Re: Beginners Guide
* at 21/04 10:14 +0100 Robin Szemeti said: On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, you wrote: I read it as not wanting to fund the various commercial entities one ends up funding in order to actual get a digital box. The idea of putting any more money in the Murdoch empires coffers just for the sake of getting News 24 and BBC Choice certainly doesn't appeal. ahh .. re read yes .. that would be another interpretation ... but, again, it certainly used to be the case and AFAIK it still is that you can get ( it might be 3 quid or something $ trivial to cover the cost of hte card) a BBC only card that is free on production of your TV licence. I know Murdoch et al were not very keen on the idea and try and tell you it 'cant be done' etc but ISTR the DTI telling em to just shut up and do it. and almost as if in answer to this i noticed a great many ads for digital tv wjile vegging in front of smtv on saturday that made much of the fact that you bought it and itv2 was free, free, free! as it also showed tvs with news24 etc i imagine all your favourite bbc digital channels are also free. struan
Re: Beginners Guide
On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, you wrote: I read it as not wanting to fund the various commercial entities one ends up funding in order to actual get a digital box. The idea of putting any more money in the Murdoch empires coffers just for the sake of getting News 24 and BBC Choice certainly doesn't appeal. ahh .. re read yes .. that would be another interpretation ... but, again, it certainly used to be the case and AFAIK it still is that you can get ( it might be 3 quid or something $ trivial to cover the cost of hte card) a BBC only card that is free on production of your TV licence. I know Murdoch et al were not very keen on the idea and try and tell you it 'cant be done' etc but ISTR the DTI telling em to just shut up and do it. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: BBC was Re: Beginners Guide
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: ObLon.pm: A buffy DW crossover would be cool... In fact: http://members.iglou.com/scarfman/dwxst.htm Buffy as the Doctor's assistant, now that would rock. Picture it some shambling monster is coming down the corridor, Buffy and the Doctor are stopped a large metal door. D One second my dear, i'll have this open. *The doctor hunts around in many pockets for his sonic screwdriver, taking out bits of string and packets of jellybabies as he does.* B Hurry Doctor! D Yes yes, one moment here it is! M g, *shamble* *the doctor starts to examine the lock and mutters all the time* B Hurry! D Please quiet, this is very delicate, hmmm ... aha i think i know *Buffy loses it, pulls down the doctor aside, kicks the door down and goes to run with the doctor out, but suddenly stops, turns around and proceeds to beat up the shambling mound* D What? What? B Don't mention it, you can make it up to me by taking me shopping - there is simply oodles of closet space to fill in the tardis. -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Beginners Guide
On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:49:09PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't have a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped out in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned off. Is that relevant? :-) Dunno, but I sure hope the digital packages get a bit better than the current offerings otherwise I'll just switch off the telly and not turn it on again... -Dom (resents paying once for the license fee and again for the subscription)
Re: Beginners Guide
From: "Dominic Mitchell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, Apr 18, 2001 at 09:49:09PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't have a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped out in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned off. Is that relevant? :-) Dunno, but I sure hope the digital packages get a bit better than the current offerings otherwise I'll just switch off the telly and not turn it on again... -Dom (resents paying once for the license fee and again for the subscription) Hmm. I too am pissed off about this digital stuff, as the quality is worse than analogue TV. My measure of quality is uninterrupted viewing. I have yet to watch any digital TV where at some point the picture didn't pixelate or completely blank for a few seconds. I have an excellent Sony 100Hz TV, and cannot fault the picture. Why are we being forced down this digital route? Money I expect. But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's criminal. /Robert [thinking maybe he should have taken this to (void)]
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Robert Shiels wrote: Hmm. I too am pissed off about this digital stuff, as the quality is worse than analogue TV. My measure of quality is uninterrupted viewing. I have yet to watch any digital TV where at some point the picture didn't pixelate or completely blank for a few seconds. I have an excellent Sony 100Hz TV, and cannot fault the picture. Why are we being forced down this digital route? Money I expect. Why else? Basically, it's a bit like the G3 phones, although we haven't heard so much about the investment phase. Some companies poured huge amounts of money into the research to do digital streaming (and various forms of compression[1]. Now they want their investment back, but noone will buy DigitalTV [2][3] unless they have no alternative. So they've asked the government to make sure that there is no alternative. [1] Of course compression/error-correcting pick one, hence the pixellation etc. [2] Whatever standard [3] We aren't the US, and they misread the market. A large number of British people are quite happy with the small number of channels, because they appreciate that larger number of channels just means that the good stuff is spread even more thinly. But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's criminal. Why? The digital TV is a one-off cost. The license is on-going. The revenue from the digital TV/reciever doesn't go to the beeb. Personally I don't mind funding the beeb, as long as the quality of content they produce is high. I do object to funding random corporations whose interests are to their shareholders... /Robert [thinking maybe he should have taken this to (void)] No, it's "on-topic" for london.pm. :) MBM -- Matthew Byng-Maddick Home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20 8980 5714 (Home) http://colondot.net/ Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 7956 613942 (Mobile) Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups -- alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. -- Alex Levine
Re: Beginners Guide
* Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hmm. I too am pissed off about this digital stuff, as the quality is worse than analogue TV. My measure of quality is uninterrupted viewing. I have yet to watch any digital TV where at some point the picture didn't pixelate or completely blank for a few seconds. I have an excellent Sony 100Hz TV, and cannot fault the picture. Why are we being forced down this digital route? Money I expect. digital tv takes less bandwidth But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's criminal. it is -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Beginners Guide
- Original Message - From: "Matthew Byng-Maddick" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personally I don't mind funding the beeb, as long as the quality of content they produce is high. I do object to funding random corporations whose interests are to their shareholders... Sorry, I don't mind funding the BBC either, I think I get very good value for money at the moment, it's worth it for Radio4 alone. What I object to is paying twice, which is what would be happening if I paid a monthly subscription to see the digital BBC channels that nobody actually wants[1]. I am annoyed that I am now paying for this digital stuff indirectly, and I can't watch it. I'm going to go to the BBC website and gripe some more about this :-) /Robert [1]troll
Re: Beginners Guide
* Robert Shiels ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From: "Greg McCarroll" [EMAIL PROTECTED] But if you get a digital TV/receiver, surely BBC is available for free without any subscriptions. If this is not the case then I think it's criminal. it is I can read that two ways, do you mean it is free, or it is criminal. sorry, it is free if I'm being dim. I think you mean that it is free. So I need a digital receiver, like those ondigital things, and that's all. Wonder how much they cost. hard to say they are normally given free if you subscribe to one premier channel -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:06:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: hard to say [BBC channels] are normally given free if you subscribe to one premier channel If your telly has a built-in digital decoder, then the BBC channels will be free, and you won't need cable or a satellite dish. IANABBCE and IANADTVE -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete ** I read encrypted mail first, so encrypt if your message is important **
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:33:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote: On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 12:06:02PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: hard to say [BBC channels] are normally given free if you subscribe to one premier channel If your telly has a built-in digital decoder, then the BBC channels will be free, and you won't need cable or a satellite dish. IANABBCE and IANADTVE but possibly not by the time the whole UK has gone digital Don't be suprised if by then the abolishment of the licence fee hasn't been announced and that the BBC hasn't announced subscription charges for it's services. Better that than the Beeb starts carrying ads. The BBC are definitely working towards the licence fee being withdrawn at some point by some government (hence all the curfuffle over ads on bbc.com), so alternative forms of financing will need to be sort. The above is of course conjecture on my part (I'm not Greg Dyke) but is based on knowledge gained during the BBC's recent acquisition of certain assets of a certain dot.com. :-) How this would work with radio I have no idea. Neil.
Re: BBC was Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, you wrote: Neil Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't be suprised if by then the abolishment of the licence fee hasn't been announced and that the BBC hasn't announced subscription charges for it's services. Better that than the Beeb starts carrying ads. Politically the BBC has been lucky with its licence fee. There was some discussion about abolishing it in the early 1980s under Thatcher but its been off the political agenda since then. The election of Labour must have been a relief for them. umm ... thats not quite true. The BBC has had quite a hard time of it over the last few years. In order to have its charter renewed in 199X it had to undergo a series of reforms that basically tore the guts out of it. The sale of it transmision facilities and the moving of all its 'hardware' to BBC Resources Ltd are all as a result of that process. Over the last 10 years its been a constant battle to try and maintain the service. Every licence fee review (and they happen more often than you might think) seems to involve more reforms being demanded from government in order to approve this years fees. The licence fee has been subject to modest rises basically either in line or slightly behind inflation. In an arena where the cost of broadcasting is actually increasing at a rate somewhat above inflation this leaves an ever increasing gap in the finances. This, coupled with a legal requirement to have 25% of its programmes produced by external companies (who typically cost 20% more than producing the same programme in house) place further stresses on the budgets, leaving little money for in house productions. I think it likely that the licence fee will go. It would be a popular move with the Great Unwashed. ( who seem happy to spend 400 quid a year on a Sky subscription ), so I can see the BBC being released from its licence fee. This would have huge knock-ons in the commercial TV world. The advertising cake is only so big, if the BBC suddenly started taking adverts then I doubt many of the commercial stations would appreciate the 50% drop in revenue. Assuming the BBC could decure 50% of the current TV advertising cake they would be significantly better off than they are now. Personally I would rather pay a licence fee and have a (largely) independent public service broadcaster than yet another commercial station that can't say various things in case it upsets a major advertiser. YMMV Several areas of the BBC have been split off into 'wholly owned, self financing subsidiaries' that can compete against other players in the market. this is not hugely popular with other players in the market, but you can expect to see it start to flex its muscles a little more over the next few years. -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: BBC was Re: Beginners Guide
Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it likely that the licence fee will go. It would be a popular move with the Great Unwashed. ( who seem happy to spend 400 quid a year on a Sky subscription ), so I can see the BBC being released from its licence fee. This would have huge knock-ons in the commercial TV world. The advertising cake is only so big, if the BBC suddenly started taking adverts then I doubt many of the commercial stations would appreciate the 50% drop in revenue. Assuming the BBC could decure 50% of the current TV advertising cake they would be significantly better off than they are now. Personally I would rather pay a licence fee and have a (largely) independent public service broadcaster than yet another commercial station that can't say various things in case it upsets a major advertiser. YMMV I'd be happy to pay a 400/year voluntary sub for a BBC with no adverts during programs. I'd probably be prepared to put up with adverts between programs a la FilmFour. But if they ever start running ads on Radio 4 then they can whistle for my money. But for that they're going to have to stop producing so much crap. I want more stuff of the quality of Clocking Off and Walk On By, and less of the vets in kitchens making your home look horrible cheap shit. -- Piers, who can't remember the last time he watched anything on ITV.
Re: BBC was Re: Beginners Guide
* David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Make them start producing Doctor Who again, while you're at it... If they do start doing Doctor Who again it will have a finite lifespan, is he not near the maximum number or lives a timelord can regenerate? -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
Re: BBC was Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 07:31:59PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * David H. Adler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Make them start producing Doctor Who again, while you're at it... If they do start doing Doctor Who again it will have a finite lifespan, is he not near the maximum number or lives a timelord can regenerate? Nah. He's only up to his 8th incarnation. he's got 13. Also, depending on how you look at things, he may be a special case. [note: this does not take the comic relief special as canon...] dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Well (s)he is only a type of deer after all so its particularly spectacular to have learnt English from only 'A Stranger in a Strange Land' and 'A Clockwork Orange' - Jonathan Stowe in c.l.p.misc (It was even better *in* context... :-)
Re: Beginners Guide
On Thu, Apr 19, 2001 at 11:34:02AM +0100, Robert Shiels wrote: - Original Message - From: "Matthew Byng-Maddick" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personally I don't mind funding the beeb, as long as the quality of content they produce is high. I do object to funding random corporations whose interests are to their shareholders... Sorry, I don't mind funding the BBC either, I think I get very good value for money at the moment, it's worth it for Radio4 alone. What I object to is paying twice, which is what would be happening if I paid a monthly subscription to see the digital BBC channels that nobody actually wants[1]. Hear, Hear! I don't mind funding the BBC either, but I won't pay for a TV license when I don't have a TV: **BRING BACK THE RADIO LICENSE** I am annoyed that I am now paying for this digital stuff indirectly, and I can't watch it. I'm going to go to the BBC website and gripe some more about this :-) Of course when Demon Internet finally sort out my Premier Connect Plus subscription I'll go to the BBC website and listen to Radio4 for free and feel even more guilty. Actually I'll probably listen to www.todayfm.ie: 17:00-19:00 "Last Word" with Eamon Dunfy? giving politicans a hard time, then at 19:00 to 22:00 "Pet Sounds" with Neil Dunn and 22:00 onwards "Into the Night". (or on Sunday nights "Dad Rock" - sounds of the '70s :-) -- Chris Benson -- waiting for the next round of letters accusing me of criminality because I don't have a TV license. If anyone else is interested the directors of Envision Licensing Limited t/a TVLA are: Nigel Howlett, Ms Kim Lambert, Jonathan Evans. John Jack is the Chairman. The registered address is Hardwick House, Prospect Place, Swindon, SN1 3LJ. I was planning to ask them all to prove that they were not paedophiles, but the SO suggests this may be too outrageous and therefore ignored, so I think I will instead offer them a buffet from: /(paedophilia|(income |corporation )?tax fraud|software theft|patent infringement)/ This suggests to me that I should report the FAST to BSA for software license fraud and vice versa! Wow, do you think I should patent that idea?? Or maybe I should stop drinking.
Re: Beginners Guide
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 08:33:29PM +0100, Chris Benson wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:52:57AM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35 on Friday night/Saturday morning. umm .. would now be a good time to point out I don't have a television? I assume everyone (that's interested) knows about 'Ask Buffy' at http://www.securityportal.com/buffy/ By Buffy Overflow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) And there was me thinking that Chris was going to say that he doesn't have a TV either. But he didn't. I don't have a TV. But I'm currently camped out in my parents house, and they have 2. But I learn that they will both be obsolete in 5 years when we all the analogue TV transmitters are turned off. Is that relevant? :-) Nicholas Clark
Beginners Guide
I'm painfully aware that not everyone on this list has the same amount of experience and knowledge and that therefore some discussions may well go over the head of some of the newbies. It's therefore nice to be able to find ways to help out beginners. For that reason, I'm happy to point out the the BBC are starting to repeat Buffy the Vampire Slayer right from the start. The very first episode will be shown this coming Thursday on BBC2 at 18:45. If you're going to be at the technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35 on Friday night/Saturday morning. After this run, we'll be able to assume that everyone has at least a rudimentary grasp of the basics which should make discussions much easier. Cheers, Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please re-send this communication to the sender and delete the original message or any copy of it from your computer system.
Re: Beginners Guide
On Tue, 17 Apr 2001, you wrote: I'm painfully aware that not everyone on this list has the same amount of experience and knowledge and that therefore some discussions may well go over the head of some of the newbies. It's therefore nice to be able to find ways to help out beginners. uh huh ... For that reason, I'm happy to point out the the BBC are starting to repeat Buffy the Vampire Slayer right from the start. The very first episode will be shown this coming Thursday on BBC2 at 18:45. If you're going to be at the technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35 on Friday night/Saturday morning. umm .. would now be a good time to point out I don't have a television? After this run, we'll be able to assume that everyone has at least a rudimentary grasp of the basics which should make discussions much easier. Any chance you could transcribe the important bits for us. (if as I suspect, the important bits are umm .. errr .. 'soft and fleshy' please attach jpegs) -- Robin Szemeti The box said "requires windows 95 or better" So I installed Linux!
Re: Beginners Guide
On Tue, Apr 17, 2001 at 10:41:46AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote: I'm painfully aware that not everyone on this list has the same amount of experience and knowledge and that therefore some discussions may well go over the head of some of the newbies. It's therefore nice to be able to find ways to help out beginners. I thought this was going to lead to something completly different... Silly me ;) Any chance you could transcribe the important bits for us. (if as I suspect, the important bits are umm .. errr .. 'soft and fleshy' please attach jpegs) You asked for this ;) http://www.psyche.kn-bremen.de/ And its more upto date than BBC2! Dean -- Profanity is the one language all programmers understand --- Anon
Re: Beginners Guide
* Robin Szemeti ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: technical meeting then you can either video it or watch the repeat on 00:35 on Friday night/Saturday morning. umm .. would now be a good time to point out I don't have a television? scripts are available on the web - there is no excuse for not establishing a basic knowledge of BtVS! now theres a good idea for our next London.pm social meeting London.pm presents Buffy the Vampire Slayer --- The Theatre experience! now if we only had some people who could simulate the bazooka explosion ;-) Greg -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net
