 10% of my time. There is in fact Pareto's Law which says that 80% of results come from 20% of work (or 10-90 or whatever the numbers don't really matter). No need to feel guilty since this is the way things are. -- 1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -- philip k. dick
Re: Consultancy company
Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 2. I first heard about building at the end of the day in Brooke's Mythical Man Month. Continuous integration and smoke testing. Oh yes. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The overiding thing should be 'make this the very best company to work for AND the very best company to have work done by' A1 bleeding edge code written by the planets happiest programmers ... sounds like a good recipe to me. Not sure about the bleeding edge part, but certainly "using the highest productivity techniques known to man" would certainly rank high up there. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and this template toolit thing rocks dunnit .. (now I have the hang of it .. sorta) It is the rockingest thing I've rocked to since the last one. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Consultancy company- Where do you want to go?
Greg Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Men in black theme - we must all have black suits - dark glasses avliable from Macy D's soon, and we can get a clapped out van from BT for next to nothing Don't forget the welding gear. Actually, I'm more for the Ghostbusters theme: boiler suits, handhled nuclear weapons, a disused fire station and an ambulance. -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Consultancy company
Simon Wistow [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I sometimes feel guilty because 90% of my work gets done in 10% of my time. There is in fact Pareto's Law which says that 80% of results come from 20% of work (or 10-90 or whatever the numbers don't really matter). Often, when I do something that I consider really easy and spend little effort on it, I get lots of really good feedback. Alternatively if I spend weeks on a trickey problem, no one says anything. This seems like a similar rule. C'est la vie. /Robert
RE: Consultancy company
There is in fact Pareto's Law which says that 80% of results come from 20% of work (or 10-90 or whatever the numbers don't really matter). Often, when I do something that I consider really easy and spend little effort on it, I get lots of really good feedback. Glad I'm not the only one. I spend three days futzing around unable to get stuck into a problem, and then eventually manage a decent half days work to get it done before the deadline. Then, while I'm worrying about having wasted 2 1/2 days someone comes and says what a good document it was. I don't get it. I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the way other people in the office seem to beaver away steadily.
Lunch
Lunch was fabulous if only to hear Cantrell say: "this is nice, what the hell is it?" (or something). -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Leftover ORA bumpf finds good home
evidence: http://www.pipetree.com/~dj/nr.pm/jan01/ :-) dj
Re: Lunch
At 22 Jan 2001 12:18:05 +, Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lunch was fabulous if only to hear Cantrell say: "this is nice, what the hell is it?" (or something). Any chance of someone posting a summary of the discussion? Dave...
Re: Lunch
Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any chance of someone posting a summary of the discussion? "Three bowls of noodle soup, some of those crab things on a stick, one each of the ho fun..." -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: Lunch
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 09:18:09AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Any chance of someone posting a summary of the discussion? pdcawley: talk talk take charge talk bully us into having a clue dcantrell: is there any tea left? food: wriggle, but in a nice-tasting way NB: :-) -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ This is nice. Any idea what body-part it is?
[OT] Putty invocation
Hi folks Am I going mad or is there no way I can start my fav client program PuTTY and specify a saved 'session' directly with a switch? (i.e. I can specify a hostname, but I _want_ to specify a session name - to have my colours / fonts etc) cheers dj
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
I make a shortcut and then put something like this in the Target field in Properties. "C:\Program Files\Putty\putty.exe" @SessionName HTH, Simon. Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] From DJ Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date 22 January 2001 To London PM [EMAIL PROTECTED]Time 15:32 Copy to (bcc: Simon Wilcox/BASE/WilliamsLea) Bcc Simon Wilcox/BASE/WilliamsLea Fax to Subject [OT] Putty invocation Hi folks Am I going mad or is there no way I can start my fav client program PuTTY and specify a saved 'session' directly with a switch? (i.e. I can specify a hostname, but I _want_ to specify a session name - to have my colours / fonts etc) cheers dj __ This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, our company disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited.
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 03:40:48PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "C:\Program Files\Putty\putty.exe" @SessionName wow - excellent. Thanks. I don't think I would have come upon '@' in my guessing ;-) cheers dj
Re: Conslutancy
On Jan 22, 3:33pm, Andy Wardley wrote: Please consider yourself emailed. Damn, damn, damn! OK, it was my stupid mistake that I didn't check the headers before I clicked send, but I can't help thinking that the default Reply-to header should be to the sender, not the entire group. And I also note that this was originally sent to the defunct list (at least I think this is the defunct list???), so I've changed the To: header. So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? And Dave, if you're reading this please add me to the conslutancy list. A -- Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. [EMAIL PROTECTED] For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: Conslutancy
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 03:52:08PM +, DJ Adams wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 03:47:03PM +, Andy Wardley wrote: So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change too late ;) the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? No no! Please no! holy war Why surely the most sensible reply-to is no reply-to at all... /holy war
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 03:32:58PM +, DJ Adams wrote: Hi folks Am I going mad or is there no way I can start my fav client program PuTTY and specify a saved 'session' directly with a switch? (i.e. I can specify a hostname, but I _want_ to specify a session name - to have my colours / fonts etc) And does anyone know how to get putty to save settings like they key for backspace, etc, rather than my having to set them every time I start it? Michael
Conslutency Location
On Jan 21, 1:20pm, Greg McCarroll wrote: potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london Surely you jest, sir! What about the M3/M4 corridor, otherwise known as "Silicon Alley"? What about places like Stockley Park (next to Heathrow), or the Surrey Research Park (where we're based, just a few doors down from Red Hat UK), just to name two off the top of my head? Are all those huge IT companies based in places like Bracknell (archetypal Silicon Alley town, but butt ugly), like Oracle, ICL/Fujitsu, Informix, etc., etc., not doing business with anyone else because they're not based in London? I think not. Anyway, the solution is simple. We have a London office and a Guildford office. The former is convenient for people in London, the latter convenient for both airports, M3, M4, M25, Brighton, and me! :-)= We give everyone a nice laptop and have desks with monitors, keyboards and telephones in the offices. They can work in one or other place, depending on where they are, what they're doing and/or who they're currently working with in terms of team members and/or clients. A -- Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. [EMAIL PROTECTED] For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: Conslutancy
Andy Wardley wrote: So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? rant I have arguments with Leon about this. He usually quotes 'Reply To munging considered harmful' (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) but as I keep trying to point out to him this document is bollocks. The main statemests it makes are ... 1) It violates the principle of minimal munging. Well, can't argue against that. Although I think the uses outway the principle. 2) It provides no benefit to the user of a reasonable mailer. What mailer? I use Netscape which amkes it a pain in the arse. But Netscape isn't a decent mailer you'll say. Ok. Pine. Pine has, IIRC a Reply and a 'Reply To All' capability. I believe Mutt is the same? How does non munging help here? 3) It limits a subscriber's freedom to choose how he or she will direct a response. Bollocks. 4) It actually reduces functionality for the user of a reasonable mailer. Bollocks. 5) It removes important information, which can make it impossible to get back to the message sender. Bollocks. 6) It penalizes the person with a reasonable mailer in order to coddle those running brain-dead software. What mailer? Put it this way. How many times are you replying to a list and you actually want to reply to a person individually. 1 in 10? 1 in 50? So non-mungin helps in those cases. Whereas munging helps in the other 9 or 49 depednign on how concillitory you're being. 7) It violates the principle of least work because complicates the procedure for replying to messages. See above. 8) It violates the principle of least surprise because it changes the way a mailer works. Not true. You are in genrral reply-ing to the list. Not to the individual person. 9) It violates the principle of least damage, and it encourages a failure mode that can be extremely embarrassing -- or worse. Hmmm. Fair enough I suppose. But more often I've replied to a mail and then gone back to repost it to the list. 10) Your subscribers don't want you to do it. Or, at least the ones who have bothered to read the docs for their mailer don't want you to do it. Subjective you honour. The prosecution is leading. /rant
Re: Conslutancy
* at 22/01 16:22 + Simon Wistow said: Andy Wardley wrote: So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? rant I have arguments with Leon about this. He usually quotes 'Reply To munging considered harmful' (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) but as I keep trying to point out to him this document is bollocks. The main statemests it makes are ... snip 2) It provides no benefit to the user of a reasonable mailer. What mailer? I use Netscape which amkes it a pain in the arse. But Netscape isn't a decent mailer you'll say. Ok. Pine. Pine has, IIRC a Reply and a 'Reply To All' capability. I believe Mutt is the same? How does non munging help here? actually mutt has cool mailing list functions in that you can define a mailing list in the config and then l (or L, i forget) replies to the list rather than the person. not that i want this to degenerate into a mail client holy war :) struan
Re: Conslutancy
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Andy Wardley wrote: So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? rant I have arguments with Leon about this. He usually quotes 'Reply To munging considered harmful' (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) but as I keep trying to point out to him this document is bollocks. The main statemests it makes are ... i'm ignoring all your points reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all its just the right thing so there
Re: Conslutancy
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll wrote: reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all No. When you reply-all it replies to the sender *AND* the list. So the sender gets two copies of everything. Which is just fricking irritating *AND* a waste of bandwidth. la la la la *has hands over ears* i cant here you, la la la la Yes I could have a procmail rule to delete duplicate message IDs but some places I work (like here) I can't use procmail. i can and do -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
And does anyone know how to get putty to save settings like they key for backspace, etc, rather than my having to set them every time I start it? Do you mean setting the backspace to Control-H in the keyboard tab isn't working, or are there other esoteric things you want to set? /Robert
Re: Conslutancy
* at 22/01 16:33 + Greg McCarroll said: * Struan Donald ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: actually mutt has cool mailing list functions in that you can define a mailing list in the config and then l (or L, i forget) replies to the list rather than the person. not that i want this to degenerate into a mail client holy war :) war implies a large struggle, this would be more like a 5 second knockout - everyone knows mutt is the one true mail client well yes but some people are stubborn, plus there's always the school of thought that everyting should be done from within emacs... struan
Munging Reply-To
On Jan 22, 4:26pm, Greg McCarroll wrote: reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, [...] its just the right thing Nail meets hammer. thwack/ If I explicitly set the Reply-To: in a message posted to the list then the software is munging it to set it to reply to the list. Therefore, the current behaviour is wrong, even according to the "Munging Reply-To considered harmful" arguments (which we don't necessarily accept as valid). A -- Andy Wardley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Signature regenerating. Please remain seated. [EMAIL PROTECTED] For a good time: http://www.kfs.org/~abw/
Re: Conslutancy
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:26:32PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all trying...to...resist...AARGH! No no no! You're on a mailing list because you're corresponding with the group as a while so you want ot reply to the group as a whole too. Mailing list parallel in IRC: type something (i.e. path of least resistance) : goes to channel /dcc chat (extra effort) : goes to individual having a reply-to sender as default for a mailing list is very rude as you're presuming the 'default' exclusion of the very collective you're conversing with. If you want to make an aside to the person who actually posted something, then by all means change the To: to their email address. :-) DJ who thinks people who refer to the "...Considered Harmful" doc are guilty of cargo-cult meme-mongering. P.S. nice to come back to the list on a juicy non-Perl (!) topic ;-)
Re: Conslutancy
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:33:33PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: war implies a large struggle, this would be more like a 5 second knockout - everyone knows mutt is the one true mail client Now _that_ is something I can agree with g dj happy just to have realised he'll be able to make next week's meet
Re: Conslutancy
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:33:34PM +, Simon Wistow wrote: Greg McCarroll wrote: reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all No. When you reply-all it replies to the sender *AND* the list. So the sender gets two copies of everything. Which is just fricking irritating *AND* a waste of bandwidth. So you use list-reply like sensible people. Or you actually take the time to pay attention to who you're sending the message to. Aargh. help! i'm being drawn in! Michael
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:33:11PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: And does anyone know how to get putty to save settings like they key for backspace, etc, rather than my having to set them every time I start it? Do you mean setting the backspace to Control-H in the keyboard tab isn't working, or are there other esoteric things you want to set? The backspace-ctrl-h. I can set it once in putty, and it works, but if I quit putty and restart, new sessions don't get it. Michael
Re: Munging Reply-To
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 05:10:57PM +, alex wrote: there is only one right way, and that's to give people the choice. that's what i do, and in my experience the majority prefer to have their reply-to's munged on discussive lists such as this one. I wonder whether that's really true, or if it's simply that most people don't bother to change from the default because they're not that interested? If the default was an unmunged (void) and (void-munged) was also available for the munging fanatics, which would be the majority then? Don't know, but wondering... .robin.
Re: Conslutancy
i'm ignoring all your points reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all its just the right thing so there Define sender then? the mailing list is the sender IMO (no H :-) /Robert
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 04:33:11PM -, Robert Shiels wrote: And does anyone know how to get putty to save settings like they key for backspace, etc, rather than my having to set them every time I start it? Do you mean setting the backspace to Control-H in the keyboard tab isn't working, or are there other esoteric things you want to set? The backspace-ctrl-h. I can set it once in putty, and it works, but if I quit putty and restart, new sessions don't get it. You need to change it individually for each session that you save as it's not a global thing. I've got it working here. /Robert
Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund
alex wrote: I'd prefer to do it the other way round if you don't mind, and say you have just one month to send a cheque for 50 pounds made out to C A McLean [1] to state51, 8 rhoda street, bethnal green, e2 7ef , or brought along to the next social or technical meeting. Hm, random question -- is penderal just for London.pm members or might it conceivably be opened to a wider public? For example, what about honourary London.pm members such as dha? To come to the point, I might be interested in buying a share since I don't really have a decent machine anywhere else besides a shell account somewhere in California. And colocating a machine of my own seems a bit costly to me at the moment. However, I can imagine you might be wanting to keep penderel a London thingy, which is why I thought I'd ask. Cheers, Philip
Re: Consultancy company
"James O'Sullivan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 08:47:35AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness I've also found a lot of customers are absolute *geniuses* at fudging the issue of what they did and didn't agree to, no matter how specific you attempt to be. All changes no matter how small should be passed through a change control process, normally put in place by the project manager assigned to that specific job. A change control document will normally be produced which will detail what the client wants, how much it will cost and what the effects are on the project timeline. This will need to be read and physically signed off by the client before any work is undertaken. This, in theory, should make the client think whether they really need this "small change" or if it can wait until a later date. It also gives you some ammo if the client changes their mind as there should be no ambiguity. The XP approach to this goes something like: Client: We want this. Team: Write it on a card. Client: Writes There you go. Team: This will take 'm' days to implement. We have n m days available in this iteration, do you want this in this iteration. or Team: This will take m days to implement. We have n m days in this iteration. If this goes in, which ones to we take out? And the client makes the decision. -- Piers
Re: Consultancy company
Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 10:26:18AM +, James O'Sullivan wrote: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 08:47:35AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Contracts _should_ say that the client pays for changes to what he originally said he wanted. Sometimes they do. It's quite rare, in my experience, for this payment actually to be demanded. (Usually some excuse along the lines of "it's a big customer and we don't want to annoy them".) This XP approach seems to require a lot more firmness I've also found a lot of customers are absolute *geniuses* at fudging the issue of what they did and didn't agree to, no matter how specific you attempt to be. All changes no matter how small should be passed through a change control process, normally put in place by the project manager assigned to that specific job. A change control document will normally be produced which will detail what the client wants, how much it will cost and what the effects are on the project timeline. This will need to be read and physically signed off by the client before any work is undertaken. a) you need to be able to persuade management this is a good idea b) you need to get someone writing specs who is actually able to be specific. And you need to have some way of dealing with a client who will refuse to pay until you implement something that they say is contained within the spec, and you don't. Despite the fact you're both reading the same spec. Keep the specs/stories simple. If the team is unsure of what a story means then they need to go back to the client for clarification, and possibly to have the requirement broken down into simpler bits. As time passes in the project, the client will get better at writing requirements. And we'll get better at estimating how long they'll take to implement. -- Piers
Re: Consultancy company
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, you wrote: Inded. Look at XP. The whole idea is that at the end of every day / week you have changed something and can show it to the client again. This way the client really understands what he really wants. wow ... "a client that understands what they want" ... Mr Brocard, for gods sake WALK to the meeting, DO NOT drive. I have no idea what you're taking but I want some .. do you get to see little blue spacemen too ;)) nah seriously.. if XP can really achieve this then great .. I hope it can .. infact I almost believe it can ... a little voice in my head keeps saying 'please let this be true' .. but sometimes when people come up with such abstract ideas as 'a client that understands what they want' I do begin to wonder if its not pushing it a bit far ;)) One of the things that I love about the iterative approach of XP is that during the process the client begins to learn exactly what she wants, and is taught to express that by the team. The idea is to create genuine collaboration. -- Piers
Re: Lunch
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 09:18:09AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: Any chance of someone posting a summary of the discussion? pdcawley: talk talk take charge talk bully us into having a clue Hmm... but I think we achieved rather more than that. And you forgot pdcawley: between rants mange mange mange mange gulp. -- Piers
Re: Lunch
Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Any chance of someone posting a summary of the discussion? "Three bowls of noodle soup, some of those crab things on a stick, one each of the ho fun..." Cheung fun. The ho fun were the white noodles in my soup. -- Piers
Re: Lunch
Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cheung fun. The ho fun were the white noodles in my soup. /pedant -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star http://www.deep-purple.com Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire -
Re: [OT] Putty invocation
I think everything is stored on a per-session basis. So if you want something changed for all sessions you have to change and re-save each one. I think (having only ever used Putty against two machines running the same OS) ! Simon. The backspace-ctrl-h. I can set it once in putty, and it works, but if I quit putty and restart, new sessions don't get it. Michael __ This document should only be read by those persons to whom it is addressed and is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. Accordingly, our company disclaim all responsibility and accept no liability (including in negligence) for the consequences for any person acting, or refraining from acting, on such information prior to the receipt by those persons of subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately by telephone. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited.
