Re: In defence of Perl
* Neil Ford ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: This is a plea for help. Here is the situation: [situation snipped] My belief is that the LAMP type route provides a very cost effective, portable and scalable solution but I concede that bigger backends are needed for volume transaction systems. Funnily enough I am about half way through an article for the new www.onlamp.com site that is quite relevant to your situation. I'll whip myself to get it finished soon. The help I need is in answering some questions: What big corporates are using perl in web development and how/for what ? Lots. In the last couple of weeks alone I've run across one operating stock exchange heavily built around Perl, and the content management system / e-marketplace hubstorm (www.hubstorm.com) is almost entirely Perl based. Neither are trivial applications, although I don't vouch for how effective they are or if Perl was the right tool to use. As one of the requirements listed was content management you can through in the BBC, especially the interactive telly division. Heck, they even gave a presentation at YAPC::Europe. they even won a BAFTA for some of the stuff they (we) did with perl http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net/pics/greg_bafta_bw.jpeg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: In defence of Perl
* Simon Wilcox ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At 11:48 13/02/2001 +, you wrote: [snip] As one of the requirements listed was content management you can through in the BBC, especially the interactive telly division. Heck, they even gave a presentation at YAPC::Europe. Does anyone know if that presentation is available online anywhere ? i might have it in one of a several 100Mb of wav files awaiting checking and mp3ing however, having been at the presentation i dont think it is what you need -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: VA?
* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 01:24 PM 13.2.2001 +, you wrote: Anyone have an opinion on VA? Virginia's nice but I like Massachusetts better. Too close to both AOL ground zero American political hell ground zero Thpbpfpfpfpfft! Ok, so VA aren't evil incarnate. Anyone want to work with 'em? They're looking for a general purpose Linux gofer to do pre-sales stuff. And Reading Room are still looking for a network/web/sysadmin wookie since the best candidate so far decided to stay put...he knows who he is... wookie = big hairy loud shurely there is an abundance of london mongers who fit this role -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: NY invasion, was Re: Conway Hall
* Paul Mison ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Yeah, 10 +- usual errors (people who didn't know and have changed their minds, people running out of cash, etc, etc). there is even someone saying that they are hoping to get Oven to send them to NY at some stage ;-) Greg (remember Ron and I may be up for the trip once some other variables fall into place) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: London.pm List Weekly Summary 2001-02-05
* Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Leon Brocard wrote: On Thursday, a London.pm Heretic Meeting happened in a lovely pub with a nice warm fire by the Thames. For the uninitiated, a Heretic Meeting happens when the first thursday of the month is the 1st. Heretic meetings thus happen on the 7th, and are ^^^ 8th. (For the summary in four weeks' time :-) london.pm meetings happen on the day after the first wednesday of the month - some misinformed people may have meetings on the 1st of the month occasionally, but what can i say? they are just crazy! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
heretics
for those needing my mobile number to find there way to the heretics meeting tonight, this will not be possible as i have left my phone at home - well done me! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: OT: Buffy (or not OT, depending on your point of view)
* Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Feb 08, 2001 at 11:20:58AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: sounds like someone needs to buy the DVD and see if it comes with a cinema trailer But, where would one buy DVDs? virgin megastores, hmv, wh smith, even woolies has them now the highstreet is a wonderful place ;-) oh and i suppose you could buy them online .. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
No Subject
reminder - heretics meeting tommorow night, email me if you need directions or my mobile number -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re:
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 11:55:39AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: I don't need directinos, but I _have_ forgotten to let you know that... er... my er... friend, yeah, that's it my friend, would like to come along to the meal if you're booking a table. What is your ... err ... friend's name? /me suggests that grep post a map on his website. i havent found one yet - i spose i could do a streetmap ... -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: previous jobs
* Redvers Davies ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dammit, we are *not* third world! Highest rate of child poverty in the developed world. An estimated 40% of the population have no healthcare. where are you talking about Red, Indonesia? Ethyopia? China? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
heretics meeting
"Kids let me tell you about another so-called ``wicked'' guy. He had long hair and some wild ideas. He didn't always do what other people thought was right. And that man's name was ... I forget. But the point is I forget that, too. Marge you know who I'm talking about. He used to drive that blue car?" Homer J. Simpson Episode : Homer the Heretic i've booked a table at the anchor for 12 people on thursday night at 6:30 - its a booked for a meal but we can stay and have a lot of beers afterwards, i'm getting a menu faxed over later if someone can make sure spurkis knows about this - it would be a good thing. the full name of the pub is not the wanchor as people who have worked at FT.com would recognise, but in fact is `the anchor at bankside', its in SE1 very near to London Bridge more info can be found at http://www.cockney.co.uk/anchor.htm i think we might have the table in a private room and the food is reasonable and good, and a good night should be had by all there is also an outside area and if it is above 0 degrees C, we may go out for a quick sorting dance where we measure the cost of the algorithm by having a gulp of beer everytime you are involved in a compare or swap operation (the sorting algorithm will be bubble sort and the list will initially be in reverse order ;-) ) we may be entertaining Davydka Cross, Dave Cross' long lost russian twin brother at the meeting, Dave will of course not be attending this meeting as it would be an act of recognition of the validity of the ``first day after the first wednesday of the month'' aka heretics algorithm for the calculation of london.pm meetings if people mail me off list to let me know if they are coming or not i can increase/decrease the booking size on wednesday Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl Books
* Benjamin Holzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: True, but there aren't many people who will assume that they can perform brain surgery just because they successfully applied a band-aid to a paper cut the week before. www.trepanation.com ;-) [1] Greg [1] i haven't checked the URL so dont blame me if it turns out to be kittie [;-)] porn -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Free T-Shirts
hurrah for the mayhem of foyles! * mallum ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: It seems that Foyles on Tottenham Crt Rd are giving away free orielly shirts. I got a Perl and a Linux one just by asking ( there are loads on some orielly display in there ) and not even purchasing anything. mallum http://10.am/Development/Perl -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: the list
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: It's oh so quiet. After recent activity this is somewhat disconcerting. everyone is probably reading up on ruby in preparation for it taking over the world -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: London Community News 30/01/00
LCN much kudos to Dean for this , it is a fucking wonderful idea -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Video Tips
* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [1]philips 2000 format, years ahead of its time, turn the tapes over like an audio cassette, 8 hours per tape, perfect picture in still frame (due to video head mounted on a piezo slab) earlies 80's tecnology!.. ahhh .. and we got spit vhs instead .. ho hum. don't look at bad technology that becomes the de facto choice as bad technology, look at it as a catalyst to the next generation of technology Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
fspi
i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very nice indeed -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: fspi
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:46:40 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 02:12:01PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: i got a shiny copy of Dave's book in the post on saturday, very nice indeed Where did you get it from so quickly? Direct from Manning? i'm assuming so, i never actually read the compliment slip, but it was sent from the US in some fancy red and white packaging that gave the impression of speedy delivery Probably worth point out that Greg didn't actually order the book. He was sent a free copy by Manning for all the help he gave whilst the book was being written. i think i'll have to go and review it at amazon now i have a paper copy , although the fact i might put in *** THIS IS A GENUINE REVIEW NOT ONE INFLUENCED BY THE PUBLISHER *** at the top and bottom, might not be in the spirit of receiving a free book, so maybe i should avoid that Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:54:26 +, Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the minute i cross the river, i can feel grimness coming upon me AOL/ One of the big plus points for this jobs was that it was on the right (i.e. south) side of the river. Greg (who was surfing for flats in balham this weekend and spotted one on dave's road ;-) ) Do you know what number it was? it doesnt say on the main website and the links down to the fuller detail picture its being let my sheraton law if thats any help just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-) greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
33 mails
how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between when i left work and now? sheesh -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 January 2001 15:34 just think of the sitcom possibilities if i lived above you Dave? heh? heh? ;-) ;-) Bit tricky that. What with us living in a house and all that. We have seagulls on our roof, perhaps grep meant to be building a nest on your chimney ? ok scratch that, the idea for the sitcom is i'm the lodger, dave had to rent out his flat because he needed the cash --- err no, thats a bit too far fetched even for a sitcom -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Meeting Reminder
i'd like to point out that this is an EXCEPTIONAL social meeting of London.pm due to MJD, the real meeting of course will be on the day after the first wednesday of the month * Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: There's a social meeting on Thursday 1st Feb (that's this coming Thursday). It will be in the Barrowboay Banker at the southern end of London Bridge. There's a map on the web site. Mark-Jason Dominus will be joining us and I think that Simon Cozens is thinking of coming along too. Dave... -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: 33 mails
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: grep complained: how the f*** did you lot send 33 mails to this list between when i left work and now? sheesh Practice? We learn quickly, o wise teacher. its ok, i figured out why, some dum-shee (scottish word, ask Dave Can, who got to see my Scotty McClue video one night) asked a question about emacs rc files oh, you should all no, i'm going to be working my arse of the next few days and then finishing with a big presentation on thursday - i then have friday off this coupled with my relative sobrietary during january means we are going to have to go for it big time on thursday night if i can have 2 teams of 3 before tomorow (tuesday) night i'll come up with a drinking game/quiz based around perl/london.pm/computing trivia how about Dave Cross and MJD as team captains? gre[gp] -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Meeting Reminder
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg's obviously started drinking again a couple of days too early. He knows full well that official london.pm social meetings are on the first Thursday of the month. This has _always_ been the case and I have no intention of changing it now. as i said earlier in the month ... *puts hands over ears* la, la, la, i can't hear you , la la la If Greg wants to organise an extra meeting on the 8th for the McCarroll heretics then that's fine by me, but he should probably be giving out some information about the venue at some point soon if he wants anyone to turn up. The Anchor, near London Bridge, 8/1/2001, starting 6.30 ish ;-) (ask me for directions if you dont' know it) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: 33 mails
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Tue, Jan 30, 2001 at 12:23:43AM +, Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: if i can have 2 teams of 3 before tomorow (tuesday) night i'll come up with a drinking game/quiz based around perl/london.pm/computing trivia how about Dave Cross and MJD as team captains? I thought you were planning to save this kind of stuff for the heretics meeting on the 8th. a heretic is not just for the 8th of a month, they are for the whole year anyway, i've got about 10 questions written already , i'm thinking that if a team gets all the answers wrong in a round their penalty is to have to drink .. non alchoholic drinks for the next round! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Video Tips
* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, 28 Jan 2001, you wrote: Here's a top tip. Don't try to video two hours of programs on an hour and a half of video tape. can't you just gzip it? only if its a GNU video recorder -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting Venues
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Doesn't bi-monthly mean every tw months? yes, and if there is any doubt, i recommend looking up ``bi'' on your favourite search engine ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:20:28PM +, Dave Cross wrote: It seems that mail-archive.com have been archiving our list for some time and anyone who knows about mail-archive can find anything posted to our list. I've got no real problem with having my contributions publically archived, the list being open to all anyway. That said I would have liked to have been informed of it when subscribing to the list (or for those of us that have been here for donkeys, when it started getting archived,) just so that I could be sure it was happening. how about if we notified the list everytime someone subscribed or unsubscribed -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]
* Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: this is forwarded from manning and they are offering each pm group a free copy of data munging with perl by dave cross. Hey! Now Dave can have his very own free copy of DMWP! and we can all sign it! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: If no-one objects I will put this in place this weekend. I guess it will result in ~ 10 excess messages a week. with current volumen, this is a drop in the pond -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dave Cross wibbled: The other week I dug out the original comp.lang.perl.misc post. I think I have a recording of someone bashing a stick near a big black rectangle somewhere too... Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so much that they get overloaded and fall over? ;-) they wouldn't fall over if .. they were written using java on a windows platform and using DB2 as the database ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I sez: Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so much that they get overloaded and fall over? ;-) Then grep sez: they wouldn't fall over if .. they were written using java on a windows platform and using DB2 as the database ;-) Depends if the list was is set to munge reply-to or not really, doesn't it. And we know this kind of stuff only happens on the first thurday (not the day after the first wednesday) of the month. i'd love to chat about this, but i've got some goats going over my bridge at 9 -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Robin Houston ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 09:14:08PM +, Leon Brocard wrote: o grow up Hey! No need to get defensive till you lose the vote :-) i vote for no vote, keep things as they are if people object to their views being public, don't post them in what is a public forum - if this is still a problem, then the question should be should london.pm become a private forum, with people being added after a vote - this smells fishy to me ;-) ;-) ;-) [1] personally, the day london.pm becomes a private, invite only forum, i'll be off to london-public.pm's mailing list (this may make london.pm even more popular for those sensitive to signal/noise) - as for google knowing too much about you, welcome too 1984+17 i saw a good post today on abou, someone was complaigning that the older sci-fi books were crap because they were too close to reality (they didn't realise the significance of this and so were flamed, the flame got to abou) grep - i was called this by a non-london.pmer recently [1] you++ to anyone who gets the joke apart from stevem -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I must admit I don;t particularly like the idea of someone else holding this info though .. I mean .. its like 'ours' innit .. but i have no i'm sure you could do something in your sig, along the lines of this email is copyright of robin szemeti , archiving of this email is strictly prohibetted and then call them up/fax them/go sit in their lobby/email them etc. telling them how they shouldnt be doing this better still if everybody did this for just one or two messages a year it would cause chaos muhahahahahahahaha -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailing List Archive
* James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: To make it harder for google to find you - change your name Prince style. good idea! - greg of wales -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
No Subject
is it still 12:30 at the new world today? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Conslutancy
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Andy Wardley wrote: So without wishing to start another holy war, is it possible to change the mailing list configuration to have a more sensible default Reply-to? rant I have arguments with Leon about this. He usually quotes 'Reply To munging considered harmful' (http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html) but as I keep trying to point out to him this document is bollocks. The main statemests it makes are ... i'm ignoring all your points reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all its just the right thing so there
Re: Conslutancy
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll wrote: reply-to having the address of the sender is the right thing, it means when you reply to a message you reply to author of that message, when you reply-all you reply to all No. When you reply-all it replies to the sender *AND* the list. So the sender gets two copies of everything. Which is just fricking irritating *AND* a waste of bandwidth. la la la la *has hands over ears* i cant here you, la la la la Yes I could have a procmail rule to delete duplicate message IDs but some places I work (like here) I can't use procmail. i can and do -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. Really? Why does this not surprise about 10~20 people on this list? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Redvers Davies ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. One of the hotels in London I have had dealings with has conference facilities and over 2000 rooms. I could look up their details should you wish. as long as its not that god awful place above ebookers, near russel square - the name escapes me, but i could well believe it has somewhere approaching 2000 (shit) rooms in both of the wings -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Andrew Bowman wrote: From: "Nathan Torkington" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Timing in London is hard, because there aren't very many hotels capable of supporting such an event. It's quite amazing to us, in fact, how difficult it has been to find a place to hold it in London. What sort of numbers are we talking about then? If you're prepared to consider locations a little out of central London there are lots of large hotels around Heathrow that have sizeable conference type facilities (also handy for the airport!). What about Brighton ;-) potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sat, Jan 20, 2001 at 09:22:07PM -0500, David H. Adler wrote: FWIW, I know my mother has booked some largish meetings outside of London. Of course, I don't remember offhand how large, or, for that matter, what kind of numbers you're looking at. Good point. Sometimes it's hard to remember that there is life outside the M25. Errm ... if you *really* want to have it in the UK, consider manchester and birmingham. Both have international airports, large hotels and conference centres. I expect Edinburgh does too although I'm not sure if there are direct flights to .us - but that's OK, there's no direct flights from .eu to Monterey :-) or better still consider Dublin or Edinburgh -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. go on dave, it cant be that hard Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. Aside from all the inline HTML. ARGH! When will people learn! it got the job done in the first n'th generation? yes? we'll solve that problem in the n+1'th generation of computing and introduce another batch of new ones -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl/MySQL based forums
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: On 21 Jan 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 01:33:09PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Dave Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: No, I'm not going to code a forum package by hand. go on dave, it cant be that hard Having done it a few times, it *isn't* that hard... I'm playing with mwforum right now. Seems OK. Aside from all the inline HTML. ARGH! When will people learn! I was in the process of converting it to TT when i lost a load of my work at oven (forgot to follwo symlinks when I tar gzipped home). I always had that problem until I stuffed everything in CVS :) it's a sign of how we have not moved away from the current computing metaphor to something else - boo to filesystems bring on object storage! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: TPC5
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: potential london clients will be put off dealing with a company not in london I think Location in this day an age is a little irrelivant. The choice will be made on quality of service - not where the office is based. ... and all the clients will be logically thinking young people. with no biases and no predefined stereotypes. they will make sure they pay there bills on time and they will not be trying to fuck you from day 1. unfortunatly any startup company that is not backed with serious capital needs to accept almost every job it can get, and if it cant get most of them due to some middleaged business man's discrimination against it - due to the fact that the office is in brighton, or they don't have an office or they don't wear suits or whatever, it won't survive. i agree with you logically but i see a big difference in reality. The south coast has a very high number of nu media companies - and apparently Worthing is the most profitable town / area in the UK. however, the major (only?) resource that this theoretical company has is people and most of them are london based anyway so anywhere outside the M25 is probably not going to leverage the main resource and the company would be dead from day #1 however on a trivia note, i'd be willing to bet that _the_ city makes the most profit per area in the UK, but thats a trivia point It is often easier to get to some London Locations from Brighton than it is from London. i was thinking about consultancies, and there are really two types and two types of person who want to be create each type. and those two types can be summarised as the two Steves, the question is what are people trying to do - create a Jobs or a Wozniak consultancy? You've lost me there ? ok, ignoring the other figures and concetrating on the two steves ... Woz was an A class engineer and C/D class business guy Jobs was a B class engineer but also a B class business guy and marketeer (bullshitter) if they seperatly formed companys Woz would create the most technically brilliant corporatopia (i just made that up ;-) ), Jobs would make the most money - i'm certainly arguing in this ``debate'' (although that implies too much conflict) that job's way is best others may feel woz's way is best Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: distributed.net
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 11:36:25AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: Dave's new SUPER CHARGED TURBO NUTTER 2001 pc reminded me of the good old days of distributed.net. Is anyone still participating in this? I've just threw some keys at PMU but it appears they are dead in the water along with the rest of us. Is it time we joined up with some team like PMU and had a single Perl team? I've still got the powerbook churning away here. oddly, though, it's been having issues connecting to the server, so I don't get to update that frequently. :-/ Go PMU!!! if you could email me the password to PMU i'd be grateful, also what is the focus of PMU - OGR or RC5? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
y* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 09:05:43PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: Ok, it's trolling a bit, but their main use seems to be where you don't want to bother to do proper nonblocking IO... quick web search They're apparently faster. And make it easier to share data. aside from the whole LWP aspect, i think the main appeal is they are a defined art - unlike the matre'd/minicab controller element of forked process management we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. Greg [1] i'm willing to limit this law to semi-automatic weapons - i'm that reasonable -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: ArsDigita working practices (was: Big Macs v The Naked Chef -- )
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: we really want standardisation of technology interfaces in the industry, and threads go a little towards that - oh and a law that alows be to go around and shooting people who work in IT and i deep unworthy[1]. I do agree with this part. the standardisation on the bloody massacre part? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Hardware Upgrade Fund
* Paul Makepeace ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Building reliability is probably your best aim: does it have a UPS? does it have a RAID 1/0 config? Dual PSUs? Tape drive backup policy? Those things are way more important than a faster chip or RAM. your right of course, however all of those things are more expensive and in some cases involve disgarding existing equipment and at the end of the day its a hobby machine that currently is lucky to have an average CPU usage of 0.1% per hour -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Steve Mynott ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also many hackers have more business sense than their MDs - look at success of projects started by hackers or engineers versus that of those started by MBAs or middle managers.. business sense != project sucess why not? I would have thought similar skills were involved in both? i used to think so, but having seen business ``hackers'' at work i have seen the light. there is a breed of person who is so skilled at hacking the business system/structures especially inter-business arrangements that they have an entirely different skillset looking back at Aaron's post i agree with him on middle management but not wrt good MD's -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Greg Cope ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Thats were a few people have gone wrong lately then ;-) yup -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 10:32:16AM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Fri, Jan 19, 2001 at 09:42:11AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: yes and no. If you need to do an allnighter and its unavoidable (due to a client suddenly changing ther mind) then theres no problem doing it .. just charge em bigtime! nope this is where your pimp/MD should of tied up the contract watertight, so if they change their mind the deadline changes What do you do where this is not the case, other than think about finding a new job? Although, thinking about it, I can also note that the "find a new job" approach seems to work... write a suggestions document of where the project management and management functions are going wrong if they ignore it leave -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
apologies
Apologies one and all, i am not going to be able to make it tonight, today is my first day back at work after some flu like illness. i had hoped to make it tonight but currently feel like matt wrights code, see you all at the next meeting, Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* John ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hmmm, does sound good though. it all depends what you mean, do you mean a proper consultancy or a bunch of people getting together to share accounting/marketting? if its a proper consultancy, you'd have to wear suits, be polite and be in work for 9 in the morning if you were a contractor joining it you could expect a 50%+ pay cut instead of recruiters taking a skim, the running of the company including advertising, management etc. would all eat some of the cash also you'd need to focus it by problem areas not by language having said all of this, if its a later its a good idea -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 January 2001 11:42 What sort of hourly/daily rate does an average PM perl programmer get anyway? Anything from 30 upwards to the sky depending on the client. And the programmer. And the task. Sounds a tad low to me. I've never contracted as a Perl programmer for less than 50/hr. Normally I'd estimate at about 500/day. I'd have thought that if we were selling ourselves as top-notch Perl consultants (Dave H's "getting it right" idea), then it would be more like double that. yes, but if it was a proper consultancy youd be expected to write off some of that occasionally and also maybe have some centralised support of the course the real cash comes from ongoing support contracts -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 02:56:43PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: there is a big question here, do people want to create a small business with a few perl programmers all on largish salaries or do people want to create a proper consulting business aiming to see it grow Both, of course :-) yip, but you have to make a choice -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Leo Lapworth ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: People (no particular order): == = Pimp = = Accountant = == == = = BOFH = = Security Guru = == = === === = Perl Gurus' = = Perl Trainee Gurus = === === i'd add an MD/CEO who would initially do a lot of the pimping, the accountant could initially also be outsourced. the BOFH and Security Guru could be rolled into one. i'd also hire non-Perl programmers so that you didn't just have one leg to the stool Money: Base salary and split proffit according to which category your in. founders split say 50% of the equity, 25% reserved for latecomers and 25% pencilled for VC types contractors could expect to take a 50 to 75% drop in salary Open source / clients: Create projects for open source community (sell to clients with support). When not assigned to a specific money making project or client create next project to OS and make money from. agreed! Create client base with support contracts. also create partner arrangements, i can think of at least 3 big companies i maybe could arrange partnerships with, that in some cases would double the daily rate for consultancy Location snip ;-) have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Consultancy company was [Job] BOFH wanted was: Re: Red Hat worm discovered
* Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 04:42:55PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: have to pay them back with interest and stuff. equity surely? ;-) Yes. But if you're successful the "interest" rate is huge ;) But if you're not, well, they lose the money and not you. FWIW It's much easier to negotiate with VCs if you're already well established and actually have revenue and commitments and stuff well, this is all getting a bit close to the grain for me, if anyone wants to discuss the possibilities of a non-perl specialised arena consultancy feel free to to email me off list, however there may be nasty NDA's involved -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: PIMB T-shirts
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: snip discussion about legal aspects re using a camel smoking a joint on a t-shirt. If these are private individuals selling t-shirts, may I suggest just omitting the word 'perl' from anywhere on the t-shirt. Then O'Reilly's trademark issues don't even come into effect (See page 'iv' of Programming Perl for trademark discussion) and it's really, really got nothing to do with them. besides, ``Icon'' smoking joint has been done to death, hash bang perl is original -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: PIMB T-shirts
* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On a tangentially related point - I've just overheard someone in the office mention the rumour that "Puff, the magic dragon" was "written by someone who was smoking a joint". I guess I'm just surprised that there are people to whom this fact isn't obvious. It's not obvious! I listened to this song over and over again when I was young and at no point did it seem at all drug induced. It's perfectly good childrens song. Down with the conspiracy theories! damn, this fact is in some comedy film --- ah thats right its meet the parents, with Robert De Niro as an ex-CIA guy who is equally surprised at PtMD being about this. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: We're planning a London Open Source Convention. The dates we're looking hard at now are August 20-23. Are there any obvious clashes Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver: http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all on that cruise. all we'd need to do is hire some terrorists to take over the cruise ship and sale it across to london - of course someone should make sure we shoot the cook before the operation starts, oh and fire a couple of rounds into the birthday cake while your at it. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Forwarded : [announce] two new languages (fwd)
havent had a chance ot look at these yet, but they sound like the sort of thing some of you sick^H^H^H^Himaginative people would enjoy - Forwarded message from Jeff Pinyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] - X-Authentication-Warning: mccarroll.demon.co.uk: Host [127.0.0.1] claimed to be localhost Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:57:43 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Pinyan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [announce] two new languages (fwd) Precedence: bulk HQ9 is precious. -- Jeff "japhy" Pinyan [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pobox.com/~japhy/ CPAN - #1 Perl Resource (my id: PINYAN) http://search.cpan.org/ PerlMonks - An Online Perl Community http://www.perlmonks.com/ The Perl Archive - Articles, Forums, etc. http://www.perlarchive.com/ -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:51:01 -0800 From: Brian Raiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [announce] two new languages An enterprising programmer by the name of Cliff Biffle recently sent me email (apparently he found me via my Brainfuck web page) telling me about two new languages he's created, and I thought the list should know about them: 1. Tangle http://www.cliff.biffle.org/tangle/, so called because it is meant to encourage spaghetti-structure; and 2. HQ9+ http://www.cliff.biffle.org/hq.html. In hindsight, I can see that this is a language that has been long overdue in coming. b **Majordomo list services provided by PANIX URL:http://www.panix.com** **To Unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe ny" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]** - End forwarded message - -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM) sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah Greg - who is easily bought -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention
* Mike Wyer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM) sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah Psions are eminently capable of hacking- I use my Ericsson rebadged 5MX as a pocketable terminal emulator at work- plugs straight into a serial port with decent terminal support. Ideal for administering UPSs, remote power control units, and machines with the system administrator shell running on the serial port. the upcoming Nokia communicator, with the colour screen and the EPOC operating system is what i'm waiting for. especially as it can now download other EPOC programs to run on it. very nifty indeed, but i would say that. Greg (disclosure : Greg works for Symbian currently) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: PIMB T-shirts
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: [snip lengthy Puff tMD discussion] Well, for what it's worth, I just called a friend of mine who knew Peter Yarrow while growing up, and although she has never asked him, I have requested that she do so if she speaks to him. dave, getting this settled. ah the joy of 7 degrees of seperation -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Kung Foo and PIMB
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: P.S. PINE may be silly, but the multiple reply option rocks. err *clickity click*, guess what i just discovered mutt could do ;-) * Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: This reminds me of the conversation Case, norm I had after crouching cool name Case - sorry this was just a bad attempt to justify my experimental use of replying to multiple emails -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: OT : DVD
* mallum ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I've seen this in electronics botique on Oxford Street. as in the DVD version to be run on a DVD player? as for it being bad gameplay i don't really care i just want it for historic sake - if i wanted gameplay i'd play NetHack, phear me and my B,Fp,+3 BDSM ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: OT : DVD
* James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: You can't beat marble madness for old arcade games though... and it runs nicely in MAME. apparently its one of the most in demand video game cabinet/controller combo's as the whell broke so much -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Access Control Lists and Functions
* Andy Wardley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Jan 15, 1:50pm, Simon Wistow wrote: Something like that, probably called it Symbol::ACL or summat. I'll stick it in my todo list right after Flash stuff, Mail::Hotmail, Net::IP2LL, Fuky widget set thingy, WMLScript compiler in Perl and learning Japanese. I started learning Japanese when I joined Canon as they were offering free lessons to all research staff. I stopped soon after. I started learning Japanese when the NI administration decided to teach it to joint classes of catholic children and protestant children. Hence it was a good way to meet a brand new batch of girls. I stopped soon after. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Access Control Lists and Functions
* Matthew Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: In my case, Japanese was very much the latter. I have deep respect for anyone who can master it. The only Japanese I know: "Anata no zubon wa taihen kirena desu!" the only japanese i know is - hi, i don't think i've spoke to you before, i'm greg X why thats a lovely name X oh really, what do you think of this japanese class X yes i have exactly the same opinion as you X etc -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Access Control Lists and Functions
* Tony Bowden ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 04:53:57PM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: I started learning Japanese when the NI administration decided to teach it to joint classes of catholic children and protestant children. Hence it was a good way to meet a brand new batch of girls. I stopped soon after. Hey ... I never got opportunities like that! well you had to a particular ``sensitive'' and ``caring'' individual, able to deal with the harsh realities of the ``enforced prejudices'' Was this only out in strange places? Ballymena is not a strange place! But i think it was across N.I. even the more backward places such as Cullybacy, Carnlough and of course Belfast Or just after/before my time? way after your time Tony, way way way after --- just the hip young things like me got this sort of thing (this is my attempt to hang on the every slipping idea that i am still young) anyway back to watching Detroit Rock City Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: PIMB T-shirts
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: "David H. Adler" wrote: Shall I enquire at NY.pm tomorrow about demand? Yup. Might eb up for doing anohter run if necessary. Plus I have some other ideas. Apparently Amsterdam.pm are looking for a design for YAPC::Europe 2001 ;-) however, having said that, still like the # , ! , perl one ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
OT : DVD
Did I hear correctly a rumour recently that you could currently on in the near future get Dragons Lair on DVD. For those of you unfamiliar with it Dragons Lair was a laser disk based game where you only had to hit one or two buttons each scene. I can't see a reason it couldn't be done on DVD somehow. While talking about it, i have a very very old memory of it being the cover story in computer and video game annual or some such -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Mailman in Perl (Re: the list is dead, long live the list)
* Aaron Trevena ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Following the interest in rope/pope, etc perhaps it would be an idea for some of the more perl / oss oriented companies in london (or wherever) to agree to take part in the project on a semi official basis - much of what the work that the london and UK companies do is replicated because of lack of comunications and worry over company secrets and competition. If a handful of london companies can put together a press release saying that they are supporting or backing the project with time, money, services in lieu, etc then it would be a publicity coup and get the ball rolling. the first thing they could offer to do is to host the final rpms/tar.gz's what about the actual mechanics of putting rope together? i'm assuming we'd create a /usr/local/Rope, build the latest stable perl in there, then configure apache for mod_perl etc and install it under there as well, the the other modules. finally is it enough to simply tar.gz /usr/local/Rope and tag it with the architecture details we would probably need some final install program to be run, that would handle the local details of the system - such as what user to run apache as comments? suggestions? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Pubs! (was: RE: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary)
* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Whilst exploring this area at lunchtime I found a pub called the Elusive Camel. I don't know what it's like outside, but further investigation has revealed that there are others in Victoria and Waterloo. Has anyone tried them? Should we investigate further? i drank in the elusive camel on occasion near victoria, its ok, its an office crowd with a wicker chair style deco, i get the feeling however they wouldn't like 20 drunk geeks - not quite cool enough if you know what i mean its the type of pub that turns into some peoples idea of hell when it is office party season -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting Agenda
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: XML::Schema - Andy can we finish this with some sort of SIG meeting on XML::Scheme seeing as its all just ideas in the fevoured mind of Mr Wardley so far, i'm sure there are the usual suspect who'd like to vent their own opinions Hopefully it'll all be over by 9:30 and we can all bugger off to the nearest hostelry. ack, if i'm going to speak i'll have to allow myself a one beer ration -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: the list is dead, long live the list
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote: In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing list manager. So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl? :) previous_comment delivery="gentle" because we are the perl community, all we ever do is talk or if you are lucky work on personal projects /previous_comment -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
XML::Schema, YAPC::Europe, mod_perl, Camel Visit, !RANT!
* David Hodgkinson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: "David H. Adler" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Jan 11, 2001 at 02:07:20PM +, Andy Wardley wrote: In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing list manager. So why haven't you reimplemented it in perl? :) As an XML and perl based application server? don't you go thinking about that Dave, your pencilled in to delivering this mod_perl solutions website you spoke about perviously ;-) it seems to me at the last technical meeting we had a lot of enthusiasm for this, and i'd guess we'll have a lot of enthusiasm for the XML::Schema stuff this time - what we need to do is to form SIG's of london.pm to drive these project forward so as far as i see it - we have the following projects to be carried out by london.pm and others ... Caml (i'll leave that typo as it might get mjd excited) Visit - David Cross Completion of account creation for initial donators, establishment of a administration committee and setting criteria for new donators - Jo + D.Cross The Mod Perl Evangelist Site - Dave Hodge.. The Final YAPC::Europe 2000 Site - me + LB + JP i'm pretty sure that these are the tasks we have at the minute as a group/community time_out ok the above seem's pretty anal but i get the feeling we need to add a bit of `` `` project management '' '' [1] to the group for the benefit of Perl - and this is a subject i'd love to see a thread on /time_out ok yes i know, this is whole mail has probably been purely been caused by my lower alchohol levels for january, but i can't help it - goddamnit i love perl and i love london.pm and i want london.pm to work to help perl -greg [1] double double quotes to indicate how much removed this is from the crap some of us suffer at work -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: the list is dead, long live the list
* Paul Makepeace ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From: "Andy Wardley" [EMAIL PROTECTED] In all fairness, I have to say that mailman is an *excellent* mailing list manager. Yes it is. Majordomo is the wrong choice for the 21st century. Once again I'll offer to run the list on euro.pm.org but if y'all'd rather debate stuff go ahead :-) speaking from a personal opinion its a kind offer Paul, but it really should be run off the london server (currently) penderel.state51.co.uk (thanks state51!) - we've invested in the beatie and it would be a shame to see it not being used for instance i've logged on and seen it with 0% CPU usage, why don't we run at least the distributed net client on it - well the reason is we need organisation of the running of it, jo's deserves a sainthood (or the female version of it) for what she has done so far but we need to organise it properly - anyway see the other mail i sent recently thanks again for the offer! -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl commandments
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Thou shalt optimise for programmer time unless absolutely necessary, Thou shalt optimise for programmer time unless O(x(n)) O(y(n)) and n is what are O(x(n)) and O(y(n)), i'm not familiar with the x and y notation -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl commandments
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Err... Twice as fast is still twice as fast when it's running on a processor that's twice as fast as it would have been. I now can't remember where I read a fascinating piece on the value of more efficient algorithms as computers got faster. But it was worth reading. It was by that guy. Y'know, the guy who wrote that paper. ah, but its half the difference and thats whats important in this context, besides i think we'll all agree we are not talking about magnitudes of difference in this advice -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl commandments
* Peter Corlett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: ok, but it gets more interesting as take into account moores law that reduces the effectiveness of optmisation by halving the improvement of the optimization every year [...] This depends. If you're just doing an optimisation that changes one O(N) algorithm for another, then you're probably better off with the most clear version and wait for Moore's Law to help. Cycle-pinching optimisation doesn't really gain much anyway. [Mind you, I suspect that index and the equivalent regexen may have different O() scores. Discuss.] However, the problem is with programmers that don't really understand algorithms and implement something the "obvious" way, e.g. O(N^2) instead of O(NlogN) then this is not going to help when you attempt to scale your website or whatever to a million users instead of a test set of five. the best way to do this, if you see something is N^2 is to figure out how you could do it with a sort and hey presto it usually can be turned into NlogN+N .. NlogN -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl commandments
* Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Greg McCarroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
* Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Tue, Jan 09, 2001 at 11:25:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote:
6.) regular expressions are not the only way to code, length and
substr are in the language for a reason
Also index. These two snippets are equivalent:
if($foo=~/foo/) { ... }
if(index($foo, 'foo')!=-1) { ... }
I always want to do just plain if(index(...)) though.
ISTR that (for weird reasons), the regex version of that is faster.
but of course we don't (shouldn't) program perl for program time
optimization but for programmer time optimization ;-)
So the regex wins on all counts then. Faster, clearer, shorter, easier
to maintain. The list goes on.
nope daves was a bad example
--
Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Perl 6
* Nathan Torkington ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: We're going to use RFCs for future additions to Perl, we just need to find some good filters that will prevent them from consuming everyone's time. how about adding a field on the RFC template such as, ``forum initially discussed in'' - then encourage people that before they submit an RFC they should of had it discussed in an open forum such as P5P, #perl or even their local (or favourite) Perl monger list. this has the ( devious ) side effect of gently spamming some people about issues for Perl 6 hence getting more pairs of eyeballs on the development and design of the beastie Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Forthcoming Meetings - Summary
* Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: dcross - David Cross wrote: If I don't hear any objections by the end of tomorrow, I'm going to appoint Simon as official pub organiser and suggest we try the BBB for the Feb meeting (the McCarroll heretics can, of course, have their meeting the following week wherever they want). I'm not particularly keen on going to London Bridge. I come from Slough and this will reduce my drinking time by at least half and hour I'd estimate :( I also usually combine my trip into That London with a visit to the PC Bookshop in Sicilian Avenue or Virgin Megastore on TCR, both walking distance. I'll submit to the popular vote of course, though a central London pub would be easier if we have to change. Why don't people like the PO? have we ever tried reservin tables in PO? -- Robert -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: German Perl Workshop
* Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll wrote: oh well i've just got another 4.5 days (ish) of drinking left before its dry january - apart from time during the month of january spent abroad or places i can claim are abroad Ah, so you'll be spending a lot of time in consulates, then? well i decided that the east india club was foreign enough to count -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: German Perl Workshop
* Matthew Jones ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Grep: right who put the Grep in? own up! is Edinburgh foreign? ;-) Well, when we declare the independence of the PRoWY, you'll be welcome up for some of our dirt cheap, CAMRA-approved ale. You could even nominate someone to be first against the wall. All the *.pm groups up here have Marie-Celeste websites. Has there been a pogrom in the North? is a pogrom something that brings grimness to a region? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: one liner
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Mon, Jan 08, 2001 at 08:25:54AM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote: Michael Stevens writes: I'm sure there are reasonable number of online manuals we'd all like printed copies of. Yeah, but if O'Reilly were to print them, you'd complain that the book was nothing more than the online manual :-) Yes, but that's because you have such a good reputation for delivering *more* than the online manual! yip they have the pretty cover animals as well ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Book is out!
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:27:46PM +, David Cantrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sun, Jan 07, 2001 at 08:16:27PM +, Dave Cross wrote: ... they've opened the Author Online forum for you all to embarass me with difficult questions. " Dave, is it true that as well as munging data, this book will teach me how to munge perldoc into printed books? " DUCK COVER Laugh? I thought I'd never start... sounds like its time to dust my DBI book off and warm up the old scanner ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: copious free time
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Fri, Jan 05, 2001 at 03:25:02PM +, Neil Ford wrote: I'd re-launch Surrey.pm and hold meetings in Guildford if I thought there'd be anyone there but me... :-(= Nat and I would probably come... but then I suspect the conversation wouldn't stay on the subject of Perl for very long... advantage being we could always hold them outdoors in the summer :-) You people talk about *perl*??? What kind of perl mongers group *are* you??? hey! at least we can arrange the meeting place/date in less than a thousand posts ;-) -greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
one liner
Ok, we are not (void) but we are pretty close so here is a one liner that hopefully will provote discussion the only thing that gives potential for the marketing of a language is the projects that are achieved using it and java has a hell of a lot more cool projects than perl /me is thinking of a new london.pm project called ``ignore the perl 6 body and parallel to it lets create our own perl propoganda/marketting/best practice/for the good fo the language movement'' -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: FOOD
* Alex Page ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 02:55:09PM -0500, David H. Adler wrote: I drink badly too. I'm sorry, but that parsing of Jonathan's comment indicates that he *needs* badly. His drinking skills are indeterminate at this point. Erm, how does one need badly? "God, I need a cigarette." "Here you go, you can scab one of mine." "No thanks, I'm fine." Alex, stalking dha around the 'net dha : Say, whats up Doc? alex : be verry verry quiet, i'm hunting adlers dha : Adlers you say, how can you spot them? alex : well they know too much about monty python dha : you mean things like ``the how to recognise body parts'' sketch from series 2 took 18 takes, as palin and cleese couldn't stop laughing at each other alex : yeah thats right, say .. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: not-paranoia
ill stick more details about this here http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net/ including a method for generating a character * Greg McCarroll ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: there has been some talk, of playing a one off (ish) rpg, the night is probably next thursday night and the game is open to all london.pm'ers (even if they have been to less than 3 meetings this year ;-) ) the game is likely to use the original traveller rules but be set in a cyberpunk/1984 world from my feevered mind, min. players is 3 maximum players i 8, and the game will be held in sydenham alchohol will be kept to a minimal level ;-) (because i'm the BGMFH) if people could mail me offlist if they are interested, alternatively we can create yet another non-perl related thread here greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting
* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: As always I'm looking for volunteers to speak at the meeting. If you've got anything really cool[1] to tell us about then please let me know. i can do 20 minutes on SOAP (not 20 mins squeezed into 5) ;-) -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Technical Meeting
* Piers Cawley ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I want to see someone do a lightning talk on musical interpretations of common Compsci algorithms. i could clean up Devel::MIDI if you really waned Piers -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
lack of sleep, insanity and you rotten mongers
i was just reading comp.unix.programmer and saw GREP and thought who's talking about me, this is all your fault! greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Books
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 04, 2001 at 01:59:05PM +, David Hodgkinson wrote: er, what's wrong with foyles if it's not a silly question? Insane filing system Legendarily unhelpful staff It smells funny I spent several minutes once trying to teach one of the staff in their computing section how to spell the word 'silicon'. So he could put it into their computer and find the book I wanted, for which I knew both title and author. That was Sili of you -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 3 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: check beano's in croydon, they can be quite good - also skoob do some rare tapes (in sicillian ave, next to pc bookshop) Wow, Beano's still there ? Its been there since I was a kid. good place as well, one of the many delights of Croydon Did you know Terry and June was set in Croydon? see you don't have to go to the comedy store for good comedy! nope croydon does just as well - also i think davidson sometimes does his panto at the fairfield i'd need to check, does anyone know? anyone? anyone? dean? ;-) [1] Greg [1] sorry dean, i couldnt resist -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Fwd: SPUG: ActivePerl 623
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Greg McCarroll wrote: next youll be saying top gun is considered bad Top Gun is a top film (no pun intended) and Quentin Tarantino is a jumped up little pissant wannabe with 'I wanna be a cool gang-sta but I'm actually a white geek with bad hair who can't act' issues. i agree, its a class film, and i wasnt being sarcastic in any way at all i was watching it with a dutch friend recently (4am) and we were really really drunk, i mean like a whole different league on from the worst london.pm meeting - do you remember the guys Gellyfish got slaughtered at YAPC::Europe? well they looked sober to us, anyway the point is i seem to remember calling his ex-girlfriend on his nokia communicator in loud speaker mode and singing the song down it as loudly as possible then doing the same 10 minutes later after he had tried to teach me the words in dutch then at the power guitar bit at the end singing that down the phone it was about then his flatmate came through to complaign And all the quotes from his monologue[0] which claim that TG is actually one huge homoerotic fantasy are wrong which just goes to show how bullshit it all is. unlike ``Top C*ck'' the 1992 american soft pr0n film, where young men from around the world come together to compete at the Top Stud academy training to be the finest studs in the world. Just before the completion of their training my the hot blonde bombshell Nelly McMuffins they are alerted of an arab warlords harem is on the radar and are flew out to use their new knowledge. - err actually i just made this up - err, making that sort of thing up is probably worse that watching it i'll get my coat ... -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: irc again
* Michael Stevens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 11:49:58AM +, Aaron Trevena wrote: erm.. whats the irc channel for london.pm again. I spose I'll have to download bitchx as well now. irc.rhizomatic.net #london.pm london.rhizomatic.net -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
